Jobs With out a SSN #

[error]

i don't know what we are going to do after December when our pay it off each month card goes RFID.

X-Acto knife.

[cathleeninnh]

Oh, I could snip the card and still use the account online, but then I would be "another satisfied user of RFID technology".

Cathleen

[error]

Why you DON'T want a card with RFID in it.

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/23/business/23card.html?ex=1319256000&en=76401b1601fc06e3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

[Dreepa]

Lloyd.... NH has that law as well. (recent law).

Also I did some checking recently.
If a child does NOT have an SSN then the child can NOT be claimed as a dependent on your 1040 IRS form.
(I know many people here don't file.. just wanted to point it out).

[Russell Kanning]

oh yea ... they want that number

someone can claim me as a dependant on this years return with my old number ... I won't be using it.

[Tom Sawyer]

Our other son 'little Russell'... he is a handful.

[Russell Kanning]

if they complain about my age .... say that I need 24 supervision.

[coffeeseven]

Got the DL with no problem just by reciting the number, so apparently the government refuses to recognize cancellation in any form.

The larger points that I should have made are these:

1.The contention has been that if there is no law compelling you to have or keep a social security number, then it must be a contract. All contracts can be canceled, broken, etc.

If the government cannot cite the law that compels, and refuses to recognize cancellation, it would appear that we are in the area of "other". We now have a precedent.

My statements were not meant to be as much confession, as education. I believe the social security number, and the social security system as a whole to be illegal on it's face.

2. Don't waste your time and (gobs of) money trying to cancel that which cannot be canceled. It's been an expensive lesson for me. Just refuse to use the number. I did the cancellation the "right way". It was totally unnecessary. I will never again recite the number, nor will I indoctrinate my children.

I know I'm round-a-bout making my points. Thanks for your patience.

[ninetales1234]

Right now my priority is getting a job and buying a car and getting my own place.  I want a job that I don't have to provide my SSN, take a damn drug test

Some employers don't necessarily ask their potential employees to take a drug test because they don't want employees who break the law. Some have perfectly rational reasons for not wanting employees who take recreational drugs.

Keep on fighting for freedom. I myself was tricked into this silly SS system 7 years ago. I hope to dissasociate myself from the evil number when (and if) I move to NH.

[PowerPenguin]

Avatar I think there could be a market for transporting stuff to the Boston area from Nashua NH.   Prices in Nashua are almost as cheap as Dallas, but Boston area prices, just 40 mi. away, are about 50% higher than Nashua.   Also there is no sales tax in NH of course so you'd save them another 5% that way. 

you coul charge 10% markup and save them boo koo money,

Great idea, Dada! This could be productive if done right and with the proper targeted marketing. They do this kind of thing in various parts of the EU all the time these days. BTW, if anyone has any questions about private banking, nomineeing, etc, please see http://mpassetprotection.com/ or PM me.

[Crocuta]

Some employers don't necessarily ask their potential employees to take a drug test because they don't want employees who break the law. Some have perfectly rational reasons for not wanting employees who take recreational drugs.

Like nursing.  I'll never find a nursing position where a drug screen isn't mandatory because I work with narcotics all day long.  Drug diversion by nurses is still a big problem.  They like to be sure that someone who will have easy access to all the narcs they want isn't dealing with an amphetamine habit.

[jaqeboy]

An important place to start to get an understanding of the SS system is at the SSA's history page:

http://ssa.gov/history/index.html,

especially their chronology, which everyone should read:

http://ssa.gov/history/chrono.html.

It's an important history of socialism ("social insurance").

Jack

[jaqeboy]

There was an organization called National Organization for Non-Enumeration (NONE), but they're probably inactive now - they were at http://www.noneusa.org. I met with their founder, Ken Potter and had extensive discussions with him. I have some of their publications and will be placing them in the Renaissance Reading Room when that opens. I could possibly scan some of them in and post them somewhere for all to see.

NONE published the procedure for getting a job without an SSN or a bank account, the 2 main areas where the SSN is "requested", though not "required." This is an important distinction - the law and regs require the employer and banker to "request" the number, but since you are not legally "required" to have one, they can't require you to do the impossible, ie, produce something which you do not have. Treasury, therefore, has a procedure (described in the regs) if the bank has met the "request" requirement and you do not produce one - usually involves them sending in an affidavit stating that they did "request" it. This was all before the USA PATRIOT act, though.

USA PATRIOT requires the Treasury Dept. to promulgate regs and the regs they did promulgate required their agents, the banks, to institute CIP's, or customer identification programs, which usually then required the SSN. There may still be a way, though, if someone wants to pursue this. You have to have your background research done first and then be very persistent.

It might take a few weeks to get the account opened, since you'll have to work your way up from the junior officer to the branch manager to the higher corporate levels and usually over to their legal office before you'll get the word pushed back down to the branch that it's OK (usually to just open a non-interest bearing acct).

NONE claims that they had broken in a Nashua bank, Granite Bank, which has now been bought up by Ocean Bank. This might be the thing to do again - go to one bank and have several people apply and persist and work it all the way through to the top and back down again until the branch manager understands the proper procedure and the law.

A complaint can be taken to the New Hampshire Human Rights Commission and possibly to a federal agency if you are denied something because of your religious beliefs and practices (if your beliefs prevent you from being numbered, for example). Federeal fines are in the neighborhood of $10,000 (per occurrence?) on the institution commiting the civil rights violation of discriminating against someone because of their creed (religion).

Jack

[jaqeboy]

Something to review regarding SSN and religious belief is the famous Amish case, Valentine Byler vs. the IRS. They are exempted because they do have a plan for taking care of their elderly. History of the case is at:

http://www.amishnews.com/amisharticles/amishss.htm

I'm not sure about the Native American Indians. They got the crap kicked out of them so badly by the US Army and then the Bur. of Indian Affairs that I'm not sure if they have tried to fight this one. I know there was a case (which I have here somewhere) where the NA claimed that his baby daughter shouldn't have an SSN because of beliefs, but he and his wife did have #'s and they were requesting state welfare. The state required the kid to have a # before they could pay out benefits and the court agreed that it was a reasonable record-keeping requirement (in order to cross-check with federal records).

A very important point is that you should not be requesting or receiving any federal benefit whatsoever, or ever plan to request or receive one for the rest of your life if you want to be exempted from having a SSN. (Which is the reason we should be developing alternative institutions for our community - please attend our session on Personal Freedom Alternatives, 4PM, Sat. 24Feb07 at the NH Liberty Forum in Concord, N.H. to hear of some alternatives - sales pitch).

Jack

PS: don't mean to overwhelm, but just dumping my data on the topic in hopes that it will be helpful.

[jaqeboy]

Western Union has a pre-paid debit card and, of course, have locations everywhere - fairly high fees to re-charge your card and for other transactions. They have a higher card limit than the gift cards. Last time I checked, they also "asked for" the SSN. You can google Prepaid Debit Card and find oodles of them -  http://www.google.com/search?q=Prepaid+debit+card&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a.

Jack