You can get in on the formation of this wonderful grassroots political organization .... The FSP .... The Free State Party.
We need to formulate our Party platform and start running candidates in elections on extremist freedom issues. We are looking for a few good men who are willing to push that big red Rothbardian button.
For those that just can't stomach the politics ... then they can fight them through the NH Underground or go agorist by living in the Shire.
NH Underground - Civil Disobedience, hiding refugees, poking the government
Shire residency - Agorist lifestyle, funny costumes
Free State Party - Radical Politics
proposed party platform planks:
NH secession in 2009
NH secession in 2010
UN Free Zone
glass hovels for government bureaucrats
holding politicians feet to the fire (porcupine brand optional)
Party Headquarters located in beautiful Grafton, NH ... the center of the political revolution.
that will be up for a vote from the Party's headquarters in Grafton, NH
another will be secession during 2009 or 2010
other proposed line items?
are you sick of being let down by the Libertarian Party?
always wanted to join a radical party?
Is political action allowed on this forum again, or is this just a joke?
Good point.
I guess this is radical enough for me .... and I will have to take it to another forum, or make another one. :)
I have thought the Terms of Surrender in the Drug War would be something useful to offer.
I mean I don't think I am interested in hunting to the ends of the earth and hanging folks that created, support and/or allowed the war... ;D
But this nonsense of going "oh please just give in on the 1/4 oz or less as only a ticket." Is the talk of losers.
The losers are the monsters that lied, imprisoned, killed, and commited cultural genocide against peaceful people. Every recent public opinion poll finds the public is ready to relegalize cannabis, by as much as 65 to 75 percent.
The generation that has now come to power knows the lie of medical dangers that were told to us by the government. The bigotry and hatred unleashed by the War on (some) Drugs is unmeasurable. Most of the overreach we complain about when dealing with law enforcement is directly linked to the Drug War.
When will enough people stand up and say, my body - my choice?
I liked the "All Children Left Alone" Act.
Terms of Surrender in the Drug War (wording pending)
"All Children Left Alone Act"
We could have a "Contract with the Shire" campaign.
We also could have a more radical candidate "pledge to the taxpayer".
Could you supply a sentence or paragraph that explains your proposed planks?
I like Lloyd's spending freeze or 10% reduction per year pledge - you pledge to not sign or vote for anything that proposes or authorizes spending any more money than last year.
At the first Porc Fest James Maynard was telling
of a good idea. To propose a law, you stand up on a box
and have a noose put around your neck, you propose the
law and it is voted on. If it passes fine, if it is voted down they kick
the box out from under ya.
Is Maynard going to stand up under those conditions to propose the law?
that is one way to get rid of political enemies
Once, a state politician in AL was complaining about the fact that we (Libertarians) were always nagging him and fighting him on taxes and such. So I offered him the following deal:
"For every percentage decrease in the current rate of a tax, you can buy yourself 1 week of peace--for 1 week, I won't nag you at all about THAT tax. So, if you reduce the present State Income Tax by an across the board 52%, you buy yourself ONE WHOLE YEAR of me not fighting and nagging you on the State Income Tax. The same goes for a reduction in the staffing of any particular government agency--so long as none of these cuts is accompanied by a corresponding increase in other areas--they have to be real cuts, and I'll be looking closely before I grant you the respite."
Needless to say, he didn't take me up on it.
Can we have something about abolition of all police and law enforcement agents?
That might not be Rothbardian, since he would have supported enforcement of property rights contracts and restitution or whatever, but if there is no tax collector, the state can make taxes as high as it wants. Without police, it can regulate whatever it wants.
Oh, and shutting down all state-run prisons and letting the inmates go free :-)
I really can't tell if this is serious or not.
Quote from: Jacobus on January 04, 2009, 07:37 PM NHFT
Can we have something about abolition of all police and law enforcement agents?
hmmm sounds interesting ... I guess we could discuss the timetable for the official plank ... but if you were running on this issue, you would be welcome in the Free State Party. :)
You can join us in person or communicate over the internet your ideas.
We might have a short list of candidates we can endorse ..... after all they have to have radical, strike-the-root ideas like yours.
Friday for Radical Rep
Quote from: Jacobus on January 04, 2009, 07:38 PM NHFT
Oh, and shutting down all state-run prisons and letting the inmates go free :-)
hmmm
I guess it would depend on the office you were running for. You could say you want to shut whatever detention facility is being funded by your government's taxes.
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 07:44 PM NHFT
I really can't tell if this is serious or not.
Well .... I was lying that this was brought about by an overwhelming grassroots push ... but I always thought that if you are going to run ... or support others ... why not have radical current goals?
I have found the LP to be very boring (they seem to give in to political correctness), and I gave up on the Republicans a few years ago, and the Democrats are commies, other "liberty" groups are not quite radical enough, so why not hold up the banner of liberty under our own colors?
Our guiding principles would be that we have to always be the most extreme (towards freedom) group and that we never compromise with evildoers. As long as we are pushing as hard as possible, then we are headed in the right direction at the right speed. :)
I think radical ideas appeal to normal people, and can get publicity. So they can possibly help you get elected and educate the public. I am sure this is why other groups (like the LP) have started, they have just morphed over time. If we can remain a party that Thomas Jefferson and Rothbard could give their approving nod to, then we should be safe.
I don't think politics are the solution, but many times people have trouble understanding us ... so why not give them an organization they can relate to.
Some of you who have dealt with similar groups will have good ideas of pitfalls we should avoid.
BTW where on the internet, should we talk about this idea? After a while, we will want others to find us.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 04, 2009, 07:56 PM NHFT
Friday for Radical Rep
many decent folk ran for NH State Rep recently (many for educational purposes) .... it would be fun to be able to run as an independent with the endorsement of the Free State Party and get out a truly radical freedom message. We also endorse "Mickey Mouse" and frost heaves, since they are better than almost all encumbants. We could have a more entertaining debate and primary process than the donkeys or elephants.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 07:44 PM NHFT
I really can't tell if this is serious or not.
Well .... I was lying that this was brought about by an overwhelming grassroots push ... but I always thought that if you are going to run ... or support others ... why not have radical current goals?
I have found the LP to be very boring (they seem to give in to political correctness), and I gave up on the Republicans a few years ago, and the Democrats are commies, other "liberty" groups are not quite radical enough, so why not hold up the banner of liberty under our own colors?
Our guiding principles would be that we have to always be the most extreme (towards freedom) group and that we never compromise with evildoers. As long as we are pushing as hard as possible, then we are headed in the right direction at the right speed. :)
I think radical ideas appeal to normal people, and can get publicity. So they can possibly help you get elected and educate the public. I am sure this is why other groups (like the LP) have started, they have just morphed over time. If we can remain a party that Thomas Jefferson and Rothbard could give their approving nod to, then we should be safe.
I don't think politics are the solution, but many times people have trouble understanding us ... so why not give them an organization they can relate to.
OK, sign me up. :D
since we don't do politics on this forum .... should we discuss this on the NHLA's forum, or would we we too radical? They might not be able to endorse our candidates, since they are so closely tied to the republicans.
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:16 PM NHFT
OK, sign me up. :D
I was thinking this idea would appeal to people such as yourself, since some of my more progressive ideas are harder to get your mind around (like the Shire). I had candidates like Morey in mind when thinking this up. He wanted to have some radical proposals and we could endorse him or have him as an official candidate.
I was also thinking that we could all have nametags that said something like "Chairman" or "Head of the Free State Party". :)
This idea would also appeal to guys that are attracted to the Free State Project and what to be in an "official" group that is also very radically liberty oriented. We can distance ourselves from the other parties and embrace liberty.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:18 PM NHFT
since we don't do politics on this forum .... should we discuss this on the NHLA's forum, or would we we too radical? They might not be able to endorse our candidates, since they are so closely tied to the republicans.
The first thing I thought of when I started to read this thread was "Gee, ya think the NHLA would actually endorse or give money to a political candidate promoting *true* liberty?"
I think discussing this on the NHLA forum is a delightful idea. >:D Also open to other suggestions.
I predict the phrase ruining it for the rest of us,
will be making a big come back.
Ad that the Prez and I produced for Morey. A slightly modified version was run on cable for his campaign.
Quote from: Pat K on January 04, 2009, 08:36 PM NHFT
I predict the phrase ruining it for the rest of us,
will be making a big come back.
Why, PatK, how could you think such a thing?
I'm going to run for Empress. :icon_queen: If elected, I will subjugate the masses in a kinder, gentler manner, feeling their pain and toasting marshmallows in 1000 points of light.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 04, 2009, 08:41 PM NHFT
Ad that the Prez and I produced for Morey. A slightly modified version was run on cable for his campaign.
Morey might be a little extreme for us, but we could take a chance.
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:50 PM NHFT
I'm going to run for Empress. :icon_queen: If elected, I will subjugate the masses in a kinder, gentler manner, feeling their pain and toasting marshmallows in 1000 points of light.
yikes
I think I saw the white lady's face from Lord of the Rings.
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:18 PM NHFT
since we don't do politics on this forum .... should we discuss this on the NHLA's forum, or would we we too radical? They might not be able to endorse our candidates, since they are so closely tied to the republicans.
The first thing I thought of when I started to read this thread was "Gee, ya think the NHLA would actually endorse or give money to a political candidate promoting *true* liberty?"
I think discussing this on the NHLA forum is a delightful idea. >:D Also open to other suggestions.
I've taken care of this.
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:50 PM NHFT
I'm going to run for Empress. :icon_queen: If elected, I will subjugate the masses in a kinder, gentler manner, feeling their pain and toasting marshmallows in 1000 points of light.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:55 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:50 PM NHFT
I'm going to run for Empress. :icon_queen: If elected, I will subjugate the masses in a kinder, gentler manner, feeling their pain and toasting marshmallows in 1000 points of light.
yikes
I think I saw the white lady's face from Lord of the Rings.
"In place of the Dark Lord, you would have a Queen, not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn. Treacherous as the Sea! Stronger than the foundations of the earth...all shall love me and despair! "
Yes, that will make a most excellent campaign speech. :)
"let them eat cake" is demure in comparison
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:25 PM NHFT
The first thing I thought of when I started to read this thread was "Gee, ya think the NHLA would actually endorse or give money to a political candidate promoting *true* liberty?"
I think discussing this on the NHLA forum is a delightful idea. >:D Also open to other suggestions.
I missed this post until Lloyd quoted it.
I don't want to discuss the FSParty's business here. It is probably not welcome on the FSProject's website. I don't want to put ask Kat to make me another forum. Maybe the NHLA's forum is ok ... or maybe they will boot us later. I don't know. I like Strike-the-Root, but it is not connected to NH.
If someone wanted to crank up a website, that would be great, but until then we could talk about it somewhere.
What do you guys think?
Man the party is not even up and running and already
power is corrupting.
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 09:06 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:55 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:50 PM NHFT
I'm going to run for Empress. :icon_queen: If elected, I will subjugate the masses in a kinder, gentler manner, feeling their pain and toasting marshmallows in 1000 points of light.
yikes
I think I saw the white lady's face from Lord of the Rings.
"In place of the Dark Lord, you would have a Queen, not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn. Treacherous as the Sea! Stronger than the foundations of the earth...all shall love me and despair! "
Yes, that will make a most excellent campaign speech. :)
(http://www.soberduck.com/TSHIRTSJPGS/Queen_Bee.jpg)
PatK can find us our campaign posters.
Now THIS is my kind of party! :pirateship:
Did I wake up in the wrong universe? ???
Quote from: error on January 05, 2009, 12:56 AM NHFT
Did I wake up in the wrong universe? ???
Didn't all of us do that?
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 12:09 PM NHFT
that will be up for a vote from the Party's headquarters in Grafton, NH
another will be secession during 2009 or 2010
other proposed line items?
I can't join the political party, but I like the idea. Some suggested platforms to add to secession (which I strongly support):
1. the drawing up of a constitution that is independently/individually subscribed to that doesn't seperate government and law (a system that was brought over from England - it's total crap. The biggest dingleberry in the USA government.)
2. constructing a volunteer type government, with no more payments/pensions, and very short terms, although not neccesarily any term limits for volunteers.
3. constructing a form of government that keeps current promises made to those already in the 'system', as self protection is a biological force, and without honoring payments to those who got into things for personal financial security, there would be immediate (and huge) resistance... put in a 'keep promises already made' part, though, and some might warm up to the idea (as long as their own security isn't threatened.) At least we'd know down the road, after those 'paid performers' age out/die, freedom and liberty would prevail.
4. adding a preamble that strictly outlines the role of government (as the Massachusetts state constitution did) of ONLY being a protector of the natural rights (not manmade rights) and self evident truths.
5. figuring out the rest of the 'among which' part of natural rights - I have already figured out one of the puzzle pieces ... the right to one's own charity (and/or the right to one's own good will towards mankind) - putting that one phrase into the natural rights section of the constitution would have eliminated a gigantic amount of the insanity we've gone through these past few hundred years, as it literally defines the difference between a constitutional republic/individual responsibility community and a socialistic society. It also keeps the 'human connection' that charity/volunteering is in its compassionate and sustainable place.
Personally, I think they left it out to keep the court systems alive and well - conflict of interest you get when a bunch of lawyers get together to draw up a constitution, be it state or federal. I have a love/hate relationship with John Adams - I want to wrap my mouth around him, but at the same time, I want to punch him right in the face and knee him in the groin for leaving out the right to one's own charity (because I'm almost positive HE KNEW.) He's lucky he's dead, but when I die, he will be confronted by me to explain why he did that to mankind. Jackass.
6. I think the Free State Project might get a little concerned about a political party being named after them when they cite on their website they aren't about political parties. I think Mr. Sorens would get kinda... mad? Or maybe just concerned. I agree an alternative to the Libertarian Party is long overdue, though. I will never be a member of the Libertarian Party again after their antics during this last election (and some heated emails and long phonecall discussions with LP heads.) And I completely agree with the no compromises part, no matter how radical it appears or sounds - Volunteer Party? I dunno - anything but Free State Party, I guess.
There's my ideas, anyways. Hope it makes some sense in between the ramble of it.
Quote from: Lumpy on January 05, 2009, 01:03 AM NHFT
Quote from: error on January 05, 2009, 12:56 AM NHFT
Did I wake up in the wrong universe? ???
Didn't all of us do that?
lol :)
right universe, wrong timeframe - wish we'd all been around during the founding of this nation. But maybe that's why we're here now. To form The Shire? Chance to get it right.
Rumor has it there will be radical candidates running in the city council race this year in Keene...
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 09:06 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:55 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on January 04, 2009, 08:50 PM NHFT
I'm going to run for Empress. :icon_queen: If elected, I will subjugate the masses in a kinder, gentler manner, feeling their pain and toasting marshmallows in 1000 points of light.
yikes
I think I saw the white lady's face from Lord of the Rings.
"In place of the Dark Lord, you would have a Queen, not dark, but beautiful and terrible as the Dawn. Treacherous as the Sea! Stronger than the foundations of the earth...all shall love me and despair! "
Yes, that will make a most excellent campaign speech. :)
....and honest!
Quote from: Lumpy on January 04, 2009, 11:32 PM NHFT
Now THIS is my kind of party! :pirateship:
what part do you want to play?
Quote from: error on January 05, 2009, 12:56 AM NHFT
Did I wake up in the wrong universe? ???
possibly .... I will have to soon take this discussion somewhere else :)
Quote from: BagOfEyebrows on January 05, 2009, 05:12 AM NHFT
right universe, wrong timeframe - wish we'd all been around during the founding of this nation. But maybe that's why we're here now. To form The Shire? Chance to get it right.
I think the differences between a voluntary society and government oppression go deeper than the phrases used in a constitution.
Quote from: BagOfEyebrows on January 05, 2009, 05:00 AM NHFT
I can't join the political party, but I like the idea. Some suggested platforms to add to secession (which I strongly support):
thanks for the ideas
Quote from: FreeKeene.com's Ian on January 05, 2009, 06:32 AM NHFT
Rumor has it there will be radical candidates running in the city council race this year in Keene...
can you point me to a thread on freekeene or something?
Perhaps:
The Shire Party
The Freedom Party
The Voluntary Party
The Granite State Party (Seth Cohn was considering this at one point)
The Radical Party
If you call it the Free State Party, some of those political members of the Free State Project who are engaged in the Republican and Democratic Parties may ruin it for the rest of us, by advocating for some larger continuation of government--and thus give people a mistaken idea about what members of this party stand for.
this project sounds like it could be a fun time. . . I think I know a few people who are not for government that would probably join a very radical party such as this, mostly because there is no where else that would ever take them.
I like Free State Party as much as I like the Freedom Party.
Quote from: ancapagency on January 05, 2009, 07:56 AM NHFT
Perhaps:
The Shire Party
If you call it the Free State Party, some of those political members of the Free State Project who are engaged in the Republican and Democratic Parties may ruin it for the rest of us, by advocating for some larger continuation of government--and thus give people a mistaken idea about what members of this party stand for.
The Shire is a voluntary society .... it grows as people join it ... not through party politics.
I am not worried. We will be able to get our radical message out. We can advertise and write letters to our own media outlets that reach much of our audience. As we have seen in the past, the radical elements usually make the noise and get the attention.
I also anticipate that we will get shafted by other political organizations, since they use force and we don't. We can revel in that instead of crying about lack of access to the ballot or debates.
We are the Free State Party .... and we are having a fun. :)
Quote from: AntonLee on January 05, 2009, 07:59 AM NHFT
this project sounds like it could be a fun time. . . I think I know a few people who are not for government that would probably join a very radical party such as this, mostly because there is no where else that would ever take them.
I like Free State Party as much as I like the Freedom Party.
We seem to be reaching our intended audience.
we could also have
"Free State Party"
"Fan Boy"
t-shirts :)
instead of being known as the party of Lincoln or some such ... we can be the party of Patrick Henry and Thomas Paine
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 05, 2009, 07:40 AM NHFT
Quote from: FreeKeene.com's Ian on January 05, 2009, 06:32 AM NHFT
Rumor has it there will be radical candidates running in the city council race this year in Keene...
can you point me to a thread on freekeene or something?
Bureaucrashing the Municipal Election : Ideas?
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=276.0
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:18 PM NHFT
since we don't do politics on this forum .... should we discuss this on the NHLA's forum, or would we we too radical? They might not be able to endorse our candidates, since they are so closely tied to the republicans.
Come on over. ;D
NHLA endorsement for new candidates is done via a questionnaire; for existing candidates, their voting record. And, we're non-partisan, so despite the fact that a lot of NHLA members are Republicans, we will endorse candidates from other parties,
e.g., Joel Winters (D) and the several L candidates that ran last year.
How about resurrecting the "Free Soil Party"?
Their moto was "Free Soil, Free Speech, Free Labor and Free Men"
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Soil (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_Soil)
NH's Abolitionist Senator John P. Hale was the party's nominee for President in 1852. He was a staunch opponent of Franklin Pierce who he lost the race to. Also, a staunch opponent of the Mexican-American War and one of the first openly anti-slavery Senators. Interestingly, his daughter was married to John Wilkes Booth - Honest Abe's assassin.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Hale (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._Hale)
You can tell that the country is ripe for a new party because over half the people in New Hampshire don't like either party, and I keep telling the Repuplicans that the party is dead, totally driven into the ground by GWB, and the best way out is to just create a new party. I like the quote that "the Republicans went from the party of Lincoln to the party of winkin'." Myself I kind of like being independent for now.
Quote from: error on January 05, 2009, 12:56 AM NHFT
Did I wake up in the wrong universe? ???
That's exactly what I was thinking. When Russell talks politics, all hope is lost. :o
Quote from: ancapagency on January 05, 2009, 07:56 AM NHFT
If you call it the Free State Party, some of those political members of the Free State Project who are engaged in the Republican and Democratic Parties may ruin it for the rest of us, by advocating for some larger continuation of government--and thus give people a mistaken idea about what members of this party stand for.
Wait a sec. Are you saying they're poisoning the well for us?!
Russell, I fully support the creation of truly pro-liberty political parties, even if only to make a statement. The more competition, the better.
However, seriously, I implore you to name it something other than the Free State Party.
The Free State Project is decidedly non-endorsing of any political action, much less a political party. Such non-alignment has benefitted the project and it's members greatly, and allows them to be part of the FSP and retain their own political beliefs and pursue their own projects with as little association/bias as possible.
An entity named the Free State Party would necessarily be conflated with the Free State Project, and is unarguably named in order to do so. As such, it would make our recruiting efforts and the endeavors of fellow porcupines more difficult.
To speak in your terms, why do such a disservice to fellow voluntaryist/anarchist/non-politicos within the Free State Project by associating and conflating the movement with the very thing they are fighting against?
Myself, and I'm sure many others, would be happy to assist and participate in such an endeavor, if only it were named something else. Still others would at least remain neutral or open to the idea. But if named the "Free State Party," many more would be compelled to disassociate with such an organization, if not outright oppose it.
I really don't want the latter. I want to work with other Porcupines, not against their efforts for the sake of the FSP.
Post Script: Call it the Porcupine Party even, and I'll be glad to help out. Besides, I think that has a better ring to it anyway.
It must be politics - the discussion has already devolved into a name debate! ;)
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on January 05, 2009, 11:25 AM NHFT
NHLA endorsement for new candidates is done via a questionnaire; for existing candidates, their voting record. And, we're non-partisan, so despite the fact that a lot of NHLA members are Republicans, we will endorse candidates from other parties, e.g., Joel Winters (D) and the several L candidates that ran last year.
There are several L candidates missing from the NHLA endorsed list.
hmmmmmm. hasn't russel proposed this idea before? 8)
Quote from: dalebert on January 05, 2009, 12:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: ancapagency on January 05, 2009, 07:56 AM NHFT
If you call it the Free State Party, some of those political members of the Free State Project who are engaged in the Republican and Democratic Parties may ruin it for the rest of us, by advocating for some larger continuation of government--and thus give people a mistaken idea about what members of this party stand for.
Wait a sec. Are you saying they're poisoning the well for us?!
Yep :)
Quote from: Friday on January 05, 2009, 01:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on January 05, 2009, 11:25 AM NHFT
NHLA endorsement for new candidates is done via a questionnaire; for existing candidates, their voting record. And, we're non-partisan, so despite the fact that a lot of NHLA members are Republicans, we will endorse candidates from other parties, e.g., Joel Winters (D) and the several L candidates that ran last year.
There are several L candidates missing from the NHLA endorsed list.
this is surprising to me, since a democrat and republican I've seen generally don't go as far as a libertarian. I would hope that the NHLA supported the MOST liberty loving people as opposed to someone who 'could win' from one of the lame parties.
Did the NHLA support the Mayor Frank Guinta? From what I've read of him he's quite a weasel.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on January 05, 2009, 11:25 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 08:18 PM NHFT
since we don't do politics on this forum .... should we discuss this on the NHLA's forum, or would we we too radical? They might not be able to endorse our candidates, since they are so closely tied to the republicans.
Come on over. ;D
sounds good
I just got my invite to the NHLA forum.
So gang (I mean those of you who are actually interested in starting a radical party) should we continue this discussion on the NHLA forum .... or do you have a better idea?
Quote from: BillKauffman on January 05, 2009, 11:45 AM NHFT
How about resurrecting the "Free Soil Party"?
I will leave that to the eminent NH scholar Bill Grennon. Isn't he here somewhere?
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 05, 2009, 04:41 PM NHFT
Quote from: BillKauffman on January 05, 2009, 11:45 AM NHFT
How about resurrecting the "Free Soil Party"?
I will leave that to the eminent NH scholar Bill Grennon. Isn't he here somewhere?
Never fear the
real Bill Grennon is here!
Like my daddy used to say "Ain't nothin'
free except bad advice."
Quote from: www on January 05, 2009, 11:54 AM NHFTMyself I kind of like being independent for now.
enjoy your independence
Quote from: dalebert on January 05, 2009, 12:26 PM NHFT
That's exactly what I was thinking. When Russell talks politics, all hope is lost. :o
does it help that it is fun politics .... it is the free state Party after all? :)
Quote from: dalebert on January 05, 2009, 12:26 PM NHFT
Wait a sec. Are you saying they're poisoning the well for us?!
we have the cure :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 05, 2009, 07:39 AM NHFT
Quote from: BagOfEyebrows on January 05, 2009, 05:12 AM NHFT
right universe, wrong timeframe - wish we'd all been around during the founding of this nation. But maybe that's why we're here now. To form The Shire? Chance to get it right.
I think the differences between a voluntary society and government oppression go deeper than the phrases used in a constitution.
I agree, but I think words and documents (re: bibles, constitutons) are what most folks seek as a life guide - if we don't construct something for folks to agree upon and feel a part of, the 'masses' (who basically do desire leadership and 'rules') will have no other option than the documents they have been given (which suck.)
G. Edward Griffin made a good point about this - people like you and others on this forum (including myself) don't want to run people's lives (politically or law-wise) or have control of any sort politically - yet - find themselves in leadership posititions, of some sort, over and over again, in other areas of their lives, without even meaning to or trying.
Here's the thing, though - Leadership doesn't have to be about control or running things, I've found - the best leadership comes from individuals who literally create a positive spirit in those around them, boosting moral and confidence, and genuinely recognizing and supporting good 'work' and applauding independence to achieve not only the best an individual can offer, but for 'the whole' of the thing, as a total, they are leading. (does that make any sense? I'm rambling. My husband leads like that at work.)
the word 'constitution' is a powerful word (even the U.N. has one, as does the Bar Association) - through the use of a word (re: constitution) people will understand what is trying to be done is to establish a 'life guide' (for politics, in this case.) We'd have to get people to understand and subscribe to this philosophy of self governing - the current state constitutions and federal constitutions, although they tried, failed at doing so and have now got us (and mankind as a whole) backed into a really screwy corner. This can fit into an anarchist platform, in terms of self governing within a known variable of 'the masses' that prefer 'documentation' of what it is they are supposed to be doing. If it's something individually and personally agreed to and subscribed to (volunteer government only there for the purpose of recognizing and supporting the desires of 'most' to have 'something' to follow as a guideline.)
Where some don't need that at all, most do - we've gotta come to peace with that. If it gets the mases on board with liberty and freedom, and I strongly think they only struggle with the concepts because they know of no other way, liberty and freedom, after a while, wouldn't even need 'documentation', they'd be the common sense concepts they actually are - passed down from generation to generation. You'd need less and less volunteers to run a town or city or state as time went by - it's just the start of a process. Within the knowns, as they are - and if there's one thing I know for certain, it's that people do WANT liberty and freedom, they just don't fully understand how they would work or what the 'guide' would look like.
Creating a common sense guide for those who need that kinda thing - but just calling it a constitution.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 05, 2009, 07:40 AM NHFT
Quote from: BagOfEyebrows on January 05, 2009, 05:00 AM NHFT
I can't join the political party, but I like the idea. Some suggested platforms to add to secession (which I strongly support):
thanks for the ideas
hope they help - I think a new party is a great idea. You form one and I'll spread it around here in my neck fo the woods.
Quote from: ancapagency on January 05, 2009, 07:56 AM NHFT
Perhaps:
The Shire Party
The Granite State Party (Seth Cohn was considering this at one point)
those two are really, really good.
Quote from: Neal Jiutai on January 05, 2009, 01:05 PM NHFT
Russell, I fully support the creation of truly pro-liberty political parties, even if only to make a statement. The more competition, the better.
thanks
QuoteHowever, seriously, I implore you to name it something other than the Free State Party.
Sorry .... the volunteers have spoken.
Quote
The Free State Project is decidedly non-endorsing of any political action, much less a political party.
That is why we will not expect an endorsment from them.
Quote
An entity named the Free State Party would necessarily be conflated with the Free State Project, and is unarguably named in order to do so. As such, it would make our recruiting efforts and the endeavors of fellow porcupines more difficult.
its a feature :)
People wanted a Free State Party and we are giving it to me.
Quote
To speak in your terms, why do such a disservice to fellow voluntaryist/anarchist/non-politicos within the Free State Project by associating and conflating the movement with the very thing they are fighting against?
I don't quite understand .... voluntaryists should be able to distance themselves easily from the Free State Party. Maybe they can be small f's and s's free staters.
Quote
Myself, and I'm sure many others, would be happy to assist and participate in such an endeavor, if only it were named something else. Still others would at least remain neutral or open to the idea. But if named the "Free State Party," many more would be compelled to disassociate with such an organization, if not outright oppose it.
actually that is another feature of the Free State Party .... those who are not ready for our style of radical and fun politics will exclude themselves. Some of you guys might be too politically savvy and might be dragged down by our strident stands and sophomoric stunts. We wish you well.
Quote
Post Script: Call it the Porcupine Party even, and I'll be glad to help out. Besides, I think that has a better ring to it anyway.
I think that might be a great name for your Party.
as for me "Give me the Free State, or give me death!"
Quote from: FreeKeene.com's Ian on January 05, 2009, 01:09 PM NHFT
It must be politics - the discussion has already devolved into a name debate! ;)
you are so right .... as soon as you make an organization let alone an extreme libertarian party, you will have debate and conflict. Luckily our current core of volunteers are united under the Free State Party banner. :)
Quote from: Friday on January 05, 2009, 01:25 PM NHFT
There are several L candidates missing from the NHLA endorsed list.
didn't we put you in charge of that for the Free State Party? We can avoid those kinds of oversights. :)
Quote from: Caleb on January 05, 2009, 01:51 PM NHFT
hmmmmmm. hasn't russel proposed this idea before? 8)
I have always endorsed the idea, when others have brought it up before. I think I have even jokingly proposed it before.
But I figure why not actually do it and have fun in the process. It will inspire and tweak all the right people.
Quote from: AntonLee on January 05, 2009, 02:35 PM NHFTI would hope that the NHLA supported the MOST liberty loving people as opposed to someone who 'could win' from one of the lame parties.
Did the NHLA support the Mayor Frank Guinta? From what I've read of him he's quite a weasel.
we can't change the NHLA, but we can support the good guys with the Free State Party
I am afraid the volunteers say that Guinta is too closely tied to the establishment to pass the rigorous Free State Party test.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 05, 2009, 05:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: AntonLee on January 05, 2009, 02:35 PM NHFT
Did the NHLA support the Mayor Frank Guinta? From what I've read of him he's quite a weasel.
I am afraid the volunteers say that Guinta is too closely tied to the establishment to pass the rigorous Free State Party test.
His tirade over a state rep voting in favor of marijuana reform comes to mind - trying to get them fired if I recall.
after a little while the volunteers will have a website and forum up for us to enjoy ... until then we can tempt fate and hope the forum nazis don't catch us talking politics.
I just can't drag down anyone (like the NHLA) with our crazy plans.
Quote from: AntonLee on January 05, 2009, 02:35 PM NHFT
Did the NHLA support the Mayor Frank Guinta?
As far as I know the NHLA is mostly about State politics and doesn't do much in the area of local politics. It's possible that some members of the NHLA supported Guinta for Mayor.
oh
I guess the Free State Party will be concerned with anything effecting NH residents and those who live in the Shire
Is the Free State Party going to actually "register" as a in-the-system party?
::)
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 05, 2009, 08:42 PM NHFT
::)
It's a test. If he says yes, I suggest taking his temperature - something is truly awry. :o
Russell, you realize you're supposed to do this on April 1st, right?
Quote from: ancapagency on January 05, 2009, 07:56 AM NHFT
The Granite State Party (Seth Cohn was considering this at one point)
And still is... most NH people are sick of politics for a bit after the long long long election cycle, but once things relax a bit, I'll be working on this more...
And I still want to know what happened to the REAL Russell Kanning. This is like some weird government robot or maybe a manchurian clone. Kat, are you sure you got the right Russell last time they released him?
The real Russell has always had a penchant for satire and mockery. ;)
Quote from: Caleb on January 05, 2009, 10:08 PM NHFT
The real Russell has always had a penchant for satire and mockery. ;)
And lord knows, I'm serious about government robots and manchurian clones. ::)
Quote from: FreeKeene.com's Ian on January 05, 2009, 08:32 PM NHFT
Is the Free State Party going to actually "register" as a in-the-system party?
I don't why
The volunteers can't take time to visit government offices when they are getting out the liberty message. :)
Quote from: dalebert on January 05, 2009, 09:58 PM NHFT
Russell, you realize you're supposed to do this on April 1st, right?
since it is not a joke ... the volunteers said we should do this January 1st
Quote from: Caleb on January 05, 2009, 10:08 PM NHFT
The real Russell has always had a penchant for satire and mockery. ;)
that is part of the point
so what kinds of colors and logos and such can we come up with
that is something to be decided over 30 or so meetings. No need to rush.
Quote from: AntonLee on January 06, 2009, 12:49 PM NHFT
that is something to be decided over 30 or so meetings. No need to rush.
actually ... I wouldn't be surprised if it was already done before our first meeting. :)
so you're serious? ;D
absolutely
so do you want to be part of this fun undertaking?
I'm always down for fun times.
The Free State Party has all the inertia of a drunken ballerina and all the inevitability of a July snowstorm. Count me in!
we will have a website done in a few days I would guess ... I will let people know how to join us from this thread though :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 06, 2009, 08:27 AM NHFT
Quote from: Caleb on January 05, 2009, 10:08 PM NHFT
The real Russell has always had a penchant for satire and mockery. ;)
that is part of the point
Maybe someone needs to hit the ground running with the "Free Lunch Party" as the opposition.
Two extreme groups in the heat of debating battle say, outside of the "real" debates where the "real" candidates won't let you in, would be newsworthy.
Satire, mockery and free publicity...
lol the STATIST Party
Quote from: bigmike on January 06, 2009, 09:09 PM NHFT
Maybe someone needs to hit the ground running with the "Free Lunch Party" as the opposition.
Two extreme groups in the heat of debating battle say, outside of the "real" debates where the "real" candidates won't let you in, would be newsworthy.
Satire, mockery and free publicity...
they might already exist
I know California had Green and socialist, maybe even commie parties.
Some guys inside the Free State Party might really enjoy debates like that. I don't really do debates. It could be funny.
The fun with our stuph is that we actually believe this freedom thing will work, so we can passionately advocate it ... especially if we are not having to please a national party which is part of the problem.
I believe the freedom this is the ONLY thing that can work.
[/quote]they might already exist
I know California had Green and socialist, maybe even commie parties.
Some guys inside the Free State Party might really enjoy debates like that. I don't really do debates. It could be funny.
The fun with our stuph is that we actually believe this freedom thing will work, so we can passionately advocate it ... especially if we are not having to please a national party which is part of the problem.
[/quote]
I used to get emails from a new party group that wanted to recruit Ron Paul in 2012 to have a three point platform consisting of taxes as theft and constitutionally illegal, monetary policy and a third, yet undecided, hot-button issue that most Americans agreed with. I'm not for voting, but it would be fun to watch if they got some attention.
On a smaller, state level this idea of yours Russell could be fun, and entertaining. To me, having gone into the trenches of political campaigning in my past life, it's a doable idea if someone were to take it serious. But I think it would be better to have a new anti-freedom party rather than the Greens or socialist. Free Lunch Party sounded funnier.
if there were an ANTI-Free State Party they could easily get their game plan from "change.org"
Save the trees, making new laws against cutting down any vegetation!
exactly .... it is quite possible our opponents will just rise out of nowhere and be really funny
I'm wondering...
Say we were to have an Anti-Freedom Party as a counter to the Free State Party--and the speakers for the AFP were to stand up and argue for the various things that the Dems and Reps and Greens and so forth want--but to argue for them all on the basis of "People are too stupid to run their own lives" and such. Do you think that might wake some folks up to the real reasoning behind what the other parties are doing and saying? Might such a thing be worth the effort?
Examples:
AFP Candidate says: "We need to continue and expand the War on Drugs. People are too stupid to know what they should and should not put into their bodies, and education won't help--they're too stupid for the education to work. Therefore, we need to throw people in jail if they choose to ingest anything we don't approve of for them in advance. "
"We need to raise existing taxes and pass new ones. Everyone belongs to the state, and they don't need any more money than to pay for their basic needs. Everything else should go to the government, so it can provide all the services that people are too stupid to buy for themselves or to do on their own."
"We need to force everyone to do 'National Service.' People are too stupid to know where they should work and what they should do, so the government should step in and tell them. Everyone is belongs to the government anyway, and it would probably be more efficient if we just made them work directly for the government, rather than letting them look for their own jobs and just pay taxes on what they earn."
the party of principle! The Free State Party
run the AFP to "save the children".
Quote from: ancapagency on January 07, 2009, 07:29 AM NHFT
I'm wondering...
Say we were to have an Anti-Freedom Party as a counter to the Free State Party--and the speakers for the AFP were to stand up and argue for the various things that the Dems and Reps and Greens and so forth want--but to argue for them all on the basis of "People are too stupid to run their own lives" and such. Do you think that might wake some folks up to the real reasoning behind what the other parties are doing and saying? Might such a thing be worth the effort?
Examples:
AFP Candidate says: "We need to continue and expand the War on Drugs. People are too stupid to know what they should and should not put into their bodies, and education won't help--they're too stupid for the education to work. Therefore, we need to throw people in jail if they choose to ingest anything we don't approve of for them in advance. "
"We need to raise existing taxes and pass new ones. Everyone belongs to the state, and they don't need any more money than to pay for their basic needs. Everything else should go to the government, so it can provide all the services that people are too stupid to buy for themselves or to do on their own."
"We need to force everyone to do 'National Service.' People are too stupid to know where they should work and what they should do, so the government should step in and tell them. Everyone is belongs to the government anyway, and it would probably be more efficient if we just made them work directly for the government, rather than letting them look for their own jobs and just pay taxes on what they earn."
this is exactly where i was trying to go with the free lunch party. do it as comedy, make it look ridiculous.
I'm not sure what frightens me the most about this thread.
Quotethis is exactly where i was trying to go with the free lunch party. do it as comedy, make it look ridiculous.
The problem is... I've actually heard (and in some cases, even said!) some of those things. I really did, at one point, believe people too stupid to run their lives without harming mine. The problem with politics is that it attracts the kind of people who want to control others. Beware, the statists have MUCH more practice controlling the lives of others by force than the Libertarians do. You might just see the FLP replace the Republicans in 2012 if it actually happens. :S
for me .... the focus would be what the Free State Party would actually like to see happen (the government lose power and people live peacefully with each other). That way I don't have to play a part or advocate bad stuff.
you're probably right, we most likely wouldn't need actors playing Free Lunch Party people, advocating for the radical side of statism. . .because. . .well, they're already out there
if you want to see: www.change.org
I just want to have fun with people who promote freedom, true freedom in a voluntary society. I found it, so it can't be that hard for others to as well. Spreading the message doesn't have to include running for office in my book. . .but if someone were to run on a platform that makes Ron Paul seem like a run of the mill douchebag politician. . . I'd be all for helping that person.
I just don't want to be anywhere near elected, ever.
Quote from: Friday on January 05, 2009, 01:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on January 05, 2009, 11:25 AM NHFT
NHLA endorsement for new candidates is done via a questionnaire; for existing candidates, their voting record. And, we're non-partisan, so despite the fact that a lot of NHLA members are Republicans, we will endorse candidates from other parties, e.g., Joel Winters (D) and the several L candidates that ran last year.
There are several L candidates missing from the NHLA endorsed list.
Which ones? I can check to see if we received their questionnaires or not.
Quote from: AntonLee on January 05, 2009, 02:35 PM NHFT
Did the NHLA support the Mayor Frank Guinta? From what I've read of him he's quite a weasel.
No. That's not even a State office.
Quote from: AntonLee on January 07, 2009, 04:15 PM NHFTSpreading the message doesn't have to include running for office in my book. . .but if someone were to run on a platform that makes Ron Paul seem like a run of the mill douchebag politician. . . I'd be all for helping that person.
that is exactly what I am thinking.
some guys will want to run, some of us will just help, we will all make fun of the bad guys and have great parties.
if I ever happened to win a small election, I could advocate the most radical stuph and get kicked out. :)
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on January 07, 2009, 05:04 PM NHFT
Quote from: AntonLee on January 05, 2009, 02:35 PM NHFT
Did the NHLA support the Mayor Frank Guinta? From what I've read of him he's quite a weasel.
No. That's not even a State office.
I didn't know you were only limited to State offices, I thought you guys also did locals. My bad, thanks for clarifying.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 07, 2009, 05:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: AntonLee on January 07, 2009, 04:15 PM NHFTSpreading the message doesn't have to include running for office in my book. . .but if someone were to run on a platform that makes Ron Paul seem like a run of the mill douchebag politician. . . I'd be all for helping that person.
that is exactly what I am thinking.
some guys will want to run, some of us will just help, we will all make fun of the bad guys and have great parties.
if I ever happened to win a small election, I could advocate the most radical stuph and get kicked out. :)
I'm sold and now I have to figure out what I can do to help.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 07, 2009, 05:34 PM NHFT
if I ever happened to win a small election, I could advocate the most radical stuph and get kicked out.
I doubt you would get kicked out for just advocating stuff - and it would be a real welcome change to have you doing that. Lets see, what could you advocate, succession, release of all prisoners, zero out the budget for two years, repeal of all laws (that one was already introduced). I think one of my priorities would be to go back to biennial sessions. This introducing bills every year is nonsense.
Quote from: AntonLee on January 07, 2009, 06:24 AM NHFT
Save the trees, making new laws against cutting down any vegetation!
How bout "Save the trees - Outlaw legislation!" :)
Think of all the trees who had to give their lives so stupid laws could be written on them. It's an outrage! An outrage, I say. ;D
if you think I'm kidding you can go to Change.org (pepto bismo or tums handy) and check out what THE PEOPLE want!
No more cutting down of trees, eating of any meat, eating of any vegetables, no unpasturized milk, removal of guns, etc.
Quote from: AntonLee on January 07, 2009, 05:53 PM NHFT
I'm sold and now I have to figure out what I can do to help.
for me, this is a new stuph, so it will take a while for me to figure out what best to do.
we will be feeling our way forward :)
Quote from: www on January 07, 2009, 07:15 PM NHFT
I doubt you would get kicked out for just advocating stuff - and it would be a real welcome change to have you doing that. Lets see, what could you advocate, succession, release of all prisoners, zero out the budget for two years, repeal of all laws (that one was already introduced). I think one of my priorities would be to go back to biennial sessions. This introducing bills every year is nonsense.
well ... it would depend on the office
are you are referring to a state legislative office?
Quote from: Caleb on January 07, 2009, 08:14 PM NHFT
How bout "Save the trees - Outlaw legislation!" :)
also we can't advocate using computers for government work ... think of the landfills
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 07, 2009, 08:24 PM NHFT
Quote from: www on January 07, 2009, 07:15 PM NHFT
I doubt you would get kicked out for just advocating stuff - and it would be a real welcome change to have you doing that. Lets see, what could you advocate, succession, release of all prisoners, zero out the budget for two years, repeal of all laws (that one was already introduced). I think one of my priorities would be to go back to biennial sessions. This introducing bills every year is nonsense.
well ... it would depend on the office
are you are referring to a state legislative office?
Yes - house, senate - one of those. I suppose if you ran for sheriff you could get thrown out for advocating any number of things.
exactly .... I think if you were just one of 400 state reps you could propose some really different stuph and they could just ignore you or something
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on January 07, 2009, 05:02 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on January 05, 2009, 01:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on January 05, 2009, 11:25 AM NHFT
NHLA endorsement for new candidates is done via a questionnaire; for existing candidates, their voting record. And, we're non-partisan, so despite the fact that a lot of NHLA members are Republicans, we will endorse candidates from other parties, e.g., Joel Winters (D) and the several L candidates that ran last year.
There are several L candidates missing from the NHLA endorsed list.
Which ones? I can check to see if we received their questionnaires or not.
This webpage lists all (I think) the L candidates in the last election: http://www.lpnh.org/Election_2008.html (http://www.lpnh.org/Election_2008.html)
Quote from: AntonLee on January 07, 2009, 08:17 PM NHFT
if you think I'm kidding you can go to Change.org (pepto bismo or tums handy) and check out what THE PEOPLE want!
No more cutting down of trees, eating of any meat, eating of any vegetables, no unpasturized milk, removal of guns, etc.
No more BACON?! Fuckin' Commies!!! :soapbox:
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 07, 2009, 08:23 PM NHFT
Quote from: AntonLee on January 07, 2009, 05:53 PM NHFT
I'm sold and now I have to figure out what I can do to help.
for me, this is a new stuph, so it will take a while for me to figure out what best to do.
we will be feeling our way forward :)
Can you feel your way forward, with rubber gloved hands if you have to, to changing the name to The Shire Party? :blush:
the Shire has parties
NH has the Free State Party
it is not up to me ... the volunteers are very insistent that they want and will have the Free State Party
Quote from: Caleb on January 07, 2009, 08:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: AntonLee on January 07, 2009, 06:24 AM NHFT
Save the trees, making new laws against cutting down any vegetation!
How bout "Save the trees - Outlaw legislation!" :)
Think of all the trees who had to give their lives so stupid laws could be written on them. It's an outrage! An outrage, I say. ;D
Didn't you hear? Computers are gonna put an end to paper waste!
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 09, 2009, 05:36 AM NHFT
it is not up to me ... the volunteers are very insistent that they want and will have the Free State Party
Something tells me the politicos are going to regret two things.
1) Endlessly insisting that the apoliticos get politically active.
2) Complaining that the apoliticos with their "extremist" views are constantly associating themselves with the FSP
:icon_pirat:
:icon_pirat:
exactly
when people thing freestater I want them to think ... radical politics
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 10, 2009, 09:09 PM NHFT
exactly
when people thing freestater I want them to think ... radical politics
You're just a little bit evil, Russell, and I love it.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 10, 2009, 09:09 PM NHFT
exactly
when people thing freestater I want them to think ... radical politics
All political Freestaters practice Radical Politics. Where has your support been for them?
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 11, 2009, 07:27 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 10, 2009, 09:09 PM NHFT
exactly
when people thing freestater I want them to think ... radical politics
All political Freestaters practice Radical Politics. Where has your support been for them?
A number of political Freestaters, including Grafton's own Tim C., support the War in Iraq and a more widespread War on "Islamofascism". What's so radical about that (unless what you mean is radically f-ed up)?
P.S. Kat's right, you *have* been cranky lately. Man cave fever?
:puke:
iraq war ::lloyds::
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 11, 2009, 07:27 AM NHFT
All political Freestaters practice Radical Politics. Where has your support been for them?
right here
now I am even helping some of them have their own party :)
when someone I know proposes radical changes to the government (like killing it), I support them, especially if I live in the same town as them ... I just don't have that much time or money to help them
Quote from: Friday on January 11, 2009, 08:44 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 11, 2009, 07:27 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 10, 2009, 09:09 PM NHFT
exactly
when people thing freestater I want them to think ... radical politics
All political Freestaters practice Radical Politics. Where has your support been for them?
A number of political Freestaters, including Grafton's own Tim C., support the War in Iraq and a more widespread War on "Islamofascism". What's so radical about that (unless what you mean is radically f-ed up)?
P.S. Kat's right, you *have* been cranky lately. Man cave fever?
You're right about Tim. He is hardly the average political Porc, though. One thing I have noticed about the politicos that I know, is they aren't conducting a campaign to discourage folks from participating in CD.
I was going to resist the return of politico vs. the outside the system debate (again). But felt I had to chime in. I have supported Porcs that ran for office, held signs, made videos. I have to say though that I have received more flack from the political side of the movement. I will still give my support on a case by case basis, if I like the person, but many of the politico folks don't like it if you don't join their gang ie. 'You're either with us or against us'.
Being "sold" or pressured to join the gang is the major turnoff I had toward the FSP. It's like a political version of Amway ;D Driving hundreds of miles and spending hundreds of dollars to work was all negated by me not instantly declaring my alliance to support some run of the mill Republican politician. ::)
that is because CD is good and politics are bad ... they are not 2 equal paths to happiness. :)
soooo
I am thinking we could have our first face to face meeting of the Free State Party in Concord soon. Does Liberty Books or Red Apple Buffet sound better?
btw ... the volunteers are very eager that our numbers be as high as possible, so
:lockstep:
we are going to have to have you all sign a loyalty oath within the next few days or there will be consequences.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 12, 2009, 07:24 AM NHFT
I was going to resist the return of politico vs. the outside the system debate (again). But felt I had to chime in. I have supported Porcs that ran for office, held signs, made videos. I have to say though that I have received more flack from the political side of the movement. I will still give my support on a case by case basis, if I like the person, but many of the politico folks don't like it if you don't join their gang ie. 'You're either with us or against us'.
Being "sold" or pressured to join the gang is the major turnoff I had toward the FSP. It's like a political version of Amway ;D Driving hundreds of miles and spending hundreds of dollars to work was all negated by me not instantly declaring my alliance to support some run of the mill Republican politician. ::)
Again. I don't see any political types (around me)actively encouraging CD activists to stop their CD or encouraging others not to participate. I'm not talking about people like Seth. I'm talking about the people around me, some with a lot of legal knowledge, (not Tim) who, often, say, "Way To Go!" about the CD, but, then add, "But, why didn't they do this or carry it further or follow it with a lawsuit?" "Where was the press?"
I don't have a dog in this fight. I'm never going to live in Freedom and I don't have any children.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:53 AM NHFT
I'm never going to live in Freedom and I don't have any children.
That's the spirit, Lloyd! :D
Gee, I thought only women went through menopause... manopause? >:D
Lloyd, I've already explained to you that we're going to scan your neuron-pattern and download your consciousness after you die into the immortality super computer and call that matrix-world "Lloydville".
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 12, 2009, 07:31 AM NHFT
btw ... the volunteers are very eager that our numbers be as high as possible, so
:lockstep:
we are going to have to have you all sign a loyalty oath within the next few days or there will be consequences.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 12, 2009, 08:54 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:53 AM NHFT
I'm never going to live in Freedom and I don't have any children.
That's the spirit, Lloyd! :D
OK, must stop reading this thread while at work; have had to disguise too many LOLs as coughing fits and fear management is catching on. :Bolt:
anyway ... I am having lots of fun thinking about the stuph we can do through the Free State Party.
I don't imagine we will be doing CD or taking the government to court.
Quote from: dalebert on January 12, 2009, 10:04 AM NHFT
Lloyd, I've already explained to you that we're going to scan your neuron-pattern and download your consciousness after you die into the immortality super computer and call that matrix-world "Lloydville".
Nobody, especially you, is getting a hold of any parts of me when I die.
Statement of Intent
I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:08 PM NHFT
Nobody, especially you, is getting a hold of any parts of me when I die.
Can we get ahold of your parts while you're still alive? :-*
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:15 PM NHFT
Statement of Intent
I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.
For the love of god make him stop!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Mike, don't make me move this to the TMI thread. :o :P
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: dalebert on January 12, 2009, 10:04 AM NHFT
Lloyd, I've already explained to you that we're going to scan your neuron-pattern and download your consciousness after you die into the immortality super computer and call that matrix-world "Lloydville".
Nobody, especially you, is getting a hold of any parts of me when I die.
That's funny... in California, I had my driver's license marked that they could take whatever parts they wanted if I died. But they don't give you that option in NH. I'd hate to see my parts go to waste. Maybe Dale can make muffins out of them? :P
Quote from: Friday on January 12, 2009, 07:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: dalebert on January 12, 2009, 10:04 AM NHFT
Lloyd, I've already explained to you that we're going to scan your neuron-pattern and download your consciousness after you die into the immortality super computer and call that matrix-world "Lloydville".
Nobody, especially you, is getting a hold of any parts of me when I die.
That's funny... in California, I had my driver's license marked that they could take whatever parts they wanted if I died. But they don't give you that option in NH. I'd hate to see my parts go to waste. Maybe Dale can make muffins out of them? :P
I was going to say something here.
But I find I am to fond of living. ;D
Today's recurring theme is muffins...
I'll ask the congregation to open their hymnals to page 87
And I quoteth
...he said "you ain't seen nothin' till you're down on a muffin
then you're sure to be a-changin' your ways"
Quote from: Mike Barskey on January 12, 2009, 07:17 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:08 PM NHFT
Nobody, especially you, is getting a hold of any parts of me when I die.
Can we get ahold of your parts while you're still alive? :-*
Neither you
nor Dale!
And let's not forget Zappa 10:77
"Some people... some people like cupcakes exclusively, while myself, I say
There is naught nor ought there be nothing so exalted on the face of gods grey
Earth as that prince of foods... the muffin!"
Quote from: Friday on January 12, 2009, 07:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: dalebert on January 12, 2009, 10:04 AM NHFT
Lloyd, I've already explained to you that we're going to scan your neuron-pattern and download your consciousness after you die into the immortality super computer and call that matrix-world "Lloydville".
Nobody, especially you, is getting a hold of any parts of me when I die.
That's funny... in California, I had my driver's license marked that they could take whatever parts they wanted if I died. But they don't give you that option in NH. I'd hate to see my parts go to waste. Maybe Dale can make muffins out of them? :P
I hear that. . . send me to africa. . . I'll feed them for a month if they can get over the whole cannibalism thing. I'm not being collectivist. . .I'll literally feed the entire continent ;D
Quote from: Mike Barskey on January 12, 2009, 08:20 PM NHFT
And let's not forget Zappa 10:77
"Some people... some people like cupcakes exclusively, while myself, I say
There is naught nor ought there be nothing so exalted on the face of gods grey
Earth as that prince of foods... the muffin!"
8) :D
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:15 PM NHFT
Statement of Intent
I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.
Does this mean you will or will not be bringing muffins to the first meeting?
I am thinking of having our first short get-to-gether on Saturday in Concord at Liberty Books. Muffins may be served.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 13, 2009, 03:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 12, 2009, 07:15 PM NHFT
Statement of Intent
I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.
Does this mean you will or will not be bringing muffins to the first meeting?
I sent them on, ahead.
ok good
I am so down for this. I really want to do a Keene Bureaucrash '09, where all the Keene residents make 98% joke runs for city council.
aha
I guess we might have similar goals.
But some of the Free State Party volunteers will be making serious runs for office, with serious intentions once they win.
And there will be room for some of us who might do "joke runs".
I am assuming you are planning this on freekeene.com ... if not you are welcome to promote it on thefreestateparty.com
the website is functioning with a forum
http://TheFreeStateParty.com
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 13, 2009, 07:30 AM NHFT
ok good
The guy from Liberty Books called. Said your muffins and your humor are getting stale ;D
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2009, 07:34 AM NHFT
the website is functioning with a forum
http://TheFreeStateParty.com
God help us all. :drevil: :_meteor_guy__by_ChaosEmeraldH
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2009, 07:34 AM NHFT
the website is functioning with a forum
http://TheFreeStateParty.com
I started to create a user account on the new forum and was presented with this:
"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law."
I'm afraid I'm unwilling to agree to almost every adjective in that sentence.
Quote from: Friday on January 14, 2009, 08:08 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2009, 07:34 AM NHFT
the website is functioning with a forum
http://TheFreeStateParty.com
I started to create a user account on the new forum and was presented with this:
"You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive, vulgar, hateful, harassing, obscene, profane, sexually oriented, threatening, invasive of a person's privacy, adult material, or otherwise in violation of any International or United States Federal law."
I'm afraid I'm unwilling to agree to almost every adjective in that sentence.
I guess that is a default feature ... that we will have to get rid of.
any ideas for a better agreement?
Thou shall not break the unwritten rules.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2009, 09:46 AM NHFT
any ideas for a better agreement?
I agree to not initiate aggression.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2009, 09:46 AM NHFT
any ideas for a better agreement?
Here are some ideas, but I'm not 100% certain I agree with myself :P
I understand that sticks and stones may break my bones, but words will never hurt me unless I let them. I agree that, if I don't like the opinions of other users, I am free to ignore them or to leave. [but I don't think slander should be tolerated, so...?]
I agree not to advocate or promote violence, or to applaud others who are doing so. The Free State Party is opposed to the initiation of force and fraud.
I agree not to post information about other forum users which may cause the gooberment to pursue and/or harm them. [my thinking here is, for example, if Joe LibertyGuy grows weed or evades taxes, it's not for others to post that in a place where it could cause him to get busted. Joe is free to post that about himself, though.]
[] I Agree
Do you want a serious agreement or a funny serious agreement?
I had already cut it down. I like Friday's additions, so I am putting them in.
serious ... and funny is good
What's the final word from the volunteers on the registration agreement?
Quote from: Mike Barskey on January 14, 2009, 11:11 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2009, 09:46 AM NHFT
any ideas for a better agreement?
I agree to not initiate aggression.
I also like that one ... we might want to go with a really simple one like that.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 14, 2009, 02:58 PM NHFT
What's the final word from the volunteers on the registration agreement?
Works for me (Russell even left in my parenthetical aside :laughing1:); I'm just waiting to be approved.
Quote from: Friday on January 14, 2009, 06:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 14, 2009, 02:58 PM NHFT
What's the final word from the volunteers on the registration agreement?
Works for me (Russell even left in my parenthetical aside :laughing1:); I'm just waiting to be approved.
woops ... I let you in and will fix it .... the volunteers didn't make me do that one :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2009, 07:34 AM NHFT
the website is functioning with a forum
http://TheFreeStateParty.com
Another forum! ;D
Registering...
Quote from: dalebert on January 09, 2009, 10:44 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 09, 2009, 05:36 AM NHFT
it is not up to me ... the volunteers are very insistent that they want and will have the Free State Party
Something tells me the politicos are going to regret two things.
1) Endlessly insisting that the apoliticos get politically active.
2) Complaining that the apoliticos with their "extremist" views are constantly associating themselves with the FSP
:icon_pirat:
You know what Dale,
1. I will never get politically active.
2. I might as well disassociate myself from the FSP then (and encourage other apoliticos to do so) and their little problem is solved.
I think what Russel is doing here is almost ludicrous. I thought he was a voluntaryist. Even if all of this was just a joke I consider it to be a very bad one.
Russel, after so many times being caged for asserting your own rights you come around and start talking their language. I honestly feel that this turn of events is a sign of erosion of this project and this movement. I still want to come to NH though. In fact this motivates me even more to come, but in order to OPPOSE all political action just as I oppose all coercion. I want to start a Voluntaryist Lands Project and proceed with a combination of all kinds of apolitical activity, from building wealth in hands of voluntaryists to sway capital investments in favor of propagandizing voluntaryist ideas to agorism and good old civil disobedience, but no compromise with the state and politics whatsoever is to be principally tolerated.
The only way to win liberty is to de-legitimize government's coercion, NOT to start speaking their language and actually become a part of that same coercive monopoly. Even if you're attempting to do so only to turn it into a non-coercive organization, you're facing a corrupt and self-preserving system in combination with your own potential for corruption (power corrupts). You are seeking power over others in order to stop anyone having power over others. ::)
I may tolerate other people having different strategies in pursuit of liberty (however they conceptualize it), but I reserve the right to loudly criticize those strategies which I feel are either misleading, harmful or least heinously, inefficient. I also reserve the right to call for competition to such strategies.
I just hope I can come to NH within 2010 at least, cause this shouting over the ocean while being stuck in this statist sh*thole called "croatia" is beginning to annoy (especially when it is beginning to seem like politics is taking over the one project in the world that had the potential to empower people to stand up to politics).
this guy is stealing my ls and is going to break up my evil plan to use politics to free us all? .... the volunteers are going to be steaming
Now I'm confused... is Russell ruining it for the rest of us... or is gu3st ruining it for Russel? :dontknow:
Quote from: gu3st on January 16, 2009, 07:58 PM NHFT
Even if all of this was just a joke I consider it to be a very bad one.
Oh, I don't know. It's kind of a good joke.
Quote from: dalebert on January 16, 2009, 10:31 PM NHFT
Quote from: gu3st on January 16, 2009, 07:58 PM NHFT
Even if all of this was just a joke I consider it to be a very bad one.
Oh, I don't know. It's kind of a good joke.
very good joke
so is thinking that politics can solve anything
so are the republican and democrate parties
Quote from: Friday on January 16, 2009, 10:18 PM NHFT
Now I'm confused... is Russell ruining it for the rest of us... or is gu3st ruining it for Russel? :dontknow:
both
mutually assured destruction
Hmm... very subtle....
I'm so confused but I'll give this a shot and then can somebody tell me if I'm right, please?
I take this thread like this:
This is for people that want to secede but from where, NH or the US? Then all the people will do this and form some kind of organization, but for what purpose? Will everyone live in one county of NH? I don't understand a lot of the liberation, (the only word that comes to my mind), talk on this thread, but do I have the main idea correct? If so what about my questions, what would the answers be?
P.S. If I have this all wrong can someone explain it to me really simple please? :)
I think you can sum it up: Russell messing with people's heads.
and making others happy
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 04, 2009, 03:11 PM NHFT
I like Lloyd's spending freeze or 10% reduction per year pledge - you pledge to not sign or vote for anything that proposes or authorizes spending any more money than last year.
This was voted in the affirmative by the people of Grafton last year. It is not "legally binding" though for some reason or another. Although any bureaucrat who doesn't represent his constituents is a rarity it uh can happen y'know! ;D
so a typical thing a Free State Party member would do is seek to make it legally binding. :)
The FSP website now has 2 planks, and one of them is:
QuoteWe support any effort to reduce the size and scope of government, even to the point of totally abolishing the idea.
(my bold)I think that "any effort" to reduce the size of government would include violent rebellion, and I don't think that should be a plank. Maybe change it to:
QuoteWe support any voluntary effort to reduce the size and scope of government, even to the point of totally abolishing the idea.
or
QuoteWe support any non-aggressive effort to reduce the size and scope of government, even to the point of totally abolishing the idea.
My landlord is a poly-sci professor that created his own political party:
The P.A.R.T.I.E. Party!
Peoples Alliance to Reform, Transform and Improve Everything
There's some cool back story if anyone's interested.
hmmm
that's a neat name
Quote from: Mike Barskey on January 17, 2009, 10:36 PM NHFT
The FSP website now has 2 planks, and one of them is:
QuoteWe support any effort to reduce the size and scope of government, even to the point of totally abolishing the idea.
(my bold)
I think that "any effort" to reduce the size of government would include violent rebellion, and I don't think that should be a plank. Maybe change it to:
QuoteWe support any voluntary effort to reduce the size and scope of government, even to the point of totally abolishing the idea.
or
QuoteWe support any non-aggressive effort to reduce the size and scope of government, even to the point of totally abolishing the idea.
There's a really, really,
good Plank in the pile of lumber outside the farmhouse.
Quote from: ancapagency on January 05, 2009, 07:56 AM NHFT
Perhaps:
The Shire Party
The Freedom Party
The Voluntary Party
The Granite State Party (Seth Cohn was considering this at one point)
The Radical Party
The Unparty
Quote from: bigmike on January 18, 2009, 03:15 AM NHFT
My landlord is a poly-sci professor that created his own political party:
The P.A.R.T.I.E. Party!
Peoples Alliance to Reform, Transform and Improve Everything
I was going to say Peaceful Anarchist Revolution Through Individualist Economics, but I like that one too.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 17, 2009, 06:08 AM NHFT
I think you can sum it up: Russell messing with people's heads.
Oh, okay, thanks! :D
So when is the party?
if you want to make it happen, then you choose the time
One of the volunteers has made the first Free State Party T-shirt (actually a "Vote No" shirt, but with "TheFreeStateParty.com" at the bottom). It's not "Don't Vote," but "Vote No" is a pretty good philosophy: if everything the government tries to do is voted down, the government does nothing. :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 18, 2009, 10:18 PM NHFT
if you want to make it happen, then you choose the time
I will party tomorrow night. Perhaps some people will join me. :)
Quote from: Mike Barskey on January 18, 2009, 11:21 PM NHFT
One of the volunteers has made the first Free State Party T-shirt (actually a "Vote No" shirt, but with "TheFreeStateParty.com" at the bottom). It's not "Don't Vote," but "Vote No" is a pretty good philosophy: if everything the government tries to do is voted down, the government does nothing. :)
Voting IN a broken system is voting FOR a broken system. There is no such thing as a "no" vote. They are all "yes" votes.
Ok I guess we can mark Dale down in the category of No, no means Yes, yes!
I guess Dale will not be joining us. I understand. I didn't help start the party for people such as yourself. :)
I don't know about that. First: I agree with him. Voting no still implies that your vote should have control over others (what about the people who want the vote to be yes?). I think true freedom and voluntaryism means not voting to control others, either with a "yes" or a "no" vote. Second: He didn't say he wasn't interested in joining the Free State Party, he just described his view of a "no" vote. Assuming he is interested, are there other ways he can participate?
other ways?
he COULD still campaign and at the very least help someone who was a voluntaryist who ran for some job in order to push for elimination of the government.
Right. Are there other things a volunteer can do besides vote "no?"
I wasn't telling dale to vote. I wasn't thinking he should join our party.
Others will want to join, who want to practice radical politics.
Dale's t-shirts are different
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 20, 2009, 07:45 PM NHFT
I wasn't telling dale to vote. I wasn't thinking he should join our party.
Others will want to join, who want to practice radical politics.
Dale's t-shirts are different
I misunderstood. But I may have misunderstood Dale, too, so I'll let you two hash it out. :)
Irony: The ad at the bottom of this thread at the moment is for www.vote-nobody.com
I think that is a slogan the free state party can endorse.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 20, 2009, 07:49 PM NHFT
I think that is a slogan the free state party can endorse.
Isn't "Vote Nobody But Us" better?
Unless the last name of the person is "Nobody"
Quote from: AntonLee on January 20, 2009, 08:15 PM NHFT
Unless the last name of the person is "Nobody"
OMG, that's diabolical!! Maybe we can find someone willing to legally change either their first or last name to Nobody. Then we can really try to get Nobody on the ballot! >:D
No, I won't campaign either. I've been kind of playing along because it just strikes me as a kind of joke about politics. As soon as it starts to really sound serious, I doubt I'll humor the notion any longer.
Quote from: Friday on January 20, 2009, 08:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 20, 2009, 07:49 PM NHFT
I think that is a slogan the free state party can endorse.
Isn't "Vote Nobody But Us" better?
that's party thinking :)
Quote from: dalebert on January 20, 2009, 10:34 PM NHFT
No, I won't campaign either. I've been kind of playing along because it just strikes me as a kind of joke about politics. As soon as it starts to really sound serious, I doubt I'll humor the notion any longer.
absolutely
I think your website is all fixed now.
Quote from: mackler on January 18, 2009, 03:32 PM NHFT
Quote from: ancapagency on January 05, 2009, 07:56 AM NHFT
Perhaps:
The Shire Party
The Freedom Party
The Voluntary Party
The Granite State Party (Seth Cohn was considering this at one point)
The Radical Party
The Unparty
The Greens started out in Germany as the "anti-party, party"
that's nice to know
did you know the Free State Party started out as an idea for a free state party?
.
The Free State needs more partying.