Poll
Question:
Do you plan on attending the rally against RealID in Concord, on April 22?
Option 1: Yes
votes: 17
Option 2: No
votes: 8
Option 3: Probably
votes: 3
Option 4: Probably Not
votes: 3
Option 5: Not Sure
votes: 2
Senate vote on Wednesday May 3rd.
From Jenn:
The plan is to show up Tues and Wed morning from 7:30am - 9:30am and stand near the parking garage holding signs...It would be cool if some where home made and said "I will not vote for anyone who supports Real ID" If we could get a couple of dozen people to do this it will speak to them.
I have to get to work, now and would love it if someone could take up organizing this for me. Please e-mail me if you can help. On Wed we will all go in and sit in the galley to watch the vote, we have reason to believe it will be the first one of the day about 10am.
Remember be nice, the reason the smoking bill failed was because they got nasty with the Senators and lost them with that and form letters. If we are nice they can't get mad at us and it makes it harder to go against us and with washington.
------
To find out the latest on the senate real id , hb1582 situation , head to the end of this thread. Last i heard the senate committee votes april 26
-----
Rally in support of HB1582, opting NH out of Real ID
Saturday Apr. 22 11a-1p
State House, Concord (Louden and Main)
If turnout at the senate hearing on Apr. 10 was any indication, this will be a pretty big rally. I've never seen so many Liberals and Conservatives and libertarians come together so resolutely to oppose something evil.
Apr 22 will be a full fledged publicity stunt, probably including some kind of concentration camp theme. CASPIAN may also try to make it something of a national event with folks coming from all over.
The goal is to put pressure on the senate to pass HB1582 or, failing that, to at least shine the spotlight on the evils of national ID and on NH as the "resistance leader" against it.
Yes!
If this passes... it seems like it can almost make up for all the other BAD bills that have been passing.
I'll be there.
With reinforcements.
My grandfather fought and was injured at the Battle of the Buldge so that we would never have to hear "Your papers, please" in this country....
JM
One of many reasons we need to make ourselves heard about this.
They are already instututing ways to keep tabs on us in this state that have already begun (namely the e-z pass system), we can't keep letting more things happen.
And one of the worst things about this system is that it is only a gateway to much worse things. If this happens, how much more is to come?
I'd rather not find out.
I'm going to try to come, and bring a libertarian friend.
Should I bring a sign?
Yes, bringing a sign is a good idea.
We should come up with some clever ideas for things to write down.
Quote from: 1984IsNow on March 24, 2006, 08:16 PM NHFT
We should come up with some clever ideas for things to write down.
"1984... doesn't have to be now."
;)
sent this to amy who is designing the visuals for the handout on this
-----
Here's a draft of the half page handout announcemnt. Joel may have corrections.
RALLY AGAINST FEDERAL ID
Do you like dealing with the IRS and other federal agencies? Then you'll love "Real I.D." It's a Washington scheme to make you carry an expensive, Federally-imposed identification card...a card which could eventually track your every move. "Papers, please!"
Fortunately, the New Hampshire House...led by Rep. Neal Kurk of Weare...has voted to *defy* Washington and keep our state out of the Real ID system. This will save us millions of dollars and help preserve *your* privacy.
But power-hungry DC bureaucrats are not ready to let New Hampshire keep her freedoms without a fight. Their goal is to kill Representative Kurk's bill in the state senate. And they will succeed if you do not join the fight. Here's how you can help:
Come to our rally on April 22. We and privacy advocates of all political stripes will descend on the State House in Concord that day to urge our senators: Stand up to the Feds. Tell them we will not go along with their unfunded, unconstitutional Real ID mandate. The nation looks to New Hampshire for leadership on matters like these. We must not let them down.
What: Rally in favor of House Bill 1582, which would prevent New Hampshire from participating in "Real ID."
Who: NHCASPIAN (www.NHCASPIAN.org) and every group we could think of to invite.
Where: New Hampshire State House, 107 N. Main St., Concord NH
When: 11:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. Saturday, April 22, 2006
Why: To prevent higher spending and taxation, to keep lines from getting longer at the DMV, to prevent the federal government from more easily tracking *your* activities.
How: To make our point, we plan to set up a mock Federal concentration camp and demand "papers please!" from anyone who wants to enter or leave it. Other symbols of protest may include "Real ID tattoos" on our forearms and "Real ID armbands." Bring your own symbols and costumes if you like, but most of all bring YOU!
Contacts: _____
Amy: The image i think would best go with this wording would be a picture of a person's forearm , containing the numbering and lettering that you would see on a holocaust victim. But instead of the numbering it could say "real ID"
another option would be a jewish star armband that says real id but still includes the star. but i like the forearm better. maybe if tehre were barbed wire in the pic that would help too.
I don't know who to list as contacts, i will leave that up to you and joel.
what needs to be written next, who do I send it to and what is the deadline?
Hearing; April 10, 2006, Room 103, State House, 10:30 a.m.
Anybody going to go and testify? I'm afraid the senate will be harder to win over on Real ID. I think part of the house's reason for passing the bill was the great testimony given on it. I haven't heard back yet from my senator (Gallus), and I doubt I will.
Unfortunately I'm going to be sitting through some compulsory government education in English at the time this bill comes to the floor of the senate. I hope a few free staters can be there with it to help it pass!
We need to get everyone emailing all the Senators on this just like we did with the Reps for HB1177( and should still be doing to the Senators).
We should keep a tally of who replies and whether they are in favor or not.
Still no word from Gallus. I'll email him again... I'll send one to a few other senators too.
Bumping. I have no idea why I didn't make this thread in NH politics... oops!
Anybody interested in offering testimony to the senators?
I emailed Gallus:
Senator Gallus - Please oppose the passage of HB1177. This bill only restricts the rights of the owner of the property, the restaurant. It is a bill being pushed by restaurant owners who do allow smoking, but are afraid of disallowing smoking because they would lose business. The NH restaurant and lodging assiciation has previously opposed a smoking ban, because of the implications it has on property rights.
Employees and patrons are well aware that they are entering a location that allows smoking when they do so, and decide to take a job or eat there. There is no forcing them to take a job, there is no forcing them to eat. It is about choice. All about choice, for your business, to whom you give your business and your working power.
If enough people didn't eat at an establishment, and voted with their feet, because it allowed smoking, I'm sure the owner would reconsider his policy. But please, don't force him to.
New Hampshire needs more economic and personal freedom, to encourage people to come to live, work, and operate businesses here. This law is another turn-off to doing all three.
Thank you for your time, and I hope to be thanking you for your vote of NO on HB1177.
No reply.
What: Massive Coalition Protest Against National ID
When: Saturday, April 22, from 11am-1pm.
Where: State Capitol Building, Concord
NH CASPIAN is coordinating a coalition RALLY from 11am-1pm at the State Capitol in Concord on Saturday, April 22nd.
At the protest, I'll be holding an anti-government sign (designed by Roger) to help decrease the consent of the governed. ;) There will be political effects to this event, but that's because it is going to be an enormous event! We plan to create a nazi-style DHS "papers please" checkpoint to show what the real effect of National ID will be, but these brown suits will have DHS armbands instead of swastikas.
The size of the coalition being built is unprecedented from what I've ever been involved in. CNN will be at the event. National civil liberties groups are flying in representatives to our coalition meeting tomorrow (Thursday) at Bickford's after our 6pm NH Caspian meeting. Coalition organizations will literally be shipping people to Concord by the busload.
It is my hope that everyone from the Underground comes out to the event and brings everyone they know, and a LOT of anti-government signs. :) :) :) This is going to be huge! Please pass this along to as many people as possible. E-mail it around, post it everywhere, and pass around flyers and propaganda if you can. ;) More info and flyers may be available at NHCaspian.org in the future.
I'd like to help with the FSP adopt-a-highway cleanup -- perhaps we should move the date of it. I plan on attending the April 19th trial so I'll see you there.
Feel free to put this on the Underground front page. I don't know if my Wiki login is working. If anyone wants my new phone number, it's 765-8100.
I can't be there for this, but I did put it on my blog (http://libertarianactivism.com/blog/). Hopefully this will help out in some way shape or form.
Slyvia Larsen said she is undecided but has a problem with Fed interfering with Privacy issues. So that sounds like a yea.
Also check out this LTE today:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/REPOSITORY/603300330/1029/OPINION03
I am going to try and find this guy and invite him to the rally and this forum.
We need more LTEs (mentioning the rally).
Will there be random searches of old ladies purses like at the real ones in airports?
If I have to get a patdown, I want Russell to do it >:D
Be sure to bring your binoculars, maps, video cameras, handheld casette recorders, etc. ;)
I can't help with the FSP Litter Pickup on the Sabbath. :(
Depends on who you talk to...my mother and Jewish people keep it on Saturday.
Wouls that be 1st Day Adventist or 2nd Day Adventist(calendar)?
Quote from: Michael Fisher on March 30, 2006, 10:47 AM NHFT
Be sure to bring your binoculars, maps, video cameras, handheld casette recorders, etc. ;)
I can't help with the FSP Litter Pickup on the Sabbath. :(
'Keeping the Sabbath holy' I would say that cleaning up the earth would qualify.
Hey Mike,
Welcome back!
Have you thought about signing up for First1000?
www.pledgebank.com/first1000
Thanks
Quote from: Dreepa on March 30, 2006, 12:13 PM NHFT
Hey Mike,
Welcome back!
Have you thought about signing up for First1000?
www.pledgebank.com/first1000
Thanks
Done! :)
I got "this" close to signing the First1000 pledge, until I re-read it and noticed the date. Hubby, son, and I plan to move within five years of today regardless of how many move, but can't pledge to be there by the end of 2008.
Shucks.
Quote from: lawofattraction on March 30, 2006, 11:40 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on March 30, 2006, 11:15 AM NHFT
Wouls that be 1st Day Adventist or 2nd Day Adventist(calendar)?
Well, I'm not an Adventist (as in thinking the return of Christ is imminent), and I am flexible, doing the Sabbath on Monday only when it is convenient. So the proper name for me might be a 2nd Day Pragmatic Sabbatarian. But religion is as unique as each person experiencing it, so I prefer to avoid labels.
I was Joking. I thought Adventist meant advocate. Some of my ancestors started the 7th Day Adventist Babtist Church, stating that " Only the Lord can set the sabbath Day (Sunday) and not some governing authority", so I thought it meant advocate.
This sounds like a good event... we are planning to attend. :)
Quote from: Dreepa on March 30, 2006, 08:07 AM NHFT
Slyvia Larsen said she is undecided but has a problem with Fed interfering with Privacy issues. So that sounds like a yea.
Also check out this LTE today:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060330/REPOSITORY/603300330/1029/OPINION03
I am going to try and find this guy and invite him to the rally and this forum.
We need more LTEs (mentioning the rally).
Google for him using his first and last names and town name. Phone directory entry shows up.
Also, LP News LTE from him.
Welcome back Mike. I wish I could be there. This sounds like an awesome event. I hope to see NHFree.com represented in a major way!
Quote from: Dreepa on March 30, 2006, 08:07 AM NHFT
I am going to try and find this guy and invite him to the rally and this forum.
JOHN A LEWICKE Born 1969 928 STARCH MILL RD GREENVILLE, NH 03048 (603) 878-2610
I'm Muslim damnit and I celebrate it on Friday! :evil: OK, not really, but if we had large groups of all of the above, we could strech it out to a 3 or 4 day extravaganza ;)
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 Senate Hearing; === CANCELLED === April 26, 2006, Room 103, State House, 10:30 a.m.
Thursday, March 30, 2006 Senate Hearing; April 10, 2006, Room 103, State House, 1:00 p.m.
UH OH!
Better get the gears moving.
It's in 10 days!
(what about the rally!?)
In other news, the smoking ban is ITL in the senate by committe :)
With regard to the armband idea, how about the armband says real id instead of DHS? that way it hits the target directly, and not that many folks know what dhs is.
Anyone have sign ideas?
Mine include:
Fed ID =
U Not Free
NHfree.com
and
"Papers Please!"
(with some kind of nazi picture)
Are you guys still going to have this since the date for the vote was bumped back to the 10th?
sent a msg to katherine about this
Isn't that just the committee vote, with the full Senate voting on it later?
Quote from: aries on March 31, 2006, 07:35 PM NHFT
Are you guys still going to have this since the date for the vote was bumped back to the 10th?
Argh. Someone must have caught wind of the protest and moved the vote back! :(
We're going to lose all political support for the rally now and it may be cancelled. :(
bleh.
Arg >:(
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 01, 2006, 05:33 AM NHFT
We're going to lose all political support for the rally now and it may be cancelled. :(
What political support?
Are you really going to cancel it?
Quote from: russellkanning on April 01, 2006, 06:02 AM NHFT
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 01, 2006, 05:33 AM NHFT
We're going to lose all political support for the rally now and it may be cancelled. :(
What political support?
Are you really going to cancel it?
Well the date would have to be moved back to... very soon.
This is what the email I got from gencourt said:
Thursday, March 30, 2006 Senate Hearing; April 10, 2006, Room 103, State House, 1:00 p.m.
Wednesday, March 22, 2006 Senate Hearing; === CANCELLED === April 26, 2006, Room 103, State House, 10:30 a.m So barrage your senators with calls and emails... if we can't rally in person, we can online.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 01, 2006, 12:20 AM NHFT
sent a msg to katherine about this
I changed the title to reflect the new date, and the urgency of contacting all of our senators about it.
Has anyone heard back from any Senators?
I will email them all again.
Sent this to Senator Fuller Clark and will send to some or all of the others as well
---
For Senator Fuller Clark, opposing Real ID, supporting HB1582
Mahatma Gandhi on "Real ID"
Dear Senator Fuller Clark:
Regarding House Bill 1582, which would place New Hampshire in defiance of the hated Real ID act, history speaks to us.
Near the turn of the last century, British rulers attempted to impose similar, vexatious "identity papers" upon communities in South Africa. One group, the Indian minority, resisted...led by a young lawyer named Mohandas Gandhi. History remembers him as "Mahatma Gandhi."
Gathering them in a meeting hall - perhaps the closest thing they had to our State House - Gandhi asked his community to swear an Oath, pledging that they would not submit to the identity Ordinance, and would suffer all of the penalties attached to such peaceful resistance. He warned them of the risks they were taking.
"...It is not at all impossible," he said, "that we may have to endure every hardship that we can imagine...
"We may have to go to jail, where we may be insulted...Suffering from starvation and similar hardships...some of us may fall ill and even die."
But, he added: "If someone asks me when and how the struggle may end, I may say that if the entire community manfully stands the test, the end will be near. If many of us fall back under storm and stress, the struggle will be prolonged. But...so long as there is even a handful of men true to their pledge, there can be only one end to the struggle, and that is victory."
There followed a seven-year struggle in which thousands of Indians including Gandhi were jailed, flogged, or even shot, for refusing to register, burning their identity cards and and other peaceful resistance. But by 1915 they had won.
How much smaller the risks we face in resisting today, and how much higher the stakes, as almost 300 million Americans stand at the edge of an *abyss.* Authorities are birthing a system that would allow the rise of a police state in America. This nation, maybe more than you realize, looks to New Hampshire for inspiration and for leadership. They look to us to say "no" when no is the only moral thing that can be said.
Senator Fuller Clark, please say no to de-facto Federal ID, and *yes* to HB1582, which pledges our peaceful non-cooperation with this modern equivalent of a British occupier, Washington D.C.
There appears to be a deficit of information coming from NHcaspian about the apr 22 demonstration. I dont' see much about it on their site. Anyone who knows what's going on please post it here. Here is what I know:
I talked to mike fisher and gathered that there is some consternation regarding the move of the hearing to april 10. The rally is now apparently got so many people involved it has become possibly unmovable and NHcaspian folks feel stuck with the apr 22 date.
at the march 30 Caspian meeting the head of the national aclu apparently showed up. lots of others getting involved. But will this rally occur after it's too late...like the Battle of New Orleans in the early 1800s?
when is the full vote of the senate>? They can overturn even an ITL correct?
There appears to be a deficit of information coming from NHcaspian about the apr 22 demonstration. I dont' see much about it on their site. Anyone who knows what's going on please post it here. Here is what I know:
I talked to mike fisher and gathered that there is some consternation regarding the move of the hearing to april 10. The rally is now apparently got so many people involved it has become possibly unmovable and NHcaspian folks feel stuck with the apr 22 date.
at the march 30 Caspian meeting the head of the national aclu apparently showed up. lots of others getting involved. But will this rally occur after it's too late...like the Battle of New Orleans in the early 1800s?
when is the full vote of the senate>? They can overturn even an ITL correct?
Well, you have to understand the nature of this event. NH Caspian designed it to be a broad-based coalition event with possibly thousands of people in attendance.
It all began by looking at recent protests in several states which hosted 30,000 or 1,000,000 people. One of these actually affected legislation. How did they organize such massive events? Gandhi- or MLK-style events are successful for people with a certain personality, but most people do not approach change in that way. A coalition may or may not be the best way to organize an event -- I'm not really sure yet.
The more broad the coalition, the larger the protest will be, but the most extreme messages may be washed down by the moderates and politicos. In the end, if success is met, does that really matter at all? It depends on who you ask.
In this case, the political backers may lose interest because the timing of the event has changed and it's probably too big to accomplish in under 10 days if we move up the date. Regardless, the full senate vote should not occur until after the protest regardless of the committee hearing. *shrug*
I'll let you know what's going on within 24 hours.
If the govt can get around protests simply by moving important dates around, that shows a need for flexibility on the protestors' part... of course the larger the protest is, the more difficult a reschedule. That said, it must be easier now in the information age. I hope we can evolve to meet this tactic on the state's part.
Wow, 3,000 posts... that's triple-llama.
(http://www.billybear4kids.com/animal/whose-toes/llama.jpg)
;)
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 01, 2006, 05:01 PM NHFT
If the govt can get around protests simply by moving important dates around, that shows a need for flexibility on the protestors' part... of course the larger the protest is, the more difficult a reschedule. That said, it must be easier now in the information age. I hope we can evolve to meet this tactic on the state's part.
I agree.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/billstatus/billstatus.asp
Does this HB have a chance of failing?
I would assume that all here and in the senate are for this bill to pass, as the national ID system is a direct violation of, well...... "everything" My frickin' drivers license is bad enough! This goverment has us all right by the cohones. This would just be the icing on the cake for those greedy scumbags! I hope this passes. This could be the first step for bigger things to come :D.
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 01, 2006, 05:22 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 01, 2006, 05:01 PM NHFT
If the govt can get around protests simply by moving important dates around, that shows a need for flexibility on the protestors' part... of course the larger the protest is, the more difficult a reschedule. That said, it must be easier now in the information age. I hope we can evolve to meet this tactic on the state's part.
I agree.
Did they move it because of the rally? Are people sure on this? Or is this just a rumor?
LLAMAS! YOU HAVE NOTHING TO LOOSE BUT YOUR CHAINS AND WEIRD EAR TAGS!! :D
Hi, Guys:
Sorry for not keeping you more in the loop. Joel Winters attended the Merrimack Porcupine meeting (I think I have that right) in Manchester yesterday, so everyone there got an update. Here is what is happening so far:
- We are working to get as many phone calls and emails as possible pouring into the senators' inboxes this coming week -- and especially next weekend leading up to the vote. We are focusing our efforts on constituents represented by senators on the Public and Municipal Affairs committee (Barnes-R, Burling-D, Hassan-D, Kenney-R, Martel-R, and Roberge-R) along with the Senate leadership (Gatsas-R, Clegg-R, and Larsen-D).
- We have created a flyer listing all the towns represented by these selected senators, along with phone numbers and contact info for each one. It will soon be up on the NH CASPIAN website, or you can ask Joel to email you a copy. We need people to go out into those Senate districts with their cell phones programmed to speed dial the senator and elicit phone comments from constituents. The mall, the park (great weather for that!), the dump, anywhere else you can think of to generate maximum calls to the Senators would be great.
- We have ordered 200 yard signs to place strategically in those 9 districts. Monetary donations and help with placement are needed.
- We would like to place an ad in 9 different newspapers on Monday morning to run the weekend before the vote encouraging residents to contact their Senator and urge a yes vote. Again, monetary donations and help with placement are needed.
- The ACLU and CATO institute (talk about weird bedfellows) will be coming to town to do a media event on this, as will Sununu, possibly. This would be a good time for us to do our "papers please" theatrical event. Any volunteers to help?
- We need people to testify at the hearing, Monday, April 10th at 1:00 PM.
More when I know more.
- Katherine
I've posted the april 10 hearing date to the calendar here. Also what are everyone's thoughts regarding holding a spot demonstration in front of the State House, smaller than the apr 22 demo by far but timely? What time do you think it should be held?
Some demonstrators looks better than none at all. An April 10 demonstration is a good idea. As for a time, I'd suggest one to two hours befor the debate opens. Which would be between 11 and 12.
If anyone wants to testify before the committee, and rehash the excellent speech that swayed the house vote, the video record of the vote is here: http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/default.html
Date: march 8th
Video time: 4hr, 8min
So is it still on for the 22nd?
I found my old drivers license. Maybe I could try to get through the checkpoint for the media and have Mike or Joel scissor it up for being invalid.
So no big event on the 22nd?
OK katherine I will priority email the senators you suggested, probably will have all 24 emailed by the 9th. Just sent an LTE to the Monitor and have emailed one senator.
If the full senate vote is after the 22nd, then the 22nd should still be a timely event no problem !
Can anyone give us a sense what would be a good time to schedule a spot demonstration outside the state house? I'm thinking 11:30AM. I will put it on the calendar as such, but note that it's still tentative. I can change it if you guys have better ideas.
here is the calendar entry:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=870c251ccd31ad43c4442617f7f5fbca&topic=3381.0
i think the 22nd is still on. i hope it is! even if it doesn't affect 1582 it would have an impact on future bills that are coming down the pike against real id
I believe the 22nd is still on.
(At least we all still want it to be -- and we're the ones putting it together :)
-K.
What would stop it?
Quote from: NH Katherine on April 02, 2006, 08:28 AM NHFT
We need people to testify at the hearing, Monday, April 10th at 1:00 PM.
I will
definitely be at the hearing.
I do plan to testify.
Let's get this sucker passed so the rally will be a victory celebration!! :D
P.S. Katherine, it is great to see NH native freedom-lovers hooking up with NHFree! Woo-hooo!
Is there some way to post a PDF file on here?
I have flyers for everyone to print out.
-Katherine
If you send it to me, I can get it up someplace where people can grab it. Is it on nhcaspian?
Flyer:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=1
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=2
I get this message when I click those links:
Error
You can not download files
Go back
Return to home page
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on April 03, 2006, 08:54 PM NHFT
I get this message when I click those links:
Error
You can not download files
Go back
Return to home page
me too
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on April 03, 2006, 08:54 PM NHFT
I get this message when I click those links:
Error
You can not download files
Go back
Return to home page
For the record, I get the same error.
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on April 03, 2006, 08:54 PM NHFT
I get this message when I click those links:
Error
You can not download files
Go back
Return to home page
I got the error, but being a geek guessed why.
I went to the wiki page, logged in, and tried it again. It works if you're logged in to the wiki.
Wiki:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php (http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php)
The lesson is.....
.... you have to stay eternally plugged into the matrix in order to have access.
.... or it pays to have friends like Ron to help you.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 04, 2006, 10:01 AM NHFT
The lesson is.....
.... you have to stay eternally plugged into the matrix in order to have access.
.... or it pays to have friends like Ron to help you.
I think I like the second option rather better :)
How about getting the two systems to use the same authentication system? (note that I have no idea how to do so or even whether such is feasable)
Better yet, how about putting the doc somewhere where folks don't beed an extra login... like, for example, by click "Additional Options" on a post here, then clicking "Attach?" The help that comes up advertises that PDF files are allowed...
i've put this on the calendar
From NH KATHERINE:
Great news! This just in from NH State Rep. Neal Kurk:
The CATO/ACLU forum on HB 1582 is set for Thursday, April 6, at 12:30 in rooms 301-303 of the Legislative Office Building in Concord.
Its focus is on senators. I understand they're to receive personal invitations. I also understand that press will be present.
A large crowd would add luster to the occasion and show public support for the bill.
I'll say! Let's raise the roof on this one. (This would be a perfect time to do our theatrical "your papers, please" event.)
After spending about 60 hours on this project, I need to bow out now to focus on my dissertation. The ads went out today, we have flyers and yard signs, we have a website, we know who to call and where, and we know where to be and when. Now all we need are willing volunteers to bring it all together, get the phone calls made, and show the media that we care.
Talk to most of you tonight in the 8:00 PM conference call.
In freedom,
Katherine
(p.s. Sorry for sending from so many different email accounts. You can write to any one of them and they'll all come to me in the same in-box.)
Here are some of the highlights of what we've accomplished so far in developing resources to support HB 1582:
- The http://www.GraniteStateID.com (http://www.granitestateid.com) website is up and in the process of being edited. Bill Scannell's designer, David, did a fantastic job - it looks great! (It will be ready for public unveiling tomorrow. Please spread the word.) Thanks, Bill and crew.
- Flyers are available on the website for download. A local printer has donated 500 double-sided flyers that I picked up today. We could use more.
- Rich Tomasso, Kate Rick, and I worked together to ads in newspapers around the state today. The Senator's name was changed in each ad to reflect the appropriate district. The cost for all of these ads is around $400. We would be grateful for donations to help cover that. At present they are being paid out of my own pocket.
- Joel Winters has ordered yard signs and will be picking them up today. We need volunteers to place them in the appropriate districts around the state.
- The phone line has been set up to take messages. If someone would like to volunteer to answer these calls, they can be forwarded to any number. (Note that incoming calls to that line cost 7 cents per second, which goes on my bill.)
- We need people to generate phone calls directly. New Hampshire residents: Please go out to parks, malls, city streets, the town "transfer station" (i.e., the dump), etc. with your senator's phone number programmed into the speed dial on your cell phone. Every time you hand someone a flyer, offer to place a call to their senator. Then hand them the ringing phone and have them read the line at the bottom of the back of the flyer that says:
"Hello, my name is ___________, I live in ______ [name your town]. I do not want the federal government to control my drivers license. Please get New Hampshire out of National ID and the REAL ID act. Please vote yes on House Bill 1582."
If any of you have resources in New Hampshire that can help us, if you have media contacts that can drive or fly in, or if you could help us out financially, please contact Joel Winters, joel@nhcaspian.com.
If we work hard over the next several days, I believe we may have a shot at actually winning this one.
In freedom,
Katherine Albrecht
Got this in an e-mail, it's the news release.
BIG RALLY IN CONCORD AGAINST FEDERAL "REAL ID"
SAT., APRIL 22nd 11 AM -1 PM
HELL... NO! NOT IN THE "LIVE FREE OR DIE STATE" OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
Anti-Real ID Rally
RALLY AGAINST FEDERAL ID
Do you like dealing with the I R S and other federal agencies? Then you'll love "Real I.D." It's a Washington scheme to make you carry an expensive, Federally-imposed identification card...a card which could eventually track your every move. "Papers, please!"
Fortunately, the New Hampshire House...led by Rep. Neal Kurk of Weare...has voted to *defy* Washington and keep our state out of the Real ID system. This will save us millions of dollars and help preserve *your* privacy.
But power-hungry DC bureaucrats are not ready to let New Hampshire keep her freedoms without a fight. Their goal is to kill Representative Kurk's bill in the state senate. And they will succeed if you do not join the fight. Here's how you can help:
Come to our rally on April 22. We and privacy advocates of all political stripes will descend on the State House in Concord that day to urge our senators: Stand up to the Feds. Tell them we will not go along with their unfunded, unconstitutional Real ID mandate. The nation looks to New Hampshire for leadership on matters like these. We must not let them down.
What: Rally in favor of House Bill 1582, which would prevent New Hampshire from participating in "Real ID."
Who: NHCASPIAN (www.NHCASPIAN.org) and every group we could think of to invite.
Where: New Hampshire State House, 107 N. Main St., Concord NH
When: 11:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m. Saturday, April 22, 2006
Why: To prevent higher spending and taxation, to keep lines from getting longer at the DMV, to prevent the federal government from more easily tracking *your* activities.
How: To make our point, we plan to set up a mock Federal concentration camp and demand "papers please!" from anyone who wants to enter or leave it. Other symbols of protest may include "Real ID tattoos" on our forearms and "Real ID armbands." Bring your own symbols, creativity, and costumes if you like, but most of all bring YOU!
Flyer for the event:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=1
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-download_file.php?fileId=2
I doubt it will be practical for me to go to the forum on the 6th so I've called 4 other people and invited them to go. Probably one or two of those will.
Sorry, I think I've fixed the problem with the file download.
Was really sick yesterday :(
So it is happening on the 22nd?
Yes, it's happening on the 22nd! How come ya keep asking that? :icon_pirat:
[bit of duplicate info and thread-crossing here, but just to remind everyone...]
There are two great reasons for all of us who care about freedom in
New Hampshire to be in Concord this Thursday, April 6.
reason#1) The Senate will be debating HB1177, the bill to ban smoking
in all New Hampshire restaurants and bars, that morning. We need as
many people as possible to be present and wear an anti-ban badge, to
counteract the pro-ban people who will undoubtedly be there. If you
can possibly be in Concord that day, meet up with the NHLA crowd in
the State House cafeteria (underground in the building with the big
gold dome) at 8:30 AM. Please dress professionally. You will be asked
to hand out fliers and chat with Senators, but if you're not
comfortable doing that, don't worry about it. Just be there and wear a
badge; it will make a difference!
reason#2) At 12:30, the ACLU and the CATO institute will be holding a
discussion forum on HB1582, the bill to ban RealID in New Hampshire,
in rooms 301-303 of the Legislative Office Building. This event will
get press coverage. We want to FILL THE ROOM and
show everyone who sees the press coverage that lots of New
Hampshirites support this bill. More importantly, we want to show our
Senators we support it, as they will be having a committee hearing on
this bill on MONDAY. Once again, please dress, and plan on behaving,
professionally. Cato has already expressed "concerns" over the
prospect of a bunch of Free Staters showing up at their event. :crazy3:
If there's any way you can be in Concord this Thursday, please do so!
You can support two great causes with one trip! Hope to see you all
there.
Fuck Cato. This has much more to do with us in NH than it concerns them.
Quote from: katdillon on April 05, 2006, 06:25 AM NHFT
Was really sick yesterday :(
Hope you're feeling better, Kat! :flower:
Quote from: Friday on April 05, 2006, 07:07 AM NHFT
Yes, it's happening on the 22nd! How come ya keep asking that? :icon_pirat:
Because in the email that Dada just posted she said that
Quote
Great news! This just in from NH State Rep. Neal Kurk:
The CATO/ACLU forum on HB 1582 is set for Thursday, April 6, at 12:30 in rooms 301-303 of the Legislative Office Building in Concord.
Its focus is on senators. I understand they're to receive personal invitations. I also understand that press will be present.
A large crowd would add luster to the occasion and show public support for the bill.
I'll say! Let's raise the roof on this one. (This would be a perfect time to do our theatrical "your papers, please" event.)
Maybe she wants to set it up for both days.
CATO has concerns? Well maybe it will start getting a little too dicey for them ....... when we start a revolution! :brave:
I wonder if they would have been associated with Ghandi at events.
I'm locking this thread because it duplicates another. To discuss this issue, head to
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3348.0
Quote from: russellkanning on April 02, 2006, 07:48 PM NHFT
So is it still on for the 22nd?
I found my old drivers license. Maybe I could try to get through the checkpoint for the media and have Mike or Joel scissor it up for being invalid.
I have one of those hand held metal detectors like they use in airports. It doesn't work, but, maybe we could find a use for it as a prop.
Quote from: katdillon on April 05, 2006, 07:14 AM NHFT
Fuck Cato. This has much more to do with us in NH than it concerns them.
Cato:
"Don't Think Outside the Tank" TM
MN's Cato story:
Cato had a conference in the Twin Cities. Governor Ventura was one of the speakers.
When Jesse started talking, he said something about his pet project (the toy train from the Mall of America to downtown Minneapolis). He asked if that was something government should be doing. The MN LP chair said (loudly) NO. Jesse repeated the question, and the MN LP table shouted in unision "NO!".
The guy that was the MN LP chair at the time found out he was no longer wanted by Cato as a supporter because he was "rude" to their guest.
More on the train here:
http://riverwarren.com/Newsletter%5CWarren%20Report%202002%2003.pdf (http://riverwarren.com/Newsletter%5CWarren%20Report%202002%2003.pdf) ;D
So what kinds of stuff are we doing on the 22nd?
Cato? You mean those guys who were caught taking money from the feds to write stories favorable to them?
Quote from: russellkanning on April 05, 2006, 09:21 PM NHFT
So what kinds of stuff are we doing on the 22nd?
Let's wear Hitler mustaches and carry signs saying: "Ve vant za Real ID!"
A little reverse psychology.
Quote from: katdillon on April 05, 2006, 09:25 PM NHFT
Cato? You mean those guys who were caught taking money from the feds to write stories favorable to them?
Of course not, silly!
Obviously, this thread is about Inspector Clouseau's manservant and martial arts sparring partner.
Quote from: d_goddard on April 05, 2006, 10:41 PM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 05, 2006, 09:25 PM NHFT
Cato? You mean those guys who were caught taking money from the feds to write stories favorable to them?
Of course not, silly!
Obviously, this thread is about Inspector Clouseau's manservant and martial arts sparring partner.
Or Bruce Lee as the Green Hornet's driver and sidekick?
or OJ's house guest? >:D
Some great dude ;) wrote a letter about REAL ID in today's paper:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/REPOSITORY/604060352/1029/OPINION03
:icon_pirat:
[attachment deleted by admin]
There is also a small ad on page B8 of today's CM that is anti REAL ID. I think that this is put out by NHCASPIAN.
I will email it to Kat and see if she can post it.
Here's the original. Do you want your photo instead?
[attachment deleted by admin]
I think that the letters, e-mails, and phone calls to Senate members could really have made the difference on HB 1177. I think that a final push against Real ID could have the same effect.
I am *supposed* to be in school on Monday, but if there is a rally I think that I could miss a day. Is anyone from Keene going to Concord from whom I get a ride?
Quote from: katdillon on April 06, 2006, 02:25 PM NHFT
Here's the original. Do you want your photo instead?
Nah that original is good... :P
Or an ancient Roman historian/Censor (?)?
JM
Oh, not that I mind putting up pics for you, but are you unable to post pictures? Maybe I have the permissions set wrong?
My email to Thomas Eaton in Keene. He has not responded to my email about the smoking ban yet. How long do these guys take to reply, usually?
Thomas,
I sent you an email early this morning about the smoking ban. I was pleased to see the Senate shut it down, and not pleased to see you vote for it. I'm still interested in answers to my two questions from the my last email.
The reason for this email is to encourage you to vote *FOR* HB1582, the bill which will opt NH out of the federal "REAL ID" program.
REAL ID is an insult to privacy, state sovereignty, and Liberty. It deserves to be resisted, and I'll be proud that NH had the courage to say no to more federal control. Please vote yes on HB1582, and do share your thoughts with me on it.
Thanks for your time,
Ian Bernard
Host - "Free Talk Live"
Sent to union leader
(for publication, if you wish)
Rally Urging N.H. Senators to Defy Real ID
Dear folks at the Union Leader:
On Saturday, April 22, 11:00 a.m. - 1:00 p.m., between 50 and 300 supporters of a courageous and inspiring piece of legislation will rally at the State House in Concord. House Bill 1582 would say "no" to the Federal government's hated "Real ID" scheme and extricate New Hampshire from its privacy-killing embrace.
Real ID is an attempt to make you carry expensive, Federally-approved identification in place of your current, less-expensive driver's license. This budget-breaking card has the potential to track your movements and would place your personal info into a Fed database.
Fortunately, the N.H. House, led by Rep. Neal Kurk, has voted to *defy* Washington and keep our state out of the Real ID system. His bill would save us millions and help preserve *your* privacy. It may also result in unforeseen hardships for each of us, as Washington will surely direct retaliation our way if we don't submit.
Join us on April 22. Let our senators know that if they stand firm against the District of Coercion and in favor of HB 1582, you will stand with them. For details call ___ or head to NHfree.com
sign looks a little busy roger (if it is for a protest)
With that sign, I guess I didn't get the joke. :-\
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 06, 2006, 03:40 PM NHFT
My email to Thomas Eaton in Keene. He has not responded to my email about the smoking ban yet. How long do these guys take to reply, usually?
Senators typically don't.
Sorry, get used to it -- they're in your boat, so to speak, in that they just get more emails than can be responded to.
It's the State Reps (ie, the House) that generally do respond to emails. They have ~3,000 constituents, instead of ~60,000
The take-away here is, don't hesistate to email the Reps on the next issue. Keep your eyes open and be ready for the next Fire Brigade (or issue of any kind that gets your ire up), and write the Reps. Don't leave it until the Senate has the ball.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 05, 2006, 09:21 PM NHFT
So what kinds of stuff are we doing on the 22nd?
I don't know if we're doing anything on the 22nd. Anytime people ask about the rally, the only response they receive is a passive acknowledgement of it while everyone is focusing all their energy on passing the anti-Real ID bill. :(
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 06, 2006, 05:13 PM NHFT
the only response they receive is a passive acknowledgement of it while everyone is focusing all their energy on passing the anti-Real ID bill. :(
What's so wrong about that?
Surely it is appropriate to first focus on preserving and safeguarding our liberties, especially since the Senate is due to vote on this well before the proposed rally... right?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 06, 2006, 04:43 PM NHFT
sign looks a little busy roger (if it is for a protest)
Just messing around with the Green Hornet and Kato for nothing more than my amusement with the "Suits" approach.
If we would all dress like politicians we would already be free.
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 06, 2006, 05:42 PM NHFT
If we would all dress like politicians we would already be free.
Now yer just makin' fun of us NHLA drones ;)
Quote from: d_goddard on April 06, 2006, 06:04 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 06, 2006, 05:42 PM NHFT
If we would all dress like politicians we would already be free.
Now yer just makin' fun of us NHLA drones ;)
No, I'm happy that people are willing to do that stuff.
As for me, I used to work inside the beltway and have had too much experience with politicians, wonks etc.
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 06, 2006, 05:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 05, 2006, 09:21 PM NHFT
So what kinds of stuff are we doing on the 22nd?
I don't know if we're doing anything on the 22nd. Anytime people ask about the rally, the only response they receive is a passive acknowledgement of it while everyone is focusing all their energy on passing the anti-Real ID bill. :(
Who is in charge? What do they want to do?
Something a little more constructive.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: russellkanning on April 06, 2006, 07:54 PM NHFT
Who is in charge? What do they want to do?
Two questions I never expect to see coming from Russ Kanning's account...
Who are you, and how did you get his password?!?
;)
If you prefer a NAZI theme.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Real ID sponsor
[attachment deleted by admin]
He replied, saying he'd call me because he "types with two fingers". I wrote back:
Thomas,
Thanks for the reply. I'd heard that NH legislators
were approachable, and it's nice to know it wasn't
just a rumor.
It's probably best if I call you, as I'm on the phone
all day working on spreading my radio show around the
country. Give me a good time, a number, and you'll
hear from me.
Thanks!
Ian
I e-mailed the four undecided Senators on HB 1177 yesterday, except Green because I couldn't find an e-mail for him. I thanked Barnes for voting ITL and I asked him to vote in support of HB 1582.
I e-mailed Senators: Gallus, Johnson, and Boyce tonight. Friday/Saturday I plan to keep working down the list.
Man, that sessenbrenner dude is straight out of Nazi germany.
Three days away... the school age bill got a minority report from 10 committee members, let's hope we can ride the wave of the smoking ban and get that killed and this (1582) passed.
Maybe we should plan on doing the event on the 22nd with or without Caspian.
aries thanks for staying on top of the school bill...or at least bringing it up. I don't have any idea what's happening next with that, need to nose around and figure out what then ext event is.
Spoke with Keene Senator Thomas Eaton today. Sounds like he's leaning towards voting yes on HB1582, though he says he has not yet read it, and can't say for sure.
Roger- I really liked all those pictures!
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 07, 2006, 10:54 AM NHFT
aries thanks for staying on top of the school bill...or at least bringing it up. I don't have any idea what's happening next with that, need to nose around and figure out what then ext event is.
I'm subscribed to all the hot bills at gencourt.org, they email me whenever the status changes (usually 1 day after)
It's no problem at all. If you have a bill you want me to do a short writeup about or keep the forum posted on, just shoot me a message and I'll do it. The gencourt calendar is down, so I can't browse that looking for bad laws until it's back.
Quote from: aries on April 07, 2006, 03:04 PM NHFT
Roger- I really liked all those pictures!
Thanks :)
Any other words people can think of that would fit?
Since they got permission to stage this event, someone mentioned that maybe we should take it easy with our signs. You know how some of us underground dwellers take things too far.
I was thinking maybe a sign that says:
"I want a little less government" or
"Less Police State Please"
"I like my Drivers License with just my name, address, SSN thank you"
Quote from: russellkanning on April 07, 2006, 03:28 PM NHFT
"I like my Drivers License with just my name, address, SSN thank you"
???
I'll take mine without SSN, thanks.
Whew, you've never met Russell, huh?
"I have enough control already"
"I will take my DL and SScard and be happy"
You mean, "Fuck the State" is too harsh? :icon_pirat:
I am not sure that works in french.....but funny.
"I like my police state as it is"
Okay, this stumped babelfish... so, what does it mean?
roger your signs are getting better by the minute! I do still think they could use a little more simplicity and be easier to read at a distance, although the Privacy No More sign already accomplishes that I guess.
BTW my only sign idea thus far has been
Fed ID =
U not Free
Nhfree.com
That one is already constructed , I built it for the real id protest we had in early 05 and I will be planning to bring it.
Quote from: Evenstar on April 07, 2006, 05:49 PM NHFT
Okay, this stumped babelfish... so, what does it mean?
Lloyd is making up porn titles.
"I like my drivers license with fingerprints not retinal scan info"
Quote from: Evenstar on April 07, 2006, 05:49 PM NHFT
Okay, this stumped babelfish... so, what does it mean?
Fuck The State
So is this turning into an underground event?
Ah, now I understand better why babelfish choked. :)
"This event is not sponsered by Cato"
>:(
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: Evenstar on April 07, 2006, 07:18 PM NHFT
Ah, now I understand better why babelfish choked. :)
My friends and I used this expression all the time 30 years ago, but, knowing no french, I unly repeated what I heard, something that saounded like 'foure La Ta'. I googled the English version and pieced it together.
:'(
[attachment deleted by admin]
A Message from the boys at the CATO Institute ;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
Regular rules may not apply with this slang phrase, but from my knowledge of French the informal imperative would be.
Foute l'etat
or more formally
Foutez l'etat
Foutre is the infinitive
Tunga plans on watching it live on Google earth. :icon_pirat:
Those are good ones Roger.
Does Lynch look like Goebbels?
So,is this still happening on the 22nd?I need to know these things to plan my days of dissent :icon_pirat:
At this point many of us on this forum are planning on being there, so you will not be alone. I am not sure if Caspian is still doing anything on that day.
I like the history repeating itself sign. LOL re a little less police state please.
No WAY am I gonna miss this
also, I'm gonna bring lots of others, too. just trying to come up with some good ideas for signs/stuff to wear
Jim and Lauren will be there.
Our Signs: Say Yahvol to Real ID
We will be wearing khaki uniforms, black boots and armbands:
[attachment deleted by admin]
hehe, that'll be great Lauren.
I am getting scared that my pathetic non-Real ID is not going to stand up to the guards scrutiny.
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on April 08, 2006, 04:36 PM NHFT
Jim and Lauren will be there.
Our Signs: Say Yahvol to Real ID
Or you could use the German word http://www.dict.cc/german-english/jawohl.html (http://www.dict.cc/german-english/jawohl.html) ;D
Nah...don't change a thing
Quote from: Ron Helwig on April 08, 2006, 05:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on April 08, 2006, 04:36 PM NHFT
Jim and Lauren will be there.
Our Signs: Say Yahvol to Real ID
Or you could use the German word http://www.dict.cc/german-english/jawohl.html (http://www.dict.cc/german-english/jawohl.html) ;D
Jay Wall what kind of furin talk is that... ;D
(I learned all my German from Hogan's Heroes) ;D
The uniforms have me laughing already Lauren and Jim... ;D 8)
anyone know when the senators will be driving into the area or entering the state house?
I'm thinking of standing somehwere with my sign.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 09, 2006, 08:34 PM NHFT
anyone know when the senators will be driving into the area or entering the state house?
I'm thinking of standing somehwere with my sign.
Dog-gone Dave... he's everywhere, he's everywhere. ;D
Gonna bump your karma... someone just dinged mine ??? (who'd I piss off this time?)
Anyone know how it went?
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 10, 2006, 02:39 PM NHFT
Anyone know how it went?
I'd say it went well.
Everyone who gave testimony did an outstanding, amazing job.
About 10 people have testimony in favor; only 2 gave testimony against, and to be frank, the longer they spoke, the more credence they gave to the pro-HB1582 sentiment :)
My back-of-the-envelope notes suggest there's at least a chance this could come out of committee OTP. 6 Senators comprise the committee. Martel and Burling made no effort to disguise that they are in favor of the bill. I hear Hassan is for it. No idea about Roberge. Kenney wasn't there (I don't think), I have no idea how he'll vote. Barnes' questions suggested he's against, but I'm not sure of that either.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 09, 2006, 08:34 PM NHFT
anyone know when the senators will be driving into the area or entering the state house?
I'm thinking of standing somehwere with my sign.
Dave,
I didn't see this earlier so this is for future info. Since there are only 24 of them the Senators park in the garage attached to the LOB. I know the lower level is entered from Park St. I think the upper level is entered from Capitol St.
Dag nab it, doesn't anyone know what the committee decided?? Or did they not make a decision today?
Quote from: Friday on April 10, 2006, 07:43 PM NHFT
Dag nab it, doesn't anyone know what the committee decided?? Or did they not make a decision today?
No decision today, just hearings. I think the committee votes among themselves tomorrow.
Keep an eye on the Senate Calendar, or better yet just enable tracking for yourself on this bill over at generalcourt.org:
http://generalcourt.org/bills/2006/HB1582/tracking
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 09, 2006, 08:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 09, 2006, 08:34 PM NHFT
anyone know when the senators will be driving into the area or entering the state house?
I'm thinking of standing somehwere with my sign.
Dog-gone Dave... he's everywhere, he's everywhere. ;D
Gonna bump your karma... someone just dinged mine ??? (who'd I piss off this time?)
Yeah, mind just randomly dropped 8 points also. I think we've got trolls again.
Tracy
Mine was generously refilled (and then some). Guess I got to do something to "earn" them.
Gave ya a bump. :D
I think that the numerous "REAL ID" issues were made VERY clear to the commitee by representatives of the numerous groups!
I think that nobody (including Mr. Sweeny) made much of a case against this.
I think Mr. Sweaany gave just enough testimony to give some senators a phony "out."
I don't think Mr. Sweeny even said anything would REALy be safer . . .
I am afriad that some senators can be "bought" with federal phony money!
I think we need to start to think about what we do if some senators cave in to this federal BS. TO ME THIS IS THE BIG ISSUE!
Sen. Peter Burrling sure did not welcome me with open arms when I was on my way here, but I was sure glad to see him today! I'll bet he was sure glad to see my friends (and me) today!
We can hope. We can hope!
Quote from: John on April 10, 2006, 11:23 PM NHFT
I think we need to start to think about what we do if some senators cave in to this federal BS. TO ME THIS IS THE BIG ISSUE!
Resist, Refuse, Dissent, Disobey.
Quote from: John on April 10, 2006, 11:23 PM NHFT
I am afriad that some senators can be "bought" with federal phony money!
Sen Gatsas has a quote in today's paper that seems that way.
When the article is put online I will post it.
Look at all the groups that this article mentions:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060411/REPOSITORY/604110322/1043/NEWS01
Quote from: Dreepa on April 11, 2006, 07:11 AM NHFT
Look at all the groups that this article mentions:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060411/REPOSITORY/604110322/1043/NEWS01
God bless the Concord Monitor, that dirty, crappy, yellow-dog rag, and may god grant them the integrity to at minimum to a damned 30-second google search to verify their story one day!
* they mention "Doug Gorman of the NHLA" (it's Don Gorman)
* "dozens of men and woman" (ok, I'm a grammar nazi on the web. But I do expect newspaper editors to correct poor grammar, dammit!)
* they fail to mention that Sweeny's was the
only testimony against the bill, and that at least 1 Senator and 2 current State Reps (Vallaincourt and Kurk) testified for it, along with nearly a dozen private citizens!
Hi, first post from an angry long-time lurker.
I don't know if anyone testified about this, but aside from the state constitution, REAL ID also violates these NH laws:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/260/260-10-b.htm
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/263/263-40-a.htm
More coverage:
http://www.nhpr.org/node/10534
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Say+no+to+national+ID%2C+senate+urged&articleId=5a5fa4fe-0bba-4322-91f4-51b124fd0feb
Without Real ID, a New Hampshire family would need passports to fly to Florida, Sen. Jack Barnes, R-Raymond, pointed out.
"How do we tell a family of five that they have to spend nearly $500 on passports to go to Disneyworld?" he asked.
Nearly $500? That makes no sense. The kids in a typical Disney-bound family wouldn't be old enough to have driver licenses, federally-approved or not. I wonder if the rest of his statements were this illogical.
Quote from: Stuy Gryphon on April 11, 2006, 12:28 PM NHFT
Hi, first post from an angry long-time lurker.
Welcome, and stay angry!
Welcome.
Also a passport(today anyway) is $55. Say $8 for the pictures and that is $63 per person. I guess this Senator is not so good with math.
Quote from: Stuy Gryphon on April 11, 2006, 12:28 PM NHFT
Hi, first post from an angry long-time lurker.
Howdy, Stuy!
Quote from: Stuy Gryphon on April 11, 2006, 12:28 PM NHFT
I don't know if anyone testified about this, but aside from the state constitution, REAL ID also violates these NH laws:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/260/260-10-b.htm
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/263/263-40-a.htm
Yep.
This was covered in depth by the testimony given by Sen. Estabrook, and touched on by testimony by various other private individuals who testified.
Edit: It was Sen. Estabrook, not Fuller-Clark, that testified. My bad!
If you're a AAA Gold member, they give you free passport photos. They charge a $12 security fee to fund the electronic passport. If you are getting one for the first time, it's $30 for an in-person fee. To renew, $67 with the security fee.
I just renewed mine. I sent it to PA, it came back from Portsmouth, NH. Non-electronic till 2016!
I don't see why anyone under 16 needs a state issued ID for anything.
Quote from: Dreepa on April 11, 2006, 12:40 PM NHFT
Welcome.
Also a passport(today anyway) is $55. Say $8 for the pictures and that is $63 per person. I guess this Senator is not so good with math.
I stand corrected. They have imposed all sorts of bullshit fees since I got my renewed last year:
http://travel.state.gov/passport/get/fees/fees_837.html
$97 over 16
$82 under 16.
Also
Quote
If you do not provide your Social Security Number, the Internal Revenue Service may impose a $500 penalty. If you have any questions please call your nearest IRS office.
why the fuck do they need the SSN.. passports should have nothing to do with the IRS.
Quote from: Stuy GryphonI don't know if anyone testified about this, but aside from the state constitution, REAL ID also violates these NH laws:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/260/260-10-b.htm
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXI/263/263-40-a.htm
Quote from: d_goddardYep.
This was covered in depth by the testimony given by Sen. Fuller-Clark, and touched on by testimony by various other private individuals who testified.
That's good to know. I hope it made a difference to those senators preoccupied with the $3 million federal grant and the "inconvenience" to residents.
Quote from: Jon MaltzI don't see why anyone under 16 needs a state issued ID for anything.
I agree. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the REAL ID Act won't require minors to have ID in order to board planes. So I don't see why (as Senator Barnes insinuates) kids would need a passport to fly domestically if NH opts out of REAL ID. Maybe he thinks there are lots of families taking their adult children to Disney World. :P Whatever he was trying to claim, it's a poor excuse for going along with the destruction of privacy.
So the vote was today, right? How did the committee vote?
Quote from: Stuy Gryphon on April 11, 2006, 03:08 PM NHFT
REAL ID Act won't require minors to have ID in order to board planes.
This was also discussed in the hearing.
You don't need to provide any ID to board a plane, even now (nor under REAL-ID).
You do, however, need to agree to a "secondary search" if you have no ID.
Quote from: KBCraig on April 11, 2006, 12:38 PM NHFT
Welcome, and stay angry!
Thanks. There's plenty to keep me that way.
Quote from: d_goddard on April 11, 2006, 03:16 PM NHFT
You do, however, need to agree to a "secondary search" if you have no ID.
Even kids with no ID? This is all such a monumental mess.
So if the feds clamp down on NH residents the appropriate action is to give in to them?
I don't like to negotiate with the terrorists or tyrants.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 11, 2006, 05:24 PM NHFT
So if the feds clamp down on NH residents the appropriate action is to give in to them?
I don't like to negotiate with the terrorists or tyrants.
Funny you mention it. That sentiment was expressed by Sen. Burling at the hearing :D
I gotta get a copy of the audo record -- they record on cassette tapes -- and see about making an MP3 for Web consumption (they do record hearings, but don't publish them on the Web)
Here's an interesting article on RealID from the Caledonian Record. Posting it in this thread since it's become the definitive RealID thread:
http://www.caledonianrecord.com/pages/local_news/story/8e971fe52
QuoteThe implementation is expected to cost $2 million in the Vermont DMV alone, not counting the cost to put vital records like birth certificates going back to the 1930s on a secure database that can be shared by states and the federal government. Add more millions for that.
State officials say motorists, town clerks, doctors, funeral directors and genealogists will be affected, among others.
State laws will probably have to change, and maybe even the Vermont Constitution, says Richard McCoy, public health statistics chief with the health department and the point man for upgrading records to meet coming federal rules.
That's some good ammo to use against RealID, and for this bill too. Excellent ammo, in fact. I'd say, armor piercing.
Except that NH is a 'testing' state and the Fed are using $3M as a honey pot to sucker NH in.
Quote from: Dreepa on April 11, 2006, 08:21 PM NHFT
Except that NH is a 'testing' state and the Fed are using $3M as a honey pot to sucker NH in.
Well I think we're going to be the first state to flip the bird at the federal government and their retarded, unethical, unconstitutional laws that are unfounded mandates. The RealID system isn't even planned out well at all. They just hoisted all the implementation on the states, and all the planning on the executive branch.
Quote from: aries on April 11, 2006, 08:37 PM NHFT
Well I think we're going to be the first state to flip the bird at the federal government and their retarded, unethical, unconstitutional laws that are unfounded mandates.
:fingerscrossed:
I think that if we want this vote to go well, another round of letter writing and phone calls is imperative. I know that I've written a few senators about this issue.
We probably need to spread the word to other NH residents and ask them to do the same. It really could make a difference. Remember how close the smoking ban vote was in the senate?
Are there other organizations besides CASPIAN involved? If not, are there other organizations that spring to mind who might want to attend?
At the moment, we don't know if Caspian is involved.
hmmm ... about other ones.
I do remember, and I am going to send my reps more letters as soon as I learn about the committee decision.
It takes reps a long time to get emails, I know Gallus has an intern do all his for him, I usually don't get replies for a while.
Calls are excellent as well.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 11, 2006, 10:50 PM NHFT
I think that if we want this vote to go well, another round of letter writing and phone calls is imperative. I know that I've written a few senators about this issue.
Excellent!
BTW, there was a message from Don Gorman to members of the NHLA that I'll pass along. Paraphrasing:
If you live in
Manchester or Hooksett, please contact Senator Gatsas (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/senatemembers.html). He's your Senator, and he's the key to this whole deal. If you live anywhere in NH, it's probably not a bad idea to send a polite, respectful, short email or (even better, if you send it
this week) snail-mail to him ASAP, letting him know that you are
for HB1582.
Some suggested talking points (
please use your own words!):
- NH Law already affirms your right to privacy, by not requiring Social Security numbers or picture ID on your driver's license. We should not cede these rights to the Federal Government.
- Despite the scare tactics, reasonable folks do not believe that over 1.2 million New Hampshire residents will be unable to board planes or drive to other states. Both of these concerns were fully refuted & de-bunked at the Committee Hearing.
- The promised $3 million in Federal money is not expected to cover even the start-up computer system costs. NH Taxpayers will be left footing the rest of the bill. If the DMV needs money, let's put up a bill that does that directly, without Federal strings.
- What happens when the Federal database get botched? Who do you go to to complain about wrong information in your record? How much damage will that cause to innocent people? Surely you or someone you know has had a phony charge on a credit card at some point in their life... what happens when you need to get someone from Washington DC to correct the problem?
- While the danger may seem remote now, why set ourselves, or more likely, our children, to be taken advantage of by some future government? Surely we have learned our lessons from the history of Germany, the Netherlands, China, and other states with Real Identification of their citizens?!
Ok just send a round of emails to all the Senators.
Of course I gave them the link to my LTE in the CM:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060406/REPOSITORY/604060352/1029/OPINION03
Updated info on this issue:
"HB 1582 was not voted on today by the Public and Municipal Affairs Committee. That means that the earliest the Committee can vote on it is when it next meets, Wednesday, 4/19, and the Senate will be unable to vote on it on 4/20, and will thus be able to vote on it on 4/27 at the
earliest. The upshot of all of which is: THE APRIL 22nd RALLY MATTERS!!"
and from KatherineinNH:
I spoke to Sheila Roberge today and when I asked when the Public and Municipal Affairs committee was going to exec the bill (i.e., take a
committee vote before sending it to the full Senate) she said, "Not for several weeks." This confirms what Tim has said, that our rally event
will take place before (and have an influence on) the full Senate vote. :icon_pirat:
This seems to be spread between threads, for us folks that aren't able to keep up with you hard chargers ;)
It can be tough to know all that is going on.
Heck I thought the FIRE BRIGADE was ya'll probably talking about private fire protection ;D
Massive Protest Against National ID on April 22nd
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3348.120
The 22nd looks to be a necessity... Friday has sounded the call over on one of the other threads dealing with this issue.
Real ID bill (HB1582) hearing in senate for NOW APRIL 10TH!!!
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3312.60
Quote from: russellkanning on April 12, 2006, 06:36 AM NHFT
At the moment, we don't know if Caspian is involved.
hmmm ... about other ones.
Russell, what the hell? ???
Quote from: Michael Fisher on March 29, 2006, 10:21 PM NHFT
What: Massive Coalition Protest Against National ID
When: Saturday, April 22, from 11am-1pm.
Where: State Capitol Building, Concord
NH CASPIAN is coordinating a coalition RALLY from 11am-1pm at the State Capitol in Concord on Saturday, April 22nd.
Quote from: NH Katherine on April 03, 2006, 05:08 AM NHFT
I believe the 22nd is still on.
(At least we all still want it to be -- and we're the ones putting it together :)
-K.
Quote from: Friday on April 12, 2006, 07:24 PM NHFT
Updated info on this issue:
"HB 1582 was not voted on today by the Public and Municipal Affairs Committee. That means that the earliest the Committee can vote on it is when it next meets, Wednesday, 4/19, and the Senate will be unable to vote on it on 4/20, and will thus be able to vote on it on 4/27 at the
earliest. The upshot of all of which is: THE APRIL 22nd RALLY MATTERS!!"
and from KatherineinNH:
I spoke to Sheila Roberge today and when I asked when the Public and Municipal Affairs committee was going to exec the bill (i.e., take a
committee vote before sending it to the full Senate) she said, "Not for several weeks." This confirms what Tim has said, that our rally event
will take place before (and have an influence on) the full Senate vote. :icon_pirat:
Alright, I was kind of on the fence, but I really want to try and make it to the rally. I will just bring a sign or something, but I want to help it be as BIG as possible.
Edit- I forgot about work :(
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 11, 2006, 11:03 PM NHFT
Are there other organizations besides CASPIAN involved? If not, are there other organizations that spring to mind who might want to attend?
Yes, there are numerous other organizations involved, including
> Coalition of New Hampshire Taxpayers,
> Democracy For New Hampshire,
> NH Second Amendment Sisters,
> NH Constitution Party,
> Republican Liberty Caucus of NH,
> ProGun NH,
> Dover Citizens for Sound Government,
> Libertarian Party of New Hampshire,
> NH Citizen's Alliance,
> NH Liberty Alliance,
> NH We the People,
> The Liberty Conspiracy
and, of course, the ubiquitous Free Staters. Only we must operate as free agents, cuz the FSP isn't a POLITICAL organization, don'tchaknow. :crybaby2:
Please check out http://www.granitestateid.com for more info, as well as fliers you can print and distribute at will. If you are a member of any group that you think could get some people to the rally on the 22nd, please do so!! Tell all your friends and neighbors. You can also donate cash to help cover the expenses of the rally.
I'm following Lady Liberty into the fray, thanks for taking the lead Friday.
Sounds like a good photo op... can we get a lot of folks to fill the frame? Nice setting, good chance for national exposure.
My question to the crowd... 'are you going to the happening man?' :icon_pirat:
I went to granitestateid.com
[attachment deleted by admin]
Is there a way we can start a sign up or "we'll be there" page for the rally. Sometimes it's just difficult to get a sense for numbers through the threads. Maybe a poll question would be the best way to get raw numbers. Are you going to the RealID rally on April 22? And have people answer yes, no, or maybe.
How exactly do you create a poll on this forum?
I'm just trying to establish how many people from the forum plan on attending the rally, so that we all have a better picture in our minds of how large the rally is shaping up to be.
Just keep in mind that many people from outside the nhfree.com group may be coming, so this is a very low and tenative estimate.
I went ahead and made a poll.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Our+secret+identities%3a+NH+should+reject+REAL+ID+Act&articleId=1ad8598e-7b52-40b3-a288-379e4d39837b
Our secret identities: NH should reject REAL ID Act
THERE'S NOTHING quite like knowing that every bit of information needed to steal your identity is held in a massive government database accessible by thousands of government employees, from local police officers to state DMV workers to federal aviation officials to larcenous bureaucrats in Mexico. Welcome to America just two years from now, if the REAL ID Act is implemented.
New Hampshire legislators have a chance to at least try to halt this foolhardy amassing of personal data in the name of national security. They should take it. If states don't stand up and oppose this scheme, our very identities will be compromised.
The REAL ID Act is Washington's way of creating a national ID card. Proponents won't call it that, but that is exactly what it is. It would turn everyone's driver's license into an all-purpose identity card with enough personal data electronically packed in to replicate a person on paper.
Anyone with the proper scanner could access this information. It could be picked up electronically by corrupt government clerks and bureaucrats, but also by retail stores, which could then sell it. Identity thieves would have a field day. Steal a scanner, hook up with a pickpocket, and you've got instant access not only to a person's name, address and physical description, but also Social Security number and birth certificate information.
Had REAL ID simply mandated that states not issue drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants and people who could not prove who they were, that would have been fine. But this law ? passed as a rider to a defense appropriations bill, by the way ? goes much further than trying to make sure foreign terrorists don't get ID cards. It creates a highly vulnerable, massive government database of citizens' most sensitive personal information. New Hampshire would do well to oppose it officially, as House Bill 1582 would do.
Senators should pass the bill, as the House did, to show Washington that New Hampshire will not invite the federal government to electronically track our every move and keep our personal information in an unjustified and easily abused database.
I work on weekends and my boss has made it clear I can't take any days off without being fired.
That is good to hear. I kept getting mixed signals.
So will I be able to get into the event with my expired non-realID CA drivers license?
Here's the LTE I sent to the UL
Dear folks at the Union Leader:
On Saturday, April 22 from 11:00 a.m. to 1:00 p.m., somewhere between 50 and 300 supporters of a courageous and inspiring piece of legislation will rally outside the State House in Concord. House Bill 1582 would say "no" to the Federal government's hated "Real ID" scheme.
Real ID is an attempt to make you carry an expensive, Federally-approved identification card in place of your current, less-expensive driver's license. Costs aside, the new card has the potential to track your every move and would place your personal info into a Fed database.
Fortunately, the New Hampshire House...led by Rep. Neal Kurk of Weare...has voted to *defy* Washington and keep our state out of the Real ID system. His bill would save us millions of dollars and help preserve *your* privacy. It may also result in unforseen hardships for each of us, for Washington will surely direct some bureaucratic retaliation our way if we do not submit.
Join us on April 22. Let our senators know if they stand firm against Washington, you will stand with them. For details call 721.1490 or head to NHfree.com
Should we pick you up on the way to Concord?
Who?
I was thinking Nick .... are you going to be a wayward traveler?
Quote from: russellkanning on April 13, 2006, 07:40 AM NHFT
So will I be able to get into the event with my expired non-realID CA drivers license?
You still have that old piece of Communist-era documentation?
Save it! That piece of memorabilia is gonna be worth a lot of money some day on Ebay! ;)
Yes
Quote from: russellkanning on April 13, 2006, 07:40 AM NHFT
That is good to hear. I kept getting mixed signals.
So will I be able to get into the event with my expired non-realID CA drivers license?
Ooo! It's expired. So you forgot how to drive?! You're not Russell Kanning anymore (if that is the name on the license)?
Appears all the hard work from you folks is keeping us in the game. Just my thought, but thinking all the emails, phone call, and our presence in large numbers at the hearing on the 10th, may have some Senators reconsidering their positions.
Agree that a large turn out at the demonstration again matters. :)
He's decided to change his name to Harry Tuttle.
It sounds like the polititians are not going to decide our fates until after the 22nd ..... so more people will show up now.
Doesn't it seem funny begging the NH legislature to stop the feds?
Quote from: russellkanning on April 13, 2006, 08:22 PM NHFT
Doesn't it seem funny begging the NH legislature to stop the feds?
Not at all. From what I gather, the New Hampshire government has a long tradition of telling the Feds to go stuff themselves.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 13, 2006, 08:22 PM NHFT
It sounds like the polititians are not going to decide our fates until after the 22nd ..... so more people will show up now.
Yep. Now it's ON! We're getting some pretty strange concepts coming out of this coalition, but the best IMO are:
-Handing a $3,000,000 check back to someone dressed in an old East German or Russian military uniform. $100-150 cost on eBay, or someone from a gun group may have access to a uniform. They seem to have this type of uniform available at gun shows for some reason.
-Someone sent us several hand-powered paper shredders. We want to copy what they did and put stickers on them that say "REAL ID Processing Unit". We'll shred some fake "REAL ID" application papers.
-A REAL ID / National ID "Papers Please" checkpoint with raisable barricade gates, uniforms, etc.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 13, 2006, 08:22 PM NHFT
Doesn't it seem funny begging the NH legislature to stop the feds?
"Funny" as in completely absurd? Yes. Witnessing the details of today's events proved for me yet again how evil government is -- even the New Hampshire State government. The State House is filled with greed, filth, lies, betrayal, and hypocrisy, while it is completely void of anything resembling wisdom of the history of liberty. Nothing ever changes.
I may burn my SSN at the event, but I'll need to find a way to cover up the actual SS number from the national TV cameras. :-\
Russell,
thanks for offering. I may have some friend going to the rally with whom I can get a ride. I should know by this weekend and I'll send you a private message either way.
Hey maybe a new poll should be "will you be open-carrying a firearm at the rally?"
It is completely absurd. But given the alternative, I'd say it's a good thing. It's better for governments to compete and gridlock each other then for them to cooporate. And I'd much rather have a small bully like NH protecting us from a Big Bully like the Federal Maffia, instead of the other way around.
If this goes down, it's a stepping stone to complete NH Secession.
An it'll be a lot easier for Keene or any other city/town/county to secede from NH and be independent. Or perhaps even evolve into out-right anarchy in some parts of the place that's now known as New Hampshire.
So as ridiculous as it sounds, I still think this bill is a total step in the right direction.
Tracy
Cool, Mike. You could just sharpie over the number. Want us to bring a burning bucket, etc?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 13, 2006, 11:52 PM NHFT
Hey maybe a new poll should be "will you be open-carrying a firearm at the rally?"
"Very openly" ought to be an option. ;)
If anything happens, I want to see pics!
There will be two different porcs filming, Roger and the crew from NY.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 12, 2006, 09:59 PM NHFT
I'm just trying to establish how many people from the forum plan on attending the rally, so that we all have a better picture in our minds of how large the rally is shaping up to be.
Just keep in mind that many people from outside the nhfree.com group may be coming, so this is a very low and tenative estimate.
citizen, just to clarify, this is not a "NHFree Production". NHCASPIAN got the rally permit. Hundreds of dollars were donated to place ads in various NH newspapers. Volunteers from the Merrimack Valley Porcupines and the Concord Porcupines placed signs in various towns. The elusive kater wrote a press release. This event is being heavily promoted amongst all sorts of groups, in addition to this one: Democrats, Republicans, voter fraud, Christians-who-fear-the-Number-of-the-Beast.... Expected turnout is in the hundreds!
There are still lots of opportunities to help out, if you're interested. :fingerscrossed:
Quote from: d_goddard on April 13, 2006, 09:31 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 13, 2006, 08:22 PM NHFT
Doesn't it seem funny begging the NH legislature to stop the feds?
Not at all. From what I gather, the New Hampshire government has a long tradition of telling the Feds to go stuff themselves.
It just seems like there should have to be legislation passed to go along with the feds ...... not legislation needed to oppose them.
Who do you talk to in order to help out?
This cannot be a NH Underground event ..... we never get permits. :)
Contact Joel, or Jenn, or Michael, or me, or just post it here. :)
Here are some ways you can help:
- do you own a podium, or know someone who does? Can you build one?
- can you get balloons made, or at least buy some helium balloons the day of the event?
- do you know any of those people who enjoy dressing up like Revolutionary War guys and/or patriotic figures, and ask them to attend?
- tell everyone you know, talk about it in the KFP
- contact all your media contacts
- volunteer to dress up like a Homeland Security thug and be defeated by the forces of freedom ;D
- donate cash to help cover expenses
- help me make hundreds of pins; I can email you the graphic, and you can pick up supplies at your local Office Depot
- make other suggestions as to how we can make this a big, publicity-grabbing, Senator-irritating event
There's going to be an organizational conference call on Tuesday. If you'd like the number, let me know.
Thanks for the update. :)
Sounds like this could be the event of the season. :icon_pirat:
Quote from: Friday on April 14, 2006, 07:34 AM NHFT
Senator-irritating event
Friday,
Please, please take that back. Publicly.
Like it or not, the 24 Senators of the State of New Hampshire are the ones who will allow HB1582 to proceed, or not.
Like it or not,
pissing people off is not a good way to get them to go along with you -- even if they fundamentally agree with you!
A major reason there is no smoking ban in New Hampshire today is because the pro-ban folks pissed off the Senators.For proof, just listen to this (http://freestateblogs.net/files/images/1177_Johnson.mp3).
IF YOU WANT TO ENSURE WE ARE NEVER FREE, IRRITATE PEOPLE.If you want to make a real positive difference, if you want New Hampshire to be the Freest State, help make the case for NH1582 - firmly, graphically, publicly, but with humor and
respect.
P.S. I know Friday would not intentionally be rude, the above ranting is for those who may misread her comment in a way other than it was surely intended.
It should be fun to see all the people in different outfits.
I will be a reporter without the proper "papers". I don't expect very good treatment at the hands of the Homeland Security thugs.
here are a couple other ideas:
yellow armbands with a star of david and the words Real ID
tatooing your forearm with the word real ID and maybe a number
maybe something like Real ID 980 or Real ID 666
On my end I'm just planning to carry my sign that says
Real ID =
U Not Free
NHfree.com
...and will probably wear a suit and a pistol (but i guess that means I can't wear the jacket part of the suit or no one could see the pistol!
That's the plan anyway, always open to suggestions. I'm not planning on making the armbands myself.
I'm in the process of recreating my alter ego Lt. Roger Wilco
National ID
Less Police State Please
[attachment deleted by admin]
Just heard Dave spreading the word about the rally on April 22nd on Gardner's Radio show.
Yeah Dave! ;D
Yeah, the pics from this event should be posted to the FSP website. This would be a great recruiting tool. Also, what a great opportunity this would be to network with the other anti-real ID groups. And, whomever is going to be the LP candidate for governor this year should definitely consider this a key campaign stop.
Not that we should do this or anything, but what if we irritated the senators about passing it? >:D
Probably a bad idea, in case they decided to agree.
This committee is meeting on 4/19 at 9 for public hearing on a few bills. The schedule ends at 9:40 and then it says "executive session may follow" (as per most recent Senate calendar). In this exec session, they can make their recommendations on any bills that they have already had public hearings on. This will be held in room 103 of the state house. But any input given to the senators prior to this 4/19 meeting might help them make the recommendation that you're looking for.
Quote from: dawn on April 14, 2006, 03:09 PM NHFT
any input given to the senators prior to this 4/19 meeting might help them make the recommendation that you're looking for.
The Senators on the committee relevant to Real-ID are listed at:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/billstatus/commdetails.asp?txtcommcode=S27
Focus on them, especially the 4 (r)'s
The Dems on the committee are already lined up behind HB1582; the (r)'s will have pressure from above not to do anything that might fail to "give the Federal Government the tools needed to fight the war on terror"
Quote from: d_goddard on April 14, 2006, 08:00 AM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on April 14, 2006, 07:34 AM NHFT
Senator-irritating event
Friday,
Please, please take that back. Publicly.
Like it or not, the 24 Senators of the State of New Hampshire are the ones who will allow HB1582 to proceed, or not.
Like it or not, pissing people off is not a good way to get them to go along with you -- even if they fundamentally agree with you!
A major reason there is no smoking ban in New Hampshire today is because the pro-ban folks pissed off the Senators.
For proof, just listen to this (http://freestateblogs.net/files/images/1177_Johnson.mp3).
IF YOU WANT TO ENSURE WE ARE NEVER FREE, IRRITATE PEOPLE.
If you want to make a real positive difference, if you want New Hampshire to be the Freest State, help make the case for NH1582 - firmly, graphically, publicly, but with humor and respect.
P.S. I know Friday would not intentionally be rude, the above ranting is for those who may misread her comment in a way other than it was surely intended.
Denis,
#1) Please don't tell me what to do. Ever.
#2) You misinterpreted my statement. I said absolutely nothing about being rude to Senators. I have heard from the head of a Democratic group working on this issue that the Senators already ARE irritated because we are shining the bright light of publicity on their potentially craven act of giving in on this issue over a measly $3 million. And that's exactly as it should be (shining a bright light on our legislators, that is). The Founding Fathers agreed with me on that one.
#3) I find your posting the audio of the Smoking Ban Senate vote at me a little lame, Denis. You know damned well I was sitting right beside you and heard it the same time you did.
Quote from: Friday on April 14, 2006, 06:01 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on April 14, 2006, 08:00 AM NHFT
P.S. I know Friday would not intentionally be rude, the above ranting is for those who may misread her comment in a way other than it was surely intended.
Denis,
#1) Please don't tell me what to do. Ever.
So fucking cool! You rock. I hope that I can do something to get you to say something like that to me. I love honest people.
Wow .... politics is rough.
I attended the Senate sessions all day from the morning until about 3:30pm when HB203 was killed. This is an ACTUAL quote I heard NH Senator L'Etourneau say on Thursday while discussing a bill:
"When National ID passes..."
You don't want to know what ?tourneau translates to in English... ;)
Quote from: katdillon on April 14, 2006, 05:31 AM NHFT
Cool, Mike. You could just sharpie over the number. Want us to bring a burning bucket, etc?
Sounds great! Thanks! :)
Quote from: Dreepa on April 14, 2006, 01:00 PM NHFT
Just heard Dave spreading the word about the rally on April 22nd on Gardner's Radio show.
Yeah Dave! ;D
Dave is the best!
I wrote to Thomas Eaton, a republican, and asked him to uphold the NH GOP's traditional commitment to freedom. I think that the republican senators can be brought to vote in favor of HB 1582, it just helps to shade your comments in a light that they will find favorable.
I tried to talk about America's "heritage of freedom", and emphasize that RealID was repugnant to the principals of limited government.
I guess my strategy was to talk like a freedom lover, but a Republican freedom lover.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 14, 2006, 10:26 PM NHFT
I guess my strategy was to talk like a freedom lover, but a Republican freedom lover.
When it comes to the House, that may work.
With Senators, you need to be an orange-badger (my term for the lobbyists) with a large blank check in your hand in order to have any real chance of creating change.
That's why government is bleh.
Man, I wish I could be there. This sounds like a great event to capture on video. I hope Roger will be busy busy. ;D
Quote from: TN-FSP on April 14, 2006, 06:15 PM NHFT
I hope that I can do something to get you to say something like that to me. I love honest people.
First things first, grasshopper. You still need to rent Kill Bill (both volumes) and Spirited Away to understand my avatar references. ;D
I got a nice not back from Senator Larsen who expressed concern about Real ID and invited me to email her again with more info; but she did not pledge to vote one way or another. Here is the note I sent back, with Mike Fisher's ideas in mind:
---
Thanks Senator!
I'd actually like to know if there is anything I can do to help *you,* at least in terms of information. I understand Senators are always understaffed and overwhelmed, so feel free to delegate to me any information hunting you may want done on this issue.
I went to the hearing you refer to; it was standing-room-only, overwhelmingly pro-1582. I've never seen local liberals/libertarians/conservatives come together so harmoniously.
The only arguments I heard *against* the bill were references to federal threats or bribes (i.e. the threat to make us put disclaimers on our DL's and the totally insufficient 3 million dollar grant).
The good news is that - like Gandhi - we win either way, so long as we don't back down. If we pass 1582 and the feds back off, we win right away and the whole nation may then step back from the cliff. If we pass it and they punish us, the publicity will rally some portion of the nation to our cause. Our good reputation among average people and nationwide sympathy for our suffering, if any, will carry us through.
But if we waver God save us.
There will be a fairly big rally on the 22nd at the State House to show our support for the pro-1582 Senators and shine the spotlight. Consider yourself invited!
Details:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?PHPSESSID=4c9ffb1b741204ba771a70094ee25d0a&topic=3348.0
Dave Ridley
NHfree.com
Keene
721-1490
Damn! I thought your avatar was 'Friday' from the cover of the book of the same name.
The best counter-argument I can come up with against the "loss of our $3,000,000 grant" argument is this:
"So what you're saying is, you know that refusing to cooperate with National ID is the right thing to do, but you're too much of a coward to do it?"
Or, too cheap
Economic arguments in favor of federal funding never point out the money spent to get the money. States and cities almost always have to spend more than the grant amount, producing a net loss.
It is, Lloyd!! But I have different avatars on MySpace. You should get on there. Don't worry about being the oldest guy there; Charles Darwin is on my Friends list and he's gotta be, like, 160!! :o
I am sorry.
I truly hope you will accept my apology.
Quote from: Friday on April 14, 2006, 06:01 PM NHFT
#1) Please don't tell me what to do. Ever.
I feel a bit like Malcolm Reynolds is giving me a scolding. Ouch! Not a good place to be.
Quote from: Friday on April 14, 2006, 06:01 PM NHFT
#2) You misinterpreted my statement. I said absolutely nothing about being rude to Senators.
I understand. In my defence, I did state explicitly that you were not advocating rudeness, nor that you ever would.
Quote from: Friday on April 14, 2006, 06:01 PM NHFT
#3) I find your posting the audio of the Smoking Ban Senate vote at me a little lame
The entire post, and the linked-to audio, was intended for hypothetical people who
might be taken up with the spirit of the protest, and, being in high spirits, might do or say something that would, when viewed later, have crossed the line to disrespect of the opposing side (especially the Senators in question), thereby unintentionally effecting the opposite of the intended result of the protest itself. You were not the intended audience of my pontificating. No specific person was.
Hoping for peace some day, despite my blunders...
:fingerscrossed:
Forget it Denis .... she is going to throw you in the clink along with me on the 22nd. I have a bad feeling about this event. There are going to be way to many jackbooted thugs there.
probably not a bad idea for ALL of us to read the bill in case we are asked whether we've read it. fortunately it's short.
-----
STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
In the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Six
AN ACT prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national identification card system.
Be it Enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court convened:
1 Prohibition Against Participation in National Identification System. The general court finds that the public policy established by Congress in the Real ID Act of 2005, Public Law 109-13, is contrary and repugnant to Articles 1 through 10 of the New Hampshire constitution as well as Amendments 4 though 10 of the Constitution for the United States of America. Therefore, the state of New Hampshire shall not participate in a national identification card system; nor shall the department of safety amend the procedures for applying for a driver?s license under RSA 263 or an identification card under RSA 260:21.
2 Effective Date. This act shall take effect 60 days after its passage.
Short and pretty simple
And here is the relevant part of Public Law 109-13:
Section 202. Minimum Document Requirements and Issuance Standards for Federal RecognitionBeginning 3 years after enactment, prohibits a Federal agency from accepting, for any official purpose, a State-issued driver's license or identification card unless the State is issuing driver's licenses and identification cards that conform to the standards specified in the new law.
-These standards require a State to include, at a minimum, the following information and features on each driver's license and identification card issued to a person by the State:
--The person's full legal name;
--The person's date of birth;
--The person's gender;
--The person's driver's license or identification card number;
--A digital photograph of the person;
--The person's address of principle residence;
--The person's signature;
--Physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes; and,
--A common machine-readable technology, with defined minimum data elements.
-States must certify their compliance with the new standards to the Secretary of Homeland Security. The Secretary of Homeland Security, in consultation with the Secretary of the Transportation, may prescribe regulations establishing the time and manner of the certifications.
-States must require, at a minimum, presentation and verification of the following information before issuing a driver's license or identification card: 1) a photo identity document, or other identity document if it includes both the person's full legal name and date of birth; 2) documentation showing the person's date of birth; 3) proof of the person's SSN or verification that the person is not eligible for an SSN; and, 4) documentation showing the person's name and address of principle residence.
-States must require evidence of lawful immigration status before issuing a driver's license or identification card to a person. A State may issue a temporary driver's license or identification card to noncitizens who are temporarily present in the United States.
-States are required to verify, with the issuing agency, each document required to be presented by the person to obtain a driver's license or identification card.
-States must confirm with SSA the full Social Security account number presented by a person to obtain a driver's license or identification card. In the event that a Social Security account number belongs to another person to whom any State has issued a driver's license or identification card, the State must resolve the discrepancy and take appropriate action.
Not for me thanks
Quote from: russellkanning on April 15, 2006, 03:22 PM NHFT
Forget it Denis .... she is going to throw you in the clink along with me on the 22nd.
That sounds fun. Let's stage a dramatic escape ;)
Quote from: russellkanning on April 15, 2006, 03:22 PM NHFT
I have a bad feeling about this event. There are going to be way to many jackbooted thugs there.
I hear there's a cop named "Grant", ya gotta watch out for him... they say he'll show no mercy!
Quote from: Friday on April 15, 2006, 09:20 AM NHFT
Quote from: TN-FSP on April 14, 2006, 06:15 PM NHFT
I hope that I can do something to get you to say something like that to me. I love honest people.
First things first, grasshopper. You still need to rent Kill Bill (both volumes) and Spirited Away to understand my avatar references. ;D
Kill Bill I and II are in my blockbuster.com quere and I should watch them by the end of May. Please bring Spirited Away to Porcfest so I can watch it with you and you can educate me about it (or not, I am not trying to tell you what to do, yet) ;D
Quote from: d_goddard on April 15, 2006, 05:36 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 15, 2006, 03:22 PM NHFT
Forget it Denis .... she is going to throw you in the clink along with me on the 22nd.
That sounds fun. Let's stage a dramatic escape ;)
Maybe Batman can come and save us.
"The States must require..."
"The States must confirm..."
Dang! The salaries of the new state employees doing the requiring and confirming alone would be over $3M.
Merged three topics on this subject.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 07, 2006, 09:02 PM NHFT
Quote from: Evenstar on April 07, 2006, 07:18 PM NHFT
Ah, now I understand better why babelfish choked. :)
My friends and I used this expression all the time 30 years ago, but, knowing no french, I unly repeated what I heard, something that saounded like 'foure La Ta'. I googled the English version and pieced it together.
Baise L'Etat (this is the current version of "fuck" in French; the things you learn when trying to speak with your mother-in-law and mispronouncing things.... :-[ )
Oh, I just talked to my Mom....the talk show guy she listens to in TX interviews Katherine Albrecht often, and talks about her book. She said she had heard all about this rally, and this talk show guy was planning on attending. I guess if people are coming all the way from TX, it's going to be a big rally.
Quote from: d_goddard on April 15, 2006, 01:32 PM NHFT
I am sorry.
No, *I* am sorry for being so mouthy to you. I failed to follow Varrin's Law: wait at least 24 hours before responding to a post that ticks you off. :P
Quote from: TN-FSP on April 15, 2006, 05:59 PM NHFT
Please bring Spirited Away to Porcfest so I can watch it with you and you can educate me about it (or not, I am not trying to tell you what to do, yet) ;D
You do know it's a kids movie, right? It's a beautiful, whimsical kids movie by Miyozaki, whom many consider to be the greatest animator alive. I don't know if you're into that sort of thing. I still watch kids movies and read kids books; but then, I am immature. :icon_jokercolor:
Quote from: katdillon on April 16, 2006, 06:30 AM NHFT
Merged three topics on this subject.
Thank you!! I just read through the whole merged thread and realize that I was missing some background on certain posts (specifically, why Russell kept wondering if the rally was cancelled).
Quote from: katdillon on April 16, 2006, 07:52 AM NHFT
Oh, I just talked to my Mom....the talk show guy she listens to in TX interviews Katherine Albrecht often, and talks about her book. She said she had heard all about this rally, and this talk show guy was planning on attending. I guess if people are coming all the way from TX, it's going to be a big rally.
Is this the "Number of the Beast" guy? Is your Mom very religious?
Quote from: Friday on April 16, 2006, 08:07 AM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 16, 2006, 07:52 AM NHFT
Oh, I just talked to my Mom....the talk show guy she listens to in TX interviews Katherine Albrecht often, and talks about her book. She said she had heard all about this rally, and this talk show guy was planning on attending. I guess if people are coming all the way from TX, it's going to be a big rally.
Is this the "Number of the Beast" guy? Is your Mom very religious?
Probably. Yes, she's very religious.
Re: spirited away - I liked that one. The other day Kira got one from netflix that said it was for 2-4 year olds, but it turned out to be good. It was "My Neighbor Totoro". Kira was speculating that Japanese children were more sophisticated than American kids, if that was for 2-4 year olds.
Have you seen Kiki's Delivery Service or Castle in the Sky? We liked both of those.
Roger, how would you feel about potentially having one of your designs get national press coverage? :icon_pirat:
I'm getting a banner made that will be visible on stage, behind the podium. It needs to say something really clear like "NH Out of RealID", "NH Against National ID", etc. But the cost is the same whether it's pure text or has pictures in it. I was thinking of putting one of your designs either before or after the text. Of the designs you've posted so far, I prefer the Uncle Sam one. Or if you want to experiment with what you can come up with in dimensions of 2x8, feel free. Or if this is not OK with you, let me know.
Quote from: katdillon on April 16, 2006, 09:52 AM NHFT
Re: spirited away - I liked that one. The other day Kira got one from netflix that said it was for 2-4 year olds, but it turned out to be good. It was "My Neighbor Totoro". Kira was speculating that Japanese children were more sophisticated than American kids, if that was for 2-4 year olds.
Have you seen Kiki's Delivery Service or Castle in the Sky? We liked both of those.
Requesting this be bumped over to:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3511.0
Quote from: Friday on April 16, 2006, 11:04 AM NHFT
Roger, how would you feel about potentially having one of your designs get national press coverage? :icon_pirat:
I'm getting a banner made that will be visible on stage, behind the podium. It needs to say something really clear like "NH Out of RealID", "NH Against National ID", etc. But the cost is the same whether it's pure text or has pictures in it. I was thinking of putting one of your designs either before or after the text. Of the designs you've posted so far, I prefer the Uncle Sam one. Or if you want to experiment with what you can come up with in dimensions of 2x8, feel free. Or if this is not OK with you, let me know.
Your wish is my command. :)
Feedback welcome.
(Altered the Uncle Sam part for grammar)
[attachment deleted by admin]
I love it!! Let me just run it by Joel et al. Thanks!
FYI, my "Welcome to the Machine" sign sits in a place of honor in my living room. :bow:
Would it be a hassle for you to turn it into a .pdf file?
Quote from: russellkanning on April 15, 2006, 08:51 PM NHFT
Maybe Batman can come and save us.
(http://www.dccomics.com/media/covers/5189_80x120.jpg) (http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=5189)
-
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: Friday on April 16, 2006, 01:48 PM NHFT
Would it be a hassle for you to turn it into a .pdf file?
Yes a .pdf is no problem. It works out to be 3.7 meg as a high quality jpg.
Look the design over and make sure there aren't any modifications. In addition we can put small text on it if you want.
When we know it is the final just PM me an e-mail address to send it to.
Quote from: Friday on April 16, 2006, 01:45 PM NHFT
I love it!! Let me just run it by Joel et al. Thanks!
FYI, my "Welcome to the Machine" sign sits in a place of honor in my living room. :bow:
Hey, your Lady Liberty was a highlight of the SS Card Burn.
I can't claim more than channeling from Pink Floyd's lyrics.
Could you cram the URL www.granitestateid.com in there somewhere? Maybe in little text along the bottom? If it gets too crowded, I guess we could lose the "Live Free or Die", although I'd prefer not to.
Sweet banner
Quote from: Friday on April 16, 2006, 03:06 PM NHFT
Could you cram the URL www.granitestateid.com in there somewhere? Maybe in little text along the bottom? If it gets too crowded, I guess we could lose the "Live Free or Die", although I'd prefer not to.
[attachment deleted by admin]
It's bee-yoo-tiful. :love4: Thanks!!
At snazzy press conferences the backdrop has a pattern of small faint messages across the whole thing.
Then when the cameras zoom in on a speaker the background has the message in it somewhere.
From The Salem Obsever (weekly) April 13
To the Editor:
I have never written to this paper before and if I've ever contacted Sen. Morse it was only once before. But, today New Hampshire has a big problem and needs your help.
The federal "Real ID Act" threatens to do several things to New Hampshire. It would put a multi-million dollar burden on New Hampshire drivers, put us all at greater risk of identity theft, and harm our hard-won rights to privacy.
The House of Representatives has overwhelmingly passed HB1582, which would keep us out of this monstrosity. The bill now moves to the Senate.
While the federal government promises a small amount of seed money to sucker us in - and I think we all know how that works - that money does not even cover the start up costs. More important is the fact that the harm done to our privacy will never go away.
If we allow this federal intrusion into New Hampshire, our children and grandchildren will still be paying for it.
In speaking with Sen. Morse, it is clear that he values our input. Please contact Sen. Chuck Morse today at ###-#### and politely ask that he please vote YES on HB1582.
John Connell
Salem
Excellent letter, John!
Kevin
It looks like we need as many people as possible to come as jack-booted thugs, police, military types, nazi etc.
Joel has a guard shack and wire going, but he needs "officials" asking for papers.
Merged a 4th thread on this subject into this one.
the version of the press release presented on our website has no phone numbers for media to call.
can someone post a version of the release that has contact info on it so i can start sending it out a bit? also if you could pm me and direct me to the updated release, that would help
It has a link to their website.
It's here, Dave:
http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=92&Itemid=36
Hey I will have an extra storm trooper costume at the event.
It will include a helmet, wrap around shades and paramilitary/battledress style top size Large - Regular with "Less Police State Please" graphic on back. All in lovely tactical black. You would need to provide your own black pants and black boots.
Name tag: Sgt. Bilko (mine says Lt. Wilco... as in Roger Wilco)
of the POLITE (we say please and thank you)
TO PROTECT AND SERVE DONUTS (on one shoulder)
Anyone interested? ;D
Here is what they looked like in there previous use... I'll be attaching the "Less Police State Please" graphic soon.
[attachment deleted by admin]
That sure is tempting.
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on April 16, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
At snazzy press conferences the backdrop has a pattern of small faint messages across the whole thing.
Then when the cameras zoom in on a speaker the background has the message in it somewhere.
Kind of what I had in mind last year when customizing my (faded yellow) Gadsen with the (green) NHfree.com . . .(8X) ;D
I sometimes use NHfree.com in more than one place on t-shirts...
Caleb might want to join the thug brigade. He is working on a pledge with some alternate wording.
What about the HONEST car stickers and jack-booted thug uniforms:
TO SERVE AND PROTECT...
...THE STATE.
:o Good one.
I've been far too busy to contact the editorial boards of the various papers. The Nashua Telegraph is just going to oppose us anyways. Read the major slant of their "partial" article about our press conference which essentially referred to us as a coalition of extremists and special interest groups from around the political spectrum. ::)
In order to get the event editorialized, we need to hold meetings with the editorial boards of the Concord Monitor, Seacoast Newspapers, Keene Free Press, and some moderate individuals representing the left and right in those areas. That is, unless these papers have already editorialized about Real ID recently.
Please coordinate with me and I'll get you on the Real ID rally mailing list if you'd like to work on this.
I'm printing a letter about it in the upcoming issue, plus the ad you guys did.
Woohoo! 8)
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 18, 2006, 07:12 AM NHFTreferred to us as a coalition of extremists and special interest groups from around the political spectrum. ::)
I think we are extremists and we are special interest groups. That just isn't bad.
We could maybe coordinate the SW NH convoy.
Lets see....
Captain Liberty
Sgt Wilco and batman
Kat, Kira and me
Lloyd
Nick
2 nazi pretenders
Actually, we ALSO need people dressed up in revolution-era uniforms to be the resisters / victims. :)
Phoning all the Senators seemed to help with the Smoking Ban, so I'm pinging them now about 1582.
I just spoke to Senator Barnes on his home phone (http://generalcourt.org/index.php?option=com_legidex&func=rep&id=6913).
He said (convincingly) that he has not made up his mind about HB1582 yet.
The best pro-1582 arguments for him seemed to be:
a) the Feds have tried to use money to coerce NH before, for example, with Highway funds, the Metric system, etc. They have no right to do so.
b) The Federal legsilation was tacked on as a rider to a "must-pass" unrelated bill. It did not follow the democratic process appropriate to the nature of the bill
The most convincing arguments AGAINST 1582 relate to "national security".
He's an (R) and needs to be convinced, REAL-ID will *definitely* hugely impact our lives, and is at *best* a small improvement on Security.
Note: he already knew the 9-11 terrorists had valid ID. He needs to be convinced that terrorists would get "valid" ID, even with all of the extra hoops introduced by REAL-ID.
The rally conference call is now on. If you're invited, call in!
There are concerns about the GraniteStateID logo:
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1828)
Can someone please replace the eagle in the logo with a vulture like this?
(http://www.whitehouse.org/images/hseal.gif)
;D
I need help organizing a meeting with the Concord Monitor's editorial board.
Is anyone here in Concord that would like to help?
All we need to do is schedule a meeting with their editorial board and bring together one of us (extremely anti-National ID) as well as someone from the left and right.
We won't be there on 4/22 (prior plans) but I did talk to Senator Eaton who told me he has received some type of communication from Judd Gregg asking for support of national ID.
I think all of the Republicans will start getting "the call".
Who has "concerns" about using the presidential seal?
Quote from: d_goddard on April 18, 2006, 07:07 PM NHFT
Note: he already knew the 9-11 terrorists had valid ID. He needs to be convinced that terrorists would get "valid" ID, even with all of the extra hoops introduced by REAL-ID.
Money can get anyone an id.
We need Democrats and Republicans to attend this aswell. It would make it a lot harder for the senators to dismiss the protest as a bunch of "crazy anarchists". Signs that read "A Republican against National ID" or "A Democrat for HB 1582" could go a long way towards influencing the senators, and the media always seems to cast a glowing light on "nonpartisan" coalitions.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 18, 2006, 10:28 PM NHFT
We need Democrats and Republicans to attend this aswell. It would make it a lot harder for the senators to dismiss the protest as a bunch of "crazy anarchists". Signs that read "A Republican against National ID" or "A Democrat for HB 1582" could go a long way towards influencing the senators, and the media always seems to cast a glowing light on "nonpartisan" coalitions.
We're trying to get speakers from around the political spectrum. For now, it seems like we might have an excess of the right's perspective unless our new speakers come through.
BTW, we're going to take special care of the press this time. I'll be preparing and handing out full press kits, which is akin to handing a reporter's article to them on a silver platter, with the result that minimal effort will be required to complete their articles about our event.
Katherine Albrecht will be dealing with all video press and other reporters when she's not speaking (her speech is only 10 minutes). She is the resident expert at dealing with the press, especially video press, so leaving this task up to her is our best chance at good coverage.
If anyone's planning a publicity stunt, please let me know the details so I can add all of it to the press kit while preparing Katherine so she can educate reporters about it as well.
Quote from: dawn on April 18, 2006, 08:31 PM NHFT
Senator Eaton who told me he has received some type of communication from Judd Gregg asking for support of national ID.
Barnes said the same thing. ???
Quote from: Dreepa on April 18, 2006, 09:09 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on April 18, 2006, 07:07 PM NHFT
Note: he already knew the 9-11 terrorists had valid ID. He needs to be convinced that terrorists would get "valid" ID, even with all of the extra hoops introduced by REAL-ID.
Money can get anyone an id.
Amen! But yer preachin' to the coir...
If you haven't already, please tell it to the (R) Senators ;)
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 18, 2006, 10:28 PM NHFT
Signs that read "A Republican against National ID"
That would be
awesome!!!
Quote from: Dreepa on April 18, 2006, 09:09 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on April 18, 2006, 07:07 PM NHFT
Note: he already knew the 9-11 terrorists had valid ID. He needs to be convinced that terrorists would get "valid" ID, even with all of the extra hoops introduced by REAL-ID.
Money can get anyone an id.
....even better .... the US government can supply their "terrorists" with ID.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 18, 2006, 07:35 AM NHFT
We could maybe coordinate the SW NH convoy.
Lets see....
Captain Liberty
Sgt Wilco and batman
Kat, Kira and me
Lloyd
Nick
2 nazi pretenders
I think Nick needs a ride to Concord on Saturday.
Our car is full with Kat, Kira, me and Lloyd.
We could pick up Nick if someone else could take Lloyd from our house to Concord.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 18, 2006, 10:28 PM NHFT
We need Democrats and Republicans to attend this aswell. It would make it a lot harder for the senators to dismiss the protest as a bunch of "crazy anarchists".
No worries mate .... hardly any of us are known as crazy anarchists .... most people at this event will be a republican or democrate. Aren't you a Republican? You could wear a button or something.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 19, 2006, 05:54 AM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 18, 2006, 07:35 AM NHFT
We could maybe coordinate the SW NH convoy.
Lets see....
Captain Liberty
Sgt Wilco and batman
Kat, Kira and me
Lloyd
Nick
2 nazi pretenders
I think Nick needs a ride to Concord on Saturday.
Our car is full with Kat, Kira, me and Lloyd.
We could pick up Nick if someone else could take Lloyd from our house to Concord.
Take Nick, I'll try to go with Wayne or drive the whole way.
Caleb is also going .... so we have a lot of people leaving from here. Maybe we could meet here at our house and carpool however works best.
I am printing 400 flyers to be distributed on that day. They contain reasons why Real ID is to be opposed and HB 1582 is to be supported, as well as the names, addresses, phone numbers and email addresses of ALL the Senators so folks can write.
The front and back of what is to be handed out per the organizers and those can be seen on www.cnht.org as the first news item.
Help would be appreciated if individuals would print out a few of the back/front flyers to hand out at the event or to give to anyone they know.
- J
I'll be there! ;D My dog is traveling with me. I hope that he can attend - any no-dog rules on the property?
Brian
I guess I could be called a republican because I believe in a government that is limited to defending "Life, Liberty, and Property" within a strict constitutional framework. I believe that the best form of government to safeguard these things is a republic.
But I wouldn't affiliate in anyway with the GOP, I'm an LP guy. And it's not as if I'm firmly against anarcho-capitalism. I think that government makes or at least doesn't help 98% of the problems and injustices in the world, I'm just not convinced that our liberty would be more secure if we didn't have government as the avenue for addressing crimes of force and fraud.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 20, 2006, 12:54 AM NHFT
I guess I could be called a republican because I believe in a government that is limited to defending "Life, Liberty, and Property" within a strict constitutional framework. I believe that the best form of government to safeguard these things is a republic.
But I wouldn't affiliate in anyway with the GOP, I'm an LP guy. And it's not as if I'm firmly against anarcho-capitalism. I think that government makes or at least doesn't help 98% of the problems and injustices in the world, I'm just not convinced that our liberty would be more secure if we didn't have government as the avenue for addressing crimes of force and fraud.
Well, we can wait to get to pairing down 98% of the current government and then start arguing about whether it should be paired down more :)
Tracy
I have to agree with that guy that pointed out that the big difference is whether you are ok with coercion or not. How do you have limited coercion?
Quote from: FSPinNY on April 19, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I'll be there! ;D My dog is traveling with me. I hope that he can attend - any no-dog rules on the property?
Brian
Cool! ;D I think we'll be on the public sidewalk, so no problem about the dog.
Quote from: FSPinNY on April 19, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I'll be there! ;D My dog is traveling with me. I hope that he can attend - any no-dog rules on the property?
Brian
Right on, Brian!! You know that will end up in my blog. "Liberty lovers came from as far away as New York State... " ;D
We already know about a radio host coming from TX.
Quote from: Friday on April 20, 2006, 07:03 AM NHFT
Quote from: FSPinNY on April 19, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
My dog is traveling with me.
You know that will end up in my blog.
Does this mean that finally,
finally, Friday will have a blogpost about a dog?
We've been waiting for this for months!
(never mind if you don't get it, it's an inside joke... move along...)
Does anybody know where in New Hampshire I could buy a patriot-style tricorner hat? Thanks for any tips.
A Fox News affiliate (Fox 25) is going to cover the event. 8)
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 20, 2006, 09:06 PM NHFT
A Fox News affiliate (Fox 25) is going to cover the event. 8)
Is this likely to hit non-local Fox broadcasts? I'm stuck in Virginia for a while yet, but I'd love to see news coverage of this event. I'd even break my "no broadcast news" policy to see it. :)
Quote from: Friday on April 20, 2006, 08:51 PM NHFT
Does anybody know where in New Hampshire I could buy a patriot-style tricorner hat? Thanks for any tips.
Costume shops will most likely have them.
So Russell,
should I meet you guys at your house saturday morning?
Quote from: Evenstar on April 20, 2006, 09:47 PM NHFT
Is this likely to hit non-local Fox broadcasts? I'm stuck in Virginia for a while yet, but I'd love to see news coverage of this event. I'd even break my "no broadcast news" policy to see it. :)
Depends on what the news producers think. I'd say it has a good shot.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on April 20, 2006, 10:00 PM NHFT
So Russell,
should I meet you guys at your house saturday morning?
You can come here or we can pick you up.
Nick, did you get the emails I sent you?
Quote from: Friday on April 20, 2006, 08:51 PM NHFT
Does anybody know where in New Hampshire I could buy a patriot-style tricorner hat? Thanks for any tips.
J.P. knows about finding this stuff
Didn't see this mentioned, and it probably goes without saying. But if you attend this event, leave all your ID someplace else . . .
Any hints for people that haven't been to the Capitol yet on where to park?
If you don't find parking on the street, there's a garage behind the capital on Green St. (I think).
I've just posted mail to all 24 senators.
Since 1582 is mostly supported by the Democrats and opposed by the Senate Republicans,
I focused on how Real-ID will not make us any safer from terrorists,
and how important it is for New Hampshire to stand up for States' Rights.
If you live in NH, please do contact the Senate.
It helped defeat the Smoking Ban, and it can help 1582, too.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/senatemembers.html
Final design for Less Police State Please...
Thanks for the idea Russell :)
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Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 21, 2006, 11:25 AM NHFT
Didn't see this mentioned, and it probably goes without saying. But if you attend this event, leave all your ID someplace else . . .
I am going to bring mine .... but it might not survive the day.
Quote from: Ron Helwig on April 21, 2006, 11:41 AM NHFT
Any hints for people that haven't been to the Capitol yet on where to park?
On saturday I would guess that parking on the street behind the capital will be decent.
Hopefully it will not start raining tomorrow until after our event. :)
Beautiful sunny spring day on the mountain... :)
Got the music crankin' and print -n- mounting some signage. :icon_pirat:
You've GOT to read this article! You will be rolling on the floor!!
Political climate unfriendly to ID devices, backers say
GovExec.com - USA
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=33885&dcn=todaysnews (http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=33885&dcn=todaysnews)
Here's my favorite line:
>"We're scared to go to New Hampshire," he said. "They have gun racks on their motorcycles.
>They don't want anyone telling them what to do."
We're really making the RFID industry and ID-card-pushers mad / scared / apoplectic / ridiculously pathetic.
I'm debating this Atkinson guy in two weeks at CFP (http://www.cfp2006.org). I already debated Varn on NHPR and listened to him testify twice here in NH on various bills. He lied his way egregiously through each event.
-K.
==============================
Political climate unfriendly to ID devices, backers say
By Michael Martinez, National Journal's Technology Daily
Widespread misinformation about radio-frequency identification technology and high-tech identification cards has subverted federal and state legislation to modernize America's ID systems, a panel of industry officials and experts said Wednesday.
At the Smart Cards in Government Conference, advocates for RFID and tech-based "smart cards" said mandates to use modern technologies would dramatically improve the nation's security infrastructure. But resistance to such measures and technologies is swelling, they said.
Marc-Anthony Signorino, the director of technology policy at the tech group AeA, said that a fundamental misunderstanding of RFID spurred a series of poorly written bills in California, Illinois, New Hampshire and New Mexico to limit its use.
He said lawmakers have complicated measures to limit RFID usage because they have tried to make too many exemptions for uses they enjoy, such as smart cards for accessing highway toll lanes. "The legislation ends up looking like Swiss cheese," Signorino said.
Signorino said the political climate in New Hampshire has made it especially difficult for the industry to make a case for itself. The Granite State has been particularly active on the ID front. House lawmakers there last month passed a bill to reject a 2005 federal mandate for standard driver's licenses.
"We're scared to go to New Hampshire," he said. "They have gun racks on their motorcycles. They don't want anyone telling them what to do."
Robert Atkinson, the president of the Information Technology and Innovation Foundation, said RFID and smart-card advocates are facing an uphill battle because their opponents already have shaped the debate. "The ground has been so poisoned by the other side that I think it's going to be tough to move forward," Atkinson said.
The movement against RFID and federal driver's licensing standards has garnered support from all areas of the political spectrum, according to Atkinson.
He said an "unholy alliance" of groups such as the American Civil Liberties Union and the Eagle Forum, which is led by conservative activist Phyllis Schlafly, has choked the ability of the technology industry to gather political support. "This isn't a group of fringe players," he said.
Atkinson said he does not expect the Homeland Security Department to require embedded computer chips driver's licenses because detractors of the mandate have convinced enough people that such chips will do little to improve national security. "I just don't think it's going to happen," he said.
Richard Varn, the president of RJV Consulting and a former chief technology officer, said smart-card advocates should focus on convincing lawmakers to punish bad behavior instead of banning technology. He said lawmakers throughout the country need to "beef up" cyber-crime efforts.
"They are not investing sufficient money compared to the size of the crime to efficiently combat it," he said.
This document is located at http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0406/042006tdpm3.htm (http://www.govexec.com/dailyfed/0406/042006tdpm3.htm)
That is hilarious. You've got them scared, Katherine! ;D
Looks like the weather is on our side. :)
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http://www.weatherunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=03301&hourly=1&yday=111&weekday=Saturday
Yea .... lookin good. :icon_thumleft:
Quote from: NH Katherine on April 21, 2006, 02:22 PM NHFT
>"We're scared to go to New Hampshire," he said. "They have gun racks on their motorcycles.
>They don't want anyone telling them what to do."
:laughing4:
:icon_thumleft: ;D :icon_thumright:
Roger, the banner turned out awesome! ;D
Lloyd, in case no one responded, I think the metal detector is a good idea :glasses7:
"To those about to rock rally, FIRE! :violent5:
We salute you..."
:protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest:
Quote from: Friday on April 21, 2006, 06:35 PM NHFT
Roger, the banner turned out awesome! ;D
Lloyd, in case no one responded, I think the metal detector is a good idea :glasses7:
"To those about to rock rally, FIRE! :violent5:
We salute you..."
:protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest: :brave: :protest:
Glad the banner worked out well 8)
And an AC~DC quote very 8)
Friday, I'll bring my tricorn' hat (adorned w feathers from the Boston Tea Party Ship & Museum) wich you are free to use for the day ...
I'll also have my cusomized Gadsen (big surprize), & a New Hampshire state flag (on a pole}, & another Gadsen (for others who made need one) ...
Quote from: NH Katherine on April 21, 2006, 02:22 PM NHFT
http://www.govexec.com/story_page.cfm?articleid=33885&dcn=todaysnews
>"We're scared to go to New Hampshire," he said. "They have gun racks on their motorcycles. They don't want anyone telling them what to do."
That's a quote worthy for the front page. ;D
maybe still ok
http://www.weatherunderground.com/cgi-bin/findweather/getForecast?query=03301&hourly=1&yday=111&weekday=Saturday
Well, call us or just show up by 9:30 if you want a ride, Nick. 357-2049
Carpooling at our house begins at 9am and hits the road at 9:30. Concord or bust!
Great turn-out (150+), great speakers, great event!
This thing will live or die based on what 24 NH Senators vote in the next 72 hours.
The Republican leadership is telling them to vote "NO" on 1582!
The only way this will go through the Republican-controlled Senate is if the Republican Senators get such an outpouring of phone calls and emails from their constituents, that they can go back to the Republican leadership and say, "this is a real phenomenon -- we have no choice but to vote yes!"
There's a super-handy "contact your Senator" section on the website:
http://www.granitestateid.com/action.html
I'm getting my neighbors, friends, and casual acquaintances to call.
We win or lose in the next few days...
i counted 170 people, 3 documentary video crews and one mainstream press crew - from the concord monitor. The mainstream press turnout was the weak link in this chain.
The Monitor folks got a great shot however of our "brownshirt checkpoint" and if that gets out into the papers around the country, we're set.
just sent my senator a new email
Quote from: d_goddard on April 22, 2006, 02:06 PM NHFT
This thing will live or die based on what 24 NH Senators vote in the next 72 hours.
Actually, HB1582 is still in (Senate) committee and is expected to be considered Wednesday morning. So it'll be longer than 72 hours before the full Senate votes on it.
Checkpoint Charlie ;D
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1897)
Wow! The props and costumes are outstanding!
Good work, guys!
Kat :)
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More photos:
http://www.nhcaspian.org/images/protests/real-id-060422/index.htm
Katherine Albrecht
Sandy, where should I send the pictures for your group GraniteStateID.com?
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Quote from: Friday on April 22, 2006, 04:52 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on April 22, 2006, 02:06 PM NHFT
This thing will live or die based on what 24 NH Senators vote in the next 72 hours.
Actually, HB1582 is still in (Senate) committee and is expected to be considered Wednesday morning. So it'll be longer than 72 hours before the full Senate votes on it.
My bad...
It's good news, though, in that it gives us more time to get as many people as possible to contact their Senator, especially the Republican senators!
Roger, you can send them to info@granitestateid.com . Thanks!
Quote from: katdillon on April 22, 2006, 05:09 PM NHFT
More photos:
http://www.nhcaspian.org/images/protests/real-id-060422/index.htm
And I remain... the Vampire Activist, never (OK, rarely) captured on film. :privateeyes:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=62
I got Sandy :)
Christ, and your camera's still functional?? :fucyc:
I can't wait to see the pic of Varrin with "666" across his forehead. :icon_pirat:
It was a good rally, I especialy liked the second speaker. Wish I could have stayed longer, but at least i go to go this time!
And who is that tiny masked avenger darting across the frame in multiple photos?? :glasses13: Could it be that even SUPERHEROES oppose NationalID?
Great pictures
Quote from: Friday on April 22, 2006, 05:40 PM NHFT
Christ, and your camera's still functional??
We took a poll here and all agreed that Sandy is pretty.
Yes she is pretty, she brings money, but in Keene she still can't get Pepperoni ! :)
QuoteI can't wait to see the pic of Varrin with "666" across his forehead.
Oh, shoot! I've been wanting to meet Varrin. We must have passed several times.
Quote from: Friday on April 22, 2006, 05:46 PM NHFT
And who is that tiny masked avenger darting across the frame in multiple photos?? :glasses13: Could it be that even SUPERHEROES oppose NationalID?
When they attempted to stop Batman at the ID checkpoint he said "I don't need no stinkin' ID". ;D
Batman said he had a real good time. :)
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That looks like it was awesome!
I wish I could've been there.
Uploaded more pictures to the gallery. :icon_pirat:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=62
I fucking love it. ;D Seeing pictures like this makes me all giddy. I hope I can participate in something this summer when I visit ;D
Is Dave packing in that last picture? :)
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on April 22, 2006, 10:10 PM NHFT
Is Dave packing in that last picture? :)
Dave is always packing. ;D
Just got done looking at the pics= You guys are great.
Loved that goose stepping. ;D
I love the kid in the Batman suit. :D
Maybe he's reading "Year 100"
http://www.dccomics.com/comics/?cm=5190
Looks like it was a big success. I hope it had an impact on the Republicans in the state Senate.
Tracy
Did you guys get this on Saturday's FTL episode and/or other radio/blog/media? If not, get it done monday promptly! If someone can put together a simple "press release" of this event ASAP in a few paragraphs, I can put this to my blog (http://libertarianactivism.com/blog/), which gets lots of traffic and is picked up by various automatic RSS aggregators. Keep up the local pressure, and it couldn't hurt to Read it's Own Bills (http://www.downsizedc.org/read_the_laws.shtml), which would prevent or at least severely slow down BS (un)Patriot Act related crap and so much more on the federal end. A two-pronged approach would be a good idea.
If anyone gets pics/videos on line, we can promo these as well. Did the Keene Free Press run anything (Assuming anyone knows yet)?
Here is another.
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re: purty
Thanks, guys. :blush:
There were two good-sized, prominent articles about Real-ID in the Concord Monitor (http://www.concordmonitor.com/) today.
As I post this, the articles are not on their website; I don't know if they will be later on, or not.
First, we made the top story on the frontpage of the "Local & State" section! :)
Headline: "They Really don't like Real-ID"
Big photo of Lauren & Jim as Nazis, with Cal "Sgt. Bilko" searching someone, and Russ pulling out his ID to get past the "checkpoint".
Quotes from people at the event: CP member DeBenedictis, Patriot Rev. Lear, Spychips author Albrecht, Lauren Canario, Rep. Bicknell, and Rep. Kurk.
Second, a long op-ed piece, top frontpage of the "Viewpoints" section, by staffer Eric Moskowitz.
Title: "Is Real ID a sign of the apocalypse?"
He mentions Rep. Kurk's awesome speech (http://freestateblogs.net/node/306), and that it's been picked up by many bloggers. Believe it or not, he mentions freetalklive.com (http://freetalklive.com)!
He also mentions Katherine Albrecht, Irving Baxter, CASPIAN, and Joel Winters.
Neither article was anywhere near as stilted as the Concord Monitor's articles usually are. One gets the impression they may have actually written them after the event (as opposed to beforehand, ahem). My one gripe is that the first article says the rally was attended by "more than 100" people; I conservatively guesstimated 150+, DadaOrwell's one-by-one hand count sets the number at 170.
<<Edit: grammar Nazi: fixed improper apostophe placement>>
The rally could not have been better, it had everything! The people lining the street with signs and all everything else. What ticks me off is the press. They are keeping us out and I think we all know why and who is behind it. I want you guys to know that we where told they would come but apparently gas prices are more important than freedom.
that's my 2 cents
Quote from: ravelkinbow on April 23, 2006, 10:17 AM NHFT
The rally could not have been better, it had everything! The people lining the street with signs and all everything else. What ticks me off is the press. They are keeping us out and I think we all know why and who is behind it. I want you guys to know that we where told they would come but apparently gas prices are more important than freedom.
that's my 2 cents
I'd also like to have seen a large crowd. 170 probably isn't bad, but hopefully we can do better as we learn more about how to do these.
In Minnesota we grew our anti-tax protests into the 5,000 range.
that is the hard part...getting enough volunteers to help, the more volunteers the more people get reached.
Any volunteers there is still work to be done!
Sounds like an excellent turn out, awesome pictures, and even some mainstream press coverage. Nothing to complain about there! Very professionally done, from what I can read and see here - you should all be very proud of your accomplishment.
Here are a couple of suggestions for those of you who are unhappy with the media response (although this may have already been thought of or done): send a follow up photo or two to the papers that did not send someone to the event, as well as a post event press release. LTE's could help too.
Russell thought it was going to take place on the sidewalk in front of the arch. This would have consentrated those who attended and, having added to the visability, might have dragged more people off the street. This is something to think about in the future.
Congradulations and thanks to the organizers!
I agree, the rally went VERY well, very professional, all the bases covered, couldn't have been handled better, really. Congratulations to Joel, Jenn, Michael, Katherine and all their volunteers for making it happen!!
It's disappointing that it didn't get more media coverage, but perhaps it just takes a bit of time to convince the media that we are a force to be reckoned with. I strongly suspect that if HB1582 passes, they'll show up at the next rally. ;)
Well done everyone. Yall just made my day!
What I found most interesting were the passers by that I talked to for the hour before the rally were all against the national ID. I even talked to a couple of older gents who were visiting from out of state who felt the same. In fact, when I was here at work yesterday I got talking to a couple people and they too, were against NH's participation in the Real ID. Nice to know that NHers are still as grounded as I remeber.
Here are direct links to the articles:
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230386
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230376
McPat, I love that photo!
I never thought the would print the "FU." That is exactly what I said when asked for my "papers please." I told the Nazis that I had intened to have that written on a piece of paper for them, but that I had forgotten it.
What would happen in the real word when one "forgets" his "papers?"
Quote from: katdillon on April 23, 2006, 01:58 PM NHFT
Here are direct links to the articles:
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230386
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230376
McPat, I love that photo!
Thank you! I thought it was a perfect image for the day's activities.
btw, Thanks to everyone who put this event together. You did a GREAT job!
Quote from: katdillon on April 23, 2006, 01:58 PM NHFT
Here are direct links to the articles:
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230386
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230376
Does anyone else see the same tone in both articles ie. that these wackos are against making it harder for terrorists to board planes.
The media is a double edged sword on these kind of issues. We need to promote our own coverage of these events within the pro-liberty universe of blogs and forums etc. This is much more effective than hoping to appeal to joe average citizen through the filter of mass media.
Get a hundred more motivated activists to come and help... that is more effective than reaching 1000 peoples voting support.
I said it to Dave Ridley and I'll say it to the group... let's show the rest of the freedom movement that there is a party going on and they should come join in. NH needs to be seen as the place to be.
Take up Dave's challenge and spread the tale of the Battle of Concord to stop National ID on other forums, blogs etc. http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=2613.45 Come back to the forum and let everybody else know the results of your efforts.
We can grab our allies attention, they are our real audience. :icon_pirat:
I agree. You can't always get media members to write good stories about you. Being our own media .... reaching out to like-minded people, works.
The Senators are not listening to us. The mainstream media doesn't quite understand, but we had 4 new movers to NH yesterday at the party. Good people are attracted to what we are doing here in NH.
Sorry, I have to disagree. I think that both are important - remember, we CAN NOT win by majority - we HAVE to win through persuaion and swinging people to our side. Advertising around lib-friendly circles is great for getting new activists, advertising and taking part in mainstream media is needed to garnish support.
Just my $0.02.
JM
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 23, 2006, 03:22 PM NHFT
We need to promote our own coverage of these events within the pro-liberty universe of blogs and forums etc. ... let's show the rest of the freedom movement that there is a party going on and they should come join in. NH needs to be seen as the place to be.
Hear, hear!
Point taken; postings made to the FSP Livejournal (http://community.livejournal.com/freestate) and of course to FreeStateBlogs (http://freestateblogs.net/node/415)
It's a damn cryin' shame nobody called in to FreeTalkLive last night; Saturday is their biggest show, lots of live listeners actively called in from Indianapolis, Washington state, etc., last night. For the record, I'm as much to blame as anyone on that score. I sometimes do call in, but just plain dropped the ball this time.
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 23, 2006, 03:22 PM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 23, 2006, 01:58 PM NHFT
Here are direct links to the articles:
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230386
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230376
Does anyone else see the same tone in both articles ie. that these wackos are against making it harder for terrorists to board planes.
I didn't sense that tone at all. I thought they were quite open and favorable.
Kevin
Quote from: jgmaynard on April 23, 2006, 03:36 PM NHFT
Sorry, I have to disagree. I think that both are important - remember, we CAN NOT win by majority - we HAVE to win through persuaion and swinging people to our side. Advertising around lib-friendly circles is great for getting new activists, advertising and taking part in mainstream media is needed to garnish support.
Just my $0.02.
JM
My point is alot of people have the view that making it into the paper or on TV is the highest acheivement. It's good and I'm happy that some attention was paid to the efforts of those that participated.
But, the "balanced" coverage approach and the need to make a cheeky story means that ourside is portrayed as spouting
Quote"a sign of the apocalypse" and "...comparing the United States to Nazi Germany and warning against everything from a police state to the start of the apocalypse. Tim DeBenedictis, of Wakefield, was one of a handful of people with stickers bearing the number "666" stuck to their foreheads".
Meanwhile, the government's position is so reasonable to err towards the presumed protections
Quote"...more thoroughly screen people applying for driver's licenses, issue licenses that contain anti-fraud precautions such as computer chips, and create a database with digital copies of drivers' birth certificates and other identifying documents. Anyone flying on an airplane, opening a bank account or entering a federal building would need to have the national ID card or a passport."
And I'm not looking for new members to the party, I'm saying given another one hundred-- Laurens, Sandys, Russells, Kats, Daves etc. and we will be quite alot more effective. (Not to ignore the dozens others that have attacked this from all the angles.)
This approach is a new model, that will replace the old top down organizations model. This forums creation and growth stand in testiment to what can be done, on a shoestring budget by motivated, experienced activists. We need to build the core group. Going door to door might be what some folks are into, I'm interested in bringing the talent that already exists on to our decentralized team. Just one more activist... could be the key player that makes something cool we can't even dream up now happen.
I don't believe this is a numbers game, inspire and motivate the folks that are waiting for a place to put their efforts. The chaotic and wonderful results will grow from that. :)
I thought the articles were good as well.......
Here's the letter I just finsihed to Eaton. I know he and his brother Dan disagree vigorously on politics, so I decided to try to get an "in"...
What do you all think?
Dear Senator Eaton:
My name is James Maynard, and I am a native or New Hampshire and a resident of Keene for twelve years. In fact, I once debated your brother, Dan, at Keene High School.
I am writing to you concerning HB 1582, which will soon come up for a vote by the NH Senate. This bill, as you are likely aware, would keep our proud state from participating in the REAL-ID program recently passed 100-0 by the U.S. Senate.
REAL-ID is, in my opinion, contrary to both the U.S. and the NH Constitutions, as well as being an unfunded mandate. I strongly urge you to vote for HB 1582 in order to uphold our state?s strong independent heritage.
A little known fact is that the very first ship in the U.S. Navy was not only built in Portsmouth, but was manned, largely, by a crew chosen from New Hampshire. When the captain, none other than the infamous John Paul Jones, would give an order, his crew would go below deck and vote on whether or not they would follow his latest order. This is the spirit that drives the people of New Hampshire: not one of conformity and submission, but a hunger for freedom, liberty and common sense.
You will hear calls that such this de-facto national ID card will make us safer, but any additional degree of safety which may be gained will be short-lived as those who wish to harm us will, inevitably, find a way around security measures. We need only look at how often Microsoft puts out security updates to see how short-lived computer security is in the modern day. The cost, however, will never go away as we will all become numbers: our lives and personal information forever at the mercy of federal databases that can, at any time, be taken from within or without. Our privacy, our livelihoods and our senior?s hard-earned nest eggs can be taken anytime with such a behemoth mass of personal data in the hands of the Washington bureaucrats, far removed from the realities of the lives of everyday citizens of New Hampshire.
You will hear calls that we cannot pass up or even ?lose? the $3 Million NH will receive from implementing REAL-ID. However, with in-state costs for this program estimated to cost between eleven and thirty million dollars, voting yes on HB 1582 and rejecting REAL-ID will SAVE the state millions of dollars.
You will hear calls that rejecting REAL-ID will require the people of the state to produce a passport in order to board aircraft or to enter federal buildings. But I ask, at what price Liberty? I, personally, would consider that a small price to pay for standing up for freedom.
My grandfather fought in World War II, becoming injured supporting the forces of General Patton at the Battle of the Bulge. The evil he was fighting was guilty of several of the most horrific crimes in history. One of the hallmarks of the Nazi regime was national identification cards. We all recall the clich? in movies of that time ?Your papers, please?. Although it was only one small part of the Nazi mindset, I believe that it is a pretty good rule-of-thumb that if the Nazis did something, it?s probably a good idea not to do it.
New Hampshire has been chosen to become one of the first two states to be a testing ground for REAL-ID. Let history show that the test showed the courage of the people of New Hampshire. Let our children read in their books that when, for the first time in history, the Federal Government tried to enact a national ID, the people of New Hampshire stood up and said NO! Let the test ground be here and let that testing show the force, the power and the right of our Constitutional heritage. Let New Hampshire be the line in the sand where the people of this nation say that we will NEVER hear the phrase ?Your papers, please?, except in old grainy movies.
You have the power to make that happen, Senator. Please vote yes on HB 1582.
Respectfully,
James Maynard
63 Castle St. #2
Keene, NH 03431
Very nice. :)
Agree the protest turned out really well, especially when you consider
we are rookies, just learning the game. Dave's numbers about 170 is
pretty much in my opinion right on.
What I take issue with is Keene is the hot bed of activism in NH? Hello,
Joel, from Manchester, and Jenn, form Concord where the folks most responsible
and the folks who work the hardest to make this happen, not the Keene
folks!
Sure a few Keene folks showed up and the uniforms were super, but hey just
calling it as I see it. The vast majority of the folks who showed up were not
from Keene, the vast majority of the folks who have been working there butts
off for freedom are not from Keene. Hoping to give them there dues.
Don't mean to be disrespectful to the few folks in Keene who have been helping,
but do want to dispell the myth that all that is happening here in NH is coming
from Keene!
I Salute the few folks in Keene who are helping, but feel real bad about the impresseions that may be thrown out that they are the only helpers.
Guess I am throwing this at you Ian and your radio show...Most of us, are more
quiet, don't have time to throw out thousands of post on this forum? Just work
quietly to promote freedom. Ask anyone, I know the folks, and I know that they
are doing it!
So hoping when you get to NH you see the real picture!
Oh hell, there goes my karma with this post! :)
No arguement from me Dave... :)
All you folks rock.
With the multi-point pitchfork approach we hit these things from all angles.
I salute all the activists!
Hey Roger....Pleasue meeting you and the misses Saturday! :)
Quote from: davemincin on April 23, 2006, 06:59 PM NHFT
Hey Roger....Pleasue meeting you and the misses Saturday! :)
Yeah, it's funny it was like I already knew you, I was working on a graphic and looking through pictures from PorcFest and had just cut out your smiling face. ;D
[attachment deleted by admin]
Thanks Roger...Made my day dude! :)
Quote from: davemincin on April 23, 2006, 06:49 PM NHFT
Agree the protest turned out really well, especially when you consider
we are rookies, just learning the game. Dave's numbers about 170 is
pretty much in my opinion right on.
What I take issue with is Keene is the hot bed of activism in NH? Hello,
Joel, from Manchester, and Jenn, form Concord where the folks most responsible
and the folks who work the hardest to make this happen, not the Keene
folks!
Sure a few Keene folks showed up and the uniforms were super, but hey just
calling it as I see it. The vast majority of the folks who showed up were not
from Keene, the vast majority of the folks who have been working there butts
off for freedom are not from Keene. Hoping to give them there dues.
Don't mean to be disrespectful to the few folks in Keene who have been helping,
but do want to dispell the myth that all that is happening here in NH is coming
from Keene!
I Salute the few folks in Keene who are helping, but feel real bad about the impresseions that may be thrown out that they are the only helpers.
Guess I am throwing this at you Ian and your radio show...Most of us, are more
quiet, don't have time to throw out thousands of post on this forum? Just work
quietly to promote freedom. Ask anyone, I know the folks, and I know that they
are doing it!
So hoping when you get to NH you see the real picture!
Oh hell, there goes my karma with this post! :)
What the HELL prompted this?
My listing of specific folks was because Sandy was the one who I followed into this event (she kept us informed), Kat and Russell are the creators of the forum I partcipate in, and where I found out about this event/issue. I don't live in NH so I'm happy with Dave for doing enough communications to cover for people like me. And Lauren and Jim's uniform idea, made me laugh, and got me to resurrect my alter ego Lt. Roger Wilco. :icon_pirat:
I should have mentioned others like Denis, etc. that I followed the internal goings on through. My not mentioning Joel, and everybody else is just I haven't been tuned in to those channels.
I follow people I trust and respect... that list is growing in this movement. :D
Quote from: jgmaynard on April 23, 2006, 05:43 PM NHFT
Here's the letter I just finsihed to Eaton. I know he and his brother Dan disagree vigorously on politics, so I decided to try to get an "in"...
What do you all think?
You hit all the right points... and the bit about debating his brother in High School, damn, that's
too good!
Eaton is exactly the kind of (R) we need to bring over to our side to win this.
Thank you, John!
Quote from: davemincin on April 23, 2006, 06:49 PM NHFTMost of us, are more
quiet, don't have time to throw out thousands of post on this forum? Just work
quietly to promote freedom.
:laughing9: :laughing6: :laughing7: :laughing4:
Hey Dave,
I'll boost your Karma - even though that post makes me say WOW.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 23, 2006, 07:46 PM NHFT
What the HELL prompted this?
You must have promted that Lloyd. You're the one who
car pooled caravaned all "
those people" from "
out west." (Sorry I couldn't help it. :o)
Peace!
James,
The letter to Eaton is very, very nice!
If that doesn't win his vote, he may not be worth voting for.
Thanks for sending it!
Made me proud to be at the event ;D Well done folks. My butt is sore from all the driving over the last four days but it was well worth it. Got to see many new towns and rule some out. So nice to see my Porc friends. Many of you I don't know yet, but soon.
A realization about trying to choose a town and moving there - I don't have to! I could move to a temporary apt. and look from there over a month or two. That certainly takes the pressure off! Anyone know of dog-friendly, not in the heart of a city, month by month apartment?
Brian
Hey Lloyd...a fair question...but keep hearing from Ian the radio dude that Keene is the hot bed of activism in NH, like the rest of the folks aren't doing anything?
Just wanted to throw it out! Do believe the Keene folks are doing stuff, but they are far from the only folks who are doing stuff. Russell, Kat, Dawn, maybe Caleb... ok, perhaps Jim....who else? Oops the folks from from via AZ or where ever, but think about the other folks all over NH...could do names, but do I really need too?
Just figured someone needed to stand up and speak for all the folks who are quietly doing stuff all over NH.
Think the Keene folks have been super in what they have done, but they are no where the only folks who are doing stuff or even the majority of folks who are active in the freedom fight in NH.
Believe because they are so vocal here that folks who don't live here get the wrong impression. :)
Quote from: John on April 23, 2006, 08:51 PM NHFT
Hey Dave,
I'll boost your Karma - even though that post makes me say WOW.
Thanks John...actually lost 4 since yesterday...even with you positive one....Hoping my last post explains a bit were I'm coming from. :)
Well, I'm out here looking in on you folks in NH and I see activism all over the state by many, many people. :)
"thinking" ( :)) we are all cool! We each do what we can.
I'm jumping before i start to dabate . . .
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3551.msg62558#new
"Might as well jump!"
Is there anything planned for the next vote on 1582? A show of support would always be a good thing.
Quote from: John on April 23, 2006, 09:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 23, 2006, 07:46 PM NHFT
What the HELL prompted this?
You must have promted that Lloyd. You're the one who car pooled caravaned all "those people" from "out west." (Sorry I couldn't help it. :o)
Peace!
Actually,John I got a ride in from Keene ;D
Quote from: davemincin on April 23, 2006, 10:19 PM NHFT
Hey Lloyd...a fair question...but keep hearing from Ian the radio dude that Keene is the hot bed of activism in NH, like the rest of the folks aren't doing anything?
I can never remember to listen to FTL, but, I bet they will be talking about the Rally that was held saturday. You should call in and make sure the right people get the credit.
Quote
Believe because they are so vocal here that folks who don't live here get the wrong impression. :)
They started this forum to be vocal, but, it is open to everyone. I'm only on two forums and this one is very popular!
Quote from: intergraph19 on April 24, 2006, 06:02 AM NHFT
Is there anything planned for the next vote on 1582? A show of support would always be a good thing.
Yes! If you can, please go to Concord on Wednesday. Meet up with the group in the cafeteria of the State House at 8:30AM. They are going to stand en masse WHERE THE SENATORS WILL SEE THEM (i.e. if you insist on doing your own thing, your effort may be wasted; you need to know where the Senators park, and therefore which route they'll be taking). You can also watch the committee proceedings (without participating), which start at 10:30, so professional dress is preferred.
Maybe FTL talks about the folks in Keene because they call FTL? I seriously doubt Ian has a blackout policy on callers from the rest of the state.
FYI, I urged the rally organizers to call FTL after the rally, knowing that FTL would love to have someone talk about it, and it would be more press coverage. Guess they chose not to do so. And yes, I could have done it myself, but getting interviewed live on the radio "isn't my bag, baby".
http://cmonitor.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?userphoto=0&image=11983972&thispage=1
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/REPOSITORY/604230386/1043/NEWS01
To illustrate that point, Lauren Canario and Jim Johnson, members of the Free State Project, dressed in Nazi beige and stood watch over a mock guard shack at the edge of the lawn. To pass through the fake gate to the free popcorn stand and rally ahead, passersby had to say "F U."
"You can't get by without cursing the Nazis," said Canario, who was holding a sign that read "Say Yahvol to Real ID."
;D
Quote from: Tunga on April 24, 2006, 07:09 AM NHFT
http://cmonitor.mycapture.com/mycapture/enlarge.asp?userphoto=0&image=11983972&thispage=1
Thanks for the link to Batman's picture. ;D
QuoteCaption: William Grant, 5, of Vermont stands with his mother and checks out the scene at yesterday's rally to protest a national identification. His mother, Elizabeth, said that William wanted to wear his Batman costume so that no one would know his true identity. April 22, 2006 (Concord Monitor photo/Preston Gannaway)
Posted links to pictures from the rally on SunniMaravillosa.com
Blog entree was talking about if people should flee the US. Wanted to remind folks it's our children's generation that will bear the real burden if we allow this country to slip further into a police state.
I'm glad you all liked the letter. I just sent it out. :D
JM
I got through very early (10:10 pm or so) to Mat Drudge's show's screener last night, but he said they didn't want to take the call because they didn't have enough info.
Drudge is always barking about this kind of stuff, so I thought he would take the call "cold." . . . asked me to email somthing . . . I sent Katherine's post with the "We're afraid to go to NH..." quote/article & the link to the Concord Monitor article. It never got mentioned.
If Drudge has not gotten a press kit (or whatever is the right info to send). I think he should.
OK Dave, I gave you a karma point - ARE YOU HAPPY NOW?!?!?!?!?!?!?! ;)
But it was mainly for being such a great guy...
JM
I had to smite Jim once to keep balance in the universe.
http://www.wkxl1450.com/mp3/April/anti-real%20id%20pkg.mp3
radio story on the rally
OK folks I got onto Free Talk Live and gave then an update.
And, YOU should TOO! It is easy.
Call 1-800-259-9231 NOW: I'm sure that they (hosts as well as audience) are all looking forward to hearing more!
You can do at least as well as I - and you should.
Oh, and they are on from 7- 10 pm.
a message from Joel:
I just got word that Rep. Neal Kurk and Katherine Albrecht will be on
My TV Prime, a live call in talk show. This airs on WNDS-50 out of
Derry, most cable providers carry it. They will be discussing HB1582
and REAL ID in New Hampshire, and encouraging people to call their
senators.
For anyone able to tune in at 8:00, you will have an oppertunity to
call in and voice your thoughts on the air. The first few calls go a
long way towards setting the tone of the show.
Quote from: katdillon on April 24, 2006, 04:45 PM NHFT
I had to smite Jim once to keep balance in the universe.
Just to show you what kinda guy I am, Kat, I GAVE you one karma point.
Feel
pretty bad now, don't ya? ;)
When are they going to be on? I don't think you gave a date Friday..... Or is it Friday? ;) Is this the show hosted by Arnie Arnensen?
JM
To anyone calling in FTL, please listen prior to calling unless you're calling at 7pm ET, to be the first caller of the night. If you call in to tell us the event went great, don't be the 2nd person to do so, be the first. Otherwise when you come on, we'll just alert you that someone called earlier, and you'll sound silly.
And yes, it was a shame no one called on Sat. that night holds our biggest radio audience.
Quote from: davemincin on April 23, 2006, 10:19 PM NHFT
Hey Lloyd...a fair question...but keep hearing from Ian the radio dude that Keene is the hot bed of activism in NH, like the rest of the folks aren't doing anything?
I've never suggested the other activists aren't doing anything. Dave, I realize that there are activists everywhere. It just seems to me that the hub of activity is in Keene. I call it like I see it. If it's not actually the hub, just give me a little time, and it will be. 8)
When I googled -- Concord NH anti real ID rally --
the NHunderground is the second listing.
All this typing pays off in the search engines. ;D
With the huge amount of text this forum generates it can't help but rank well for the keywords.
See if your postings show up high in the search results... Dada Orwell's posts consistently rank up there. :icon_pirat:
I don't see Keene as the hub of activity, but enough goes on there to keep an activist busy without having to ever leave. It is a good choice unless you want large turnouts. It just isn't central enough to get everyone together.
Cathleen
Quote from: cathleeninnh on April 25, 2006, 08:52 AM NHFT
I don't see Keene as the hub of activity..... It just isn't central enough to get everyone together.
We will have to work on that.
If we get enough guys here and split from NH ..... then we will be central. :)
Quote from: cathleeninnh on April 25, 2006, 08:52 AM NHFT
It is a good choice unless you want large turnouts. It just isn't central enough to get everyone together.
Cathleen
Hmm, so the Keene people are willing to travel to attend Concord area events but the door doesn't swing both ways? I bet you're wrong, and if there is an exciting event happening in Keene, then people will turn out.
Besides, FTL will draw new people to Keene, so it won't matter if no one else in the state wants to make the drive.
Also, in other news, I just got off the phone with Senator Eaton. He claims he's read part of 1582, which I'm not sure I believe, because it's so damn short I don't know how you could just read part of it. He says he's still "up in the air" on it. I told him about the successful rally.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 25, 2006, 01:01 PM NHFT
He claims he's read part of 1582, which I'm not sure I believe, because it's so damn short I don't know how you could just read part of it. He says he's still "up in the air" on it. I told him about the successful rally.
sounds like a true politician. He just doesn't want to tell you no.
Maybe if he could get a few dozen calls from people in the 'Keene Metro Area'.
Will there be a record of how all the senators voted on this bill?
Quote from: Dreepa on April 25, 2006, 01:33 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 25, 2006, 01:01 PM NHFT
He claims he's read part of 1582, which I'm not sure I believe, because it's so damn short I don't know how you could just read part of it. He says he's still "up in the air" on it. I told him about the successful rally.
sounds like a true politician. He just doesn't want to tell you no.
That is so funny .... he read part of a one paragraph bill. If he hasn't decided, maybe he should read the bill.
Quote from: katdillon on April 25, 2006, 02:12 PM NHFT
Will there be a record of how all the senators voted on this bill?
If they roll call vote they will.
"...Senator Eaton. He claims he's read part of 1582... "
:o ::) :o ::) :o ::) :o ::) :o ::) :o ::)
Quote from: katdillon on April 25, 2006, 02:12 PM NHFT
Will there be a record of how all the senators voted on this bill?
I'm thinking they should be proud to stand on the side of Liberty and they should have a roll call. On the other hand, they may be too afraid of the feds to have their identities know.
If they don't have a roll call vote and we win, I may not ask too many questions this time.
If they don't have a roll call vote and we lose, I'll assume the worst of all of those who did not take a very clear public stand.
Quote from: John on April 25, 2006, 03:41 PM NHFT
If they don't have a roll call vote and we win, I may not ask too many questions this time.
If they don't have a roll call vote and we lose, I'll assume the worst of all of those who did not take a very clear public stand.
Good points!
Quote from: Friday on April 24, 2006, 06:45 AM NHFT
Quote from: intergraph19 on April 24, 2006, 06:02 AM NHFT
Is there anything planned for the next vote on 1582? A show of support would always be a good thing.
Yes! If you can, please go to Concord on Wednesday. Meet up with the group in the cafeteria of the State House at 8:30AM. They are going to stand en masse WHERE THE SENATORS WILL SEE THEM (i.e. if you insist on doing your own thing, your effort may be wasted; you need to know where the Senators park, and therefore which route they'll be taking). You can also watch the committee proceedings (without participating), which start at 10:30, so professional dress is preferred.
*sigh* always when I'm working. :-[
btw, Karl Beisel has the "ANOTHER VEIW" opinion column in today's Union Leader: New Hampshire can stop the coming federal police state
Quote from: jgmaynard on April 24, 2006, 11:52 PM NHFT
When are they going to be on? I don't think you gave a date Friday..... Or is it Friday? ;) Is this the show hosted by Arnie Arnensen?
JM
It was last night, Jim. Sorry that wasn't clear.
Quote from: Dreepa on April 25, 2006, 02:52 PM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 25, 2006, 02:12 PM NHFT
Will there be a record of how all the senators voted on this bill?
If they roll call vote they will.
There will definitely be a roll call. Don Gorman already got one of the Senators to agree to call for one (I forget who).
Maybe Senator Eaton meant that he was still reading through all the materials he's received today on the bill. Joel Winters put together a packet of info that was given to him to ask for support of the bill and there were two guys from Washington (I forget who they were representing - guess Gregg or Bradley) in the Senate President's office all day today trying to woo Senators to be against the bill and therefore in favor of the REAL ID.
These guys were very sneaky and took the side door out of the office so that Joel and others who were there ALL DAY (9 - 3:30) wouldn't get a chance to talk to them. Cowards!
When someone on the committee (at the public hearing) said he would be checking with our congressional delegation, it became clear to me that there would be some behind-the-scene manuvering . . . If we lose this vote, I'll asume the worst of any/all in our congressional delegation who has/have not taken a clear PUBLIC stance with us.
As a (small l) libertarian who has leaned very, very generously towards their party since my first vote in 1980, I am sickened by what is going on.
If they can not find their way to support us on this, then how can any of us ever trust/support those who would do this to us? I, for one, am very tired of being played!
To paraphrase our president: If they are not with us on this one, they are against us.
this is huge-
yahoo story, please rate it 5 stars
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060425/ap_on_re_us/privacy_licenses_2
short version
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/14428344.htm?source=rss&channel=kansascity_nation
longer
http://www.startribune.com/484/story/392867.html
major media
N.H. Leads Revolt Against Federal ID Rules
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1889776&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
Quote from: TN-FSP on April 26, 2006, 03:04 AM NHFT
this is huge-
yahoo story, please rate it 5 stars
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060425/ap_on_re_us/privacy_licenses_2
short version
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/news/nation/14428344.htm?source=rss&channel=kansascity_nation
longer
http://www.startribune.com/484/story/392867.html
major media
N.H. Leads Revolt Against Federal ID Rules
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory?id=1889776&CMP=OTC-RSSFeeds0312
Thanks for posting the articles. :)
A little more balanced than the Concord Monitor coverage...
Quote from: Rearden on April 26, 2006, 04:46 AM NHFT
According to Associated Press reports, the House Judiciary Committee sent two staff members to Concord yesterday, armed with letters from Representatives Bradley and Bass, to twist the arms of our elected state senators and lobby them to vote against HB 1582, a bill to forbid our great state from participating in the so-called REAL ID Act.
Rearden, this needs to be a letter to the UL and Monitor. Please send it.
Excellent work!
Kevin
Quote from: Rearden on April 26, 2006, 04:46 AM NHFT
According to Associated Press reports, the House Judiciary Committee sent two staff members to Concord yesterday, armed with letters from Representatives Bradley and Bass, to twist the arms of our elected state senators and lobby them to vote against HB 1582, a bill to forbid our great state from participating in the so-called REAL ID Act.
Can you do this for the Keene Free Press?
My big problem with the coverage is this:
QuoteA weekend rally featuring Real ID opponents in Nazi uniforms
There was no attempt to explain that the opponents in Nazi uniforms were parodying. It can be misconstrued to read that Nazis are against Real ID.
Quote from: KBCraig on April 26, 2006, 06:29 AM NHFT
Quote from: Rearden on April 26, 2006, 04:46 AM NHFT
According to Associated Press reports, the House Judiciary Committee sent two staff members to Concord yesterday, armed with letters from Representatives Bradley and Bass, to twist the arms of our elected state senators and lobby them to vote against HB 1582, a bill to forbid our great state from participating in the so-called REAL ID Act.
Rearden, this needs to be a letter to the UL and Monitor. Please send it.
Excellent work!
Kevin
Or a guest article op. in the UL. It is good.
Quote from: John on April 26, 2006, 01:26 AM NHFT
. . . If we lose this vote, I'll asume the worst of any/all in our congressional delegation who has/have not taken a clear PUBLIC stance with us.
They have. Bradley, Bass and Gregg are all gung-ho for REAL ID. Bradley and Bass are cosponsors. Sununu stands alone in opposition.
Anyone else love that our controllers in DC sent a lobbyist to butter up our New Hampshire Senators, at taxpayer expense no less?
Quote from: Ruger Mason on April 26, 2006, 08:34 AM NHFT
Quote from: John on April 26, 2006, 01:26 AM NHFT
. . . If we lose this vote, I'll asume the worst of any/all in our congressional delegation who has/have not taken a clear PUBLIC stance with us.
They have. Bradley, Bass and Gregg are all gung-ho for REAL ID. Bradley and Bass are cosponsors. Sununu stands alone in opposition.
Anyone else love that our controllers in DC sent a lobbyist to butter up our New Hampshire Senators, at taxpayer expense no less?
If they travelled to influence the legislation on the public dime that might be a violation of law. I remember... was it MPP going after a similar thing.
Breaking news: HB1582 passed the Senate Committee.
Voted "Ought to Pass" 5 to 0 (out of 6, 1 absent). The vote required about 25 seconds to occur.
wow
That means that 8 people not on the committe need to agree.
Nice!
This should make the politicos quite happy. ;)
As an ancap, I just want to decrease the consent of the governed. After the bill passes, the popular culture will probably follow it as doctrine -- recent history proves this effect. Through this type of change, consent for the US government will be weakened while consent for the New Hampshire government will be strengthened. If that's what you want, then today is a day to celebrate.
I wonder why, even though we had an acceptable turnout, most people at the protest were our libertarian friends. Where was the general public? Why don't they care?
Most things turn out like a Bell Curve. We're happily out at the edge! ;D
Quote from: FSPinNY on April 26, 2006, 10:25 AM NHFT
Most things turn out like a Bell Curve. We're happily out at the edge! ;D
Some of us are out at the edge of the Art Bell curve. ;D
When will the full senate vote on this?
Quote from: katdillon on April 26, 2006, 11:22 AM NHFT
When will the full senate vote on this?
Probably after they've extracted as much money as possible from the lobbyists.
Quote from: katdillon on April 26, 2006, 11:22 AM NHFT
When will the full senate vote on this?
It is scheduled for a vote next Wednesday. Given the backlog, it may not come
up for a vote until Thursday.
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 26, 2006, 10:21 AM NHFT
This should make the politicos quite happy. ;)
As an ancap, I just want to decrease the consent of the governed. After the bill passes, the popular culture will probably follow it as doctrine -- recent history proves this effect. Through this type of change, consent for the US government will be weakened while consent for the New Hampshire government will be strengthened. If that's what you want, then today is a day to celebrate.
I wonder why, even though we had an acceptable turnout, most people at the protest were our libertarian friends. Where was the general public? Why don't they care?
Sheeple!
I had a request for video footage that is needed today... from Denis Goddard.
I have copied the tape and am willing to deliver it. Someone that knows where it needs to be delivered to please PM me.
But, I need an answer quick.
He's not in the porc directory.
Quote from: katdillon on April 26, 2006, 01:20 PM NHFT
He's not in the porc directory.
Thanks Kat how about Sandy or would it be NHCaspian
I called and e-mailed Jenn Coffey (per Denis's PM)
This kind of derails a work day so I'd like the effort to be worth it. :)
update:
Got contacted by Jenn Coffey, thanks.
Now need to make this stuff into different formats.
Quote from: Rearden on April 26, 2006, 04:46 AM NHFT
According to Associated Press reports, the House Judiciary Committee sent two staff members to Concord yesterday, armed with letters from Representatives Bradley and Bass, to twist the arms of our elected state senators and lobby them to vote against HB 1582, a bill to forbid our great state from participating in the so-called REAL ID Act.
There are so many things wrong with this that it's difficult to know where to start. The greatest wrong is that the House Judiciary Committee in question wasn't the one across the hall from the senate, but was in fact the one in Washington, D.C. Using taxpayer money, our taxpayer money, Congress flew two government lobbyists here to our state for the express purpose of interfering with our elected state government.
Wow. I'm speechless.
How dare they? How dare those people come between us, the people, and those we elect to represent our wishes? Our nation was founded upon the ideals of federalism, in which the state and federal governments operate in their own spheres and each respects the province of the other. I knew this proven and effective form of government has been increasingly eroded in favor of a centralized bureaucracy, but I did not realize how far we had fallen.
What makes it even worse is that Bradley and Bass, who we elected largely to protect us from stupid and blundering federal policies, betrayed we the people by joining with these lobbying attempts. Have they no shame, no decency, no recognition of their proper role? How could they attempt to interfere with the internal decision-making of our state government?
Those senators who met with these staffers, these taxpayer-paid lackeys, these congressional toadies, should have had the fortitude to eject them from their offices, physically if necessary, reciting constitutional passages as they did so like Moses screaming down the ten commandments from the mountaintop. Instead, they spent all day with them, fawning over their arguments and in awe of their federal majesty. For over six hours, they sat and listened to these congressional goons. Tell me, when was the last time your state senator gave you six hours? One hour? Twenty minutes?
HB 1582 began as a very important bill to protect our freedoms and liberties from an increasingly over-reaching and over-powerful federal regime. The bill will protect us from the federal mandate of a national ID card, to be required for travel within the United States and entry to all federal facilities from airports to the corner post office. I did not believe it possible it could become even more important, but it has done so. Even more important than REAL ID itself is the question of the proper relationship of the state government to its bloated federal counterpart. HB 1582 has become the yardstick by which our state senators will indicate their loyalties. Those that remain faithful to their oath to the New Hampshire Constitution and to the people of this great state must vote in favor of our freedoms, our sovereignty, and our federalist system of limited government. Those that vote against this legislation reveal themselves to stand with Bass, Bradley, and the rest of Congress in opposition to all we revere.
Let the votes be counted, and the names taken down. They are either patriots or traitors. There is no middle ground here.
You should send that letter to the editor.
Tracy
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 26, 2006, 10:21 AM NHFT
This should make the politicos quite happy. ;)
As an ancap, I just want to decrease the consent of the governed. After the bill passes, the popular culture will probably follow it as doctrine -- recent history proves this effect. Through this type of change, consent for the US government will be weakened while consent for the New Hampshire government will be strengthened. If that's what you want, then today is a day to celebrate.
I wonder why, even though we had an acceptable turnout, most people at the protest were our libertarian friends. Where was the general public? Why don't they care?
It's a step in the correct direction.
Tracy
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 26, 2006, 10:21 AM NHFT
I wonder why, even though we had an acceptable turnout, most people at the protest were our libertarian friends. Where was the general public? Why don't they care?
Most of them don't pay attention, and either don't know about it, or are only vaguely aware and don't understand the impact.
Protests like this are designed to inform the general public about the issue, as well as to deliver a message to the politicians.
Kevin
Quote from: Rearden on April 26, 2006, 01:01 PM NHFT
Can anybody tell me the senator who was absent? Or, tell me the names of the senators who were there?
Was Gatsas there? I heard he opposed the bill, but if he was there and voted for it then he's changed his mind, probably as a result of more information.
Wow, three weeks ago I thought this bill was dead, even after it passed the House. I have to give everyone credit for really pushing this bill to the forefront of people's minds. I kind of sat this one out, except for making some phone calls and sending some emails, since I was exhausted from the cigarette bill.
Thanks, everybody. It's not over yet, but I want to tell everyone who has participated how much I appreciate their hard work and time spent on this. WOW!
No, Gatsas isn't on the committee.
Mailing List of Committee Members
Chairman: Sheila Roberge (r)
Vice Chairman: Margaret W. Hassan (d)
John S. Barnes Jr. (r)
Joseph D. Kenney (r)
Andre' Martel (r)
Peter H. Burling (d)
That's 4 rs and 2 ds
Surprised, then twice stunned - all within seconds
(btw this is much more than you need to know, but hey, what the heck.)
So I didn't sleep well, drove to Concord early, at 8:30 I picked a nice sunny spot in front of the State House, on the sidewalk corner where many cars pass with State House plates on them . . . with my tri-corn' hat & brand-new Gadsen flag (I figured my old faded on was not bright enough for today) I engaged in much conversation with folks passing for nearly two hours. The last conversation, with a guy from California who had moved to the Free State ahead of the Project (in 1998) was quite interesting, and he was finally getting around to what he thought was the only real solution to what has become of our country. He said we need to "drop out of the system" - as he did when he moved here. He wondered if I had ever heard of an author who was kind of philosophical and had started objectivism. I told him I was just reminded of part of Atlas Shrugged today with the news of the boys from Washington coming here to twist arms . . .Well it was now 10:20 and I had to go, we exchanged names, and I told him of one way to find and make contact with many of us.
As I entered the State House I was stopped by a fellow asking which room we should be going to for this vote, the security guard was saying that the vote had been on the 10th and that there was no hearing on this today (but that he could be wrong because thing sometimes change) . . . I pointed to 103 and said to the fellow looking for directions "We are going right there." I told him that he should go right in, and that I'd be right back. (I was making a rest stop before getting stuck in a boring committee room for hours.) I saw my state senator and we quickly greeted each other. I rounded the corner to room 103 and everyone was now in the hall. What a surprise!
Then I was sure I heard, "You missed it. They voted 5 - 0, not to pass." I was Stunned!
"Not a single person voted in favor?" I asked. "No," I was was told, "The vote was 5 - 0 that it ought to pass." I was Stunned again! . . .
The sun is now high in the cloudless bright-blue afternoon sky, the flowers are in bloom, a Blue-jay and two Red-winged-Blackbirds just flew by . . .
Turned out to be a very nice day today! Much, much nicer than I ever expected. I think I'll sleep much better tonight. (I sure hope it is this nice again next week.)
I can not say THANK YOU enough to all the guys and gals who made this happen! You are heros!
I know that Gatsas was in the building, because I saw him.
I saw a fellow who (was on the committe the day of the hearing) pass (towards room 103 from the front door) through the crowd of supporters and media after it was over. He seemed to be in a hurry to get there.
I don't know who he is other than to say that he sat on the right side, almost directly across from Sen. Burling, he was probably the heaviest of the bunch and not very tall, and that he left for a short time during the hearing and then came right back.
Not sure if he was the one absent because I was absent for the full 25 seconds also.
Senator Martel was absent.
The folks were in Concord yesterday passing out a letter from Senator Sunnu, basicly saying he was very much against REAL ID.
Know for a fact that each Senator got the letter.
Shoot me, I probably spelled his name wrong! ;D
They passed the bill in committee with a 5-0, unanimous endorcement!
We went in and sat down, standing room only, and they could see us all from the ajoining room. They had a short, whispered conversation about it and then voted on 1582 as fast as they could to get us all out of the room. It's amazing how intimidating a room full of eyes can be. Goes to vote on the senate floor Wed or Thurs of next week. I believe the NHLA has the same plan for those days, meet in the Cafitiria at 9am Wednesday morning.
8)
See we are making progress against the beast .... some of us can't even spell committee .... next we will forget how to spell bureaucracee here in NH. But we do know how to spell and live "Free" :)
Quote from: John on April 26, 2006, 02:08 PM NHFT
I can not say THANK YOU enough to all the guys and gals who made this happen! You are heros!
John, it was worth getting up early today, just to see the 2 rapid-succession shocked looks on your face :)
But... don't thank nobody yet and don't get too happy yet, cause
The Fat Lady ain't sung yet.
Please call your Senator. Please. Please.
Have your friends and neighbors call their Senator.
Next time you buy gas or a cup of coffee, ask the person at the register to call their Senator -- all the contact info is right
here (http://www.granitestateid.com/_dl/nh-no-national-id-flyer-v01-back.pdf), print a few out and carry 'em with you wherever you go!
Don't get too happy yet, cause The Fat Lady ain't sung yet.
Please call your Senator. Please. Please.
Have your friends and neighbors call their Senator.
Next time you buy gas or a cup of coffee, ask the person at the register to call their Senator -- all the contact info is right here (http://www.granitestateid.com/_dl/nh-no-national-id-flyer-v01-back.pdf), print a few out and carry 'em with you wherever you go!
(yeah, I'm crossposting. So sue me)
I am still wearing my "Real ID" .... not! nametag that Sandy made for all of us. I have shed my 666 sticker though.
Anyone got a roll call?
I can be a pessimist sometimes. They knew that it was going to a floor vote in the senate either way they recommended. Do you suspect any of these will change their vote?
Cathleen
Quote from: cathleeninnh on April 26, 2006, 05:02 PM NHFT
I can be a pessimist sometimes. They knew that it was going to a floor vote in the senate either way they recommended. Do you suspect any of these will change their vote?
Cathleen
I was thinking some of the same things.
I just spoke with David Fahrenthold
from the Washington Post for 5 minutes.
He asked about the costumes and props we had on Sat.
He asked why Real ID is so bad when we already have to show ID to travel.
I told him that showing ID to travel reminded me of old WWII movies so I dressed like a Nazi
to illustrate my protest, I also said the Real ID database is worse than
present IDs and a good way to get your identity stolen.
He asked why New Hampshire was the only state opposing Real ID. I said, in
my case, it was because of the FSP.
Hope he mentions FSP in his article.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 26, 2006, 04:09 PM NHFT
8)
See we are making progress against the beast .... some of us can't even spell committee .... next we will forget how to spell bureaucracee here in NH. But we do know how to spell and live "Free" :)
Hey, I'm a dyslexic blond, I'm lucky I can write my name! ^_^
Quote from: cathleeninnh on April 26, 2006, 05:02 PM NHFT
I can be a pessimist sometimes. They knew that it was going to a floor vote in the senate either way they recommended. Do you suspect any of these will change their vote?
Cathleen
There was some discussion about John Barnes, who was against it, but voted for it today. Who knows, I have pretty high hopes for it myself, since the pressure on them seems to be giving them some pause. I know one of the reps fro Keene asked me for one of the no real ID badges, and we got him one! The house passed it pretty overwhelmingly, and if we have a good showing for the floor vote, I think that will say a lot too. These people take notice when the people who vote them in start making a big deal of it. Granted, it could fail, but I really think this one is going to do well, and that can only help enhance the NHLA's standing in Concord. We are making progress.
Quote from: aries on April 26, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Anyone got a roll call?
Well, it was unanimous, which makes it easy :)
All present voted our way:
Sheila Roberge, Chairman
Margaret W. Hassan, V Chairman
John S. Barnes
Joseph D. Kenney
Peter H. Burling
Arrived late, and so did not vote:
Andre' Martel
Quote from: d_goddard on April 26, 2006, 04:15 PM NHFT
John, it was worth getting up early today, just to see the 2 rapid-succession shocked looks on your face :)
But... don't thank nobody yet and don't get too happy yet, cause The Fat Lady ain't sung yet.
;D Well I'm sure glad
you thought that was entertianing. ;D It is a realy good thing that I am healthier (and happier) than before I moved to NH, or I might have had a heart-attack.
Now, make no mistake about this:
these friends of ours, who did the
untold-hours of leg-work, are HEROS! Without them this battle today could have been lost - today.
I will be forever greatful to them; just as I am to others who have (and are) putting all that they can towards our mutual goal of more Liberty in our lifetime.
I'll sleep better tonight because of all the friends I have met since arriveing in New Hampshire.
Quote from: Dreepa on April 26, 2006, 05:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: cathleeninnh on April 26, 2006, 05:02 PM NHFT
Do you suspect any of these will change their vote?
I was thinking some of the same things.
As I understand it (and I'm really new to the whole Concord scene), it's considered a really, really rude thing to change your vote. You better have a damn good reason -- better than "a guy from Washington said I'd never run as a Republican again!"
It's about as damaging as promising you'll pay for lunch next time we go out... and then not having any lunch money next time we go out. You better have a damn good story involving at minimum a sick relative and an unexpected pregnancy!
Now, who's calling Free Talk Live (1-800-259-9231) tonight?
'nother topic merge.
Since I don't believe anyone has posted Joel's note I will here.
Thinking it might be something to read on the radio show tonight.
Pretty much believe Joel sums up todays activites much better than
I could have.
At 10am we gathered at the State House, more than 2 dozen concerned
citizens and activists. Within a few minutes the seats in the room
were filled. For some people, it was their first trip to the State
house, others had been visiting for years. We all sat together,
waiting for the committee to arrive.
When they did, their faces flashed surprise at the sheer number of
people there. Seated behind their tables, the senators hurriedly
discussed the situation. Was this level of concerned citizenry
unprecedented? No. Was it unusual? Most certainly.
Sen. Roberge called the Executive Session to order. She announced that
HB1582 would be dealt with first. Along one wall, a radio reporter
hastily readied his equipment to record what would surely be a heated
debate. Senator Peter Burling spoke first, "Madam Chair, I move Ought
To Pass on HB1582."
"Second," said committee vice-chair Senator Hassen. Everyone waited
for discussion.
But there was none. The roll was called. Burling, Hassen, Barnes,
Kenney, Roberge. All voted in favor of the motion. By unanimous
consent, the committee recommended OTP on HB1582!
Sen. Roberge announced the good news, a broad smile on her face.
"That's it," she told the crowd. "Thanks for coming."
Breaking from protocol, we spoke to the committee as we left the room.
"Thank you," we said. We shuffled out into the hall, still not sure
what had happened. We'd hoped for a 4-2 victory - 5-0 was totally
unexpected!
Outside in the hall, the reporters were just arriving. They too, had
expected a long debate. We spoke to the press for a few minutes before
leaving the building. In front of the State House, the air seemed
better, seemed fresher than usual. Maybe it was the sense of teamwork.
Maybe it was the victory. Maybe it was the hope that New Hampshire
might be be free from the REAL ID act, and that the resulting wave of
freedom would sweep across the country.
Do you have a minute to thank the committee members? You can call them
at -
Jack Barnes - (H) 895-9352
(O) 271-3042
Peter Burling - (H) 675-6255
(O) 271-3067
Maggie Hassen - (H) 772-4187
(O) 271-2118
Joseph Kenney - (H) 473-2569
(O) 271-3092
Sheila Roberge - (H) 472-8391
(O) 271-4152
Their votes next week are not certain- they could vote either way.
Anything can happen in the Senate. If you can take a few minutes to
leave them a message thanking them for supporting HB1582, it would
certainly help. Then, call your own senator, and ask them to support
the committee recommendation on HB1582 and keep us out of REAL ID.
The battle is not over - in one week, the whole Senate will debate and
vote on the REAL ID Act. Rather then resting on our laurels, we must
double our efforts. We must turn out hundreds of constituent phone
calls in this next week. This issue is generating many news stories;
we must ride that wave and write letters to the editor to our local
newspapers. We must keep up the public pressure for the next week!
Please, contact everyone you know in New Hampshire and send them to the
GraniteStateID.com website. Encourage them to call and email their
senators (phone calls are best). Together, we can make this happen!
If you get a sense of how your senator will vote, please let us know at
info@granitestateid.com
One last item; the AP has picked up this story; (
http://snipurl.com/pppi ) reporters from the Washington Post were at
the hearing today. We will make national news when we succeed; but
that can only happen if you take action!
Thanks for all your hard work,
Joel Winters
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2006/04/26/committee_endorses_anti_real_id_bill/
Also, we're getting some national coverage... those who have contacted the media, you are Liberty Heroes!
http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&ned=&q=real-id
QUESTION - when this passes, will police in other states not be able to run our IDs as they can now?
Just curious.
Quote from: aries on April 26, 2006, 07:29 PM NHFT
QUESTION - when this passes, will police in other states not be able to run our IDs as they can now?
Just curious.
No disrespect intented, but when you have an advantage as we have now, you press it. You continue on our present course until the Senate passes NH1582, then the governor signs it. Don't deviate from the course. We are not there yet. Once we are then we weigh our options.
In plan and simple words: "Don't count your chickens before the hatch. ;)" We are close, but we are not there yet. We must keep pushing and hoping for a victory! ;D
Quote from: Rearden on April 26, 2006, 04:46 AM NHFT
According to Associated Press reports, the House Judiciary Committee sent two staff members to Concord yesterday.
I can't find this report mentioned anywhere. Where did you find it?
I don't believe you made it up to enflame our anger, but if you did it really worked!
I called Senator Eaton and gave his message machine quite a rant this morning. :hopmad:
Check out the AP article that is part of the post I copied from Joel,
it is in that article. Also I talked the several of the folks who were passing
out Sunni's letter Tuesday who also confirmed them being there.
Hey can anybody help me out with the editing process that is likely to go late into the wee hours.
I can't locate my copy of the names and titles of the speakers from the rally. I need to low third cg their names and titles on them.
Thanks
The piece is coming in at a little under 7.5 minutes... had some really challenges dealing with poor audio due to background noise (please no generators ;D).
Although if I can ever get some wireless audio gear a lot of this stuff would work out easier.
I fully expect that these dirty-rotten-arm-twisting-goons from Washington reached well beond this small committee. These Fuckers are here! We know they reached much deeper into our small New Hampshire senate. Some spent at least a full day (which we know of) taking up the time of at least one senator in a "leadership" position. Folks from New Hampshire could not even visit with him while the federal intruders were with him.
These Washington boys were not sent here as rockies, I'm sure. And, they did not come here to take this committe vote as the answer to their plans for us. Do you think they just came here for the day and then went away? Do you think that they then all-of-a-sudden decided that they would respect our independent-minded culture?
I think that they are still here working the senate - and begining to work on Governor Lynch at the same time.
Today was a very nice day, and these fuckers from Washington can not be happy with us for that!
(I have to go work many, many long hours and earn some money for the next 7 days. Sorry, but if I don't pay the rent and can't eat, I can't do any of this. While at work, I will schedual some vacation time for the week before the next election.) I will never forget 1582. (Final thought: We need a strong candidate for the US Senate in November of 2010.)
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 26, 2006, 08:50 PM NHFT
Hey can anybody help me out with the editing process that is likely to go late into the wee hours.
I can't locate my copy of the names and titles of the speakers from the rally. I need to low third cg their names and titles on them.
Thanks
From my press kit:
http://www.fcsbrookline.com/files/Rally-Speaker-Bios.pdf
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 26, 2006, 09:50 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 26, 2006, 08:50 PM NHFT
Hey can anybody help me out with the editing process that is likely to go late into the wee hours.
I can't locate my copy of the names and titles of the speakers from the rally. I need to low third cg their names and titles on them.
Thanks
From my press kit:
http://www.fcsbrookline.com/files/Rally-Speaker-Bios.pdf
Thanks Mike you're a life saver (or at least a sanity saver ;D)
A nice orderly march to the gas chamber is much preferable to violent revolution. Rationally speaking of course.
http://www.wcax.com/Global/story.asp?S=4823814&nav=4QcS
CONCORD, N.H. Governor John Lynch said today that he will sign a bill
that would bar New Hampshire from adopting strict new federal
standards for drivers' licenses, if the Legislature passes it.
The bill passed the House last month and was recommended by a state
Senate committee today. It will go before the full Senate in two weeks.
The bill put New Hampshire at the forefront of opposition to the
federal Real I-D Act, which critics say is really a national
identification card system that could allow the government to track
law-abiding citizens.
Supporters of the law, including U-S Senator Judd Gregg, say New
Hampshire is already doing most of the things required by Real I-D.
Gregg says if New Hampshire refuses to participate, state residents
will have a much harder time boarding airplanes and entering federal
buildings.
Tunga wonders if the folks building the camps for Haliburton are doing the jobs Americans won't do.
Do you think they'll be ready by summer?!!? I so totally can't wait.
Quote from: katdillon on April 27, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
Supporters of the law, including U-S Senator Judd Gregg, say New
Hampshire is already doing most of the things required by Real I-D.
Gregg says if New Hampshire refuses to participate, state residents
will have a much harder time boarding airplanes and entering federal
buildings.
Acctually, I bet it will embolden other states to follow suit and the Fed will just have to abandon the whole idea....for a time...I hope...a lot of hope is going into this thought...adding a little more hope... ^_^
I talked to the Washington Post guy also, since someone said it would help.
Quote from: Fake Senator Judd Gregg
if New Hampshire refuses to participate, state residents
will have a much harder time boarding airplanes and entering federal
buildings.
Why would anyone want to enter a federal building? (I mean without massive amounts of explosives ready to go off >:D)
Quote from: Ron Helwig on April 27, 2006, 09:05 AM NHFT
Why would anyone want to enter a federal building?
To mail a letter at the post office, enjoy a national park...
In fact, the REAL ID is far more vague:
Quote
(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use-
(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.
(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary of Transportation. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may prescribe by regulation.
Full Text: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:3:./temp/~c109ribskD:e46432:
The non-REAL ID card may not be accepted for "official federal use", as defined by the DHS. Post offices, national parks, federal court houses, IRS audits, use of Interstate and Federally funded highways, enrolling your child in a public school that receives federal money. The more you think about it, the scarrier it gets.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on April 27, 2006, 09:23 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ron Helwig on April 27, 2006, 09:05 AM NHFT
Why would anyone want to enter a federal building?
To mail a letter at the post office, enjoy a national park...
I've never had to show an ID to enter my post office . . . I would read that to be anywhere currently asking for ID to enter. Since you don't need ID at the airport now, they'd have to make a new law to force you to show ID.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on April 27, 2006, 09:23 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ron Helwig on April 27, 2006, 09:05 AM NHFT
Why would anyone want to enter a federal building?
To mail a letter at the post office, enjoy a national park...
In fact, the REAL ID is far more vague:
Quote
(a) Minimum Standards for Federal Use-
(1) IN GENERAL- Beginning 3 years after the date of the enactment of this Act, a Federal agency may not accept, for any official purpose, a driver's license or identification card issued by a State to any person unless the State is meeting the requirements of this section.
(2) STATE CERTIFICATIONS- The Secretary shall determine whether a State is meeting the requirements of this section based on certifications made by the State to the Secretary of Transportation. Such certifications shall be made at such times and in such manner as the Secretary of Transportation, in consultation with the Secretary of Homeland Security, may prescribe by regulation.
Full Text: http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/F?c109:3:./temp/~c109ribskD:e46432:
The non-REAL ID card may not be accepted for "official federal use", as defined by the DHS. Post offices, national parks, federal court houses, IRS audits, use of Interstate and Federally funded highways, enrolling your child in a public school that receives federal money. The more you think about it, the scarrier it gets.
Just more reasons to oppose Real-ID
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 27, 2006, 09:27 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on April 27, 2006, 09:23 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ron Helwig on April 27, 2006, 09:05 AM NHFT
Why would anyone want to enter a federal building?
To mail a letter at the post office, enjoy a national park...
I've never had to show an ID to enter my post office . . . I would read that to be anywhere currently asking for ID to enter. Since you don't need ID at the airport now, they'd have to make a new law to force you to show ID.
You must show your ID to pick up a certified letter.
In any case, once REAL ID is established, I expect many new ID requirements to appear, especially if New Hampshire stands alone and DHS decides to play hardball.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on April 27, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 27, 2006, 09:27 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on April 27, 2006, 09:23 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ron Helwig on April 27, 2006, 09:05 AM NHFT
Why would anyone want to enter a federal building?
To mail a letter at the post office, enjoy a national park...
I've never had to show an ID to enter my post office . . . I would read that to be anywhere currently asking for ID to enter. Since you don't need ID at the airport now, they'd have to make a new law to force you to show ID.
You must show your ID to pick up a certified letter.
In any case, once REAL ID is established, I expect many new ID requirements to appear, especially if New Hampshire stands alone and DHS decides to play hardball.
It seems to me like this can work against the feds too. The vast majority of people who work in federal buildings that are located in NH also live in NH. And if they live in NH then they won?t have ID, thus they won?t be employable, thus all the federal agencies would have to close shop. Or am I missing something? It seems to me like the feds are going to have back down, at least to a point, if this passes.
Burned the midnight oil and got a video together from the event.
A little rough, would have liked to had more time. The page will need to have text and links added (when I catch back up on everything else). If anyone feels like writing a synposis of the rally and the coalition that made it happen, that would be great.
Have at it and let us know how folks reaction to it... certainly a different tone then the Concord media coverage. ;D
http://www.politicalgraffiti.com/no_national_id
Now if someone that knows how can put that on google video we can start using it on our myspace pages :)
I can do that.
Woo hoo!
I've uploaded it. It usually takes a while before they approve it.
I deleted Quicktime because the viewable window is so small and it took over my file associations without my permission. A buddy of mine did the same thing. Any other file type available?
I wound up not able to watch it. Tried on two different computers and all I can see is white screen. Guess I should have looked at it before uploading it.
It worked great and there is nothing wrong with quicktime. It is funny to watch older and smarter people have computer problems while I don't have any :)
I loved the video. Really good to end with the state rep. Also, posting all of the websites was cool. It could have started with text on the screen that says the time date location and that 200 people were there, though.
Quote from: TN-FSP on April 27, 2006, 12:46 PM NHFT
It worked great and there is nothing wrong with quicktime. It is funny to watch older and smarter people have computer problems while I don't have any :)
That's funny Keith, I feel the same way! I had it loaded up for years and when called for, I watched the tiny 2" videos. When I got my latest computer, they pissed me off by not asking me about file associations in the custom setup. Delete. ;D
Quote from: katdillon on April 27, 2006, 12:39 PM NHFT
I wound up not able to watch it. Tried on two different computers and all I can see is white screen. Guess I should have looked at it before uploading it.
Sorry Kat... I think there is an issue because it doesn't load consistently for me off the webpage.
Sometimes fine sometimes whitescreen.
It may be OK on google...they have their own player.
When it is loading if I get the whitescreen when I refresh it works right.
(Another one of the querkie things I got to figure out in this weird ass medium... All the different formats and they are new ones every year... what's a poor old editor to do?)
updates
Just thought if you right click the download button you can save the file and I think that might get around what ever gremlin the browser player etc. are doing.
When I check the site statistics it looks like most people are getting the whole file so I think that showes it is working in most cases (?)
Damn somebody tell me about what they saw... (I really wanted Kat to see it :( )
Looks like you used the H.264 video compressor, which is not included in free QuickTime, just QuickTime Pro.
Correction: it does work with QuickTime 7.0, but this is the one they bundle with iTunes and it overwrites your file associations.
Quote from: toowm on April 27, 2006, 01:33 PM NHFT
Looks like you used the H.264 video compressor, which is not included in free QuickTime, just QuickTime Pro.
Correction: it does work with QuickTime 7.0, but this is the one they bundle with iTunes and it overwrites your file associations.
So the battle between the computer companies gets in the way of us all just getting along :( :)
Somebody who viewed it give me feedback :D
Quote from: toowm on April 27, 2006, 01:33 PM NHFT
Looks like you used the H.264 video compressor, which is not included in free QuickTime, just QuickTime Pro.
Correction: it does work with QuickTime 7.0, but this is the one they bundle with iTunes and it overwrites your file associations.
Yes toowm, that must have been it for me because I downloaded Donald Fagen's new single from iTunes recently and to do so, I had to download their program(s). >:D
GREAT NEWS!!!!!!!!!!! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D
Lynch says he WILL sign HB1582 (http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Lynch+says+he+will+sign+bill+opposing+Real+ID&articleId=b7a5421e-89d9-4f2c-87a9-8e07d951a1ce) if the Senate passes it!!!!!
That means the full Senate is the ONLY hurdle left!
BOO YAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
JM
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 27, 2006, 01:48 PM NHFT
Somebody who viewed it give me feedback :D
I downloaded and watched it, it worked fine.
The video itself is *awesome*
In a few weeks, I'll be putting together an updated FSP DVD for PorcFest; this video is so totally going to be on that disc! :D
Quote from: toowm on April 27, 2006, 01:33 PM NHFT
Looks like you used the H.264 video compressor, which is not included in free QuickTime, just QuickTime Pro.
Correction: it does work with QuickTime 7.0, but this is the one they bundle with iTunes and it overwrites your file associations.
There is a free QuickTime Alternative that I use. Anyone that wants it, shoot me an email and I will send it to you.
It blows up my "totem" player.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 27, 2006, 03:10 PM NHFT
It blows up my "totem" player.
:'(
Guess I'll have to come up with an alternative...
Glad some folks are viewing the content. :)
Quote from: d_goddard on April 27, 2006, 02:50 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 27, 2006, 01:48 PM NHFT
Somebody who viewed it give me feedback :D
I downloaded and watched it, it worked fine.
The video itself is *awesome*
In a few weeks, I'll be putting together an updated FSP DVD for PorcFest; this video is so totally going to be on that disc! :D
Cool glad you liked it... hope Sandy can view it... I included a cutaway shot of her cause she says nobody seems to be able to capture her image (vampiress and all).
The music I made with GarageBand... it was one of the more optimistic pieces I had created. Thanks to all ya'll's efforts I am feeling more optimistic lately... hey maybe we can make a difference. :)
I was able to watch the video no problem. I'm currently uploading the video, I credited Roger Grant and linked to Politicalgraffiti. I also included "for more information visit" and included links to nhfree, granitestateid, nhcaspian and fsp.
Quote from: TN-FSP on April 27, 2006, 12:46 PM NHFT
It worked great and there is nothing wrong with quicktime. It is funny to watch older and smarter people have computer problems while I don't have any :)
I loved the video. Really good to end with the state rep. Also, posting all of the websites was cool. It could have started with text on the screen that says the time date location and that 200 people were there, though.
Yeah I was kind of thinking the webpage could set the video up... plus I guess at 3:30 this morning I was out of juice. Maybe when the dust settles and we know the outcome of the effort, with some input I could make an updated version. I'm not the wordsmith... in the professional enviroment you got producers and a whole slew of folks feeding you stuff.
They asked for something right away... I'm pleased with 12 hours from request to edited piece. Sometimes under pressure I do my best editing cause you have to just go with your gut and not second guess.
Hey thanks for the feedback. :)
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on April 27, 2006, 03:29 PM NHFT
I was able to watch the video no problem. I'm currently uploading the video, I credited Roger Grant and linked to Politicalgraffiti. I also included "for more information visit" and included links to nhfree, granitestateid, nhcaspian and fsp.
Thanks 8)
I'll be watching the statistics on the site and it will be fun to see where this piece is linked to from.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8307405023976923577
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 27, 2006, 03:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 27, 2006, 03:10 PM NHFT
It blows up my "totem" player.
:'(
Guess I'll have to come up with an alternative...
I have been able to watch all the rest of your .mov files.
We're sorry, but this video may not be available.
/shrug...that's where google told me the file was.
I grabbed Quicktime because I just had to see this video!
Excellent job Roger!
Quote from: russellkanning on April 27, 2006, 03:58 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 27, 2006, 03:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 27, 2006, 03:10 PM NHFT
It blows up my "totem" player.
:'(
Guess I'll have to come up with an alternative...
I have been able to watch all the rest of your .mov files.
Yeah, my Quicktime was updated to version 7 and their lastest gee whiz codec makes for a nice compression.... but if people can't see it it ain't much good.
Hang on Russell I'll get another version soon... although even after I get another version I'll have to drive 15 miles and get my cohort to upload it, that's what I call a slow connection. ;D
Quote from: katdillon on April 27, 2006, 03:57 PM NHFT
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8307405023976923577
This one worked for me, on the third try.
Nicely Done, Roger!
Sandy looked great. So did all the speakers. Some of Katherine's audio was difficult to hear, but overall it looks professional to me. Loved the ending music.
:notworthy:
Russell, I was able to watch the video without any problems using Xine. It's possible that you might just need to update the codecs for totem. Xine and most of the other linux players use pretty much the same codec libraries, so if it works under Xine for me i'm sure it shouldn't be hard to get it to work with totem. I can lookup the download place for the codecs but I believe it's on MPlayers website, at least I'm pretty sure that's where I got my codecs for Xine.
Edit:
In case this helps, when i look at the properties for the video from Xine it shows the following:
System Layer: MOV/MPEG-4
Video Codec: H.264/AVC (ffmpeg)
Anyways, i'm sure you just need to update something and it should work. Worst case you can just install Xine and see if that works. Good luck!
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on April 27, 2006, 05:21 PM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 27, 2006, 03:57 PM NHFT
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8307405023976923577
This one worked for me, on the third try.
Nicely Done, Roger!
Sandy looked great. So did all the speakers. Some of Katherine's audio was difficult to hear, but overall it looks professional to me. Loved the ending music.
:notworthy:
Thanks Lauren you guys looked cool goose stepping. :)
Yeah the audio was rough, I need wireless... otherwise I'd have to be tethered by a cable. It was tough for me not having better audio of everything.
The Candid World crew has much better audio I am quite sure. A soundman with a good directional microphone and a wind noise reducing blimp. We can look forward to their documentary. :)
Our friendly neighborhood socialist here in Keene is already thinking of moving to VT.
Roger, I can view the google version. Excellent! I love it! And good catch on the lovely but elusive Sandy ;D
She was wearing one of those crazy uncle sam hats at the start .... Sandy must not have been trying too hard to hide.
8) about the Senators not giving in to Washington pressure.
Great work Roger!
I had no problem viewing this on the Google link (and I know nothing about all that computer stuff you guys are talking about.) I just clicked on it and WOW there it is.
Yeah, there was a nice shot of a certain gadsen flag waver :)
Great I'm glad you guys liked it... :)
As Joel said 'there is a lot of energy' I just tried to capture it.
John's flag expressed that well.
I also liked Russell's smile and wave followed by the guy with the baby. We can show that we aren't a bunch of meanies. I think that reporters like the young women from the Concord Monitor can't understand our view because we often express what we don't like... ie.negatives. It is tough to get our message through that filter.
Burning a disk to take to my buddies to upload a different codec version. I called a guy I used to work with that is an expert on the latest compression video stuff and got a little more insight. Also I'm going to try to provide a version for the folks at granitestateid.com to make available for media to use if they want footage of the rally.
I sent the movie to Alex Jones.
Great job.
I just watched on Google.
I think you are right Roger... I am starting to get optimistic!!! ;D
Quote from: Rearden on April 28, 2006, 02:11 AM NHFT
I talked to Senator Martel today, and he confirmed that he wants the bill to pass
The latest Senate Journal (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/scaljourns/Calendars/2006/SC%2017.pdf) shows that 1582 came out of committee OTP
6-0. I assume Martel's "yes" vote was appended after the fact.
Which means, we now need 7 more Senators firmly on our side.
Quote from: Rearden on April 28, 2006, 02:11 AM NHFT
Attention socialists: this is your wakeup call. Put your house on the market and move back to Massachusetts or California or whatever hellhole you crawled out of, or resign yourself to a life of freedom and individual responsibilty. The choice is yours. ;D
Hell heah!
You know, your quote above would make for one hell of a stump speech... sure would play well to folks here in New Hampshaa ;)
Youtube link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzL6jpMPRU
Took a while to show up after I uploaded.
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on April 28, 2006, 11:10 AM NHFT
Youtube link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzL6jpMPRU
Took a while to show up after I uploaded.
8) more people will see the activists in New Hampshire making a difference.
The google version is linked to from the FSP site homepage.
And Denis I see what you've been up to... ;D Getting hits from your links. :)
Hey I really like Friday Jone's write-up on the event.
New Hampshire Statehouse Rally to Oppose National IDhttp://www.freestateobserver.com/?p=88 (http://www.freestateobserver.com/?p=88)
Quote from: Roger Grant on April 28, 2006, 12:29 PM NHFT
And Denis I see what you've been up to... ;D Getting hits from your links. :)
I'm just following the excellent advice of DadaOrwell:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=2613.msg54879#msg54879
I would highly recommend everyone who can, pick a few web forums off the list in the message above, create an account, surf around and see if there's been a "news release" on that forum yet. If so, write a follow-up! If not, post one, with some links to Roger's video, and/or your favorite NH Freedom links!
This is called "guerilla marketing" in the advertising business, and it's very powerful...
Quote from: d_goddard on April 28, 2006, 09:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: Rearden on April 28, 2006, 02:11 AM NHFT
I talked to Senator Martel today, and he confirmed that he wants the bill to pass
The latest Senate Journal (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/scaljourns/Calendars/2006/SC%2017.pdf) shows that 1582 came out of committee OTP 6-0. I assume Martel's "yes" vote was appended after the fact.
Which means, we now need 7 more Senators firmly on our side.
Quote from: Rearden on April 28, 2006, 02:11 AM NHFT
Attention socialists: this is your wakeup call. Put your house on the market and move back to Massachusetts or California or whatever hellhole you crawled out of, or resign yourself to a life of freedom and individual responsibilty. The choice is yours. ;D
Hell heah!
You know, your quote above would make for one hell of a stump speech... sure would play well to folks here in New Hampshaa ;)
Docket:
4/26/2006 S Committee Report; Ought to Pass [05/03/06]
Appears to be scheduled for floor vote on Wednesday, May 3.
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on April 28, 2006, 11:10 AM NHFT
Youtube link is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLzL6jpMPRU
Took a while to show up after I uploaded.
Hey, that link works! Good video, especialy since it shows some speakers I didn't get to see. ^_^
What time wednesday?Will it be at the state house?Should we show up? ???
Senate session starts at 10:00AM. Cafeteria at 8:30-9:00?
We are finding out that what we where afraid of is true! The Senate committee voted the way they did to get rid of HB1582! We need everyone to call their senator and get out there and get others to call!
The Feds want this for "emergency" situations and we all know what that means but the sheep don't!
I have a file I can send with the flyer and all the senators info for anyone willing to print them out and get out there, even if you can only spend a few minutes it will count everything counts at this point!!
Please Help! We have never faced anything bigger!!
Post everywhere....talk to everyone you can...recruit others...we are in the last hours!! The senate will hear this bill next week Wednesday is what we have been told!!
It's a good thing to show up, preferably in a suite, preferably with "No Real-ID" badge if you have one.
Not so much to affect the outcome, but to make the statement that, win or lose, it's an issue that brought The People to The House.
I handed out a big stack of flyers today.
Keep calling, emailing, LTE writing...
They had a room full of opponents and indications that a roll call is inevitable on the floor of the senate. They saved their hide in the moment.
Cathleen
They wanted it out of committee fast and want to leave it up to the full senate. Remember this is politics and there is no true reason to it!
The plan is to show up Tues and Wed morning from 7:30am - 9:30am and stand near the parking garage holding signs...It would be cool if some where home made and said "I will not vote for anyone who supports Real ID" If we could get a couple of dozen people to do this it will speak to them.
I have to get to work, now and would love it if someone could take up organizing this for me. Please e-mail me if you can help. On Wed we will all go in and sit in the galley to watch the vote, we have reason to believe it will be the first one of the day about 10am.
Remember be nice, the reason the smoking bill failed was because they got nasty with the Senators and lost them with that and form letters. If we are nice they can't get mad at us and it makes it harder to go against us and with washington.
Quote from: ravelkinbow on April 29, 2006, 04:38 PM NHFT
They wanted it out of committee fast and want to leave it up to the full senate. Remember this is politics and there is no true reason to it!
If they wanted it out so fast, why not a 5-0 ITL?
because of us and the press, killing it on the floor doesn't kill the senators in the committee, the other way it makes them look bad
I'll have many days off right before next election day, and I intend to do most of my work on those days based upon this vote. I very much look forward to supporting those who do the right thing!
I'm thinking that there will be a roll call vote - and that the results will NEVER, EVER be forgotten. (So, future elections will be influenced as well.)
I can agree-to-disagree on a lot of things. THIS AIN"T ONE OF THEM!
If I can make it Wednesday, I'll be carying/flying a brand new New Hampshire state flag (rather than the Gadsen.) If it does not happen until Thursday I'll be there bright and early.
Quote from: John on April 30, 2006, 05:30 AM NHFT
If I can make it Wednesday, I'll be carying/flying a brand new New Hampshire state flag (rather than the Gadsen.) If it does not happen until Thursday I'll be there bright and early.
Tuesday (tomorrow) is possibly the most important day to be there. That gives the Senators more time to notice & think about all these people who are watching this vote closely!
I like simple "Yes on 1582" signs.
The fact that we'll be watching the roll call carefully and taking action accordingly is implicit in the fact that we're taking the time to show up with the signs. Senators understand that plenty well :)
Roger's movie is linked on Free Market News Network:
http://www.fmnn.com/Analysis/139/4703/2006-05-01.asp?wid=139&nid=4703
8)
And it's everyone who made it happens movie...
combat cameraman/editor is all I am
I'll follow ya'll... hope the path leads to a brighter future for my son (NH native).
Alright I don't know if it's buried in this thread but I've never done this before so could somebody help me:
My friend and I are going to go down to Concord with some signs.
1) Where should we park?
2) When should we be there?
3) Where do we go?
I suppose I'll want to meet up with some of you guys there.
But we will be able to go! :)
Quote from: aries on May 01, 2006, 03:25 PM NHFT
My friend and I are going to go down to Concord with some signs.
Groovy!!
Please wear a big red hat so I will know you are the guy who posts are "Aries" :D
Quote from: aries on May 01, 2006, 03:25 PM NHFT
1) Where should we park?
I recommend the municipal parking garage at the intersection of School and Green streets.
Bring about $5.00 in change to be on the safe side.
Quote from: aries on May 01, 2006, 03:25 PM NHFT
2) When should we be there?
7:30 AM would be ideal; the idea is to have the signs up as the Senators drive in, and they start trickling in by 7:45 (though most don't show up till 8:00 or 8:30)
Quote from: aries on May 01, 2006, 03:25 PM NHFT
3) Where do we go?
Good question. I expect we'll be pretty visible, since that's the whole idea :)
PM me and I'll give you my cell#
Word I get the folks will be meeting on the steps or entrance to the Legislature. Big building with a gold dome on top, can't really miss it. :)
Gold dome on top - State House.
Behind the State House - Legislative Office Building.
Which is it?
Pat...Both the House and Senate assemble in the Big Building with the Gold Dome on top to do their voting! That is were the folks will be, outside, then move the the Senate gallery to watch the vote. The Legislative Office Building in the back is were the House has it's hearing.
Please excuse, if my directions were not understandable. :)
But d_goddard was talking Tuesday. The Senate is not meeting in session on Tuesday.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 01, 2006, 06:59 PM NHFT
But d_goddard was talking Tuesday.
You can call me Denis :)
I figure the idea is to be visible as the Senators drive in to the House, so we'll be visible, only 2-3 places we are likely to be :)
Jenn/ravelkinbow is pretty much organizing this thing, so I'll let her pick the place, but I assume it'll be either:
a) in front of the big-gold-dome building
b) on the sidewalk behind the State House and the LOB (ie, back of the Big-Gold-Dome thingy)
c) at the municipal parking garage at the intersection between School and Green streets
ID Law Stirs Passionate Protest in N.H.
With Costumes and Quotations, State Opposes Federal Plan
By David A. Fahrenthold
Washington Post Staff Writer
Monday, May 1, 2006; A05
CONCORD, N.H. -- Those concerned about a new federal plan to overhaul the issuing of driver's licenses have two fairly distinct ways of showing it. One of them involves task forces, letter-writing and groups such as the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators. The other involves protesters dressed like Nazis and politicians quoting Patrick Henry.
Anyone familiar with the revolution-tinged politics of New Hampshire can guess which one is happening here.
"The war on our civil liberties is actually begun," New Hampshire state Rep. Neal M. Kurk (R) told his colleagues recently, borrowing from Henry's famous "Liberty or Death" speech to condemn the license plan and the U.S. government in place of the British crown. He continued: "Is life so dear, or peace so sweet, as to be purchased at the price of chains and slavery?"
Now, this state legislature is poised to formally reject the new license rules, which are aimed at screening out terrorists and illegal immigrants, but have been criticized as a logistical nightmare and the beginning of a national ID card. As a political circus has unfolded here in Concord, everyone, including libertarians, evangelical Christians and state bureaucrats, has been paying attention.
"Everybody's watching," said Jim Harper at the Cato Institute in Washington, who objects to the new rules as a federal intrusion into personal privacy. His hope: "Even one state refusing to participate basically will cause the system to crumble."
The controversy in New Hampshire surrounds a federal law called the Real ID Act, which was approved last year after it was tacked on to a bill funding the war in Iraq and relief for tsunami victims. Its principal backer, Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner Jr. (R-Wis.), said he wanted to close the kinds of loopholes that allowed some of the Sept. 11, 2001, hijackers to obtain official identification.
The bill requires states to check whether driver's license applicants are in the country legally, and to require documents showing their birth date, Social Security number and home address. The act also requires that states find a way to verify that the documents are valid.
The deadline is May 2008. If states cannot meet the new requirements by then, the bill says, their licenses may not be accepted as identification at airport security screenings, federal buildings and nuclear plants.
Groups of state-level officials have protested that the act requires sophisticated computer networks that don't exist now and that meeting the deadline could be overwhelmingly expensive or simply impossible.
For now, their criticism has been measured while they wait for the Department of Homeland Security to work out key details of the license plan. It's still unclear, for instance, whether drivers who have a license already will have to be rescreened, or whether there will need to be a single federal computer database containing everyone's license information.
New Hampshire, though, is not the waiting kind of state.
In January, several legislators here introduced a bill that called the Real ID measure "contrary and repugnant" to both the U.S. and New Hampshire constitutions, and vowed that "New Hampshire shall not participate in a national identification card system."
At first, the bill seemed destined to fail, voted down in committee. But then, in early March, Kurk stood up to defend it on the House floor, citing the new federal rules as the beginning of creeping federal intrusions.
"We care more for our liberties than to meekly hand over to the federal government the potential to enumerate, track, identify and eventually control," he said, before quoting Henry and his state's defiant motto, "Live Free or Die."
That brought the house down, and the bill up: State representatives voted 217 to 84 in favor.
Emboldened by that success, groups opposed to Real ID staged a rally in late April in front of the statehouse where, according to a report in the Concord Monitor, some wore "666" on their foreheads -- indicating their belief that a national system of rules for driver's licenses is a step toward the "mark of the beast" prophesied in the Book of Revelation.
Lauren Canario dressed up in a Nazi-esque khaki uniform and helped run a fake checkpoint where she demanded people's identification.
Real ID "sounds a lot like the old Nazi movies, and we just wanted to illustrate that," she said in an interview last week.
Someplace else, a movement with this kind of stagecraft might be on the political fringe. Here, it has momentum: A spokeswoman for Gov. John Lynch (D) said this week that he will sign the anti-Real ID bill if it gets to him. And on Wednesday morning, a Senate committee unanimously approved the bill, electrifying its supporters in the audience. "This is a wave of freedom that's going to roll across the country," Joel Winters, a leader in the Real ID opposition movement, said afterward.
First, though, it has to roll across the full New Hampshire Senate. There, Senate President Theodore L. Gatsas (R) said he's worried about what will happen if the rest of the country doesn't follow New Hampshire's lead and his state's residents suddenly need a passport to get on domestic flights.
Arguments against the new federal licensing rules "are great things to say," said Gatsas. "But it's an awful jeopardy to put the state in."
The article was good. What is with Gatsas? Is he a one-worlder in disguise? Sounds like he is spineless.
Alright so I got directions for where to park. I'll leave around 5:30, so I can be there by 7 and find parking and whatnot.
Me and my friend (who is most likely coming, but if all else fails I will be there alone) will be bringing signs with yet-to-be-determined slogans on them.
I'll give Denis a call if I can't find anyone else there, and find everyone else.
My car will be the one with the thinklibertarian and NHFREE.com bumper stickers ;)
I am going to try and be there.
I will see if I can get there about 7:15am or so.
Not to rain on your parade, but my local House rep (who I've found to have a pretty good hand on the pulse of the reps) tells me that there is very, very little chance of it passing. She said call Tom Eaton. Perhaps he still has enough influence to help, if he chooses to.
Caleb
Quote from: katdillon on April 27, 2006, 03:57 PM NHFT
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8307405023976923577
Thank God, finally a version of the video I can watch.
Roger, it looks great!! Thank you so much for producing it on such short notice, and for sacrificing both work and sleep hours to finish it for your friends in New Hampshire. Ya know, it's not too late to join the Free State Project.. ;)
Also, thanks for including me in the video. Actually, it's like a Who's Who of FSP early movers. Years from now we'll be boring the newbies, making them watch our RealID video from the spring of ought six. :)
[Do you ever have deja vu? ;) ;) "Just put your little hand in mine, together there's no mountain we can't climb........."]
oh yeah back in ought six there were only a couple of hundred of us. We had to fight to get laws changed. Now that there are 5000, man you can just call our 10 reps in the house. ;)
Quote from: d_goddard on May 01, 2006, 07:18 PM NHFT
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 01, 2006, 06:59 PM NHFT
But d_goddard was talking Tuesday.
You can call me Denis :)
I didn't know know how many 'n's ;D
Quote
I figure the idea is to be visible as the Senators drive in to the House, so we'll be visible, only 2-3 places we are likely to be :)
Jenn/ravelkinbow is pretty much organizing this thing, so I'll let her pick the place, but I assume it'll be either:
a) in front of the big-gold-dome building
b) on the sidewalk behind the State House and the LOB (ie, back of the Big-Gold-Dome thingy)
c) at the municipal parking garage at the intersection between School and Green streets
The Senators don't use that garage, do they? They have the garage attached to the LOB. I know the Reps use the garage over Storrs St behind the museum. And then there are the spots along Park St and N. State St.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 01, 2006, 10:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 01, 2006, 07:18 PM NHFT
You can call me Denis :)
I didn't know know how many 'n's ;D
It's phonetic, just like "Pattt".
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 01, 2006, 10:39 PM NHFT
The Senators don't use that garage, do they? They have the garage attached to the LOB. I know the Reps use the garage over Storrs St behind the museum. And then there are the spots along Park St and N. State St.
Aha! I knew I must be parking in the "back-of-thebus-Economy-class-with-the-groundlings" section!
I have this image in my head of Homer Simpson... "Ooohhh! I'm a
Senator! I get my own
Parking Garage!"
Anyway, it's raining, but we'll be out there nonetheless, at about 7:45
Update: about 10 uf us were there in the rain on the corner of Main & Louden, where all the traffic comes into town. Lots of thumbs-up and honks from the drivers-by. I counted 2 cars with legislative plates.
Also: we're now officially
international news!!
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/christopher_davis/2006/05/new_hampshire_in_rebellion.html
Neal Kurk is on Alex Jones today http://infowars.com
He was on NHPR today from 9am - 10am.
www.nhpr.org
http://www.nhpr.org/taxonomy/term/15001
Quote from: Dreepa on May 02, 2006, 01:02 PM NHFT
He was on NHPR today from 9am - 10am.
www.nhpr.org
http://www.nhpr.org/taxonomy/term/15001
Kurk made his points well, but such "reasoned" forums like NPR/NHPR appeal to people who find RealID perfectly "reasonable". They need to be confronted in full fiery Kurk mode.
What a moron on the other side. He kept denigrating the idea that a RealID could be obtained fraudulently, by saying that the chip would be almost impossible to duplicate. Hey, the chip is not the problem! If the basis documents (birth certificate, SS card, etc.) can be forged, then a
legitimate RealID card can be obtained fraudulently. That's got to be worse than a fake card!
Kevin
Or how about the douchebag (yes douchebag) from MA would wanted Iris scans for everything.
Here's what I'll be bringing!
(http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/6703/clipboard016mv.th.jpg) (http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard016mv.jpg)
(http://img419.imageshack.us/img419/738/clipboard027ur.th.jpg) (http://img419.imageshack.us/my.php?image=clipboard027ur.jpg)
Hey, aries is a real person :)
Oh, and if you want, my name is Matt, not aries of course. :)
Umm.. if you want to kill Real-ID, you want to vote YES on 1582 (http://freestateblogs.net/node/306)!!!
Joel's note for tomorrow!
Hello all,
just a quick note. Almost 10 of us stood in the rain this morning,
holding signs supporting HB1582. We generated dozens of honks and
waves, and at least one person called the 877 number to find out her
senator's contact information. So we were also successful in creating
more support for the bill and getting people to the website.
I've heard mixed reports on HB1582 for tommorrow - it may or may not be
voted on. The Republican leadership is said to be very worried about
how the vote will go. Sen. Gatsas may try to delay it until the vote
he wants is certain.
Whatever happens tommorrow, we will be there. At 7:30, we will meet on
Main street in front of the state house and spread out to hold signs
from there. At 9:30, we will move upstairs to the Senate Gallery and
get settled in to watch the action. You may want to bring a book; it
could be a long day.
If the Senate does not take action on Wednesday, we will repeat the
same schedule on Thursday. For some of us, this will require taking
additional time off work. Everyone must choose their own level of
involvement. I am proud to be working with so many great people who
all share the same commitment to opposing the REAL ID Act - no matter
what happens, we will continue this fight to the end.
Joel Winters
Quote from: d_goddard on May 02, 2006, 06:53 PM NHFT
Umm.. if you want to kill Real-ID, you want to vote YES on 1582 (http://freestateblogs.net/node/306)!!!
That fool! I'm having him correct it now.
Good Luck tomorrow yall.
...my Google alerts are set...
Thanks, Rebel, I hope we have it!
Quote from: aries on May 02, 2006, 07:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 02, 2006, 06:53 PM NHFT
Umm.. if you want to kill Real-ID, you want to vote YES on 1582 (http://freestateblogs.net/node/306)!!!
That fool! I'm having him correct it now.
You should take off your giant hat and wack him with it. ;D
It's good to have the energy you young bucks bring. 8)
Quote from: aries on May 02, 2006, 06:32 PM NHFT
Here's what I'll be bringing!
My 16 year old daughter said, "Ooooh, boys! They're cuuuUUUUuute!"
Then I told her you live practically next door to where we'll be camping this summer. She's bringing her best friend. You're allowed to meet them. I'm heavily armed. ;D
She likes to make self portraits. She's not a great photographer, but she models well.
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What's going on with this. Is there still all the activity their was prior to the recomendation to keep the pressure up?
This is kind of scary. Like they decided what to do behind closed doors for political expedience but the recomendation really isn't a recomendation, just that it was politically expedient. Not that I'm surprised.
This would be wonderfull if this passed.
Any updates?
Tracy
Front page of CM today:
:-\
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/REPOSITORY/60503002
Quote from: Dreepa on May 03, 2006, 08:16 AM NHFT
Front page of CM today:
:-\
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/REPOSITORY/60503002
Quote?I think I would feel a hell of a lot different before 9/11,? said Sen. Robert Flanders, a Republican from Antrim. ?But if we don?t do this, and all the other states do, we?re going to be a haven for terrorists and that kind of thing.?
Nice fearmongering, senator.
QuoteFlanders said he?d received an e-mail from Gregg and a phone call from Bradley urging him to support Real ID. He said he?d received a personal assurance from state Safety Commissioner Richard Flynn, who would administer the state?s Real ID program, that new licenses would not be used to gather residents? personal information. Flanders also believed Flynn's assurances that business is outpacing NH on the MA side of the border, there are no traffic circles in Vermont, Alaska is southwest of California, and George W. Bush is the smartest man alive.
I couldn't resist.
QuoteGregg, a Republican, told the Associated Press that New Hampshire and most other states already have adopted many of the security measures Real ID requires.
New Hampshire law prohibits use of biometrics on licenses, REAL ID calls for it. New Hampshire law allows a mailing address on the license, REAL ID does not. New Hampshire law requires the options to have your photo and SSN deleted, REAL ID sets up sharing of this and more data among the 50 states.
QuoteGregg also said that, contrary to what opponents are saying, the law would not create a national database.
That's like saying the web is not a worldwide database because all the information isn't on one server. Lies, damn lies, and semantics.
The distortion and exaggeration are coming from the anti-1582 side. >:(
Senator Gregg is a traitor.
According to Gatsas, the debate and vote on HB 1582 will take place Thursday, not today.
Alex Jones interviews Neal Kurk:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/kurk.mp3
How would one go about recalling people like Gregg, Bradley, Gatas?
There's an election just over 6 months . . .
Bradley and Bass up for re election.
Senators in NH are not up for election this year.
They can be impeached.
Quote from: NC2NH on May 03, 2006, 09:19 AM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on May 03, 2006, 08:16 AM NHFT
Front page of CM today:
:-\
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/REPOSITORY/60503002
Quote?I think I would feel a hell of a lot different before 9/11,? said Sen. Robert Flanders, a Republican from Antrim. ?But if we don?t do this, and all the other states do, we?re going to be a haven for terrorists and that kind of thing.?
Nice fearmongering, senator.
QuoteFlanders said he?d received an e-mail from Gregg and a phone call from Bradley urging him to support Real ID. He said he?d received a personal assurance from state Safety Commissioner Richard Flynn, who would administer the state?s Real ID program, that new licenses would not be used to gather residents? personal information. Flanders also believed Flynn's assurances that business is outpacing NH on the MA side of the border, there are no traffic circles in Vermont, Alaska is southwest of California, and George W. Bush is the smartest man alive.
I couldn't resist.
QuoteGregg, a Republican, told the Associated Press that New Hampshire and most other states already have adopted many of the security measures Real ID requires.
New Hampshire law prohibits use of biometrics on licenses, REAL ID calls for it. New Hampshire law allows a mailing address on the license, REAL ID does not. New Hampshire law requires the options to have your photo and SSN deleted, REAL ID sets up sharing of this and more data among the 50 states.
QuoteGregg also said that, contrary to what opponents are saying, the law would not create a national database.
That's like saying the web is not a worldwide database because all the information isn't on one server. Lies, damn lies, and semantics.
The distortion and exaggeration is coming from the anti-1582 side. >:(
Could you write us up a short article on this subject for the online edition of the Keene Free Press?
FYI, Senate president Gatsas said at the opening of proceedings today that they won't get to Senate Calendar 17 (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/scaljourns/Calendars/2006/SC%2017.pdf) (where HB1582 is) until tomorrow. He then looked up into the gallery where we were all sitting and said... "so, anyone who is interested in a particular bill on that Calendar, it will be decided on tomorrow." He then called for a 5-minute recess to let us get out.
Subtle, Senator, very subtle. I note with pleasure that many people chose to stay and keep an eye on them anyway!
Funny, the CM article somehow already knew that the vote wouldn't be today. Hmmmm...
Anyway this is a good sign. If Gatsas knew he had the votes he needs to kill 1582, he would have done it first thing. He's buying time.
I (or Irena) will be out tomorrow again, corner of Main & Louden Rd., holding up signs. I hope others will, too!
Anyway, this is the last push. We'll know in about 24 hours which way things went...
LAST CHANCE TO CALL YOUR SENATOR! (http://www.granitestateid.com/action.html)
Quote from: d_goddard on May 03, 2006, 11:00 AM NHFT
I (or Irena) will be out tomorrow again, corner of Main & Louden Rd., holding up signs. I hope others will, too!
How many people were out with signs this morning? Thank you for being there.
Quote from: NC2NH on May 03, 2006, 11:16 AM NHFT
How many people were out with signs this morning?
High-water mark at any one moment was about 17.
Some came, some left, I'd say we had ~21 people total (just not all present at once, some people gotta work!)
We had people on 3 of the 4 corners at this busy intersection, so no matter which way traffic came, they saw us 8)
Quote from: russellkanning on May 03, 2006, 10:21 AM NHFT
Could you write us up a short article on this subject for the online edition of the Keene Free Press?
An honor! I've replied by PM.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 03, 2006, 11:00 AM NHFT
FYI, Senate president Gatsas said at the opening of proceedings today that they won't get to Senate Calendar 17 (http://gencourt.state.nh.us/scaljourns/Calendars/2006/SC%2017.pdf) (where HB1582 is) until tomorrow. He then looked up into the gallery where we were all sitting and said... "so, anyone who is interested in a particular bill on that Calendar, it will be decided on tomorrow." He then called for a 5-minute recess to let us get out.
Subtle, Senator, very subtle. I note with pleasure that many people chose to stay and keep an eye on them anyway!
Denis, you're going to give people the idea that you don't trust politicians. >:D
Good work, and thanks for being there!
I think it went very well this morning!
Now that I think of it, Gatsas must have been dodging us. He was parked in the back of the state house at 6:30 this morning (I got there early and saw). Seems a bit strange.
He's a sellout, corrupt politician, and he's corrupting the rest of the senate. The last thing we need in NH is a 24 member corrupt oligarchy deciding our politics. Ought to be Unicameral, but they'd shoot down the constitutional amendment to change the system, I'm sure.
But either way, the more word we spread about Real ID, whether NH rejects it or not, the more opposition we can get, the better chances we have of getting NH out... someday. I got a chance to talk with a few people about the bill, and many more knew about it as we had people honking and waving at us all day. Nobody mad, no middle fingers or nasty faces. Some curious faces, some people just reading our signs. Every single person that sees the support for this, though, is going to remember it at the polls when it comes time for senatorial elections.
If I can't renew my license without showing a social security card, then I can't renew it ever again, as I've conveniently shredded and lost it in the garbage. I didn't go to the SS card burn so I figured I'd unceremoniously destroy mine.
ANYWAY, it is my hope that the senators are playing along with Gatsas until the vote, and might actually vote with their constituents. You know, represent the people who elected them. I'd just love to see the look on Gatsas' face if it was 23-1. We don't have the smiley for it here, unfortunately.
I'm afraid there are 24 people in this state who actually support Real ID, and they are senate members.
EDIT- Also, I'm afraid no amount of calling will ever swing Gatsas, so if you drop any senators a line tonight, you may as well skip him, he ain't coming around.
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 02:05 PM NHFT
Gatsas ... is a sellout, corrupt politician
I would not go to that extreme, but I think he's doing himself a huge disservice by opposing HB1582.
He probably thinks he is doing the right thing, and is misled.
Though I was not impressed by his photo-op this morning with the schoolkid and the candy bars ::)
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 02:05 PM NHFT
Ought to be Unicameral
no, No, No, NO!NH is beautiful partially because of how tough it is to get anything passed here.
There are so many ways to kill bad legislation!
Yes, it makes "good" bills hard to pass, but that's a headache I'd prefer to the machinery of government running too efficiently, any time.
Indeed, "educated, progressive" folks from Mass. and Vermont and Maine often complain that New Hampshire is so "backwards" (meaning we don't tax people enough) precisely because it's so hard to pass laws here. All I can say to them is,
Amen, brother!Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 02:05 PM NHFT
But either way, the more word we spread about Real ID, whether NH rejects it or not, the more opposition we can get
Amen, again!
How is this? I have it saved as a draft to be sent to the email addresses below..
Senator, I missed school today to spend 2 hours in the cold rain today holding a sign in support of HB1582, but I was happy to do so, for hope that this bill might pass. As you might guess, I care very deeply about this bill, because I care about New Hampshire, its residents, and of course, my rights and privacy. I realize that Senator Gatsas is very opposed to telling the federal government no about anything. I was in the senate office as he unashamedly postponed the vote and looked at us to tell us that "any bills" on calendar 17 that we were anticipating would not be voted on today. I can't make it tomorrow since I am going to be taking the AP English exam for my school, but I will be there in my heart. If you are considering voting no, please reconsider. There has been NO civilian voice of dissent to 1582 in New Hampshire, yet the movement for its passage has been tremendous. Please be a voice for your constituents and vote and say YES to HB1582. If you already plan on voting yes, then I thank you very much.
--Matt Covey
A worried NH citizen.
To the following senators emails:
john.gallus(at)leg.state.nh.us, carljean(at)worldpath.net, joseph.kenney(at)leg.state.nh.us, robert.boyce(at)leg.state.nh.us, peter.burling(at)leg.state.nh.us, robert.flanders(at)leg.state.nh.us, rpojr(at)aol.com, patrick.murphy(at)leg.state.nh.us, thomas.eaton(at)leg.state.nh.us, SenatorBragdon(at)Verizon.net, david.gottesman(at)leg.state.nh.us, joseph.foster(at)leg.state.nh.us, senclegg(at)aol.com, sylvia.larsen(at)leg.state.nh.us, jack.barnes(at)leg.state.nh.us, andre.martel(at)leg.state.nh.us, dalas(at)leg.state.nh.us, maggie.hassan(at)leg.state.nh.us, iris.estabrook(at)leg.state.nh.us
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 02:43 PM NHFT
There has been NO civilian voice of dissent to 1582 in New Hampshire, yet the movement for its passage has been tremendous. Please be a voice for your constituents and vote and say YES to HB1582. If you already plan on voting yes, then I thank you very much.
Nice... and true!
I just don't want to look like I'm coming on too strong. I don't know how many senators will be checking their email tonight, I know Gallus has an intern read and reply to all of his mail. I hope I can get a few responses at least.
Ok, I just sent this. I changed it a bit so I didn't look like I was attacking Gatsas.
Senator, I missed school today to spend 2 hours in the cold rain today holding a sign in support of HB1582, but I was happy to do so, for hope that this bill might pass. As you might guess, I care very deeply about this bill, because I care about New Hampshire, its residents, and of course, my rights and privacy. I realize that President Senator Gatsas is very opposed to telling the federal government no about a federally regulated ID system. I was in the senate office as he postponed the vote and looked at us to tell us that "any bills" (read: HB1582) on calendar 17 that we were anticipating would not be voted on today. I can't make it tomorrow since I am going to be taking the AP English exam for my school, but I will be there in my heart. If you are considering voting no, please reconsider. There has been NO civilian voice of dissent to 1582 in New Hampshire, yet the movement for its passage has been tremendous. Please be a voice for your constituents and vote and say YES to HB1582. If you already plan on voting yes, then I thank you very much.
QuoteQuote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 02:05 PM NHFT
Ought to be Unicameral
no, No, No, NO!
NH is beautiful partially because of how tough it is to get anything passed here.
There are so many ways to kill bad legislation!
Yes, it makes "good" bills hard to pass, but that's a headache I'd prefer to the machinery of government running too efficiently, any time.
Indeed, "educated, progressive" folks from Mass. and Vermont and Maine often complain that New Hampshire is so "backwards" (meaning we don't tax people enough) precisely because it's so hard to pass laws here. All I can say to them is, Amen, brother!
What if it was a 1000 member unicameral, and bills could die in committee?
What if we just had true democracy? The infrastructure is easily possible. If it was "whoever cares enough to come down to the capitol and cast their vote, gets a vote on this bill" I think we'd see more good bills pass. I only fear things like the smoking ban might get through. I guess with a system like that you'd need a much more specific and detailed constitution. I'll save this for a different thread in a different forum. I just like imagining what government could be better.
Personally, I just think we need more mechanisms for forcing bills. The more direct representation/democracy, the better. If the senate didn't like a bill, say, the counties could vote to push it through, or towns, or people, by petition or otherwise.
Hey, hope!
From Peter Burling, I recieved a reply (within 15 minutes even!) - "I will."
So has the senate adjourned for today, or are they on a break where he might check his email?
Oh, of course, they all have blackberries and whatnot.
Hey, win or loose, how about we chip in and have flowers delivered to each senator that votes yes! And maybe a candy bar, too! We can send Gatsas a tiny one >:D
Just by us having to return in the morning MORE people will have learned.
As I left the gallery and was in the hall, I heard one guy (dismissively) telling another what our issue is about. So, I (kindly) offered the fellow who wanted more info a copy of the Union Leader's editorial - wich he happily took. ;D
I talked with some folks on the street (afterwards) who said they will call their senators TODAY (and they knew - quite well - who their senators are.
I think they are actualy going to do it, because they were activists. Unfortunately/fortunately, I think both of their senators are already with us.
I''ll be back. ;)
There's a reason America isn't a true democracy. Bread and Circuses.
Your email was a good one, IMNSHO :)
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 03:01 PM NHFT
What if we just had true democracy? The infrastructure is easily possible.
Yipes! Don't scare me like that!!
Here, read this. Please. Please.
It'll be worth your while, is a quick read, is one of the best sci-fi novels ever written, and subtly has a lot to say about "true democracy".
The Dosadi Experiment (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0765342537/sr=8-1/qid=1146686824/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-6549018-8798458?%5Fencoding=UTF8), by Frank Herbert
Denis our man in the Senate. :)
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Dawn our woman in the Senate. :)
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The New Hampshire Senate Chambers.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 03:07 PM NHFT
And maybe a candy bar, too! We can send Gatsas a tiny one >:D
Sweet! "a tiny one." Very nice! :o ;D :D ;) :) :o 8)
Pleasure to meet you today my friend.
Joel, thanks for the push against the Real ID. :)
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CM LTE from Everett, WA:
The good fight, JENNY GARDEN, Everett, Wash. - Letter (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/REPOSITORY/605030329/1029/OPINION03)
May 03. 2006 8:00AM
Thank God for New Hampshire! It is time to take a stand against the ever more prying, spying, controlling federal government. I can only hope that my state of Washington follows suit and rallies against the Real ID horror proposed by Congress.
Stay resolute. Plenty of other American citizens are with you!
JENNY GARDEN
Everett, Wash.
And Jenn has been organizing all day and working at night. :)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Hey Roger,
Thanks for the pics! Kinda makes it more real for us out here in the other 49...
Brian
Stood at the corner where the Senators drive to the parking. A lone figure in the rain holding a sign, got some thumbs up and waves from Senators coming to work.
Went for a walk over to where the larger group at the major intersection was. With some new acquaintances, walked back over to the spot near the parking. Good conversions, had a motorist stop and get out of his car to shake our hands and thank us. :) Don Gorman stopped by, he told us we should stand right at the entrance to the parking garage. I said that Joel's group had been told yesterday that they needed a permit to demonstrate on state property. Don encouraged us to do it as a right, I said I'd go get the video camera and he could hold the sign. Don said he needed to go talk to a politico. I guess we're no Russell Kanning. :) Had some more interesting conversation with Mr. Gorman Don, nice guy answered my questions about New Hampshire.
Went into the state house where I saw the players for our team waiting to go up to the gallery of the Senate. Pleasant treatment by the police and ushers at the state house. Nice to be able to watch the process, though I can see the power and seduction as in any government entity. Gatsas reminds me of Napoleon from "Animal Farm"... gregarious and smiling but the little banter about the boy and the candy bars shows the corruption influence peddling played out as a normal way of doing business. Oh... I'm not making any allegations, but he sure has a nice new Mercedes in his privileged parking spot. ::)
New Hampshire State House
Worth checking out if you are into it. ;)
Quote from: FSPinNY on May 03, 2006, 03:44 PM NHFT
Hey Roger,
Thanks for the pics! Kinda makes it more real for us out here in the other 49...
Brian
8)
?It?s not a ?real ID?; it?s a driver?s license,? Gatsas said. ?In New Hampshire, it?s not a big change. People believe it?s Big Brother looking over your shoulder.?
I would say this is an ignorant comment, but I think he knws exactly what this is really all about and is just plain evil. >:D
I thought Kate was going to jump down out of the gallery and attack Gatsas for telling us it wasn't going to be until tomorrow. I'm not quite sure why he did that, there could be several reasons. I know that I will be there tomorrow, if he doesn't pull a fast one and vote on it today while I'm at work, and I hope we can have as many if not more people turn up.
Been a while since I visited these folks but the British protests against their own national ID is still going strong:
http://www.no2id.net/ (http://www.no2id.net/)
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 03, 2006, 03:08 PM NHFT
There's a reason America isn't a true democracy. Bread and Circuses.
No, we are a democratic republic. In theory, you get to elect people who will vote how you ask them to. In reality, you get to elect authoritarians, or vote for a third party with slim chances.
Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes, a rep actually votes against his ideals and obeys his constituents. These times make me happy.
If we don't pass this NH will be a "haven for terrorists" is this guy for real real? Damn what a Jackass.
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 04:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 03, 2006, 03:08 PM NHFT
There's a reason America isn't a true democracy. Bread and Circuses.
No, we are a democratic republic. In theory, you get to elect people who will vote how you ask them to. In reality, you get to elect authoritarians, or vote for a third party with slim chances.
Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes, a rep actually votes against his ideals and obeys his constituents. These times make me happy.
'bread and circuses'
PLURAL NOUN: Offerings, such as benefits or entertainments, intended to placate discontent or distract attention from a policy or situation.
Gatsas does have a nice new Mercedes. And with those distinctive plates that say "President."
You could pick those out anywhere. Especially in Manchester, the city by whose people he was elected.
Maybe a nice flower with a "Thanks for all the hard work" or "Appreciate the representation" card tied to it is in order, just left under his windshield wiper.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 03, 2006, 04:47 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 04:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 03, 2006, 03:08 PM NHFT
There's a reason America isn't a true democracy. Bread and Circuses.
No, we are a democratic republic. In theory, you get to elect people who will vote how you ask them to. In reality, you get to elect authoritarians, or vote for a third party with slim chances.
Sometimes, rarely, but sometimes, a rep actually votes against his ideals and obeys his constituents. These times make me happy.
'bread and circuses'
PLURAL NOUN: Offerings, such as benefits or entertainments, intended to placate discontent or distract attention from a policy or situation.
Oh
thanks :blush:
Got another "will do" reply :)
All the senators that are planning on saying no are hiding behind this "I didn't hear my blackberry beep just now" facade.
Or maybe since DownsizeDC and the ACLU have both given their folks encouragement to support us on this, they are simply inundated with mail and calls.
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 05:40 PM NHFT
Got another "will do" reply :)
Thanks for braving the rain to take a stand today, Matt. Good job on the email to the senators.
How about a tally of senators who've stated, post-committee vote, that they'll vote yes in the full senate?
Andre Martel, Peter Burling...
Quote from: NC2NH on May 03, 2006, 06:09 PM NHFT
Thanks for braving the rain to take a stand today, Matt. Good job on the email to the senators.
I really enjoyed it ;D I felt like I was actually DOING something about something for once. It's rare that I feel like I'm really being productive. I work, do school work and such, but this really felt good, being able to do this in public, talking to some people about Real ID that weren't aware of 1582...
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 03:01 PM NHFT
QuoteQuote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 02:05 PM NHFT
Ought to be Unicameral
no, No, No, NO!
NH is beautiful partially because of how tough it is to get anything passed here.
There are so many ways to kill bad legislation!
Yes, it makes "good" bills hard to pass, but that's a headache I'd prefer to the machinery of government running too efficiently, any time.
Indeed, "educated, progressive" folks from Mass. and Vermont and Maine often complain that New Hampshire is so "backwards" (meaning we don't tax people enough) precisely because it's so hard to pass laws here. All I can say to them is, Amen, brother!
What if it was a 1000 member unicameral, and bills could die in committee?
What if we just had true democracy? The infrastructure is easily possible. If it was "whoever cares enough to come down to the capitol and cast their vote, gets a vote on this bill" I think we'd see more good bills pass. I only fear things like the smoking ban might get through. I guess with a system like that you'd need a much more specific and detailed constitution. I'll save this for a different thread in a different forum. I just like imagining what government could be better.
Personally, I just think we need more mechanisms for forcing bills. The more direct representation/democracy, the better. If the senate didn't like a bill, say, the counties could vote to push it through, or towns, or people, by petition or otherwise.
You don't want more democracy. Democracy is evil. Democracy is inherently socialist as everybody's clamering to use government to steal from everybody else.
No, you don't want more Democracy. It should be more of a Republic. The Senators should be ellected by counties or cities instead of direct ellections. It'd probably be less corrupt if it knew it could get impeached by the local jurisdiction it's representing at anytime, instead of being ellected by the population at large.
TRacy
I like what Jefferson said, about wanting to see hundreds of tiny independent wards, confederated for their own defense and mutual aid but nothing more. That democracy in such a small population was ideal, and worked well.
What if a 2/3, 3/4 or 4/5 vote was required to pass a law democratically? And naturally, there would need to be a constitution to limit the power of the people to screw themselves over. I like 96% consent for constitutional amendments.
I just sent my last round of emails off to the Senators.
Hope they help.
Although it was frustrating that the bill was not heard today, it's not too surprising. I didn't realize until this morning when I went up to the 3rd floor to pick up the senate calendars that there were 4 calendars pertaining to 5/3 and 5/4. Calendar 16 was published on 4/20. Then 17 on 4/27. I don't remember the dates on 17a and 17b. But I can see why 16 would come before 17 (but not 17a before 17b). And the order is up to the whim of the president. So, it will be interesting to see how he handles it tomorrow. Will he do it first to get rid of all those real ID opponents in the gallery? Or drag it out until the end to make all those anti-real IDers suffer??
Roger - I can't believe one of the fellows let you take his picture. I wonder if he knows it's posted here?
I was there.The rally,commitee vote and yesterdays supposed vote.I will be there again today.I know that we are supposed to be sweet and kiss the asses of our employees(read senators),but it is extremely hard not to show the utter comtempt that I feel towards these people who begged to get the jobs that they refuse to do.And that Gatsas character makes me want to puke with his candy bars and hockey team awards.Bloated windbag knows that we citizens cant take off work every day.But,I will be there again this morning holding a sign and begging to have my inalienable rights protected by the people who were elected and swore to do so.Had a guy stop yesterday and ask what the bill was about.After I explained it to him,he said this is like the new world order stuff isnt it?He walked off looking terrified.So,the average person isnt as dumb as the politicans would like to think.The average person is merely uninformed.Regardless of the outcome of this bill,I will not be complying with any federal mandate for national ID(or anything else).No matter how safe it makes us from the terrorists :D
maybe this should be moved to endless rant section
Traveler - I'm glad you're going to go today!
If several people can get into the gallery that are against RealID (maybe he'll look for those badges), he's going to be nervous about the vote. If you can, notice for me how Gallus votes, if it's a voice vote. He's voted with me on a lot of things, like the smoking ban, gun laws and some big spending bills. This is the issue for me, though.
This is him, senator #1:
(http://img162.imageshack.us/img162/8430/gallus20059uk.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Quote from: d_goddard on May 03, 2006, 02:24 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 02:05 PM NHFT
Gatsas ... is a sellout, corrupt politician
I would not go to that extreme....
Maybe he is not a sellout ..... maybe he always liked a "papers please" government.
Quote from: intergraph19 on May 03, 2006, 04:05 PM NHFTI thought Kate was going to jump down out of the gallery and attack Gatsas for telling us it wasn't going to be until tomorrow.
Anyone have a sign that reads "Don't make me come down there"?
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 05:35 AM NHFT
If several people can get into the gallery that are against RealID (maybe he'll look for those badges), he's going to be nervous about the vote.
It looked full of 1582 supporters yesterday.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 04, 2006, 06:03 AM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 05:35 AM NHFT
If several people can get into the gallery that are against RealID (maybe he'll look for those badges), he's going to be nervous about the vote.
It looked full of 1582 supporters yesterday.
Yeah... it was standing room only with folks spilling out into the hallways.
I'm on the way out the door now! But I wanted to mention that I was rather upset by the fact that the State Police said we couldn't protest at the state house property without a permit.
Ok I am just getting back.
I got the the State House at 7am. Gatsas' car and the Senate Majority Leader's car were already there.
I saw two other Senators drive into the parking lot. I waved and showed them my signs (Yes on HB1582, No on HB626).
One Senator was wallking up the street. I told him that he needed to vote yes on HB1582. He smiled.
I said I bet you have had lots of people from NH call and email you to vote for this bill but none that have called you to vote against. He smiled. I said please do what is right.
I talked to two more Senators on the way in. ( I don't know their names. I suppose I should car a photo list of them.)
Also is there a way we can get the car numbers for each Senator?
I didn't see anyone else. I left at 8am to go to work.
If anyone finds out please let us know how the vote went.
The Senate probably won't get to 1582 today.
When I left ~20 minutes ago, they were still finishing up Senate Celendar 16. Lots of "us" wearing "No Real-ID" tags are still in there, though, keeping an eye on things!
There's no way they're going to get through the 40 bills in line ahead of 1582.
This bill probably won't come up until next week.
More time to contact your Senator...
40 bills, sheesh, nothing important I hope.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 11:11 AM NHFT
The Senate probably won't get to 1582 today.
When I left ~20 minutes ago, they were still finishing up Senate Celendar 16. Lots of "us" wearing "No Real-ID" tags are still in there, though, keeping an eye on things!
There's no way they're going to get through the 40 bills in line ahead of 1582.
This bill probably won't come up until next week.
More time to contact your Senator...
Anything with HB 626?
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on May 04, 2006, 11:20 AM NHFT
40 bills, sheesh, nothing important I hope.
I am listening to the live audio/video right now from
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senateliveaudio.asx
There was one bill that had to do with voter registration and some woman stood up and said there was no voter fraud in NH.
BWAHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Quote from: Dreepa on May 04, 2006, 07:40 AM NHFT
Ok I am just getting back.
I got the the State House at 7am. Gatsas' car and the Senate Majority Leader's car were already there.
I saw two other Senators drive into the parking lot. I waved and showed them my signs (Yes on HB1582, No on HB626).
One Senator was wallking up the street. I told him that he needed to vote yes on HB1582. He smiled.
I said I bet you have had lots of people from NH call and email you to vote for this bill but none that have called you to vote against. He smiled. I said please do what is right.
I talked to two more Senators on the way in. ( I don't know their names. I suppose I should car a photo list of them.)
Also is there a way we can get the car numbers for each Senator?
I didn't see anyone else. I left at 8am to go to work.
If anyone finds out please let us know how the vote went.
Chris, THANK YOU for including HB 626 in your signage. People do not understand just how important this bill is in needing to be killed.
It had OTP status of about 4-2 I think, so it's not set in stone if people would use the file I sent around to protest it.
If it does not come up today (anyone know if it was tabled?) we have more time to examine the bill with amendments and write or call the Senators.
Quote from: John on April 26, 2006, 01:26 AM NHFT
When someone on the committee (at the public hearing) said he would be checking with our congressional delegation, it became clear to me that there would be some behind-the-scene manuvering . . . If we lose this vote, I'll asume the worst of any/all in our congressional delegation who has/have not taken a clear PUBLIC stance with us.
As a (small l) libertarian who has leaned very, very generously towards their party since my first vote in 1980, I am sickened by what is going on.
If they can not find their way to support us on this, then how can any of us ever trust/support those who would do this to us? I, for one, am very tired of being played!
To paraphrase our president: If they are not with us on this one, they are against us.
You are so right John, and Gregg, Bradley and any Senator who does NOT vote for 1582 will be in serious jeopardy of being relected.
Senator Sununu however, is on board with us.
I'm listening to the Senate audio now, and Gatsas is SO BAD!!!!!
The way he takes votes is like "All in favor say Aye" "Aye" "Alloppsedsaynomeasurepasses."
Ugh!!!! Can we give a SINGLE SECOND for no votes?!?!?!?!?!?
JM
Quote from: TN-FSP on April 27, 2006, 12:46 PM NHFT
It worked great and there is nothing wrong with quicktime. It is funny to watch older and smarter people have computer problems while I don't have any :)
I loved the video. Really good to end with the state rep. Also, posting all of the websites was cool. It could have started with text on the screen that says the time date location and that 200 people were there, though.
Yeah QT plays full screen and you can set what files you want it to associate with. No problems here, and I'm an old geek. :-)
Quote from: NC2NH on May 03, 2006, 06:09 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 03, 2006, 05:40 PM NHFT
Got another "will do" reply :)
Thanks for braving the rain to take a stand today, Matt. Good job on the email to the senators.
How about a tally of senators who've stated, post-committee vote, that they'll vote yes in the full senate?
Andre Martel, Peter Burling...
Didn't Andre Martel later check in with them and register his YES vote? Thus now we have 6-0 OTP?
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 11:48 AM NHFT
Didn't Andre Martel later check in with them and register his YES vote? Thus now we have 6-0 OTP?
Correct.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 11:56 AM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 11:48 AM NHFT
Didn't Andre Martel later check in with them and register his YES vote? Thus now we have 6-0 OTP?
Correct.
They are talking about private medical info right now but I don't think it's 626.
I don't even see that one on the list either! I hope it was not tabled.
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on May 04, 2006, 11:20 AM NHFT
40 bills, sheesh, nothing important I hope.
There was only one sort-of important one, in my opinon, and it was just an HCR, ie, a "resolution", ie, a statement with no real force.
It was HCR 25 (http://generalcourt.org/bills/2006/HCR25), "A RESOLUTION urging the United States to withdraw funding for the United Nations if the United Nations adopts a resolution in violation of the United States Constitution."
Killing it took all of 20 seconds. No debate, no roll call division, just a voice vote. :(
I heard only 1 senator in favor (which, in this case, meant voting "No" to accept the committee's ITL recommendation)
That said, there were a few minor bills that got approved or killed that I was glad to see get approved/killed respectively, but they were not big issues. Stuff like getting Incumbent Local Exchanges more open to competition. A nice thing, more competition in telecoms, but not nice enough for me to head down to the Barley House and order a few celebratory pints for lunch ;)
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 12:04 PM NHFT
There was only one sort-of important one, in my opinon, and it was just an HCR, ie, a "resolution", ie, a statement with no real force.
It was HCR 25 (http://generalcourt.org/bills/2006/HCR25), "A RESOLUTION urging the United States to withdraw funding for the United Nations if the United Nations adopts a resolution in violation of the United States Constitution."
Killing it took all of 20 seconds. No debate, no roll call division, just a voice vote. :(
I heard only 1 senator in favor (which, in this case, meant voting "No" to accept the committee's ITL recommendation)
Man, like the UN has not already violated our constitution ad nauseum?
Quote
That said, there were a few minor bills that got approved or killed that I was glad to see get approved/killed respectively, but they were not big issues. Stuff like getting Incumbent Local Exchanges more open to competition. A nice thing, more competition in telecoms, but not nice enough for me to head down to the Barley House and order a few celebratory pints for lunch ;)
HB 626 is VERY important and was supposed to be addressed today. People who work with the town gov'ts know this bill must be KILLED.
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 11:39 AM NHFT
Senator Sununu however, is on board with us.
Althoug technically he did vote for REAL ID -- the vote was 100-0 in the US Senate.
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 11:30 AM NHFT
Chris, THANK YOU for including HB 626 in your signage. People do not understand just how important this bill is in needing to be killed.
You are the one who called my attention to it.... as I start learning the ways of town government I need to learn the tools of the trade.
;D
Quote from: Dreepa on May 04, 2006, 12:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 11:39 AM NHFT
Senator Sununu however, is on board with us.
Althoug technically he did vote for REAL ID -- the vote was 100-0 in the US Senate.
Right. Several Senators spoke out against REAL ID but voted for funding the US military and REAL ID was tacked on to that bill.
So then they like tracking and numbering people.
They also like killing people through the military.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 04, 2006, 12:42 PM NHFT
So then they like tracking and numbering people.
They also like killing people through the military.
That goes hand in hand, doesn't it?
They are hearing it RIGHT NOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sheila just read a big piece of why they SHOULD PASS IT....
Barnes is now speaking!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Did they vote before the recess? Are they coming back today?
Quote from: toowm on May 04, 2006, 03:53 PM NHFT
Did they vote before the recess? Are they coming back today?
We heard some foolish stuff by Barnes !#@!##$!#$ about how he is willing to give up his freedom for security (the wrong answer of course) and then suddenly went to music. So no vote taken yet, but this is such a cliff hanger!
Sheila read a WONDERFUL piece in favor of this bill, and emphasized the support etc......
I hope as DEAN she has influence.
What Sen. Barnes had to say scared the living hell out of me.
How about that commission, eh? I couldn't think of a better list of hacks if I tried. The report of that commission is pre-determined, of course. The "private" organizations they mentioned are all representatives of law enforcement and other government agencies. No ACLU. No privacy organizations. No rights organizations at all. Just hacks.
Thanks for the heads-up, Jane. I caught the end of Barnes saying he didn't mind taking his shoes off at airports because we're at war. *GROAN* But he voted our way in committee... and if even a lemming like Barnes will vote with us, we ought to be okay?!?!
Uh-oh, are they trying to stick an amendment on it? The music's over.
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 04:03 PM NHFT
Thanks for the heads-up, Jane. I caught the end of Barnes saying he didn't mind taking his shoes off at airports because we're at war. *GROAN* But he voted our way in committee... and if even a lemming like Barnes will vote with us, we ought to be okay?!?!
Uh-oh, are they trying to stick an amendment on it? The music's over.
Yes and some younger Senator is speaking against the amendment to 'study' it further because he says we can always go back and rethink if needed, but for now it is important to KEEP OUR LIBERTIES...and he is citing concentration camps, and a lot of other history.
He is also pointing out that it is an UNFUNDED MANDATE!
What's this guy's name??? I missed it because I am on the phone with another Porc and we are listening to it together.
He is also jabbing Ginny Beecher who can't even fix the mess that is there now in the DMV!!! This is just what Ed said..
I gotta find the name of this person.
He sounds like he is one of us....did anyone catch his name? I am sitting here half dressed getting ready for my radio show but can't move!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
He is a wonderful speaker and is now saying JUST SAY NO and stand for the rights of our people! We need to NOT take $3M sucker money to do this.
Vote down the amendment to restudy and vote YES to support this bill!
This is play by play here, so I'm typing as fast as I can.
Gatsas is now criticizing him and asking him if he even read the amendment.
He is answering that the portion of the bill to protect us from Real ID is gone and instead there is a study committee in its place!!!!!!!!!!!!
I will start a new post....meanwhile, an agenda item to accept the $3M in the meantime!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I was about to ask what his name is.
Whoever is speaking now is arguing against the amendment, saying the bill should pass as is. He's giving an emotional and hopefully persuasive speech!
Burling? Barnes is defending the amendment, which appears to be his... a BS committee to "study" it.
Keep us posted!
LOL at getting up to the minute status from a forum thread.
;D
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 04:12 PM NHFT
Burling? Barnes is defending the amendment, which appears to be his... a BS committee to "study" it.
yeah I think it is burling.... and that barnes was saying that.
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 04:12 PM NHFT
Burling? Barnes is defending the amendment, which appears to be his... a BS committee to "study" it.
See how the speaker is exposing the fact that the amendment makes it become a study commission MEANWHILE takes the $3M to start the procedure!!!!!!!!!!
Another person is pointing that out....a woman. If you're gonna take the $3M why bother to amend it to study commission? SHENANIGANS!!!!
Here is another speaker pro-1582
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senateliveaudio.asx (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senateliveaudio.asx)
Barnes sucks. Hassan is speaking against the amendment and for the bill. Good for her.
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 04:12 PM NHFT
Burling? Barnes is defending the amendment, which appears to be his... a BS committee to "study" it.
Welcome back Rocketman.... when are you coming to NH?
Have you signed pledgebank.com/first1000?
Quote from: Republidog on May 04, 2006, 04:12 PM NHFT
Keep us posted!
LOL at getting up to the minute status from a forum thread.
;D
I am going to have to get dressed and leave for the station, but I have this stream on the cell phone thanks to Sean Glazier and I will keep updating after I arrive there.
I hate to leave !!!
THEY ARE DOING IT RIGHT NOW
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senateliveaudio.asx
BARNES THAT D---HEAD INTRODUCED AN AMENDMENT TO NEUTRALIZE THE BILL
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 04:18 PM NHFT
THEY ARE DOING IT RIGHT NOW
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senateliveaudio.asx
BARNES THAT D---HEAD INTRODUCED AN AMENDMENT TO NEUTRALIZE THE BILL
DICKHEAD go ahead and say it! ;D
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 04:18 PM NHFT
THEY ARE DOING IT RIGHT NOW
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senateliveaudio.asx
BARNES THAT D---HEAD INTRODUCED AN AMENDMENT TO NEUTRALIZE THE BILL
Taking the money is DE FACTO ACCEPTANCE of the system.
If you can get this on WMP here is the link again, I have to leave!
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/live/senate.html
Quote from: Dreepa on May 04, 2006, 07:40 AM NHFT
Also is there a way we can get the car numbers for each Senator?
Is the number on the car the district number?
Quote from: Dreepa on May 04, 2006, 04:16 PM NHFT
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 04:12 PM NHFT
Burling? Barnes is defending the amendment, which appears to be his... a BS committee to "study" it.
Welcome back Rocketman.... when are you coming to NH?
Have you signed pledgebank.com/first1000?
Next weekend, for good. :o
And yes. :)
Clegg (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/members/senate14.asp), you are a tool
Conclusions:
Odell is a statist lemming through and through. Go BURLING!
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 04:35 PM NHFT
Odell is a statist lemming through and through.
Yep. These folks are signing away their seats.
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 04:35 PM NHFT
Go BURLING!
No. Burling is a tax-and-spender, all for social programs and social engineering. So is Larsen.
They are just illustrating how sometimes people can be against you on 80% os issues, and your savior on the other 20%
Morse sounds mad!
Quote from: Dreepa on May 04, 2006, 04:39 PM NHFT
Morse sounds mad!
"If Jud Gregg wants to have his way with me, I SUPPORT HIM!"
Morse "changed his mind" this morning after speaking to a veteran, yeah right. I don't believe that for a second.
In fact, I'd bet he made up the story about talking to the veteran.
QuoteMorse (speaking of Barnes' amendment): "he knows better than anyone that called me"
Laterno is supposed to be my Senator. Listening now, he won't be after the next election. >:( :( :-[
Thanks for keeping us updated !
Quote from: toowm on May 04, 2006, 04:45 PM NHFT
QuoteMorse (speaking of Barnes' amendment): "he knows better than anyone that called me"
Laterno is supposed to be my Senator. Listening now, he won't be after the next election. >:( :( :-[
AMEN.
These are people telling their constituents to FOAD.
Not the way to win votes and influence people!
Morse sounds like a real sicko. Now this next idiot Laterno is parroting BS that has been long since discredited... "truck drivers won't be able to leave the state." And he claims to have learned this in the last week?
Listening to this makes my blood pressure rise. I can't believe that these people are saying about this!
Listen to what he just said 'they haven't even set the standards' EXACTLY so we don't know what it WILL do.
Letourneau
Hassan is a tax and spender but she is dead on on this issue.
Its all a show. Every one of these Senators made up their minds long ago.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 04, 2006, 04:52 PM NHFT
Its all a show. Every one of these Senators made up their minds long ago.
To deny the use of your NH license in another state is against the 14th amendment and unconstitutional.
I am at the radio station and still listening thanks to Sean Glazier on my cell phone but will have to go off soon...... :-(
Keep me posted on IMs (CNHTRADIO) as to what is happening will you?
I have YIM and AIM open...and will be on air in TWO.
it's a "blizzard of uncertainty!" - sorry, I do not know which Senator just said that...
Burling sounds frustrated. That concerns me. But he's still kicking ass.
sounds like they will amend
The amendment passed 10-9! >:( >:( >:( >:( >:(
So which committee meets tomorrow to accept the $3 million blood money?
Disgusting.
14-9
Shameful.
Quote from: toowm on May 04, 2006, 05:04 PM NHFT
which committee meets tomorrow to accept the $3 million blood money?
Anybody know?
Anybody up for CD?
Here's the "blood money" meeting.
Page 5 of this document:
http://gencourt.state.nh.us/scaljourns/Calendars/2006/SC%2018.pdf
FRIDAY, MAY 5, 2006
FISCAL COMMITTEE OF THE GENERAL COURT (RSA 14:30-a)
9:00 a.m. Rooms 210-211, LOB Meeting Audits:
State of New Hampshire
Highway Fund Financial
Statements
For the Fiscal Year Ended
June 30, 2005
State of New Hampshire
Comprehensive Annual
Financial Report
For the Year Ended
June 30, 2005
what was the ammendment?
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on May 04, 2006, 05:16 PM NHFT
what was the ammendment?
To go to 'study' but meanwhile vote to ACCEPT the $3M
I'm on air with just Howie so send questions~! Ed is MIA.
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 05:17 PM NHFT
To go to 'study' but meanwhile vote to ACCEPT the $3M
No, the committee decides whether to accept the money tomorrow:
9:30 a.m. Rooms 210-211, LOB
Barnes that weasling worm, changed from OTP in commitee to gutting the bill when it mattered, who put up the amendement that gutted the bill....
Show up tomorrow 9:30 AM.
Dress nice, be respectful, and MAKE SURE HE KNOWS WE'RE WATCHING.
HE CANNOT WORM OUT OF MAKING A DECISION!
The entire bill text was replaced. It became a different bill.
The bill is dead, and the $3 million bribe acceptance is assured.
The study committee's outcome has been predetermined.
The Senate may attempt to repeal the picture retainment statute (RSA 263:40) in the 2008 session by attaching it to the budget, since the House probably won't pass it as a seperate bill.
Let's keep an eye on the DMV in the meantime, to make sure they don't violate 263:40.
BTW, the card will have to have a chip, despite the liars' claims. How else are you going to store the digital image, required by REAL ID? You can't store it on a magnetic strip, since they can store less than 1 KB.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 05:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: toowm on May 04, 2006, 05:04 PM NHFT
which committee meets tomorrow to accept the $3 million blood money?
Anybody know?
Anybody up for CD?
I already burned my SScard. Try it .... it is fun.
Jim (the big Nazi) cut up my expired license.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 05:23 PM NHFT
Barnes that weasling worm, changed from OTP in commitee to gutting the bill when it mattered, who put up the amendement that gutted the bill....
Show up tomorrow 9:30 AM.
Dress nice, be respectful, and MAKE SURE HE KNOWS WE'RE WATCHING.
HE CANNOT WORM OUT OF MAKING A DECISION!
Thing is, Denis, I'm not sure that crusty old geezer can actually see. Damn, I knew that 6-0 committe vote was too good to be true... I only got good vibes from Hassan and Burling, while Barnes seemed to scoff at all the testimony and even left the room.
Analysis of our chances of getting them to refuse the $3 million pending a report from the BS committee? This is
so, so not over... do they think we're just going to go away?
Well that's lovely, does anyone have the updated bill with amendment? I wish I could have stayed, but I was going out on one job, couldn't do two...
Quote from: Rocketman on May 04, 2006, 05:35 PM NHFT
Analysis of our chances of getting them to refuse the $3 million pending a report from the BS committee?
About zero.
But if we don't show up they
will assume this is over.
They now need to feel the pressure on
every single step.
They need to see what happened this afternoon was a miscalculation on their part, that the people will not stand for it, that they have touched a nerve and now need to scramble to save face.
anyone have info on eaton's role in this?
also i understand there is talk of taking this up with the executive council members?
what are other constructive things we could do?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 04, 2006, 05:45 PM NHFT
anyone have info on eaton's role in this?
also i understand there is talk of taking this up with the executive council members?
what are other constructive things we could do?
I thought he was NOT for the amendment to gut this bill...but I could be wrong, I did not always catch WHO was talking as I was listening on the cell phone al the way to going on air.
also, even if the commission recommends taking the money it still has to go back for a vote AND the House has to concur~!!!
Heck I am multitasking here, no Ed and I'm running the computer and conversing with Howie on the air. LOL
I have no words..
this post has been removed by the vast right wing conspiracy.
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS.
edit- anybody know how Gallus voted? I still want to send flowers or a card to those who voted in favor of the bill, without amendment.
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 06:15 PM NHFT
I have no words..
I keep imagining these senators being assassinated. And I'm not even going to say I don't want it - I do.
Corrupt bastard politicians.
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS.
Find out who the 14 were that voted for the amendment and I will announce them on air RIGHT NOW ? they were the ones who caved to Gregg. They are the ones who need to be contacted!!!!!!!
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 06:17 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 06:15 PM NHFT
I have no words..
I keep imagining these senators being assassinated. And I'm not even going to say I don't want it - I do.
Corrupt bastard politicians.
SIC SEMPER TYRANNIS.
Find out who the 14 were that voted for the amendment and I will announce them on air RIGHT NOW — they were the ones who caved to Gregg. They are the ones who need to be contacted!!!!!!!
The most recent activity on the state voting records page is 4/20
Quote from: freedominnh on May 04, 2006, 06:19 PM NHFT
Names?
Or numbers. They each have a number.
I know Gallus is 1 and I want to know his vote.
The votes:
Against amendment, in favor of original HB 1582:
Gallus (R)
Burling (D)
Bragdon (R)
Gottesman (D)
Foster (D)
Larson (D)
Estabrook (D)
Hassan (D)
Fuller-Clark (D)
In favor of REAL ID:
Johnson (R)
Kenney (R)
Boyce (R)
Green (R)
Flanders (R)
Odell (R)
Roberge (R)
Eaton (R)
Clegg (R)
Barnes (R)
Martel (R)
Letourneau (R)
Morse (R)
Gatsas (R)
Gallus wins my vote next election.
Anyone know of any cheap flower shops in the Berlin area?
I want to have a card and flowers delivered to him to say thanks. This isn't against some stupid lobbying rule, right?
Quote from: freedominnh on May 04, 2006, 06:30 PM NHFT
This new bill will have to be accepted by House committee and be introduced in the House. Fillibuster time.
Will it? I thought it would be enrolled shortly, seeing as it's impotent.
If it just establishes a committee, does it need house approval?
Just shot Gallus a short thank you email.
There will probably be a joint committee.
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 06:31 PM NHFT
Quote from: freedominnh on May 04, 2006, 06:30 PM NHFT
This new bill will have to be accepted by House committee and be introduced in the House. Fillibuster time.
Will it? I thought it would be enrolled shortly, seeing as it's impotent.
If it just establishes a committee, does it need house approval?
Yes, if they change the bill in any way it goes back to the house for a vote. It goes back and forth until it is either voted down or agreed upon by both.
There is freedom within, there is freedom without
Try to catch the deluge in a paper cup
There's a battle ahead, many battles are lost
But you'll never see the end of the road
While you're traveling with me
Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
We know they won't win
Now I'm towing my car, there's a hole in the roof
My possessions are causing me suspicion but there's no proof
In the paper today tales of war and of waste
But you turn right over to the T.V. page
Now I'm walking again to the beat of a drum
And I'm counting the steps to the door of your heart
Only shadows ahead barely clearing the roof
Get to know the feeling of liberation and relief
Hey now, hey now
Don't dream it's over
Hey now, hey now
When the world comes in
They come, they come
To build a wall between us
Don't ever let them win
Just got off the phone with Joel, who organized the rally at the State House the other weekend.
He definitely recommends people make it to the meeting:
Friday, May 5, 9:00 a.m. Rooms 210-211, LOB (Google map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Legislative+Office+Building,+concord,+NH&cid=43208056,-71538056,4379367068487050633&ll=43.206881,-71.538548&spn=0.005232,0.007403&om=1))
(I earlier misread the calendar, the meeting starts at 9AM)
If they know we are watching, it makes a difference!
New Hampshire can accept RealID. I won't. I'll always keep my current license handy in my glove box, and my expired passport for ID.
My social security card is long gone...
Life is going to be hard thanks to this decision, but not too hard to make me lose my love for it or interest in it.
Perhaps if I meet Gatsas on the street one day in the future, I'll discuss this issue with him, before introducing his large nose to my right fist.
Quote from: intergraph19 on May 04, 2006, 06:40 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 06:31 PM NHFT
Quote from: freedominnh on May 04, 2006, 06:30 PM NHFT
This new bill will have to be accepted by House committee and be introduced in the House. Fillibuster time.
Will it? I thought it would be enrolled shortly, seeing as it's impotent.
If it just establishes a committee, does it need house approval?
Yes, if they change the bill in any way it goes back to the house for a vote. It goes back and forth until it is either voted down or agreed upon by both.
Yes there must be concurrence of both Houses, committe of conference, or the bill will die. At least the money will not be taken..
Howie assures me that "It ain't over yet!!!!!!!!"
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 06:43 PM NHFT
Just got off the phone with Joel, who organized the rally at the State House the other weekend.
He definitely recommends people make it to the meeting:
9:00 a.m. Rooms 210-211, LOB (Google map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Legislative+Office+Building,+concord,+NH&cid=43208056,-71538056,4379367068487050633&ll=43.206881,-71.538548&spn=0.005232,0.007403&om=1))
(I earlier misread the calendar, the meeting starts at 9AM)
If they know we are watching, it makes a difference!
What day is that?
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 06:47 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 06:43 PM NHFT
Just got off the phone with Joel, who organized the rally at the State House the other weekend.
He definitely recommends people make it to the meeting:
9:00 a.m. Rooms 210-211, LOB (Google map (http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&q=Legislative+Office+Building,+concord,+NH&cid=43208056,-71538056,4379367068487050633&ll=43.206881,-71.538548&spn=0.005232,0.007403&om=1))
(I earlier misread the calendar, the meeting starts at 9AM)
If they know we are watching, it makes a difference!
What day is that?
Tomorrow~! I am broadcasting this over and over again live right now.
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 06:49 PM NHFT
Tomorrow~! I am broadcasting this over and over again live right now.
I wish I could be there. I'll be there with you guys in spirit.
At least in this vote, I was represented. Gallus did concede that he had no negative feedback about this bill.
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 06:46 PM NHFT
Yes there must be concurrence of both Houses, committe of conference, or the bill will die. At least the money will not be taken..
Actually, they can still take the money. If the House doesn't concur, the bill will die. One possible course of action with HB 1582 now is to have the House amend it by balancing out the study committee. Currently the committee consists of:
2 Senators appointed by Gatsas
2 Representatives appointed by Scanlon
Commissioner of Safety
Emergancy Management Bureau head
Commisioner of DMV
Governor Lynch
State Treasurer
Bank Commissioner
Secretary of State
Attorney General
NH Police Chiefs Association
State Troopers Association
Professional Firefighters Association
If I wanted to create a committee to represent the interests of the police state, this is exaclty who I'd put on it. Try to get the House to put the ACLU, NHCASPIAN and other groups on the committee.
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 06:46 PM NHFT
Life is going to be hard thanks to this decision, but not too hard to make me lose my love for it or interest in it.
Perhaps if I meet Gatsas on the street one day in the future, I'll discuss this issue with him, before introducing his large nose to my right fist.
Braincleaner needed on Aisle 4. Aisle 4 Brain clean for irrational thoughts.
What's all the fuss with the Real ID Act about?
President Bush is expected to sign an $82 billion military spending bill soon that will, in part, create electronically readable, federally approved ID cards for Americans. The House of Representatives overwhelmingly approved the package--which includes the Real ID Act--on Thursday.
What does that mean for me?
Starting three years from now, if you live or work in the United States, you'll need a federally approved ID card to travel on an airplane, open a bank account, collect Social Security payments, or take advantage of nearly any government service. Practically speaking, your driver's license likely will have to be reissued to meet federal standards.
--
News.context
What's new:
The House of Representatives has approved an $82 billion military spending bill with an attachment that would mandate electronically readable ID cards for Americans. President Bush is expected to sign the bill.
Bottom line:
The Real ID Act would establish what amounts to a national identity card. State drivers' licenses and other such documents would have to meet federal ID standards established by the Department of Homeland Security.
--
The Real ID Act hands the Department of Homeland Security the power to set these standards and determine whether state drivers' licenses and other ID cards pass muster. Only ID cards approved by Homeland Security can be accepted "for any official purpose" by the feds.
How will I get one of these new ID cards?
You'll still get one through your state motor vehicle agency, and it will likely take the place of your drivers' license. But the identification process will be more rigorous.
For instance, you'll need to bring a "photo identity document," document your birth date and address, and show that your Social Security number is what you had claimed it to be. U.S. citizens will have to prove that status, and foreigners will have to show a valid visa.
State DMVs will have to verify that these identity documents are legitimate, digitize them and store them permanently. In addition, Social Security numbers must be verified with the Social Security Administration.
What's going to be stored on this ID card?
At a minimum: name, birth date, sex, ID number, a digital photograph, address, and a "common machine-readable technology"
that Homeland Security will decide on. The card must also sport "physical security features designed to prevent tampering, counterfeiting, or duplication of the document for fraudulent purposes."
Homeland Security is permitted to add additional requirements--such as a fingerprint or retinal scan--on top of those. We won't know for a while what these additional requirements will be.
Why did these ID requirements get attached to an "emergency" military spending bill?
Because it's difficult for politicians to vote against money that will go to the troops in Iraq and tsunami relief. The funds cover ammunition, weapons, tracked combat vehicles, aircraft, troop housing, death benefits, and so on.
The House already approved a standalone version of the Real ID Act in February, but by a relatively close margin of 261-161. It was expected to run into some trouble in the Senate. Now that it's part of an Iraq spending bill, senators won't want to vote against it.
What's the justification for this legislation anyway?
Its supporters say that the Real ID Act is necessary to hinder terrorists, and to follow the ID card recommendations that the 9/11 Commission made last year.
It will "hamper the ability of terrorist and criminal aliens to move freely throughout our society by requiring that all states require proof of lawful presence in the U.S. for their drivers' licenses to be accepted as identification for federal purposes such as boarding a commercial airplane, entering a federal building, or a nuclear power plant," Rep. F. James Sensenbrenner, a Wisconsin Republican, said during the debate Thursday.
You said the ID card will be electronically readable. What does that mean?
The Real ID Act says federally accepted ID cards must be "machine readable," and lets Homeland Security determine the details. That could end up being a magnetic strip, enhanced bar code, or radio frequency identification (RFID) chips.
In the past, Homeland Security has indicated it likes the concept of RFID chips. The State Department is already going to be embedding RFID devices in passports, and Homeland Security wants to issue RFID-outfitted IDs to foreign visitors who enter the country at the Mexican and Canadian borders. The agency plans to start a yearlong test of the technology in July at checkpoints in Arizona, New York and Washington state.
Will state DMVs share this information?
Yes. In exchange for federal cash, states must agree to link up their databases. Specifically, the Real ID Act says it hopes to "provide electronic access by a state to information contained in the motor vehicle databases of all other states."
Is this legislation a done deal?
Pretty much. The House of Representatives approved the package on Thursday by a vote of 368-58. Only three of the "nay" votes were Republicans; the rest were Democrats. The Senate is scheduled to vote on it next week and is expected to approve it as well.
White House spokesman Scott McClellan has told reporters "the president supports" the standalone Real ID Act, and the Bush administration has come out with an official endorsement. As far back as July 2002, the Bush administration has been talking about assisting "the states in crafting solutions to curtail the future abuse of drivers' licenses by terrorist organizations."
Who were the three Republicans who voted against it?
Reps. Howard Coble of North Carolina, John Duncan of Tennessee, and Ron Paul of Texas.
Paul has warned that the Real ID Act "establishes a national ID card" and "gives authority to the Secretary of Homeland Security to unilaterally add requirements as he sees fit."
Is this a national ID card?
It depends on whom you ask. Barry Steinhardt, director of the American Civil Liberties Union's technology and liberty program, says: "It's going to result in everyone, from the 7-Eleven store to the bank and airlines, demanding to see the ID card. They're going to scan it in. They're going to have all the data on it from the front of the card...It's going to be not just a national ID card but a national database."
At the moment, state driver's licenses aren't easy for bars, banks, airlines and so on to swipe through card readers because they're not uniform; some may have barcodes but no magnetic stripes, for instance, and some may lack both. Steinhardt predicts the federalized IDs will be a gold mine for government agencies and marketers. Also, he notes that the Supreme Court ruled last year that police can demand to see ID from law-abiding U.S. citizens.
Will it be challenged in court?
Maybe. "We're exploring whether there are any litigation possibilities here," says the ACLU's Steinhardt.
One possible legal argument would challenge any requirement for a photograph on the ID card as a violation of religious freedom. A second would argue that the legislation imposes costs on states without properly reimbursing them.
When does it take effect?
The Real ID Act takes effect "three years after the date of the enactment" of the legislation. So if the Senate and Bush give it the thumbs-up this month, its effective date would be sometime in May 2008.
FROM: http://news.com.com/FAQ+How+Real+ID+will+affect+you/2100-1028_3-5697111.html
ref
http://www.epic.org/privacy/id_cards/
http://thomas.loc.gov/cgi-bin/bdquery/z?d109:h.r.00418:
Quote from: Tunga on May 04, 2006, 06:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 06:46 PM NHFT
Life is going to be hard thanks to this decision, but not too hard to make me lose my love for it or interest in it.
Perhaps if I meet Gatsas on the street one day in the future, I'll discuss this issue with him, before introducing his large nose to my right fist.
Braincleaner needed on Aisle 4. Aisle 4 Brain clean for irrational thoughts.
I can rationalize all of my thoughts :)
I would like to see the federal government's power to coerce the states into accepting unconstitutional demands by witholding federal tax dollars as a punishment for failure to enact federal legislation explored by a court.
Hopefully every single one of them feels this come back and bite them.
And hopefully, all of the nine experience good fortune. Especially Gallus. He was with us on the smoking ban, on the self-defense bill, on this... Plus, he has a cool moustache.
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 07:40 PM NHFT
And hopefully, all of the nine experience good fortune. Especially Gallus. He was with us on the smoking ban, on the self-defense bill, on this... Plus, he has a cool moustache.
He also was the lone Republican in favor of drug legalization.
Gallus is da man!
Quote from: d_goddard on May 04, 2006, 07:55 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 04, 2006, 07:40 PM NHFT
And hopefully, all of the nine experience good fortune. Especially Gallus. He was with us on the smoking ban, on the self-defense bill, on this... Plus, he has a cool moustache.
He also was the lone Republican in favor of drug legalization.
Gallus is da man!
Wow! I never knew he was so libertarian. I mean, in his votes.
Many more prosperous years for Gallus! We can never always agree but he seems like a good politician!
couple quick thoughts for how to react:
maybe standing at the entrance to the senate chamber with a shirt that says ARTICLE 10 ?
remember the best place to be to catch their attention as they first enter the building is the driveway on the north side of the LOB
i am tied up tomorrow tho so the two days you've seen me may be it for this week.
Wow... I can't leave NH unsupervised for a second. I went to the store, then cooked supper, and come back to find five pages of all-hell-broke-loose!
The 6-0 OTP vote disguised some serious machiavellian manipulation. My head is still spinning from reading the play-by-play.
Gatsas is a snake.
Gallus is earning my respect more and more. I'm about to send him a thank you note. I'm glad he's representing my future district.
Kevin
These guys have no interest in protecting us from the federal government. We will have to stand up to them ourselves.
You could mail them your cut up drivers license as a momento.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 04, 2006, 09:27 PM NHFT
These guys have no interest in protecting us from the federal government. We will have to stand up to them ourselves.
You could mail them your cut up drivers license as a momento.
I will not only not vote for Gregg, Bass or Bradley or Roberge ever again, I will be the first to go to jail for not complying with the Real ID act.
They can put me in jail! (Heck I have no other way of getting a vacation and no one will miss me! )
My thank-you to Gallus:
To: john gallus <john.gallus@leg.state.nh.us>
From: Kevin Craig <kbcraig@pobox.com>
Subject: Thank you for supporting HB 1582
Thank you for your principled stand against the amendment to gut HB 1582. Thank you for supporting the bill as passed by the House, to prohibit participation in RealID.
I don't know what Machiavellian twists and turns this bill will face in conference committee, but I learned today that we can't for one moment take our eyes off of those who seek to further control, number, collate, staple, spindle, fold and mutilate us.
I was shocked and pleased when you read my email opposing the smoking ban into the Senate record. From that issue, you may rightly infer that I will always strongly oppose greater government regulation of our lives. RealID is the ULTIMATE government regulation, enabling total control of where we may go, what we may buy, and how we may save our money.
If New Hampshire rejects RealID, I believe it will be the first of many states to do so. But even if NH becomes an island, it will be an island of freedom, beckoning even more freedom lovers to move.
Thank you again for your vote, and your support of Liberty. We will be vacationing in Lancaster and Berlin in June, and I hope to get to shake your hand.
Kevin Craig
Nash, Texas
Great men in history have spoken here.
[attachment deleted by admin]
This is not one of them. He is too busy on his knees servicing the overlords in Washington, while 14 Republicans wait in line to service him.
[attachment deleted by admin]
The citizens watch the display.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Today the sun set, as the founders wept... it was just another day for government.
[attachment deleted by admin]
Ask not for whom the internment camps are being built. They are being built for thee.
I don't know what to say... I feel like I just experienced one of lifes defining moments, one of the bad kinds. I feel this is one of those moments where I'll look back and think "this is where it all started to go downhill". Obviously it started to go downhill a long time ago, but this is definately a checkpoint...
Quote from: AlanM on May 04, 2006, 11:04 PM NHFT
Ask not for whom the internment camps are being built. They are being built for thee.
Hey all the cool people will be there.
Excellent, Roger. Thank you.
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 04, 2006, 11:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on May 04, 2006, 11:04 PM NHFT
Ask not for whom the internment camps are being built. They are being built for thee.
Hey all the cool people will be there.
Wouldn't it be great if they decided to fence off NH and turn it into a big internment camp? I can't think of a place I'd rather be. "Don't trow me into dat briar patch!" ;D
Kevin
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 04, 2006, 11:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on May 04, 2006, 11:04 PM NHFT
Ask not for whom the internment camps are being built. They are being built for thee.
Hey all the cool people will be there.
I'll try to find you. It won't be easy, I'm sure, what with the large numbers of folks in attendance.
Had a hell of a day...
I could tell you about the bad stuff, but that wouldn't be any fun.
Met Traveler, and other good folks. It was a beautiful day, talked to nice people, including a lengthy talk with a State Trooper who was very nice.
Got interviewed by a reporter from the Concord Monitor. Found out that the powers that be were aware of the video from the rally and it worried them some. >:D
This AIN'T over folks. Hold fast! Stay the path.
Yes, Evil came here today. But Evil is UNABLE to extinguish the fire of Liberty. It is only when good men do nothing that Evil wins.
Hold fast & stay the path! We have many years of much BS to cut through - and we will.
Several of us witnessed this prosses for the first time this week. (It is a very disturbing specticle.) Some of us will continue to take this battle to the street.
This week we did both - together - and support grew. Not as much as we had wished, but if you were here, you saw Liberty nearly overtake statism on this isssue. It was an up-hill battle from the start, and we nearly pushed it over the top. Hold fast! Continue to push. No one said it would be easy.
The tide is turning my freinds. Make no mistake about that. The tide is turning toward Liberty!
Stay the path!
Amen to that, John. Our movement is growing and becoming more potent. The statists really had to scramble to get past this hurdle, and we'll keep making the hurdles larger, and larger, and larger.
The rhetoric really did boil down to liberty vs. statism today. Liberty did not win but it gained a lot of ground -- we are becoming a force and they damn well know it.
It's time for an Article 10 Coalition
:)
I second that ,Jim :icon_pirat:
In the gallery,a man came up to me and Roger and asked what will happen if the bill fails.We sent him to Jenn.I notice that he gave her a card that said appellate litigator on it.Maybe,we can tie them up in legal paperwork.It seems to work well for the big corporations......then,there is always article 10 ;).
Why do we talk about this like this is a victory?
Even if this bill DOES pass, all we're proving is that we're getting better at stopping or slowing down the spread of statism.
It will be the day when our bills for repealing bad bills start to pass, and our bills for REAL tax cuts come to pass, and our bills to cut cops and other government workers from the being paid w/ our money, and our bills to repeal regulations that we'll actually start making some forward progress.
Not that slowing down or stopping the backwards progress isn't a good thing -- IT IS. If the NH government simply stays the same size (Nominally -- none of this allowing it to increase w/ inflation or population nonsense.) we'll have won in the long run.
But compliment yourselves for what really going on. Compliment yourselves on (or, hopefully not, almost) protecting yourselves and your (soon to be my) state from further government expansion and abuse.
Then you'll have the words (they won't be overused) for complimenting yourselves when we DO actually start dissembling the state.
We've still got a long way to go. :-\ This is going to be a long war. Keep your heads in the game.
Tracy
P.S. Forgive me for my pessimism. But these shenanagans that I'm seeing by the NH Senate on this issue depress me.
This will be a little long, even though I edited it down a few times.
I put a lot of thought into the following; as such, I'd appreciate it if you can read it carefully.
Maybe even read it twice. And take 15 minutes to reflect before responding. ;)
A few sobering thoughts on yesterday
- HB 1582 did in fact pass. Yes, it passed as an amended version. But it was not summarily killed. That was also a possibilty; we watched many good biils (like HCR 25 (http://generalcourt.org/bills/2006/HCR25)) get killed yesterday. Think about that.
- We truly have no idea how much pressure was applied from the Republican Party in Washington (http://gregg.senate.gov/sitepages/contact.cfm). Yet one Republican Senator, Gallus (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/members/senate01.asp), stood up to it. This man deserves our full support (and then some) when the time comes.
- The other Republicans weaseled their way out of making a decision yesterday, by voting for the Amended bill. So the real question is, who introduced that Amendment?
- These Republicans preserved our Liberties -- against massive lobbying and "80% of the public" -- on the Smoking Ban issue. If the Democrats had their way, 1177 would have passed with no problem. Think about that. It would be self-defeating to punish every single Republican for this vote.
- Per the above points, one or two Republican Senators are the "Bad Guys" here. Gatsas did everything he could to beat this. I was not in the gallery and so am not 100% sure of this, but if Barnes introduced the amendment, he's Bad Guy #2. Our ire should be for these two, the real guys who gutted 1582, not everyone else who followed them. They were the enablers.
- This ain't over yet. The Senate deferred the real decision. This just means we have to be patient and have the staying power to fight longer.
Action Plan
- Make sure we have someone in every single relevant committee meeting (such as this morning's)
- Make sure the House passes the amended bill, and gets the right people on the study committee
- Make sure the study committee has lots of people testify to dispel the Fed's fear tactics
- Make sure the committee recommends NH opt out of Federal Real-ID
As such... I don't think the time is yet for full-on CD.
In fact, I think it would be
hugely counterproductive; it would make the committee - that
will now be formed, only if the House approves the amended bill - think that the people supporting 1582 are acting on pure emotion, not on a rational analysis of the facts.
The committee gives its final report in November.
Do you believe in this strongly enough to work the process for 7 months?
Ted Gatsas and Judd Gregg think we don't... they calculate that Real-ID will come to pass, because we don't.
But I know different!
Quote from: KBCraig on May 04, 2006, 09:25 PM NHFT
Wow... I can't leave NH unsupervised for a second. I went to the store, then cooked supper, and come back to find five pages of all-hell-broke-loose!
The 6-0 OTP vote disguised some serious machiavellian manipulation. My head is still spinning from reading the play-by-play.
Gatsas is a snake.
Gallus is earning my respect more and more. I'm about to send him a thank you note. I'm glad he's representing my future district.
Kevin
He's also the majority whip, which is somewhat powerful at least.
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on May 04, 2006, 11:05 PM NHFT
I don't know what to say... I feel like I just experienced one of lifes defining moments, one of the bad kinds. I feel this is one of those moments where I'll look back and think "this is where it all started to go downhill". Obviously it started to go downhill a long time ago, but this is definately a checkpoint...
I've found that analogies only confuse life. There's no hill here, this is just one battle lost.
The best part is, win or lose, none of us have to get a RealID. Win or lose any of these battles, life goes on.
Denis -
Sen. Barnes Floor Amendment{2177}(New Title) RC 14Y-9N, AA
So Barnes moved to amend and change the title (likely to something like "Establishing a committee to explore the possibility of New Hampshire's withdrawl from the federal ID system.")
Lucky for me, Gallus is the one that I get to vote yes or no for, and so far his vote has been the best of the senate, on all the issues I'm following and emailing him about.
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 09:44 PM NHFT
I will not only not vote for Gregg, Bass or Bradley or Roberge ever again, I will be the first to go to jail for not complying with the Real ID act.
They can put me in jail! (Heck I have no other way of getting a vacation and no one will miss me! )
We will not forget you in there or let anyone else forget.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 04:48 AM NHFT
As such... I don't think the time is yet for full-on CD.
In fact, I think it would be hugely counterproductive; it would make the committee - that will now be formed, only if the House approves the amended bill - think that the people supporting 1582 are acting on pure emotion, not on a rational analysis of the facts.
Do you believe in this strongly enough to work the process for 7 months?
If the government in their actions now, then we should stand up to them. There is no issue of "timing" of civil disobedience as far as I see. It doesn't have to be public or for the benefit of this committee or the senate. You just have to stand up to them like Fredrick Douglass said.
The good news is that NH has already stood up to the Feds more than other states. We as people can do the rest. :)
Do you ever feel like you are on a huge government created treadmill, like a gerbil in a cage? Then jump off and instantly the frustration levels go down.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 04:48 AM NHFT
one or two Republican Senators are the "Bad Guys" here.
Good one. I bet you voted for Bush in 2004.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 05, 2006, 05:59 AM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 04:48 AM NHFT
As such... I don't think the time is yet for full-on CD.
In fact, I think it would be hugely counterproductive; it would make the committee - that will now be formed, only if the House approves the amended bill - think that the people supporting 1582 are acting on pure emotion, not on a rational analysis of the facts.
Do you believe in this strongly enough to work the process for 7 months?
If the government in their actions now, then we should stand up to them. There is no issue of "timing" of civil disobedience as far as I see. It doesn't have to be public or for the benefit of this committee or the senate. You just have to stand up to them like Fredrick Douglass said.
The good news is that NH has already stood up to the Feds more than other states. We as people can do the rest. :)
Do you ever feel like you are on a huge government created treadmill, like a gerbil in a cage? Then jump off and instantly the frustration levels go down.
Amen brother Russell...
The 2 party see-saw just whittles our freedoms as it tilts back and forth.
Yesterday it was the Democrats who stood and spoke of the police state... it was their SSN that started the process.
We will be told that we really should wait until the implimentation of Real ID in 2008 to do anything. We shouldn't alienate our friends in the
Fascist Republican Party. Well today they are the biggest threat to freedom that our country has ever seen.
When the next election cycle comes around our choice will be Hitler or Stalin.
As someone that has worked for and been owned by the government I said to hell with the liberty murdering bastards along time ago.
What was I doing... Oh yeah, living my life as unfettered as possible. Almost got sucked into the vortex...
(http://timcondon.info/skygun.gif)
when reform is not possible, revolution is necessary
We need to prevent them from taking the $3M because, as some Senators said yesterday, this is DE FACTO acceptance of the federal program.
The committee I fear, is stacked with all the wrong people. So much for fairness.
And those 14 ought to be reminded, especially the ones who were on the committee that voted OTP 6-0, that despite the nice piece Sheila read at the outset recommending they pass 1582 as was originally intended, we fully know what happened and who influenced them.
We need to let them know that when it comes to NH we don't need any DC influence, they have no business telling our Senators what to do, and if this marching order continues to come down we will remove those people from office.
We will not forget at election time!
Also, something is being done to push this back at the fed level:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50057
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 06:46 PM NHFT
Yes there must be concurrence of both Houses, committe of conference, or the bill will die. At least the money will not be taken..
Wouldn't the default, in absence of HB1582, be to take the money?
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
"Grant filmed side conversations and passing crowds, but he had to curtail his information-gathering hours before the vote, when Senate staffers caught him trying to connect to the P.A. system. The camera was fine, security told him, but he couldn't tap into the sound box because he didn't have a press pass issued by the state."
Roger, it's easy to get a press pass, just apply for one and you will have it. CNHT has them.
Quote from: katdillon on May 05, 2006, 07:21 AM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 04, 2006, 06:46 PM NHFT
Yes there must be concurrence of both Houses, committe of conference, or the bill will die. At least the money will not be taken..
Wouldn't the default, in absence of HB1582, be to take the money?
If they take the money we are screwed because it is De Facto acceptance.
I am writing to the 14 now to express this and to chide them from taking marching orders from DC.
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
"Grant filmed side conversations and passing crowds, but he had to curtail his information-gathering hours before the vote, when Senate staffers caught him trying to connect to the P.A. system. The camera was fine, security told him, but he couldn't tap into the sound box because he didn't have a press pass issued by the state."
Roger, it's easy to get a press pass, just apply for one and you will have it. CNHT has them.
Yes I can go to the State Police and get my ID. :)
The irony was thick.
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:43 AM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
"Grant filmed side conversations and passing crowds, but he had to curtail his information-gathering hours before the vote, when Senate staffers caught him trying to connect to the P.A. system. The camera was fine, security told him, but he couldn't tap into the sound box because he didn't have a press pass issued by the state."
Roger, it's easy to get a press pass, just apply for one and you will have it. CNHT has them.
Yes I can go to the State Police and get my ID. :)
The irony was thick.
No you get it at the post office I believe, it's not a police thing. There is not much to it...they give one to everyone.
Maybe we all should get one? >:D
Quote from: Dreepa on May 05, 2006, 07:53 AM NHFT
Maybe we all should get one? >:D
Yeah, you simply register as 'press'. They won' t know any more about you than they already do, so it's worth it.
Ok here is the letter I am sending, comments and suggestions please?
Dear Senators,
I am writing to you because you were one of the 14 Republicans who on May 4th 2006 voted to amend HB 1582 away from its original intent, despite the unanimous 6-0 "OTP" vote of the study committee.
The bill as I understand it, will now simply call for another commission which will then vote whether to take the $3M federal money that is being offered to start complying with the National Real ID act, while further studying the issue.
This is simply ludicrous! Not only would acceptance of the money be 'de facto' acceptance of participation in Real ID, but it would hardly be enough for the already beleaguered DMV to complete the program. It is estimated that $30M or more would be needed for full compliance. Is this something you want to foist on the taxpayers of NH???
The committee is stacked with all the wrong people. Where are the citizens represented?
Additionally I and others fully understand what happened to change the minds of several of you who previously had voted OTP and just who was responsible for this influence. Despite the fact that I am a registered Republican, I do not feel that our local Senators should be taking marching orders from the likes of George Bush, Judd Gregg and Jeb Bradley, and instead should be doing what is best for NH. Our local Senators should be doing what the people of NH want, not what Washington DC wants, and the breadth of support for HB 1582 in its original form was proof of what the people wanted.
One of the scare tactics used on you was that this system would better help catch terrorists and illegal immigrants. Even if one thinks we have a problem with illegals in NH, I ask you, how can this help, since when illegals have been caught and handed over, the ICE traditionally has refused to take action? Anyone who knows what happened in New Ipswich, NH with police chief Garrett Chamberlain and the illegals he detained, is aware of this.
Instead of helping to catch terrorists or other perceived criminals, the possibility for abuse of this system against regular law-abiding citizens is far too Orwellian.
Please remember that if you as Republicans continue to take your marching orders from Washington DC and ignore the people of NH, we will not forget at re-election time.
Respectfully yours,
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 06:57 AM NHFT
Also, something is being done to push this back at the fed level:
http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=50057
June 6, 2006
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on May 04, 2006, 11:05 PM NHFT
I don't know what to say... I feel like I just experienced one of lifes defining moments, one of the bad kinds. I feel this is one of those moments where I'll look back and think "this is where it all started to go downhill". Obviously it started to go downhill a long time ago, but this is definately a checkpoint...
I actually think that for those of us in NH it is a learning thing. All good things usually start from something bad.
On this issue we need to be reminded of the words of John Paul Jones.
'I have not yet begun to fight.'
We need to follow this issue daily until November.
Think we can make a schedule so that someone is outside everyday with a sign?
Will outsiders be on this commission? Katherine should be on it.
Did you guys read Barnes' quote in the paper?
Quote
"We are at war," he said. "I'm very happy that our government is doing this. I'll give some of my rights up: I don't mind going to the airport and taking my shoes off so some bum isn't coming along and blowing up the airplane I'm riding on."
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
A little editing problem there. There was no introduction of you before that last paragraph.
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:46 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:43 AM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
"Grant filmed side conversations and passing crowds, but he had to curtail his information-gathering hours before the vote, when Senate staffers caught him trying to connect to the P.A. system. The camera was fine, security told him, but he couldn't tap into the sound box because he didn't have a press pass issued by the state."
Roger, it's easy to get a press pass, just apply for one and you will have it. CNHT has them.
Yes I can go to the State Police and get my ID. :)
The irony was thick.
No you get it at the post office I believe, it's not a police thing. There is not much to it...they give one to everyone.
From the post office? So it'a a Federal pass not state?
Quote from: dead president on May 05, 2006, 06:28 AM NHFT
Something about something[/size][/b][/center]
Watch out, I got silenced by the Vast Right Wing Conspiracy! ;) ;D see my edit a few pages back. I was quoted, too :-X
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 05, 2006, 08:01 AM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:46 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:43 AM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
"Grant filmed side conversations and passing crowds, but he had to curtail his information-gathering hours before the vote, when Senate staffers caught him trying to connect to the P.A. system. The camera was fine, security told him, but he couldn't tap into the sound box because he didn't have a press pass issued by the state."
Roger, it's easy to get a press pass, just apply for one and you will have it. CNHT has them.
Yes I can go to the State Police and get my ID. :)
The irony was thick.
No you get it at the post office I believe, it's not a police thing. There is not much to it...they give one to everyone.
From the post office? So it'a a Federal pass not state?
I'm not sure -- I'll ask Ed. It's a pretty benign process.
"There will be civil disobedience. Every DMV is a protest point,"said Roger Grant
Boy .... I haven't been in one of those in a long time. I don't miss them. I have never seen one of these offices in NH.
What is required to obtain this press pass, and what does it entitle me to? I'll get one this weekend if I can.
Does it expire?
Quote from: russellkanning on May 05, 2006, 08:06 AM NHFT
"There will be civil disobedience. Every DMV is a protest point,"said Roger Grant
Boy .... I haven't been in one of those in a long time. I don't miss them. I have never seen one of these offices in NH.
The one in my town is at State Troop F (I think that's the letter).
When I went for my license, nobody else was there, I took the test alone and had no waits. Must be in cities or something that they have these delays.
Does anybody know if non-driver IDs expire?
QuotePer the above points, one or two Republican Senators are the "Bad Guys" here. Gatsas did everything he could to beat this. I was not in the gallery and so am not 100% sure of this, but if Barnes introduced the amendment, he's Bad Guy #2. Our ire should be for these two, the real guys who gutted 1582, not everyone else who followed them. They were the enablers.
Denis-
I disagree. There was no way for the other Republican Senators to consider the amendment anything but a bold-faced political move. In stark contrast, they had a choice between their constituents and their party in Washington. In Stark contrast, they had a choice between living free or dying. They chose death for me and my family. If Letourneau voted 100% pro-liberty the rest of the session, I still could not vote for him; with the chips down and our beliefs directly on the line, he chose his party. With the other Senators, he showed what is most important to him.
New Hampshire Republicans have historically been more liberty-friendly than the national party. However, with the majorities in Washington, Bush's fundamental need for loyalty and obedience is killing the party. I expect some dissent this election year (unfortunately over immigration), but a big break in 2008 as the lame duck leaves. Our Senators could have provided leadership to a renewal of their party for the whole nation; instead they stuck with the lame horse. They cannot be trusted.
I will be looking at the liberty bona fides of my Reps, and encouraging someone to run against Letourneau. If Rep. Kurk could move to Derry, that would be fantastic!
As was posted here earlier, currently the committee consists of these people with only the one * who we could have been sure was in support of 1582 in its original format. Perhaps we should divide up the list and target them for letter a writing/phone calling campaign? Help me out here, I can't do everything. ;)
2 Senators appointed by Gatsas
2 Representatives appointed by Scanlon
Commissioner of Safety
Emergency Management Bureau
Commisioner of DMV
Governor Lynch*
State Treasurer
Bank Commissioner
Secretary of State
Attorney General
NH Police Chiefs Association
State Troopers Association
Professional Firefighters Association
QuotePer the above points, one or two Republican Senators are the "Bad Guys" here. Gatsas did everything he could to beat this. I was not in the gallery and so am not 100% sure of this, but if Barnes introduced the amendment, he's Bad Guy #2. Our ire should be for these two, the real guys who gutted 1582, not everyone else who followed them. They were the enablers.
Denis, they were all bad guys, esp the ones who voted in the committee for OTP then turned coat.
I was appalled that Sheila could read such a letter to the Senators appealing to them to pass 1582 as is, then make a complete about face within the next two hours and vote for the amended version and I have let them know this.
On the other hand, I heard she tabled 626 which is a purely NH issue, and which she is not afraid to vote for the constituents' rights.
Think we can get Kurk to run for Senate?
By the way I was not prevented from recording video.
I have the only footage of the event.
An hour and 15 min. of holding the camera steady, beads of sweat rolling down my face. They all were aware of my camera.
I will have my way with it... they will be presented in my terms, on my schedule. Meanwhile I have to make up for the revenue I gave up to cover this issue.
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 08:45 AM NHFT
They all were aware of my camera.
I will have my way with it... they will be presented in my terms,
;D >:D ;D
A google video it will go.
Let the viral spiral continue.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 05, 2006, 08:06 AM NHFT
"There will be civil disobedience. Every DMV is a protest point,"said Roger Grant
Boy .... I haven't been in one of those in a long time. I don't miss them. I have never seen one of these offices in NH.
Gee Russell, would have thought you would be happy that instead of me just slinking away I politely made an issue of it. I stood toe to toe with the Sargeant-at-Arms, and the head of security. Stood outside the Senate chamber dealing with whoever they sent to talk to me. Until the reporter came up to me and found out what was going on. Then I got Jenn in front of her, then I got John in front of her.
I asked John to present himself as from NHfree.com too bad that didn't make the story.
By the end of my interaction the Sargeant-at-Arms asked me for a No Real ID badge... he doesn't like it.
They allowed me to do things they wouldn't allow other spectators to do. And I turned a negative into a positive.
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060505/REPOSITORY/605050360
Quote
(Barnes) "We are at war," he said. "I'm very happy that our government is doing this. I'll give some of my rights up: I don't mind going to the airport and taking my shoes off so some bum isn't coming along and blowing up the airplane I'm riding on."
I think it's time for ambush video, Moore style. Accost Barnes on the sidewalk and ask him to be frisked and searched, open his briefcase, take off his shoes, etc. He won't mind, since it's for
security. After all, he has nothing to hide, right?
Quote
Grant filmed side conversations and passing crowds, but he had to curtail his information-gathering hours before the vote, when Senate staffers caught him trying to connect to the P.A. system. The camera was fine, security told him, but he couldn't tap into the sound box because he didn't have a press pass issued by the state.
>:D
Good try, Roger!
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 05, 2006, 08:58 AM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on May 05, 2006, 08:06 AM NHFT
"There will be civil disobedience. Every DMV is a protest point,"said Roger Grant
Boy .... I haven't been in one of those in a long time. I don't miss them. I have never seen one of these offices in NH.
Gee Russell, would have thought you would be happy ...
Of course I am. :)
Quote from: tracysaboe on May 05, 2006, 04:07 AM NHFT
P.S. Forgive me for my pessimism. But these shenanagans that I'm seeing by the NH Senate on this issue depress me.
Many people are cynical about politics, but it doesn't really hit them just how truly nasty it is until they actually get involved and see firsthand just how dirty politics really is. My work on the Manchester spending cap really drove this home for me, and I was really down about it because it was the maneuvering of lying politicians and state bureaucrats that killed it rather than the voters.
Its important to take it all in, learn from the experience, take it to the next level, and keep fighting. The statists are winning because honest people get depressed, burnt out and quit. Don't let it happen.
Also, move to New Hampshire. The activist network here is strong, and helps bolster morale when we lose battles. We will win more battles in time.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 09:22 AM NHFT
Quote from: tracysaboe on May 05, 2006, 04:07 AM NHFT
P.S. Forgive me for my pessimism. But these shenanagans that I'm seeing by the NH Senate on this issue depress me.
Many people are cynical about politics, but it doesn't really hit them just how truly nasty it is until they actually get involved and see firsthand just how dirty politics really is. My work on the Manchester spending cap really drove this home for me, and I was really down about it because it was the maneuvering of lying politicians and state bureaucrats that killed it rather than the voters.
Its important to take it all in, learn from the experience, take it to the next level, and keep fighting. The statists are winning because honest people get depressed, burnt out and quit. Don't let it happen.
Also, move to New Hampshire. The activist network here is strong, and helps bolster morale when we lose battles. We will win more battles in time.
Laws are like sausages. It's better not to see them being made.
Otto von Bismarck
German Prussian politician (1815 - 1898)
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 09:22 AM NHFT
Its important to take it all in, learn from the experience, take it to the next level, and keep fighting. The statists are winning because honest people get depressed, burnt out and quit. Don't let it happen.
Also, move to New Hampshire. The activist network here is strong, and helps bolster morale when we lose battles. We will win more battles in time.
yes
Quote from: Dreepa on May 05, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 09:22 AM NHFT
Its important to take it all in, learn from the experience, take it to the next level, and keep fighting. The statists are winning because honest people get depressed, burnt out and quit. Don't let it happen.
Also, move to New Hampshire. The activist network here is strong, and helps bolster morale when we lose battles. We will win more battles in time.
yes
Ditto. Been here fighting since 1989.
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:54 AM NHFT
Ok here is the letter I am sending, comments and suggestions please?
Dear Senators,
I am writing to you because you were one of the 14 Republicans who on May 4th 2006 voted to amend HB 1582 away from its original intent, despite the unanimous 6-0 "OTP" vote of the study committee.
...
Nice one!
I will by writing my own letter in a week or so... once I have better perspective.
I would suggest a separate letter to Martel, Gatsas, and Kenney -- the three who voted OTP in committee, and flipped in the full Senate :(
Quote from: toowm on May 05, 2006, 08:11 AM NHFT
If Rep. Kurk could move to Derry, that would be fantastic!
Hey I moved all the way from the hell-hole that is California just to get decent representation here in NH... surely you can scoot over to Weare? ;)
(I am just pullin' yer chain, hope that's obvious)
Anyway, I
love the idea of drafting Kurk into a Senate run.
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3642.0
Word on the street is that yesterday, Rep. Kurk successfully added the full language of the original HB 1582 to another bill, SB 399.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=1d871af7-4eae-4a0c-96a5-d84c240ebfe4
Jenn and I were present at this morning's Fiscal Committee.
The $3 mil on offer from the Feds was the first order of business.
It took less than 20 seconds to complete.
And the news is....
... wait for it....
.... keep waiting ...
.... getting good at this, aren't we? ....
They "tabled" it.
Which means, no decision until the next committee meeting, which is not yet scheduled.
We have not yet taken the money. Nor have we rejected it.
Kinda like yesterday's vote... the real Real-ID decision will come... later.
The powers that be are betting that passions run high, and are then spent and forgotten, like so many times in the past.
Not this time.
I'll keep en eye out, but anyone who finds out when the next Fiscal Committee meeting is, please do let us know here.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 10:04 AM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 07:54 AM NHFT
Ok here is the letter I am sending, comments and suggestions please?
Dear Senators,
I am writing to you because you were one of the 14 Republicans who on May 4th 2006 voted to amend HB 1582 away from its original intent, despite the unanimous 6-0 "OTP" vote of the study committee.
...
Nice one!
I will by writing my own letter in a week or so... once I have better perspective.
I would suggest a separate letter to Martel, Gatsas, and Kenney -- the three who voted OTP in committee, and flipped in the full Senate :(
Yeah don't forget Sheila too....I think I hit upon most of the ideas. The immigration one was really laughable, since they were handed people and didn't deport them and have no plans to! (Whether you think that should be done or not, the point was, it is not being done and won't be done even with a National ID and probably won't affect the efficiency of weeding out potential terrorists either!)
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 09:22 AM NHFT
Also, move to New Hampshire. The activist network here is strong, and helps bolster morale when we lose battles. We will win more battles in time.
Bullseye
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 10:08 AM NHFT
Jenn and I were present at this morning's Fiscal Committee.
The $3 mil on offer from the Feds was the first order of business.
It took less than 20 seconds to complete.
And the news is....tabled..
So Denis what about my idea to bombard the comm. members???
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 10:04 AM NHFT
I would suggest a separate letter to Martel, Gatsas, and Kenney -- the three who voted OTP in committee, and flipped in the full Senate :(
Now did these guys vote against 1582 or were they trying to vote against amending it?
Quote from: katdillon on May 05, 2006, 10:39 AM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 10:04 AM NHFT
I would suggest a separate letter to Martel, Gatsas, and Kenney -- the three who voted OTP in committee, and flipped in the full Senate :(
Now did these guys vote against 1582 or were they trying to vote against amending it?
They were on the study committee who voted OTP 6-0 but then voted for the amendment to relegate it to a study commission and for possible acceptance of the money.
I also made a new post to announce that as was reported to me last night from one of the people in attendance, HB 626 is basically dead! I heard from Senator Hassan on this, although she disagreed that it was the evil NHMA (her union people) who were behind it.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 04:48 AM NHFT
Yet one Republican Senator, Gallus (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/members/senate01.asp), stood up to it. This man deserves our full support (and then some) when the time comes.[/li][/list]
Senator Peter Bragdon (R-Amherst) also stood up to it.
Time is better than defeat. If they hold a committee meeting, perhaps someone can point out not only the high costs of inter-state document checking compliance, but also the fallacy that it will make us safer. How will you verify a birth certificate for someone 40 years old? Call up the office of vital records at that state? Long distance charges, the time to get someone, having to hire staff to field those calls at both your state and the other state, and the possibility that someone might bribe one person at one office of vital records in one state to say "yes, that birth certificate is valid".
The costs of compliance will be huge. If instead all our vital records are scanned into computer, accessible to every DMV agent in the country, is there any less potential for fraud? Can we be assured that no breech will occur in the system? It is wrong to believe that further identification will increase our security. Those who wish to do us harm will have no problem in getting said identification, because no matter how much the government tries, it will never be able to get the populace to go along with the measures necessary to actually identify the populace in such a foolproof method that no person not born here could obtain and identification card and do us harm.
In addition, all that ignores the fact, that not all of our threats are born abroad. The more secure our identification cards become, the less secure we as a nation become. For the false sense of security that a "secure" identification card carries with it will lead to increased real insecurity born of complacency.
Quote from: katdillon on May 05, 2006, 10:39 AM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 05, 2006, 10:04 AM NHFT
I would suggest a separate letter to Martel, Gatsas, and Kenney -- the three who voted OTP in committee, and flipped in the full Senate :(
Now did these guys vote against 1582 or were they trying to vote against amending it?
The vote-switchers were Martel, Roberge, Kenney and Barnes. Gatsas was not on the committee.
In my view, they would have been better off to ITL it or propose the gutting in committee. That way, they would have just been jerks. Now they're duplicitous lying jerks.
My understanding is that committees of conference do not usually include public hearings. They could schedule new hearings I suppose.
There will now be TWO committees of conference on this issue. One for HB 1582 and one for SB 399.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 10:59 AM NHFT
Time is better than defeat. If they hold a committee meeting, perhaps someone can point out not only the high costs of inter-state document checking compliance, but also the fallacy that it will make us safer. How will you verify a birth certificate for someone 40 years old? Call up the office of vital records at that state? Long distance charges, the time to get someone, having to hire staff to field those calls at both your state and the other state, and the possibility that someone might bribe one person at one office of vital records in one state to say "yes, that birth certificate is valid".
The costs of compliance will be huge. If instead all our vital records are scanned into computer, accessible to every DMV agent in the country, is there any less potential for fraud? Can we be assured that no breech will occur in the system? It is wrong to believe that further identification will increase our security. Those who wish to do us harm will have no problem in getting said identification, because no matter how much the government tries, it will never be able to get the populace to go along with the measures necessary to actually identify the populace in such a foolproof method that no person not born here could obtain and identification card and do us harm.
In addition, all that ignores the fact, that not all of our threats are born abroad. The more secure our identification cards become, the less secure we as a nation become. For the false sense of security that a "secure" identification card carries with it will lead to increased real insecurity born of complacency.
So, there's still hope?
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 10:59 AM NHFT
Time is better than defeat. If they hold a committee meeting, perhaps someone can point out not only the high costs of inter-state document checking compliance, but also the fallacy that it will make us safer
...
Great points, Jon. Precious little of this was discussed on the senate floor yesterday. The Democrats were backed into a corner by the Barnes amendment. Their own misguided assertion that New Hampshire's system is almost up to REAL ID standards further weakened their position and drove the debate toward further study. The Republicans insisted that REAL ID is not a national ID card, Judd Gregg is infallible, the Homeland Security director will never allow RFID, and New Hampshire citizens will be rendered helpless if the state opts out. Unfortunately, the debate never quite got around to whether the proposals in REAL ID will actually improve security. The senators were eager to claim they didn't have enough information about REAL ID, and opted to give congress the benefit of the doubt and simply "study" the issue later. I sincerely hope that the issues you brought up will be addressed and that the many distortions and exaggerations made by the Republicans can be brought to light in the committee.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 10:59 AM NHFT
Time is better than defeat. If they hold a committee meeting, perhaps someone can point out not only the high costs of inter-state document checking compliance, but also the fallacy that it will make us safer. How will you verify a birth certificate for someone 40 years old? Call up the office of vital records at that state? Long distance charges, the time to get someone, having to hire staff to field those calls at both your state and the other state, and the possibility that someone might bribe one person at one office of vital records in one state to say "yes, that birth certificate is valid".
You already have to show your birth certificate when you get your NH DL. So nothing will change there.
http://nh.gov/safety/dmv/driverlic/uscittran.html
I think that we should continue to 'sell' the reasons why RealID is a bad idea. This excerpt I feel expresses it well.
from August 9, 2004, by US Rep. Ron Paul
http://www.house.gov/paul/tst/tst2004/tst080904.htm
Every generation must resist the temptation to believe that it lives in the most dangerous time in American history. The threat of Islamic terrorism is real, but it is not the greatest danger ever faced by our nation. This is not to dismiss the threat of terrorism, but rather to put it in perspective. Those who seek to whip the nation into a frenzy of fear do a disservice to a country that expelled the British, fought two world wars, and stared down the Soviet empire.
Liberty is lost through complacency and a subservient mindset. When we accept or even welcome automobile checkpoints, random searches, mandatory identification cards, and paramilitary police in our streets, we have lost a vital part of our American heritage. America was born of protest, revolution, and mistrust of government. Subservient societies neither maintain nor deserve freedom for long.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 11:29 AM NHFT
The vote-switchers were Martel, Roberge, Kenney and Barnes. Gatsas was not on the committee.
In my view, they would have been better off to ITL it or propose the gutting in committee.
Bah, my bad, you're 100% correct. Gatsas just got under my skin; I typed his name cause it was stuck in my head. I failed to type Roberge because she seemed like such a trustable Thatercherite. Looks can be deceiving, eh?!
And yes, they
all weaseled, backed off from making a decision and taking a stand.
Well, all except for Gallus and Bragdon, that is :)
Anyway... the fight ain't over, the fat lady cleared her throat and then decided it wasn't time to sing yet.
Quote from: Dreepa on May 05, 2006, 12:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 10:59 AM NHFT
Time is better than defeat. If they hold a committee meeting, perhaps someone can point out not only the high costs of inter-state document checking compliance, but also the fallacy that it will make us safer. How will you verify a birth certificate for someone 40 years old? Call up the office of vital records at that state? Long distance charges, the time to get someone, having to hire staff to field those calls at both your state and the other state, and the possibility that someone might bribe one person at one office of vital records in one state to say "yes, that birth certificate is valid".
You already have to show your birth certificate when you get your NH DL. So nothing will change there.
http://nh.gov/safety/dmv/driverlic/uscittran.html
But they don't verify it, so if you forge one . . . how will they know under the current system?
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 01:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on May 05, 2006, 12:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 10:59 AM NHFT
Time is better than defeat. If they hold a committee meeting, perhaps someone can point out not only the high costs of inter-state document checking compliance, but also the fallacy that it will make us safer. How will you verify a birth certificate for someone 40 years old? Call up the office of vital records at that state? Long distance charges, the time to get someone, having to hire staff to field those calls at both your state and the other state, and the possibility that someone might bribe one person at one office of vital records in one state to say "yes, that birth certificate is valid".
You already have to show your birth certificate when you get your NH DL. So nothing will change there.
http://nh.gov/safety/dmv/driverlic/uscittran.html
But they don't verify it, so if you forge one . . . how will they know under the current system?
I don't think that REAL ID requires that either. REAL ID does require a SSN check though.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 01:07 PM NHFT
But they don't verify it, so if you forge one . . . how will they know under the current system?
Good point! Even the person who was arguing FOR this Real ID Act said you can easily forge a drivers license by getting one from the web.
So this means in order to be effective, there will be biometric/chip technology embedded in the newly compliant ones, which is what we don't want.
If you want to send your emails of dismay to the 14 here they are en masse:
carljean@worldpath.net, joseph.kenney@leg.state.nh.us, robert.boyce@leg.state.nh.us, robert.flanders@leg.state.nh.us, richard.green@leg.state.nh.us, rpojr@aol.com, patrick.murphy@leg.state.nh.us, charles.morse@leg.state.nh.us, thomas.eaton@leg.state.nh.us, senclegg@aol.com, ted.gatsas@leg.state.nh.us, jack.barnes@leg.state.nh.us, andre.martel@leg.state.nh.us, robert.letourneau@leg.state.nh.us
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
Word on the street is that yesterday, Rep. Kurk successfully added the full language of the original HB 1582 to another bill, SB 399.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=1d871af7-4eae-4a0c-96a5-d84c240ebfe4
HEY EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!Did you read what Ruger had to say?
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html)
Clause 5
5 Prohibition Against Participation in National Identification System. The general court finds that the public policy established by Congress in the Real ID Act of 2005, Public Law 109-13, is contrary and repugnant to Articles 1 through 10 of the New Hampshire constitution as well as Amendments 4 though 10 of the Constitution for the United States of America. Therefore, the state of New Hampshire shall not participate in a national identification card system; nor shall the department of safety amend the procedures for applying for a driver?s license under RSA 263 or an identification card under RSA 260:21.
Just keep adding the wording into bills until it passes. ;D
Awesome.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on May 05, 2006, 10:59 AM NHFT
Time is better than defeat.
I put that in my list of quotes. I really like that :)
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 05, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html)
Groovy.
This bill has passed the Senate & House and therefore is also headed for a Committee of Conference.
:)
I <3 Neal Kurk
Quote from: Dreepa on May 05, 2006, 12:42 PM NHFT
You already have to show your birth certificate when you get your NH DL. So nothing will change there.
http://nh.gov/safety/dmv/driverlic/uscittran.html
What about "social security card and account number, or proof that you are ineligible for one"
Is a "conscientious objection" proof of ineligibility?
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 05, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
Word on the street is that yesterday, Rep. Kurk successfully added the full language of the original HB 1582 to another bill, SB 399.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=1d871af7-4eae-4a0c-96a5-d84c240ebfe4
HEY EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!
Did you read what Ruger had to say?
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html)
Clause 5
5 Prohibition Against Participation in National Identification System. The general court finds that the public policy established by Congress in the Real ID Act of 2005, Public Law 109-13, is contrary and repugnant to Articles 1 through 10 of the New Hampshire constitution as well as Amendments 4 though 10 of the Constitution for the United States of America. Therefore, the state of New Hampshire shall not participate in a national identification card system; nor shall the department of safety amend the procedures for applying for a driver's license under RSA 263 or an identification card under RSA 260:21.
holy crap!passed both house and senate!
AN ACT relative to the powers of state government in the event of an incident or outbreak of communicable disease and prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national identification card system.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Also, for the record, here is the new iteration of 1582, as "amended" (read: rewritten) by the senate
QuoteSTATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
In the Year of Our Lord Two Thousand Six
AN ACT establishing a commission to study the REAL ID Act of 2005, Public Law 109-13.
Be it Enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives in General Court convened:
1 Commission Established. There is established a commission to study the REAL ID Act of 2005, Public Law 109-13.
2 Membership and Compensation.
I. The members of the commission shall be as follows:
(a) Two members of the senate, appointed by the president of the senate.
(b) Two members of the house of representatives, appointed by the speaker of the house of representatives.
(c) The commissioner of safety, or designee.
(d) The director of the division of emergency services, communications and management, department of safety, or designee.
(e) The director of motor vehicles, department of safety, or designee.
(f) The governor, or designee.
(g) The state treasurer, or designee.
(h) The bank commissioner, or designee.
(i) The secretary of state, or designee.
(j) The attorney general, or designee.
(k) A member of the New Hampshire Association of Chiefs of Police, appointed by that organization.
(l) A member of the New Hampshire Police Association, appointed by that organization.
(m) A member of the New Hampshire State Troopers Association, appointed by that organization.
(n) A member of the Professional Firefighters of New Hampshire - International Association of Firefighters, appointed by that organization.
II. Legislative members of the commission shall receive mileage at the legislative rate when attending to the duties of the commission.
3 Duties. The commission shall examine the state implications of adopting the REAL ID Act of 2005, including the requirements of the federal legislation, compliance deadlines, and federal funding opportunities. The commission shall assess the cost and benefit of New Hampshire's participation or nonparticipation in the national identification card system established by the Act.
4 Chairperson; Quorum. The members of the study commission shall elect a chairperson from among the members. The first meeting of the commission shall be called by the first-named senate member. The first meeting of the commission shall be held within 45 days of the effective date of this section. Nine members of the commission shall constitute a quorum.
5 Report. The commission shall report its findings and any recommendations for proposed legislation to the president of the senate, the speaker of the house of representatives, the senate clerk, the house clerk, the governor, and the state library on or before November 1, 2006.
6 Effective Date. This act shall take effect upon its passage.
Quote from: aries on May 05, 2006, 05:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 05, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
Word on the street is that yesterday, Rep. Kurk successfully added the full language of the original HB 1582 to another bill, SB 399.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=1d871af7-4eae-4a0c-96a5-d84c240ebfe4
HEY EVERYBODY!!!!!!!!!!
Did you read what Ruger had to say?
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2006/SB0399.html)
Clause 5
5 Prohibition Against Participation in National Identification System. The general court finds that the public policy established by Congress in the Real ID Act of 2005, Public Law 109-13, is contrary and repugnant to Articles 1 through 10 of the New Hampshire constitution as well as Amendments 4 though 10 of the Constitution for the United States of America. Therefore, the state of New Hampshire shall not participate in a national identification card system; nor shall the department of safety amend the procedures for applying for a driver?s license under RSA 263 or an identification card under RSA 260:21.
holy crap!
passed both house and senate!
AN ACT relative to the powers of state government in the event of an incident or outbreak of communicable disease and prohibiting New Hampshire from participating in a national identification card system.
:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Hmm where are you reading this and if 399 is passed then we don't have to worry about 1582?
The Senate must still approve of the amended SB 399.
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2006, 05:39 PM NHFT
Hmm where are you reading this and if 399 is passed then we don't have to worry about 1582?
http://gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/billstatus/default.asp
Put SB399 in bill number.
We better still worry about 1582, and lobby that committee. If the committee reports negatively, it could end up repealing or amending 399 after enactment, to allow NH to participate. This is going to take some serious constant vigilance.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 05, 2006, 05:53 PM NHFT
The Senate must still approve of the amended SB 399.
It will be a lot harder for the big-gov people to say no to this, and a lot easier for the people who "went with the flow" against their conscience to say yes to this.
Notice how Gatsas repeatedly avoided openly expressing disapproval or refusal of the terms of 1582, he just made it obvious through his actions.
When this bill meets the senate again, he will have to openly motion to remove the house amendment, or have one of his lackeys do it.
SB399 was amended in the House by Rep Kurk. It passed as amended. It will go on to conference committee.
HB1582 was amended in the Senate by Sen Barnes. It passed as amended. It will go on to conference committee.
It is a LOT easier to stop a bad law before it is passed than it is to get it repealed.
When corrupt politicians refuse to serve the oath they took, then sometimes public outcry gets results. I know that everyone from liberals to conservatives does not like the REAL ID.
Now is the time to get out there and lobby the public. Newspapers play a key role, cable access plays a key role, influential locals play a key role.
We're taking flak in this battle- that just means we're over the target people!
We can still win this and the new amended bill shows we still have some support.
I really don't like SB399 because it is obviously feeding into bird flu/terrorism paranoia, but if such a beast passes then by all means let's use their own strategies against them by attaching our language to this "must pass" bill.
The committee recommendation to "review" the REAL ID reads like a who's who of new world order police state. If I wanted to pass REAL ID, that's who I'd want. It will of course be a "big surprise" when they recommend NH accept the ID.
All it will take is some small terrorist or criminal act that the government will then use as a pretext for things like REAL ID acceptance. Let's hope no such crime happens.
Those who pass this "Real Id" can burn in Hell.
I will not.
Barnes: "I'm very happy that our government is doing this. I'll give some of my rights up: . . ."
Barnes is not only a turn-coat old fool, he is also rude.
Barnes was repetedly told (by his own "leader") to speak from behind his chair but, insisted upon yelling into Sen. Burling's ear, from directly behind Burling - and within inches. (we have pictures.)
Barnes is also the one who - in committee - talked of "a family of 5" going to "Disney Word" needing to get 5 passports- as if 5-year-olds needed IDs. Maybe with folks like Barnes and our other "small-government" Republicans in charge they will.
Don't blame Mass. people if the state is turning Blue. Just look at these boys in our own senate. Our own Republicans can not be trusted!
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 05, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Did you read what Ruger had to say?
Pat,
You are always on the ball, have high-quality information, and are willing to share.
Thanks for being there!
Quote from: Republidog on May 05, 2006, 09:59 PM NHFT
I really don't like SB399 because it is obviously feeding into bird flu/terrorism paranoia
Quite to the contrary....
My understanding (which could be totally wrong) is that, since the State of NH would be apportioning responsibility for these things
to itself, we would be putting ourselves in a position to refuse FEMA in the event of an emergency.
You remember FEMA... the Federal Agency that "helped" so well in the wake of Katrina...
399 is mostly harmless because it won't likely be necessary, and if it is, you can bet it will be ignored. But it is still something that no politican wants to hinder - "Represenatitve X went out of his way last campaign to hinder the passage of a direly needed bill to help NH citizens and the precious children in case of emergency."
If the US Congress can slip BAD laws in through unchecked amendments, maybe we can do the same for GOOD laws.
I think at least a few other laws in NH history have been smuggled through, mostly bad ones, though.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 06, 2006, 06:03 AM NHFT
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 05, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Did you read what Ruger had to say?
Pat,
You are always on the ball, have high-quality information, and are willing to share.
Thanks for being there!
Thanks, but I was just trying to get Ruger Mason's information (http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3299.msg64647#msg64647) through the noise that followed it.
The sweet John Connell wanted this pic posted:
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1934)
"Why is he looking at Roger like that?"
Cause I have the goods on them. :)
I was very respectful of the process and tried not to be an issue myself. And the staff (for the most part) was very nice about letting me get footage.
I got up extra early this morning to load the footage into my editing software... I got some good stuff. The audio is not as clean as it would have been if I had still been plugged into the PA. Fortunately the Senators where for the most part speaking loudly enough to hear well. It's just the other ambient noise and acoustics that would be better off the PA. When I get the time to edit this piece I'll see about syncing up the archived Senate recording, it will be a very tedious process but it will make it better.
There is some good drama... let's see if I can put it together into a reasonable short compelling piece.
I appreciate all the players that brought this issue forward.
addition:
PS. I have some good footage of your interview John... it comes of well, I'll use some of it. :) You did talk about NHfree.com and the New Hampshire Underground as the place you get informed about these issues.
And thanks for getting still pictures. :)
Quote from: John on May 05, 2006, 10:59 PM NHFT
Barnes is also the one who - in committee - talked of "a family of 5" going to "Disney Word" needing to get 5 passports- as if 5-year-olds needed IDs. Maybe with folks like Barnes and our other "small-government" Republicans in charge they will.
Yep, and Letourneau stated the same fiction on the senate floor!
Quote from: John on May 05, 2006, 10:11 PM NHFT
Those who pass this "Real Id" can burn in Hell.
You can tell John has been hanging around the polititians too much. They are disgusting him.
Yeah... it reminded me why I fled DC.
Seriously folks. This is just one bill. No one should be written off just because how they vote on one bill. After all, all the US Senators in the nation and every other state in the nation has already approved of this bill. Please, think of this as one part of a long term battle, not the end all and be all. We need to stop calling so many senators names and threatening them. You know, the federal government, NH media, and some people that oppose us and are on the ground in NH read this forum.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 06, 2006, 06:57 AM NHFT
Thanks, but I was just trying to get Ruger Mason's information (http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3299.msg64647#msg64647) through the noise that followed it.
I saw high-quality info and assumed you were the source. My bad, yet again!
Kudos for Ruger!
Ruger is cool!
These Senate fools don't know who we are yet. Their days are numbered. ;)
Quote from: TN-FSP on May 06, 2006, 10:18 AM NHFT
Seriously folks. This is just one bill. No one should be written off just because how they vote on one bill. After all, all the US Senators in the nation and every other state in the nation has already approved of this bill. Please, think of this as one part of a long term battle, not the end all and be all. We need to stop calling so many senators names and threatening them. You know, the federal government, NH media, and some people that oppose us and are on the ground in NH read this forum.
Some bills have an incredible impact. Most don't. When a senator votes BAD on the biggest bill of the year, he does a LOT to hurt himself. When he votes BAD on 99% of bills and GOOD on the big one, he can win support. That's politics for ya.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 06, 2006, 01:13 PM NHFT
These Senate fools don't know who we are yet. Their days are numbered. ;)
I have a feeling that once the FTL crew gets up to NH, you guys are going to be doing A LOT of good for this state.
Something that hasn't really been discussed is the "committee" to study REAL ID is totally unelected. Some may be elected positions, but not to their position in the committee. To be a truely representative and independant committee, it should be elected by the people. This may be another avevue to defeat this, we should push for an elected committee to review the law.
It's kind of like passing a law saying "we're going to study REAL ID and I'm appointing my brother to study it's effects."
Quote from: Republidog on May 06, 2006, 01:38 PM NHFT
Something that hasn't really been discussed is the "committee" to study REAL ID is totally unelected. Some may be elected positions, but not to their position in the committee. To be a truely representative and independant committee, it should be elected by the people. This may be another avevue to defeat this, we should push for an elected committee to review the law.
It's kind of like passing a law saying "we're going to study REAL ID and I'm appointing my brother to study it's effects."
Well since they can't actually make a legislative decision, they don't need to be elected. The only non-legislative position that's elected at the state or federal government level is the governor/president, and those two both do have the power to veto laws.
Plus, by accepting the committee members, the senate "democratically" chose the committee.
It isn't a committee, but a commission. A commission can include "experts"; a committee would be legislators.
Cathleen
Quote from: TN-FSP on May 06, 2006, 10:18 AM NHFT
Seriously folks. This is just one bill. No one should be written off just because how they vote on one bill. After all, all the US Senators in the nation and every other state in the nation has already approved of this bill. Please, think of this as one part of a long term battle, not the end all and be all. We need to stop calling so many senators names and threatening them. You know, the federal government, NH media, and some people that oppose us and are on the ground in NH read this forum.
<aimless_ramble>
I agree with you ... for the Senators for whom this was the first we heard on the subject.
But for the "turncoats" who voted OTP in committee, and then jumped ship when it really mattered... well, I have a hell of a lot less respect for them. See what ravelkinbow says about Senator Martel (http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3584.15). Hmmmm Martel must have taken Tums on Thursday afternoon, his tumnmy didn't seem to be troubling him.
And I cannot, cannot get over Gatsas and his tool Barnes.
Those two were the enablers that gave the easy out for the others.
Barnes was even on the committee. He could have asked for
any info he wanted; a major reason for having the exec committees is so that the legislators can properly study the bills, contact any needed experts, and collect all relevant testimony. For a committee member to flip-flop his vote, I want to know just what new information he got between when he cast his committee vote and when he cast the vote on the Senate floor. It sure feels like they hoped we'd drop the issue, go home, and not follow up. The only new information Barnes cited was that "Judd told me so!"
If Judd told him that, to be safe, he had to suspend the NH Constitution, and turn over all Muslims to internment camps, would that be OK, too? Where exactly does Barnes draw the line? Is there one?
So, yeah, for Barnes and Gatsas, I feel quite justified in wanting them
out of my State House.
Martel, Kenney, and Roberge -- the "turncoats" -- are on probation. I want an explanation, and some action to help minimize the damage.
Similarly, Bragdon gets bonus points for sticking to principles. I hate how quickly he dismissed the idea of forming a committee to study the issue of drug legalization, but that one vote doesn't send him to the doghouse, because he stood on the correct side on the smoking ban and on Real-ID, and both those votes took real guts. We can try and re-educate him on the whole drug policy thing later.
See? It's not all about one vote. It is indeed about a pattern of behavior.
</aimless_ramble>
Is it realy anything less than shameless politics for most of these people?
Does anyone think that if Gore or Kerry was in the White House that all of the Rebublicans would not have voted to stop this maddness - and that most (if not all) of the Dems. would have voted the other way?
As we stand today our "small government" Republicans have not only voted to take away a bit (a very big bit) more Liberty - but they voted to waste some more of our money studying how to do it . . . i.e. how to frighten the public into eccepting more government control.
To them, I say the same thing I said at the "check-point" at the rally: F.U.
Lots of great info here, guys. I am happy to see that taking the $3M was tabled, although I do wish they would take more of a stand and say NO!
I haven't taken the time to contact any of the senators yet, but I will. I hope others will join me in thanking those 9 senators who voted to protect our privacy and right to be without a national ID card.
This bill is a very important one with far reaching implications. The impact is HUGE. I still can't believe that all but 2 brave republicans turned their backs on their constituents in favor of supporting what the big guys in DC wanted them to do. I think this action has given a huge black eye to the R party in NH. I think the R's were worried about losing seats in the House and/or Senate in November. Now, I agree that they most certainly have something to worry about. If a rep/senator voted the liberty way on 10 small bills but supported a national ID card - the 10 small bills are totally cancelled out by comparison, IMHO.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 06, 2006, 09:24 PM NHFT
<aimless_ramble>
Denis, I think you need to aim that ramble at the LTE pages! ;D
I think it would be a valuable public service to let the citizens of NH know about the chain of events as you described them. It's a twist I hadn't thought of.
Kevin
In the next issue of the Keene Free Press I want to print a Hall of Shame/Hall of Fame for this bill. Now there wasn't a roll call on the house vote, right?
These people voted to bring the police state to NH:
blah
blah
blah
These people voted for freedom:
....
Quote from: KBCraig on May 07, 2006, 01:04 AM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 06, 2006, 09:24 PM NHFT
<aimless_ramble>
Denis, I think you need to aim that ramble at the LTE pages! ;D
I think it would be a valuable public service to let the citizens of NH know about the chain of events as you described them. It's a twist I hadn't thought of.
Kevin
Agreed! Denis - next time you go to write a reply, write it as an LTE, then submit the post to the Monitor, the Union Leader, The Democrat, the Courier, the Caledonian Record, and whatever other papers you think would get good exposure.
I've done that a couple of times - written a long diatribe post and then sent it, usually a little edited, to the papers.
Quote from: katdillon on May 07, 2006, 06:50 AM NHFT
In the next issue of the Keene Free Press I want to print a Hall of Shame/Hall of Fame for this bill. Now there wasn't a roll call on the house vote, right?
Nope, house vote was a voice vote unfortunately.
I have to say that Jenn has shown herself to be a complete powerhouse. I'm sure glad she's on our side. What a lady!
Quote from: katdillon on May 07, 2006, 06:50 AM NHFT
In the next issue of the Keene Free Press I want to print a Hall of Shame/Hall of Fame for this bill. Now there wasn't a roll call on the house vote, right?
These people voted to bring the police state to NH:
blah
blah
blah
These people voted for freedom:
....
House vote on HB1582 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotedetail.asp?sessionyear=2006&voteno=113&body=H)
Senate vote on amendment to HB1582 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotedetail.asp?sessionyear=2006&voteno=116&body=S)
Senate vote on OTP w/Amendment (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotedetail.asp?sessionyear=2006&voteno=117&body=S)
Thanks, McPat! :color:
Some more from John Connell:
"After haveing been told to speak from behind his chair, by the senate president, rude Barnes barks in Sen. Burling's ear."
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1936&nocount=y)
"I'm thinking Gatsas doesn't like Roger's eye very much.
Maybe this is why Gatsas looks at Roger like that?"
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1937&nocount=y)
The Peanut Gallery :)
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1935&nocount=y)
I more or less agree with your analysis, Denis, but rather than giving the turncoats probation, I'd say they should be held for questioning and possibly indicted (extending the metaphor). Right now I can't imagine supporting any of them, ever, but perhaps they can redeem themselves on REAL ID. The only way any of them can gain my respect is to take real and significant action against REAL ID. I don't expect representatives to agree with me on everything, but this issue is about core principles: liberty vs. statism. Pick a side.
However, Gatsas the Great and old man Barnesy are beyond forgiveness, beyond all hope. Lets get them out of office before they finish selling us into slavery.
Quotebefore they finish selling us into slavery.
I'd just like to point out that the only one who can sell you into slavery is yourself.
You got some good shots John...
And the commentary is very nice.
John really worked at contacting his Senator, he also was taking it to the streets with his every present flag. Karma for you dude. :)
Quote from: AlanM on May 07, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Quotebefore they finish selling us into slavery.
I'd just like to point out that the only one who can sell you into slavery is yourself.
Tell that to countless blacks taken by force from Africa, shackled and sold at auction to US landowners.
Quote from: aries on May 07, 2006, 02:12 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on May 07, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Quotebefore they finish selling us into slavery.
I'd just like to point out that the only one who can sell you into slavery is yourself.
Tell that to countless blacks taken by force from Africa, shackled and sold at auction to US landowners.
Just as you can't have freedom given to you, you must proclaim it, so you cannot be a slave unless you allow it. Many have chosen death over oppression in the history of the world.
Quote from: aries on May 07, 2006, 02:12 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on May 07, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Quotebefore they finish selling us into slavery.
I'd just like to point out that the only one who can sell you into slavery is yourself.
Tell that to countless blacks taken by force from Africa, shackled and sold at auction to US landowners.
Matt, emancipation is available to the willing initiate. Only a fool wait's for someone else to set him free.
Good points, but declaring your freedom does little to secure it. When fighting for it is an inevitable death sentence, the enslaved must be very crafty, plan very well, and pray for success.
For those that wish to be free, live free or die isn't just a motto or an order, it is an inevitability.
Edit- (not to say that if you don't live free you will die, but you must live as if you are free to be free, or die trying)
More photos from John:
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1938&nocount=y)
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1939&nocount=y)
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1940&nocount=y)
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1941&nocount=y)
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1942&nocount=y)
(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=1943&nocount=y)
Thanks for shrinking them, Roger!
Cannot help but get a creepy feeling from the Peanut gallery.
God save the Peanut Gallery.
And Peanut butter two.
Cept tunga is allergic to peanut oil n stuff.
We love Olives though.
Where are the freekin Boeations when you kneed them?
No wonder our Pysisist in residence is absent without leave. Bird flue my tuckas.
Time is all relative eh mR. Maynard?
Dude you might want to back away from the bong. ;D
Tunga certainly adds something to the stew (what I don't know).
Do you write Haikus?
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 07, 2006, 07:47 PM NHFT
Dude you might want to back away from the bong. ;D
Tunga certainly adds something to the stew (what I don't know).
Do you write Haikus?
You took the oath.
Blood sweat and tears dude.
Who expends them is your choice.
Semper Fi... do or die.
I love you man. Don't ever change. ;)
Your history shows on your face
Yeah, you've been hurt you've been betrayed
Now we can't change the past, but we can
Leave it behind.
B. Hayes/A. Pessis/L.J. McNally
Per Ms. Raitt ala
Luck of the Draw
;D
Quote from: d_goddard on May 06, 2006, 09:24 PM NHFT
<aimless_ramble>
I agree with you ... for the Senators for whom this was the first we heard on the subject.</aimless_ramble>
It is even more complicated then that. There are only 24 senators. We cannot completely write off a senator just because they have burned the people of NH in the past. They are very important to the freedom of the people of NH. Most of these people will get reelected, if they choice to run. I hear you though, and it is good to decided who we should use our very limited resources against.
Quote from: TN-FSP on May 07, 2006, 08:21 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 06, 2006, 09:24 PM NHFT
<aimless_ramble>
I agree with you ... for the Senators for whom this was the first we heard on the subject.</aimless_ramble>
It is even more complicated then that. There are only 24 senators. We cannot completely write off a senator just because they have burned the people of NH in the past. They are very important to the freedom of the people of NH. Most of these people will get reelected, if they choice to run. I hear you though, and it is good to decided who we should use our very limited resources against.
<-- is happy he lives in the district of one of the BEST senators, Gallus.
You're right, though, it is a tough decision to risk a new guy in the senate, or to reelect someone who has a decent, though flawed, voting record. It really is a gamble.
Tunga, do you want to run for office? We will campaign for you!!
John great pictures. I loved the peanut gallery shot.
We need people to run against Barnes and Gatsas in the primary that is the key.. shake them up. Maybe shadow them? Take turns following them with REAL ID signs? Or maybe just film them all day every day.
I am so glad I made the move to NH. You guys all rock.
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 07, 2006, 02:09 PM NHFT
John really worked at contacting his Senator, he also was taking it to the streets with his every present flag.
Thanks Roger, but I did far less than others.
I got some realy good direction from the likes of Joel and Kate.I thought that since I had called Morse once that he had my opinion. While I was planning to email once (as a follow up) before 1582 went to the full senate, I had not thought of any reason to call once more - but there was one. (thanks Joel.) . . . And yes, when I made a point of waving to Morse on Wednesday morning from the Gallery, some Liberty lovers thought that was a bit strange (and it was.) But, I figured it can't do any harm to let him know I am in the house.
Later Kate encoraged me to stop by
Morse's my/our senate office. I had though of it, but hadn't thought of a good reason. With Kate's encouragement, I came up with a good reason, and did so.
Wednesday night (now running on 24+ hours with no sleep - you know, real-work and stuff) I thought of the-Hershey-bar-skit which had been preformed on the senate floor Wednesday morning. So yes, I stopped and bought a Hershey bar on my way back to Concord early Thursday morning, brought it to "Morse's" on my way in, and asked the staffer to give it to Morse, tell him it was from me, and requested that he please vote YES on HB1582.
Well he voted YES - twice. >:( And to think I wasted a perfectly good candy bar for that.
PS When Kat called me sweet, I thought; How does Kat know about that candy bar? :o
;D 8)
I inherited my psychic powers from Tunga-the-Weirdling.
Quote from: John on May 07, 2006, 11:00 PM NHFTWell he voted YES - twice.
Did he take a big bite out of his candy bar and give you a thumbs up afterward? :-X
Quote from: John on May 07, 2006, 11:00 PM NHFT
Well he voted YES - twice. >:( And to think I wasted a perfectly good candy bar for that.
This is why I can't work with polititians .... I can't part with a candy bar.
CM LTE from non-undergrounder. Yes! We're getting the populace!
Freedom from fear?, LAURIE GREEN, Weare - Letter (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060508/REPOSITORY/605080349/1029/OPINION03)
May 08. 2006 8:00AM
The Senate's decision to create a commission to study whether New Hampshire should participate in the Real ID mandate was a great disappointment.
I do not belong to any Second Amendment rights group, nor am I a Libertarian or a member of any Christian group. I am not worried about the Apocalypse. And I would not disgrace myself by putting on a Nazi uniform.
I am a citizen of Weare, N.H., United States of America. I am the proud daughter of a Marine Corps veteran, and I am a person who savors the right to vote.
I am also sick and tired of being told to be afraid. I am sick and tired of being told that my government can keep me safe if I just let it tap my telephone, investigate my library records and enter information about me in a national database.
I believe that when we give up our privacy because we have given in to fear, we are not making ourselves any safer. In some ways, we become more vulnerable.
I agree with the honorable senator from Raymond who said, "I don't mind going to the airport and taking my shoes off so some bum isn't coming along and blowing up the airplane I'm riding on." I'd like to respectfully remind Senator Barnes, however, that we both already have to do that.
Maybe NHFREE should take out an ad in the monitor considering the number of its readers that send express such libertarian sentiments :)
How much would it cost for a half page ad? I'd be glad to chip in.
My unofficial repot of today's Fiscal Commitee meeting is at:
http://freestateblogs.net/node/475
Quote from: d_goddard on May 08, 2006, 12:10 PM NHFT
My unofficial repot of today's Fiscal Commitee meeting is at:
http://freestateblogs.net/node/475
Nice write up Denis...
Hey could you or someone grab the archived audio from the day of the vote?
www.gencourt.state.nh.us Listen in (I was told this is where the audio is)
Leaving for business and I have a slow connection... plus I would hate for the audio to disappear. Also it would be a good idea to grab any future content from the archive for our use later.
Thanks
Thanks for keeping up the pressure guys. I'll plan to be there with you, on June 7th.
From the NEW HAMPSHIRE SUNDAY NEWS, STATE HOUSE DOME column, by Tom Fahey:
. . . TOUGH BATTLE:The Real ID bill, which meant to block the state from being part of the national ID system, faces an uphill struggle in committee of conference. The Senate changed the defiant House stance to a study, leaving the state in the Real ID system. Privacy advocate Rep. Neal Kurk said he expects atough fight in talks with the Senate.
"The boby that is in more desarate need is in the weaker poision," he said. We'll see how that applies to the Senate's yearning for the dental clinic.
The Department of Safety, which fought Kurk's bill, held off on the victory dance Friday. It was first up at the Fiscal Committee with a long-standing request to accept a $3 million Real ID grant. Safety requested another month's deay. Administrator Wes Colby said the department wants to make sure the bill is law before it accepts the grant.
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 08, 2006, 01:38 PM NHFT
Hey could you or someone grab the archived audio from the day of the vote?
I have snarfed it and am editing it down to soundbites of the "good bits".
My PC disk drive is mirrored; I'll take an external-disk backup in the next few days as well :D
-Dens
John - what's going on June 7th, I must've missed it.
I am free that day if you guys could use me.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 08, 2006, 01:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 08, 2006, 01:38 PM NHFT
Hey could you or someone grab the archived audio from the day of the vote?
I have snarfed it and am editing it down to soundbites of the "good bits".
My PC disk drive is mirrored; I'll take an external-disk backup in the next few days as well :D
-Dens
You da man! ;D
We will always have their own words to prevent anyone from forgetting. >:D
I'll be out of touch for awhile... I'll catchup when I return.
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 08, 2006, 03:27 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 08, 2006, 01:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 08, 2006, 01:38 PM NHFT
Hey could you or someone grab the archived audio from the day of the vote?
I have snarfed it and am editing it down to soundbites of the "good bits".
My PC disk drive is mirrored; I'll take an external-disk backup in the next few days as well :D
-Dens
You da man! ;D
We will always have their own words to prevent anyone from forgetting. >:D
I'll be out of touch for awhile... I'll catchup when I return.
Curious. What does one use to "snarf" a streaming audio file?
Snarfomatic (tm).
:)
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 08, 2006, 05:08 PM NHFT
Curious. What does one use to "snarf" a streaming audio file?
I use SDP (http://get.to/SDP)
It's freeware, lets you take streaming files that typically don't download to PC, and save them directly to harddisk.
It sucks in that for a 5 hour stream, SDP takes 5 hours to download the whole thing, but in the end you have a nice copy of the file.
For sound editing I use Audacity (http://audacity.sourceforge.net) which is also Free ("as in Speech and Beer")
Quote from: aries on May 08, 2006, 08:26 AM NHFT
Maybe NHFREE should take out an ad in the monitor considering the number of its readers that send express such libertarian sentiments :)
How much would it cost for a half page ad? I'd be glad to chip in.
If Tunga remember correctly, price is north of 6 grand for 1/2 page one day.
Quote from: Tunga on May 08, 2006, 06:24 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 08, 2006, 08:26 AM NHFT
Maybe NHFREE should take out an ad in the monitor considering the number of its readers that send express such libertarian sentiments :)
How much would it cost for a half page ad? I'd be glad to chip in.
If Tunga remember correctly, price is north of 6 grand for 1/2 page one day.
Holy cow.
$15/week in the Lancaster Herald!
Maybe we should start small...
Quote from: aries on May 08, 2006, 03:18 PM NHFT
John - what's going on June 7th, I must've missed it.
I am free that day if you guys could use me.
Here is a quote for the blog of Denis:
Quote
The next committee meeting is scheduled for Wed., June 7th, at 9:00 AM. We'll be there, once again, watching every move!
Quote from: Dreepa on May 08, 2006, 07:31 PM NHFT
Here is a quote for the blog of Denis:
Thanks. Do you know what room it is in?
http://billstclair.com/blog/new_hampshire_says_maybe_to_real_id.html#comment-886
Anyone feel like setting Chemical Ali straight?
Ah I see the room # is now there
The next committee meeting is scheduled for Wed., June 7th, at 9:00 AM, LOB room 210. We'll be there, once again, watching every move!
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 08, 2006, 03:27 PM NHFT
I'll be out of touch for awhile... I'll catchup when I return.
When Roger says that ..... is he headed to the batcave with his son or is he returning to his life as the socialite Bruce Wayne?
Quote from: aries on May 08, 2006, 07:27 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 08, 2006, 08:26 AM NHFT
Maybe NHFREE should take out an ad in the monitor considering the number of its readers that send express such libertarian sentiments :)
How much would it cost for a half page ad? I'd be glad to chip in.
$15/week in the Lancaster Herald!
Maybe we should start small...
We have not even been advertising NHfree.com in our paper. Maybe we should. What should the ad look like and what should it be promoting?
How about a big swasticka with the circle and slash through it?
No Nazis. ???
Quote from: russellkanning on May 09, 2006, 04:57 PM NHFT
We have not even been advertising NHfree.com in our paper. Maybe we should. What should the ad look like and what should it be promoting?
This is worthy of a lot of lively discussion... how about taking it to its own dedicated thread?
e-mailed to my Senator , Eaton:
--
Senator Eaton:
Just wanted to let you know Thursday is the one year anniversary of Washington's
passage of the hated Real ID act. Now that you are starting to become a part of
this unconstitutional evil which is to be wreaked upon the people of New Hampshire
over the next few years, I thought you would want to know so you can celebrate the
birthday.
Sorry for my sarcasm, but you really disappointed me with that vote to table HB1582.
I'll think better of you if you ever start fighting the feds on this instead of
voting to obfiscate. This is a "core issue for your constituency," and
your constituency is me and my neighbors, not a bunch of fedspooks and politician-thugs
from DC. Please help us get the heck out of this Real ID fiasco before it's too
late.
Here's another suggestion for a way you can score an extra point while in Concord fighting real id:
Go by senator gregg's office and charlie bass's office.. they are on main st. just northeast of the capitol building. either you can express concern to a staffer (and keep them from doing harm for a few minutes) or just stand in front of them with a sign like I do. If they're not there, and if you happen to be holding a wet skanky looking sign against real id, just leave it at their doorstep for them to dispose of instead of you having to do it!
Put the two bastards on your speed dial and call em up every week about this! i do !
dreepa wrote:
<<We need people to run against Barnes and Gatsas in the primary that is the key.. shake them up. Maybe shadow them? Take turns following them with REAL ID signs? Or maybe just film them all day every day.>>
i like that idea, just following people around. i tend more to just wanna stand in front of them with a sign and say nothing.
Quote from: Tunga on May 09, 2006, 07:16 PM NHFT
How about a big swasticka with the circle and slash through it?
No Nazis. ???
I have one of those pinned onto my backpack.
Quote from: aries on May 10, 2006, 03:02 AM NHFT
Quote from: Tunga on May 09, 2006, 07:16 PM NHFT
How about a big swasticka with the circle and slash through it?
No Nazis. ???
I have one of those pinned onto my backpack.
That's right! You got suspended for that, right? How's that going? Give us an update.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 10, 2006, 04:57 AM NHFT
That's right! You got suspended for that, right? How's that going? Give us an update.
That wasn't me, that was a poster who came here called 1984isnow.
I ordered it online after I heard his story and I've been proudly displaying it since.
Quote from: aries on May 10, 2006, 05:14 AM NHFT
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 10, 2006, 04:57 AM NHFT
That's right! You got suspended for that, right? How's that going? Give us an update.
That wasn't me, that was a poster who came here called 1984isnow.
I ordered it online after I heard his story and I've been proudly displaying it since.
:blush:
Sorry. Wow, you've even been here a lot longer than that. I'll just go to work now. This is what happens when I try to do things in a hurry.
Can I print that as an open letter to Sen. Eaton?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 09, 2006, 09:50 PM NHFT
e-mailed to my Senator , Eaton:
--
Senator Eaton:
Just wanted to let you know Thursday is the one year anniversary of Washington's
passage of the hated Real ID act. Now that you are starting to become a part of
this unconstitutional evil which is to be wreaked upon the people of New Hampshire
over the next few years, I thought you would want to know so you can celebrate the
birthday.
Sorry for my sarcasm, but you really disappointed me with that vote to table HB1582.
I'll think better of you if you ever start fighting the feds on this instead of
voting to obfiscate. This is a "core issue for your constituency," and
your constituency is me and my neighbors, not a bunch of fedspooks and politician-thugs
from DC. Please help us get the heck out of this Real ID fiasco before it's too
late.
Our latest article about Real ID
http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=111&Itemid=36
I've just posted some choice clips from the NH Senate Floor debate on this bill, and some analysis of what happened and why:
http://freestateblogs.net/1582senate
There are many choice soundbites, like: "In time of war is when you need to fight hardest for your Liberty."
See the link for more.
Clip 13: Sen. Morse (R) offers the most ridiculous reason of all time to give up some of our privacy: "Senator Greg has never let us down!" Hmmm... I'm pretty sure if one dig through the voting records, one can find plenty of cases where U.S. Senator Judd Gregg has voted to curtail our liberties and increase our taxes!
Tunga remember when Judd was just a congressman. He sent out his info letter to let us NH citizens know that although 90 percent of his constituants opposed the construction of Seabrook Station he was very dissapointed with us and would vote for it anyway. Cause he always knows whats best for the little people.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 10, 2006, 05:48 AM NHFT
Sorry. Wow, you've even been here a lot longer than that. I'll just go to work now. This is what happens when I try to do things in a hurry.
Haha, don't worry about it, I make much worse mistakes than that all the time
Quote from: d_goddard on May 10, 2006, 04:36 PM NHFT
I've just posted some choice clips from the NH Senate Floor debate on this bill, and some analysis of what happened and why:
http://freestateblogs.net/1582senate
There are many choice soundbites, like: "In time of war is when you need to fight hardest for your Liberty."
See the link for more.
Thanks for those clips! I would have also used others: such as these (R) state-senator-boys crying,
I'm one who usualy stands for Liberty, etc.
But I'm not the one to compile these clips, so again thanks.
When I was there listening - live, the passion in Morses' presentation seemed a bit over-the-top to me. Methinks he did protest too much. When he told me on the phone (days earlier) that Gregg's Washington goons were here twisting arms (obviously my words not his) I told him that Senator Sununu was on the correct side of this. Would Morse
dare even come close to saying that Sen. Sununu has ever "let us down"?
I will say it! One thing seems clear: Gregg's team worked harder to KILL 1582 than Sununu's team worked to save it.
I will always remember 1582.
kat wrote:
<<Can I print that as an open letter to Sen. Eaton?>>
yes plz do !
I suggest dropping a copy off to him or his office so he can see for himself...
Quote from: John on May 10, 2006, 08:06 PM NHFT
Thanks for those clips! I would have also used others: such as these (R) state-senator-boys crying, I'm one who usualy stands for Liberty, etc.
Yeah, that and Barnes' moronc quote about the Japanese "internment" camps were almost included. In some cases there are too many circumlocutions for a good soundbite, or the bite itself is so short it sounds like it could be taken out of context.
Quote from: John on May 10, 2006, 08:06 PM NHFT
I will always remember 1582.
HEY! IT AIN'T DEAD YET!If we keep up the pressure on these guys (and on Sheila Roberge), they will come around.
But they need to understand how much pressure there is.
LTEs are our friend now (and double-shame on me for not having written one yet, I swear I will before Monday), so are direct letters to the "dirty 14" who voted the wrong way. Let 'em know you really want to support them because they are usually pro-Liberty, but are so galled by what they did, you don't know whether you will support or oppose them come election time!
Today is the one year anniversary of REAL ID becoming LAW.
Take 10 minutes out of your schedule and call:
24 State Senators in NH
US Rep Bradley
US Rep Bass
US Sen Sununu (and he voted for it no matter what his people say. The vote was 100-0)
US Sen Gregg actively tried to have NH turn down HB1582.
Sent below to Sentinel, will plan to read it into the national reps and senators' voicemails:
In a craven act of subservience to Washington, a majority of the N.H. Senate (including Eaton of Keene) have voted to defang the "Real ID Resistance Bill." This bill would have prevented N.H. from going along with Bush's defacto national identity card. Now the legislation is in limbo.
This was a hollow victory for Federal lobbyists whose goal is to brand and track New Hampshire citizens like animals. But many more battles will follow, and if we the people maintain our momentum and resolve, we will win in the end.
To paraphrase one of history's more colorful figures:
Though large tracts of America, and many old and famous freedoms, have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Homeland Security Department and all the odious apparatus of authoritarian rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, peaceably but ever growing in activity and resolve. In this manner, we shall fight in New Hampshire, we shall fight on the sidewalks and streetcorners,
we shall fight with growing confidence and strength on the airwaves. We shall defend our Island of freedom, whatever the cost may be; we shall fight in the papers; we shall fight in the Legislature. We shall fight in the offices of our rulers and on their phone lines; we shall never surrender. And even if this state or a large part of it were subjucated and under the thrall of a surveillance regime, her core
resisters, armed and guarded by the simple principles of liberty, would carry on the struggle until, until, in God's good time, a new generation, with all the power and might of youth, steps forth to the rescue and liberation of the old.
That is brilliant!!! (You and Winnie)
US Rep Bass keene office: 358 4094
US Sen Sununu 202 224 2841
US Sen Gregg 202 224 3324
sent copy of above LTE to my state senator, eaton
I posted a thread about this but I'll post this here:
I have a standing offer from Gatsas to discuss 1582 over lunch sometime, and why he thinks NH needs RealID. He invited me, through my father, to invite a friend or two. I just need to call him and arrange something before the senate recesses.
Thoughts? Anybody want to be my friend?
House non-concurs, Senate refuses to hold conference committee:
Thursday, May 11, 2006 Senate Sen. Barnes Refuse to Accede to House Request for Committee of Conference, RC 14Y-7N, MA
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House Speaker Appts, Reps. Packard, Nadeau, Ferland and Kurk
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House House NON-Concurs with Senate AM, Request Comm of Conference, MA, VV
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House Rep. Kurk moves Committee of Conference
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House House Non-Concurs with Senate AM, Rep. Packard, ML, VV
Senate non-concurs on SB 399:
Thursday, May 11, 2006 Senate Sen. Morse Non Concur with House Amendment, MA, VV
Translation please? ???
Translation is its dead. The Senate killed it. Next step is to stop them from collecting the $3M.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 11, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
Translation is its dead. The Senate killed it. Next step is to stop them from collecting the $3M.
Does that mean the House bill that Kurk got the REAL ID attached to is also dead? That bill sucked.
Man, it sucks when you have a libertarian/left house and a right/authoritarian senate.
1582:
QuoteThursday, May 11, 2006 Senate Sen. Barnes Refuse to Accede to House Request for Committee of Conference, RC 14Y-7N, MA
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House Speaker Appts, Reps. Packard, Nadeau, Ferland and Kurk
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House House NON-Concurs with Senate AM, Request Comm of Conference, MA, VV
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House Rep. Kurk moves Committee of Conference
Thursday, May 11, 2006 House House Non-Concurs with Senate AM, Rep. Packard, ML, VV
399:
Quote
Thursday, May 11, 2006 Senate Sen. Morse Non Concur with House Amendment, MA, VV
Thursday, May 4, 2006 House Passed with AM's, MA, VV
Thursday, May 4, 2006 House Flr AM {2184h}, (Rep. Rosenwald), AA, VV
Thursday, May 4, 2006 House Flr AM {2111h} (Rep. Kurk), AA, VV
Thursday, May 4, 2006 House Comm AM {1904h}, AA, VV
The bold bit was 1582.
Well, getting pulled over after 2008 sure will be a fun experience.
Quote from: Keith and Stuff on May 12, 2006, 01:23 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 11, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
Translation is its dead. The Senate killed it. Next step is to stop them from collecting the $3M.
Does that mean the House bill that Kurk got the REAL ID attached to is also dead? That bill sucked.
Both bills are dead.
Check out this article in the Concord Monitor:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060512/REPOSITORY/605120346
and this quote from Clegg
Quote
Once the speeches were over and the dust had settled, both bills were dead, and plenty of lawmakers were unhappy. Top Senate Republicans chastised Kurk for putting privacy concerns over public safety, and they accused him of siding with groups like the Free State Project, a movement of libertarians who are migrating to New Hampshire to lobby for small government.
"He chose the Free-Staters over the health of the citizens of New Hampshire," said Majority Leader Bob Clegg, of Hudson. "That's wrong."
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 12, 2006, 07:32 AM NHFT
Quote from: Keith and Stuff on May 12, 2006, 01:23 AM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 11, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
Translation is its dead. The Senate killed it. Next step is to stop them from collecting the $3M.
Does that mean the House bill that Kurk got the REAL ID attached to is also dead? That bill sucked.
Both bills are dead.
We need to reintroduce the spirit of 1582 into some other bill, written in cryptic legalese.
For instance, a lengthy bill establishing a committee to study the mission of the DMV and provide reccommendations for its improvement, and somewhere in there, a roundabout way of stating that the DMV is to suspend all amendment of procedures until the committee reccomendation is produced, then somewhere in there, mentioning that the committee would be set up no sooner than 2008.
Or something, I still think we could reject RealID but at the moment things are looking very grim. If we can't, remember people, life goes on. Even if I do manage to get a license renewal, you can bet your ass it's going in the microwave (or whatever would disable RFID), and as I did with my current license, I will doodle over the barcode with a sharpie and shave off the magnetic strip with a pocket knife. God forbid a cop has to manually enter my license number.
Quote from: Dreepa on May 12, 2006, 08:07 AM NHFT
Check out this article in the Concord Monitor:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060512/REPOSITORY/605120346
and this quote from Clegg
Quote
Once the speeches were over and the dust had settled, both bills were dead, and plenty of lawmakers were unhappy. Top Senate Republicans chastised Kurk for putting privacy concerns over public safety, and they accused him of siding with groups like the Free State Project, a movement of libertarians who are migrating to New Hampshire to lobby for small government.
"He chose the Free-Staters over the health of the citizens of New Hampshire," said Majority Leader Bob Clegg, of Hudson. "That's wrong."
Hey Clegg, we're here to improve the health and freedom of the citizens of NH. Looks like you sided with irrationality and bribes over your own people. Corrupt bastard.
Have any other states taken a stand against RealID?
Quote from: Dreepa on May 12, 2006, 08:07 AM NHFT
Check out this article in the Concord Monitor:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060512/REPOSITORY/605120346
and this quote from Clegg
Quote
Once the speeches were over and the dust had settled, both bills were dead, and plenty of lawmakers were unhappy. Top Senate Republicans chastised Kurk for putting privacy concerns over public safety, and they accused him of siding with groups like the Free State Project, a movement of libertarians who are migrating to New Hampshire to lobby for small government.
"He chose the Free-Staters over the health of the citizens of New Hampshire," said Majority Leader Bob Clegg, of Hudson. "That's wrong."
;D
Quote
"New Hampshire has no defense against the onset of Real ID," Burling said. "It was nothing but Republican votes that killed our defense."
of course not mentioned in the article is that 'bird flu' bill wanted to suspend the right to assemble.
Quote from: Dreepa on May 12, 2006, 08:16 AM NHFT
of course not mentioned in the article is that 'bird flu' bill wanted to suspend the right to assemble.
I hope Kurk tacks 1582 onto every bill he can, good or bad. Even if he isn't voting to pass it.
He's got my respect as one of the better members of the house.
Can someone approach Governor Lynch about an executive order prohibiting the taking of the $3 million and participating in the Real ID program? Does the governor have that power?
Hey aries, I would love to have lunch with you and Gastas sometime. Let me know what you think and we can work towards setting something up. Feel free to send me an email, since I am unable to view your email address.
The only two states that I know of that even marginally fought REAL ID were NH and Montana. Montana made a lot of noise about it, but they already have accepted it. NH was the final chance to show other states this is possible.
So sad that no other state is even trying to stop this.
Alaska apparently rejected Real ID...their legislation passed.
Quote from: katdillon on May 12, 2006, 03:18 PM NHFT
Alaska apparently rejected Real ID...their legislation passed.
Well, not exactly. They just didn't implement the Real ID requirements in time for the deadline. They didn't have legislation like our HB 1582.
Here's my summary of what happened.
It forms a template that Irena and I will be using as the basis for letters to the editor.
Please feel free to do the same.
http://freestateblogs.net/realDeceit
Sending this to my executive councilor,
debora.pignatelli@nh.gov
----
Dear Councilor Pignatelli:
I wanted to ask what if anything you are planning to do to stop the acceptance of that 3 million dollar Real ID grant. As I understand it, you're the last line of defense between me and the advent of a Bush surveillance state. The Council and the Governor could always refuse to take the money and thus stop Real ID in New Hampshire, right? It would seem to be the right thing to do, rather than standing still while they try to brand and track us like animals.
Counting on you,
(sig)
Here is contact info for all five councilors
http://www.nh.gov/council/
I've sent the Gov a similar note. I hope many of you will do the same.
Lynch contact info
Office of the Governor
State House
25 Capitol Street
Concord, NH 03301
(603)271-2121
(603)271-7680 (fax)
Your comments and suggestions are always welcome. Email the Governor at
http://www.egov.nh.gov/governor/goveforms/comments.asp
I'm listening to Gardner goldsmith and he has a good point - the house and senate are having a series of skirmishes right now:
Senate kills 1582
House embeds 1582 into 399, a bill popular with the senators
Senate kills 399
Senate embeds 399 in 12XX, a bill popular with the house
House kills 12XX
HB12-something, the HIV awareness bill got 399's wording tacked onto it and was killed, so the only way for the Senate's precious 399 bill to get through would be to accept the wording of 1582 embedded in it.
Maybe a little pandemic fearmongering would help it get passed >:D
Quote from: aries on May 12, 2006, 09:31 PM NHFT
I'm listening to Gardner goldsmith and he has a good point - the house and senate are having a series of skirmishes right now:
Senate kills 1582
House embeds 1582 into 399, a bill popular with the senators
Senate kills 399
Senate embeds 399 in 12XX, a bill popular with the house
House kills 12XX
HB12-something, the HIV awareness bill got 399's wording tacked onto it and was killed, so the only way for the Senate's precious 399 bill to get through would be to accept the wording of 1582 embedded in it.
Maybe a little pandemic fearmongering would help it get passed >:D
Are you saying that two bad bills were killed because the Anti-REAL ID Bill failed? Well, even in failure, great things can happen.
QuoteMaybe a little pandemic fearmongering would help it get passed
Remember, it's the state that stages crisis to gain control. Let's not even entertain such ideas. (I realize you were being sarcastic) >:D
Clegg:
Quote
Once the speeches were over and the dust had settled, both bills were dead, and plenty of lawmakers were unhappy. Top Senate Republicans chastised Kurk for putting privacy concerns over public safety, and they accused him of siding with groups like the Free State Project, a movement of libertarians who are migrating to New Hampshire to lobby for small government.
"He chose the Free-Staters over the health of the citizens of New Hampshire," said Majority Leader Bob Clegg, of Hudson. "That's wrong."
Bleh. To juxtapose us with healty citizens is ludicrous.
<< "He chose the Free-Staters over the health of the citizens of New Hampshire," >>
To be attacked is glorious
To be attacked and lumped in with the ever-popular Neal Kurk is even more glorious
Seems like the state government is going pretty deep into gridlock mode this year just like Jason Sorens predicted it would. Has anything anti liberty or pro liberty even passed into law this year besides Homeschool Deregulation and pseudoephedrine regulation?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 13, 2006, 05:12 AM NHFT
Seems like the state government is going pretty deep into gridlock mode this year just like Jason Sorens predicted it would.
Because our House realizes its place, for the most part, and our senate fancies itself a bunch of big time politicians with a major influence on things. They are as corrupted by power as our national representative and senators are, even though they haven't got nearly as much power.
Quote from: aries on May 13, 2006, 07:00 AM NHFT
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 13, 2006, 05:12 AM NHFT
Seems like the state government is going pretty deep into gridlock mode this year just like Jason Sorens predicted it would.
Because our House realizes its place, for the most part, and our senate fancies itself a bunch of big time politicians with a major influence on things. They are as corrupted by power as our national representative and senators are, even though they haven't got nearly as much power.
House of Commons to the Senate's House of Lords; driving their new Mercedes and having enough money and time to work for nothing.
Elizbeth said her impression was Gatsas is like the "Dapper Don"... I agree, he has enough vanity for two men. ;D
The exec council has the ability to CANCEL any program with a budget over $5000. That means that they can still kill this thing. I'm going to write a letter to Pignatelli (sp?) in the next day or two.
Gotta use those old colonial laws for somethin'! ;D
JM
Quote from: aries on May 13, 2006, 07:00 AM NHFT
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 13, 2006, 05:12 AM NHFT
Seems like the state government is going pretty deep into gridlock mode this year just like Jason Sorens predicted it would.
Because our House realizes its place, for the most part, and our senate fancies itself a bunch of big time politicians with a major influence on things. They are as corrupted by power as our national representative and senators are, even though they haven't got nearly as much power.
That's precisely the intent of the design of the House and Senate. The Senate is basically the "House of Lords" -- intended to resemble the aristocracy and to represent the interests of the elite. The House is the "House of Commons", closer to the people, but more likely to be swayed by the rabble. The two perform important checks on one another, even if it is imperfect.
Let's remember that is was the House that passed the smoking ban, and the Senate that stopped it. This happened not because of the debate about liberty, but because of pragmatism. The House was following the "will of the people" as they perceived it. The Senate was following the "will of the elite" as they perceived it. Liberty won in that case.
I have not yet seen the role of regulatory agencies discussed much here. Much of the problem with Real ID exists because regulatory agencies like the NH DMV and the Federal DHS operate are essentially miniature legislatures, unelected bureaucrats creating laws with minimum accountability. Because of this, Real ID can take effect in New Hampshire without the consent of the General Court, and Real ID requirements can be added by Homeland Security without the consent of Congress.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 13, 2006, 07:01 PM NHFT
I have not yet seen the role of regulatory agencies discussed much here. Much of the problem with Real ID exists because regulatory agencies like the NH DMV and the Federal DHS operate are essentially miniature legislatures, unelected bureaucrats creating laws with minimum accountability. Because of this, Real ID can take effect in New Hampshire without the consent of the General Court, and Real ID requirements can be added by Homeland Security without the consent of Congress.
NH needs a "no outsourcing power" law.
http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=A+missed+chance%3a+REAL+ID+deserved+rejection&articleId=8cfca44c-a40b-4290-be19-cb4246f1a445
My dad pointed that LTE out to me today. Amazing that even he, a staunch pro-war, pro-Bush ex-cop conservative has come around and agrees that Real ID should be stopped in NH.
Stopped or not, I'm rejecting it.
thanks for posting that editorial john. I will write an LTE response to it probably and post it to the LTE thread.
posted this to the calendar and directed respondants here:
Exec Councilor meeting June 7, june 21 (calendar entry)
? on: Today at 09:49:49 PM ?
Here is the schedule for exec. councilor meetings between now and july:
http://admin.state.nh.us/comm/index2.asp
As Jim mentioned they can apparently refuse to accept the fed grant money for Real ID, so maybe their meetings will be important. Is there something we can do in relation to their meetings? I've already e-mailed my councilor and the Governor.
Irena (my better half) took my vitriolic rant (http://freestateblogs.net/realDeceit), toned it down, and gave it her spin as a member of the RLCNH:
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060516/REPOSITORY/605160338/1029/OPINION03
She has also set "what do we do about these deceitful Senators?" as an agenda item for the next Concord Women Republicans' meeting :)
Very nicely done. 8)
How do I give karma to Irena...
I'll give it to you. :)
Graphic Removed
Lack of interest.
Need one of you wordsmiths to give me text to fill in the space.
I'll provide a print resolution file for the underground, and/or I can print on my high quality ink jet.
Every towns DMV issueing points could use this info along with other printed info from granitestateid or whoever.
Feedback requested. :)
EDIT:
Graphic Removed
Lack of interest
we need some new action items to keep the pressure on... anyone have any thoughts what we should be doing and when and where? if so, put it on the calendar!
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 16, 2006, 12:43 PM NHFT
:evil6:
I see Gallus, what gives, he voted for 1582 and aganinst the amendment... ?
He is, arguable, the MOST libertarian senator of all... Supported legalizing drugs, 1582, casino gambling... opposed raising the dropout age, smoking ban...
Quote from: aries on May 16, 2006, 02:56 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 16, 2006, 12:43 PM NHFT
:evil6:
I see Gallus, what gives, he voted for 1582 and aganinst the amendment... ?
He is, arguable, the MOST libertarian senator of all... Supported legalizing drugs, 1582, casino gambling... opposed raising the dropout age, smoking ban...
Working per http://freestateblogs.net/realDeceit
If this is not correct I'll galdly update the graphic. :)
You political followers keep better track of such things than I do.
Another action item for continuing the Real ID fight:
For those of you feeling adrift as I am on this...
Here is one thing each you can do to continue the fight against Real ID over the next few weeks and months:
contact and thank some of the Senators who tried to save HB1582:
Republicans Gallus, Bragdon and Democrats Estabrook,
Hassan, Fuller Clark
Their contact info is at
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/senatemembers.html
So far I have written this e-mail, to gallus:
-----
Dear Senator Gallus:
Thanks for your ballsy stand in favor of HB1582, the "Real ID Rejection Bill." The Democrats I will maybe get around to thanking later, but you deserve first thanks because you defied the national GOP hacks from your own party. God bless you for that and for your 100% libertarian rating from the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. You rock!
Are you in any danger of losing your re-election bid and if so what are the most effective ways *real* Republicans in NH can help you stay in office?
Another possibility is to approach boards of aldermen and city councils to pass resolutions urging the legislature to opt out of Real ID. Come March, have these resolutions placed on town warrants across the state. It'll help keep it in the news and raise public awareness.
So am I wrong to have Gallus in the 14 face line up?
And/or is the 14 faces something I should remove from the flyer idea?
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3299.msg67121#msg67121
My understanding was that gallus voted against the amendment... anyone want to set the record straight for us?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 16, 2006, 05:04 PM NHFT
My understanding was that gallus voted against the amendment... anyone want to set the record straight for us?
Gallus voted against the amendment and against the amended (gutted) bill. Then last week, he and the other Republicans killed the whole legislative effort by voting against forming House-Senate Committees of Conference for HB 1582 and SB 399. At least the committees would have left a window open for keeping the state out of REAL ID through legislation.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 16, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Another possibility is to approach boards of aldermen and city councils to pass resolutions urging the legislature to opt out of Real ID. Come March, have these resolutions placed on town warrants across the state. It'll help keep it in the news and raise public awareness.
Brilliant!!!
So maybe I should just remove the 14 faces...
Any thoughts? Denis?
Still looking for text to go with the image.
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3299.msg67121#msg67121
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 16, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Another possibility is to approach boards of aldermen and city councils to pass resolutions urging the legislature to opt out of Real ID. Come March, have these resolutions placed on town warrants across the state. It'll help keep it in the news and raise public awareness.
Excellent idea!!
Quote from: d_goddard on May 16, 2006, 08:28 PM NHFT
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 16, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
Another possibility is to approach boards of aldermen and city councils to pass resolutions urging the legislature to opt out of Real ID. Come March, have these resolutions placed on town warrants across the state. It'll help keep it in the news and raise public awareness.
Brilliant!!!
In many ways perhaps a better solluttion. Even more decentralized, and we won't be stuck praising the State government for our protection. Praising local governments while marginalizing the state and federal is better.
Tracy
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 16, 2006, 03:40 PM NHFT
Dear Senator Gallus:
Thanks for your ballsy stand in favor of HB1582, the "Real ID Rejection Bill." The Democrats I will maybe get around to thanking later, but you deserve first thanks because you defied the national GOP hacks from your own party. God bless you for that and for your 100% libertarian rating from the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance. You rock!
Are you in any danger of losing your re-election bid and if so what are the most effective ways *real* Republicans in NH can help you stay in office?
Dave, that's absolutely brilliant. Combines appeals to his principles, idealism, and party preference all in one brilliant message!
Kevin
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 16, 2006, 08:28 PM NHFT
So maybe I should just remove the 14 faces...
Any thoughts?
I don't think it's that effective, plus there is a mixed message with Gallus, and possibly others who have been strongly on our side on other votes.
Given Gallus's votes on other liberty issues, I'm willing to cut him slack and assume he had something bigger in mind when he voted to reject a conference on Real ID.
Kevin
Sen. John E. Sununu has the ANOTHER VIEW opinion piece in today's New Hampshire Union Leader: "REAL ID: unnecessary, unfunded and unlikely to make you safer"
http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Sen.+John+E.+Sununu%3a+REAL+ID+-+unnecessary%2c+unfunded+and+unlikely+to+make+you+safer&articleId=6cc3d096-fdcb-4cd4-8162-e9a93f204ca3
Quote from: John on May 17, 2006, 05:28 AM NHFT
Sen. John E. Sununu has the ANOTHER VIEW opinion piece in today's New Hampshire Union Leader: "REAL ID: unnecessary, unfunded and unlikely to make you safer"
Well Sununu THANKS ALOT FOR VOTING FOR IT.
"A vote for Sununu is a vote for ......"?
Took down the 14 cowards graphic.
Lack of interest.
Who was it that said "I voted for that [whatever it was] before I voted against that [whatever it was]? Just another of those jerks who are spending way too much time in Washington, I'm sure.
-------------------------------------------------------------
Funny thing that as I worked throughout the night I kept thinking of a song:
I have no need of half of anything
No half-time, no half of man's attention
Give me all the earth-and-sky, and at the same time add a new demention
Half the truth is of no use
Give it all, give it all to me
I can stand it, I am strong that way
. . .
Don't give me fountains, I need waterfalls
. . .
Half of loving is no fun
Give it all, give it all to me
I can stand it, I am strong that way
. . .
Don't leave me guessin' alone
Don't walk me half-the-way home . . .
-------------------------------------------------------
Anyway, I'm thinkin' that John [Mr. Senator Sununu] needs to come HOME and start 'splaining what-in-the-world does he think he's doing down there in D.C. Who's the boss; NH or DC?
This is no time for half-messures, Mr. Sununu! WE NEED TO STOP THIS NATIONAL-ID NOW!
What more are you going to do to help, Mr. Senator? Many of us have written to papers: We need you to do more than that. Come HOME and work to end this National ID - now. Stop it here in New Hampshire.
We know that Justice Souter has been in DC way too long; and we're thinking that lately Gregg ain't been actin' too smart either.
I hope that someone (anyone in our deligation) will stop worrying about the words of Gen. Stark and start to worry about what Liberty THEY[he] PLAN to leave for our [my] children and grandchildren.
I met more folks during the flood, and I plan to keep them informed on this National-ID BS. . . . None of them are happy about it.
Preview of upcoming fun:
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 05:53 AM NHFT
Quote from: John on May 17, 2006, 05:28 AM NHFT
Sen. John E. Sununu has the ANOTHER VIEW opinion piece in today's New Hampshire Union Leader: "REAL ID: unnecessary, unfunded and unlikely to make you safer"
Well Sununu THANKS ALOT FOR VOTING FOR IT.
He didn't vote for Real ID -- He voted to ensure U.S. troops had enough funding. Voting against the spending bill to which Real ID was attached would have been a "no win" for him politically. Sununu has steadfastly opposed Real ID from the beginning.
Sununu isn't perfect, but I'm sick of people dragging him through the mud on an issue in which he is 100% on our side! >:(
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 17, 2006, 10:25 AM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 05:53 AM NHFT
Quote from: John on May 17, 2006, 05:28 AM NHFT
Sen. John E. Sununu has the ANOTHER VIEW opinion piece in today's New Hampshire Union Leader: "REAL ID: unnecessary, unfunded and unlikely to make you safer"
Well Sununu THANKS ALOT FOR VOTING FOR IT.
He didn't vote for Real ID -- He voted to ensure U.S. troops had enough funding. Voting against the spending bill to which Real ID was attached would have been a "no win" for him politically. Sununu has steadfastly opposed Real ID from the beginning.
Sununu isn't perfect, but I'm sick of people dragging him through the mud on an issue in which he is 100% on our side! >:(
Well he could have voted No and said I am for the spending bill but... I don't want these sneaky tricks about REAL ID. So I oppose this bill. It would have at least started a debate about this issue.
At least he didn't vote for it before voting against it!
I have lovely senators.
Quote from: Dreepa on May 17, 2006, 10:28 AM NHFT
Well he could have voted No and said I am for the spending bill but... I don't want these sneaky tricks about REAL ID. So I oppose this bill. It would have at least started a debate about this issue.
He could have, but at a the risk of being "the one Senator who didn't support the troops" and lending credence to those who say opposition to Real ID is a fringe issue. For better or worse, he made a judgement call on that. People should stop saying he "voted for Real ID" when he is in fact Capitol Hill's most vocal opponent of Real ID.
Let's save the vitriol for Bass, Bradley and Gregg.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 17, 2006, 10:43 AM NHFT
People should stop saying he "voted for Real ID" when he is in fact Capitol Hill's most vocal opponent of Real ID.
Let's save the vitriol for Bass, Bradley and Gregg.
People tend to come out swinging when they think they've been betrayed by someone who is supposed to be on their side.
It's not personal when your opponents don't vote your way, but it stings when your allies vote against you.
Quote from: KBCraig on May 17, 2006, 11:00 AM NHFT
...it stings when your allies vote against you.
For the last time, Sununu didn't vote "against us" on Real ID. He did not betray us. His reasons for voting for the spending bill are readily apparent, and he worked hard in an effort to prevent Real ID from being attached to the bill.
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 17, 2006, 11:37 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on May 17, 2006, 11:00 AM NHFT
...it stings when your allies vote against you.
For the last time, Sununu didn't vote "against us" on Real ID. He did not betray us.
Perhaps you misread my post. I was stating the reasons people
feel upset with Sununu, rather that Gregg and Bradley and Bass.
I'm not attacking Sununu, so you don't need to be his apologist.
I do believe he should have made a big stink about the Real ID amendment being attached to the military spending bill, but he didn't do so.
Kevin
Sununu should be judged on his actions. He voted for it, whatever his reasons. We can't see into his mind to know his motivations.
Quote from: KBCraig on May 17, 2006, 11:41 AM NHFT
Perhaps you misread my post. I was stating the reasons people feel upset with Sununu, rather that Gregg and Bradley and Bass.
I understand. My point is that people should stop
feeling and reconsider the focus of their anger.
Quote from: katdillon on May 17, 2006, 11:59 AM NHFT
Sununu should be judged on his actions. He voted for it, whatever his reasons. We can't see into his mind to know his motivations.
We don't have to because he and other US Senators spoke out about how horrible the REAL ID is. We already know what they were thinking because they told us.
Quote from: Keith and Stuff on May 17, 2006, 12:19 PM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on May 17, 2006, 11:59 AM NHFT
Sununu should be judged on his actions. He voted for it, whatever his reasons. We can't see into his mind to know his motivations.
We don't have to because he and other US Senators spoke out about how horrible the REAL ID is. We already know what they were thinking because they told us.
Dude, you are an asshole.
Politicians lie. That is their job.
OK, now you can get back to believing what they tell you.
Quote from: katdillon on May 17, 2006, 08:44 AM NHFT
Preview of upcoming fun:
Too cool...
yet one more reason to love the KFP!
Good lord Keith, you believe what a politician says??
Yes, sometimes, I do. I know lots of politicians (including many of the forum).
Quote from: Ruger Mason on May 17, 2006, 10:25 AM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 05:53 AM NHFT
Quote from: John on May 17, 2006, 05:28 AM NHFT
Sen. John E. Sununu has the ANOTHER VIEW opinion piece in today's New Hampshire Union Leader: "REAL ID: unnecessary, unfunded and unlikely to make you safer"
Well Sununu THANKS ALOT FOR VOTING FOR IT.
He didn't vote for Real ID -- He voted to ensure U.S. troops had enough funding. Voting against the spending bill to which Real ID was attached would have been a "no win" for him politically. Sununu has steadfastly opposed Real ID from the beginning.
Sununu isn't perfect, but I'm sick of people dragging him through the mud on an issue in which he is 100% on our side! >:(
He voted for it. Our state senators found the will to stop a "valuable" bill about state health when the senate amended it with 1582, why didn't Sununu find the will to stop RealID... and it's a double whammy by not wasting our tax money on pointless military spending.
I can't vote for or against sununu since I'm not in his district, but I think he's the best federal rep NH has. I'd be very wary about getting him out of office.
Greg though, needs to get out FAST, and next time he's on the ballot, I'm voting for the other guy.
All politicans lie. I want to get involved in politics (possibly run for state house)... and I'm well aware that I might drop a few mistruths to appease my voters. No bones about it I'll vote straight libertarian, but I may have to disguise my motivations by doing so.
It's called pandering. See my thread about the MJ survey... I don't believe in any of that hooey I wrote, that was just to appeal to those who might not quite see the world in a 100% libertarian way.
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 02:58 PM NHFT
I can't vote for or against sununu since I'm not in his district, but I think he's the best federal rep NH has. I'd be very wary about getting him out of office.
Hey Matt,
Better do some fact checking about voting for the US Senate. :-X
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 03:01 PM NHFT
All politicans lie.
I know of several people who post on this very board that plan to run for State Rep come November.
They're giving up a huge chunk of time out of their lives, but in return, they will be well-placed to fight for liberty.
Sununu may or may not lie, he may be late in publicly opposing Real-ID, but can you name
any Senator for
any other state that is even doing that much?
Sununu is the most Libertarian member of the US Senate.
That, to me, speaks volumes.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 17, 2006, 03:36 PM NHFT
but can you name any Senator for any other state that is even doing that much?
He likes to spend money but Feingold from WI.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 17, 2006, 03:36 PM NHFT
Sununu may or may not lie, he may be late in publicly opposing Real-ID, but can you name any Senator for any other state that is even doing that much?
I haven't seen him
DO anything but flap his gums.
Sununu also voted to extend the patriot act.
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=2473.msg42667#msg42667
But he is a Republican.... ???
Quote from: Dreepa on May 17, 2006, 03:03 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 02:58 PM NHFT
I can't vote for or against sununu since I'm not in his district, but I think he's the best federal rep NH has. I'd be very wary about getting him out of office.
Hey Matt,
Better do some fact checking about voting for the US Senate. :-X
Why, what did I get wrong?
Quote from: d_goddard on May 17, 2006, 03:36 PM NHFT
Sununu is the most Libertarian member of the US Senate.
That, to me, speaks volumes.
I said he's the best federal rep we've got (between the HOR and the senate).
Ron Paul is by FAR the most libertarian rep, but he's a texan. NH needs a second sununu in place of Greg.
And he's very good at siding with the majority whilst voting with the facists. His votes mean more to me than his words.
Ron Paul is in the House not the Senate.
Check out Article I section 3 regarding who 'represents' you in the Senate.
One more post, then I'll stop feeding this sub-thread.
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 04:32 PM NHFT
His votes mean more to me than his words.
The vote was stacked against anyone voting against Real-ID. They literallyhad to choose between voting to let people die needlessly, versus stopping Real-ID. The few that are serious about Liberty are doing exctly what Sununu is doing: trying to kill Real-ID now that the money for the troops and flood victime has been allocated.
This is in stark contrast to our NH Republican Senators, who literally had no nother issues confounding their votes, when they deliberately killed 1582.
Quote from: d_goddard on May 17, 2006, 05:09 PM NHFT
One more post, then I'll stop feeding this sub-thread.
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 04:32 PM NHFT
His votes mean more to me than his words.
The vote was stacked against anyone voting against Real-ID. They literallyhad to choose between voting to let people die needlessly, versus stopping Real-ID.
Denis while I may agree with you on the big picture with you on this on.... but
voting to let people die.... BULLSHIT.
It would have been 99-1
How would people have died?
Quote from: Dreepa on May 17, 2006, 04:57 PM NHFT
Ron Paul is in the House not the Senate.
Check out Article I section 3 regarding who 'represents' you in the Senate.
Matt I will make it easy on you -- every State gets 2 Senators.... they represent the whole state. You can vote for both positions.
Quote from: Dreepa on May 17, 2006, 05:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on May 17, 2006, 05:09 PM NHFT
They literallyhad to choose between voting to let people die needlessly, versus stopping Real-ID.
Denis while I may agree with you on the big picture with you on this on.... but voting to let people die.... BULLSHIT.
It would have been 99-1
How would people have died?
Parse the sentence again... I said, "voting to let people die", not "a vote that would cause people to die".
Anyone voting against the bill would have to explain to angry constituents why they wanted the troops not to have body armor, and why they wanted people in New Orleans to starve, because "that's what they voted for".
Quote from: Dreepa on May 17, 2006, 04:57 PM NHFT
Ron Paul is in the House not the Senate.
Check out Article I section 3 regarding who 'represents' you in the Senate.
I was talking about federal representatives... not as in "house of" but "representative of the people."
Quote from: aries on May 17, 2006, 05:47 PM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on May 17, 2006, 04:57 PM NHFT
Ron Paul is in the House not the Senate.
Check out Article I section 3 regarding who 'represents' you in the Senate.
I was talking about federal representatives... not as in "house of" but "representative of the people."
You said you weren't in Sununu's district. Sununu is a Senator; his district, just like Gregg's, is the entire state of NH.
Kevin
Quote from: katdillon on May 17, 2006, 08:44 AM NHFT
Preview of upcoming fun:
Keene Free Press to the rescue.
Nice job Kat and Russell. 8)
Can we take advantage of the biggest opportunity this movement has had to date?
Or did the slick bastards sends us away with our tails between our legs. The future belongs to the bold.
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=2118.msg67525#msg67525
2 exec councilors said to be leaning against Real ID grant acceptance
I got a call from Deborah Pignatelli, my executive councilor, today. She says absent some massive new piece of information she plans to vote against accepting the Federal money for Real ID. She says Councilor Spaulding also seems to be leaning that direction. I didn't ask her about Lynch. She seemed to think the study committee was still in play but i assume she was just a week behind in her information...it's been killed, correct?
Of course, Lynch said he would sign the House bill opting us out of Real ID, but will he refuse to take the fed money also? and will any of the other three Exec councilors vote not to take the money? who knows
I asked her how the public could best act to make sure her side wins this vote, and she directed me toward that study committee which may have already been killed...so I'm not sure how we get involved exactly. But I do urge all of you to write your exec councilors, who can be contacted via
http://www.nh.gov/council/
Pignatelli said it is not necessarily a bad idea to e-mail Councilors who are in another district as well.
The commission is dead. There will be no commission.
I like the idea of pictures of the 14 with their names somewhere close. Could you make it not so long and thin?
These guys voted for national ID
Like mug shots on a wanted poster.
Quote from: katdillon on May 18, 2006, 05:04 AM NHFT
Like mug shots on a wanted poster.
ooh...just had a great idea. Make up old west style wanted posters!
"WANTED:
For High Crimes Against Freedom
[politicians pic and name]
Crime: Voted for REAL ID and dirty federal money.
Last seen caving under pressure from congressional staffers and trampling on civil liberties.
Guys, Gallus defied the republicans and voted against the amendment, and against amended 1582, he's been a good senator.
He did vote against the commission... maybe he felt that it was useless at this point or something... I just don't want to make him an enemy yet, he's been a pro-liberty senator, on the whole.
Quote from: aries on May 18, 2006, 06:07 AM NHFT
Guys, Gallus defied the republicans and voted against the amendment, and against amended 1582, he's been a good senator.
He did vote against the commission... maybe he felt that it was useless at this point or something... I just don't want to make him an enemy yet, he's been a pro-liberty senator, on the whole.
He voted to study the problem, then voted to ensure there would be no study.
Why was that crucial death-sentence of 1582 unanimous?
Because Gallus, like Martel, and Roberge, and Letourneu, and the rest, all caved in to Washington (and to Gatsas)
If you can cut some slack to Gallus, surely a little slack can be cut to the others... to all except the few who were the key players (Gatsas, Clegg, and Barnes are my anti-favorites)
Quote from: Pat McCotter on May 07, 2006, 07:38 AM NHFT
Senate vote on amendment to HB1582 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotedetail.asp?sessionyear=2006&voteno=116&body=S)
Senate vote on OTP w/Amendment (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/rollcall/rollcallsbyvotedetail.asp?sessionyear=2006&voteno=117&body=S)
Please help me make sure I get this right.
Senate vote on amendment: Yes vote = bad
Senate vote on OTP w/amendment: Yes vote = bad or ?
I can work on the 14 soon...
Today, got to go take the family for dental fun... Oh Boy :P
Wanted posters, line ups, all good ideas.
You guys can help steer me to the right tone. Thanks for the feedback. :)
Was up late starting to wade through the video footage. Boy those guys sure were slippery. ;D
Quote from: katdillon on May 18, 2006, 07:00 AM NHFT
Please help me make sure I get this right.
Senate vote on amendment: Yes vote = bad
Senate vote on OTP w/amendment: Yes vote = bad or ?
Senate Committee vote on OTP : Yes vote = Good (this was when all 6 on the commitee voted 1582 Ought To Pass)
Senate vote on amendment: Yes vote = BAD (This is what gutted the original 1582)
Senate vote on OTP w/amendment : Yes vote = Good, or at least as good as it gets at that point (At least that way there'd be a study committee)
Senate vote on Barnes' motion against formation of Committee of Conference : Yes vote = BAD (This is what finally killed it DEAD, no more discussion, no studies, kicked the bucket, shuffled off the mortal coil, run down the curtain and joined the choir invisibile!)
Quote from: aries on May 18, 2006, 06:07 AM NHFT
He did vote against the commission... maybe he felt that it was useless at this point or something... I just don't want to make him an enemy yet, he's been a pro-liberty senator, on the whole.
Gallus voted against the committee of conference, not the commission. If you want to know exactly why he did, you'll have to ask him. I suspect however that both he and Bragdon realized that the committee of conference would have gone nowhere, and been a waste of time for those involved. It might have been great fun for us to watch, but senators are very busy and probably aren't interested in spending hours on futile exercise.
Sent this to Councilor Wieczorek and a customized version to each of the Councilors. I've also e-mailed Lynch's office.
Below this message I will post contact info for all the Councilors.
Dear Councilor Wieczorek:
I wanted to ask what, if anything, you are planning to do to stop the acceptance of that 3 million dollar, kiss-of-death Real ID grant. After the duplicitous actions of the normally pro-liberty Senate majority, I understand the Council and Governor have become a last line of defense between me and the advent of a Federal surveillance state. I understand you can refuse to take the money and thus stop Real ID in New Hampshire.
I hope you will do so, that you will vote to say no to this money, rather standing still while they try to brand and track us like animals.
Thanks for listening,
(sig)
P.S.: I would *love* to have a driver's license that says is it is "not approved" by the Federal government!
exec councilor contact info :
Councilor Raymond S. Burton
Councilor Raymond Burton
338 River Road
Bath, New Hampshire 03740
Telephone:
Home Office: 603/747-3662
Business: 603/787-6941
Car: 603/481-0863
E-Mail:
rburton@gov.state.nh.us
Party Affiliation:
Republican
Councilor Peter J. Spaulding
Councilor Peter J. Spaulding
Biography
Address:
386 Gage Hill Road
Hopkinton, New Hampshire 03229
Telephone:
Home Office: 603/746-2670
E-Mail:
pspaulding@gov.state.nh.us
Party Affiliation:
Republican
Councilor Ruth L. Griffin
Councilor Ruth L. Griffin
Biography
Address:
479 Richards Avenue
Portsmouth, New Hampshire 03801
Telephone:
Home Office: 603/436-5272
E-Mail:
rgriffin@gov.state.nh.us
Party Affiliation:
Republican
Councilor Raymond J. Wieczorek
Councilor Raymond J. Wieczorek
Biography
Address:
1060 Ray Street
Manchester, NH 03104-1620
Telephone:
Home Office: 603-624-1655
Office: 603-271-3632
E-Mail:
rwieczorek@gov.state.nh.us
Party Affiliation:
Republican
Councilor Debora Pignatelli
Address:
22 Appletree Green
Nashua, NH 03062
Telephone:
Home Office: 603-888-5245
E-Mail:
debora.pignatelli@nh.gov
Party Affiliation:
Democrat
Quote
and why they wanted people in New Orleans to starve
A minor point I don't think has been addressd anywhere: The REAL ID Act was part of a bill to fund Asian tsunami recovery, not Hurricane Katrina victims. Of course, the NH senators got it wrong during the floor debate, as they referred to the bill as being for Katrina recovery. REAL ID was passed in May 2005. Katrina hit in August 2005.
Quote from: NC2NH on May 18, 2006, 09:46 PM NHFT
Quote
and why they wanted people in New Orleans to starve
A minor point I don't think has been addressd anywhere: The REAL ID Act was part of a bill to fund Asian tsunami recovery, not Hurricane Katrina victims. Of course, the NH senators got it wrong during the floor debate, as they referred to the bill as being for Katrina recovery. REAL ID was passed in May 2005. Katrina hit in August 2005.
H.R.1268
Title: An act making
Emergency Supplemental Appropriations for Defense, the Global War on Terror, and Tsunami Relief, for the fiscal year ending September 30, 2005,
and for other purposes.
..... and for the children.
Were any of you there for the final vote to destroy the committee?
Searching around found this video.
From http://www.carolforcongress.com/
QuoteVideo from the 4/22 Real ID Rally in Concord
on Monday, April 24th 2006 8:50 pm
On April 22 Carol spoke at the Real ID Rally in Concord NH. The rally was sponsored by a coalition of NH Citizen's groups who oppose the National Real ID act and support State legislation to make NH compliance against the law. More info at www.granitestateid.com
Watch the video of Carol's speech.
Windows Media Format: Download Video | running time: 7:00 http://www.carolforcongress.com/media/c4c_realid_042206.wmv (http://www.carolforcongress.com/media/c4c_realid_042206.wmv)
MPEG 4 format (ipod/quicktime): Download Video | running time: 7:00 http://www.carolforcongress.com/media/c4c_realid_042206.mp4 (http://www.carolforcongress.com/media/c4c_realid_042206.mp4)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Sent this to all five councilors:
Dear Councilor XXXXXXX,
I hope you have been following the recent legislative battle over whether or not New Hampshire should comply with the federal Real ID program. Bowing to pressure from Washington, DC, twelve NH state senators voted to gut HB 1582, which would have spared our state and its taxpayers from the burden of compliance with this intrusive and unnecessary federal mandate.
And now it appears that the governor and executive council are our only line of defense against this irrational scheme to accept Real ID before the federal government even tells us what Real ID will be. Would you buy a car from Homeland Security boss Michael Chertoff without even looking under the hood?
I urge you to vote against accepting this three million dollar bribe from the federal government. Once New Hampshire accepts that money, there will be no going back; our driver's license system will be beholden to the whims and fancies of an unelected Washington bureaucrat. Just what we need, right?
Please understand that this may be the most important vote you cast as executive councilor. Thank you for listening.
Matt Simon
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
And Dada, thanks for posting the councilor info.
Quote from: Rocketman on May 19, 2006, 01:06 PM NHFT
Sent this to all five councilors:
Dear Councilor XXXXXXX,
I hope you have been following the recent legislative battle over whether or not New Hampshire should comply with the federal Real ID program. Bowing to pressure from Washington, DC, twelve NH state senators voted to gut HB 1582, which would have spared our state and its taxpayers from the burden of compliance with this intrusive and unnecessary federal mandate.
And now it appears that the governor and executive council are our only line of defense against this irrational scheme to accept Real ID before the federal government even tells us what Real ID will be. Would you buy a car from Homeland Security boss Michael Chertoff without even looking under the hood?
I urge you to vote against accepting this three million dollar bribe from the federal government. Once New Hampshire accepts that money, there will be no going back; our driver's license system will be beholden to the whims and fancies of an unelected Washington bureaucrat. Just what we need, right?
Please understand that this may be the most important vote you cast as executive councilor. Thank you for listening.
Matt Simon
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
XXXXXXXXXXX
Very well done... has an edge without going over the top. (I have trouble with that balancing act ;))
Oh yeah Dreepa, it was 14... I was subtracting Bragdon and Gallus from the number 14, not 16. Math=suck.
Thanks Roger, that's what I was going for.
From last Sunday's Monitor.. I missed this:
Harsh words
Senate Majority Leader Bob Clegg had heated words about Rep. Neal Kurk during the House-Senate game of chicken over Real ID.
The Senate wanted to accept a $3 million federal grant in exchange for trying out the program. The House saw it as a payoff to accept federal drivers'license rules that could violate New Hampshire's "Live Free or Die" spirit.
Victory for the Senate came with a cost: the demise of a bill to grant the health commissioner broad emergency powers in the event of a pandemic.
Clegg said he had the perfect way to get back at Kurk, who is so private he does not even provide his picture for the legislative handbook. "We're going to get a billboard and put his face on it to find out what it is he wants to hide from," Clegg said, launching into a fiery monologue. "If somebody dies (in a pandemic), Neal Kurk can sit there and decide whether or not he's got a conscience."
Clegg railed against Kurk's fear of Social Security numbers and made a couple of cracks about what Kurk might have learned at "Hah-vahd," among other remarks. (Kurk is a Harvard Law alum - not that he supplied the information to the handbook.)
Scribes scribbled.
"I can keep going if you really want me to beat him up," Clegg said.
Senate President Ted Gatsasrolled his eyes, and the media pack around Clegg dispersed.
"He's like a gasoline fire, so don't keep his blaze perpetuating," Gatsas said.
Wow... getting yelled at by Clegg sounds kinda fun. Kurk looks better and better every time they attack him. ;D
Quote from: Dreepa on May 19, 2006, 03:15 PM NHFT
Clegg said he had the perfect way to get back at Kurk, who is so private he does not even provide his picture for the legislative handbook. "We're going to get a billboard and put his face on it to find out what it is he wants to hide from," Clegg said, launching into a fiery monologue. "If somebody dies (in a pandemic), Neal Kurk can sit there and decide whether or not he's got a conscience."
...
"I can keep going if you really want me to beat him up," Clegg said.
Quote from: Rocketman on May 19, 2006, 03:22 PM NHFT
Wow... getting yelled at by Clegg sounds kinda fun. Kurk looks better and better every time they attack him. ;D
Yep.
Perfect example of how negative campaigning backfires.
Clegg is digging his own hole.
Like my Dad says... "Never give your enemies a club to beat you over the head with!"
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon Bonaparte
Quote from: Dreepa on May 19, 2006, 03:15 PM NHFT
"He's like a gasoline fire, so don't keep his blaze perpetuating," Gatsas said.
Tunga was taught in 11th grade science class at Concord High School that a gallon of gasoline equals 14 sticks of dynamite.
Which means that when Senator Clegg fills his properly licenced, registered and inspected motor vehicle up with gas he is carrying around at least the explosive equivilant of 168 sticks of TNT.
That and the wit nessessary to strike a match makes him a potential terrorist in any neighborhood he cares to drive through.
Only the UN can save us now. ::)
Quote from: dead president on May 19, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon Bonaparte
Good one
Quote from: dead president on May 19, 2006, 04:27 PM NHFT
"Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake." -Napoleon Bonaparte
<Applauds>
Just got this note from Councilor Burton. A good sign, and a good sign that emailing these folks is worth our time and effort!
Matt---
I too am troubled by this entire matter.
If this comes to Gov/'Council for a vote, I'll be looking VERY carefully at this. as of now I'm leaning toward a NO vote!
Keep in touch---
Ray Burton
So, Pignatelli + Spaulding + Burton = three, right?
My math skills aren't so good, but this gives me reason for optimism. The fight against Real ID must go on!
Why can't he say "no" now?
Dear Councillor Wieczorek:
In his first inaugural address, President Ronald Reagan reminded us that "Government is not the solution to our problems; government is the problem." Washington's recent Real ID mandate is typical of the government "solutions" that Reagan was warning us against: it's expensive, it's intrusive, and even its proponents don't understand how it's supposed to work. Unfortunately, the New Hampshire senate voted earlier this month to gut HB1582, which would have kept New Hampshire out of Real ID.
As a member of the Executive Council, you now represent New Hampshire's last line of defense against the bureaucratic boondoggle that is Real ID. I urge you to vote against the acceptance of the three-million-dollar bribe that the federal government is offering us to serve as guinea pigs for this latest exercise in central planning. New Hampshire taxpayers shouldn't have to bear the cost, in either dollars or liberty, of Washington's latest attempt to look tough on terrorism by numbering and tracking innocent American citizens.
Please, Councillor Wieczorek, take this unique opportunity to keep New Hampshire free. Refuse Washington's three-million-dollar Real ID bribe, and refuse to authorize the expenditure of even a single penny of Granite Staters' money in aid of the Real ID program. Let's show those who view New Hampshire as fertile ground for the growth of a surveillance state that "Live Free or Die" still means something to us up here.
Very best regards,
Chandler B Gabel
Here's a copy of the letter I sent to each of the five councilors
-----------------------------------------------------------
Dear Ms. Pignatelli
I understand that the Executive Council is facing an
upcoming vote on whether to accept the $3 Million
Dollars from the Federal Government for the purposes
of implementing the Real ID. I am writing you to
request that you vote "NO" to accepting the money.
As you are aware, the NH House overwhelmingly voted in
favor of HB1582, which would have assured that New
Hampshire did not participate in this system.
The Senate voted to amend it by sending it to a study
committee (and then eventually killing the committee.)
This effectively killed HB1582. I found the
reasoning of Senator Barnes to be shocking: He said
that he believed that he trusted the federal
government to restore our freedoms when the war on
terror is over.
However, most here in the Granite State do not share
his faith in the federal government. Most feel that
the federal government has gone too far, and frankly
feel that our precious liberties are at stake.
Several points are worthy of consideration:
1) Dick Cheney said, regarding the war on terror:
"The answer is that many of these changes we've made
are permanent, at least in the lifetime of most of us.
Vigilance against the new threat is not just a
temporary precaution, it's a responsibility we all
share." I, for one, cannot accept that in my
lifetime, I must accept erosion of our liberties. If
we allow the terrorists to do this to us, they have
already won.
2) Many New Hampshire citizens are already preparing
for worst case scenarios (if NH accepts the Real ID),
and a large number of people will be surrendering
their driver's licenses. This will make for some
poignant controversy down the line, and inevitable
court battles, especially among those who give up
their Real ID for religious reasons. After all,
certain strands of Christianity view a universal
idenification card as the "mark of the beast." Are
the court battles really worth it? Do we really want
to make criminals of our Patriots?
3) Is NH's system really broken? I, for one, cannot
believe that it is. Why spend ten million dollars
(the federal government will only give us three
million of that to implement the system) to fix a
system that isn't broken?
For the record, I am one who will give up my driver's
license if NH insists on doing this.
I appreciate that you have committed to investigating
this issue thoroughly and doing the right thing for
the citizens of New Hampshire. May God bless you,
Caleb Johnson
Cool 8)
Glad to see our folks not letting this drop...
(Hey Caleb, the Democrats are starting to appeal to me... OMG)
Been working through the video. Good therapy. ;D Although it is a real challenge... tell the story in a concise way.
This screen capture is from right are the shafting vote.
Looking forward to being able to say "Hey Ted... How ya like me now!"
[attachment deleted by admin]
Excellent letters, Captain and Caleb! Very persuasive stuff, I think.
Actually, if this is true. Can't Lynch Veto the spending bill himself?
Should we be writing lynch? He had promised to pass 1582 if it made it to him.
Tracy
Quote from: tracysaboe on May 20, 2006, 05:28 PM NHFT
Actually, if this is true. Can't Lynch Veto the spending bill himself?
Should we be writing lynch? He had promised to pass 1582 if it made it to him.
Tracy
He's a bit of a softie go-with-the-flow fellow, I wouldn't expect him to take radical action, but it's worth a shot.
sending this to the concord monitor as soon as my one letter per month limit expires.
---
Dear folks at the Monitor:
I enjoyed your article on May 14 about the deepening state of gridlock between our state reps and state senators. The Senate's shameless and duplicitous neutering of the "Real ID Resistance Bill" has already cost them heavily. It will likely cost them more before the story is over.
These folks in the Senate leadership...what are they thinking??
If their actions are any indication, they?re thinking it is okay to help the FedGov number and track N.H. citizens like inventory. They?re thinking if they candy coat or hide their support for Real ID we won't notice. They?re thinking that whining about State Rep Neal Kurk will generate sympathy for them. And they?re thinking they can stop him from destroying their powermongering nanny-bills by putting his picture up on a billboard.
But *I?m* thinking they are *losing it.*
When it comes to pictures, the most appropriate image I can think of would look something like this: It would feature all 14 senators who voted to cooperate with the Feds in the privacy-killing Real ID scheme. It would show their names and faces clearly. And it would be a WANTED poster.
Yea "Wanted: Out of Power"
Very well done Dave... thanks.
You guys are great.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 21, 2006, 12:45 AM NHFT
Yea "Wanted: Out of Power"
My thought was it should be "No longer wanted" or "NOT WANTED".
Quote from: Ron Helwig on May 21, 2006, 09:05 AM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on May 21, 2006, 12:45 AM NHFT
Yea "Wanted: Out of Power"
My thought was it should be "No longer wanted" or "NOT WANTED".
Does DOA stand for Dead or Alive or is it Dead on Arrival?
Tunga remembers (cause he is wicked old) the Beatles Sgt. Peppers Album art was full of inuendo regarding the whole "Paul is dead" thing. The patch on Pauls sleeve had the initials O.P.D. just visible in the photo.
The jive was that this was code for Officially pronounced dead.
Tell that to his latest ex.
Cha ching.
But the REAL ID database would be 100% secure.... right?
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060522/ap_on_go_ca_st_pe/veterans_disk
Great... >:( thanks Uncle Sam (assholes)
Just another thank you for giving them part of my life.
Here's another club to bang over their heads:
-----
Personal Data of 26.5M Veterans Stolen
By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer 5/22/06
WASHINGTON - Personal data, including
Social Security numbers of 26.5 million U.S. veterans, was stolen from a Veterans Affairs employee this month after he took the information home without authorization, the department said Monday.
ADVERTISEMENT
Veterans Affairs Secretary Jim Nicholson said there was no evidence so far that the burglars who struck the employee's home have used the personal data ? or even know they have it. The employee, a data analyst whom Nicholson would not identify, has been placed on leave pending a review.
"We have a full-scale investigation," said Nicholson, who said the
FBI, local law enforcement and the VA inspector general were investigating. "I want to emphasize, there was no medical records of any veteran and no financial information of any veteran that's been compromised."
"We have decided that we must exercise an abundance of caution and make sure our veterans aware of this incident," he said in a conference call with reporters.
The theft of stolen information comes as the department has come under criticism for shoddy accounting practices and for falling short on the needs of veterans. Last year, more than 260,000 veterans could not sign up for services because of cost-cutting. Audits also have shown the agency used misleading accounting methods and lacked documentation to prove its claimed savings.
On Monday, the VA said it was in the process of notifying members of Congress and the individual veterans about the burglary, setting up a call center and Web site if veterans believe their information has been misused.
It also is stepping up its review of procedures for the use of personal data for many of its employees who telecommute as well as others who must sign disclosure forms showing they are aware of federal privacy laws and the consequences if they're violated.
Nicholson declined to comment on the specifics of the incident, which involved a career employee who had taken the information home to suburban Maryland ? on disks, according to congressional sources who were briefed on the incident ? to work on a department project.
The residential community had been a target of a series of burglaries and the employee was victimized earlier this month, according to the FBI in Baltimore, which was investigating the incident.
The material represents personal data of all living veterans who served and have been discharged since 1976, according to the department. The information was included the veterans' discharge summary that goes into a government database.
___
On the Net:
Information for veterans suspecting identity theft:
http://www.firstgov.gov or 1-800-FED-INFO
Yeah! I knew my life was forfeit while I was enlisted, but 30 years later it is still vulnerable to the slime pit of bureaucracy?
Anger...disgust ... becoming ... unmanagable
:angry4:
Time to go to the pistol range and blow holes in a few dozen paper targets.
Quote from: Tunga on May 21, 2006, 08:58 PM NHFT
Tunga remembers (cause he is wicked old) the Beatles Sgt. Peppers Album art was full of inuendo regarding the whole "Paul is dead" thing. The patch on Pauls sleeve had the initials O.P.D. just visible in the photo.
The jive was that this was code for Officially pronounced dead.
Tell that to his latest ex.
Cha ching.
Has Tunga ever played Revolution Number 9 backwards? (Vinyl record only) AlanM has, and he heard John's voice say "I buried Paul"
Hey ..... the good news is that there is no more info to be stolen in the real ID database .... it is already out there.
Quote from: AlanM on May 22, 2006, 08:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tunga on May 21, 2006, 08:58 PM NHFT
Tunga remembers (cause he is wicked old) the Beatles Sgt. Peppers Album art was full of inuendo regarding the whole "Paul is dead" thing. The patch on Pauls sleeve had the initials O.P.D. just visible in the photo.
The jive was that this was code for Officially pronounced dead.
Tell that to his latest ex.
Cha ching.
Has Tunga ever played Revolution Number 9 backwards? (Vinyl record only) AlanM has, and he heard John's voice say "I buried Paul"
According to John in the Playboy interview which Tunga finished reading the night Lennon was killed, he claims that at the end of Strawberry fields forever when you can here what sounds like the same phrase forwards it was really "cranberry sauce".
Number 9 backwards was "Turn me on dead man".
There was also a moaning "Oh untimley death" burried in there too. Those guys had some fun getting us to destroy the stylus.
There was an article about the wife of a NH Senator who felt harassed ( I think it was Flanders' wife) Sen Johnson's wife I can't find the article right now.
edit--- for the strike... Thank you Tunga
This was an LTE today:
http://concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060523/REPOSITORY/605230369/1029/OPINION03
The wife of the state senator who felt harassed by the people who she thinks know absolutely nothing about the federal government's really ignorant desire to brand us like cattle is lucky it was only a phone call that bothered her and not the third-degree burns her favorite senator might be recovering from following a good old-fashioned tarring with feathers.
Not really the best way to win hearts and minds now is it?
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060518/REPOSITORY/605180331&SearchID=73245445778679
http://papersplease.org/scan.html?a=f&id=57
Alaska Says 'No' To REAL ID
Alaska struck the first legal blow in the fight against a national ID card by refusing to pass legislation to bring the state in line with REAL ID requirements.
The bill, SB-189, breezed through the state's rubber stamp Senate before being killed by a duo of freedom-loving legislators in the House of Representatives.
Who are these heroes of the Bill of Rights? Front and center is Rep. Paul Seaton of Homer, a commercial fisherman and Chairman of the House State Affairs Committee. Through his leadership and by voting against fellow Republicans, Rep. Seaton killed SB-189 and beat back a last minute attempt to resurrect the bill by his party. The party paid him back by killing most, if not all of his own bills.
Assisting him in fighting-off REAL ID was Rep. Max Gruenberg of Anchorage, the former House majority leader when it was under Democratic control. Rep. Gruenberg worked across party lines to make sure that this piece of un-American legislation died on the vine.
The Identity Project is proud to have been involved in testifying before the State Affairs Committee and providing the information needed to make sure that the oppression of a national ID card never hits the shores of the Last Frontier.
Alaska has said 'no' to a national ID card: which other state will love freedom enough to follow in their footsteps?
http://freestateblogs.net/node/478
Hmm, Alaska has a hard-to-deal-with senate as well... at least we aren't alone.
I've been thinking for years about an "unwanted" poster for situations like this, but negative campaigning usually backfires in NH. It WOULD make the news though, methinks. Darn, it WOULD be cute, though....
JM
Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2006, 01:01 PM NHFT
Why can't he say "no" now?
I have one
commitment to vote with the good team. As in, "You can count on me . . ."
We need to keep working!
So do this:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3865.0
I need input on this video piece I'm working on featuring Pastor Garrett Lear.
2 3/4 minutes screening copy of a work in progress.
http://www.politicalgraffiti.com/no_national_id/Garrett_Lear-Pastor-SAMPLE.mov
QuickTime 5.3 MB file
H.264 codec
[I'll post a version for those folks that have difficulty with this codec later (can't tie up the computer right now)]
It needs some text to sum up the trickery of the Senators. It would go over the black at the end.
Needs to be concise and of the right tone for a church audience.
The struggle over the Real ID National ID is really just beginning, I'd like to get this in front of the wider audience soon.
Going to try and watch it, but how about someone reading William Wipple's summary of what went on?
http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=126&Itemid=36
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 25, 2006, 02:58 PM NHFT
I need input on this video piece I'm working on featuring Pastor Garrett Lear.
2 3/4 minutes screening copy of a work in progress.
http://www.politicalgraffiti.com/no_national_id/Garrett_Lear-Pastor-SAMPLE.mov
QuickTime 5.3 MB file
H.264 codec
[I'll post a version for those folks that have difficulty with this codec later (can't tie up the computer right now)]
It needs some text to sum up the trickery of the Senators. It would go over the black at the end.
Needs to be concise and of the right tone for a church audience.
The struggle over the Real ID National ID is really just beginning, I'd like to get this in front of the wider audience soon.
Some suggestions, mostly to do with having to edit Garret Lear when he's not being very clear.
He says "I support HB1582, now some people call that Real ID". That makes it sound like HB1582 is real ID, something he supports. This may confuse people. So I propose cutting out the "now some people call that real ID" part, making it "I'm here because I support HB1582, I was also one of the speakers in the rally".
Also people aren't watching the interview the day it was recorded, the real id rally didn't take place last saturday anymore because the video is now old, so that part should go.
So I propose cutting it so it's: "Well my name is Garret Lear, most people know me across the country as The Patriot Pastor. I am the lead elder of Well of Living Water out of Wakefield, New Hampshire, and I am here because I support HB1582[...]. I was also one of the speakers at the rally[...] right here at the same venue right out in teh courtyard speaking on "No National ID".
Oh and the music plays over a black screen at the end for like 20 seconds, unneccesary.
I hope my criticism was constructive and was of help :)
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on May 25, 2006, 04:36 PM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 25, 2006, 02:58 PM NHFT
I need input on this video piece I'm working on featuring Pastor Garrett Lear.
2 3/4 minutes screening copy of a work in progress.
http://www.politicalgraffiti.com/no_national_id/Garrett_Lear-Pastor-SAMPLE.mov
QuickTime 5.3 MB file
H.264 codec
[I'll post a version for those folks that have difficulty with this codec later (can't tie up the computer right now)]
It needs some text to sum up the trickery of the Senators. It would go over the black at the end.
Needs to be concise and of the right tone for a church audience.
The struggle over the Real ID National ID is really just beginning, I'd like to get this in front of the wider audience soon.
Some suggestions, mostly to do with having to edit Garret Lear when he's not being very clear.
He says "I support HB1582, now some people call that Real ID". That makes it sound like HB1582 is real ID, something he supports. This may confuse people. So I propose cutting out the "now some people call that real ID" part, making it "I'm here because I support HB1582, I was also one of the speakers in the rally".
Also people aren't watching the interview the day it was recorded, the real id rally didn't take place last saturday anymore because the video is now old, so that part should go.
So I propose cutting it so it's: "Well my name is Garret Lear, most people know me across the country as The Patriot Pastor. I am the lead elder of Well of Living Water out of Wakefield, New Hampshire, and I am here because I support HB1582[...]. I was also one of the speakers at the rally[...] right here at the same venue right out in teh courtyard speaking on "No National ID".
Oh and the music plays over a black screen at the end for like 20 seconds, unneccesary.
I hope my criticism was constructive and was of help :)
Good input thanks... I'll see how I can tighten things up as you suggest. :) The challenge is the cutaway shots to cover the edits ;)
Yeah, the back and forth of positive and negative references regarding Real ID drives me crazy... I cut to the sign No Real ID to try and help.
For future efforts if there is a way to not call things some HB 1234 kind of name, that would be better. Kind of hard to get excited about a number and after the vote who cares. :)
The music going over at the end is where I'd like to put
text over black telling folks about the little trick that was pulled by the Senators and perhaps where we go from here.
Everything is still open to adjustment.
I'd like something simple and nice to give to his church (later perhaps include some of it in a longer format piece). It can be circulated in the church communities... these folks no how to organize. :)
Quote from: katdillon on May 25, 2006, 04:13 PM NHFT
Going to try and watch it, but how about someone reading William Wipple's summary of what went on?
http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=126&Itemid=36
It's well done :) but, I need like 4 short paragraphs. I'll put on in 2 screens of text at the end.
Short and (not so) sweet is what is needed.
The facts aren't as important, to cover all the details, as the emotion of being cheated into this (by DC and Concord).
The pastor followed by a gentle Paul Revere telling us 'the
Real ID national ID is come'. If done right the piece can be used no matter which way things go on the issue. Having a longer life... cause No National ID is an issue that will have a longer life than the immediate steps.
I like it, I would just add a visual to the end ... imho :)
Quote from: ravelkinbow on May 29, 2006, 07:47 PM NHFT
I like it, I would just add a visual to the end ... imho :)
I was thinking about using a piece of your interview you gave the Concord Monitor that I got on tape. " ...goes against my faith..."etc. :)
What even should we have, you ask?
Hmm after about 30 seconds of thought, I am thinking maybe we could dress up in police uniforms, labelled "Federal Identity Control Officer," ... in small print under the logo it could say "I am not a cop," to avoid that whole "posing as a police officer" thing. We could ask everybody on a sidewalk or street corner walking around to show us ID. Whether they refused or complied, we could give them printed out pamphlets explaining their rights in such a situation, why they should be fighting to preserve them, and what they can do.
Quote from: aries on May 29, 2006, 08:50 PM NHFT
Hmm after about 30 seconds of thought, I am thinking maybe we could dress up in police uniforms, labelled "Federal Identity Control Officer," ...
maybe do it in front of the concord fed building?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 30, 2006, 07:32 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 29, 2006, 08:50 PM NHFT
Hmm after about 30 seconds of thought, I am thinking maybe we could dress up in police uniforms, labelled "Federal Identity Control Officer," ...
maybe do it in front of the concord fed building?
Yeah, right on the sidewalk around there. I was thinking we could wear sunglasses and all black, to look very "official."
"Maam, I'm a federal identification control officer, could I see some ID?"
"Huh? Why?"
"I need to verify your identity"
"What for?"
At this point I can't really think of a good reply that says "Well, I'm actually here as an activist, here's some info, it's good you didn't readily volunteer your ID, as of course, no law compells you to" and then hand over a pamplet or something.
Quote from: aries on May 30, 2006, 10:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 30, 2006, 07:32 PM NHFT
Quote from: aries on May 29, 2006, 08:50 PM NHFT
Hmm after about 30 seconds of thought, I am thinking maybe we could dress up in police uniforms, labelled "Federal Identity Control Officer," ...
maybe do it in front of the concord fed building?
Yeah, right on the sidewalk around there. I was thinking we could wear sunglasses and all black, to look very "official."
"Maam, I'm a federal identification control officer, could I see some ID?"
"Huh? Why?"
"I need to verify your identity"
"What for?"
At this point I can't really think of a good reply that says "Well, I'm actually here as an activist, here's some info, it's good you didn't readily volunteer your ID, as of course, no law compells you to" and then hand over a pamplet or something.
That is a great way to get arrested. Nothing wrong with that, but if you want to get arrested you need get the news about about this act of civil dis.
Quote from: aries on May 30, 2006, 10:35 PM NHFT
Yeah, right on the sidewalk around there. I was thinking we could wear sunglasses and all black, to look very "official."
"Maam, I'm a federal identification control officer, could I see some ID?"
"Maam, I'm
a federal identification control officer conducting an identification control checkpoint, could I see some ID?"
Quote"Huh? Why?"
"I need to verify your identity"
"What for?"
"Ma'am, the Department of Homeland Security has declared that identification cards are essential to homeland security. Do you wish to voluntarily participate in a system of identity checks whenever you travel, shop, or interact with the government? If we don't reach sufficient levels of voluntary compliance, it will become mandatory. Would you want to see that?"
And then, no matter what the response, a "bystander" sweeps in to the rescue, to explain and provide literature. Don't let the MIB do the explaining, although our "agent" can join in the conversation once the situation is defused.
The problem is that this stunt requires a completely fresh audience every time. If you're relatively stationary in front of a building where pedestrians, etc., have a view of what's going on, you might have to wait a half hour or so between stages, to avoid having the next "victim" already know what's been happening.
If you want to inform more than one person at a time, you need a crowd of onlookers.
Bear with me, I'm coming up with this as I type...
I think this should be conducted as ambush theater. Conduct it for an audience, not for the "victim". The victim should be one of the players. MIB-1 confronts the victim, who resists his "for the homeland" ploy. MIB-2 sweeps in to play bad cop. Victim loudly resists, then turns to address the audience. And then, two or three bystanders step in with literature.
The problem is finding a crowd of people who will stick around for the "show", and not just walk on by. The best place to find such a crowd is anywhere people are waiting in line, and don't want to get out of line. Movie theater. Ball games. Concerts. Those are relatively captive audiences, where you can reach 20+ people within earshot with a 30 second skit.
How's that sound?
Kevin
Quote from: KBCraig on May 31, 2006, 01:03 AM NHFT
I think this should be conducted as ambush theater.
...
How's that sound?
It's brilliant and would be powerfully effective in LA, London, New York, and maybe even Boston.
But please, don't try this in NH. It would go over like a Led Zeppelin.
You'd alienate way more people than you'd illuminate.
In my experience, people here seem to prefer the well-reasoned argument, or at least the well-oiled soundbite, to political theater or demonstrations.
First rule of effective communication: Know your audience.
So what else could we do to get people to see what is going to happen to them sometime down the road anyway? What can we do to arouse their inner libertarian?
What if we just approached, looking official, and asked to see ID. If they reached for it, we could cut them off and explain their rights, then introduce some information about how to keep them. If they refused, we could tell them what the issues are and how to get involved.
I think this line might be good for getting some people involved - "The free state project is a movement to get 20,000 people who like making their own choices and having a little freedom to move to the same state to participate in state politics there..." at this point they roll their eyes and think 'I'm not moving!' "... Lucky for you, you're already in the right state!"
Quote from: Roger Grant on May 29, 2006, 08:33 PM NHFT
Quote from: ravelkinbow on May 29, 2006, 07:47 PM NHFT
I like it, I would just add a visual to the end ... imho :)
I was thinking about using a piece of your interview you gave the Concord Monitor that I got on tape. " ...goes against my faith..."etc. :)
go for it just zip up a copy for me and send it too me...pretty please and thank you
and Thank you for the compliment of wanted to use something I said :)
Quote from: aries on May 31, 2006, 09:04 AM NHFT
So what else could we do to get people to see what is going to happen to them sometime down the road anyway? What can we do to arouse their inner libertarian?
What if we just approached, looking official, and asked to see ID. If they reached for it, we could cut them off and explain their rights, then introduce some information about how to keep them. If they refused, we could tell them what the issues are and how to get involved.
I think this line might be good for getting some people involved - "The free state project is a movement to get 20,000 people who like making their own choices and having a little freedom to move to the same state to participate in state politics there..." at this point they roll their eyes and think 'I'm not moving!' "... Lucky for you, you're already in the right state!"
Good idea, also if you can talk to small business owners all across the state, and give them some kindof sign or flyer that didn't have anything on it that would grow old, to put up in their stores...then state senators and legistlators would see it as well as the general public.
Question - if Alaska's house got to veto a bill to bring the state in line with Real ID, why didn't NH even need a bill? Why should we need a law to force the DMV not to upgrade? Shouldn't the decision to upgrade and enact federal law lie with the general court?
actually the decision could lie with the people; certainly if enough folks were to descend on the place where the system were being put into place, that could stop it.
another idea might be to call all the people who are working on the switchover and urge each of them to sabotage its anti-privacy potential in some way from the inside. actually i guess one could just put that idea in a letter to editor.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 31, 2006, 09:01 PM NHFT
another idea might be to call all the people who are working on the switchover and urge each of them to sabotage it
Ahem... we're well before that becomes necessary.
We need to contact
exactly 5 people RIGHT NOW:http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3865.0
(the exec council meets next Thursday!!!)
Quote from: aries on May 31, 2006, 08:20 PM NHFT
Question - if Alaska's house got to veto a bill to bring the state in line with Real ID, why didn't NH even need a bill? Why should we need a law to force the DMV not to upgrade? Shouldn't the decision to upgrade and enact federal law lie with the general court?
That's something that's been confusing me about this whole thing too.
Ever since the anti-Real ID bill came into existance.
TRacy
Quote from: d_goddard on May 31, 2006, 06:55 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on May 31, 2006, 01:03 AM NHFT
I think this should be conducted as ambush theater.
...
How's that sound?
It's brilliant and would be powerfully effective in LA, London, New York, and maybe even Boston.
But please, don't try this in NH. It would go over like a Led Zeppelin.
They sold over 300 million albums... would that we could go over like Led Zeppelin! ;D
QuoteYou'd alienate way more people than you'd illuminate.
In my experience, people here seem to prefer the well-reasoned argument, or at least the well-oiled soundbite, to political theater or demonstrations.
First rule of effective communication: Know your audience.
Thanks for the reminder. I got caught up in the exercise without having experienced any of that Yankee sensibility firsthand.
Kevin
Quote from: d_goddard on May 31, 2006, 09:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 31, 2006, 09:01 PM NHFT
another idea might be to call all the people who are working on the switchover and urge each of them to sabotage it
Ahem... we're well before that becomes necessary.
We need to contact exactly 5 people RIGHT NOW:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3865.0
(the exec council meets next Thursday!!!)
I met Ray Burton the other day, I should have brought this up. I forgot he was a councilor.
Quote from: aries on June 01, 2006, 05:47 AM NHFT
I met Ray Burton the other day, I should have brought this up. I forgot he was a councilor.
First, please forgive me, but this is necessary.
This is my paddle-board.
Now, drop trou.
How could you forget?!?!?!
**
SMACK!!**
OK, that's over with.
Now call this guy up RIGHT NOW!!!
And then call at least 3 of his peers (http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3865.0) on the Exec Council
Spaulding is already 100% on our side, you can save your time there -- but the jury is still out on Wieczorek, Griffin, your pal Burton, and Pignatelli (Pignatelli is making the right noises but I haven't seen her say enough *PUBLICLY* yet)
I'm a tiny bit afraid that if there's too much "mainstream public" noise about the executive council's role, NH might be invaded by arm-twisting DC staffers again. In my fantasy dream world, the exec council refuses the money and shocks the crap out of everybody who never saw it coming, which includes DC jerkocrats who don't even know about the NH executive council... ;D
Pignatelli called me a week or two ago and talked my ear off about Real ID. I'll be very surprised (and appalled) if she flip-flops. My BS detector didn't go off once during the entire conversation, so I believe she's solidly with us and will work to convince the others. Spaulding emailed me and is 100%. Burton says he's leaning our way, but we definitely need to continue contacting Burton, Weiczorek, and Griffin. A 5-0 vote would be beautiful!
I have unfortunately learned to believe NOTHING until the fat lady sings.
I was there when the Senate Committee voted UNANIMOUSLY for HB1582, unaltered, telling the Feds to go blow it.
I listened over the stream when the very same Senators gutted the bill on the Senate floor.
I sat shocked when I saw the roll call vote ... these same Senators killed 1582, when they thought nobody was looking, by not even forming the study committee called for by the gutted HB1582.
Treachery and deceit.
For an elected official, giving your word is your most precious currency. Giving your word on where you stand on an issue is like posting a large IOU. Changing that stance is like defaulting on a debt. It's fine to say you haven't decided if you truly haven't. It's not fine to have made up your mind... and pull a backroom switcheroo.
Had fun delivering the lastest Keene Free Press in Manchester... you know the Real ID shafting edition.
Papers were provided to the 3 Senators and their neighbors.
Here we are visiting our buddy Andre Martel's house. :)
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: Roger Grant on June 01, 2006, 05:03 PM NHFT
Had fun delivering the lastest Keene Free Press in Manchester... you know the Real ID shafting edition.
Papers were provided to the 3 Senators and their neighbors.
I have a big grin and I'm tearing up a little... this is beautiful. Let 'em know, their skullduggery was NOT missed.
This is just like in that Richord Pryor movie "The Toy", when they printed up the incendiary newspaper... and the rich daddy had to track down every last copy and buy them up...
... but you can't buy up all the copies of KFP:
a) they're free
b) the can is open ... the worms are everywhere
c) it's on the Internet, baby 8)
Quote from: Roger Grant on June 01, 2006, 05:03 PM NHFT
Had fun delivering the lastest Keene Free Press in Manchester... you know the Real ID shafting edition.
Papers were provided to the 3 Senators and their neighbors.
Here we are visiting our buddy Andre Martel's house. :)
Wow, that is priceless!
Looks like Mr. Flip-Flop Martel needs to hire Porcupine Partners to do some yard work. >:D
It was great meeting you today, Roger.
Rob
Very cool. :)
Quote from: d_goddard on June 01, 2006, 02:40 PM NHFT
For an elected official, giving your word is your most precious currency.
I would say bowing to your party bosses is the most important thing for them.
Rocket man wrote:
<<I'm a tiny bit afraid that if there's too much "mainstream public" noise about the executive council's role, NH might be invaded by arm-twisting DC staffers again.>>
I think maybe the DC folks are already doing this, that's what I heard but can't remember where. Bradley and Gregg were the perpetrators, that was what I heard. I have not heard a lot about charlie bass in all this lately , so maybe he is not all that active in lobbying for "the Mark," or is doing so quietly.
If Debra P. is making all these calls against Real ID, and a Democrat, I suspect she will probably vote against taking the money.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on June 02, 2006, 08:01 AM NHFT
I think maybe the DC folks are already doing this, that's what I heard but can't remember where. Bradley and Gregg were the perpetrators, that was what I heard.
US Sen. Judd Gregg (NH) persuaded NH Sen. John Barnes to invite "staffers" from Gregg's office to come and meet with NH Senators.
Several of "our" people (most notably Joel and Amy) waited outside the office where these folks were meeting. They took our Senators in small groups and spoke to them behind closed doors, out of earshot. These staffers from DC left the building through a side door when they were done, presumably to avoid having to answer Joel's questions.
Y'all might be interested to see the exact points of contention where a Federal Real-ID would possibly conflict with the existing New Hampshire Privacy rules:
http://www.freestateblogs.net/realid_nh_license
Quote from: d_goddard on June 02, 2006, 10:28 AM NHFT
Y'all might be interested to see the exact points of contention where a Federal Real-ID would possibly conflict with the existing New Hampshire Privacy rules:
http://www.freestateblogs.net/realid_nh_license
That's a very professional lookoing blog. I had no idea FreeStateBlog's existed. Looks like their's a whole network of different free staters blogging their.
Tracy
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 02, 2006, 02:17 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on June 02, 2006, 10:28 AM NHFT
Y'all might be interested to see the exact points of contention where a Federal Real-ID would possibly conflict with the existing New Hampshire Privacy rules:
http://www.freestateblogs.net/realid_nh_license
That's a very professional lookoing blog. I had no idea FreeStateBlog's existed. Looks like their's a whole network of different free staters blogging their.
Tracy
Well done Denis... thanks for digesting this info...
First came the forums, Free Talk Live for radio, videos, then the Keene Free Press, now the Bloggers are the next wave. Could this be an information 'perfect storm' on the statist's horizon? Perhaps
Liberty's voice will be heard?
Didn't you know, goddard? Everytime a politition opens his mouth, he's lying!
Quote from: Mark Twain
Suppose you were an idiot. And suppose you were a member of Congress. But I repeat myself.
http://www.twainquotes.com/Congress.html
The executive council will probably not deal with the money until the finance committee takes it off the table.
So should we be lobbying the finance committee members to keep it on the table?
We can try but the make up of that committee is not in our favor.
Keep the pressure on the executive council, we need people especially in Burton's district (north country)
to be contacting him...we need them to see this is a citizens issue and not a free state project one as Gatsas is trying to convince them of.
Finance Committe Info and how they voted on 1583
Rep. King, Chairman voted to OTP :)
Senator Morse, Vice Chairman voted for study :(
Rep. Stone, Clerk did not vote :-\
Rep. Weyler voted ITL :-[
Rep. Wallner voted OTP :)
Rep. Eaton voted OTP :)
Senator Gatsas voted for study :(
Senator Green voted for study :(
Senator Barnes voted for study and introduced the amendment ??? >:(
Senator D'Allesandro did not vote :-\
total votes 3 :) 5 :( 2 :-\
Since they may or may not vote on the money on June 7th it is not likely to come before the executive council that day....however if they do vote for the money that day it would likely come before the executive council on June 21st
You forgot Rep. Peter Franklin. He voted OTP. Also, D'Allesandro was not present for the vote on HB 1582, but he did vote in favor of the amended SB399 (with the HB1582 lanuage). He's on our side.
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3756.msg67088#msg67088
Quote from: DadaOrwell on June 03, 2006, 08:00 AM NHFT
So should we be lobbying the finance committee members to keep it on the table?
I think it can't hurt.
I also think that the Republicans are about to kick us (again) right where it hurts.
I told Sen. Morse there are lots of things I can agree-to-disagree on - But this is not one of them!
He and his pals in our Republican controled state senate (in concert with our Republican congressional deligation) pulled the rug out from under us on this, and I for one am not going to forget that. Never.
Can those pricks win back any support from me? They are going to have to try realy hard. AND THEY BETTER START TODAY!
ya they are really proud of themselves right now, but we are not done not by a long shot
we need to canvas their towns all the small businesses and such and get the people of their communities to stop and think and then vote
if we can do that...they woun't be so full of themselves anymore will they >:D
Quote from: ravelkinbow on June 03, 2006, 09:53 PM NHFT
they are really proud of themselves right now
Well I have some pride to. Mine is not gained at the expence of the Liberty of others; I'm not some power-grabber. These power-puppets may think they are helping themselves by helping their handlers (puppet-masters) in/from DC, but they could lose NH.
If they loose NH, they will have noone to blame but themselves.
I have leaned
heavily generously towards the Republicans for as long as I have voted, but if this National ID comes to NH the game is over. I will never assume that any "republican" has any real principles.
I think I hear the sound of payment to Judas.
Are we about to be sold?
Quote from: John on June 03, 2006, 11:17 PM NHFT
I think I hear the sound of payment to Judas.
Are we about to be sold?
30 pieces of silver, $3,000,000 means $100,000 silver pieces..... 8)
JM
Quote from: jgmaynard on June 04, 2006, 10:03 AM NHFT
Quote from: John on June 03, 2006, 11:17 PM NHFT
I think I hear the sound of payment to Judas.
Are we about to be sold?
30 pieces of silver, $3,000,000 means $100,000 silver pieces..... 8)
JM
They were antique silver goblets
Oh, Silly me. I had not considered that high price.
We (the Republicans of the NH senate) hereby sell the citizens of New Hampshire (and their children & grandchildren) to the D.C. gang.
Quote from: John on June 03, 2006, 08:58 PM NHFT
the Republicans are about to kick us (again) right where it hurts.
There is a really simple, easy way to kick these turncoats in the nuts -- nix their chances of getting re-elected in their own party primary. That will send a clear, loud-as-hell message to the whole Senate, the we won't take this deception (http://www.freestateblogs.net/realDeceit)!
However, there is a
deadline is tomorrow, Wed., June 7th!
Irena changed her party affilication from "Independent" to "Republican" today; tomorrow she'll file to run for Delegate in the Primary.
Here are the details, they were posted by Dan McGuire to the RLC-NH list (and a few others, IIRC):
Quote
Delegates get to decide on their party's platform, bylaws and officers.
They are elected in the primary on September 12. They meet once for a
convention (the Republican convention will take place on September 30).
There are as many delegates as there are State Reps. All elected Delegates
AND all party candidates for State Rep, Senator, etc, go to the convention,
so potentially over 800 could show up, although practically, only about 500 do.
Here's how to get involved:
1. Make sure you are registered Republican or (horrors!) Democrat. This
must be done on this Monday or Tuesday at your town or city clerk's office.
2. On Wednesday morning, go back to the clerk's office and sign up for the
ballot. It costs $2 to register for State Rep. You can also submit a
petition with five local signatures and save the $2. Even if you sign up
for State Rep, you should also sign up for Delegate. That costs nothing.
Should you win both, someone else will get your Delegate spot, and you can
both go to the convention.
3. Participate in the drafting of your party's platform. See me or Peter
Bearse for putting in suggestions for the Republican platform.
Wouldn't you like to see the party platforms be more libertarian? Run for
Delegate! It's free, easy and requires almost no effort. You often won't
have a primary race.
Quote from: d_goddard on June 06, 2006, 05:13 PM NHFT
However, there is a deadline is tomorrow, Wed., June 7th!
Actually, thats when registration opens. The deadline is June 16th.
Quote from: d_goddard on June 06, 2006, 05:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: John on June 03, 2006, 08:58 PM NHFT
the Republicans are about to kick us (again) right where it hurts.
There is a really simple, easy way to kick these turncoats in the nuts -- nix their chances of getting re-elected in their own party primary. That will send a clear, loud-as-hell message to the whole Senate, the we won't take this deception (http://www.freestateblogs.net/realDeceit)!
However, there is a deadline is tomorrow, Wed., June 7th!
Irena changed her party affilication from "Independent" to "Republican" today; tomorrow she'll file to run for Delegate in the Primary.
Here are the details, they were posted by Dan McGuire to the RLC-NH list (and a few others, IIRC):
Quote
Delegates get to decide on their party's platform, bylaws and officers.
They are elected in the primary on September 12. They meet once for a
convention (the Republican convention will take place on September 30).
There are as many delegates as there are State Reps. All elected Delegates
AND all party candidates for State Rep, Senator, etc, go to the convention,
so potentially over 800 could show up, although practically, only about 500 do.
Here's how to get involved:
1. Make sure you are registered Republican or (horrors!) Democrat. This
must be done on this Monday or Tuesday at your town or city clerk's office.
2. On Wednesday morning, go back to the clerk's office and sign up for the
ballot. It costs $2 to register for State Rep. You can also submit a
petition with five local signatures and save the $2. Even if you sign up
for State Rep, you should also sign up for Delegate. That costs nothing.
Should you win both, someone else will get your Delegate spot, and you can
both go to the convention.
3. Participate in the drafting of your party's platform. See me or Peter
Bearse for putting in suggestions for the Republican platform.
Wouldn't you like to see the party platforms be more libertarian? Run for
Delegate! It's free, easy and requires almost no effort. You often won't
have a primary race.
Woo Hoo Irena !! That a Liberty Lady at work ;D
Ok, now what can we do to keep the heat on and let them know we have not forgotten.
I have some ideas but don't want to post them here, those that know me please feel free to contact me privately. There are way to many trolls about on the forum as of late and I don't want anyone getting info before WE want it released.
6 of us attended the Fiscal Committee (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/lba/fiscal.html) meeting this morning. The Federal $3million "sucker money" was the first agenda item.
Per request of Commissioner Flynn from the DMV, the grant is still tabled. As such, there was no vote (again).
The commissioner says the DMV is still in the process of getting bids from vendors that would use the money to implement Real-ID, and upgrade their computer systems.
As such, this will come up again at their next meeting, currently set for Tuesday July 11, 2006.
Only once it has passed the Fiscal Committee will it go to the Executive Council for approval. We fully expect that the Fiscal Committee will indeed vote to take the money (suckers!)
Now, according to this site (http://www.sos.nh.gov/g&c%20schedule.htm), the last Exec Council meeting is on Wednesday, June 21, 2006, ie, before the next Fiscal committee meeting. So , the question is, what happens if the Exec Council closes its session, before approving/disapproving all the relevant items?
It appears at this time that we have 2 Councilors (Spaulding and Pignatelli) who will definitely reject the money. A third, Burton, is on the fence. Burton is Councilor for the North country... and as luck would have it, a bunch of us Porcupines are going to be up North for PorcFest (http://porcfest.com) June 23 - July 1! I have the action item to organize a "field trip" to local towns during that week (probably on Thursday June 29) to pass out "No Federal ID" flyers. This will be a nice opportunity for neophyte activists to get their feet wet in the Free State :D
Thanks for the update, Denis!
Where I come from, they call people like Gatsas and his club of Neo-Con Republican Kool-Aid drinkers "Useful Idiots".
Do they really understand what they are doing?
It's quite possible that they've been promised a life of wealth and privilege in the future North American Global Territory which will include Canada, the U.S. and Mexico. It will be a egregious, totalitarian power orgy for the globalists... IF we let them succeed. :icon_pirat:
just got this news to the FTL word . . . called for more folks to come to NH and support this resistance to this D.C. intrution on our LIBERTY . . .
Nice John :)
I was kind of saying that local pols need help holding on to the native NH culture - of Liberty.
If you are reading this and are not here yet: PLEASE COME HOME.
Well I get to visit home for a couple of weeks real soon.
Pat we need to find you a job up here.
A job is not a problem. I will sell Oranges on the side of the road if I have too when the time comes.
I just have another promise to keep first.
Quote from: Pat K on June 07, 2006, 09:06 PM NHFT
I will sell Oranges on the side of the road if I have to when the time comes.
Great because that is one of the things I miss about LA. ;)
Well if you come to buy Oranges off me I could jump up and down, the Earth will shake and you will feel just like you were in LA.
Quote from: Pat K on June 07, 2006, 09:15 PM NHFT
Well if you come to buy Oranges off me I could jump up and down, the Earth will shake and you will feel just like you were in LA.
So you are going to take jobs that other imigrants won't do?
I don't think any of the imagrants weigh enough, so I will have to take up the slack.
Here is a link to send to folks (if you have not sent it, send it today):
Ask them to take about 8 min. of their time to here our plea:
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=8307405023976923577
As I told Sen. Morse, there are many things I can agree-to-disagree on: This is not one of them.
Senator Gatsas, just to provide confirmation of what we've been saying
all along, Jim Harper of the Cato Institute (who came here to NH to
support HB1582, testifying in favor of the bill) has now publically
shown that flying without ID is not only possible, it's actually
faster than _with_ ID.
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71115-0.html
Please feel free to share this with your colleagues. While it might
be too late for this year, rest assured, the fight against REAL ID is
far from over, so we'll remind you of this next year when the spectre
of 'You'll need Passports to Fly' is raised as opposition...
Perhaps, in the interest of our NH citizens moving thru the TSA lines
more rapidly, we should encourage people to 'live free and fly without
ID' Note that the TSA agent in charge accepted Jim's excuse of "I
mailed my driver's license home"... Perhaps in the future, the reason
"I live in New Hampshire" will also be sufficent to speed thru lines
with a quicker secondary search instead.
Nice Russell...very nice! Now a note: I received an email with a complete list of senators just before the vote. I emailed each one of them...only one was 'undeliverable'. If that list and notice to contact NH senators was from FSP or a participant...I'd like to get one when the occasion calls for it. As we all know, they ignored the people...but even if I'm not in NH...I will be one day and I may as well get my name in front of their face NOW!
I've ridden a cruise ship to foreign territories without ID, this was when I was 16.
My mother didn't have any either, my father only did because he drove the rental car.
Quote from: russellkanning on June 09, 2006, 07:53 PM NHFT
Note that the TSA agent in charge accepted Jim's excuse of "I
mailed my driver's license home"... Perhaps in the future, the reason
"I live in New Hampshire" will also be sufficent to speed thru lines
with a quicker secondary search instead.
I wonder if "I live in South Dakota" worked in response to a demand for a driver's license before 1953? (SD was the last state to require DLs.)
Kevin
Just heard back from Concilor Griffin.
. . . "Rest assured that I am against, not in favor, of Real ID." . . .
Quote from: russellkanning on June 09, 2006, 07:53 PM NHFT
Senator Gatsas, just to provide confirmation of what we've been saying
...
Is that wording your original, Russ? Or is there an attribution?
Quote from: John on June 10, 2006, 05:11 AM NHFT
Just heard back from Concilor Griffin.
. . . "Rest assured that I am against, not in favor, of Real ID." . . .
8)
I hope he is aware that we are prickly about remembering who said what to our faces... and matching it up against how people vote!
Quote from: John on June 10, 2006, 05:11 AM NHFT
Just heard back from Concilor Griffin.
. . . "Rest assured that I am against, not in favor, of Real ID." . . .
I really hope she votes that way.
We should try to get EVERY politician who is running this coming Election and ask their stance on it.
Get it in writing or on camera.
Then we can see who breaks their promise.
Quote from: AmerTownCrier on June 09, 2006, 09:39 PM NHFT
Nice Russell...very nice! Now a note: I received an email with a complete list of senators just before the vote. I emailed each one of them...only one was 'undeliverable'. If that list and notice to contact NH senators was from FSP or a participant...I'd like to get one when the occasion calls for it. As we all know, they ignored the people...but even if I'm not in NH...I will be one day and I may as well get my name in front of their face NOW!
This list of senators will be up-to-date with any changes.
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/senate/senatemembers.html
As will this list of reps (limited to "members with e-mail" - currently 343)
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/house/members/email.asp
Quote from: d_goddard on June 10, 2006, 06:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on June 09, 2006, 07:53 PM NHFT
Senator Gatsas, just to provide confirmation of what we've been saying
...
This is from Seth .... I forgot to tell you.
Is that wording your original, Russ? Or is there an attribution?
sending this to eaton, may send modified versions to the councilors.
---
Senator if you voted against the "Real ID Resistance Bill" out of fear that the feds might not let us on planes...
You should read the article below from Wired magazine. It disproves, for the second time, the Federal threats that Gatsas and Sweeny were trying to pass along. It proves Granite Staters can fly without ID nationwide and thus are not endangered by a refusal to go along with DC.
But what I'd really like to see proven, is that you have some degree of courage, some commitment to the little people who you claim to represent. Instead all I see is you voting to let us be branded and tracked like inventory, our dearest personal information splattered across thousands of bureaucrat desktops, our identities stolen more and more frequently.
Dave Ridley
Keene
Here's the article:
http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71115-0.html
The Great No-ID Airport Challenge
SAN FRANCISCO -- Jim Harper left his hotel early Thursday at 5:30 a.m. to give himself more than two hours to clear security at San Francisco International Airport. It wasn't that he was worried the security line would be long, but because he accepted a dare from civil liberties rabble-rouser John Gilmore to test whether he could actually fly without showing identification.
Gilmore issued the challenge at Wednesday's meeting of the Department of Homeland Security's privacy advisory committee <http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0865.xml> in San Francisco, which otherwise lacked much in the way of controversy. An entrepreneur and co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation, Gilmore recently lost a court battle <http://www.ktvu.com/news/6473925/detail.html> seeking to unmask the government's secret regulations asking passengers to show identification when flying, and to have those rules declared unconstitutional.
Scolding the DHS committee for dithering over small matters, Gilmore <http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,69774,00.html> said that it should be investigating the National Security Agency's eavesdropping program and that the committee's real job was to "protect the homeland from mean-spirited officials."
Gilmore then dared committee members to place their driver's licenses in the envelopes he had passed out, mail them to their home addresses and then attempt to fly home without identification.
While signs in the airport and on the Transportation Security Administration website <http://www.tsa.gov/public/interapp/editorial/editorial_1254.xml> insist that showing ID is mandatory, the official policy, as revealed by the judges' decision <http://papersplease.org/gilmore/_dl/GilmoreDecision.pdf> (.pdf) in Gilmore's case, is that "airline passengers either present identification or be subjected to a more extensive search." But Gilmore said that's not what really happens in an airport when one refuses to provide identification.
"You will find out what the real rules are," Gilmore said. "Are you afraid to? You have good reason."
Gilmore referred to his own experience when Southwest Airlines refused to let him fly in 2002 without identification, and a recent blog post <http://hasbrouck.org/blog/archives/001065.html> by travel expert Edward Hasbrouck, chronicling his near-arrest for trying to figure out if the person checking identification at Washington Dulles International Airport was an airline or federal employee.
At the meeting's close, Harper, a committee member, said he'd take the challenge so long as he could hand his envelope to a reporter who accompanied him to the airport. He also challenged the other members to join him.
"We have influence," Harper said. "I challenge my colleagues to believe in the law."
None of the other committee members volunteered, but the committee's chair, former director of consumer protection for the Federal Trade Commission Howard Beales gave Harper a tongue-in-cheek blessing.
"I wish Jim the best and hope to see you in the future," Beales said.
At 6 a.m. the next morning, Harper handed this reporter a green, self-addressed stamped envelope and entered the checkpoint line, which even at that early hour was filled with travelers facing a 20-minute crawl to the magnetometers.
Harper told the identification checker he had no ID, and the attendant quickly wrote "No ID" with a red marker on his ticket and shunted him off to an extra screening line -- generously allowing him to bypass the longer queue of card-carrying passengers.
There Harper was directed into the belly of a General Electric EntryScan puffer machine <http://www.geindustrial.com/ge-interlogix/iontrack/prod_entryscan.html> that shot bits of air at his suit in order to see if he had been handling explosives.
TSA employees wearing baby blue surgical gloves then swiped his Sidekick and his laptop for traces of explosives and searched through his carry-on, while a supervisor took his ticket, conferred with other employees and made a phone call.
Meanwhile, a TSA employee approached this reporter, who was watching the search through Plexiglas, and said, "It's pretty awkward you are standing here taking notes," but he did not ask for identification or call for a halt to the note-taking.
The TSA supervisor returned from her phone call and asked Harper why he didn't have identification and to where he was traveling. But she was satisfied enough with his answer -- that he had mailed his driver's license home to Washington D.C. -- that she allowed him to pass.
At 6:30 a.m., standing 50 yards away on the other side of the glass screen, Harper phoned to say he now had two hours to kill, having gotten through screening perhaps even faster than he would have if he'd shown ID. He guessed he was able to get through without much hassle by being polite and dressing well.
Why did he take the challenge?
"Part of it was my concern with the growing use of identification checks to control access to society, such as buildings, stadiums and air travel," Harper said, referring to issues that are central to his recently published book called Identity Crisis <http://www.catostore.org/index.asp?fa=ProductDetails&pid=1441306>.
And will he do it again?
"Yeah, I'm inclined to do it more and more and hopefully more people will follow my lead and it will become a clear option to not show government ID to fly," Harper said. "My identity has nothing to do with the real risk.
"In fact, today, I'm the safest guy on the plane."</P
Got this from Executive Councilor Spaulding the other day
>
>David
> Thank you for your recent comments concerning the "Real ID" program. I am very much opposed to this program and I will strongly oppose having the Executive Council accept any federal funds for its implementation in New Hampshire.
>
> We have enough problems with our present system of orderly processing of drivers licenses without this added encumbrance. In any event, the "Real ID" concept is a bad program for the federal government to be requiring the states to implement. We do not need a national ID and we certainly don't want Homeland Security or the Division of Motor Vehicles to implement it. The federal government can find better uses for their three million dollars.
>
> Thank you for contacting me on this important issue.
>
> Cordially,
>
> Peter J. Spaulding
>
And my response:
Nice. Thank you Councilor.
I'm passing this along to the NHfree.com forums, where the next demonstrations are being organized. Those of us there are counting on you to resist the Federal pressure that is likely to come down on you, but I realize it won't be easy. If there's anything we can do to help you fight 'em off, let me know. We'd also welcome the names of any Federal officials who are giving you grief or trying to sway your vote. That way we can at least shine some light on 'em. They hate light.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on June 10, 2006, 09:34 PM NHFT
But what I'd really like to see proven, is that you have some degree of courage, some commitment to the little people who you claim to represent. Instead all I see is you voting to let us be branded and tracked like inventory, our dearest personal information splattered across thousands of bureaucrat desktops, our identities stolen more and more frequently.
:clapping:
So that's great - It means 4 out of 5 say they will vote with us? If that is true, that kills the program here! 8)
JM
4 out of 5 agreeing with us delays the program until the Feds do more arm-twisting, or offer us more money.
We're not safe until a bill is passed with language not too different from the original HB1582.
It delays it untill the next Executive council ellection anyway.
ANybody contacting Govern Lynch about opposing it as well?
Tracy
Quote from: d_goddard on June 13, 2006, 12:34 PM NHFT
4 out of 5 agreeing with us delays the program until the Feds do more arm-twisting, or offer us more money.
We're not safe until a bill is passed with language not too different from the original HB1582.
It's an election year. Get out the Libertarian vote, and make sure your ultraconservative friends stay home that day, and we'll have better chances the next time around.
We're sure to have more FSPers in The General Court (I've entered my name... although there are a bunch of problems with that right now, namely me not being listed), mostly in the house, but that's a good thing.
Quote from: KBCraig on June 10, 2006, 02:34 AM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on June 09, 2006, 07:53 PM NHFT
Note that the TSA agent in charge accepted Jim's excuse of "I
mailed my driver's license home"... Perhaps in the future, the reason
"I live in New Hampshire" will also be sufficent to speed thru lines
with a quicker secondary search instead.
I wonder if "I live in South Dakota" worked in response to a demand for a driver's license before 1953? (SD was the last state to require DLs.)
Kevin
I can only assume that state laws would determine if an out-of-stater would be allowed to drive in that state on their state license, and whether that state recognized SD drivers as not needing licenses to operate in that state.
It is still within the state power of NH to refuse MA drivers the right to drive in NH... oh what a wonderful world that would be.
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 13, 2006, 02:47 PM NHFT
It delays it untill the next Executive council ellection anyway.
ANybody contacting Govern Lynch about opposing it as well?
Tracy
Lynch has already come out publically against national ID in all the major media.
Quote from: ravelkinbow on June 14, 2006, 06:45 AM NHFT
Lynch has already come out publically against national ID in all the major media.
Which is real nice, but it's best to use every defence we have, in order.
I'd rather not have the money go to Lynch to have the opportunity to sign in the first place!
Quote from: d_goddard on June 14, 2006, 11:59 AM NHFT
I'd rather not have the money go to Lynch to have the opportunity to sign in the first place!
And that is EXACTLY what a vote-down in the Exec Council will accomplish. ;D
JM
Called Eaton's Senate office today, left this message for his secretary to write down:
"Please do not accept the Real ID money"
plus my name/town/contact info
http://www.securelicense.org/site/PageServer?pagename=newhampshirepr
securelicense.org is full of pro REAL ID propaganda ::)
Quote from: NC2NH on June 19, 2006, 09:40 PM NHFT
http://www.securelicense.org/site/PageServer?pagename=newhampshirepr
securelicense.org is full of pro REAL ID propaganda ::)
According to them NH has a "low risk" because we don't give licenses to "terrorists"
A license is not a god damned national free-for-all card. It doesn't entitle the holder to commit crimes, enter secure areas or do much of anything other than operate a vehicle and purchase age-controlled substances. A non-driver ID card is as easy to get as filling out a form and then... getting it. That does as much as a license yet requires no driving skill either.
Why can't these neocons get this through their thick, thick heads! A piece of plastic does not make it easier to commit "acts of terrorism!"
Quote from: aries on June 20, 2006, 05:44 AM NHFTWhy can't these neocons get this through their thick, thick heads!
Well, because they are neocons.
After reading the KFP newspaper with the pic of barnes on the front....and the article about his role...
I got angry enough to give him a call at home yesterday. Just left a polite message telling him I'd seen his quote in the KFP and asking if he had really said that stuff about being glad they were taking our rights away.
He called me back and left a message; eventually we did talk for about 20 minutes. He didn't deny saying it and told me basically "if I did say that, it was a pretty stupid thing to say"
It was a cordial conversation, but I felt I had to interrupt him some whenever he would admit a concern with Real ID. i.e. if you're so concerned why didn't you stop it? He said that he hopes the state does not take the money and at least spends some time looking this over before doing so. Of course I had to interrupt that too.
He was speaking almost like an inmate who was recounting a crime and regretted committing it. He indicated he would like to try to make good with us in some fashion on this issue after the next election if he survives with his seat intact. Of course, NH will also have to survive his vote by refusing to take the money between now and then. by 2007 the state government may have already taken the money.
He said he was going to have to go through airport security again at some point and was glad the security folks were checking him even though he didn't like some aspects of the screening. I said the folks who are checking us are the same people who made 911 possible by dissallowing pilot-carried weapons.
He mentioned that a lot of the "libertarian part of the state" was angry with him and that he was getting a lot of emails. Seems to appreciate calls more than emails and seemed glad of mine. Said he would remember the conversation and that, again, I should call him again if he survives the election fight and work up some kind of solution, indicated he would like to do such a thing. I told him I would likely hold him to that promise.
I said that if there was some unknown factor making it difficult for him to vote in favor of this particular bill, then please at least do something "easy" to fight real ID.
He mentioned Don (I assume Don Gorman) getting on his case for meeting with the Feds behind closed doors , alghough I don't reember if he admitted the doors were closed. He denied showing any Congressional staffers out a back door. He said he was not aware of the Keene Free Press article about him with the picture/quote.
He asked if I was with an organization and I said the organization i am most closely associated with is NHfree.com, the state's most active or second most active forum depending on how we are doing that week against the Herad's forum. He said is that the libertarian party? And I said there are a lot of libertarians there.
He indicated he did not hear back from Bradly or Bass about real ID when he contacted their offices to get an opinion.
He seemed knowlegable about what had been going on with Real ID over the last couple months, or at least he seemed to know about as much as we do.
I thanked him for his service in the Korean War, his accessibility and his vote agains the smoke ban and don't remember what he said, but he was appreiciative of the appreciation...and that was more or less the end of the call.
Good man Dada. 8)
Karma
My opinion is that Barnes invited the feds (in his words: I'll need to talk with our congrestional deligation) to fight against HR 1582 with his comments/questions in committee . . .
Barnes is the one who promoted/started the BS about the "Family of 5" going to Disney World" etc, etc, . . .& the $500 passport, etc., etc. BS.
He is the one who threw the door wide-open for the fed-boys to come up to Concord. I will not forget what he did!
Barnes was the front-man to kill 1582! And his BS worked (for now.)
That BS must not stand.
Dada, you are a Jedi Master.
As far as Barnes goes, it's simple:
* If any other Republican shows up in the primaries, as long as he's not an avowed in-yer-face neocon, he has my support
* If Barnes gets the Republican ticket, it depends on how Socialist the opposing Democrat is
Holding Barnes' feet to the fire is good.
But burning ourselves to spite him will get us nowhere (or worse, will get us a Mass-style Senator, which we damn well don't need)
And yes, I am discounting voting Libertarian for anyone except in races small enough (local and maybe House Rep) where I know my Libertarian vote has a decent realistic shot at getting my preferred party affilicate elected.
Guns and dope,
-Denis
My conscience would never allow me to vote for a guy like Barnes under any circumstances. If no candidate in an election is worthy of my vote, I abstain or write somebody in.
Sorry Denis, but I say people who vote for Barnes deserve what they get, i.e. to be represented by an avowed statist who admits he is glad government is taking more and more of our freedoms.
As a handy example, I wonder how it feels to have voted to reelect our current president... in retrospect, can socialist Kerry have been any worse than socialist Bush? I voted for Badnarik and at least went to bed knowing my vote could never have been construed as a vote in favor of U.S. imperialism, Drug Prohibition, unbridled executive power, and/or the welfare state.
John wrote:
<<My opinion is that Barnes invited the feds >>
Ya he pretty much admitted that to me. He was telling me which Fed legislators got back to him and which didn't. Apparently Bass and Bradly and Sununu didn't really weigh in much with Barnes, good for them...if what he's saying is true. Gregg was apparently the main culprit.
I did give him grief for bringing the feds into it.
He didn't really stand up for his position or vote at all during the call.
So, speaking of Jedi, remember that scene where Qui-Gon Jinn says:
"There is more going on here than meets the eye. I sense an unusual amount of fear for something as trivial as this trade dispute."
There really is probably something going on here that we are not seeing.
Quote from: Rocketman on June 22, 2006, 04:03 PM NHFT
Sorry Denis, but I say people who vote for Barnes deserve what they get, i.e. to be represented by an avowed statist who admits he is glad government is taking more and more of our freedoms.
:clapping: :clapping:
We don't deserve the government they get though >:(
Tracy
I've been thinking of consistently voting "none of the above" or more specifically "NOTA" in cases like this. Could we possibly get double digits for such a write-in? Should we push for a state law that NOTA be on every ballot and no candidate holds office if NOTA wins?
Hmm that is a great thought.
I wonder how we would do this.
Maybe it would have to go through the house and senate..... which of course prob don't want it.
Quote from: toowm on June 27, 2006, 08:14 AM NHFT
I've been thinking of consistently voting "none of the above" or more specifically "NOTA" in cases like this. Could we possibly get double digits for such a write-in? Should we push for a state law that NOTA be on every ballot and no candidate holds office if NOTA wins?
I'm not aware of a case when mainstream politicians actually supported putting NOTA on ballots, but it sounds like a great reform to me. Unfortunately, we would probably have to elect a free state majority to the NH house and senate before we could pass it.
Politicians aren't all stupid. Many of them understand that their power depends on upholding the illusion of public support. An illusion NOTA would likely destroy...
Sending this to my exec councilor
---
Dear Councilor Pignatelli:
Back in May you informed me by phone of your discomfort with the Federal Real ID Act and of the likelihood that you would vote to reject the $3 million "Real ID Bribe" if it comes before the Council.
I wanted to express my continued strong hope that you will maintain this disposition, or strengthen it, as the time of decision draws closer.
Have you reached a point yet where you are ready to commit to your constituents that you will not, under any circumstances, vote to accept this money? Are you ready to promise that you never help to place New Hampshire under the thrall of this "Constitutionally challenged" system?
(sig)
8)
We do need to make a new push for this as the pawns move the piece in the Fiscal Committee!
I say call all 5 in the Exec Council, why take half-measures?
Their contact info is copllaed in this thread:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=3865.0
Arright I've re-contacted all 5 now by e-mail. I should probably make some calls too.
Guys they are counting on us losing steam; we have to keep our energy level up on this.
Quote from: Rocketman on June 27, 2006, 10:39 AM NHFT
I'm not aware of a case when mainstream politicians actually supported putting NOTA on ballots, but it sounds like a great reform to me. Unfortunately, we would probably have to elect a free state majority to the NH house and senate before we could pass it.
In which case we wouldn't need it because w/in two years we'll have removed 90% of the existing government structure as it is w/in New Hampshire.
TRacy
Quote from: DadaOrwell on July 03, 2006, 07:17 PM NHFT. . . we have to keep our energy level up on this.
We must keep trying.
As I said to Sen. Morse,
"There are many things we can agree-to-disagree on: This is not one of them!"If these Republicans force this down our throats, they will have lost the "limited government" argument - forever.
Called a few churches in concord and left voice mails about this issue. No response.
Churches... well, pick your targets carefully.
I don't know if I posted this earlier, but I had a USELESS long conversation with the "Watchtower" people, the Jehova's Witnesses. They came to my door about 2 days after the Real-ID rally so I decided what the hell, explain the situation to them. I told them, "if this is what you believe, that the devil has actually come and numbered the populace... would you not just call one of these 5 people RIGHT NOW from my phone, and simply say, you think it's not a Good Thing?"
Their answer ... absolutely "no". They will not "get involved in politics". It does not matter how trivially. These pathetic, sorry, people hoping to be saved and unwilling to lift a finger to do it ... except for recruiting more people to share their tagic vision of a world being damned. How twisted. ::)
</RANT>
Don't knock the Non-political people too much.
Those are the type of people this country ultimately needs to have after the government gets completely demolished.
Thank them for their non-politicalism and hope that in time everybody become that way so much that the system fades into invisibility.
Tracy
Bullsh--. They wasted two hours of my time. Shame on me for working so hard on a low-return endeavor.
I don't have that kind of time to waste!
Quote from: d_goddard on July 09, 2006, 02:53 AM NHFT
Bullsh--. They wasted two hours of my time. Shame on me for working so hard on a low-return endeavor.
I don't have that kind of time to waste!
Denis, you failed to recognize that the JW's believe that everyone who can be saved, has already been saved (the "144,000"). You're correct that they are fatalistic. They believe that the best any of us can hope for is eternal physical life on Earth, not the reward of Heaven and eternity in God's presence.
Personally, I don't suffer pseudo-Christian missionaries at my door. Scripture says that he who receives the heretic shares in his sin (cite provided later, if requested). I'm not rude with them, but I don't waste their time, nor let them waste mine.
Kevin
Quote from: d_goddard on July 09, 2006, 02:53 AM NHFT
Bullsh--. They wasted two hours of my time. Shame on me for working so hard on a low-return endeavor.
I don't have that kind of time to waste!
I won't argue with you there. I agree with Kevin.
Tracy
There are some good things about the Witnesses. According to privacy guru J.J. Luna the best way to secure your personal data from theft by a maid or janitor service is to call your local Kingdom Hall and hire someone from it as your maid or janitor. He says they all so fervently believe their Creator is watching them, they have the best track record of any religious organization in this regard. He says they make up some huge percentage of the janitor services in the U.S.
I guess they must not let just anyone be a Witness. I think they are kinda outside the system in other ways too, but I don't know.
It's better to reserve our scorn for people who are actually hurting us rather than those who failing to do what we think they should. The right to do nothing may be one of the most important rights a human has, and doing nothing to help or harm you is an improvement on what your average neighbor is doing.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on July 09, 2006, 02:34 PM NHFT
The right to do nothing may be one of the most important rights a human has, and it is an improvement on what your average neighbor is doing.
You're always so much more elequent then I am Dada.
(Not that that's saying much.) ;)
TRacy
Got a call on July 10 from Exec Councilor Pignatelli (pronounced ping nuh TELL ee), committing to vote against real id fund acceptance. She said she has heard from a lot of people on this. She said a few were in favor of real ID. She said she asked fed Senator Biden for advice and he said take the money. She also said that commissioner Flynn from the Dept. of safety sent her some kind of info packet, presumably favoring real id.
She seemed to be under the impression that the other councilors are with her, but she indicated uncertainty as to what would happen "if they were contacted by their Senator", meaning I assume Judd Gregg.
Oh also she siad that the governor must first put this issue on the agenda before the council can even vote to accept. So if anyone talks the governer into keeping this off the agenda, it will not even come up for a vote, and the money will not get accepted for the moment.
Please do as I have done and give the governor a call if you haven't, and urge him to keep the state from accepting this real ID money. you can leave a voice msg after hours and, again , his number is
271 2121
thanks for the kind words tracy!
http://www.sentinelsource.com/main.asp?SectionID=43&SubSectionID=105&ArticleID=113748
Great editorial. Thanks for the link. 8)
heres the full text. Nice to see the sentinel on board with two freedom causes even if they sound defeatest about one of them.
---
Live free or drive
Thanks to the New Hampshire Legislature, it will soon be considerably easier to get married here than to get a driver?s license.
The state had already done away with blood tests and residence requirements. People from anywhere can just walk in and get a marriage license from any town or city clerk they please. Now, they can proceed immediately to the preacher or whomever. As of July 4, there?s no more required three-day waiting period during which engaged people were supposed to think things over and read the brochures about fetal alcohol, family planning and AIDS.
The newly relaxed procedure is a tourism measure. Apparently, now that the Old Man of the Mountain is gone, people have been deciding that getting married would be a fun thing to do on vacation. But the three-day delay got in the way. Now no problem.
There are still a few requirements and limitations. You have to fill out an application, however rushed you may be. You have to show some sort of photo ID and tell the clerk your Social Security number. You have to prove you?re 18 or older (otherwise you need parental consent or a waiver). You have to prove death or divorce has separated you from any previous spouses you mention on the form. You are not permitted to marry a person of the same sex in New Hampshire. And you are not supposed to marry your brother, sister, cousin or other close relative. That should be easy enough for most people. If you get an early start, you could be married by lunch.
By way of contrast, wait until you try to get or renew a driver?s license in New Hampshire after next year. Beginning in 2008, the state will first have to verify your birth certificate, your Social Security number and any other identity or immigration documents you are required to present. So you may save three days getting married, but you?ll probably have to wait a week or more before you get a driver?s license ? if you get one at all.
Then all the information collected about you, complete with a digital photograph, will go into a national computer database. Can?t be too careful.
This is all thanks to the U.S. Congress and the New Hampshire Senate ? which voted earlier this year to subject Granite Staters to this inquisition.
The New Hampshire marriage license fee is $45. A driver?s license costs $50. We shudder to think of what the price will be after the Division of Motor Vehicles hires the legions of people it will need to turn Live Free or Die into folklore.
Next step. Abolish Marriage Licensing.
TRacy
Quote from: tracysaboe on July 13, 2006, 10:10 PM NHFT
Next step. Abolish Marriage Licensing.
Tracy, you have officially scared the shit out of me.
You are being completely realistic. I agree 100%.
I need a(nother) drink. :occasion14:
http://unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Candidates+express+concern+over+federal+ID+requirements&articleId=ae43631d-1272-4933-968a-b543112e38b6
Hey all, I'm a new resident of NH, and new to this forum.
I'm currently active in fighting Real ID in NH. I've posted contact info of all the budget officers and executive coucilors elsewhere in this sight and in the editorial sections of local news papers. I refuse to give up this battle and am excited to see others involved in this. Is anyone here planning to goto the next budget meeting? I would like to go check it out next month.
Quote from: mr.apathy on July 20, 2006, 10:45 AM NHFT
Hey all, I'm a new resident of NH, and new to this forum.
Welcome!!!
have you signed the pledge?
www.pledgebank.com/first1000
I heard about it a couple nights ago. I've been thinking about pledging. I already am politically active in the state, but I'm unsure. All the people I've met involved in it are Libertarians. Im just a hardcore Independant that loves this country but hates what it has become. Does my politacal allegiance matter?
Quote from: mr.apathy on July 20, 2006, 11:04 AM NHFT
I heard about it a couple nights ago. I've been thinking about pledging. I already am politically active in the state, but I'm unsure. All the people I've met involved in it are Libertarians. Im just a hardcore Independant that loves this country but hates what it has become. Does my politacal allegiance matter?
Yes, it needs to be pro-freedom ;D
The majority of FSP members are no Libertarians. Likewise, the majority of freedom activists in NH are not Libertarians.
You can be a pro-freedom independant.
Or you can be a Free Marketeer! ;D
Welcome to the forum. You'll find that we're all happy to work along side of you on any issues you're pro-freedom on, and you'll find yourself opposed on any issues you are anti-freedom on.
Sounds good, I guess my wife and I are in. Thanks for the welcome.
You'll find that Liberty is infectious... ;D
Quote from: mr.apathy on July 20, 2006, 11:28 AM NHFT
Sounds good, I guess my wife and I are in. Thanks for the welcome.
Cool you and your wife can sign separately.
I am not LP.. .I am independent. But as Ian said... Liberty is infectious.
Welcome, Mister A.!
The political affiliations here are varied, and often fleeting. I call myself a small-l libertarian, generally leaning GOP due to the limited choices on the ballot. I have no quarrel with the "small-l" types who lean Democrat, nor the Big-L Libertarians, nor with the outright anarchists. So long as you support Freedom and Liberty, you're on my side!
Kevin
sending this to sen. barnes
Dear Senator Barnes:
Just wanted to drop you quick (if belated) note to thank you again for calling me back about my Real ID concerns last month. I am thrilled to see that the Finance Committee has continued to table the 3 million dollar sucker money Washington wants to throw our way. I'm am also glad that, as best I can tell, you have not recently gone out of your way to further support real ID...at least not since your (unspeakably regrettable) moves to neuter the Real ID Resistance Bill.
I appreciated your offer to "do something to make it right" with the pro-liberty community next year and will likely hold you to it! If you survive politically, that is.
The fight against Real ID is probably years away from being over and we will soldier on against this abomination for as long as we have breath. We could use your help, and as you have witnessed, we are increasingly capable of turning out a lot of demonstrators to support politicians who fight against Real ID.
To paraphrase one of history's more colorful freedom fighters:
Though large tracts of America, and many old and famous freedoms, have fallen or may fall into the grip of the Homeland Security Department and all the odious apparatus of authoritarian rule, we shall not flag or fail. We shall go on to the end, peaceably but ever growing in activity and resolve. In this manner, we shall fight in New Hampshire, we shall fight on the sidewalks and streetcorners, we shall fight with growing confidence and strength on the airwaves.
We shall defend our Island of freedom, whatever the cost may be; we shall fight in the papers; we shall fight in the Legislature. We shall fight in the offices of our rulers and on their phone lines; we shall never surrender. And even if this state or a large part of it were subjected and under the thrall of a surveillance regime, her core resisters, armed and guarded by the simple principles of liberty, would carry on the struggle until, until, in God's good time, a new generation, with all the power and might of youth, steps forth to the rescue and liberation of the old.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on July 21, 2006, 06:19 AM NHFT
Dear Senator Barnes:
I am also glad that, as best I can tell, you have not recently gone out of your way to further support real ID...at least not since your (unspeakably regrettable) moves to neuter the Real ID Resistance Bill.
:D
:clapping:
Another state balks at the cost and in conveniece of Real ID:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/24/MNGIHK4CT01.DTL
Post your Real ID articles to this thread. I have been remiss but have seen at least 3 or 4 other states worried about it.
Long waits looming for license renewals
DMV officials fear new federal ID rules will lengthen lines
Lynda Gledhill, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Monday, July 24, 2006
(07-24) 04:00 PDT Sacramento -- Starting in 2008, all 22 million licensed California drivers will be required to go in person to a DMV office and prove their identity and address with three different documents before getting a new, federally approved state license.
The sheer size and scope of that task -- required by a federal law passed in the wake of Sept. 11 -- already has the state Department of Motor Vehicles worried about lines that would make current complaints about the agency's notoriously slow service seem trivial.
The new identification cards will be required in order to fly on airplanes and enter federal buildings.
Implementing the Real ID Act in California is likely to be complicated by the prolonged effort in the state to grant undocumented workers the right to obtain a driver's license.
The Real ID Act requires every state to issue driver's licenses that comply with a national standard. The goal is to prevent fraud and make sure people applying for licenses are who they say they are and do not pose security risks. The perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks had valid licenses, which allowed them to board airplanes.
"It's clear that this is an anti-terrorism policy, but it has a tremendous impact on driver's licenses," said Bill Cather, legislative director for the
DMV.
The budget signed into law June 30 by Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger contains $18.8 million for 36 positions to begin planning for the federal law.
While some initial planning can get started, California and the rest of the states are waiting for the federal government to issue the rules that will explain in detail how the Real ID Act is supposed to be put in place. Those rules are expected by the end of the year, and states have until May 2008 to get ready to issue the new licenses.
States may simply be unable to make that deadline, said Jason King, a spokesman for the American Association of Motor Vehicle Administrators.
"Without the necessary funding and rules, there is no way the states can fulfill the requirements of the Real ID Act by the deadline specified," King said.
To date, no federal money has been allocated to help states prepare for the new policies.
Real ID will change every facet of a license, although exactly how won't be known until the federal regulations come out. But states are already wondering how to deal with situations such as a license that will not allow initials.
In a lot of ways, California is in good shape compared with some other states. For example, it already requires photos -- not all states do. Its licenses expire every five years, the same length of time states will be given to fully implement the Real ID Act. Some states allow people to hold a license for eight years, meaning those states will have to get drivers into their offices before their licenses expire.
But California does have a major disadvantage. "There are a whole lot of issues -- but for all of them, California's issues are compounded by its size," Cather said.
Indeed, aside from the issues of how to process the new licenses, how they will be verified and what they will look like, California's biggest headache is how to physically get all 22 million licensed drivers -- plus an additional 2 million identification card holders -- through the DMV's 169 field offices.
Currently, a resident can get a license renewal twice by mail, meaning a trip to the DMV only once every 15 years. But under Real ID, every single person seeking a renewal will have to show up in the flesh, eliminating the 2.5 million transactions a year that can currently be done by mail or over the Internet.
"It's going to have a tremendous impact on us," Cather said, noting that many offices are already overcrowded. With no time to build new facilities, he expects modular trailers to be used at many locations.
The DMV also is starting to try to deflect other business to its Web site, hoping that customers who don't need to appear in person will conduct their transactions online, thus clearing the way for license renewals.
"We're starting to emphasize it now so that people use the DMV without coming into the offices," Cather said. "Even with all that, the length of lines could be a tremendous problem."
Once at the office, every person will have to show proof of identification -- likely a birth certificate or passport. The DMV will then be required to verify that document. Cather said the department obviously won't be able to make phone calls to county clerks all across the country; somehow a federal computer system will have to be established, but nothing has been done to date.
Applicants will also have to show two items that prove their address -- it's unknown what those will be, but probably a document such as a utility bill.
While the budgeted money allows the DMV to begin to think about these problems and work on ways to mitigate their effects, Democratic lawmakers made sure the language attached severely limits what the agency can do. In fact, the agency can only spend half the money at first; it must report back to the Legislature on its work before the remainder is allocated.
The bill that would allow the DMV to continue preparing the state for Real ID compliance also would grant driver's licenses to undocumented workers.
Democrats have tied the issues together in an attempt to force the Schwarzenegger administration to broker a deal.
For the seventh year, Sen. Gilbert Cedillo, D-Los Angeles, is working on the effort to authorize California driver's licenses for undocumented workers. It was signed into law by Gov. Gray Davis before he was recalled from office, but Cedillo agreed to repeal the bill rather than face an initiative to overturn it. He thinks Schwarzenegger promised to come up with a compromise measure, but the governor has vetoed the bill every year since.
The Real ID Act permits, but does not require, states to provide driving-only licenses to illegal immigrants. It states that such licenses must have a distinguishing color or mark, an idea Schwarzenegger had proposed at one time but Cedillo had resisted until the federal law was written.
Cedillo said the governor, who is running for re-election, is trying to avoid the issue by asking for the money but not the legislation.
"On the one hand the governor is asking for money, but on the other hand he is playing politics by not signing the bill," Cedillo said.
Last year, Schwarzenegger said he wanted to wait until the federal rules were out before he signed the bill. Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Margita Thompson said the state cannot even begin to guess what the federal government will say is required to prove the identity of someone born outside the United States, or how the license should be different from that granted to a citizen.
But Cedillo said he will not let go of this issue, so if the governor wants legislation to implement the Real ID Act, he will have to deal with the senator.
"I have more time in the Legislature than he has as governor," Cedillo said. "There's no point in waiting. This is a policy he's going to have to implement."
Another article on Real ID from the those who think it will 'fix' what they think is wrong.
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html
License lunacy
Monday, July 24, 2006
Maryland, with its loose driver's license requirements, has become quite a popular destination for immigrants -- and, no doubt, illegals -- looking for a free ride.
The Old Line State's Motor Vehicle Administration (MVA) reports weekly out-of-country license applications have nearly doubled since March. And what a coincidence, this parallels renewed calls for amnesty for illegals.
Maryland's lure is that it's one of only eight states that do not require a legal residence to get a driver's license. All that's needed is a relative's Maryland address and you're in. (Maryland has no way to verify whether someone is falsely using a relative's address, according to an MVA official.)
Whether or not President Bush gets his amnesty plan, Maryland undoubtedly will get the bill for increased social services for all those immigrants without insurance -- that is, if they stay put or use their dandy new Maryland licenses in other states.
And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van? They could appeal to Maryland's Democrat-controlled Legislature, which thrice has rejected tougher licensing standards.
There is a silver lining: Under the Real ID Act, licenses from states that do not verify applicants' legal presence won't have the same clout. But that doesn't kick in until 2008.
By then, the damage already will be done.
Quote from: CNHT on July 24, 2006, 10:03 AM NHFT
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html
And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?
To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?
Poor argument.
Quote from: KBCraig on July 24, 2006, 02:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on July 24, 2006, 10:03 AM NHFT
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html
And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?
To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?
Poor argument.
Not my argument. As I said, I am just posting articles about Real ID whether pro or con so you can see the propaganda, so please don't attribute that question to me as if I said it...make sure you say it's from the article.
Most of the articles I am posting are from states who are realizing the COST, even if they don't trumpet the loss of privacy.
PS - for those of you who remember my famous car wash accident, I ran into a woman with NO insurance. My insurance paid for both of us and thus it went up.
So the fact that I got insurance meant I took on the burden. However, if I am uninsured and hit her and she sued me, I'd be in worse trouble.
I have no idea how she would protect all she owned if she had an accident while driving without insurance herself.
Quote from: CNHT on July 24, 2006, 03:12 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on July 24, 2006, 02:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on July 24, 2006, 10:03 AM NHFT
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html
And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?
To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?
Poor argument.
Not my argument. As I said, I am just posting articles about Real ID whether pro or con so you can see the propaganda, so please don't attribute that question to me as if I said it...make sure you say it's from the article.
That's why I included the URL in the quote, to make it clear that it was from the article, not you.
Kevin
Quote from: KBCraig on July 24, 2006, 03:40 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on July 24, 2006, 03:12 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on July 24, 2006, 02:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on July 24, 2006, 10:03 AM NHFT
http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/pittsburghtrib/opinion/archive/s_462857.html
And whom do motorists turn to if an uninsured illegal on the road runs into the family van?
To whom do they turn if an uninsured Mayflower descendent runs into the family van?
Poor argument.
Not my argument. As I said, I am just posting articles about Real ID whether pro or con so you can see the propaganda, so please don't attribute that question to me as if I said it...make sure you say it's from the article.
That's why I included the URL in the quote, to make it clear that it was from the article, not you.
Kevin
Ok thanks. ;D
http://news.mywebpal.com/partners/680/public/news735079.html
The real ID issue
07/25/06
THE STATE?S mandatory photo ID for voters having now been shelved by the courts until after the runoff, perhaps the general election and maybe even longer, as being in probable violation of both the Georgia and U.S Constitutions, this becomes an opportune time to ask the more reflective question regarding this entire concept. The U.S. District Court in Rome, and the Georgia Supreme Court, both have restrained the new law?s use until several specific challenges can be determined. These involve its potential effects, possibly discriminatory in outcome if not necessarily intention, such as making it more difficult for the poor, limited-mobility seniors, many minorities to claim their right to vote..
As federal jurist Harold L. Murphy noted, there?s nothing illegal about a state legislature messing with election laws unnecessarily or even doing so with the intention of improving their party?s election chances. There probably should be (see redistricting), but there isn?t. Indeed, Murphy noted that the legislators could try, try again to come up with something constitutional ? and the General Assembly has already rewritten it once ? but that in this instance there is sufficient reason to believe it might violate both the First and 14th Amendments to the Constitution.
A LEGISLATURE, he warned, ?cannot pass and enforce a voter ID law with a discriminatory purpose.? Murphy?s written opinion, to support his immediate injunction ordered from the bench, makes for an interesting read, even though it approaches book length.
Thus far the legal debate has concentrated, as such matters must, on relatively narrow points of attack, although there are so many of them that it would seem difficult, once the dust settles in the U.S. Supreme Court some years in the future, for some of the challenges not to stick. The real issue may be far more fundamental.
On what basis does the government pursue the notion that it can require the 99.99 percent of Americans who are qualified to vote to prove they are so legally entitled? Should not the government, rather, be out after the 00.01 percent of voters who might be cheaters?
Isn?t this rather like arresting everybody in the country and giving them the third degree on the dubious justification that this would catch whatever terrorist sympathizers might be in our midst?
Our system of government was formed out of thin air by ?We the people? ? indeed, those are the first three words of the U.S. Constitution. The government did not grant the people the right to participate in government but rather the people granted government the privilege of existing so long as it followed certain spelled-out rules.
MOREOVER, the Declaration of Independence, in which the same ?we the people? launched a revolution in order to govern themselves, similarly declares:
?We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. ? That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed.?
The primacy of ?the people? and their superiority over ?government? is made rather plain. And ?consent of the governed? is saying nothing more than ?voting? as there is no other method by which general consent may be granted. To be sure, the government acting as agent for ?we the people? has a responsibility to protect the process against fraud and ineligible participants. Indeed, that is the camouflage used in trying to slip such laws as the voter photo ID through.
And, there?s nothing wrong with the idea although there may be a lot wrong with the way Georgia?s mostly Republican legislators went about it. Basically they sought to assure elections would be as American as apple pie and instead concocted a pineapple upside-down cake.
WORSE, IN TRYING to re-invent a wheel that already existed (you?ve already got to sign up to vote beforehand and prove that you are you in the process) they concentrated on in-person voting and left absentee voting untouched even though the state has had no in-person voting fraud cases in at least a decade. The sanctity of absentees, particularly of the by-mail variety, is far less certain.
The central issue, for those of a contemplative state of mind, is actually whether the government, which is the creature of ?we the people,? can turn around and decide who is allowed to be in ?we the people.? This would, of course, be a revolution in itself, amounting to government seizing final authority from the people ? in effect, coming full circle to make itself King George III.
If government, in the process of trying to assure election purity, accidentally or intentionally removes even one fully qualified and eligible member from participating in the ?consent of the governed? then the action should and must be considered unconstitutional. If even one of us is denied the ability to ?consent? (or oppose) then the entire enterprise instantly loses its justification.
This is assuredly a high standard to which to hold elected representatives. But then, our entire system of government was formed to insist that those temporarily acting on the behalf of ?we the people? would abide by higher standards of protecting freedom and individual liberty than had ever appeared in the world before.
THERE IS SIMPLY no reason to retreat from such high goals ? ever.
I heard some new news today out of www.nonationalid.com (http://www.nonationalid.com):
"The opposition to the REAL ID Act has been great and unrelenting. DC Downsizers, one of many groups who oppose Real ID, has so far pumped out 40,362 messages to Congress calling for the repeal of the REAL ID Act, which President Bush signed into law in 2005. Two Senators, Democrat Daniel Akaka of Hawaii and Republican John Sununu of New Hampshire, are now threatening to sponsor legislation that would attempt to repeal the REAL ID Act if the Department of Homeland Security does not adopt new regulations.
ACLU Lauds Akaka-Sununu Real ID Fix Bill, Says Additional Privacy and Civil Liberties Safeguards Still Needed
The American Civil Liberties Union is welcoming bipartisan legislation authored by Senators Daniel Akaka and John Sununu that would add privacy and civil liberties safeguards to the Real ID Act. The "Identification Security Enhancement Act of 2006" would address several of the shortcomings of the controversial legislation. The Akaka-Sununu bill would eliminate most of the requirements that laid the foundation for a National ID card, such as the obligation that all data and systems be standardized."
Does anyone know anything about this RealID fix bill?
One thing is for sure, we should all keep lobbying against Real ID.
Quote from: mr.apathy on December 27, 2006, 01:17 PM NHFT
ACLU Lauds Akaka-Sununu Real ID Fix Bill, Says Additional Privacy and Civil Liberties Safeguards Still Needed
Does anyone know anything about this RealID fix bill?
One thing is for sure, we should all keep lobbying against Real ID.
I have not researched this yet, but I'll bet a call or email to Sen. Sununu's (R- NH) office might yield some results.
http://sununu.senate.gov/webform.html
Does anyone have contact info for Paul hodes?
Quote from: aries on December 28, 2006, 12:13 AM NHFT
Does anyone have contact info for Paul hodes?
You can try but someone here did before the elections and never got an answer. Hodes is a slick liberal lawyer who defends criminals.
I think you'll find it much more effective to contact your State Reps and your State Senator and tell them that you are against the RealID, and you support any legislation to opt NH out of such a system:
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/ns/whosmyleg/default.asp
Think of it this way:
The Feds get 40,000 emails, and the most libertarian 2% of the Senate introduces a weak bill wth no teeth trying to oppose RealID, and that bill is highly unlikely to pass anyway.
In contrast, just 12 NH Senators killed HB1582 (which would have oped NH out of Real-ID). Most of those Senators were not re-elected. Governor Lynch has publicly said he'd sign similar legislation if it crosses his desk this upcoming session.
As such, a few hundred people contacting their legislators virtually guarantees there will not be any RealID for the citizens of New Hampshire... apply your energy where it counts!!!
Quote from: CNHT on December 28, 2006, 12:53 AM NHFT
Hodes is a slick liberal lawyer who defends criminals.
Hey, some of my best FSP friends are criminals. Russell, Mike, Lauren... ;D
They didn't use lawyers, though. ;)
Quote from: KBCraig on December 28, 2006, 06:01 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on December 28, 2006, 12:53 AM NHFT
Hodes is a slick liberal lawyer who defends criminals.
Hey, some of my best FSP friends are criminals. Russell, Mike, Lauren... ;D
They didn't use lawyers, though. ;)
Well! I think you know I mean people like one of those mentioned stealing the tax money!
Quote from: CNHT on December 28, 2006, 12:53 AM NHFT
Quote from: aries on December 28, 2006, 12:13 AM NHFT
Does anyone have contact info for Paul hodes?
You can try but someone here did before the elections and never got an answer. Hodes is a slick liberal lawyer who defends criminals.
I'm a slick libertarian lawyer who defends people the government calls criminals.
Quote from: Spencer on December 28, 2006, 11:09 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on December 28, 2006, 12:53 AM NHFT
Quote from: aries on December 28, 2006, 12:13 AM NHFT
Does anyone have contact info for Paul hodes?
You can try but someone here did before the elections and never got an answer. Hodes is a slick liberal lawyer who defends criminals.
I'm a slick libertarian lawyer who defends people the government calls criminals.
That deserves karma. +1.
Quote from: Rocketman on December 29, 2006, 12:46 AM NHFT
Quote from: Spencer on December 28, 2006, 11:09 PM NHFT
I'm a slick libertarian lawyer who defends people the government calls criminals.
That deserves karma. +1.
+1 for both of you. And Jane too, except I'm in the 12 hour lockout from the last time I
gropedapplauded her.
;)
Kevin
Quote from: CNHT on July 24, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Another state balks at the cost and in conveniece of Real ID:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2006/07/24/MNGIHK4CT01.DTL
Long waits looming for license renewals
DMV officials fear new federal ID rules will lengthen lines
Lynda Gledhill, Chronicle Sacramento Bureau
Monday, July 24, 2006
(07-24) 04:00 PDT Sacramento -- Starting in 2008, all 22 million licensed California drivers will be required to go in person to a DMV office and prove their identity and address with three different documents before getting a new, federally approved state license.
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The bill that would allow the DMV to continue preparing the state for Real ID compliance also would grant driver's licenses to undocumented workers.
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The Real ID Act permits, but does not require, states to provide driving-only licenses to illegal immigrants. It states that such licenses must have a distinguishing color or mark, an idea Schwarzenegger had proposed at one time but Cedillo had resisted until the federal law was written.
Last year, Schwarzenegger said he wanted to wait until the federal rules were out before he signed the bill. Schwarzenegger spokeswoman Margita Thompson said the state cannot even begin to guess what the federal government will say is required to prove the identity of someone born outside the United States, or how the license should be different from that granted to a citizen.
This is typical vintage California politics. They're just too happy to jump on the real ID bandwagon, but want to be sure to include
undocumented aliens. As far as making licenses for undocumented aliens a different color, how many TSA agents are going to know the color of a normal Calif. license once you get a state or two away from Calif.?
The irony here is the paragraph about guessing what the Feds will require for proof of ID for legal immigrants--the governor may fail to qualify for the program he's championing.
"Driving-only" licenses for "undocumented aliens" aren't good for proving identity, so stringent proof of identity isn't required.
Tennessee already issues them. I think a few other states do as well.
New Hampshire now has a REAL-ID compliant license.
Not a whisper of this from all those that fought hard to prevent it? Or am I missing all the activity on that wonderful organizing platform of Facebook?
NH Senate approves bill allowing Real ID compliance
(http://www.unionleader.com/NH-Senate-approves-bill-allowing-Real-ID-compliance)
So many of us were involved in the anti-REAL-ID efforts. Now we see that the politicians screwed over the will of the people.
QuoteThe Senate voted 18-4 to approve House Bill 1616 after defeating an attempt to make a Real ID compliant license the standard, and allowing those opposed to opt out.
I don't see how this isn't a direct assault on the bill passed in 2007 that we fought so hard to attain.
QuoteLawmakers passed a 2007 law that forbids state officials from complying with Real ID, but now citizens without a compliant state license or identification cannot enter federal buildings or facilities. And beginning in January 2018, they can't enter airports unless they have a passport or go through enhanced screening.
Maine still isn't compliant.
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/10/12/homeland-security-wont-extend-deadline-for-maine-compliance-with-federal-id-law/
Maine is one of only five states that Homeland Security has deemed noncompliant and have not been granted extensions. The others are Kentucky, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and South Carolina. The remaining states have either been granted extensions or already have come into compliance.
Quote from: blackie on October 24, 2016, 08:30 AM NHFT
Maine still isn't compliant.
http://www.pressherald.com/2016/10/12/homeland-security-wont-extend-deadline-for-maine-compliance-with-federal-id-law/
Maine is one of only five states that Homeland Security has deemed noncompliant and have not been granted extensions. The others are Kentucky, Oklahoma, Pennsylvania and South Carolina. The remaining states have either been granted extensions or already have come into compliance.
Good on ya'll. Or should I say Yous guys. ;D
I was reading that as well.
This is one of those lines in the sand that could be a real issue (pun intended). Trust in the gooberment is at an all time low. Now is the time to force them to drive the wedge in.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 24, 2016, 08:20 AM NHFT
New Hampshire now has a REAL-ID compliant license.
Only for those who opt in. For everyone else, it's not.
Quote from: KBCraig on October 24, 2016, 11:07 AM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 24, 2016, 08:20 AM NHFT
New Hampshire now has a REAL-ID compliant license.
Only for those who opt in. For everyone else, it's not.
They weaseled out. Wasn't the whole point of the 2007 law to prevent the state government from going along?
Did any of the people that fought the first time even sound the alarm for this law?
They played the game of getting to say they saved the people from the more onerous law by compromising. That's the story of the republicans giving away freedom at a slightly slower rate than the democrats.
Thread over at Free State Project Forum
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=28447.msg299353#msg299353
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on October 24, 2016, 07:20 PM NHFT
Thread over at Free State Project Forum
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=28447.msg299353#msg299353
QuoteThe effort put into stopping this was squandered. We worked hard and had to deal with back room sneaky dealings with the republicans from Washington. After all that, we won and now it's been weaseled away.
Now it's a divide and conquer game and they have the lead. It could have been a state's rights showdown. Now it will be a steady marginalizing against an ever shrinking group of individuals. To say I'm disappointed is an understatement.
I'm wondering if this is in violation of the law created in 2007?
I didn't realize maine was the first state to oppose real ID.
On January 25, 2007, a Resolution passed overwhelmingly in the Maine Legislature that refuses implementation of the Real ID Act in that state, and calls on Congress to repeal the law. Many Maine lawmakers believe the law does more harm than good, that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to enforce, is threatening to individual privacy, makes citizens increasingly vulnerable to ID theft, and would cost Maine taxpayers at least $185 million in five years because of the massive unfunded federal mandates on all the states. The Resolution vote in the Maine House was 137–4 and in the Maine Senate unanimous, 34–0.
Quote from: blackie on October 24, 2016, 08:29 PM NHFT
I didn't realize maine was the first state to oppose real ID.
On January 25, 2007, a Resolution passed overwhelmingly in the Maine Legislature that refuses implementation of the Real ID Act in that state, and calls on Congress to repeal the law. Many Maine lawmakers believe the law does more harm than good, that it would be a bureaucratic nightmare to enforce, is threatening to individual privacy, makes citizens increasingly vulnerable to ID theft, and would cost Maine taxpayers at least $185 million in five years because of the massive unfunded federal mandates on all the states. The Resolution vote in the Maine House was 137–4 and in the Maine Senate unanimous, 34–0.
Wow, that was a strong vote. I hope that Maine holds the line.