New Hampshire Underground

Regional Discussion => Monadnock => Keene => Topic started by: slim on June 18, 2008, 07:37 PM NHFT

Title: Coconut pulled over
Post by: slim on June 18, 2008, 07:37 PM NHFT
A Porc411 (attached) was sent out by Coconut apparently some cop decided he violated some arbitrary rule.

Title: Pulled over
Post by: Coconut on June 18, 2008, 08:11 PM NHFT
As anyone who heard my Porc411 call knows, I was victimized in Walpole. I was unsure of the "limit" and traveling at a safe speed. I'm starting to believe in this Law of Attraction thing, only because I drive in dread of being pulled over, and follow the speeds when I know them, and it still happens when I'm being careful. I will send in a Not Guilty, but I'm not sure of my angle after that... slightly (slightly!) toying with the idea that I won't play along with this extortion anymore.

I may have finally remembered to audio record the interaction. It's not too interesting though.

officer-"What's the speed limit?"
Coconut-"Not sure."
"What's your speed."
"not sure.... zero right now."
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: slim on June 18, 2008, 08:12 PM NHFT
Coconut put out another porc411 and said he was released with a speeding violation.
Title: Re: Pulled over
Post by: dalebert on June 18, 2008, 08:33 PM NHFT
"What's your speed."
"not sure.... zero right now."

:)
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: Kat Kanning on June 18, 2008, 08:54 PM NHFT
That sucks.  Plan to pay it or resist it somehow?
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: Coconut on June 18, 2008, 09:07 PM NHFT
That sucks.  Plan to pay it or resist it somehow?

Good question. I'm still in the angry stage. Tomorrow will be the regretful/self-blame stage. By the weekend I can start thinking clear on it again. I'm a safe driver; I don't go pushing the pedal to the floor. I was going what I figured the car about 100 feet ahead of me was going. I can't say anything for certain, but in the 15 minutes since I said I was slightly toying with the idea of not paying... I've been more than slightly. This year might be a good time in my life to go the Manning/Krause route. I was hurting nobody and putting nobody in danger.

Fortunately it looks like it would be in Keene, so hopefully I would have some support if I did that.
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: Kat Kanning on June 18, 2008, 09:09 PM NHFT
Sure would  :)
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: maulotaur on June 18, 2008, 10:12 PM NHFT
I'm a safe driver; I don't go pushing the pedal to the floor. I was going what I figured the car about 100 feet ahead of me was going. I can't say anything for certain, but in the 15 minutes since I said I was slightly toying with the idea of not paying... I've been more than slightly. This year might be a good time in my life to go the Manning/Krause route. I was hurting nobody and putting nobody in danger.

I would like to propose that all speed limits be removed and that the only violation be driving in a manner which poses a serious hazard to other drivers.  Recommended safe speeds could remain as a guide so that the driver chooses to drive at the speed that they feel comfortable going according to their ability so long as they do not damage another drivers person or property.

-Paul
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: Coconut on June 18, 2008, 10:53 PM NHFT
I'm a safe driver; I don't go pushing the pedal to the floor. I was going what I figured the car about 100 feet ahead of me was going. I can't say anything for certain, but in the 15 minutes since I said I was slightly toying with the idea of not paying... I've been more than slightly. This year might be a good time in my life to go the Manning/Krause route. I was hurting nobody and putting nobody in danger.

I would like to propose that all speed limits be removed and that the only violation be driving in a manner which poses a serious hazard to other drivers.  Recommended safe speeds could remain as a guide so that the driver chooses to drive at the speed that they feel comfortable going according to their ability so long as they do not damage another drivers person or property.

-Paul


You're not going to find much disagreement around here. Unfortunately that doesn't help me right now :)
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: David on June 19, 2008, 07:28 AM NHFT
Speeding tickets are a huge cash cow, they are not going to change anytime soon.   :-\
Sorry about your luck, Mr. Nut.  When you are ready to challenge it, you will have support.  8)  Please at least take it to court, if for no other reason than to force them to take time to actually prove you violated their revenue 'driving' codes. 
Of course, if you refuse to pay, (civ dis) it makes it that much more expensive for them to enforce this crap.   :(

Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: NJLiberty on June 19, 2008, 08:06 AM NHFT
I'm sorry you were pulled over. The couple tickets I have ever gotten I took to court just to make them show up and justify themselves in public, and to make the ticket as costly as possible to them. Thankfully most of the time here they just tell you to slow it down a bit and be more careful.

They are about to start a new crack down here in NJ though. The Division of Highway Traffic Safety is again giving grants to a number of police departments here to cover overtime so they can increase enforcement on speeding in July. The town I live in and the one I travel through to work are part of this program this year so it should be an interesting month coming up. Must be a slow month for revenues.

George
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: maulotaur on June 21, 2008, 08:56 PM NHFT
Thankfully most of the time here they just tell you to slow it down a bit and be more careful.

Do they just give 'warnings' in Keene?  I could never be that lucky  :-\ 
Come to think of it, during my few days in town, I do not recall seeing any cops pulling anyone off the road though.  There was this air-raid siren thing going off at like noon every day though <shrug>

Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: David on June 21, 2008, 09:27 PM NHFT
Before I junked my car, I had actually been pulled over about 3or 4 other times for various things.  They always look up my info, then all except once let me go with a verbal warning. 

I forgot what the siren was for, but I know that in the downtown circle, they blare it when an ambulance or firetruck goes through. 
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: FTL_Ian on June 21, 2008, 10:03 PM NHFT
I hate that siren.   >:(
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: Coconut on June 21, 2008, 11:28 PM NHFT
I think people complain too much about the siren. But that might be because I've lived next to it for 20 years. The noon thing is something different; like a big foghorn to let everyone know it's time for lunch? They also blow it if there's a fire in town.
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: Pat K on June 21, 2008, 11:51 PM NHFT
So people can't figure out it is noon by them selves?
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: NJLiberty on June 22, 2008, 07:43 AM NHFT
We had the sirens here too when I was a kid, before they all switched over to scanners. They blew the siren every day at noon to test it to make sure it was working properly. When it went off other times, the number of times it sounded indicated what type of emergency it was. When I was real little and we still practiced hiding under our desks in case of nuclear attack, there was a separate air raid siren that they only sounded when we were practicing that we were being attacked by the Soviets.

George
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: John Edward Mercier on June 22, 2008, 07:51 AM NHFT
That sucks.  Plan to pay it or resist it somehow?

Good question. I'm still in the angry stage. Tomorrow will be the regretful/self-blame stage. By the weekend I can start thinking clear on it again. I'm a safe driver; I don't go pushing the pedal to the floor. I was going what I figured the car about 100 feet ahead of me was going. I can't say anything for certain, but in the 15 minutes since I said I was slightly toying with the idea of not paying... I've been more than slightly. This year might be a good time in my life to go the Manning/Krause route. I was hurting nobody and putting nobody in danger.

Fortunately it looks like it would be in Keene, so hopefully I would have some support if I did that.
How far we're you over the posted limit? I think a judge would find in your favor in that you did not know the posted limit and were travelling at pervailing (car in front) speeds.
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: Coconut on June 22, 2008, 11:30 AM NHFT
That sucks.  Plan to pay it or resist it somehow?

Good question. I'm still in the angry stage. Tomorrow will be the regretful/self-blame stage. By the weekend I can start thinking clear on it again. I'm a safe driver; I don't go pushing the pedal to the floor. I was going what I figured the car about 100 feet ahead of me was going. I can't say anything for certain, but in the 15 minutes since I said I was slightly toying with the idea of not paying... I've been more than slightly. This year might be a good time in my life to go the Manning/Krause route. I was hurting nobody and putting nobody in danger.

Fortunately it looks like it would be in Keene, so hopefully I would have some support if I did that.
How far we're you over the posted limit? I think a judge would find in your favor in that you did not know the posted limit and were travelling at pervailing (car in front) speeds.

54 in a 35 was the charge.  I intend to ask the officer in court if I made any clear attempt to slow down when I saw him, which I did not, because I was unaware that I was breaking the law. What I'm wondering now is: if I'm going to refuse to pay their ransom, do I tell the judge I'm not paying after I plead my case, or after he comes to a verdict? David did it during his testimony, which I think had an effect on the "fine" the judge imposed on him.
Title: Re: Coconut pulled over
Post by: John Edward Mercier on June 22, 2008, 06:29 PM NHFT
If I remember correctly Dave was found guilty of non-registration then the fine was partial suspended. The guilty finding means points... which can affect things like insurance costs.
Title: Re: Pulled over
Post by: MTPorcupine3 on June 23, 2008, 10:40 PM NHFT
As anyone who heard my Porc411 call knows, I was victimized in Walpole. I was unsure of the "limit" and traveling at a safe speed. I'm starting to believe in this Law of Attraction thing, only because I drive in dread of being pulled over, and follow the speeds when I know them, and it still happens when I'm being careful. I will send in a Not Guilty, but I'm not sure of my angle after that... slightly (slightly!) toying with the idea that I won't play along with this extortion anymore.

I may have finally remembered to audio record the interaction. It's not too interesting though.

officer-"What's the speed limit?"
Coconut-"Not sure."
"What's your speed."
"not sure.... zero right now."

Here are some suggestions how one might answer the officer's opening question, bearing in mind that A) There is no one right way to answer, B) There are no guarantees what the outcome might be no matter what you do or say (with some imput from Bald Eagle):

"Before I answer that question, can you please tell me the probable cause for your stopping me? Is that a crime in this State? Thank you for ascertaining that I haven't committed a crime. May I go now?"
"Why, officer? Was I going too slow?"
"Why, officer? Are you suggesting that I was traveling in an unsafe manner?"
"Are you investigating a crime? And if so, how may I help you?"
"Am I legally required to answer that question?"
[Silence]
"I'd like to speak to my attorney/lawyer."
"I'm sorry, but I choose not to waive my Fifth Amendment Right."
"I'd like to help you, but my legal counsel says I shouldn't engage in a conversation with a police officer."
"Is this a Terry search, or a fishing expedition?"
"Isn't it a little late/cold/wet/dark for a fishing expedition?"
"Is this a voluntary encounter? Am I being detained?"
"Before I answer that question, can you please tell me your capacity? (Are you a State Trooper, _____ City Police Officer....?) When you became a State Trooper/Police Officer, did you or did you not take an oath to support, defend and uphold the Constitution for the United States and the Constituition for the State of New Hampshire? [If he sidesteps the question] Was that a yes or no? [When he says yes] Are you going to uphold that oath right here and right now with me?"
"Can you please speak louder? Millions on YouTube are watching."
"Sir, have you accepted Jesus Christ as your Lord and personal saviour?"
"Hello Officer, my name is Russell Kanning."
"Aren't you the guy who arrested Russell Kanning / Lauren Canario?"