:Dollar_-_Silver: :Dollar_-_Silver: :Dollar_-_Silver:
Yesterday, a guy was hassling me to vote and do all sorts of political crap. He wouldn't let up. So I suggested, "If you want us to vote, why don't you just buy our votes?" Well, he loved the idea, and the Sell out the Vote Campaign was born. When it gets closer to an election, Russell and I will put up our votes on ebay and sell them to the highest bidder. I think it's so much more honest about the way politics works - we don't need a politician to bring home the porkbarrel project or give us welfare, but cold hard cash, sure thing! The City of Keene refused to take us off the voter list, so probably some Democrat has been voting for us. Why continue to waste our vote when we could earn some money? We'll put an article in the paper about the campaign soon.
Want to join us?
My hat is in the ring! ;D I will sell my vote along with you.
Are you tired of throwing away your vote as a libertarian?
...not anymore baby. You can cash in on the NH advantage.
Do you wish you could vote in an early primary for Ron Paul? I can do it for you. If you are the highest bidder, I will walk in ... declare my party status for the day ... and pull the lever for the candidate of your choice.
So what is the next election here in Keene?
Why should only the politician cash in on this game?
What you are proposing is illegal :/ People have been arrested for it in the past.
Yeah what are you guys thinking...
This must be an oversight, I know your respect for law and order.
;D ;D ;D
OK I couldn't keep a straight face.
Quote from: thinkliberty on August 06, 2007, 06:53 PM NHFT
What you are proposing is illegal :/ People have been arrested for it in the past.
Show me the law!
I am already taking bids for the presidential primary. When does that happen again ... next year?
My first offer was for something else in the future. I will let you know the date and specifics later.
Right now I am registered in Keene, so I will formally offer my vote for anything I can vote on in my part of Keene. The next thing might be a revote on the school budget. If you are a teacher, my vote for a budget increase is available.
This just seems like the right thing to do.
;D 8)
Back in 2000 I think there was a website to trade votes. It was deemed inappropriate, maybe illegal.
The idea was that if you were in a state like, oh, RI where a non-Democrat vote is just adding noise to the signal you could exchange your vote withsomeone in Iowa or Florida.
Heh, I didn't find THAT website, but I found this report on a vote auction:
http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/analysis/2132050/online-vote-trading-takes-election?vnu_lt=vnu_art_related_articles
Quote from: Dan on August 06, 2007, 09:26 PM NHFT
Back in 2000 I think there was a website to trade votes. It was deemed inappropriate, maybe illegal.
Yea ... that would just be wrong. I will be the one to vote for myself. I just can be influenced.
Quote from: Dan on August 06, 2007, 09:26 PM NHFT
The idea was that if you were in a state like, oh, RI where a non-Democrat vote is just adding noise to the signal you could exchange your vote withsomeone in Iowa or Florida.
I can't really see how someone in someplace like Florida would want to trade with you in RI. What would be the incentive for them?
the last surviving vistages seem to be at:
http://www.vote-auction.net/
[V]ote-auction
- Bringing democracy and capitalism closer together -
UBERMORGEN.COM, 2000-2006
Voteauction was a Website which offered US citizens to sell their presidential vote to the highest bidder during the Presidential Elections 2000, Al Gore vs. G.W. Bush.
The Website was conceived by the student James Baumgartner and then sold to the austrian business-artists Hans Bernhard (founder of etoy [5]) and Lizvlx from UBERMORGEN.COM[1] in Austria and (V)ote-auction Inc. in Sofia/Bulgaria [a subsidiary of the UBERMORGEN.COM group] for a undisclosed sum. Voteauction was UBERMORGEN.COMs feature Media Hacking performance in the year 2000.
Several US States (Missouri, Wisconsin, Chicago, Arizona, Nevada, California, Massachusetts, New York) issued temporary restraining orders or injunctions for alleged illegal vote trading. This led to the shutdown of 2 domains (voteauction.com and vote-auction.com)[10]. Federal Attorney Janet Reno, the FBI and the NSA were investigating the case to ensure the integrity of the voting process on november 7th, 2000.
Over 2500 global and national News features in online media, print, television and radio have been reported (including a 27 min. CNN exclusive "Burden of Proof")[2].
"[V]ote-Auction" is one of most risky and paradoxically successfull projects by UBERMORGEN.COM: it is "the only platform in the world that provide the final consumer an effective role in the American election industry". A true interchange system that finally "brings capitalism and democracy closer together".[9]
The Voters:
50% of the voting age population routinely stays home on election day. Are they fed up with the system? Are they disappointed by the two major parties? Are they desensitized by the thousands of political ads they see on Television? [V]ote-auction.com will allow these voters to profit from their democratic capital. By offering their voting capital at auction, these traditionally non-voting citizens will be participating in the democratic process and the expanding economy.
The campaigners:
Voteauction.com also provides a more efficient method for campaign investors to obtain their objectives. When a major communication company contributes over a million dollars to a political party, do they hope that this investment will result in increased profits? Of course they do! Although they may have a net worth of billions of dollars, most corporations do not spend 1 million dollars without some hope of a return on their investment. Unfortunately, 10-15% of this investment is taken off the top by the campaign consultants. [V]ote-auction.com allows campaign investors to get their dollar's worth by connecting them directly with the voters.
cnn report about it :
http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0010/24/bp.00.html
A short history of the U.S.A. Election Market
From the "Father of our Country," George Washington, to the mafia-connected political bosses of the prohibition era, to today's politicians funded by "soft money", big money has often had an important influence on United States elections.
Here are a few examples of vote-buying in America:
In 1757, George Washington ran for a seat in the Virginia House of Burgesses. For this election he purchased more than a quart and a half of alcoholic beverages for each of the 391 voters in his district.
A candidate in the 1838 New York mayoral election paid $22 per uncommitted vote.
In 1907, Congress passed legislation to prohibit corporations from making direct campaign contributions for federal candidates. Unions were banned from making the same types of contributions in 1947. By the late 1960's and early 1970's candidates began ignoring these laws by accepting large donations. Insurance executive Clement Stone gave $2.8 million to Richard Nixon's 1968 election campaign. The Milk Producers Association gave $2 million for Nixon's re-election campaign in 1972. (Nixon subsequently supported an increase in milk price subsidies.) Although these instances are examples of big corporations purchasing influence with candidates as opposed to purchasing influence with voters, it is significant that the donations were made to Nixon's campaign. This money was then used to pay for advertising, and other expenses. It is media advertising that now influences the voter.
Paul Allen (co-founder of Microsoft) purchased the Seattle Seahawks in 1997. He then called for a referendum to ask for $300 million in state money to build a new stadium. Instead of obtaining the thousands of required signatures necessary to put an issue on the ballot, he simply paid for the costs of the election. He then spends over $4 million in advertising to convince the people of Washington to vote for the new stadium. The result: The Football/Soccer stadium is expected to be finished in 2002.
WILLIAM WOOD, CHIEF COUNSEL, SECY. OF STATE OF CALIFORNIA: Very briefly, what this individual has described is illegal in California. The basis in California, of course, of your vote, is that you cannot sell it, you cannot offer to sell it, you cannot buy people's votes. That has been the law in our state for some time.
VAN SUSTEREN: Is it a quid pro quo, though? Or how different is it from this, sort of, like, you know, you give your $1,000 campaign contribution on November sixth and November eighth you show up at your Congressman's office and say: Remember me? I'm a big contributor. I would like to talk to you about some project? How is that different?
WOOD: Well, it's absolutely different because it's fundamentally different. The actual buying of the vote is just that. It is that simple. It is the buying of some individual's vote. One of the things in the United States that we have prized above all is the vote. It is an inalienable right. And in every state in the United States, to my knowledge, the process of buying or selling votes is illegal. It is a federal violation.
maybe the better way to say it is...
If you want to influence my vote best .... don't fund a campaign or stop in my town and shake hands ... give me some money. :)
We could also have a picnic where campaigns have the opportunity to "influence" many voters directly. ;)
STUART BIEGEL, INTERNET LAW PROFESSOR UCLA: Well, selling votes is not legal. We need to start with that. But the question is, is that really happening here? This site started as a masters thesis and was sold to Hans. Clearly Hans has stated that they're not actually buying and selling votes. So, in reality, this could just be a form of satire or street theater, and if so, arguably protected under the First Amendment.
I bet Roger will like some of the other stuff these guys are doing:
http://ubermorgen.com/2007/pressfolder/UBERMORGEN_PRESS_E.htm
maybe we will have to contact them and get the site rolling again for the primaries and 2008 presidential election.
I have never been so excited about politics before. Isn't Democracy great?
I would want some assurance that you would actually make the vote and not get arrested by the election judges. ;) :P
I promise to keep secret the winning influencer.
The actual winning issue, candidate etc.... will be made public.
I will keep all bidders apprised of higher bids up until right before the vote.
If I am somehow not able to cast my vote, I will not have earned the money and will return it.
We were thinking we could film ourselves in the little booth casting the vote. I could come out after accomplishing the mission and proudly state that I voted for Hillary or whoever and have some evidence that I indeed did vote for that person.
I will start the bidding at +1 karma per day for 4 years.
for which voter ... for which vote?
I have to figure out what the next thing I can vote for is.
I could also start taking bids for the primary and general presidential election.
Vote swapping OK, says court. http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2007/08/06/state/n160624D40.DTL&type=politics
I'll vote money if Russel runs for Keene Mayor. :)
Quote from: Dan on August 07, 2007, 05:41 PM NHFT
I'll vote money if Russel runs for Keene Mayor. :)
I don't quite understand.
You mean Figurehead of Keane, The Shire, right?
well, it doesnt seem a lot different from prostitution, which I think is a lot more honest than trying to convince someone a person only wants to have sex with to have sex with them (in a lot of situations).
Honestly, I'd rather a person just take money from one individual than vote based on what a politician is planning on giving them via the tax payer.
of course, they can pay someone to vote for a person who will rob the tax payer and redistribute the wealth for the 'public' good.
I do know that I will be voting in the NH primary so you can start your "influence offers".
From the Shire wikipedia entry:
Quote
Government
The Shire was a voluntarily orderly society. The only government offices were a postal service and a police force, the Shiriffs, whose chief duties involved rounding up stray livestock. Nominal officials of the Shire were the Mayor of Michel Delving in the White Downs (by extension seen as the Mayor of the Shire); the Thain from Tuckborough, who was the head of the important Took clan; and the Master of Buckland at Bucklebury. The Thain's powers can be compared to those of the Ruling Stewards of Gondor, albeit over a smaller area, in that he governed in place of the King. The Thain also served as head of the Shire-moot, and as captain of the Shire-muster and of the Hobbitry-at-arms; as these positions were only necessary in emergencies (which rarely if ever happened), the role of Thain became a purely ceremonial position. While nominally the Thain ruled over the four Farthings, in practice authority was so decentralized that the title was seen as more of a formality. The Mayor's chief duties were serving as postmaster of the Shire's mail service, presiding over the Shiriff force and presiding at fairs. The mayor was elected for a seven-year term, while the Master controlled Buckland. The Hobbits of the Shire did obey the Rules, but there was no real need to enforce them; all of the Hobbits voluntarily obeyed them as they were both ancient and just. There were lawyers in Hobbit society, but they mostly dealt with wills and such matters. Frodo stated that no Hobbit was ever known to have intentionally killed another Hobbit (even the Elves could not make such a claim of their own race) but this claim was ultimately found to be in error when it was discovered that Sméagol killed his friend, Déagol.
At the resumption of the throne by King Elessar, the Shire became subject to the law of the king enthroned in Gondor, but the law of this king forbade the king himself from entering the Shire because he was not a half-ling.
Funny, this was on /. recently. Is that what spawned the conversation?
Seems the concept of vote swapping is has deemed legal by appeals court decision.
Funny quote from Shagg on slashdot:
QuoteDiebold is already swapping everybody's vote for cash from the highest bidder.
I haven't read slashdot in a long time.
I keep it's feed in my google reader.
The article is here: http://news.com.com/8301-10784_3-9755958-7.html
Here is a blurb:
QuoteAugust 6, 2007 7:08 PM PDT
Vote-swapping Web sites are legal, appeals court (finally) says
Posted by Declan McCullagh
It took seven years, but a federal appeals court has finally vindicated the creators of vote-swapping Web sites that let Al Gore and Ralph Nader fans support their chosen candidates in the 2000 presidential election.
The purpose of the sites, which included the now-defunct voteswap2000.com and votexchange2000.com, was to let a Nader supporter in a state where George Bush might win "swap" his vote with a Gore supporter in a state like Texas where Republican victory was practically assured.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 07, 2007, 08:41 AM NHFT
We were thinking we could film ourselves in the little booth casting the vote. I could come out after accomplishing the mission and proudly state that I voted for Hillary or whoever and have some evidence that I indeed did vote for that person.
I was going to suggest this and you beat me to it. I suggest doing a YouTube video starting before you even enter the polls. Have a hidden camera and film the entire process including punching the ballot and dropping it in the bin. If you want, clip out the actual vote and show that portion only to the buyer and explain the edit in the video.
The best part of the video would be before voting where you explain how your vote has never managed to change anything in any real way. The war in Iraq rages on. Criminal taxation rages on. etc. Politics has always been for sale. You can repeat some of the examples that you posted earlier in this thread. Now your vote is actually useful for something (flash the cash which you have fanned out in your hand like a deck of cards, even if it's just $1 bills).
Those are just my thoughts. I like the idea. I might be willing to do it for the general election conditional on Ron Paul not winning the primary. However, everyone seems convinced he can't win anyway so there's nothing to worry about there, right? hehe. My attitude is "Ron Paul or Bust". If he doesn't win the primary, it's not going to make any difference who I vote for anyway. The machine will rampage on just as it always has since we created the beast. At least Ron will be a wrench in the works and that just doesn't apply to any of the other candidates.
I like your ideas Dalebert .... the only difference for me .... is that I will vote for whoever I am influenced to vote for. :)
I'll give you a silver Ron Paul Liberty Dollar to vote for Ron Paul.
Quote from: Beavis on August 09, 2007, 09:41 PM NHFT
I'll give you a silver Ron Paul Liberty Dollar to vote for Ron Paul.
Woo hoo! The bidding has begun! Capitalism at its finest.
Quote from: Beavis on August 09, 2007, 09:41 PM NHFT
I'll give you a silver Ron Paul Liberty Dollar to vote for Ron Paul.
Let me start a separate thread for the Presidential Primary. :)
Thank you for your potential patronage.
I also accept gold, $s, food ....
Well .... I am auctioning off my vote in Keene this fall. Check it out on ebay
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=300252664258
Cool. Posted to Free Keene (http://freekeene.com/2008/08/23/keene-man-to-auction-his-vote/). Can I send this to my news list? (Sentinel, WKBK, Equinox, etc)
yes ... it is really happening ... so you can publicize it :)
Guess we have to switch to http://www.vote-auction.net/.
so the latest bid is one ounce of silver for my vote in this falls election
this is the screenshot I got when I searched "sell vote"
and ebay took mine down last week
this was the discussion last november
http://freakonomics.blogs.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/is-it-smarter-to-sell-your-vote-or-to-cast-it/
Is it Smarter to Sell Your Vote or to Cast it?
By Ryan Hagen
Half of N.Y.U. students say they would sell their right to vote for $1 million, according to a poll published yesterday by the Washington Square News.
Sixty-six percent said they would trade their voting rights for a free four-year ride at N.Y.U. (roughly $160,000, including room and board). Twenty percent would give up the vote for an iPod Touch (value: $299).
We know that voting doesn't make good economic sense. Dubner and Levitt have written about the utility — or is it futility? — of voting here, here and here. But is it smarter to sell your vote than to cast it?
George W. Bush spent $345 million to win re-election in 2004, according to opensecrets.org, a cost of around $5.56 a vote. John Kerry spent just over $5.24 per vote. Those numbers don't include third party spending, but for the sake of a hypothetical let's just say votes in a presidential election cost $5.50 apiece. It should follow that selling your one vote for $1 million could buy you enough influence to capture 181,818 more. So maybe this poll doesn't demonstrate youth apathy, it demonstrates youth economic savvy. (Then again, if you're a fringe candidate, it's possible to spend vast sums in politics without having any impact whatsoever.)
But how about you? Would you sell your vote for $1 million, or an iPod Touch, or free college tuition? And what would democracy look like if you could?
I think there is demand out there for people to sell their votes.
I am thinking about sellmyvote.info or sellmyvoteonline.com
what do you guys think?
nice >:D
it would probably get rid of all those last minute news stories and man-on-the-street interviews with "undecideds" days before big elections.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on September 01, 2008, 11:53 AM NHFT
so the latest bid is one once of silver for my vote in this falls election
this bid might have been rescinded
Is there anyone out there that wants to buy my vote?
It was my bid and I did not rescind it.
gotcha
so
Ron Paul
Sue Newell
Ken Blevins
Bob Hull
Sounds good to me
I'm thinking you can do better than the oz of AG if you press talk to the right
Lawyer
Are you voting in Keene? You could toss one Varrin's way.
What the Hell did Ian just say???
Quote from: FTL_Ian on November 03, 2008, 09:23 AM NHFT
Are you voting in Keene? You could toss one Varrin's way.
are you paying?
http://www.yahoo.com/s/981744
video of kid selling his vote on ebay
mine only lasted a few hours I think
Nah. Maybe Varrin will, or talk to Mark.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on November 03, 2008, 07:27 PM NHFT
What the Hell did Ian just say???
I think Mark hijacked his computer for a minute or something.