Time is running short on the First 1000 pledge, so I've put up an article strongly encouraging people to sign the First 1000 and come home to New Hampshire as soon as possible!
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/12/13/save-liberty-before-america-finally-destroys-it/
Good article, error. You earned my vote for the day. ;)
I'd sign it again... but that would be so dishonest. I'm here. I've signed! :-X
And now we're at 666 signers, which demonstrates two truths:
One, we are two-thirds of our way there...
and two, free staters are the devil!
Quote from: Rocketman on December 13, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
And now were at 666 signers, which demonstrates two truths:
One, we are two-thirds of our way there...
and two, free staters are the devil!
\m/ >.< \m/ yeaaaaahhh 666 >:D :icon_pirat: ???
just kidding :p
I signed it...wish I could get my wife to do the same
Just think, my whole family would be 7
*sigh*
Quote from: Rocketman on December 13, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
And now were at 666 signers,
So, Tunga (http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?action=profile;u=428) signed up, eh? ;D
I can't believe you guys don't care enough to cheat. And now it is almost too late. :'(
Fake it till you make it. :P
Quote from: money dollars on December 13, 2006, 12:50 PM NHFT
I can't believe you guys don't care enough to cheat. And now it is almost too late. :'(
Fake it till you make it. :P
Are you still only signed up the one time?
Quote from: money dollars on December 13, 2006, 12:50 PM NHFT
I can't believe you guys don't care enough to cheat. And now it is almost too late. :'(
Fake it till you make it. :P
Yeah, I'm a little surprised someone hasn't taken this route yet. It's not like pledgebank is hard to cheat with.
Damn you libertarians and your insane adherence to principle! :D
Yeah 333 to go in 20 days. I just hope that there were some people holding off until the end to sign.
Any last minute strategy ideas? Eleventh hour calling fiestas or maybe a heavy targeting of posts on F1K at places like Slashdot, hammer of truth, state LP blogs?
First 1000 is an important step forward. What should we do?
It's too bad I'm not supposed to sign it, cause I would. If it gets down to 999 people on 12/31, I'd slap my signature up there.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on December 13, 2006, 09:46 PM NHFT
Yeah 333 to go in 20 days. I just hope that there were some people holding off until the end to sign.
Any last minute strategy ideas? Eleventh hour calling fiestas or maybe a heavy targeting of posts on F1K at places like Slashdot, hammer of truth, state LP blogs?
First 1000 is an important step forward. What should we do?
It's too bad I'm not supposed to sign it, cause I would. If it gets down to 999 people on 12/31, I'd slap my signature up there.
I know that there are at least 3 wrong names on there.
I also know that there are 9 spouses on there... I don't think that that all were 'fixed'.
I know 3 people who said that they will sign if it reaches 900.
We need to take the things that we can learn from this.
1. I bet by EOY 2008 the counter WILL say 1000 people in NH.
2. Many FSPers are lazy.
3. The calling people (along with other efforts) we need to take what we learned and us that in other areas.
I know of at least one person whose name was added on there by her boyfriend at the time.
QuoteDamn you libertarians and your insane adherence to principle!
Nothing to do with principle. THe goal of the thing is to get 1,000 FSP members to move to NH so we can get things kicking even more. Even better, it's to encourage those who have signed in the FSP but not moved to MOVE. The goal
isn't to get 1000 signatures regardless. The goal is to get 1,000 actual human beings who will move to NH.
Truth to tell, even though it gave us a good boost, it seems silly to have already counted those who moved before the pledge was started. We know they're here. What we want is thousand movers in addition to them.
I'd be happy if one third of those who have signed did actually move. Talking is the easy part, as they say.
Quote from: Rochelle on December 13, 2006, 10:49 PM NHFT
Truth to tell, even though it gave us a good boost, it seems silly to have already counted those who moved before the pledge was started. We know they're here. What we want is thousand movers in addition to them.
We didn't count the NHers who were here before 10/1/03. We only counted the people who moved (if they signed) since the vote.
I'm moving even if NOBODY else does.
Liberty is just too important.
Quote from: error on December 13, 2006, 11:01 PM NHFT
I'm moving even if NOBODY else does.
Liberty is just too important.
;D
I hear that... I decided to move about 10 minutes after I found out about the FSP..... even though I didn't join for another 6 months... I did move within a year of hearing about it.
Quote from: error on December 13, 2006, 11:01 PM NHFT
I'm moving even if NOBODY else does.
Liberty is just too important.
I don't think you are going to be alone. Every time I hear about a protest, or any other pro liberty item coming from NH I seriously think about saying F*** this state load up my car and drive to the shire.
Quote from: slim on December 14, 2006, 04:48 AM NHFT
I don't think you are going to be alone. Every time I hear about a protest, or any other pro liberty item coming from NH I seriously think about saying F*** this state load up my car and drive to the shire.
Oh, I think the same thing every day when I read through the news. But I really don't want to skip out on my lease. If it weren't for that, I'd already be there.
I spent some time last night in San Francisco. There was a big convention of geologists and geophysicists going on at the Moscone Center. Those disciplines tend to attract the "ponytail and beard" scientists with libertarian leanings.
I passed out about 50 F1K flyers to interested freethinking scientists.
I also passed out about 50 FTL flyers to people unrelated to the convention -- anyone who was outside smoking. I just walk up to them and say, "it ain't easy being a smoker in California!" and 95% of them agree instantly ... so I hand 'em an FTL flyer. Once of them was a fireman taking a break in front of the fire truck. Hmmm... Fire Brigade, anyone? :)
If you wanted to be less than honest and manufacture fake F1K signers, you'll find this site useful:
http://dodgeit.com
301 to go with 14 days left.
Tons of people signed up today.... and many will probably sign up tomorrow and Monday.
I am guessing that the most recent mailing probably gave a big boost.
Will we make it to 1000?
Maybe... we need a 'Christmas Miracle'.
I think that next weekend and the one after will be 'slow'.
Likewise slim and error. I so wanted to move after both 05' and 06' porkfests. Lease wasn't up, and I didn't have any money. NH leads the liberty momement in the US.
Quote from: Dreepa on December 13, 2006, 11:03 PM NHFT
Quote from: error on December 13, 2006, 11:01 PM NHFT
I'm moving even if NOBODY else does.
Liberty is just too important.
;D
I hear that... I decided to move about 10 minutes after I found out about the FSP..... even though I didn't join for another 6 months... I did move within a year of hearing about it.
Dreep-
this is the definition of a "glasseater"...
Quote from: money dollars on December 13, 2006, 12:50 PM NHFT
I can't believe you guys don't care enough to cheat. And now it is almost too late. :'(
Fake it till you make it. :P
"If you're not cheating you're not trying"
I don't have any money, (OK, I do, but not as much as I'd like) but I'm moving anyway! Don't let that stop you.
Receiving their First 1000 mailing made me renew my determination to not help the FSP anymore.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 17, 2006, 03:01 AM NHFT
Receiving their First 1000 mailing made me renew my determination to not help the FSP anymore.
What did they mail out? I never got any such mailing.
The house where I live got 4 of them :D Ironically enough, the mailing also asked for money. I'm tempted to write back and say, hey, you know, you could have just written ONE letter for all 4 of us once you realized the address was the same....
I shudder to think of what our mailman thinks of our house now ;)
Quote from: error on December 17, 2006, 03:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 17, 2006, 03:01 AM NHFT
Receiving their First 1000 mailing made me renew my determination to not help the FSP anymore.
What did they mail out? I never got any such mailing.
Mailing to : get F1k movers
ask for $
promote Liberty Forum.
Check your mail on Monday or Tuesday. It just went out.
Quote from: Rochelle on December 17, 2006, 04:44 AM NHFT
I'm tempted to write back and say, hey, you know, you could have just written ONE letter for all 4 of us once you realized the address was the same....
Many people have mentioned this.
Also it was suggested that people in NH not get the mailing (or people known on the F1K)... but I was told that it was more expensive/ time consuming to filter out then it was to mail to all.
I am that fiscally conservative as well. :D
Quote from: Dreepa on December 16, 2006, 11:08 PM NHFT
301 to go with 14 days left.
Tons of people signed up today.... and many will probably sign up tomorrow and Monday.
I am guessing that the most recent mailing probably gave a big boost.
Will we make it to 1000?
Maybe... we need a 'Christmas Miracle'.
I think that next weekend and the one after will be 'slow'.
Also Friday did a bunch of work inputing some stuff from the phone calls and the husband and wife double signups.
13 days... 20 a day.... go sign up!
*bump*
It has slowed a little today. There are more out there just itching to sign and don't know where to find it...
You find it here, of course:
http://pledgebank.com/first1000
Quote from: shyfrog on December 19, 2006, 01:49 PM NHFT
*bump*
It has slowed a little today. There are more out there just itching to sign and don't know where to find it...
Just had a huge bump of about 8-9 signers since my lunch hour.
One per hour for the rest of the year needed.
Wow how about those numbers today!!!!!!!! ;D ;D
One more to get to 800.
How do I get myself (fisher) removed from the first 1000 pledge? :P
Email Ian? ;)
Quote from: money dollars on December 20, 2006, 01:55 PM NHFT
How do I get myself (fisher) removed from the first 1000 pledge? :P
Email Ian? ;)
You didn't read the fine print you can never be removed from the pledge also you are supposed to send Ian 1/4 of your gross earnings and allow him to name any of your offspring. >:D
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 16, 2006, 10:25 PM NHFT
If you wanted to be less than honest and manufacture fake F1K signers, you'll find this site useful:
http://dodgeit.com
Libety is too important to have principles get in the way.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 16, 2006, 10:25 PM NHFT
If you wanted to be less than honest and manufacture fake F1K signers, you'll find this site useful:
http://dodgeit.com
www.trashonthe.net offers the same service.
Quote from: money dollars on December 20, 2006, 01:55 PM NHFT
How do I get myself (fisher) removed from the first 1000 pledge? :P
Email Ian? ;)
You could probably email the pledgebank team.
Quote from: money dollars on December 20, 2006, 01:55 PM NHFT
How do I get myself (fisher) removed from the first 1000 pledge? :P
Email Ian? ;)
What? You're leaving New Hampshire?!
Can I sign for minors under my stewardship? >:D
http://www.pledgebank.com/last200
lol :P
The last 25 or so signatures were just deleted by someone, we're back to 789... :-\
Oh, surely, nobody would actually CHEAT!
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on December 20, 2006, 05:04 PM NHFT
The last 25 or so signatures were just deleted by someone, we're back to 789... :-\
Not sure how that could have happened. There's no way to remove signatures that I can see...
Yeah, you'd think they'd let us decide which signups are shady, rather than decide for us.
I was asking them about what could be done to check for questonable signups. Then that happened.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on December 20, 2006, 07:43 PM NHFT
I was asking them about what could be done to check for questonable signups. Then that happened.
So you'd rather see the first 1000 fail and have 0 people move, than have the last 200 signups be fake and have 800 people move?
Quote from: Jon Maltz on December 20, 2006, 07:43 PM NHFT
I was asking them about what could be done to check for questonable signups. Then that happened.
Karma to you. I don't want to be joining a band of cheaters. I haven't been a libertarian for more than 30 years because I believe in winning by any means. That's the province of democrats, republicans, communists, nazis, and the other present and former ruling political parties of the world.
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on December 20, 2006, 08:48 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on December 20, 2006, 07:43 PM NHFT
I was asking them about what could be done to check for questonable signups. Then that happened.
So you'd rather see the first 1000 fail and have 0 people move, than have the last 200 signups be fake and have 800 people move?
Yes, but in reality, several hundred will move by 2008 regardless.
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on December 20, 2006, 08:48 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on December 20, 2006, 07:43 PM NHFT
I was asking them about what could be done to check for questonable signups. Then that happened.
So you'd rather see the first 1000 fail and have 0 people move, than have the last 200 signups be fake and have 800 people move?
It'd be a violation of the F1K pledge. The Pledge says that I'll move up if 999 others agree to move up. If you fake 200 people, then the Pledge isn't really being fulfilled. Plus, you'd be a liar. Ends don't justify means -- that's statist thinking.
Well, I've signed for 3 (myself, my wife, and my 16 yr old who is in college).
I figure the other four children are minors and won't be of voting age by 2008 anyway.
But, if I raise them in New Hampshire using libertarian/freedom values, then they may also become a positive influence on the movement.
Of course, some kids end up following a totally different path than you intended or hoped for...
Quote from: shyfrog on December 20, 2006, 09:22 PM NHFT
Of course, some kids end up following a totally different path than you intended or hoped for...
Haha, I'm evidence of that -- statist parents make anarchist baby. I think signing the F1K on behalf of each member of your family is a bit different than making up people at fake e-mail addresses . . . .
BTW, your 16-year-old is in college? Wow! What's he/she want to do?
We homeschool all our kids until they decide they want to stay homeschooled or try something else.
He decided to go to public school for a particular program our jr. high offered called "4 hour science". He ended up being skipped forward a grade and put into AP classes. He spent a good 60% of his school day out in the field studying geology, biology, and other physical sciences.
He was then invited to a brand new charter high school program that had a building on the local college campus and he will be graduating this next semester with an Associates in Chemistry (minoring in Japanese) a month before he gets his HS diploma AND a couple months before he turns 17.
He's not sure what he wants to do in the long run, but he knows it has something to do with chemical engineering. He also wants to teach English in Japan.
Quote from: money dollars on December 20, 2006, 04:13 PM NHFT
http://www.pledgebank.com/last200
Damn you Money Dollars, I expected a cutting parody like the Free Lunch Project! Lazy bastard. I shake my monkey-paw at you ferociously. If you wrote one and it got deleted, my apologies.
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on December 20, 2006, 08:48 PM NHFT
So you'd rather see the first 1000 fail and have 0 people move, than have the last 200 signups be fake and have 800 people move?
It's not so all-or-nothing. There's no way 800 people would move based on a known-fraudulent pledge (and I have a feeling most first100ers aren't stupid ;)) and there are people like Ian who moved/would move regardless of the number achieved. Better to keep the integrity of the pledge and count on those of us who's line of thinking is like this:
"Subtracting out bullshit-pledgers, about 700 people are going based on the "1000 pledge" and very few of those are going to cheese out if the official number comes up 200 short."
So I figure that those who signed the pledge and are serious about it, will say "close enough" and move anyway.
Technically, the pledge says " "I will move to New Hampshire by 12/31/2008 where I will work to bring about a society in which government?s maximum role is protecting life, liberty, and property
but only if 999 other liberty minded individuals will too." ..meaning that if the 1000 number is not met, we have pledged to
not move to New Hampshire by the end of 2008. Well if the pledge bars me from moving in that timeframe, I'm sorry to say that I may have to break it ;) Sure my wife announced her pregnancy, which is a factor that threatened to keep us in compliance with the pledge, but I think I will break it anyway. :coffee: ;D
Wow, very cool, good for him.
Quote from: shyfrog on December 20, 2006, 09:44 PM NHFT
He's not sure what he wants to do in the long run, but he knows it has something to do with chemical engineering. He also wants to teach English in Japan.
I've got a friend who is teaching English in Japan. He really likes it.
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 10:21 PM NHFT
"Subtracting out bullshit-pledgers, about 700 people are going based on the "1000 pledge" and very few of those are going to cheese out if the official number comes up 200 short."
If I got the fuzzy math right, that would mean ~500 people actually move.
Considering that there are less than 500 free-staters now, and only 200 of them are early-movers, that means a DOUBLING in the number of free-staters! All I can say to that is, holy f---ing sh!+, we can get a HELL of a lot done with TWICE AS MANY OF US!!
Quote from: d_goddard on December 20, 2006, 10:51 PM NHFT
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 10:21 PM NHFT
"Subtracting out bullshit-pledgers, about 700 people are going based on the "1000 pledge" and very few of those are going to cheese out if the official number comes up 200 short."
If I got the fuzzy math right, that would mean ~500 people actually move.
Considering that there are less than 500 free-staters now, and only 200 of them are early-movers, that means a DOUBLING in the number of free-staters! All I can say to that is, holy f---ing sh!+, we can get a HELL of a lot done with TWICE AS MANY OF US!!
If they movers are active.....
Quote from: d_goddard on December 20, 2006, 10:51 PM NHFT
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 10:21 PM NHFT
"Subtracting out bullshit-pledgers, about 700 people are going based on the "1000 pledge" and very few of those are going to cheese out if the official number comes up 200 short."
If I got the fuzzy math right, that would mean ~500 people actually move.
Considering that there are less than 500 free-staters now, and only 200 of them are early-movers, that means a DOUBLING in the number of free-staters! All I can say to that is, holy f---ing sh!+, we can get a HELL of a lot done with TWICE AS MANY OF US!!
That's what I'm screaming, Denis. 1000 activists by 2008 would flood the state, and I hope we get that many by 2008, but 500 activists by 2008 would be a very powerful river. Especially with all the NH natives who are climbing on board the freedom movement...
Denis, that sounds about right.. plus there will be a few FSPers that will move in that timeframe who never bothered with the 1st 1000 pledge.
Plus the NH natives that wake up as like-minded people begin to move in.. good point Rocketman. BTW, I'm also a homebrewer. We'll have to have a brew-off when I get there. :icon_pirat: I'll have to give you some competition, but for now I envy you. Or as KBCraig says, you suck!
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 11:14 PM NHFT
I'll have to give you some competition, but for now I envy you. Or as KBCraig says, you suck!
Should I start a thread on stealing intellectual property? >:D
Kevin
Quote from: error on December 20, 2006, 04:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: Braddogg on December 20, 2006, 04:32 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on December 20, 2006, 04:13 PM NHFT
http://www.pledgebank.com/last200
:biglaugh:
Sorry, something's gone wrong?
It is back up...for now. :'(
All I had to do was re-visit the link from the confirmation email to re-create the pledge, and my first signer(fisher) had to do the same to re-pledge. A troll friendly system ;)
Good one ;D Now if we can just get TWO people to sign your pledge 10 times apiece, that will complete the whole chain reaction and 800 people will move to NH! Come on you guys, time is running out.
Also - you might want to adjust your image on moneydollars.com. I was thinking "Hmm, there's a man about to get socked in the eye with his own scope. Hopefully the lense cap will cushion the blow." ;)
Quote from: Rocketman on December 20, 2006, 10:57 PM NHFT
Especially with all the NH natives who are climbing on board the freedom movement...
:icon_dance: :thumbsup:
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 11:14 PM NHFT
Denis, that sounds about right.. plus there will be a few FSPers that will move in that timeframe who never bothered with the 1st 1000 pledge.
Plus the NH natives that wake up as like-minded people begin to move in.. good point Rocketman. BTW, I'm also a homebrewer. We'll have to have a brew-off when I get there. :icon_pirat: I'll have to give you some competition, but for now I envy you. Or as KBCraig says, you suck!
I was planning on leaving NH for Grad school, but I have decided to stay because of the FSP.
I'll be moving to Florida this sunday, and if all works out I should be making the move back to NH 5 days later. Can I sign?
yup
and join the FSP at the same time.
Quote from: earthhaven on December 21, 2006, 03:38 PM NHFT
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 11:14 PM NHFT
Denis, that sounds about right.. plus there will be a few FSPers that will move in that timeframe who never bothered with the 1st 1000 pledge.
Plus the NH natives that wake up as like-minded people begin to move in.. good point Rocketman. BTW, I'm also a homebrewer. We'll have to have a brew-off when I get there. :icon_pirat: I'll have to give you some competition, but for now I envy you. Or as KBCraig says, you suck!
I was planning on leaving NH for Grad school, but I have decided to stay because of the FSP.
I'll be moving to Florida this sunday, and if all works out I should be making the move back to NH 5 days later. Can I sign?
What do you want to study, earthhaven?
I want to start homebrewing after I leave the dorms (in about 6 months) . . . hopefully after my third or fourth batch I'll be ready to enter the competition.
I'm a psychology major which is a useless degree without graduate school. Homebrew is a lot of fun. My brother used to do it before he turned 21. For us, it was kind of like moon shine :icon_pirat:.
Quote from: earthhaven on December 22, 2006, 06:16 AM NHFT
I'm a psychology major which is a useless degree without graduate school. Homebrew is a lot of fun. My brother used to do it before he turned 21. For us, it was kind of like moon shine :icon_pirat:.
Yeah, most humanities/social science degrees are pretty useless without a grad school degree. I plan on framing my history degree in May, putting it on the wall, and finding a job in newspapers or convenience stores or something :-[ Do you want to go into therapy, or research, or teaching, or . . . ?
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 11:14 PM NHFT
Denis, that sounds about right.. plus there will be a few FSPers that will move in that timeframe who never bothered with the 1st 1000 pledge.
Plus the NH natives that wake up as like-minded people begin to move in.. good point Rocketman. BTW, I'm also a homebrewer. We'll have to have a brew-off when I get there. :icon_pirat: I'll have to give you some competition, but for now I envy you. Or as KBCraig says, you suck!
Whaddya mean "NH natives that wake up as like-minded people begin to move in"...some of us natives were born wide eyed awake! Where have YOU guys been? ;)
Quote from: malevil on December 22, 2006, 06:15 PM NHFT
Quote from: Barterer on December 20, 2006, 11:14 PM NHFT
Denis, that sounds about right.. plus there will be a few FSPers that will move in that timeframe who never bothered with the 1st 1000 pledge.
Plus the NH natives that wake up as like-minded people begin to move in.. good point Rocketman. BTW, I'm also a homebrewer. We'll have to have a brew-off when I get there. :icon_pirat: I'll have to give you some competition, but for now I envy you. Or as KBCraig says, you suck!
Whaddya mean "NH natives that wake up as like-minded people begin to move in"...some of us natives were born wide eyed awake! Where have YOU guys been? ;)
:occasion14: Natives Rock!! There is a reason NH won the vote. I've been sayin' "Live Free or Die" since I was born, thirty something years ago, in NH -- wide awake. :blueman:
Indeed, I salute all three groups. Longtime NH activists, FSPers, and those activated as a result of the FSP. <raises glass>
Having received a clean bill of health from my doctor Friday, I have this morning signed the pledge. See you all in a year or two.
By the way, do you suppose there may be a couple hundred people hanging around out there waiting to try to be the 1000th signer?
Maybe, but if they are, they should give up, and simply try to be the next signer.
Quote from: KurtDaBear on December 23, 2006, 10:45 AM NHFT
Having received a clean bill of health from my doctor Friday, I have this morning signed the pledge. See you all in a year or two.
By the way, do you suppose there may be a couple hundred people hanging around out there waiting to try to be the 1000th signer?
The pledge is completed when there is 999 signers the 1000th is not needed. Currently there are 840 signers only 159 needed.
Quote from: KurtDaBear on December 23, 2006, 10:45 AM NHFT
Having received a clean bill of health from my doctor Friday, I have this morning signed the pledge. See you all in a year or two.
By the way, do you suppose there may be a couple hundred people hanging around out there waiting to try to be the 1000th signer?
Great news, Kurt! :)
Quote from: slim on December 23, 2006, 10:53 AM NHFT
Quote from: KurtDaBear on December 23, 2006, 10:45 AM NHFT
Having received a clean bill of health from my doctor Friday, I have this morning signed the pledge. See you all in a year or two.
By the way, do you suppose there may be a couple hundred people hanging around out there waiting to try to be the 1000th signer?
The pledge is completed when there is 999 signers the 1000th is not needed. Currently there are 840 signers only 159 needed.
We ought to be able to get that many in a week from New Year's Resolutions alone.
Why do they keep removing names from the pledge? Who cares if there's a few fake names up there?
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 23, 2006, 05:17 PM NHFT
Why do they keep removing names from the pledge? Who cares if there's a few fake names up there?
The FSP leadership has always done that. ::)
I never would have thought they would sabotage their own pledge. ::)
Quote from: Braddogg on December 22, 2006, 06:06 PM NHFT
Quote from: earthhaven on December 22, 2006, 06:16 AM NHFT
I'm a psychology major which is a useless degree without graduate school. Homebrew is a lot of fun. My brother used to do it before he turned 21. For us, it was kind of like moon shine :icon_pirat:.
Yeah, most humanities/social science degrees are pretty useless without a grad school degree. I plan on framing my history degree in May, putting it on the wall, and finding a job in newspapers or convenience stores or something :-[ Do you want to go into therapy, or research, or teaching, or . . . ?
I started out as a history major. My end goal is to teach at college. All my teachers were liberals. Colleges need more than one point of view.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 16, 2006, 10:25 PM NHFT
If you wanted to be less than honest and manufacture fake F1K signers, you'll find this site useful:
http://dodgeit.com
In the years since I signed up for the FSP I have often been frustrated by childishness and infighting. However, I could understand that amongst passionate and committed people and have never felt I could not TRUST them. Now I find that a few of you believe that fraud targeted at the very people you hope to be your allies and friends is a virtue. I will now have to determine who each of you is (beyond these profile names...I've never come onto this site before) in order to protect myself (and my wallet) from you. If dishonesty comes so easy to you in this, I doubt you can be trusted in any way.
Gee...maybe I shouldn't sign my real name, but I'll take the chance.
Tim Bauman
Legitimate F1k Pledger
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 23, 2006, 05:17 PM NHFT
Why do they keep removing names from the pledge? Who cares if there's a few fake names up there?
I do.
Legitimate FSP Pledger
Quote from: timb2112 on December 23, 2006, 07:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 16, 2006, 10:25 PM NHFT
If you wanted to be less than honest and manufacture fake F1K signers, you'll find this site useful:
http://dodgeit.com
In the years since I signed up for the FSP I have often been frustrated by childishness and infighting. However, I could understand that amongst passionate and committed people and have never felt I could not TRUST them. Now I find that a few of you believe that fraud targeted at the very people you hope to be your allies and friends is a virtue. I will now have to determine who each of you is (beyond these profile names...I've never come onto this site before) in order to protect myself (and my wallet) from you. If dishonesty comes so easy to you in this, I doubt you can be trusted in any way.
Gee...maybe I shouldn't sign my real name, but I'll take the chance.
Tim Bauman
Legitimate F1k Pledger
I understand your thoughts. Sometimes it is hard to tell if someone is joking or serious via a post. I have to say that there are many, many people on this board that are trustworthy.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 23, 2006, 05:51 PM NHFT
I never would have thought they would sabotage their own pledge. ::)
Ian, you are clueless. YOU are the one who has sabotaged this. Though it may come as a complete shock to you, not everyone finds deception a virtue. Geez at least where I live now I can trust my friends. I guess I'll have to watch my back in NH.
Castle_chaser, thanks for your post while I typed this. Certainly, I did not intend to suggest that everyone on this board is dishonest....that would be illogical. There seem to be a few with moral compasses so off, that they assume everyone is as dishonest as they are and thus do not hide themselves.
I must say that FTL_Ian has probably brought in a couple hundred pledgers via his show, so he's definitely done his part. The Plegde's main idea is to give the FSP a new boost. Expediency isn't so bad to get to the next level. Not to mention the Pledge isn't legally binding, so it's up to the signers to fulfill their respective commitments.
Quote from: timb2112 on December 23, 2006, 07:58 PM NHFT
Ian, you are clueless. YOU are the one who has sabotaged this. Though it may come as a complete shock to you, not everyone finds deception a virtue. Geez at least where I live now I can trust my friends. I guess I'll have to watch my back in NH.
Oh boo hoo. So I publicly revealed one of the myriad of ways to cheat pledgebank, and that makes me a clueless saboteur?
Fact: Pledgebank is flawed. Take your complaints up with them or the FSP leadership for using their service instead of crafting their own.
The pledgebank system is being exploited by certain parties who believe the success of F1K is more important than total accuracy of signers. Considering there's no way to verify ANY signatures on the F1K, it makes more sense for it to succeed than for it to fail. I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once. These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed. They are people already in NH who want to see more people here sooner rather than later. If F1K succeeds, that will happen. If it fails, there will be a slight setback.
I'm a legitimate signer, early mover, and Golden Porcupine. I can tell you a lot of trustworthy people feel the same way I do.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 23, 2006, 09:26 PM NHFT
I'm a legitimate signer, early mover, and Golden Porcupine. I can tell you a lot of trustworthy people feel the same way I do.
Not to mention the biggest recruiter of the FSP.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 23, 2006, 09:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: timb2112 on December 23, 2006, 07:58 PM NHFT
Ian, you are clueless. YOU are the one who has sabotaged this. Though it may come as a complete shock to you, not everyone finds deception a virtue. Geez at least where I live now I can trust my friends. I guess I'll have to watch my back in NH.
Oh boo hoo. So I publicly revealed one of the myriad of ways to cheat pledgebank, and that makes me a clueless saboteur?
Fact: Pledgebank is flawed. Take your complaints up with them or the FSP leadership for using their service instead of crafting their own.
The pledgebank system is being exploited by certain parties who believe the success of F1K is more important than total accuracy of signers. Considering there's no way to verify ANY signatures on the F1K, it makes more sense for it to succeed than for it to fail. I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once. These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed. They are people already in NH who want to see more people here sooner rather than later. If F1K succeeds, that will happen. If it fails, there will be a slight setback.
I'm a legitimate signer, early mover, and Golden Porcupine. I can tell you a lot of trustworthy people feel the same way I do.
None of this leads to the conclusion that the end (getting more people to move) justifies the means (misleading prospective movers). I think fudging the number is foolish and makes us look desperate, when the qualities we
should be projecting are basic integrity and simple, unpretentious confidence in the movement we are building.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 23, 2006, 09:26 PM NHFT
The pledgebank system is being exploited by certain parties who believe the success of F1K is more important than total accuracy of signers. Considering there's no way to verify ANY signatures on the F1K, it makes more sense for it to succeed than for it to fail. I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once. These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed. They are people already in NH who want to see more people here sooner rather than later. If F1K succeeds, that will happen. If it fails, there will be a slight setback.
Ian, the pledge was set up with the phrase "as long as." That the F1K is not legally binding is irrelevant. If you and the FSP High Command wanted to set up a pledgebank saying "I'm moving up to NH by the end of 2008," then y'all should have. The F1K pledge as stands says that the signers will move "as long as" 999 other people agree to do the same. It is pattently dishonest to forge signatures, and I'm not sure how you can disagree with that statement.
Quote from: Rocketman on December 23, 2006, 11:16 PM NHFT
None of this leads to the conclusion that the end (getting more people to move) justifies the means (misleading prospective movers). I think fudging the number is foolish and makes us look desperate, when the qualities we should be projecting are basic integrity and simple, unpretentious confidence in the movement we are building.
How does it make "us" look desperate? There are individuals out there fudging a few signups. I'm not included, you're not included.
If we wanted integrity, pledgebank was not a good choice. That has been my point all along. Some have been angry that I pointed it out. ::)
This thread is illustrative of the inherent difficulties with collectives, eh?
Quote from: Braddogg on December 23, 2006, 11:33 PM NHFT
Ian, the pledge was set up with the phrase "as long as." That the F1K is not legally binding is irrelevant. If you and the FSP High Command wanted to set up a pledgebank saying "I'm moving up to NH by the end of 2008," then y'all should have. The F1K pledge as stands says that the signers will move "as long as" 999 other people agree to do the same.
I know what it says. For the record, I did not come up with the pledge idea. I was simply approached by the FSP and asked to be the initial signer and "sponsor".
QuoteIt is pattently dishonest to forge signatures, and I'm not sure how you can disagree with that statement.
Did I at any point disagree with that statement? I've only been pointing out facts. I've not encouraged others to cheat, but as the system is easily manipulated - some people have. What they are doing is certainly dishonest. I just think auditing the signers on a system rampant with fraud is counter-intuitive.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 23, 2006, 11:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: Braddogg on December 23, 2006, 11:33 PM NHFT
Ian, the pledge was set up with the phrase "as long as." That the F1K is not legally binding is irrelevant. If you and the FSP High Command wanted to set up a pledgebank saying "I'm moving up to NH by the end of 2008," then y'all should have. The F1K pledge as stands says that the signers will move "as long as" 999 other people agree to do the same.
I know what it says. For the record, I did not come up with the pledge idea. I was simply approached by the FSP and asked to be the initial signer and "sponsor".
Thanks for the correction; I think I remember you saying that before, and I'm sorry if I gave the impression that the pledge was your design. It is, of course, something you support and have been made figurehead of.
Quote
I've not encouraged others to cheat, but as the system is easily manipulated - some people have. What they are doing is certainly dishonest. I just think auditing the signers on a system rampant with fraud is counter-intuitive.
You've encouraged them by calling it moral to do so. You weren't just acknowledging facts, you were commending actions (and attacking the actions the FSP High Command were making to make it a more honest system). You also called people doing dishonest things trustworthy ("I happen to know a few individuals who have signed up more than once. These are very trustworthy individuals, they just want the F1K to succeed."). How many dishonest things must a person do before they are no longer trustworthy?
Quote from: timb2112 on December 23, 2006, 07:58 PM NHFT
Castle_chaser, thanks for your post while I typed this. Certainly, I did not intend to suggest that everyone on this board is dishonest....that would be illogical. There seem to be a few with moral compasses so off, that they assume everyone is as dishonest as they are and thus do not hide themselves.
Of course, I'm sure you didn't intend that. I just hope that when you do come to NH you will feel comfortable and glad to be here. I can imagine that it would not be fun to move if you felt like you had to "watch your back". I have always felt the opposite, only honest friendships, and I had to share that with you.
One of the wonderful things I have noticed about the FSP is that many of the early movers have become like family. Everyone I have come in contact with through the FSP has been so kind. I just had to be sure that you knew that.
~Kate
Wow went to check the pledge stats and was blown away... what the hell is going on?
You're right that they cannot really verify any name on the list 100% so how do they decide that some names are fake? Are people signing up as Ben Dover or something?
I must be a latecomer to this thread.
Why add fake names?
The system is not perfect, but why?
....btw did I remember to sign up Shorty? He can move to The Shire ..... once we create it. :)
I think el presidente's pledge is gone. I liked it. I can't remember why.
Quote from: KurtDaBear on December 23, 2006, 10:45 AM NHFT
By the way, do you suppose there may be a couple hundred people hanging around out there waiting to try to be the 1000th signer?
I met one yesterday. Maybe he doesn't want to sign "only if 999 others" until there are 999.
Jim Johnson has tried to sign up a couple times and never wound up on the list. How many people have thought they signed and didn't get the verification email? That's what happened to Jim the first time. The numbers game is stupid. Pledgebank is very flawed.
Caleb signed someone up that he talked to and it never showed up. There's something wrong with the software, or they're removing legitimate signers.
Ian and Russell, I'd like to draw your attention to these two pages: http://www.pledgebank.com/last200 http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=6400.msg111366#msg111366 I've asked Pledgebank to remove the last200 page due to its fraudulent nature. I don't know if they'll do so or not, but I expect they will. Ian, I realize you didn't actually suggest fraudulently signing people up, but your "if you want to" post concerns me. Do not sign people up fraudulently and please don't encourage others to do so by showing them how. Russell, I'm embarrassed that you'd actually sign the 'last200' pledge. I can imagine a scumbag like Fisher engaging in fraudulent behavior. I'm very disappointed that you would do such a thing. If it was a joke (and I really hope it was), it wasn't in good taste. If the first 1000 pledge is not completed by the end of the month, that will be a disappointment. If it is completed fraudulently, that will be far worse. Libertarians are opposed to fraud. The end doesn't justify the means. If I become aware that the pledge has been completed fraudulently, I'll make a point of 1) informing all of the pledge signers that, while I encourage them to move, they are released from any 'obligation' to do so because of fraud, and 2) publically announcing that Russell agreed to engage in fraudulent activity, and Ian suggested ways for others to engage in fraudulent activity. Mark, I realize you are not directly involved in the above matter, however, I would like to remind you that you are expected to proceed in an honest fashion. You are also expected to make every effort to ensure your calling team does the same. The Free State Project is not interested in participating in or encouraging fraud. I do hope that you'll be able to call enough people and persuade enough people to sign that we meet our goal. However, it is far more important to me that we achieve any results (even if they're short of the goal) in an honest manner. Thank you all for your attention. V- Got Freedom? Want more? Find out how! Register today for the New Hampshire Liberty Forum http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum ================================================== Varrin Swearingen varrin@sugargroup.net freestateproject.org Liberty in our Lifetime MD-11 First Officer World Airways Drums & Percussion Daniel 12:4 ==================================================
Russell, On Sunday December 24 2006 05:11, you wrote: > I thought his page was a joke. It may have been a joke, but there were probably something to the tune of 70 recent fraudulent sign-ups for the First 1000 pledge, so somebody must have been doing something about it (probably him). > The page is gone, so I > can't remind myself why I thought it was funny and > signed it. It would have been funny if it didn't coincide with actual fraud in the manner described on the page (signing up lots of people for the First 1000 pledge). > Why would pledgebank take down a pledge > even if it was a joke? Because that pledge encouraged actual fraud against another pledge of theirs. > I don't understand how they work. Are they PC like so many others? I have no idea what their level of political correctness is. It seems to me, though, that committing fraud is politically correct. Politicians live on fraud, so opposing fraud can't be all that politically correct, can it? > I have also never understood the whole "only if 1,000,000 other > people will do it" mentality. My objection to that phrase is the word "only". The idea behind a pledge, though, is that it might be worth doing something if many other people will do it, but it might not be worth doing that same thing if too-few other people will do it. I would not have moved to New Hampshire if there were not a reasonable expectation of many other pro-freedom activists moving here. A pledge increases that reasonable expectation *if* it's not fraudulently filled. > I don't see how I am ruining it for the rest you again > for going along with Fisher/El Presidente'/Money > Dollars pledge. If you're signing up people for the First 1000 pledge in a bogus fashion, you're intentionally creating a false sense of expectation among people who are putting their lives on the line to move here. That's fraudulent, dishonest, and very un-friendly to freedom. Right now, there are exactly zero people 'committed' to moving to New Hampshire, but hundreds have already moved. If the First 1000 pledge 'succeeds' on fraud and then few people actually move, that destroys the credibility of any move pledge *and*, along with it, the credibility of the concept of moving for freedom. > We drove him off our forum recently by > being nice to him .... so I signed his pledge. :) Bill > Grennon doesn't like it when you use his real name > either. Troll tips from the most active forum > connected to the Nonviolent Revolution. Yes, driving off trolls is one thing, but the number of people who understand the fisher is a troll and that signing people up fraudulently for the First 1000 pledge is a good way to deal with that problem is very close to zero (it might be one). I know you have a good sense of humor, and I'd like to think I do, too. And if it were only a matter of ribbing Fisher, that would be one thing, but it appears actual fraud was committeed. One or more people were signing the First 1000 pledge multiple times in a short period of time using aliases. The very thing you 'agreed' to do was actually done. Of course, I have no way of knowing if you did it or not (I wouldn't be surprised if Fisher did), but encouraging fraud is not friendly to freedom. V- Got Freedom? Want more? Find out how! Register today for the New Hampshire Liberty Forum http://freestateproject.org/libertyforum ================================================== Varrin Swearingen varrin@sugargroup.net freestateproject.org Liberty in our Lifetime MD-11 First Officer World Airways Drums & Percussion Daniel 12:4 ==================================================
The idea that Russell would sign up people who didn't exist is rediculous.
I thought moneydollars pledge was funny.
Kat reminded me that the last200 pledge was to promise to sign up multiple times for the 1st1000 pledge. I thought that was funny and obviously a joke.
Some people are taking the FSP, the 1st1000, and themselves way too seriously. That is why trolls are attracted and try knock them off their high horses.
Here's what's funny:
Freestateproject.com : 824 signed the First 1000
Pledgebank.com/first1000: 794 signed the First 1000
I get a mailing from the FSP asking for money and asking people to sign the F1000
Then there's a thread stating we won't meet the First 1000 and that FSP needs to rethink strategy
I decide to call more people and get them to sign
I add the F1000 link to several of my sites
I see the numbers go up
Then I see them go down
Then I begin to wonder how many of those fraudulent signers may have been legit?
Then I think about fraud and how it doesn't discriminate
Then I wonder about the trolls
Then I wonder about the FSP itself and the possibility of internal sabotage
Then I laugh
It's all quite hilarious ::)
right hand? left hand? do they know each other?
I have only one question:
Russ, did you discuss with Varrin before publicly posting what appear to have been his private emails to you?
Quote from: Braddogg on December 24, 2006, 12:29 AM NHFT
You've encouraged them by calling it moral to do so.
Can you cite some evidence of me doing so?
QuoteYou also called people doing dishonest things trustworthy. How many dishonest things must a person do before they are no longer trustworthy?
I'm just telling you the truth about how I feel about these people. I would have to say if their dishonest acts harmed others, they would no longer be trustworthy. In this case all they've done is signed the pledge a few times. They did it because they want to see the FSP succeed at the F1K. Is it moral? No. Are they bad people? Nope.
People who lie to the government are dishonest. Is that immoral? Does that make them untrustworthy?
To believe harm would come from a few fake names being on the F1K is absurd. If F1K succeeds and there are 100 fraudulent signers, that means as many as 900 people will move to NH in the next two years. Fact is, the movers will *never* know who on the F1K list actually honored their commitment. So, it's really the concept and symbolism that matters to the signers, because they must inherently know that there's no way to verify the other signers and certainly no way to verify they all actually move.
I would say the individuals who have signed more than once believe the old cliche, "Fake it till you make it". It may not be totally honest what they are doing, but it doesn't make them bad people in my mind, as no one is being harmed.
Russell,
If you're going to copy my emails to you here, at least you could format them so we could all read them correctly... Yeesh, hard to find good help these days...
;)
V-
Quote from: d_goddard on December 24, 2006, 11:20 AM NHFT
I have only one question:
Russ, did you discuss with Varrin before publicly posting what appear to have been his private emails to you?
No
When people threaten to make public my sordid involvement with el presidente .... then I go public.
All mail sent to me should be ready for public consumption.
Quote from: varrin on December 24, 2006, 12:23 PM NHFT
Russell,
If you're going to copy my emails to you here, at least you could format them so we could all read them correctly... Yeesh, hard to find good help these days...
;)
V-
Yea .... only we know where your statements end and mine begin. :)
I probably have no right to butt into this lengthy thread...I'm not a freestater, I'm a NH native and could rightly be called an independent yankee, I'm empathetic to the FSP & libertarian ideals, I don't like to fight and argue, and I should just keep my mouth shut (er, my fingers quiet)...but I'm finding these back & forth postings on the First 1000 pledge on the verge of ridiculous. This arguing reminds me of the fights my kids have prior to being sent to their rooms until they cool down.
A few observations from an outsider looking in, so to speak:
1) One of the libertarian ideals that my son has drilled into me is the importance of personal privacy. After hanging out on this forum for a number of months, I continue to be surprised when some of you write/reveal private emails, or conversations, or real names of posters (whether they are trolls or not, I don't care). It just seems rather hypocritical to me.
2) The whole pledge bank thing seems silly. Maybe I just don't understand it. My son used pledge bank to try and recruit volunteers for his political campaigning. The pledge failed to gather the arbitrary number of volunteers that he'd set. But, everyone that had pledged and more showed up on election days to volunteer their time at the polls. The only redeeming value of pledge bank is that it added about 10 pages worth of search results when you googled his name.
3) If I was considering locating to another state to join folks who shared my political beliefs, I would find all this "in fighting" so immature, unprofessional, and just plain ridiculous, that I would not be able to take the FSP seriously and -- frankly -- couldn't help but think a lot of you are kooks.
Now I know you're not nut cases (well, at least some of you that I've met), but goodness I really think I might have to send some of you to your rooms.
Smite me all you want. I'm living, working, and loving in New Hampshire. You're welcome to join me -- whether it's 10 of you or 10,000 of you. I say get out of your chairs in front of your computers and put your money where your mouth is.
And, I'm going to do just that...bye.
Agreed.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 24, 2006, 11:36 AM NHFT
People who lie to the government are dishonest. Is that immoral? Does that make them untrustworthy?
I sure as hell hope you can see the difference between lying to government and lying to your fellow activists and friends.
Quote
To believe harm would come from a few fake names being on the F1K is absurd.
Harm has already come from this. I hope more harm will not follow.
Quote from: malevil on December 24, 2006, 01:06 PM NHFT
I probably have no right to butt into this lengthy thread...I'm not a freestater, I'm a NH native and could rightly be called an independent yankee, I'm empathetic to the FSP & libertarian ideals, I don't like to fight and argue, and I should just keep my mouth shut (er, my fingers quiet)...but I'm finding these back & forth postings on the First 1000 pledge on the verge of ridiculous. This arguing reminds me of the fights my kids have prior to being sent to their rooms until they cool down.
Karma to you, malevil. You're as qualified as anybody to comment on the FSP's image, and to remind us how much credibility the movement loses when our integrity is called into question.
For what it's worth, I consider it morally wrong and fraudulent to trick people into moving on false pretenses.
That having been said, I know of several people who signed up completely legitimately who were removed...Seems like the FSP is throwing the baby out with the bath water here in a knee jerk reaction to a problem.
It seems to me that at this point, the First 1000 cannot win. No matter the results, there are going to be people who say that the result is not legitimate as a result of this fracas.
But that just leaves people right back where they started: Do you want to join the non-violent revolution? Those who do will come here and join. Those who don't won't. If someone is looking for an excuse not to move, they will find their own excuse, Varrin.
Quote from: malevil on December 24, 2006, 01:06 PM NHFT
1) One of the libertarian ideals that my son has drilled into me is the importance of personal privacy. After hanging out on this forum for a number of months, I continue to be surprised when some of you write/reveal private emails, or conversations, or real names of posters (whether they are trolls or not, I don't care). It just seems rather hypocritical to me.
3) If I was considering locating to another state to join folks who shared my political beliefs, I would find all this "in fighting" so immature, unprofessional, and just plain ridiculous, that I would not be able to take the FSP seriously and -- frankly -- couldn't help but think a lot of you are kooks.
I guess I am not as into personal privacy as some "libertarians" ... so sue me. :)
I personally am trying to recruit as many immature revolutionaries into The Shire as possible.
I am very much into personal privacy, and I go to great lengths to protect others' privacy -- unless they're government bureaucrats.
The LP of Utah has to get 2000 signatures before February.
The election board will throw out 500 of those signatures.
We will have to get at least 2500 signatures in order to be legit.
So, is it safe to say the same about the First 1000?
250 signatures will need to be considered fraudulent and thrown out?
Question: How many have been removed thus far?
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 24, 2006, 01:58 PM NHFT
Quote from: malevil on December 24, 2006, 01:06 PM NHFT
1) One of the libertarian ideals that my son has drilled into me is the importance of personal privacy. After hanging out on this forum for a number of months, I continue to be surprised when some of you write/reveal private emails, or conversations, or real names of posters (whether they are trolls or not, I don't care). It just seems rather hypocritical to me.
3) If I was considering locating to another state to join folks who shared my political beliefs, I would find all this "in fighting" so immature, unprofessional, and just plain ridiculous, that I would not be able to take the FSP seriously and -- frankly -- couldn't help but think a lot of you are kooks.
I guess I am not as into personal privacy as some "libertarians" ... so sue me. :)
I personally am trying to recruit as many immature revolutionaries into The Shire as possible.
Every once in a long while, I feel like telling you to grow the f*** up, Russell, and this is one of those times. How does all this frivolity fit into your Jesus/Gandhi/Thoreau paradigm?
Quote from: Rocketman on December 24, 2006, 01:43 PM NHFT
Harm has already come from this. I hope more harm will not follow.
Harm? What, a few posts on a message board? Drop in the bucket. ::)
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 24, 2006, 03:44 PM NHFT
Quote from: Rocketman on December 24, 2006, 01:43 PM NHFT
Harm has already come from this. I hope more harm will not follow.
Harm? What, a few posts on a message board? Drop in the bucket. ::)
I hope you're right, Ian. But I'm not at all happy about recent developments. If anybody ever posts a private email from me on a public message board, without my permission, that person will lose my respect and my trust. And as for fraud, I'd like to think we could leave "vote early, vote often" to the Republicans and Democrats.
We're supposed to be better than they are... are we?Only time will tell. Time and actions...
"Recent developments"? All that has happened is that the fraud that has been happening has been brought to the forefront. The fraud has been there all year, it's only now that we're talking about it.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 16, 2006, 10:25 PM NHFT
If you wanted to be less than honest and manufacture fake F1K signers, you'll find this site useful:
http://dodgeit.com
For those of you who don't think fraud or the suggestion of ways to commit fraud could possibly be a problem, here's a quote from pledgebank tech support regarding 54(!) names removed from the pledge yesterday: "every signature I removed was extremely dubious - they were all created using the fake email server @dodgeit.com."
Great suggestion Ian...
V-
The FSP has been adamant about removing people from its ranks for quite some time, even for minor reasons. I do not like how the practice has been pursued in the past.
Signing up fake people isn't good, though. :-\
Some of us here have more cheerful and casual personalities, and some have more strict, hard-line, uptight personalities (*coughmecough*). Things even out when we work together on issues like this in a mature and responsible way. :)
Russell is an honest man. I strongly believe he would never do anything dishonest.
He's not a big activist on the issue of privacy like many of us are, but that's okay. :)
Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 24, 2006, 04:49 PM NHFT
The FSP has been adamant about removing people from its ranks for quite some time, even for minor reasons. I do not like how the practice has been pursued in the past.
Mike,
Since I have been responsible for the membership area (~2 yrs), very few have been removed. Three for their death, two for blatant and public racism, and about 8 per year at their specific request. There has been no removal of members for 'minor' reasons that I am aware of. Each new signup is 'viewed' for obvious spam and fraud and the integrity of the FSP database is excellent.
Brian
Quote from: FTL_Ian on December 24, 2006, 04:13 PM NHFT
"Recent developments"? All that has happened is that the fraud that has been happening has been brought to the forefront. The fraud has been there all year, it's only now that we're talking about it.
It's obvious there was a major uptick in phony signatures after Dec. 16. Posting the "dodgeit" link was a bonehead move, Ian. Ten days ago we were all excited by the
very real increase in signups that was
earned by serious, concentrated activism. Today we are squabbling with each other, and it will be hard for the FSP to move forward until we put this First 1K thing to bed.
Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 24, 2006, 04:52 PM NHFT
Russell is an honest man. I strongly believe he would never do anything dishonest.
He's not a big activist on the issue of privacy like many of us are, but that's okay. :)
I've never known Russell to be anything less than honest. "Frivolous" is a much lesser charge, one I assume he wouldn't argue with, given his stated focus on recruiting "immature revolutionaries."
I think a lot of valid signatures have been deleted as well as phony ones. People have noted that real signatures are being deleted. I'm sure that some of that spike was fake, but I'm also willing to bet that much of it was legitimate. I want to know how pledgebank is determing what's phony.
In any event, I'd like to appeal to those of you who usually don't care about what the FSP is doing to get on board and help with phone calls and e-mails for First 1000. I think that getting First 1000 sucessfully accomplished will help insure momentum for the FSP and our activism here. Simply put, it is important. If First 1000 flops, I don't know that we'll get enough movers to make a difference, and I don't think that we can improve things in New Hampshire with the current numbers. I know that many people who moved so far are content to just do their part and ignore whether others come. That's well and good, but the power of any movements lies in numbers, and frankly we ain't got the numbers yet.
Even if you just ask one or two people, it would be a really big help.
Quote from: citizen_142002 on December 24, 2006, 06:48 PM NHFT
People have noted that real signatures are being deleted. ... Even if you just ask one or two people, it would be a really big help.
What good is asking people to sing up if their signatures will get deleted. I bet we've probably already had at least 100 legitimate signatures deleted. I saw the total go down more than just a few times, I bet that there is someone at pledgebank maliciously deleting these signatures.
- lex
This is where some e-mailing comes in handy. If you think that pledgebank is being overzealous, send them a really nasty e-mail. Threaten to give them bad press on blogs or... nationally syndicated radio shows.
I'd really like a list of deletions from pledgebank or the FSP, so that we can try to get in touch with legitimate signators who've been deleted. I think there has been a kind of witch hunt in the name of countering fraud, and a lot of real pledges are being tossed out the window.
Is there some way to contact those who've been deleted, and ask them to resubmit, as well as inform them what might have thrown up a red flag.
In fighting isn't going to get us anywhere. Time is really short on this thing. I want to see First 1000 suceed, and I think it is vital to table all the personal baggage until after Dec 31.
Varrin, Ian, and anyone else who's in the inside circle with this stuff. Please communicate with each other, and move forward quickly. Let's do everything legitimate that we can to make First 1000 a sucess.
After the deadline, we can take all the time in the world to flame each other, and call names, and take sides. If we do that now, there is no way the First 1000 will come out the way we ALL want it to.
Agreed?
Quote from: Rocketman on December 24, 2006, 05:18 PM NHFT
It's obvious there was a major uptick in phony signatures after Dec. 16. Posting the "dodgeit" link was a bonehead move, Ian.
Information is a dangerous thing. I simply revealed obvious security holes that had already been exploited. I agree, it may have been a mistake.
Are you angrier because I revealed a potential cheat? Or that I revealed how easily cheated the pledgebank system is?
QuoteEvery once in a long while, I feel like telling you to grow the f*** up, Russell, and this is one of those times. How does all this frivolity fit into your Jesus/Gandhi/Thoreau paradigm?
Rocketman, I'm going to stick up for Russell on this one. You're not being even a little fair.
The only thing Russell did (as a joke to make fun of a troll on this forum) was to sign up for a fake pledgebank poll. He didn't even remember doing it. Kat had to remind him. I can guarantee you that Russell didn't sign up even a single fake person, nor would the thought of doing so have occurred to him.
As for posting a private e-mail, I will agree that it is normally bad etiquette. There is a caveat though ... Russell is famous for telling people not to send him anything or tell him anything that they don't want made public. It's not like Varrin has never heard Russell's privacy policy, and Varrin doesn't seem upset about it. Other people are the ones getting their panties in a wad over it.
I agree with you on the fraudulent additions to the First 1000. But Russell was not implicated, and you singling him out was unfair.
Caleb
If someone gives me an email, it becomes my property and I'll do with it as I wish.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 24, 2006, 07:52 PM NHFT
If someone gives me an email, it becomes my property and I'll do with it as I wish.
Like print it in the newspaper? ;D
/me waits impatiently for the next issue of the Keene Free Press to find out all the latest stock tips and deals on cheap Viagra
You know I think I had a pretty good point there and people just argued right past it. This bitching about each other isn't doing anything to make us more free.
Can we please focus on getting the wrongful deletions back on the pledge, and bury the mud slinging until the deadline has gone by???
Is everyone so insecure that they need to defend their honor on a stupid pledgebank controversy. Please, everyone grow up. There may be some good reason to be mad, but just save it for a few days.
Can you do that folks?
Nick, I don't think anyone here has access to the list of who has been deleted and who has not. Perhaps Varrin can get that for you if you'd like to peruse the list and try to contact the people who have been deleted. It is frustrating, though, because like I said, no matter what happens with the First 1000, at this point because of what happened there is going to be a percentage of people who are going to feel that the results are tainted.
I don't care all that much about fake names on the pledge.
I really don't care all that much about REAL signers of the pledge, either.
I care about working for more liberty.
Whether you signed the pledge or not, or whether some of the names on it are fake or not, and whether your name was inadvertently removed from the pledge or not, these things are not that important. What's important is that you make the move!
Quote from: Rocketman on December 24, 2006, 02:46 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 24, 2006, 01:58 PM NHFT
I guess I am not as into personal privacy as some "libertarians" ... so sue me. :)
I personally am trying to recruit as many immature revolutionaries into The Shire as possible.
Every once in a long while, I feel like telling you to grow the f*** up, Russell, and this is one of those times. How does all this frivolity fit into your Jesus/Gandhi/Thoreau paradigm?
How is joking incompatible with that paradigm?
The results were always going to contain a percentage of false signatures. Ian was right to point out that pledgebank is open to all kinds of fraud. He may not have done it in the most prudent way, but anyway that's not the point.
I have contacted Varrin about obtaining the deletions, though I suspect they may be denied out of privacy concerns, which seems absurd to me since the assertion is that they aren't real people.
If I can get my hands on the list I will most definitely be contacting people, and I would make it available to other people who are working to get 1000 signers. If we can get the errored deletions back on, then we will actually receive a kind of boost.
error, you make a great point, but the reality is that many people's willingness to move is based on whether we can get at least 1000 people in New Hampshire, which is why the First 1000 is important.
Y'all,
I didn't intend to get sucked into this thread, but I do think it would be best for me to give an update. Here are responses to I *think* all the relevant stuff:
1: It's bad form to publically post private emails without prior permission, even for people like Kat and Russell (despite what they may think). Having said that, A) I know both Kat and Russell and know they're prone to forward, publish, and/or otherwise redistribute pretty much anything that comes their way, and B) that email wasn't private to Russell only. Ian, Mark (Edge), and the whole O-list were also copied on it, so it wasn't exactly private to begin with. I *normally* attempt to communicate in writing in ways that won't embarrass the daylights out of me if it's reposted anywhere. That's not an absolute policy and this should *not* be construed as blanket permission to repost anything I ever send to anyone privately, but in this case it's no biggie (had he asked, I would have happily posted the whole thread myself). I do wish he had formatted it better, though ;)
2: I continue to hold the position that it was unwise for Ian to post a "If you wanted to be less than honest..." email. I said from the beginning that I wasn't accusing Ian of advocating dishonesty nor of participating in it, but merely stating it that way was poor. Similarly, I was surprised (and still am) that Russell signed the fraudulent signature pledge, even as a joke. I don't believe he'd actually enter fake pledges, but advocating it by signing that pledge was not good. Having heard that he did so as a joke and promptly forgot about it sounds far more in line with his character than it appeared even to the informed observer. Still, bad form on both parts (and I'm glad to see Ian acknowledge that here).
3: I am convinced there is not a malicious person at pledgebank maliciously deleting pledge signatures. I don't know the total number of signatures that have been removed but I'm confident it's less than 100 (I'd estimate about 70-75 total). I have been in communication with customer service there for the last two days. They are being very responsive and we're working to resolve the issue. Sending nasty emails and/or trashing them publically might not be so smart, espeically prior to finding out what actually happened.
4: I have detected two blocks of deletions. I have not begun to investigate the first block, but I believe I should do so. That *may* have been a separate issue, but if it's the same issue, it will need to be resolved, too. I have gained much more information about the second block. I have heard multiple reports that at least some people who were deleted were legitimate signers. There is, however, conflicting information which requires further investigation. It is not yet clear how many signatures are legitimate. If it turns out that the signatures are fraudulent, I will do my best to determine who committed the fraud and expose the facts I have discovered. If there are any legitimate signatures, all of the signatures reasonably presumed to be legitimate will be reinstated (less any duplicates we can detect). It does appear likely that all of the deleted signatures came from either one or two people. Pledgebank is being quite helpful in the investigation.
5: I don't think I will be able to obtain an actual list of the people removed from the pledgebank site. Pledgebank is charged with guarding the privacy of that information, which includes from people like me (the FSP President) and Ian (the 'official' pledge initiator). Similarly, the FSP will not release a list of names of people who have been removed, aside from those who are already indicated publically (see the BOD meeting minutes if you're interested). Brian Sullivan already posted a suitable response to that issue. What I have been working on is determining if there is sufficient evidence to determine that the 'batches' are fraudulent and, if so, keep them removed, or, if not, have them reinstated. I hope it will be possible to accomplish that.
6: Yes, we should be working on getting more signatures. I have personally recruited both new signers and new callers within the last couple of days. I hope the rest of you will do the same.
More later,
V-
Did you see my sig line Rocketman .... maybe I have attained stage 2 status. :)
It wouldn't matter if you got the email addresses, citizen. Any signatures from dodgeit.com are likely fake, but there's no way to be sure.
Naturally, we'll be discussing the whole issue on the Xmas day edition of FTL. Be sure to call in with your thoughts. Perhaps all this controversy will push the remaining legit signatures...
Well it's good to hear that you're working on it Varrin, Merry Christmas everyone.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 24, 2006, 01:58 PM NHFT
Quote from: malevil on December 24, 2006, 01:06 PM NHFT
1) One of the libertarian ideals that my son has drilled into me is the importance of personal privacy. After hanging out on this forum for a number of months, I continue to be surprised when some of you write/reveal private emails, or conversations, or real names of posters (whether they are trolls or not, I don't care). It just seems rather hypocritical to me.
3) If I was considering locating to another state to join folks who shared my political beliefs, I would find all this "in fighting" so immature, unprofessional, and just plain ridiculous, that I would not be able to take the FSP seriously and -- frankly -- couldn't help but think a lot of you are kooks.
I guess I am not as into personal privacy as some "libertarians" ... so sue me. :)
I personally am trying to recruit as many immature revolutionaries into The Shire as possible.
For what it is worth Varrin stated that he was going to email Russell and Ian about this on the Organizers list, so, I wasn't surprised.
Oops!, I outed the O list!
I hope they aren't deleting everyone Sandy has been entering. She would have been doing it from her IP address, using her own email (perhaps) ... but she was entering legitimate signers.
There appears to be a separate issue not concerning deletions: some people who have signed up have never appeared on the list at all.
"...there is nothing concealed that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known"
"For nothing is hidden, except to be revealed; nor has anything been secret, but that it would come to light."
I am just speeding up the process. ;)
I know for sure they aren't catching the individuals who signed and plan to move in 2009. Many of this pledge's signers are fraudulent any way you slice it.
Ian, I've been meaning to call in about F1K anyway. Maybe this will generate some signers. I hope so.
Caleb, I've wondered about the IP address thing too. I hope that all the people that Sandy has been entering have made it on. If not, we may have already passed 1000 valid signatures anyway, just speculating there.
Now would be a good time to go to the pledge and check to see if there are entries you know should be there. If any help is needed by anyone doing fact checking or last minute error correction, I will help however I can.
Quote from: error on December 24, 2006, 08:01 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 24, 2006, 07:52 PM NHFT
If someone gives me an email, it becomes my property and I'll do with it as I wish.
Like print it in the newspaper? ;D
/me waits impatiently for the next issue of the Keene Free Press to find out all the latest stock tips and deals on cheap Viagra
In the next issue we will cover that amazing Nigerian bank account opportunity.
"For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his deeds should be exposed. But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his deeds have been carried out in God."
QuoteIn the next issue we will cover that amazing Nigerian bank account opportunity.
Hey! That's my opportunity! >:( :icon_pirat:
Nice quote Caleb.
Of course it is a bit irrelevant to those of us who are Atheists, but still poetic. ;)
Glad you liked it Nick! A quote from our Lord on the eve of his supposed birth. :)
Well really it's the eve of the day the Catholic church set as his birth, which clearly it isn't and it's really just a coopting of pagan holidays in an effort to aid conversions.
But hey, one day is as good as any other. It's a nice time of year no matter how you look at it. Important for christians, pagans, jews, and capitalists.
Pledgebank should be made to prove the signups are illigitimate or replace them. Then they should make their site tamperproof or fold up their tent. I'll never sign another online pledge.
Possibly chosen to link to a pagan Roman festival. We don't know, exactly, why this date was selected, but it's entirely possible that it was selected to coincide with the Jewish festival of the rededication of the temple, since Christian themes have emphasized that Christ was the fulfillment of the temple types in the OT.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on December 24, 2006, 09:12 PM NHFT
Pledgebank should be made to prove the signups are illigitimate or replace them. Then they should make their site tamperproof or fold up their tent. I'll never sign another online pledge.
It's the Internet. You can't make ANYTHING tamperproof.
Thanks for the update, Varrin. I trust that you and others will get to the bottom of this mess and make sure all valid signatures are counted.
Ian and Russell, I hope there are no hard feelings. I was annoyed with each of you, for reasons I believe were legitimate, and I felt compelled to say the things I said. I make more than my share of bad choices, and when people call me on my mistakes, I hope I'm grateful... none of us is perfect, and we can all become better people and better activists...
No biggie. It will make for interesting radio.
I think everyone's snappy and cranky right now.
#1 It's the holidays, all that stress.
#2 A lot of people really care about First 1000, and now that it's crunch time, people are getting worried. Especially when they see a big block of names suddenly get wiped out.
Quote from: Caleb on December 24, 2006, 07:51 PM NHFT
QuoteEvery once in a long while, I feel like telling you to grow the f*** up, Russell, and this is one of those times. How does all this frivolity fit into your Jesus/Gandhi/Thoreau paradigm?
Rocketman, I'm going to stick up for Russell on this one. You're not being even a little fair.
The only thing Russell did (as a joke to make fun of a troll on this forum) was to sign up for a fake pledgebank poll. He didn't even remember doing it. Kat had to remind him. I can guarantee you that Russell didn't sign up even a single fake person, nor would the thought of doing so have occurred to him.
As for posting a private e-mail, I will agree that it is normally bad etiquette. There is a caveat though ... Russell is famous for telling people not to send him anything or tell him anything that they don't want made public. It's not like Varrin has never heard Russell's privacy policy, and Varrin doesn't seem upset about it. Other people are the ones getting their panties in a wad over it.
I agree with you on the fraudulent additions to the First 1000. But Russell was not implicated, and you singling him out was unfair.
Caleb
Just to put this to bed, what I was really annoyed by was Russell's flippant response to malevil. I would never have suspected him of entering fake signatures. Then, when questioned about posting Varrin's email, another flippant response. People who know Russell usually know when he's joking around, which is most of the time (unlike, I think, Gandhi, Jesus, and Thoreau). But that doesn't mean he can disclaim all responsibility for the effects his words might have on others.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on December 24, 2006, 09:12 PM NHFT
I'll never sign another online pledge.
Here ya go!
http://www.pledgebank.com/stopit
Quote
"I will stop using pledgebank but only if 10 other people, or spambots, or their illegitamate children will not do the same, or pledge not to."
Quote from: citizen_142002 on December 24, 2006, 09:35 PM NHFT
I think everyone's snappy and cranky right now.
I am having a ball .... and being flippant to people that are soooo serious about the 1st1000. :)
I'm cranky because I foolishly agreed to spend 3 1/2 weeks away from New Hampshire. Hope I never do that again...
I gave pledgebank the domains Sandy and Varrin used for entering paper signups and asked that they not delete them.
That is good.
BTW JonM have you signed the 1st1000? :)
Quote from: d_goddard on December 24, 2006, 09:55 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on December 24, 2006, 09:12 PM NHFT
I'll never sign another online pledge.
Here ya go!
http://www.pledgebank.com/stopit
Quote
"I will stop using pledgebank but only if 10 other people, or spambots, or their illegitamate children will not do the same, or pledge not to."
;D
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 25, 2006, 12:36 AM NHFT
That is good.
BTW JonM have you signed the 1st1000? :)
Yeah, but only the one time . . .
What timezone is Pledgebank in?
I just had to check again -- as of right now "918 people have signed up, 81 more needed"
Wow, That is great!!
The FSP home page has the count down to when the pledge expires, and 7pm is correct. During the last hour it will display minutes. If you're inclined to be checking such things on new year's eve.
Quote from: castle_chaser on December 29, 2006, 05:31 PM NHFT
I just had to check again -- as of right now "918 people have signed up, 81 more needed"
Wow, That is great!!
That is if they don't cut out more names :-[. I see a Michael Jordan has just signed up!
Quote from: earthhaven on December 29, 2006, 06:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: castle_chaser on December 29, 2006, 05:31 PM NHFT
I just had to check again -- as of right now "918 people have signed up, 81 more needed"
Wow, That is great!!
That is if they don't cut out more names :-[. I see a Michael Jordan has just signed up!
Just for fun, I googled Michael Jordan NH and got three separate phone/address listings just in NH for people named Michael Jordan so it could definetly be a real person. I know from FTL last night that Mark and team have called hundreds of FSPers. I wonder if he called Michael Jordan ;D
I asked and was told the Michael Jordan signup was legit, a result of the phone calls. :D
Anybody know any software engineers named Michael Bolton? ;D
Quote from: Rocketman on December 29, 2006, 06:37 PM NHFT
Anybody know any software engineers named Michael Bolton? ;D
Yeah, I met him while I was living in Dallas.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 29, 2006, 07:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: Rocketman on December 29, 2006, 06:37 PM NHFT
Anybody know any software engineers named Michael Bolton? ;D
Yeah, I met him while I was living in Dallas.
Goes by Mike, I'll bet.
:)
Be careful, if we make any more movie references here, AlanM will come and start telling stories :o :D
Funny, earlier I was wondering about the New Year's Eves at Upton Corners... ;D
MJ did just get divorced, so maybe he is ready for a change and wants to bring his team up to NH.
Go Manch Bobcats!
Who updates this page http://www.freestateproject.org/first1000
It says, in a big green box, we are 60% to our goal -- but the numbers on freepledge say a much different story.
"926 people have signed up, 73 more needed" If I'm not mistaken that would be about 92%
Am I missing something or does that FSP page just need updating?
Quote from: castle_chaser on December 29, 2006, 10:02 PM NHFT
does that FSP page just need updating?
If I recall correctly, the FSP counter only refreshes once per day or so. The "real" number is the pledgebank number.
At 60%, once per day stopped weeks ago.
I would say that page is not updated very often.
Almost there
the little counter once per day ... the page is way behind
looks like jim johnson is still not on the pledge
69 more needed ;D
According to the pledge bank website the F1k needs 58 more people to reach the goal. So close but yet so far
Quote from: castle_chaser on December 30, 2006, 12:35 AM NHFT
69 more needed ;D
Okay, I'll giggle along with that one. :D
Now we need 55 more, assuming "Player to be named later" turns out to be a real activist. :P
Here's a link to my Free State Blogs post promoting First 1K. If anybody happens to like it, please feel free to send the link around to pro-liberty targets and/or post the text on blogs/forums.
http://www.freestateblogs.net/node/1077 (http://www.freestateblogs.net/node/1077)
Quote958 people have signed up, 41 more needed
:icon_dance:
btw, Jim Johnson has been added to the First 1000, so we've recovered one of the illegitimate deletions. Who knows how many more are unrecovered.
Movin' right along now... 35 more :fingerscrossed:
Guys, don't forget to contact anyone you know who was on the fence about signing. This is last call.
I would sleep a lot better if we reached 1000 before I go to bed tonight.
Is anyone making phone calls in Keene today? I'd be glad to stop by and help.
I'm making phone calls today. In Keene. :D
Yeah, but, "is your refridgerator running?" doesn't count!
The signup rate for the first 1000 is the opposite of the FSP:
http://www.pledgebank.com/First1000/info
I got a friend to sign. 22 left!
I have sent out an e-mail to the local FSP group challanging them to make a New Year's resolution to sign the first 1000 pledge.
Are they deleting signups again? I saw a few minutes ago that we needed 8 more. Now it's back to 10. ???
Quote from: Caleb on December 30, 2006, 06:34 PM NHFT
Are they deleting signups again? I saw a few minutes ago that we needed 8 more. Now it's back to 10. ???
I don't know I looked at it about 15 minutes ago and it was at 12 people and now it is down to 10.
Quote from: slim on December 30, 2006, 06:37 PM NHFT
Quote from: Caleb on December 30, 2006, 06:34 PM NHFT
Are they deleting signups again? I saw a few minutes ago that we needed 8 more. Now it's back to 10. ???
I don't know I looked at it about 15 minutes ago and it was at 12 people and now it is down to 10.
It's 5 left as of this post. It's kind of frustrating to see the number going up and down, I'm worried Pledgebank will delete a bunch of sign-ups at the last minute and bring it below 1000.
well, we're down to one more to go ... ;D
I doubt they'll delete them en masse. I think all the current ones are on the up and up.
Susan Finchcarol
is the 1000th person to sign the pledge I am popping the champagne
(http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q265/joelmatton/F1K.jpg)
;D
Big thanks to Friday, who worked like hell on F1K for months while the rest of us hoped "somebody" was working on it.
Majorly big kudos to Mark... you really picked up the ball and ran the last down!
Congratulations!
We are pleased to tell you that the pledge you signed up to has
been a success.
The pledge, created by Ian Bernard, reads: 'I will move to New Hampshire by 12/31/2008 where I will work to bring about a
society in which government?s maximum role is protecting life,
liberty, and property but only if 999 other liberty minded
individuals will too.' The 999th person has signed the pledge,
just moments ago.
Now it is your turn to do what you pledged. Ian Bernard will
email you soon to give you any further information you need.
Why not take some photos of you fulfilling your pledge - we
love pics :)
-- the PledgeBank.com team
-----
Since they are already sending out success notices, it would be very difficult for pledgebank to delete us down below the success point now.
Kudos! without an apostrophe
All right everyone, start packing your bags! ;D
Someone should call Elizabeth a few times and tell her
What? ???
How is this possible? :o
A miracle? :o
Maybe people took pity on Mark calling them even though he was sick with the flu.
(http://www.pledgebank.com/graph.cgi?pledge_id=1301;interval=pledge)
???
Don't celebrate too soon, they're not going to accept fake signatures.
Quote from: JasonPSorens on December 30, 2006, 07:05 PM NHFT
...Aaaand we're over. I feel a bit like celebrating, but I caution that we will need to make sure, through a random sample perhaps, that the recent signatures are valid. The notion that certain callers were paid by the signup casts a - hopefully fleeting - pall over the moment. If people had to sign themselves up, then it's OK, but if people paid to generate signups were also entering those signups, we have a problem, and those signers will have to be verified soon.
Caleb was calling people all afternoon/evening.
GREAT JOB, Caleb, Mark, and everyone who worked on this!!! :D
Quote from: burnthebeautiful on December 30, 2006, 07:49 PM NHFT
Don't celebrate too soon, they're not going to accept fake signatures.
I've already received the announcement by e-mail: It's over. The petition succeeded.
Unless they want to send a second announcement that it did not in fact succeed, it has succeeded.
QuoteThree signatures were recently removed, as they were duplicates of older signatures that we were alerted about by the Free State Project. Sorry if that upset anyone so close to the goal, but hope you can understand, and it looks like the pledge might meet its target as I write this, congratulations.
Matthew, PledgeBank
Matthew Somerville at 00:55 today
:)
That is cool.
How many people do you think moved during 2006? I was thinking 100
So how many people will move in 2007 ..... 200 .... 300 or more?
I am sure than many of these people will move in the next couple of years. :)
I called up Free Talk Live just to remind people it isn't over yet! You still have to pack up and move! And sooner rather than later. Don't wait!
I will find it amusing if some socialist newspaper does a "The libertarians are invading! Run and hide!" article ;D
I can see it in front of me...
"The pledges success means that 1,000 libertarians will move to New Hampshire before 2008. Jane Doe, middle school teacher from Portsmouth, for one, is not looking forward to the arrival.
'They're going to come in and throw all the poor people out on the streets and kill puppies. This is terrible, I'm terrified', she says. Other people are on the fence, Like Bob Doe, store clerk, from Laconia. 'I don't know much about these guys, but apparently they want infants to do cocaine and carry machine guns, and you know, I'm not sure how I feel about that' "
:P
The Union Leader probably won't, but I sure will! Thanks for the idea! >:D
Okay, I changed my mind. I didn't feel like satire, more like celebrating.
http://www.homelandstupidity.us/2006/12/30/first-1000-to-move-for-liberty/
I can see the parties at Kevin's getting bigger and bigger and bigger ;D
;D 8) A big thanks to every one who worked on this.
Even that red headed fed-ex step child. I think I will leave more beer on the porch for him.
To celebrate, the first episode of Free Minds TV will be posted online before the year is up! 8)
Uh oh. What have we started? :o
Hopeless Statism < :Bolt: > New Hampshire
I posted it over at digg.
(http://digg.com/img/badges/180x35-digg-button.gif) (http://www.digg.com/politics/Free_State_Project_has_reached_the_goal_of_its_First_1000_Pledge) http://www.digg.com/politics/Free_State_Project_has_reached_the_goal_of_its_First_1000_Pledge (http://www.digg.com/politics/Free_State_Project_has_reached_the_goal_of_its_First_1000_Pledge)
Chime! er, Dugg!
Congrats, cut it close :)
Dugg.
Shit, I have to actually MOVE now?!
;D
Quote from: Braddogg on December 31, 2006, 03:23 PM NHFT
Shit, I have to actually MOVE now?!
;D
Oh boo hoo hoo. You're in Boston. Moving almost ANYWHERE would be an improvement.
Quote
scumbag like Fisher
I wonder if Varrin would say it to my face. I may have to pay him a visit.
I very much doubt he would.
Quote from: money dollars on April 20, 2007, 02:01 PM NHFT
Quote
scumbag like Fisher
I wonder if Varrin would say it to my face. I may have to pay him a visit.
This is a little out of the blue.... 4 month old thread.... and the quote doesn't have a source.
Quote from: Dreepa on April 20, 2007, 02:02 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on April 20, 2007, 02:01 PM NHFT
Quote
scumbag like Fisher
I wonder if Varrin would say it to my face. I may have to pay him a visit.
This is a little out of the blue.... 4 month old thread.... and the quote doesn't have a source.
MD must be bored ::)
Quote from: Dreepa on April 20, 2007, 02:02 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on April 20, 2007, 02:01 PM NHFT
Quote
scumbag like Fisher
I wonder if Varrin would say it to my face. I may have to pay him a visit.
This is a little out of the blue.... 4 month old thread.... and the quote doesn't have a source.
First time I read it.
source is an email from Varrin
Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 24, 2006, 08:02 AM NHFT
Ian and Russell, I'd like to draw your attention
I just sent Varrin an email, with spelling mistakes and all:
Quote
Hey Varrin.
I would like to give you the opoirtunity to insult me face to face. When is good for you?