So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community? Mormon, Islamic, Messianic, or otherwise (possibly Atheist, Pagan, or ?)
Here's a site to ponder: http://www.4thefamily.us/ (http://www.4thefamily.us/)
You know...committed relationships that last longer than a few months or years before getting bored and moving on to the next "moment" or "experience". (this is only pointed at "so-called" polyamorists...not the ones who have actually built "families" together)
Thoughts? Judgements? Burnings at the stake? :icon_pirat:
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:06 PM NHFT
So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community?
Boring. Try this. How would the community feel if all of a sudden Porcupine polyamorists started up a line or clan marriage?
Quote from: Sovereign Curtis on December 18, 2009, 07:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:06 PM NHFT
So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community?
Boring. Try this. How would the community feel if all of a sudden Porcupine polyamorists started up a line or clan marriage?
*yawn*
That's so winter after the summer of love...
HBO has this great series that just keeps getting better: Big Love
Bill Paxton, Jeanne Tripplehorn , Chloe Sevigny , Ginnifer Goodwin
Not boring ;)
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: Sovereign Curtis on December 18, 2009, 07:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:06 PM NHFT
So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community?
Boring. Try this. How would the community feel if all of a sudden Porcupine polyamorists started up a line or clan marriage?
*yawn*
Ha! I guess the two of us are cool, then!
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:14 PM NHFT
That's so winter after the summer of love...
HBO has this great series that just keeps getting better: Big Love
Bill Paxton, Jeanne Tripplehorn , Chloe Sevigny , Ginnifer Goodwin
Not boring ;)
No, I wouldnt call that boring, nor did I mean to imply such with my first response. What I meant by "boring" is "Doesnt bother me, or strike me as all that remarkable. Live and let live."
Quote from: Sovereign Curtis on December 18, 2009, 07:16 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: Sovereign Curtis on December 18, 2009, 07:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:06 PM NHFT
So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community?
Boring. Try this. How would the community feel if all of a sudden Porcupine polyamorists started up a line or clan marriage?
*yawn*
Ha! I guess the two of us are cool, then!
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:14 PM NHFT
That's so winter after the summer of love...
HBO has this great series that just keeps getting better: Big Love
Bill Paxton, Jeanne Tripplehorn , Chloe Sevigny , Ginnifer Goodwin
Not boring ;)
No, I wouldnt call that boring, nor did I mean to imply such with my first response. What I meant by "boring" is "Doesnt bother me, or strike me as all that remarkable. Live and let live."
Ok...cool. That's one voice. Any others? o.O
Go for it!
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:06 PM NHFT
So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community?
for all i know, they are already here :)
with all the single guys i know that don't have a woman in their lives, i figure there must be some other guys with a handful
self-proclaimed? vs. what?
btw .... lou, is this your way of introducing your 3 wives? ;D
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 18, 2009, 07:46 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:06 PM NHFT
So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community?
for all i know, they are already here :)
with all the single guys i know that don't have a woman in their lives, i figure there must be some other guys with a handful
self-proclaimed? vs. what?
btw .... lou, is this your way of introducing your 3 wives? ;D
You're right. They may already be here for all we know. There is a group based in Maine that touts polygamy. They are a little too forceful with their religious dogma for my tastes.
My great-great-grandfather was born here and was a polygamist before ever becoming a mormon. He ended up moving up to Rumford, ME. He married 3 sisters and a civil war widow before moving to Utah and joining the church.
3 wives...no, not quite. :icon_pirat:
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 18, 2009, 07:46 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 18, 2009, 07:06 PM NHFT
So...there seem to be a few polyamorists and self-proclaimed polyamorists in the FSP and related circles. That has always made me curious as to how Porcs in general would react to a closed polygamist family (one man, more than one wife) joining the FSP/Voluntary Community?
for all i know, they are already here :)
with all the single guys i know that don't have a woman in their lives, i figure there must be some other guys with a handful
Or, more likely, there are some ladies out there with more than one man
I have no problem with it. I used to live in Saudi Arabia; at least one of the families on my street had more than one mommy. :grouphug:
On a tangentially related subject, I have coworkers now, right here in the Free State, in arranged marriages. Seems alien to me, but they really don't seem to have a problem with it. Whatever floats your boat. :dontknow:
I do find it skeevy when groups/sects/cultures marry off their girls in the early teens to much older men (which they also do in Saudi Arabia). I don't think the average tween is mature enough to make that kind of decision, or that, given the choice, she'd choose someone her father's or grandfather's age.
I welcome anyone who's willing to stand with me to be left the hell alone.
QuoteYou know...committed relationships that last longer than a few months or years before getting bored and moving on to the next "moment" or "experience". (this is only pointed at "so-called" polyamorists...not the ones who have actually built "families" together)
Thoughts? Judgements? Burnings at the stake?
I will say this, because you mentioned the "closed" community.
I wanted to join a certain community that used a very broad term (poly) and when I did, I found a less-than-welcoming responce. Apparently, this community used the term "poly" to include "poly families with children as the focus". They're not the same thing, and I think some people need to be reminded of this.
There are mono families that choose to have fun, have no kids, be "free spirits" and how they live their life isn't for me to judge if they're not being aggressive. Likewise, just because I don't share your same set of values doesn't make me any less "poly".
It's a broad term. It's almost like if people said that the FSP is only for libertarians and then defined libertarians as "anarchists". Or said you're not "really" a Porc unless you support no government.
For people who place emphasis on love, relationship building, self-exploration and development and "tossing to the wind" awkward and unintuitive social norms, some seem awefully willing to set up barriers and blockades to exactly those things.
Sadly, I think anyone who believes in Christianity and who supports marriage between a single man and a single woman is less welcome that one who is polyamorous.
Quote from: Ogre on December 19, 2009, 07:20 AM NHFT
Sadly, I think anyone who believes in Christianity and who supports marriage between a single man and a single woman is less welcome that one who is polyamorous.
I wouldnt know you (theoretically speaking) were either, unless you walked up to me and told me flat out "I believe in baby Jesus"/"Would you like to bed my wife?"
Quote from: Ogre on December 19, 2009, 07:20 AM NHFT
Sadly, I think anyone who believes in Christianity and who supports marriage between a single man and a single woman is less welcome that one who is polyamorous.
There are far more one man one wife couples here than post on forums. Quite a few of them have young families. Last year was quite a bumper crop of baby porcupines. To say the least they have less time to post on the forums.
We even have a large pool of Christian porcupines. They are the best kind of Christians. Great people who respect the fact that you may not be a Christian. Your faith is none of their business.
One of the great things about Porcupines they are pretty much cool with what you do as long as it makes you happy and harms no one else.
I am an atheist who supports marriage between a single man and a single woman, but I have poly friends and support their rights, gay friends and support their rights, poly gay friends and support their rights, and interracial couple friends and support their rights (which use to be a big taboo a generation ago).
I don't think people in the liberty movement are sexual aggressors that will use state sponsored or personal violence to force their views on other people . Who cares how another person wants to live their life as long as they are not hurting anyone else?
One of my best friends has 56 brothers and sisters, I always like going with him to his family reunions.
Quote from: thinkliberty on December 19, 2009, 10:41 AM NHFT
One of my best friends has 56 brothers and sisters, I always like going with him to his family reunions.
Holy crap! How?
His dad has a lot of wives.
Quote from: thinkliberty on December 19, 2009, 11:20 AM NHFT
His dad has a lot of wives.
:) Interesting and fascinating.
On an earlier note...has anyone actually watched or kept up with the HBO series Big Love?
http://www.hbo.com/biglove/about/index.html (http://www.hbo.com/biglove/about/index.html)
Quote from: shyfrog on December 19, 2009, 11:39 AM NHFT
On an earlier note...has anyone actually watched or kept up with the HBO series Big Love?
http://www.hbo.com/biglove/about/index.html (http://www.hbo.com/biglove/about/index.html)
Chris and I are big fans of the show. And speaking for myself, I'm comfortable with whatever lifestyle choices our fellow porcupines wish to have... be it monogamy, polyamory, orgy, etc., so long as it's all voluntarily chosen by consenting adults.
Quote from: SethCohn on December 19, 2009, 12:07 PM NHFT
And speaking for myself, I'm comfortable with whatever lifestyle choices our fellow porcupines wish to have... be it monogamy, polyamory, orgy, etc., so long as it's all voluntarily chosen by consenting adults.
I assumed this would be the view of most here. Voluntary contracts between consenting adults are voluntary contracts between consenting adults.
Perhaps I am fishing for something...I don't know.
(http://shyfrog.net/images/mil.jpg)
Quote from: shyfrog on December 19, 2009, 12:49 PM NHFT
I assumed this would be the view of most here. Voluntary contracts between consenting adults are voluntary contracts between consenting adults.
Perhaps I am fishing for something...I don't know.
Speaking as a monogamous heterosexual Christian porcupine, I'd be surprised if you received much judgementalism.
Speaking as someone who has viewed many personal and intellectual clashes in the community, I'd also be surprised if you didn't get any.
BTW, I was in the Salt Lake City airport having lunch yesterday and chose the "Provo Girl" pilsner over the "Polygamy Porter."
Quote from: toowm on December 19, 2009, 12:58 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 19, 2009, 12:49 PM NHFT
I assumed this would be the view of most here. Voluntary contracts between consenting adults are voluntary contracts between consenting adults.
Perhaps I am fishing for something...I don't know.
Speaking as a monogamous heterosexual Christian porcupine, I'd be surprised if you received much judgementalism.
Speaking as someone who has viewed many personal and intellectual clashes in the community, I'd also be surprised if you didn't get any.
BTW, I was in the Salt Lake City airport having lunch yesterday and chose the "Provo Girl" pilsner over the "Polygamy Porter."
Ahhh Wasatch Brewing :) I like Porter
(http://treasuregurus.com/ebay/SN/TN/SN-TNPOLYGAMY.jpg)
That's false advertising, at 3.2% alcohol it's a lite beer.
You'll need more than a 6 pack for each wife, if you want to get laid. :biglaugh:
Quote from: thinkliberty on December 19, 2009, 02:51 PM NHFT
That's false advertising, at 3.2% alcohol it's a lite beer.
You'll need more than a 6 pack for each wife, if you want to get laid. :biglaugh:
I'm pretty sure a light beer is light not because of its alcohol content, but because of the number of carbs and calories.
http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html (http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html)
It's 4.0%
Not sold in regular stores or bars in Utah.
Yes, you can get 4+% beer in Utah at State Liquor Stores. I've seen Arrogant Bastard there as well as Duvel, etc...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_the_United_States (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polygamy_in_the_United_States)
Polygamy is a 3rd degree Felony in the US
Bigamy is a felony in NH
The Model Penal Code recommends that state legislatures write their laws so that polygamy is classified as a felony. Interestingly, the Model Penal Code (section 230.1) defines bigamy as a misdemeanor and polygamy as a felony. Having more than one spouse at the same time gets bumped to a felony if it is done "in purported exercise of a plural marriage..." According to Joel Feinberg in Moral Limits of the Criminal Law: "Righteously, flaunting ones illicit relationships, according to the Code, is apparently a morally aggravating circumstance, more punishable than its clandestine and deceptive counterpart."
Quote from: shyfrog on December 19, 2009, 03:04 PM NHFT
http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html (http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html)
It's 4.0%
Not sold in regular stores or bars in Utah.
Yes, you can get 4+% beer in Utah at State Liquor Stores. I've seen Arrogant Bastard there as well as Duvel, etc...
Wow that must be some good beer, the state of Utah wants a monopoly on it's sales.
Quote from: thinkliberty on December 19, 2009, 04:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: shyfrog on December 19, 2009, 03:04 PM NHFT
http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html (http://www.wasatchbeers.com/polygporter.html)
It's 4.0%
Not sold in regular stores or bars in Utah.
Yes, you can get 4+% beer in Utah at State Liquor Stores. I've seen Arrogant Bastard there as well as Duvel, etc...
Wow that must be some good beer, the state of Utah wants a monopoly on it's sales.
Not to hijack my own thread ... but Utah has some financially ruinous laws against alcohol. Example: The #1 crop in Utah is Alfalfa. No really...Alfalfa. But the soil, water availability, and climate are not made to sustain such a crop.
So... what grows really well in the Utah desert valleys?? Hehe. Wine grapes. They require 1/5th the amount of water. It's much bigger cash crop. But Utah taxes it so heavily (50%+) that it becomes unprofitable.
Ok...I'm done now :icon_pirat:
My wife and I agreed that monogamy was unrealistic for us though neither of us has gone outside the marriage yet . A year or so ago she was talking about asking someone she has know all her life to join our family and I was really surprised to learn how many "poly" family's there are when I started researching the topic are and how beneficial they can be .
Unfortunately most of the case law I find concerns men who have multiple wives but also are involved with forced marriage of very young women and child neglect . My question is if there is only one legally married couple but others join the family is that in fact unlawful ?
If three or more adults create a family structure and causes no harm to anyone within that group and need no monetary assistance from the taxpayers how is it the gooberments concern ? Why do elected officials have such a need to control us ? Lastly .. how do these ideas become law in a nation with a separation of church and state .. these statutes are morality driven .
Great topic !
Not my bedroom, not my business. Nuff said. :)
Quote from: shyfrog on December 19, 2009, 03:44 PM NHFT
Bigamy is a felony in NH
Let's see how removing Adultery as a crime goes this year in the State House, and then perhaps some brave soul will put in a bill...
With the way the FSP is, it'd make more sense for one woman to have 10 or so husbands.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 19, 2009, 08:24 PM NHFT
With the way the FSP is, it'd make more sense for one woman to have 10 or so husbands.
It looks like a good idea.....
Till you realize that you are never going to get 10 porcupines to agree on anything.
I'll stick to just Alec. :love4:
No glue.
Hugs. Lots of hugs. ;D
Ok, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and see what happens. After all, with a group of radicals like this, I can't go wrong, right? :)
Here's my view, and you can let me have it:
Personally, I think any sort of family arrangement other than a man and a woman is wrong. I don't like it, I don't support it, and I don't approve of it. If, in person, I meet people who do such things, I won't hate them, I won't throw things at them, but I won't approve of the arrangement. Would I tell them they're wrong? Perhaps, but not in a judgmental or mean way. Would I try and change them? Perhaps, but again, in a loving manner.
BUT (and don't stop reading yet), I absolutely would NEVER support government trying to stop them, change them, or legislate them. Just like I want the government laws to leave them alone, I want the government laws to leave me alone. I don't think government should support and approve gay marriage, because it indirectly forces me to approve it. At the same time, I don't think government should be in the business of approving ANY marriages.
And I wonder if I am unique because my views are very strong on both parts of this, yet I completely and totally separate my personal opinions from my government opinions. To me, this is quite similar to the old "I despise smoking, but I'll fight for your right to smoke." I see nothing wrong with me, personally, doing what I can to support and change people's lifestyles to lifestyles I believe are good and right -- but would NEVER want government to do so.
But I wonder if I'm in the minority because I see so few people that can support my views in this way -- most simply call me a bigot and homophobe because I won't go out and lobby for gay marriage.
This issue is so interesting on many levels.
People are tested on convictions, some will be ostracized just for the independence from the majority view point. All sizes of groups are subject to being intolerant to individual expression. Polygamy can be another way people can live, however is rejected to the point of violence to preserve the familiar.
It is amazing the myriad forms of bizarre human behavior finds acceptance while other ways are rejected.
The Big Love series is really good.
Quote from: Ogre on December 20, 2009, 07:38 AM NHFT
But I wonder if I'm in the minority because I see so few people that can support my views in this way -- most simply call me a bigot and homophobe because I won't go out and lobby for gay marriage.
All you've done is shown you're not violent about it. You've not done anything to defend the notions that you're not a bigot or a homophobe. Some people call this vulgar libertarianism, I believe. It's kind of the idea that as long as you're libertarian (don't support using government force to get your way) then you must be a good person. But terms like homophobe or bigot are based on your attitudes. If you had a gay child, you could do tremendous emotional abuse to that child by your attitude alone. That's why my view as a libertarian is that we should not treat parents as owning their children. They should be able to leave their parents at any age and I would hope that in a freer society, support networks and adoptive parents would be in great supply.
BTW, I won't lobby for gay marriage either, and I approve of gay marriage. I just don't approve of lobbying the government for anything (playing their games) and I think they should be out of everything.
In short, I'd leave you alone since you're willing to extend the same courtesy, but I certainly wouldn't invite you to my parties. If you don't approve of something that's really an essential part of who I am, then there's not much mutual respect to base a friendship on.
So Lou wants to hoard the beautiful women...
;D
Hey have as many wives (or husbands) as you want and can deal with.
Quote from: CJS on December 19, 2009, 04:51 PM NHFT
My wife and I agreed that monogamy was unrealistic for us though neither of us has gone outside the marriage yet .
unrealistic .... yet reality
interesting
Quote from: Ogre on December 20, 2009, 07:38 AM NHFT
Ok, I'm going to go way out on a limb here and see what happens. After all, with a group of radicals like this, I can't go wrong, right? :)
Here's my view, and you can let me have it:
Personally, I think any sort of family arrangement other than a man and a woman is wrong. I don't like it, I don't support it, and I don't approve of it. If, in person, I meet people who do such things, I won't hate them, I won't throw things at them, but I won't approve of the arrangement. Would I tell them they're wrong? Perhaps, but not in a judgmental or mean way. Would I try and change them? Perhaps, but again, in a loving manner.
BUT (and don't stop reading yet), I absolutely would NEVER support government trying to stop them, change them, or legislate them. Just like I want the government laws to leave them alone, I want the government laws to leave me alone. I don't think government should support and approve gay marriage, because it indirectly forces me to approve it. At the same time, I don't think government should be in the business of approving ANY marriages.
And I wonder if I am unique because my views are very strong on both parts of this, yet I completely and totally separate my personal opinions from my government opinions. To me, this is quite similar to the old "I despise smoking, but I'll fight for your right to smoke." I see nothing wrong with me, personally, doing what I can to support and change people's lifestyles to lifestyles I believe are good and right -- but would NEVER want government to do so.
But I wonder if I'm in the minority because I see so few people that can support my views in this way -- most simply call me a bigot and homophobe because I won't go out and lobby for gay marriage.
I applaud you for your courage in expressing your honest opinion. Being a libertarian does NOT mean you have to approve of, or pretend to approve of, every religion, ethnicity, hairstyle, personality-type.
This is something I have repeatedly seen more radical libertarians seem to not understand. Sure, you should be allowed to do whatever the F you want as long as you're not hurting anyone else. That doesn't mean everyone is going to agree with you, or like you. It doesn't mean they may not treat you differently after you have let them know that you're really into close personal relationships with barnyard animals or whatever. Freedom of association includes the freedom to disassociate. Everybody doesn't have to like you. Waaaaah. Have a lollipop.
Quote from: Ogre on December 20, 2009, 07:38 AM NHFT
But I wonder if I'm in the minority because I see so few people that can support my views in this way -- most simply call me a bigot and homophobe because I won't go out and lobby for gay marriage.
First they came for the gays, and I did not speak out—because I was not a gay;
Then they came for the drugs, and I did not speak out—because I was not a drug user;
Then they came for the guns, and I did not speak out—because I was not a gun owner;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
If you won't stand up for their rights, they won't stand up for your rights. The political mob will consume your rights, like they did to every one else -- as you did nothing.
Quote from: thinkliberty on December 21, 2009, 08:16 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ogre on December 20, 2009, 07:38 AM NHFT
But I wonder if I'm in the minority because I see so few people that can support my views in this way -- most simply call me a bigot and homophobe because I won't go out and lobby for gay marriage.
First they came for the gays, and I did not speak out—because I was not a gay;
Then they came for the drugs, and I did not speak out—because I was not a drug user;
Then they came for the guns, and I did not speak out—because I was not a gun owner;
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak out for me.
If you won't stand up for their rights, they won't stand up for your rights. The political mob will consume your rights, like they did to every one else -- as you did nothing.
He specifically said he would defend your right to do something he thinks is wrong.
Quote from: Sovereign Curtis on December 21, 2009, 08:29 AM NHFT
Quote from: thinkliberty on December 21, 2009, 08:16 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ogre on December 20, 2009, 07:38 AM NHFT
But I wonder if I'm in the minority because I see so few people that can support my views in this way -- most simply call me a bigot and homophobe because I won't go out and lobby for gay marriage.
He specifically said he would defend your right to do something he thinks is wrong.
He specifically said he would not lobby for someone's right to gay marriage. He thinks it's wrong.
He won't speak up for a politically expendable group of people being picked on by political bullies.
Anyone being picked on by the state is an easy convert to liberty, unless you ignore that their rights are being violated,
Quote from: thinkliberty on December 21, 2009, 08:56 AM NHFT
Quote from: Sovereign Curtis on December 21, 2009, 08:29 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ogre on December 20, 2009, 07:38 AM NHFT
But I wonder if I'm in the minority because I see so few people that can support my views in this way -- most simply call me a bigot and homophobe because I won't go out and lobby for gay marriage.
He specifically said he would defend your right to do something he thinks is wrong.
He specifically said he would not lobby for someone's right to gay marriage. He thinks it's wrong.
He won't speak up for a politically expendable group of people being picked on by political bullies.
Anyone being picked on by the state is an easy convert to liberty, unless you ignore that their rights are being violated,
Dale also specifically said he wouldnt lobby the gov for the Right to marry a man. Is Dale not standing up for his own Rights? No. He feels that asking government permission for something that is none of government's business is counter productive.
How is having a state sanctioned marriage a "right"?
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 21, 2009, 09:19 AM NHFT
How is having a state sanctioned marriage a "right"?
It's not :icon_pirat:
It's permission
Who needs permission from the government?
Just so.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 21, 2009, 09:19 AM NHFT
How is having a state sanctioned marriage a "right"?
I think gay people have the right to collect money back from the federal and state government that their spouses were forced to pay in to after their spouse has died. Things like social security.
It would be nice to close down those government programs, but until that happens people have a right to get their money back.
Allowing some people to get their money back while others are denied is wrong.
People should be treated equally, under all the laws we can't get rid of.
As lifespans increase and religion continues to fade, one man one wife for life will become a forgotten thing of the past or at the very least, will be seem to be the strange lifestyle.
Most marriages already end in divorce. Of the ones that stay together, many do so for all the wrong reasons. They have too much "invested" in the relationship, they'll get screwed in the divorce, they'll look bad to their kids, family or neighbors, other guilt or they think they're too old to start over. All of these reason will continue to fall by the wayside. How many fifty year olds get divorced now? Wait till the average life span is 150 and they're thinking "Do I want to spend another century with this person?".
Why would serial monogamy be better than polygamy or simply an open relationship?
Why would anyone want their partner to have to ask permission from them in order to be intimate with someone else. This is one step removed from slavery. Oops, I mean voluntary servitude.
What type of person would say to their partner "No, you can't be intimate with anyone else. If I'm not meeting all of your emotional or physical needs, tough! I should be enough"?
It's been my experience that there are a higher percentage of people with non-traditional relationships in the FSP than in the gp, those new couples not withstanding.
p.s. Many of those couples with kids have aren't as traditional as some seem to think. Apparently a lot of that Victorian sexual frustration is released in New England basements (dungeons?).
Quote from: Keyser Soce on December 24, 2009, 05:17 PM NHFT
As lifespans increase and religion continues to fade, one man one wife for life will become a forgotten thing of the past or at the very least, will be seem to be the strange lifestyle.
Most marriages already end in divorce. Of the ones that stay together, many do so for all the wrong reasons. They have too much "invested" in the relationship, they'll get screwed in the divorce, they'll look bad to their kids, family or neighbors, other guilt or they think they're too old to start over. All of these reason will continue to fall by the wayside. How many fifty year olds get divorced now? Wait till the average life span is 150 and they're thinking "Do I want to spend another century with this person?".
Why would serial monogamy be better than polygamy or simply an open relationship?
Why would anyone want their partner to have to ask permission from them in order to be intimate with someone else. This is one step removed from slavery. Oops, I mean voluntary servitude.
What type of person would say to their partner "No, you can't be intimate with anyone else. If I'm not meeting all of your emotional or physical needs, tough! I should be enough"?.
why does this read/sound like Heinlein?
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 21, 2009, 05:02 AM NHFT
Quote from: CJS on December 19, 2009, 04:51 PM NHFT
My wife and I agreed that monogamy was unrealistic for us though neither of us has gone outside the marriage yet .
unrealistic .... yet reality
interesting
I think you are saying " Yet really interesting "
At the risk of misunderstanding you , I have been in monogamous relationships and remained faithful . I have been physically faithful to my wife but was / am in a "emotional " relationship with a woman I wish I could also make a life long commitment to ( my wife would love to have this lady in our family permanently and platonicly (sp?) on her end ) . This wonderful woman feels the same way but won't go there because of what the world thinks ... I would marry her in a second .
That being said , I have nothing against monogamy ... I support those who continue that familial tradition completely , nothing makes me happier than seeing people happy together . I was just honest with my wife when she started talking about marriage , and surprisingly she agreed with me . We are not swingers , though that is fine for consenting adults IMO . I just am aware that I would most likely not be happy only being with my wife the rest of my life and took personal responsibility for that before we tied the knot and gave her a chance to tell me to take a hike. Too bad we are only allowed one marriage license at a time ;D .
I just think this is one more instance of governmental interference in our lives .Societal bias and prejudice are the biggest obstacles to liberty in our lives than our elected overlords could ever hope to be . Sad . I don't care who you kiss , as long as you kiss often and kiss like it means something to you .
Quote from: CJS on December 24, 2009, 06:03 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 21, 2009, 05:02 AM NHFT
Quote from: CJS on December 19, 2009, 04:51 PM NHFT
My wife and I agreed that monogamy was unrealistic for us though neither of us has gone outside the marriage yet .
unrealistic .... yet reality
interesting
I think you are saying " Yet really interesting "
My take on Russell's post.
You talked about monogamy being unrealistic but the reality of your situation is monogamy.
The "proper" punctuation and capitalization would have been:
Unrealistic ... yet reality.
Interesting.
;) >:D
From long conversations on the subject, I'd say that Russell is most definitely not interested in poly.
;D
In that, we agree.
You and Russell o, you and Pat?
kat and i agree that patmc is always right
I shall step right on around this one - and they ain't mincing steps either! ;D
Showdown. :)
People in India are starving despite there being abundant food, primarily because their cultural taboos prohibit them from eating most of it.
It's very difficult for someone indoctrinated into a particular culture to look at other ways of living in a reasonable or even objective manner.
Quote from: error on December 26, 2009, 02:17 AM NHFT
People in India are starving despite there being abundant food, primarily because their cultural taboos prohibit them from eating most of it.
maybe starving is their goal
you might be looking at the issue through red meat, overfed american colored glasses ;)
i would guess most of them wish they could live the life we live here with plenty of food .... many of them move here every year .... always an objective measure of happiness
then if you get rich enough and fat enough in america you can go to india to find meaning in life ;D
Quote from: error on December 26, 2009, 02:17 AM NHFT
It's very difficult for someone indoctrinated into a particular culture to look at other ways of living in a reasonable or even objective manner.
YouTube - Broadcast Yourself. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Aej9wmoQ7M#)
OK...back to the topic at hand...beer in Utah (or was it polygamy?)
SQUATTERS HOP RISING 9% DOUBLE IPA
(http://www.thebeerspot.com/blogs/images/742.jpg)
This was some damn good beer!
is that Shorty Dawkins / Russell Kanning / Jim Johnson on the label??