PRESS RELEASE
Liberty Tree Society
2 Silver Drive, #2
Nashua, NH 03060
For Immediate Release
For additional information
James C. Perry
Phone: (603)-891-1934
E-mail: jimcperry@gmail.com
The Liberty Tree Society, a group of New Hampshire citizens, announced today that they will hold an anti-zoning demonstration in front of Rockingham County Superior Court at 9:30 AM on January 25, 2005.
This demonstration is being organized to show support for Barbara Burbank and Myrtle Woodward, both of Hampton, NH, who are being sued by the Hampton, NH Building Inspector, Kevin Schultz for Zoning Violations.
This suit, filed Dec. 13 in Rockingham County Superior Court, asks a judge to order the women to demolish everything not approved by the town, prohibit further construction, and pay the town?s costs and attorney?s fees.
In a statement made by Burbank in a local newspaper, she explained why she wanted to build a separate apartment, saying "My aunt will be 96 in February, and she loves this old house. I promised not to put her in a nursing home, and my daughter lives here, too, but is allergic to my aunt?s long-haired cats, now I have to spend the money to fight them. I have no choice."
We are asking for all pro-freedom, pro-liberty residents of the State of New Hampshire and in all other New England States to come out to Rockingham County Superior Court on January 25, 2005 at 9:30 AM to show your support to Burbank and Woodward and to protest our government?s use of authority to break up families and destroy private property rights.
For more information contact Jim C. Perry of the Liberty Tree Society at 603-891-1934 or by email at jimcperry@gmail.com.
Directions to the Courthouse:
Rockingham Superior Court
Rockingham County Courthouse
10 Route 125
Brentwood, NH
From the north: Take Interstate 93 South to Route 101 East. Follow Route 101 East to Exit 7 (Epping). Take Route 125 South at Exit 7. Stay on Route 125 South for 5 miles. Watch for a sign to Rockingham County Courthouse on the right. Turn right and the court is on the left.
From the south: Take Interstate 93 North to Route 101 East. Follow 101 East to Exit 7 (Epping). Take Route 125 South at Exit 7. Stay on Route 125 South for 5 miles. Watch for a sign to Rockingham County Courthouse on the right. Turn right and the court is on the left.
From the east: Take Route 101 West to Exit 7 (Epping). Take Route 125 South at Exit 7. Stay on Route 125 South for 5 miles. Watch for a sign to Rockingham County Courthouse on the right. Turn right and the court is on the left.
From the west: Take Route 101 East through Manchester towards seacoast to Exit 7 (Epping). Take Route 125 South at Exit 7. Stay on Route 125 South for 5 miles. Watch for a sign at Rockingham County Courthouse on the right. Turn right and the court is on the left.
I think you are right on in your plans for this protest Jim...only suggestions I'd have would be make the press release a little shorter next time, and also the first thing people see when they look at the releas should be an eye-popping headline.... "Protesters to descend on XYZ Courthouse" or what not.
Also after we do the Jan 25 protest I think it might be appropriate to have a protest in front of the building inspector's home. Normally I'm against home protests, but he invaded her home so maybe we should invade his space a bit. Another option would be placing copies of the Herald article in his neighbors' newspaper tubes. These are a couple ways to turn up the heat lawfully if the protest itself fails to do the trick. Unless I'm missing something, this seems like a good issue to fight down to the last round.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 06, 2005, 07:17 PM NHFT
Another option would be placing copies of the Herald article in his neighbors' newspaper tubes.
"Your neighbor is a pinko zoning thug!"
One issue that really bothers me about this whole thing is that the police go around reporting minor zoning violations when on emergency calls.? You call the police for help, you let them in your house, and YOU go to court for some random zoning law!? UGH!!!
I'm going to write a letter to the editor and... and... and... I don't know what else.? bleh.
We need to start a Property Rights Foundation chapter or something similar in the Seacoast area to tackle these loose-cannon zoning boards around the state.
Only two weeks ago some lady came to a Newmarket meeting asking for help writing a law to turn her "historical advisory committee" into a legal commission of the town that can write zoning ordinances.? It was NOT pretty.? A few Newmarket citizens and I treated her very harshly, but I don't think the battle has even begun yet.
Wait- you live in the Hampton/Newmarket area eh?
JP
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 06, 2005, 10:37 PM NHFT
Wait- you live in the Hampton/Newmarket area eh?
JP
Yep. Newmarket.
I am going to be in Hampton on Mon, Wed and Friday of next week and the week after handing out flyers in defense of these ladies.
I am coming from Nashua, an hour drive each way to give my time to this effort. I could use some local help passing out these flyers... so if you have any time available, PLEASE let me know.
JP
I can give you a hand, JP. I live in Exeter. Next Weds. and Friday are available for me to help. I don't know about the following week yet.
AlanM
Quote from: AlanM on January 06, 2005, 11:27 PM NHFT
I can give you a hand, JP. I live in Exeter. Next Weds. and Friday are available for me to help. I don't know about the following week yet.
AlanM
Great, thank you very much!
JP
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 06, 2005, 11:20 PM NHFT
I am going to be in Hampton on Mon, Wed and Friday of next week and the week after handing out flyers in defense of these ladies.
I am coming from Nashua, an hour drive each way to give my time to this effort. I could use some local help passing out these flyers... so if you have any time available, PLEASE let me know.
JP
I somehow overlooked this post!
Of course I'll help you out. I have appointments and meetings throughout the week but I'll definitely help you out.
Get my contact info here: http://www.ctgreatbay.com/
You folks ROCK! All of this just came about in last night's chat and this thing is moving along like a bullet. I am truly impressed by the planning and organization that made this protest possible. I can only imagine how Myrtle Woodward will feel about this group too. I am proud to know all of you, electronically of course. ;D
Jim, I got your file for the flyer and will be printing them out today. Let's make a time that I can get these to you. Rock on, buddy. Thanks for your efforts to get the word out. :-*
Here's an anti-zoning LTE from a guy in Farmington (around Rochester). We need to find his contact info and get him to join us in our protest and other efforts.
http://www4.fosters.com/January2005/01.07.05/comment/let_01_07_05.asp
David Krestner
(603) 332-2113
Quote from: katdillon on January 07, 2005, 09:28 AM NHFT
David Krestner
(603) 332-2113
Wow Kat... are you like amazing or what?
JP
No, just your plain ole net geek.
Google comes up with:? David Kestner, (603) 332-2113, , Farmington, NH 03835
Let's also invite him into these forums.
Who is calling the David guy?
Also, would it help to start a petition of some sort to stop the demolition of Myrtle's home?
Quote from: katdillon on January 07, 2005, 09:43 AM NHFT
Who is calling the David guy?
Also, would it help to start a petition of some sort to stop the demolition of Myrtle's home?
Yes it would, I already started yesyerday. But what to say in the petition is what gets me... I'm usually good at wording petitions, but suddenly -- I'm at a loss to exactly how we want to say this.
JP
Call her again and ask if she is finished writing up her explanation of what she's going through. This should help with the petition.
I like all of these idea. We need to take this one all the way. Giving out flyers in these lady's neighborhood and Kevin Schultz's (Heartless Bureaucrat) also is just perfect. :)
I contacted IJ(Institute for Justice). I'm disappointed with their response but I guess its understandable.
If you want the case considered fill out their form and submit it..
http://www.ij.org/potentialcase/p_case.pdf
Part of the problem is that we are fighting both bad laws (zoning etc.) and bad enforcement (bureaucrats). We have to go over the heads of the bureaucrats and around the law to what is right.
Has anyone contacted the town selectmen to see if they approve or are even aware of what their building inspector is doing?
You're not going to get bad laws changed overnight but maybe the overzealous enforcement could be.
Quote from: Erethizon on January 07, 2005, 12:39 PM NHFT
Has anyone contacted the town selectmen to see if they approve or are even aware of what their building inspector is doing?
You're not going to get bad laws changed overnight but maybe the overzealous enforcement could be.
Working on it.
JP
From Barbara Burbank today:
Hello Jim,
Yes, thank you, I welcome you to come take pictures and I can show you a copy of the letter that a respected real estate broker wrote that refutes what the town building inspector has said in the court documents.
Thank you also for the local connection to the fellow in Exeter.
Tomorrow, I was planning to put together a piece for you as you had asked. I was upset today by the Hampton Union's article that was NOT a good one. It did not quote me correctly and it claimed that the building inspector had "confirmed" his findings. I am planning a letter to the editor with my complaint, but they probably will not publish it.
Thank you again for your support. You can give Alan my home number if you would like. It is 603-...-....
the suspected "dish washing criminal",
Barbara..."I'm not guilty, I swear, all my dishes are dirty!"
I've got 1000 flyers printed up, ready for distribution!
You can bet that my husband, LeRuiner6, will be on this like white trash on Velveeta!
I will not post too often in this forum - but this family's struggles with the moronic law
is disturbing. We moved from Vermont to NH because of this sort of crapola, and here it is
HERE again. :P
-=Amethyste
Town says garage fix-up illegal
From http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/hampton/01072005/news/57845.htm
By Patrick Cronin
pcronin@seacoastonline.com
HAMPTON - "Not fit for human occupancy."
That is what the sign says on Barbara Burbank?s garage addition, where her daughter was staying, after a surprise inspection by the building inspector.
"It doesn?t make any sense," said Burbank.
While the town says Burbank built an illegal apartment, she says she did nothing of the sort and is now being forced to defend herself in court.
Building Inspector Kevin Schultz filed legal action against Burbank and her 95-year-old aunt, Myrtle Woodward, on Dec. 13, asking a judge to order the woman to demolish everything not approved by the town, prohibit further construction and pay the town?s costs and attorney?s fees.
It also asks that the town be reimbursed for time the Building Department spent on the case and the women be fined $275 per day for every day since Feb. 27, 2003, when they allegedly violated their permit.
Schultz is scheduled to face Burbank and Woodward at Rockingham Superior Court on Jan. 25.
Burbank, however, wants to know what building code she violated and what exactly the town wants her to get rid of.
"I have no choice but to defend myself because I didn?t do anything wrong," said Burbank.
She says the zoning board approved a variance to construct an addition to her garage with "a large recreational room with smaller loft and bathroom above."
The approval came after she was denied a variance in April 2002 to construct an apartment, with a kitchen, for her daughter above the garage. It was denied primarily because two-family dwellings are not permitted in that area under the Hampton Zoning Ordinance.
"I didn?t change anything," said Burbank. "I did everything according to the plans that were approved."
The only thing that changed was they moved furniture into the rooms including a bed, Burbank says.
Her daughter was sleeping there at night because she is allergic to her aunt?s long-haired cats.
While she had a sink and a stove inside the room, which would make it an apartment, it wasn?t hooked up.
Burbank said while her daughter slept there at night, she ate, showered and did her laundry in the main house.
The Building Department was tipped off about the so-called illegal apartment when it received a complaint from a Portsmouth man who said he stayed in the addition.
According to Barbara, that man was her daughter?s ex-boyfriend and his complaint was made out of anger.
The man stated he stayed there and had concerns about the safety of the bedroom over the garage because there is no secondary means of egress in case of an emergency.
After receiving the complaint, Schultz obtained a warrant from Hampton District Court to inspect it.
On Nov. 19, Schultz along with Assistant Building Inspector Chuck Marsden, accompanied by a Hampton police officer, inspected the place and confirmed there was a two-bedroom apartment, a kitchen and a laundry area.
"The original permit was only for an addition to the existing garage, but there has also been a great deal of additional construction throughout the entire area above the garage itself," states the lawsuit. "No permits have been issued or applied for as to this work."
In addition, the findings also confirmed there was no second means of exit, windows that don?t meet requirements for escape, and construction lacking the required fire separations between the apartment and the garage bellow.
As a result of that inspection, Schultz declared the building unsafe for human occupancy.
Burbank said the charges are untrue.
"It?s inconvenient that I have to defend myself," said Burbank.
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 08, 2005, 06:44 AM NHFT
As a result of that inspection, Schultz declared the building unsafe for human occupancy.
Burbank said the charges are untrue.
"It's inconvenient that I have to defend myself," said Burbank.
She should not have to waste time defending herself. I wish we had the manpower to defend her home, so that she could just ignore the city.
If we had that, we could rip of that sign the city put on the garage and let them get back to their lives. :)
Hell! It is up to her to determine if it is fit for living, not some bureaucrat!
I'm sure some nursing home would be far superior to an apartment specially constructed for her, and family to care for her. >:(
I just received an email from Barbara Burbank. I have asked permission from her to post it here. It seems that there is NO plumbing in the floor for the sink (which was being stored in the garage, along with the stove), no electrical outsets for the stove, either. The washing machine was not hooked up either. Again, no plumbing for it. Just being stored.
A reputable real estate agent is going to testify for her, as I understand it.
Kevin Schultz is a power hungry fool.
Here is Barbara's email to me:
Hello Alan,
Thank you for your support - we really do appreciate it.
Our immediate problem was that the building inspector lied about what he found here. So, my first hope is to get the truth out and I am collecting "evidence" of what is really here and what is not. I have a letter from Jackson Simpson, a well respected real estate broker who has been in Hampton for many years. In the letter he explains that he inspected the property and that we do not have a "full kitchen" because we have no working sink or stove and also do not have plumbing underneath the floor that could provide water to the area, nor do we have gas pipes or electrical to lead to the stove top area. He also explains that his inspection found that a washing machine is simply "stored" in an area that has no plumbing available for hookup (the hoses and papers are still inside the machine). He explains that that area of the garage would be considered storage areas only.
We have added wall partitions there, but no heat, electric, or plumbing.
The papers haven't talked about the fact that my aunt could not have her elderly family and friends here for Thanksgiving dinner because the main part of our home is not handicap accessible in that the only toilet facilities downstairs is a tiny half bath that can't be entered with a wheelchair or walker. Sadly, our family friend, Brooks, from Portsmouth who is in a wheelchair and uses oxygen could not come this year because of the Town's posting that it is "dangerous". The addition we added to the garage has a half bath on the ground floor that can be used by him and also by my aunt's one remaining sibling, her brother. It is sad isn't it that a Town would interfere with a family who is trying to take care of each other. But, I know that I am not the only one with this problem.
I can't tell you how good it feels to have support, we have felt very alone in this battle for the last few years and very confused about how a Town here in New Hampshire (Live Free or Die!) could go to such an extreme against us.
I guess right now it is just important to get the real story out because the Hampton Union published a terrible article yesterday. They misquoted me and also claimed that the Town "confirmed" violations.
My aunt will be 96 years old on the 23rd of February, and I am hoping she will enjoy a "happy birthday" without worry about losing her life savings and more! I've attached a photo taken last year during a happier Thanksgiving. It took us a few photos to capture a family portrait, but we did it!
Thank you again,
Barbara
Wow
Seeing what just a sparse handful of activists can get up to in New Hampshire is the best example of what can happen when there are THOUSANDS of people willing to throw in a hand to work for greater liberty. ?This is awesome!
Now I've said this before, and I'll probably continue to say it for years to come. ?Attack the bad law. ?Attack the selective enforcement. ?Avoid personally insulting the enforcer. ?These are the tactics of the people who don't have reason behind their arguments. ?It's difficult not to follow the path blazed out by those already in power. ?They've long since given up attacking the ideas in favor of attacking the proponents of the ideas. ?This does little to explore the merits of the idea, and immediately turns off a segment of the audience who might agree with you, if they hadn't tuned you out.
Not to say those tactics won't be used against us. ?We've already seen the words Kathy Sullivan broke out when she learned libertarians were coming to New Hampshire. ?If only one side appears to be a raving lunatic, the other side may get some credit for at least staying civil. ?Just a thought . . .
Quote from: JonM on January 08, 2005, 11:11 AM NHFT
Seeing what just a sparse handful of activists can get up to in New Hampshire is the best example of what can happen when there are THOUSANDS of people willing to throw in a hand to work for greater liberty. ?This is awesome!
Now I've said this before, and I'll probably continue to say it for years to come. ?Attack the bad law. ?Attack the selective enforcement. ?Avoid personally insulting the enforcer. ?These are the tactics of the people who don't have reason behind their arguments. ?It's difficult not to follow the path blazed out by those already in power. ?They've long since given up attacking the ideas in favor of attacking the proponents of the ideas. ?This does little to explore the merits of the idea, and immediately turns off a segment of the audience who might agree with you, if they hadn't tuned you out.
Not to say those tactics won't be used against us. ?We've already seen the words Kathy Sullivan broke out when she learned libertarians were coming to New Hampshire. ?If only one side appears to be a raving lunatic, the other side may get some credit for at least staying civil. ?Just a thought . . .
Excellent points Jon. I shall try to refrain from personnal attacks.
I will continue personal attacks on people that deserve them. :)
I like to follow in the footsteps of the people that founded this country. Some of them refrained from personal attacks and spent their time in reasonable discourse, but others hung governors in effigy and attacked and accused and threatened King George and his representatives by name.
There is plenty of room for many different kinds of action in NH for liberty. Sometimes there will be ideas posted to this forum, that I don't want to participate in, but that doesn't bother me. If some people want to keep things more civil, I will question their thirst for liberty. As this movement grows, we need to keep the goal in mind and not concern ourselves too much with each others flaws.
I hope you don't mind, when some of us come up with bad ideas. You just don't have to participate. :)
Russell,
Keep doing things any way you feel comfortable. I happen to agree with Jon on this, but that doesn't make you, or anyone else wrong, or Jon and myself wrong. Or right. To each his own. Isn't that the very essence of Liberty?
I hope each person that joins our "group" feels the same. I have enjoyed the interaction we have had so far and I am not worried that we will lose the passion for liberty. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on January 08, 2005, 12:18 PM NHFT
I hope each person that joins our "group" feels the same. I have enjoyed the interaction we have had so far and I am not worried that we will lose the passion for liberty. :)
Speaking of "groups", I like the idea of using the umbrella name of Liberty Tree Society to do projects under. If the LP. or RLC, or whichever group takes on projects, it might tend prevent some people who are not supporters of a particular group from participating. Just my thoughts.
I agree. JP came up with that name and it sounds good to me for whatever people might come up with. :)
Three cheers for JP. ;D
The Liberty Tree Society is now the new Sons of Liberty. With women, of course.
Maybe our female members will be our covert operatives...when they are caught, they can reason that it would be impossible for them to be a "Son of Liberty' ;)
Quote from: russellkanning on January 08, 2005, 11:54 AM NHFT
I will continue personal attacks on people that deserve them. :)
I like to follow in the footsteps of the people that founded this country. Some of them refrained from personal attacks and spent their time in reasonable discourse, but others hung governors in effigy and attacked and accused and threatened King George and his representatives by name.
There is plenty of room for many different kinds of action in NH for liberty. Sometimes there will be ideas posted to this forum, that I don't want to participate in, but that doesn't bother me. If some people want to keep things more civil, I will question their thirst for liberty. As this movement grows, we need to keep the goal in mind and not concern ourselves too much with each others flaws.
I hope you don't mind, when some of us come up with bad ideas. You just don't have to participate. :)
Hanging a governor in effigy is a symbolic attack which, in my opinion, differers from ad hominem attacks calling someone a Fascist power hungry pig. It's perfectly ok to attack someone for holding certain ideas. It's fine to attack what they do. But where is the benefit from ad hominem attacks in getting what we want accomplished? Those sorts of things are useful for energizing your base. We don't have a base yet.
I wonder if it might be good to call elected officials there and get support from one or two of them. I can't however find any info on who they are. I do have a list of appointed officials below...
Most notably the apparent villian: Kevin Schultz Building Inspector/Health Officer 929-5911
I was thinking about calling him and asking if there was something he'd like us to know before our protest, if there's something he'd like to say to defend himself. Then in the absence of mitigating revelations I think it would be fun to just call every day and say hi you're a bad guy.
---
Hampton Appointed Officials
Name Position Phone Number
James S. Barrington Town Manager 926-6766
Karen M. Anderson Administrative Assistant 926-6766
Robert A. Casassa Town Moderator 926-3185
Arleen Andreozzi Town Clerk 926-0406
Joyce Sheehan Tax Collector 926-6769
Ellen M. Lavin Treasurer 926-3679
Dawna Duhamel Finance Director 929-5815
Kevin Schultz Building Inspector/Health Officer 929-5911
Chuck Marsden Assistant Building Inspector 929-5911
Robert Charrette Code Enforcement Officer 926-5826
Robert Estey Assessor 929-5837
Angela Boucher Deputy Assessor 929-5837
John F. Harwood Town Planner 929-5913
William L. Wrenn, Jr. Chief of Police 929-4444
Peter MacKinnon Animal Control Officer 929-4444
Hank Lipe, Jr. Fire Chief / Emergency Management Director 926-3316
Christopher Silver Depuuty Fire Chief - Safety & Training 926-3316
Steven Benotti Depuuty Fire Chief - Operations 926-3316
John R. Hangen Public Works Director 926-3202
Doug Mellin Public Works Operations Manager 926-3202
Dyana Martin Recreation Director 926-3932
Rene Boudreau Recreation Dept. Program Director 926-3932
Darren Patch Parks Coordinator 926-3932
Mark S. Gearreald Borofsky, Amodeo-Vickery & Bandazian, P.A. 1-800-225-5852
Good idea, Dada.
When a few of us burned a UN flag, our base was mobilized. It was fun. We have a liberty loving 'base' in NH and they are getting more energized. :)
There is nothing imaginable that could deter me at this point. Regardless of what happens to our initial organizations or efforts, this activist is on a mission and will never give up.
I picked up 1000 flyers from Scott Roth this morning (Scott- we should make that Saturday morning at Gary's Harvest Rest. a regular ritual!)
They are bundled in packs of 100, who wants to come help pass them out next week?!?
JP
Regular ritual it IS then. I enjoyed the visit and look forward to many more, Jim. Thanks again for the fellowship.
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 08, 2005, 07:28 PM NHFT
They are bundled in packs of 100, who wants to come help pass them out next week?!?
Me!!!
Maybe we can make it a central meeting place for breakfast roundtables of the NH Underground. ;D
Quote from: Scott Roth on January 08, 2005, 08:32 PM NHFT
Maybe we can make it a central meeting place for breakfast roundtables of the NH Underground. ;D
Oo! Yeah! Who wants to meet at Gary's Harvest Restaurant next Saturday? Say 9:30 or 10 AM? It is in Wilton, right on Route 101, not far from Keene, Peterborough, Manchester, Nashua.. it is kinda central actually!
JP
Sometime we will have to join you. :)
Saturday, the 15th. We can be there and have the day to help with whatever needs to be done.
Cathleen and Don Converse
Mincin is submitting this to the Herald I think:
Dear friends at the Herald:
You boiled my blood with your article on that Hampton zoning thug's
attempt to destroy part of an old woman's home. And I'm not the only one who's furious.
The out-of-control building inspector's name is Kevin Schultz, and though he may work in Hampton he has forgotten what state he's in. On January 25 his
fellow citizens will pay him a visit to remind him that this is New Hampshire, not
New York. All freedom-loving New Hampshirites are invited to participate in the
demonstration.
Our protest will be in front of the Rockingham County Courthouse, 10 Route 125, Brentwood, NH, Jan. 25, 9:30 a.m. That's when Shultz will face his victims, 95-year-old Myrtle Woodward and her niece Barbara Burbank. There in court he will try to force them to tear down parts of the home and pay over $100,000, all in the name of protecting them from themselves.
Bring whatever props and signs you like, bring your friends, and most importantly
bring your love of freedom. If you've been waiting for the right moment to take
a stand against zoning abuse, you need wait no longer. For more details visit underground.soulawakenings.com
or call Dave at 603____
Good one Dave Mincin 8)
Great, Dave!
Does anyone know how much exactly they're going to be forced to tear down?
Quote from: katdillon on January 09, 2005, 08:02 AM NHFT
Does anyone know how much exactly they're going to be forced to tear down?
It appears that it maybe be their entire garage.
JP
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 09, 2005, 08:31 AM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on January 09, 2005, 08:02 AM NHFT
Does anyone know how much exactly they're going to be forced to tear down?
It appears that it maybe be their entire garage.
JP
I don't think it's the ENTIRE garage. I get the impression it is the addition the put onto it, plus some work done in the garage itself. I could be wrong, though.
Construction guys have got to be sympathetic to ending zoning. These are construction companies in Hampton (there are duplicates):
Nold, Roger - Noldesign Inc (603) 926-3909
Call-A-Craftsman (603) 926-3956
Hastings Custom Cabinet & Furn (603) 926-6878
Inch By Inch Fine Cabinetry (603) 929-9779
Schmidt Charles G G (603) 926-9744
Seacoast Builders & Glass Rpr (603) 474-7332
Windsor Institute (603) 929-9801
Fimbel Paunet Corp (603) 926-6024
Howard Page Aluminum & Vinyl (603) 926-2429
Coast To Coast Paving (603) 926-8633
K Patterson Paving (603) 926-0506
K Patterson Paving Co (603) 225-9393
Max Roads Paving (603) 926-4629
Abc Electrical Svc (603) 926-6780
Conant Electric (603) 929-7997
Parsons Electric Co Inc (603) 926-2923
Robert R Charette & Co. (603) 926-4144
Stebbins Electrical Svc (603) 929-0974
Tritan Electrical (603) 929-1220
Winnacunnett Electric Svc (603) 926-3987
Abc Electrical Svc
(603) 926-6780 11 Homestead Cir
Hampton, NH Map
Carey Construction
(603) 929-9911 1 Ocean Blvd
Hampton, NH Map
Carl Woekel & Son Inc
(603) 926-2870 853 Ocean Blvd
Hampton, NH Map
De Niro Development Corp
(603) 926-6700 1 Merrill Industrial Dr # 210
Hampton, NH Map
Delta Crane Svc
(603) 929-3785 51 Huckleberry Ln
Hampton, NH Map
Devereaux Plastering
(603) 926-0146 19 Burgundy Dr
Hampton, NH Map
Dion Construction Co
(603) 926-7552 6 Mary Batchelder Rd
Hampton, NH Map
Drakes Appleton Corp
(603) 926-4200 1 Park Ave # 7b
Hampton, NH Map
Hampton Concrete Inc
(603) 926-3534 1 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH Map
J T Spaulding Co
(603) 929-4282 4 High St
Hampton, NH Map
K Patterson Paving
(603) 926-0506
Hampton, NH Map
Liberty Construction
(603) 926-6422 17 Barbour Rd
Hampton, NH Map
Mc Crea Lyman
(603) 929-4939 820 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH Map
Mgk Drywall/Plaster
(603) 926-4736 129 Exeter Rd
Hampton, NH Map
Mjc Development Corp
(603) 926-1200 87 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH Map
Modular Home Designs
(603) 929-6201 400 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH Map
Northwind Heating & Air Cond
(603) 929-0544 60 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH Map
Wooster Roofing
(603) 929-0131
Hampton, NH Map
Thanks for that list. I will start calling away... unless someone wants to split it and do half?
JP
P.S. I really like the one called LIBERTY Construction :)
Ok, I need one volunteer, any one volunteer, from the Seacoast preferably to be the treasurer for "Myrtle's Legal Defense Fund". I emailed Tim Condon about what needs to be filed and what not. He said we just need to open a bank account, plain and simple, and keep track of the money in case questions are asked.
JP
You may not get a lot of help from the contractors. Most building law either works to their advantage or, is neutral to them. The customer pays for the cost of compliance.
Plumbers and Electricians are licenced, which means they are protected by law from competition. This allows them to charge 2-3 times as much per hour than a carpenter, painter, or, general contractor can charge for their time.
Lloyd
Contractors are in a bind, because their contracts with customers usually say something like "To be built in compliance with all building codes".
Have seen a number of Seacoast Porc's post here, so just thinking??
Our regular Seacoast Porcupine meeting is scheduled for noon on January 15th.
Thinking we could use that forum to get things coordinated.
Already have a heads up from JP to attend and fill us in, so why not put a plan
together at the same time.
Gateway Family Restuarant
417 Route 108
Somersworth, NH
Please note that our group is inclusive, all interested in promoting Freedom are
welcome.? Do believe this is an excellent opportunity to increase our visibility
and help some folks too!
JP or Alan, thinking it might be a good idea to invite Barbara, and her family.? This
would afford them the opportunity to give us the low down on what has been
happening, and on a more personal level show them that they are not in this thing
alone.? Thoughts?? Would be happy to give them a call and a personal invite if someone
gets me the telly.
Also have some contacts in the State legislature, and will see what I can do to get them
onboard.
BTW....Changed "old woman's" to "elderly lady's" in the editorial! :D
Dave
That is a great idea Dave M. 8)
Quote from: russellkanning on January 10, 2005, 01:31 PM NHFT
That is a great idea Dave M. 8)
Sounds great!
Who wants to help me pass out flyers before the meeting?
JP
If you kids keep this up, Gateway is going to have to send you into another room. ;)
Quote from: John on January 10, 2005, 03:41 PM NHFT
If you kids keep this up, Gateway is going to have to send you into another room. ;)
So mote it be!
JP
Letter from Dave Mincin to the Daily Democrat:
----
Dear friends at Fosters:
There's increasing attention being paid lately to zoning abuse, i.e. the excessive use of zoning laws to force people into poverty and homelessness.
One example of an attempted abuse is the appalling situation in Hampton, where building inspector Kevin Schultz is attempting to fine a family almost $200,000 for building a room on top of their garage...then force them to tear the room down. This despite the fact that they obtained a permit to build the room.
On January 25 Schultz's fellow citizens will pay him a visit to remind him that this is still the Live Free or Die state. All freedom-loving New Hampshirites are invited to participate in the demonstration. Our protest will be in front of the Rockingham County Courthouse, 10 Route 125, Brentwood, NH, Tuesday Jan. 25, 9:30 a.m. That's when Shultz will face his victims, 95-year-old Myrtle Woodward and her niece Barbara Burbank. There in court he will try to force his will on them in the name of protecting them from themselves. We hope you will not stand by and let it happen quietly.
Bring whatever props and signs you like, bring your friends, and most importantly
bring your love of freedom. If you've been waiting for the right moment to take
a stand against zoning abuse, you need wait no longer. For more details visit underground.soulawakenings.com
or call Dave at 603.___
---
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 10, 2005, 01:06 AM NHFT
Ok, I need one volunteer, any one volunteer, from the Seacoast preferably to be the treasurer for "Myrtle's Legal Defense Fund". I emailed Tim Condon about what needs to be filed and what not. He said we just need to open a bank account, plain and simple, and keep track of the money in case questions are asked.
JP
Still need a treasurer.
JP
How about you take donations in cash and hand them to Barbara or just have people make out checks to her directly. :)
I like things simple.
Quote from: russellkanning on January 11, 2005, 08:20 AM NHFT
How about you take donations in cash and hand them to Barbara or just have people make out checks to her directly. :)
I like things simple.
Tim seemed to think there needed to be a visable paper trail in case certain people try to challenge her source of money.
JP
JP, are we going to start handing out flers tomorrow? If so, what time and where do we meet?
AlanM
I heard from a good source that it works well to have 2 people in a car and put rolled up flyers in newspaper tubes.
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 10, 2005, 04:16 PM NHFT
Quote from: John on January 10, 2005, 03:41 PM NHFT
If you kids keep this up, Gateway is going to have to send you into another room.? ;)
So mote it be!
JP
That would be a Salem, Ma. reference? (The witches love saying that.)
lol
Quote from: John on January 11, 2005, 11:23 AM NHFT
That would be a Salem, Ma. reference? (The witches love saying that.)
lol
Actually it is a Masonic reference, but I know all about that too.
JP
Breakfast in Wilton on the 15th is cancelled?
Cathleen
JP...I can help hand out flyers Saturday, but need to be at the meeting by 11:45 am.
Quote from: cathleeninnh on January 11, 2005, 12:48 PM NHFT
Breakfast in Wilton on the 15th is cancelled?
Cathleen
On Saturday, January 15, 2005 I will be eating:
Breakfast at 9:00 AM at Gary's Harvest Restaurant on Route 101 in Wilton, NH.
and
Lunch at 1:00 PM at Gateway Family Restuarant on Route 108 in Somerset, NH.
JP
So, how many are coming for breakfast at Gary's in Wilton?
Quote from: AlanM on January 11, 2005, 10:52 AM NHFT
JP, are we going to start handing out flers tomorrow? If so, what time and where do we meet?
AlanM
I will be getting to Hampton at 10:00 AM tomorrow morning, what is your cell phone number, email it to me at jimcperry@gmail.com. I will let you know where I will be be.
JP
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 11, 2005, 08:36 PM NHFT
I will be getting to Hampton at 10:00 AM tomorrow morning, what is your cell phone number, email it to me at jimcperry@gmail.com. I will let you know where I will be be.
JP
I will be handing out flyers tomorrow at 10:00 AM at:
Hannaford Food and Drug
630 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH 03842-3348
I am supposed to meet Ms. Burbank at 10:30 at her house, then at 11 AM go back to the store. I can only stay until NOON.
JP
GO JIM! ;D
I'm hoping I don't have to work overtime on Saturday. ::)
Quote from: Scott Roth on January 11, 2005, 08:53 PM NHFT
I'm hoping I don't have to work overtime on Saturday. ::)
Oh?
JP
Usually I have to work OT on Monday, Wednesday, Friday and Saturday, as long as there is work to put out. Last week was a breather. I am hoping it will remain that way.
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 11, 2005, 08:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 11, 2005, 08:36 PM NHFT
I will be getting to Hampton at 10:00 AM tomorrow morning, what is your cell phone number, email it to me at jimcperry@gmail.com. I will let you know where I will be be.
JP
I will be handing out flyers tomorrow at 10:00 AM at:
Hannaford Food and Drug
630 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH 03842-3348
I am supposed to meet Ms. Burbank at 10:30 at her house, then at 11 AM go back to the store. I can only stay until NOON.
JP
Jp, I don't have a cell phone. I will meet you at Hannaford Food and Drug at 10:00
Alan
Best wished to you both tomorrow. May you have many on the side of justice.
Quote from: AlanM on January 11, 2005, 09:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 11, 2005, 08:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: jcpliberty on January 11, 2005, 08:36 PM NHFT
I will be getting to Hampton at 10:00 AM tomorrow morning, what is your cell phone number, email it to me at jimcperry@gmail.com. I will let you know where I will be be.
JP
I will be handing out flyers tomorrow at 10:00 AM at:
Hannaford Food and Drug
630 Lafayette Rd
Hampton, NH 03842-3348
I am supposed to meet Ms. Burbank at 10:30 at her house, then at 11 AM go back to the store. I can only stay until NOON.
JP
Jp, I don't have a cell phone. I will meet you at Hannaford Food and Drug at 10:00
Alan
OK, See you tomorrow!
JP
I set up a Liberty Tree Society Cafe Press shop to help raise money for our different things. All money raised from now until January 25, will be donated to "Myrtle's Legal Defense Fund".
Buy now!
http://www.cafepress.com/libertytrees
JP
Nice.
We'll be going to the Seacoast meeting on Saturday, noon and handing out flyers afterward. I haven't got the flyer, though. Will someone at the seacoast meeting have some, or do I need to get a copy to print?
Well, JP and I handed out flyers today in Hampton. Not many people were out and about. Hannaford doesn't allow anyone to hand out flyers on their property, so we went into the center of town. Unfortunately there were very few people to give them to. Had some success though. One fellow was very interested, and might email JP for more info. The weather turned real nasty, so I packed it in. I will do more on Friday.
It was great to meet Lil JP. :)
Quote from: katdillon on January 12, 2005, 07:56 AM NHFT
We'll be going to the Seacoast meeting on Saturday, noon and handing out flyers afterward.? I haven't got the flyer, though.? Will someone at the seacoast meeting have some, or do I need to get a copy to print?
Bring Lots of them
I noticed there are two slots opening up for Hampton's Zoning Board this year. Maybe we should encourage one of the Burbanks to run for one of those slots to help prevent this from happening to other people?
BTW, the petition was denied 3-2. After some marry-go-round of board members during the hearing, four ZBA members were on record as opposing this. Those bad guys' names are:
Mathew Shaw
Rick Griffin
Kevin Sullivan
Jack Lessard
Quote from: katdillon on January 12, 2005, 07:56 AM NHFT
We'll be going to the Seacoast meeting on Saturday, noon and handing out flyers afterward. I haven't got the flyer, though. Will someone at the seacoast meeting have some, or do I need to get a copy to print?
I'll have some tonight.
JP
If you need more, let me know.
<i>Building Inspector Kevin Schultz filed legal action against Burbank and her 95-year-old aunt, Myrtle Woodward, on Dec. 13, asking a judge to order the woman to demolish everything not approved by the town, prohibit further construction and pay the town?s costs and attorney?s fees.</i>
What did this poor woman do to this guy, let her dog poop on his lawn? Geez!
Quote from: Karl on January 12, 2005, 04:26 PM NHFT
I noticed there are two slots opening up for Hampton's Zoning Board this year.? Maybe we should encourage one of the Burbanks to run for one of those slots to help prevent this from happening to other people?
BTW, the petition was denied 3-2.? After some marry-go-round of board members during the hearing, four ZBA members were on record as opposing this.? Those bad guys' names are:
Mathew Shaw
Rick Griffin
Kevin Sullivan
Jack Lessard
Thanks for the great info. We should ask them if one of them wants to run and stop the madness. :)
Quote from: intergraph19 on January 13, 2005, 04:58 AM NHFT
What did this poor woman do to this guy, let her dog poop on his lawn?? Geez!
He probably thinks he is helping make sure every home is "safe" in Hampton. :(
Just received a heads up re the Foster's letter being published.
We should go straight from the Seacoast Porcupine meeting to Hampton with a massive stack of fliers.
If we team up, we can get a lot of them handed out.
What do the flyers look like???
Fancy! Scott does such a wonderful job with the printing!
Regarding the tubing idea (having a passenger put flyers in newspaper tubes while the driver drives)....
We should probably also tube Shultz's neighborhood but ideally with a flyer that makes clear he's their neighbor and what his address is.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 13, 2005, 10:02 AM NHFT
Regarding the tubing idea (having? a passenger put flyers in newspaper tubes while the driver drives)....
I always wondered what to call those little boxes for newspapers underneath the USPS mailboxes in rural areas.? I have to admit my imagination was running wild with what you could have meant when you first made your suggestion.
There is even a tool for stuffing tubes on the passenger side of the car.
http://www.raksystems.com/tubestuffer.htm
Might be worthwhile investment, if this becomes a popular avenue of delivering fliers.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on January 13, 2005, 08:43 AM NHFT
We should go straight from the Seacoast Porcupine meeting to Hampton with a massive stack of fliers.
If we team up, we can get a lot of them handed out.
What do the flyers look like???
I have the remainder of the flyers that I haven't divided up, which is about 500.
How many people want to crusade about on Saturday after the meeting?
I will be there to talk about this project.
JP
Russell, Kira and I are going out after the seacoast meeting, too. We should confer about what areas have already been hit.
Quote from: katdillon on January 13, 2005, 01:46 PM NHFT
Russell, Kira and I are going out after the seacoast meeting, too. We should confer about what areas have already been hit.
I will stop at Town Hall tomorrow and get a precinct map. We can discuss logistics and tactical information about the invasion at the meeting.
JP
I didn't know we were sending invasion forces.
The porcupines are coming! The porcupines are coming! Quick, hide your bureaucrats!!
It felt fun :)
JP
Quote from: Karl on January 12, 2005, 04:26 PM NHFT
I noticed there are two slots opening up for Hampton's Zoning Board this year.? Maybe we should encourage one of the Burbanks to run for one of those slots to help prevent this from happening to other people?
Maybe we could talk them into it or get some other decent people to run. That way we can be supporting change, instead of just "protesting". :)
Quote from: russellkanning on January 13, 2005, 02:15 PM NHFT
Quote from: Karl on January 12, 2005, 04:26 PM NHFT
I noticed there are two slots opening up for Hampton's Zoning Board this year. Maybe we should encourage one of the Burbanks to run for one of those slots to help prevent this from happening to other people?
Maybe we could talk them into it or get some other decent people to run. That way we can be supporting change, instead of just "protesting". :)
Indeed. Can everyone make breakfast in Wilton on the 22nd? I want to make this a regular Saturday morning thing for three reasons: one, I love you guys; two, I love breakfast at Gary's; and three, we need to be able to discuss, face to face different ways to help the Woodwards and Burbanks of NH, especially Myrtle and Barbara.
If everyone can be at breakfast on the 22nd, 9:00 AM, then we can eact and discuss our goals with this. As was pointed out last night -- we have no safety net, no Plan B if they lose in court.
JP
Quote from: russellkanning on January 13, 2005, 05:47 AM NHFT
Quote from: intergraph19 on January 13, 2005, 04:58 AM NHFT
What did this poor woman do to this guy, let her dog poop on his lawn? Geez!
He probably thinks he is helping make sure every home is "safe" in Hampton. :(
Probably. You know what they say about power and corruption. Unfortunatly those who feel their cause is righteous are the most dangerous.
Breakfast? ?Dis somebody say breakfast? ?I'll be there,,,if there's no OT.
Yike so much for stealth!! The Dover group really pretty much has it's hands full with
the election effort, but will mention it to them Saturday morning, perhaps some of them
might be able to make the protest in Hampton.
Lloyd my responsibility is to tube ward 1 in Dover, and really could use your help Sunday
if you are staying over. ;) It's really alot more effecient if two people can make the run.
Don't believe I can help much with the effort Saturday afternoon...though it slay me...
have to watch the Steelers play at 4:30pm.
Hey it's a homeboy thing!! Looking forward to them playing New England next week, and
just have to turn off the freedom stuff in those time slots! ;D
Dave
Quote from: russellkanning on January 13, 2005, 05:47 AM NHFT
Quote from: intergraph19 on January 13, 2005, 04:58 AM NHFT
What did this poor woman do to this guy, let her dog poop on his lawn?? Geez!
He probably thinks he is helping make sure every home is "safe" in Hampton.? :(
Although the building inspector may have been overzealous, I don't think focusing on him is going to produce much good; in fact it is a distraction. The building inspector enforces the law as laid down by elected officials. It is the elected officials on the ZBA who committed the primary wrong by denying a variance they should have granted way back in 2002. I say focus on them, and forget about the building inspector.
I can't agree that we should lay off the inspector. He ought to be made at least uncomfortable in his job. He deserves lots of flak in my book. People should think twice before taking or staying in a job where they end up doing things that look bad and are bad. We need to encourage principled actions and living. He ought to be ashamed of himself. I hope he can't sleep at night.
Cathleen
Quote from: cathleeninnh on January 13, 2005, 06:43 PM NHFT
I can't agree that we should lay off the inspector. He ought to be made at least uncomfortable in his job. He deserves lots of flak in my book. People should think twice before taking or staying in a job where they end up doing things that look bad and are bad. We need to encourage principled actions and living. He ought to be ashamed of himself. I hope he can't sleep at night.
Cathleen
I can't agree with that. I don't mind tossing a few irritated comments his way while in a forum, but I think protesting him would be counter productive to the cause. You don't want this sort of movement to be labeled as fanatical trouble makers by bothering people who are not responsible for what you are protesting. The issue at hand is not in the inspectors hands to fix, so why waste energy on him when he has no real power? Don't allow emotion to cloud your judgement on the action to be taken.
I understand what you guys are saying, but I have to go with Cathleen. When do you stop holding a job or taking orders to fine little old ladies. :(
I have been there. I left a well paying job because what I was expected to do was defensible but just not right. And when I hear the "he's just doing his job" argument, I can't help but think "there is someone who wouldn't stick to his own principles".
Cathleen
I think we are all able to name the town in Germany where the "I was just following orders" defense came to an end.
Quote from: cathleeninnh on January 13, 2005, 08:21 PM NHFT
I have been there. I left a well paying job because what I was expected to do was defensible but just not right. And when I hear the "he's just doing his job" argument, I can't help but think "there is someone who wouldn't stick to his own principles".
Cathleen
I'm not defending this guy. I'm saying why waste your energy on some one inconsequential to the fight. He can't change the laws. He's not my favorite inspector, and most of them do get quite high and mighty with themselves, but what can he do? Other than soothing our own ruffled feathers over his pettiness, what would protesting him accomplish? Nothing. Paper the man's house and call it day if you must, but focus on changing the law, then he has nothing to use against this woman.
Yes. According to Don Gorman, the inspector has no authority to use his judgement in these cases. It is the Zoning Board that can issue a variance if they so wish.
He can quit and get a real job.
He can ignore all, but, the most obvious infractions of the law, like turning your ranch house into a 6 story apartment building or installing an assault driveway, or something!
When resources are limited, activities are best directed toward the action which will do the most good. ?Now whenever you're doing to do something that will require more effort than blinking, you should ask yourself, "What is the best possible outcome of this action? ?What is the worst possible outcome?"
The true results will land somewhere in between those two answers. ?If the best possible outcome is not far away from the worst possible outcome, then the action may not be worth the time taken to perform it (assuming the worst possible outcome is not a good one).
As I understand the circumstances, the ex-boyfriend is using the power of the state to get back at his ex-girlfriend. ?Don't attack the building inspector for doing his job, loathsome though it may be. ?If you're going to bring him into the fight, do it because he's a patsy of the ex-boyfriend, not because you think he's a fascist. ?Making that sort of parallel may diminish the value of our point.
If he indeed lied about the state of the apartment then he's not only a patsy, but he's a collaborating patsy. ?But we all should have plenty of experience between what reality is and what gets printed in the paper to know that you shouldn't lambaste someone because of what a reporter says they said or did.
Don't worry about whether we are wasting our time JonM. If you don't want to participate in a certain activity, just ignore us. Then when something comes along you like jump right in. I am having fun protesting the building inspector. Each one of us will emphasize a different idea connected with zoning and every other issue. Please don't rain on our parade. Some of us might be crazy, but it is a happy, friendly, good kind of crazy. ;D
I promise not to question your ideas when they come along. :)
I am not questioning your ideas.
I am not questioning your effectiveness.
I am not questioning the value of what you are doing.
Please do not suggest that I am.
My point may have been lost. Protesting the office of Building Inspector a right thing to do. The office of Building Inspector does not have friends and family who are culturally trained to defend it, even when they know what the office did was wrong.
The person who holds the office of Building Inspector has friends. He has family. Even if those friends and family know what he did was wrong, our culture has trained them to defend him against attack anyway. Those friends and family have even more friends and family, who are also trained to side with those they know against those they do not. While this particular building inspector may not have the right sort of friends and family for this thing to spiral out of control into the world of dire unintended consequences, there's no saying someone else down the line might not.
Now it is just my opinion, and I have never told you not to do what you want to do. This is a low risk situation, but others may come later where that is not the case. Bringing personal attacks into a policy matter detracts from the focus on the policy problem. If too much focus is diverted to a building inspector who is not using his discretion to ignore what he thinks are violations of the law by trying to equate him to Nazis trying to exterminating an entire race of people, the rush of his friends and family to defend his person against these attacks may steal focus from the original problem, the government making unreasonable restrictions on what a citizen can do in his or her home. In my opinion, that would be undesirable.
This sort of thing is why nationally we can't seem to make any progress on the big scary issues, too many people would rather attack the people proposing change than discuss the value of the change. It may be a fantasy that we could break that mold, but I don't think I'm wrong in trying to move us towards that. Since it's still a free country on paper, you're still welcome to ignore my nonsensical ramblings. I know your goal is in the same direction as my own.
Good :) We can all work towards the goal of more freedom through different means.
I am not big on changing laws, but some people are so I say go for it. The NHLA is taking this case to the statehouse and I am glad.
I just like attacking the official who is bringing suit against innocent ladies. ;D
Since I am a long ways away from Hampton I am just trying to get the word out and attend a protest. JonM are you interested in helping these ladies or is this particular issue not that important to you? If you are, what are you going to do? Karl B might need help at the NHLA and some guys are helping pass out literature on Saturday. :)
JohnM,
While I agree with you about the futility and, possible danger of making it personal with this building inspector, the idea of an 'informational' protest sort of appeals to me. Nah, probably also futile. ;D
However, as a teenager, I once witnessed the guy who, later, turned me on to libertarianism, have a conservsation with a cop and talk him into quitting the police force!
Lloyd
I actually got anothe email from Representative Nancy Stiles:
Good Afternoon Kat,
I did follow up on your letter. In speaking with our Town Manager,
James Barrington, this morning he confirmed that this issue is in litigation,
therefore I really can't comment or pass judgement without knowing all
the facts. I suspect that the issues on both sides will be addressed and I
feel confident that the correct resolution will be reached. I would suggest
that any questions in this regard be directed through our town manager.
Representative Stiles
So if it wasn't in court she could have an opinion, but she can't now?
I believe the orginal request for a variance was turned down 3-2. Do we know who the 3 are? Seems like they
are the real power behind this, and should be held accountable. Is't the zoning boards function to grant reasonable
exceptions? Surely this was a reasonable request.
I think you can find a post by Karl with some names of people that currently oppose this variance...
Hmm... I wonder if money is somehow a factor in this...
Just a thought, doesn't lead anywhere yet... but worth looking into i suppose.
JP
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 14, 2005, 10:28 AM NHFT
JohnM,
While I agree with you about the futility and, possible danger of making it personal with this building inspector, the idea of an 'informational' protest sort of appeals to me.? Nah, probably also futile. ;D
However, as a teenager, I once witnessed the guy who, later, turned me on to libertarianism, have a conservsation with a cop and talk him into quitting the police force!
Lloyd
I think protests are a great way to draw attention to problems. Sadly, I am employed a bit too far away to make it to the protest at the courthouse, and I am much grateful to those who are able to attend for taking the time to do so.
What is being done to Myrtle isn't right, and the residents of New Hampshire should be made aware of it. The building inspector probably believes he's doing the right thing, and there are ways to convince him that this is not the case. I'd be willing to bet your guy didn't talk the police officer into quitting the force by belittling him.
There are two issues. One, is the building inspector right or wrong. If the appliances and fixtures he says make it a standalone apartment which are in violation of the zoning laws are truly hooked up and in violation, the building inspector did nothing wrong in his eyes, he is merely enforcing the law as written. We may not hold him in much esteem for doing that job, but if he ignored it the ex-boyfriend might have tried to make him look bad for not enforcing the zoning laws. Who knows?
If, as Myrtle contends, the devices are just being stored there, the best you have against her is intent to violating the zoning laws, which I do not believe is illegal yet. If so the building inspector overstepped his bounds.
The second is the inherent rightness of 5 people to dictate to the entire town how they are able to use their property. That's the issue that has better potential to raise awareness, in my opinion.
And Russell, so long as the law exists, it can be dusted off and selectively used against those the majority (or the minority in power) don't like. We'll never be free so long as the tools to oppress remain in the hands of those who presume to dictate our lives to us. If Hampton had no zoning laws and took care of these matters with deed restrictions, Myrtle would have to contend with her neighbors to get permission to modify her house. That still not wide open freedom, but if you enter into a deed restriction knowing what you can and can't do, then there is no issue with having to go through the proper channels to modify it if and when you decide it no longer suits you. The people on the other side of town have no interest in what she does with her property. The people living next door may, depending on what exactly she wants to do.
In the short term, the most likely good outcome would be that she not be found in violation of the permits. After that is to get her the variance she needs. Long term would be to address the ability of 5 people to dictate to you how you use your property. The best way to get her the variance is public pressure through raising awareness of the problem, as you're trying to do.
I would say that building inspector was not doing his job very well even if the law states that he can inspect people homes against their will.
The various taxes that the British tried to extract from the colonies might have still been on the books after the Rev. War but nobody payed them. :)
The basic rational behind building inspection is to ensure that someone doesn't build a building which may cause damage to someone else's building, by say, collapsing on it or catching fire and engulfing the neighbor's house as well, or its occupants who may not be the builders.
The market may be able to come up with a better way to perform this, but the genesis of the idea was not founded out of malice, even if in some cases that is what it has evolved into.
Quote from: JonM on January 14, 2005, 12:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 14, 2005, 10:28 AM NHFT
JohnM,
While I agree with you about the futility and, possible danger of making it personal with this building inspector, the idea of an 'informational' protest sort of appeals to me. Nah, probably also futile. ;D
However, as a teenager, I once witnessed the guy who, later, turned me on to libertarianism, have a conservsation with a cop and talk him into quitting the police force!
Lloyd
I think protests are a great way to draw attention to problems. Sadly, I am employed a bit too far away to make it to the protest at the courthouse, and I am much grateful to those who are able to attend for taking the time to do so.
What is being done to Myrtle isn't right, and the residents of New Hampshire should be made aware of it. The building inspector probably believes he's doing the right thing, and there are ways to convince him that this is not the case. I'd be willing to bet your guy didn't talk the police officer into quitting the force by belittling him.
There are two issues. One, is the building inspector right or wrong. If the appliances and fixtures he says make it a standalone apartment which are in violation of the zoning laws are truly hooked up and in violation, the building inspector did nothing wrong in his eyes, he is merely enforcing the law as written. We may not hold him in much esteem for doing that job, but if he ignored it the ex-boyfriend might have tried to make him look bad for not enforcing the zoning laws. Who knows?
If, as Myrtle contends, the devices are just being stored there, the best you have against her is intent to violating the zoning laws, which I do not believe is illegal yet. If so the building inspector overstepped his bounds.
The second is the inherent rightness of 5 people to dictate to the entire town how they are able to use their property. That's the issue that has better potential to raise awareness, in my opinion.
And Russell, so long as the law exists, it can be dusted off and selectively used against those the majority (or the minority in power) don't like. We'll never be free so long as the tools to oppress remain in the hands of those who presume to dictate our lives to us. If Hampton had no zoning laws and took care of these matters with deed restrictions, Myrtle would have to contend with her neighbors to get permission to modify her house. That still not wide open freedom, but if you enter into a deed restriction knowing what you can and can't do, then there is no issue with having to go through the proper channels to modify it if and when you decide it no longer suits you. The people on the other side of town have no interest in what she does with her property. The people living next door may, depending on what exactly she wants to do.
In the short term, the most likely good outcome would be that she not be found in violation of the permits. After that is to get her the variance she needs. Long term would be to address the ability of 5 people to dictate to you how you use your property. The best way to get her the variance is public pressure through raising awareness of the problem, as you're trying to do.
I would say that this inspector felt some need to do this to this woman. I have known several building inspectors and they rarely bother to go out of their way unless some one irritates them in some way. I hate to lump them all into this sort of group, but my personal observations are what they are. However, he was within the law to do what he did.
As I recently posted in another topic when asked if I would attend the protest, protesting isn't really my style. I don't live in that community so I really have no business protesting their laws. That's up to the people who live there to determine. I would prefer to see a movement to inform and educate the people there, to inspire them to work on getting this woman's situation straightened out. It is not my place to go to their community and work to change their laws.
From what I understand, the ex-boyfriend of the daughter (of Myrtle's niece) living at the house got annoyed and narc'd them out to the town, which sent the building inspector over to substantiate the ex-boyfriend's claim of an "unlawful" apartment.? Were it not for the ex-boyfriend the inspector would not have gone to the house.
Maybe someone will burn the ex-boyfriend in effigy ;D
Note I'm composing to the building inspector. Feedback and corrections welcome:
---
Dear Mr. Schultz:
I've read about your dispute with Barbara Burbank and her family, as well and the coming storm of protest that is expected to result. In these remaining days of calm, before the fight becomes more personal and positions calcify...before events spin out of the control of their would-be masters and beyond the boundaries of Hampton...
I beseech you to consider these thoughts.
In America most of us hold - or held at one time - beliefs both common and hurtful, widely accepted yet morally wrong. In times pre-Revolutionary it was a belief in the divine right of kings. During the civil rights struggle it was a faith in racial superiority. Today it is the assumption that government exists, in part, to protect individuals from themselves...that it should be able, with relative ease, to inject itself into our homes, dividing up our families in the name of protecting them.
Holding this belief doesn't make one a bad person, just as racism didn't make its every subscriber a devil. But the belief is wrong nevertheless, destined to generate eventual resistance when imposed. And you are about to impose it one time too many, in a manner more harsh than a free people can bear.
Winston Churchill once said: "Never give in...except to convictions of honor or good sense."
Despite what people are starting to say...I am sure you have both. And it is never wrong, never craven...to submit to either. Men like Fidel Ramos, Oscar Schindler and Mikhail Gorbacev did this in their time, and history has rewarded them.
Sometimes people in positions of power step back and take a breath, a soul-searching look at themselves and their purpose. Usually it happens because a people simply stand before them and tell them they are wrong. The wise official listens to these discomforting pleas and acts upon them while there is still time, before conflict sears his name into history as a synonym for injustice.
I urge you to display greatness, to do what General Ramos did in the Philippines when he declined to fire on his people.
There are probably a hundred honorable ways out of this kind of dispute, known better to you than to me. None of them involve bankrupting or evicting 95-year-old women and their families. None of them involve large fines, either.
You have a great deal of power. I ask you to prove you have a sense of honor big enough to match it.
P.S.: Feel free to give me a call before the 25th if you want to discuss this; I'm eager to know if there's something I'm missing or some reason why you should not be the focus of this resistance. Though not a primary organizer of it, sometimes people listen to me.
Very, very nice approach. Thank you for your effort.
Best of luck!
One thought: Also inviting him to write or email would give him options he may be more comfortable with.
Oh here is an answer if anyone gives us grief for not being Hampton residents:
One could say that if we *were* Hampton residents we would be at risk of retaliation by Hampton authorities for opposing them. So in a sense it's almost better we're just from the state. Also during the civil rights struggle there were folks who travelled a thousand miles to help people fight oppression - no one thinks that was wrong and those folks were not even from the same states.
Racist Southerners thought it was wrong.
It seems to me the truth of the message is more important than the actual messenger. :)
Final version sent today via his e-mail:
kschultz@town.hampton.nh.us
----
Dear Mr. Schultz:
I've read about your dispute with Barbara Burbank and her family, as well and the coming storm of protest that is expected to result. In these remaining days of calm, before the fight becomes more personal and positions calcify...before events spin out of the control of their would-be masters and media attention becomes a media spotlight...
I beseech you to consider these thoughts.
In America most of us hold - or held at one time - beliefs both common and hurtful, widely accepted yet morally wrong. Before the Revolution it was a belief in the divine right of kings. During the civil rights struggle it was a faith in racial superiority. Today it is the assumption that government exists, in part, to protect individuals from themselves...that it should be able, with relative ease, to inject itself into our homes, dividing up loving families in the name of protecting them. This view affects almost everyone in the state to some degree, not just Hampton residents.
Holding such a belief doesn't make one a bad person, just as racism didn't make its every subscriber a devil. But the belief is wrong nevertheless, destined to generate eventual resistance when imposed. And you are about to impose it one time too many, in a manner more harsh than a free people can bear.
Winston Churchill once said: "Never give in...except to convictions of honor or good sense."
Despite what folks are starting to say...I am sure you have both. And it is never wrong, never craven...to give in to either. Men like Fidel Ramos, Oscar Schindler and Mikhail Gorbachev did this in their time, and history has rewarded them.
Sometimes people in positions of power step back and take a breath, a soul-searching look at themselves and their purpose. Usually it happens because a people simply stand before them and tell them they are wrong. The wise official listens to these discomforting pleas and acts upon them while there is still time, before conflict sears his name into history as a synonym for injustice.
I urge you to display greatness, to do - roughly speaking - what General Ramos did in the Philippines when he declined to fire on his people during the '85 revolution.
There are probably a hundred honorable ways out of this kind of dispute, known better to you than to me. None of them involve bankrupting or evicting 95-year-old women and their families. None of them involve large fines, either.
You have a great deal of power. I ask you to prove you have a sense of honor big enough to match it.
Feel free to give me a call or e-mail before the 25th if you want to discuss this; I'm eager to know if there's something I'm missing or some reason why you should not be the focus of this resistance. Though not a primary organizer of it, sometimes people listen to me.
Yours,
(gave him my phone number)
So who is going to be able to attend the event on the 25th?
ME!
280 mile round trip.
Can we give Lloyd another star?
How about that instead? :)
So who else is going to make it? Are there other groups that are going to be there like the Coalition of NH taxpayers?
Ok let's see here...How about we game this out a little bit and make sure we've thought through what may happen *after* the protest and think about what each of us may want to do then.
If things go badly for the Burbanks in court...what do we do?
If they go well what do we do?
If the results are mixed, how would we handle that?
If there is an unanticipated result...what should the reaction be? Presumably these could include delays in the hearing, a postponement of the decision, a secret deal...
Having said that...here are some brainstorms for more things we could do, any of which would hopefully be entertaining for the public.
1) Have a bake sale or flea market sale to benefit the Burbanks.
2) Make a replica of the "condemned building" sign Schultz put on the Burbanks' garage. Put Schultz's address on it instead of Myrtle's. Place it in front of his yard (i.e. on the right of way...maybe on a stick).
3) Show up in front of the building inspector's house with a bulldozer.
No one should trespass on private property, though, I think that would be wrong. I'd tend to think media should be invited to whatever we do...and always try to be kind to them! Not overhelpful, just kind. Always good to make video and still pic record of events...Kira is great at the stills but video is important too. If word leaks out about a controversial protest beforehand...no sweat, that will just draw more attention to whatver it is we're about to do.
Before doing anything in his neighborhood it would be a good idea to meet some of the people who live there and be up front with them about what we're planning. They may not like it but at least if we meet them in person first they won't be as freaked out later.
For for what it's worth, personally I do not like the idea of crossing into civil disobedience anytime soon. That is something you do to attract media attention and for now we're already accomplishing that. If it works don't fix it. Maybe someday when the media is bored with lawful stunts then civil dis becomes a wise course. I'm just speaking for myself; I realize individuals may do their own thing but that is just my thinking. I like the idea of leaving room for improvement, room for escalation. This is street theater not street war...
80% chance I will be there.
I'll be there!!!
We need to start planning where and when we want to meet and such. Do we have a more local person than me (like Alan M.) who can scope out the location and that sort of thing? It would be good to have a definite meeting place set up way ahead of time. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on January 20, 2005, 06:58 AM NHFT
We need to start planning where and when we want to meet and such. Do we have a more local person than me (like Alan M.) who can scope out the location and that sort of thing? It would be good to have a definite meeting place set up way ahead of time. :)
The Courthouse is off by itself, not in a downtown location. If most people will be coming to Brentwood via Rt. 101, a possible meeting spot is McDonald's, right off 101 at the intersection of Rt. 125.
Sounds good.
The courthouse is definitely a possibility.
Can you scope the courthouse out? I am thinking we could possibly do our event inside also. If there are not a lot of people to see us outside then why not be inside. We are just peaceful citizens. I don't see any reason we would be barred from being in the building. :)
But if we have to be outside, them maybe having a place to meet like the McDonalds would be good.
Suggestions for signs?
Zoning destroys families.
Hampton persecutes 95 year old woman!
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 19, 2005, 09:29 PM NHFT
Ok let's see here...How about we game this out a little bit and make sure we've thought through what may happen *after* the protest and think about what each of us may want to do then.
If things go badly for the Burbanks in court...what do we do?
If they go well what do we do?
If the results are mixed, how would we handle that?
If there is an unanticipated result...what should the reaction be? Presumably these could include delays in the hearing, a postponement of the decision, a secret deal...
Having said that...here are some brainstorms for more things we could do, any of which would hopefully be entertaining for the public.
1) Have a bake sale or flea market sale to benefit the Burbanks.
2) Make a replica of the "condemned building" sign Schultz put on the Burbanks' garage. Put Schultz's address on it instead of Myrtle's. Place it in front of his yard (i.e. on the right of way...maybe on a stick).
3) Show up in front of the building inspector's house with a bulldozer.
No one should trespass on private property, though, I think that would be wrong. I'd tend to think media should be invited to whatever we do...and always try to be kind to them! Not overhelpful, just kind. Always good to make video and still pic record of events...Kira is great at the stills but video is important too. If word leaks out about a controversial protest beforehand...no sweat, that will just draw more attention to whatver it is we're about to do.
Before doing anything in his neighborhood it would be a good idea to meet some of the people who live there and be up front with them about what we're planning. They may not like it but at least if we meet them in person first they won't be as freaked out later.
For for what it's worth, personally I do not like the idea of crossing into civil disobedience anytime soon. That is something you do to attract media attention and for now we're already accomplishing that. If it works don't fix it. Maybe someday when the media is bored with lawful stunts then civil dis becomes a wise course. I'm just speaking for myself; I realize individuals may do their own thing but that is just my thinking. I like the idea of leaving room for improvement, room for escalation. This is street theater not street war...
This, I believe, needs to be discussed. My suggestion is to make this part of our Saturday breakfast agenda.
JP
Quote from: katdillon on January 20, 2005, 11:39 AM NHFT
Suggestions for signs?
Property Rights are Human RightsThere was a group called "Small Property Owners Assoc." in and around Boston who fought against rent control in Ma. (Don't know if they are still around.) . . .
The LP of Ma. had a bumper sticker which said "Rent Control is Theft - Property Rights are Human Rights". I think keeping it simple is sometimes better. . .
I will not be able to make it on the 25th.
Quote from: katdillon on January 20, 2005, 11:39 AM NHFT
Hampton persecutes 95 year old woman!
maybe change that to "elderly women"...these won't be the last people they persecute :'(
I have a lot of sign ideas but they are written on a diff computer... will post them in a day or two.
one that springs to mind is:
Myrtle is our Rosa Parks
Also if there is a law proposed as a result of this, I think we should call it "Myrle's Law" or "Myrtle's Bill"
Really need to have pics of Myrtle on some signs if possible
Other thoughts:
Zoning Kills Owning
SCHULTZ
2 STALAG
13
Any ideas for entertainment at our protest?
I am working on a poem but keeping it in reserve to read at the second or third protests on this issue if need be.
It will be a poem that chronicles Mr. Schultz's bravery in entering that old woman's house and working to protect the world from her dishwasher.
In the meantime I would maybe like to read my letter to Mr. Schultz and let the crowd know his response....although so far he hasn't responded.
I have megaphone we can use but it's fun to just converse and not have long speeches. Oh the megaphone can play monophonic tunes...maybe i can program hogans heroes. Or maybe one of you can bring a boom box and play hogans heros on that LOL.
SHULTZ!
Maybe I should counter protest ;D
"Myrtle must be stopped"
"Not in my backyard"
"Myrtle's gotta go"
"I love zoning"
"I love to zone"
Schultz - born to zone
I am wondering how activists here would respond to people seeing the protest who say, "But it is reasonable to want to limit land use in my area."? Would activists here respond that any land use restrictions are wrong, or would they suggest the use of deed restrictions or some other ethical method for achieving similar ends?
I am an advocate of deed restrictions, and I have been surprised that many libertarian activists I know disagree with their use, even when? a selling and buying party agree to the restrictions.? These libertarians say that you cannot restrict ownership on a piece of property.? Either you own all the use rights to it or you are not really the "owner".? I say that limiting the ability of a buyer an seller to make a deal with enforceable restrictions attatched is the impermissible act of aggression against the parties to the deal, even if they invest rights to restrict land use in a third party, like a neighborhood association.
Note: I ask the indulgence of moderators to allow brief responses here, where it is relevant to the zoning protest, rather than moving it to a philosophy discussion thread.? I personally, just want to get reactions and will not respond with debate.
Deed restrictions are fine. Buyer and seller both agree. Except where it may force/require particular votes in an association.
Quote from: russellkanning on January 21, 2005, 08:09 AM NHFT
Maybe I should counter protest ;D
"Myrtle must be stopped"
"Not in my backyard"
"Myrtle's gotta go"
"I love zoning"
"I love to zone"
Schultz - born to zone
"Myrtle, a danger to the community!"
Deed restrictions seem to be the way to go, but, I'm not sure how you would employ them in an existing neighborhood without the agreement of all owners. It would be easier to employ in a new neighborhood, or, even better, a neighborhood built cooperativly by the owners who are in agreement about the limitations.
If Myrtle turned her house into a six story tower, I could see her neighbors taking her to court over it.
Lloyd
"Evil building developer Myrtle"
"Stop Myrtle"
Quote from: russellkanning on January 21, 2005, 11:33 AM NHFT
"Evil building developer Myrtle"
"Stop Myrtle"
Russell, we want to HELP her not crucify her!
LOL
JP
Myrtle must go
You guys are a big help. ::)
I hope Myrtle doesn't read this part of the thread without reading back.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 21, 2005, 09:24 PM NHFT
I hope Myrtle doesn't read this part of the thread without reading back.
Likewise!
JP
Anyone up for a little candle lite vigil at the Town Offices (or elsewhere), Sunday, 7 PM?
That might be possible. We might could do that, if the snow stom's not too bad.
Quote from: katdillon on January 22, 2005, 05:26 AM NHFT
That might be possible. We might could do that, if the snow stom's not too bad.
Hmm... I believe I have a class that night.... I'll double check.
JP
More sign ideas for our Jan 25 protest:
We need to signs that have pics of Myrtle on them!
What should those signs say?
Maybe...
Myrtle is our Hero
Myrtle for Governor
Save Myrtle from the Zoning Thugs
SCHULTZ
2 STALAG
? ? 13
FIGHT
ZONING
NH33.COM
(that is an abbreviated URL Ian just set up for us that points directly to NHunderground.com. he also set up NHfree.com the same way if you have space for it.
FIGHT
ZONING
ABUSE
NH33.COM
ZONE
THIS!
NH33.COM
ZONERS
RUIN
OWNERS
NH33.COM
ZONING
KILLS
OWNING
NH33.COM
HELP END
ZONING
ABUSE:
NH33.COM
(picture of Myrtle)
"Myrtle is our Rosa Parks"
(picture of Myrtle)
YES TO
"MYRTLE'S
LAW"
(picture of myrtle)
"Pick on someone your own age"
Help Keep
NH Free
NH33.com
I like the NHfree.com thing 8)
I also like the
Zone this!
idea
Anyone bringing extra signs? I don't think I can put one together in time. I want to be holding something, preferably, that doesn't , actually, threaten any town officials!
Lloyd
"Let Myrtle live"
Has anyone done a reconnitor in Brentwood for a place to meet?
There is a McDonalds at 148 Portsmouth ave in Exeter.
The McD's in Epping is closer. It is at the intersection of 101 and 125.
OK, meet at the McDonalds in Epping at what time?
Has anyone notified the press?
Yes. A TV station is supposed to be there, actually.
Hey Dave Mincin...how many people from your area are planning on coming Tuesday morning?
Alan, Lloyd, and myself from the Seacoast Region that I am aware of. Please accept my apology for not putting more
effort into this. Pot's a little full. Most of our folks don't spend much time on the computer, but I'll sent them a note today, see if we can get some help.
Are we meeting at the Micky "D" before hand? If so what time and I will get a note out.
Dave,
Don't forget to contact Cathleen from Portsmouth! 8) 8) 8) :P
Quote from: davemincin on January 24, 2005, 12:35 PM NHFT
Are we meeting at the Micky "D" before hand?? If so what time and I will get a note out.
I think they are. I guess that would have to be before 9:30am.
I don't think Kat and Kira can make it by then, so they will catch up with you later. :)
Quote from: davemincin on January 24, 2005, 12:35 PM NHFTPlease accept my apology for not putting more effort into this.?
I was just trying to get a feel for how many people are coming.
The court date has been postponed until we don't know when. Jim Perry will still be there protesting tomorrow.
I'm thinking that the Thursday night meeting with the zoning board will be the best time to show up and make a stink. I wont be there tomorrow.
Thanks for the heads up Kat. Don't see any purpose if the case has been postponed.
I'll be heading up to Concord tomorrow for the hearings.
OK :) Sounds like DaDa Dave will be there tomorrow. Lloyd sounded like he may come Thursday night instead.
In what seems to be an effort to avoid the Liberty Tree Society's protest of family-destroying zoning laws, it appears that the Rockingham County Superior Courthouse has rescheduled the January 25 hearing of the Myrtle Woodward and Barbara Burbank zoning case to a date yet undetermined.
The Liberty Tree Society, a group of liberty-minded New Hampshire citizens, announced on January 6 that they will hold an anti-zoning demonstration in front of Rockingham County Superior Court at 9:30 AM on January 25, 2005 in support of 95 year old Myrtle Woodward and her niece, Barbara Burbank.
Despite the actions of the Superior Court, the Liberty Tree Society has announced that the protest will take place as planned tomorrow, Jaunary 25, 2005 at 9:30 AM at the Rockingham Superior Courthouse.
We are still asking for all pro-freedom, pro-liberty residents of the State of New Hampshire and in all other New England States to come out to Rockingham County Superior Court on January 25, 2005 at 9:30 AM to show your support to Burbank and Woodward, to protest our government's use of authority to break up families and destroy private property
rights and to let our government know that we are still moving forward with this project.
For more information contact Jim C. Perry of the Liberty Tree Society at 603-891-1934 or by email at jimcperry@libertytrees.net
Quote from: Jim "JP" Christian Perry on January 24, 2005, 03:44 PM NHFT
In what seems to be an effort to avoid the Liberty Tree Society's protest of family-destroying zoning laws, it appears that the Rockingham County Superior Courthouse has rescheduled the January 25 hearing of the Myrtle Woodward and Barbara Burbank zoning case to a date yet undetermined.
Not meaning to take the wind out of your sails...
It was probably a scheduling conflict with one of the attorneys.
Quote from: Erethizon on January 24, 2005, 04:04 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jim "JP" Christian Perry on January 24, 2005, 03:44 PM NHFT
In what seems to be an effort to avoid the Liberty Tree Society's protest of family-destroying zoning laws, it appears that the Rockingham County Superior Courthouse has rescheduled the January 25 hearing of the Myrtle Woodward and Barbara Burbank zoning case to a date yet undetermined.
Not meaning to take the wind out of your sails...
It was probably a scheduling conflict with one of the attorneys.
Nope, not at all. I have discussed this with Barbara. Whether it was or not is not the point. The point is, we are trying toget public sentiment in our favor. So yes, your post certainly takes wind out of our sails - ESPECIALLY if the press reads your post.
JP
Quote from: davemincin on January 24, 2005, 03:26 PM NHFT
Thanks for the heads up Kat.? Don't see any purpose if the case has been postponed.
I'll be heading up to Concord tomorrow for the hearings.
Barbara Burbank is still going to be there, so we can show her our support.:)
She had to take the day off work to meet the demands of the stinkin' bureaucrats. :(
Quote from: Erethizon on January 24, 2005, 04:04 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jim "JP" Christian Perry on January 24, 2005, 03:44 PM NHFT
In what seems to be an effort to avoid the Liberty Tree Society's protest of family-destroying zoning laws, it appears that the Rockingham County Superior Courthouse has rescheduled the January 25 hearing of the Myrtle Woodward and Barbara Burbank zoning case to a date yet undetermined.
Not meaning to take the wind out of your sails...
It was probably a scheduling conflict with one of the attorneys.
There could be lots of reasons, but what strikes me is that they have not yet rescheduled it. Usually when courts/judges/lawyers need to reschedule they find a new time. Maybe the lousy building inspector didn't want to face anyone. :)
I was just wondering if the Hampton officials didn't want to face a possible unruly mob. I know how bad some of you guys can get. ;)
Since Barbara is going to be there on Tuesday, it would still be great to have as many people as possible show up. Kat will try to make it tomorrow also. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on January 24, 2005, 05:15 PM NHFT
Quote from: Erethizon on January 24, 2005, 04:04 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jim "JP" Christian Perry on January 24, 2005, 03:44 PM NHFT
In what seems to be an effort to avoid the Liberty Tree Society's protest of family-destroying zoning laws, it appears that the Rockingham County Superior Courthouse has rescheduled the January 25 hearing of the Myrtle Woodward and Barbara Burbank zoning case to a date yet undetermined.
Not meaning to take the wind out of your sails...
It was probably a scheduling conflict with one of the attorneys.
There could be lots of reasons, but what strikes me is that they have not yet rescheduled it. Usually when courts/judges/lawyers need to reschedule they find a new time. Maybe the lousy building inspector didn't want to face anyone. :)
I was just wondering if the Hampton officials didn't want to face a possible unruly mob. I know how bad some of you guys can get. ;)
Its possible the building inspector's masters, who may be up for re-election soon, decided this issue is generating too much attention and told him to make this "go away".
I think we should try have this protest be as big and bad as possible even if the date has changed. I'm now 95% sure I'll be there, I've finished my sign and it says
Zoning
Kills
Owning
NH33.com
I also have a full signmaking kit to give away to whoever can make good use of it, however I don't have an extra sign. I'm planning to head straight to the courthouse rather than McDonald's.
Also after the Tuesday protest maybe we can go tubing (putting flyers in people's newspaper boxes) around Brentwood. Has that area been hit yet? The old flyers will work if we add a date to them for the second protest. I'm assuming that will be Thursday the 27th outside the zoning board meeting wherever that is. Need a location on that before tomorrow...
Someone please call tonight with an update...
Ian
Quote from: FTL_Ian on January 24, 2005, 11:33 PM NHFT
Someone please call tonight with an update...
Ian
What number do I call and you mean tonight meaning Tuesday, Jan 25 yes?
JP
800-259-9231 after 7p EST, yes tonight.
Regards,
Ian
Quote from: FTL_Ian on January 24, 2005, 11:36 PM NHFT
800-259-9231 after 7p EST, yes tonight.
Regards,
Ian
I shall call.
JP
I decided to come today, too. I'll bring two signs...now sure what yet.
Quote from: katdillon on January 25, 2005, 04:25 AM NHFT
I decided to come today, too. I'll bring two signs...now sure what yet.
I'll be there, of course, withmy fantabulous sign "Zoning Laws Destroy Families"
JP
P.S. If anyone wants to create their
own sign today, I will bring some of my old James Perry for Planning Board signs. You can use the back to make a sign. I don't have extra markers though and am very hesitant to bring my only set with me to potentially lose.
JP
Why tomorrow?
BTW, I'll be late and showing up straight to the courthouse.
Quote from: katdillon on January 25, 2005, 04:53 AM NHFT
Why tomorrow?
BTW, I'll be late and showing up straight to the courthouse.
Sorry, I have been in the habit all day yesterday of saying tomorrow to the press. LOL
JP
"Hampton persecutes lady, 95"
"Don't zone my home"
doing up those signs now
So how did it go?
My thought is things when smashingly, not to mention a good dose of NH winter! ;)
The Herald sent a writer, and photographer...and channel 9 a film crew.
Later in the Day Dada and I attending the hearings in Concord. Incidently Dada testified,
and was the only one to recieve a standing ovation! :D
P. S. Perhaps if you would communicate a little better with your wife you might have a better
idea of what happened! ;D
Here are the photos:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=7
Imagine what it will be like to do sign holdings when it isn't freezing out . . .
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4129138/detail.html
from the TV station
Quote from: katdillon on January 25, 2005, 05:06 PM NHFT
Here are the photos:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=7
That horrible image of 'Lloyd Thinking' that ought to be deleted was probably me being bumm :Ped out about sending John to the wrong bookstore.
Still awaiting a call..
There's a communist on the phone right now.
Ian
We're chatting.
It went great.
The TV segment was great.
The cold was great.
Barbara was great.
Update regarding the speculation over why they cancelled or postponed Myrle's hearing:
One of the former state reps who's been following this (and holds local elected office nearby) tells me his theory is that the judge hunted down one or more of the officials in Hampton and told them he doesn't want this case in his courtroom, perhaps believing it is an unjustified case. He goes on to theorize that this may have had to do with the advance publicity, perhaps including the publicity we generated. However when I say "theory" I am being cautious. The ex rep says he is almost sure this is what happened. Time will tell! But I got on free talk live tonight and passed this theory on to the nation....
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 25, 2005, 10:55 PM NHFT
Update regarding the speculation over why they cancelled or postponed Myrle's hearing:
One of the former state reps who's been following this (and holds local elected office nearby) tells me his theory is that the judge hunted down one or more of the officials in Hampton and told them he doesn't want this case in his courtroom, perhaps believing it is an unjustified case. He goes on to theorize that this may have had to do with the advance publicity, perhaps including the publicity we generated. However when I say "theory" I am being cautious. The ex rep says he is almost sure this is what happened. Time will tell! But I got on free talk live tonight and passed this theory on to the nation....
Glad you did! I was out cold by like 3 this afternoon and woke up a few hours ago. Still tired, so heading back to bed now LOL.
JP
Here's a work of art (http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jgmaynard/FaceCrim.jpg) for you all.. :D
Someone DID get a recording of the TV segment, right? ;) And it IS being digitized as we speak. Correct? ;)
JM
I watched it online:
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4129138/detail.html
Shultz finally speaks!
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/01262005/news/61060.htm
Quote"So you don?t have a chemical factory next to a church," Schultz said in explaining the purpose behind zoning regulations. "It?d be kind of scary, especially when you have a school or a church or a residential area."
Looks like the judge didn't order this to "go away" this idiot still wants to play ball. The only thing "scary" is knowing that he's running around, and YOUR grandmother could be next!
You guys are doing great so far! Keep up the pressure!
Ian
"It'd be kind of scary..."
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jgmaynard/FaceCrim.jpg)
This is the face that scares Shultz??!?
Shultz.............
<bad German accent>
He knows NOTH-ING!
</bad German accent>
JM
Are we looking at showing up at the zoning meeting Thursday night?
I'll be back in Concord tomorrow so really need a heads up on this soon.
OK guys, what's the plan for tomorrow night? Russell, Kira and I can be out to Hampton by 6:30.
I propose we meet at Burger King at 6:30
603 Lafayette Rd, Hampton
The Zoning board meeting is at 7:00 at the town offices:
100 Winnacunnet Rd Hampton
Selectman's room
Quote from: katdillon on January 26, 2005, 10:21 AM NHFT
OK guys, what's the plan for tomorrow night?? Russell, Kira and I can be out to Hampton by 6:30.?
I propose we meet at Burger King at 6:30
603 Lafayette Rd, Hampton
The Zoning board meeting is at 7:00 at the town offices:
100 Winnacunnet Rd Hampton
Selectman's room
Cool
I'll be early
I've got extra candles, but, I could use a sign.
also, we learned on election day that signs on long sticks can rest on the ground, freeing one hand, or, allowing you to hold stick against your body while keeping your hand in your pocket.
I'll bring some sticks
Any possibility of meeting a wee bit earlier? Thinking we want to be at the zoning meeting by
6:30 so we can catch the folks going in. Perhaps 6:00 or 6:15.
Lloyd, i have some stuff to put a couple signs together.
OK, 6:00. I'm not sure we can be there that early, but can try.
Super...I'll see what I can do to round up some folks.
See you there.
btw - NICE INK!
Super John!
BTW Lloyd...talked to Catherine last night, and waiting for her to get back to me re joining us tomorrow night! ;)
Quote from: davemincin on January 26, 2005, 12:48 PM NHFT
Super John!
BTW Lloyd...talked to Catherine last night, and waiting for her to get back to me re joining us tomorrow night! ;)
Well, you answered my next question, Dave.
It will be great to show our smiling mugs at another place. They just can't seem to get rid of us. ;D
Lloyd Catherine is stuck in the snow in CT. She's going to try and get home tomorrow, and make the gig!
Also Michele, and Jim are going to join us tomorrow night. Thinking it might be a good idea to bring flashlights
so our signs can be seen! ???
Oh yea, Jane is going to post the event on nhlibertycalendar.org...so hey, never know!
Jim you working on the press?
Anyone heard from Alan? He's close!
Dave
Quote from: davemincin on January 26, 2005, 05:56 PM NHFT
Lloyd Catherine is stuck in the snow in CT.? She's going to try and get home tomorrow, and make the gig!
Also Michele, and Jim are going to join us tomorrow night.? Thinking it might be a good idea to bring flashlights
so our signs can be seen! ???
Oh yea, Jane is going to post the event on nhlibertycalendar.org...so hey, never know!
Jim you working on the press?
Anyone heard from Alan? He's close!
Dave
Where in CT, I'll dig her out! ;D
(http://trinitygrafx.com/libertytreesocietyflag.gif)
Liberty is definitely taking root and it will grow rapidly with the tireless work that is taking place amongst the Liberty Tree Society members.
You all are fantastic! George Washington would be proud and I am with you in spirit though my flesh may be weak LOL.
Lori
OK, I printed 4 photos of Mytle...for whoever wants signs. All are on 8.5x11 paper.
Quote from: Lori on January 26, 2005, 07:28 PM NHFT
(http://trinitygrafx.com/libertytreesocietyflag.gif)
Liberty is definitely taking root and it will grow rapidly with the tireless work that is taking place amongst the Liberty Tree Society members.
You all are fantastic! George Washington would be proud and I am with you in spirit though my flesh may be weak LOL.
Lori
Lori, canyou make that graphic about 100% larger? I could use it on the Liberty Tree website as the logo.
Quote from: Jim "JP" Christian Perry on January 26, 2005, 08:17 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lori on January 26, 2005, 07:28 PM NHFT
(http://trinitygrafx.com/libertytreesocietyflag.gif)
<SNIP>
Lori, canyou make that graphic about 100% larger? I could use it? on the Liberty Tree website as the logo.
I'd also suggest the text that begins:? "Liberty, when it begins..." be a dark color, because it gets lost in the red background.
Otherwise, a GREAT graphic!!
Quote from: BlueLu on January 26, 2005, 08:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jim "JP" Christian Perry on January 26, 2005, 08:17 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lori on January 26, 2005, 07:28 PM NHFT
(http://trinitygrafx.com/libertytreesocietyflag.gif)
<SNIP>
Lori, canyou make that graphic about 100% larger? I could use it on the Liberty Tree website as the logo.
I'd also suggest the text that begins: "Liberty, when it begins..." be a dark color, because it gets lost in the red background.
Otherwise, a GREAT graphic!!
Agreed. And make the blue a little less contrasting. The graphic it self is truly WONDERFUL
JP
p.s. Thanks for making it Lori!
Dress warm Thursday night. The high in Hampton on thurs. is 14 degrees. Thats the high!
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 26, 2005, 09:17 PM NHFT
Dress warm Thursday night. The high in Hampton on thurs. is 14 degrees. Thats the high!
WAHOO that is WARM!
JP
Quote from: davemincin on January 26, 2005, 05:56 PM NHFT
Anyone heard from Alan? He's close!
Dave
Sorry, Dave. I work from 2-10 PM. Can't make it.
Alan
JP,
As you can see I made it bigger and I took the advice I was given about the text colors I hope it is better. You sure you want it 100% bigger? LOL Well you can size it down easy enough, but it may be too big it seems to me as a logo at this one. :)
Keep warm. Hoping to get to see you soon, but life is getting in the way. >:(
Lori
Are we going back the 17th? Hey leader Jim!! Expect I can to dig up some folks, but would prefer to be able to give them some lead time....So what's the plan?
My thinking is same plan...Burger King at 6...zoning board meeting at 6:30...what say you? ???
Dave
That's my time line.
Gee, another day when 12-hour-shifts won't get in the way.
LET'S ROLL! 8)
Since the hampton thing drags on I thought I would let someone over there in authority know we haven't forgetten them.
Called the ZBA vice chair
Jennifer Truesdale
(603) 929-9070
Basically I left my name and number, introduced myself as being from NHfree.com and left her roughly this message
Got some questions for you regarding the status of your board's conflict with barbara burbank and myrtle woodward.
I'm not a journalist, more like a blogger. I'm not pretending to be neutral, but i will be accurate and will faithfully report the main points of your answers to the NHfree webstie. .
what is the current status of the case?
were you on the board when this conflict began?
what , if anything, did you do to prevent the levy of a 180,000 dollar fine against myrtle and barbara?
what is your goal in handling their situation? Are you trying to win? just trying to end it? just trying to drag it out?
from a moral standpoint, how right or wrong do you think it is for a governing body to make determinations about what people build on their own property, assuming that the construction does not hurt neighbors?
are you hoping to take additional action against the burbanks at at time when no one is looking?
has this situation proven to be uncomfortable for you?
i've also swapped some email with barbara and basically the situation is just dragging on .
Thanks for the updates.