For those that don't my current situation - I am a registered Sex Offender because I had a consensual relationship with a young woman not of "legal" age in my state.
Update from my last post months ago - The state requires 1 of 2 conditions to be met in order to move back home with your family - I have met both & I am currently not even allowed to have pictures of my daughter let alone see her. The last time I held her was the day I went to jail April 06. I tried to take my case before the judge & he wouldn't even hear it... my lawyer won't do anything else. So I need to move - from what I understand, having met the 2nd requirement, I can not be denied a move.
I could, in theory, move next week. I need someone to "sponsor" me in that I need to have an approved job lined up & a place to live as well as a willing & waiting probation department. Ideally this would be a single male or a couple w/out children (due to CO rules). I can't have access to weapons, drugs, or alcohol (you can have weapons & alcohol I just can't get to them). My family would probably stay in CO until I moved out as we have our houses to think about & I want to burden someone as little as possible.
Once I am established w/a probation officer I should be able to move into my own place - I am thinking a month at most.
That's just theory because there would still be the paperwork end, the interstate compact, etc... Realistically we are looking at Spring if this is the route we go.
Knowing CO & my county in particular is one of the most restrictive in the nation regarding SOs I would assume once I am established I could be with my family under the laws of NH. (anyone?)
My girlfriend & I still want to move outside the country & have actually found places I can go & be safe (a guy with a similar case as mine in my group just ran to **** where he has family - he is free & clear) - we just don't have the money & she is very timid about it (understandable)... & if for some reason my info is wrong & I am extradited back to the US I would spend a good 20 to life in prison.
We have looked at Puerto Rico (I would still be on probation - but their age of consent laws would have meant I would not have ever been arrested therefore my life would hopefully be a lot more simple there), Southern Colorado (a lot of our problems would end if we were in another county), & Maine. Maine - because land is so cheap - I have found large chunks of forest for $500/acre some even less. To a lesser extent - Texas, for the same reason as ME & because from what I have been told my particular case & the amount of brainwas err... therapy I have done (far exceeding TX mandates) would allow a pretty "normal" life.
NH is still at the top of my list for US states solely for the FSP. I found 70 acres in Carroll county for $40k - so if anyone has info on that area regarding covenants, codes, wells, jobs, etc???
I have learned a lot of new job skills as a result of being locked out of a lot of jobs - I can weld, I have a CDL class A permit, I am about 300hrs away from being able to become a certified traffic control supervisor (guy who puts cones on the road & ruins everyones day) - a $60k/yr job with our city or state ($11/hr w/the private company I work for now).
We still have our apparel business but it has gone to sh!t because of this case - but we own everything & are debt free with it. I am a killer bartender but am not allowed to work in retail or the rest/bar industry in CO, I can teach Martial Arts (I assume only to adults)... but these are details to discuss later.
I would like to know exactly what NH rules/restrictions are for SOs, if anyone is willing to be my "sponsor", where to find cheap land that can support a homestead, small for profit agriculture, & has owner financing (assuming I don't buy the 70ac mentioned), etc...
So I would like to open a discussion on what, when, where, who regarding all the details... I don't have regular access to the internet so please understand if I don't respond for a lengthy time.
Welcome back. ;D
Sex offender registration is covered under RSA 651-B (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/NHTOC/NHTOC-LXII.htm) here. RSA 632-A, listed on the same page, is where most of the specific sex offenses are laid out, if that's important.
If you remember, I and a handful of other local activists run the Citizens United to Reevaluate Sex Offender Registries (http://cursor.eprci.com/) group. (The site's a bit out of date, but once the new legislative season picks up, it will begin to be updated again.) We're also now officially the New Hampshire chapter of Reform Sex Offender Laws (http://www.reformsexoffenderlaws.org/).
I wasn't entirely clear on this "sponsor" thing—does that mean actually have to live with someone here, that you can't get your own place as soon as you get here?
The Sex Offender laws are miserable nationwide. They do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality (is that a word?).
I would strongly recommend against Maine. The land is cheap, but the taxes are higher than any other state, and the average income is pretty dismal. Also, the land you're thinking of would not likely be very safe, given the remoteness, and abundance of inbred hicks.
Hopefully someone can help you out in NH. Good Luck!
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on October 28, 2008, 11:11 AM NHFT
Welcome back. ;D
Sex offender registration is covered under RSA 651-B (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/NHTOC/NHTOC-LXII.htm) here. RSA 632-A, listed on the same page, is where most of the specific sex offenses are laid out, if that's important.
If you remember, I and a handful of other local activists run the Citizens United to Reevaluate Sex Offender Registries (http://cursor.eprci.com/) group. (The site's a bit out of date, but once the new legislative season picks up, it will begin to be updated again.) We're also now officially the New Hampshire chapter of Reform Sex Offender Laws (http://www.reformsexoffenderlaws.org/).
I wasn't entirely clear on this "sponsor" thing—does that mean actually have to live with someone here, that you can't get your own place as soon as you get here?
Just signed and read many stories. Glad to see people trying to change this and thanks for posting it here. I read the story of a man who went out to his backyard porch to feed his dog in the nude and two neighbor girls saw him and then begins a horror story of what occurred to him and his wife. >:(
Please do not come here. I say again, Please do not come here. Especially if you love the cause of the FSP and Limited Government.
Quite frankly, I do not want the FSP to help sex offenders move here. I cannot imagine a better way to get the people here to be INCREDIBLY HOSTILE to us.
Tomorrow's Newspaper Article:
Free State Project arranging Sex Offender Moves to NH
In order to reach their stated goal of moving 20,000 government hating, law-detesting people to New Hampshire, they are reaching out to sex offenders. On one Free-State Project related website, a man who was convicted of committing sexual assault on a minor was organizing help to move to New Hampshire. ___________, a mother of a young child who lives in Manchester, near Porcupine row on elm street says, "I don't know why they want to bring baby rapists to attack children! They should be marginalized politically!". The police chief has said that there is nothing that he can do legally to prevent the Free State Project from organizing an effort to move sex offenders to New Hampshire, but that when the 80% of offenders who recommit their crimes on children here, they will be caught and arrested.
In fact, there is an organized effort by members of the FSP to start a chapter of an organization called "Reform Sex Offender Laws Now!", which opposes "vindictive" punishment of child rapists and is concerned with the shame the rapists feel. _____________ of Protect our babies from kiddy diddlers, says "They do not have the right to talk about shame, they should imagine the shame that young victims feel after the vicious attacks of these predators. These attacks haunt children for the rest of their lives, and the predator DARES to be concerned about vindictiveness. These predators are evil and I cannot believe the Free State Project is supporting them".
____________ of the FSP denies having an official program to assist Child Predators moving to New Hampshire. He did not mention "unofficial programs".
A. Hack
Newspaper Reporter and Sensationalist
See also:
http://www.seacoastonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080203/NEWS/80203007
QuoteThey do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality
Minors cannot legally consent. As a result all such crimes are without consent.
Intent and Malice are considered in the guilty/not-guilty verdict of the individual charges.
In the famous words of Johnny Storm - "Flame on!"
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 02:01 PM NHFT
Please do not come here. I say again, Please do not come here. Especially if you love the cause of the FSP and Limited Government.
Quite frankly, I do not want the FSP to help sex offenders move here. I cannot imagine a better way to get the people here to be INCREDIBLY HOSTILE to us.
The "sex offense" in question was a statutory rape situation, and as much a victimless/consensual crime as smoking pot or failing to register one's vehicle with the government. I for one apply the principle of non-aggression
consistently, without regard to public perception of the particular consensual act in question.
And quite frankly I don't care what you want or whom you want the FSP to help, nor are you or anyone else in a position to tell someone not to move here.
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 02:10 PM NHFT
QuoteThey do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality
Minors cannot legally consent. As a result all such crimes are without consent.
State-defined bullshit. 2+2=5, too.
But, this debate over "minors" and "consent" has been had before, so I won't repeat myself. You can find it in the archives on the various forums.
Quote from: SpeedPhreak on October 27, 2008, 03:35 PM NHFT
For those that don't my current situation - I am a registered Sex Offender because I had a consensual relationship with a young woman not of "legal" age in my state. ...
Just ignore DigitalWarrior and people like him. I'm sure you're used to dealing with such douchebaggery, and worse, from the general population, so it should be no surprise that there are some people here on these forums who are going to behave in the same way.
What's important is that there are an awful lot of people here who
don't think and act like that, and do reject the concept of victimless/consensual "crimes" consistently. :)
While I am all for protecting children, I think it's dumb to make laws to prevent human nature when everything is consensual.
After the age of 13 or 14 (the age of puberty for most children) I think children should be able to consent if they wish to, so there should be no way the state can claim for a child they were raped if they wish to say they consented. Maybe there should be a test a person could take that demonstates that they are able to understand right and wrong, and how there choices effect them? I can tell you I was able to consent at the age of 8 or 9 because I understood things and was treated like a mini-adult and not a child. I was given a car at the age of 6 years old by my father who passed away. I was asked if I would like to sell the car to purchase a computer (back in 1989) and I thought it out logically that the car would possibly be no good by that age, and that even if it was it was it wasn't usable by me for another 8 years while a computer would be usable now. I am pretty sure that demonstates the ability to consent, or not to a exchange in thinking things through.
In California the law is that if the people are within 2 years age of eachother it is not against the law. So if a 16 year old boy or girl gets with a 18 year old boy or girl it's perfectly legal. But if a 15 and a 18 get together it is illegal, yet in High School you have 15 and 18 year olds going to school together, do you not expect there to be some time of engagement in sexual activities due to this?
Rape=Rape plain and simple... (Normally anyone under the age of 13 is unable to consent to anything as they do not have the understanding of life and death, and real, or unreal in most cases. And in the case of sexual activity, until puberty it would not be "wanted" so there would never be consent.)
Statutory rape is the government deciding what is acceptable/unacceptable when 2 people agree to something, it's the same thing as prostitution being illegal it's the "morals" of most of society being pushed upon the masses for the "greater good". These same people see nothing wrong with water torture, or people being imprisoned without charges or a trial so they don't get to decide what is right or wrong because there "morales" are not up to my standard.
That being said I think rapists should be locked up and the key thrown away, especially kiddie (I.E. prepuberty) rapists but not people who act in a consensual encounter.
I wasn't in Speeds shoes so I am not going to judge him, but if it was a consensual encounter and the young lady was over the age of 13 and had reached puberty then I would support him in standing up to have his sex offender status removed. People who pee out in public get sex offender status in some places, so I would be a sex offender because I once peed outside a business when I was like 10 years old.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on October 28, 2008, 11:11 AM NHFT
Welcome back. ;D
Sex offender registration is covered under RSA 651-B (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/NHTOC/NHTOC-LXII.htm) here. RSA 632-A, listed on the same page, is where most of the specific sex offenses are laid out, if that's important.
If you remember, I and a handful of other local activists run the Citizens United to Reevaluate Sex Offender Registries (http://cursor.eprci.com/) group. (The site's a bit out of date, but once the new legislative season picks up, it will begin to be updated again.) We're also now officially the New Hampshire chapter of Reform Sex Offender Laws (http://www.reformsexoffenderlaws.org/).
I wasn't entirely clear on this "sponsor" thing—does that mean actually have to live with someone here, that you can't get your own place as soon as you get here?
Thanks J
yes the "sponsor" thing - the way my lawyer describes it at my current "stage" - is that I would have to have a job lined up & have a "reason" for going... he explained that the easiest reason would be because I am going to live w/my family/friend/biz partner to work at this or that.
once I am accepted into NH I would then be governed by the NH probation rules - I am assuming I can live alone/w/my family (which is what we have been trying to do for over a year now... but will read up on the statutes for sure (not going to jump out of the fry pan into the fire).
Thanks for the tip on Maine... NH is #1 for the sole fact of the FSP. The other locations are simply alternatives due to cost & family conditions.
Most of my savings are gone - this has cost us 20k & rising at the rate of about 1300/mo if you factor in having to pay separate living expenses for me not being able to live in our house, the rest of my "obligations" & quarterly polygraphs... & as mentioned my business is pretty much gone (down to grossing approx 12k/yr)... so regardless of a sponsor/reason - I would probably need this kind of help anyway.
I understand it can take several months to actually do the paperwork - but can be pushed threw in a month... depends on how well they like you - they don't like me... I challenge AOC, legality, morality, etc... regularly (a reason my lawyer thinks I am not home yet regardless of my "progress")... so if I had this person today & submitted the paperwork tomorrow it would be anywhere from Dec till June... no way of telling.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on October 28, 2008, 03:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: SpeedPhreak on October 27, 2008, 03:35 PM NHFT
For those that don't my current situation - I am a registered Sex Offender because I had a consensual relationship with a young woman not of "legal" age in my state. ...
Just ignore DigitalWarrior and people like him. I'm sure you're used to dealing with such douchebaggery, and worse, from the general population, so it should be no surprise that there are some people here on these forums who are going to behave in the same way.
What's important is that there are an awful lot of people here who don't think and act like that, and do reject the concept of victimless/consensual "crimes" consistently. :)
WOW DW - that is honestly the 2nd most hostile response I've had since all of this. Everyone that I explain the situation too is behind me regardless of their political view. The only person that was worse was a guy I worked with - we had an argument - he got on line & found my info & told everyone at the shop trying to get me fired - everyone at the shop said they were behind me & he was eventually "shunned" into quitting - even his brother who works there is behind me. Former students & their parents still want me to be their instructor (even though I can't) & extended family on all sides still want me in their lives & their children's- go figure.
However to each his own.
In the mean time I have turned my home/shop (I currently live in a warehouse) into a meeting place & show liberty DVDs to people about once a month. This is to friends & their friends but I was thinking of running an ad on craigslist or something.
Open for discussion/suggestion/ideas.
Quote from: ColdSoul on October 28, 2008, 03:43 PM NHFT
While I am all for protecting children, I think it's dumb to make laws to prevent human nature when everything is consensual.
After the age of 13 or 14 (the age of puberty for most children) I think children should be able to consent if they wish to, so there should be no way the state can claim for a child they were raped if they wish to say they consented. Maybe there should be a test a person could take that demonstates that they are able to understand right and wrong, and how there choices effect them? I can tell you I was able to consent at the age of 8 or 9 because I understood things and was treated like a mini-adult and not a child. I was given a car at the age of 6 years old by my father who passed away. I was asked if I would like to sell the car to purchase a computer (back in 1989) and I thought it out logically that the car would possibly be no good by that age, and that even if it was it was it wasn't usable by me for another 8 years while a computer would be usable now. I am pretty sure that demonstates the ability to consent, or not to a exchange in thinking things through.
In California the law is that if the people are within 2 years age of eachother it is not against the law. So if a 16 year old boy or girl gets with a 18 year old boy or girl it's perfectly legal. But if a 15 and a 18 get together it is illegal, yet in High School you have 15 and 18 year olds going to school together, do you not expect there to be some time of engagement in sexual activities due to this?
Rape=Rape plain and simple... (Normally anyone under the age of 13 is unable to consent to anything as they do not have the understanding of life and death, and real, or unreal in most cases. And in the case of sexual activity, until puberty it would not be "wanted" so there would never be consent.)
Statutory rape is the government deciding what is acceptable/unacceptable when 2 people agree to something, it's the same thing as prostitution being illegal it's the "morals" of most of society being pushed upon the masses for the "greater good". These same people see nothing wrong with water torture, or people being imprisoned without charges or a trial so they don't get to decide what is right or wrong because there "morales" are not up to my standard.
That being said I think rapists should be locked up and the key thrown away, especially kiddie (I.E. prepuberty) rapists but not people who act in a consensual encounter.
I wasn't in Speeds shoes so I am not going to judge him, but if it was a consensual encounter and the young lady was over the age of 13 and had reached puberty then I would support him in standing up to have his sex offender status removed. People who pee out in public get sex offender status in some places, so I would be a sex offender because I once peed outside a business when I was like 10 years old.
I agree & thank you too.
I won't go into particulars in this thread as they are posted else where.
Thank you J'raxis for always saying what I would if I could write and articulate myself as well as you.
People hear sex offender and they go crazy. Some don't consider that some "sex offenders" have not even done anything with a minor just accused for a variety of reasons, with no recourse to defend themselves. Like the man's story I referred above. I love being nude personally, but in this fascist police state I could be labelled a sex offender with the wrong set of circumstances.
I have a 19 year old pretty messed up half brother. He lied about his age to a girl and looked older too because he was balding in his teens. To make a long story short this woman, 6 years older than him, had sex got pregnant and had his child all before he reached the age of consent (18). Luckily my family didn't try to harm her for doing this and we understood that it was not rape in anyway shape or form. If the sexes were reversed this could have been someone who's life was ruined.
Think about it, a man is 18 and has sex with his 16 years old girlfriend. This is not a sex offender. Women can be very mature in their late teens and have relationships with older men, many young girls lie about their age. Sex offenders would be for those adults who abuse and rape young children and each set of circumstances should be considered. Also some kids make things up and lie too. I have nothing but contempt for those who hurt and sexually abuse children but many innocent people are being victimized by the state this must end.
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 02:10 PM NHFT
QuoteThey do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality
Minors cannot legally consent. As a result all such crimes are without consent.
Intent and Malice are considered in the guilty/not-guilty verdict of the individual charges.
Excuse me but I beg to differ when I was 17, 16, 15 and so on I was having consenting relationships.
First, I did not tell him not to move here. I begged him not to move here as part of the FSP because of the potential PR disaster. I have the right to beg and plead for what I perceive to be the good of the FSP. I was not being hostile. I was illustrating what the terrible reporter named "A. Hack" might write as an inflammatory article.
Statutory rape law is a result of both the poor reasoning of children and the power imbalance between adults and children. I find it hard to believe that you are seriously saying that a 13 year old girl has the reasoning ability to risk death or parenthood. STDs can be a death sentence. Pregnancy is life-altering to say the least. Value judgments change over time, and children make WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD "decisions". In addition the possible power imbalance between an adult and a child is substantial. It strikes me to be similar to a mugger saying "he willingly handed over his wallet". Children can be intimidated, threatened, or even peer pressured into activities that are very dangerous.
(http://blogs.msdn.com/blogfiles/jasonlan/WindowsLiveWriter/13yearoldGirlcrownedUSTextingChampion_10C76/image%7B0%7D%5B1%5D.png)
She is 13
Of course if a kid lies about his/her age, then the person had no intent and should be found innocent by a jury. Prostitution is an agreement between adults.
I was not speaking about this man's criminal act. Maybe it would be better if the age of consent, through our representatives in the legislature, was changed in the law to better reflect reality, but there certainly is a period where children are children and not adults. That said I have heard of a few instances where the laws are responsible for terrible convictions.
I still would plead that he please not move here.
Quote from: lastlady on October 28, 2008, 04:49 PM NHFT
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 02:10 PM NHFT
QuoteThey do not take into account intent, malice, or consensuality
Minors cannot legally consent. As a result all such crimes are without consent.
Intent and Malice are considered in the guilty/not-guilty verdict of the individual charges.
Excuse me but I beg to differ when I was 17, 16, 15 and so on I was having consenting relationships.
In all honesty, I think that an argument could be made that if a person is allowed to pilot 1000 pounds of metal at 65 miles an hour, they can make life and death decisions. At 15, I doubt any significant fraction of your peers could be said to make life altering decisions well.
That said, you could not legally consent (depending on where you lived and the circumstances).
None of that matters of course in the court of public opinion. It would be bad if the FSP and sex offenders were tied together in peoples minds. It sure would motivate me not to talk about my FSP affiliation during my next State legislature run.
Sorry to exagerate your post DW.
I feel you make a good point on the PR point & can sympathize with your feelings. I agree w/force/coercion/& POSSIBLE power inbalance & I assure you & anyone else that this is not an issue in MY case (& I have discovery materials to prove this).
I would really like to avoid getting off topic w/my intentions of this post & will gladly debate/argue/flame in a seperate post... so I will simply say there should be NO age of consent beyond puberty - everyone is different & every situation is different, every case needs to be handled individually. Some 13yo can consent some 20yo can't. But the scientific fact remains a human body is ready for intercourse after puberty (& if you believe in creation - why would a perfect creator create puberty at 12-16 & not 18?).
If this is a discussion we want to have - please start a seperate post. Sorry DW - I am moving "somewhere" & NH is at the top of my list until I move to a country where I won't be a "criminal".
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 02:01 PM NHFT
Quite frankly, I do not want the FSP to help sex offenders move here. I cannot imagine a better way to get the people here to be INCREDIBLY HOSTILE to us.
Hate to say it, but this post makes me feel "INCREDIBLY HOSTILE" to
you.
If libertarians can't help out the victims of a government gone mad with the intoxication of its own power, who can? What other compromises and outright hypocrisies are you willing to stoop to as a result of your "delicate sensibilities"? Possessed of such (I calls 'em as I sees 'em . . .) cowardice, how effective do you think you could be in public office?
As far as moving here, I think that you should know that I have seen our papers go on and on about the menace of child molesters, while naming names and showing faces. It might be that way everywhere, but I know I have seen it here.
For instance todays Nashua Telegraph:
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081028/NEWS01/310289939
I remember there was one convict who was moving from another state and the papers covered it like flies on shit.
Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.
Quote from: Romak on October 28, 2008, 07:13 PM NHFT
Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.
haha! I was just thinking about where I could spend more time nude with freedom and ease. I live in Los Angeles and as of a few years ago all the public nude beaches went away, have to go out of Los Angeles county to access anything. But if I have the means to go to Jamaica honestly I'd rather be in New Hampshire. Thanks for the thought though.. :)
Quote from: lastlady on October 28, 2008, 08:17 PM NHFT
Quote from: Romak on October 28, 2008, 07:13 PM NHFT
Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.
haha! I was just thinking about where I could spend more time nude with freedom and ease. I live in Los Angeles and as of a few years ago all the public nude beaches went away, have to go out of Los Angeles county to access anything. But if I have the means to go to Jamaica honestly I'd rather be in New Hampshire. Thanks for the thought though.. :)
You could do it here in NH but it's rather cold. You'll have to have something to keep you warm. :)
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 06:16 PM NHFT
As far as moving here, I think that you should know that I have seen our papers go on and on about the menace of child molesters, while naming names and showing faces. It might be that way everywhere, but I know I have seen it here.
For instance todays Nashua Telegraph:
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20081028/NEWS01/310289939
I remember there was one convict who was moving from another state and the papers covered it like flies on shit.
Thanks for the heads up - that is a little more "in your face" than here in CO - they only do that if the victim is truly a child or you are a sexually violent predator.
However I am not too worried about it - I have a pretty thick skin. Anywhere is going to have challenges - might as well be around people whos views on life are inline with mine. The most important thing to me is being with my daughter who I haven't seen in almost 2 years for no reason what so ever.
--------------------
Nevermind on Bartlett - the property I found is really nice - but has no road access or easments... only a hiking trail. It is actually the north face of Bartlett Mountain. Which would be way cool - but I don't have that luxury.
I am looking for acreage where I can have a little livestock (sheep, goat, bison [in NH?], chickens) a large organic garden, 100% off grid, etc etc. Here in CO that will take a min of about 50 ac. Also I would like some elevation - somewhere where the water table is at least 50 ft deep. $1000k or less per acre w/seller financing. - so if anyone knows of a parcel??
I am still interested in doing some of my original ideas (co-op, communal living, etc..) posted in other threads... just need the right property.
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 05:05 PM NHFT
Statutory rape law is a result of both the poor reasoning of children and the power imbalance between adults and children. I find it hard to believe that you are seriously saying that a 13 year old girl has the reasoning ability to risk death or parenthood. STDs can be a death sentence. Pregnancy is life-altering to say the least. Value judgments change over time, and children make WEIRD WEIRD WEIRD "decisions". In addition the possible power imbalance between an adult and a child is substantial. It strikes me to be similar to a mugger saying "he willingly handed over his wallet". Children can be intimidated, threatened, or even peer pressured into activities that are very dangerous.
I understand completely. I used to be a hardcore about this subject for this very reason much like you come across right now. Obviously I'm a voluntaryist and I don't believe in arbitrary lines drawn by bureaucrats, but the basic principle you speak of here is still true. Meanwhile we do live in a world where bureaucrats draw arbitrary lines and enforce them with threats of violence. Even in that world, there should be a BIG difference between a true child molestation and the much smaller crime of having sex with someone slightly under the legal age of consent but still clearly beyond puberty. Common sense needs to be applied. In many countries there will be repercussions, but much less severe than how a child molestation case is treated. I don't think such a case where no child is involved deserves some kind of permanent label of sex offender along with all the ostracism that goes with it.
It sounds to me like that common sense was in fact applied in SpeedPhreak's case by his friends and co-workers which inclines me to think his case was blown all out of proportion by the hysteria. He seems to have had a lapse in judgment and is paying for that, but I don't see justification for the kind of ostracism that you are suggesting.
Quote from: lastlady on October 28, 2008, 04:45 PM NHFT
I have a 19 year old pretty messed up half brother. He lied about his age to a girl and looked older too because he was balding in his teens. To make a long story short this woman, 6 years older than him, had sex got pregnant and had his child all before he reached the age of consent (18). Luckily my family didn't try to harm her for doing this and we understood that it was not rape in anyway shape or form. If the sexes were reversed this could have been someone who's life was ruined.
And nowadays she'd get in as much trouble as if it
were reversed. Have you noticed how over the past couple years or so, there's been this sudden surge in news stories about female teachers having relationships with male students, and similar nonsense? The moral panic used to just be about creepy old dudes and little girls/boys, but all of a sudden the panic has strangely switched genders.
I'm usually not much into "conspiracy theories" without concrete evidence, but I am seriously beginning to believe this is all part of the ongoing plan by the State to destroy natural human relationships and alienate everyone from one another. (Read John Taylor Gatto's books if you don't know what I'm talking about. He talks about how the public school systems, child labor laws, secularization of society, &c., all serve this purpose. It's my theory that the whole pedophile panic, and a few other things, tie into it, too.)
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 28, 2008, 05:05 PM NHFT
(http://blogs.msdn.com/blogfiles/jasonlan/WindowsLiveWriter/13yearoldGirlcrownedUSTextingChampion_10C76/image%7B0%7D%5B1%5D.png)
She is 13
(http://westindian.us/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/Alisha_Dean.jpg)
This girl is 13, too.
http://www.wftv.com/news/16348047/detail.html
Thought this would be useful to cross-post back here:—
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 29, 2008, 10:08 AM NHFTI have changed my mind, and would like to say that I was wrong for suggesting that we not assist people convicted or accused of certain criminal acts. I have two reasons
First, as was pointed out to me, it is a slippery slope and how long until they in all seriousness declare the lot of us "Terrorists". While assisting some people might be turned around on us, it would be morally wrong to avoid the right action because it could be misinterpreted. To paraphrase Brother Kipling "If you can bear to hear the truth you've spoken twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools, yours is the Earth and everything that's in it and - which is more - you'll be a Man". I appreciate everyone that took the time to correct me.
Second, kind of like the legal principal of safe harbor for computer networks, we do not concern ourselves with filtering content, because if we did it in one case, we would have to do it in all. The FSP is a transportation medium, which hopefully carries far more good than bad...
Digital "belly full of humble pie" Warrior
I started the other thread so that this one could be used to discuss the move rather than all the crap law vs justice stuff, as the OP asked.
Quote from: error on October 29, 2008, 02:17 AM NHFT
Quote from: lastlady on October 28, 2008, 08:17 PM NHFT
Quote from: Romak on October 28, 2008, 07:13 PM NHFT
Last Lady if you like being nude so much take a trip down to Hedonism 2 in Jamaica, you'll have the time of your life.
haha! I was just thinking about where I could spend more time nude with freedom and ease. I live in Los Angeles and as of a few years ago all the public nude beaches went away, have to go out of Los Angeles county to access anything. But if I have the means to go to Jamaica honestly I'd rather be in New Hampshire. Thanks for the thought though.. :)
You could do it here in NH but it's rather cold. You'll have to have something to keep you warm. :)
Well when I'm in the Free State I will hopefully have something to keep me warm. ;)
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 29, 2008, 05:03 PM NHFT
I started the other thread so that this one could be used to discuss the move rather than all the crap law vs justice stuff, as the OP asked.
I know. I cross-posted your "I have changed my mind ..." post to hopefully stave off further debate and flaming, too.
Another article
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Sex+offender+hopes+for+fresh+start&articleId=fc97f0f7-2791-4e39-a45b-2cfff1f9e9c0
(http://www.unionleader.com/uploads/media-items/2008/october/o31perf.jpg)
MANCHESTER – A recently released state prisoner with a history of sex offenses has taken up residence in a Bridge Street rooming house.
Jonathan Perfetto, 34, says he is trying to get a "fresh start" at 195 Bridge St. after seven years in prison on child pornography charges.
"I just moved here. I don't want to get in trouble," he said.
His presence, however, has alarmed some city officials. Mayor Frank Guinta called Perfetto a "classic example" of someone who is likely to reoffend.
"There's got to be a better system than just allowing someone like this to come to Manchester, unannounced, without any preconditions," Guinta said.
Perfetto does not require supervision under state law because he maxed out his three- to seven-year prison sentence. His sentence ended Oct. 22, according to a Department of Corrections spokesman.
o31perf.jpg
"I just moved here. I don't want to get in trouble," said Jonathan Perfetto.
Records in Hillsborough County Superior Court show Perfetto twice failed to complete a sex offender treatment program. His primary therapist reported Perfetto was "not interested in or amenable to treatment at this time."
Perfetto himself has told reporters he fears he'll reoffend, particularly if he goes off his medication. He has claimed in court documents that he suffers from bipolar disorder and "anti-social personality disorder."
Perfetto has family in New Hampshire and is a former Manchester resident. He said he attended Central High School but did not complete his senior year because he was convicted of molesting a young relative and sent to the Youth Development Center.
His choice of housing in Manchester has made some officials uneasy. The rooming house is just a few blocks away from St. Joseph Regional Junior High School. Central High School is visible from the side entrance, a fact Perfetto seemed surprised to discover yesterday.
"Is that Central High School?" he asked while rounding the corner of Bridge and Ash streets. "They refurbished it!"
Perfetto said he found the rooming house with help from a "homeless hotline." The building already houses one other sex offender, according to the state's online registry.
The same house came under intense scrutiny last month, when a religious organization helped place a convicted child killer, Raymond Guay, in an apartment there. A public outcry spurred officials to relocate Guay to a federal halfway house in another state.
Alderman Jim Roy, whose ward includes the rooming house, said the Guay case was different because Guay "didn't have ties to the community and didn't want to be here." Perfetto, on the other hand, chose to live in Manchester.
"As much as I hate to say it, it's a free country," Roy said. "The way I look at it, he's paid his debt to society. He can go wherever he wants."
Manchester Police Lt. Scott Legasse said Perfetto has five days to register with the department as a sex offender.
"And if he doesn't, if he fails to follow the law, then he can be arrested," Legasse said.
Police in Concord had been keeping an eye on Perfetto after they discovered he was living in a parking garage near the State House. Officials there said he posed a risk to the public's safety.
"It's unusual to have someone released from state prison and not have some form of supervision," said Concord city prosecutor Scott Murray.
Perfetto pleaded guilty in March 2002 to 61 counts of child pornography possession. Prosecutors accused him of having dozens of illegal files on his computer, including some with names like "10rape," "preteen04," and "10cubaprostitute."
His record includes a conviction in 1993 for criminal trespassing and another in 1994 for simple assault. In 1998, he was charged with fondling a woman's breasts while she used a computer at the New Horizons shelter in Manchester.
Prosecutors dropped the charge.
Perfetto has admitted to other offenses, telling the Concord Monitor he was sentenced to the New Hampshire Hospital after touching a woman's chest in 1999. He wound up serving time in Merrimack County jail, he told the paper, because he fought with hospital staff over a peanut butter and jelly sandwich.
Prosecutors said Perfetto did not exhibit good behavior in the state prison.
Court papers cite him for 28 violations of prison rules or state law, including extortion, fighting, theft, disobeying corrections officers, destroying property and counterfeiting.
He also was accused of misbehaving while in the sex offender treatment program. Once, records show, he got in trouble for watching the Disney film, "Angels in the Outfield," which was deemed "inappropriate TV."
Perfetto said he is trying to stay out of trouble at his new home in Manchester. He said he "detours" around the schools when he travels through the neighborhood.
He answered a few questions yesterday but cut the interview short, saying, "I already lost a job opportunity because of all this (publicity)."
Quote from: SpeedPhreak on October 29, 2008, 08:52 AM NHFT
I am looking for acreage where I can have a little livestock (sheep, goat, bison [in NH?], chickens) a large organic garden, 100% off grid, etc etc. Here in CO that will take a min of about 50 ac. Also I would like some elevation - somewhere where the water table is at least 50 ft deep.
bison are not native to this area ... I bet it would be a struggle to make them happy
the land around here wants to grow trees not grass
Russe types this surrounded by a hundred acres of grass
Quote from: SpeedPhreak on October 29, 2008, 08:52 AM NHFT
I am looking for acreage where I can have a little livestock (sheep, goat, bison [in NH?], chickens) a large organic garden, 100% off grid, etc etc. Here in CO that will take a min of about 50 ac. Also I would like some elevation - somewhere where the water table is at least 50 ft deep.
bison are not native to this area ... I bet it would be a struggle to make them happy
the land around here wants to grow trees not grass
Wow there seems to be an echo in here. ;D
As to grazing animals, some people do raise them up here. However due to the climate you need to provide feed 6 months out of the year expensive unless you can produce and store it yourself. Productive farmland is at a premium.
Chickens, pigs and any of the faster growing animals are more practical for the small time farm. Harvestable size in 6 months.
whereas in certain places ... the bison can live through the winter with no aid at all
Menno was telling me that the ground is not nearly as fertile in general as some places, particularly the south and parts of the west. He claimed that grazing animals had to consume more volume of grass to meet their nutritional requirements. I dunno.
Something I will have to look into (grazing animals) - I want(ed) bison because they are nutritionaly superior... however those are minor details. Actually w/bison you need a herd of at least 15 to keep them happy. So I wouldn't do that until I had the space, time, experience, money for all that. Bison require less space per head than cattle but the fencing/corals/etc... need to be taller & stronger.
If I were to move onto land today I would build the house, next year get a large garden going & get a some chickens & goats. The next year add more crop land & another animal (sheep or pigs).
I've also toyed w/the idea of aquaculture. Lots of ideas - nothing is ever for sure until you start doing it you know?
Maybe I'll just grow trees :D
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on October 31, 2008, 10:03 AM NHFT
"As much as I hate to say it, it's a free country," [Alderman Jim] Roy said.
That pretty well sums it up . . .
It is easy and natural to go trees here in the Shire.
for strong fenceposts you could leave up the trees and connect the fencing to them :)
the market found out that generally grazing and farming are better done in the midwest and plains
the hills have returned to trees which you can harvest
I'm not sure if Russell realizes that the town he lives in was comprised almost completely of sheep farms at one time. A lot of logging took place also for railroad ties, but, most of the hills here were grazing.
actually the livestock I plan on keeping would be for personal use - except of course a bison herd if I do that.
I bet a berry crop would be a good commercial crop in NH though? Blueberries or Rasberries?
After perusing this post I'm feeling compelled to express myself too.
When anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want to do whatever I'm capable of to help get them back in good shape.
Is that what "social responsibility" is? Is that the "voluntary society" we ("I" speaking only for myself) seek?
As far as I'm concerned, I'm my brother's keeper. I fail as much as the next guy. Who honestly hasn't? That said, I'll repeat that when anyone, anywhere, reaches out for help, I want to do whatever I'm capable of to help get them back in good shape. That is what its about to me. If it isn't to you, I may not be interested and it's your loss. Sorry.
To me, that is what I feel the FSP is. If that is not what it is then I may be in the wrong place.
Some days I'm as shaky as a bowl of Jello yet other days I'm as sturdy as the Rock of Gibraltar. As far as this matter goes, I know little to help, but I care about this man and any reader of my words should too.
Praise in public, criticize in private.
I may not yet be there, but I will be soon... now you all can bitch at me for preaching (and from afar) but dammit, someone's got to do it.
Quote from: SpeedPhreak on November 02, 2008, 11:11 AM NHFT
actually the livestock I plan on keeping would be for personal use - except of course a bison herd if I do that.
I bet a berry crop would be a good commercial crop in NH though? Blueberries or Rasberries?
I justed landed in southwest Grafton where I found apples, pears and grapes and blueberries growing in my backyard. The hayfield, however, looks like a mildly neglected lawn when compared to what I was used to in northwest PA.
The Johnson sisters down the road grew enough clover to make delectable clover jelly, but mostly sell vegatables at their farmstand. The next farm is advertising pick-your-own pumpkins on their sign.
So I'd say think truck-farming rather than ranches and grain fields.
That said, on the trip to the wake for Sandy's lost youth yesterday I was struck by a seriously bucolic scene with a herd of very healthy looking cows (sorry, don't know breeds). I suspect they resort to importing feed from northern NY. You can't even buy straw around here, as several folks with an interest in straw-bale construction found out. So it can be done, but wil take a good chunk of capital to be successful.
Lumpy - plain, simple, & sincere... thanks.
jerry - some good news & some not so good news - especially since I REALLY want to build a strawbale house. thanks for the info though.
I never really planned on agriculture being my primary source of income - especially right off the bat. something like this over the course of a few years - property, off grid home, crops/livestock for personal use, crops/livestock as supplemental income - then see where it goes from there... if anywhere, you know.
grapes? anyone making icewine in the area?
Quote from: SpeedPhreak on November 02, 2008, 11:11 AM NHFT
I bet a berry crop would be a good commercial crop in NH though? Blueberries or Rasberries?
both
Speedfreak.. If you do move and need information on NH S.O. laws or real life experience with them here in NH, let me know. My husband has been registered for 12 years for a stat rape case from when he was 19. The girl said she was 17, but was really 95 days shy of 16 (age of consent here in NH). In anycase, 95 days is the difference between 7 felonies for 1 night of sex (yes! 7... each time they switched positions it was a 'new' charge) and a lifetime on the sex offender registry. It started as a private list for stat rape and then went to a public list. It started as once a year on your birthday and then went to twice a year. Next year, because my husband has 7 convictions from 1 night, he will be required to register 4 times a year, every 90 days. Yep, NH's a real winner when they consider a teenage consensual sex act the same as the guy who molested 7 gradeschool age kids on 7 separate occasions the same level offender (tier 3) has my husband. Unreal isnt it? Now we intend to fix this oversight in the law next session, but in the mean time... it is what it is and IT is a joke when it is applied so broadly and arbitrarily.
And a side note on malice and intent: it doesnt exist in this state for statutory rape convictions (nor does it in 33 out of our 50 states). The law is strict liability, aka. guilty for the act alone. There is no consideration of malice or intent. The last time this law was challenged to the NH SJC was in 2007, decision rendered in January State vs Martin Holmes and he LOST. The SJC said it was the legislatures job to create the defense. As if a defense in America should ever have to be created... we should all hang our heads in shame. That same year I tried to get a bill passed that would allow a reasonable mistake of age defense to be presented but it failed, essentially on the premise that minors needed this strict protection regardless of their lies, regardless of their fake ids to get into age restricted clubs etc...
As for probation and registration issues, they do have separate 'probation/parole' requirements that may affect you. Oftentimes no computers are allowed while on parole/probation and there can be additional restrictions on being with minors.. though I havent heard of someone in NH being told that he cannot live with his own children. You will want to make sure you research it well before, as you said jumping out of the frying pan and into the fire isnt taking a step up!
And lastly, I want anyone who is being wrongly oppressed by our government (who has the courage to speak out and fight against that oppression) on my team. Too many people in this country hide their heads in the sand and hope the storm will pass and someone else will fix it. Ignorance is bliss about sex offender laws (both convicting laws and registration laws) until it affects you or your family. When you're placed in the same boat as the 'monsters, aka child molesters' you realize you arent surrounded completely by monsters and child molesters. Some of those people don't belong. And as for the public and the media thinking you are 'suddenly supporting child molesters' because you take a stand on these issues... that's hogwash. Any issue you take a stand on you will be attacked by someone. The idiots will still be the idiots and the informed will still be the informed. Forget the idiots and worry about doing what's right and good for ALL of society.
Quote from: SpeedPhreak on October 27, 2008, 03:35 PM NHFT
I would like to know exactly what NH rules/restrictions are for SOs, if anyone is willing to be my "sponsor", where to find cheap land that can support a homestead, small for profit agriculture, & has owner financing (assuming I don't buy the 70ac mentioned), etc...
Perhaps, you could put together a web page with this information for others.
Laurie I fell for you & your husband.
I currently have to register 4x a year. I can live where ever as long as I don't have a direct view of a park or school. I can't go to restaraunts, movies, or anywhere else w/out a pre approved permission slip. I even have to do my shopping btwn 0300 & 0500.
anon - you are right.
I will start w/what I just found out -
In NH Felons CAN vote