I received a letter from Derry Town Hall Assessor David N. Gomez requesting I call to make an appointment for an interior review of my home. The letter says that a town representative already visited my property to measure the exterior structures to verify the accuracy of the exterior data the town has on file. Now, they want to see the inside of my house, and have requested I call 603-432-6104 by Monday 10/15/07 to schedule an appointment. I have attached the letter with my name and private data blocked off for your review. To me, this request constitutes an unwarranted search, and it occurs to me that they are asking my permission to come in for that reason. However, I do not want to let them in my house, and I want advice on how to prevent it and/or protest the request. The request makes me feel like I am renting this property from a landlord, but I am not. I own the property and have a deed in my name. Is there any way I can stop them from coming in and not face some penalty or unjust assessment to "punish me" for my lack of cooperation? Or should I organize a protest while they are here? Is there anything I can do? Please help. I will leave my name off this request for the time being so the town does not catch wind of my inquiry.
Sincerely,
amanuse
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I own both the land and the house.
If you refuse they will just make a "guestimate" of the market value of the house. It could be higher than it's actual market value. Are you willing to take a chance at a higher valuation?
I'd rather not take a chance of higher valuation, no. However, this law is unjust and must be changed. I have found relevant material at the following two Web sites:
- http://www.ij.org/private_property/new_hampshire/index.html
- http://www.ij.org/private_property/new_hampshire/2_17_05pr.html
It seems clear that others are also trying to fight this, and that it might take a bit longer than I would hope to change things. However, perhaps we can organize a protest at my house when this government official does in fact come to my house. We can have 30-50 people over and make his job very uncomfortable, and video tape the whole thing. Please let me know what you think about this idea and whether you'd be willing to take part. We can set a day and I will try to schedule the appointment for that day and time.
Please let me know what your interest would be in something like this.
Quote from: alaska on September 29, 2007, 04:30 PM NHFT
Quote from: amanuse on September 29, 2007, 03:14 PM NHFT
I own both the land and the house.
You pay taxes on both. You don't and they take them away. So you merely just rent them from the government.
The taxation of capital is immoral.
The requirement for the sharing of the land value that is not attributable to your labor with your neighbors, directly and equally, in exchange for exclusive use is just because exclusive use in a scarcity market of something that has an inelastic supply (land) imposes a cost on those you exclude that if collected by the landowner violates the excluded's absolute right of self-ownership.
So rather than saying the government owns your land and you pay rent on it, this establishes instead that everything not produced by human labor we all have an individual equal access opportunity right to occupy. A Lockean concept.
This is an unpopular view for modern classical liberals but was the mainstream view of Jefferson, Paine all the way up to Nock and Chodorov.
I really don't want to have this debate here. I have no problem paying just taxes on my land and home, but it is my land and it is my home. I have the right to property guaranteed by the Constitution. I pay taxes on property to ensure that the people en mass, aka, the government, provides services around my home and in my community, such as roads and etc.
So just that it's clear, I have no problem paying taxes on my home and land. That is not my concern here. My concern is that a government official is going to force his way into my home without a warrant, and for no probable cause. If you would read the links I provided above, it is easier for the government to conduct this search than to search someone who may be guilty of a crime. I am a law abiding citizen, and I don't want government officials in my house. They can't come in without a warrant. The law that allows them to do this is unconstitutional, and it needs to be overturned. Taxes can easily be assessed on my house from the outside. How well I keep up my house on the inside should not way into the equation. If I applied for a permit to expand my house, then I can see some intervention to make sure I am complying with the building code. That is not the case here. They are just coming in to - I don't really know what.
So again, I am looking for people to come and help me protest this intrusion when it occurs, since it seems impossible to avoid severe penalty otherwise. Legalized extortion anyone? Anyway, no more debate about this. I just want help. I don't want debate on this thread. If you want to debate this, make another thread. okay? So whoever wants to help me let me know.
I *know* nothing, but it *seems* to me like this is a request, structured in a way to make it look like a requirement. They almost blatantly blackmail you with a higher valuation if you do not agree to their inspection of the inside of your home. But notice they "are asking that you call."
If you do decide to allow it, videotaping it sounds like a great idea.
You may want to contact the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance about this. They are very good at keeping track of what State and local governments can get away with. I would talk to them before you fill that form out.
http://www.nhliberty.org/
Good luck and don't give in.
Kate
Most bureaucrats that I've spoken with are pretty cool, if you speak to them calmly, in a positive manner. I feel the same sense of invasion that you probably feel, just by reading your message. So, what I would do is just call them on the phone and tell them that the interior inspection is an invasion of your privacy, and that I would like to know what happens if I were to refuse the interior inspection? Would my taxes be higher? How much higher? etc... If he says that it's a requirement, then ask what happens if you refuse? Do you get fined? Do the police come and force their way in? Be sincere, and the bureaucrat will probably not take offense.
Quote from: EthanAllen on September 29, 2007, 06:28 PM NHFT
QuoteThe law that allows them to do this is unconstitutional, and it needs to be overturned.
There is no law.
Property taxes include unimproved (land) and improved (buildings) values. How are they to assess the building unless they know the quality of the workmanship on the inside?
I live in Texas, and no one ever asks to come into your house when they evaluate it for property taxes. They also allow you to challenge their assessment if you wish.
Welcome amanuse
Others--Please no debates here about renting of land etc.. they don't want a debate.. advice and help.
I think that there is a 'rule/law/requirement' that if you don't let them see the inside of the house that they guess and that you have no recourse to appeal. (I am sure that there is an RSA for that here):
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/search.html
Funny I have someone coming to assess my house on Wed.. although it is for an insurance company so I will allow them.
Dave Ridley has left a message on porc-411 requesting that people assist amanuse because Dave knows him and he's been a free stater for awhile. Dave also requested a verbatim transcription of his message. If someone can transcribe better than I can (or wants to hear Dave's words directly) please listen to the attached file.
-Nat
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Hey ;D Just let it go and let 'em in. It's really no big deal. Hey ya letme in your house ;D. Nothing bad is gonna happen.
Quote from: paw128 on September 29, 2007, 09:00 PM NHFT
Hey ;D Just let it go and let 'em in. It's really no big deal. Hey ya letme in your house ;D. Nothing bad is gonna happen.
But this is how the door opens to more serious violations of our rights. This is a fourth amendment issue.
I'm curious... If the appraiser finds something illegal in the house, does he report it to the police?
Quote from: amanuse on September 29, 2007, 05:58 PM NHFT
I really don't want to have this debate here.
Join the club. In Ethan's world, all paths lead to the same place. He's a troll. Just hit "ignore".
Transcription from Porc 411 Dave Ridley
Dear NHFree User:
Just wanted to let you know you were just left a 0:41 long message (number 1)
in mailbox 16034130411 from Ridley David , on Saturday, September 29, 2007 at 06:30:09 PM so you might
want to check it when you get a chance. Thanks!
..................
Dave Ridley reporting in requesting a verbatim transcription of this message. I'd
Like it if you could post it to the civil disobedience section under the
thread that already exits called town wants to inspect my house. The gentlemen in the post,
the original poster is someone I know who has been a free stater for a
while and I think it would be great if we could help him out.
.................
Amanuse: Unless they have a warrant to enter your home, they cannot. That doesn't mean that they won't try. I had a different experience with Child Protective services. They wanted to enter my home because someone did not like the fact that we home schooled our children. Fortunately, we belong to a legal defense organization for homeschoolers. Long and short of it, we were told by our attorney that under no circumstances were we to let them into our home. We invoked our 4th amendment rights. Of course they tried to intimidate us into letting us in by threats and accusations. They said that we must have something to hide by not letting them in. They totally ignored the fact that our Constitution guarantees that they have no right to enter our home. To deny them did not mean automatic guilt. I think you have to stand on principal in this matter. Once you let them in for one thing they can begin to create whatever circumstance they wish. As to having a protest, I think your waisting your time. Our forefathers already protested for us by fighting and dying to secure our rights. Don't let the beaureaucrats win this one.
We can have 30-50 people over and make his job very uncomfortable, and video tape the whole thing. Please let me know what you think about this idea and whether you'd be willing to take part. We can set a day and I will try to schedule the appointment for that day and time.
This depends on appealing to their sense of shame -- if they have one. Or is the goal just to expose their intrusiveness?
I can help any time after 5:30p.
I have the same curiosity as SnowDog. I don't have anything illegal that I know of in my house. I am protesting out of the principle behind our Fourth Amendment rights, as SnowDog points out. I appreciate the support from him/her and others.
I spoke with neighbors who say our local assessor generally stands on the porch and doesn't come in, but asks questions about the inside, instead (By the way, all of my neighbors received a similar letter). If what my neighbors say is true, than the particular assessor needs support, because he or she is in violation of the unconstitutional law <http://gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/V/74/74-17.htm> he/she is being asked to enforce. Other neighbors have told me they plan to ignore the requests to search their home and protest any attempt to enter forcefully. I don't want to take that approach. As the law is written, I would be forfeiting my right to appeal the appraisal if I were to do that. It's extortion, yes, but I can't change the law through violence. So I seek civil disobedience and all the support I can get.
And, I want a YouTube video out of this experience. I plan to hand the assessor a written letter upon his entry that states he is engaging in a search that he is conducting ONLY under duress of the homeowners. If I have 30-50 there supporting me, maybe he will only stand on the doorstep. But he will have reinforced in his mind that his job is unlawful, for after all, the Constitution is the Supreme law of the land that supersedes every other law.
This law needs to be overturned. I came to New Hampshire to fight for the freedoms our people are guaranteed under the Constitution. I have now found my first mission. I plan to do my part in this battle, and I hope you will, too.
In order to bring a true sense of peaceful (humorous) resistance, my wife is suggesting we throw a "Fourth Amendment Party," with the assessor as the "unwanted guest of honor." We can even give him a dunce hat. Thoughts?
The vote here is fuck them and the horse they rode in on.
As I understand things, the request for an appointment is just that. Not calling them to set an appointment is not the same as refusing to let them in, and would not trigger any penalties.
If they show up and knock on your door, and you refuse to let them in, then that's when you lose the right to appeal the assessment.
Quote from: amanuse on September 29, 2007, 11:19 PM NHFT
In order to bring a true sense of peaceful (humorous) resistance, my wife is suggesting we throw a "Fourth Amendment Party," with the assessor as the "unwanted guest of honor." We can even give him a dunce hat. Thoughts?
It sounds like you married up, too. That's a
good great idea.
Quote from: amanuse on September 29, 2007, 11:19 PM NHFT
In order to bring a true sense of peaceful (humorous) resistance, my wife is suggesting we throw a "Fourth Amendment Party," with the assessor as the "unwanted guest of honor." We can even give him a dunce hat. Thoughts?
Clever and appropriate response I think. Sounds like fun. 8)
According to section I of 74:17, if you don't give consent to the inspector, they will get a warrant. The supreme court in the 60s opened the door for administrative inspections. The crux of the argument is the threat of taking away a right to protest an inaccurate inspection after they got a warrant to inspect your property without your consent. That might be in violation of article 14 of the NH State Constitution.
Perhaps a document can be written. On said document a copy of the 4th amendment and article 14 and 19 of the NH Constitution along with a statement that by entering this house under the duress of RSA 74:17 section II they may be in violation of their oath to the Constitution of the United States of America 4th amendment, and the New Hampshire state Constitution articles 19 and 14. It is possible that an inspector may never had cause to take an oath to the Constitution before, so an oath to both the United States and NH State Constitution should be available on that page for him to recite and sign. For those who would rather rely on just the State Constitution, perhaps a version only listing the state articles could be created.
This document should be made available to anyone who does not wish to let an inspector inside their house.
May we ask what town this is in?
I find it sad how many armchair lawyers spoke up (with mostly bad info), but nobody local pointed this guy to the very person who knows the law and was the plantiff in the IJ case mentioned above: Tony Lekas. Talk to Tony, and he'll explain the lawsuit, the law, and why if you don't submit to an inspection, you lose the right to appeal what assessment they set. You _can_ refuse an inspection, but the penalty is losing your right to appeal.
Quote from: SethCohn on September 30, 2007, 10:22 AM NHFT
I find it sad how many armchair lawyers spoke up (with mostly bad info), but nobody local pointed this guy to the very person who knows the law and was the plantiff in the IJ case mentioned above: Tony Lekas. Talk to Tony, and he'll explain the lawsuit, the law, and why if you don't submit to an inspection, you lose the right to appeal what assessment they set. You _can_ refuse an inspection, but the penalty is losing your right to appeal.
See just what I said... ;D
Quote from: Dreepa on September 30, 2007, 10:35 AM NHFT
See just what I said... ;D
You mentioned the existence of the law (didn't link to it, but otherwise fine), but not the expert in our midst... Let's not reinvent the wheel, but increase knowledge - Tony's been down the road already, and can explain why they lost in court, and the next steps in the meantime...
I just get frustrated at the signal/noise ratio - lots of people who don't know what has gone before speaking up... and that's a great way to stay stuck in the same place. If you want to repeat the same mistakes, just ignore the people who have tread the path before you...
Andrew already has Tony's contact info.
Cathleen
Ditto on the right to appeal.
If they can't see your home, they make an educated guess. If they guess wrong, as they did with me, then you have to allow them to see why they were wrong or else their 'assessment' stands.
The assessor made a big issue of this with me in 1989. He kept saying 'but I would have to come in to see' even after I told him I wanted him to come in and see. I don't know why he thought I'd blocked him because I'd never had the chance to.
When I saw my tax bill I was appalled. What they had done was, base my assessment soley on the PERMIT that the builder applied for. The permit was for the largest house possible to fit on this lot, just in case we expanded in any way, he wouldn't have to reapply. However, the town should have done an "O" inspection (occupancy) just before the house was moved into, and I'm sure they did, but conveniently failed to note it was not 8,000 sq ft but 4,000 and what parts were not finished.
So there were a lot of things in the description that did not even match the assessment card.
The visit was no big deal -- I just followed him around and he looked to see the number of bathrooms, fireplaces, enclosed porches, cellar not finished, extra room over the garage, etc. Once that was confirmed, thousands of dollars were deducted from my bill.
Quote from: Dreepa on September 30, 2007, 10:35 AM NHFT
Quote from: SethCohn on September 30, 2007, 10:22 AM NHFT
I find it sad how many armchair lawyers spoke up (with mostly bad info), but nobody local pointed this guy to the very person who knows the law and was the plantiff in the IJ case mentioned above: Tony Lekas. Talk to Tony, and he'll explain the lawsuit, the law, and why if you don't submit to an inspection, you lose the right to appeal what assessment they set. You _can_ refuse an inspection, but the penalty is losing your right to appeal.
See just what I said... ;D
me too...
Quote from: SethCohn on September 30, 2007, 10:46 AM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on September 30, 2007, 10:35 AM NHFT
See just what I said... ;D
You mentioned the existence of the law (didn't link to it, but otherwise fine), but not the expert in our midst... Let's not reinvent the wheel, but increase knowledge - Tony's been down the road already, and can explain why they lost in court, and the next steps in the meantime...
I just get frustrated at the signal/noise ratio - lots of people who don't know what has gone before speaking up... and that's a great way to stay stuck in the same place. If you want to repeat the same mistakes, just ignore the people who have tread the path before you...
I had no idea that Tony had been down that road.... Simply that I knew I had heard that you couldn't appeal... Didn't link to it because I couldn't find the link but figured that this person could search for it.
I'm not sure what the problem is. Don't you WANT to have a chance to correct a potentially wrong assessment? The assessor can't come in without you being there.
He isn't allowed to look in drawers and closets. He must abide by certain rules and NOT use software made for another state, as CNHT has exposed with one outfit that does this.
He is only supposed to be concerned with sq footage, number of rooms, fireplaces, kitchens, bathrooms, landscaping, driveways, outbuildings, general condition, cellar, etc. as to their existence...
These are things even the most casual observer can see...and are used to determine the value of your property.
I was here both times alone when the assessor came. I said, all you need to do is come to the bottom of the stairs to see that my cellar is 'unimproved' (they had us down for finished basement) and that was all I allowed him to do, is look. He came, he looked and wrote down that it was unimproved on his clipboard. PERIOD! I don't know what else you think they will do? They sometimes measure the outside of the house to see if it's the same...generally if the room count jives they don't.
Upstairs he kept staring at my fireplace, which I thought was weird, but as it turned out, he was admiring the mantle and wanted to know who designed it..
Jane some people don't like the fact that government officials can demand to gain entry to your home. And if you refuse they can jack your property tax to any amount they want.
Many of us come from places where we have never experienced this kind of intrusion.
The cops show up at my house and I can tell them to pound sand, but for "administrative" reasons government officials can come in.
Same feelings about the Census.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on September 30, 2007, 07:51 PM NHFT
Jane some people don't like the fact that government officials can demand to gain entry to your home. And if you refuse they can jack your property tax to any amount they want.
Many of us come from places where we have never experienced this kind of intrusion.
The cops show up at my house and I can tell them to pound sand, but for "administrative" reasons government officials can come in.
Same feelings about the Census.
Oh I agree and I have refused entry at times as well. (It was the cops who supposedly came because a neighbor was 'concerned' that I hadn't had my lights on for 3 days...)
Usually though these are just workers for the assessing company that is hired and they really could care less about anything else but the dry statistics. They are not police or anything.
I don't know who does it in your town but here it's Vision Appraisal. They don't ask you to leave them alone in there or anything.
My guns aren't hanging on the walls. :-) But if they were, so what? If you're worried about that, then we have trouble to begin with.
Perhaps the big deal is a matter of principle. The town/state government is forcing my wife and I to waive either our Fourth or Fifth Amendment rights. They give us a choice: we can waive our right to refuse entry without a warrant, administrative or otherwise, or we can choose to waive our right to due process in the form of being able to appeal a seizure of our property via unjust taxation by arbitrary inflation of our assessment. Forcing us to chose between one of two rights that are both guaranteed is reprehensible.
Furthermore, hypothetically, what if I do have something in my house that is illegal that I don't know about or even something I do know about? Some may argue that I should know the law and follow it, but that would be missing the point. I have a right, Constitutional and human, to be secure from unreasonable searches or seizures in my home that are conducted without a warrant and probable cause. I don't have anything to hide, to quote the often used rationalization, but I also don't have anything inside my house I want the government to see without probable cause and warrant in hand. I just bought new leather furniture and painted my walls. Am I to think that the assessor may increase my taxes thinking I can afford to pay more because I keep up my house? What is to prevent abuses with this?
Yes, the assessor wants to know how many bedrooms and bathrooms I have, but I can simply tell him when he asks. He doesn't need to see my house to confirm. If he has some reason to believe I'm lying, he can get a warrant. Otherwise, I am innocent until proved guilty.
In addition, permitting processes are in place that account for any changes or new construction. That process should inform the assessor just fine. If the concern is that people circumvent the permitting process, then it is the onus of the government to find probable cause to obtain a warrant. The point is that there are paper records indicating everything the government wants to know about my house. It does not need to see the inside of my house to to check these records. If it feels it needs to, then it needs a warrant.
What gets me most about this unconstitutional New Hampshire law, however, is that if I refuse to allow an unwarranted search of my home, I am stripped of my due process rights to appeal the unjust and arbitrary assessment they invent. This law is unconstitutional on two fronts, and that doesn't even address the relevant sections of the New Hampshire constitution.
It matters not that the assessor is not a cop, it matters not whether he is employed by the town or a contractor hired by the town, he is acting as an agent of the government, and is thus bound to the U.S. Constitution and all other guaranteed obligations of a government official that keeps us the people free. You may also want to review your history. The New Hampshire law in question seems eerily similar to the "writs of assistance," <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writ_of_Assistance (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Writ_of_Assistance)>, which the colonists used as one of the primary reasons to revolt against the British Empire. If we forget our history, we may be doomed to repeat it.
I have attached both the Fourth and Fifth Amendments for your review, as well as the unjust, unconstitutional law I want destroyed.
Fourth Amendment
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
Fifth Amendment
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.
Unjust, unconstitutional New Hampshire Law
TITLE V (TAXATION), CHAPTER 74, Section 74:17
I. If the selectmen or assessing officials are unable to obtain consent to enter property for the purpose of obtaining information necessary to complete any inventory under this chapter or appraisal under RSA 75, they may obtain an administrative inspection warrant under RSA 595-B.
II. Any person who refuses to grant consent to the selectmen or assessing officials to enter property for the purposes in paragraph I shall lose the right to appeal any matter pertaining to the property tax for which such person is liable and the right to appeal any exemptions for which such person may be entitled but has not yet received.
Source. 1991, 231:3. 1993, 128:1, eff. Jan. 1, 1994.
Yes I understand.
I even had one tell me "I'm not lookin' at yer guns or anything."
So they are well aware we hate this procedure....
AM:
also head to CNHT.org and contact ed naile. he's an expert on these things and if you could arrange for him to be there that might be helpful...
I dont' like the dunce cap idea if the assessor in fact is scrupulously staying outside people's homes. i'm not even sure such a person should be protested. if he's planning on coming in however....i would love to be part of making a scene.
Yep that's what we do, town stuff...
However, I think Ed will just advise you to watch the guy when he's in the house just as you would any other workman, otherwise, you are chancing them wayyyy overcharging you with an unfair assessment like the one I had and then telling you there's nothing you can do about it because you did not let them see that you only had 7 rooms and not 9 for example.
I never let the inspectors in. I also realize that if I want to challenge my assessment, I would have to let them in.
Letting them in vs. not letting them in can go either way. For instance, say you don't let them in.....and you have mini blinds on your basement windows - but your basement is unfinished. They might presume that because there are blinds, the basement is finished and you'll be paying higher taxes on that space. On the flip side, if you have recently installed granite counters and hardwood floors, you could get put in an above-average column and get assessed higher on that.
Quote from: ny2nh on October 01, 2007, 11:37 AM NHFT
I never let the inspectors in. I also realize that if I want to challenge my assessment, I would have to let them in.
Letting them in vs. not letting them in can go either way. For instance, say you don't let them in.....and you have mini blinds on your basement windows - but your basement is unfinished. They might presume that because there are blinds, the basement is finished and you'll be paying higher taxes on that space. On the flip side, if you have recently installed granite counters and hardwood floors, you could get put in an above-average column and get assessed higher on that.
So in New Hampshire tax assessors come around to look in people's homes? It hasn't happened to me yet.
You know what really bites too? When you refinance they don't include your basement even if it's finished as living space so their comparable properties are of lower value and it affects the value of your property. At least that's what I was told when we refinanced. :-\
Rainey, you assessment was likely based on the permit since it is new.
Go down and pull your assessment 'card' and review all the details to make sure they are correct and that they don't have you down for anything you don't have...
Otherwise you can file for an abatement. Does Rick tend to check these details out?
I received a similar letter in Merrimack. When my wife called about it she was told legally we did not have to let them in.
It was also suggested to us that we don't because we do have nice antique furniture and were told by more then one person that often times the assessors will raise the value of your home based on how nice you keep it and on what kinds of things you own inside the house.
Quote from: CNHT on October 01, 2007, 01:15 PM NHFT
Rainey, you assessment was likely based on the permit since it is new.
Go down and pull your assessment 'card' and review all the details to make sure they are correct and that they don't have you down for anything you don't have...
Otherwise you can file for an abatement. Does Rick tend to check these details out?
Thanks! :) So I should go to the town hall and ask them to pull my assessment card, right? Rick doesn't ever check this stuff out I handle these kind of things. I just didn't know there was anything like this until now.
In Maryland I know we had a lady that would come out every spring and just look at the outside of the house and leave. So you mean make sure they don't have things down like we have a pool when we don't and stuff like that, right?
Quote from: napolo on September 29, 2007, 10:15 PM NHFT
Amanuse: Unless they have a warrant to enter your home, they cannot. That doesn't mean that they won't try. I had a different experience with Child Protective services. They wanted to enter my home because someone did not like the fact that we home schooled our children. Fortunately, we belong to a legal defense organization for homeschoolers. Long and short of it, we were told by our attorney that under no circumstances were we to let them into our home. We invoked our 4th amendment rights. Of course they tried to intimidate us into letting us in by threats and accusations. They said that we must have something to hide by not letting them in. They totally ignored the fact that our Constitution guarantees that they have no right to enter our home. To deny them did not mean automatic guilt. I think you have to stand on principal in this matter. Once you let them in for one thing they can begin to create whatever circumstance they wish. As to having a protest, I think your waisting your time. Our forefathers already protested for us by fighting and dying to secure our rights. Don't let the beaureaucrats win this one.
And, remember to be
consistent about denying the government entry to your home. If you let one government official in, now, and then decide to invoke your fourth-amendment rights next time he comes back, or the next time another one shows up, you're only giving them more justification to wonder what you're hiding. "Why'd you let us in
last time? What are you hiding
now?"
Quote from: raineyrocks on October 01, 2007, 03:03 PM NHFT
Quote from: CNHT on October 01, 2007, 01:15 PM NHFT
Rainey, you assessment was likely based on the permit since it is new.
Go down and pull your assessment 'card' and review all the details to make sure they are correct and that they don't have you down for anything you don't have...
Otherwise you can file for an abatement. Does Rick tend to check these details out?
Thanks! :) So I should go to the town hall and ask them to pull my assessment card, right? Rick doesn't ever check this stuff out I handle these kind of things. I just didn't know there was anything like this until now.
In Maryland I know we had a lady that would come out every spring and just look at the outside of the house and leave. So you mean make sure they don't have things down like we have a pool when we don't and stuff like that, right?
Yes exactly. The builder sometimes includes a lot of things in his permit, just so he won't have to go back again, but that doesn't mean the house had those things added to it.
i should be available to play youtube videographer but you never can be 100% sure of availability.
we have lots of video people in the keene area but not as many out here.
Hmmmm. An October inspection. You might want to crank the lawn sprinklers in the front yard WAY up and claim that the faucet is stuck.
You probably are a big slob and have lots of things to trip over, and you may have spilled some highly lachrymatory substance that you just can't get out of the carpet. :'(
Don't forget about those 1/2-million candlepower strobes you like to have in every room.
Sure, c'mon in, stay as long as you like. Would you like a hot cup of ExLax cocoa? :P
Quote from: lildog on October 01, 2007, 02:39 PM NHFT
It was also suggested to us that we don't because we do have nice antique furniture and were told by more then one person that often times the assessors will raise the value of your home based on how nice you keep it and on what kinds of things you own inside the house.
The assessment on the inside isn't based on antique furniture or antique rugs, art work, etc. that are removable in a sale as personal property but rather on things that are permanent like hardwood floors, kitchen cabinets, granite counters, fancy bathroom fixtures, etc. besides number of rooms, sq. ft., etc.
I am confused by the comments of EthanAllen, in particular. I understand they are factual, to some degree, but it seems like the concepts of liberty and the Constitution are completely lost on him or her. Honestly, they are a little frustrating, as is this entire matter. I feel like I'm drowning somewhat in a sea of insanity that has been promulgated by the state and town government here.
Is it not clear to everyone here that the government should not be taxing us on any of the interior contents of our home, whether or not they are permanent fixtures? Is it not clear that the government should not be entering our homes without a warrant and probable cause?
Are there people involved in this forum that are not aligned with the ideals of the Free State Project? As a newcomer, I honestly don't know how this works. It just seems like some of the comments are coming from left field, or in other words, the mind of a statist.
The grand majority of the comments here have been helpful and I appreciate all efforts to further the cause of liberty in our lifetimes. My plan is to let the forum know the date and time of the unconstitutional inspection so everyone who can come and wants to come will come. I am now somewhat concerned at this point that some enemies of this strategy may also interfere. Do the friends of liberty have suggestions on how to avoid such secondary intrusion?
And for the record: I agree that the dunce cap may be going overboard. It was mostly meant as a light-hearted suggestion of how to really bring home the concept that this whole interior assessment is absurd. And if the assessor is scrupulous and chooses not to enter my home, then the members of the Fourth Amendment party can simply support his choice and praise him for his scruples. I certainly plan to present my letter of duress if he does enter, and I am sending letters to my state lawmakers either way. I hope all of you New Hampshire residents will do the same.
Here's to life, liberty, property and the pursuit of happiness...
Quote from: amanuse on October 01, 2007, 11:42 PM NHFT
I am confused by the comments of EthanAllen, in particular. I understand they are factual, to some degree, but it seems like the concepts of liberty and the Constitution are completely lost on him or her. Honestly, they are a little frustrating, as is this entire matter. I feel like I'm drowning somewhat in a sea of insanity that has been promulgated by the state and town government here.
EthanAllen is a troll.
QuoteI am confused by the comments of EthanAllen, in particular. I understand they are factual, to some degree, but it seems like the concepts of liberty and the Constitution are completely lost on him or her. Honestly, they are a little frustrating, as is this entire matter. I feel like I'm drowning somewhat in a sea of insanity that has been promulgated by the state and town government here.
Is it not clear to everyone here that the government should not be taxing us on any of the interior contents of our home, whether or not they are permanent fixtures? Is it not clear that the government should not be entering our homes without a warrant and probable cause?
I believe the taxing of capital is immoral because it violates the absolute right of self-ownership of the owner of the capital who had to labor themselves or pay someone to produce the capital.
I believe the requiring of sharing the economic rent that attaches to all locations as the result of it's proximity to the labor and services of those who you exclude (backed by force) is just because it upholds the absolute right to self-ownership of the excluded. It does not violate the absolute right to self-ownership of the landowner because they by definition do not provide any labor towards the unimproved land value.
QuoteAre there people involved in this forum that are not aligned with the ideals of the Free State Project? As a newcomer, I honestly don't know how this works. It just seems like some of the comments are coming from left field, or in other words, the mind of a statist.
I am a left-libertarian.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Left-libertarianism)
My definition of a statist comes from the grate libertarians Franz Oppenheimer, Albert J. Nock, and Frank Chodorov. A state hands out privileges to a certain class of people (a subset of the whole) without requiring any obligation to those the privilege excludes from the natural and social commons, backed by force. Local governances as legitimate agency requires an obligation in exchange for the privilege of exclusive use backed by force. This legitimate authority is a monopoly on force over a territory because the negative externalities that violate the absolute right of self-ownership of those being excluded who are in proximity, happens over a specific territory.
QuoteI am now somewhat concerned at this point that some enemies of this strategy may also interfere. Do the friends of liberty have suggestions on how to avoid such secondary intrusion?
What exactly are you referring to?
QuoteIt was mostly meant as a light-hearted suggestion of how to really bring home the concept that this whole interior assessment is absurd.
Today our property tax is based on the market value of the buildings (capital) and the land value (economic rent). My proposal is to shift taxes off of buildings, so their would be no need to visually inspect the inside of the buildings, and onto the socially created land values - which the landowner contributes no labor towards it's creation but is provided by your neighbors labors as a positive externality.
Is this not working towards greater liberty based on the fundamental tenet of libertarianism, the absolute right of self-ownership?
We are a diverse bunch. And principle purity will be debated forever. I wouldn't worry about a fellow porc interfering.
We have had many discussions about property tax and market value relevance, especially when it came to the "view tax". A search should bring up the threads.
Mostly we come to the conclusion that you must make your own call as to what is going too far and which battles you choose to fight. Let us know what assistance we can give you.
As I said before, I will show up if at all possible if you want to remind the assessor that it is an unwelcome intrusion.
Cathleen
Quote from: EthanAllen on October 01, 2007, 07:46 PM NHFT
Quote from: lildog on October 01, 2007, 02:39 PM NHFT
It was also suggested to us that we don't because we do have nice antique furniture and were told by more then one person that often times the assessors will raise the value of your home based on how nice you keep it and on what kinds of things you own inside the house.
The assessment on the inside isn't based on antique furniture or antique rugs, art work, etc. that are removable in a sale as personal property but rather on things that are permanent like hardwood floors, kitchen cabinets, granite counters, fancy bathroom fixtures, etc. besides number of rooms, sq. ft., etc.
That may be right in theory but as was pointed out to me, some assessors do take things like furniture into account. A bit of socialistic thinking... these folks are well off so they can afford a little higher taxes then someone else.
I guess this comes into play even more so when you talk about older homes who's values are very subjective.
do what my parents do, push all the furniture in front of the windows, and say you just put down poly on the freshly sanded hardwood floors, and it cant be walked on. then they cant really look in, and always have supplies outside to make it look like you were hard at work, takes 24 hours to dry and they dont usually come back.
Quote from: amanuse on October 01, 2007, 11:42 PM NHFT
Are there people involved in this forum that are not aligned with the ideals of the Free State Project? As a newcomer, I honestly don't know how this works. It just seems like some of the comments are coming from left field, or in other words, the mind of a statist.
Yes.
I will state very clearly that I find the definition of "left-libertarian" a socialist's attempt to soften what he really is. You can't be both left and libertarian in my view. It's counterintuitive. The left-libertarian movement appears to be nothing short of socialism. Thanks for clearing this up for me.
So again, I'm not really here to debate whether my opinion on this matter is right, because I think it is and that's not going to change. I feel very strongly about my Constitutional rights and am very frustrated that more Americans don't feel the same way. The strict constructionist view of the Constitution is what drives my libertarianism.
Again, I'll let you know the next step in this debacle when I get to it. For the time being, I'm going to lay low until closer to my Oct. 15 deadline for responding to the town.
You could always have a big party the day the assessor's planning on coming in. Gee, if he can't get to the other rooms because there's just so many people in the way...oops! And gee, when you open that door and find a couple in an embrace, he might quick close that door. And hey, what's the sticky stuff spilled over there? Be careful, watch your step. Excuse me, there's another drunk stumbling around that doorway there (oh, is that him that smells so bad)?
Quote from: amanuse on October 02, 2007, 11:52 AM NHFT
I will state very clearly that I find the definition of "left-libertarian" a socialist's attempt to soften what he really is. You can't be both left and libertarian in my view. It's counterintuitive. The left-libertarian movement appears to be nothing short of socialism. Thanks for clearing this up for me.
:clap:
Quote from: amanuse on October 02, 2007, 11:52 AM NHFT
I will state very clearly that I find the definition of "left-libertarian" a socialist's attempt to soften what he really is. You can't be both left and libertarian in my view. It's counterintuitive.
Any more or less in how you can be both "right" and libertarian?
You're attempting to define language, it doesn't work that way. People use whatever terms they need or can latch on to in order to resolve their cognitive dissonance in loyalty to one party or ideal with libertarianism. If declaring oneself a "christian anarchist" or "left libertarian" or "green for freedom", makes it easier to fit these concepts of freedom, privacy, and non-interference into their view of who they are or want to portray themselves as - let them be. Ok?
There are many anarchists who define themselves as "social libertarians" as an alternative to using the term "anarchist"; they often mean by this that some form of commune or collective to achieve a non-heirarchy microsociety as their goal, to be achieved through voluntary participation by members and through the collective resources and energy of those people, not through involuntary taxation and creation by the state.
Such people may want to define themselves differently from, say, a libertarian that's very much into a heirarchy based on capitalism. Both can agree that taxation is theft, that the state has too much power, etc. They are both libertarians.
Quote from: ArcRiley Today at 03:31 PM
QuoteYou're attempting to define language, it doesn't work that way. People use whatever terms they need or can latch on to in order to resolve their cognitive dissonance in loyalty to one party or ideal with libertarianism.
Language is important and it has meaning. And as a matter of fact, it must be defined. How can any group of people unite behind a concept if that concept is not clearly articulated.
Everyone is not a Libertarian, unfortunately, and the ideas expressed by some of the posters here are diametrically opposed to the type of mainstream libertarianism I adhere to and the very mission - defending the Constitution's limits on government and protection of the people's rights - which I moved to New Hampshire to help execute.
Taxation is necessity, but how that taxation is imposed is debatable. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with a property tax, as one form of taxation, the idea that an assessor can come into someone's home without probable cause and a warrant that specifies what he is looking for is unconstitutional. I believe this is a black and white issue with no gray area.
Your post can be interpreted as another attempt to bring this thread away from its original purpose.
So you are aware: I requested ideas on how to prevent this intrusion of my Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights. When I discovered that such intrusion cannot be avoided without severe penalty, I requested help and ideas to organize a protest and fight a law I feel is unjust. I also requested that folks start another thread to discuss the politics of whether an interior assessment is right or wrong.
As someone who supports the Constitution, I especially support the First Amendment and the people's right to speak freely and express themselves. But part of being a responsible speaker is to follow some decorum and adhere to the rules set up in a particular forum so long as the rules themselves are lawful. This is a libertarian principle. You can't go into a theater and shout fire if there is no fire, because you would cause panic and infringe on the rights of the paying moviegoers from enjoying the property that they purchased (the right to view the movie). Likewise, when someone asks for advice on how to improve a situation he believes is a problem, and suggests another forum for debate on whether that situation is a problem, it is against decorum and common decency to do otherwise.
In this thread, it seems like EthanAllen has consistently debated my principle that the interior assessment is a problem. He seems to be trying to prove that my vision of libertarianism is wrong. If my perception is correct, you are out of line by asking me to let him be. You should be directing your criticism elsewhere.
Quote from: amanuse on October 02, 2007, 05:03 PM NHFT
Quote from: ArcRiley Today at 03:31 PM
QuoteYou're attempting to define language, it doesn't work that way. People use whatever terms they need or can latch on to in order to resolve their cognitive dissonance in loyalty to one party or ideal with libertarianism.
Language is important and it has meaning. And as a matter of fact, it must be defined. How can any group of people unite behind a concept if that concept is not clearly articulated.
Everyone is not a Libertarian, unfortunately, and the ideas expressed by some of the posters here are diametrically opposed to the type of mainstream libertarianism I adhere to and the very mission - defending the Constitution's limits on government and protection of the people's rights - which I moved to New Hampshire to help execute.
Taxation is necessity, but how that taxation is imposed is debatable. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with a property tax, as one form of taxation, the idea that an assessor can come into someone's home without probable cause and a warrant that specifies what he is looking for is unconstitutional. I believe this is a black and white issue with no gray area.
Your post can be interpreted as another attempt to bring this thread away from its original purpose.
So you are aware: I requested ideas on how to prevent this intrusion of my Fourth and Fifth Amendment rights. When I discovered that such intrusion cannot be avoided without severe penalty, I requested help and ideas to organize a protest and fight a law I feel is unjust. I also requested that folks start another thread to discuss the politics of whether an interior assessment is right or wrong.
As someone who supports the Constitution, I especially support the First Amendment and the people's right to speak freely and express themselves. But part of being a responsible speaker is to follow some decorum and adhere to the rules set up in a particular forum so long as the rules themselves are lawful. This is a libertarian principle. You can't go into a theater and shout fire if there is no fire, because you would cause panic and infringe on the rights of the paying moviegoers from enjoying the property that they purchased (the right to view the movie). Likewise, when someone asks for advice on how to improve a situation he believes is a problem, and suggests another forum for debate on whether that situation is a problem, it is against decorum and common decency to do otherwise.
In this thread, it seems like EthanAllen has consistently debated my principle that the interior assessment is a problem. He seems to be trying to prove that my vision of libertarianism is wrong. If my perception is correct, you are out of line by asking me to let him be. You should be directing your criticism elsewhere.
This is what EthanAllen does in
any thread he participates in. There are basically three options;
1: Debate him. Buy three spare keyboards because some are due to be broken, consider them anger management collateral damage. Perhaps you could get EA to write a check for those seeing as he's really hung up on that whole third-party initiation of force which seems to branch all the way to Bangladesh.
2: Don't let him take over your thread, simply continue discussing NH property taxes.
3: Push the ignore button for EA, then execute #2.
QuoteHow can any group of people unite behind a concept if that concept is not clearly articulated.
What is the concept you clearly want to articulate?
That the fundamental tenet of libertarianism is the absolute right of self-ownership and the non-aggressive principle is derived from it?
Quotethe ideas expressed by some of the posters here are diametrically opposed to the type of mainstream libertarianism I adhere to and the very mission - defending the Constitution's limits on government and protection of the people's rights - which I moved to New Hampshire to help execute.
Yes, many folks here are anarchists and don't believe there is any implicit consent to living under our constitution and the form of governance we have. Some people even believe that the only rights that we have are those that we can each defend individually with a weapon.
Not me though.
QuoteTaxation is necessity, but how that taxation is imposed is debatable. Whether or not I or anyone else agrees with a property tax, as one form of taxation, the idea that an assessor can come into someone's home without probable cause and a warrant that specifies what he is looking for is unconstitutional. I believe this is a black and white issue with no gray area.
I don't believe taxation is necessary because it violates the absolute right of self-ownership of the those paying. But I believe sharing the economic rent with those you exclude is necessary to uphold their absolute right of self-ownership. Making thus a requirement of exclusive use backed by force does not violate the rights of the exclusive user because they, by definition, do not labor to create unimproved land values.
I have already stated that taxation of capital (requiring a visual inspection of the inside of your and my house) is immoral and theft. So you've got no argument with me!
QuoteAs someone who supports the Constitution, I especially support the First Amendment and the people's right to speak freely and express themselves.
Freedom of speech, assembly, petitioning, travel - all occur on common right of ways. These common rights are individual equal rights. You are free to engage in your common rights so long as while taking action you are not infringing on the equal right to the same as any other individual. Governments act rightfully when they prevent one individual from infringing on the equal rights of another individual. Governments act wrongfully when they conflate common rights for collective rights (joint rights) by requiring permission prior to acting. Libertarians act illogically when they suggest that all lands should be privately owned and therefore destroy the basis of our common rights exercised upon common right of ways - these are natural rights that pre-exist governments and are the reason we narrowly constitute a government in the first place.
QuoteIn this thread, it seems like EthanAllen has consistently debated my principle that the interior assessment is a problem.
Not true
at all. I agree the property tax on buildings and the collection of the data for an assessment on the inside of buildings is immoral and wrong. Taxation on labor and capital is theft.
EthanAllen:
Please let that be the last of your unwanted debate.
Takes two (or more) to debate
as always...the thread is turning into 95% talk and 5% action.
all i care about is having a time and place to show up or a list of things we can do to help. Once you've got a date and time Amaneuse plz put it on the calendar, and I'll be there if i can.
I don't think it makes any sense to call the government and then tell them when they can come and then when they came prevent them from seeing what they came to see. If you don't want them to see the inside of your house then don't call them. Because if you call them and they come and you have a party and aren't able to do their asessment then they'll just leave and make up their own assessment anyways.
I will admit that I am torn about how to handle this issue in the same way that this thread suggests a rift.
The way it stands now, I can either allow the assessor into my house under duress, giving up my Fourth Amendment rights, but protest the abuse, or I can give up my due process rights and accept an unjust assessment.
I must make clear that I don't have a problem paying fair taxes. This issue has been from the very beginning solely about how to protect my and by extension everyone's Constitutional rights. I am still grappling with how best to stand up for them. I need to speak with a lawyer, who I am now playing phone tag with.
I have not taken any action as of this point, other than to post to this thread and reach out to some professionals. I will post any action requests on the calendar.
The third option is to have the party... we'll shoot video and have a good time with it.
The worst of these things is feeling powerless, people laughing and have a good time returns your feeling of empowerment. Plus we get to meet you and let folks know that they don't stand alone in these matters. :)
Quote from: amanuse on October 02, 2007, 05:03 PM NHFT
Taxation is necessity, but how that taxation is imposed is debatable.
That taxation is necessity is also highly debatable. I for one believe it is not. I wish you luck with this nonsense of having to deal with government.
Quote from: Porcupine_in_MA on October 29, 2007, 11:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: amanuse on October 02, 2007, 05:03 PM NHFT
Taxation is necessity, but how that taxation is imposed is debatable.
That taxation is necessity is also highly debatable. I for one believe it is not. I wish you luck with this nonsense of having to deal with government.
Porcupine_in_MA, I think what is debatable is the form that taxation takes.
For instance, we all agree we need roads in one form or another. We can also agree it takes money to upkeep and maintain those roads. Regardless of whether the roads are private, public or whatever the money collected to upkeep those roads is a form of taxation.
Here is the definition of tax:
1 a: a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes b: a sum levied on members of an organization to defray expenses2: a heavy demand
Based on that nearly any form of payment for the roads regardless of who "owns" them could be correctly defined as tax. So using that definition, tax would therefor be necessary since the roads would need to be paid for in SOME method.
The question then becomes who pays for what and how do they go about paying.
Quote from: lildog on October 30, 2007, 03:08 PM NHFT
Porcupine_in_MA, I think what is debatable is the form that taxation takes.
For instance, we all agree we need roads in one form or another. We can also agree it takes money to upkeep and maintain those roads. Regardless of whether the roads are private, public or whatever the money collected to upkeep those roads is a form of taxation.
Here is the definition of tax:
1 a: a charge usually of money imposed by authority on persons or property for public purposes b: a sum levied on members of an organization to defray expenses2: a heavy demand
Based on that nearly any form of payment for the roads regardless of who "owns" them could be correctly defined as tax. So using that definition, tax would therefor be necessary since the roads would need to be paid for in SOME method.
The question then becomes who pays for what and how do they go about paying.
Lildog, the taxes in discussion now and in almost any discussion is defined in 1a of your posted definition. No one debates that roads somehow need to be paid for in some way. But the validity and morality of taxation itself is debatable.
If roads were private there are a variety of ways to pay for them not through taxes.
what's the latest on this....
I apologize for being incognito, my friends. Life does get in the way of political action at times - in particular, when your child is nine months old and needs your time and support while your wife is taking her general exam for a Ph.D. program.
What follows is my response to your request for an update:
First, I am extremely appreciative of your support and willingness to appear at a protest at my house.
Second, I have decided that the idea of allowing the town to violate my Fourth Amendment rights, even under duress with a video taped protest, is wrong. I just cannot allow my Fourth Amendment rights to be violated - period. I feel it sets a precedent that I do not want to set. I believe in the sanctity of my home and I do not want that sanctity violated by government intrusion.
As of today, I have had a conversation with an attorney at the Institute for Justice who presented me with two options: 1) To stage the protested appraisal, post a video of the event, and then take action to change the law. 2) To resist the interior appraisal, but proactively send documentation to Town Hall that provides the same information they would be looking for on the inside, and then take action to change the law.
I have chosen to execute the second option and am in the process of putting the information together. Subsequently, I plan on working with my state representatives to change the law that offends me. The Institute for Justice Attorney said he would work with me to craft the proper edit, which essentially would make what I plan to do proactively the legal alternative to an interior inspection.
At this juncture, I have not sent the letter to Town Hall or reached out to my state rep. When I do, I will update this thread accordingly.
I still need your help, however. Once I send the information to my Town Hall in Derry, I will need you to help support my efforts with the state legislature, especially if you live in my district, but also if you live outside of it. I will likely host a gathering at my home when it comes time to bring these requests to our state legislators.
Again, I am very appreciative of your support and will keep you updated as this progresses.
Quote from: amanuse on November 01, 2007, 03:58 PM NHFT
I apologize for being incognito, my friends. Life does get in the way of political action at times - in particular, when your child is nine months old and needs your time and support while your wife is taking her general exam for a Ph.D. program.
What follows is my response to your request for an update:
First, I am extremely appreciative of your support and willingness to appear at a protest at my house.
Second, I have decided that the idea of allowing the town to violate my Fourth Amendment rights, even under duress with a video taped protest, is wrong. I just cannot allow my Fourth Amendment rights to be violated - period. I feel it sets a precedent that I do not want to set. I believe in the sanctity of my home and I do not want that sanctity violated by government intrusion.
As of today, I have had a conversation with an attorney at the Institute for Justice who presented me with two options: 1) To stage the protested appraisal, post a video of the event, and then take action to change the law. 2) To resist the interior appraisal, but proactively send documentation to Town Hall that provides the same information they would be looking for on the inside, and then take action to change the law.
I have chosen to execute the second option and am in the process of putting the information together. Subsequently, I plan on working with my state representatives to change the law that offends me. The Institute for Justice Attorney said he would work with me to craft the proper edit, which essentially would make what I plan to do proactively the legal alternative to an interior inspection.
At this juncture, I have not sent the letter to Town Hall or reached out to my state rep. When I do, I will update this thread accordingly.
I still need your help, however. Once I send the information to my Town Hall in Derry, I will need you to help support my efforts with the state legislature, especially if you live in my district, but also if you live outside of it. I will likely host a gathering at my home when it comes time to bring these requests to our state legislators.
Again, I am very appreciative of your support and will keep you updated as this progresses.
I never knew there was an Institute for Justice. Good luck with everything! :)
http://www.ij.org/
They do a lot of eminent domain work, and they were involved in the Kelo v. New London case.
Please list the other organizations you refer to. It is always good to have every resource at hand.
+1 for Andrew!
Quote from: error on November 01, 2007, 05:14 PM NHFT
http://www.ij.org/
They do a lot of eminent domain work, and they were involved in the Kelo v. New London case.
Quote from: freedominnh on November 01, 2007, 05:35 PM NHFT
They are fairly non-responsive unless a taking is "eminent". They must have time on their hands---the NH takings issues they were sent briefs on were basically ignored. There are other organization if their follow through wanes.
Oh, thank you ! :)
Quote from: raineyrocks on November 02, 2007, 09:21 AM NHFT
Quote from: error on November 01, 2007, 05:14 PM NHFT
http://www.ij.org/
They do a lot of eminent domain work, and they were involved in the Kelo v. New London case.
Quote from: freedominnh on November 01, 2007, 05:35 PM NHFT
They are fairly non-responsive unless a taking is "eminent". They must have time on their hands---the NH takings issues they were sent briefs on were basically ignored. There are other organization if their follow through wanes.
Rainey maybe you were thinking of the Hall of Justice.. :)
Oh, thank you ! :)
Quote from: Dreepa on November 02, 2007, 05:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: raineyrocks on November 02, 2007, 09:21 AM NHFT
Quote from: error on November 01, 2007, 05:14 PM NHFT
http://www.ij.org/
They do a lot of eminent domain work, and they were involved in the Kelo v. New London case.
Quote from: freedominnh on November 01, 2007, 05:35 PM NHFT
They are fairly non-responsive unless a taking is "eminent". They must have time on their hands---the NH takings issues they were sent briefs on were basically ignored. There are other organization if their follow through wanes.
Rainey maybe you were thinking of the Hall of Justice.. :)
Oh, thank you ! :)
No, I really wasn't thinking at all! ;D Just kidding! I really never did hear of an Institute for Justice.
Quote from: amanuse on November 01, 2007, 03:58 PM NHFT
I apologize for being incognito, my friends. Life does get in the way of political action at times - in particular, when your child is nine months old and needs your time and support while your wife is taking her general exam for a Ph.D. program.
....
At this juncture, I have not sent the letter to Town Hall or reached out to my state rep. When I do, I will update this thread accordingly.
I still need your help, however. Once I send the information to my Town Hall in Derry, I will need you to help support my efforts with the state legislature, especially if you live in my district, but also if you live outside of it. I will likely host a gathering at my home when it comes time to bring these requests to our state legislators.
Again, I am very appreciative of your support and will keep you updated as this progresses.
While it's too late for something to be submitted this year (ie 2008 session), this is a great issue to raise for the 2009 session, and get lots of Reps lined up for now. Some might not be back, but the more Reps lined up the better. (And State Senators would be useful as well, of course)
I think you can count on a lot of support, if it's an issue you want to take on...
If I recall, the initiation of the property assessment was court ordered due to a challenge of the state wide property tax being unfair. A court ruling does not a law make. Article 19 of the NH constitution last 3 words...unless prescribed by law.
I picked through the Derry code and found none regarding property assessment.
Have you called Gomez to ask under what authority these inspections are being made?
Rodinia,
Thank you for your assistance, but it is my understanding that this is a state law, not part of Derry code. Please review the laws cited in this post <http://newhampshireunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=11044.msg189146#msg189146>. Let me know what you think.
A
To add to the discussion, it appears Section 1 of Amendment 14 also protects due process rights (the right to appeal the assessment even if I don't allow assessor in my house in violation to Fourth Amendment).
Amendment XIV
Section 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
Hi Amanuse,
I would agree with your view on amendment 14.
Have you called your rep and talked through the situation? If your rep(s) isn't a good one, you may want to call a liberty oriented rep and ask about the situation too. Also, it doesn't hurt to call and talk to the prime sponsor of the bill. That way, you can find out what the original intention was for the legislation.
Have you considered denying the town access to your home but hiring a private real estate assessor to come in? Far be if for me to assume a town employee assessing real estate is a conflict of interest >:D I can't imagine the town would have a problem accepting a private assessment...
Please keep this situation updated. Sorry for your troubles.
Rodinia,
It would be a great idea to discuss the original intent of the bill with its sponsor. Thanks for that suggestion.
Hiring a private assessor would defeat the purpose of my protest, however. I don't think the government at any level has the right to information about the inside of my home, other than stuff that is clearly available from other means/documents, such as how many bedrooms and bathrooms I have. It's the violation of the sanctity of my home that I am opposed to. It is only recently that town assessors have begun inspecting the inside of people's home, violating their Fourth Amendment rights.
Thanks for the support.
keep us up to date how we can help. would you like me to do a ridley report about your situation at some point?
http://RidleyReport.com