New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => Civil Disobedience => Topic started by: Daniel Bryant on August 03, 2009, 08:10 PM NHFT

Title: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Daniel Bryant on August 03, 2009, 08:10 PM NHFT
Also better known as the census, and, oh happy day, I've been "selected" to "participate!"  Now, my first instinct is to toss this into the circular filing cabinet with the rest of the junk mail, but my lovely wife pointed out to me that it really would be best to understand what the repercussions of such an act might be.

So, I know it only comes around every ten years but can anyone tell me what I can reasonably expect to happen to me if I just don't fill this thing out?  Do they just ignore it, fine me, send people to harass me?  I would be particularly interested to hear of people who have refused in the past, how they went about it, and what happened to them.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Ogre on August 03, 2009, 08:26 PM NHFT
This (http://blogofbile.com/activism/census/) is a nice story about the census.

My inclination is to write the number of people in your house on it, filling the entire page with the number, then return it.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Checkpoint on August 04, 2009, 02:01 AM NHFT
I have a webpage up regarding the American Community Survey that was prompted by my own encounter with a Census Bureau flunky a few years ago:

https://www.checkpointusa.org/Census/Census.htm (https://www.checkpointusa.org/Census/Census.htm)

Basically, if you refuse to participate, they huff and puff for about 3 months then they go away to find easier prey.

If you're looking for all the gory details regarding what to expect if you don't comply, this link is full of personal accounts:

http://www.survivalarts.com/archives/001095.html (http://www.survivalarts.com/archives/001095.html)
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Pat McCotter on August 04, 2009, 02:25 AM NHFT
The American Community Survey is not "The Census." Like you say "The Census" comes around every ten years. The ACS is sent to 250,000 homes every month. It is then compiled into reports every year.

"The CENSUS" is now just a short form questionnaire and will be mailed out April 1, 2010.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Daniel Bryant on August 04, 2009, 02:48 AM NHFT
Hmmm... that is interesting.  So it's a survey from the Census Bureau but it's not "The Census."  That sounds specifically geared to getting around the constitution.  I can't say that I'm surprised.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: KBCraig on August 04, 2009, 03:04 AM NHFT
Quote from: Checkpoint on August 04, 2009, 02:01 AM NHFT
Basically, if you refuse to participate, they huff and puff for about 3 months then they go away to find easier prey.

The Census Bureau is desperately trying to hire enough people to do their basic job. They have no budget for, nor hope of, actually enforcing their "rules" disguised as laws. That's why it's currently easy to call their bluff.

With a different political sentiment, especially if they should win funding for special prosecutors, they'll come down like a ton of PatKs. (That's about 5 PatKs, the last time I checked.)
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: KBCraig on August 04, 2009, 03:05 AM NHFT
Oh, and thanks for the links, Checkpoint. I'm glad to see you posting here. I love your videos and your activism.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Mike Barskey on August 04, 2009, 07:24 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on August 04, 2009, 03:05 AM NHFT
I'm glad to see you posting here. I love your videos and your activism.

Ditto that!
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: bile on August 04, 2009, 08:30 AM NHFT
I've got my experiences with the ACS thoroughly documented here. (http://blogofbile.com/activism/american-community-survey/)

I followed it to it's absolute conclusion including calling them up at the end to question why they stopped perusing me.

They will harass but not prosecute.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 04, 2009, 09:24 AM NHFT
Quote from: bile on August 04, 2009, 08:30 AM NHFT
They will harass but not prosecute.

You're gonna guarantee that, eh?
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: bile on August 04, 2009, 11:04 AM NHFT
As much as I guarantee the NYPD won't ticket you for jaywalking. I've yet to come across a confirmed story in which they have. I've found talkings of a couple anti-war protesters in the early 70's maybe being brought up on charges in addition to other charges and that's it. There are several quotes from politicians claiming the requirements are for show. The bureaucrats I spoke with also said that the data is only worth anything to them within 2 months of asking for it. After that they no longer pursue.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Daniel Bryant on August 06, 2009, 07:19 PM NHFT
Thanks, everyone.  It sounds like I'll be relatively safe just chucking this in the trash and not answering my door for people that I don't know.  Having said that, the question remains, what will my wife think of all that.  After all, even if the threats are just for show, they are pretty scary.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 06, 2009, 08:10 PM NHFT
Well, can they prove you received it in the mail and then willing refused to return it?

Kind of hard to prove that you did... passive resistance is a pretty safe route.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Pat K on August 07, 2009, 12:47 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on August 04, 2009, 03:04 AM NHFT
Quote from: Checkpoint on August 04, 2009, 02:01 AM NHFT
Basically, if you refuse to participate, they huff and puff for about 3 months then they go away to find easier prey.

The Census Bureau is desperately trying to hire enough people to do their basic job. They have no budget for, nor hope of, actually enforcing their "rules" disguised as laws. That's why it's currently easy to call their bluff.

With a different political sentiment, especially if they should win funding for special prosecutors, they'll come down like a ton of PatKs. (That's about 5 PatKs, the last time I checked.)



Yes about 5 PatKs, though I can generate about a ton of force all by myself at speed. ;D
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 07, 2009, 06:45 AM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on August 06, 2009, 08:10 PM NHFT
Well, can they prove you received it in the mail and then willing refused to return it?

Kind of hard to prove that you did... passive resistance is a pretty safe route.

Just point to this thread?
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 07, 2009, 07:33 AM NHFT
Oh fine Kat...
There you go ruining it again...
And don't give me that icy stare either!
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on August 07, 2009, 07:48 AM NHFT
Cowering ensues if he knows whats good for him
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: doobie on August 07, 2009, 01:14 PM NHFT
Do they keep mailing you copies if you don't respond?  Hold onto them for a year then mail them back without answering them, but saying, "whoops I just found this, do you still want it answered?"  Mailing each copy back a year after you received it.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Daniel Bryant on August 07, 2009, 05:07 PM NHFT
Thanks to everyone for their responses.  Right now I'm planning to just not send them anything in response and not answer the door.  I suppose that if cornered I could always just tell them that I saw "survey" and automatically threw it out.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Pat McCotter on August 08, 2009, 12:27 AM NHFT
That was my answer to the guy who came to my door. "We don't do surveys." Then I closed the door. Never heard from them again.

http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=58.msg103204#msg103204
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 08, 2009, 04:22 AM NHFT
I need an 'icy stare' emoticon so I can transmit my terror online, as well as in person.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Pat K on August 08, 2009, 05:17 AM NHFT
Icy stare apply it directly to their face.
Icy stare apply it directly to their face.

(http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/17/128687526993627269.jpg)
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 08, 2009, 06:44 AM NHFT
Thanks PatK!
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Checkpoint on August 10, 2009, 11:23 PM NHFT
Thanks KBCraig and Mike. I like what's going on in New Hampshire as well and try to stay abreast of the activism taking place in New England.

There's a good chance I'll be in New England sometime in early October for a few days. I'm hoping I'll have an opportunity to meet up with some of you while I'm out.
Title: Re: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: freedom_spryte on August 16, 2009, 06:03 AM NHFT
This youtube video is only audio, it's from a Coast to Coast show where Katherine Albrecht is the guest. Regardless of how you might feel about Coast to Coast, or George Noory, Katherine Albrecht is an awesome privacy advocate. She talks about the American Community Survey, the kind of information they ask for, where they get it from if you refuse and what they use the information for. Very interesting and not a little bit creepy.

This is part one, follow the video on youtube to get the other portions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0JROOGiE2BI
Title: Update: "The American Community Survey"
Post by: Daniel Bryant on October 20, 2009, 05:57 PM NHFT
Well, we decided not to do anything about it.  We sat on the survey and just never responded.  We got it in late July and it's almost the end of October now.  So far the only thing that has happened is that the Census Bureau sent us another copy, just in case we didn't get the first.

I'll post anything else that happens.

On a related note, I noticed this story on the front page of a USA Today paper that someone was reading at work:  http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2009-10-19-census_N.htm
(http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/census/2009-10-19-census_N.htm)

It is of particular interest because one if the reasons that they cite for people not wanting to return the census papers is "mounting mistrust of government."  Hmmm...  Whoda thunkit.