Featuring Revolutionary Artillery & Guns, Battle ReEnactments, Speakers, Bands, Vendors, Jaffrey Downtown Common Main Event, Secluded "After Hours" Barbecue, with Live Music, Food, ReEnactments, After dark Cannons Grand Finale, Free Camping & More!
Where: downtown Commons, Jaffrey NH
When: August 23, 2008 (time not specified)
Reservations for free organization booths and vending spaces still available.
Free camping & facilities reservations for August 22 and 23 available through July.
Events LineUp to Date:
TOPICS:
NH Constitution Preservation
Second Amendment and Gun Rights
NH Motto & History Preservation
RFID/Spychips and National ID
Mt. Monadnock Zone Preservation
Marijuana Medicinal and Decriminalization
SPEAKERS:
Evan Nappen, Second Amendment Attorney
John B. Hunt, NH House of Reps
Katherine Albrecht, Spychips author and radio host
David Welch, NH House of Reps
Matt Simon, NH Common Sense Executive Director
Joel Winters, NH House of Reps
Jonathon Perri, NH Students for Sensible Drug Policy
Daniel Itse, NH House of Reps
Jennifer Coffee, State Coordinator Second Amendment Sisters
ORGANIZATIONS & VENDORS:
NH Liberty Alliance
NH Libertarian Party
National Heritage Center for Constitutional Studies
NH Common Sense
CASPIAN
Second Amendment Sisters
Friends of Immigration Law Enforcement
ARTILLERY REENACTMENT:
Captain Morrills Artillery Company, Franklin, NH
BAND:
Poker Face, Allentown PA
GUNPOWDER:
Donated by Atlas Fireworks, Jaffrey NH
AFTER HOURS:
Historic Dillion Lodge, Jaffrey NH
Volunteers, Promoters and Fundraisers still needed! Please contact Jean Coutu at (603) 532-6711 for more information.
Cool :)
Anarchy In Your Head will have a table there. I'm on the phone with Jean right now. I've got a lot of left-over silk screened boogeyman t-shirts from Porcfest that I'll have marked down from $15 to $10 as well as some anarchy bumper stickers.
Good luck getting off the phone! ;D
Quote from: Kat Kanning on June 23, 2008, 09:31 AM NHFT
Good luck getting off the phone! ;D
I almost said something, but yeah... OMG. Nice guy... very talkey. ;D
QuoteTO ALL GUN OWNERS/GROUPS ATTENDING LIVE FREE OR DIE RALLY: We encourage & endorse open carry at the event. We request that you pass this along to your members,BUT ALSO, that if possible, for people open carrying, they wear something identifying them selves as other than a Fed or Police Officer. Many participants of last years event have questioned "if the feds are going to be there again this year?",(there were NO police). People "not in the know" thought participants open carrying were feds or plain clothed police. As you know,the idea of open carrying at event is to bring others into the know.
Thank You, Jean"Mike"Coutu
I bet open carry with a slogan tshirt would do the trick
Around this crowd, if you wear a shirt that says, in huge letters "I'M NOT A FED" and they'll instantly assume you ARE a fed. :D
I'm thinking of getting a t-shirt that just says "who is Carl Drega?" :P
We have been mailing & e-mailing out hundreds of notices,running ads in local papers,etc., since January, for ANYONE to show up for volunteers meeting on Friday, August 22, 7 PM at Dillon Lodge. We have had 6 (maybe's) commitments since January! I AM NOW ON MY HANDS & KNEES BEGGING! PLEASE !!!! Thousands of dollars, hundreds of hours all year,many contributions, have gone into this event. It appears hundreds of people are coming, & event is in deep crap if no one shows up for meeting. Tasks easy & short,wear nice STAFF t-shirts (being donated by Loud Pipes Saloon 2), & mostly just knowing what's going on & where things are to answer people arriving Saturday morning & Saturday evening. I cannot do this part alone & have tapped out every source I can think of to ask! PLEASE does anyone out there know ANYONE who can PLEASE HELP or solicit for volunteers to come to meeting?
Desperate, Jean Coutu, Live Free Or Die Rally'08
email him at Caacp01 at aol dot com
This is definitely an over-reaction. It's just too early for people to commit to a meeting on Aug 22. That's over a month away. I think he's going to get a lot more responses as the meeting approaches.
He's a little high strung :)
Quote from: Kat Kanning on July 13, 2008, 09:11 AM NHFT
...if no one shows up for meeting.
...solicit for volunteers to come to meeting?
Is this vague to anyone else? They need volunteers to "come to meeting." Isn't that what they called church back in the olden days: "Don't forget to go to meeting on Sunday"
I guess it makes sense. Just weird he doesn't write "come to
the meeting" I don't know where Dillon Lodge is either.
QuoteKat, Thank you! Dillon Lodge is across from Sawyers Field , where encampment 8/22 & evening & after hours events(8/23) are taking place after main event downtown (8/23). 202 No. out of Jaffrey towards Peterborough approx. 3 miles. Turn east (right) on Old Sharon Road ( & Coll's Farm Stand) Road turns to dirt,go to end,(little red house) turn left, go approx. 200', Lodge on left,Field on Right. Will be signs,well marked 8/22. Map on back of invites mailed out, or go to pictures on Homepage myspace.com/caacp for photo of map or I have maps I can snail mail. Gratefully, Mike C.
such a NH description
From Coutu:
QuoteI'm renting a pig roaster on tow trailer to put in Sawyer's Field for Saturday,Aug.23, 7PM thru Sunday L.F.O.D. Rally evening events. Anyone interested in buying & roasting the pig to sell for $5.00 a plate, please contact me. Thank You, Jean Coutu, caacp01 at aol dot com
I have just sent this message to Mr. Coteau:
QuoteJean,
I have enjoyed your event in the past but I will not attend this year and encourage others to also not attend if the band Pokerface is allowed to play/attend. They are clearly racists, and I don't want to be associated with them. I look forward to hearing from you that they have been booted. (Please see the attached file for evidence of my claim - it's an email from their lead singer to the Free State Project.)
Best,
Ian Bernard
Host, "Free Talk Live"
The lead singer in the band Pokerface has been outed as a racist (also anti-immigrant), and boy is he despicable. See the attached email from him for proof.
Good news: Pokerface has been canceled! 8)
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 31, 2008, 10:07 AM NHFT
Good news: Pokerface has been canceled! 8)
And only 18 minutes after your first post! :)
Holy !@#$ :o
karma to Rich G.
edit after reading the whole email: :o :o :o
I feel dirty for ever having listened to that band. Good riddance. >:(
Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in. People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. ::)
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 01, 2008, 08:39 PM NHFT
Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in. People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. ::)
This wasn't about PC, it was about ostracizing a band of men (Pokerface) who hate others based on the "group" they perceive them to be a part of. Don't you think the right thing was done here?
I can think of worse people that have been invited to parties that I have also been invited to.
Pokerface has never voted to spend billions of $s to bomb brown people.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 01, 2008, 09:01 PM NHFT
I can think of worse people that have been invited to parties that I have also been invited to.
Pokerface has never voted to spend billions of $s to bomb brown people.
How do you know? The lead singer's writing clearly supports state crackdowns on brown people crossing the "border". Close enough.
So does Ron Paul. ::)
True, but Ron Paul is just a pandering politician. Based on his 1988 campaign statements, he probably really doesn't feel that way.
The Pokerface guy is a White nationalist/separatist, from what I gather. Here's what dalebert found him saying on their forum (http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5492):
QuoteWe will largely eliminate both crime and racial conflict by making America a largely white country again. In particular, we propose to offer blacks a substantial payment -- say, $100,000 -- to renounce their citizenship and go elsewhere, and to require sterilization in exchange for welfare if they remain. (Note: Blacks are only 13 percent of the population, but commit 50 percent of the crime.) As for illegal immigrants -- particularly Hispanics -- we propose to round them up like Ike did in the 50's when he got rid of thousands, or else to pressure employers not to hire them by making it risky and costly to do so.
This Pokerface guy is sick. Good for Coteau for kicking their sociopathic asses out of his event.
I have heard their music ... I didn't mind it. But then politicians, also can sound fine, until you watch their actions.
that post is really nasty ... I guess I will be avoiding scheduling them for future events .... oh yeah ... I never considered it in the first place.
If anyone goes to the event. Try to catch Josh Noone and his partners (The Federal Crime) playing music. They are really good and have a decent message and are really nice guys in person.
Josh is cool, for sure. 8)
Quote from: HR Keith and Stuff on August 01, 2008, 11:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 01, 2008, 08:39 PM NHFT
Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in. People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. ::)
Ian, that letter was so funny. Thanks for posting it. However, since most of the people I know in TN are racist and or statist, I cannot really hate Pokerface. There music is ok. I enjoy some racist music, like tons of the Public Enemy songs. So what if some of the songs are anti-white. It's just music, let's not take things too serious.
I love Kat's take on the subject.
because of your name change ... I had to stop ignoring you HR Keith and Stuff ... funny post :)
maybe after you live in NH you can have Dale give you the "stuph" title
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 01, 2008, 08:39 PM NHFT
Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in. People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. ::)
Good grief, Kat. No one is going to stop them from attending, though I don't think they will. There's a big difference between screening every attendee for their views and INVITING hateful racists to perform on the stage! By inviting them, you are implying support when we should be distancing ourselves from these incredibly hateful people. We should be exercising our freedom of association and not associating with them. They're statists as well, Russell. They want to start a racist party to impose their hateful views on others. We shouldn't suppress speech, but we aren't obliged to provide platforms for speech either. I sometimes like to provide a platform for people I disagree with simply because I think it helps my cause, particularly if I think they will just bury themselves with idiotic statements or if more intelligent debate follows that shows the flaws in their beliefs. However, if I do that I make it VERY CLEAR that they don't speak for me and I'm not endorsing what they say.
Quote from: HR Keith and Stuff on August 01, 2008, 11:39 PM NHFT
Ian, that letter was so funny. Thanks for posting it. However, since most of the people I know in TN are racist and or statist, I cannot really hate Pokerface. There music is ok. I enjoy some racist music, like tons of the Public Enemy songs. So what if some of the songs are anti-white. It's just music, let's not take things too serious.
There's a difference between hating and ostracizing.
I ostracize in the hope that the person will change and stop THEIR hate.
I believe you Dale ... I just wasn't really worked up about this stuff. When these other guys plan events, I bet there will be many people who slip into the agenda. I just don't plan on attending.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on August 01, 2008, 09:27 PM NHFT
True, but Ron Paul is just a pandering politician. Based on his 1988 campaign statements, he probably really doesn't feel that way.
The Pokerface guy is a White nationalist/separatist, from what I gather. Here's what dalebert found him saying on their forum (http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5492):
QuoteWe will largely eliminate both crime and racial conflict by making America a largely white country again. In particular, we propose to offer blacks a substantial payment -- say, $100,000 -- to renounce their citizenship and go elsewhere, and to require sterilization in exchange for welfare if they remain. (Note: Blacks are only 13 percent of the population, but commit 50 percent of the crime.) As for illegal immigrants -- particularly Hispanics -- we propose to round them up like Ike did in the 50's when he got rid of thousands, or else to pressure employers not to hire them by making it risky and costly to do so.
This Pokerface guy is sick. Good for Coteau for kicking their sociopathic asses out of his event.
How come only blacks get a substancial payment for renouncing their citizenship?
What about the rest of us?
Makes you wonder if the racists down the hill at PF'05 (where Pokerface played) were more than just a coincidence.
Quote from: dalebert on August 02, 2008, 09:28 AM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 01, 2008, 08:39 PM NHFT
Well, hopefully they screen the political views of everyone who attends the celebration, too, before they let them in. People could fill out a questionaire to determine their political correctness to see if they can go to the party. ::)
Good grief, Kat. No one is going to stop them from attending, though I don't think they will. There's a big difference between screening every attendee for their views and INVITING hateful racists to perform on the stage! By inviting them, you are implying support when we should be distancing ourselves from these incredibly hateful people. We should be exercising our freedom of association and not associating with them. They're statists as well, Russell. They want to start a racist party to impose their hateful views on others. We shouldn't suppress speech, but we aren't obliged to provide platforms for speech either. I sometimes like to provide a platform for people I disagree with simply because I think it helps my cause, particularly if I think they will just bury themselves with idiotic statements or if more intelligent debate follows that shows the flaws in their beliefs. However, if I do that I make it VERY CLEAR that they don't speak for me and I'm not endorsing what they say.
I completely agree with ostracizing PokerFace over the views that its lead singer advocates, but I found this to be a little disturbing:—
Quote from: Rich GoldmanHi Paul. I did an email search and found your email. Sorry for missing it / not replying.
I thought Varrin was going to email you about this after the rally but he has been tied up with other things and asked me to. PokerFace has been discussed by the FSP before and agreement reached, but no one (it seems) ended up writing you and I don't think that's right or fair. I'd have brought this up at the rally but it was a fun, positive day and I did not want to get into what would have likely been a negative,
confrontational conversation.
In short, aside from the fact that we were only featuring local bands, the FSP cannot turn a blind eye to what you write, forward, and tolerate/accept in your forum. For example:
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5492
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewforum.php?f=30
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewforum.php?f=8
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5486
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=4660
These put PokerFace in conflict with those who are welcomed by the FSP. If you disagree with this assessment, please let us know; otherwise, barring a significant change in the views you advocate, tolerate, and the individuals you accept around you, please do not request/expect to play at any of our future events or associate with the project.
Thanks and again, I apologize that no one wrote you about this sooner.
-Rich
Ostracizing people for exercising their rights in a manner you disagree with (
e.g., using one's freedom of expression to express racism) is fine, and in fact the only right way to deal with such behavior. However, ostracizing people for allowing or tolerating others to exercise their rights in such a manner goes far beyond that, and indeed does sound like "political correctness" to me.
Is this an official position of the FSP board? That not only do they not want members who advocate racism, violence, or hatred, but that they also expect their members to actively place such requirements on their own friends and associates, to police public forums that they may run in order to do the same, and so on?
boy Ian better watch out ... who knows what all happens on his forum. :)
There's a difference between things happening on a forum and *inviting* racists to be a part of an event you organize.
Keith and I are telling jokes.
I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation. :Bolt:
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 02, 2008, 08:07 PM NHFT
I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation. :Bolt:
Very nice guy... very talky. This can not be overstated. I have my cell phone set to self-destruct as a safety measure if his number comes up on the caller ID. As a backup measure, I have 8 lbs of C4 and an auto-destruct sequence for my home and car to ensure my death that triggers if the cell phone self destruct fails.
Quote from: dalebert on August 02, 2008, 10:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 02, 2008, 08:07 PM NHFT
I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation. :Bolt:
Very nice guy... very talky. This can not be overstated. I have my cell phone set to self-destruct as a safety measure if his number comes up on the caller ID. As a backup measure, I have 8 lbs of C4 and an auto-destruct sequence for my home and car to ensure my death that triggers if the cell phone self destruct fails.
;D
I had a good time at LFOD last year, particularly the after party. Like most rock bands I can't understand the lyrics, so, they could have been dissing my mom, and I wouldn't know.
Quote from: dalebert on August 02, 2008, 10:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 02, 2008, 08:07 PM NHFT
I think if anyone has a problem with the festival .... they call up Coutu and have a nice conversation. :Bolt:
Very nice guy... very talky. This can not be overstated. I have my cell phone set to self-destruct as a safety measure if his number comes up on the caller ID. As a backup measure, I have 8 lbs of C4 and an auto-destruct sequence for my home and car to ensure my death that triggers if the cell phone self destruct fails.
Now that is funny. ;D
I've volunteered to help Jean with the event and I hope everyone else does, too. It looks like a lot of fun will be had and it'll be a tremendous outreach opportunity. We ought to all be flyering for the Live Free or Die event to make sure it's HUGE. I may start camping there on Wednesday or Thursday to help with last minute prep.
On a side note, the last time I saw "Mike" was in probably 1978, when he was a snotty 17-year old high-schooler. I worked with his Mom, Aline and hung out with his brother Marc, who did a lot of the construction at their riding arena and horsemanship training center, Honey Lane Farm on Goldmine Road in Dublin. I basically ignored him and he ignored me back then, so we have a lot of catching up to do. I'm glad he's turned out so well and I wrote his mom telling her so!
Greetings all,
Dennis here from the band Poker Face. Let me state that I am not here to stir up a hornet's nest, but, rather to clear up some misconceptions. I might recommend that we start a new thread if anyone's interested in having a civil discussion. However, I felt that this needed to be addressed here first.
Ian and others have claimed that we have been "outed as racists." The readers have even been given an example from our forum to substantiate this. Unfortunately, the claim is flat out false.
I will agree that we have been "accused" of being racists/supremacists/communists/fascists/manyotherthingists. However, it emphatically, absolutely, and positively must be stated for the record that we judge no man by anything but his own actions and support no "isms" in any totality.
In response to the snippet quoted from our forum, THOSE ARE NOT OUR WORDS!!! The author is stated at the beginning of the post. It is presented so that you can read and come to your own conclusions according to what THE AUTHOR writes. This guilt by association crap does not fly. If it did, Ian would be just as racist for posting that quote here.
With that said, I have two things to ask of my accusers:
One - an apology to the moderators/administrators. I don't care one bit if you apologize to me or the band. This is some lightweight mudslinging. But, those who have thrown that mud have violated the very first part of the very first sentence of this forum's terms of agreement which states: "You agree, through your use of this forum, that you will not post any material which is false, defamatory, inaccurate, abusive..."
Two - apologize to and assist Mike & Jean to make this event a success. Poker Face has already agreed to bow out (I hope you're happy with your baseless and unwarranted deeds). But, the actions of a few, here and elsewhere, have put an inordinate amount of stress and financial burden on a man who had nothing but good intentions. I recommend that the squawkers eat a big hacking piece of humble pie. When you get that down, realize that your efforts have caused this dillemma. Then put twice as much effort into helping instead of hurting the cause.
If there is any wish to elicit our opinions, please feel free to ask where we stand. We'll gladly tell you. That might be sage advice whenever you feel the need to gossip like a tabloid writer or deceive like a New York Times reporter.
Thank you for the opportunity to address the crowd,
Dennis
Poker Face
Thanks for coming to defend yourself. If I was wrong, I'll take back my determination and accusation. Let's start with a simple clarification. If you "aren't a racist", are you a white separatist? If not, why are you reposting stuff like this on your forum?
From http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5492
Quote* We will largely eliminate both crime and racial conflict by making America a largely white country again. In particular, we propose to offer blacks a substantial payment -- say, $100,000 -- to renounce their citizenship and go elsewhere, and to require sterilization in exchange for welfare if they remain. (Note: Blacks are only 13 percent of the population, but commit 50 percent of the crime.) As for illegal immigrants -- particularly Hispanics -- we propose to round them up like Ike did in the 50's when he got rid of thousands, or else to pressure employers not to hire them by making it risky and costly to do so.
This appears to be a forum post by: John Bryant (john@thebirdman.org).
You've got some offensive stuff posted by people on the FTL BBS. Are you responsible for every post? Do you want to spend your days censoring the posts? Should we stop listening to FTL because some numbnuk posts smack about someone/some race, etc.?
Just curious if you will be following up and cleaning up the FTL BBS of all the offensive BS?
[edit: love you, Ian, and get a grip]
No, it's a forum post by "pokerkid", the site admin. He is reposting Mr. Bryant's email.
I do not take responsibility for anyone else's posts except my own.
No one here ever complained about the rest of their forum. I couldn't even tell you what is there, nor do I care. This is solely about "pokerkid", the admin, and from what I understand, he is a member of Pokerface.
Now, I'm interested in Dennis's answer to my earlier question and now this one:
Who is "pokerkid"?
OK, you got me.
Do you ever post things forwarded to you without reading with a fine-toothed comb? Do you agree with some of Birdman's positions? I have seen something of his in the past, but, as with most people in this movement, I read for information content and move on to the next thing - most people say something I don't agree with. I don't think you have to worry about birdman coming to power and implementing any of those policies. ;)
Quote from: jaqeboy on August 04, 2008, 08:39 PM NHFT
OK, you got me.
Do you ever post things forwarded to you without reading with a fine-toothed comb? Do you agree with some of Birdman's positions? I have seen something of his in the past, but, as with most people in this movement, I read for information content and move on to the next thing - most people say something I don't agree with. I don't think you have to worry about birdman coming to power and implementing any of those policies. ;)
I don't care who birdman is. He's some racist asshole. I care that the person who posted it is the admin of the pokerface forum, and allegedly a member of the band. If the bandmember is a racist (or a "white nationalist" who claims to not be racist), I want to know so I can never buy their stuff or be confused as a supporter or fan of them.
Nope - not racist - not separatist - that is unless you qualify the longing for separating ourselves from a globalist ideology.
Now, on to the question of why we would repost this article. If you had the opportunity to peruse the post, you would notice that this was one person's idea for a new political party, albeit one yearning for a return to whitey in charge. The thing I find fascinating is that this individual is clamoring for much of what I see discussed here on nhunderground such as
- cutting taxes by at least 50 percent by scaling back the federal government.
- eliminate the income tax, in favor of either a land tax or a sales tax.
- opting out of the Social Security system
- reducing/increasing the circulation of currency whenever there is a rise/drop in the price of a market basket of commodities
- end the war in Iraq and bring the troops home
- close American foreign bases which are not relevant to our national defense.
- end foreign aid.
- oppose all 'hate crime' legislation
- legalize all drugs.
... and so on, and so on.
Basically, out of 23 planks he lists as being central to his concept of a new political party, the one you cite is the only one that I see as racially questionable. One or two others could have been phrased better, but, overall this is not far off from sounding like something FSP or Ron Paul would espouse.
So, this raises a couple of questions from me.
Should I refuse to read or share this article with people because 5% of it might offend someone?
Should I shun this person or reach out to him and try to change his mind of that 5% I differ on?
Should I continue posting his articles and fear the notion that he will be considered a 5th member of the band?
Dennis
Poker Face
www.pokerface.com
So what's up with all this stuff in that email that was posted earlier?
Quote1st - What is the representation of jews on the FSP board?
Is there an over representation of dual loyalist jews, as it is in many other organizations that love freedom. Where said organization starts to do good, then later dual loyalists are elected, then all of a sudden said effort starts to fizzle, because of these judas goats working against it inside. FSP is currently NOT meeting their goals of people moving to NH, Et Tu Brute Rich? I can tell you of dozens of movements and organizations where this has happened time and time again. Ron Pauls 2008 Revolution is just the latest to get derailed. The revolutionary sayanim is right smack in the middle of it all.
Rich, are you only sensitive to jewish issues, because everything you listed in the email below as offensive to FSP has to do solely with posts/categories exposing the crimes of the criminal jew. (I said CRIMINAL JEW not all jews) One of the writers you happen to chose is a Canadien jew by the name of Henry Makow, who has no problem exposing jewish crimes and criminals. But henry must be a self hater. Obviously you didn?t read the piece he wrote, only the sensationalism of the title? http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5486
...
If I had taken your attitude of protecting criminal illegal-Mexicans in writing this email to Poker Face, I would be telling them that all of their anti-illegal immigration posts
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewforum.php?f=28
are RACIST and SUPREMACIST, & that Poker Face are a bunch of Minute-Klanners etc..? oh yeah that?s right, I have gotten called those names too, because of my AMERICAN FIRST actions. But instead I get a shitty little email like the one you wrote to me, whining about how we?re haters and anti-semites for what we allow to be posted on our forum. Grow the fuck up.
Now I find out that you are going out of your way to fuck up other events and relationship.
Quick question? Are you American First or are you JEW first. If you want me to see you color blind, then act like an American Firster, and stop covering for jews who are criminals, for that?s all we do. By you being offended by the articles posted, tells me what side of freedom YOU choose to be on ? the half truthers side. We don?t care what the truth is, no matter how ugly it may be against our own favorite groups, or against the grain of our programmed ? education. Truth is always paramount., and as well should be for EVERYONE else.
...
Anyone obsessing so much over Jews is going to have a damned hard time convincing me he's not an anti-semite. And anyone going on about "criminal illegal-Mexicans" and calling themselves an American Firster is ripe for ostracism in my opinion.
Quote from: Pokerbass on August 04, 2008, 09:19 PM NHFT
Should I refuse to read or share this article with people because 5% of it might offend someone?
Yes, unless you want people to confuse you for a racist (white separatist).
QuoteShould I shun this person or reach out to him and try to change his mind of that 5% I differ on?
For me, shun. Ignorance can usually be remedied, and I'm a pretty tolerant guy. My exception is that I don't tolerate those who do not allow others to be free based on the groups they them to be a part of. Hating people for their skin pigment or the plot of land they were born on is despicable to me.
QuoteShould I continue posting his articles and fear the notion that he will be considered a 5th member of the band?
I don't read articles from racists on the air. If I did inadvertently and my attention was brought to it, I'd apologize and never do it again. You have yet to apologize and instead obfuscate by trying to paint him as "one of us".
How about this sub forum of yours which appears to be all about what you call the "holohoax". What is that all about? Looks like you're a moderator there, Dennis. http://pokerface.org/fx/viewforum.php?f=30
Sure sounds like you're obsessed with people who consider themselves Jews. Sure sounds like pretty typical white nationalist paranoid garbage to me. Looking forward to your explanation...
It sure doesn't take much effort to find all kinds of hate actually posted by your bandmates on your forum, Dennis. Here's another example:
From: http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5384
This time it's actually "pokerkid" (the admin) who posted his own thoughts. This time about homosexuality:
QuoteWe could eliminate homosexuality, by making sure, the next generation doenst get violated by gay paedophiles.
pk
So... posting about eliminating brown people from your society, jewish-obsessed paranoid ramblings, AND homophobia. Please note, my mind is made up. I'm posting this for the benefit of those reading. You should probably just back away and go back to your world of hate. You're just making yourself look worse.
Perhaps you should go start the "White State Project".
Wow!!! Ian, I'm surprised by your answers. Is it worse to hate a man for his words or for his skin color? I rather it be neither.
The holohoax section is not my forte, so, I can only debate so far. I'm listed as moderator for several sections, but, rarely get any time on the board at all. In fact, I've spent more time here tonight than I do on my own board in a week. If you want to debate the finer points, you'll have to get together with pokerkid. Suffice to say, the section exists because thousands of real people around the world are rotting in real prisons because they challenged the "official" story. Additionally, a relatively small number of people have profited from the billions of dollars of reparations that should have gone to the multitude of survivors. Are there injustices there? Don't even tell me you can say otherwise.
White State Project - BWAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's a good one. Is that all you have - just one liners and the knack to take things out of context. My apologies to your 2 listeners.
I said I would gladly engage in a civil discussion. You obviously can't fathom what that means.
I'm the one posting context. Actual quotes from your forum admin and presumed bandmate, "pokerkid". (You still haven't identified him.)
Since you can only speak for yourself, and your posts on the forum are mostly about conspiracies and Ron Paul, how about you enlighten us to how you feel about immigration and homosexuality?
OK, here's pokerkid (aka Paul Topete) speaking about the issue of ILLEGAL immigration. I have no problem with an immigration policy. But, do it the right way. We can't afford millions more on an overtaxed welfare system.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fs2cUE5yUPQ
Homosexuality is your business. I don't care if your getting a goat up the wrong end. Just don't force it on my kids. Do you think pedophelia is equal to homosexuality? Are you ok with men having sex with 11 year old boys? Are you having sex with 11 year old boys?
If we can't afford welfare for illegal immigrants, why is the government ignoring them and kicking out the productive immigrants?
Quote from: Pokerbass on August 04, 2008, 10:33 PM NHFT
OK, here's pokerkid (aka Paul Topete) speaking about the issue of ILLEGAL immigration. I have no problem with an immigration policy. But, do it the right way. We can't afford millions more on an overtaxed welfare system.
So Mr. Topete has Mexican heritage. He's still intolerant to those breaking laws he thinks are important. What is "right" about obeying bad laws?
Are pot smokers "illegal drug users"?
Why don't "illegal" drug users "do it the right way" and lobby for changes to the law before they get high?
Since you understand the war on drugs is bad, do you now see the hypocrisy in your position against "illegal" immigration?
Not a fair comparison. Toking up a joint at the end of the day has no repercussions on anyone else. Millions of people straining the resources of hospitals, schools, employment and more are affecting us all.
Quote from: Pokerbass on August 04, 2008, 11:16 PM NHFT
Not a fair comparison. Toking up a joint at the end of the day has no repercussions on anyone else. Millions of people straining the resources of hospitals, schools, employment and more are affecting us all.
Nope, the government is hurting you by forcing you to pay for it all. If your issue is the welfare state, you should focus there instead of on the distraction of immigration. Stopping "illegal" immigration will require a police state. Do you endorse that? Also, you didn't answer the questions.
Enforcing immigration does not require a police state. But, it does seem to be counterproductive when Border agents are being jailed for providing the enforcement for which they've been hired.
Not sure which question I didn't answer, but, I'm assuming you're referring to the drug laws comparison. In response, we do lobby for change and the band plays in support of that change. We performed for Libertarian Party conventions in several states including the National Convention in Atlanta in 2004. We even played the Halloween Party for the Keene State College LP. The band also had involvement with NORML's convention when it was held in DC (2000, I think), and performed at Ed "The Weedman" Forchian's rally when he was running for NJ Senate on the US Marijuana Party.
The real question that should be asked though, is why do people like George W Bush and Ollie North get caught with their hands in the cookie jar and end up free men? Hell, Ollie got his own tv show.
This has been fun, but, I must go make love to my big breasted wife before sacking out for the night. This has been fun, but, that will be more fun. Will check back in tomorrow.
Peace,
Dennis
Hey, you never answered my question.
Quote from: error on August 04, 2008, 10:51 PM NHFT
If we can't afford welfare for illegal immigrants, why is the government ignoring them and kicking out the productive immigrants?
I'd like to apologize for calling you guys racists. I now have more information about your beliefs.
Quote from: Pokerbass on August 04, 2008, 11:43 PM NHFT
Not sure which question I didn't answer, but, I'm assuming you're referring to the drug laws comparison. In response, we do lobby for change and the band plays in support of that change. We performed for Libertarian Party conventions in several states including the National Convention in Atlanta in 2004. We even played the Halloween Party for the Keene State College LP. The band also had involvement with NORML's convention when it was held in DC (2000, I think), and performed at Ed "The Weedman" Forchian's rally when he was running for NJ Senate on the US Marijuana Party.
Nice flash of your activism cred, but you're still in a band and moderate a forum with a bigoted nationalist homophobe (not racist), and you're unapologetic about it. The jury is still out on your beliefs, but you appear to at least be a nationalist. I think you're obfuscating the rest of your beliefs and trying to distract by dropping names and unrelated queries like this:
Quote from: Pokerbass on August 04, 2008, 11:43 PM NHFT
The real question that should be asked though, is why do people like George W Bush and Ollie North get caught with their hands in the cookie jar and end up free men? Hell, Ollie got his own tv show.
Here's another question, what should happen to me if I get caught smuggling or harboring "illegal" immigrants?
I'll let someone else engage you at this point.
Keith has a point. I'm a pretty hardcore anarchist and don't even believe in illegal immigration. I have lots of friends who differ with me, but I don't ostracize them. It's part of the myth and mysticism of minarchy and if we treat minarchists too heavy-handedly, I just don't think that's the best way to help them come around to seeing what real freedom is about. I came to my conclusions based on equating those specific racist ideas to Pokerkid. If this was a case of misunderstanding from the context or whatever, and the evidence isn't there to show that he supports those then I need to apologize as well and I wouldn't think it appropriate to encourage banning them from the event. If Ian has already changed his tune on that then there must be something to it and I definitely need to give it a closer look. I'll do that and post again soon.
Hi. I think things need to be clarified. The issue was never about whether PokerFace/Paul should be free to write what is on their forum. The issue was never about illegal-immigration, the drug war, or their libertarian credentials. The issue was never about whether Paul and the members of PokerFace were generally decent, friendly people. All of these were taken for granted (though Paul's indecent and unfriendly email certainly challenges this last point).
The issue is whether pro-liberty individuals or organizations should host or associate with a band whose lead member promotes, and whose other members seem unconcerned by, amongst other things, a White Liberationist Libertarian Political Party, the Holocaust as a hoax, that Israel (or IsraHELL as it is often referred to) is behind 911, that there is a Satanic Jewish conspiracy, and that "no society can flourish in which the Jew feels at ease." As far as I can tell, no one from PokerFace has denied that pokerkid is Paul, despite repeated queries. Similarly, given opportunities to explain his posts, Paul has defended them as being the "truth" which others need to wake up to and accused me of "judas goat actions" and covering for "crimes of the tribe."
This is the first time I've had/decided to confront something like this and it was not an easy choice or something I did lightly. But as it seemed PokerFace was growing more involved in the pro-liberty scene, and the rhetoric on the forum was worsening, I thought it necessary that this issue be addressed. There is a wide variety of views in this movement and tolerance is critical. Many, including myself, are rightly concerned about this setting a precedent for those with unpopular/controversial views being excluded. To this concern, I simply point out that this was about standing up against anti-Semitism, racism, nationalism, group vilification, or whatever you'd like to label the views expressed, which (I'd hope) are rejected and go well beyond being held as simply unpopular or controversial by those in the pro-liberty movement.
Dennis, I thank you for posting to the forum and showing that not all the members of Poker Face are/think like Paul; but you are part of a band which is taken as a single package. Paul is the front man and the forum in question is one in which you are an admin. You do have some responsibilities. Similarly, as individuals, organization decision makers, and event hosts, we all have a level of responsibility for those we invite, promote, tolerate, and associate with. At this point, having read everything, re-evaluated my views, and gotten third-party reactions to the forum, I still believe being connected with PokerFace to be improper, irresponsible, and both immediately and eventually harmful.
Rich-
This may be a little off topic but I was curious if you have any thoughts on the national-anarchist movement as it relates to this issue?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_anarchism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_anarchism)
"National-Anarchists advocate a model of society in which communities that practise separatism along the lines of ethnicity, religion or sexual orientation are able to coexist alongside mixed or integrated communities without requiring force. They suggest that "autonomous zones" would exist with their own rules for permanent residence in a community without the strict ethnic divisions and violence advocated by racist nationalism. National-Anarchists consider genocide, murder, and social conformity to be unnecessary, tyrannical and an affront to "libertarian minded people".
Some proponents of National-Anarchism support voluntary racial separatism, but not racial hatred or racial supremacy (such as white supremacy and black supremacy). Some National-Anarchists, including Southgate, believe that miscegenation damages cultural diversity, on the grounds that the intermixing of cultures destroys one or all of the cultures involved. They further maintain that racial separatism stops racial hatred from developing by allowing indigenous cultures and biodiversity to continue. Southgate has stated that "Our concept of the word 'national' relates not to territory but to the racial identity which is a natural facet of all peoples", and that "we are seeking our own space in which to live according to our own principles". The United States National-Anarchist group Folk and Faith states: "Being firm believers in true bio-diversity, National-Anarchists are staunch racial separatists." Anarchist critics argue that National-Anarchism's concept of racial separation is intrinsically linked to racial hatred. For their part, National-Anarchists generally distance themselves from both mainstream anarchists and white supremacists."
Hi Bill. I'm not familiar with National Anarchism. But from what you describe, as it relates to this issue, I find the lack of vilification enough to separate it from the category of what is at issue with PokerFace. To the extent that birds of a feather like to flock together I kinda of see this as a natural phenomenon that currently occurs, but would be concerned in this -ism about inherent/inevitable xenophobia, isolation, and group think.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 05, 2008, 09:37 AM NHFT
Hi Bill. I'm not familiar with National Anarchism. But from what you describe, as it relates to this issue, I find the lack of vilification enough to separate it from the category of what is at issue with PokerFace. To the extent that birds of a feather like to flock together I kinda of see this as a natural phenomenon that currently occurs, but would be concerned in this -ism about inherent/inevitable xenophobia, isolation, and group think.
Well, just like you, maybe the folks in pokerface have never heard of national-anarchism either. What if there were a possibility if they were just educated on how the leadership within the NA movement have evolved - based on historical, biological, cultural, political, economic understanding - to a more enlightened position, so that they too could be more welcomed within the broader liberty-minded movement?
Quote from: Ron Helwig on July 12, 2008, 10:04 AM NHFT
I'm thinking of getting a t-shirt that just says "who is Carl Drega?" :P
I'd buy one with his face on it. http://zoneoftruth.com/drega1.html
Plus I'd also buy another one with the face and: "Who is Harold W. Perkins?"
Over at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Drega it's missing the details of WHY this event took place:
As I did testify in the L.O.B. a few years ago when one of the State Troopers had gone over his medical allocation for repairs to his body to heal from the wounds left by Drega, a bill was introduced to pay him $_______ from out of the General Fund.
I spoke AGAINST the bill, but NOT against the Trooper. I said for to get this $money NOT from Treasury BUT to attach the retirement pay from Superior Court Judge Harold W. Perkins on Laconia who REFUSED to give Drega his day in court by the judge's LIE that he "failed to state a cause of action upon which relief may be granted" but that he did state the charge of perjury by these people who were harassing him, just that he need not indicate the details in his complaint. Thus I told the Legislature that the real killer or murderer was and still is: cigarette-smoking man: retired Judge Harold W. Perkins of Laconia, who IF he had given him this venue to vent his frustrations, then the killings might NOT have happened.
Plus BTW his retirement unlawful, as the vote for him and others in the system was a budget vote for 2-years and against the law. See Article 36 of the N.H. Const., Part First & Bill of Rights. http://www.state.nh.us/ See my Case #______ in Merrimack County Superior Court @ Concord of a few years ago when I tried to halt Michael Ablowich, the then State Treasurer from sending out these retirement checks. I lost the case because the statute read for services rendered (past tense) and "to be" rendered, (future tense) as the judges (even with Alzheimers Disease by one Maurice Bois from the N.H. Supreme Court in a Manchester Nursing Home) were on "stand-by" alert, but the statute since changed to ALL past-tense, and my complaint of earlier this year to the N.H. Retirement Board (at #__ Regional Drive on the Heights/ or Chanel Drive?) and Chuck Douglas, its head at the Christian Mutual Building, #__ Loudon Rd., by the Post Office) WARNING them about this, and so to get a copy of page #___ from the State Budget showing this 2-year vote as unlawful and so WHO would like to start this NEW court case? ____________ that I'd be willing to pay the $filing fee and Sheriff's costs to get started. Surely there are other judges un-worthy of getting their retirements too, like I've already indicated in my Article 32 petitions against Wm. R. Johnson of Hanover (who threw me in jail on contempt for 62 days in 1984 when the Const. limits to 10 days by Articles 22+23, Pt. 2, and so 52 days over the #amount @ $____/day) and Peter W. Smith of Littleton, (who charged me with Champerty/ buying up land and mineral rights on Finder's Fee deals as a Bounty Hunter for Missing Heirs too cheap for $1.00 & other valuable consideration in Fall 1992 when that Spring 1992 this common law offense was taken OFF the books by the Adkins case, me spending another 100 days in jail for contempt, and so to claim: $_______ damages), both endorsed by House Rule 36, as signed by three State Reps with their District Numbers, but that the House Speaker REFUSED to process by House Rule 4 over to the appropriate committee since her legal counsel said that the State Rep. had to be the actual conveyor of the Petition in hand over the counter to a Legislative Services agent (Jill), me not told this until months AFTER I had already filed it: and so a word-to-the-wise to PREVENT this excuse in future filings.
Yours truly, - - - - - - - - - Joe / Joseph S. Haas, P.O. Box 3842, Concord, N.H. 03302, Tel. 603: 848-6059 (cell phone) e-mail: JosephSHaas at hotmail.com
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 05, 2008, 08:56 AM NHFT
Dennis, I thank you for posting to the forum and showing that not all the members of Poker Face are/think like Paul; but you are part of a band which is taken as a single package. Paul is the front man and the forum in question is one in which you are an admin. You do have some responsibilities. Similarly, as individuals, organization decision makers, and event hosts, we all have a level of responsibility for those we invite, promote, tolerate, and associate with. At this point, having read everything, re-evaluated my views, and gotten third-party reactions to the forum, I still believe being connected with PokerFace to be improper, irresponsible, and both immediately and eventually harmful.
:clap:
Quote from: FTL_Ian on August 05, 2008, 12:18 AM NHFT
The jury is still out on your beliefs, but you appear to at least be a nationalist.
I believe it is possible to be a nationalist and not a statist - where nationalist relates to racial, religious or cultural identity (like the Nation of Islam) rather than a distinct territory that defines a state.
Hi Rich,
I'll try my best to address your concerns. You raised a couple issues that you feel we endorse or promote. I hope this gives you a better idea of where we stand.
- WLLPP - never heard of them until this exchange. Can't say I would support theirs or any party as I don't tend to subscribe to the group think mentality. However, the article you cite does show that there are diverse groups clamoring for the same things. I pointed that out in a previous reply. As far as I'm concerned, you can look at this article two ways. You can nitpick on the smaller issue of white pride/separatism being addressed and consider that a problem. You can then turn your head and ignore the problem, but, that does not make it go away. Or, you can absorb the material and realize that there are people, different from yourself, who see that this so called "two-party system" isn't working and an alternative is being presented. Is there a reason why you automatically gravitate to the small negative instead of the greater positive? I guess there is also a 3rd point of view, and that would be to assume that anyone reading or reposting the article must be in agreement with all it's content. Sorry, but, I can't see how shooting the messenger accomplishes anything other than demonstrating a narrow point of view.
- Holocaust as a hoax - I've also addressed this one in a previous reply. But, let me expound. We've never denied that this was a horrible atrocity. We've never cried out for a repeat of what happened. But, we have seen alot of opportunists cloak themselves in this event to push an agenda or further their own greed. Scholars and historians, both Jew and Gentile, have raised questions about historical accuracy and the sincerity of those who profit from it. Did you know that the Red Cross has revised their numbers to well under 1 million Jews who died in the Holocaust. Is the Red Cross now an anti-semitic organization that should be rounded up and thrown in jail? Should the scholars and historians who challenge the "official story" be sitting in jail for nothing more than expressing an opinion? Maybe you think jailing people for their thoughts is ok. If so, you best not think anything ill of Homeland Security. It might not be in your best interest.
- 911 - Does anyone know exactly what happened that day? The Commission Report is a travesty and there are credible reports of Israeli involvement. I am not saying I know there was Israeli involvement. But, how can you rule this out without any consideration. For all we know, Lichtenstein may have financed the whole operation. However, no serious investigation on the part of the US government has ever produced anything but distractions and more questions.
- Satanic Jewish conspiracy - I do believe there are satanic forces at work in this world. I do believe there are people that conspire to undermine this country in a push for global governance. I do believe that there are dual loyalist individuals in very powerful positions of government and business that are shaping American policies. Are they all related? I can't say for sure. But, I will not find the answers to those questions by burying my head in the sand.
Let me cut to the chase. On a personal level, it seems that you are concerned with controversial topics that should be avoided at all costs. Certain words should not be spoken above a whisper. This is fool-hardy. You're giving in to Pavlov. As Paul Harvey has shown us, history tells us much, but then there's the rest of the story. If you want to live in a black and white world, regurgitated through mass media, so be it. But, there is a whole spectrum of color and opinions that are relevant to our world.
From my history of following FSP, the original intent was to draw a large number of people to NH so that a concerted voting block could effect political change in the state. Obviously, the organization recognizes that something isn't working with the status quo. Through efforts such as PorcFest, the Liberty Forum and other endeavors, you're educating people. You're providing another view in which to consider, among other things, how state politics and self governance can be executed in a just manner. And, I applaud you for these efforts. The rub comes when you fail to listen (and I mean really listen) to what others say. By denigrating another group of educators and activists, and purposefully acting to keep them out of your state, you have become what you, and others on this board, rail against - spreading false propaganda and isolating yourself.
As for my cohort, Mr Paul Topete, aka pokerkid, whom I did confirm were one in the same in a previous post (I'm beginning to think you read as well as you listen), the only thing I can apologize for is that he may not be as eloquent or good looking as yours truly. If you're looking for me to apologize for the initial exchange between you two, that is not my place. However, I will say that I do not blame him for being harsh when it was you who fired the first salvo. If you want to calm those waters, that is your decision to make. You pulled the lion's tail. Don't expect the lion tamer to have pity on you.
Rich, I can accept your sensitivity to these controversial topics. And, I can accept your stance of not inviting our band to your events. What really bothers me, though, is that you intiated this public witch hunt at the expense of an innocent third party. I don't know if you have fully grasped the repercussions of your actions. But, I hope you can find the humility to do what is right to correct the situation.
To bring this all around, let me state the following in case it didn't set in.
We are not racist - but racism does exist. Posting their articles or interacting with these people to effect positive change does not make us racists. Actually, it would seem that we would be the poster child of tolerance that some people clamor for.
We are not anti-semitic - but anti-semitism does exist. Exposing the crimes committed by Israeli diplomats and people of Jewish faith, just like every other country and race of people, is not a condemnation of the whole. If a crime is committed by a Jewish person, should I ignore it, or should I just call him Italian?
And, to conclude, let me say that these two isms are not the focus of our discussions with most folks from all walks of life.
Thank you for listening.
Dennis
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on August 04, 2008, 09:24 PM NHFT
So what's up with all this stuff in that email that was posted earlier?
Quote1st - What is the representation of jews on the FSP board?
Is there an over representation of dual loyalist jews, as it is in many other organizations that love freedom. Where said organization starts to do good, then later dual loyalists are elected, then all of a sudden said effort starts to fizzle, because of these judas goats working against it inside. FSP is currently NOT meeting their goals of people moving to NH, Et Tu Brute Rich? I can tell you of dozens of movements and organizations where this has happened time and time again. Ron Pauls 2008 Revolution is just the latest to get derailed. The revolutionary sayanim is right smack in the middle of it all.
Rich, are you only sensitive to jewish issues, because everything you listed in the email below as offensive to FSP has to do solely with posts/categories exposing the crimes of the criminal jew. (I said CRIMINAL JEW not all jews) One of the writers you happen to chose is a Canadien jew by the name of Henry Makow, who has no problem exposing jewish crimes and criminals. But henry must be a self hater. Obviously you didn?t read the piece he wrote, only the sensationalism of the title? http://pokerface.org/fx/viewtopic.php?t=5486
...
If I had taken your attitude of protecting criminal illegal-Mexicans in writing this email to Poker Face, I would be telling them that all of their anti-illegal immigration posts
http://pokerface.org/fx/viewforum.php?f=28
are RACIST and SUPREMACIST, & that Poker Face are a bunch of Minute-Klanners etc..? oh yeah that?s right, I have gotten called those names too, because of my AMERICAN FIRST actions. But instead I get a shitty little email like the one you wrote to me, whining about how we?re haters and anti-semites for what we allow to be posted on our forum. Grow the fuck up.
Now I find out that you are going out of your way to fuck up other events and relationship.
Quick question? Are you American First or are you JEW first. If you want me to see you color blind, then act like an American Firster, and stop covering for jews who are criminals, for that?s all we do. By you being offended by the articles posted, tells me what side of freedom YOU choose to be on ? the half truthers side. We don?t care what the truth is, no matter how ugly it may be against our own favorite groups, or against the grain of our programmed ? education. Truth is always paramount., and as well should be for EVERYONE else.
...
Anyone obsessing so much over Jews is going to have a damned hard time convincing me he's not an anti-semite. And anyone going on about "criminal illegal-Mexicans" and calling themselves an American Firster is ripe for ostracism in my opinion.
Reading through all of the recent posts, I also believe now that PokerFace (the band, as a whole) isn't racist, anti-semitic, or anything similar. It seems the PokerFace forum simply has boards to allow the discussion of controversial and taboo subjects that often attract the attention of outright racists. Back when I paid attention to international politics, I was firmly on the anti-Israeli/pro-Palestinian side of that particular debate, so I'm all too familiar with the mainstream smearing such positions as "anti-semitic"—
and genuine anti-semites trying to cloak themselves as mere anti-Zionists. I think both phenomena are going on here.
As for Paul Topete—I think the email speaks for itself.
Dennis, I'm reminded of the saying that the cover up or excusing of bad things is often worse than the thing itself. I think this applies to the topic of Poker Face and your choice of how to respond:
Rather than saying that these postings were poor judgment or simply a desire to laugh at or mock their content; you divert our discussion by a red-herring and a straw-man about freedom of speech which was never the issue (it's about association) and become an apologist for Paul and the content he's posted.
Rather than say that you'll reform your forum so that at least at first glance it does not appear to be a forum for holocaust deniers and anti-Semites, you spend your time trying to defend its current structure and content.
Rather than stating that Paul's emails are out of line and his forum comments (e.g. "no society can flourish in which the Jew feels at ease.") seriously disturb you; you challenge me as inviting them and being sensitive.
Rather than appreciating that instead of letting rumors and accusations spread about Poker Face (which was what was going on by people other than myself) I brought the issue up so you could defend yourselves; you assail me despite the fact that I only brought this up to the parties directly involved and it was Jean and Paul who expanded the sphere of the recipients.
Rather than objecting to Paul's pattern of posting articles by holocaust revisionists (I'll use the lighter term instead of deniers to be more inclusive) and racists; you post ridiculous claims about a red cross report which cannot be found (and is easily contradicted by the red cross' holocaust site and numerous studies validating the 5.1 - 5.9 million number) and present the White Liberationist Libertarian Political Party with its stated platform as just another party that people should know about.
Rather than post to your forum any of the abundant evidence and guides online for the current understanding of the holocaust (for at least a more balanced discussion); you seems okay with having a nice echo chamber and the people that attracts.
Rather than question (or be appalled) that no other country besides Israel is targeted on your forum as the organizer of a false-flag operation or a nefarious role in 911 (what about Iran, Russia, North Korea, an anti-Muslim Christian Conspiracy, or anyone else?); you claim "credible reports" (which of course are ignored by reputable authorities) and hide behind the defense of "well, no one really knows."
Rather than rejecting outright age-old anti-Semitic charges of rampant dual/dis-loyalty by Jews in authority, an international conspiracy, an ability to obfuscate and manipulate the truth, and other classics; you appear to accept them at least as possibilities worthy of focus and examination if not largely true facts about the world.
Rather than having any positive discussion about the innumerable contributions of Jews and Judaism to society and humanity or providing Jewish sources when discussing Judaism simply as a counter balance to the vilification, fear, uncertainty, and doubt promoted; your forum focuses on the "criminal Jew," (the crime(s) I'm still not aware about), and negative aspects of Judaism.
Rather than not labeling people (especially when they do bad things unrepresentative of the group) and treating them as individuals; you defend identifying Jews / Jewish criminals but seem unconcerned about not labeling White Anglo-Saxon Protestant President Bush, Black/African-American Christian Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, or anyone else.
Rather than showing concern and responding to the fact that your forum attracts undesirable people, both to your forum and your gigs, and therefore provides ample opportunity to rightly or wrongly label/smear those who positively associate with your band; you act like this is no big deal and is the problem of those who would be (rightly) put off.
I can go on, but I think you get the point. Actions or, in this case, lack of actions speak louder than your apologist writings. It's your band, your forum, your choices. Choose or deny whatever label you like, but the evidence and your reactions are now out there. People can judge for themselves.
So, who else will volunteer to help Jean put on a great event?
He invites early campers and wants to have a coordinating meeting for all of the volunteers Friday evening.
I'll post more details on that in a bit, but if you're the volunteering kind, please contact Jean at: Caacp01@aol.com - he's gone way out on a limb with this one and this can be an event that Porcs can really show their stuff at.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
I can go on, but I think you get the point. Actions or, in this case, lack of actions speak louder than your apologist writings. It's your band, your forum, your choices. Choose or deny whatever label you like, but the evidence and your reactions are now out there. People can judge for themselves.
Nuff said.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on August 05, 2008, 12:18 AM NHFT
Nice flash of your activism cred, but you're still in a band and moderate a forum with a bigoted nationalist homophobe (not racist), and you're unapologetic about it. The jury is still out on your beliefs, but you appear to at least be a nationalist.
there will be lots of nationalists at this event
Patriotism: i love my country
Nationalism: my country can beat up your country
Imperialism: here we come now
Juan whatshisname posted that a few years ago on Reason.com
btw, will there be good burgers at this get together? i loves a good burger ;)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 07, 2008, 01:50 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on August 05, 2008, 12:18 AM NHFT
Nice flash of your activism cred, but you're still in a band and moderate a forum with a bigoted nationalist homophobe (not racist), and you're unapologetic about it. The jury is still out on your beliefs, but you appear to at least be a nationalist.
there will be lots of nationalists at this event
Nationalism is curable, but bigotry - I'm not so sure.
Quote from: AnarcSyn on August 07, 2008, 01:53 PM NHFT
Patriotism: i love my country
Nationalism: my country can beat up your country
Imperialism: here we come now
You are using a narrow definition of "nationalism" - nationalism can also be based on race, gender, religion, etc. (Nation of Islam for instance).
This is how national-anarchists use the term as I cited above.
Quote from: HR Keith and Stuff on August 07, 2008, 04:04 PM NHFT
Quote from: BillKauffman on August 07, 2008, 02:02 PM NHFT
Quote from: AnarcSyn on August 07, 2008, 01:53 PM NHFT
Patriotism: i love my country
Nationalism: my country can beat up your country
Imperialism: here we come now
You are using a narrow definition of "nationalism" - nationalism can also be based on race, gender, religion, etc. (Nation of Islam for instance).
This is how national-anarchists use the term as I cited above.
Ian would be a Nationalist if Keene left NH and formed a separate nation. He would think Keene was better the the US, and he would be right :)
Me thinks he would be against any borders.
But certainly he could be called a "national-anarchist" if he wanted an autonomous region of voluntaryists in the Keene area (shire for those annointed) to be left alone from any outside influences or force.
Although he might have trouble wearing the label as National-Anarchists apparently see the hierarchies inherent in the state
and capitalism as equally oppressive.
"see the hierarchies inherent in the state" ... hmmm .. isn't that a line from a Monty Python flick? ;)
anyway ... what about the burgers? will there be burgers at this little gathering?
oh, and will any folks from the northeast anarchist network be there?
Quote from: HR Keith and Stuff on August 07, 2008, 04:04 PM NHFT
Ian would be a Nationalist if Keene left NH and formed a separate nation. He would think Keene was better the the US, and he would be right :)
Nations are a fantasy, like Santy Claus.
Quote from: AnarcSyn on August 07, 2008, 05:15 PM NHFT
anyway ... what about the burgers? will there be burgers at this little gathering?
Last year there were burgers for sale. I assume they'll be doing that again this year.
Rich, I thought long and hard about whether to continue this exchange. In the end, I felt that there needed to be further clarification because there is still anger (not hate) on both sides. This will be the last I post on this issue, mostly because I do not wish to distract from the discussion and support of LFOD. Rest assured, we do not hate you. We are extremely pissed off at your treatment of Poker Face as a representative of Free State Project, though.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Dennis, I'm reminded of the saying that the cover up or excusing of bad things is often worse than the thing itself. I think this applies to the topic of Poker Face and your choice of how to respond:
Hello, pot? It's kettle ...
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than saying that these postings were poor judgment or simply a desire to laugh at or mock their content; you divert our discussion by a red-herring and a straw-man about freedom of speech which was never the issue (it's about association) and become an apologist for Paul and the content he's posted.
It was about association for you. By the time we were given a chance to voice our defense, I was finding posts like Ian's letter to Jean and facing accusations of raging racism. The freedom of speech / censorship became a part of that discussion. You are absolutely correct that you are free to associate with who you wish. And, I've said I'm fine with that. This goes beyond FSP's right of free association to the point of telling others who they should associate with.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than say that you'll reform your forum so that at least at first glance it does not appear to be a forum for holocaust deniers and anti-Semites, you spend your time trying to defend its current structure and content.
Rich, your arrogance and ignorance is showing. There are 41 folders on our forum to choose from. One is devoted to questioning the holocaust (might I remind you that there were many others holocausts suffering hundreds of millions, if not billions, of casualities at the hands of oppressive governments - one that is estimated at 20,000,000 Christians - and that doesn't include the one that you and I both could very well witness if we don't look past this petty bullshit and focus on our own out of control government). This one folder, out of 41, is what you are bitching about. With everything from music to archaeology to all things freedom related, this one folder contains roughly 1.6% of the posts on our board. There are more posts under "Alternate Energy." You are making a stink about 1.6% of what we discuss.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than stating that Paul's emails are out of line and his forum comments (e.g. "no society can flourish in which the Jew feels at ease.") seriously disturb you; you challenge me as inviting them and being sensitive.
We went through this already. THOSE ARE NOT PAUL'S WORDS!!! My challenge to you is to LISTEN to what PAUL says. And, for that matter, listen to what I say. How many questions did I have to respond to multiple times because you weren't paying attention? And, yet, there are numerous questions I have posed to you that have gone unanswered.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than appreciating that instead of letting rumors and accusations spread about Poker Face (which was what was going on by people other than myself) I brought the issue up so you could defend yourselves; you assail me despite the fact that I only brought this up to the parties directly involved and it was Jean and Paul who expanded the sphere of the recipients.
You're trying to make it sound like you were our friggin buddy for stirring this shit up. By your own admission, you started the ball rolling. You gave us no chance to defend ourselves. Instead of coming to us directly to hear our case, your actions raised havoc at the expense of both our names and at the cost of the Live Free or Die Celebration. And, I'm supposed to be greatful? There are way more than enough agent provocateurs trying to divide the groups who seek liberty and freedom from tyranny without your help. Not only do I not consider you a buddy, but, now a threat to the credibility of the Free State Project. Do the rest of the organization a favor and walk away before you do any more damage in their name.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than objecting to Paul's pattern of posting articles by holocaust revisionists (I'll use the lighter term instead of deniers to be more inclusive) and racists; you post ridiculous claims about a red cross report which cannot be found (and is easily contradicted by the red cross' holocaust site and numerous studies validating the 5.1 - 5.9 million number) and present the White Liberationist Libertarian Political Party with its stated platform as just another party that people should know about.
When I'm wrong, I'm willing to admit it. In haste, I threw the Red Cross factoid out there from memory and it was incorrect. I'm sorry for that mistake. I did happen to find the correct information with very little trouble. In true debate fashion, let's see
where each other stands. I accept the possibility that your 5.1 - 5.9 million may be correct. But, what source could I view to see how this figure was determined? I'll gladly consider your point of view. What I was able to uncover was the International Red Cross audit from 1984 which quoted less than 1 million. Maybe this has since been revised. I also found a statement by Walter Reich, former director of the US Holocaust Museum in Washington. On September 8, 1998, The Washington Post quoted Reich as stating 1.1 - 1.5 million. The Encyclopedia of the Holocaust (Israel Gutman and Robert Rozet editors, Macmillan NY, 1990 Volume 4, Appendix pp. 1797-1803) challenges the 6 million number although I could not find an official estimate listed. Please take note that these are credited historians (not revisionists or deniers) and publications that would seem to be considered expert resources in this field. It should not diminish the fact that people died. Whether it was 6 million, 1 million, or just 1, it truly sucks. I just want to get the facts straight and not be slandered because I'm a stickler for accuracy. As for the WLLPP, I still don't give 2 shits about it. There's most likely zero chance that this one person's concept will ever come to fruition. I would hold the same view if it was the
Jewish Liberationist Libertarian Political Party. Unless they start screwing with me, or becoming a physical menace to society, I would be more interested in the things we have in common that can help improve all of our lives. It's what Paul calls the 80% solution. We all have 20% hardcore beliefs that we will probably never agree on. Let's put that shit aside and focus on the common goal of stopping the tyranny that is going to make all of our lives a living hell.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than post to your forum any of the abundant evidence and guides online for the current understanding of the holocaust (for at least a more balanced discussion); you seems okay with having a nice echo chamber and the people that attracts.
I would think most people know the mainstream view. As with most things on our board, we're providing the alternative to the mainstream since mainstream is either already known, watered down and/or often anything but "fair and balanced" to quote a certain mainstream news network. However, I am open to suggestions. Please feel free to pass information on. But, give me info that has substance. Give me something I haven't seen before.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than question (or be appalled) that no other country besides Israel is targeted on your forum as the organizer of a false-flag operation or a nefarious role in 911 (what about Iran, Russia, North Korea, an anti-Muslim Christian Conspiracy, or anyone else?); you claim "credible reports" (which of course are ignored by reputable authorities) and hide behind the defense of "well, no one really knows."
I did mention Lichtenstein. nyuk nyuk nyuk. However, once again, you have just proven that you have no knowledge of what is on our forum. Many countries are discussed if you get your nose out of that one folder. But, again I ask, is there a reason why we can't discuss the nation of Israel? You seem darn good at demanding my response (several times), so, give me a straight answer for once. If this is truly a forbidden sin, then I would expect you to take up your cause with Fox News because they filmed a 4 part series on Israel spying on America (which coincidentally was pulled from being broadcast). You can check it out on YouTube or go to http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article5133.htm - btw - I want to share with you the one point that left an impact on me after watching this. And, it had nothing to do with Jewey, whitey, darkey, speckly or whatever sub category of human you want to focus on. It was the fact that our telecommunications and wiretapping archives were compromised because we rely on foreign coding instead of training and developing these technologies in-house. For me the hot topic is government surveillance and loss of domestic security/prosperity due to international trade agreements.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than rejecting outright age-old anti-Semitic charges of rampant dual/dis-loyalty by Jews in authority, an international conspiracy, an ability to obfuscate and manipulate the truth, and other classics; you appear to accept them at least as possibilities worthy of focus and examination if not largely true facts about the world.
I tried to go easy on you with this one because I know this would be a touchy topic. That was not fair. Let me try to elaborate. Are there Jewish conspirators? Yes. Are any satanic? I don't know. Studying secular resources and different interpretations of
both the Old and New Testament, there is a case for the existence of these groups. But, even then, it does caution that this is not all inclusive. Can I say that my take on it is absolute? If anyone claimed such, they would prove themselves to be a fool. Putting the theological discussion aside, do you believe in mafias? There is the best known Italian, La Cosa Nostra, but, there are others - Russian, Jewish, etc. Does that mean you are part of any of these cabals? No. So, don't take it personally unless you want to be viewed as narrow minded or covering for criminals. If such a group does exist, and you do not favor it, why wouldn't you want to see it abolished? Let's go real age-old, here. There has been disloyalty, conspiracies and dirty tricks by all nations since the beginning of time. Israel was not perfect. As a nation, they too fell short in God's eyes. But, of them all, the tribe of Judah was chosen. Now, in this context, is the word "chosen" a verb or a noun? Does chosen mean you sit back and reap all the rewards regardless of consequence? Or, does it mean you were chosen to accomplish something and are still accountable for your actions?
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than having any positive discussion about the innumerable contributions of Jews and Judaism to society and humanity or providing Jewish sources when discussing Judaism simply as a counter balance to the vilification, fear, uncertainty, and doubt promoted; your forum focuses on the "criminal Jew," (the crime(s) I'm still not aware about), and negative aspects of Judaism.
God, strike me dead if this isn't funny to somebody who reads it ... Oh yeah, great!!! Jews have given us actors, record executives, bankers and some whiny little bitch who thinks I hate everyone of his cousins. Let's see, movies suck, I have no record deal,
the economy is tanking, and some whiny little bitch thinks I hate everyone of his cousins. ......... did I hit all the stereotypes? ......... Seriously, though, do you see us giving anybody a big high five because of their heritage? Any accolades that are given are because of deeds. However, since you need this affirmation, it might make you feel better to know that we heavily promoted, assisted in the creation of and still contribute to a project put together by our good friend Mr. Weinstein. We have had long talks with and give kudos to Barry Chamish, an author and longtime resident of Israel. Albert Einstein gave the world an enormous contribution, but, I'll probably get slammed because he also warned that there was a militant and corrupt faction that was trying to grasp control of the Israeli government. Those who he warned us about, did come to power by the way. What I find ironic is that most of the articles from our forum that you tried to hang us with, were written by Jews, exposing criminal Jews, yet you're still not aware of these criminal Jews. Is it my fault that you didn't read the material yet again?
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than not labeling people (especially when they do bad things unrepresentative of the group) and treating them as individuals; you defend identifying Jews / Jewish criminals but seem unconcerned about not labeling White Anglo-Saxon Protestant President Bush, Black/African-American Christian Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, or anyone else.
We also identify Jesuits, Rosicrucians, Catholics, Russians, Germans, Pakistanis, French, Canadians, Americans and more. Whether you like it or not, there are groups of people who act in concert with each other. YOU are selecting the one group to focus on.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
Rather than showing concern and responding to the fact that your forum attracts undesirable people, both to your forum and your gigs, and therefore provides ample opportunity to rightly or wrongly label/smear those who positively associate with your band; you act like this is no big deal and is the problem of those who would be (rightly) put off.
That's absolutely correct. That's the exact type of judgmental thinking I'm trying to get through to you. You are charging us with guilt by association and lumping yourself into the mix because you are so fixated on the smaller details and letting yourself be consumed by stereotypes. You can't generalize like that. You have this idea in your head that supremacists are flocking to our forum, or, that there's a parade of Klansmen starting hate filled mosh pits at our shows. Rich, we have the ability to reach out to a wide variety of people with a wide variety of beliefs and interests in order to get a better understanding of controversial topics. We try to learn instead of ignore. We try to do teach instead of judge. If this is something you are unable to do, I'm sorry. I've spent some time going back and reading everything that has transpired over the past week. I also dug through some old posts from the FSP board and I believe the root of your hanging us out to dry is over two guys who showed up at PorcFest '05 who I didn't even know attended. All I can say on that matter, if that is where this all stems from, is that the porcupines handled that conflict exactly right. From what I've gathered, you handed them their hats and gave them the unwelcome boot out the door for making a scene at your event. Bravo!!! Most likely, they went back to their hive and let the rest of the brood know that PorcFest wasn't really their gig. Out of the thousands and thousands of people we've interacted with, I'm genuinely sorry that two morons showed up who could not grasp FSP's concept or the fact that the band they thought was all about white-dom was half filled with members who are hispanic. As I've said before, I can accept you not wanting the band at PorcFest for whatever reason. We
never expected to be your "house band." But, letting this fester for 3 years and then actively taking part in getting us pulled from another event with which we've had nothing but good relations, and no sign of racism, is deplorable.
Quote from: Rich Goldman on August 06, 2008, 11:00 AM NHFT
I can go on, but I think you get the point. Actions or, in this case, lack of actions speak louder than your apologist writings. It's your band, your forum, your choices. Choose or deny whatever label you like, but the evidence and your reactions are now out there. People can judge for themselves.
Sheesh!!! This entire post of yours is based on trying to get me to apologize and then you call me an apologist. We could have saved alot of time and bandwidth ;-) Seriously, though, if I'm correct, you'll remember this encounter for a long time. I hope it serves as a learning experience for you. My father once told me that the best way to learn is to fall flat on your face. I think you'll be pulling gravel out of your cheeks for quite awhile. Part of me wants to believe that you acted out of ignorance of youth. Part of me feels that you lashed out because of personal sensitivity without fully understanding the views of our band and its individual members. Part of me doubts you have any sincerity and intentionally tried to silence or divide the groups within the freedom
movement. We have seen this happen several times before. Only you truly know what is in your heart and head. For the rest of your life, you're going to come across people and organizations that you do not agree with. As great as the FSP concept is, New Hampshire will never have some utopian bubble surrounding it, keeping it free from conflicting personal views or from interacting with unsavory groups that exist locally, nationally or globally. As the phrase goes, knowledge is power. Having an understanding of those who are different from yourself and identifying those who wish to undermine your safety or prosperity is paramount to living as a free man. How you choose to interact with those same parties is how you will be measured as a man.
Peace to you if your intentions are pure.
Woe to you if you live by deception.
Dennis
PS. I've spent way too much time and effort on you, but, if you do wish to continue this, let us give courtesy to LFOD and either start a separate thread or continue it off the board completely.
Rich I began to smile widely as soon as you brought up the fallacy tactics (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fallacy) used during debates, for I believe fallacies such as these are perhaps the most systemic reason for the mass confusion that defines politics nowadays. These fallacies take advantage of misaligned neuron outgrowths (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neural_network) related to the miss-programming of the logical processing center of the brain. Let us all pause then, in order that we might hone in our logical processing skills for the betterment of ourselves and to practice shifting through, typifying, recognizing, and reigning in the logical "misfirings" presented here.
I think there is the obvious Circumstantial Ad Hominem (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/circumstantial-ad-hominem.html) attack being played upon Rich because he is Jewish. It should be pointed out that Varrin, rightly, was the originator of the very basis of this discussion, and that I and others agree with Rich's position irrespective of the fact that he obviously has self interest in defending his position. He simply has taken it upon himself to present what others (who are not Jewish, may I point out) were thinking and saying in private.
How about the Description of Burden of Proof (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html)? Rich has simply asked for some proof that Pokerface, as a whole, is dedicated to discouraging racism by giving them a chance to clarify their position and pointing out the perceived problem areas. A kind of "throw me a bone here", "I want to believe". Instead, Pokerface's reply was "What is the representation of Jews on the FSP board?" and "From you Rich I would expect this level of disdain because you cover for crimes of the tribe". This reaction can only come from a deeply held belief that race should be assumed as the primary determinant of Rich's actions (since he is a Jew after all) and the FSPs actions (it must be a Jewish controlled board). This belief system is the very definition of racism. Here's a hint: To prevent yourself from falling into the -isms, always first and foremost see people as individuals.
To be clear, I believe Rich's (and other's) actions are for the very protection of the Free State Project's reputation itself. Rightly or wrongly, guilt by association is and always has been a real and constantly present political danger for the Project; just look what happened in the case of the Free Town Project. Was it too much to ask for Pokerface to clarify their position for the benefit of everyone? Well... to their detriment, they have clarified now. Their position is one of, now, public belligerence, stubbornness, over-defensiveness, staying off topic, and total lack of acceptance of compromise. In some alternate dimension this discussion could have very well been met with candor, stayed private, and perhaps even been resolved through understanding.
In the larger picture, I believe one of the most important fallacies at work here is "cum hoc ergo propter hoc", or correlation does not imply causation. i.e. the statement "There are a lot of Jews in 'evil' power positions" does not imply a conspiracy of Jews to be evil, nor even a conspiracy to be in power. Also we have "the statistics of small numbers" whereby because the only Jews I see are the Jews in 'evil' power positions, then all or most Jews must be 'evil'. First of all I could say the same about a 'rich white' conspiracy called 'The United States of America' created to rule the world... how wrong, really, does that accusation look on its face? It looks pretty correct to a simple minded fool (of which there are many I'm sure). So ergo because I'm an American, does that now make me part of the grand conspiracy? Does that make me complicit in the conspiracy? This brand of logic does not compute.
This argument of a grand Jewish conspiracy is really silly at this point, and this is what it really comes down to folks: there are only a few conspirators out there numbering in the hundreds who ultimately cause all our legitimately large problems, and that is not a group large enough to define any other group other than itself. It is an exercise in stupidity to as much as dally about in the thought that a large group could even hold on to, reap, and distribute the benefits of its own power. For if that were really true, wouldn't democracy actually work in practice? To hold on to, reap, and distribute ever more power it must always be, by definition, an ever more smaller group. To hold the most power, you must be of the smallest group.
Race is used as a divider, and those who make the race distinction of prominent importance in the perception of others are dividers. History shows that power is not race based, for it lends itself to those families with the most ambition, patience, and highest intelligence.
Nisht gedeiget, anyone up for an alternative group (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XrRyqses5U)? A getrayer yid with some taam (http://ravshmuel.com/pages/music-01.html)
Quote from: gunplay on August 10, 2008, 12:22 AM NHFT
How about the Description of Burden of Proof (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/burden-of-proof.html)? Rich has simply asked for some proof that Pokerface, as a whole, is dedicated to discouraging racism by giving them a chance to clarify their position and pointing out the perceived problem areas.
I will need proof from you that you are not a militant Zionist working under the hypnotic control of Rich Goldbloom. :lockstep:
BTW .... who are you? You seem interested in keeping the FSP's reputation clean ... do you mind being open with the rest of the world about your involvement or has the Jewish controlled FSP board headed up by Goldfinger issued a gag order? :_The_Leprechaun_Life__by_Jord
Quote
To be clear, I believe Rich's (and other's) actions are for the very protection of the Free State Project's reputation itself.
I don't really get why Rich Goldberg is involved in this "Celebration" ... is Mr. Goldstein planning on attending? (I am not) There are lots of "freedom" events all over the place that I am not that excited to be connected to.
Sorry for the lack of a response (though I doubt people were upset ;-). Yesterday was Shabbat (day of rest -> no computer) and in the evening was the start of Tisha B'av (Jewish day of mourning for the destruction of the temples and various historical sad events). Anyway:
Dennis, I'll basically give you the last word so that this can be done with. I'll simply request that you (and others) visit http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi (http://www.nizkor.org/qar-complete.cgi) and use more varied/reputable sources of information on various topics (I know, you may be thinking the same about me, but nonetheless); reform the content and rhetoric of your forum; and realize that my intentions (and actions) are pure.
gunplay: Thanks for your posts and the funny video. I appreciated them.
Russell: similarly, thanks for the humor. In response to what I think was a serious question, I involved myself for many reasons, but mainly because too many people were ignorant of or turning a blind-eye to a problem.
So now, as everyone has been advocating from the beginning, please focus on making the LFOD festival a success :-)
I didn't know you were an "observant" jew Rich.
It was kinda a funny thread because it was like one side of a conversation.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 10, 2008, 07:22 AM NHFT
I will need proof from you that you are not a militant Zionist working under the hypnotic control of Rich Goldbloom. :lockstep:
BTW .... who are you? You seem interested in keeping the FSP's reputation clean ... do you mind being open with the rest of the world about your involvement or has the Jewish controlled FSP board headed up by Goldfinger issued a gag order?
:NinjaIconA: Greg Surbey: Do you expect me to talk?
:drevil: Rich Goldfinger: No, Mr. Surbey. I expect you to imply!
I kinda like the Free State Project ;D
Who're planning on going to this? Coutu is asking for some copies of the NHFP, if anyone is planning on going over.
I'll be staffing the AIYH table there.
Then if you think of it, could you grab papers from our box on Railroad Square to take over? If so, muchos gracias. :D If not, well thanks anyway ;D
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 20, 2008, 08:44 AM NHFT
Then if you think of it, could you grab papers from our box on Railroad Square to take over? If so, muchos gracias. :D If not, well thanks anyway ;D
Yes, I will try to remember. :)
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 20, 2008, 07:56 AM NHFT
Who're planning on going to this? Coutu is asking for some copies of the NHFP, if anyone is planning on going over.
Aren't you, Kira and Russel going?
I'll be there with a big camping tent if anyone wants to go and needs Friday and Saturday night shelter. (Tonight, too, if I can get it all together and outa town, but not likely).
I'll also have the Expo Café set up with AltJava, Café Libre, and LiberTea - all free in your AltExpo mugs! (I'll still have mugs for sale, too) - probably some other goodies, too, like Oatmeal in the morning and popcorn in the afternoon.
As far as I know Jean could still use volunteers and at this point, if you just show up on Friday afternoon, I'm sure he'll put you to use and provide a cool T-shirt.
Quote from: jaqeboy on August 21, 2008, 01:54 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 20, 2008, 07:56 AM NHFT
Who're planning on going to this? Coutu is asking for some copies of the NHFP, if anyone is planning on going over.
Aren't you, Kira and Russel going?
we are sending you to represent us :)
I'm planning to camp Friday night, attend Saturday staffing the AIYH table, go to the after party and then camp Saturday night. I have a tent that could easily hold two maybe even three besides me depending on whether you have an air mattress or not. I think my roommates might already be filling it up but it's possible there will be a space or two.
Quote from: dalebert on August 22, 2008, 12:15 AM NHFT
I'm planning to camp Friday night, attend Saturday staffing the AIYH table, go to the after party and then camp Saturday night. I have a tent that could easily hold two maybe even three besides me depending on whether you have an air mattress or not. I think my roommates might already be filling it up but it's possible there will be a space or two.
Note to Dale=
REMEMBER TO BRING TENT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 21, 2008, 08:22 PM NHFT
Quote from: jaqeboy on August 21, 2008, 01:54 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on August 20, 2008, 07:56 AM NHFT
Who're planning on going to this? Coutu is asking for some copies of the NHFP, if anyone is planning on going over.
Aren't you, Kira and Russel going?
we are sending you to represent us :)
OK, but it was hard to be all 4 of us at once. Expo Café was a huge success - we added a variety of snack foods at this event. The whole thing was a huge success and I tried to listen to the music til the last tune at 6AM, but eyes and ears shut down at 3AM - yaaaawwwwwn!
We had an after-event meeting to plan for next year and there's a good, strong core of planners for the next event, which should be bigger and better than ever!
Quote from: jaqeboy on August 29, 2008, 12:33 PM NHFT
OK, but it was hard to be all 4 of us at once. Expo Café was a huge success - we added a variety of snack foods at this event.
It was brilliant to have snacks at night when the bands are playing. You know how all that music can give you the munchies.
I thought smoking chronic gives ya the munchies...
Quote from: dalebert on August 29, 2008, 02:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: jaqeboy on August 29, 2008, 12:33 PM NHFT
OK, but it was hard to be all 4 of us at once. Expo Café was a huge success - we added a variety of snack foods at this event.
It was brilliant to have snacks at night when the bands are playing. You know how all that music can give you the munchies.
Yeah, part of my devious plan - put out a spread of all my favorite munchies and make everyone else pay for them!!