New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => Voluntaryism/Anarchism => Topic started by: Ryan McGuire on December 18, 2008, 08:16 PM NHFT

Title: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: Ryan McGuire on December 18, 2008, 08:16 PM NHFT
Did you know that the federal government has an easy to read website where they actually explain the law to you in plain English stating how you can be "rendered stateless and, thus, lack the protection of any government?"

I was surprised! (http://is.gd/cqAg) (don't worry, this link has the referrer removed)

I personally feel that it would be pretty stupid to renounce "your" US citizenship. For one, you'd have to get a visa in order to legally come back into the US (you have to leave to renounce in the first place), and second of all I don't think its even a very principled thing to do -- as far as I'm concerned it's their citizenship, not mine. The burden of proof that I'm a member of their not-so-little "protection club" is theirs, not mine. I'll just continue living my peaceful, autarchic life :punk: myself thank you very much.

I was just surprised that they made a bulleted list showing precisely how to do it.... almost.. as if they wanted people to do it.
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: Free libertarian on December 18, 2008, 08:30 PM NHFT
I'd like diplomatic immunity....I'm from another planet, does that count? 
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: doobie on December 18, 2008, 08:56 PM NHFT
Quote
A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of renunciation. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.

Quote
Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information).

MMM, yeah....  "You can't retrain any privileges, but we retain the privileges to tax you."
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: AntonLee on December 18, 2008, 10:51 PM NHFT
. . . .and to send you to die
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 19, 2008, 11:18 AM NHFT
Quote
A person who wants to renounce U.S. citizenship cannot decide to retain some of the privileges of citizenship, as this would be logically inconsistent with the concept of renunciation. Thus, such a person can be said to lack a full understanding of renouncing citizenship and/or lack the necessary intent to renounce citizenship, and the Department of State will not approve a loss of citizenship in such instances.

Quote
Also, persons who wish to renounce U.S. citizenship should also be aware that the fact that a person has renounced U.S. citizenship may have no effect whatsoever on his or her U.S. tax or military service obligations (contact the Internal Revenue Service or U.S. Selective Service for more information).

MMM, yeah....  "You can't retrain any privileges, but we retain the privileges to tax you."
Most countries tax residents regardless of citizenship... and tax revenues derived in their territory regardless of residential status.
Not much different than Mass or Maine currently do.
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on December 22, 2008, 04:51 AM NHFT
If you renounce your citizenship, you can’t buy firearms from an FFL anymore. There’s a question on the ATF form about it.
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on December 22, 2008, 06:45 AM NHFT
Yeah, you might have to lie about that :P
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: doobie on December 22, 2008, 07:06 AM NHFT
If you renounce your citizenship, you can’t buy firearms from an FFL anymore. There’s a question on the ATF form about it.

But are your previously legally owned firearms now illegal for you to posses?
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on December 22, 2008, 07:10 AM NHFT
You won't care.  You'll be too busy trying to get a 'Green Card'
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: Russell Kanning on December 22, 2008, 07:34 AM NHFT
i might do it ... but I would have to go to another place to start the process
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on December 22, 2008, 07:49 AM NHFT
If you renounce your citizenship, you can’t buy firearms from an FFL anymore. There’s a question on the ATF form about it.

But are your previously legally owned firearms now illegal for you to posses?

No idea. I just know what it asks on the ATF form.
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: KBCraig on December 22, 2008, 12:01 PM NHFT
If you renounce your citizenship, you can’t buy firearms from an FFL anymore. There’s a question on the ATF form about it.

But are your previously legally owned firearms now illegal for you to posses?

Yes, because you wouldn't be a legal U.S. resident.
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: John Edward Mercier on December 22, 2008, 01:04 PM NHFT
Not sure. You would no longer be a US citizen, but would/could still be a US resident.
Title: Re: Renunciation of U.S. Citizenship
Post by: EthanLeeVita on December 22, 2008, 10:44 PM NHFT
www.nostate.com (http://www.nostate.com)