Okay, with all of these economic issues and who knows what's going to happen, would it be wise to take out a 72 month loan for a used car? Then again if the economy does collapse we have a mortgage too so the auto loan is minor compared to being homeless, right?
My minivan has some problems, I'm not sure if they are huge, but Rick thinks they are going to be. There's small stuff like, a cracked side mirror, messed up bumper, and other electrical issues which don't bother me at all except for my exhaust not working on the windows when I'm driving. That one bothers me because I can't see and it's hard to wipe the windshield with napkins and drive at the same time, especially in a minivan.
A couple of years ago the air conditiner stopped working, just the heat worked, so Rick rigged it with pliers so now he can turn the air conditioner on in the summer and the heat in the winter so I don't know if that has anything to do with the windshield exhaust or whatever it's called not working.
Now, the minivan is pulling back while I'm driving, even on a flat road so I don't know what that possible problem could be, it's like when you hit a speed strip, not bump, in the road. It's really lost it's pick up and go when I'm traveling up hills so I don't know if that's a big deal or not. The asthetics don't bother me at all, I just want a solid mechanical, dependable automobile.
The van is paid off but we can't afford big repairs, if it needs them to pass inspection because it's not like they let you make payment plans on repairs.
The car we're looking at is a 2007 Toyota Camry, with 33,600 miles. The loan would be $200 a month, which we could just swing and the total cost of the Camry after the trade-in would be about $12,000. They would only give me a trade-in of $3350 for the minivan and that was after debating with them for a couple of hours, we got them to go about $600 lower on the Camry. Is all of that good?
Are you saying that you have no cash? People with no cash should not add payments of any sort. I financed a used car a couple of times. Never more than 24 months. Heck, I won't finance a new car for more than 48. We are pretty much cash for everything now. If a vehicle dies, we buy whatever we have the cash for. The uncertainty of the future is what makes another payment unwise.
Just my opinion.
Cathleen
QuoteOkay, with all of these economic issues and who knows what's going to happen, would it be wise to take out a 72 month loan for a used car?
No. I speak from personal experience and as someone who's read a lot of financial advice books. 72 months is a 6 year loan. The amount you'll be paying for using someone else's money is insane on that.
Also, count on the lien-holder MANDATING comprehensive insurance coverage on it which, depending on the drivers, can run close to the monthly payment.
I'm finally going to take my own advice after I pay off my Element. I will never again finance a car. The simple fact of the matter is, when you're buying the car, the money is secondary to the benefits, but within a few months you learn the quirks of the new car just like you know the quirks of your current one, and you're paying on it. That's a burden that I've always been saddled with even on my dream car.
Finally, 33K isn't exactly a spring chicken of a car. Sure, it probably beats the hell out of what you're driving right now, but it's supposed to have had between 7 and 11 oil changes so far, plus air filter changes. The coolant is supposed to have been flushed. At this point, the transmission and differential fluids may be breaking down, so they need to be inspected and/or replaced. Fuel lines may also be in need of maintainance. Some of these things can be ignored or may not be an issue if they're ignored, but if there's a problem and it's not been done, could signifigantly shorten the life of the car. The point I'm trying to make here is that improper maintainance can kill a car MUCH faster than milage, and 33K is a margin big enough to be worried about.
There's no certainty that your "new" car won't have a major failure in 3 months and it'll likely NOT be covered under warranty.
QuoteThere's small stuff like, a cracked side mirror
$25 to $50 bucks and an hour's worth of work.
QuoteA couple of years ago the air conditiner stopped working, just the heat worked, so Rick rigged it with pliers so now he can turn the air conditioner on in the summer and the heat in the winter so I don't know if that has anything to do with the windshield exhaust or whatever it's called not working.
They're related. I can't understand how it could be "rigged with pliers" to work unless the knobs physically broke. If the blower can work, it sounds like the control panel isn't working, either electrically or mechanically. This should still be a relatively easy fix compared to the cost of a new vehicle.
QuoteNow, the minivan is pulling back while I'm driving, even on a flat road so I don't know what that possible problem could be, it's like when you hit a speed strip, not bump, in the road
The first thing I think of that would cause the shuddering AND the "pulling back", especially if it seems to pull to the side, is brake lock up, especially a parking brake. I just had the parking brake lock up on my motorhome, and it's unnerving seeing the wheel turning forward while moving backward at the same time.
QuoteThe van is paid off but we can't afford big repairs, if it needs them to pass inspection because it's not like they let you make payment plans on repairs.
I've got a few thigns here, take them for what they're worth to ya, I'm only tossing out options, not exactly making suggestions. You're concerned about inspection, not safety or failure. If you don't have the money to pass the inspection, don't have it inspected. I'm aware this is illegal and they'll hurt you, but you've also got a group of people who will stand up here. Keeniacs having topless protests is all well and good, open carry litter pick ups are great, pot protests rock. However, I've met more people who have to decide between paying the rent and paying taxes, or paying for a government sticker versus visiting a dentist than I've met who wanna open carry while high and topless. ESPECIALLY with the economy the way it is, you might be able to get some very good publicity and sympathy IF the state wants to try to kidnap you for not getting their sticker when they want you to.
As to not being able to afford repairs, keep in mind that this is true with the Camry too. You don't know what's going to happen, and as I've said, 33K isn't exactly a ticket to problem-free days. Also, given the list of issues you list with the minivan, it seems that you guys have either put off problems because they're not "too important" or you're simply not able to afford to fix them when they occur. If this isn't likely to change, then a 6 year loan is likely to last longer than the car, honestly. Proper maintainance is the single most important thing to preserving the longevity of a vehicle and even unimportant things matter.
As to the "not being able to make payments, assuming that is a defeatist attitude. There are likely places that will do it, especially if you offer something to intice them (perhaps interest, perhaps barter).
If you find out exactly what's wrong, you might also be able to hire a mechanically adept friend at signifigantly lower cost. A gearhead/hobbiest doesn't usually have overhead to contend with, so if you supply parts and beer, you might have a much easier to cope with repair bill.
Not being a new car buyer, I still taught this to my sons.
Get a used car for what you can afford in cash. Put the car payments you would have made into the bank. After four years, more or less, you will have enough for a new car. Do not buy the new car. Buy the previous year clearance car that buyers have had no problems with, pay cash and don't pay the asking price.
Quote from: cathleeninnh on August 24, 2009, 12:29 PM NHFT
Are you saying that you have no cash? People with no cash should not add payments of any sort. I financed a used car a couple of times. Never more than 24 months. Heck, I won't finance a new car for more than 48. We are pretty much cash for everything now. If a vehicle dies, we buy whatever we have the cash for. The uncertainty of the future is what makes another payment unwise.
Just my opinion.
Cathleen
Yup, pretty much we don't have a lot of cash on hand. Thank you for your opinion, that's what I was asking for and it's wise as usual! :D
Quote from: Kevin Dean on August 24, 2009, 01:52 PM NHFT
QuoteOkay, with all of these economic issues and who knows what's going to happen, would it be wise to take out a 72 month loan for a used car?
No. I speak from personal experience and as someone who's read a lot of financial advice books. 72 months is a 6 year loan. The amount you'll be paying for using someone else's money is insane on that.
Also, count on the lien-holder MANDATING comprehensive insurance coverage on it which, depending on the drivers, can run close to the monthly payment.
I'm finally going to take my own advice after I pay off my Element. I will never again finance a car. The simple fact of the matter is, when you're buying the car, the money is secondary to the benefits, but within a few months you learn the quirks of the new car just like you know the quirks of your current one, and you're paying on it. That's a burden that I've always been saddled with even on my dream car.
Finally, 33K isn't exactly a spring chicken of a car. Sure, it probably beats the hell out of what you're driving right now, but it's supposed to have had between 7 and 11 oil changes so far, plus air filter changes. The coolant is supposed to have been flushed. At this point, the transmission and differential fluids may be breaking down, so they need to be inspected and/or replaced. Fuel lines may also be in need of maintainance. Some of these things can be ignored or may not be an issue if they're ignored, but if there's a problem and it's not been done, could signifigantly shorten the life of the car. The point I'm trying to make here is that improper maintainance can kill a car MUCH faster than milage, and 33K is a margin big enough to be worried about.
There's no certainty that your "new" car won't have a major failure in 3 months and it'll likely NOT be covered under warranty.
QuoteThere's small stuff like, a cracked side mirror
$25 to $50 bucks and an hour's worth of work.
QuoteA couple of years ago the air conditiner stopped working, just the heat worked, so Rick rigged it with pliers so now he can turn the air conditioner on in the summer and the heat in the winter so I don't know if that has anything to do with the windshield exhaust or whatever it's called not working.
They're related. I can't understand how it could be "rigged with pliers" to work unless the knobs physically broke. If the blower can work, it sounds like the control panel isn't working, either electrically or mechanically. This should still be a relatively easy fix compared to the cost of a new vehicle.
QuoteNow, the minivan is pulling back while I'm driving, even on a flat road so I don't know what that possible problem could be, it's like when you hit a speed strip, not bump, in the road
The first thing I think of that would cause the shuddering AND the "pulling back", especially if it seems to pull to the side, is brake lock up, especially a parking brake. I just had the parking brake lock up on my motorhome, and it's unnerving seeing the wheel turning forward while moving backward at the same time.
QuoteThe van is paid off but we can't afford big repairs, if it needs them to pass inspection because it's not like they let you make payment plans on repairs.
I've got a few thigns here, take them for what they're worth to ya, I'm only tossing out options, not exactly making suggestions. You're concerned about inspection, not safety or failure. If you don't have the money to pass the inspection, don't have it inspected. I'm aware this is illegal and they'll hurt you, but you've also got a group of people who will stand up here. Keeniacs having topless protests is all well and good, open carry litter pick ups are great, pot protests rock. However, I've met more people who have to decide between paying the rent and paying taxes, or paying for a government sticker versus visiting a dentist than I've met who wanna open carry while high and topless. ESPECIALLY with the economy the way it is, you might be able to get some very good publicity and sympathy IF the state wants to try to kidnap you for not getting their sticker when they want you to.
As to not being able to afford repairs, keep in mind that this is true with the Camry too. You don't know what's going to happen, and as I've said, 33K isn't exactly a ticket to problem-free days. Also, given the list of issues you list with the minivan, it seems that you guys have either put off problems because they're not "too important" or you're simply not able to afford to fix them when they occur. If this isn't likely to change, then a 6 year loan is likely to last longer than the car, honestly. Proper maintainance is the single most important thing to preserving the longevity of a vehicle and even unimportant things matter.
As to the "not being able to make payments, assuming that is a defeatist attitude. There are likely places that will do it, especially if you offer something to intice them (perhaps interest, perhaps barter).
If you find out exactly what's wrong, you might also be able to hire a mechanically adept friend at signifigantly lower cost. A gearhead/hobbiest doesn't usually have overhead to contend with, so if you supply parts and beer, you might have a much easier to cope with repair bill.
Thanks Kevin! :) As far as the minivan goes, we get the oil changed regularly and stuff like that and the knobs aren't broken but Rick knows what's wrong and that it would cost too much right now to get fixed. We got a Carfax report, the previous owner did go in for all scheduled maintenances, so that's good but like you, Cathleen and Pat are saying, it is another payment. I've got to think and show Rick all of these replies because they are excellent things to consider.
How is your motor home now?
Thanks again! :)
Quote from: Pat McCotter on August 24, 2009, 02:46 PM NHFT
Not being a new car buyer, I still taught this to my sons.
Get a used car for what you can afford in cash. Put the car payments you would have made into the bank. After four years, more or less, you will have enough for a new car. Do not buy the new car. Buy the previous year clearance car that buyers have had no problems with, pay cash and don't pay the asking price.
Thanks Pat, excellent advice! :) I'm going to have Rick read all of these and talk to him too.
QuoteHow is your motor home now?
In the shop. In the peak of RV season. If you think that waits at regular mechanics are long, or prices absurd, your head would explode dealing with RV people.
I suppose I'm so annoyed because it's the "final" thing standing in my way. Once we're back in the motorhome, we hit a campground and I give my job notice, then it's back home (New Hampshire!) and now it's just "Wait, wait, wait".
Quote from: Kevin Dean on August 24, 2009, 05:40 PM NHFT
QuoteHow is your motor home now?
In the shop. In the peak of RV season. If you think that waits at regular mechanics are long, or prices absurd, your head would explode dealing with RV people.
I suppose I'm so annoyed because it's the "final" thing standing in my way. Once we're back in the motorhome, we hit a campground and I give my job notice, then it's back home (New Hampshire!) and now it's just "Wait, wait, wait".
That's got to be irritating to say the least, I hope they get it done quickly as I'm sure you do too!
Alright, your coming to New Hampshire, cool! ;D
Lindsay and I pretty much decided today that getting the brakes fixed might not be the best decision long term. We'll see if we can get the motorhome back on Wednesday and then give notice and move.
Having the money might be a much needed padding.
Quote from: Kevin Dean on August 25, 2009, 12:07 AM NHFT
Lindsay and I pretty much decided today that getting the brakes fixed might not be the best decision long term.
Point it north, and don't stop! ;D
QuotePoint it north, and don't stop!
That's the plan. We're going to reclaim it tomorrow, park it and give notice at work. Then, vacation's over and we come home.
~Get a nice 1968 VW bus~
Quote from: littlehawk on August 25, 2009, 07:46 PM NHFT
~Get a nice 1968 VW bus~
No way, I'm going for my '77 or '76 Chevy Nova! :D
Update on car situation:
We nicely refused the Toyota Camry and the 72 mth. loan and I'm keeping my minivan! :bdance2:
Thank you everyone for your excellent advice!
I personally think that anybody is nuts to spend more than a few thousand dollars for a car unless they have some business need to "appear" successful, like if they are a salesman or have to transport customers or prospective customers.
I haven't bought a new vehicle since 1975, when I paid $3,700 for a new, bare-bones Chevy 10 van. I can afford new cars. I just don't buy them.
I usually find that I can get the best value for my money when I shop for vehicles in the $3,000 to $4,000 range. I typically get 60,000 to 80,000 out of such vehicles (I average about 30,000 miles of driving a year), and only once have I had even one of these vehicles require expensive repairs.
The place to find a lot of cars to look at is now craigslist. I learned that by accident. When I needed a replacement van about six months ago, I found that the pickings for vehicles within my search parameter had become thin for two reasons: 1) In my locale, the police were ticketing unregistered vehicles that were parked along the roadside, so there were a lot fewer of those to look at, and 2) the classified ads for used cars in my local newspapers had dried up. But one morning, when I was coming out of my house to get into my rental van (I was paying $280 a week for it), some guy was parked behind my dead Ford Windstar and asked if it was for sale. I told him it needed a repair that would cost more than the vehicle was worth, and he looked really disappointed and said that he was only in this neighborhood because craigslist had an affordable used car listed on this street, but by the time he got here, it had been sold.
All I knew of craigslist at that time was that it was in the news because someone had used it to somehow aid in the commission of a crime, but I don't follow the "Nancy Grace" type stories, so I honestly don't even know how craigslist got abused.
I selected the automotive catagory and was able to narrow my seach by model and make, price and distance. I searched for Dodge Caravan, under $4,000 and within something like 30 miles and there were about 60 of them listed.
I didn't buy a Dodge Caravan. After looking at a couple I didn't like, I did some research on minivans (I knew little of them, because I had always bought full-sized) and saw that the Chevy Astro looked more like a regular van, so just on a lark, when I had scheduled two viewings of Caravans that were three hours apart, I called someone listing an Astrovan for $1,000 only because his listing included his phone number and it was just a few blocks away from where I was at the time. I would never seek out a $1,000 vehicle because if a vehicle is only worth $1,000, then there is no way that it will be dependable enough to meet my needs, but I figured if I liked what I saw, then I would do a search for Astro Vans in the $3,000 to $5,000 price range and find a suitable one.
Incredibly my search ended with this $1,000, 1994 Astro Van. The seller was the original buyer, who had paid $23,000 for it way back, and a few months earlier, he had made a decision to spruce it up, buying new tires, putting in a complete new exhaust, having a full brake job, replacing the radiator, water pump, hoses and belts, the fuel pump and filter, the alternator, putting in a top of the line battery, and replacing the ignition wiring and parts. He even had the dated reciepts to document all of this. Then, the front air conditioner compressor went (it has separate front and rear air conditioners) and he decided that he was through throwing good money after bad and bought a new minivan for $25,000 instead. Basically, I have benefitted greatly from his multiple, poor decisions.
I now have a minivan that, when I am driving it, I couldn't tell from a new vehicle except by the vintage of the dash buttons. I've got power windows, power mirrors, power door locks, cruise control, six-way power seat, etc, etc. and it runs like a top I will be surprised if I don't get 100,000 miles out of it.
The only warning is, buying a vehicle in a private sale is very much caveat emptor. I am enough of an amateur mechanic to be able to field judge a used vehicle, but even then, I can't test for a cracked or warped head, nor could I spot an intermittent ingition computer malfunction.. If I had bought one of the three Caravans I had looked at before I settled on this vehicle, I would not be writing this glowing endorsement of low-end, private vehicle purchases because two of the three were junk, which I could spot but other might not have realized, and the third one had a lender lein on it that the seller did not reveal and then denied. A fourth prospective purchase was funny. The seller would only sell it to me if I would meet him in a desolate parking lot in the evening and pay cash on the spot. Riiiiight.
And once you've pocketed the $15,000 in payments you would have made over the next six years, you then just buy another $3,000 vehicle and find a better use for the rest of the money.
Quote from: littlehawk on August 25, 2009, 07:46 PM NHFT
~Get a nice 1968 VW bus~
If you don't care about heat or headlights that light anything ;D
I buy and sell everything on Craigslist now-a-days. I don't even use eBay anymore, except for one specific thing that just works better that way due to the nature of the item and low shipping costs. (Specifically, Magic: The Gathering cards)
the rule of thumb for financing a car is if you can't pay for it in 3 years you can't afford it.
Whomever is trying to bury you in a 6 year loan is not someone you want to be doing business with, ever hear of the " rule of 72"?
start forcing yourself to put away a little money each month to buy a decent used car from a private party and pay cash.
I was thinking that if one needed an extra vehicle for just going a few miles to do errands while the main car was away all day you could consider buying an old gas hog.
A few miles a few times a week won't mean much if the gas hogs are selling for as little as I assume they are.
The owners of these older sedans are coming off the road every day and I'm guessing their kids don't want them. They have probably received good care.
Well, so much for keeping the van. :(
We made the decision to keep the minivan and we were all so happy until, no lie, 4 days after making our decision the van started rolling backwards while in drive. We took it to our mechanic and he said it was the transmission, gave us a ballpark price for repair, told us the van is not going to nickel and dime us, it's going to dollar us. His words, exactly.
We don't have money saved for another car, (to buy outright), because we are on a "shoestring" budget, so we got another car with a loan. We saw no other option. I couldn't and won't risk anyone's lives that are behind us when the van starts to roll and my kids that are in the back seat.
I know it's not good taking a car loan out but our hands were tied. The mechanic said that the 2003 Windstars are notorious for the kind of problems I've been having with it. I looked it up on the internet and it looks to be true.
We intend to put any/if Rick gets one this year, Xmas bonus towards extra payments on the principal to shorten the loan life. Without going into my entire budget it was all we could do at the time. That's why we're trying to sell our house to get rid of the big mortgage, pay off old credit cards, and hospital bills.
A few weeks ago I even cancelled cable to save $60 a month but now it looks like we're not going to be saving that $60 anymore.
I would love to find an LNA job on nights and weekends but we're pretty far from where places are hiring and I can't see driving over an hour for what I'd be making because I have no experience. Then again, I have to figure that choice out better to see if I'm right or not. In fact, I'm going to call my LNA instructor, (her and I became good friends), to see if she has any job leads.
I'm in a good mood, trying not to get freaked out and depressed like I was a few days ago and I'm trying to look on the positive side in case the law of attraction thingy really does work. :-\ :)