New Hampshire Underground

I'm curious. 

It doesn't have any relevance for me. I don't even look at the numbers.

The old way.  The new way makes me do math.   :P

The new way. It's one thing to see that FTL_Ian has a "+1", it's another thing entirely to see that +1 is the result of 501 applauds and 500 bitchslaps ;)

I kinda like the old way better, too.  Just thought people might be interested in seeing the totals.

Should I change "smite" to "bitchslap"?

Quote from: katdillon on July 01, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT
Should I change "smite" to "bitchslap"?

No. That's just the kind of rudeness Ian seems to encourage on his FTL BBS ;)

I'm new to this forum (forums in general, for that matter!).  Can someone please explain this karma thing?  I think I get the general idea, but I'm not sure.  Do you have to be a long-term member to give it?

How about displaying it as a math figure with the total?  Of course, I have no idea how easy it would be to set up that way.

Quote from: srqrebel on July 01, 2006, 12:24 PM NHFT
I'm new to this forum (forums in general, for that matter!).  Can someone please explain the whole karma thing?

This being a libertarian/anarchist crowd, everyone has their own idea of how to use it.

I think the original idea is to show how someone contributes to the overall feeling of the forum. Do they make a positive contribution, or are they an energy drain?

In practice, it's often used as a popularity rating, either for the poster, or for their opinions. And sometimes, it's used as a vindictive tool by some --errr-- "vindictive tools".

Kevin

Quote from: KBCraig on July 01, 2006, 12:30 PM NHFT
And sometimes, it's used as a vindictive tool by some --errr-- "vindictive tools".

Karma for that joke!  ;)

Quote from: srqrebel on July 01, 2006, 12:24 PM NHFT
Do you have to be a long-term member to give it?

I think you need to make ten posts before you receive the ability to give positive and negative karma.  Once you make your tenth post, you'll see buttons to "Applaud" and "Smite" on the left side of the screen next to each post. 

Thank you Kevin and Friday, both of your responses were quite helpful. :)

Quote from: d_goddard on July 01, 2006, 10:08 AM NHFT

Quote from: katdillon on July 01, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT
Should I change "smite" to "bitchslap"?

No. That's just the kind of rudeness Ian seems to encourage on his FTL BBS ;)

Yeah.  I'd rather be "smited" than "bitchslapped."  If I'm going to be offended, I want to be too dead to suffer it   :)

I think it should have the total as well as the +/- too if that's possible,

TRacy

Quote from: tracysaboe on July 02, 2006, 01:49 PM NHFT
I think it should have the total as well as the +/- too if that's possible,

TRacy

This ain't new math, Tracy. ;D

Tracy is volunteering to do a little PHP programming -- good!
;D

Quote from: tracysaboe on July 02, 2006, 01:49 PM NHFT
I think it should have the total as well as the +/- too if that's possible,

TRacy

That is what I meant earlier when I suggested displaying it as a math figure with the total, Tracy just stated it more clearly.

Possible example: +100             or           +100/-50= +50
                         - 50
                        ------
                         + 50
It would give us the best of both worlds.  No sense in having to do the math ourselves if the program can do it for us.

eh, too many numbers

well how about it also showing the %

You could also add a karma ranking...from who has the best karma down to Frank Chordorov.

I like it the way it is now.

I'll let the poll go on for one week and then put it whichever way has the most votes, so if you care about it, get out the vote!  ;)

Quote from: katdillon on July 03, 2006, 06:38 PM NHFT
I'll let the poll go on for one week and then put it whichever way has the most votes, so if you care about it, get out the vote!  ;)

Tyranny of the majority?  ;D

Another proposal: count of karma points and the sum, so if you are "+10/-20", it would display "-10 (30)"

And I can give you a patch for both this and the +N/-N=+N, if you want. Would take a little more digging, but would probably also be pretty quick to change the karma display setting to a per-user option.

Chris

Quote from: AlanM on July 03, 2006, 06:42 PM NHFT
Tyranny of the majority?  ;D

Well that's true, Alan.  I mean, Karma has such a huge effect on people's lives.

Quote from: Minsk on July 03, 2006, 07:28 PM NHFT
Another proposal: count of karma points and the sum, so if you are "+10/-20", it would display "-10 (30)"

Isn't +10/-20 = (-10)?

Quote
And I can give you a patch for both this and the +N/-N=+N, if you want. Would take a little more digging, but would probably also be pretty quick to change the karma display setting to a per-user option.

Chris

Sure, if you'd like to do it  :)

Quote from: katdillon on July 03, 2006, 07:31 PM NHFT

Quote from: AlanM on July 03, 2006, 06:42 PM NHFT
Tyranny of the majority?  ;D

Well that's true, Alan.  I mean, Karma has such a huge effect on people's lives.

I go into days of depression each time I get smited. (except by PatK, of course)

Quote from: AlanM on July 03, 2006, 06:42 PM NHFT
Tyranny of the majority?  ;D

But this is private property... tyranny of whatever the House Rules are :)

Quote from: Minsk on July 03, 2006, 07:28 PM NHFT
would probably also be pretty quick to change the karma display setting to a per-user option.

That would rock -- Minsk is awesome!!

Quote from: katdillon on July 03, 2006, 07:33 PM NHFT

Quote from: Minsk on July 03, 2006, 07:28 PM NHFT
Another proposal: count of karma points and the sum, so if you are "+10/-20", it would display "-10 (30)"

Isn't +10/-20 = (-10)?

I think he is suggesting only displaying the karma sum (-10) and the total number of applauds/smites (30). 
I think that would be cool too.  I really like the per user option, kinda eliminates the need for the poll, and everybody will be happy!  8)

Quote from: katdillon on July 03, 2006, 07:33 PM NHFT

Quote from: Minsk on July 03, 2006, 07:28 PM NHFT
Another proposal: count of karma points and the sum, so if you are "+10/-20", it would display "-10 (30)"

Isn't +10/-20 = (-10)?

I should have typed "sum and the count": the thing outside the brackets is the karma score, the thing inside is the total number of karma points people have beaten you with (so it's easy to see how new someone is).

Quote from: katdillon on July 03, 2006, 07:33 PM NHFT

Quote
And I can give you a patch for both this and the +N/-N=+N, if you want. Would take a little more digging, but would probably also be pretty quick to change the karma display setting to a per-user option.

Sure, if you'd like to do it  :)

Adding karma modes is trivial, but has to be done in a bunch of places. Since I have to change the database to get per-user karma modes anyway, I am going to get them both at once. Have all my change points marked, so I will probably have a mod done Wednesday night.

<edit date="Tue, Jul 4 7:00 AM">
Work up a little early (like about 20 minutes ago). All of the necessary changes are now done and working with some trivial tests. User karma mode may be enabled or disabled by the administrator in Features and Options > Karma. If enabled, the user may override the forum setting from Look and Layout. Both lists contain disable plus the four formats discussed. Adding formats now consists of one trivial code change, and updating two identical language strings.

The user currently gets a "Karma display mode:" dropdown containing:

(Forum Default)
Disable karma
Enable karma total
Enable karma positive/negative
Enable karma positive/negative=sum
Enable karma sum (count)

Will try some more comprehensive tests tonight and build the package. Turns out that no database change is necessary, so install/uninstall will be trivia (I misinterpreted some of the configuration behaviors).
</edit>

Chris

Quote from: Minsk on July 03, 2006, 08:39 PM NHFT
The user currently gets a "Karma display mode:" dropdown
[...]
Will try some more comprehensive tests tonight and build the package.

This is so, so cool!
Chris/Minsk, you are making me think maybe I should learn PHP and Drupal.

BTW, I see my current Karma is:
+66/-6

I would appreciate it very, very much if nobody ever applauds or smites me ever again, I like my current stats :)

And it's posted. I would consider it Beta quality, so be careful with it (for one, don't deploy it here immediately). I do not believe any of the changes could introduce security vulnerabilities, and the changes are limited enough to make any malicious code obvious. The mod does not interfere with the patch that just came out for 1.1 RC2. I have not tried it with anything *other* than 1.1 RC2.

Please check the readme.txt for instructions, as the default behavior is the same as without the mod.

http://mods.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=379 (http://mods.simplemachines.org/index.php?mod=379)

Quote from: d_goddard on July 04, 2006, 08:39 AM NHFT
Chris/Minsk, you are making me think maybe I should learn PHP and Drupal.

PHP is fairly good learning language, especially for someone who is not trying to make their living as a programming. It is a tad complex in places, but there are lots of tutorials and the documentation is easily available. (For someone headed into a programming career, I would steer them toward something more structured; Java, or even JavaScript)

And yeah, I have a reflex to sign posts. On the other hand, there are *way* too many Chrises in the world, and I do answer to Minsk in person. So, either :)

Chris

Quote from: Pat McCotter on July 02, 2006, 03:17 PM NHFT

Quote from: tracysaboe on July 02, 2006, 01:49 PM NHFT
I think it should have the total as well as the +/- too if that's possible,

TRacy

This ain't new math, Tracy. ;D

Oh I can do it in my head.  I don't care. It was just an idea for others.

TRacy

Quote from: d_goddard on July 04, 2006, 08:39 AM NHFT
BTW, I see my current Karma is:
+66/-6

I would appreciate it very, very much if nobody ever applauds or smites me ever again, I like my current stats :)

Karma for Denis! Uhhh... oops!  :blush:

Getting OT, but....

Quote from: Minsk on July 04, 2006, 01:51 PM NHFT

Quote from: d_goddard on July 04, 2006, 08:39 AM NHFT
Chris/Minsk, you are making me think maybe I should learn PHP and Drupal.

PHP is fairly good learning language, especially for someone who is not trying to make their living as a programming. It is a tad complex in places, but there are lots of tutorials and the documentation is easily available. (For someone headed into a programming career, I would steer them toward something more structured; Java, or even JavaScript)

... and that's been my problem with it. I'm a kernel-level C programmer, I also do a lot of fairly hardcore Perl (thousands of lines of code, XS modules, etc).

PHP feels too much like VB to me. Where are the structures? References?
Anyway, I'm just bitching and procrastinating, I need to learn PHP.

Meanwhile... Steve Cobb (FSP IT director) is literally on the streets begging for PHP programmers to help out with the FSP site, which is being hugely re-architected. I love what they're planning to do with it, BTW.

http://freestateproject.org/it_handbook

It would be much appreciated if you can send a mail to scobb (at) freestateproject.org and let him know you're a pro-Freedom MySQL/PHP developer :)

Quote from: d_goddard on July 04, 2006, 08:39 AM NHFT
PHP feels too much like VB to me. Where are the structures? References?

There, just rather neglected. Like VB, PHP has the questionable advantage of being easy enough to learn that people without any architectual background are doing a lot of programming...

Quote from: d_goddard on July 04, 2006, 08:39 AM NHFT
Meanwhile... Steve Cobb (FSP IT director) is literally on the streets begging for PHP programmers to help out with the FSP site, which is being hugely re-architected. I love what they're planning to do with it, BTW.

http://freestateproject.org/it_handbook

It would be much appreciated if you can send a mail to scobb (at) freestateproject.org and let him know you're a pro-Freedom MySQL/PHP developer :)

And done. That is probably more immediately useful than my other non-work-related project, which was a lightweight peer-to-peer network similar to FreeNet, intended to help move communications (blogs, websites, chat, e-mail, VoIP, etc) into an uncensorable, untrackable, and untaxable medium.

Chris

Minsk, I don't have another forum to test your mod on.  You say it alters the database?

Seems like much ado about nothing to me...  (says he who posted the poll)

Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 07, 2006, 02:52 PM NHFT
Seems like much ado about nothing to me...  (says he who posted the poll)

I'd say there are not one but TWO really cool, highly significant results of this thread:

1) if there's feedback and a patch to the Drupal community from a Porcupine, that is huge Good Karma for us as an Internet movement. Be sure and say something nice to Minsk

2) having an actual, competent PHP/MySQL programmer fill the open slot of that name on the FSP org chart will do more than anything else to turn the FSP website into one people will be super-impressed with. There are Big Plans afoot, but a good coder was needed. Again, be sure and say something nice to Minsk!!

Quote from: katdillon on July 07, 2006, 04:27 AM NHFT
Minsk, I don't have another forum to test your mod on.  You say it alters the database?

Whoops, guess I should have paid attention to this thread.

The mod adds one forum setting and one per-user setting. Those settings are stored in the database by the SMF options handling code, so will get "left behind" if the mod is removed. Otherwise, no database changes are made.

I did my testing locally with the WAMP package http://www.wampserver.com/en/ (http://www.wampserver.com/en/), which makes it relatively easy to get set up. My outside work has migrated to Ruby on Rails, so I no longer even have a server to install it on for you to take a look at.

I never realized how much I liked the old way of karma (+xx, -xx)  until we switched away from it!

It is easier , with that method, to get a feel for who you can trust.

Guess i shoulda voted...

Is there a way you can call up a person's total positives and negatives?

Quote from: DadaOrwell on July 13, 2006, 09:56 PM NHFT
Is there a way you can call up a person's total positives and negatives?

AFAIK, no. Unless I missed one, all of the places the karma is rendered for a non-administrator it follows the configured format (the admin gets applauds and smites explicitly in the user's profile).

Thanks to d_goddard for the kind words, which I somehow missed earlier. I am going to blame my lowered reading comprehension on being in the middle of a 40-page summary paper, a 10K-line proof-of-concept for another paper, and six Linux servers. Sleep? Who needs it... As soon as I wrap some of that up I plan to start ticking off open Drupal issues and anything in particular that gets passed my way. Once I have banked a little credibility we'll see about the big stuff.

Chris

Quote from: DadaOrwell on July 13, 2006, 09:56 PM NHFT
I never realized how much I liked the old way of karma (+xx, -xx)  until we switched away from it!

A-men, bro.
Karma for you, for thinking like me! (be afraid: that's the second time I've said that tonight)

Quote from: Minsk on July 13, 2006, 11:16 PM NHFT
Sleep? Who needs it...

Ahhhh yes, college days. The bliss before a spouse, and then a child, eat into your productive time.
How I miss college! :D :P :D

Most of my lack of time in college was self-inflicted: I studied Chem Eng, thinking I'd actually use it someday. Pfffft....

Smite to Denis for that anti-family comment.

Cathleen

Quote from: katdillon on July 01, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT
I kinda like the old way better, too.  Just thought people might be interested in seeing the totals.

Should I change "smite" to "bitchslap"?

Yes, yes, and yes!

God Bless you people for having such a cool forum!

Quote from: maineiac on August 16, 2006, 10:56 AM NHFT
God Bless you people for having such a cool forum!

Welcome aboard! :)

P.S. I just bitchslapped you for being a selfdescribed non-voter ;D

Quote from: d_goddard on August 16, 2006, 11:37 AM NHFT

Quote from: maineiac on August 16, 2006, 10:56 AM NHFT
God Bless you people for having such a cool forum!

Welcome aboard! :)

P.S. I just bitchslapped you for being a selfdescribed non-voter ;D

Sorry. I didn't vote!

(You mean in general, or in this poll?)

Quote from: maineiac on August 16, 2006, 09:58 PM NHFT

Quote from: d_goddard on August 16, 2006, 11:37 AM NHFT

Quote from: maineiac on August 16, 2006, 10:56 AM NHFT
God Bless you people for having such a cool forum!

Welcome aboard! :)

P.S. I just bitchslapped you for being a selfdescribed non-voter ;D

Sorry. I didn't vote!

(You mean in general, or in this poll?)

In general.
In my opinon, not voting for freedom-loving candidates gives silent power to the worst of those who seek it.
But that's a religious war best dealt with on a separate thread  >:D

Quote from: d_goddard on August 17, 2006, 08:45 AM NHFT

Quote from: maineiac on August 16, 2006, 09:58 PM NHFT

Quote from: d_goddard on August 16, 2006, 11:37 AM NHFT

Quote from: maineiac on August 16, 2006, 10:56 AM NHFT
God Bless you people for having such a cool forum!

Welcome aboard! :)

P.S. I just bitchslapped you for being a selfdescribed non-voter ;D

Sorry. I didn't vote!

(You mean in general, or in this poll?)

In general.
In my opinon, not voting for freedom-loving candidates gives silent power to the worst of those who seek it.
But that's a religious war best dealt with on a separate thread  >:D

Er, . . . ah, Dennis, government is not the solution to the problem. Government is the problem!

mkay

Quote from: maineiac on August 17, 2006, 08:56 AM NHFT
Er, . . . ah, Dennis, government is not the solution to the problem. Government is the problem!

mkay

:icon_thumleft: Hey maineiac I'm with you on that!  I would be more enthusiastic about voting if the ballots contained a provision for NOTA (none of the above).

Quote from: srqrebel on August 18, 2006, 10:24 AM NHFT

Quote from: maineiac on August 17, 2006, 08:56 AM NHFT
Er, . . . ah, Dennis, government is not the solution to the problem. Government is the problem!

mkay

:icon_thumleft: Hey maineiac I'm with you on that!

Nice!

Hey, I made Dennis change his sig line!

:icon_pirat:

Quote from: maineiac on August 18, 2006, 10:38 AM NHFT
Hey, I made Dennis change his sig line!

Not too far from the truth.
I'd say the honest truth is that listening to Free Talk Live for the past year made me realize that Mr. Reagan wasn't walking what he was talking.
Plus, I'm on the NHLA Board now, and I believe the NHLA needs more advertising to win hearts and minds of pro-Freedom people, ESPECIALLY here in NH.

Your comment was the catalyst that made me look at my .sig (I hadn't really noticed it for months) and use it more constructively.

how about insted of numbers we use a face
And the better the karma the better the face   --  >:D  >:(  :'(  ???  :-[  :(  :-X  :o  - 8)+ :P  :-\  :)  ;)  ^-^  :icon_pirat:  :blush: ++

Quote from: PinoX7 on October 11, 2006, 01:03 AM NHFT
how about insted of numbers we use a face

You're going to run out of faces pretty quickly. I think the current +/- swing is around 800 points.

Kevin

Oh, there's a massive collection of extra faces, all the way from :violent5: to :sunny: to :neener:

How about going to the +/- display for a while? I think it would be more informative . . . and interesting!

So, is that a "NO"?

I'll leave it that way til next week.

-6? All right, which one of you did that?

Quote from: Kat Kanning on October 31, 2006, 12:41 PM NHFT
I'll leave it that way til next week.

I like it this way (+/-) and would be happy to see it stay more than 1 wk

Quote from: Kat Kanning on July 01, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT
I kinda like the old way better, too.  Just thought people might be interested in seeing the totals.

Should I change "smite" to "bitchslap"?

you should have a way for people to see who is smiting them.  I'd like to tell the person who smites everything I post that true karma will face them one day.

lol but it's cute, I hope to have the worst karma in the room. . . if I don't already.

Quote from: TEBON on December 31, 2006, 12:13 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on July 01, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT
I kinda like the old way better, too.  Just thought people might be interested in seeing the totals.

Should I change "smite" to "bitchslap"?

you should have a way for people to see who is smiting them.  I'd like to tell the person who smites everything I post that true karma will face them one day.

lol but it's cute, I hope to have the worst karma in the room. . . if I don't already.

Around here the usual way to get yourself smitten (I looked it up!!) is to post something blatantly anti-freedom, encouraging totalitarian dictators, and the like.

The other way is to be a total jerk, but we don't have too many of those.

Quote from: TEBON on December 31, 2006, 12:13 PM NHFT
lol but it's cute, I hope to have the worst karma in the room. . . if I don't already.

You're a looooong way from first (last?) place.

Quote from: KBCraig on December 31, 2006, 05:58 PM NHFT

Quote from: TEBON on December 31, 2006, 12:13 PM NHFT
lol but it's cute, I hope to have the worst karma in the room. . . if I don't already.

You're a looooong way from first (last?) place.

how about unintentionally worst?  My mom always said I couldn't do anything right.