Just got word second or third hand that Ivy got arrested after being stopped at a speed trap. Location and other details unknown at this time. Stand by for further notice.
I am told she was arrested on a warrant in Rhode Island: various charges, three felonies, including welfare fraud greater than $500, false documents to public officials. Arraignment tomorrow morning at Laconia court.
What a coincidence that the day Sam is finally given a trial date they arrest Ivy. Surprise, surprise, surprise.
George
Quote from: Coconut on June 04, 2009, 09:59 PM NHFT
If she has a warrant, why wasn't she ever grabbed at the jail? or when the court checked up on her to be Sam's council?
Or even during her trial just a few months ago...
because they are bureaucrats?
NH Tea Party thread (https://www.nhteaparty.org/index.php/topic,1857.0.html). Will be keeping up to date with court dates, &c.. Porc411 call attached.
New Hampton Police — 744-5423
Belknap County Jail — 527-5480
Laconia District Court — 524-4128
Laconia District Court (http://maps.google.com/maps?q=26%20Academy%20St,%20Laconia%2C%20NH,%2003246), 26 Academy St. Laconia, NH, 03246
Quote from: Russell Kanning on June 04, 2009, 10:06 PM NHFT
because they are bureaucrats?
Ping Ping Ping(http://www.casinosnob.com/pictures/fruit-slot-gaming-machines-online.jpg)
You are correct, Russell!
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=1046.0
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=18268.0 — calendar entries
huh. Imagine that.
Not sure where Sam stand's without her help.
Anyone keeping current with their strategy? I'm sure Sam could speak for himself in court, but if he needs to draft any motions, requests for production, etc this could put him in a bind.
I'm offering to help if someone can get me up to speed.
So, allegedly Ivy ripped off the state... I could go either way on that one. Though, her help for Sam gets her off the hook in my book.
NH-CLOG story (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6) about arraignment. Watch this page for news of how the arraignment goes.
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on June 04, 2009, 10:21 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on June 04, 2009, 10:06 PM NHFT
because they are bureaucrats?
Ping Ping Ping
(http://www.casinosnob.com/pictures/fruit-slot-gaming-machines-online.jpg)
You are correct, Russell!
That's what I'm thinking :D
Quote from: Atlas on June 04, 2009, 11:27 PM NHFT
So, allegedly Ivy ripped off the state... I could go either way on that one. Though, her help for Sam gets her off the hook in my book.
so some thugs say that she filled out the paperwork wrong or stole from them ... I still oppose the thugs :)
The original story about Ivy and her troubles in RI.
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0
Here's what I know this morning.
Bill D and J'raxis are up there with Bill now. Peter is in a safe place. They are awaiting arraignment.
Tow company wants $210 to get the truck out. They are giving them a break and only charging one day, where they could charge two (yesterday and today) even though the truck came in late last night. Thieves.
More info when I find out.
Sure looks like it was setup that way.
Quote from: NJLiberty on June 04, 2009, 09:45 PM NHFT
What a coincidence that the day Sam is finally given a trial date they arrest Ivy. Surprise, surprise, surprise.
George
Thanks for the update Brian.
video up
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EcBWLfVKuAM
worth watching but only if you haven't already listened to the calls.
Porc 411 from Jeremy reports that they will hold Ivy until the Rhode Island issues are resolved. They want to extradite and have 30 days to do so.
Other than that, there are a number of NH motor vehicle infractions that she would normally be released for.
Quote from: Atlas on June 04, 2009, 11:27 PM NHFT
So, allegedly Ivy ripped off the state... I could go either way on that one. Though, her help for Sam gets her off the hook in my book.
I would like to add, I will not go into details of old drama, as those involved seem to have moved on, but in the past Ivy was accused of having a great lack of integrity. But mistakes, sometimes even intentional 'mistakes', offenses, and other things that are not consistent with the NAP, have been done by the best of us. I hope, that unless it is "proven" or that there is at least compelling evidence that Ivy has done anything particularly egregious, that she not be crucified all over again.
If she has done something egregious and hurtful to someone, then I hope she will make the situation whole to the best of her ability. If she is has done nothing hurtful to another, I hope she has the full support of those here.
If I'm not mistaken, Sam's trial is sooner than 30 days away. So if NH delays the extradition, Sam is on his own. This is obviously NOT a coincidence. Fuckers.
I'm really surprised so many people think this is (another) government conspiracy and that the reason Ivy was arrested yesterday has anything to do with Sam's case. The wheels of bureaucracy move slowly; it probably took Rhode Island this long to get its head out of its administrative ass and communicate with the PTB in New Hampshire.
If the NH authorities were feeling any heat about keeping Sam jailed this long, they'd simply let him out. It's not like anyone is even pretending he did anything dangerous or violent, or that he's a flight risk.
I totally agree with Friday. This is not conspiracy. This is not a shock. We know she had issues with all of the welfare she received in RI. Didn't we learn from Russell's arrest that bureaucracy takes forever and is never logical?
NH-CLOG article (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6) updated with a rough draft of what happened today. Will rewrite later.
Quote from: Friday on June 05, 2009, 02:15 PM NHFT
I'm really surprised so many people think this is (another) government conspiracy and that the reason Ivy was arrested yesterday has anything to do with Sam's case. The wheels of bureaucracy move slowly; it probably took Rhode Island this long to get its head out of its administrative ass and communicate with the PTB in New Hampshire.
I do think now that the conspiracy theory is overblown—the R.I. warrant stems not directly from what she's been charged with down there, but a missed court date therefor. I forget the exact date, but it was recent; a couple weeks ago or less. Court dates are scheduled far in advance, and R.I. is even more backlogged than the N.H. courts, so it had probably been scheduled before she even got involved in Sam's case.
I think when they decided to bring Sam to trial, they decided to release him. Result: guilty of whatever trumped up charge, sentence: time served. Ivy being there or not won't make any difference.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on June 05, 2009, 08:27 AM NHFT
The original story about Ivy and her troubles in RI.
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0
Thanks, McPat. Somehow I missed that whole thread. Wow.
Quote from: Friday on June 05, 2009, 03:37 PM NHFT
Quote from: Pat McCotter on June 05, 2009, 08:27 AM NHFT
The original story about Ivy and her troubles in RI.
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0
Thanks, McPat. Somehow I missed that whole thread. Wow.
Yeah, that thread was a major part of her decision to move up here. There was a parallel one over on NH Tea Party, too:—
https://www.nhteaparty.org/index.php/topic,217.0.html
And this, my post from the thread here, sure was prescient:—
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on August 06, 2007, 09:25 PM NHFT
I and others have often argued that these government-assistance programs are a way of making people dependent on the government, preventing them from seeking alternatives, such as relying on friends or family, or finding charities providing similar services. I think what's happened to this woman is a perfect example of that. ...
Ivy recently told me that the State has offered her some sort of social assistance for her kids here—which she turned down for exactly the reasons I cited above.
Quote from: Friday on June 05, 2009, 03:56 PM NHFTHeh. You clearly misinterpret my "Wow". Hey sandm000, have some more bacon, buddy! :Bacon_by_danniep:
So other than to start drama and bitch about how someone behaved nearly two years ago, what exactly was your reason for posting in this thread again? ::)
Quote from: Friday on June 05, 2009, 05:15 PM NHFT
I thought my reason was quite clear: to disagree with several previous posters stating they believe that Ivy's arrest is a government conspiracy related to Sam's arrest.
I too think there's no way the Keene government called over to Bristol to get Ivy arrested because Sam's trial is finally going through. That's just silly goose.
Bill just left a message that the cops are at their restaurant with a warrant. If anyone's not too far away, I'm sure he'd like some company.
Per recent porc411:
Ivy's restaurant is being raided now?
Odd. I wonder what connection Ivy's computer could have to receiving welfare in RI.
They're most likely hoping to find digital records of vast amounts of income to bolster a tax evasion case.
QuoteOdd. I wonder what connection Ivy's computer could have to receiving welfare in RI.
Probably that they are looking for the (nonexistent?) books of her former landscaping (? or whatever other self employment?) business that she closed before the mess that caused her to leave RI. Somewhere there's a bureaucrat who just can't believe there really are no records and they will turn everyone else's lives upside down to get what they assume she must be lying about, even if it turns out there's really no income related to it thus it didn't need to be on a tax form which therefore didn't need to be filed... golly isn't it just so incredible that someone would decline to file if they are so low income as to be below the limit?
QuoteThey're most likely hoping to find digital records of vast amounts of income to bolster a tax evasion case.
Probably not so much tax evasion as that one of the charges was welfare fraud. But they probably do hope to also sniff out some tax related stuff now that they have an excuse to snoop around based on this. Or someone may be ignoring the fact that the restaurant did not exist - and certainly is outside RI's jurisdiction even if it did - during her welfare days thus its income is not relevant to that case.
This is also an example of why we all need to be sure and keep backups of some stuff (like Bill's lost phone number lists) separate from the computer itself to prevent losses like this. Bummer Bill couldn't have said it was HIS computer rather than hers thus it was not the one described in the warrant and they shouldn't have taken it...
like Bill's lost phone number lists?
Is it customary for police to serve restraining orders or search warrants on Friday evenings? I was served on a Friday evening. I suspect that it's done to make it more difficult for people to reach their lawyers during an intrusion.
maybe cops don't have much to do on friday nights
Donut shops closed on Friday nights?
I just talked to Bill. They have taken at least one computer and they had some hard-on over a printer. Don't know what the deal is. I guess they are pretending to do some kind of investigation over a crime that can be committed with a printer.
The only real crime that I can think of that can be committed with a printer is to whack someone over the head with it. Perhaps that happened in some parallel universe and they are confiscating it to examine the blood evidence.
NOT!
We all know how much the bureaucrats hate printers. Those things can create words on paper that question the words on paper that they say we must abide by or else. It already happened at least once to this government, and they don't want it to happen again: http://www.earlyamerica.com/earlyamerica/milestones/commonsense/
well they mentioned fraud. any printer made after 01 i believe has a micro print pattern. basically like a serial number on every page you make with the printer. so if you printed some fraudulent docs or some money or whatever they could match it to that printer. easily. thats how big brother rolls.
another quick thought: donations for sam went to ivy ... maybe they are holding her responsible for those funds and taxes or something on them as well? it sucks when a computer is taken which is why i would advise anyone on here to always have an emergency "kill switch" for your computer hardware. you seldom realize how much data is on your machine and how easily it is accessed.
just off the top of my head these are my rough times for breaking into machines:
power on password - 1 minute
login password regardless of how "secure" it is: 2 minutes
getting into a mac: 6 minutes
linux box: 4 minutes
long story short and point i am trying to convey: once i have physical access to your machine i own you, your identity, passwords, and everything you ever did have done etc i know within a short amount of time. unless you have a kill switch. if you have that it is too much time and money for me to bother. now think about it.
Perhaps they like to serve warrants after the judge and everyone went home on Friday and so that if they hold anyone they can hold them until Monday.
Quote from: Friday on June 05, 2009, 05:15 PM NHFT
I thought my reason was quite clear: to disagree with several previous posters stating they believe that Ivy's arrest is a government conspiracy related to Sam's arrest.
I won't "hijack" your thread by posting in it again.
Ah. Well, then I apologize. From that "wow" post here, and the innuendous comments you were making in that shunning thread about people who "should be ashamed of themselves" or somesuch, I was getting the impression that you were one of the people still critical of Ivy for the various past mistakes and dramas she's been the center of. Not exactly thinking clearly considering everything that's going on right now. Nevermind. :)
I called and they won't give me her charges, neither the answering officer nor the sarge.
Quote from: KBCraig on June 05, 2009, 06:44 PM NHFT
Odd. I wonder what connection Ivy's computer could have to receiving welfare in RI.
I'm thinking it's not a good idea to speculate about any of this on an open forum, potentially giving away information they don't already have about Ivy.
Quote from: Atlas on June 05, 2009, 11:21 PM NHFT
I called and they won't give me her charges, neither the answering officer nor the sarge.
Charges are all documented here (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6).
Geeze, they are swatting you folks off like flies.
Quote from: anthonybpugh on June 05, 2009, 10:26 PM NHFT
Perhaps they like to serve warrants after the judge and everyone went home on Friday and so that if they hold anyone they can hold them until Monday.
Warrants served on Friday after 4, especially if they're arrest warrants, are timed for exactly that reason: to screw with the victim.
Quotelong story short and point i am trying to convey: once i have physical access to your machine i own you, your identity, passwords, and everything you ever did have done etc i know within a short amount of time. unless you have a kill switch. if you have that it is too much time and money for me to bother. now think about it.
I'd recommend simply keeping all your important data on an encrypted partition and use PGP for email. If you use IM you can get encryption plugins for Pidgin and I'm sure others. Keeping an offsite copy of the encrypted data is important too.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 05, 2009, 11:26 PM NHFT
I'm thinking it's not a good idea to speculate about any of this on an open forum, potentially giving away information they don't already have about Ivy.
please do not post here and then ask people to not speculate on our forum ... we comment and speculate a lot here
If you don't believe him you should try being in a room reading the speculation while hearing what is really happening over your shoulder.
Quote from: littlehawk on June 05, 2009, 11:52 PM NHFT
Geeze, they are swatting you folks off like flies.
throwing people in jail ... is what this government does best
since noone i know has been shooting back and such ... it will continue for now
many of my favorite books have been written by guys in jail
G'day To the mob, one and all
Chase is my name...known as the new guy..retired tradeshow magician and doer of hanky-poo.
she is being charged under a statue by the sound of it...now mates I am NOT a attorney nor am i giving legal advice...just a couple of thought of what I might do...or better yet..read what this former police officer did...hope it is of help....
Never leave dry land!!...read on and you will understand even more...smile.
On the day of April 20, 2009, a Free man on the land commonly known as Martin Earl: Fisher went to the business office of The Navajo County Court. I went to present the PERSON, a legal fiction which lives only in a fictional world of Legist Personas Case No. CR2009-0303, Navajo County Arizona.
I, as an Agent of the PERSON had already served, via registered US Mail a NOTICE on the Judge that I reserved all of my rights and charged a fee of $2500 in Gold and silver coin of the united States for acting as Agent of the PERSON. I gave her 24 hours to reject my offer to serve as an agent over the account by dropping the charge with prejudice. If she did not, I would consider my offer accepted and fulfill the order to present the PERSON at a hearing.
The charge was taken to a grand jury who returned a true bill. The amount of my fee was about $50,000 Federal Reserve Notes, since us gold and silver coins can only lawfully be exchanged for face value of the coin.
I got no response, so my offer was accepted and my fee agreed to. (I will explain how I will collect later). BTW, the charge was for every order given that I chose to fulfill. Then I went on about the Law, her oath of office, blah blah, I am the master, she is the servant, blah blah. UCC, ALL RIGHTS RESERVED, COMMON LAW reservation of rights the works.
So, the man goes to court and the security guard gives me a piece of paper with some mumbo jumbo about how the hearing was not until next week. I took a blue pen, wrote on the paper, "ACCEPTED FOR VALUE RETURNED FOR VALUE BY: my signature, WITHOUT PREJUDICE AND REFUSAL FOR CAUSE FOR MARTIN E. FISHER" I gave it back to him and told him to give it to the judge.
A few min. later, another guard handed me a motion paper to fill out and submit so I could try to have the hearing today. I did not fill it out. Sovereigns do not PLEAD, they simply request and their servants fulfill the request (the Law of Kings). Lest you think I am boasting or Ego filled, you must remember everyone working for the Government is a SWORN PUBLIC SERVANT; it is their oath and duty to SERVE the public.
So, I notice that the name and case is marked out on the calendar, I go into the court room anyway. The so called Honorable judge walks in and everyone but me stands up. (Standing for another human is not equality; she does not stand when I enter the room). She is wearing her black Priest Robe, so the show begins. There are two armed bailiffs there just for little ole' me.
If you have never seen your Government in action, go to any court and watch the show. They always make the PERSON say their name and walk past the "BAR" (this is the act of getting on a ship, and subjecting your "PERSON" to Maritime Jurisdiction and leaving the land) Look at the Flag of any court room, it will have a gold fringe around it, this is a Maritime Flag or military Flag, it gives away the fact you are not on the land, but 'under' Admiralty jurisdiction and a passenger on a ship. The list of names and cases outside the court is a passenger list and ship manifest, just like the old days for getting on a ship. This is why, if you board the ship and complain about your "Constitutional Rights" the judge will give you a contempt charge. The Captain of the ship has control of the ship while on the water, the Constitution is the law of the Land, you just left the land if you gave your name, respond to any title (Mr. Mrs. DEFENDANT, whatever) or walked past the BAR. You choose to get on the ship and surrender your Rights listed in the Constitution. We were magically transformed into a PERSON, not a man or a woman.
So, I go into court and the judge calls my persons name, I say "I am here on that NUMBER". The game starts, is your NAME MARTIN FISHER?
"I am commonly known as Martin Fisher" I do not go past the BAR and stay on dry land.
Is your name "MARTIN FISHER?"
I am here to present "Martin Fisher."
Ok, Mr. FISHER...
No maim, I am not a MISTER, I am a man, you can call me Martin.
The Bailiff will give this to MARTIN FISHER.
(He walks up and takes a paper from her and brings it toward me)
I ignore him and do not take the paper.
"Maim, you must not understand, I am not MARTIN FISHER and that paper does not have my name on it, I cannot accept it. On and for the record, do you have the right to tell me who I am?"
No reply to my question, instead, I get "Let the record show Martin is appearing for MARTIN FISHER (men and women cannot appear, only ghosts can) I interrupt her and say; "No, let the record show I am not appearing, I am here, a man standing on dry ground, you do not have jurisdiction over me, nor can you call me whatever you want."
She gets out this big book of STATUTES and says "Rule 9 of the criminal..." I don't even let her finish.
"Excuse me maim, is that a Statute you just quoted? Or is it a Law?" "On and for the record, if it is a Statute, it does not apply to me, as I am not under your Admiralty Jurisdiction, I have not entered into your jurisdiction, and you do not have my consent to bring me into your jurisdiction."
"Now, judge, answer my question on and for the record, is that a Statute or a LAW?"
No answer, the book gets closed and the judge is now getting pissed.
"Again, on and for the Record, I am a man, standing on dry ground and a SOVEREIGN, statutes do not apply to me- do you on and for the record wish to dispute that? I am here for one reason, that is to challenge your jurisdiction, do you on the record want to claim you have jurisdiction over me, a sovereign man standing on dry land or not?"
She is literally forcing herself to keep her mouth closed. "I am telling the Bailiffs to remove Mr. Fisher from this hearing, it will continue without him." Two bailiffs, one on each side of me, armed with GLOCK pistols start telling me to leave the court room.
Me: "ON AND FOR THE RECORD, YOU DO NOT HAVE MY CONSENT TO TOUCH ME, DO NOT TOUCH ME!"
"THIS IS A COURT OF ADMIRALTY JURISDICTION IT CANNOT MOVE WITHOUT MY CONSENT, WHICH IT DOES NOT HAVE."
"DO NOT TOUCH ME!"
They continue to tell me to leave and the judge continues to talk, it was a mess, but I stood my ground. The Judge is dying to give me an order, but she KNOWS what that will cost (remember my fee of $2500 in Gold and Silver coin for every order I fulfill).
There is now another armed Sheriff in the room as well the 6 or 7 other people who have been there the whole time.
The Judge stands up and says "This hearing is adjourned!" the court recorder, and everyone else on her ship were taken aback by this and did not even have time to stand up before judge was out of the room.
I turned to bailiff and said "I will not leave this court until I choose to, in fact, I am going to sit right here, on this bench." I sat down and he is still telling me I have to leave. I tell him "The judge left the room it is now MINE. This is a court of the People, I am one of the people, she left the court room to me, since it is rightfully mine and she knows it, that is why she left and I am still here!"
After a few more educational moments with one of our public servants, he apologized and I told him there was no reason for that, I appreciated his professionalism and for touching me.
I then told those left in my court room, "I am now leaving by my own choice." I steeled myself to walk out the door, fully expecting the scene from the MATRIX when NEO walks into the building to save Morpheus from the agents and SWAT team in black uniforms start shooting. But alas, nobody likes to play with me; I had a pleasant conversation with an old friend and left the building knowing I am a free man on the land. As I walked past the guard who was at the front door, I smiled and said "Damn it feels good to be a FREE-MAN!" to the rap cadence of 'Damn it feels good to be a gangsta' because, you know, I am a 40 year old white guy and that's cool, right?
I swear the above to be true and recorded to the best of my memory, without prejudice and not legal advice. By: Martin Earl: Fisher.
Thank you antiterrorist, robert, sam, Lewis, et al! The truth shall set you free.
After a 1.5 years of hard study, prayer and several learning experiences, I think I got it!!!
"Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must undergo the fatigue of supporting it." Thomas Paine
Love and peace to all!
By the way, she is known as the toughest judge in the county! The hanging judge they call her, I hear. I guess what really made the difference was 1. I really practiced what I would say. 2. I served her with a hell of a fee schedule, 2500 in gold and silver coin at face value is about $50,000 US Federal Reserve Notes, for EACH ORDER, payable at time of service. Fasting and prayers did not hurt either. Thanks to the Creator for this information!!
Tomorrow, a bill will be served via Notary with a 72 hour pay deadline, then a certificate of non-response and collection charges of 2500 US Gold or Silver coin PER DAY until it is paid, plus collection charges as I see fit. If anyone like more details or where I got my info, I will be glad to share it here, as it was provided for me without charge or profit by my showers of the lawful path.
I really pushed, I was a police officer for 7 years, I know how to read people, she never directly confronted me, even with prolonged eye contact, when she did, she looked away quickly. I wanted to push the issue so I did. I do not recommend my approach for everyone.
Quote from: bile on June 06, 2009, 01:18 AM NHFT
Quotelong story short and point i am trying to convey: once i have physical access to your machine i own you, your identity, passwords, and everything you ever did have done etc i know within a short amount of time. unless you have a kill switch. if you have that it is too much time and money for me to bother. now think about it.
I'd recommend simply keeping all your important data on an encrypted partition and use PGP for email. If you use IM you can get encryption plugins for Pidgin and I'm sure others. Keeping an offsite copy of the encrypted data is important too.
this should probably be in another thread. i dont want to hijack this on computer security but ...
any software application i.e. PGP, TrueCrypt etc doesnt prevent me (or anyone else) from getting into the machine as the user or another user with admin rights within a short amount of time rendering the encryption and all other software (non physical) security useless.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 05, 2009, 11:29 PM NHFT
Quote from: Atlas on June 05, 2009, 11:21 PM NHFT
I called and they won't give me her charges, neither the answering officer nor the sarge.
Charges are all documented here (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6).
Jeremy - you are documenting the NH charges from yesterday's arraignment and the fugitive from justice charge. Presumably, there are felony fraud or embezzlement charges in Rhode Island that triggered the fugitive from justice charges.
Case ID: P2-2009-1087A - SHARON ANKROM
Court : (SC) SUPERIOR COURT Location : (P) PROVIDENCE COUNTY
Filing Date: Friday , February 20th, 2009
Type: F - FELONY
Status: none
Quote from: jzacker on June 06, 2009, 09:15 AM NHFT
I'd recommend simply keeping all your important data on an encrypted partition and use PGP for email. If you use IM you can get encryption plugins for Pidgin and I'm sure others. Keeping an offsite copy of the encrypted data is important too.
Very interesting. Is there any security software you DO recommend? Or is it all bunk?
well some are "better" than others but for teh most part software is software and it can be broken. some just make it harder than others. i.e. checkpoint is a pre-boot and salts the hash every single time it would take YEARS to break it with brute force. but if you are LE it takes about 20 minutes on the phone with checkpoint. same goes for pretty much any other username/password/encryption on anything. if LE wants your email password they just send a fax and have it 20 minutes later or faster sometimes. honestly physical destruction is pretty much the ONLY way to secure data. the downside is that if you dont get there first you cant exactly physically destroy anything. its complicated i guess.
this has been split into another topic now on the gen duscuss forum. find that one those who are interested
Quote from: ny2nh on June 06, 2009, 09:11 AM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 05, 2009, 11:29 PM NHFT
Quote from: Atlas on June 05, 2009, 11:21 PM NHFT
I called and they won't give me her charges, neither the answering officer nor the sarge.
Charges are all documented here (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6).
Jeremy - you are documenting the NH charges from yesterday's arraignment and the fugitive from justice charge. Presumably, there are felony fraud or embezzlement charges in Rhode Island that triggered the fugitive from justice charges.
Case ID: P2-2009-1087A - SHARON ANKROM
Court : (SC) SUPERIOR COURT Location : (P) PROVIDENCE COUNTY
Filing Date: Friday , February 20th, 2009
Type: F - FELONY
Status: none
Thanks. Looks like the details are all here (http://courtconnect.courts.ri.gov/pls/ri_adult/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=P&case_id=P2-2009-1087A&begin_date=&end_date=).
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 06, 2009, 11:02 AM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 06, 2009, 09:11 AM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 05, 2009, 11:29 PM NHFT
Quote from: Atlas on June 05, 2009, 11:21 PM NHFT
I called and they won't give me her charges, neither the answering officer nor the sarge.
Charges are all documented here (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6).
Jeremy - you are documenting the NH charges from yesterday's arraignment and the fugitive from justice charge. Presumably, there are felony fraud or embezzlement charges in Rhode Island that triggered the fugitive from justice charges.
Case ID: P2-2009-1087A - SHARON ANKROM
Court : (SC) SUPERIOR COURT Location : (P) PROVIDENCE COUNTY
Filing Date: Friday , February 20th, 2009
Type: F - FELONY
Status: none
Thanks. Looks like the details are all here (http://courtconnect.courts.ri.gov/pls/ri_adult/ck_public_qry_doct.cp_dktrpt_frames?backto=P&case_id=P2-2009-1087A&begin_date=&end_date=).
FLS DOC TO PUB OFF/EMPLO/AGEN might explain why they're interested in her printer. If she dummied up forms, her printer's signature will be all over it.
Quote from: leetninja on June 05, 2009, 09:41 PM NHFT
just off the top of my head these are my rough times for breaking into machines:
power on password - 1 minute
login password regardless of how "secure" it is: 2 minutes
getting into a mac: 6 minutes
linux box: 4 minutes
long story short and point i am trying to convey: once i have physical access to your machine i own you, your identity, passwords, and everything you ever did have done etc i know within a short amount of time. unless you have a kill switch. if you have that it is too much time and money for me to bother. now think about it.
TrueCrypt WDE + File containers on a Dropbox.
Quotewell some are "better" than others but for teh most part software is software and it can be broken. some just make it harder than others. i.e. checkpoint is a pre-boot and salts the hash every single time it would take YEARS to break it with brute force. but if you are LE it takes about 20 minutes on the phone with checkpoint. same goes for pretty much any other username/password/encryption on anything. if LE wants your email password they just send a fax and have it 20 minutes later or faster sometimes. honestly physical destruction is pretty much the ONLY way to secure data. the downside is that if you dont get there first you cant exactly physically destroy anything. its complicated i guess.
this has been split into another topic now on the gen duscuss forum. find that one those who are interested
Nonsense. I've been studying strong cryptography for almost 10 years. There are algorithms that are mathematically secure and, unless you possess some component of the password, require astronomical (in the literal sense) amounts of CPU time to crack, especially if the source data is converted to high entropy format prior to encryption. Weaknesses are typically user error, not any weakness in the encryption itself.
Quote from: Little Owl on June 06, 2009, 05:03 PM NHFT
Quotewell some are "better" than others but for teh most part software is software and it can be broken. some just make it harder than others. i.e. checkpoint is a pre-boot and salts the hash every single time it would take YEARS to break it with brute force. but if you are LE it takes about 20 minutes on the phone with checkpoint. same goes for pretty much any other username/password/encryption on anything. if LE wants your email password they just send a fax and have it 20 minutes later or faster sometimes. honestly physical destruction is pretty much the ONLY way to secure data. the downside is that if you dont get there first you cant exactly physically destroy anything. its complicated i guess.
this has been split into another topic now on the gen duscuss forum. find that one those who are interested
Nonsense. I've been studying strong cryptography for almost 10 years. There are algorithms that are mathematically secure and, unless you possess some component of the password, require astronomical (in the literal sense) amounts of CPU time to crack, especially if the source data is converted to high entropy format prior to encryption. Weaknesses are typically user error, not any weakness in the encryption itself.
and furthermore, EVERY web app i've created used SHA encryption. and even i with full access to the system cannot tell what it is. unless you brute force the password IF you know the hash...
let us know when/where we can write to her.
edit: oh; is Ivy.JailedActivist.Info address correct?
Quote from: brian.travis on June 05, 2009, 09:19 PM NHFT
I just talked to Bill. They have taken at least one computer and they had some hard-on over a printer. Don't know what the deal is. I guess they are pretending to do some kind of investigation over a crime that can be committed with a printer.
[...]
Quote from: leetninja on June 05, 2009, 09:25 PM NHFT
well they mentioned fraud. any printer made after 01 i believe has a micro print pattern. basically like a serial number on every page you make with the printer. so if you printed some fraudulent docs or some money or whatever they could match it to that printer. easily. thats how big brother rolls.
Quote from: nhclogTwo counts of violating RSA 262:16, "Counterfeit, Unauthorized or Forged Stickers, or Decals or Facsimile; Altered or Modified Temporary Motor Vehicle Registration Plates,"
I expect the printer was seized to prove that it was used to print the stickers and temp plates they are charging her with counterfeiting. The computer that was seized will likely be searched to discover files used as sources for those documents. I expect the computer seized was attached to the printer. That's why the wireless router was left alone, since it likely played little to no part in the creation and printing of the sticker and temp plate the NH police are interested in.
-Nat
Coconut: I don't know if it's correct. As far as I've seen she's being held at the Belknap County DOC and if so I believe that address is right. I've been busy this weekend and didn't get a chance to give their website a good scan to see how to send stuff to prisoners. I sent an message to jraxis to confirm but have yet to hear back.
I'm not trying to change topics, but can we keep this about Ivy's arrest?
I've always kept quiet when various threads go way off topic, but her being gone may relate to Sam's case and that's why I watch this thread. She put in the time for Sam. I am concerned about her being gone for a while and even if I was personally affected by Ivy's past, she deserves a pass in my book for her effort to get Sam released.
I'm not there now. I wasn't there then. Whatever some FSP's have as an opinion toward her is their opinion. When it comes to printers leaving a distinct signature and PC security I'd love to hear learn more about that too.
Send me the link where the new threads are posted. I'll follow them.
Her direct involvement in Sam's defense should be enough grounds for Sam to be granted a postponement...
That is if Sam is willing to wait, rather than seek his release.
What the hell are you folks doing!!! you keep going like you are...she is going to go to jail for a long time!!
somebody send me a phone number to talk to the folks trying to help her...You need to summit some paperwork to the court fast...before you give them complete Jurisdiction in this case!! We can stop this before it gets to court!! Also get her to sign the Power of attorney..for her friend NOW!!
Chase
thanks for swearing at me in your 11th post
Quote from: Guardian Knights on June 07, 2009, 03:39 PM NHFT
What the hell are you folks doing!!! you keep going like you are...she is going to go to jail for a long time!!
somebody send me a phone number to talk to the folks trying to help her...You need to summit some paperwork to the court fast...before you give them complete Jurisdiction in this case!! We can stop this before it gets to court!! Also get her to sign the Power of attorney..for her friend NOW!!
Chase
http://www.nhclog.org/contact
Quote from: Guardian Knights on June 07, 2009, 03:39 PM NHFT
What the hell are you folks doing!!! you keep going like you are...she is going to go to jail for a long time!!
somebody send me a phone number to talk to the folks trying to help her...You need to summit some paperwork to the court fast...before you give them complete Jurisdiction in this case!! We can stop this before it gets to court!! Also get her to sign the Power of attorney..for her friend NOW!!
Chase
Why don't you fill out the forms and submit the paperwork?
1.) I am not an attorney.
2.) I am not her Attorney.
3.) I have no idea where they stand with the court.
4.) I have no idea of charges pending.
Lads I won't rush in were angels fear to tread...without full knowledge of what has happened so far, the wee one is in enough trouble without ticking off the court further. Now I would strongly suggest that the good folks trying to help her...start doing some detective work...Information is what is need at this time! Someone needs to talk to her and get her side of what is going on.
Now one other point...how many of these kids are in jail...3 last count? They all lost and are now sitting in jail because they didn't prepare. They didn't know how to protect them self's in the courtroom. Has any one of these brave Souls filed a claim of right? Denial of corporate existence? Does anyone in their group know how a contempt charge works? Much less how to defend against one? Do they understand what a person is? Crikey mates...Ian was asking the Judge if he was giving him an Order...when he should have been putting that Judge on his Oath of Office. Then demand his 6th amendment Right to full understanding of the charges place against him...never happened did it? You want to do Freeman Rights? I have been doing this for about 5 yars now...and I've not even scratch the surface. Want to be a sovereign...fine there is a price to be paid...you have to claim the knowledge as your own. That means study groups...we do Monday night class here, each member has two Power of attorneys on file for two different people. Everyone here has done a claim of right under notary seal and then placed in the public record. along with other documents all filed for the public record. We have fill in motions for the group. Each member watches the others back. We do not make a circus of going to courts with cams and disrupt the whole bloody courthouse..we use hidden cams on our people in the courtroom. We do not seek conflict...but peaceful abundance. Start your study groups...learn the court system...But NEVER forget who you are...A child of God...a Sovereign in a common law jurisdiction!
With love and respect to the kids
Chase
Quote from: Russell Kanning on June 07, 2009, 05:28 PM NHFT
thanks for swearing at me in your 11th post
Sorry mate, not my intent...but this is bloody maddest and the kids are acting reckless ...food for the dragon they are 3 quick snacks for the beast. There is a better way...trust me on this.
Again sorry
Chase
One is an extradition hearing, so invalidating the warrant would be the only option. If its possible, Ivy will do it.
Sam will be released after the hearing.
But neither is being charged as a corporate entity.
But, there may have been fringe on the flag
I've just sent Ivy 4 fat envelopes full of information from the Christian anarchist group Embassy of Heaven Church. And I've ordered 3 of their books to be shipped to her directly from the church, who publishes them. There should be enough information contained in all of these for her to use to make a stand against the courts claiming they have no jurisdiction over her, should she choose to use the information to do so. I only hope her jailers allow her to receive my mail and the books from the Embassy of Heaven. If someone finds out whether or not she receives the materials, would you please let me know? Thanks!
Video of the arraignment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XTOZfmsVs) is posted.
NH-CLOG stories updated. I've split the arrest (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6) and arraignment, impoundment, raid (http://www.nhclog.org/node/10) into two different stories. This is sort of how I plan to use NH-CLOG in general: A new story for each day in a case—an arrest, a court day, a motion decision, &c., will each get their own stories.
To link to the "whole" story, use this link (http://www.nhclog.org/taxonomy/term/54). All stories in the case will be tagged with that docket number.
Thanks Jeremy. Very cool that there's an RSS feed for the docket number. Makes it much easier to keep up with.
she looks like hell. is she really that sick?
Quote from: violence on June 08, 2009, 01:49 PM NHFT
she looks like hell. is she really that sick?
ivy is sick?
Ivy's not sick, she's pregnant.
I have to file some paperwork in Laconia District court.
If someone could find/give me a ride to do that ... and perhaps if I receive approval from a judge to be Ivy's attorney of Record to finally see her after all this, that would be appreciated.
Thanks.
again huh... nice
Visiting hours for Sharon Akrom
9-10:30 am on Sundays
5-7:30 pm on Thursdays
The jailer says she's in medium security
Quote from: RevDebbie on June 08, 2009, 12:18 PM NHFT
I've just sent Ivy 4 fat envelopes full of information from the Christian anarchist group Embassy of Heaven Church. And I've ordered 3 of their books to be shipped to her directly from the church, who publishes them. There should be enough information contained in all of these for her to use to make a stand against the courts claiming they have no jurisdiction over her, should she choose to use the information to do so. I only hope her jailers allow her to receive my mail and the books from the Embassy of Heaven. If someone finds out whether or not she receives the materials, would you please let me know? Thanks!
Embassy of Heaven good
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 08, 2009, 12:55 PM NHFT
Video of the arraignment (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=54XTOZfmsVs) is posted.
NH-CLOG stories updated. I've split the arrest (http://www.nhclog.org/node/6) and arraignment, impoundment, raid (http://www.nhclog.org/node/10) into two different stories. This is sort of how I plan to use NH-CLOG in general: A new story for each day in a case—an arrest, a court day, a motion decision, &c., will each get their own stories.
To link to the "whole" story, use this link (http://www.nhclog.org/taxonomy/term/54). All stories in the case will be tagged with that docket number.
I've made it so JailedActivist.info's RSS feed includes new pages. If you use http://jailedactivist.info/feed/?orderby=modified you should see when the pages get updated.
[Bill just got arrested at the restaurant.] The cops took Peter.
Calls attached; getting details now.
Peter was taken by the grandparents—they were there at the restaurant with the police. So at least we know DCYF doesn't have him. Bill is at the restaurant and able to answer calls at the restaurant telephone number, 603-744-3210.
He doesn't need someone up there tonight; court's closed already. He'll need to do stuff tomorrow though. He needs us to look into how to file a "motion to intervene" in this sort of custody situation; needs good reasons to be an "involved party" in the dispute. I'm looking up this info online now; if anyone else can help, great.
Is being with his grandparents a bad thing? He seems like such a sweet little kid.
http://www.nhclog.org/node/11
Quote from: Kat Kanning on June 09, 2009, 03:24 PM NHFT
Is being with his grandparents a bad thing? He seems like such a sweet little kid.
These are the grandparents Ivy's left Peter with before. But there's some reason she didn't want to do that this time, which I don't know, so Bill needs to get him back.
While we (me and Bill) were at the jail earlier, I was bored and decided to take a walk around back to where the inmates where playing in the fenced-in area and nearly got arrested. The CO was such a dick, asked me what the hell I was doing and I told him I was just saying hi to the inmates. He replied, "this is jail and you can't say hi to the inmates" in an extremely pissed off tone.
I'm with you Kat - the best place for Peter to be is with his grandparents in RI right now. Bill is not his father, his guardian, actually his anything....just another male figure in his life.....gGod knows he has had enough of them. He is the only party involved that I actually have and pity for. Poor kid - he deserves better than this.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 09, 2009, 03:32 PM NHFT
I'm with you Kat - the best place for Peter to be is with his grandparents in RI right now.
I didn't mean that. I just wondered if there was something wrong with the grandparents. Was really just asking for info.
Sorry - I misunderstood you. I stand my my opinion....
From Brian Travis—confirmed, Peter's with Ivy's parents, on way to Rhode Island. Will need ride to court tomorrow. Call attached.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 09, 2009, 03:42 PM NHFT
Sorry - I misunderstood you. I stand my my opinion....
No problem.
i think the more important question here is was there any reasonable or legitimate reason to take the kid away from Bill and disrupt and disturb his established life up in NH that he has had for how long?
Quote from: leetninja on June 09, 2009, 04:31 PM NHFT
i think the more important question here is was there any reasonable or legitimate reason to take the kid away from Bill and disrupt and disturb his established life up in NH that he has had for how long?
Perhaps the grandparents saw Bill's enraged rants and threats on the FreeKeene forum.
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=1061.0
He's not Bill's kid. He's not even Bill's step-kid. He IS the grandparents' grandson though.
Disrupt and disturb his established life in NH....you're joking, right? What about anything in that kids life hasn't been disruptive and disturbed.
arent bill and ivy a couple? presumably when she gets out of the mess she is currently tangled in (soon?) she will go back to living with bill? im not up to speed on bill and ivy's personal life lol
1) Bill and Ivy's personal life probably has little/no business being spewed here.
2) (Edit: Post Removed [Thanks])
3) That is all.
My apologies to everyone else :)
Quote from: leetninja on June 09, 2009, 04:49 PM NHFT
arent bill and ivy a couple? presumably when she gets out of the mess she is currently tangled in (soon?) she will go back to living with bill? im not up to speed on bill and ivy's personal life lol
Bill and Ivy are a couple. That doesn't give Bill a whole lot of legal grounds as far as custody goes. Did you watch the arraignment video? Doesn't sound like she will be out any time soon. She has felony charges against her - one of which is fugitive from justice. Like it or ot, agree with it or not, that is not something to be taken lightly. And she wants to represent herself or have Bill do it? Hello - when charged with a felony (or a couple) you might want to think about actually hiring a lawyer. Or - Like Sharon will likely do - pretend to be one yourself and see how that works out.
Quote from: LordBaltimore on June 09, 2009, 04:42 PM NHFT
Perhaps the grandparents saw Bill's enraged rants and threats on the FreeKeene forum.
http://forum.freekeene.com/index.php?topic=1061.0
Threats? Bill certainly expressed a lot of anger, but if there was a threat there, even implied, I missed it.
Maybe it was the "I know where you Live" comment. :o
Wonder if Bill & Ivy paid for that there ultrasound or if the good old taxpayers of NH did?
lol.
my old lady didn't have insurance and it only cost me 4k for a midwife and about ~400 for everything else added together like ultrasound and a couple tests
Quote from: violence on June 09, 2009, 07:10 PM NHFT
lol.
my old lady didn't have insurance and it only cost me 4k for a midwife and about ~400 for everything else added together like ultrasound and a couple tests
But I'm guessing you paid for it, right? Since she was just online a month or so ago begging for $$ to pay the electric bill at the restaurant....it wouldn't seem like they would have the $$ for an ultrasound. Or maybe that was all just a big fraud, too.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 09, 2009, 07:15 PM NHFT
Quote from: violence on June 09, 2009, 07:10 PM NHFT
lol.
my old lady didn't have insurance and it only cost me 4k for a midwife and about ~400 for everything else added together like ultrasound and a couple tests
But I'm guessing you paid for it, right? Since she was just online a month or so ago begging for $$ to pay the electric bill at the restaurant....it wouldn't seem like they would have the $$ for an ultrasound. Or maybe that was all just a big fraud, too.
yea i totally paid for it, i paid cash up front it would've been 6,600 if i payed over time.
midwives are great too, hospitals suck ass. only thing is you cant' get a epidural so you gotta do it all natural.
i suspect ivy would've have any problems considering... oh i'm a bitch
Miller is heading up there first thing on Wednesday with Jeremy to pick up Bill and take him to court so he can file motions to get his stepson back. Yes, his stepson. the child of his wife whom he provides for. Isn't that the definition of a step child?
No, wait. The term "stepchild" is defined as some legal fiction relating to a couple that has a legal fiction called a "legal marriage".
Peter has spent a lot of time here at Porc Ranch. He is a sweet and smart kid who loves Bill and is very well adjusted. I don't know his grandparents, but I'm sure he will be safe and loved in that environment also.
But for people who have not spent time with Peter to second-guess what is best for him is just using the child as a pawn for their agenda of hatred about things that were resolved long ago.
Using innocent children to further a personal agenda of hatred is despicable.
Quote from: brian.travis on June 09, 2009, 09:38 PM NHFT
Miller is heading up there first thing on Wednesday with Jeremy to pick up Bill and take him to court so he can file motions to get his stepson back. Yes, his stepson. the child of his wife whom he provides for. Isn't that the definition of a step child?
No, wait. The term "stepchild" is defined as some legal fiction relating to a couple that has a legal fiction called a "legal marriage".
Peter has spent a lot of time here at Porc Ranch. He is a sweet and smart kid who loves Bill and is very well adjusted. I don't know his grandparents, but I'm sure he will be safe and loved in that environment also.
But for people who have not spent time with Peter to second-guess what is best for him is just using the child as a pawn for their agenda of hatred about things that were resolved long ago.
Using innocent children to further a personal agenda of hatred is despicable.
I strongly disagree with you. I have never met Ivy's parents, and don't know either Ivy or Bill well. But Ivy has posted quite recently that she put Peter in her mother's care while she was focusing on Sam's case. And Bill has indicated today that he is struggling to operate the restaurant alone. It seems perfectly logical that Ivy's mother should care for Peter while Ivy is in jail. Why the outrage, and blusterous talk of "using the child as a pawn for their agenda of hatred"?
the only thing that should matter here is what bill and ivy want - a decision made by them.
ny2nh - you come across as just someone who dislikes ivy (for whatever reason) and is enjoying this in a sick and twisted sort of way
violence - dont know you dont want to.
Quote from: Josh on June 09, 2009, 04:53 PM NHFT
1) Bill and Ivy's personal life probably has little/no business being spewed here.
Welcome to the N.H. Underground. There are some people on here who literally have nothing better to do than follow other people's personal lives and snipe at them every chance they get. And, as expected, one of them is right now intentionally trying to disrupt a thread about Ivy's arrest and legal proceedings by turning it into a debate about child custody. Just put her on ignore, and the thread is a lot nicer to follow. :)
when bill made a post about it, it became a topic. he put it into discussion.
Quote from: Friday on June 09, 2009, 10:05 PM NHFT
Quote from: brian.travis on June 09, 2009, 09:38 PM NHFT
Miller is heading up there first thing on Wednesday with Jeremy to pick up Bill and take him to court so he can file motions to get his stepson back. Yes, his stepson. the child of his wife whom he provides for. Isn't that the definition of a step child?
No, wait. The term "stepchild" is defined as some legal fiction relating to a couple that has a legal fiction called a "legal marriage".
Peter has spent a lot of time here at Porc Ranch. He is a sweet and smart kid who loves Bill and is very well adjusted. I don't know his grandparents, but I'm sure he will be safe and loved in that environment also.
But for people who have not spent time with Peter to second-guess what is best for him is just using the child as a pawn for their agenda of hatred about things that were resolved long ago.
Using innocent children to further a personal agenda of hatred is despicable.
I strongly disagree with you. I have never met Ivy's parents, and don't know either Ivy or Bill well. But Ivy has posted quite recently that she put Peter in her mother's care while she was focusing on Sam's case. And Bill has indicated today that he is struggling to operate the restaurant alone. It seems perfectly logical that Ivy's mother should care for Peter while Ivy is in jail. Why the outrage, and blusterous talk of "using the child as a pawn for their agenda of hatred"?
Friday, I wasn't talking about the grandparents. I was talking about certain people on this board who use any mention of Ivy to publicly announce their inability to move beyond incidents that happened in the past. Note to those people: your life will be better if you just let it go. Trust me.
I was sad to see Peter leave Bill, but I'm sure he will be well taken care of by his grandparents.
ny2nh .... are you involved in bill/ivy/peter's lives? do you want to be?
jeremy1230372 ... could you please not complain about our forum often? you post info here about bill and ivy and almost expect all the comments to be positive.
i don't really want to be involved in their lives ... but we let you all post on our forum right now .... you are going to have to take the good with the bad ... if you want only legal ... or positive personal comments to happen ... you will have to do that on your forum. Could you make the nhteaparty the bill and ivy forum? It would be easier for me. :)
i don't really know what goes on in their lives ... bill and ivy want to be together and they don't seem to be hurting the kid, since he likes them both and is pretty happy. I wish people were not using so much force against them, but I can't do anything about it. I also cannot moderate this forum to any of their supporter's satisfaction.
Sorry, Jeremy...again your constant adoration for Sharon is clouding your perspective. I am among many who are following this chapter of Ivy-drama - because, well, it is actually a little entertaining. Nothing that is happening is shocking to most - not those who are able to see her for who she is anyway. It's no surprise that she has created a bit of havoc in yet another community, not is it shocking to hear that she was unfaithful to Bill. It is a little peculiar though as to why her alleged thievery is somehow pro-liberty. Oh - but I guess anything Ivy does is pro-liberty and anything I do must be anti-liberty....because that fits into your view of things better.
As far as disrupting the thread by questioning why might be best for Peter and what Bill's remote legal leg on custody is.....well, these are discussion boards....silly me for thinking they were meant for discussion. Or is it only for those who happen to agree with you to discuss? I guess it's just easier to tell people to move along, just ignore those posts, there's nothing there for you to read....move along. :D
Quote from: brian.travis on June 10, 2009, 05:46 AM NHFT
Friday, I wasn't talking about the grandparents. I was talking about certain people on this board who use any mention of Ivy to publicly announce their inability to move beyond incidents that happened in the past. Note to those people: your life will be better if you just let it go. Trust me.
What incidents am I, or anyone else, not moving past, Brian? Just because some people choose to look at the big picture and take all of the actions of an individual into account when assessing a situation doesn't mean that those people "just won't let it go". I didn't this all into the limelight - Ivy and Bill did. Ivy with her actions - which I will reiterate are not really all that shocking - and Bill for choosing to post all of it on the internet. Had Bill confronted Nick directly, most of us wouldn't know that Ivy and Nick "spent time together". It probably is just easier to blame those of us following the threads instead. Maybe you've just been hanging with Jeremy too much - 'cause you're starting to sound like him. :o
Quote from: Russell Kanning on June 10, 2009, 06:37 AM NHFT
ny2nh .... are you involved in bill/ivy/peter's lives? do you want to be?
No, Russell, just a spectator of sorts. Much like the others who are doing the exact same thing I am....they just aren't posting any comments. :)
NY2NH is not using anything as a pawn. Sorry, the child needs to be in a loving and safe environment. With Bill being either at the restaurant or jail or researching the law, Peter needs to have some focus on Peter. I'm glad the grandparents are caring for him, and he is not in state care.
J'raxis does seem to take any possibly negative comment about Sharon personally, I'm not sure why. When you put the situation on the internet, I agree with Russell that you have to accept that people will comment (good, bad, indifferent).
My 2 cents, I do lose respect for people who use other people's money to raise their children (as I believe in the personal responsibility it takes to have a child, if you can not then you should take precautions or give them to someone who can...I realize this is a hard predicament, and believe in charity...not forced raising of children through welfare). I have even less respect for someone who abuses the system and takes MORE money out of the tax payers hands. This situation for me is so different from libertarian or civil disobedience suits. I applaud those who take a stand against the silly laws, I support them, I protest for them...those who are jailed for taking other people's money I am not going to support. I don't think this should be supported as an FSP or libertarian problem, just those who are personally involved.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 06:54 AM NHFT
Maybe you've just been hanging with Jeremy too much - 'cause you're starting to sound like him. :o
Who is Jeremy?
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 06:39 AM NHFT
It is a little peculiar though as to why her alleged thievery is somehow pro-liberty. Oh - but I guess anything Ivy does is pro-liberty and anything I do must be anti-liberty....because that fits into your view of things better.
I don't remember posting anything defending Ivy if the allegations from R.I. are true.
However, I do happen to agree with—I think it was Stephan Molyneux who's spoken about this idea?—the idea that a person is perfectly entitled to get back from the State the amount of money that the State has stolen from them. I understand that a lot of libertarians will refuse State funding for anything, on principle and to set an example, but it's perfectly morally acceptable, to me, to steal back what was stolen from you. I personally don't do this, but I have no problem with others who do.
There's also another school of thought, which seems to be what a lot of the Keene activism is about, and what NH-CLOG is most certainly about, and that's to
cost the State as much as possible when they go after us. Someone that I was discussing this very topic with last night described it as, stealing the gun from a man threatening to kill you. The State takes money from people to enable its aggression; taking that money away from them—in any amount—is simple self-defense. Now, I prefer to do this by making them waste their money themselves, not taking it from them for my own personal emolument, but the end result is the same.
I don't think either of these philosophies apply in Ivy's situation, since whatever happened in Rhode Island was long before Ivy became a freestater and started moving in this libertarian direction, but there's my complete take on "theft" from the State.
As for things you do that are anti-liberty: Stick to the tax and spending cap stuff and I'm fine with you. But I still haven't forgotten about your trying to sell pro–police state, pro–drug war Guinta to us. (By the way, sleazebag statist Sen. Gatsas is running for mayor now—any plans to bring him to MVP?) Or the dog park silliness and that sovereign immunity bill therefor. Or the increasingly probable theory that you're some sort of infiltrator/disruptor.
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 07:54 AM NHFT
J'raxis does seem to take any possibly negative comment about Sharon personally, I'm not sure why. When you put the situation on the internet, I agree with Russell that you have to accept that people will comment (good, bad, indifferent).
Most of it I ignore. See above why I tend to go after Tammy when she gets involved in these threads, and look at her posting history here and on the other forums to see how she obsesses over this stuff. In particular see this thread (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=17103.0) and what Tammy's obsessive friends turned it into.
That is why I get so pissed at these people.
Quote from: brian.travis on June 10, 2009, 08:32 AM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 06:54 AM NHFT
Maybe you've just been hanging with Jeremy too much - 'cause you're starting to sound like him. :o
Who is Jeremy?
You know - Jeremy - who you were at the Russell's with Peter with the other day. Trying to make it like you don't know Jeremy? Seriously?
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 09:01 AM NHFT
Quote from: brian.travis on June 10, 2009, 08:32 AM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 06:54 AM NHFT
Maybe you've just been hanging with Jeremy too much - 'cause you're starting to sound like him. :o
Who is Jeremy?
You know - Jeremy - who you were at the Russell's with Peter with the other day. Trying to make it like you don't know Jeremy? Seriously?
Are Jeremy and J'Raxis the same person? I only know some of the people on the forum by their handle. For Instance I only Know Russell Kanning as Russell Kanning, and Many people know me only as SandM000 and don't know my real name is Brian. Maybe that is the confusion here.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 09:01 AM NHFT
Quote from: brian.travis on June 10, 2009, 08:32 AM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 06:54 AM NHFT
Maybe you've just been hanging with Jeremy too much - 'cause you're starting to sound like him. :o
Who is Jeremy?
You know - Jeremy - who you were at the Russell's with Peter with the other day. Trying to make it like you don't know Jeremy? Seriously?
Oh, him! I like Jeremy. We moved his ambulance to Grafton and had a nice lunch with a bunch of great people. Freedom fighters. Jeremy is a non-violent sort of guy, working hard to make the world a better place for all of us
Sort of like the J'raxis fella who posts here.
I thought a common courtesy of the boards is that you don't use a person's real name unless it is their screen name. I guess if I was looking for common couresy I should stay off the forums. :(
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:38 AM NHFT
Most of it I ignore. See above why I tend to go after Tammy when she gets involved in these threads, and look at her posting history here and on the other forums to see how she obsesses over this stuff. In particular see this thread (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=17103.0) and what Tammy's obsessive friends turned it into. That is why I get so pissed at these people.
Tammy didn't post in that thread? So Tammy is in control of all of those people who are posting anti-Ivy sentiment? Or have some of us been opposed to her since DAY 1?http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0 (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0) Just in case you forgot, she was trying keep her RI benefits (like you could forget). Why
have you been trumpeting her cause from the beginning?
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:38 AM NHFT
I understand that a lot of libertarians will refuse State funding for anything, on principle and to set an example, but it's perfectly morally acceptable, to me, to steal back what was stolen from you. I personally don't do this, but I have no problem with others who do.
Sorry - I see stealing - in any form - as wrong. Two wrongs don;t make a right.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:38 AM NHFT
I don't think either of these philosophies apply in Ivy's situation, since whatever happened in Rhode Island was long before Ivy became a freestater and started moving in this libertarian direction, but there's my complete take on "theft" from the State.
Actually, that's far from the truth. Go back to the post where Beth was asking for help for Sharon.....she was right in the middle of the RI mess when she moved here. Or look at Sharon's various posts and she claims to have found her libertarian ways at the same time she was sucking of the government. Please = let's not try and make this out to be an incident from long, long ago! Sharon moved here in '07 and the RI stuff will likely unfold to have been in '07.
And isn't it amazing that she hasn't been here even 2 years?
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:38 AM NHFT
As for things you do that are anti-liberty: Stick to the tax and spending cap stuff and I'm fine with you. But I still haven't forgotten about your trying to sell pro–police state, pro–drug war Guinta to us. (By the way, sleazebag statist Sen. Gatsas is running for mayor now—any plans to bring him to MVP?) Or the dog park silliness and that sovereign immunity bill therefor. Or the increasingly probable theory that you're some sort of infiltrator/disruptor.
Phew, as long as Jeremy is OK with me working on the spending cap, then I guess I'm OK. I was really worried about that! (George - that was sarcasm. ;) )
I work to achieve more liberty than we have - but I also work to better my neighborhood and my community. The silly dog park is one of those things. If you can't wrap your head around why it would be good in a real, live place, then I don't know what to tell you. I guess you would rather see city owned land sit idle and become more and more blighted than to clean it up and make it a usable place for a large sector of the community.
And you're still stuck on Guinta coming to the MVP meeting and not endorsing RP, or what? He came, he answered your questions, and for that he did what wrong? And, no, I won't be bringing Gatsas (who by the way for those who don't know, got an A+ rating from the NHLA in '08, and the highest grade of an A (84%) in '07) to any MVP meeting anytime soon....there's nothing positive to come from it.
And that whole infiltrator/disruptor thing.....it's fun and all, but I would think you would have tired of looking so silly by now.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:38 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 07:54 AM NHFT
J'raxis does seem to take any possibly negative comment about Sharon personally, I'm not sure why. When you put the situation on the internet, I agree with Russell that you have to accept that people will comment (good, bad, indifferent).
Most of it I ignore. See above why I tend to go after Tammy when she gets involved in these threads, and look at her posting history here and on the other forums to see how she obsesses over this stuff. In particular see this thread (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=17103.0) and what Tammy's obsessive friends turned it into. That is why I get so pissed at these people.
I obsess of this? I do jump into the discussion, but if anyone obsesses my dear, that would have to be you. You, more than anyone else, posts all the drama in forum after forum after forum. That is far more obsessive than my responses or comments IMO.
About the thread you posted.....just to clarify to anyone who was not there and has only heard the Jeremy version of events. Sharon showed up, a bunch of people left. There was no storming out, there was no scene. I had made the decision that I had no desire to be in the same place as she was long before that night. Others felt the same way. When she arrived, we finished our drinks, paid our bills, tipped the servers generously since they ultimately were losing tips by us leaving, and left and went someplace else. No big scene like Jeremy would like people to believe. The next week, the whole gang of us went back because that is what we did on Tuesdays - went out for dinner and drinks - and we knew that if she showed up again, we would just leave again. We were not trying to make a statement, we just decided we really didn't need to be in the same place as her and made the principled decision to leave. Kind of like shunning, isn't it?
Quote from: brian.travis on June 10, 2009, 09:15 AM NHFT
I thought a common courtesy of the boards is that you don't use a person's real name unless it is their screen name. I guess if I was looking for common couresy I should stay off the forums. :(
Maybe, but then Jeremy would need to stop calling me Tammy. Of course, I don't have a problem with anyone knowing my real identity - because anything I say on the forums, I would say in real life.
Gee - sandm000 - I didn't know you were Brian. ;) Is that why you have his picture as your avatar? (oops, I guess that's on a different forum!)
I also have no problem with getting back taxes you paid (thus get as much back from the IRS). HOWEVER, Sharon was VERY public with the fact that she didn't pay taxes....so again she was knowingly and willingly taking from other people.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:38 AM NHFT
There's also another school of thought, which seems to be what a lot of the Keene activism is about, and what NH-CLOG is most certainly about, and that's to cost the State as much as possible when they go after us.
Yes, if they are going after "one of us" for doing some liberty related thing! Not making them spend MORE money on someone who already stole money from people.
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 09:35 AM NHFT
I also have no problem with getting back taxes you paid (thus get as much back from the IRS). HOWEVER, Sharon was VERY public with the fact that she didn't pay taxes....so again she was knowingly and willingly taking from other people.
That'd be quite a trick, paying no taxes. If only it were possible.
The sad fact is, when you pay rent, you are paying property taxes. When you buy a loaf of bread, you are paying the employer's matching taxes of the driver who delivered the bread to the store, plus the gas tax from the truck, the road tarriffs on the tires, and a million other taxes in the supply chain. The end consumer ends up paying all taxes.
I'm not sure where I stand on the two-wrongs-don't-make-a-right vs. get-what-you-can battle, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that anyone is exempt from taxes.
Quote from: brian.travis on June 10, 2009, 09:48 AM NHFT
but let's not fool ourselves into thinking that anyone is exempt from taxes.
a very salient point.
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 09:35 AM NHFT
I also have no problem with getting back taxes you paid (thus get as much back from the IRS). HOWEVER, Sharon was VERY public with the fact that she didn't pay federal taxes....so again she was knowingly and willingly taking from other people.
Is that what you meant?
or this one?
Quote
so again she was knowingly and willingly taking from other people's taxes without the stated purpose of doing it as political activism.
/I thought there was some serious lag between my posting and any responses, it's because the Kannings are on Nifty (NHFT - New Hampshire Free Time) D'oh
I agree that everyone pays taxes whether one way or another. I happen to think the best thing is to try and reduce the amount of taxes we pay by reducing the size of gov't and their need for more and more taxes.
That being said, when someone steals from the government, they are in essence in part stealing from me....since it was my money in the first place. Those who are paying even less taxes than the rest of us....then use even more of the government's "benefits"....then lie to get additional benefits....sorry, I can't think of single decent thing about any of that....regardless of whether it's Ivy or someone else.
OK, let me clarify...yes you are never exempt from taxes. I understand that. She never worked on the books, and therefore never paid state/local taxes, she never filed federal taxes (according to her). So she in essence was stealing from all who did. That was my point.
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 09:35 AM NHFT
I also have no problem with getting back taxes you paid (thus get as much back from the IRS). HOWEVER, Sharon was VERY public with the fact that she didn't pay taxes....so again she was knowingly and willingly taking from other people.
Every dollar that goes toward someone on welfare is a dollar they don't use on computerized bomber drones and depleted uranium bullets. I am not that angry at a person that collects money from the welfare system.
I would rather have a liberty activist take money from the state then have that money go to the politicians thugs or to bailout private industry.
If you can collect money from the state and bleed the beast, by all means do it. Especially if that mean you have time to do activism or home school your kids.
She stole from you (Lactivist,ny2nh)?
Oh my, then you must surely have some proof of ownership or loss.
When I'm being robbed I normally keep evidence of crimes against me along with gangsters' affiliations: Medicare,SS,Federal,Local,State,sales,sin and the most sneaky crime of all: counterfeiting (inflation).
Ivy attempted to take something which she did not own. She had no right to it. She did nothing to earn it. I am not going to grieve for the alleged victim in this case but the facts remain, she attempted to use deceit in order to gain something which wasn't hers.
Or are you trying to suggest that being a Welfare Queen in somehow justifiable libertarian activism?
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 10:08 AM NHFT
OK, let me clarify...yes you are never exempt from taxes. I understand that. She never worked on the books, and therefore never paid state/local taxes, she never filed federal taxes (according to her). So she in essence was stealing from all who did. That was my point.
I don't even know if Ivy took welfare. But taking welfare isn't stealing.
i can't believe people who are so called liberty activists are defending her on any other grounds than innocent until proven guilty (even though you admitted on several forums to what she was doing)
Quote from: Radical and Stuff on June 10, 2009, 01:26 PM NHFT
I don't even know if Ivy took welfare. But taking welfare isn't stealing.
Quote from: Beth221 on August 06, 2007, 01:58 PM NHFT
My name is Sharon Ankrom, but most folks call me Ivy. You do not know me, but you might remember Beth Golomb or Dan Garthwaite from PorcFest. They are my best friends and referred me to you for some advise. I'm not quite sure what advise I might need at the moment, since this is all just starting within the past few hours, but they said I should email you with my story and go from there.
Little background information: I am a single mother of two small children (5yof, 2yom) from RI. I do not have much income, so I am on my state's medical insurance for me and my son (my daughter is covered under her father's), collect some foodstamps for the three of us ($62.00/month), and am on the Child Care Assistance program my state offers. The CCA pays some or all of your day-care expenses depending on hours of employment and income level. Right now, my children have complete coverage. Each of these programs go through recertification every 6 months, where you need to verify your address, your employment, etc. Also, I have owned and operated my own landscaping company since last October. It was small time... I had one 'major' client and a few others I worked with from time to time. But this past June I picked up some waitressing shifts at a restaurant, and the restaurant suddenly took over much of my time, which left me with no time for my own business and put my company out of business. (Not a big deal - I was making good money in the restaurant anyways).
So in the last week of June I get a letter from the Dept of Human Services saying that my CCA will be ending June 30th because I "did not fill out my recertification form or provide the necessary information" - a form which I never received and information I was never told I needed to provide by a certain time. I called up my case worker Barbara Silvia to inquire what was going on.
On a side note, Barbara has taken issue with me several times in the past regarding my self employment. She, being a good little government employee, is all upset that I don't keep books for my cash business. She gives me all kinds of grief about it each time I speak with her.
I get her on the phone and she says that she had sent me the form "a few" weeks prior (she couldn't tell me when) and that since she had not received it and my information yet, my assistance would be ending. I asked if I could get a new copy of the form she (supposedly) sent me to fill out and return to her. She starts asking me about my employment looking for my records of my landscaping business. I again explain to her it's a cash business and I don't keep very good records and it would be hard to provide her with books, but her boss only required that I get him a letter from my client(s) last time (yes I had to get her boss involved in the prior recertification) and "that should do, right?". She starts in with "Well, didn't you file your tax return for last year? You should have had to report that income on your tax return! THAT should do, not some letter anyone can write!" I say to her "Well, Barbara, actually you are not technically required to pay federal personal income tax." I went on to explain to her briefly that in the federal tax code there is nothing that requires you to pay. I have become enlightened to the truth about tax laws - truth which I did not even know and I DO TAXES FOR A LIVING in the tax season. I had since become a member of the Libertarian party and of other organizations and fight against such frauds. I then said, "However, Barbara, I will say that, even if I claimed that income, my income is so low and would still be so low that I would have still had a zero tax liability and would not have paid taxes. I have had a zero tax liability for more than four years and AM NOT REQUIRED to pay federal income tax BY THE FEDS OWN STANDARDS." After that, she abruptly tried to end our conversation, saying that she would be starting to review her cases in a few days and even if I mailed my form today in she would not get it by then and my assistance would be ending. I then asked if I could come down to the office that afternoon and pick up the form and bring it to her the next day with all the information she required. She said to me "Don't even bother!" and explained that nothing I could do would stop my assistance from ending. I asked what I should do from here, and she says to me I should go and get a new application and send it in. New applications are allowed 30 days from the date they receive it to be processed - which means I'd be out of childcare for 30 days and therefore out of work for 30 days... who can keep a job that way??!!!
So at first I think, this woman has all the cards, I'm screwed anyways, suck it up. Fine. I get a new application, fill it out and send it in that day. A week and a few days go by, and I call to check on it and she claims she has never received my application. I fill out another one... same scenario. By now it is mid-June. The kids have been out of daycare for two weeks, and I have been out of work for one of those two (the first week I could afford a sitter...). After the application mysteriously getting lost in the mail twice, I figured I'll just bring it down to the office so it can't possibly get lost. Now it's June 19th and I bring down the form to the office. I tell the girl at the desk that the application has somehow gotten lost in the mail twice (yeah right) and I was bringing it down so it wont get lost again. She smiles and says, "You know what? Have a seat and I'll have another worker take that right from you so it doesn't get "lost" again. (I think they know what is going on...) So I go in and talk to this other guy Mike and he puts my application in the computer system. He says it will take a few days but it should be no problem, call next week.
Next week rolls around and I call up and she has done nothing with the case at all. I had to get her boss involved again to finally process and get my case approved after another week.
Now I have no job because I was unable to show up for 3 weeks...
This morning a Federal Investigator rings my doorbell. She says my case is under review and she verbally verifies all this information I just gave to the workers, says she is going to investigate my entire case and get back to me. I ask what triggered this and she starts going into well sometimes they are random, sometimes a case worker sees something... I stopped her and asked, yes but why mine and she looks at her paperwork and is finally truthful and says "Because you told your worker you do not file income tax."
Nice.
So that's my story so far. I'm not sure what is going to happen with this 'investigation, but I'll keep you all posted. Feel free to forward this on to anyone and if you or anyone has any thoughts or advise, feel free to contact me via email.
Sincerely,
Ivy.
I do agree that taking welfare is not stealing. Like it or not, the gov't takes some of our earnings and in part uses the money for social welfare programs. Sadly, these programs are abused by many and the people who truly need the assistance often go without.
I think that we can all agree that when you get active against the government, the government will eventually try and get active against you.
For some of us that means determining an "acceptable" level of risk.
For some of us that means making sure that they have very little / nothing to hold over our heads.
For some of us that means taking government charges against a liberty activist with a grain (or two) of salt.
I want to make it perfectly clear where I stand on this issue. I have NOTHING to do with NFTY. That's all Russell. :)
Quote from: Kat Kanning on June 10, 2009, 04:06 PM NHFT
I want to make it perfectly clear where I stand on this issue. I have NOTHING to do with NFTY. That's all Russell. :)
First thing that came to mind was the Jewish youth group from NFTY (http://www.nfty.org)!?!?!?!? But I finally got it.
Updates on the bail and custody hearings (http://www.nhclog.org/taxonomy/term/54).
Quote from: Radical and Stuff on June 10, 2009, 01:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 10:08 AM NHFT
OK, let me clarify...yes you are never exempt from taxes. I understand that. She never worked on the books, and therefore never paid state/local taxes, she never filed federal taxes (according to her). So she in essence was stealing from all who did. That was my point.
I don't even know if Ivy took welfare. But taking welfare isn't stealing.
Right! It's getting someone else to steal for you.
Quote from: anthonybpugh on June 10, 2009, 01:23 PM NHFT
Ivy attempted to take something which she did not own. She had no right to it. She did nothing to earn it. I am not going to grieve for the alleged victim in this case but the facts remain, she attempted to use deceit in order to gain something which wasn't hers.
Or are you trying to suggest that being a Welfare Queen in somehow justifiable libertarian activism?
:clap: Thank you
Someone who sticks a weapon in your face an attempts to rob you at least runs some sort of personal risk. That is a notch higher than using a middleman.
I don't have to like anything about Ivy's past in order to hate that she's in jail.
I don't have to excuse what Bill did in his previous marriage, to understand his anger at betrayal.
I don't have to hate Peter's grandparents (for all I know, they're lovely people) to hate that they showed up with police and a court order to take Peter from Bill with no apparent input from Ivy.
I could outright hate Ivy and Bill and never trust them in any personal dealings, but I still wouldn't want the government to throw either of them in jail.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 10, 2009, 06:44 PM NHFT
Right! It's getting someone else to steal for you.
very much this
Quote from: KBCraig on June 10, 2009, 07:17 PM NHFT
I don't have to like anything about Ivy's past in order to hate that she's in jail.
I don't have to excuse what Bill did in his previous marriage, to understand his anger at betrayal.
I don't have to hate Peter's grandparents (for all I know, they're lovely people) to hate that they showed up with police and a court order to take Peter from Bill with no apparent input from Ivy.
I could outright hate Ivy and Bill and never trust them in any personal dealings, but I still wouldn't want the government to throw either of them in jail.
Right on!
Every morning I wake up, I try to move forward to a new day. Being a human with a memory, it's sometimes difficult not to remember the grudge I held the day before. But that grudge does me no good today. In fact it destroys me a little bit. So I try to ignore it and prepare the challenges of the new day.
Some people can't let go for whatever reason. If that works for them, then that's their choice. I'd rather not be around that poison.
But to celebrate someone's incarceration, for whatever reason, is just stoking the fires of negative energy. I try to avoid that.
Oh, Christ! I just previewed and read that new-age mumbo jumbo. Perhaps I need more beer. Manchester Brewing beer. Drink more beer. Manchester Brewing (http://manchesterbrewing.com). But I was serious about poison. Try to avoid it in order to be happy.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 09:27 AM NHFT
Sorry - I see stealing - in any form - as wrong. Two wrongs don;t make a right.
But do you consider it "stealing" to take back something that was stolen
from you?
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 09:27 AM NHFT
And you're still stuck on Guinta coming to the MVP meeting and not endorsing RP, or what?
Rob was the one upset about the Ron Paul endorsement, not me. I'm thinking more of Guinta's pro–"public safety" campaign stance, his raising the police budget by 4% while reducing everything
else, and his attacks on that pro-decrim State Rep. Endorsing Guiliani, of all candidates (the police-statist mayor from New York), was just the clincher.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 09:27 AM NHFT
And, no, I won't be bringing Gatsas (who by the way for those who don't know, got an A+ rating from the NHLA in '08, and the highest grade of an A (84%) in '07) to any MVP meeting anytime soon....there's nothing positive to come from it.
The NHLA ratings for the last year are widely known to be skewed in favor of Republicans at this point. We had far too few bills last year, and far too many were Republican-specific issues. We're working on making that less likely to happen this year.
Last year, wasn't that the year Gatsas attached that underhanded Real-ID rider to a completely unrelated bill? Wasn't he among the few (or the only?) Republicans who refused to sign the spending pledge and spending cap petition?
But, I'm not going to turn this thread into a debate about politicians. We can use the NHLA forum for that if you'd like.
Quote from: Lactivist on June 10, 2009, 09:35 AM NHFT
I also have no problem with getting back taxes you paid (thus get as much back from the IRS). HOWEVER, Sharon was VERY public with the fact that she didn't pay taxes....so again she was knowingly and willingly taking from other people.
Wrong. From the NH Tea Party thread (https://www.nhteaparty.org/index.php/topic,217.msg1702.html#msg1702):—
Quoteshe pays state taxes, and its the feds who are sticking their noses in her life, becase she showed no record of paying fed taxes, that is what threw up the flag.
Maybe some who aren't on nhteaparty might want to read the whole thread. I'm going to attempt to attach it as a PDF file.....
Thanks for dredging that one up Jeremy!
Quote from: sandm000 on June 10, 2009, 09:21 AM NHFT
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0 (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=10057.0) Just in case you forgot, she was trying keep her RI benefits (like you could forget). Why have you been trumpeting her cause from the beginning?
I haven't been. In the parallel thread on this topic over on NH Tea Party, a day before I posted here in support of Ivy's case, I posted this comment (https://www.nhteaparty.org/index.php/topic,217.msg1688.html#msg1688):—
QuoteIf she believes people ought not pay taxes and has stopped paying them herself, why is she receiving money from those who still are? Perhaps some Free Staters could help her take care of her kids so she needn't receive such assistance.
Beth's elucidation of Ivy's situation convinced me to ultimately believe what I said in the thread on this forum, to wit:—
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on August 06, 2007, 09:25 PM NHFT
Note that it's the feds trying to take away her state assistance, by the way. Even if you don't agree that she should be on it, or that it should even exist, the feds should have no right to interfere in state-level social assistance programs.
As the situation progressed (you need to read both threads), some of us convinced Ivy to move up here and get herself off of welfare; we'd try to help her out of the hole she was in. I remember thinking of it as a sort of freestater charity case, and how it would set a good example of how free market assistance could be made to work.
I'm not digging up all the old threads in order to find proof, but I haven't always supported Ivy in everything she's done, either. When she had a blow-up with an ex-boyfriend, Rob, I took Rob's side at first: I told her I thought she was overreacting. (I actually got yelled at up and down for that, by the way. Most people jumped to the conclusion that a woman accusing her boyfriend of domestic violence is untouchable—except me.) Based on my own observation of Rob's behavior, I eventually came to believe that Ivy had been right, but then when I saw how the restraining order that she'd gotten against him prevented us from trying to make right the situation, I then saw that that had also been a mistake. Fun mess. The situation was ultimately resolved via private mediation: Score
two for free market solutions.
When I
did start defending Ivy was when I started seeing people attacking her for, from a libertarian perspective, wholly unjustified reasons. I remember David Bradley making an incredibly condescending comment about how she's trouble because she'd been arrested a few times. (Of course, David also liked to mock Russell and Kat for their activism and arrests, so perhaps he wasn't singling her out like so many others seem to do. Whatever.)
The second thing I remember was when Tammy decided to say that Ivy's behavior at a party—her and a friend of hers putting on a jello-wrestling show—was "denigrating to women." Sorry, Tammy, but criticizing someone for freely engaging in harmless, voluntary activity, because you're worried about how it's going to make some nebulous
class of people look, is one of the most anti-libertarian sentiments I can imagine from someone (short of advocating outright aggression). I remember taking Tammy to task for this extensively on one of the forums, and it was from this point onward that I started to dislike Tammy and her attitudes.
Particularly unfortunate for Ivy's detractors, this just so happens to be one of my hotbutton issues:
Do not attack someone for their sexuality unless you want to make a permanent enemy of me. [For those who don't know, my first bit of political activism after moving was spearheading an effort to prevent sex offender residency restrictions from coming to Manchester. I'd gotten involved in that after reading about how some poor woman had a bunch of peasants-with-pitchforks show up on her doorstep and light her stoop on fire, all because she was an RSO. I've subsequently gotten involved in supporting the same-sex marriage movement, the polyamory discussion group that MaineShark runs, and opposing HB474 this year, a bill that would've incidentally outlawed consensual BDSM relationships.]
So, thenceforth, whenever I saw people going after Ivy on the forum, I nearly always piped up in Ivy's defense, because nearly all of the things that Ivy's detractors would go after her for seemed to revolve around her lifestyle choices.
And, I wasn't even really friends with Ivy—I just considered her another freestater acquaintance—until the blow-up on the forum about Bill and Kate. Virtually everyone tried to blame Ivy for the situation, kicking her off the forum, banning her from Murphy's, and so on. So, I and a few of her other friends did what we could to support her, having a party for her at her house a few days after the attack thread happened (St. Patrick's Day—Murphy's probably lost about $200 in sales by joining the wrong side in that drama), and going to an enormous amount of effort to straighten things out behind the scenes with the people who tried to cut her off from the movement.
I'm not going to defend everything Ivy does. She doesn't think things out completely before doing them, she's not particularly good at handling money, and she can be pretty irresponsible at times. But as I understand it, she has some pretty serious emotional/psychological issues stemming from past abusive relationships and drug addiction. She isn't some sort of professional con-artist or plotting sociopath or whatever. I understand what's going on with her, and—forgive me for being blunt and bringing emotion into an otherwise rationally written-out post—all of you who've gone after Ivy like she's some kind of con-artist/sociopath are a bunch of cruel, heartless bastards.
To Tammy, for posting that you find it "entertaining" that a pregnant woman has been locked in jail for a week now, without her medication, away from her husband and child, who's now been stolen by the State ("for his own best interest," of course)—you can burn in Hell.
You know... ironically enough, I'd probably be less supportive of Ivy if so many people didn't go after her for so many frivolous reasons. I'd probably be a lot more critical of the few things she's done
wrong if I didn't constantly have to find myself defending her against the slings and arrows of the prudes and sanctimonious around here. So there you have it.
As for the welfare stuff, that was two years ago and Ivy has only
since become a libertarian, and she still seems to be learning. I don't think there's a single person here who can claim to have been a morally-upright libertarian their entire life. Go ahead, cast the first stone if you can. I went through a socialist phase myself between about 2000 and 2003—I've been "pro-liberty" ever since I can remember (since I was about 13 or 14), but I was convinced for a few years that the path toward personal and social freedoms lay in European-style social democracy or what's termed "libertarian socialism." Most other freestaters I know are in the same boat: They may be anarchists now, but they weren't... one, two, five, ten years ago. So I'm not going to hold Ivy's
having been on welfare against her—especially when she told me recently, that, due to her current pregnancy, she was
offered money by the State, and she turned it down.
ny2nh, tammy, tamster the hamster, whoever you are. ive kept my mouth shut about the way you have come off in this and some other threads, but holy crap ... you are a complete douche.
had to be said. kthxbai.
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:23 PM NHFT
To Tammy, for posting that you find it "entertaining" that a pregnant woman has been locked in jail for a week now, without her medication, away from her husband and child, who's now been stolen by the State ("for his own best interest," of course)—you can burn in Hell.
There you go again Jeremy, twisting people's words. The entertaining part is following the veriuos threads on the topic. Show me where I said it was entertaining that a pregnant woman is in jail?
And what meds does she need that they won't let her have? That sounds bogus.
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 08:34 PM NHFT
ny2nh, tammy, tamster the hamster, whoever you are. ive kept my mouth shut about the way you have come off in this and some other threads, but holy crap ... you are a complete douche.
had to be said. kthxbai.
oooo....that hurt. ::)
Don't know you, don't care what you think of me. Seriously.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 08:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 08:34 PM NHFT
ny2nh, tammy, tamster the hamster, whoever you are. ive kept my mouth shut about the way you have come off in this and some other threads, but holy crap ... you are a complete douche.
had to be said. kthxbai.
oooo....that hurt. ::)
Don't know you, don't care what you think of me. Seriously.
sorry if that hurt. im guessing you are being sarcastic. whatever. sorry i dont sugar coat things. it is what i think of you because it is how you come across. you are wallowing in someone elses misery like a pig in shit gloating about the whole ordeal and rubbing salt in open wounds. you have admitted to watching it because it entertains you. someone in jail and suffering entertains you? pretty shitty if you ask me. im sure im not alone on my feelings about you.
Quote from: KBCraig on June 10, 2009, 07:17 PM NHFT
I don't have to like anything about Ivy's past in order to hate that she's in jail.
I don't have to excuse what Bill did in his previous marriage, to understand his anger at betrayal.
I don't have to hate Peter's grandparents (for all I know, they're lovely people) to hate that they showed up with police and a court order to take Peter from Bill with no apparent input from Ivy.
I could outright hate Ivy and Bill and never trust them in any personal dealings, but I still wouldn't want the government to throw either of them in jail.
YES! My feelings as well....
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 08:38 PM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on June 10, 2009, 08:23 PM NHFT
To Tammy, for posting that you find it "entertaining" that a pregnant woman has been locked in jail for a week now, without her medication, away from her husband and child, who's now been stolen by the State ("for his own best interest," of course)—you can burn in Hell.
There you go again Jeremy, twisting people's words. The entertaining part is following the veriuos threads on the topic. Show me where I said it was entertaining that a pregnant woman is in jail?
And what meds does she need that they won't let her have? That sounds bogus.
are you fucking kidding me?
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 06:39 AM NHFT
I am among many who are following this chapter of Ivy-drama - because, well, it is actually a little entertaining.
happy now? those are your words. or was it one of your other personalities? maybe you forgot to switch handles when you posted that? god you are starting to annoy me now. lol
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 08:49 PM NHFTsorry i dont sugar coat things.
Nor do I. Obviously.
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 08:49 PM NHFT
you are wallowing in someone elses misery like a pig in shit gloating about the whole ordeal and rubbing salt in open wounds. you have admitted to watching it because it entertains you. someone in jail and suffering entertains you? pretty shitty if you ask me.
Trust me, I am far from the only person getting a little entertainment out of these forums the past few days. That is not the same as saying it is entertaining to know someone is in jail, etc. I think that is what some of you want to see - so that is what you see.
I often find myself posting to clarify what someone else had misunderstood or twisted to sound differently. And there is a part of me that figures the more someone knows about a situation, the better. People can take everyone's posts for whatever they want. Some will read mine and decide without ever meeting me that they don't like me. That's fine. Some will read what I post and send me private messgaes saying they wanted to say the exact same thing. That's fine, too.
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 08:49 PM NHFT
im sure im not alone on my feelings about you.
I'm sure you're not either. I'm OK with that.
ok so first you are entertained then you arent now you are again ... make your mind up.
you keep talking about all these "others" that are watching and laughing and entertained but yet ... hmm ... no one knows who they are, they dont say anything, and the only person who seems to know about them is you. So I guess you are the mouthpiece eh?
You know, really ... if you dont have anything constructive or helpful to say why dont you just go away already. or ... create another handle and post as "someone else" to back yourself up ... again.
maybe you should go back to watching jerry springer for your "entertainment" fill.
i really should have stuck with "dont feed the trolls" and ill be doing that from now on in regards to you. i think you just like the engagement.
cheers
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 09:06 PM NHFT
you keep talking about all these "others" that are watching and laughing and entertained but yet ... hmm ... no one knows who they are, they dont say anything, and the only person who seems to know about them is you. So I guess you are the mouthpiece eh?
Right now there are 56 guests on the forum.....and a bunch of them...and other logged in users....are viewing this thread as we type. Just because some opt to not log in or post, doesn't mean they don't agree with someone. It's not that "No one" knows who they are, you just don't happen to know who they are. Just like I don't know how many people are reading this and thinking wow, what a bitch.I'm not about to list names of people to prove a point to you. Sorry.
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 09:06 PM NHFT
You know, really ... if you dont have anything constructive or helpful to say why dont you just go away already. or ... create another handle and post as "someone else" to back yourself up ... again.
I actually only have 1 user name - the same one I have had all along. Maybe others create multiple users to be their own rah-rah crowd, but now me.
And, this is a discussion forum....I'm just discussing. If you only want to discuss with people who agree with you. Whatever...ignore me....like I said, I really don't care.
Thanks Jraxis, I am not sure any of this focus helps a freedom agenda, I am amazed at how much content here is about people and not ideas....
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 08:54 PM NHFT
are you fucking kidding me?
No, I am quite serious. She's pregnant - vitamins maybe, meds, not so much. Just curious. If they are denying her a prescription med that she should be taking, I would be surprised.
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 08:54 PM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 06:39 AM NHFT
I am among many who are following this chapter of Ivy-drama - because, well, it is actually a little entertaining.
happy now? those are your words. or was it one of your other personalities? maybe you forgot to switch handles when you posted that? god you are starting to annoy me now. lol
Like I said - I only have one handle - always have.
And, again, I said following the drama was entertaining....never said I was entertained by someone being jailed. Heck, you're following it, too. Why is that?
Lots of people in jail complain about being denied prescription meds. Ed and Elaine Brown, for example.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 09:19 PM NHFT
blah blah blah blah instigate blah blah sarcasm blah blah blah make stuff up blah blah blah
just in case you were wondering what her future posts will be like ...
:icon_pirat:
I've had about enough of ny2nh. I've hit the ignore button for her.
..........
Quote from: PattyLee loves dogs on June 10, 2009, 09:19 PM NHFT
Thanks Jraxis, I am not sure any of this focus helps a freedom agenda, I am amazed at how much content here is about people and not ideas....
but this forum is full of real people doing real things
Quote from: Kat Kanning on June 10, 2009, 09:22 PM NHFT
Lots of people in jail complain about being denied prescription meds. Ed and Elaine Brown, for example.
Yep. It's quite common.
Quote from: RevDebbie on June 10, 2009, 09:25 PM NHFT
I've had about enough of ny2nh. I've hit the ignore button for her.
it's not often her posts pop up here. I don't disagree with your choice however Reverend.
QuoteSome will read what I post and send me private messgaes saying they wanted to say the exact same thing. That's fine, too.
now that is scary shit.
Quote from: KBCraig on June 10, 2009, 07:17 PM NHFT
I don't have to like anything about Ivy's past in order to hate that she's in jail.
I don't have to excuse what Bill did in his previous marriage, to understand his anger at betrayal.
I don't have to hate Peter's grandparents (for all I know, they're lovely people) to hate that they showed up with police and a court order to take Peter from Bill with no apparent input from Ivy.
I could outright hate Ivy and Bill and never trust them in any personal dealings, but I still wouldn't want the government to throw either of them in jail.
Interesting, as I don't have to like anything about Ivy's past actions to hate that she stole from other people. There is no personal vendetta for me, it is simply my libertarian stance on personal responsibility and government assistance that are rubbed the wrong way by this. I don't have to hate Ivy/Bill or mistrust them to see that a child being taken into custody by loving family is the best place for him. I may not agree with the police situation but I know that things are occurring as they need to be. I.e. I'm glad a child is safe and in a loving environment, I'm glad that someone is being confronted about her lack of personal responsibility for herself and her child and for stealing, whether or not her name is Ivy.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 10, 2009, 08:22 PM NHFT
Maybe some who aren't on nhteaparty might want to read the whole thread. I'm going to attempt to attach it as a PDF file.....
Ivy wrote:
QuoteI can't recall ever saying I did not file my federal tax return. I do, and for the exact
reason that Error points out: the credits the IRS has in place (EIC, Child Tax Credit,
Hope and Lifetime Learning Credit, Additional Child Tax Credit, etc.) not only leaves me
with zero tax liability, but gives me a return - money I can certainly use in my current
situation. The issue is: I did not claim my self-employment income (i.e. cash earned),
only my reported income (i.e. 1099's, W-2's, etc.).
:o
I rather not pay to house Ivy in prison. She is not a threat and has not harmed anyone. Whatever monies she has taken from the State I would rather see her give back voluntarily than be locked up. Or I would rather just not pay to keep a non violent person in a cage.
How does locking Ivy up for a month or two help or aid anyone?
Does the alleged crime fit the punishment?
Taking a child into police custody is traumatizing to say the least. Horrible for any liberty loving peeps to approve of that. If I didn't want my child with my parents it would be for good reason and should be respected. Ivy's choice to keep her son at home with his step father should be respected as well.
Just because someone believes in freedom and liberty doesn't make them perfect. We have all made mistakes in our lives and we learn as we go. I've learned so much the past 4 years personally. I think people can get real arrogant on this forum and really judgmental. Doesn't make for nice neighbors to say the least.
Perhaps Ivy did things in the past she would not do again? I don't know but I do see a lot of great efforts from her and I like to give people the benefit of the doubt.
but again my main point is
How does locking Ivy up for a month or two help or aid anyone?
Quote from: leetninja on June 10, 2009, 09:06 PM NHFT
ok so first you are entertained then you arent now you are again ... make your mind up.
you keep talking about all these "others" that are watching and laughing and entertained but yet ... hmm ... no one knows who they are, they dont say anything, and the only person who seems to know about them is you. So I guess you are the mouthpiece eh?
You know, really ... if you dont have anything constructive or helpful to say why dont you just go away already. or ... create another handle and post as "someone else" to back yourself up ... again.
maybe you should go back to watching jerry springer for your "entertainment" fill.
i really should have stuck with "dont feed the trolls" and ill be doing that from now on in regards to you. i think you just like the engagement.
cheers
You're pretty sanctimonious for someone who has been asked repeatedly to leave the forum by the owners.
Quote from: lastlady on June 11, 2009, 11:57 AM NHFT
Taking a child into police custody is traumatizing to say the least. Horrible for any liberty loving peeps to approve of that.
According to an earlier thread, the child was taken by the grandparents, and Bill is trying to use the system to get him back, which may be tricky, considering he eschewed the system when it came to the marriage.
I'm confused. Doesn't Ivy have two children???
Quote from: LordBaltimore on June 11, 2009, 12:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: lastlady on June 11, 2009, 11:57 AM NHFT
Taking a child into police custody is traumatizing to say the least. Horrible for any liberty loving peeps to approve of that.
According to an earlier thread, the child was taken by the grandparents, and Bill is trying to use the system to get him back, which may be tricky, considering he eschewed the system when it came to the marriage.
I'm confused. Doesn't Ivy have two children???
Oh well I am mistaken then. I believe Ivy has a daughter who I think is around 11 years old, I think she lives with her father and has visitation with Ivy.
Quote from: LordBaltimore on June 11, 2009, 12:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: lastlady on June 11, 2009, 11:57 AM NHFT
Taking a child into police custody is traumatizing to say the least. Horrible for any liberty loving peeps to approve of that.
According to an earlier thread, the child was taken by the grandparents, and Bill is trying to use the system to get him back, which may be tricky, considering he eschewed the system when it came to the marriage.
I'm confused. Doesn't Ivy have two children???
Ivy has Peter who I believe is 3 and Caroline who is probably around 7 now. From what I recall, Caroline lived with Ivy and Rob for a while - and then the father ended up with custody of her.
According to Jeremy's info, Ivy's parents took custody of Peter, not the police, so it was hardly traumatizing for him. I don;t see why it is bad for me to think that Peter is better off with his family in RI where he has his own bed, etc. vs. living in the basement of the restaurant with Bill - who admittedly is having a hard time juggling the business, court docs/hearings and running the restaurant.
Quote from: lastlady on June 11, 2009, 11:57 AM NHFT
I rather not pay to house Ivy in prison. She is not a threat and has not harmed anyone. Whatever monies she has taken from the State I would rather see her give back voluntarily than be locked up. Or I would rather just not pay to keep a non violent person in a cage.
How does locking Ivy up for a month or two help or aid anyone?
Does the alleged crime fit the punishment?
I guess I would agree with you - that not justice to the taxpayers of Rhode Island is served by locking Ivy up. Those taxpayers would be better off if restitution was made - or better yet if Ivy had not defrauded them in the first place. Remember, while she is charged with defrauding the state, ultimately it is the tax[payers money that was stolen. I know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
So - if there was no punishment, what would stop everyone from committing fraud? She likely knew she was not reporting income that would have effected her eligibility of benefits - yet she did it anyway. After moving to NH and obtaining a job and childcare, she could have offered to pay back the benefits she obtained fraudulently - she did not. Eventually it all caught up with her and what sounds on the surface like an easy solution (restitution) - how do we know that 1. she will follow through on any restitution arrangement since she has repeatedly failed to appear both here in NH and RI, and 2. ow does that protect the taxpayers from avoiding further fraud situations.
It would be nice to think that we should have no punishment for any non-violent crimes and that people will just do the right thing.....but if they had just done the right thing in the first place, then they wouldn't find themselves in jail anyway. We don't live in a utopian world, we live in reality where people do make bad decisions whether intentionally or not.
People do change. I just don't see that with Ivy. I might just be because of my interactions with her and her interactions with good friends of mine, but I see the same exact person that I met a couple of years ago. Her surroundings have changed, the rest of the players may have changed, but she's still the same old Sharon.
Yeah they call me yeah Hot n Nasty
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
charged with defrauding the state, ultimately it is the taxpayers money that was stolen. I know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
This is just plain silly. The state took it, it's gone, it's not your money anymore!
When Tony Soprano drops a grand or three and you pick it up, wouldn't you be mightily surprised if ordinary victims of his protection racket, tortures & extortion came running after you yelling "Stop defrauding the great man!"
I'd say that's masochistic at best.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
I know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
As a taxpayer, your money is already stolen.
Ivy has been released.
that's great! wow three free staters released within days of each other. I like it a lot! :D
Quote from: KBCraig on June 11, 2009, 01:59 PM NHFTQuote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFTI know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
As a taxpayer, your money is already stolen.
That's okay. She got schools for other folks' kids, and a dog park. It's okay to take tax money for those purposes. Not for feeding kids, though - feeding kids is a bad thing to use tax money for!
(welfare offends me, but blatant hypocrisy offends me more)
Joe
Details?
Yay! Thanks for the happy news, SB!
Yay! Those psychopaths have released another one of their hostages!
So, is there a trial coming up or is she in the clear for good?
Quote from: Atlas on June 11, 2009, 04:39 PM NHFTSo, is there a trial coming up or is she in the clear for good?
According to the Porc411 call, she's out on $500 bail, so that would mean there's still at least one trial coming up (I'm presuming the call would have mentioned if any of the charges were dropped, so I would assume that all charges are still pending).
Joe
Quote from: RevDebbie on June 11, 2009, 05:19 PM NHFT
Who's Bob?
(http://www.subgenius.com/bigfist/pics6/funway/JR-BOB-DOBBS.jpg)
The guy in the picture.
So why does Bob rock? Is he the one who posted bail for Ivy, or what? I'm in NJ, so you've got to give me more details on these things. :)
Quote from: MaineShark on June 11, 2009, 03:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on June 11, 2009, 01:59 PM NHFTQuote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFTI know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
As a taxpayer, your money is already stolen.
That's okay. She got schools for other folks' kids, and a dog park. It's okay to take tax money for those purposes. Not for feeding kids, though - feeding kids is a bad thing to use tax money for!
(welfare offends me, but blatant hypocrisy offends me more)
Joe
When have I ever said I was OK with paying for public education for everyone's kids? And, no, we don;t have a dog park....and what we want to build is on existing city owned land that couldn't be used for anything else....with no cost to the taxpayers. But, I'm not surprised that you twisted my words........again.
So - you're saying that because you disagree with taxpayers' funding public schools, that justifies someone stealing from the state? It's one thing to get assistance feeding your kids - it's another to lie about how much you earn in order to get that assistance. And how much lying is acceptable? Can someone make $200/wk and not report it? $500/wk? Hell, $2,500/wk? After all. it's only the taxpayers money they're stealing...so why put a limit on it at all?
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 06:50 PM NHFTWhen have I ever said I was OK with paying for public education for everyone's kids?
You've been quoted saying that, before, and I'm not going to bother doing it again. You can state for the record, here, that you are opposed to all public education, if you like. You support enough other government programs (police, etc.) that it doesn't matter - you're still a hypocrite.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 06:50 PM NHFTAnd, no, we don;t have a dog park....and what we want to build is on existing city owned land that couldn't be used for anything else....with no cost to the taxpayers.
Oh, so as long as the funds were stolen a while ago, it's okay?
How long ago did the funds need to be stolen to get that land, to make it okay to use stolen property?
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 06:50 PM NHFTSo - you're saying that because you disagree with taxpayers' funding public schools, that justifies someone stealing from the state? It's one thing to get assistance feeding your kids - it's another to lie about how much you earn in order to get that assistance. And how much lying is acceptable? Can someone make $200/wk and not report it? $500/wk? Hell, $2,500/wk? After all. it's only the taxpayers money they're stealing...so why put a limit on it at all?
I didn't say anything about it being justified. I just said I don't like hypocrites.
I don't support taxing others for my pet projects, so I'm in a position to criticize others for supporting that.
You support taxation, when it pays for things you want, so criticizing others when they take tax money for things they support is pure hypocrisy.
Joe
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 11, 2009, 06:45 PM NHFT
The guy in the picture.
Now that I think of it he has a Gotee, wears a Tom-O-Shanter, and smokes a curved, Meerschaum pipe.
Quote from: Silent_Bob on June 11, 2009, 02:36 PM NHFT
Ivy has been released.
this Bob. ^
Thanks for the info. :)
Quote from: MaineShark on June 11, 2009, 06:55 PM NHFT
Joe
Sorry, Joe, I made the mistake of thinking for a split second that I could have an actual conversation based on reality and not the fantasy life you want to think exists...and won't work to try and obtain. I guess it's just easier to say it's all fucked up so I'm going to just ignore it and pretend things are different than it is to actually do something credible to change it so that it's not so fucked up any more.
You're more interested in just calling me a hypocrite or a statist or a bigot or a homophobe or whatever you name-calling word of the day is.
What was I thinking.....
Waaaaaah!
that is all
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 08:22 PM NHFTSorry, Joe, I made the mistake of thinking for a split second that I could have an actual conversation based on reality and not the fantasy life you want to think exists...and won't work to try and obtain. I guess it's just easier to say it's all fucked up so I'm going to just ignore it and pretend things are different than it is to actually do something credible to change it so that it's not so fucked up any more.
You're more interested in just calling me a hypocrite or a statist or a bigot or a homophobe or whatever you name-calling word of the day is.
What was I thinking.....
I'll take that as your way of saying, "why, yes, I am a complete and utter hypocrite, and I enjoy it immensely."
There's no way to deny it, of course. You repeatedly support the use of tax money, when it's one of
your pet causes. You only complain when someone uses tax money for something
you don't support. That makes you a hypocrite.
The fact that I
enjoy ripping hypocrites apart publicly doesn't change that fact.
Joe
Quote from: Sovereign Curtis on June 11, 2009, 08:31 PM NHFT
Waaaaaah!
that is all
Hey man! I didn't know you were on this forum. Welcome to the forum! I hope to meet you soon - in NH.
Quote from: MaineShark on June 11, 2009, 08:34 PM NHFT
I'll take that as your way of saying, "why, yes, I am a complete and utter hypocrite, and I enjoy it immensely."
i have to agree with joe, that does seem to be what you have been saying quite often. pretty much settles it.
Quote from: MaineShark on June 11, 2009, 08:34 PM NHFT
There's no way to deny it, of course. You repeatedly support the use of tax money, when it's one of your pet causes. You only complain when someone uses tax money for something you don't support. That makes you a hypocrite.
The fact that I enjoy ripping hypocrites apart publicly doesn't change that fact.
Joe
I enjoy it when you do that too!
Ivy released on bail (http://www.nhclog.org/node/14).
Just got home; will update with details about the bail reconsideration hearing, with video, some time tomorrow. Long story short, the damned arraignment judge couldn't read the extradition RSAs concerning bailable offenses and wasted a week of Ivy's life. Will update with details tomorrow. For now, I'm finally getting some sleep...
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
... if Ivy had not defrauded them in the first place.
Any proof of this? No? Didn't think so. Charges mean next to nothing. Innocent until proven guilty. Remember? Proven.
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
but she's still the same old Sharon.
These charges are from incidents that allegedly happened years ago. When is the last time you spoke to or interacted with her?
Quote from: _mikey_ on June 11, 2009, 01:52 PM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
charged with defrauding the state, ultimately it is the taxpayers money that was stolen. I know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
This is just plain silly. The state took it, it's gone, it's not your money anymore!
When Tony Soprano drops a grand or three and you pick it up, wouldn't you be mightily surprised if ordinary victims of his protection racket, tortures & extortion came running after you yelling "Stop defrauding the great man!"
I'd say that's masochistic at best.
+1
Oh, and about stealing from the state...
RAGNAR DANNESKJOLD!
Quote from: Keyser Soce on June 12, 2009, 02:13 AM NHFT
Oh, and about stealing from the state...
RAGNAR DANNESKJOLD!
Right on, Keyser!
Quote from: lastlady on June 11, 2009, 11:57 AM NHFT
How does locking Ivy up for a month or two help or aid anyone?
doesn't help me
Quote from: _mikey_ on June 11, 2009, 01:52 PM NHFT
When Tony Soprano drops a grand or three and you pick it up, wouldn't you be mightily surprised if ordinary victims of his protection racket, tortures & extortion came running after you yelling "Stop defrauding the great man!"
exactly ... I guess it depends on how you look at the government ....
that you are part of it, or it represents you .....
or that it is a thugs who steals from you
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 08:22 PM NHFT
Sorry, Joe, I made the mistake of thinking for a split second that I could have an actual conversation based on reality and not the fantasy life you want to think exists...
I like the fantasy life that Joe wants :)
ya have to have a goal ... why not make it a grand one
Quote from: Keyser Soce on June 12, 2009, 02:13 AM NHFT
Quote from: _mikey_ on June 11, 2009, 01:52 PM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
charged with defrauding the state, ultimately it is the taxpayers money that was stolen. I know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
This is just plain silly. The state took it, it's gone, it's not your money anymore!
When Tony Soprano drops a grand or three and you pick it up, wouldn't you be mightily surprised if ordinary victims of his protection racket, tortures & extortion came running after you yelling "Stop defrauding the great man!"
I'd say that's masochistic at best.
+1
Oh, and about stealing from the state...
RAGNAR DANNESKJOLD!
Nice try ;D
Danneskjold liberated wealth and returned it, in specific amounts, to the people who earned it. Not that it is out of the realm of possibilities that one could tap a social welfare agency for exactly the amount that he or she paid into it over their lives.
I intend to try getting all of my social security payments back. Of course it will be in seriously inflated dollars.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 12, 2009, 07:04 AM NHFT
Quote from: Keyser Soce on June 12, 2009, 02:13 AM NHFT
Quote from: _mikey_ on June 11, 2009, 01:52 PM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
charged with defrauding the state, ultimately it is the taxpayers money that was stolen. I know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
This is just plain silly. The state took it, it's gone, it's not your money anymore!
When Tony Soprano drops a grand or three and you pick it up, wouldn't you be mightily surprised if ordinary victims of his protection racket, tortures & extortion came running after you yelling "Stop defrauding the great man!"
I'd say that's masochistic at best.
+1
Oh, and about stealing from the state...
RAGNAR DANNESKJOLD!
Nice try ;D
Danneskjold liberated wealth and returned it, in specific amounts, to the people who earned it. Not that it is out of the realm of possibilities that one could tap a social welfare agency for exactly the amount that he or she paid into it over their lives.
I intend to try getting all of my social security payments back. Of course it will be in seriously inflated dollars.
+1 for
correctly referencing Ayn Rand. Hopefully, there's a crusty Russian lady with a cigarette dangling from her corpsified mouth, who can stop spinning furiously in her grave...
yerp. I think I've been registered on here since Oct of 2007 (I think, maybe a different name, NC2NH4RP comes to mind, or something like it, anyway), havent posted much (obviously), but I read this whole damn thread, and had the over powering desire to go "Waaaaah"
I found Ivy to be a most delightful and enjoyable person, while I was in NH. Quick to smile, easy to talk to, always willing to give a hug.
So she has some skeletons in her closet, who doesnt? And she may desire a form of relationship most do not consider, so what? You ("you" being everyone who knows her, and has commented) are aware of her predilections, therefore it is up to you to make allowances, or not, whatever. But to sit online and whine about someones past behavior, behavior which has NO bearing or impact on your life (you know who I'm talking to now), is pretty fucking pathetic. I have to wonder, just how much Pro-Liberty activism you participate in, in between your "Holier than thou" internet trolling? (look at me! pissing off porcs before I even get to NH!)
Anyway, I for one think Ivy is a wonderful person, and I look forward to seeing her smile and getting a big hug if I can make it up for PorcFest (which brings me to me real point for posting...I need ride! Anybody know anybody coming up to PorcFest from the South? North Carolina, South Carolina or Georgia?)
shit, this post needs a rawkin picture, how do I post pictures?
(http://i253.photobucket.com/albums/hh68/FreeRevolutionist/biglebowski.gif)
If you are coming from GA or SC it might be cheaper to fly up. Southwest Airlines is in Manchester, NH. Then you could get a ride from there on Thursday night.
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=17995.0
If you know some folks in the DC area, lots of folks are driving up from there.
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=18122.0
Quote from: KBCraig on June 11, 2009, 01:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: ny2nh on June 11, 2009, 12:52 PM NHFT
I know as a taxpayer I don't want my money stolen.
As a taxpayer, your money is already stolen.
To be fair future thefts are gauged on past performances...
The government knows its going to take more, just needs to debate how much more.
Quote from: Radical and Stuff on June 12, 2009, 05:43 PM NHFT
If you are coming from GA or SC it might be cheaper to fly up. Southwest Airlines is in Manchester, NH. Then you could get a ride from there on Thursday night.
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=17995.0
If you know some folks in the DC area, lots of folks are driving up from there.
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=18122.0
I'm in southeastern NC. People from GA and SC may just drive right past me on their way up, thats why I was asking for people from there.
I understand about the Southwest option, but I'm looking to move up, and I'd like to have more than two pieces of luggage make the move with me.
i moved on a southwest air flight
btw ... my name is not on any tsa list, so use mine if you are worried you are on a no fly list :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on June 14, 2009, 02:27 PM NHFT
i moved on a southwest air flight
btw ... my name is not on any tsa list, so use mine if you are worried you are on a no fly list :)
Ha! Were I able to do that, I might consider it. I'm very interested to know if I'm on the no fly list, but I dont want to discover this information by being barred from flying to NH. Nor do I wish to patron the airlines, even southwest, mainly due to the experience at the terminal. That and Southwest flight crews can be quite weird. One time they sang us a "welcome to our flight" song. It was quite embarrassing.
Porc411 call says that the court ordered the return of Ivy's son as of noon tomorrow.
Call attached.
Quote from: Kevin Dean on June 15, 2009, 03:55 PM NHFT
Porc411 call says that the court ordered the return of Ivy's son as of noon tomorrow.
Call attached.
Thanks. Updates posted to NH-CLOG (http://www.nhclog.org/taxonomy/term/54), too. Haven't gotten around to writing up the details yet; too busy doing things to spend time writing about them...
And apparently they showed up around 02:30 this morning and dropped Peter off with Bill & Ivy.
That's just mean. Kids who are up at 2:30 in the morning don't want to go back to bed. I know because that's what mine was doing last night/this morning.
Which means that the parent(s) will have to stay up with the kid
Which means that the parent(s) will be a wreck all the next day, unable to function, zombie-like.
I'd imagine after the state kidnapped her kid, Ivy was just fine being up with him.
Details of Ivy's bail hearing are finally posted (http://www.nhclog.org/node/14) on NH-CLOG. The video is uploading as I write this, and should be embedded by tomorrow.
Her entire Rhode Island case is being catalogued here (http://www.nhclog.org/taxonomy/term/54).
I knew there was one forum I forgot to update...
Ivy had the extradition hearing on Monday; the Governor's Warrant has still not been issued so she's still free for the next sixty days. The trial for the motor vehicle charges was also continued until the same date, 2009-09-14 at 13:00.
They also realized that the vehicle is registered to her LLC, so additional charges have been filed against the LLC, the trial for which will be 2009-08-05 at 13:00.
These are all in Laconia District Court.
More on NH-CLOG (http://www.nhclog.org/taxonomy/term/54) shortly.