I'm going to build myself (or maybe contract it to somebody else) an Underground house in New Hampshire -- with passive solor heating so I don't need to pay for it. Solar panals for the electricity (I've got to have my video games.)
Besides the Underground House book by Rob Roy, really how many other reasources are out there.
Please post everything underground house related here.
Tracy
Libertarian emergency bomb shelter.
I like it.
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 06, 2006, 02:20 AM NHFT
I'm going to build myself (or maybe contract it to somebody else) an Underground house in New Hampshire -- with passive solor heating so I don't need to pay for it. Solar panals for the electricity (I've got to have my video games.)
Besides the Underground House book by Rob Roy, really how many other reasources are out there.
Please post everything underground house related here.
Tracy
I've had that same dream for years now. I tried to get a construction loan a couple years ago, but the bank wouldn't give me one. They said that an underground home was "too unconventional", and if I were to foreclose, they might have a hard time reselling it. A well designed earth sheltered home only uses about 10% of the energy as a conventional home. If you go to my blog, then click on my profile, then click on my wish list, there is a list of books on earth sheltered home design. From what I've read, the cost of building earth sheltered homes has gotten pretty close to the cost of conventional homes.
The biggest problem I think to building an underground house in NH is hitting a ledge when you start to dig or even water! With a ledge i suppose you could blast but that'd get pretty dang expensive, not sure what solution would be for hitting water... you could bury a boat underground as a shell for you house :-D
Actually, that's one neat thing about an underground house. You can get all sorts of big "things" (greyhound bus, school bus, yacht, etc) at the junk yard and just bury them and you'd have a good start for a house, just connect them all together, insulate and you're done :-)
:o
Another possibility is to build into the side of a hill. You could either leave the south wall exposed for light, air, and solar gain, or fill around it, extending the hillside.
Lex, In theory, you are probably right, although I would want at least a certain amount of structural integrity before burying something. You could always cover a bus in rebar and spray-on concrete, then it would probably be ok. In one of my military manuals, I remember reading about various types of improvised bomb shelters, and one idea that was recommended was to bury a shipping container so that only the doors are exposed. I'm hoping to buy a 20' shipping container to use as a shed. Then when I move, I can have a truck pick it up and drop it where I'm moving to. Once I have my own land, I can bury the shipping container, and even run underground wires to the house for power. They would make great underground sheds and workshops. I would probably coat them in spray on bed liner before burying them though, to prevent rust and leaks. One great thing about underground homes is that you only need to insulate the parts that are within a few feet of the surface. You could always dig a shallow hole to build in, then bring in a bunch of clean fill to cover it up.
Quote from: AlanM on June 06, 2006, 09:35 AM NHFT
Another possibility is to build into the side of a hill. You could either leave the south wall exposed for light, air, and solar gain, or fill around it, extending the hillside.
That's kindof what I'm doing, although not to the degree that the house will be underground. My goal is so that the basement will be underground (that one's obvious) then have the second floor buried half way (the back side facing the hill would be in the hill but the front side would be sticking out) and the third floor will be completely out of the ground.
The reason I decided to do this is because our property is facing north and if we put too much of the house in the hill we will not get any sun from the south. I'm hoping to get enough solar heat into the house through the third floor to make it worthwhile.
Right now i'm in the clearing and road building stage. We've got almost a quarter mile of road to put in from the main road to the planned house site.
How does one keep an underground house from...flooding? I get the impression that it might be hard to find every single possible hole...especially if you're using a rusty old bus!
Quote from: fourthgeek on June 06, 2006, 11:42 AM NHFT
How does one keep an underground house from...flooding? I get the impression that it might be hard to find every single possible hole...especially if you're using a rusty old bus!
There are several ways:
1. Best prevention of flooding is to not have water near your house in the first place! This is done through french drains and other drainage systems around the perimeter of the foundation. Make sure to use gravel or other easily drainable materials when backfilling the foundation, this way water will not collect near the house and flow right down through the gravel and hopefuly into your drainage pipes and out away from the house.
2. There is no such thing as a water proof house (otherwise it would be a boat :-) but you can still make it as water resistent as possible. There are many products out there for wrapping your foundation, some are designed to resist water from entering the home and others are designed to help the water escape away from the house.
3. DON'T BUILD IN A FLOOD ZONE, STUPID! <-- my favorite piece of advice, if only the folks in NO would heed it
4. Find out how high the water table is but more importantly look at the history of the areas water table, it can fluctuate significantly and if you build your house below one of the highest water table levels then be prepared that if the water table goes that high up again you are screwed.
That's all i can think of for now.
Does NH count as a flood zone?
Quote from: fourthgeek on June 06, 2006, 02:59 PM NHFT
Does NH count as a flood zone?
There are some areas in NH that are considered flood zones but i think that's true for just about anywhere.
Map of NH flood zones: http://www.rpc-nh.org/PDFs/docs/openspace/mapIV-3a.pdf
Note: it didn't come near my house <whew!>
Tracy, I'm sure you have ideas on how you want your house to look, but I thought I would offer you this: http://www.calearth.org/EcoDome.htm
Nader Khalali is an architect whose practical (cheap!) building method I would use, if I ever had to build from scratch. (We own our own place now, so I'm not into building). I think his current versions are built above ground, but there's nothing says you can't use his techniques and excavate, so that much of the house is below ground.
Quote from: Defender of Liberty on June 06, 2006, 06:24 AM NHFT
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 06, 2006, 02:20 AM NHFT
I'm going to build myself (or maybe contract it to somebody else) an Underground house in New Hampshire -- with passive solor heating so I don't need to pay for it. Solar panals for the electricity (I've got to have my video games.)
Besides the Underground House book by Rob Roy, really how many other reasources are out there.
Please post everything underground house related here.
Tracy
I've had that same dream for years now. I tried to get a construction loan a couple years ago, but the bank wouldn't give me one. They said that an underground home was "too unconventional", and if I were to foreclose, they might have a hard time reselling it. A well designed earth sheltered home only uses about 10% of the energy as a conventional home. If you go to my blog, then click on my profile, then click on my wish list, there is a list of books on earth sheltered home design. From what I've read, the cost of building earth sheltered homes has gotten pretty close to the cost of conventional homes.
Many times they can be cheeper. Especially if you know what you're doing and can do parts of it yourself. The Complete underground house book said they build their's for about $15,000. Of course that book was written 10 years ago -- but he built it in Maine. And it's twice the quare footage of my current home. Plus I probably wouldn't build it all myself. I just don't have the physique. But from what I've read, contractures can build a decent sized underground home for about $40,000. If I can purchase an Acre of land somewhere (I know if you buy large plotts of it, you can get it for about $300-500/acre but I wouldn't want that much.) I would think I could have it for about the same price as a regular house. $40,000 for the construction. $10,000 for the solar electric system (or in a few years -- probably a lot less.) and boom, I'm done. I don't know that I'd want to grow my own food, or have my own water, but if it could be done with-out too much more hassle, I could think about it.
Thanks, for the Blog link.
QuoteAnother possibility is to build into the side of a hill. You could either leave the south wall exposed for light, air, and solar gain, or fill around it, extending the hillside.
That's actually the plan. Build into a house so that the south side is exposed. If you've got enough thermal mass, and enough windows, you'll maintain about 70 degrees in your home even durring the cold of winter. What you really need to be carefully of is having too many Windows so it doesn't overheat -- but even that's fixable. Just put external blinds over parts of them, to reflect the sun-light.
Tracy
Quote from: fourthgeek on June 06, 2006, 11:42 AM NHFT
How does one keep an underground house from...flooding? I get the impression that it might be hard to find every single possible hole...especially if you're using a rusty old bus!
You need to make sure the aquafer level never gets above the ground level of your house. Otherwise you need an expensive energy sucking sump-pump during periods of high aquafer levels. Otherthen that. Good waterproofing. I'm not planing on using a bus. I'm planing on actually building it.Many materials are already waterproof -- then you just put waterproofing materials over it, and they actually last quite a long time.
There are even technologies for dealing with the frost line, that aren't expensive.
TRacy
Thanks Marcy.
The real problem with underground houses is the lateral stress -- and I'm really not sure that these designs wouldn't callapse under the constant pressure purshing against the side. (Sometimes as high as 200 pounds/square inch or so.)
But perhaps you could modify it.
TRacy
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 06, 2006, 10:08 PM NHFT
Thanks Marcy.
The real problem with underground houses is the lateral stress -- and I'm really not sure that these designs wouldn't callapse under the constant pressure purshing against the side. (Sometimes as high as 200 pounds/square inch or so.)
All depends on what you use as a filler around the foundation. If you just fill in with dirt and water builds up it'll be A LOT more than 200 psi, possibly even into the thousands... Expanding water can easily break through concrete. That's why "frost heaves" are so common in NH and it's not unheardof of basement walls bulging due to poor drainage and freezing temp.
Anyways, i don't think there is a general number for pressure exterted on a basement because it can vary widely based on the soil, fill, temperature and drainage.
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 06, 2006, 10:00 PM NHFT
I don't know that I'd want to grow my own food, or have my own water, but if it could be done with-out too much more hassle, I could think about it.
Were do you plan to get your water? By "your own" do you mean not from a well or water catchment system?
I know these are not cheap but if you are looking for low energy and great strength, you can bury them check out
monolithicdomes.com
A better way to break out of design problems is to stop thinking "underground", and start thinking "earth sheltered". If you reduce the amount of excavation, and instead fill in on and around the home, you can achieve just as much thermal mass. And, have fewer worries about water infiltration, hitting "ledge", etc.
Or, think of it this way: scrape down to ledge, build the house, and then bury it.
This gives you even greater control over the shape of the roof and exterior, so that you have as much water shedding as possible. Water will always win: waterproofing only delays the inevitable. Instead of fighting it with brute force, gently redirect it. Water will go where it wants to go, so offer a more desirable path away from your walls.
And, because even water is fickle, french-drain the heck out of everything, just in case.
Kevin
You can't beat ledge for a solid foundation! ;D
Quote from: lawofattraction on June 07, 2006, 08:27 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 06, 2006, 11:52 PM NHFTWere do you plan to get your water? By "your own" do you mean not from a well or water catchment system?
I think he is planning to build his underground house in downtown Manchester.
That'll go real well with the local
nazis authorities.
In Hopkinton there is an underground house. Actually it might only be about 1/2 underground. It is pretty cool looking.
It is about 1/2 mile from where I live.
I told my son that mole people live in it.
I did a quick check on realtor.com for properties in manchester and the prices are :o An acre or less can go for $500k-$1m. You can buy 50 acres for that and build a nice house somewhere a bit farther from the city AND get piece of mind that when the shit hits the fan every resident in the city won't be at your door trying to take your food.
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 06, 2006, 11:52 PM NHFT
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 06, 2006, 10:00 PM NHFT
I don't know that I'd want to grow my own food, or have my own water, but if it could be done with-out too much more hassle, I could think about it.
Were do you plan to get your water? By "your own" do you mean not from a well or water catchment system?
I was thinking about just piping in City water.
Is it relatively easy to have your own water source in NH? I guess I'm in the midwest, with relatively little rainfall so it's really a lot more economical to pay somebody else then to do it yourself.
Tracy
Quote from: lawofattraction on June 07, 2006, 08:27 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 06, 2006, 11:52 PM NHFTWere do you plan to get your water? By "your own" do you mean not from a well or water catchment system?
I think he is planning to build his underground house in downtown Manchester.
LOL
Grafton
TRacy
Tracy,
Many towns don't have water. Esp in the places were you are going to homestead you are more likely to have a well.
Well are very common. Very.
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 07, 2006, 12:07 PM NHFT
Grafton
There is no city water in grafton there is also no sewage system or garbage pickup.
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 07, 2006, 10:22 AM NHFT
I did a quick check on realtor.com for properties in manchester and the prices are :o An acre or less can go for $500k-$1m. You can buy 50 acres for that and build a nice house somewhere a bit farther from the city AND get piece of mind that when the shit hits the fan every resident in the city won't be at your door trying to take your food.
Exactly why I'm not moving to a major urban area :)
TRacy
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 07, 2006, 12:09 PM NHFT
I'm not moving to a major urban area :)
TRacy
Then you will probably have a well. Plus you don't want to suck off the government do you?
Quote from: Dreepa on June 07, 2006, 12:08 PM NHFT
Tracy,
Many towns don't have water. Esp in the places were you are going to homestead you are more likely to have a well.
Well are very common. Very.
Well, OK.
I just didn't know much about it. If it's fairly common, then maybe I should just use well water. Or water collection.
How is the aquafer in New Hampshire? Is it so plentifull that it's just part of the commons and people don't worry about overusing it? Or are their aquafer rights I'd need to purchase to use well-water. I'm sure all of my neighbors would be using water from the same aquafer. Forgive me. I'm originally from Idaho where these sorts of water rights are very important to negatiate if your a homesteader, because if it were common property their wouldn't be any aquafer left.
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 07, 2006, 12:09 PM NHFT
There is no city water in grafton there is also no sewage system or garbage pickup.
Thanks Lex. Well, I suppose if everybody in Grafton does their own sewage and water, It must not be that difficult. Perhaps I will do my own water and sewage.
Tracy
Deja vu ;)
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=2611.0
Quote from: tracysaboe on June 07, 2006, 12:18 PM NHFT
Thanks Lex. Well, I suppose if everybody in Grafton does their own sewage and water, It must not be that difficult. Perhaps I will do my own water and sewage.
It
is difficult and requires maintenance. But you have no choice.
Do we need a dome thread?
http://www.monolithic.com/thedome/index.html
Kat even knows a guy that works there in Italy TX ..... pronounced itlee :)
My friend Storm Bear who incidently ran for the Reform Party's presidential nomination against Pat Buchanan came up with a nifty idea called "Hobbit Holes" which use very large concrete pipes to construct an underground house...
http://www.stormbear.com/bagend2/index.php (http://www.stormbear.com/bagend2/index.php)
excerpt:
All around the world, companies manufacture pre-formed concrete pipe... LARGE concrete pipe. Concrete pipe has several advantages for making Hobbit Holes. They come with an assortment of flanges, protrusions and options that allows for the creation of windows, skylights, doors, garages, fireplaces and chimneys.
As one can see, using such materials for the construction of a Hobbit Hole would make for a comfy home. Or at least a conversation piece.
Although the elliptical may have some aesthetic advantages, the use of round concrete pipe may be the best choice. The main reason is that you will need to have room to place plumbing, ventilation, electrical and communication hardware though out the Hole.
The best solution for this is the area under your flooring. The best example of this type of construction is in naval architecture with sailboats. Plan all of your plumbing, ventilation and wiring, then figure out how much space you will need, vertically. Maybe the use of multiple styles, circular for halls and elliptical for rooms, is the best idea. The halls would need the most space for plumbing, etc as all rooms connect to it. That is the design philosophy I have used for Bag End 2.
Quote from: russellkanning on June 13, 2006, 12:55 PM NHFT
Kat even knows a guy that works there in Italy TX ..... pronounced itlee :)
I'm from Arkansas, so I understand. Stuttgart is "STUTT-gahrt", not "SHTOOT-gaert". Glen Campbell is from "DEE-light", not Delight. Dierks is "derks" to people not from there, "dayrks" to those who are, and "derricks" to those who aren't, but learned the pronunciation from those who are.
I'm was born in DeQueen, which is "duh-QUEEN" if you're trying to not sound ignernt, or "DEE-queen" if you just don't care.
Yoccana is "yockiny". Talihina, OK is "tal-uh-hay-nee". Zafra, OK is "zafrey". Don't ask me to explain. I'll roll with the flow that those who live there are entitled to decide proper pronunciation.
Kevin
What's the aquifer level typically in NH?
Is the terain typically fairly hilly so you can build into the side of a hill if the aquafer level is too high?
Tracy
yes
I have a lot of info on this, and a similar dream (not in NH, but probably New England - Maine?)
Check out http://www.Earthship.org (http://www.earthship.org) for one - that's where I started. The places are beautiful. And if you look on YouTube, you can find a nice video about the places, one of them that's been built, and really good walkthroughs.
As for other info, check out my archive at
http://www.overlookedcreations.com/archive/skills/architecture_and_building (http://www.overlookedcreations.com/archive/skills/architecture_and_building)
Take care, and if you want, I can zip and send you ALL the info I have on solar stuff (it's a lot - won't fit on my server).
nf1
Thanks!
I PMed you my e-mail adress.
Tracy
If anyone makes an underground home/complex, keep some room for me and I'll join you there in a few years. ;) It needs to be near the Dartmouth area and a state prison and/or local jail. This will aid in my ultimate plan for liberty that will commence at that time. :plotting:
Maybe by the time you get back we won't have jails anymore.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 28, 2006, 12:08 AM NHFT
Maybe by the time you get back we won't have jails anymore.
That would be nice. :) If it were only that easy!
Gandhi needed 40 years and countless efforts to defeat the British through nonviolence.
We have many Gandhis this time around. :o With God's help, we'll succeed in a fraction of the time!
Quote from: Michael Fisher on August 28, 2006, 12:05 AM NHFT
If anyone makes an underground home/complex, keep some room for me and I'll join you there in a few years. ;) It needs to be near the Darmouth area and a state prison and/or local jail. This will aid in my ultimate plan for liberty that will commence at that time. :plotting:
The Dartmouth area isn't really near to any state prisons. The closest would be the Lakes Region Facility in Laconia.
There are four state prisons in NH:
http://www.nh.gov/nhdoc/facilities/index.html
Kevin
You could even use a precast septic tank to make an underground room. http://www.scituatecompanies.com/result.cfm?PID=43 (http://www.scituatecompanies.com/result.cfm?PID=43)
we'll be moving to new hampshire next spring and will be building an underground [ug] house. we're now looking into the companies involved. came across one that we liked but have never heard anything about their 'track record'. we're wondering if any of you have any info, pos or neg, on this company..? or if you know of anyone who does. the company name is Terra-Dome [www.terra-dome.com]. thanks!
They're site has them out Missouri...
You might want to check into the currently existing UG homes in NH... maybe they have someone closer.
Cool, I didn't even know about this thread. This is what I'm planning to do when I buy land.
Welcome, dann.
Quote from: Defender of Liberty on August 28, 2006, 09:24 PM NHFT
You could even use a precast septic tank to make an underground room. http://www.scituatecompanies.com/result.cfm?PID=43 (http://www.scituatecompanies.com/result.cfm?PID=43)
I wonder if you can get a used one cheaper. Oh wait... nevermind.
Quote from: dalebert on July 21, 2008, 11:01 AM NHFT
Quote from: Defender of Liberty on August 28, 2006, 09:24 PM NHFT
You could even use a precast septic tank to make an underground room. http://www.scituatecompanies.com/result.cfm?PID=43 (http://www.scituatecompanies.com/result.cfm?PID=43)
I wonder if you can get a used one cheaper. Oh wait... nevermind.
There are preformed storm cellars.
http://www.americanstormshelters.com/dropin.asp (http://www.americanstormshelters.com/dropin.asp)
Quote from: dann on July 15, 2008, 06:28 PM NHFT
we'll be moving to new hampshire next spring and will be building an underground [ug] house. we're now looking into the companies involved. came across one that we liked but have never heard anything about their 'track record'. we're wondering if any of you have any info, pos or neg, on this company..? or if you know of anyone who does. the company name is Terra-Dome [www.terra-dome.com]. thanks!
What are you buying from Terra-Dome?
Some of us would be happy to build you a underground house of whatever sort.
also ... uber 8) that you guys are moving soon dann
passive annual heat storage:
http://www.earthshelters.com/
and one step further:
http://greenershelter.org/index.php?pg=2
The second method with earth tubes seems more cost effective.
Quote from: dann on July 15, 2008, 06:28 PM NHFTwe'll be moving to new hampshire next spring and will be building an underground [ug] house. we're now looking into the companies involved. came across one that we liked but have never heard anything about their 'track record'. we're wondering if any of you have any info, pos or neg, on this company..? or if you know of anyone who does. the company name is Terra-Dome [www.terra-dome.com].
We can build an underground house, here, using insulated concrete forms. We could even manage the fancy domed roof, I suppose, but unless you are planning on a deep burial, that's not as big a deal as they make it out to be.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on July 27, 2008, 10:47 AM NHFTpassive annual heat storage:
http://www.earthshelters.com/
and one step further:
http://greenershelter.org/index.php?pg=2
Just FYI, they're selling snake oil. You can't store summer heat for winter use by using a bit of dirt. Even with the fanciest technology we have available, we cannot do that in a practical way (using mediums that are much more efficient than dirt). These houses work on the same principle as any underground house: once you go below the frost line, the temperature is very stable. An properly-designed and insulated underground house will out-perform one of those things, easily.
Why they want to claim that they are storing summer heat, instead of just talking up the thermal stability of the ground, is beyond me.
Joe
Because the PAHS system works to remove summer heat... but really doesn't work in reverse.
The first time I became aware of the earth tubes was a super-insulated house built with the tubes feeding the ERV. It helped in the winter by supplying tempered air to the ERV intake rather than the much colder ambient.
Quote from: John Edward Mercier on July 30, 2008, 06:44 AM NHFTBecause the PAHS system works to remove summer heat... but really doesn't work in reverse.
That's not PAH
S - you aren't storing heat - you're just removing it from the house and letting it dissipate. Nothing wrong with that, but when the companies start selling it as "storage," that's dishonest.
Quote from: John Edward Mercier on July 30, 2008, 06:44 AM NHFTThe first time I became aware of the earth tubes was a super-insulated house built with the tubes feeding the ERV. It helped in the winter by supplying tempered air to the ERV intake rather than the much colder ambient.
Yup. Works pretty well, although HRV's and ERV's should be used carefully - don't want to use the wrong one for the wrong application, or you can end up living in a steamroom...
Joe
It is dishonest. But I believe some people have fooled themselves into believing that any heat added to the soils will not slowly dissapate into the larger body.