New Hampshire Underground

Regional Discussion => Seacoast => Topic started by: Recumbent ReCycler on May 19, 2009, 10:08 PM NHFT

Title: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on May 19, 2009, 10:08 PM NHFT
Some of you know that my guns were taken by the police last year when I was served with an ex parte order of protection, which was dismissed by a judge when I finally got a hearing about 5 months later.  Unfortunately I was unable to get the police to return any of my property, and earlier this year an officer charged me with receiving stolen property.  He claimed that some of my pistol frames were reported stolen.  After I got discovery, I learned that there had never been any report claiming that my frames or any frames matching their description were stolen until after the police took my firearms and the officer got someone to look at photos of my frames and write a statement suggesting that my frames had been stolen from them.  I can and will prove that the officer falsified reports, lied under oath, etc., and that I am not guilty of the charges against me, and that I acquired my pistol frames lawfully, etc.  I cannot disclose any significant information prior to the trial, but I would like to invite my friends to observe the trial, and if possible, record the trial.  It will be at the Dover District Court September 24th at 9am.  This is not the first time that officer has lied to me, lied in a report or encouraged someone to report false information.  I cannot go into a great deal of detail before the trial, but the truth will come out at trial.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: tony on May 19, 2009, 11:12 PM NHFT
Wander how these criminal minded beaurocrats will connect  your 1911/A1 frame with anything of whoever's production.
Contact Ivy and do not let beaurocrats' perfect screw up go unused. Litigate in retaliation.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 03, 2009, 10:32 AM NHFT
(http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/recumbentrecycler/other%20stuff/RSPp41.jpg)
Here are the police photos of the frames that they took from me and are claiming were stolen from SigSauer.  Under reciprocal discovery rules, the Somersworth Police Department was given a report that included a statement from Richard Celata of KT Ordnance stating that I had purchased the unfinished frames from him and that I machined them at his shop.  Despite this statement, the Somersworth Police Department has indicated that they still intend to continue with the prosecution. 
http://www.ktordnance.com/kto/index.php (http://www.ktordnance.com/kto/index.php)
The two frames that I purchased in 2004 were marketed from his website, as seen here: http://web.archive.org/web/20040213072349/www.ktordnance.com/kto/products.php (http://web.archive.org/web/20040213072349/www.ktordnance.com/kto/products.php)
The ones I bought were the KT-1911 and KT-228
The police are claiming that the frames are a SigSauer GSR 1911 and a SigSauer P229
(http://shop.oragie.com/images/gsr-nitron.jpg)
(http://world.guns.ru/handguns/sigsauer_p229-1.jpg)
As you can see, the frames that the police took from me look like the ones on the KT Ordnance web site, and not like SigSauer products.  There are some other significant differences that are not obvious from the photos because they only show side shots of the frames.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: TackleTheWorld on June 03, 2009, 12:06 PM NHFT
It's a hunk of metal.
Why do they steal your property?
And your time?
and make you show up at their rituals?
For owning a frackin hunk of metal?
Aaaarghhh!

Objects are not crimes, the actions of people are the only things that can be crimes.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Russell Kanning on June 03, 2009, 12:40 PM NHFT
a cop lied?

isn't that their job?
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 03, 2009, 12:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on June 03, 2009, 12:40 PM NHFT
a cop lied?

isn't that their job?
It seems like they believe that it is.  :(
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: doobie on June 03, 2009, 02:26 PM NHFT
Wait til they connect your frames to unsolved shootings!
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 03, 2009, 02:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: doobie on June 03, 2009, 02:26 PM NHFT
Wait til they connect your frames to unsolved shootings!
Hehe, the way they've been making stuff up, I wouldn't put it past them to try something like that.  I haven't even finished the 1911 to the point where it can be completely assembled without doing some more machine work.  The KT-228 needs some work still before it'll be ready to fire, and I haven't acquired all the parts yet.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: KBCraig on June 03, 2009, 05:15 PM NHFT
So, aside from the fact that they're obviously not SIG products, they also don't have serial numbers. How can they claim they were stolen from SIG, without numbers?

And out of curiosity, what does the SIG factory say about it? Are they even a party to this case?
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: doobie on June 03, 2009, 08:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on June 03, 2009, 05:15 PM NHFT
So, aside from the fact that they're obviously not SIG products, they also don't have serial numbers. How can they claim they were stolen from SIG, without numbers?

And out of curiosity, what does the SIG factory say about it? Are they even a party to this case?

Where does it say that they were stolen from SIG unless I misread it sounded like they were 'stolen' from another person.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: KBCraig on June 03, 2009, 09:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: doobie on June 03, 2009, 08:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on June 03, 2009, 05:15 PM NHFT
So, aside from the fact that they're obviously not SIG products, they also don't have serial numbers. How can they claim they were stolen from SIG, without numbers?

And out of curiosity, what does the SIG factory say about it? Are they even a party to this case?

Where does it say that they were stolen from SIG unless I misread it sounded like they were 'stolen' from another person.

Here:
Quote from: Recumbent ReCycler on June 03, 2009, 10:32 AM NHFT

Here are the police photos of the frames that they took from me and are claiming were stolen from SigSauer.


Since SIG doesn't sell incomplete receivers, if the police are claiming they are SIGs, then they must have been "stolen" from SIG at some point. (Of course, they're not SIGs at all, so they weren't.)
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: doobie on June 03, 2009, 09:44 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on June 03, 2009, 09:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: doobie on June 03, 2009, 08:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on June 03, 2009, 05:15 PM NHFT
So, aside from the fact that they're obviously not SIG products, they also don't have serial numbers. How can they claim they were stolen from SIG, without numbers?

And out of curiosity, what does the SIG factory say about it? Are they even a party to this case?

Where does it say that they were stolen from SIG unless I misread it sounded like they were 'stolen' from another person.

Here:
Quote from: Recumbent ReCycler on June 03, 2009, 10:32 AM NHFT

Here are the police photos of the frames that they took from me and are claiming were stolen from SigSauer.


Since SIG doesn't sell incomplete receivers, if the police are claiming they are SIGs, then they must have been "stolen" from SIG at some point. (Of course, they're not SIGs at all, so they weren't.)


Somehow missed that.... saw the original thread:
QuoteAfter I got discovery, I learned that there had never been any report claiming that my frames or any frames matching their description were stolen until after the police took my firearms and the officer got someone to look at photos of my frames and write a statement suggesting that my frames had been stolen from them.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 05, 2009, 07:36 PM NHFT
Here are some of the documents I got from the SPD about a month after requesting discovery.  The officer made some statements that are not true in his report, but I'm assuming that he didn't record me when they were at my house, and was basing his report in part on an imperfect memory.  The lawyer who wrote this letter (apparently at the request of the Somersworth PD) obviously is not familiar with the designs and manufacturing methods used at their factory and/or is dishonest.
(http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/recumbentrecycler/other%20stuff/RSPp37.jpg)
(http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/recumbentrecycler/other%20stuff/RSPp08.jpg)
(http://i450.photobucket.com/albums/qq229/recumbentrecycler/other%20stuff/RSPp09.jpg)
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: KBCraig on June 06, 2009, 01:00 AM NHFT
To sum up: as a gunsmith you had a variety of used parts labeled with SIG stamps, but are not charged with theft over those items. You're charged with receiving stolen property for the two frames, both of which are clearly not SIG products (and I assume don't bear any SIG stamps).

A tragic comedy of errors.  >:(
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on June 06, 2009, 07:21 AM NHFT
The letter claims the frames belong to Sig
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 06, 2009, 08:19 AM NHFT
The man who wrote the letter ass-u-me-d that they were SIG products and wrote that he would consider them stolen.  Of course they have no record of ever making or having frames that were made like that and had never reported any frames like that as having been stolen.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on June 06, 2009, 08:37 AM NHFT
He didn't say they weren't Sigs
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 06, 2009, 08:54 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 06, 2009, 08:37 AM NHFT
He didn't say they weren't Sigs
But if they were stolen from SigSauer, then they would either have to have been made there or they would have to have serial numbers.  Manufacturers, just like everyone else, aren't allowed to transfer firearms without serial numbers.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: bigmike on June 06, 2009, 11:07 AM NHFT
I have a hard time believing a jury would be able to find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.

I'm not sure what you call that protrusion on the frame's handle that would appear to separate your middle finger from your ring finger and pinkie, but it's pretty clear they're not the same frames as the Sig frames they are claiming them to be.

Did Sig ever make a frame with that same feature on the handle? If not, you're in the clear. If they did, were they made around the same time you worked there or would there be any the property at that time?

In discovery did you ask Sig for copies of any police reports made around the time you worked there regarding any stolen property? Now that this attorney drafted this letter for Sig, have they done an inventory that revealed any missing parts from the factory that would verify they may in fact be from there?

It seems to me a firearm manufacturer would have pretty stringent inventory procedures and, depending on what was found to be unaccounted for, there may even be federal regulations as to how that is to be reported.

Are you planning to call the gunsmith you purchased the frames from as a witness? Are there receipts of your purchase?

I think with an affidavit from the gunsmith and a few properly worded motions you could have had this tossed without having a trial. Is this the pretrial exam or the trial itself coming up?



Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: KBCraig on June 06, 2009, 12:32 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 06, 2009, 07:21 AM NHFT
The letter claims the frames belong to Sig

Except they don't. SIG never made such frames. KT Ordnance did, and sold them to Tim.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 06, 2009, 01:03 PM NHFT
SigSauer never made frames like those as part of their product line, and I doubt they ever made anything like that in their custom shop.  Also, if you go to the KT Ordnance website and read about his manufacturing process, it is very evident on the 1911 frame that it was made with the process that KT Ordnance uses.  SigSauer makes their frames on much more expensive machines, and each one is made from one piece of metal.  KT Ordnance makes his KT-1911 and made his KT-228 frames from 2 halves which are then permanently attached.  Close examination should reveal that the KT-228 frame was made from 2 halves.  A mere glance would reveal that the KT-1911 has a seam where the 2 halves are brazed together.  SigSauer never made pistol frames from 2 halves and brazed them together because with their equipment they don't need to.  Check out the links I put in my first post on this thread to get the whole story.  I never got a receipt for the unfinished frames, but Mr. Celata gave a statement to an investigator indicating that he did in fact sell them to me in 2004 and that I then machined them at his shop with his equipment.  The prosecutor said he wants to cross-examine Mr. Celata, who lives in Montana now.  I believe that the cops are being vindictive because I had filed complaints against them in the past with the State Attorney General's office and the City Manager after I discovered that they were blatantly violating the law and the chief told me that he didn't care what the law said and that he expected me to follow his rules, which he made up as it suited him.  Earlier this year I discovered that they were still blatantly violating the law, but I didn't do anything about it this time because nobody will hold them accountable for what they do, and complaining will only result in more unwanted attention on me.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: bigmike on June 06, 2009, 03:15 PM NHFT
You should have received a list of witnesses they want to call against you, is Mr. Celeta on that list? I can't believe they'll subpoena him from Montana but you never know ::) Hopefully Shawver is there, I'd love to cross examine that guy.

Sorry I didn't start paying attention to this thread until recently, Tim. There's not enough time to send any interrogatories or request for admissions (unless you have already).

I am working on some questions for you that you may want to ask when you have the opportunity to cross examine. You should have my contact info. They'll be ready tomorrow.




Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 08, 2009, 04:47 PM NHFT
The trial is going to be postponed.  I don't know the date yet, but it will probably be in August.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on June 08, 2009, 05:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on June 06, 2009, 12:32 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 06, 2009, 07:21 AM NHFT
The letter claims the frames belong to Sig

Except they don't. SIG never made such frames. KT Ordnance did, and sold them to Tim.

I'm just saying that the letter doesn't seem to help his case.  It might be useful in a lawsuit though. Lawyers got money.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on June 08, 2009, 05:25 PM NHFT
Of course the letter doesn't help my case.  It was written at the request of the Somersworth PD.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on September 18, 2009, 10:30 AM NHFT
Sorry I forgot to update this post.  The trial is scheduled for September 24th at 9am at the Dover District Court.  I just got a call from my lawyer.  The cops offered to drop the charges if they can keep my pistol frames.  I told him that didn't sound like a good deal at all because I want my son to eventually get those frames.  So as of right now, the trial is still on, and I would like to see friends there.  Plans may change if the police make an offer I can't refuse or if they just drop the charges and return my property.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: bigmike on September 18, 2009, 12:47 PM NHFT
My how nice of them ::) It's too bad the cops won't get sanctioned by the court for wasting time on such a weak case. This could likely have been dismissed with a good "fraud on the court" argument early on.

I'll likely make it if I can catch a ride.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: doobie on September 18, 2009, 04:23 PM NHFT
I'm sure they are made that you didn't just roll over and let them keep the frames. Poor them.  I hope you screw them over big time.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on September 18, 2009, 05:19 PM NHFT
I'm considering a possible lawsuit against the officers and Sig employees who made false statements and filed false charges in this case, but I think I would need a lawyer who would be willing to work for a % of the award.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 18, 2009, 08:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: Recumbent ReCycler on September 18, 2009, 05:19 PM NHFT
I'm considering a possible lawsuit against the officers and Sig employees who made false statements and filed false charges in this case, but I think I would need a lawyer who would be willing to work for a % of the award.

Sig is responsible for what their employees do.
If Sig was made to hurt, non of their employees would perpetrate this crime on anyone again.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: bigmike on September 19, 2009, 11:39 AM NHFT
Quote from: Recumbent ReCycler on September 18, 2009, 05:19 PM NHFT
I'm considering a possible lawsuit against the officers and Sig employees who made false statements and filed false charges in this case, but I think I would need a lawyer who would be willing to work for a % of the award.

I can let you read through the Jurisdictionary course. Filing a lawsuit yourself isn't that complex.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 11, 2009, 11:40 AM NHFT
Here's the latest update:
My lawyer filed a motion to dismiss, something about me being entitled to be able to use all evidence in my favor, which the prosecution is objecting to.  We're hoping that the outcome of that hearing will be either a dismissal of the charges or the admission of the evidence that has not been allowed yet.  The hearing will be tomorrow, Thursday November 12th at 12:30 PM.  My lawyer said that he plans to also address the return of my other property, which he had filed a motion for a while ago but hadn't heard a response concerning it.

The court has also postponed my bench trial again and re-scheduled it for Tuesday November 24th at 10:00 AM.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: bigmike on November 11, 2009, 07:31 PM NHFT
Good luck tomorrow. What evidence are they trying to prevent you from using?
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 12, 2009, 10:05 AM NHFT
They are trying to prevent the use of testimony from the man who sold the unfinished frames to me and watched as I machined them on his milling machine.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 12, 2009, 04:06 PM NHFT
I finally got an order from the court that says that the SPD has to turn my property over to a 3rd party who will help me sell it, so there should be a decent amount of ammunition and firearms becoming available for purchase pretty soon.  I need to call the PD in the morning to schedule a time for the transfer of the property.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: AntonLee on November 12, 2009, 04:28 PM NHFT
can you sell it for a dollar to someone and then perhaps later if you change your mind you might be able to buy it back for 1.50 or something?
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 12, 2009, 04:46 PM NHFT
I'm not inclined to do that.  I trust the person who will be taking possession of my property and he will be helping me sell it.  The guns, ammo, parts, etc. is probably worth over $10,000.  Of course value is subjective.  If sold at retail, it would definitely be worth well over $10,000.  I'm planning to sell everything for well below retail.  In most cases, I'll sell stuff for below even the lower end of the market price.  I'm hoping that my stuff will be rescued from the clutches of the PD on Monday.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: doobie on November 12, 2009, 07:08 PM NHFT
Good to hear they are going to be forced to give your property back, sucks that A) you had to take them to court, B) you are going to have to sell it all. 
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: KBCraig on November 12, 2009, 08:04 PM NHFT
They still stole from you. You're having to sell it all to cover your legal bills, so in the end you still lost your stuff and got nothing in return.

>:(
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 13, 2009, 04:05 AM NHFT
Yeah, if I had it all a year ago, I would have been able to sell it at a nice profit since the market price was inflated due to supply not coming close to demand.  I also would have been able to keep up with my child support payments.  I'm hoping to catch up on my child support payments this month.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: tony on November 13, 2009, 06:41 PM NHFT
Did you finish receivers? If so you will not be able to sell self made "guns" :(
Self made firearms are nontransferable.
If there is 20% work left to finish it is not a gun but piece of cut metal and is not regulated by BATF nor it requires any special licensing.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on November 13, 2009, 06:59 PM NHFT
Living within the Law has done you sooo much good so far!
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: KBCraig on November 13, 2009, 08:33 PM NHFT
Quote from: tony on November 13, 2009, 06:41 PM NHFT
Did you finish receivers? If so you will not be able to sell self made "guns" :(
Self made firearms are nontransferable.

Not true. Someone who isn't a licensed manufacturer can't make firearms for selling, only for personal use. But those guns can be sold legally so long as the maker applies the required markings (like a serial number).

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/building_a_firearm.pdf
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on November 13, 2009, 08:35 PM NHFT
100% Bran
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 14, 2009, 03:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on November 13, 2009, 08:33 PM NHFT
Quote from: tony on November 13, 2009, 06:41 PM NHFT
Did you finish receivers? If so you will not be able to sell self made "guns" :(
Self made firearms are nontransferable.

Not true. Someone who isn't a licensed manufacturer can't make firearms for selling, only for personal use. But those guns can be sold legally so long as the maker applies the required markings (like a serial number).

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/building_a_firearm.pdf

KBCraig is correct.  Regardless, the police will not be returning the homemade frames before the 24th and I am not planning to sell them.  I want to have them given to my son when he turns 18.  I'm hoping to get the court to order the police to surrender them to  my brother, who is willing to hold onto them until then.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 27, 2009, 07:27 PM NHFT
Here's some of the video from the trial.  More to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDwUbGZI6to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfVXY52f68A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDOV-vsn8Y
I'm still waiting for a verdict.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: MTPorcupine3 on November 27, 2009, 11:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: Recumbent ReCycler on November 27, 2009, 07:27 PM NHFT
Here's some of the video from the trial.  More to come.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDwUbGZI6to
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mfVXY52f68A
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5iDOV-vsn8Y
I'm still waiting for a verdict.

I was there. It's well worth watching for the education, and for seeing what a corrupt gang the prosecution is. They've fabricated a case with circumstantial evidence that is flimsy at best, contradictory at worst. Watch the ATF hire (never asked whether he was a machinist) change his story from "The gun frame had to be made from a block," to "It could have been two halves blazed together." Gunsmith Tony could clearly see through the lies, but unfortunately was never called on to testify.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Recumbent ReCycler on November 27, 2009, 11:42 PM NHFT
Here's Officer Thomas Phelan's testimony (part 1 of 2)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kz1cass8DEk
The second half is linked as a video response and the rest of my video is attached in succession.  Phelan testified first, but I uploaded Alan Offringa's testimony first because it was obvious to me and others in the room that he was lying.  Phelan's testimony contained some relatively minor inaccuracies, but it wasn't clear to me whether he was intentionally lying or just didn't have his facts straight and his testimony seemed to be roughly neutral in its effect on the trial, especially when compared to Alan Offringa's testimony.  It appears to me that Alan Offringa is the real villain in this case.  He blatantly lied, and some of the lies I knew were lies as soon as he spoke them.  Other lies I confirmed with a former SigSauer employee later.  Alan knew of KT Ordnance, but made false claims about Richard Celata and his business, which you'll be able to hear once the better and more complete video becomes available.  There were a number of things that my lawyer didn't do like I wanted him to, but the past is the past.  The other witness that he called sadly failed and probably hurt our case rather than helped it, by inadvertently giving incorrect information.  I'm looking forward to getting the other video and will try to post the video as soon as it becomes available or ask smiley to post it.  Unfortunately the prosecution never gave me copies of all of the evidence they submitted even though I had requested discovery.  As you can hear in some of the video, they didn't want me to see some of the evidence, suggesting that my lawyer could look at it instead of me, even though I'm pretty sure that my lawyer would not have known what it was that he was looking at.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: tony on November 28, 2009, 11:11 AM NHFT
The whole trial was sad comedy. Except Tim whose skills are in my opinion equivalent of 5 years of experience as a tool maker, and BATF consultant (not employee of SIG) whose manufacturing knowledge is that of junior student in vocational school having tour over manufacturing facility during field trip, no one present was knowledgeable enough to distinguish drill from chisel.
Prosecutor witness tried to explain simple manufacturing process (wire EDM cut) for five minutes just to say that other process (very unlikely used in case of SIG) was probably applied. It would be like if you decided to walk 10 miles to the store while you have good car available. This change in testimony occurred after Tim's bringing to attention the frame was not cut from the singe block of material but from two separate pieces brazed together – CT Ordinance did not have wire EDM so process was entirely different going around technological obstruction.
Tim's lawyer did not use opportunity to grind prosecution.
Tim neglected opportunity to do homework and defend himself which probably he would do better than his lawyer. At least he could consult in his defense with those amongst us who know what they are doing in the courts.
The attitude of the whole circus was to grind Tim regardless of his gilt or innocence, but if it was exposed to everybody I doubt the court would go all the way into kangaroo court mode.
I am not knowledgeable in the laws but when we come back with Ric, some of listening to relation pointed to ton of mistakes on both sides.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: FTL_Ian on December 02, 2009, 11:39 AM NHFT
Did he get ten years over this?   :o
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Kat Kanning on December 02, 2009, 11:42 AM NHFT
No, he was accused of molesting his daughter.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: FTL_Ian on December 02, 2009, 11:53 AM NHFT
and was found guilty and put in prison for ten years?
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: FTL_Ian on December 02, 2009, 11:53 AM NHFT
Never mind.  Apparently there is a thread just beneath this one. 
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Heatman on December 30, 2009, 11:09 AM NHFT
Tim was found not guilty on these charges.  It was other charges that he got 10 years.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: KBCraig on December 30, 2009, 12:33 PM NHFT
Quote from: Heatman on December 30, 2009, 11:09 AM NHFT
Tim was found not guilty on these charges.  It was other charges that he got 10 years.

Thank you for the update.

Are you the brother we've heard about?
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Heatman on December 30, 2009, 12:42 PM NHFT
Twin brother Tom.
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: jaqeboy on December 30, 2009, 07:43 PM NHFT
This was good news to hear today for Tim! What was he facing as penalties on this one? Sorry, but I asked you a question on this one in the other thread, but here's the same question: Was there any detailed explanation of why the judge ruled this way? or did it just say "not quilty". And, to clarify, this was just before a judge, right? not a jury? I'm guessing you may not have actually seen the paperwork yet, right?
Title: Re: Police took my guns & charged me with receiving stolen property
Post by: Heatman on December 30, 2009, 10:56 PM NHFT
I don't know anything other than what I put here.  When his lawyer is back in the office on 1/4/10, I will try to call him and see if I can find out any details.