New Hampshire Underground

NH activist: Fear got the better of us (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHOmffi0_gE#)


Mr. John Barnes invited myself and others  to a secret meeting a few months ago. At the meeting it was disclosed that we were invited to join this group to take over the government through  coup. I will clarify that there was no indication of violenece, thankyou allowing this modification of my original statement.

To join we had to be fingerprinted. I declined.

About this Ridley Report: 
The young man  no matter what his associations are, should not be mistreated, SHAME!!!  if what he says is true.
Mr Barnes if you want people to not fear, do not invite them to secret meetings to seek their fingerprints.   :o

Did he ask you to verbally declare your intent to violently overthrow the government while speaking directly into his third shirt button from the top? 

Oh shit! It's the third shirt button from the top!
SOB I always check the first one. DOH...................

Did Barnes ever get around to saying anything?  With the errs and uhhs, I had to shut it off. My new rule is that if a man, or woman, has no beard, but has that chin thing, I run the other way.

i like patty

Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on July 10, 2010, 05:17 AM NHFT
Did Barnes ever get around to saying anything?  With the errs and uhhs, I had to shut it off. My new rule is that if a man, or woman, has no beard, but has that chin thing, I run the other way.

Stop trying to spread a rumor that you can still run.   :P

Hobble

Thanks, I need to clarify it was a plan to demand that elected officials step down and turn over government to appointed committee. Did sound like a more peaceful form of coup. I believe it was presented as a plan that sounded like one of the peaceful coups in Grenada before the US got involved officially as I recall  in the 1980s.   It involved a long reading of legitimate sounding grievances addressing US government mistakes.

The fingerprinting of those to be invited to sign was a huge red flag for me. For me, fingerprinting violates standard sense about maintaining one's security. Anyone else recall the meeting and like to discuss this? I invite Barnes to address why we need to be fingerprinted other than the lame explanation of using fingerprinting like an oath of allegiance or some BS sounding weirdness.  Barnes did not lead the meeting but got us there. It was presented by some people who I never met before.  It was surely not legit revolutionary planning IMO.
I became suspicious of Mr Barnes after that. I could be paranoid and unfair to him but I maintain it is not cool to to seek fingerprints of peaceful people and not expect people to become suspicious. ::)

I'm with you Pattylee. . . if my friends wanted to fingerprint me I wouldn't comply.  Usually people that aren't my friends are the only ones wanting to fingerprint me.

So I watched the first video...

'Infiltration can't cause any harm.'

COINTELPRO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COINTELPRO)

I don't trust either one of the guys in the video... Their selling something. Condescending to be a new guy telling folks how to do it right.  Might I suggest doing it right would entail not going around sending out NARC vibes.

'Hey we don't know each other at all, but will you commit a felony with me?'

Still telling people that Mr. Marketing's camp site was invaded, when the truth of an honest mistake has come out.

Trust is something to be earned. Going around creating drama and then acting hurt that people don't trust you...

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on July 10, 2010, 10:08 AM NHFT
Going around creating drama and then acting hurt that people don't trust you...

He's threatened me, Ian Freeman, and everyone who has posted in the Free Keene Forum thread with violence, also... 

This guy is bad news...  IMHO.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on July 10, 2010, 10:08 AM NHFT
I don't trust either one of the guys in the video... Their selling something.

That was my impression as well. Mr. Barnes' mouth is hanging open waiting for the "cue" to start acting out his script.

I agree completely with Tom Sawyer's assessment.

I don't watch the Ridley Report but - this sure sounds like the secret meeting one Barnes fellow wanted to hold at Hoyt.
None of us who live here were interested in participating in his craziness.
He was told that if he talked about this nonsense here at Hoyt we would probably laugh and ridicule. He was also told that we were not interested in keeping his little secrets.
Needless to say; he QUICKLY lost interest in holding his meeting here --- and we Hoytions were spared being board to tears at best, and becoming part of some harebrained fantasy plot to "force" some politicians out of office at worst.

Do these types of artificially flavored "libertarians" just naturally gravitate towards each other? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction on this and it's just a matter of some folks getting a really big delight out of simply creeping everyone out.

;D

Quote from: Dan Steward on July 10, 2010, 12:55 PM NHFT
Do these types of artificially flavored "libertarians" just naturally gravitate towards each other? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction on this and it's just a matter of some folks getting a really big delight out of simply creeping everyone out.

;D

Unfortunately, they all seem to gravitate to the top of the FSP Board of Directors.

I wasn't involved in the meeting discussions, but told Barnes not to come back Hoyt after he threatened to punch Russell.  ::)

Quote from: Dan Steward on July 10, 2010, 12:55 PM NHFT
artificially flavored "libertarians"

;D

That's a good descriptor...

With a few people I am listening and it dawns on me... this guy doesn't use any of the standard "libertarian" talking points...

Quote from: Kat Kanning on July 10, 2010, 02:17 PM NHFT
I wasn't involved in the meeting discussions, but told Barnes not to come back Hoyt after he threatened to punch Russell.  ::)

Of all the folks I can imagine wanting to punch... Russell is at the end of the list.    ;D

yea Barnes lost it on the phone with me .... I held the phone out for the others to hear him swearing at me

both of these guys have not wanted things to be brought out into the open on the internet

On the day that happened I was visiting the man cave and John B. did lose it on the phone with Russell.  At first I thought he was goofing around, then I realized he wasn't.   I told him, I  thought it would be a really good idea if he called Russell back and apologize.  It was preceded by a kind of awkward silence as Lloyd and I realized John WASN'T goofing around.  Lloyd and I and maybe Rich let John B.  know we weren't cool with his outburst.   

John  did call  Russell back and apologize.   I give John credit for that, but I'm still not impressed with his behavior on that day.  It wasn't cool at all.  I will confess I kept my cool but I remember thinking he better not tell ME he was going to punch ME in the mouth.   I'm a firm believer in the NAP principle, but for a second I almost lost it because he was threatening a pacifist! I almost said something about leaving him (Russell) the fuck alone, and picking on somebody else but all you nonviolent types have mellowed me.  I'm proud to say I asked him to call and apologize and he did. 

 

I'm a pretty private person, but that's not the same as being secretive. I respect other people's privacy, but being secretive has come to be a pretty fair indicator that someone in the NH liberty movement is really up to no good.

I think everyone can think of at least a couple of examples.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on July 10, 2010, 03:47 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on July 10, 2010, 02:17 PM NHFTI wasn't involved in the meeting discussions, but told Barnes not to come back Hoyt after he threatened to punch Russell.  ::)

Of all the folks I can imagine wanting to punch... Russell is at the end of the list.    ;D

But he just smiles so much.

Joe

Kira didn't like him at first because he smiled too much.

Quote from: Kat Kanning begin_of_the_skype_highlighting     end_of_the_skype_highlighting on July 11, 2010, 06:13 AM NHFT
Kira didn't like him at first because he smiled too much.

Like me, she's learning to trust her gut.  Rather, for ladys, it's feminine intuition.  :)

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on July 10, 2010, 03:46 PM NHFT

Quote from: Dan Steward on July 10, 2010, 12:55 PM NHFT
artificially flavored "libertarians"

That's a good descriptor...

With a few people I am listening and it dawns on me... this guy doesn't use any of the standard "libertarian" talking points...

You've really hit on something that I've noticed before that struck me as really weird regarding some people.  It's like they're trying to fake libertarianism and they're coming across as a bad stereotype of a libertarian from the point of view of someone who's actually still quite indoctrinated and brain-washed.  It's like, you can't really fake it because if you understand it, you would actually BE one.  The only way to be convincing as a libertarian is to actually get it.

It's like all the political players are wanting things to be this way or that way and they can talk about why they want things a certain way and libertarians are the only ones saying "Look, what you want or what I want means nothing.  All that matters is what's right and wrong."  But they just try to figure out what libertarians want and just come out and say "I want that too."  You actually have to figure out right and wrong, and if you actually manage that despite a world overflowing with bad propaganda and intimidation, then you can perhaps speak convincingly, but then you can't stomach supporting the monopoly governments anymore.

If you actually get liberty, you can't help but love it.

Yup.  It's like the Census guy they sent to my house.  He gave his spiel about Federal money helping NH and all that.  I'm sure he was trained how to deal with folks getting angry and ranting about taxes, wasteful spending, and the Constitution.  He just went blank when I told him I didn't care.  Wanting to change how his system operates, he could grasp.  That someone would consider his whole system to be irrelevant was just not an option that existed in his mind.

Joe

in case it matters to anyone John Barnes does or did have an account here. He might be going by firewall99 or something
I have not talked with him since that day. I don't think.

He is probably oblivious to this forum except when he post an event like Appleseed.

Not to be confused with Richard Barnes, aka lildog.

Quote

It's like all the political players are wanting things to be this way or that way and they can talk about why they want things a certain way and libertarians are the only ones saying "Look, what you want or what I want means nothing.  All that matters is what's right and wrong."  But they just try to figure out what libertarians want and just come out and say "I want that too."  You actually have to figure out right and wrong, and if you actually manage that despite a world overflowing with bad propaganda and intimidation, then you can perhaps speak convincingly, but then you can't stomach supporting the monopoly governments anymore.

That reminds me of when Tom Ridge asked me what McCain would have to say to get the Ron Paul people to back him.  It ain't what you say, baby, it's who you are and how you live your life.

As a NH native who attends OC trash pickups,occasional hearings and tea parties,I'm not really hip to the goings on except as a kinda voyeur to those that live the life rather than talk about it.I admire the sacrifice some make to protect and recover my freedoms. There was a time when I would have called paranoia,but it's not paranoia if they really are after you.Would the govt.go to that extreme? Yeah I think they would.

Quote from: KBCraig on July 11, 2010, 06:20 PM NHFT
Not to be confused with Richard Barnes, aka lildog.

Yes thank you!!

I started reading this thread talking about Mr. Barnes and I'm thinking 'oh crap, what did I do now'.  Took till the 2nd page of the thread before I saw the first name.

I don't know who this John Barnes guy is but I'm in no way related to him.  In fact the only other Barnes members in NH that I'm related to in any way are my wife and two kids.

;D

Damn!!  Disowning your own brother!! :P

Quote from: BJ on July 10, 2010, 01:02 PM NHFT

Quote from: Dan Steward on July 10, 2010, 12:55 PM NHFT
Do these types of artificially flavored "libertarians" just naturally gravitate towards each other? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction on this and it's just a matter of some folks getting a really big delight out of simply creeping everyone out.

;D

Unfortunately, they all seem to gravitate to the top of the FSP Board of Directors.

Do I know you? or you know me?

Quote from: cathleeninnh on July 12, 2010, 12:59 PM NHFT

Quote from: BJ on July 10, 2010, 01:02 PM NHFT

Quote from: Dan Steward on July 10, 2010, 12:55 PM NHFT
Do these types of artificially flavored "libertarians" just naturally gravitate towards each other? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction on this and it's just a matter of some folks getting a really big delight out of simply creeping everyone out.

;D

Unfortunately, they all seem to gravitate to the top of the FSP Board of Directors.

Do I know you? or you know me?

TAKE COVER!

Quote from: Jim Johnson on July 12, 2010, 02:46 PM NHFT

Quote from: cathleeninnh on July 12, 2010, 12:59 PM NHFT

Quote from: BJ on July 10, 2010, 01:02 PM NHFT

Quote from: Dan Steward on July 10, 2010, 12:55 PM NHFT
Do these types of artificially flavored "libertarians" just naturally gravitate towards each other? Maybe I'm looking in the wrong direction on this and it's just a matter of some folks getting a really big delight out of simply creeping everyone out.

;D

Unfortunately, they all seem to gravitate to the top of the FSP Board of Directors.

Do I know you? or you know me?

TAKE COVER!

Erm, I just heard that the FSP Board hired Christopher Marketing. Is that a wild rumor or...well, true?

Sorry I don't pay more attention to the FSP Board. I don't even know who's on it except for Varrin.

Quote from: PattyLee loves dogs on July 09, 2010, 11:17 PM NHFT
we were invited to join this group to take over the government through  coup.

;)

Tunga has heard that this group goes by the name RDS? Which stands for Royal Duchebag Society. It's one of those Al CIAda spin offs isn't it?  :o

 ;D

Quote

QuoteUnfortunately, they all seem to gravitate to the top of the FSP Board of Directors.

Quote
Do I know you? or you know me?

QuoteTAKE COVER!

Erm, I just heard that the FSP Board hired Christopher Marketing. Is that a wild rumor or...well, true?

It would be to the advantage of any (and that is saying that they exist - just to keep me from looking like a conspiracy nut) entity that would wish to do the FSP harm for the project to be set up in the way it is currently.

Varrin is an airline pilot, so as president of the FSP, he is gone a lot, I presume. During his absence, vile clods that would wish us all to be falsely portrayed as either statists or worse violent, could do harm to the reputation of the FSP.

One fake freedom activist of a jerk prancing around and making himself look absurd by acting against the principles of liberty (i.e. lawsuit hustler, violates NAP, etc) will succeed only in making himself look like a schmuck.

Of course, *if* the rest of the FSP board, and I don't know who else is on the board, is not acting in the interest of the project, then we all have problems. The Libertarian Party got into bed with some very non-libertarian types some time back and they just went from just only ineffective, to laughable, to eventually being unprincipled statists.     

I wholeheartedly feel that we should take a much closer look at our "leaders" and any presumably democratic governing board when it comes to liberty. Because of the very nature of their leadership roles, more than just cursory attention should be paid to their activities. Ask yourself "are they truly acting in the best interests of the FSP all of the time?"

They are a vital link in the chain of getting people to come to New Hampshire in the first place. There is nothing wrong in making sure that these people are stand up kind of guys and purging ourselves of those that personally happen to suck. Especially since they run the board in a supposedly "democratic" way.

I wouldn't have even raised this question but it got me wondering when Mr. Fingerprint Coup, a.k.a. John Barnes was compared to any presumed lousy leadership in the FSP. If Mekker is involved in marketing for the FSP then something very wrong likely is afoot.

Quote from: lildog on July 12, 2010, 10:18 AM NHFTI don't know who this John Barnes guy is but I'm in no way related to him.  In fact the only other Barnes members in NH that I'm related to in any way are my wife and two kids. ;D

Then you're not related to Jack Barnes of (I think it is) Raymond, NH. He is in the state legislature and I think pretty anti Liberty.

Quote from: John on July 12, 2010, 11:18 PM NHFTThen you're not related to Jack Barnes of (I think it is) Raymond, NH. He is in the state legislature and I think pretty anti Liberty.

"Pretty anti-liberty" is an understatement.

The guy makes other Statists look good, in comparison.  He denied permission for the "yoga for peace" group to hold their event in Raymond, and publicly stated that his reason was that they had "peace" in the name of their group.  Also wrote a rant in the local paper about how two gas stations charging different prices is "extortion," and we need to have the Feds intervene to force uniform gas prices.

Among other lovely bits of insanity...  Guy's a loon.

Joe

Quote from: Dan Steward on July 12, 2010, 09:57 PM NHFT
One fake freedom activist of a jerk prancing around and making himself look absurd by acting against the principles of liberty (i.e. lawsuit hustler, violates NAP, etc) will succeed only in making himself look like a schmuck.

I can't wait until he invites all the Glenn Beck listeners to join.  ::)

 
I am not in NH and no one has met me yet so I try hard not to get involved in the real nuts and bolts of your activism , but I have a serious question for any one who attended this meeting where fingerprints were requested /

Why the hell did it take so long for it to become public knowledge amongst those who have moved and taken up the fight ? I have first hand experience with "narcs" befriending me and even cops that tried to fit in with groups i belonged to a life time ago .

Why would any one keep that info from people who may have been associating with him ? Especially when using words that traditionaly equate with violence like the word coup ?

Feel free to tell me to mind my own damn biz .

Chris

 ;) ;)
Dear CJS, If you note the thread: "Peaceful but Violent" on this forum in April of 2010; myself and others were voicing questions about the individuals promoting this group. Some private discussions ensued but not publicized as there is no outright evidence just suspicion based  on patterns of behavior. I would be very careful not to engage in potentially damaging and unfair "witch hunts" and by the same token do not be exposed. Others should earn trust over a long time, right?

Hi Tunga, I think the CIA needs a lot more investigation by freedom loving persons. There is a good book review by Bill Walker: "C.I.A.; Legacy of Ashes" read on LewRockwell.com
:_fire__by_zacthetoad:

The paranoia and witch hunts that have in the past and currently, are not healthy.  Paranoia paralyzes. 

The way to protect ones self is to remain relatively open.  The open discussion format of this and other forums like it is great. 

No one can accuse me of conspiring in smoke filled rooms, because I don't do it.  No one can accuse me of threatening violence, because my method is to stand in front of their damn cars, in full daylight, not make 'secret' plans to overthrow anything. 

If a gov't undercover, or the more likely narc, or a uniformed cop, ask me what my plans are, I will tell them that I believe in peace, and when I am tired of backing up, I will assert my rights by some method of civil disobedience. 

They are going to try to stop us, that is what they do.  I cannot control that, I can only control what I do, and hope that I do the right thing without too many mistakes.