New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => Underground Projects => Secession => Topic started by: JimmyCracka on October 25, 2008, 01:40 PM NHFT

Title: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: JimmyCracka on October 25, 2008, 01:40 PM NHFT
Hi. My name is Jimmy. I used to live in Lincoln and my father lives in Woodesville. Right now i live in Whitman, Ma and i'm looking for a place to live in the North Country for my family and I. I know this topic may sound crazy to some but it's a legitimate issue. The state secretary of Montana sent a letter to the federal government warning that if the feds try to disarm the American people via nationwide confiscastion of all firearms that they would not surrender their arms and would secede from the union and become an independent state. It seems that the majority view on this forum are conservative but I also see many moderates and a few on the left. Those are the ones who sometimes seem quick to write off many truths as "crazy". Now speaking on behalf of myself and most other constitution loving conservatives, this sounds like a good idea and is an important for any state that wants to send a strong message against tyranny. It is classic history that all gun registrations lead to confiscation which eventually leads to despotism. Top economists are stating that we've entered into an economic depression that makes 1929 look like a late car payment. If you view the Patriot act, the homeland security act and NSPD 51 & HSPD 20 you can clearly see that the president now has total dictatorial powers. The constitution is going to be erased. The North American Union. The Amero (our new currency). All this stuff is real!!! Back in the nineties it was understandable when they would say "Oh, your one of those conspiracy theorists heh heh" Those who say that now, I know are willingly ignorant and happily stupid! There is too much to ignore now. The truth is right in front of your face. These are the same people who listen to a talking head for an average of ten minutes a night but know everything. The same people who interupt an intellectual, political  conversation with "Hey, did you see the game?" :-p the ones that tell you "That will never happen" and when you ask why, they brilliantly reply with "Uh, because....umm..... it can't....just....uh.....um....der......because it just can't!....uh....did you hear about Britney Spears?" I'm not trying to offend anyone but the abundance of apathy still existing in this country is the leading cause of our destruction. Anyways, my question to you, the great residents of NH, would you follow in the steps of Montana or surrender your weapons? Also, what do you think of everything else I ranted about. On my Google "Shared Stuff" page I have links to some awesome, highly informative, documentaries, articles and web sites I think everyone should check out. www.google.com/s2/sharing/stuff?user=102802475709137339968 (http://www.google.com/s2/sharing/stuff?user=102802475709137339968) Check out the alarming congressional sessions on C-Span. Also see Joe Biden and Collin Powell telling us of an imminent, international crisis of great magnitude coming around Jan. 23rd or 24th but refuse to say what it will be! Tell me what you think??? Thanks for letting me unravel like a spool..........Jimmy
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Dave Ridley on October 25, 2008, 01:46 PM NHFT
What do I think, Jimmy?  i think its good to have you here on NHFree and will be better to have you in new hampshire...!
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Toadstool on October 25, 2008, 01:58 PM NHFT
I think we be f'd in the a.   :o

I will not remove my firearm for govt.  as that ole bastard once said. "from my cold dead hands"  I think its going to be odd having my brother in the Army come to my home and try to disarm me!!!  odd.

Lucky for me I live in NH! and feel safe here.
What do we do!?
I been looking into these things for a while, and now wondering what I can do,
I am looking for land and trying to move my 10 cars / trucks/ welders/tools/ etc to said land and live.  in northern nh
I am trying to live on land and go back to farm style living to teach myself, to survive... my gut has been telling me to man up! and I found Dave Ridley and you guys and now feel much better!!!  I know we'll be ok in NH!!!

LIVE FREE OR DIE                 
TRYING!!!!
PEACE


Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: AntonLee on October 25, 2008, 02:10 PM NHFT
maybe the entire seacoast can secede from NH and become part of MA.

can ya tell I've been dealing with too much statism in this region?
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on October 25, 2008, 02:32 PM NHFT
But what about the 'Freetown' Seabrook? :P
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: AntonLee on October 25, 2008, 02:44 PM NHFT
got pulled over today by a nice seabrook cop who wanted to know why I had a Moustache man mask in my car, and if I planned on doing something illegal while wearing it.

there's a long way to go here Lloyd.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Josh on October 25, 2008, 03:18 PM NHFT
got pulled over today by a nice seabrook cop who wanted to know why I had a Moustache man mask in my car


because it's almost fucking HALLOWEEN, mayhaps?
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Toadstool on October 25, 2008, 03:27 PM NHFT
got pulled over today by a nice seabrook cop who wanted to know why I had a Moustache man mask in my car


because it's almost fucking HALLOWEEN, mayhaps?


lmao!!!

you should have told him to listen to the "music"  lmao!!

or a nice remember remember the 5th of NOV!

Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: JimmyCracka on October 25, 2008, 06:45 PM NHFT
Still learning my way around this forum. Didn't realize there was a whole section on the topic of secession. Thank you for all the replies everybody. These are perilous times and despite right/left, black/white or whatever unnecessary division that may plague us, America must unite and save the dwindling republic. i see some talk about Anarchy in the forum so i just wanted to state my stance is for the good ol' Constitutional Republic. Its our only hope for sustainable liberty. I think we can keep it this time providing we just don't make the same mistakes. Like allowing European aristocrats to control our monetary system! No more two party BS either! Your either for the Constitution or you can move to Cuba or Russia. See ya! Leadership positions based on qualifications and not ideology. And for the love of God...............NO MORE F**KING LAWYERS IN THE WHITE HOUSE OR CONGRESS!!! How many times do we need plain English interpreted, re-interpreted and re-re-re-interpreted!!! I still would like to know what the overall sentiment is of the residents of NH,VT and ME about seceding from the union. I can speak on behalf of Massachusetts. No, we love immorality, ignorance, big taxes and big government. We love Vaseline too. Makes it so much easier to shove our heads up our ass!!! Somebody get me out of here  :o
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: AntonLee on October 26, 2008, 01:40 AM NHFT
got pulled over today by a nice seabrook cop who wanted to know why I had a Moustache man mask in my car


because it's almost fucking HALLOWEEN, mayhaps?

and just got back from a walk at Hampton to see the nice cops walking around my car in the main parking lot.  Mind you, 12am empty beach, no other cars in the lot anywhere near mine.  I kept walking past and then crossed over and returned to my car as they were leaving.  I had to look twice, I could have sworn they were the thought police. 
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on October 26, 2008, 07:06 AM NHFT
Montana was a US Territory... so if it revokes its statehood... it once again becomes a US Territory.
Its whole existance is based on the US Constitution, so it can't cede from it.

To my knowledge, only the original thirteen colonies, Texas, and Hawaii can cede.
As their basis for formation was not the US Constitution, which they later entered into.


Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 26, 2008, 07:31 AM NHFT
Montana was a US Territory... so if it revokes its statehood... it once again becomes a US Territory.
Its whole existance is based on the US Constitution, so it can't cede from it.

To my knowledge, only the original thirteen colonies, Texas, and Hawaii can cede.
As their basis for formation was not the US Constitution, which they later entered into.


Can't secede? Dissolving political bonds is what history is full of.

Can secede? They killed a lot of folks when they tried.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 26, 2008, 08:55 AM NHFT
I wonder how something like Montana becomes a US Territory? ..... oh yea ... they shoot people that already live there. That doesn't sound like something that jimmycracker will call legitimate.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on October 26, 2008, 10:55 AM NHFT
Obviously does.
If someone steals your car, I rent it from them and drive it for four years... can I then declare it mine?

It might be yours... might be theirs... but its definately not mine.

It then becomes a fight between you and them as to ownership...
Pretty sure many of the Native tribes of Montana would declare that if it is no longer a US State or Territory it is ceded to them as occupants of the first order.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: KBCraig on October 26, 2008, 07:47 PM NHFT
I wonder how something like Montana becomes a US Territory? ..... oh yea ... they shoot people that already live there. That doesn't sound like something that jimmycracker will call legitimate.

They bought it from France. At least the part east of the continental divide.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Brandon on October 31, 2008, 09:18 PM NHFT
I think we be f'd in the a.   :o

I will not remove my firearm for govt.  as that ole bastard once said. "from my cold dead hands"  I think its going to be odd having my brother in the Army come to my home and try to disarm me!!!  odd.





It probably wouldn't be your brother coming to disarm you, but UN "peacekeepers".
I think foriegn troops would follow orders opposed to the Constitution without thinking twice about it.
American troops may actually view what they were doing as wrong, and think about why they joined the military in the first place.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 01, 2008, 01:03 AM NHFT
or cops in Naulins
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: Brandon on November 01, 2008, 01:07 AM NHFT
Yep
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: BillKauffman on November 01, 2008, 08:20 AM NHFT

To my knowledge, only the original thirteen colonies, Texas, and Hawaii can cede.
As their basis for formation was not the US Constitution, which they later entered into.



When Virginia, New York and Rhode Island ratified the United States Constitution, their conventions specifically ordained the root principles of secession on which the right was founded:

1. "That all power is naturally vested in, and consequently derived from the people,"

2. "That the powers of government may be reassumed by the people whensover it shall become necessary to their happiness."
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on November 01, 2008, 08:59 AM NHFT
So did NH...
But some digression over the Jay Treaty remains.
Jefferson and his Democratic Republicans held the treaty to be illegal, in so much as the treaty violated previous treaty with France... and rendered unto the US, French lands currently under British occupational force.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: David on December 26, 2008, 11:46 AM NHFT
The irony of this discussion, is that secession would not require permission from anyone to do.  you do not ask permission to seperate, you say you are going to to it, then figure out how to do it (the tricky part).  How those interested in secession do it will increase or decrease its legitimacy when they do it.  For example, the Lakotah tribe that wants independence is doing so on the basis that the US gov't has repeatedly broken its treaties with the tribe.  The issue of legitimacy is tied largely to support, the more legit they are the more support they will have. 
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 26, 2008, 01:10 PM NHFT
The Lakotah Tribe isn't seceding... it was never a part of the Union.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: David on December 26, 2008, 02:28 PM NHFT
On paper I agree, but tell that to the feds.   ;)  I somehow doubt they will agree. 
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 26, 2008, 04:20 PM NHFT
Texas wasn't a territory.

There might be some federal land within its boundaries that was purchased at a later date... be it was a sorvereign republic before entrance to the Union.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 26, 2008, 04:35 PM NHFT
While its a State... but by secession its protection under the US Constitution ends.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: BillKauffman on December 26, 2008, 04:53 PM NHFT
is that secession would not require permission from anyone to do.  you do not ask permission to seperate, you say you are going to to it, then figure out how to do it (the tricky part). 

I would suggest a list of grievances and nullification first.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 26, 2008, 04:58 PM NHFT
I would equate it to NH having to 'buy back' federal properties...
More of a means to a quick recognition of its sovereignty.

While if we simply tried to annex the property, it might be considered by the outside as revolutionary...

As for the grievances and nullification, wouldn't that require much the same... a political body that supports at the minimum a return to State sovereignty through self-attained independence?
Since the State of NH depends more than need be on the federal government, and the majority seems to accept this... wouldn't that need to be changed?


Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: David on December 26, 2008, 11:21 PM NHFT
is that secession would not require permission from anyone to do.  you do not ask permission to seperate, you say you are going to to it, then figure out how to do it (the tricky part). 

I would suggest a list of grievances and nullification first.
Funny that you suggest that, I was working on a slight modification of the US Declaration of Independence.  The bold print is mine, otherwise it is the same Declaration. Suggestions for additional grieviances,  Prepare for walls of text.   ;) 

IN CONGRESS, JULY 4, 1776
The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen united States of America

When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve  the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the  powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of  Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that  they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are  endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life,  Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are  instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, —  That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the  Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its  foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall  seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate  that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient  causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to  suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to  which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing  invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism,  it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards  for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and  such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of  Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated  injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute  Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

He has refused his Assent to Laws, the most wholesome and necessary for the public  good.

He has forbidden his Governors to pass Laws of immediate and pressing importance,  unless suspended in their operation till his Assent should be obtained; and when so  suspended, he has utterly neglected to attend to them.

He has refused to pass other Laws for the accommodation of large districts of people,  unless those people would relinquish the right of Representation in the Legislature, a  right inestimable to them and formidable to tyrants only.

He has called together legislative bodies at places unusual, uncomfortable, and distant  from the depository of their Public Records, for the sole purpose of fatiguing them into  compliance with his measures.

He has dissolved Representative Houses repeatedly, for opposing with manly firmness  his invasions on the rights of the people.

He has refused for a long time, after such dissolutions, to cause others to be elected,  whereby the Legislative Powers, incapable of Annihilation, have returned to the People  at large for their exercise; the State remaining in the mean time exposed to all the  dangers of invasion from without, and convulsions within.

He has endeavoured to prevent the population of these States; for that purpose  obstructing the Laws for Naturalization of Foreigners; refusing to pass others to  encourage their migrations hither, and raising the conditions of new Appropriations of  Lands.
-An esitmated 12 million souls are called illegal immigrants due to the obstruction of peaceful migrations, and there are numerous obstructions on ownership and/or rental of land and transportation. 

He has obstructed the Administration of Justice by refusing his Assent to Laws for  establishing Judiciary Powers.

He has made Judges dependent on his Will alone for the tenure of their offices, and the  amount and payment of their salaries.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harass  our people and eat out their substance.
-Parisitical levels and types of taxation

He has kept among us, in times of peace, Standing Armies without the Consent of our  legislatures.
-It is a historical fact, that the USA has had a standing army for a very long time in times of peace,

He has affected to render the Military independent of and superior to the Civil Power.
-Police actions.

He has combined with others to subject us to a jurisdiction foreign to our constitution,  and unacknowledged by our laws; giving his Assent to their Acts of pretended  Legislation:

For quartering large bodies of armed troops among us:
-Many local law enforcement agencies have been militarized by the weapons and training received from the federal government in the form of SWAT training, and all state militias known as the national gaurd, have been placed under federal government control, or must be ready to be under federal government control.

For protecting them, by a mock Trial from punishment for any Murders which they  should commit on the Inhabitants of these States:
-It is an unwritten rule that those in law enforcement capacities and government service capacities rarely recieve santion equal to that of others for equal offenses. 

For cutting off our Trade with all parts of the world:
-Trade is regulated and strangled with numerous rules and complicated and onerous provisions. 

For imposing Taxes on us without our Consent:

For depriving us in many cases, of the benefit of Trial by Jury:

For transporting us beyond Seas to be tried for pretended offences:

For abolishing the free System of English Laws in a neighbouring Province, establishing  therein an Arbitrary government, and enlarging its Boundaries so as to render it at once  an example and fit instrument for introducing the same absolute rule into these Colonies
-In the neighboring city of New Orleans, the populations were forced to obey curfews, were forcibly disarmed, and were prevented from receiving charitable donations in a time of need. 

For taking away our Charters, abolishing our most valuable Laws and altering  fundamentally the Forms of our Governments:

For suspending our own Legislatures, and declaring themselves invested with power to  legislate for us in all cases whatsoever.

He has abdicated Government here, by declaring us out of his Protection and waging  War against us.

He has plundered our seas, ravaged our coasts, burnt our towns, and destroyed the  lives of our people.
-The corruptable concept of Eminent Domain has been used agianst the people for perversions of even the stated and corruptable purpose of public good. 

He is at this time transporting large Armies of foreign Mercenaries to compleat the  works of death, desolation, and tyranny, already begun with circumstances of Cruelty &  Perfidy scarcely paralleled in the most barbarous ages, and totally unworthy the Head  of a civilized nation.

He has constrained our fellow Citizens taken Captive on the high Seas to bear Arms  against their Country, to become the executioners of their friends and Brethren, or to fall  themselves by their Hands.

He has excited domestic insurrections amongst us, and has endeavoured to bring on  the inhabitants of our frontiers, the merciless Indian Savages whose known rule of  warfare, is an undistinguished destruction of all ages, sexes and conditions.
-Undercover agents acting as agent provacatuers have incited riots, violence, and persecution due to their efforts to entrap others, as they encourage the commission of crimes as they investigate alledged crimes. 

In every stage of these Oppressions We have Petitioned for Redress in the most  humble terms: Our repeated Petitions have been answered only by repeated injury. A  Prince, whose character is thus marked by every act which may define a Tyrant, is unfit  to be the ruler of a free people.

Nor have We been wanting in attentions to our British brethren. We have warned them  from time to time of attempts by their legislature to extend an unwarrantable jurisdiction  over us. We have reminded them of the circumstances of our emigration and settlement  here. We have appealed to their native justice and magnanimity, and we have conjured  them by the ties of our common kindred to disavow these usurpations, which would  inevitably interrupt our connections and correspondence. They too have been deaf to the  voice of justice and of consanguinity. We must, therefore, acquiesce in the necessity,  which denounces our Separation, and hold them, as we hold the rest of mankind,  Enemies in War, in Peace Friends.

We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General  Congress, Assembled, appealing to the Supreme Judge of the world for the rectitude of  our intentions, do, in the Name, and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies,  solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be  Free and Independent States, that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British  Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is  and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have  full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and  to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. — And for  the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of Divine  Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes, and our sacred  Honor.
-Two Hundred and Thirty Three years later, We, a Good and Peaceful People, solemnly declare that we will no longer be politically connected, nor subordinate to any government establishment in the Americas.  We pledge brotherhood and true goodwill with all, and animosity towards none. 
It is our intention to establish an advanced form of federalism known as Choiceocracy, or Panarchy, and will defend our Life, Property, Liberty, and conscious, with Satyahgraha or Duragraha peaceful resistance and direct action.
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: tracysaboe on May 16, 2009, 01:02 AM NHFT
That's a great right up.

Tracy
Title: Re: If pushed enough by the fed, like Montana, would NH secede from the union?
Post by: BillKauffman on May 16, 2009, 07:02 AM NHFT
That's a great right up.

Tracy

Yes, write up your alley.