New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => Voluntaryism/Anarchism => Topic started by: Kat Kanning on August 25, 2010, 08:33 PM NHFT

Title: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 25, 2010, 08:33 PM NHFT
I"m so sick of the political signs all over the frikkin' place.  How about we make up some anarchist signs to put up?  I'll get a quote for how much the signs cost, and take up a collection to get them made.

I was thinking it could say something like

Anarchy
(A)
The better choice.
Some URL explaining anarchy

Would people be willing to donate to get them made?  Better sign suggestions?  What's a good URL explaining anarchy or voluntaryism?
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: FreelanceFreedomFighter on August 25, 2010, 09:16 PM NHFT
I'm sure this can be tweaked to be much better, but here's a thought...

There are a lot of signs that say:

Quote
Vote
So-n-So
Demorepublicrat
for
political office!

Along those lines how about:

Vote
Jackboot Thug
politician
for
government control!
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 25, 2010, 09:34 PM NHFT
Just an idea


(http://politicalgraffiti.com/nhfree/images/sign-idea-1.jpg)
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 26, 2010, 01:25 AM NHFT
Cool ideas :)
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: FreelanceFreedomFighter on August 26, 2010, 08:45 AM NHFT
How about...

ABOLISH SLAVERY NOW!
END GOVERNMENT!
don't VOTE!
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: bigmike on August 26, 2010, 11:09 AM NHFT
Only Followers Need Leaders (my favorite, and I think I'll make banners to hang on overpasses for election day)

Don't Vote - You'll Only Encourage Them! (credit to Travis Eden for this one)

Why Vote When You Can Solve Problems Yourself? (probably too long)

As a side note, I like the idea of having a URL people can go to, but I think anything referring to anarchy might turn people off. I've been liking the concept of 'direct action' and I think it's something that a lot of people could get behind and learn about voluntaryism in the process.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Jacobus on August 26, 2010, 12:22 PM NHFT
How about inventing a candidate that is running for every office? 

VOTE
McPower for Senator!

VOTE
McPower for Governor!

VOTE
McPower for Dog Catcher!

VOTE
McPower for God Emporer!

Put the picture of a shit-crazy politican on the signs.  I'm sure John C. Calhoun wouldn't mind anyone using his mug:

(http://www.nndb.com/people/902/000043773/calhoun55.jpg)

Put up a URL to a website for his campaign.  The whole thing would be mostly mockery of politics and politicians.

Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: MaineShark on August 26, 2010, 12:52 PM NHFT
"Vote None of The Above" is always a good one.

"Anarchy is Patriotic" makes a good bumper sticker, for cognitive dissonance, if nothing else.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: FreelanceFreedomFighter on August 26, 2010, 01:14 PM NHFT
I quit using the Anarchy label a long time back because so many people only think of it based on the "reputation" of the word.

I've used Abolitionist instead. People don't really get it at first... thinking that we've already "abolished" slavery. A quick explanation works nicely in those cases. Unless of course the person simply can't have a completely open intellectual conversation about it... and they're out there! I just smile and move on. Some people LIKE the chains that bind them... go figure.

Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Terror Australis on August 27, 2010, 12:59 AM NHFT
Quote from: FreelanceFreedomFighter on August 26, 2010, 01:14 PM NHFT
I quit using the Anarchy label a long time back because so many people only think of it based on the "reputation" of the word.

I've used Abolitionist instead. People don't really get it at first... thinking that we've already "abolished" slavery. A quick explanation works nicely in those cases. Unless of course the person simply can't have a completely open intellectual conversation about it... and they're out there! I just smile and move on. Some people LIKE the chains that bind them... go figure.

I prefer autonomous.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Raineyrocks on August 27, 2010, 02:44 PM NHFT
Quote from: bigmike on August 26, 2010, 11:09 AM NHFT
Only Followers Need Leaders (my favorite, and I think I'll make banners to hang on overpasses for election day)

Don't Vote - You'll Only Encourage Them! (credit to Travis Eden for this one)

Why Vote When You Can Solve Problems Yourself? (probably too long)

As a side note, I like the idea of having a URL people can go to, but I think anything referring to anarchy might turn people off. I've been liking the concept of 'direct action' and I think it's something that a lot of people could get behind and learn about voluntaryism in the process.

Yeah, I like your 1st one the best too!  :)  The 2nd one isn't too bad either.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 27, 2010, 04:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jacobus on August 26, 2010, 12:22 PM NHFT
How about inventing a candidate that is running for every office? 

VOTE
McPower for Senator!

VOTE
McPower for Governor!

VOTE
McPower for Dog Catcher!

VOTE
McPower for God Emporer!

Put the picture of a shit-crazy politican on the signs.  I'm sure John C. Calhoun wouldn't mind anyone using his mug:

(http://www.nndb.com/people/902/000043773/calhoun55.jpg)

Put up a URL to a website for his campaign.  The whole thing would be mostly mockery of politics and politicians.

I also like that sort of idea and have it lead to the free state party :)
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 27, 2010, 05:11 PM NHFT
(http://anarchistnews.org/files/pictures/2010/anarchy_dog_fight_system.jpg) :D :D

just saw this
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Kat Kanning on August 28, 2010, 05:21 AM NHFT
Here's pricing I found at one place:

     Qty    Price    Color Backside    
     1    $11.99    $14.98    
     2    $20.99    $24.98    
     4    $33.99    $39.98    
     6    $44.99    $52.98    
     8    $55.99    $65.98     
     10    $66.99    $78.98    
     20    $121.99    $145.98    
     30    $176.99    $212.98    
     40    $231.99    $279.98
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: K. Darien Freeheart on August 29, 2010, 01:43 PM NHFT
(http://www.theblogofrecord.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/vote-for-nobody.bmp)
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: FreelanceFreedomFighter on August 29, 2010, 04:41 PM NHFT
Ummmmm... I think we have a winner.

It could be put into different signs and bumper-stickers...

Vote for NOBODY... NOBODY cares!
Vote for NOBODY... NOBODY keeps promises!
Vote for NOBODY... NOBODY will listen!
Vote for NOBODY... NOBODY tells the truth!
etc...
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 29, 2010, 05:28 PM NHFT
I had this design on a sweat shirt back in the day... lol

(http://www.nobodyforpresident.org/nobutt80.jpg)
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 05, 2010, 02:00 PM NHFT
back in my day we voted .... and we liked it!
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: FreelanceFreedomFighter on September 06, 2010, 08:44 PM NHFT
 :laughing4: :rofl: :clapping:

good one! been there, done that... broke the mug, tore up the T-shirt for rags!

Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Pat K on September 06, 2010, 11:21 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on September 05, 2010, 02:00 PM NHFT
back in my day we voted .... and we liked it!

And right after we voted we had rock soup......and we liked it!
And I will have you know that the rocks were heavier and crunchier
back then!
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on September 07, 2010, 06:57 AM NHFT
Everybody knows that rocks were newer and softer back then!  Nice try!
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Pat K on September 08, 2010, 12:10 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on September 07, 2010, 06:57 AM NHFT
Everybody knows that rocks were newer and softer back then!  Nice try!

Ha! This from a guy that can't remember last Tuesday.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: lildog on September 09, 2010, 03:46 PM NHFT
If you are going to take the trouble and expense to make up signs then you need to use them to give people an alternative solution.

I personally don't see not voting as a valid alternative because even if only 1% of the population votes, the politician with the most votes will declare victory and go about their way.  And let's face it, many of those who vote do so for the person willing to take the most away from others and give it to them.  You're refusing to vote doesn't stop them from using the government gun to take portions of your pay or increase your property tax or other taxes and fees you end up getting hit with.

Many people see the problem but there is no valid alternative for them as long as politicians gain power who use that power to take away from others to give to those who give them the power.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: MaineShark on September 09, 2010, 05:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: lildog on September 09, 2010, 03:46 PM NHFTIf you are going to take the trouble and expense to make up signs then you need to use them to give people an alternative solution.

I personally don't see not voting as a valid alternative because even if only 1% of the population votes, the politician with the most votes will declare victory and go about their way.  And let's face it, many of those who vote do so for the person willing to take the most away from others and give it to them.  You're refusing to vote doesn't stop them from using the government gun to take portions of your pay or increase your property tax or other taxes and fees you end up getting hit with.

Many people see the problem but there is no valid alternative for them as long as politicians gain power who use that power to take away from others to give to those who give them the power.

Let me preface this by saying that I'm not opposed to voting, when it can achieve something.  For example, there are many, many things Ron Paul stands for that I oppose, but he also doesn't fit very well with the current establishment.  He's like a poorly-cut gear in a machine, slowing it down and causing failures.  When it comes to the machinery of the State, poorly-functioning parts are a good thing.

However, if enough folks just stopped voting, the government would not be able to continue on (as in your example where only 1% bother to vote).  "We" already outnumber the government goons many times over, and the politicians more than that.  If enough folks stop believing in the myth that the State is legitimate, it will lose its power, because it just cannot project enough force to subdue the entire population.  If you have a shotgun with 9 shells in it, you can still hold back a crowd of ten, because no one wants to go up against those odds.  Maybe even a crowd of 50 or 100, because folks still don't like the idea of getting shot.  Could you hold back a thousand?  Ten thousand?  I wouldn't be likely to try.

If enough folks just say, "no," the Statists will have to give up, because they simply do not have the power to stop such a large number from living free.  I'm sure some zealots will declare themselves the "government in exile" or something, but what's that to us?

Joe
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 11, 2010, 03:25 AM NHFT
not voting seems like a good alternative
it seems like if you do vote, the system either cheats in their counting, or doesn't do what the voters want
they only change when they sense that they are losing their legitimacy
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: K. Darien Freeheart on September 13, 2010, 07:44 PM NHFT
I personally only think "not voting" is effective when coupled with "ignoring the demands of those you didn't vote for".

There have been elections with 0% voter turn out. They still elected bureaucrats (there generally are laws for such things) who went on to be violent, even though literally nobody voted for them.

Since I've heard stories of the unelected bureaucrats, but not the reactionary tax revolts, I'll assume they continued to obey.

The political means MIGHT be an effective way to reach people who will only listen to the pulpits they're used to hearing from, but the political means ITSELF isn't a means to more liberty.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Kat Kanning on September 25, 2010, 08:01 AM NHFT
Well, someone beat me to it  ;D  We were driving thru Salisbury last night and I said Hey, that political sign had an anarchy symbol.   The guys were dubious, so when we drove back thru, we stopped and took pics.  It said Vote Nobody and was strategically placed next to John Babiarz for governor.  LOL...and it wasn't even us who did it!
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: John on September 25, 2010, 08:24 PM NHFT
Just found this thread.
When I started seeing all the ugly signs again I was thinking I will someday have some made which say "PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY CHURCH" and then have an open box beneath (or perhaps above) to put in various mesages which could be written on tape and then changed as desired.

But, yes I would be willing to contribute a bit to something like the " Vote for Nobody ..." signs.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: K. Darien Freeheart on September 25, 2010, 09:32 PM NHFT
QuoteWell, someone beat me to it    We were driving thru Salisbury last night and I said Hey, that political sign had an anarchy symbol.   The guys were dubious, so when we drove back thru, we stopped and took pics.  It said Vote Nobody and was strategically placed next to John Babiarz for governor.  LOL...and it wasn't even us who did it!

You're telling the story wrong, Kat! The sign was red and black and said "Elect Nobody" with the afforementioned anarchist-A.

You also forgot to mention that it was in a triad of signs... Ken Blevins (Libertarian for US Senate) and THEN John Babiarz (NH Governer).

Also: http://nh.craigslist.org/mis/1973849447.html (http://nh.craigslist.org/mis/1973849447.html)
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 26, 2010, 06:38 AM NHFT
here it is on hwy 4
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: lildog on September 28, 2010, 09:19 AM NHFT
Quote from: Kevin Freeheart on September 13, 2010, 07:44 PM NHFT
I personally only think "not voting" is effective when coupled with "ignoring the demands of those you didn't vote for".

There have been elections with 0% voter turn out. They still elected bureaucrats (there generally are laws for such things) who went on to be violent, even though literally nobody voted for them.

Since I've heard stories of the unelected bureaucrats, but not the reactionary tax revolts, I'll assume they continued to obey.

The political means MIGHT be an effective way to reach people who will only listen to the pulpits they're used to hearing from, but the political means ITSELF isn't a means to more liberty.

You bring up exactly my point.

In Merrimack town elections for example we routinely have 2 to 3 thousand show up to vote.  That's out of a town of 29,000 people with over 9k registered voters.  So not even a majority of registered voters show up but yet the town government continues along on it's happy way.  I even saw one election where the person won had less then 50 votes total.  That's 50 out of 29,000 people.

Has that changed anything?  Nope, the town continues on as if they were elected with a majority vote.

Personally I think a stronger message would be sent if the other 28,950 people (or whatever percent are eligible to vote) actually showed up and cast votes for a write in of "none of the above".  It's one thing to win with 50 votes and have nothing cast against you but to win with 50 votes and have 28,950 votes saying anyone but you I think sends a clear message that people don't want what your pushing.

As for ignoring the demands, that's the more difficult part.  Just as Joe pointed out that 10 bullets could hold back even 50 or 100 people because no one wants to be shot, that same type of fear prevents people from taking a stand ignoring government demands.  For starters if you were to stop 100 people on the street, 99 of them would say that government is needed.  I'd guess at least 40 of them would even argue that our current level of government is needed and perhaps 80 would be afraid to see something they need (read as "want") cut.  Given that, you'd be very unlikely to find many people willing to stop paying taxes or ignore even the stupidest laws fearing for their own safety and freedom.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: FreelanceFreedomFighter on September 28, 2010, 09:37 AM NHFT

I don't call in to squawk radio, but decided to try this morning on the way to work... The host that I happened to turn on was saying something about voters being stupid, but I thought I couldn't have heard that right... Someone that agrees that voting is stupid. Turned out he was saying that current voters who're mad at the system are stupid people. I was getting ready to move on to a different station when he made a comment about how "they" want to cut taxes but don't want to cut any services. So... when I heard the number, I called.

The screener (or whatever) answered, he asked what I wanted to talk about. I said that I wanted to talk about the fact that SOME people want to cut taxes to ZERO and also cut EVERYTHING else having to do with government to ZERO. The screener mumbled something about "a nutjob" and I said "Excuse me? What did you just say?" "Oh, I was talking with someone else about how the 'tea-partiers' are being called 'nutjobs'. Are you with the 'tea party'?" "No. I'm not." (Put on hold...) After a whole bunch of other callers and waiting through the break with a bajillion commercials... I got cut off!  :BangHead: grrrrrr... I don't even know why I bothered. A friend of mine said it was probably just an "accident", but the very, very few times I've ever tried to call to any squawk radio show, I've always gotten cut off... 100%. Interesting...
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: lildog on October 20, 2010, 02:39 PM NHFT
Radio show hosts want one of two types of callers generally... those who kiss their butts saying they are 100% right or those who disagree but are incapable of forming a valid argument.  If you disagree and present a well thought out argument you will make the host look bad and they can't have that.

That said, I think I recall the show.  They were discussing a poll taken recently of "likely voters".  The results were the vast majority wanted taxes cut and at the same time when asked which government services they would want to give up they responded "none".

That's the real problem here, people want everything but they don't want to be the ones paying for it all.  That's why they use government in the first place.  Government has devolved from being a simple protector to make sure Person A doesn't step on the rights of Person B, to being the tool Person A uses to beat Person B over the head with in order to get what they want.

It's going to take a drastic re-education of society for this country to get out of that way of thinking.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 21, 2010, 06:08 AM NHFT
I have also voted in elections where a huge amount of people wanted something done .... like lower taxes or do something specific to lower spending by the government .... and then they ignored it
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: John on October 22, 2010, 08:21 PM NHFT
Quote from: lildog on October 20, 2010, 02:39 PM NHFTGovernment has devolved from being a simple protector to make sure Person A doesn't step on the rights of Person B, to being the tool Person A uses to beat Person B over the head with in order to get what they want.



And the alleged "devolution" happened a long, long, long time ago.
I think that Bastiat described it in his book "The Law" and that was quite a long time ago. But, neither was it new then.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Egan Terk on October 24, 2010, 12:18 PM NHFT
I was wondering, how many registered voters actually voted?
Turns out in 2008 it was right around 62%
http://elections.gmu.edu/voter_turnout.htm (http://elections.gmu.edu/voter_turnout.htm)

So . . . .
Obama got ~53% of those votes or 66,882,230
and
McCain received ~46% or 58,343,671



http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/ (http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/results/president/)


Just to make it easy for me to calculate, I'll say that the turn out of registered voters was 60% in which case we have 53,047,432 people that did in fact vote for Nobody.
A very close race using only registered voters.

Then, look at the number of eligible voters 218,054,301 and subtract 132,645,504 registered voters and you get 85,408,797.
http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2010G.html (http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2010G.html)

That's a lot of disaffected!
Many like myself and many others here that will not vote because of moral issues.
So definitely a bit of speculation on my part but none the less, some demonstrable evidence that we're are closer than we might have thought.

So what now?!
I say we keep talking Konkin, Spooner et al. to friends, family and friends of friends and family.

Speaking of which, Brett's "Escape from Imaginationland" project was a real epiphany for me in regards to talking with people. Check it out.
http://www.schoolsucksproject.com/podcasts/61 (http://www.schoolsucksproject.com/podcasts/61)
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: John on October 24, 2010, 09:22 PM NHFT
Quote from: Egan Terk on October 24, 2010, 12:18 PM NHFTJust to make it easy for me to calculate, I'll say that the turn out of registered voters was 60% in which case we have 53,047,432 people that did in fact vote for Nobody.
A very close race using only registered voters.

Then, look at the number of eligible voters 218,054,301 and subtract 132,645,504 registered voters and you get 85,408,797.
http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2010G.html (http://elections.gmu.edu/Turnout_2010G.html)

That's a lot of disaffected!



Sometimes people (particularly media) like to say that so-and-so was elected by "a clear majority" or even " by a landslide victory" (if it is more that a few percent difference in votes for the top two vote getters).
To make it as simple to understand as I can, I sometimes tell people:

About half the people who are eligible to vote don't want to register.
Of the half who register, only about half of them actually vote.
And, counting only the two top vote getters, the winner usually gets just over half of the votes.
So, Half of 100% is 50%.
And, half of 50% is 25%.
Then, half of that 25% = 12.5%.
Therefore, what is being called the "clear majority" or "landslide victory" is - IN REALITY - just a bit above SINGLE DIGGETS.


Disaffected?
There is also the fact that of the "25%" who vote, MANY only do so because they think they "need" to.
Maybe fewer than 10% actually want/like to vote.
Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Free libertarian on October 24, 2010, 10:41 PM NHFT
^^^ Single "digits" , dig get?   ;D


(...Often times Bob would display his annoyingly charming wit by playing spelling or grammar cop.)


Title: Re: Anarchy Road Signs
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 25, 2010, 05:07 AM NHFT
and that 60% from last time was extremely high ... and contains all sorts of vote fraud
look at the numbers in a place like california .... it is very normal for a very small % of people to vote