I've decided to put my guns and ammo up for sale. I am attempting to liquidate my collection to help pay off debts. Here is the first pistol: http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/FreeAds/auction.cgi?action=ViewItem&ID=1219024922&Cat_ID=118&Lang=English (http://www.cheaperthandirt.com/FreeAds/auction.cgi?action=ViewItem&ID=1219024922&Cat_ID=118&Lang=English)
I will add more later. You can click on the link on that page that shows my other auctions to see what else I have for sale. Friends in NH do not have to pay for shipping if we can do a face-to-face transfer.
Will you be selling any revolvers? If so, I'll be interested in helping alleviate your debt.
The only revolver I own is a .22lr NAA Mini revolver.
I have a .32 revolver that I'd be interested in trading for something more modern/compact. It's old, but it works, and could be considered an antique in a few decades ;)
Quote from: PowerPenguin on August 21, 2008, 11:35 PM NHFT
I have a .32 revolver that I'd be interested in trading for something more modern/compact. It's old, but it works, and could be considered an antique in a few decades ;)
By the legal definition, it doesn't matter how old it gets: it's only an antique if it was made before January 1, 1899.
was wondering if you have any magazines for either a romanian gp-wasr 7.62x.39 or a keltek p-11 9mm luger?
If you could email me your list of firearms for sale I am looking for a tactical shotgun and possibly other guns.
Unfortunately all of my guns and ammo have been seized because an order of protection was served against me, which was based on lies. :( Unfortunately no evidence was required to file and get the order. If I get my guns, ammo, etc. back, I will have some 7.62x39 AK mags for sale, including 30, 40 and 75 round magazines.
Damn that sux. I knew a guy who got something like 175k worth of property stolen by the BATFE a couple of years ago. What state did this happen in? The guy I know was in the Midwest, I think MI or MN. My revolver is from somewhere between 1918 and 1921. Does this mean that in a couple of decades, I can at least have an *il*legal antique? :P
Quote from: PowerPenguin on October 20, 2008, 07:38 PM NHFT
My revolver is from somewhere between 1918 and 1921. Does this mean that in a couple of decades, I can at least have an *il*legal antique? :P
To be an antique (by the federal definition), it has to have been made before January 1, 1899. Contrary to popular belief, a firearm can never "turn" antique by being 100 years old, or whatever. It either is an antique already, or never will be.
Quote from: KBCraig on October 22, 2008, 01:39 AM NHFT
To be an antique (by the federal definition), it has to have been made before January 1, 1899. Contrary to popular belief, a firearm can never "turn" antique by being 100 years old, or whatever. It either is an antique already, or never will be.
I think that tends to be true of antiques in general. We're sort of beyond the point of most of the things we buy ever being antiques because so much of it is mass produced in some warehouse. Things we consider antiques now were hand made by a small number of craftsmen that stopped producing decades ago. My press-board book shelf from Wal-mart might be sitting in the corner of Captain Picard's ready room some day (I doubt it) but it will never be an antique. :)
Quote from: dalebert on October 22, 2008, 07:53 AM NHFT
My press-board book shelf from Wal-mart might be sitting in the corner of Captain Picard's ready room some day (I doubt it) but it will never be an antique. :)
It will if you hand-paint the Anarcho-Boogeyman on it, and engrave your name in the Wally-wood. :)
Quote from: Defender of Liberty on October 20, 2008, 12:47 PM NHFT
Unfortunately all of my guns and ammo have been seized because an order of protection was served against me, which was based on lies. :( Unfortunately no evidence was required to file and get the order. If I get my guns, ammo, etc. back, I will have some 7.62x39 AK mags for sale, including 30, 40 and 75 round magazines.
Shit man! I'm so sorry to see this! Update us ASAP :(
Quote from: KBCraig on October 22, 2008, 01:39 AM NHFT
Quote from: PowerPenguin on October 20, 2008, 07:38 PM NHFT
My revolver is from somewhere between 1918 and 1921. Does this mean that in a couple of decades, I can at least have an *il*legal antique? :P
To be an antique (by the federal definition), it has to have been made before January 1, 1899. Contrary to popular belief, a firearm can never "turn" antique by being 100 years old, or whatever. It either is an antique already, or never will be.
Sorry to dredge up this weeks old thread but:
Kevin,
I just had reason to wander into atf.gov and saw this paragraph (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm).
QuoteFirearms automatically attain curio or relic (C&R) status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. However, if your C&R item is regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) and you desire removal from the provisions of the NFA, you must submit the firearm to the Firearms Technology Branch for evaluation and a formal classification.
How does this relate to what you said above?
Ask the police if there is a provision in the NH law that allows you to transfer the weapons to a legally allowed person. I know in MA they have to turn the guns over in a certain period of time if you transfer them to a person who is legally allowed to own them.
EDIT I read this:
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/district/protocols/dv/c14.pdf
And you can petition the court to allow you to transfer the guns to a FFL for storage, and IMHO and IANAL sale by the FFL.
Quote from: neggy on November 18, 2008, 10:44 AM NHFT
Ask the police if there is a provision in the NH law that allows you to transfer the weapons to a legally allowed person. I know in MA they have to turn the guns over in a certain period of time if you transfer them to a person who is legally allowed to own them.
EDIT I read this:
http://www.courts.state.nh.us/district/protocols/dv/c14.pdf
And you can petition the court to allow you to transfer the guns to a FFL for storage, and IMHO and IANAL sale by the FFL.
Thank you neggy. Based on what I read in that document, it looks like the officer who served me lied to me. He told me that the order was the same as a search warrant and that I had to let them go into my apartment to search it. That document is very helpful.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on November 18, 2008, 09:50 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on October 22, 2008, 01:39 AM NHFT
Quote from: PowerPenguin on October 20, 2008, 07:38 PM NHFT
My revolver is from somewhere between 1918 and 1921. Does this mean that in a couple of decades, I can at least have an *il*legal antique? :P
To be an antique (by the federal definition), it has to have been made before January 1, 1899. Contrary to popular belief, a firearm can never "turn" antique by being 100 years old, or whatever. It either is an antique already, or never will be.
Sorry to dredge up this weeks old thread but:
Kevin,
I just had reason to wander into atf.gov and saw this paragraph (http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/index.htm).
QuoteFirearms automatically attain curio or relic (C&R) status when they are 50 years old. Any firearm that is at least 50 years old, and in its original configuration, would qualify as a C&R firearm. It is not necessary for such firearms to be listed in ATF's C&R list. However, if your C&R item is regulated under the National Firearms Act (NFA) and you desire removal from the provisions of the NFA, you must submit the firearm to the Firearms Technology Branch for evaluation and a formal classification.
How does this relate to what you said above?
Antiques and C&Rs are two different things.
From an ATF publication:
As defined in 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(16) the term "antique firearm" means—
...(A) any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion
cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; or
(B) any replica of any firearm described in subparagraph (A) if such replica --
(i) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional
centerfire fixed ammunition, or
(ii) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which
is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not
readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade; or
(C) any muzzle loading rifle, muzzle loading shotgun, or muzzle loading pistol,
which is designed to use black powder, or a black powder substitute, and which
cannot use fixed ammunition. For purposes of this subparagraph, the term
'antique firearm' shall not include any weapon which incorporates a firearm
frame or receiver, any firearm which is converted into a muzzle loading
weapon, or any muzzle loading weapon, which can be readily converted to fire
fixed ammunition by replacing the barrel, bolt, breechblock, or any
combination thereof.
(The second half of paragraph C is for guns like the Thompson/Center convertibles, which can not only change calibers, but can change from fixed ammo to muzzleloader with just a quick (30 seconds or so) change of the barrel. There's even an inline ignition muzzleloading AR upper available.)
So in short, anything made before 1/1/1899 (no matter what kind of ammo or ignition system it uses), or a modern reproduction that does not fire commercially available ammunition (and can't be readily converted to fire conventional rimfire or centerfire fixed ammunition),
is not a firearm under federal law.
Curios & Relics, though,
are firearms. They just happen to be classified as collectible, which means C&R FFLs can acquire and dispose of them in interstate trade for the purpose of enhancing their collections. C&R FFLs ("crufflers") are not dealers, and aren't allowed to engage in the business of selling firearms. They can sell, and even make profits, they just can't "engage in the business".
A C&R is any firearm that was manufactured more than 50 years before the current date. Or, any firearm that has been determined to be collectible by a museum curator, or placed on "the list" by ATF. ("The list" is long and includes many entries that are a specific gun by serial number; most of them would be C&R by age anyway, but they never purge "the list".)
The exception (not by law, but by ATF ruling) is that military firearms that are not in their "original military configuration" are not C&R no matter how old they are. Meaning, those surplus WWI rifles that were sold for a buck apiece and sporterized, aren't C&R despite being over 90 years old. This is contrary to a plain reading of the law, but ATF has never been accused of following the intent of either the law or the Constitution.
On the upside, there are many Mausers and Lee-Enfields dating from the 1870s-1890s that fire exactly the same ammunition as those in modern production. A Mauser in 7mm or 8mm, or a Lee-Enfield in .303 British, made in 1899 is a firearm; one made in the same factory on 12/31/1898 is an "antique", and can be purchased interstate without an FFL, and even be sent through the mail. It
is not a firearm under federal law.
Same for Martini-Henrys in .303, Winchester 94s in .30-30, Colt SAA in .45 Colt, and dozens of other "antique" models in calibers that are still in modern production.
(Machineguns are always machineguns, no matter when they were made, though. Sorry, no Maxims without the Form 4 and $200 tax stamp. :( )
Dunno if that clarified your question, or just piled on the ATF bamboozlement.
Perfect KB! A quick search of ATF site didn't give up a "Definitions" antique" page.
I did find out, though, that state AWB bans override C&R FFL, no? CT doesn't like the Yugo SKS I want; but then again, it is not on the C&R "List" either - just the Russian, Albanian and one other.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on November 18, 2008, 12:29 PM NHFT
Perfect KB! A quick search of ATF site didn't give up a "Definitions" antique" page.
I did find out, though, that state AWB bans override C&R FFL, no? CT doesn't like the Yugo SKS I want; but then again, it is not on the C&R "List" either - just the Russian, Albanian and one other.
I'm not sure if you're talking about a CT C&R list or a federal one, but as of a couple years ago the Yugo SKS was definitely considered C&R according to BAFTE.
Quote from: margomaps on November 19, 2008, 12:56 PM NHFT
Quote from: Pat McCotter on November 18, 2008, 12:29 PM NHFT
Perfect KB! A quick search of ATF site didn't give up a "Definitions" antique" page.
I did find out, though, that state AWB bans override C&R FFL, no? CT doesn't like the Yugo SKS I want; but then again, it is not on the C&R "List" either - just the Russian, Albanian and one other.
I'm not sure if you're talking about a CT C&R list or a federal one, but as of a couple years ago the Yugo SKS was definitely considered C&R according to BAFTE.
OK. I just didn't find it by name on the list. The fed list, BTW.
Also, does the C&R FFL override state bans?
Quote from: Pat McCotter on November 19, 2008, 01:35 PM NHFTOK. I just didn't find it by name on the list. The fed list, BTW.
Also, does the C&R FFL override state bans?
My understanding is that the fed C&R list isn't necessarily exhaustive, and provides a clause for items which are of the exact same design/function as something on the list. My memory is a little fuzzy on this, but I think that's the gist at any rate. It's the reason why a Yugo SKS was considered C&R even though it wasn't on the fed list.
I don't know for a fact about state bans, but I think it's overwhelmingly likely that the state ban overrides that C&R list. :(
C&R doesn't override state laws, but some restrictive states do allow "bonafide collectors" to collect things that can't otherwise be bought in those states.
The Yugo SKS is officially classified as C&R; it was included in the update from March 2001 to March 2005:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/0301to0505update.htm
Yugoslavian manufactured rifles M59 and M59/66, 7.62 x 39mm caliber, all semiautomatic variations and having a fixed magazine, manufactured from 1947 to 1992.
Quote from: KBCraig on November 19, 2008, 02:42 PM NHFT
C&R doesn't override state laws, but some restrictive states do allow "bonafide collectors" to collect things that can't otherwise be bought in those states.
The Yugo SKS is officially classified as C&R; it was included in the update from March 2001 to March 2005:
http://www.atf.gov/firearms/curios/0301to0505update.htm
Yugoslavian manufactured rifles M59 and M59/66, 7.62 x 39mm caliber, all semiautomatic variations and having a fixed magazine, manufactured from 1947 to 1992.
Yep, there it is! I must not have done the 'yugo' search on that page.
Thanks KB and margo!
wait wait, it has a NATO grenade launcher on it with an adjustable gas valve...
Quote from: grasshopper on December 03, 2008, 05:25 PM NHFT
wait wait, it has a NATO grenade launcher on it with an adjustable gas valve...
Yes, I know. Here in CT it is verboten. Semi-auto, detachable mag, bayonet lug (with folding bayonet :o!) and grenade launcher.
If I swap the grenade launcher with a muzzle break, it might pass muster, legally, but there will be shudders when they see the bayonet. Just removing the bayonet doesn't do it; the lug would have to be ground off. It just wouldn't be a Yugoslav SKS after either or both of those defilings. :'(
ha i got a yugo with the bayo and the launcher etc etc etc for 100 bucks :) coolest thing for a 100 i have bought so far ;D
Quote from: leetninja on December 04, 2008, 06:44 PM NHFT
ha i got a yugo with the bayo and the launcher etc etc etc for 100 bucks :) coolest thing for a 100 i have bought so far ;D
Do they have any more?!?!?! ;D