Can't understand his name. Coop? An agent from SPCA came to talk to him about their horses. Agent didnt introduce or tell them who he was and was told to get off property. Police were called to scene and are in route. Him and Dan are going to stand their ground by the road and ensure that no one gets on the property without a search warrant. 456 Critchet (spelling?) Road Candia NH - caller said anyone who wishes to join them is welcome.
Hopefully some video comes of this
Cooper's at the Cop Shop. Hopefully she can get back to Porc411 when they come for her, and record them as well. Will be interesting to see how long it takes to get a search warrant.
Hopefully too the video will make it online.
Sounds like the place where Beth takes care of the horses. I wonder who sicced the SPCA on them??
Cooper was released without charges (no surprise there). Last message makes me think they didn't get a warrant. Hopefully there will be more details, and video.
UPDATES:
Cooper is the caller.
Called back to Porc411 - he recorded the officers - they consented. He informed them that they needed a search warrant and they wanted him to stop recording. He refused. They placed him in handcuffs and took him for the long ride to their HQ. Seems like they made the ride extended. Left him in the car, got him out of the car, removed cuffs, made him give name and DOB, gave him a "stern talking to" and let him go. He says he will be at the taproom tonight
The cops obviously had no idea who they were dealing with if they think their "stern talking to' is going to intimidate Cooper.
Geez, what a police state! Glad they let Cooper go.
Thank you so much for transcribing. ninja.
Brian has departed to track down the police chief and ponder aloud as to why his son was kidnapped. Cooper was awesome at the station, look forward to a call to Free Talk Live tonight.
Observations:
They cuffed Cooper after letting him hand the camera to Beth, who continued to record Cooper. "I don't need your consent, I have Cooper's" -Beth
They noticed Cooper's firearm after cuffing him. they handed it to the SPCA guy who proceeded to LOAD a
round into the chamber, then dropped the magazine. He then tossed it into the passenger seat.
They never took the camera.
They never booked Cooper, who elected to walk home (I picked him up) rather than accepting a ride from both the officer and the SCPA guy.
All parties knew they were being recorded, as Cooper told them so. It was only after discussion of a warrant that the officer changed his mind about the camera.
Thank you, those that took up my call for help in handling the video.
Cooper is busy getting it into the series of tubes.
Huh, why did they load his gun??
What the hell? Why was the SPCA concerned about their horses? I presume they take good care of them?
preliminary video report up at
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uSEmgtXIXRI
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 04, 2008, 01:38 PM NHFT
Huh, why did they load his gun??
He was a bit of an idiot. I don't know why the cop gave him a gun to fiddle with. He could have put hole in the Cop Car....That would have been fun.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 04, 2008, 01:38 PM NHFTHuh, why did they load his gun??
If you operate the slide on a semi-automatic, it loads a round from the magazine into the chamber.
The proper way to "clear" a pistol is to eject the magazine,
then operate the slide to look into the chamber and verify that it is empty (or eject what is there, if it is not).
Doing the slide first loads a round, then you eject the magazine and (if you know little enough about guns to do something like that), you proceed to treat it as an "unloaded" gun, and put a hole in something or someone, "accidentally."
Basically, it's a mistake indicative of extreme lack of knowledge in firearms safety. That idiot could have killed himself, the cop, or even someone important, like their unwilling passenger...
Joe
Quote from: drumnaked! on November 04, 2008, 02:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 04, 2008, 01:38 PM NHFT
Huh, why did they load his gun??
He was a bit of an idiot. I don't know why the cop gave him a gun to fiddle with. He could have put hole in the Cop Car....That would have been fun.
That would be hilarious the SPCA douche fiddling with the gun the cop handcuffing cooper and the SPCA dude puts a round in to the radiator.
Quote from: slim on November 04, 2008, 02:28 PM NHFTQuote from: drumnaked! on November 04, 2008, 02:10 PM NHFTQuote from: Kat Kanning on November 04, 2008, 01:38 PM NHFTHuh, why did they load his gun??
He was a bit of an idiot. I don't know why the cop gave him a gun to fiddle with. He could have put hole in the Cop Car....That would have been fun.
That would be hilarious the SPCA douche fiddling with the gun the cop handcuffing cooper and the SPCA dude puts a round in to the radiator.
On camera!
YouTube!
Joe
He may look like a young kid, easy to manipulate, but the guy's got some serious cojones to stand his ground against the cops. The cops should think twice if they ever decide to give Cooper any trouble in the future.
Good luck to ya'll Travis-folk and see you at Murphey's.
Looking forward to the video.
Maybe the cop handing a gun to the SPCA guy will get him in hot water. Either one of them.
Too bad he didn't shoot the car! :) Damn good thing he didn't shoot and kill someone! ::)
Good job to those involved.
Quote from: Puke on November 04, 2008, 02:40 PM NHFT
Maybe the cop handing a gun to the SPCA guy will get him in hot water. Either one of them.
With enough outcry, his peers will investigate the incident and find no wrong doing. ::)
With enough resources, Cooper could file charges for false arrest. The cop knew he had nothing to charge him with. Whether anything would stick, I haven't a clue.
Candia Police Department
603-483-2317
That is for the duty officer and same number for "animal control" officer.
I already called and I hope you will too. I'm complaining to them. This is insane.
Modification: I called and left a message for both the "duty officer" and the "animal control officer" in two separate calls. I'm still in MA so that is about all I can do right now. This is outrageous! PLEASE CALL GUYS!
Quote from: YixilTesiphon on November 04, 2008, 01:52 PM NHFT
What the hell? Why was the SPCA concerned about their horses? I presume they take good care of them?
We do.
The bureaucrats have some words on some magic paper (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XL/435/435-14.htm) which, if read, appear to say something about horses and shelter.
Quote435:14 Shelter Available. – Horses shall be provided either:
I. An adequately ventilated, dry barn with stalls of sufficient size so that the horse is able to lie down, and shall be provided adequate and suitable exercise in arenas, barn yards, paddocks or pastures; or
II. A roofed shelter, with at least 3 sides from November 1 through April 15, shall be provided for horses kept in paddocks or pastures, and said horses shall not be kept tied but shall be able to move around freely.
Source. 1985, 72:1, eff. July 1, 1985. 2003, 9:2, eff. April 22, 2003.
Quote...and said horses shall not be kept tied but shall be able to move around freely.
The same can not be said for the people that care for them, apparently.
So, you were arrested outside your own home for videotaping? If the cop doesn't want to be taped, he can leave. That's my policy on private property I have permission to record on (like mine) and for "public" property. Good on Beth for continuing to record!
Sounds like what happened to us in Keene today was pretty tame in comparison. (Josh and I threatened with arrest.)
The video is shocking. This cop actually comes right out and says that he and the SPCA goon have a "right" to come on their property whenever they want to inspect the horses' shelter.
Speaking of which, since this all started there, you should make your displeasure known to the New Hampshire SPCA (http://www.nhspca.org/), whose goons are running around with badges pretending to be law enforcement officers.
603-772-2921 ext. 111
cruelty@nhspca.org
Is the video available yet?
Quote from: Josh on November 04, 2008, 03:44 PM NHFT
Is the video available yet?
I just talked to Dan and it's being uploaded to YouTube now. Expect it posted shortly.
Rad. Thanks!
Quote from: error on November 04, 2008, 03:42 PM NHFT
Speaking of which, since this all started there, you should make your displeasure known to the New Hampshire SPCA (http://www.nhspca.org/), whose goons are running around with badges pretending to be law enforcement officers.
603-772-2921 ext. 111
cruelty@nhspca.org
So was the lethally dangerous and intrusive animal guy working for Candia's animal control or the SPCA?
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on November 04, 2008, 04:08 PM NHFT
So was the lethally dangerous and intrusive animal guy working for Candia's animal control or the SPCA?
He's clearly identified in the video as working for the SPCA. And wearing a badge on a chain around his neck.
In some places the SPCA is contracted to handle animal control issues where there is no animal control officer. Seems like that may be the case with this.
Here's a mugshot of the SPCA "officer."
Was this a douche from the ASPCA or SPCA?
I was reading some things on the ASPCA's website that is pretty gross.
ASPCA = SPCA
Quote from: Josh on November 04, 2008, 04:54 PM NHFT
ASPCA = SPCA
They always look so nice and heroic on Animal Planet... I guess REAL LIFE tells a far different tale.
They do some great work. Unfortunately, they also pull this type of shit on occasion.
Quote
From ASPCA's website
5.10 Bestiality
The ASPCA is opposed to bestiality, defined as any sexual contact with an animal by a human. The ASPCA believes that any sexual contact between humans and animals for the sexual gratification of any person is animal exploitation, regardless of the human perpetrators' beliefs or intentions.
I guess the ASPCA doesn't want humans engaging in sexual activity with animals but a dog humping my leg is OK with them.
Quote
3.6 Consumption of Dogs and Cats
Due to the status of dogs and cats in our society, the ASPCA is opposed to the consumption of these animals, either by human beings or by other animals.
I guess the ASPCA wants to change the actions of other animals so they never eat a dog or a cat and they would rather see people starve to death instead of eating a dog or cat. Eating dogs and cats would be a effective way to limit the pet population but I guess the ASPCA would rather see the dogs and cats killed in the government run pet death chambers and buried in a unmarked grave.
Quote
6.3 Hunting
Because there is no guarantee that wildlife taken in sport hunting will be killed outright or spared the distress of pursuit and possible wounding and escape, the ASPCA is opposed to hunting animals for sport, even if the animals killed in this way are subsequently consumed. The ASPCA does recognize that wildlife management may be necessary in situations where animal and human interests collide, but urges that management strategies be nonlethal wherever possible and never include avoidable suffering or distress.
ASPCA is against hunting and killing the animal even if it is used as food. It recognizes that wildlife needs to be managed but not killed I guess we should tranquilize them and take them off to a place where they can live breed and overpopulate the land then die from starvation because of the over population.
Yea these people sound really humane to me let animals starve to death and wreck the land.
Perhaps he is related to this Steve Sprowl, an investigator with the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(http://www.give-us-shelter.com/milliondogmarch/source/image/0150_investigator.jpg)
They fail to recognize that the bottom-of-the-barrel foods they feed in their shelters contain euthanized cats and dogs as a protein source.
Or, like PETA, they willfully ignore the facts to push their agenda. Either way, I can do without them.
Go Lauren Go!
Man these guys give fat people a bad name.
Video is finally up and is processing. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GpRt96un8T0
This is Brian. I'm home finishing up some work for a client because I was called away early by this incident. Cooper is holding signs for Joel tonight.
The video is kinda jerky and not pointed where it should be. And the recording was stopped before Beth could get the officer handcuffing Cooper. Practice will make this better, but Cooper and Beth were not looking for a fight today, just minding their own business when the SPCA guy came by.
Speaking of whom... Here's the info from his business card. Lots of calls please. If you would like to call this guy, please be polite but firm in your conversation or voice message. Let him know that our horses are valuable property to us and that we are taking excellent care of them no matter what their laws say.
Steven Sprowl, Manager, Field Services Division
Office: 603-772-2921 ext. 111, but I always get his voice mail. Might be more expedient to contact him on his cell: 603-674-9836.
And if you want to talk to the Candia PD, their number was posted before, but it can't hurt to post it again. 603-483-2318. The Chief of Police is Mike McGillen. I talked to him face-to-face for about a half hour this evening at the polling place in town. He apologized for the incident and seems like he wants to do the right thing. If you call him, please be polite but let him know that his officers need to know the law before they go arresting people. http://www.candianh.org/police.php
Yes, Lauren. That's the same guy. He was even wearing the same jacket today. He didn't have the bullhorn when he harassed us, though.
Illegal Arrest = Kidnapping?
And I mean Kidnapping in the literal legal sense...
Left a message for Steve on his cel - invited him on the show to explain what he was doing. :icon_pirat:
Wonder if he'll call back.
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on November 04, 2008, 05:27 PM NHFT
Perhaps he is related to this Steve Sprowl, an investigator with the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals(http://www.give-us-shelter.com/milliondogmarch/source/image/0150_investigator.jpg)
Now I know where all the animals go that get murdered in the government killing hotels...
This guy eats them all!
First, big congrats to Cooper and Beth for having the courage to take on two Blue Light Gang members in the middle of the woods. It's no easy task, as we're just not used to standing up for ourselves. Practice will make perfect, and with that in mind, some unsolicited suggestions:
Cooper's analysis at the end of the video is correct. You do not need consent to record bureaucrats, or anyone for that matter. If they claim they don't give consent, tell them you don't need consent as you are recording and you're on private (or public) property, and if they want to avoid being recorded, they should leave the vicinity. (This doesn't apply if you are on their private property or the property of an owner who doesn't want you recording.)
Beth: If you ever ask a cop "is there a law that says I..." they will always claim there is. Besides, you didn't consent to their laws, did you?
Tips on interacting with potentially violent bureaucrats:
http://freekeene.com/2008/10/15/principles-of-interacting-with-potentially-violent-bureaucrats-usually-cops/
I agree with Kira...Cooper was brave standing up to those guys. Kudos to Cooper and Beth!
Quote from: FTL_Ian on November 04, 2008, 06:45 PM NHFTIf you ever ask a cop "is there a law that says I..." they will always claim there is. Besides, you didn't consent to their laws, did you?
Asking "what is the RSA number for that?" works better (presuming you don't want to go into the consent issue), as chances are high that they don't know it, and it will put them on the defensive.
Joe
This world needs more Coopers.
those guys are annoying
So they didn't give Cooper a ticket or anything?
Nothing but a 'stern talking to' about cooperation.
Forgot to list the email address of the SPCA nonprofit'o-crat, Steve "Bullhorn" Sprowl: ssprowl@nhspca.org. The website: www.nhspca.org.
I'm another one who called. I was and still am hot about this. I think I'm more ripped than Cooper is about it and I haven't even met him yet.
Part of me wants to rip them new ones, but part of me knows better.
Ian is right about the consent stuff. These guys will soon learn what he means. They will try to goat you into it at every step.
I have it to these guys, I may have not reacted as well.
I called and left my concern with the Candia police.
You have to wonder what goes through these bureaucrats mind when they realize they just stepped on a rattler...
i had to remove and re-upload my second vid about this because of grabframe error
here are the commetns i had to delete in the process
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i'm so happy beth called the cop on that 'right to come on the proptery.' claim.
and cooper, way to stick up for the law, even when those who you pay to enforce it won't.
beth kept her head in a potentially dangerous situation. and coop dizzle is one brave motherfucker.
seriously, you have both performed heroically.
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So....the SPCA (which is not even a government organization that I know of) can get a warrant to search your property ??? How can a non governmental organization get a search warrant???
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In AZ they ave REDFLEX camera fraud... it's a private company that puts up cameras (traffic monitoring) EVERYWHERE and sends bills to the owners and claims it's them driving and they have done all kinds of BS... you know how it goes. I can't believe THAT is happening either.
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I can't believe these folks are cowards when facing a video camera. :3
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Yes; cowards and liars. Don't forget they are liars too.
I never cease to be amazed (though it's old hat) at how bad these thugs can be.
does this guy have a boss or corporate higher-up we can complain to?
I believe the police chief reports to the Board of Selectmen. But there is a complex maze of rules and reporting that goes from our little town to Concord and then to Washington.
Might not hurt to call the police chief or the board of selectmen. The chairman, Fred Kelley, fixes all of our cars and trucks and trailers and tractors. Which, right now, is quite a business for Fred.
As far as the SPCA, no more donations for them.
Quote from: drumnaked! on November 04, 2008, 05:31 PM NHFT
The Chief of Police is Mike McGillen. I talked to him face-to-face for about a half hour this evening at the polling place in town. He apologized for the incident and seems like he wants to do the right thing.
He is doing damage control, most probably. You should consider asking for a public apology from the offending officers. Making this more public helps discourage future retaliation.
I bet this is not the first incident of trying to scare young people with a handcuffed ride/kidnapping. I also wouldn't doubt the "Chief" is aware of the practice.
I would be seriously looking at a few things:
1) Do the actions of Steve Sprowell of the NHSPCA constitute impersonating an officer?
2) The actions of the arresting officer (to whit, handing a firearm to Sprowel in the course of an arrest) would seem to be a serious breach.
3) Does the arrest constitute false arrest under the law?
Both the officer and Mr. Sprowell should face serious disciplinary action, if not termination from employment for their actions.
I don't know if you want to pursue this, but this incident seems to qualify as a civil rights violation (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/color.htm) for which the federal government will prosecute the police officer shown in this video.
If you pursue this, the police officer could face as much as 10 years in federal prison (http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cid/civilrights/statutes.htm).
EDITED: I was wrong. For the violation of federal law I witnessed in this video, this police officer could face life in prison or even the death penalty, though anything more than 10 years seems unlikely.
QuoteTo file a color of law complaint, contact your local FBI office (http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm) by telephone, in writing, or in person. The following information should be provided:
• all identifying information for the victim(s);
• as much identifying information as possible for the subject(s), including position, rank, and
agency employed;
• date and time of incident;
• location of incident;
• names, addresses, and telephone numbers of any witness(es);
• a complete chronology of events; and
• any report numbers and charges with respect to the incident.
Just talked to Steve Sprowl, asked him if it was better to load or unload a handgun when if was handed to you. He said what? I said you tube shows him loading a handgun and offered suggestions on how to unload a handgun. He said, "We DID unload the handgun so mind your own business." and hung up.
:)
Yay Lauren!
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on November 05, 2008, 08:41 AM NHFT
Just talked to Steve Sprowl, asked him if it was better to load or unload a handgun when if was handed to you. He said what? I said you tube shows him loading a handgun and offered suggestions on how to unload a handgun. He said, "We DID unload the handgun so mind your own business." and hung up.
:)
So, do you think he fancies that you will "mind your own business" now? ;)
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on November 05, 2008, 08:41 AM NHFT
Just talked to Steve Sprowl, asked him if it was better to load or unload a handgun when if was handed to you. He said what? I said you tube shows him loading a handgun and offered suggestions on how to unload a handgun. He said, "We DID unload the handgun so mind your own business." and hung up.
:)
I guess Steve thinks everyone should stay in line, eyes forward, no looking around. We should also all respond "yes massa, what ever you say massa"
Quote from: slim on November 05, 2008, 09:01 AM NHFT
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on November 05, 2008, 08:41 AM NHFT
Just talked to Steve Sprowl, asked him if it was better to load or unload a handgun when if was handed to you. He said what? I said you tube shows him loading a handgun and offered suggestions on how to unload a handgun. He said, "We DID unload the handgun so mind your own business." and hung up.
:)
I guess Steve thinks everyone should stay in line, eyes forward, no looking around. We should also all respond "yes massa, what ever you say massa"
Right. You mind your business --while I just poke around your property.
Right. You mind your business --while I just poke around your property.
[/quote]
EXACTLY!
With these assholes, if the gun DID go off, you 2 would probably be dead now. That Incompitent assmunch should NOT touch guns if he doesn't know what he is doing. If the cops herd the gun go off they would revert to training and kill everybody around them. The assholes.
Quote from: grasshopper on November 05, 2008, 11:03 AM NHFT
With these assholes, if the gun DID go off, you 2 would probably be dead now. That Incompitent assmunch should NOT touch guns if he doesn't know what he is doing. If the cops herd the gun go off they would revert to training and kill everybody around them. The assholes.
No, if the cop were shot by the SPCA guy, Cooper would have been to blame and have been arrested for shooting a law enforcement officer.
So can someone show up at the SPCA man's house and demand to inspect his house (check to see that he isn't misusing milk crates or something), and if he refuses call the cops?
Quote from: ancapagency on November 04, 2008, 09:12 PM NHFT
I would be seriously looking at a few things:
1) Do the actions of Steve Sprowell of the NHSPCA constitute impersonating an officer?
2) The actions of the arresting officer (to whit, handing a firearm to Sprowel in the course of an arrest) would seem to be a serious breach.
3) Does the arrest constitute false arrest under the law?
Both the officer and Mr. Sprowell should face serious disciplinary action, if not termination from employment for their actions.
If you want to go after these guys beyond harassing phone calls, there is a way. It's going to take some work, but it's about the only way to hold these people accountable. Number one you will need to find specific laws that were broken. False Arrest/False Imprisonment are not crimes in some states, so the charge may be kidnapping. If a gun was involved then it becomes aggravated kidnapping.
Next you write that up as a criminal complaint (this needs to be a fact eye witness with direct knowledge). I can fax an example of a criminal complaint if you need one. Nothing special about them, need to be notarized and certified as true and correct. Take it to the prosecutor for the city/county. When he refuses to prosecute and throws it in the trash, then you file a criminal complaint against him. (referencing the NH law he violated, like shielding from prosecution) You can prepare this before you even go see him. Once he does, then you need to ask him when the grand jury meets next. If he won't answer, that's another crime, and you can go to the next attorney. If you capture this all on camera, It's would be even better.
When they meet next, take the sworn criminal complaints against the officer and the prosecutor and present them to the foreman of the grand jury, just as the BLG does when you break the law. This will get their attention.
I think there are plenty of charges here, chain of custody violations when he handed off Cooper's firearm, etc. They also violated your due process rights when he pointed his cruiser towards the police station instead of the nearest magistrate. The officer who gave you the stern talking to, he became an accessory fi you were not arrested by a police officer and were infact kidnapped, and you can include him if you want. Having the charges outlined against the entire BLG will show the grand jury the criminal enterprise working against you; Clearly demonstrating that you have no choice but to go directly to them, and they will take you very seriously. (and have no idea what to do with your complaint)
diggit
http://digg.com/politics/NH_Cop_arrests_Free_Stater_for_camcording
Updates?
I presume silence means they haven't come back with their "warrant".
This situation has already gotten them a whole bunch of unwanted negative publicity. Actually getting a warrant (if they even could) and going through with a search, just to find nothing, along with the videos already posted, will just get them a lot more negative publicity.
As a matter of strategy I would not attempt to block police officers executing a search warrant, even if they are completely in the wrong. This is just a good way to get yourself arrested or killed for no good purpose. Much better to simply publicize what it is they're doing and let their actions speak for themselves in the court of public opinion.
Quote from: error on November 06, 2008, 01:29 PM NHFT
As a matter of strategy I would not attempt to block police officers executing a search warrant, even if they are completely in the wrong. This is just a good way to get yourself arrested or killed for no good purpose. Much better to simply publicize what it is they're doing and let their actions speak for themselves in the court of public opinion.
Agreed. I had a brain fart on that one. Still pisses me off. It's insane.
Brad Jardis pointed me to this:—
Quote105:18 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/VII/105/105-18.htm) Special Deputies. – Any officer or agent of any incorporated society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, upon being designated in writing for that purpose by the sheriff of any county in this state, may, within such county, make arrests and bring before any court or magistrate having jurisdiction offenders found violating the provisions of this subdivision.
So was this SPCA goon actually a government agent?
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on November 06, 2008, 02:04 PM NHFT
Brad Jardis pointed me to this:—
Quote105:18 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/VII/105/105-18.htm) Special Deputies. – Any officer or agent of any incorporated society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, upon being designated in writing for that purpose by the sheriff of any county in this state, may, within such county, make arrests and bring before any court or magistrate having jurisdiction offenders found violating the provisions of this subdivision.
So was this SPCA goon actually a government agent?
No. The SPCA is a private charitable organization. Perhaps a "corporation", but certainly NOT govt. They are entangled however with the state govts on deep levels throughout the US.
He was at some point deputized. He's basically a private animal control officer with all the powers of a Sheriff.
HOWEVER: Being that's he's still acting on behalf of a private company, there may be alternate avenues of recourse should things get worse. I don't know the details, but it would seem that dealing with a private company would work differently than dealing with govt.
Here's an update. Steve Sprowl, the SPCA investigator, finally called me back today and said that all he wanted to do is to check out the sheds as required by law. I assured him that our very expensive racehorses were well taken care of. I explained that the "Animal Cruelty Officer" from the town next door visited a couple months ago and reminded me that there was a "law" that required shelter between November 15th and April 15th. I told the cop then that I was aware of that rule of theirs. Their law actually says November 1st. Of course, I was supposed to be aware of this law by the mere fact that I was born?
For you who might not know about horses, they were around long before humans could give them shelter. The fact that they are with us today is testament to the fact that they don't really need us to survive the cold winters. Horses are amazing at growing hair when they need a sweater, and shedding it when they don't. Believe me, those hairy beasts shed like crazy in the summer!
The only difference between a horse kept in a warm barn and an outside horse is that the outside horse needs more calories to keep warm. They will be warm, they just need to eat more. We "free-feed" our horses, which means there's always a big round bale of hay that they have access to. So they can eat as much as they want, whenever they want.
Put these two facts together and you will see that building shelters for the horses just makes economic sense. The cost of a shelter will be paid for very quickly in the reduced feed requirement. We would normally have shelters finished long ago, but since we just moved here, there were other priorities (like keeping the hairless apes warm for the winter) that pushed back the horse shelter plan.
But we will have the shelters finished by the end of this weekend. Mr. Sprowl asked if he could come over next week. I told him that he is free to visit to see whatever he can see from the street. I could be there to point out where the sheds are, and that the horses are being well cared-for. I asked if there was someone in his office who might be kind enough to give us some pointers on the unique aspects of New Hampshire weather or pests that we might be unaware of. Instead of offering me someone from the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, he pointed me to the New Hampshire State Veterinarian's office!
But no one who tries to get their way at the barrel of a gun will set foot on my property without my permission or a search warrant. And the latter will open up a whole new can of whoop-ass!
Quote from: Josh on November 06, 2008, 04:47 PM NHFT
He was at some point deputized. He's basically a private animal control officer with all the powers of a Sheriff.
HOWEVER: Being that's he's still acting on behalf of a private company, there may be alternate avenues of recourse should things get worse. I don't know the details, but it would seem that dealing with a private company would work differently than dealing with govt.
Mr. Sprowl told me that he was a cop for 25 years before joining the SPCA. He also said that he could be deputized by the sheriff, which would give him the ability to "detain and arrest citizens". He said that as if he was not under that situation now.
Good for you, Brian!
Quote105:18 Special Deputies. – Any officer or agent of any incorporated society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, upon being designated in writing for that purpose by the sheriff of any county in this state, may, within such county, make arrests and bring before any court or magistrate having jurisdiction offenders found violating the provisions of this subdivision.
If he's not acting in that capacity now, then he should feel free to NEVER wear that badge around his neck again.
Quote from: brian.travis on November 06, 2008, 04:56 PM NHFT
Here's an update. Steve Sprowl, the SPCA investigator, finally called me back today and said that all he wanted to do is to check out the sheds as required by law. I assured him that our very expensive racehorses were well taken care of. I explained that the "Animal Cruelty Officer" from the town next door visited a couple months ago and reminded me that there was a "law" that required shelter between November 15th and April 15th. I told the cop then that I was aware of that rule of theirs. Their law actually says November 1st. Of course, I was supposed to be aware of this law by the mere fact that I was born?
For you who might not know about horses, they were around long before humans could give them shelter. The fact that they are with us today is testament to the fact that they don't really need us to survive the cold winters. Horses are amazing at growing hair when they need a sweater, and shedding it when they don't. Believe me, those hairy beasts shed like crazy in the summer!
The only difference between a horse kept in a warm barn and an outside horse is that the outside horse needs more calories to keep warm. They will be warm, they just need to eat more. We "free-feed" our horses, which means there's always a big round bale of hay that they have access to. So they can eat as much as they want, whenever they want.
Put these two facts together and you will see that building shelters for the horses just makes economic sense. The cost of a shelter will be paid for very quickly in the reduced feed requirement. We would normally have shelters finished long ago, but since we just moved here, there were other priorities (like keeping the hairless apes warm for the winter) that pushed back the horse shelter plan.
But we will have the shelters finished by the end of this weekend. Mr. Sprowl asked if he could come over next week. I told him that he is free to visit to see whatever he can see from the street. I could be there to point out where the sheds are, and that the horses are being well cared-for. I asked if there was someone in his office who might be kind enough to give us some pointers on the unique aspects of New Hampshire weather or pests that we might be unaware of. Instead of offering me someone from the Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals, he pointed me to the New Hampshire State Veterinarian's office!
But no one who tries to get their way at the barrel of a gun will set foot on my property without my permission or a search warrant. And the latter will open up a whole new can of whoop-ass!
Fucking A right. Go Brian! 8)
I concur!
Quote from: Josh on November 06, 2008, 05:02 PM NHFT
Quote105:18 Special Deputies. – Any officer or agent of any incorporated society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, upon being designated in writing for that purpose by the sheriff of any county in this state, may, within such county, make arrests and bring before any court or magistrate having jurisdiction offenders found violating the provisions of this subdivision.
If he's not acting in that capacity now, then he should feel free to NEVER wear that badge around his neck again.
Wearing a badge when he's not actually a cop? Smack the thugs with their own laws:—
Quote104:28-a (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/VII/104/104-28-a.htm) False Personation. – A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if, not being a sheriff, deputy sheriff, state police officer, police officer of any city or town, or any other law enforcement officer or investigator employed by any state, country or political subdivision of a state or country, he purposely pretends to be or assumes to act as such law enforcement officer or investigator, or if he purposely requests any other person to assist him in any matter belonging to the duty of such law enforcement officer or investigator.
And if he does it again after 2009-01-01, it's a felony:—
Quote104:28-a (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/VII/104/104-28-a-1.htm) False Personation. – Any person who knowingly and falsely assumes or exercises the functions, powers, duties, or privileges incident to the office of sheriff, deputy sheriff, state police officer, police officer of any city or town, or any other law enforcement officer or investigator employed by any state, country or political subdivision of a state or country, or who wears or displays without authority any uniform, badge, or other identification by which such sheriff, officer, or investigator is lawfully identified, and with the intent to be recognized as such, shall be guilty of a class B felony.
I doubt that this would have happened in Grafton.
I see that I have some new heroes around. I'm with Kat; good for you, good for all of us; GREAT JOB!
It sure seems like J'raxis is right on as well. I'm sure you will have the support IF it gets to that point, but it looks like you are far smarter than that fake cop (not hard to be from the evidence I repeatedly see by cops).
Very glad am I that you are in NH. ;D
pick yer battles carefully lumpy...dont go frontal-charging machine gun nests!
i guess this advice could apply to everyone...
Quote from: DadaOrwell on November 06, 2008, 06:32 PM NHFT
pick yer battles carefully lumpy...dont go frontal-charging machine gun nests!
i guess this advice could apply to everyone...
I hear you and I agree wholeheartedly. Still frosts my ass but I stand (sit) corrected sir. Thanks :)
Quote from: brian.travis on November 06, 2008, 04:56 PM NHFT
Here's an update....
....And the latter will open up a whole new can of whoop-ass!
:clap:
it has been good how your whole gang stood up to the thugs
we should have know that spca guy was a donut eating thug
Not sure if this has been seen:
http://www.nh.gov/humane/documents/080327min.pdf (http://www.nh.gov/humane/documents/080327min.pdf)
Minutes of March 27 2008 of the NH Commissions on the Treatment of Animals
In Steve Sprowls own words: (bottom of Page 3 of the minutes)
The other problem is that we have very little authority in this state. Most investigators are not empowered to make arrests unless they are sworn in as deputies by a Sheriff Department. Most of the Sheriff Departments are not willing to swear in special deputies because of liability and insurance issues. Even if sworn, some do not have the qualifications to handle full investigations and have never been trained or are experienced in law enforcement. Steve proposes we should have the same set up here in NH as the Mass MSPCA does.
Page 4
NH could do the same if the Governor would appoint our agents as special auxiliary troopers, giving them the powers of arrest and search warrants and then we could be move valuable to our agencies and not have to get local PD's involved especially if they do not want to be involved. Presently it is hard to get a police involved and getting search warrants. Most Police Departments are concerned with the costs of seizing animals and holding animals for court and some have even refused to take on animal cases because of the costs.
Interesting and scary. Even if this guy had the full power of the law behind him, How am I supposed to know that? If he tried to arrest me, I might shoot his ass for not being a cop. This is very thin ice here.
Quote from: leetninja on November 04, 2008, 12:02 PM NHFT
Can't understand his name. Coop? An agent from SPCA came to talk to him about their horses. Agent didnt introduce or tell them who he was and was told to get off property. Police were called to scene and are in route. Him and Dan are going to stand their ground by the road and ensure that no one gets on the property without a search warrant. 456 Critchet (spelling?) Road Candia NH - caller said anyone who wishes to join them is welcome.
Hopefully some video comes of this
shit, sign me up.
What the doughnut eater said scared me too. My father said to me (and I kid you not) "One of the problems they have in New Hampshire is that the government has a hard time getting money". Yes, my father is equally as dangerous. I'm working on him but I don't expect any miracles. That usually only stirs up a bad afternoon or lengthy grumblings... I'll admit that I both enjoyed that sentence as well as felt like I was being waterboarded... that kind of thinking will get anyone waterboarded... eventually.
Bigger government, more power to tread, etc. This guy is still a cop and a dangerous one at that with the way he seems to think it's okay to spout off that bull.
I'm just reminded of the old joke:
"Mr. Policeman, would you get my cat down from that tree?"
BANG!
Flop.
Hello Ladies and Gents. I have been following this topic via another board ( Hi Doobie!) and I went so far as to email the NHSPCA and ask them flat out id the investigator was sworn by the Rockingham County Sheriff. I got a short, terse EMAIL back from the investigator himself that they were not answering questions from unknown people at this time. My response was that since my wife and I donate to the NHSPCA ( or we used to they no longer are on our charitable giving list ) I should be able to get an answer.
If I were one of the parties involved here, I would be down at the nearest court pressing charges for impersonating an officer against Mr. Sproul. I would be calling the cop as a witness, and if he declined to appear I'd sue him for false arrest.
Good luck and thanks for standing up for all of our rights.
okay, here are a few things i'd like to add here:
#1 how to legally record cops with no risk (reasonable) of conviction:
check to see if the camera you have now, or the camera you plan to get, has audio adjustment or has the ability to use an external (attachment) microphone. practice muting or turning off the audio, so you can do it quickly and without having to search for the correct switch/button/etc... if an officer (or anyone else) tells you to stop recording, switch off the audio and make them aware they are no longer being audio recorded. video recording alone does not violate the law. audio recording without permission is considered "eves dropping, wiretapping, or spying"; however, it does not apply to video.
i would also suggest the following: put up a visible and readable sign around the entrance or front door of your property that resembles the following (taken strait from a government building):
(http://api.ning.com/files/lbMdXFBd-wjQaSFCCV4dmYv6UhaXzeDS92ukD7D8XEv9EnUqy0lFTwEgjGPhhU16u*JYvfdFxDPSdYRx9Dha9K4xVSA*SdEz/no_privacy_justified.jpg?width=500&height=375)
and, if you're feeling bold (though this can result in arrest, but less of a chance than audio recording from the camera) call porc 411, get the exchange on that, then match up that audio with your video later.
#2. i've seen situations like this before, and first hand. the meter reader (the guy who reads the meter at my parent's home to figure out our power use for the month) noticed a large increase in our power use in the barn when we finished remodeling the upstairs into an apartment, and i moved in. they alerted the police of this increase, and my folks have since been in a legal battle with the city because some of the changes made, and my living there for 4 months right after college, violated some building codes. so, at this point, all city workers and even private company employees who do anything at your home are informants. if they see something even slightly odd (or make up something odd), they will tell the cops. which leads me to....
#3. something the look forward to with the obama administration:
"The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation's challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start."
and from his chief of staff's "new patriot act" proposal:
It's time for a real Patriot Act that brings out the patriot in all of us. We propose universal civilian service for every young American. Under this plan, All Americans between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five will be asked to serve their country by going through three months of basic training, civil defense preparation and community service. ... Here's how it would work. Young people will know that between the ages of eighteen and twenty-five, the nation will enlist them for three months of civilian service. They'll be asked to report for three months of basic civil defense training in their state or community, where they will learn what to do in the event of biochemical, nuclear or conventional attack; how to assist others in an evacuation; how to respond when a levee breaks or we're hit by a natural disaster. These young people will be available to address their communities' most pressing needs.
Quote from: neggy on November 07, 2008, 08:44 PM NHFT
If I were one of the parties involved here, I would be down at the nearest court pressing charges for impersonating an officer against Mr. Sproul. I would be calling the cop as a witness, and if he declined to appear I'd sue him for false arrest.
It is possible .... they would just make him an "officer" and he can have his fun again.
It still seems like an unusual interpretation of the law to say you must get permission. It seems like even a bit of a stretch to say to have to tell them. This was meant for phone calls and even then, I believe you just had to inform them. I think it's more than sufficient to simply inform them and they can choose what they say at that point. Think about all those service calls you make where they inform you it may be recorded for training purposes. This may get tested in court, but to this day has still not become an issue. Also, this is more an issue of what would be evidence in court, which is usually not the reason we're doing it. We just want to share information with the public for the most part. It's not an issue for YouTubing something. I don't see people saying that in all those YouTube videos of people in various places.
If I get asked to stop recording, my intention is to respectfully decline as Ridley does.
Inform them explicitly that they are free to leave if they don't want to be recorded.
Since they are not serving a warrant, they can't claim that they "have to" be there, so staying there is consent.
Joe
another option is to back away a bit from the person who is ordering you around. i don t usually do that but it might look to say I'm happy to stop audio recording you by backing away from you but i wont comply with your order to shut off the camera.
another thing...was cooper arrested on his property or on the road / right - of - way? in a circumstance like this it's possibly better to retreat to your own property so that you are arrested there, making them look even more like thugs than otherwise.
I was on my own property. He was on the road and he stepped over onto my property to arrest me.
Quote from: drumnaked! on November 08, 2008, 11:42 AM NHFTI was on my own property. He was on the road and he stepped over onto my property to arrest me.
File charges for trespassing? He was clearly told that he was no welcome on the property, several times, on video.
Joe
The mental masturbation 'faceoff with the police fantacy's ' are just that. It is not welcome on this forum. It is hard enough to stand your ground with the police and wannabe police without the escalation of violence. The camera is the number one tool we have to push the police back, use it.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 04, 2008, 08:36 PM NHFT
Quote from: drumnaked! on November 04, 2008, 05:31 PM NHFT
The Chief of Police is Mike McGillen. I talked to him face-to-face for about a half hour this evening at the polling place in town. He apologized for the incident and seems like he wants to do the right thing.
He is doing damage control, most probably. You should consider asking for a public apology from the offending officers. Making this more public helps discourage future retaliation.
I bet this is not the first incident of trying to scare young people with a handcuffed ride/kidnapping. I also wouldn't doubt the "Chief" is aware of the practice.
Quote from: David on November 08, 2008, 01:00 PM NHFT
The mental masturbation 'faceoff with the police fantacy's ' are just that. It is not welcome on this forum.
What are you talking about? What's this in response to?
I'm guessing he's talking about this: http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=15929.msg268564#msg268564
But the guy already apologized so I don't think there's any need to keep crawling all over his ass for one little comment.
Quote from: dalebert on November 08, 2008, 03:37 PM NHFT
Quote from: David on November 08, 2008, 01:00 PM NHFT
The mental masturbation 'faceoff with the police fantacy's ' are just that. It is not welcome on this forum.
What are you talking about? What's this in response to?
And why is David speaking for the rest of us anyway?
Quote from: drumnaked! on November 04, 2008, 03:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: YixilTesiphon on November 04, 2008, 01:52 PM NHFT
What the hell? Why was the SPCA concerned about their horses? I presume they take good care of them?
We do.
This is similar to the harassment of Andy Tempelman of Milford a few years back - yes, Andy was a pro-freedom guy, too. I'm researching the articles in the Milford Cabinet newspaper to see if I can find the articles. I can put Coop, Beth or Brian in touch with Andy if they'd like to review it with him. He lives in Nashua now.
Jack
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on November 06, 2008, 02:04 PM NHFT
Brad Jardis pointed me to this:—
Quote105:18 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/VII/105/105-18.htm) Special Deputies. – Any officer or agent of any incorporated society for the prevention of cruelty to animals, upon being designated in writing for that purpose by the sheriff of any county in this state, may, within such county, make arrests and bring before any court or magistrate having jurisdiction offenders found violating the provisions of this subdivision.
So was this SPCA goon actually a government agent?
You'd have to obtain from the County Sheriff or the County Clerk a "true copy" or "attested copy" of their "written designation of authority" to that actor or possibly to that agency. You'd want to get a foil, raised seal copy for the dossier if you want to use that in an official oppression or threatening case. (Or they may not have issued one and he's just acting under color of law). You could also ask for the copy of that from the SPCA office, but the county would have the official public record copy. Would also want to get his badge number etc. for the dossier - "to consider what action would be taken in response to his threats." Sheriffs can deputize people to carry out acts for them - this statute appears to define a type of deputization.
We'll need to begin mounting civil rights investigations and beginning files on some folks to prepare for serious actions against them.
PS: Way to go Coop and Beth!
Quote from: brian.travis on November 06, 2008, 04:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: Josh on November 06, 2008, 04:47 PM NHFT
He was at some point deputized. He's basically a private animal control officer with all the powers of a Sheriff.
HOWEVER: Being that's he's still acting on behalf of a private company, there may be alternate avenues of recourse should things get worse. I don't know the details, but it would seem that dealing with a private company would work differently than dealing with govt.
Mr. Sprowl told me that he was a cop for 25 years before joining the SPCA. He also said that he could be deputized by the sheriff, which would give him the ability to "detain and arrest citizens". He said that as if he was not under that situation now.
Ah, I posted too soon. So, the reason he called the cops was probly because he wasn't at the time deputized - right.
Quote from: YixilTesiphon on November 04, 2008, 01:52 PM NHFT
What the hell? Why was the SPCA concerned about their horses? I presume they take good care of them?
I think this guy is going by the idea that he should be able to go on private property and inspect to see if any laws
might be getting violated. It doesn't work that way. That's like saying the police can get search warrants on anyone to inspect their property and see if they're harboring illegal substances. This guy's ignorant of the 4th amendment.
Quote from: drumnaked! on November 08, 2008, 11:42 AM NHFT
I was on my own property. He was on the road and he stepped over onto my property to arrest me.
With no charges being filed, I say start a Chip-In for legal costs and pursue false arrest (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/643/643-1.htm) [2nd ref (http://www.1personalinjurylawyers.com/false-arrest.html)] charges (criminal), false imprisonment (http://legalcatch.wordpress.com/2006/10/24/false-imprisonment-law-definition/) and official oppression (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/643/643-1.htm) (criminal) and harassment (civil) - bet you could get donations from all over the country to help right this wrong. Take the offense & take no prisoners! (That might be false arrest ;D )
I have to wonder, to get a warrant to go onto the property don't the police need some sort of proof that a warrant is needed? Something more than just the owner won't let us onto the property?
And if a warrant is granted does it really mean they can search every part of your home, if the warrant was regarding horse shelter?
Of course I understand that they can do whatever the fuck they want to, but pretending for a second we were living in a nation of laws, I wonder what the "norm" is for this kind of thing.
I also wonder in this town who grants the warrant? Is it someone local?
Quote from: lastlady on November 09, 2008, 07:20 PM NHFT
I have to wonder, to get a warrant to go onto the property don't the police need some sort of proof that a warrant is needed? Something more than just the owner won't let us onto the property?
Maybe that's why they haven't actually got the warrant.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 09, 2008, 07:36 PM NHFT
Quote from: lastlady on November 09, 2008, 07:20 PM NHFT
I have to wonder, to get a warrant to go onto the property don't the police need some sort of proof that a warrant is needed? Something more than just the owner won't let us onto the property?
Maybe that's why they haven't actually got the warrant.
Well that and the fact that it went public and viral. It's interesting how different things are when the "public servants" realize they are being watched and critiqued by people who know the laws better than they do.
Quote from: lastlady on November 09, 2008, 07:20 PM NHFTI have to wonder, to get a warrant to go onto the property don't the police need some sort of proof that a warrant is needed? Something more than just the owner won't let us onto the property?
"Some" proof is needed. Of course, these are closed-door proceedings, so a cop can hire some actor to come in and claim to be your neighbor, saying that he saw you abuse your horse, and now there's a warrant!
Quote from: lastlady on November 09, 2008, 07:20 PM NHFTAnd if a warrant is granted does it really mean they can search every part of your home, if the warrant was regarding horse shelter?
Warrants do need to be specific, to be Constitutional. Not that they won't do it, but anything they find will usually be inadmissible, if the warrant was overly-broad.
Quote from: lastlady on November 09, 2008, 07:20 PM NHFTI also wonder in this town who grants the warrant? Is it someone local?
Warrants are granted by judges. Any judge with jurisdiction can grant a warrant.
Joe
That they have yet to return either shows that their system is slow or they were just lying, as they are trained to do.
Thanks Joe!
Quote from: jaqeboy on November 08, 2008, 07:54 PM NHFT
Quote from: drumnaked! on November 08, 2008, 11:42 AM NHFT
I was on my own property. He was on the road and he stepped over onto my property to arrest me.
With no charges being filed, I say start a Chip-In for legal costs and pursue false arrest (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/643/643-1.htm) [2nd ref (http://www.1personalinjurylawyers.com/false-arrest.html)] charges (criminal), false imprisonment (http://legalcatch.wordpress.com/2006/10/24/false-imprisonment-law-definition/) and official oppression (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/LXII/643/643-1.htm) (criminal) and harassment (civil) - bet you could get donations from all over the country to help right this wrong. Take the offense & take no prisoners! (That might be false arrest ;D )
Good idea, someone needs to set up a paypal account.
We put out a Porc 411 call on Saturday night for volunteers to help us build the final shelter. As usual, a ton of people showed up ready to work, even before we got up and around! Some of the townsfolk and at least one cop drove by slowly during the day probably wondering who all these heavily armed people were doing in the trees.
We worked all day Sunday and finished the last panels by flashlight and then had chicken soup, libations, and great conversation.
The shed needs to be painted and we are trying to figure out what kind of symbol or message we should put on the broad side. It directly faces the road through leafless trees. Perhaps Cooper can take a picture from the road and post it so we can get some ideas.
Again, thank you everyone for coming out to help and for giving up church. We are indebted to you.
I'd be partial to a big Anarchy In Your Head logo ;D, but on second thought, maybe a Gadsen flag?
I have a spare FSP Porcupine Gadsden sitting around, which you're welcome to tack up there until you come up with something more specific...
Joe
You could sarcastically stroke the state's ego by painting the NH motto on it for all to see.
I think a nice golden porcupine would be cool.
1) This barn brought to you from the barrel of a gun.
2) This barn built under duress.
3) To SPCA: Please note the horses choose NOT to use this barn.
Quote from: Dan on November 10, 2008, 11:23 AM NHFT
3) To SPCA: Please note the horses choose NOT to use this barn.
HAHAHAHA
Quote from: Porcupine on November 10, 2008, 09:23 AM NHFT
I think a nice golden porcupine would be cool.
The little light bulb went on over my head, and I just sketched a porcupine with quills spelling out "
LIVE FREE OR DIE." The
O and the
Rs are a bit tricky, but it
can be done!
I like the Live Free or Die State Motto it's too perfect!
Quote from: Sam A. Robrin on November 10, 2008, 01:10 PM NHFT
The little light bulb went on over my head, and I just sketched a porcupine with quills spelling out "LIVE FREE OR DIE." The O and the Rs are a bit tricky, but it can be done!
Can I see it?
A horses ass with "SPCA kiss here." written on the posterior portions.
so there was no shelter for the horses?
you guys just built one?
law or no law, it would just be a nice thing so the horses had some type of windblock
Kola
Horses have been finding their own shelter for tens of thousands of years. They don't need nosy bureaucrats to protect them.
The simple fact is that horses will survive conditions far harsher than we hairless apes can. They do this by growing a heavy sweater as the cold weather settles in. Growing this new hair requires that they increase their caloric intake. Since we free-feed our horses (that is, they have as much as they want) and hay costs us money, it makes financial sense to protect the horses from the cold as much as we can.
The horses will survive just fine either way, but it is to our advantage to keep them warmer.
We plan to build a barn next summer. But if they throw me in jail for not following their rules, that probably won't get done.
And they're doing this for the benefit of the animals?
Quote from: Sam A. Robrin on November 10, 2008, 01:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: Porcupine on November 10, 2008, 09:23 AM NHFT
I think a nice golden porcupine would be cool.
The little light bulb went on over my head, and I just sketched a porcupine with quills spelling out "LIVE FREE OR DIE." The O and the Rs are a bit tricky, but it can be done!
Nice! 8)
Quote from: brian.travis on November 11, 2008, 07:50 AM NHFT
Horses have been finding their own shelter for tens of thousands of years. They don't need nosy bureaucrats to protect them.
The simple fact is that horses will survive conditions far harsher than we hairless apes can. They do this by growing a heavy sweater as the cold weather settles in. Growing this new hair requires that they increase their caloric intake. Since we free-feed our horses (that is, they have as much as they want) and hay costs us money, it makes financial sense to protect the horses from the cold as much as we can.
The horses will survive just fine either way, but it is to our advantage to keep them warmer.
We plan to build a barn next summer. But if they throw me in jail for not following their rules, that probably won't get done.
And they're doing this for the benefit of the animals?
No, no, no...it's for the CHILDREN!
Quote from: Porcupine on November 11, 2008, 07:53 AM NHFT
No, no, no...it's for the CHILDREN!
What are we going to put children in the barn now with the horses?
Quote from: slim on November 11, 2008, 08:22 AM NHFT
Quote from: Porcupine on November 11, 2008, 07:53 AM NHFT
No, no, no...it's for the CHILDREN!
What are we going to put children in the barn now with the horses?
Didn't you know? Guess you missed the memo. Whenever the government does anything it's for the children. Whether it's related to children or not.
Putting children in the barn is an AWESOME idea.
Just be sure to tie them down with chains to prepare them for a public school experience.
Quote from: brian.travis on November 11, 2008, 07:50 AM NHFT
Horses have been finding their own shelter for tens of thousands of years. They don't need nosy bureaucrats to protect them.
The simple fact is that horses will survive conditions far harsher than we hairless apes can. They do this by growing a heavy sweater as the cold weather settles in. Growing this new hair requires that they increase their caloric intake. Since we free-feed our horses (that is, they have as much as they want) and hay costs us money, it makes financial sense to protect the horses from the cold as much as we can.
The horses will survive just fine either way, but it is to our advantage to keep them warmer.
We plan to build a barn next summer. But if they throw me in jail for not following their rules, that probably won't get done.
And they're doing this for the benefit of the animals?
They won't throw you in jail. They will kidnap/steal your horses and then fine you a lot of money; which they may throw you in jail if you don't pay.
Gotta love the leverage a non-profit organization has! Kind of reminds me of the days of Al Capone.
We'll break your legs if you don't do it our way, give us all your money.
Ok, do I have this anywhere close to accurate?
SPCA Joins the Police State
By Kat Kanning
On November 4th, Cooper Travis was arrested at his home in Candia for refusing to turn off his video camera while speaking with a police officer. According to Travis, "The SPCA (Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals) came to my house and demanded that he be let onto the property to see the horse shelter. He did not introduce himself as anyone (He was later identified as Steven Sprowl), he just started demanding." Cooper told the man that he couldn't let him on the property without the property owner's consent. Sprowl left angrily and called the sheriff.
When Sprowl returned, Beth Garthwaite came up identified herself as the property caretaker and reiterated that he could not come on the property without the permission of the owner. She explained that the horse shelter was not visible from the road. When asked if there was a law forcing them to let the SPCA on the property, Sprowl said that the police were on the way and threatened them with a search warrant and possible arrest and/or confiscation of the animals.
The Candia police arrived and Cooper informed the officer that he was being audio and video recorded. The officer nodded his head in assent and said, "OK". The officer claimed they had the right to inspect the property. Beth questioned them about their "right" to inspect the property, asking for the specific law. The officer sidestepped the question and said they'd have to get a search warrant. When they again denied them entrance without the property owner's consent, the officer decided he didn't want the encounter recorded and told Cooper to turn off the camera. When Cooper refused to stop filming at his own home, he was handcuffed and arrested. Cooper was armed at the time. The officer removed Cooper's gun and handed it to Sprowl, who proceeded to put a round in the chamber, drop the clip, and wave the now loaded gun around.
Cooper was taken to the Candia police station where a discussion took place between officers, and Cooper was released without charges. His gun was returned to him. As of the date of this printing, no search warrant has been obtained to search the Travis property, and no allegations of animal cruelty have been made available. It is unclear at this time whether charges of false arrest will me made against the Candia police, or charges of impersonating an officer against the Sprowl – for wearing a badge when not deputized by police.
I really like it. I don't think Cooper was arrested though just detained.
That sounds pretty darn close based on my take of it from watching the vid and listening to Cooper. I think the only thing slightly off was where he "waved it around". He carelessly tossed the loaded gun into the seat right next to Cooper. If it had gone off, Cooper or someone else in the immediate vicinity could be dead.
Quote from: lastlady on November 11, 2008, 02:18 PM NHFT
I really like it. I don't think Cooper was arrested though just detained.
Technically, he was arrested.
Quote from: Josh on November 11, 2008, 02:27 PM NHFT
Quote from: lastlady on November 11, 2008, 02:18 PM NHFT
I really like it. I don't think Cooper was arrested though just detained.
Technically, he was arrested.
Really? I thought they had to "book" you for you to be arrested. Then you will have a court date after being charged with a crime. I thought they just let him go without any of that.
–verb (used with object) 1. to seize (a person) by legal authority or warrant; take into custody: The police arrested the burglar.
2. to catch and hold; attract and fix; engage: The loud noise arrested our attention.
3. to check the course of; stop; slow down: to arrest progress.
4. Medicine/Medical. to control or stop the active progress of (a disease): The new drug did not arrest the cancer.
–noun 5. the taking of a person into legal custody, as by officers of the law.
6. any seizure or taking by force.
7. an act of stopping or the state of being stopped: the arrest of tooth decay.
8. Machinery. any device for stopping machinery; stop.
—Idiom9. under arrest, in custody of the police or other legal authorities: They placed the suspect under arrest at the scene of the crime.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrest
Quote from: lastlady on November 11, 2008, 02:49 PM NHFT
Quote from: Josh on November 11, 2008, 02:27 PM NHFT
Quote from: lastlady on November 11, 2008, 02:18 PM NHFT
I really like it. I don't think Cooper was arrested though just detained.
Technically, he was arrested.
Really? I thought they had to "book" you for you to be arrested. Then you will have a court date after being charged with a crime. I thought they just let him go without any of that.
I think when they book you then you have been charged with a "crime". I think the cops can arrest you and hold you for some time (while they try and find something to charge you with) but after a specified amount of time they either have to charge you or release you.
Quote from: Porcupine on November 11, 2008, 02:55 PM NHFT
–verb (used with object) 1. to seize (a person) by legal authority or warrant; take into custody: The police arrested the burglar.
2. to catch and hold; attract and fix; engage: The loud noise arrested our attention.
3. to check the course of; stop; slow down: to arrest progress.
4. Medicine/Medical. to control or stop the active progress of (a disease): The new drug did not arrest the cancer.
–noun 5. the taking of a person into legal custody, as by officers of the law.
6. any seizure or taking by force.
7. an act of stopping or the state of being stopped: the arrest of tooth decay.
8. Machinery. any device for stopping machinery; stop.
—Idiom9. under arrest, in custody of the police or other legal authorities: They placed the suspect under arrest at the scene of the crime.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/arrest
See Also: Kidnapping under Color of Law
If you are not charged with a crime or offense you have been detained not arrested. That is the way I understand it.
Quote from: lastlady on November 11, 2008, 05:28 PM NHFT
If you are not charged with a crime or offense you have been detained not arrested. That is the way I understand it.
You're not "charged" with a crime until a judge says you are. Police don't charge people with crimes, they arrest them and make accusations, requesting that they be charged.
Actually, the proper term is "seize", not arrest. A person is "seized" any time they reasonably believe they are not free to leave. A traffic stop is a seizure. Being surrounded by armed, uniformed officers who "just want to talk" is a seizure. Voluntarily entering a police station to make a statement, then being led to believe that you're not free to leave, is a seizure.
An "investigatory stop" is not a seizure, until it passes some arbitrary time limit and becomes "unreasonble delay". Courts have ruled that 15 minutes is not unreasonable, but 2 hours is; in between seems open for debate.
But no matter the time limit, once a person is handcuffed and removed from the immediate scene, they are "seized" for all legal purposes.
So what is the difference between being detained and being arrested?
Quote from: KBCraig on November 11, 2008, 09:47 PM NHFT
But no matter the time limit, once a person is handcuffed and removed from the immediate scene, they are "seized" for all legal purposes.
So how do they manage to charge people for resisting arrest when they're not being arrested?
Would it actually be resisting a seizure, and if so, can you charge an epileptic with that if they start to have a seizure but manage to snap out of it?
I prefer dictionary definitions ... a little more voluntary than government ones
Quote from: lastlady on November 11, 2008, 09:56 PM NHFT
So what is the difference between being detained and being arrested?
The difference between reasonable articulable suspicion, and probable cause.
Not trying to be coy, but that's the difference.
If an officer has RAS that "crime is afoot", he may detain someone in an "investigatory stop" to ascertain if he's right. The person is "seized" for the duration of that stop. If he has PC, or develops it during the course of the investigation, he may effect a "custodial arrest": handcuffs, mugshot, jail cell, bail hearing.
I agree with Russell: lawyer's definitions give me a headache.
The Candia chief of police told me that his officer arrested Cooper. We have a word for putting someone in shackles and holding them against their will: kidnapping. The government has a different word for the same thing: arrest.
Cooper was not booked or charged, but he was certainly held against his will. I believe detainment is when you can't walk away. Arrest is when they take you away and hold you.
John B. explained it too me. When you are stopped, you have been arrested. When you are charged, you're charged. We just use 'arrested' as synonymous with being charged.
Quote from: brian.travis on November 13, 2008, 06:17 AM NHFT
The Candia chief of police told me that his officer arrested Cooper. We have a word for putting someone in shackles and holding them against their will: kidnapping. The government has a different word for the same thing: arrest.
Cooper was not booked or charged, but he was certainly held against his will. I believe detainment is when you can't walk away. Arrest is when they take you away and hold you.
Any plans of filing a criminal complaint with the D.A. ?
We're looking into our options. A case of this type has a six-year statute of limitations, so we're not in any hurry. There are some things happening behind the scenes. I'll report when there's something to report.
Kat, you continue to bring clarity out of chaos. ;)
I don't know if it can be said Steve waved the handgun around. He did toss it into the passenger seat, as I've heard it.
OK, I was hoping someone who was there would look the article over, but it's too late now :)
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 13, 2008, 08:13 PM NHFT
OK, I was hoping someone who was there would look the article over, but it's too late now :)
Oops. This (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=15929.msg269374#msg269374) article? I didn't comment because it sounded good, correct, and accurate to me (judging by the video I saw - I wasn't there in person). I figured if there was a stylistic, grammatical, or factual change, I'd speak up - but I see now it would have been good to say "good article, Kat."
I believe Cooper was arrested because he scared the Police officer. Cops don't like armed men or anybody, it makes them nervous. You can't intiminate somebody that has quick access to a firearm on their own property, you have to dissarm them first, like the NAZI did to Cooper.
In Iraq or Afganistan, the commanders told their troops they had to bring in somebody if they sent out a responce to a complaint or suspected the people of being armed or hostle. I guess the Cop just went to the training he probably had in the military. If this is so, this concerns me greatly. I mean, what do you do if there is a tense situation and the cop thinks he's in a combat situation and you are just shopping, walking around minding your own business or defending yourseld when the cop is around. Jeesshh! Cooper, you did the rite thing by staying calm, you took the violence out of the cop, good job.
The cop didn't know he was armed until he was in the process of handcuffing him.
Quote from: Josh on November 14, 2008, 10:55 AM NHFT
The cop didn't know he was armed until he was in the process of handcuffing him.
Maybe, but all the townsfolk know that we always carry all the time. And I'm sure this cop did, too.
It really sounds like it came down to the camera. It was just an excuse the cop was looking for since he had nothing on Cooper to arrest him for. That's evident by the fact that they didn't hold him.
Do you think fatso is going to be the "ace in the hole" with a felony charge just for kicks if you persue this?? He did mention that he was not happy with being recorded and was all too happy to say, "yup, it is a felony and I didn't give permission" or something like that?
Quote from: brian.travis on November 11, 2008, 07:50 AM NHFT
Horses have been finding their own shelter for tens of thousands of years. They don't need nosy bureaucrats to protect them.
The simple fact is that horses will survive conditions far harsher than we hairless apes can. They do this by growing a heavy sweater as the cold weather settles in. Growing this new hair requires that they increase their caloric intake. Since we free-feed our horses (that is, they have as much as they want) and hay costs us money, it makes financial sense to protect the horses from the cold as much as we can.
The horses will survive just fine either way, but it is to our advantage to keep them warmer.
We plan to build a barn next summer. But if they throw me in jail for not following their rules, that probably won't get done.
And they're doing this for the benefit of the animals?
I am not trying to cause problems. I dislike nazi bastards telling others what to do and believe it is up to us a individuals to be responsible for ourselves. I understand that horses have survived through rough weather and can often find places to use as wind blocks. I have witnessed a young healhty horse die due being exposed to a wet cold windy winter day. He went hypothermic and died. Blankets can help too for an older horse or a sick one. Its fairly easy to put up a simple v-wall blocking the north winds. You see a lot of ranchers construct these for cattle to gather or they often dig wide ditches.
It's just my personal opinion thal any domesticated animals should have food water and shelter (from sun or bad weather). I don't know your terrain so they may have been some great places for shelter, thick trees, berms etc)
What happened to you was bullshit and I despise stupidasses with authority.
So was there or was there not a shelter built in compliance with the law but out of sight of the SPCA when this incident occurred? It is unclear to me.
that was I was trying to find out Bill.
on another note I noticed old fatass In the vodeo) said it has to be a 3 sided shelter.
you should have pointed to your garage if you had one...or a a lil 12x12 storage shed. :)
i once had to warm up a young horse who was outside in the winter winds and shiverling terribly. The only good place was a small tack shed about 10x 10 in size. We both got in there, I wiped her down and warmed her up. (she was covered in sleet and ice). Now, rememeber I am up here at 9500 ft above sea level and we got some nasty storms very early.
From what I understand, yes, there was a shelter.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 14, 2008, 07:19 PM NHFT
From what I understand, yes, there was a shelter.
So what were they building last weekend until dark?
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 14, 2008, 10:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 14, 2008, 07:19 PM NHFT
From what I understand, yes, there was a shelter.
So what were they building last weekend until dark?
If ya wanted to know you could have went and helped.
Amen Pat 8)
Two guys we never see asking... so was a crime committed? ;D
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 14, 2008, 10:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 14, 2008, 07:19 PM NHFT
From what I understand, yes, there was a shelter.
So what were they building last weekend until dark?
A structure visible from the road on which to place messages to the local bureaucrats, such as "DON'T TREAD ON ME" or "Our horses choose whether to use this shelter."
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 14, 2008, 10:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 14, 2008, 07:19 PM NHFT
From what I understand, yes, there was a shelter.
So what were they building last weekend until dark?
If I'm not mistaken, there was already a three sided structure set up for the horses. What was being built was a barn.
Did Brian or Cooper ever find out which horse filed the original complaint with the SPCA sparking this whole sequence of events? ;D
Yeah. If they had them in a Barn they could question them.
yeah a barn is four sided structure.
wonder what the laws say about that? LOL
Kola
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 14, 2008, 02:37 PM NHFT
So was there or was there not a shelter built in compliance with the law but out of sight of the SPCA when this incident occurred? It is unclear to me.
I guess you are in the same position as the spca guy .... I guess you will have to get a cop and a warrant
Quote from: Paul Comeau Jr on November 15, 2008, 08:45 AM NHFT
Did Brian or Cooper ever find out which horse filed the original complaint with the SPCA sparking this whole sequence of events? ;D
Mr. Ed
:D 8)
Wilbur...
Mr. Ed Lyrics
A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And no one can talk to a horse of course
That is, of course, unless the horse is the famous Mr. Ed.
Go right to the source and ask the horse
He'll give you the answer that you'll endorse.
He's always on a steady course.
Talk to Mr. Ed.
People yakkity yak a streak and waste your time of day
But Mister Ed will never speak unless he has something to say.
A horse is a horse, of course, of course,
And this one'll talk 'til his voice is hoarse.
You never heard of a talking horse?
Well listen to this.
I am Mister Ed.
All you have to do is keep the phone out of their reach!
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on November 15, 2008, 08:57 PM NHFT
All you have to do is keep the phone out of their reach!
They could never keep him in... ;D
He was smarter than Wilbur.
Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2008, 01:19 AM NHFT
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 14, 2008, 10:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 14, 2008, 07:19 PM NHFT
From what I understand, yes, there was a shelter.
So what were they building last weekend until dark?
If I'm not mistaken, there was already a three sided structure set up for the horses. What was being built was a barn.
Why would they need a barn if the three-sided structure was sufficient?
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 16, 2008, 05:04 PM NHFTWhy would they need a barn if the three-sided structure was sufficient?
Maybe to store things which they don't want getting wet?
Joe
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 16, 2008, 05:04 PM NHFT
Quote from: Brandon on November 15, 2008, 01:19 AM NHFT
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 14, 2008, 10:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 14, 2008, 07:19 PM NHFT
From what I understand, yes, there was a shelter.
So what were they building last weekend until dark?
If I'm not mistaken, there was already a three sided structure set up for the horses. What was being built was a barn.
Why would they need a barn if the three-sided structure was sufficient?
Russell's wanting to ban you again for being obnoxious, siding with the gov't.
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 16, 2008, 05:04 PM NHFT
Why would they need a barn if the three-sided structure was sufficient?
Who said anything about
need and why do you really care what they do on their property?
Anyway, Brian already explained that: more shelter = less feed...it makes economic sense. Plus it's fun to have a barn-raising party.
Even if there wasn't a shelter at the time of the original visit from the gang, there were plans for a shelter, and the weather had been quite mild for November. Saying a shelter must be available by Nov. 1st makes about as much sense as saying that someone is capable of responsible alcohol consumption at 12am on the day that marks their 21st year of life.
I suspect the barn was constructed simply to avoid a situation where the thugs can come on the property, even if there already was a suitable shelter out of sight.
I'd like to discuss the economic rent. Horses in the pasture MUST pay the rent on the common resource ie. the ground they occupy, thus preventing others from using this commodity.
In addition, even though many consider us trolls, kola, Bill Kauffman who is and I demand to know the details of the criminal conspiracy. You HAVE to answer our probing questions. Some may consider them intrusive, inconsiderate, or even down right rude. But, under the code of conduct dictated by pajama clad forum denizens, you MUST answer all inquiries in detail. We have the right to cross examine you at length.
Now some of you may think that just because we never seem to provide any actual support, help, or entertainment value that benefits the efforts of this little part of the internet, that we don't have the AUTHORITY TO DEMAND this COMPLIANCE, however you are REQUIRED TO SUBMIT :hopmad: to our cross examination whenever we deem it necessary.
Thanks for your VOLUNTARY COOPERATION in this matter.
I can feel the karma coming our way.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Thank you, I'll be here all week.
Quote from: Bill Grennon on November 17, 2008, 06:40 AM NHFT
I'd like to discuss the economic rent. Horses in the pasture MUST pay the rent on the common resource ie the ground they occupy, thus preventing others from using the commodity.
OMG. You have no idea how hard I'm laughing right now!
I am also amused.
... I am glad that Bill doesn't tell us to sit down
Bill says "Sit Down!"
I am thinking that Brian Travis and his kin will have more feed money ... since they will not be donating to the spca anymore. ;)
What is most disgusting to me is not the fact that the law exists (Though I am not happy with the law), but the awful coercive manner in which the public servants began to demand consent and the detaining and transporting to a distant location of a man for the act of audio recording a public servant in his official acts in public. The man with the camera had no right to privacy in his communication with the officer. In my mind, that means the officer should not either.
That law needs to be rewritten.
Quote from: Bill Grennon on November 17, 2008, 06:40 AM NHFT
I'd like to discuss the economic rent. Horses in the pasture MUST pay the rent on the common resource ie. the ground they occupy, thus preventing others from using this commodity.
*gigglesnort*gag*cough*... oh, lawsy!
+1!
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on November 17, 2008, 07:41 AM NHFT
What is most disgusting to me is not the fact that the law exists (Though I am not happy with the law), but the awful coercive manner in which the public servants began to demand consent and the detaining and transporting to a distant location of a man for the act of audio recording a public servant in his official acts in public. The man with the camera had no right to privacy in his communication with the officer. In my mind, that means the officer should not either.
That law needs to be rewritten.
I wholeheartedly agree!
It should fully be in our rights to be videotaping the actions and voice of a public officer while standing on our own private property when we inform them we are doing so (not concealed).
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 17, 2008, 02:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on November 17, 2008, 07:41 AM NHFT
What is most disgusting to me is not the fact that the law exists (Though I am not happy with the law), but the awful coercive manner in which the public servants began to demand consent and the detaining and transporting to a distant location of a man for the act of audio recording a public servant in his official acts in public. The man with the camera had no right to privacy in his communication with the officer. In my mind, that means the officer should not either.
That law needs to be rewritten.
I wholeheartedly agree!
It should fully be in our rights to be videotaping the actions and voice of a public officer while standing on our own private property when we inform them we are doing so (not concealed).
It
IS within our rights to do it, with or without their knowledge. We just need to prevent them from trying to enforce otherwise.
Quote from: Josh on November 17, 2008, 02:47 PM NHFT
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 17, 2008, 02:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on November 17, 2008, 07:41 AM NHFT
What is most disgusting to me is not the fact that the law exists (Though I am not happy with the law), but the awful coercive manner in which the public servants began to demand consent and the detaining and transporting to a distant location of a man for the act of audio recording a public servant in his official acts in public. The man with the camera had no right to privacy in his communication with the officer. In my mind, that means the officer should not either.
That law needs to be rewritten.
I wholeheartedly agree!
It should fully be in our rights to be videotaping the actions and voice of a public officer while standing on our own private property when we inform them we are doing so (not concealed).
It IS within our rights to do it, with or without their knowledge. We just need to prevent them from trying to enforce otherwise.
I thought there was a recent case in Nashua where a guy caught a law enforcement officer on a concealed camera doing something wrong but wasn't able to use it in court even though he had a sign up.
Does anyone know what I am referring to?
Their "rules" may not provide for it, but they have no place telling you what you can and can not do with a video camera on your own property. Anyone that doesn't like it is free to leave.
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 17, 2008, 03:56 PM NHFT
I thought there was a recent case in Nashua where a guy caught a law enforcement officer on a concealed camera doing something wrong but wasn't able to use it in court even though he had a sign up.
Does anyone know what I am referring to?
I don't know what you're referring to but it wouldn't surprise me. My understanding of the law has to do with what can actually be used as evidence in court. I don't think it matters as far as other uses of the recording, like YouTube and the "court" of public opinion.
Somewhere in this thread I posted info on the Nashua case. The cops show up looking for the homeowners kid for questioning. There are security cameras in plain sight and posted. The cops were dicks, and the guy goes to the station to file a complaint, and in the process states he has video. He is arrested. No charges were brought because Nashua OD could not prove a crime had occurred by his taping. In the end he walked BUT the cops would not give him back the video.
Quote from: neggy on November 17, 2008, 04:13 PM NHFT
Somewhere in this thread I posted info on the Nashua case. The cops show up looking for the homeowners kid for questioning. There are security cameras in plain sight and posted. The cops were dicks, and the guy goes to the station to file a complaint, and in the process states he has video. He is arrested. No charges were brought because Nashua OD could not prove a crime had occurred by his taping. In the end he walked BUT the cops would not give him back the video.
That's it. Thanks.
So while on your property, do you have to either post or inform someone verbally that you are filming w/audio and ask their permission?
Quote from: neggy on November 17, 2008, 04:13 PM NHFT
Somewhere in this thread I posted info on the Nashua case. The cops show up looking for the homeowners kid for questioning. There are security cameras in plain sight and posted. The cops were dicks, and the guy goes to the station to file a complaint, and in the process states he has video. He is arrested. No charges were brought because Nashua OD could not prove a crime had occurred by his taping. In the end he walked BUT the cops would not give him back the video.
Always make a copy before providing one. Also, AFAIK, videotaping with no audio is NOT illegal. Audio recording without consent is, currently.
Quote from: Bill Grennon on November 17, 2008, 06:40 AM NHFT
I'd like to discuss the economic rent. Horses in the pasture MUST pay the rent on the common resource ie. the ground they occupy, thus preventing others from using this commodity.
In addition, even though many consider us trolls, kola, Bill Kauffman who is and I demand to know the details of the criminal conspiracy. You HAVE to answer our probing questions. Some may consider them intrusive, inconsiderate, or even down right rude. But, under the code of conduct dictated by pajama clad forum denizens, you MUST answer all inquiries in detail. We have the right to cross examine you at length.
Now some of you may think that just because we never seem to provide any actual support, help, or entertainment value that benefits the efforts of this little part of the internet, that we don't have the AUTHORITY TO DEMAND this COMPLIANCE, however you are REQUIRED TO SUBMIT :hopmad: to our cross examination whenever we deem it necessary.
Thanks for your VOLUNTARY COOPERATION in this matter.
I can feel the karma coming our way.
:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:
Thank you, I'll be here all week.
This was the funniest damn thing I've seen in awhile. Thank you. :rofl:
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 17, 2008, 03:56 PM NHFT
Quote from: Josh on November 17, 2008, 02:47 PM NHFT
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 17, 2008, 02:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: DigitalWarrior on November 17, 2008, 07:41 AM NHFT
What is most disgusting to me is not the fact that the law exists (Though I am not happy with the law), but the awful coercive manner in which the public servants began to demand consent and the detaining and transporting to a distant location of a man for the act of audio recording a public servant in his official acts in public. The man with the camera had no right to privacy in his communication with the officer. In my mind, that means the officer should not either.
That law needs to be rewritten.
I wholeheartedly agree!
It should fully be in our rights to be videotaping the actions and voice of a public officer while standing on our own private property when we inform them we are doing so (not concealed).
It IS within our rights to do it, with or without their knowledge. We just need to prevent them from trying to enforce otherwise.
I thought there was a recent case in Nashua where a guy caught a law enforcement officer on a concealed camera doing something wrong but wasn't able to use it in court even though he had a sign up.
Does anyone know what I am referring to?
I am actually advocating a change in the law such that no notification has to be given to a public official who is acting in the performance of his duty. I would love it if the [police|code enforcers|SPCA volunteers|crossing guards] never knew if they were being recorded. They should always be acting in a civil and courteous manner. Doing otherwise is a betrayal of the trust they have been given.
First Police Story
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060629/NEWS01/106290121
Follow Up, No charges pressed, Complaint against detective was justified
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060805/NEWS01/108050086
QuoteI am actually advocating a change in the law such that no notification has to be given to a public official who is acting in the performance of his duty. I would love it if public officials in carrying out their official duties* never knew if they were being recorded. They should always be acting in a civil and courteous manner. Doing otherwise is a betrayal of the trust they have been given.
I couldn't agree more.
*substituted language to be clearer.
Allrite, I believe the state trooper flying aroundin their homeland security planes might have reported on this subject.
Why? I believe it might have been here,or,Militeryfirearms.co, where a bunch of friends were shooting their bows in Washington State somewhere and a HSD plane flew over and reported bow hunters in the woods not in deer season. The pigs called the local police and game wardens and tried to press charges.
The air is where the fachists are looking from.
No really! I'm not nutbag, (well sometimes I ::)am).
In my year in Grafton, I think I have seen one small plane in the sky.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on November 23, 2008, 07:05 AM NHFT
In my year in Grafton, I think I have seen one small plane in the sky.
It was a gooberment spy plane.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on November 23, 2008, 07:05 AM NHFT
In my year in Grafton, I think I have seen one small plane in the sky.
Lloyd, I think your home might be off the track for the Lebanon airport. At my place (in the southern tropical region of Grafton) I noticed at least one small plane per day.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on November 23, 2008, 07:05 AM NHFT
In my year in Grafton, I think I have seen one small plane in the sky.
It's the ones you can't see that you have to worry about.
:glasses7: :Leaving_in_a_jet_plane____by_
Quote from: Bill Grennon on November 17, 2008, 06:40 AM NHFT
I'd like to discuss the economic rent. Horses in the pasture MUST pay the rent on the common resource ie. the ground they occupy, thus preventing others from using this commodity.
In addition, even though many consider us trolls, kola, Bill Kauffman who is and I demand to know the details of the criminal conspiracy. You HAVE to answer our probing questions. Some may consider them intrusive, inconsiderate, or even down right rude. But, under the code of conduct dictated by pajama clad forum denizens, you MUST answer all inquiries in detail. We have the right to cross examine you at length.
Now some of you may think that just because we never seem to provide any actual support, help, or entertainment value that benefits the efforts of this little part of the internet, that we don't have the AUTHORITY TO DEMAND this COMPLIANCE, however you are REQUIRED TO SUBMIT :hopmad: to our cross examination whenever we deem it necessary.
Thanks for your VOLUNTARY COOPERATION in this matter.
Karma added. :rofl: Although that signature is *so* wrong.
I saw the allegedly possibly abused horses in question today, and can confirm they're very hairy and appeared happy, despite the sub-freezing temperatures. And they weren't hanging out in a shelter, either. They were hanging out by the fence, asking me to pet them. :)
You must not look up very often, Loyd. :Leaving_in_a_jet_plane____by_
Quoteasking me to pet them
Really?
Literally asking you to pet them - as in verbalizing this request?
Quote from: BillKauffman on November 25, 2008, 01:45 PM NHFT
Quoteasking me to pet them
Really?
Literally asking you to pet them - as in verbalizing this request?
Are you for real? ::)
DID THE MAN IN NEW HAMSHIRE GET HIS STOLLEN HORSES BACK FROM THE SPCA . I HAVE A HARD TIME BELEAVING THES THEIFS ARE STILL AT LARGE
I believe all but one have been returned.
YES THER SUCH GREAT LYERS. SAYING EVERY THINK IS GREAT COUNTING HOW MANY ANIMALS TO STEAL ON THE NEXT VISIT. what can we do to protect are animals against the spca?????
Quote from: stupid69 on June 12, 2009, 11:18 AM NHFT
YES THER SUCH GREAT LYERS. SAYING EVERY THINK IS GREAT COUNTING HOW MANY ANIMALS TO STEAL ON THE NEXT VISIT. what can we do to protect are animals against the spca?????
I'm so glad you finally realized your caps lock had been left on. It's ok. I know not everyone took typing classes and many have to look at their keys while typing. ;)
BC CANADA ARE LIVING IN FEAR THAT THERE ANIMALS WILLBE STOLLEN BY THE SPCA . THEY HAVE MORE POWER THAN THE POLICE . WE NEED ARE LAWS CHANGED LAST YEAR THEY WERE CRANTED TO SIEZE THE EVEDENCE THEY STEAL YOUR ANIMALS THEN NEXT DAY THEY SELL THEM OR THEY GO TOA RESCUE THAT SELLS THEM OR KEEPS THEM FOR THE BREEDING FARMS. THEY LIKE TO GET THER LITTLE CREADY HANDS ON PURE BREEDS THEY NEVER RAID LARGE DOGS THAT LIVE IN FILTH OR MUTTS THERES NO MONEY ALSO THEY WANT ALL THE HEALTHY ONES IM SO BITTER I WILL NEVER GIVE UP IV NEVER BEEN TO JAIL THIS COULD BE THE FIRST TIME BITTER IN BC CANADA THIS CORRUBTION NEEDS TO STOP MOST PEOPLE THATS BEEN RAIDED JUST ARE SO ASHAMED THEY NEVER SPEEK OUT TOO SCARREDTO SPEAK THAT IS NOT MY PROBLEM THE VETS IN BC ARE SCARRED TO STAND BY YOU SO WW HAVE NO ONE TO STAND UP FOR US .AND THE SPECIAL CONSTABLES ARE TRAINED TO STEAL AND LIE . THE SAY THE GOVERMENT PAID 72 THOUSAND TO TRAIN THEM TO STEAL AND LIE . PISSED OFF IN BC
Quote from: stupid69 on June 12, 2009, 10:38 AM NHFT
DID THE MAN IN NEW HAMSHIRE GET HIS STOLLEN HORSES BACK FROM THE SPCA . I HAVE A HARD TIME BELEAVING THES THEIFS ARE STILL AT LARGE
All the horses are back except for an old stallion. Heidi has had trouble keeping weight on the old guy for a while. He is the last of a champion bloodline going back a hundred years. Her plan was to get him up to weight this spring and (ahem) extract his precious bodily fluids.
The vet in charge of the government's case has admitted that he can go back, but they're keeping him anyway. Political prisoner? Seems strange that all the kings vets and all the kings men can't keep weight on the horse, but Heidi is the one charged with neglect?
Anyway, all the other horses are home and looking quite good.
Trial scheduled for 22-Jul. The lawyer is doing depositions now.
Quote from: brian.travis on June 12, 2009, 11:50 AM NHFT
The vet in charge of the government's case has admitted that he can go back, but they're keeping him anyway. Political prisoner? Seems strange that all the kings vets and all the kings men can't keep weight on the horse, but Heidi is the one charged with neglect?
That would be a great point for their lawyer to use .
The video of the son being arrested for filming is how I "discovered" the FSP and about all you activism in HN . I spent days watching the archived RidleyReport
Hi Stupid69,
I hate to be the one to have to say this. It's awkward like being the one to tell someone their fly is open. But uh, <whispering> you left your caps lock on again </whispering>.
Update from the horse forums (gloatingly linked to by someone on Facebook):
http://discus.equinesite.net/discus/messages/5/26959.html?1254273933
What a group of cant understand normal thinking, they are.
those people are a joke. Thank god I belong to an organization that has members that would never turn someone into the police for using their property as they see fit. Private property of course includes livestock and animals of all kinds.
Freedom lovers would of course not violate the NAP and would act like human beings and ostracize people they didn't agree with.
oh wait.
maybe we should just legislate it.
If the economy tanks badly enough many pet horse enthusiasts will be eating their horses.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on September 30, 2009, 05:57 AM NHFT
If the economy tanks badly enough many pet horse enthusiasts will be eating their horses.
I'm pretty sure they'd murder and eat wild animals first. Then minorities. They'd cook up a hispanic person before they'd ever touch their horses and they'd think they were right in doing so.
They'd want a medal.