New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => Voluntary Schooling => Topic started by: Vitruvian on April 09, 2009, 02:55 PM NHFT

Title: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Vitruvian on April 09, 2009, 02:55 PM NHFT
In remembering the books I read when I was younger, I began to notice that many of them were strongly anti-authoritarian.  At the time I first read them, I did not perceive that message explicitly: because of my youth and inexperience, I had not yet framed the question of "liberty versus authority."  I cannot help but think, however, that these authors and their books were together a major factor in nudging me toward a libertarian mindset.

The books I can remember:

The Giver (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Giver), by Lois Lowry
Number the Stars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Number_the_stars), by Lois Lowry
His Dark Materials (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/His_dark_materials), trilogy by Philip Pullman
Jayhawker (http://www.amazon.com/Jayhawker-Patricia-Beatty/dp/0688144225/ref=ed_oe_p), by Patricia Beatty
Johnny Tremain (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johnny_Tremain), by Esther Forbes
Danny, the Champion of the World (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danny,_the_Champion_of_the_World), by Roald Dahl
Little House on the Prairie (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Little_House_On_The_Prairie), by Laura Ingalls Wilder
Roll of Thunder, Hear My Cry (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roll_of_Thunder,_Hear_My_Cry), by Mildred D. Taylor

Does anyone know of others?
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: AntonLee on April 09, 2009, 03:17 PM NHFT
no but I want to write/draw one for young children
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: KBCraig on April 09, 2009, 04:38 PM NHFT
There was one posted on the Underground some time back (couple of years or more), but I can't remember the title.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: dalebert on April 09, 2009, 05:46 PM NHFT
Harry Potter and the Order of the Phoenix and the rest of the Harry Potter books to some extent. More on that here (http://www.hazlitt.org/bookofthemonth/harrypotter.html).
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Kat Kanning on April 09, 2009, 06:33 PM NHFT
Princess Navina Visits Voluntaria
the Uncle Eric books
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Kat Kanning on April 09, 2009, 06:34 PM NHFT
Heinlein's juvenile books.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Sam A. Robrin on April 09, 2009, 08:47 PM NHFT
Daniel Pinkwater's The Big Orange Splot.  And quite a few others by him.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Vitruvian on April 09, 2009, 09:08 PM NHFT
The books mentioned so far seem to be fairly new (with the exception of Heinlein).  What books, if any, might have influenced your younger self?
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: AntonLee on April 09, 2009, 10:00 PM NHFT
James and the Giant Peach and the Communist Manifesto.

what a long strange trip its been
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Moebius Tripp on April 10, 2009, 12:43 AM NHFT
HDT was a big influence on my early childhood.  :-\  Ok, so I am a geek that gets mistaken for a biker.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: freeman4liberty on April 10, 2009, 08:54 AM NHFT
I read "The butter battle" (Dr. Seuss) as an adult and as a kid. 

When I read it as an adult I was blown away at the parallel between the story and the cold war.  The book wasn't really from a liberty outlook, but it was pro peace.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: dalebert on April 10, 2009, 09:52 AM NHFT
Quote from: Vitruvian on April 09, 2009, 09:08 PM NHFT
The books mentioned so far seem to be fairly new (with the exception of Heinlein).  What books, if any, might have influenced your younger self?

I did read a book in grammar school about aliens that took over the Earth and enslaved the human race but I think my libertarianism is genetic. It's that ongoing old nature vs. nurture argument. :) There was also this relatively brief period in my young adulthood during which some weirdo tried to take advantage of me and convince me I was an angel so he could have sex with me. He didn't get far and I think I've had a finely-tuned bullshit sensor ever since. Come to think of it, my bullshit sensor must not have been too bad at the time since he didn't get very far. It was the second time someone was trying to convince me of something that seemed to be in direct contradiction to actual reality. The first time was my church. Later, I discovered that guy had a little harem of young confused and conflicted men living with him in a big house in Florida. Based on the kinds of B.S. he tried feeding me, I suspect he was doing a good job of keeping them confused and conflicted.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: freeman4liberty on April 10, 2009, 05:46 PM NHFT
Hey me too.  I think I have a predisposition to be skeptical, and against authority. 
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: EthanLeeVita on May 21, 2009, 09:47 AM NHFT
A long slow evolution with many varied perspectives as a child, but I did read The Giver and Johnny Tremain. I read, and still love, the Kent Family Chronicles. Massive books larger than any pathetic Harry Potter. :P And much more educational. (Sorry, HP was just never my thing) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kent_Family_Chronicles

I really recommend them. I think a large part of my evolution was just being raised independently since I often had to take care of myself as a kid.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Kat Kanning on May 21, 2009, 10:03 AM NHFT
Quote from: EthanLeeVita on May 21, 2009, 09:47 AM NHFT
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Kent_Family_Chronicles

Oh, I read a bunch of those when I was in high school.  Good books!  Hadn't thought about that in many years.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: EthanLeeVita on May 21, 2009, 10:14 AM NHFT
I read them twice through. I think I'll reread them when I get home. I learned a lot about history from them. I really wish they had kept going past 1900. :'( I just discovered there were movies done for a couple in late 70's. :) I might have to find those somehow...
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: jerryswife on May 23, 2009, 10:09 AM NHFT
Help. please.  My nephew's birthday party is Monday (Memorial Day) and as usual I am shopping at the last minute.  I think he is going to be 4 (maybe 5,we don't see him a lot).  Can anyone suggest a couple of libertarian leaning books that would be appropriate for his age and available at the big bookstores??

Thanks!!
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: toowm on May 23, 2009, 11:38 AM NHFT
Quote from: jerryswife on May 23, 2009, 10:09 AM NHFT
Help. please.  My nephew's birthday party is Monday (Memorial Day) and as usual I am shopping at the last minute.  I think he is going to be 4 (maybe 5,we don't see him a lot).  Can anyone suggest a couple of libertarian leaning books that would be appropriate for his age and available at the big bookstores??

I'd say Dr. Seuss - Horton Hears a Who. Or Horton Hatches the Egg, which isn't a movie.

***
For me, Heinlein was key, although The Moon is a Harsh Mistress did more than the juveniles (I've got them all now, even The Rolling Stones, if anyone wants to borrow one). Also the Tripods series (The White Mountains, The City of Gold and Lead, and The Pool of Fire) by John Christopher, The Three Investigators, Prydain (sp?) series by Lloyd Alexander.

Although I didn't read it 'til I was an adult, Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card is great and my kids loved it. Kids really connect with the message that they're treated as sub-human, but truly can accomplish anything (sometimes more) than adults.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Sam A. Robrin on May 23, 2009, 08:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: toowm on May 23, 2009, 11:38 AM NHFT
Or Horton Hatches the Egg, which isn't a movie.

Actually, there was a short cartoon made of that one ca. 1940-50.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: SethCohn on May 25, 2009, 10:56 AM NHFT
For young adults and adults of all ages:

Little Brother
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=14212.0

Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: David on June 08, 2009, 09:10 AM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on April 09, 2009, 06:33 PM NHFT
Princess Navina Visits Voluntaria
the Uncle Eric books
I'd second the uncle eric books.  They are specifically marketed for high school age homeschoolers.  The book Whatever happened to Justice did more to convert me to libertarianism than any other single book.  I was prolly 11 or 12 when I first read it. 
http://freekeene.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/03/david.jpg
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Raineyrocks on August 03, 2009, 09:28 AM NHFT
Lies My Teacher Told Me;  Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, by James W. Loewen


Here's one of the paragraphs I like from this book:

By downplaying covert and illegal acts by the government, textbook authors narcotize students from thinking about such issues as the increasing dominance of the executive branch.  By taking the government's side, textbooks encourage students to conclude that criticism is incompatible with citizenship.And by presenting government actions in a vacuum, rather than  as responses to such institutions as multinational corporations and civil rights organizations, textbooks mystify the creative tension between the people and their leaders.  All this encourages students to throw up their hands in the belief that the government determines everything anyway, so why bother, expecially if its actions are usually so benign.  Thus our American history textbooks minimize the potential power of the people and despite their best patriotic efforts, take a stance that is overtly antidemocratic.

Pg. 231, Lies My Teacher Told Me, by James W. Loewen
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: liftsboxes on August 03, 2009, 01:57 PM NHFT
There are versions of this book for children, as well as for adults, but The Last of the Mohicans is a good one.

I enjoyed Johnny Tremain as a child.

Dune is a good example of revolution and re-enslavement.

The Harry Potter series (HT: Dale), The Hobbit, and The Phantom Tollbooth are also good choices.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: KBCraig on August 04, 2009, 03:41 AM NHFT
Quote from: raineyrocks on August 03, 2009, 09:28 AM NHFT
Lies My Teacher Told Me;  Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, by James W. Loewen

I've never bought Loewen's books, but I've always appreciated various excerpts that I've read.

Watching this video (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mEXQ7TMRW0K9P) from the Amazon page makes me reconsider. He declares a private property owner defending his private property in 1861 to be a "murderer", and that those who killed him in response were justified.

That's just one datum point, and perhaps it's unfair to judge Loewen based on that, but it indicates a significantly different worldview than mine. It's so different from my view of private property, that Mr. Loewen would have to take serious steps to overcome my skepticism about his work.

And in any case, that's a relatively obscure incident, hardly one of the "lies my teacher told me". If anything, the teachers wouldn't portray Jackson as a hero at all, because they taught the U.S. point of view, not the secessionist.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Raineyrocks on August 04, 2009, 01:52 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on August 04, 2009, 03:41 AM NHFT
Quote from: raineyrocks on August 03, 2009, 09:28 AM NHFT
Lies My Teacher Told Me;  Everything Your American History Textbook Got Wrong, by James W. Loewen

I've never bought Loewen's books, but I've always appreciated various excerpts that I've read.

Watching this video (http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mEXQ7TMRW0K9P) from the Amazon page makes me reconsider. He declares a private property owner defending his private property in 1861 to be a "murderer", and that those who killed him in response were justified.

That's just one datum point, and perhaps it's unfair to judge Loewen based on that, but it indicates a significantly different worldview than mine. It's so different from my view of private property, that Mr. Loewen would have to take serious steps to overcome my skepticism about his work.

And in any case, that's a relatively obscure incident, hardly one of the "lies my teacher told me". If anything, the teachers wouldn't portray Jackson as a hero at all, because they taught the U.S. point of view, not the secessionist.


Wow, what a jerk!  Not you, Mr. Loewen.  I still like the book though but I've just lost my respect for the author.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Libertine on October 25, 2009, 08:52 AM NHFT
http://www.justaplant.com/
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Raineyrocks on October 25, 2009, 02:47 PM NHFT
Quote from: Libertine on October 25, 2009, 08:52 AM NHFT
http://www.justaplant.com/

Hi Libertine!   How's it going?

I must get your karma going!  ;D
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Trillian on May 26, 2010, 03:26 PM NHFT
I know this is an older thread, but was wondering if anyone else had ran into more books with libertarian ideas. Most of the earlier books mentioned seem more for older children, and teens.  I know there's a book plugged on FTL entitled An Island Called Liberty , I wondered if anyone has read that. It's not available at our library right now, but would buy it if someone thought it was worth it.   
   I tried doing a general search through the library catalog while I was there, but nothing except things about 4th of July really seemed to come up in the children literature.
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: Libertango on June 17, 2010, 10:10 AM NHFT
I think I've read about half of the books listed in this thread, but there were a few others that came to mind immediately. 

Swiss Family Robinson
Robinson Crusoe
Boxcar Children Series

All three of these are about self-sufficiency, and how people can get along without government. 

The Encyclopedia Brown mystery book series, and the Hardy Boys series were really interesting.  Private detective agency, and two brothers which were effective at solving crimes, and if I recall correctly the police were generally inept in these series.

-Libertango

-Libertango
Title: Re: "Children's" books against authority
Post by: HomeNow on December 07, 2010, 02:48 AM NHFT
Pippi! And she has gold!