And boy did I get a hard time.
It started with the secretaries-- they gave me an attitude for asking some questions (politely, I might add; I wasn't there to cause a scene), and they eventually directed me to the officers that were there to ask some questions.
Till then, my questions had been limited to "The RSA [which is on the back of the application] doesn't state that I need to give you my employment information-- is there any way you could void this section right now? [a legitimate question when dealing with paperwork]" The officer responded, and if I might editorialize, must have thought I was a dumbass; he said "if you don't give us your information on your employer, we can't do a background check on you". I replied pretty quickly with "Actually, you have my social security number-- which is all you need for a background check. And if you need to find my employer that badly, I'm sure the records are there." He followed this with "well, we will deny you if you don't give us your employer information".
I thought about this for a moment, and he looked at me with those beady little eyes of his, and I said something that felt so good-- "Then I'll see you in court, if that is the case." I think he was becoming aware that he couldn't just push me around, and said "just hand it in to the secretaries and they'll take care of it."
I went back the the secretaries, and handed them the form. The secretary said "You'll get a response in a few weeks--" and I cut her off and I said "You mean ten business days, right?" She got huffy and said "No, when you get it, you'll get it." She gave me a card and circled a number on it to call, and I took it and asked (politely again, because I would have liked her to comply) "Can you just initial and date this, for my own records? I don't get a receipt it seems, and I would very much like this just for myself"
Needless to say, this didn't go over well, and I got the whole "I don't need to do anything for you". So I just said "Ok, have a lovely day", and walked out.
I tell ya, I almost forgot how miserable it was to jump through hoops.
Wow, where are you? I wouldn't give them my SSN or employer. I don't even recall NH asking for that on their application.
I could work for three employers and I would still put 'self employed' on most applications.
The woman behind the glass at the Keene Taj ma Hall (sp?) seemed rather surly when I got mine.
I don't recall if there where employer questions.
I filled mine out months ago, but, keep forgetting to give it to the Chief of Police. I'm gonna ask Merle if he will agree to give a half hour head start if there is a warrant out for me.
nice job Jesse, I think it pays to be kind without backing down.
Which form did you get?
I didn't give my SSN in Concord, and I put 'student' for my employment 2 yrs ago when I got mine.
On this form:
http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/documents/dssp85.pdf
It says 'optional'. Did Keene PD delete the 'optional'?
If they take more than 10 business days, call Pro-Gun NH or Gun Owners of NH. Whenever there's a problem and either of those guys get involved, the police tend to suddenly become apologetic and hand-deliver the CCL the next day.
I got hardly a second glance at the Manchester PD when I applied. I didn't show up right on time (10 days), but mine was ready when I went back for it.
Maybe bring some company when you return?
Could be worse. In every other state (except maybe one other), you have to be fingerprinted for a CCW permit.
The people at the Peterborough Police Station were super nice. I got mine after 3 days wait. Someone called me when it was ready, I showed up later that day, paid, and walked out with my CCL.
Quote from: MengerFan on November 18, 2008, 10:35 PM NHFT
Could be worse. In every other state (except maybe one other), you have to be fingerprinted for a CCW permit.
Yup, 2 day class plus fingerprinting and FBI background check in AZ.
A couple of questions...
How long is a permit good for? Is it 5 years? (I had one almost 30 years ago damned if I can remember what it said)
Is a permit valid in all of NH only or can the bearer conceal carry anywhere? IE : Is there reciprocity with any other states?
Is there a "standard State form" or do different municipalities get to make up their own rules?
What are reasons a person can be refused a permit?
Why would anyone have to give a Social Security number? I thought that you didn't have to give that out
in many cases? New rules or just "because we say so" ?
The state police do their NCIS check without a SSN or employment information: Self employed. and a line through the SSN line (it says optional anyway).
You can sue them if they deny you; and THEY pay your court costs if you win.
Quote from: Free libertarian on November 19, 2008, 07:22 AM NHFT
A couple of questions...
How long is a permit good for? Is it 5 years? (I had one almost 30 years ago damned if I can remember what it said)
Is a permit valid in all of NH only or can the bearer conceal carry anywhere? IE : Is there reciprocity with any other states?
Is there a "standard State form" or do different municipalities get to make up their own rules?
What are reasons a person can be refused a permit?
Why would anyone have to give a Social Security number? I thought that you didn't have to give that out
in many cases? New rules or just "because we say so" ?
All answered here: http://pgnh.org/gunlawfaqs
SSN I believe is new to the form, I don't even remember it on mine from November 06. It should say 'optional' right on the form.
I do not believe they can REQUIRE a SSN, the law used to be that SSN's were for SS use only, and they were used for all sorts of things anyway. Due to identity theft most agencys.. DMV for example, have stopped using your SSN as an identifier.
The reason they would like your SSN is because when they run NCIC on you and someone with your DOB and name pops up with 20 wants on him, or a record that would be a disqualifier, they can make sure it is not you. If you have a common name, it happens all the time.
Principles over personalities. A concept from AA. I understand some people in here have a hatred of all things government. As someone who works for a government agency, I get crapped on all the time. I won't tolerate it, and I do take it personally and will make sure that every i is dotted, and every T is crossed in the execution of my tasks. If you come to me with something, and leave the attitude outside, I am going to bend over backwards to make sure you get what you need as soon as I can get it done.
You catch more Bees with honey than you do with vinegar.
You can dislike all things governmental and still deal with the BS in a civil way. Personally if I can piss someone off when they get in my face at work, I know I have won.
Nothing is going to do more to erode the right to open carry in NH, or the MUST ISSUE wording in the law faster than someone with an attitude problem carrying a weapon. Nobody needs to know you are carrying a gun, and nobody should. It takes away your advantage. Walk softly, carry a big gun, but hide it.
I would suggest that anyone who carries a gun, OC or CCW read Massad Ayoob's book "In the Gravest Extreme" and take it to heart.
You can disagree with someone, you can object to something, make your objections with facts and a smile, and when you prove them wrong in their actions you can smile even more.
This is a link to the only state approved resident application. http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/documents/dssp85.pdf (http://www.nh.gov/safety/divisions/nhsp/documents/dssp85.pdf)
If you are told you need to submit anything else, they are wrong.
QuoteI understand some people in here have a hatred of all things government.
QuoteI won't tolerate it, and I do take it personally and will make sure that every i is dotted, and every T is crossed in the execution of my tasks. If you come to me with something, and leave the attitude outside, I am going to bend over backwards to make sure you get what you need as soon as I can get it done.
At this time, I'll point out the causal relationship between the two.
The right to carry a firearm is indeed a RIGHT. The government putting conditions on it is an infringment upon a right. While I'm not sure WHAT government agency thing you work for you're part of the problem if you carry the mentality that you doing your JOB is somehow doing the people you deal with a favor.
The people in Wal-Mart aren't doing somebody a favor, they're doing them a SERVICE. Get pissy with me (the customer) and make my shopping difficult and I'll go elsewhere. When you (as a bureaucrat) get pissy with me KNOWING I can't simply go to a competing service because of that violence-backed monopoly you inspire RAGE and HATRED, not respect.
Quote from: neggy on November 19, 2008, 10:32 AM NHFT
I do not believe they can REQUIRE a SSN, the law used to be that SSN's were for SS use only, and they were used for all sorts of things anyway. Due to identity theft most agencys.. DMV for example, have stopped using your SSN as an identifier.
DMV uses it to identify "deadbeat dads" in accordance with federal "carrot-and-stick" legislation.
Quote from: neggy on November 19, 2008, 10:32 AM NHFT
Principles over personalities.
Yes. The principle that gun ownership and carry is a right, defined by the right to life. I have a right to life so then I also have a right to defend that life, with whatever means necessary. The government cannot give me that right nor remove that right, even if the 2nbd amendment was not there.
These days though, the principle of defending my life is overridden by the personality of statists who have decided that I have no need to defend my life because they think I will automatically become a raving lunatic when I get a gun in my hand.
Link to the "Application for a Resident Pistol/Revolver License" at the City of Keene website
http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/police/docs.htm (http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/police/docs.htm)
Notice the link to the "Application for Keene, NH Bicycle Registration"
What a joke !
Quote from: COG on November 19, 2008, 08:16 PM NHFT
Notice the link to the "Application for Keene, NH Bicycle Registration"
What a joke !
Bike registration helps them confirm the finding of a stolen bike. Wish it wasn't "on the books" as mandatory, though Keene Police do not enforce it.
It's fourteen days according to RSA 159:6 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htm), not ten business days.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on November 19, 2008, 04:25 PM NHFT
Yes. The principle that gun ownership and carry is a right, defined by the right to life. I have a right to life so then I also have a right to defend that life, with whatever means necessary. The government cannot give me that right nor remove that right, even if the 2nbd amendment was not there.
These days though, the principle of defending my life is overridden by the personality of statists who have decided that I have no need to defend my life because they think I will automatically become a raving lunatic when I get a gun in my hand.
There's no such thing as a right to life. That would imply things like a "right" to food, water, health care, &c.. Did you mean the right of self-ownership?
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on November 20, 2008, 05:24 PM NHFT
It's fourteen days according to RSA 159:6 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htm), not ten business days.
Here's where I heard that, Concord PD says on its site that "The permit must be picked up in person upon notification of issuance, which takes approximately 10 business days."
http://www.onconcord.com/Police/concordv2.asp?siteindx=P20,27
It also calls the license a 'permit' while there is no such thing under NH law, which I know has been brought to there attention but they never bothered to change.
Quote from: Giggan on November 20, 2008, 08:20 PM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on November 20, 2008, 05:24 PM NHFT
It's fourteen days according to RSA 159:6 (http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XII/159/159-6.htm), not ten business days.
Here's where I heard that, Concord PD says on its site that "The permit must be picked up in person upon notification of issuance, which takes approximately 10 business days."
http://www.onconcord.com/Police/concordv2.asp?siteindx=P20,27
Probably simply that specific police department's own implementation of the actual statute. Ten
business days probably works better for their bean-counters, and is always less than or equal to the fourteen
days the statute allows for.
Quote from: Giggan on November 20, 2008, 08:20 PM NHFT
It also calls the license a 'permit' while there is no such thing under NH law, which I know has been brought to there attention but they never bothered to change.
Idiots.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on November 20, 2008, 05:25 PM NHFT
There's no such thing as a right to life. That would imply things like a "right" to food, water, health care, &c..
Hmmm. Imagine that.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on November 20, 2008, 05:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: Pat McCotter on November 19, 2008, 04:25 PM NHFT
Yes. The principle that gun ownership and carry is a right, defined by the right to life. I have a right to life so then I also have a right to defend that life, with whatever means necessary. The government cannot give me that right nor remove that right, even if the 2nbd amendment was not there.
These days though, the principle of defending my life is overridden by the personality of statists who have decided that I have no need to defend my life because they think I will automatically become a raving lunatic when I get a gun in my hand.
There's no such thing as a right to life. That would imply things like a "right" to food, water, health care, &c.. Did you mean the right of self-ownership?
I have a right to life; therefore I have a right to act to prolong that life.
That being said; others have the same right; therefore I do not have the right to interfere in their right to life; unless they interfere in mine.
Quote from: Caleb on November 20, 2008, 08:40 PM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on November 20, 2008, 05:25 PM NHFT
There's no such thing as a right to life. That would imply things like a "right" to food, water, health care, &c..
Hmmm. Imagine that.
Vote for Obama, Caleb?
No :)
Quote from: William on November 19, 2008, 12:38 AM NHFT
Quote from: MengerFan on November 18, 2008, 10:35 PM NHFT
Could be worse. In every other state (except maybe one other), you have to be fingerprinted for a CCW permit.
Yup, 2 day class plus fingerprinting and FBI background check in AZ.
Same in TN except it has takes 2-3 months to get and the total cost is around $150. Oh, and than you can hardly use it anywhere...
Anyway, I agree with Lloyd. If something asks about employment, I tend to write self, which is true.