Since Ive seen many in here writing negative things about the police I figured Id throw in a good cop story. We all know how dangerous slow drivers are and how they cause more accidents by driving in the left lane or blocking traffic going slow. Last night coming up RT9 there were two vehicles blocking the one lane road going 35mph in a 50mph. I patiently waited while growing increasingly agitated and found a passing lane in which I blew by both of them, ended up around 70mph by the time I got by. Of course there was a cruiser coming the other way who pulled me over. I told him the deal and he told me to have a nice night.
I did that once and almost ended up losing my drivers license over the whole thing... he wrote on the ticket that I passed a vehicle that was traveling 55mph.
Seems to me the people blowing by at 70 are a problem, not the slow drivers.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on June 24, 2008, 11:24 AM NHFT
Seems to me the people blowing by at 70 are a problem, not the slow drivers.
Why is driving faster a problem? Fast drivers aren't blocking anyone from getting where they need to be.
Slow drivers cause traffic jams and dont go with the flow of traffic. They prevent people who are trying to get somewhere from getting there in normal time and show a blatant disregard for everyone around them. They are more dangerous than drunks as far as Im concerned. Im not asking that they go 70 in a 50 but at least do the limit at minumum not 15 under.
I would like to point out that government roads are the real problem.
Quote from: MengerFan on June 24, 2008, 12:44 PM NHFT
I would like to point out that government roads are the real problem.
Quote from: Romak on June 24, 2008, 12:40 PM NHFT
Slow drivers cause traffic jams and dont go with the flow of traffic. They prevent people who are trying to get somewhere from getting there in normal time and show a blatant disregard for everyone around them. They are more dangerous than drunks as far as Im concerned. Im not asking that they go 70 in a 50 but at least do the limit at minumum not 15 under.
You want people to at least do the max? But, if they go 51 they may be ticketed :)
I was watching some public court proceedings on TV last night. Mostly traffic and parking violations. I guess they have that channel here in RI. The judge would just let old and poor people off because he felt bad. Does it make him human? yeah. Does it make him good? no.
He knows he's hurting people, or he wouldn't let certain ones off. But he's okay with hurting people, as long as they can take it and he doesn't have to see them cry.
Slow drivers are akin to authoritarians. One slow-poke can have an exponential effect on traffic, forcing other drivers to do whatever slow-ass pace they want. Speeders, on the other hand, are libertarian in essence. They adapt to the road and the situation. They don't just drive fast, they go whatever speed needs doing. They are considerate, in that they get the hell out of the way of other drivers. A good metaphor: those puttering douches who spend ten minutes writing out a paper check (paper check? this is the 21-st century!) at the grocery, as opposed to the considerate shoppers who zip their card and are on their way. Likewise, the slow-pokes who meander in the mall/store all spread in a row, with seemingly no awareness that other people might actually have somewhere to go. Bastards. Speed for freedom....FREEDOM!!!!
The Dude is da man I agree completely.
Quote from: TheDUDE on June 24, 2008, 08:28 PM NHFT
Slow drivers are akin to authoritarians. One slow-poke can have an exponential effect on traffic, forcing other drivers to do whatever slow-ass pace they want. Speeders, on the other hand, are libertarian in essence. They adapt to the road and the situation. They don't just drive fast, they go whatever speed needs doing. They are considerate, in that they get the hell out of the way of other drivers. A good metaphor: those puttering douches who spend ten minutes writing out a paper check (paper check? this is the 21-st century!) at the grocery, as opposed to the considerate shoppers who zip their card and are on their way. Likewise, the slow-pokes who meander in the mall/store all spread in a row, with seemingly no awareness that other people might actually have somewhere to go. Bastards. Speed for freedom....FREEDOM!!!!
You are the kind of person I intentionally slow down for.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on June 24, 2008, 08:33 PM NHFT
Quote from: TheDUDE on June 24, 2008, 08:28 PM NHFT
Slow drivers are akin to authoritarians. One slow-poke can have an exponential effect on traffic, forcing other drivers to do whatever slow-ass pace they want. Speeders, on the other hand, are libertarian in essence. They adapt to the road and the situation. They don't just drive fast, they go whatever speed needs doing. They are considerate, in that they get the hell out of the way of other drivers. A good metaphor: those puttering douches who spend ten minutes writing out a paper check (paper check? this is the 21-st century!) at the grocery, as opposed to the considerate shoppers who zip their card and are on their way. Likewise, the slow-pokes who meander in the mall/store all spread in a row, with seemingly no awareness that other people might actually have somewhere to go. Bastards. Speed for freedom....FREEDOM!!!!
You are the kind of person I intentionally slow down for.
You are the kind of person I blow by at 70:0
Quote from: Such and Such on June 24, 2008, 03:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: Romak on June 24, 2008, 12:40 PM NHFT
Slow drivers cause traffic jams and dont go with the flow of traffic. They prevent people who are trying to get somewhere from getting there in normal time and show a blatant disregard for everyone around them. They are more dangerous than drunks as far as Im concerned. Im not asking that they go 70 in a 50 but at least do the limit at minumum not 15 under.
You want people to at least do the max? But, if they go 51 they may be ticketed :)
Ive never heard of a cop ticketing someone for going 1 over the speed limit. Most of my buddies who are cops say the general rule is 5-7 over before they even bother you. Very recently Ive completely lost the fear of seeing a cop in the distance or the fear of seeing one behind me. Im going to drive whatever speed I deem safe, and havent been bothered on iota. Just let you fears go brother.
Quote from: 'Romak'Since Ive seen many in here writing negative things about the police I figured Id throw in a good cop story.
Quote from: 'Romak'Of course there was a cruiser coming the other way who pulled me over. I told him the deal and he told me to have a nice night.
Sounds like a bad cop story to me. If what you did was acceptable, then he pulled you over for doing nothing wrong. If what you did was "wrong" then he should have held you responsible for the damage you did to the victim.
Generally speaking, speeding tickets aren't about safety or committing a crime. They are just another way of coercing money out of citizens.
Quote from: Brandon on June 24, 2008, 10:01 PM NHFT
Generally speaking, speeding tickets aren't about safety or committing a crime. They are just another way of coercing money out of citizens.
Of course that probably goes without saying. :blush:
Quote from: Romak on June 24, 2008, 08:31 PM NHFT
The Dude is da man I agree completely.
Cool, you have the same morality as a teenage boy.
Cops in CA will ticket you for 1 mile over speed limit.
CA is not even considered part of America anymore so far as Im concerned. Ive seen teenagers with more morals than 40 year old men so if you intended for that to be an insult it didnt work.
Quote from: Brandon on June 24, 2008, 10:01 PM NHFT
Generally speaking, speeding tickets aren't about safety or committing a crime. They are just another way of coercing money out of citizens.
Our governor came right out and said she would make up the budget shortfall with photo-radar tickets. I got one, and I'm fighting it.
Anyway, I was almost killed in a wreck because of a slow driver in the left lane on the interstate. I had to dive into the median and spun out, wound up stalled out and backwards on the freeway. A cop was about a hundred yards down the road, since the reason the guy was going 35 was that he was rubbernecking. The cop had responded to a fender bender at the bottom of the on ramp. He drove up and asked if I was OK. I said I was shaken up, but otherwise alright. HE just told me to be careful and have a nice day. Didn't even ask for my license.
not all speeders or slow pokes drive for the conditions
Quote from: Kevin Dean on June 24, 2008, 08:53 PM NHFT
Sounds like a bad cop story to me. If what you did was acceptable, then he pulled you over for doing nothing wrong. If what you did was "wrong" then he should have held you responsible for the damage you did to the victim.
I totally agree.
I just got a ticket last weekend for going 75 in a 55 on a county highway in north central IL. Sunny day, calm, no traffic and the only thing around me was a wind farm and apparently a county deputy that needed revenue on a Sunday afternoon. The cop didn't let me go even though I obeyed and was polite. If he had let me go I would have felt like Kevin Dean. Over all it was a nice touch driving home from my uncle's funeral with my family.
Don't fall for their tricks Romak. The cop sucked you in with the "niceness" and made you feel so good you posted about it. Keep in mind you had to stop, you had no choice. It consumed your time and you were probably stressed wondering about what the person with the gun and restraints might do. You were at his mercy and your fate depended on his whim.
Quote from: Chemist on June 25, 2008, 01:30 PM NHFT
I just got a ticket last weekend for going 75 in a 55 on a county highway in north central IL. Sunny day, calm, no traffic and the only thing around me was a wind farm and apparently a county deputy that needed revenue on a Sunday afternoon. The cop didn't let me go even though I obeyed and was polite. If he had let me go I would have felt like Kevin Dean. Over all it was a nice touch driving home from my uncle's funeral with my family.
Don't fall for their tricks Romak. The cop sucked you in with the "niceness" and made you feel so good you posted about it. Keep in mind you had to stop, you had no choice. It consumed your time and you were probably stressed wondering about what the person with the gun and restraints might do. You were at his mercy and your fate depended on his whim.
Dont know if I necessarily felt good about it. I wasnt worried one bit about what he would do, figured if I got a ticket then so be it. Ive lost all fear of law enforcement that I had when I was a child. Doesnt faze me one bit, just thought it was different that he heard what I said agreed with me and let me go without even a warning. But I hear ya nothing worse than being forced to stop.
Quote from: 'Romak'Ive lost all fear of law enforcement that I had when I was a child.
I'm totally the opposite, honestly. When I was a kid, I was totally enamored with the X-Files and wanted at 7 years old to be an FBI agent. Since then, I've learned every, and I do mean EVERY interaction with a cop results in some kind of loss. On good days, it's a loss of my time. I figure it's only a matter of time before I'll lose more unless something dramatic changes.
If a cop sees you in a town area doing a high speed, he doesn't know if you just killed somebody or are suicidal, or a stupid kid he doesn't want to peel out of a car, he also hopes there isn't a child on a bike trying to get it under control, chasing a ball ect ect...
I love those people that think that they are the only ones in the world, pull out in front of you doing 4 when you are doing the speed limit and then crank the jelopy up to a staggering 27 in a 45. This happened to me once, I almost rear ended him, my adrenelin dumped, I dropped the transmission into 2nd and raced ahead of him, pulled the car sideways in front of him. He stopped, I got out of the car, raced up to his window, and the little dweeb was getting a pen ready to write my lisence plate, shaking like a leaf with round eyes :o i got even angrier!!!!!!! I reached into his car, grabbed the pen, shattered it in my hand, and (ya, you thought I was going to hurt him) I told him what he did and to be carefull. (thanks God for calming me down).
in california, you can get a ticket for going too slow. if you're going ten miles an hour under the flow of traffic, even if the flow of traffic exceeds the speed limit. I rarely hear about people getting these tickets, but they do... so potentially you can get ticketed for going too slow, while driving OVER the speed limit. for example, if the speed limit is 50, and the flow of traffic is 75, you can get a ticket (technically) for going 51...
Quote from: 'brandon dean'in california, you can get a ticket for going too slow.
There was a point where the speed limits were set by federal mandate. I was a kid when it happened, so wasn't too important, but I recall that expiring while Clinton was in office and there was some drama that the nanny-statists feared the universe imploding or something.
That said, most states didn't adjust their laws - Michigan's highway speedlimit is 70 and Maryland's is 55. As far as I know, those mandates also set the minimum speed limit, which in Michigan is actually marked on highway signs (at least between Kalamazoo and Detroit) as 45.
There's also so-called 'safe and prudent' laws that, for instance, if a cop thinks you're drivign too fast for the weather conditions, he can issue you a ticket. That's the most disgusting thing ever. I learned to drive in Michigan, took my drivers test in a foot of snow and here, where there's almost never more than two inches, I get pulled over a LOT for drivign "too fast". The cops around here can't fathom the idea that snow is a normal condition that people can drive in safely doing more than idling. I've gotten several speeding tickets for doing the speed limit exactly.
Quote from: 'grasshopper'If a cop sees you in a town area doing a high speed, he doesn't know if you just killed somebody or are suicidal
Gee whiz... And somehow suicidal people and murderes turn invisible to police when they obey speed limits? Umm... no. The cop doesn't know what you've done because it's not possible, or expected, for him to unless he's witnessed it. If it's okay to pull over speeders to "find out what they've done" then there should be no problem pulling over ANYONE, right, cause the police don't know what they've done either.
Quote from: 'grasshopper'he also hopes there isn't a child on a bike trying to get it under control, chasing a ball ect ect...
There are people who seem to believe that playing the lotto every night makes them more likely to win, despite the fact that statistically, they're not. What people "hope" for is irrelevant, especially when their hope inspires them to use threats of violence to infringe upon the liberty of other people. I'm not a big fan of splattering children on windshields but until that happens, it hasn't happened. If people are going to justify threats of violence and infringement of liberty simply because they're capable of harming someone, shouldn't all hands be removed to prevent theft, all penises be removed to avoid rapes, all mouths be sewn shut to avoid "inciting violence"... That "he might hurt someone" arguement is the exact one that causes the liberty mentioned in the 2nd amendement to be abolished - I'm not happy that the children catching balls thing is being used to eliminate the liberties mentioned in the 4th amendment.
Grasshopper I knew I liked you when I met you. Thats exactly how I feel. The audacity of these pricks to control our lives by going 10 under the limit with a line of 20 freaking cars behind them and they don't even move. If its me and I see someone flying behind me in an obvious hurry I scoot over to the side to let them go by. It should be legal to kill these people :) I can guarantee you if you starting offing these pricks people would never hold up traffic again... : :o
Quote from: grasshopper on June 25, 2008, 02:49 PM NHFT
If a cop sees you in a town area doing a high speed, he doesn't know if you just killed somebody or are suicidal, or a stupid kid he doesn't want to peel out of a car, he also hopes there isn't a child on a bike trying to get it under control, chasing a ball ect ect...
I love those people that think that they are the only ones in the world, pull out in front of you doing 4 when you are doing the speed limit and then crank the jelopy up to a staggering 27 in a 45. This happened to me once, I almost rear ended him, my adrenelin dumped, I dropped the transmission into 2nd and raced ahead of him, pulled the car sideways in front of him. He stopped, I got out of the car, raced up to his window, and the little dweeb was getting a pen ready to write my lisence plate, shaking like a leaf with round eyes :o i got even angrier!!!!!!! I reached into his car, grabbed the pen, shattered it in my hand, and (ya, you thought I was going to hurt him) I told him what he did and to be carefull. (thanks God for calming me down).
That sounds like a good way to get hurt. Someday, you wont be the larger man. And even if you are, you might just get shot or run over. Yes, the guy was annoying and caused you inconvenience and danger, but you didn't know why or what may have been going on, you simply assumed you did, then you escalated the situation, making it more dangerous for both of you. That's typical cop bullshit. Stick your aggressive face in where it isn't wanted, intimidate and destroy property, then act like you did someone a favor. Are you a cop?
Anyway, whenever someone pisses me off in traffic, I just let it go. I regard the other drivers as robots, like in a video game. I learned to do this because my dad is the same kind of hothead as grasshopper here, and I remember the shame and embarrassment, as well as abject terror of his road rages and the danger they put me and my family in.
And in Romak's last post here, he makes it clear that it IS all about him and his desire to get from place to place as fast as he can. You own the road, Romak? You are the only one who is important, and you never ever fuck up and get in someone's way, or drive too slow, or get lost or have to read a sign, or any other thing that might possibly annoy another driver. Riiiiiiiiiiight. ::)
Quote from: Dylboz on June 25, 2008, 07:48 PM NHFT
Anyway, whenever someone pisses me off in traffic, I just let it go. I regard the other drivers as robots, like in a video game. I learned to do this because my dad is the same kind of hothead as grasshopper here, and I remember the shame and embarrassment, as well as abject terror of his road rages and the danger they put me and my family in.
yep. Even honking is almost always unnecessary. "You just got in my way and I nearly bumped you! Here's a honk" ... That doesn't fix anything. I'm guilty of doing it a few times recently, one during a particularly frustrating day, but I'm ashamed of it. Honking usually does nothing but announce: "Look everyone. I'm right and this asshole is wrong." That won't get you any respect.
the only reason a horn should be used in my opinion is to let someone who might not see you know you're there. I had to really curb the road rage of my younger days... I'm just an impatient bastard, and if anything will teach you patience (gotta be willing to learn of course), it's women and traffic in los angeles... :lockstep:
Quote from: Chemist on June 25, 2008, 01:30 PM NHFT
I just got a ticket last weekend for going 75 in a 55 on a county highway in north central IL. Sunny day, calm, no traffic and the only thing around me was a wind farm and apparently a county deputy that needed revenue on a Sunday afternoon. The cop didn't let me go even though I obeyed and was polite. If he had let me go I would have felt like Kevin Dean. Over all it was a nice touch driving home from my uncle's funeral with my family.
I feel you there, I've had a bit of trouble around here in North Central IL, I would have lost my license if it weren't for clerical errors... All I can say is do not drive late at night/early morning especially with younger people in the car, the officers will make up the speeding story just to pull you over to try to find a reason to search you... generally no problem except for when they need to fill their quota of tickets and they stick you with some stupid speeding ticket they dreamed up.
Of course not. I'm not the perfect driver I don't think anyone is, but like I said if I'm going to slow I move aside and let others pass. Its the NH way afterall. In fact its the opposite people who don't pay attention to others and hold up traffic are the ones who feel as though they are the important ones, and haven't got a care in the world about other people on the road. I drive fast... so what, haven't gotten a ticket in over ten years. I drive to the road conditions and don't zip around like some idiot between cars when traffic is going slow. And no being a man I absolutely never get lost nor do I need to read street signs I have every one in the state memorized. ;D
:'( Aww, I was 23 at the time, I was a very high strung idealistic kiddy. I wouldn't do anything like that these days unless I had my gun drawn (just kidding) ::)
Look, That was probribly a stupid thing to do but these days I'm the one doing the speed limit why? Because I don't want to hassle of having the "Man" calling for backup, helli-o- copters and missile strikes. ;D
When you guys meet me, you'll see how I am, I look strung out but I am just naturally that way, I see things in black and white on most things and will put up with a lot of harassment and insults, I am not a violent man anymore. I never was in the first place, I just get a little miffed when somebody tries to kill me with or without meaning it.
I am also the kind of person that will help anybody, no really. If Ron needs help doing stuff, I'll get to work, that is how I am. I just need to get up there!
As for being a cop? I wouldn't be able to do the job. I imagine myself in a sutuation where a drunk guy kills 3 people, 1 mom, 2 children and he himself doesn't get hurt, he is walking around, swigging wiskey and calling me a pig. I don't think I'd be able to put him in the car without a few pounds of flesh being blown from his body. I think of violance but don't act on it.
Hell I even smile all the time, how can you guys think I'm a cop? (insulting as all hell)
Grasshopper isnt a cop, he would be too busy letting everyone go and nothing would ever get done. Actually..........maybe he should be a cop. Hey grasshopper we're going booning tonight down some pretty scary roads. My buddy is coming with his 50cal mounted on his jeep, usually makes for some pretty interesting chitola. Last week we got stuck in a bog and the only thing on everyones minds was dont let the guns get wet. Should be bout 20 of us, red neck central, you should come sometime.
2 weeks from now, then. I have some bills to catch up on. Where do you go trashing? ap coordnance?
Over the river and through the woods is where we go. No money needed unless you like a special type of beer. Where we go drinking and driving is perfectly legal.
I got a good idea, speed limits be set at what the actual limit on speed should be, a speed it would be unsafe to go faster than, such as 90 on highways, 45 on residential. That way, you don't have to fear cops for going at a very maintainable pace. Some roads, its expected you go at least 10 over. It's just a way of giving cops the ability to pull over anyone...and if you go less than the speed limit, that's 'unusual' and they can grab you for that. At least setting a high limit exempt one from getting pulled over for going with the flow of traffic.
But the better idea is privitize roads, of course.
I can deal with 90mph on the highways. You can argue this point until you're blue in the face but the fact is the State wont give up all that money they make in traffic violations.
The problem with arbitrary speed limits...
They're arbitrary.
QuoteThis happened to me once, I almost rear ended him, my adrenelin dumped, I dropped the transmission into 2nd and raced ahead of him, pulled the car sideways in front of him. He stopped, I got out of the car, raced up to his window, and the little dweeb was getting a pen ready to write my lisence plate, shaking like a leaf with round eyes Shocked i got even angrier!!!!!!! I reached into his car, grabbed the pen, shattered it in my hand, and (ya, you thought I was going to hurt him) I told him what he did and to be carefull. (thanks God for calming me down).
So you, the libertarian non-agressor, the believer in private property,
1. cut off someone, thereby endangering his life (after the threat to yours was over)
2. restricted his ability to travel by blocking him in
3. after cutting off his escape, rushed his car
4. violated his space reaching into his car
5. and finally took then destroyed his property.
You sir, are much more of an authoritarian and tyrant than anyone I have ever met. Further, I would have found him in reasonable fear for his life during predations 3 an 4 were I on the jury for him shooting you. Please understand, he could have killed you, and I would be fine with that.
If you are this prone to explosive outbursts of anger, please get rid of your guns.
Then again, maybe you realize that you were entirely wrong in this exchange, have repented and intend to go forth and sin no more. In which case, I will welcome you to sit with me at Murphy's.
Also, I am a slow driver. I travel on the right, and often pull over to let people pass, especially if they are being aggressive.
:idea1:
I would point out to you something I noticed several years ago. Every old person I see drives slow. I tried to figure out why that was, and I came to a revolutionary and life changing conclusion: Only people who drive slow get to be old. The fast drivers were most likely all killed in accidents.
That said, if you are behind me and I cannot find a place to pull off to the side to let you pass, please do not make me have a reasonable fear for my life or the lives of my passengers. You may know me by my plates. I have the Veteran's plate that says "GUNLVR".
DigitalWarrior
Think Ive seen you around Gunlvr. Thanks for pulling over for the fast drivers out there. I may have to drive even faster now since I don't have much time to live due to my aggressiveness :)
Quote from: Romak on June 27, 2008, 02:01 PM NHFT
I may have to drive even faster now since I don't have much time to live due to my aggressiveness :)
I think you need to get a decent sport bike (think Kawasaki 1200 or better) that way you can go 200+ with less of a risk to other drivers then if you were driving a car.
OMG, LOL
:o
200+!!!
So if I am driving 60 in a 55, and you hit me from behind, It would be like I was parked and you were doing 140! I actually think that might reach critical mass and start a nuclear fission reaction.
One thing is for sure, you wouldn't end up spending any money on a hospital stay!
As far as danger to others goes, it would still be irresponsible and criminal.
Quote from: Giggan on June 26, 2008, 11:06 PM NHFT
I got a good idea, speed limits be set at what the actual limit on speed should be, a speed it would be unsafe to go faster than, such as 90 on highways, 45 on residential.
In what car? Under what conditions? Day or night?
the thread topic needs to be changed.
"BAD Cop"
no such thing as "GOOD cop"
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on June 27, 2008, 02:18 PM NHFT
OMG, LOL
:o
200+!!!
So if I am driving 60 in a 55, and you hit me from behind, It would be like I was parked and you were doing 140! I actually think that might reach critical mass and start a nuclear fission reaction.
One thing is for sure, you wouldn't end up spending any money on a hospital stay!
As far as danger to others goes, it would still be irresponsible and criminal.
Trust me I'd have a witty reply to this but I'm platerd right nowe so my6 objection must do for now...
Quote from: Dylboz on June 27, 2008, 05:05 PM NHFT
Quote from: Giggan on June 26, 2008, 11:06 PM NHFT
I got a good idea, speed limits be set at what the actual limit on speed should be, a speed it would be unsafe to go faster than, such as 90 on highways, 45 on residential.
In what car? Under what conditions? Day or night?
This is true. Like I said though, the speed limit would be an unsafe speed, and thus, once you hit it, you could be penalized. They don't do a good job distinguishing now, like in snowstorms you lose control at 20 on some residential streets. It doesn't need to be dictated that you need to slow down so much as most people know to do it or crash. Unfortunately, there's a number of morons who don't grasp this concept which we see driving in storms, however there'd probably be less of them if they weren't being subsidized.
Kola there are always good people in every group. To lump all cops together because there happens to be bad ones out there is a pretty foolish way of thinking.
Kola there are always good people in every group. To lump all murderers together because there happens to be bad ones out there is a pretty foolish way of thinking.
Sometimes, the nature of the job is just plain bad.
Quote from: 'Kat Kanning'Kola there are always good people in every group. To lump all murderers together because there happens to be bad ones out there is a pretty foolish way of thinking.
I've actually got to disagree with your point here. Very few murderers say "It's for your own good" or do what they do out in the open.
I wasn't really trying to say all cops are murderers, just showing the ridiculousness of saying 'you can't say everyone in a group is bad'.
Digital, back "then" I was out of control. I was not a good person. I was raised a good person and soon after that incident, about 2 years after, I had an Epiphany, If I didn't "slow down", I'd be dead.
That was the only time I did what I did. Hell, my room mate was an H.A. How dumb is that?
At that age, i didn't even consider having anything that went boom. I calmed down, got back into God a bit, and only got my first firearm when I was a bit older, in 95. I went through a lot of stuff to straiten myself out. I went homeless for 3 months, lived in my car and got very sick. I lived in the car until late October. I did my penance for the stupid things I did when I was "Indestructible".
When do you go to Murphy's? I have already drank with a bunch of people there but they didn't know who I was. Funny though, I almost walked into the door that said, "use other door" last year. I got a chuckle out of a small group of people that were at the top of the bar. I also met Ron Hueling an hour before tap room Tuesdays around that time. I met Kieth a few times at lunch but I didn't say anything about the Forum here. I didn't want to freak him out.
I look like a cop when I'm all cleaned up, I have been mistaken for military and LEOS all my life.
Hell, just this morning a "woman" driver almost pushed me into the oppisit lane on Mamoth Rd. I just looked at her, did to "cross" thing and I got a fricken additude from her, like it was MY fault! I dropped it, like it never happened. Oh, by the way, i was on my bike.
there are no good pedophiles.
there are no good animal abusers.
there are no good murderers.
there are no good cops. NONE...if there are any doubts, Oinker Maxwell and Brad Baconbits proved that.
Kola
You look at bad neighborhoods and the majority of them are predominately black or hispanic which would lead one to believe they are dangerous people who committ the majority of crimes. Does that mean all of them are bad because they are black or hispanic? Of course it doesnt but there are plenty of people who hate all of them just the same. There are a lot of good cops out there but also quite a few bad ones just like in any group. That was my point, cant clump any one group together as all bad just because of who they are.
Quote from: 'Romak'Does that mean all of them are bad because they are black or hispanic?
Being black or hispanic doesn't correlate at all with action. It's a physical trait. "Being a cop" describes an action. "All people who are cops have jobs that charge them with using violence or threats of violence". Or "All cops are members of a monopoly that do business at the point of a gun".
There's a correlation between the category (cop) and the action (violence) and the value judgement (bad) because membership in the category is earned by a set of actions, not a set of physical traits.
But if that's difficult, perhaps I should break this into two statements. "All cops initiate violence or threaten it in carrying out their job duties. All people who continue to commit acts of violence are bad."
Why is it that people seem to think that cops are cops by accident? Like they woke up one day and they were a police officer? So now, "they're just doing their job," and "it is very stressful," etc. Hey, they ASKED for the job. They sought it out, for reasons all their own, so I don't have any sympathy, nor do I accept their lame ass excuses for abusing their authority.
Most people do not share your views. I am pretty sure that most moral cops do not view the world in black and white. Instead, they have judged that they will do far more good than evil as an officer of the law, and that the only way to stay an officer of the law is to enforce it all (I am pretty sure that they cannot choose which laws to enforce). I am sure that if he woke up and felt like he was doing nothing but evil, he would become a short order cook or something.
I hold the view that police officers have decided to become the enforcement arm of the community under the belief that they will do more good than evil. Instead it would be more accurate to accuse me of evil, because I believe that government is necessary, I believe a government may make laws within it's own borders according to it's Constitutional authority, and I believe that a law created by a representative body is not, by definition, immoral. I would like to reform the system of government, making it smaller, more controlled, and more moral.
Quote from: DigitalWarriorMost people do not share your views.
Irrelevant.
Quote from: DigitalWarriorI hold the view that police officers have decided to become the enforcement arm of the community under the belief that they will do more good than evil.
The intentions of the police also are irrelevant. Their actions are at issue.
Quote from: DigitalWarriorInstead it would be more accurate to accuse me of evil, because I believe that government is necessary
You said it.
Quote from: Kevin Dean on June 30, 2008, 12:18 PM NHFT
I've actually got to disagree with your point here. Very few murderers say "It's for your own good" or do what they do out in the open.
That rationale can't be used to describe cops as bad who are honest and admit they are causing harm and claim that they wish they weren't ordered to do as they do. However, that's not to say I disagree with the other reasons posted.
If you locked a group of monkeys in a room with a type writer sooner or later they'll write something
you can read. Very low odds and it might take a million years. Good cops may be as rare as monkey poetry, but I still can't say ALL cops are bad. I'd agree that the position of "police officer" is one that
I have a prejudice against and question the motivation of anyone becoming a cop or locking monkeys in a room for that matter.
I have yet to read any good poetry authored by monkeys, nor have I ever heard a monkey say while flinging shit at a zoo "hey I'm just doing my job", but if you give a cop enough bananas they probably will not fling shit at you. Pull you over and harass you, yes. Fling shit? Nope. See? Cops ARE better than trained monkeys I just proved it. :icon_monkey:
Poo-slinging defense only requires a poo shield. If I built one in my front yard and did something 'they' didn't like, it wouldn't help. Iguess there's downsides to every evil.
Quote from: 'DigitalWarrior'Instead it would be more accurate to accuse me of evil, because I believe that government is necessary,
I'm one of those people with "endgame" in mind all the time. I'm a very keenly aware that, assuming we both meet our mutual goals of increasing liberty to a point of X (lets say a government the size you want) we'll then move from being ideological allies to being ideological opposition. I am a former "liberal" turned voluntaryist because I've found that government people always back up their actions with violence. Be it something like "not killing people" or "don't speed" or "mow your grass" there's always the ever present threat of violence. I consider violence to be disgusting and no amount of pragmatic rhetoric can excuse it - the "small, limited government" arguement makes no sense to me.
Quote from: 'DigitalWarrior'Instead, they have judged that they will do far more good than evil as an officer of the law, and that the only way to stay an officer of the law is to enforce it all (I am pretty sure that they cannot choose which laws to enforce). I am sure that if he woke up and felt like he was doing nothing but evil, he would become a short order cook or something.
In all fairness, even as little as two months ago, I would be right next to you agreeing. It has become more and more clear to me, however, that this isn't the case. In fact, it's more and more becoming clear that this is WHY the police are such a problem.
Someone who commits an act against violence has done something wrong. The only way to be "immoral" in my opinion, is to commit an act of violence against someone KNOWING it is wrong. Police "doing their job" is repeated acts of violence. There is only one thing worse in my mind than someone who repeatedly uses violence against others, and that's someone who repeatedly uses violence against others and KNOWS it as violence.
From Wendy McElroy comes this gem.
The Thin Blue Lie
I'd rather take my chances with criminals than with the police. For one thing, criminals usually want your property, not control over your life.
Policemen will angrily assure me that they are the barrier between civilians and a world of random violence. This was a common theme in the flood of hate mail I received from policemen who responded to a column I wrote "Prevent Violence: Disarm the Police." (That article is appended to this one. See below in extended text.) Many officers provided the further assurance that - given my bad attitude - I had best not count on their assistance against a rapist. (Rape was the assault consistently mentioned, perhaps because the e-mails were all from men.) Well, years ago, I was raped and the police weren't there. So it will be difficult to tell the difference.
The police e-mails that disturbed me were not the threatening or abusive ones. These merely confirmed my opinion: the police are the enemies of anyone who holds a 'wrong' idea or takes a 'wrong' action, however peaceful that action may be. I was disturbed by the few written by officers who were clearly decent and reflective human beings. Of course, they disagreed with my contention that the current police system is just one more layer of State abuse which must be abolished and rebuilt along entirely different principles. (The first principle being to protect the persons and property of those who are peaceful. The second one being to leave everyone else alone.) These officers believed they could change the system from within.
I don't believe reform is possible. Consider an analogy: A man goes to work in a factory that produces cardboard boxes. Taking his place on the assembly line, he announces an intention to produce envelopes instead. As long as that man uses the factory's materials and complies with its procedures, his intention will be irrelevant. He will produce cardboard boxes because that is what the institution/factory is designed to manufacture.
'The police' is an institution designed to enforce the law, whatever the law may be, and to process those suspected of violating it. Only if the law is just does an individual policeman stand any chance of 'producing' justice. To a large degree, current law is designed to produce morality (e.g. enforcing victimless crimes), social 'ideals' (affirmative action) or the protection of political power (gun control). As long as the well-intentioned policeman uses the institution's materials - the law - and complies with its procedures, he will not produce justice. All he can do is to minimize the viciousness with which unjust laws are enforced.
I do not belittle the importance of reducing police brutality. Yet I believe attempts to reform this aspect of the problem are doomed as well. I do not use 'bad apples' like Officer Justin Volpe, who sodomized suspect Louima with a broom, as a paradigm around which to level criticism. I am willing to believe that Volpe's sort is as unusual as the idealistic policeman who treats suspects with real compassion. The vast majority of people in any profession fall in the middle of the bell curve, not at either end. I think most officers simply wish to process the goods - that is, the suspects - with as little trouble as possible. When the goods resist processing, the police respond with the same frustration anyone would feel. Only police carry guns. They often view suspects as less than human. And, as with domestic violence, their brutality has the protection of occurring behind a closed door.
The example I use to argue that a few well-intention officers will not reduce brutality is Sgt. Michael Bellomo. He is one of the other four defendants in the Louima matter and the only one not charged with some form of assault. Bellomo went on trial for lying to the FBI about Louima. He is, more credibly, the typical policeman. He protected the unbelievable brutality of a fellow-officer rather than tell the truth. I believe Bellomo is the norm that good intentions will not overcome.
Many, if not most policemen lie. They lie all the time. I remember when my husband lost all faith in the average policeman. At meeting him, I was surprised to learn that he, a civil rights zealot, had preserved a positive image of the 'cop on the beat.' About two months later, he contested a rather trivial speeding ticket in court. The officer involved repeatedly lied under oath. "If the police lie about something that matters so little," he asked me, "how can I believe what they say about anything important?" From that moment, he has never accepted a policeman's statement at face value.
I am a peace-loving, middle-class white woman who does not have so much as a traffic violation on my record. My husband and I should be the rock-solid strata of support upon which the police can draw. They can't because we know they don't protect us. We know they do not produce justice. And the best intentions of the most honorable officers will be lost in the willingness of most policemen to lie to protect the abuses of the worst of their kind. I'll take my chances with the criminals.
Great article!
I even think that the average cop, is in his mind, "helping to protect innocent people" .... they actually have better intentions than to just process the work with the least effort .... but it still ends up in the same place
I have also noticed that those that enjoy the idea of using force outside the police department ... gang mentality gun cleaners come to mind .... use much the same abusive language to attack those of us that do not want to use force as Wendy experienced in emails from cops.
Man Romak, you opened a can of whoopass against cops here. ;D
My belief in good over evil tells me we need trained people to stop bad people from hurting the weak. It bothers me that our system has been taken over by the same people that are trying to destroy our country. My point. It isn't the cops but the crooked politicians that we have to worry about, if we do what a lot of you are doing, that is to change this country for the better, we Will be able to hire the police ourselves. We need them. if we can get them to stop harassing teenagers for a joint, enforcing stupid laws that are there to fill up private prisons, we'll be doing ok.
Russell, good point, there are people like I was that want to use violence against others because it makes them feel cool. I got over it, even though in my own mind I thought I was justified. I also own firearms, i love them for the history of the world. The world is how it is and I wish there was no violence in this world, but there is. I would trust each and every one of you first, if I got to know you before I trusted a cop that was a strainer to me. Those cops who e-mailed her were offended and I am glad they were. If you look at last years open carry incident, the Manchester Cop showed up and then went into ass covering mode and tried to bust or favorite Porq with putting up girlscout advertisements, they can't help it, most of them like to hurt people if they can't hurt bad guys, they get a high from it. Not all of them.
In kalifornia a few years ago there was a family that was attacked by a crazy mad man, http://amarillo.com/stories/090200/usn_testpitchfork.shtml he used a pitchfork to stab and kill 2 children, the neighbors didn't want to get involved, the young girl was not able to stop the murder of her family members because she was not allowed to "be a gun cleaner". Her Dad locked the gun up and her Brother and sister died because of it. She escaped through thewindow and people didn't help her, they cowered in their homes, listening to the horrible screams of the nut case and the victims. If there was a cop there, maybe there would of been somebody that runs to the violence other than running away. The cops cleaned up that "mess" also.
umm stranger :P