New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => Porcupine Trading Post => Business and Job Networking => Topic started by: Dave Ridley on November 15, 2005, 01:13 PM NHFT

Title: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dave Ridley on November 15, 2005, 01:13 PM NHFT
Here are some thoughts on ways to spend silver, should you own or acquire any...

Certainly it is better to spend it than it is to sell it to the average coin dealer, as they will try to acquire it for a very low price, maybe even below spot.  They have a lot of overhead to cover.

But how do you do that?

I'm no expert yet but these are the "silver spending techniques" that have worked for me:

- Paying your family members with it, and accepting it from them...sort of like a "family currency."
- Offering silver as payment at small businesses where the owner is present
- Offering it even at big stores, where sometimes the cashier is a coin collector and will buy it straight from you on the spot.  This works about 20% of the time.
- Offering it as payment at garage sales, flea markets, etc. 
- Paying free staters with it.  If you ever owe me any money or buy anything from me silver is the way to go!
- Using it as a donation.  Works best if you are doing direct donations to someone in your geographical area...for instance I've been giving people silver as a thank-you when they commit a publicity-generating act of civil disobedience against an unjust law.
- Sell it to someone (preferably not a traditional coin dealer)
-  Use it as a gift, for holidays or birthdays.  Silver rounds make great stocking stuffers (Thanks to Mike Fisher for this suggestion).
- Using it as a tip is something I have done in the past but on reflection I'm not sure that's such a good use.   It's hard to know whether the person you leave it with will appreciate it or not.   However if it's the type of tip you hand to someone in person then you can guage their reaction and decide whether to use fed notes instead.

In any case, once you discover that you can spend silver, even if only 4 or 5 ounces a month, that opens up a whole new world for you...a world where you are able to feel comfortable owning silver in respectable quantities..knowing that eventually you can use it at a profit, even if only at a slow rate.   But in my experience it's been possible to spend/move/sell about 500 bucks worth a month.

The advantages of spending silver seem to be as follows:

1) You can usually make a slight profit by spending it...assuming you buy it in bulk at a discount price and spend it at a slightly higher price.

2) Whatever silver you own, with the intent of spending, acts as an investment.  Even if it's just sitting in your briefcase for a year, it's fluctuating against the dollar like a mutual fund share.  Though it will go both up and down, over the long haul it will outperform the dollar and probably even a CD.

3) Whatever silver you own serves as a steadfast hedge against monetary crises and other dollar-killing disasters.

4) Spending and accepting silver is probably better for the economy; the more of it you pump into your community and family the more you are safeguarding them against monetary crises.

5) Unlike a savings account, you do not have to report to the IRS the "interest" your silver earns as it rises in value.  I don't know any way an IRS agent could track your precious metal expenditures and profits.

6) In many cases the "interest" is "paid" to you very quickly.  For instance, when I bought 50 1-oz rounds of Pan American silver for $7.70 an ounce, their price quickly fluctuated up to $8.50 an ounce, within two months.    That's about a 10% increase in 60 days, equivilant to a bank account earning more like 100% annual interest

The flip side is that silver does go down, occasionally for 5 or 10 years at a time.   When that happens you just have to hang onto it.  You don't want to spend silver when it is lower in value than the price you paid for it.  During times like that it seems best to just let it sit until it shoots back up again. 

The best silver options appear to be the Liberty Dollar (www.LibertyDollar.org), the Pan American Silver Round (http://www.nwtmintbullion.com/silver_panam.php) and the Sunshine Silver round which you can get at http://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/1-oz-silver-rounds.html

The last of these I have not yet tried.  The pan american rounds I ordered took a long time to arrive, almost 50 days...but they sold for only about 10% above spot price in mint condition.  Liberty Dollars are easiest to get and have a high face value written on them.  But they are just as expensive as the U.S. government silver eagles.  The other disadvantage of Liberty Dollars is that they are controversial; the dollar face value on the round is only partly backed by silver.

In any case you can already get the Pan American rounds directly from me or the Liberty Dollars, eventually I hope to have the Sunshine rounds too.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Michael Fisher on November 15, 2005, 05:14 PM NHFT
Give it as a gift for the holidays.  :)
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dave Ridley on November 15, 2005, 09:34 PM NHFT
OK cool Mike I've added your suggestion to the original post.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Michael Fisher on November 15, 2005, 09:37 PM NHFT
But now it looks like YOUR suggestion.

That's the last time I help you!   ;D
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: FTL_Ian on November 17, 2005, 03:48 PM NHFT
In regards to the tip suggestion, this is an excellent idea, but I suggest leaving the silver (I prefer to use a single Liberty Dollar) ON TOP of a cash tip.  This guarantees the server won't think you're an asshole, and virtually guarantees a closer look at the unique Liberty Dollar, since they've seen those greenbacks before.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Gabo on November 17, 2005, 05:30 PM NHFT
Also, it is a good idea to leave a pamphlet with the LD tip.
That way they have easy access to important information, and can go online to find out more.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Kat Kanning on November 17, 2005, 05:32 PM NHFT
Except in this case it wasn't a liberty dollar....and the cash tip that went with it wound up being like $40.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Eli on November 18, 2005, 07:34 AM NHFT
Also phoenix silver might be a way to do more business in silver.  I've been thinking about picking up a founders account but I'm not a merchant and the fact that they charge 7% buy in and only cash out in 1000 oz bars is making me hesitant.  Has any one else looked into this?


http://www.phoenixdollar.com
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: KBCraig on November 18, 2005, 11:20 AM NHFT
Phoenix's "co-branding" is interesting. You could order up a batch of coins stamped with NHfree.com, or a porcupine logo.

It's cool that their coins include a toll-free number for checking the spot price.

Kevin
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dreepa on November 18, 2005, 12:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on November 18, 2005, 11:20 AM NHFT
Phoenix's "co-branding" is interesting. You could order up a batch of coins stamped with NHfree.com, or a porcupine logo.
Kevin
Hmm that could get interesting. I sent them an email asking for more details.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Pat McCotter on November 19, 2005, 12:10 PM NHFT
What can I buy for 1 troy pound (http://lynncoins.com/miscsilver.htm)?
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: citizen_142002 on November 20, 2005, 10:19 PM NHFT
I have heard that Wal-Mart now accepts the liberty dollar, nation wide. Can anyone verify this?
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dreepa on November 21, 2005, 03:32 PM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on November 18, 2005, 12:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on November 18, 2005, 11:20 AM NHFT
Phoenix's "co-branding" is interesting. You could order up a batch of coins stamped with NHfree.com, or a porcupine logo.
Kevin
Hmm that could get interesting. I sent them an email asking for more details.
Ok Here is the scoop...I think that this is doable.
However there are 'minting' fees etc.  With the price of silver at $8.03 right now I think I could get silver 'disks' at $10 with either a porcupine or NHFREE on it or something.

Would people be willing to pay more to have the logo on it? (that includes shipping and minting etc).
It would raise awareness.
How many people would buy these? I would need to sell about 1000 'disks' to break even.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Pat McCotter on November 21, 2005, 03:35 PM NHFT
You caught me at a bad time. I'm not buying anymore until after holidays. I will be buying 10 then - from you or some other place.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 21, 2005, 05:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on November 21, 2005, 03:32 PM NHFT
Ok Here is the scoop...I think that this is doable.
However there are 'minting' fees etc. With the price of silver at $8.03 right now I think I could get silver 'disks' at $10 with either a porcupine or NHFREE on it or something.

Would people be willing to pay more to have the logo on it? (that includes shipping and minting etc).
It would raise awareness.
How many people would buy these? I would need to sell about 1000 'disks' to break even.
You could also have a floating price with your minting price added. :)
What would be the best logo?
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Gabo on November 21, 2005, 05:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: citizen_142002 on November 20, 2005, 10:19 PM NHFT
I have heard that Wal-Mart now accepts the liberty dollar, nation wide. Can anyone verify this?
:o

NO WAY!
If so, Walmart is my favorite big chain superstore!
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dave Ridley on November 21, 2005, 10:08 PM NHFT
if you're putting something on the coin I I think the most effective thing to put on it would be something like

Keep New Hampshire Free
nhfree.com

with the most important part being the nhfree.com...
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dreepa on November 22, 2005, 07:56 AM NHFT
Yeah I was thinking maybe a big NHFREE.com.

If I ordered now we would get the 'disks' until January.
I want to make sure that I would be able to distribute the majority of them.
I just don't want to blow my money and not recoup it esp since I am not making any profit.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: president on November 22, 2005, 09:07 AM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on November 21, 2005, 05:34 PM NHFT
What would be the best logo?

(http://www.freestatewyoming.org/images/fsw_coin_rev_fsw.jpg)

;)
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Eli on November 22, 2005, 09:23 AM NHFT
Free State Party

<porc logo with party hat>

www.nhfree.com
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dreepa on November 22, 2005, 12:26 PM NHFT
Prez if you wanna take a road trip out to WY with me..sure.

Also there are buffalo in Warner... I saw them on Sunday.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: president on November 22, 2005, 12:50 PM NHFT
I have a FSW coin. I need to get some more.
I want to buy something from a free stater with them.

Anyone want to resell a porcupine directory for silver?
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Kat Kanning on November 22, 2005, 12:59 PM NHFT
Amy probably has one still.
Title: Re: Ways to spend silver in NH
Post by: Dave Ridley on January 26, 2006, 03:50 PM NHFT
updated version on the article at the top of this thread

Here are some thoughts on ways to spend silver, should you own or acquire any...

Certainly it is better to spend it than it is to sell it to the average coin dealer, as they will try to acquire it for a very low price, maybe even below spot. They have a lot of overhead to cover.

But how do you do that?

I'm no expert yet but these are the "silver spending techniques" that have worked for me:

- Paying your family members with it, and accepting it from them...sort of like a "family currency."
- Offering silver as payment at small businesses where the owner is present
- Offering it even at big stores, where sometimes the cashier is a coin collector and will buy it straight from you on the spot. This works about 20% of the time.
- Offering it as payment at garage sales, flea markets, etc.
- Paying free staters with it. If you ever owe me any money or buy anything from me silver is the way to go!
- Using it as a donation. Works best if you are doing direct donations to someone in your geographical area...for instance I've been giving people silver as a thank-you when they commit a publicity-generating act of civil disobedience against an unjust law.
- Sell it to someone (preferably not a traditional coin dealer)
- Use it as a gift, for holidays or birthdays. Silver rounds make great stocking stuffers (Thanks to Mike Fisher for this suggestion).
- Using it as a tip is something I have done in the past but on reflection I'm not sure that's such a good use. It's hard to know whether the person you leave it with will appreciate it or not. However if it's the type of tip you hand to someone in person then you can guage their reaction and decide whether to use fed notes instead.

In any case, once you discover that you can spend silver, even if only 4 or 5 ounces a month, that opens up a whole new world for you...a world where you are able to feel comfortable owning silver in respectable quantities..knowing that eventually you can use it at a profit, even if only at a slow rate. But in my experience it's been possible to spend/move/sell about 500 bucks worth a month.

The advantages of spending silver seem to be as follows:

1) You can usually make a slight profit by spending it...assuming you buy it in bulk at a discount price and spend it at a slightly higher price.

2) Whatever silver you own, with the intent of spending, acts as an investment. Even if it's just sitting in your briefcase for a year, it's fluctuating against the dollar like a mutual fund share. Though it will go both up and down, over the long haul it will outperform the dollar and probably even a CD.

3) Whatever silver you own serves as a steadfast hedge against monetary crises and other dollar-killing disasters.

4) Spending and accepting silver is probably better for the economy; the more of it you pump into your community and family the more you are safeguarding them against monetary crises.

5) Unlike a savings account, you do not have to report to the IRS the "interest" your silver earns as it rises in value. I don't know any way an IRS agent could track your precious metal expenditures and profits.

6) In many cases the "interest" is "paid" to you very quickly. For instance, when I bought 50 1-oz rounds of Pan American silver for $7.70 an ounce, their price quickly fluctuated up to $8.50 an ounce, within two months. That's about a 10% increase in 60 days, equivilant to a bank account earning more like 100% annual interest.  As of January 26, 2006 the bulk purchase price for the same silver round is up to $10.17 per ounce!

The flip side is that silver does go down, occasionally for 5 or 10 years at a time. When that happens you just have to hang onto it. You don't want to spend silver when it is lower in value than the price you paid for it. During times like that it seems best to just let it sit until it shoots back up again.

The best silver options appear to be the Liberty Dollar (www.LibertyDollar.org <http://www.LibertyDollar.org>), the Pan American Silver Round (<http://www.nwtmintbullion.com/silver_panam.php>) and the Sunshine Silver round which you can get at <http://www.cmi-gold-silver.com/1-oz-silver-rounds.html>

The last of these I have not yet tried. The pan american rounds I ordered took a long time to arrive, almost 50 days...but they sold for only about 10% above spot price in mint condition. Liberty Dollars are easiest to get and have a high face value written on them. But they are just as expensive as the U.S. government silver eagles. The other disadvantage of Liberty Dollars is that they are controversial; the dollar face value on the $20 round is only partly backed by silver, tho the $10-face-value round is now worth more than $10 just in terms of the silver.

In any case you can already get the Pan American rounds directly from me or the Liberty Dollars, eventually I hope to have the Sunshine rounds too.