So claims former cop Fred Parsells.
It probably wouldn't be a very popular instance of civil disobedience, but perhaps we can have the president serve a beer to someone underage (better yet, several underagers), they drink some of it, get behind the wheel, and drive somewhere.
The cops may be able to ignore a puppet show and public gambling, but they are supposedly mandated to make an arrest on underage drinking and driving. I am awaiting confirmation on this.
Are you volunteering the president to get thrown in jail?
If the president wants to serve someone a beer, I can't stop him. :icon_pirat:
Sounds like a ploy by the ever conniving fascist scumbag Parsells to goad us into taking actions that would ruin our credibility with the public.
I'm all for civil disobedience that makes people actually stop and think about the issues. Promoting underage drinking and driving would only precipitate a severe public backlash, and permanently close peoples' minds to our message.
...at least, that's what I would envision :dontknow:
That would be an evil dream come true for Fred Parsells.
Quote from: srqrebel on April 21, 2008, 12:36 PM NHFT
Sounds like a ploy by the ever conniving fascist scumbag Parsells to goad us into taking actions that would ruin our credibility with the public.
I'm all for civil disobedience that makes people actually stop and think about the issues. Promoting underage drinking and driving would only precipitate a severe public backlash, and permanently close peoples' minds to our message.
...at least, that's what I would envision :dontknow:
That would be an evil dream come true for Fred Parsells.
Good point
What's wrong with a little drinking and driving? There's no danger there.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2008, 12:48 PM NHFT
What's wrong with a little drinking and driving? There's no danger there.
Right, but once you've been pinched--the danger sets in. For instance, $4500 (lawyer plus fine)-12mo probation-alcohol treatment that you gotta pay for-8 days on the work (slave) program-4 to 6 pts on driving record (which will affect applying for certain jobs). That's Mich of course, but I'm sure Nh has some similar BS. Like you say Ian, Caveat Emptor or in this case--driver beware ;D
Me not like this idea.
What about just underage drinking and no driving?
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2008, 12:48 PM NHFT
What's wrong with a little drinking and driving? There's no danger there.
I think srqrebel's pointing out that you got this idea
from a cop should be enough to show it's a bad idea. Of all the people to trust...
My own opinion is that drunk driving is harmless (risky... but harmless, unless an actual accident occurs), but that doesn't change the current public perception moral panic surrounding the topic.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2008, 03:29 PM NHFT
What about just underage drinking and no driving?
There have been some ludicrous cases in other States where parents have been arrested for giving their own (late teen) children alcohol. If something like that is illegal here, it might make for good civdis.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on April 21, 2008, 04:38 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2008, 12:48 PM NHFT
What's wrong with a little drinking and driving? There's no danger there.
I think srqrebel's pointing out that you got this idea from a cop should be enough to show it's a bad idea. Of all the people to trust...
My own opinion is that drunk driving is harmless (risky... but harmless, unless an actual accident occurs), but that doesn't change the current public perception moral panic surrounding the topic.
It wasn't his idea, and I don't trust him. He just mentioned it was one of the only things cops are mandated to arrest for.
OK, say some dumb kid actually follows your advice and does what you suggest here. How would you feel if he got hurt or killed? Or if someone else got hurt or killed?
Quote from: Kat Kanning on April 21, 2008, 06:05 PM NHFT
OK, say some dumb kid actually follows your advice and does what you suggest here. How would you feel if he got hurt or killed? Or if someone else got hurt or killed?
I didn't say get wasted and drive. Half a beer to a beer wouldn't do anything at all.
Better yet, 1oz of beer.
The legal limit below age 21 is 0.02 blood alcohol I think. So 2 drops of beer and driving is not illegal.
I have to say I'm against any drinking and driving civil disobedience. You're not going to have any public support. While some people can drink a little and drive safely, it isn't something I want to be associated with advocating at all.
I wasn't a fan of the gambling C.D. because I didn't expect it to garner much sympathy and I'm even less a fan of this. Which underage people are we volunteering to get arrested, btw?
Nobody. I didn't say it was a good idea, just the only one that will guarantee an arrest, apparently.
Well, that and domestic violence (also a mandatory arrest), but there's a victim there.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2008, 07:04 PM NHFT
Well, that and domestic violence (also a mandatory arrest), but there's a victim there.
...Not necessarily (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=13682.msg235306#msg235306). ;D
(http://nhunderground.com/forum/Themes/default/images/post/exclamation.gif)
Any firearms owners thinking of civil disobedience involving domestic violence charges should be aware of this federal law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Domestic_Violence_Offender_Gun_Ban) first.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2008, 07:04 PM NHFT
Well, that and domestic violence (also a mandatory arrest), but there's a victim there.
Now there's an idea! We could get Julia to beat you up :D
Ian, I have absolute respect for you. Every day you're on FTL spreading the message to more and more people. Not only have you found a good way to spread the message of liberty, but you've found a way to do it and sustain your life. Kudos.
That said... What do you really hope to gain by underage drinking CD? Is it really a burning passion for you that teenagers be able to drive after drinking? It seems that this one is more "in your face, we're gonna do whatever" than "this action harms nobody and shouldn't be a crime."
I'm not judging either way, I think CD certainly has it's place. It just seem that this pops up simply because it's shocking and not because it reminds people that laws aren't always right. I'm just looking for your logic here, I suppose.
Well, they ignored us this weekend, so I was just suggesting something they couldn't ignore. If you'll notice, in my initial post I said it probably wasn't a great idea. ::)
Though, I don't see what the big deal is about someone having a beer and driving. I understand people won't look rationally at it though, which is why I expected a cold response.
How about underage drinking and bicycling?
I like the Julia-beating-him-up idea.
I was arrested here in utah on what is called a "Not a Drop" charge. Basically it is a charge given because there was a miniscule amount of alcohol in my system while I was driving and I was under 21. I was obviously not driving eradically I just was dumb enought to be driving on a friday night(Friday the 13th too :( ) I was pulled over for 7 over the limit and I am still paying bribes(fines) to the local government for that. I feel like I should not have recieved the grief I have had as I was certainly driving safe. The laws certainly BS. I don't suggest the driving part but I would love to see someone serve me(20 yo).
It is not a mandatory arrest after all, but underage "transportation" is.
Thread locked.
Why locked?
Besides being a bad idea, my premise was incorrect.