Alright, after doing some more independant research, my feeling about the Berlin area (especially the east side) is that its a rough town...
Now look, I grew up in poor towns, but if its as bad as some say, hell, I'll move to Elizabeth, NJ then...
I don't want to have to bloody my knuckles just to go to work in the morning...
Berlin is deffinately on the "to see" list, but I was thinking, Lancaster? What are some of the other larger towns in the North Country?
I definitely want to stay in Coos County because I like the cooler climates (winter time in NJ, I run around in a sweatshirt most days, summertime I just die from the heat...) Its the Kuban Cossack bloodline that allows me to do very well in cold climates, unfortunately, anything over 60 degrees, and I start overheating..
I was looking at Google Maps of both Berlin and Lancaster. Berlin seems more "citylike" (and I am accustomed to towing in that environment very well) but at the same time, I am looking for a place where I can leave my doors unlocked at night (like NW PA was..)
Just some suggestions...
Joe.
Crime in Berlin is well below average. It is also very inexpensive to live in Berlin and I found the people nice. I am not suggesting anyone move there, though. The town right below it is nice and has a Wal-Mart that appears to be in Berlin.
http://www.city-data.com/city/Berlin-New-Hampshire.html
Crime in Berlin by Year
1999 2000 2001 2002 2003 2004 2005
117.0 146.1 133.2 185.8 209.0 142.0 106.6
City-data.com crime index (higher means more crime, U.S. average = 325.2)
Berlin and Gorham are practically one city, even though they're different municipalities. Milan doesn't have much of a village area; it's mostly rural, but it's a nice area and pretty cheap. Lancaster is a beautiful town, with a nice compact village (but not too tight, like Berlin is).
The village of Groveton (town of Northumberland) has cheap housing, and good access to Lancaster, Stratford and Stark.
Hey KB I like this house in Milan
http://www.farmsandbarns.com/MilanP.html (http://www.farmsandbarns.com/MilanP.html)
Though I don't think I have quite enough change,
in the jug for it yet. ;D
Quote from: Pat K on October 16, 2007, 12:15 AM NHFT
Hey KB I like this house in Milan
http://www.farmsandbarns.com/MilanP.html (http://www.farmsandbarns.com/MilanP.html)
Though I don't think I have quite enough change,
in the jug for it yet. ;D
You just need to look under the sofa cushions.
Yeah, and the woodburner power plant PSNH wants to build up there would be great for you too, Pat. Of course you'll need to clear the snow off the car and driveway before you can get to work. :o
Quote from: Pat McCotter on October 18, 2007, 04:21 PM NHFT
Yeah, and the woodburner power plant PSNH wants to build up there would be great for you too, Pat. Of course you'll need to clear the snow off the car and driveway before you can get to work. :o
If I could afford the house, you know the next thing going in would be
a huge snow melt driveway system.
If those damn lotto people would just coperate.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on October 18, 2007, 04:21 PM NHFT
Yeah, and the woodburner power plant PSNH wants to build up there would be great for you too, Pat. Of course you'll need to clear the snow off the car and driveway before you can get to work. :o
From September until May
Joe, On your way to Lancaster, check out Grafton. The area is beautiful, Town Government Light, and G. has some great people. Let us know when you're coming.
Lloyd
Both Grafton and Lancaster are very nice. I'm looking into Grafton myself, something close to the Lebanon area.
Berlin has high crime in some areas- high drug and alcohol abuse, high domestic abuse, and a large amount of other crimes. Cost of living is quite high (not low) because there is no business competition. Get used to shopping at the very small local WalMart, which is nothing like most Wal Marts. The cost of most items is very high- used cars are extremely high because they don't last long (At 10 years old, many are in the junk yard from rust), auto repairs are frequent and expensive (rusted lines, rusted fuel tanks, rusted brake components, rusted floors...you get the idea), and general household supplies are high. We don't have any chain stores like Circuit City, or discount places like Sam's Club. We usually try to make a trip to Concord every few weeks to stock up on supplies at Sam's Club. Even with the high gas prices, we save a ton of money over the local stores.
If you want northern N.H., stick a little further south, like the Plymouth area. Its still rural, yet close enough to Tilton and Concord to stock up on supplies without spending a whole day out of town. There are also rural towns not too far from Concord that give the country life without being in a wasteland like Berlin.
The problem with most of the towns mentioned in other posts is that they all rely on Berlin for shopping or employment. Littleton is getting better, and is far enough from Berlin that its not affected by the Berlin problems very much. Employment is getting better, with more businesses opening up. Berlin, on the other hand, is a dieing city. If I hadn't gotten married while here, and now have my wife's family up here, I'd be gone in a heartbeat.
Jim
Quote from: nhdiesel on May 08, 2008, 05:57 PM NHFT
Get used to shopping at the very small local WalMart, which is nothing like most Wal Marts.
Just had to correct you on this one. Gorham has built a new Wal-Mart close to the old location, it is huge! One of the biggest ones I've ever seen.
I grew up on the Gorham/Berlin border and have to say, I'd never move to Berlin. The economy is terrible, the biggest employer (pulp mill) has shut down and they are considering building yet another prison (this would be the second). Gorham is doing a bit better, but still hurting due to the fact that Gorham's pop is ~3,500 and alot of buisnesses depended on berlin's "wealth" to operate.
I'm currently living in the Conway area playing in two bands. Conway and N. Conway is a tourism hot-spot and can become very congested in the summer but has more of a nightlife than the sourrounding towns.
As another poster said, plymouth/holderness area is nice. And with Plymouth University there should be a good number of Liberty minded individuals on hand.
I was really thinking about Berlin, the housing up there are actual HOMES and they go for under $100k.
But then I looked at their website, and saw a FYI about abandoned/burned down buildings and how many residents want to just "eminent domain" them
what was worse was that the town answered questions like "we know we know they look horrible, but those stupid laws stop us from taking them by force!"
I don't like that one bit. Isn't there just a place where I can live and not be harassed? Where I can pray that I not have my house taken away because someone else finds it "visually unappealing"
sad I would love to move up north and start over, shedding my masshole robes, but everywhere I look seems to be yet another small town authoritarian regime. Berlin seems to have an identity crisis, land is cheap because no one wants to live in a city where there is no work. . .but town rules stop people from moving in to create business. I had found a home with an attached Hair Salon, but with all the bureaucracy with trying to get a salon license my girlfriend doesn't even want to go about all that.
I suggest going without a salon license, and she doesn't want to risk it yet.
Wasn't Berlin where they had (have?) a federal experiment where they posted big brother style monitoring cameras all over public places? Supperman was planning a dramatic protest of those at one point that seems to have fallen through.
I'm from northern nh...I think Berlin stinks - literally - even with the paper mills gonzo. There's a reason housing is so cheap in Berlin.
this is the kind of information I need. I can put up with certain smells for a chance to have my own land.
It will really stink when the Federal Prison is built!
why do they need a federal prison up there???
went up there twice. I didn't think it was that bad of a city. The smell was only really bad down in the Cascade area. I smelled nothing up the hill near the mountain. Looks like a lot of businesses have moved out. . but was surprised to still see rite aid, jcpenny, and family dollar.
I thought the river was gorgeous. Housing was cheap. It might provide some people a chance to own their land and perhaps start a business. Now only if you could get the government to allow business to flourish.
A lot of the "worst" places in NH are equal to the "good" places where some of us come from. :( As sad as that is to fathom, it's the truth.
I don't think there's a place in NH that makes Baltimore look bad, for instance.
Quote from: Kevin Dean on September 20, 2009, 09:33 PM NHFT
A lot of the "worst" places in NH are equal to the "good" places where some of us come from. :( As sad as that is to fathom, it's the truth.
I don't think there's a place in NH that makes Baltimore look bad, for instance.
Very true, for instance in Manchester I have seen 5 maybe 10 abandon / boarded up houses in the whole city. Where I moved from you could go a couple of blocks and count that many.
someone should list reasons why I shouldn't move to Berlin.
Berlin's gotta be better than MA :)
Its been a while since I've posted, but to answer some of the past replies and post an update: Walmart- True, our store is large in comparison to what we had, but compare it to other WalMarts, and its small and is understocked. Its also overpriced- I've compared prices, even taking time to write down stock numbers and compare at other WalMart locations, and many of the products up here are priced higher than other locations. My guess is the lack of competition. They only have to compete with Mom & Pop stores. Another store that does the same thing is the new Tractor Supply store. The Berlin/Gorham store has higher prices than both their catalog, and other stores. A farm jack I bought in Virginia for well under $60 costs aprox. $76 here.
Berlin: Crime is still high, and getting worse. The police do nothing about real crime, and only harass those who won't put up a fuss. They spend more time stopping cars with license plates out than dealing with the major drug problem or other major issues. Unemployment is high, and all Berlin wants to do about it is get another mill in town. They do their best to fight other businesses from moving into town, because they might take the workforce away from a mill, even when we have no mill to compete with.
Burnt houses: As much as I believe in the freedoms of property owners, we aren't talking about a couple minor fires that only affect the landowner. These are burnt shells that are a major safety hazard. Some of the have debris on the sidewalks and in the streets, such as the one in the middle of Main Street. Its at the point that its affecting other people. For example, many insurance companies won't insure you if you live beside or near a vacant building in Berlin. My stepson and his girlfriend rented an apartment next to one of the run-down empty buildings, and they couldn't even get renter's insurance. Other home owners have had their insurance dropped because of the fire danger.
Oh yea, and one more thing- TAXES. Berlin has one of the highest tax rates in the state. But compare the public services Berlin has to other towns. You will pay and pay, and get nothing in return. Someone has to supply the money all those abandoned buildings and empty lots aren't paying for.
I, for one, will be happy when I'm able to move out of here. I moved up from the Keene area. Now Keene isn't looking so bad. There are many other parts of New Hampshire that are also great places to live. Look around, there are places out there much better than up here.
Good luck and thanks for the update.
I grew up in Gorham, native of Dummer.
Berlin lost the paper mills which directly put out of work a couple thousand employees from its peak, who where making excellent union wages. This also put out of work a myriad of supporting industries such as loggers, truck drivers, restaurants, local shops and stores etc. A big hit on what was once a population of about 18,000 people.
When thousands of people left Berlin for jobs elsewhere, rents and housing became relatively inexpensive as compared to south of the notches where the NH economy was booming. This caused many hundreds, probably thousands, of low income people dependent on public funds for survival to move from southern NH to the Berlin area because their limited incomes (welfare, social security, and whatnot) could be stretched further due to the lower cost of housing.
Next came the prisons, because few other towns wanted prisons in their backyard but Berlin being in dire need of jobs believed making the area a prison complex would solve their employment problems. Say what you will, I know of several families who moved to Berlin because a family member had been incarcerated in town and the found the area to be to their liking. Now they are living near to additional family members who currently reside in said prison, which is of course of great advantage to all - prison complex and family alike.
Crime and drug use increased, the amount of money the town takes in taxes has drastically decreased. Many shops and houses are abandoned or in serious disrepair, and that etc and etc and etc. Many of those who can afford to have moved to surrounding towns such as Gorham, Shelburne, Jefferson to get out of what has become quite the hole.
Gorham is a fine little town, but Littleton, where I currently live, is the hub of the North Country. Although the big box stores have moved in, they are located on the edge of town and away from the smaller shops situated along the main drag. In Littleton there is at least some remaining industry and the mood is generally upbeat, crime is much lower than in the Berlin area.
A related article:
http://www.wmur.com/money/26162800/detail.html (http://www.wmur.com/money/26162800/detail.html)
I just bought a house here in Berlin. Great place to live! Tax rate is high, but assessed values are low/realistic (no "street value" BS like other towns), making it somewhat normal for tax $/house.
Crime? Sure, it's everywhere. I have not anything of note and I do notice these things.....
Walmart rocks for local supplies. Pricing is no worse than any other spot. Local lumber yards are cheaper than Home Depot/Lowes (in Conway).
I like the town and the area, A LOT!
Andy
Quote from: langloisandy on December 26, 2010, 04:00 PM NHFT
I just bought a house here in Berlin. Great place to live! Tax rate is high, but assessed values are low/realistic (no "street value" BS like other towns), making it somewhat normal for tax $/house.
Crime? Sure, it's everywhere. I have not anything of note and I do notice these things.....
Walmart rocks for local supplies. Pricing is no worse than any other spot. Local lumber yards are cheaper than Home Depot/Lowes (in Conway).
I like the town and the area, A LOT!
Andy
Ok, it's been over a year since I last posted. I love Berlin and the surrounding area. Very nice place to be. A tad chilly at the moment, but expected.
Regards,
Andy
Quote from: langloisandy on January 18, 2012, 09:38 AM NHFT
Quote from: langloisandy on December 26, 2010, 04:00 PM NHFT
I just bought a house here in Berlin. Great place to live! Tax rate is high, but assessed values are low/realistic (no "street value" BS like other towns), making it somewhat normal for tax $/house.
Crime? Sure, it's everywhere. I have not anything of note and I do notice these things.....
Walmart rocks for local supplies. Pricing is no worse than any other spot. Local lumber yards are cheaper than Home Depot/Lowes (in Conway).
I like the town and the area, A LOT!
Andy
Ok, it's been over a year since I last posted. I love Berlin and the surrounding area. Very nice place to be. A tad chilly at the moment, but expected.
Regards,
Andy
8) or cold actually lol
We checked out that area last summer during PorcFest.