New Hampshire Underground

I want to contact a bunch of people to invite them to help/participate:

Ron Paul
Michael Badnarik
John Gilmore (http://papersplease.org/gilmore/)
EFF
ACLU?
IJ?

Who else would be interested?

Quote from: katdillon on May 17, 2005, 06:33 AM NHFT
Manchester Airport, Saturday June 11th, noon.? Russell will try and board a plane to Philadelphia to see Independence Hall while carrying only a copy of the Declaration of Independence.....no ID.

WOW, that's a GREAT idea!   :o

When you said boarding a plane without ID, I didn't think of these details.  The Independence Hall and Declaration of Independence details should gain a LOT of support!  This should EASILY make national news.

What is the punishment for doing this?  Does anyone have the exact law, or is it one of those "administrative rules" that no one is allowed to see?

I can tell you right now that this is absolutely supported by Digital Freeman (http://df.ctgreatbay.com/).? We will fully cover the event.

It's a pro-privacy and anti-ID civil disobedience event.  What else could be better?

We had been talking about visiting relatives this summer....and we realized that without ID I wouldn't be able to fly....so I will try to go on a short trip to Philly (to visit Independance Hall) and see if they will let me go.

Hopefully they will let me pass and we can all start enjoying the freedom to travel in the US. :D

Apparently the rules are not available to the public.  Secret law and all that.  That's what the guy at papersplease.org was sueing the gov't about.

So would anyone like to join me?

What kind of tshirt should I/we wear to this event?

Who should I give my name as?....Shorty Dawkins....Sam Adams....Patrick Henry

Does Southwest Air still use the slogan? ...."you are now free to move about the country"....now as soon as the government stops hassling us...it will be true. 8)

TSA Penalties:

C. Other Security Violations by Individuals or Persons
1. Interference With Screening (49 C.F.R. ? 1540.109) ?
a. physical contact ?$1,500-$5,000
b. non-physical $500-$1,500
c. false threats ?$1,000-$2,000

2. Entering Sterile Area Without Submitting To Screening $1,000-$3,000 49 C.F.R. ? 1540.107   
         
3. Tampering or interfering with, compromising, modifying, attempting to circumvent, or causing a person to tamper or
interfere with, compromise, modify or attempt to circumvent any security system, measure, or procedure. 49 C.F.R. ? 1540.105(a).$2,500-$6,000

4. Entering or being present within a secured area, AOA, SIDA, or sterile area without complying with the systems measures or
procedures being applied to control access to, or presence or movement in, such areas. 49 C.F.R. ? 1540.105(a) (2). $1,000-$3,000

5. Improper use of airport access medium. 49 C.F.R. ? 1540.105(a)(3) $1,000-$3,000         

6. Fraud and Intentional Falsification 49 C.F.R. ? 1540.103 $2,500-$6,000 +crim. referral

7. Failure to allow inspection of airman certificate, Authorization, FAA license. 49 C.F.R. ? 1540.113 $1,000-$3,000

Wow, testy, aren't they?

I am sure those fines will stop any terrorist organization from trying anything.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 08:17 AM NHFT
Who should I give my name as?....Shorty Dawkins....Sam Adams....Patrick Henry

Gandhi's principles are a very good guide for how this event can be approached.  I would be absolutely honest but refuse to cooperate with their rules.  Be polite and physically cooperate with the people, but refuse to be controlled by the system.  Be very well-versed on anything related to this issue anyone may ask you about.  Be morally superior to the government in every possible way.

Through these methods, the people will realize who the real scoundrel is - the government.

We will definitely gain a lot of support from recent events.  REAL ID passed as an amendment to the Iraq spending bill by 100 to 0.  Who do you know that is happy about it?  Nobody.  Absolutely nobody who I've spoken to supports it.  We will have enormous support for this event.

Someone on the Board of the Newmarket Business Association told me today that somehow that proposed new law requiring passports to travel to Canada is already in effect.  Is this true?  How was this implemented so quickly?  If so, perhaps a follow-up civil disobedience event could be a public passport burning which will result in mass arrests.  Depending on how your event goes, it could be a very successful follow-up event.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 08:46 AM NHFT
I am sure those fines will stop any terrorist organization from trying anything.

LOL!!!

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 08:17 AM NHFT
Who should I give my name as?....Shorty Dawkins....Sam Adams....Patrick Henry

Does Southwest Air still use the slogan? ...."you are now free to move about the country"....now as soon as the government stops hassling us...it will be true. 8)

That's a good one to try if you have access to Southwest.

Your name for travel should be Russell Kanning. You don't want the added complexity of a pseudonym. Buy a ticket in your name, and present it when you arrive.

It won't be a violation of the law to refuse to show an ID. They simply won't let you pass without it. It doesn't matter if there even is law; the airlines believe there is. I know you've read John Gilmore's story. He's not getting anywhere with it. Your protest could bring more attention to the problem, but don't expect sympathy from the majority of the sheeple who claim they'd gladly trade rights for security.

Kevin

I can just see Russell with his big smile going against the jackbooted thugs.

 I have to agree with Kevin. The sheeple are more concerned with TERRORISTS and their security, then the question of rights and freedoms, when it concerns airlines. 9/11 is too vivid in their minds.

Yea...I might as well stick with my real name...and half the papers can spell my name Canning. :)

We definitely should turn this into a celebration.....the beginning of the end of tyranny in America :D

We should all be happy and friendly ...... that should help them know I am not strapped with bombs or anything.

I can just see/hear JP reading the Declaration into a megaphone. 8)

I can't let the majority determine what are my/our rights...
...I know there are many people that will disagree with me.....I want to change their minds. :)

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 11:11 AM NHFT
We should all be happy and friendly ...... that should help them know I am not strapped with bombs or anything.

I like it! ?:)

You may need to show your ID to get your ticket, but you won't get any further than airport security. ?Once you have your ticket, you need to show ID to go through security and enter the actual airport. ?That is where the event would need to take place.

Don't forget your miniature metal Bill of Rights! ?LOL ?Remember those? ?"What are you going to do, take away my Rights?"

Bill of Rights Card printed on a metal card. ?Third product from the bottom:
https://secure.eff.org/site/PremiumSelector?CAMPAIGN_ID=1102&JServSessionIdr003=qxbxqll8h1.app13b

Oh that would be funny....
I am going to make sure I have my ticket and boarding pass before I get there, so I don't have to visit the airline...since my problem is the government.
I guess I will be having a conversation with the guy sitting on a stool checking IDs and tickets. 8)

Hopefully they will just give in....so we should be looking for good things not bad. :)

Should I let them know I am coming like Mike did?

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 11:14 AM NHFT
I can't let the majority determine what are my/our rights...
...I know there are many people that will disagree with me.....I want to change their minds. :)

"I can't let the majority determine my rights."
-Russell

A historic quote! ?:)

QuoteShould I let them know I am coming like Mike did?

ABSOLUTELY!!!  Hopefully they'll arrest you for even planning this event.  You'd make your point without even doing anything.  The British did this to Gandhi many times.

What I think is funny is that you can get your boarding card at home on your PC and no one asks you for id.

I think that they won't arrest you they probably will just not let you pass the 'screening' area. ?

I had a big hassle this past Sunday because they thought my daughter was over 2 ( under 2 flies free) and I had no proof. ?Then I refused to take my shoes off so I had to go through 'extra screening' and refused to let the guard ( or is that CO Kevin?) hold my daughter while they searched me. ?I had a nice conversation with the TSA supervisor... he recognized me. ?( I used to fly every week from LAX and would not take my shoes off so I got to talk the the supervisor a lot). ?I asked him if he missed me.

Have fun Russell.

Quote"I can't let the majority determine my rights."
-Russell

A historic quote!

Years from now, young children will read this, and be inspired to join the cause of freedom. ?;)

The only problem with this event is that you may not be arrested for the act of refusing to show an ID.  They might just tell you to get lost.

If you harass the screeners about it repeatedly, you'll be thrown in jail, but why would a moral person harass someone?

What can we do to make sure you are arrested for it?  At least announcing the event may help the event to have such an effect, but it is not guaranteed.

If you absolutely refuse to give up your metal Bill of Rights card, they may be more likely to arrest you.

Quote from: Dreepa on May 17, 2005, 11:28 AM NHFTI had to go through 'extra screening' and refused to let the guard ( or is that CO Kevin?)

Neither. "Goon" or "thug" works nicely, though.  ;D

Kevin

I was planning on not taking 'no' for an answer....my goal is to fly to Philadelphia without any ID.....I will keep going until they stop me....I don't want to harrass them....I just want to get on a plane. :)

Quote from: president on May 17, 2005, 11:48 AM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 11:40 AM NHFT
What can we do to make sure you are arrested for it?

Do you guys like getting arrested?

I am thinking more along the lines of ......I am willing to get arrested for standing up for what is right.

Quote from: president on May 17, 2005, 11:48 AM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 11:40 AM NHFT
What can we do to make sure you are arrested for it?

Do you guys like getting arrested?

This IS the purpose of civil disobedience.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 12:12 PM NHFT
I was planning on not taking 'no' for an answer....my goal is to fly to Philadelphia without any ID.....I will keep going until they stop me....I don't want to harrass them....I just want to get on a plane. :)

So when security tells you to go away, you'll try to walk through anyways?  What if they physically get in your way?  Will you just stay there until they move or you are arrested?  That's one possibility.  You definitely do not want to violate ZAP nor should you resist if they tackle you.  That's my humble opinion.

Whatever you do, if they let you through and call for security, you don't want to go out of sight from the front gate.  If you do, they'll lock down the airport and stop all flights.  If you stay near the security area, they'll arrest you within view of the press and they won't need to lock down the airport and delay flights.

Man, this is going to be HUGE if everything goes as planned.   :o  I'm sure all the press will be there if I call all of my press contacts about your event.   ;D

It is big....that is for sure.

I like the idea of going forward until someone gets in my way....then I could just go around them....if I start running over people....then they may want to start using force.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 02:06 PM NHFT
It is big....that is for sure.

I like the idea of going forward until someone gets in my way....then I could just go around them....if I start running over people....then they may want to start using force.

Taser

Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 02:06 PM NHFT
I like the idea of going forward until someone gets in my way....then I could just go around them....if I start running over people....then they may want to start using force.

Whoooaaaa there... let's not go around running over anyone.  That's not polite!  That's also a violation of ZAP!

I pledge $50 if Russell is fined.

The airline ticket will cost $29 (X2 with all the taxes  :o).  In theory, we should be able to use the same ticket for subsequent trials to get on a plane.

I've called Free Talk Live and announced this....they were stunned!

workiing on press release.

Russell you should probably get those tickets pronto before someone steps in to try and prevent you from doing so.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 11:40 AM NHFT
The only problem with this event is that you may not be arrested for the act of refusing to show an ID.  They might just tell you to get lost.

Hmmm... I guess in that circumstance he could just refuse to get lost.   If physically escorted out of the building or away from the airport he could just say I'll be back in 10 minutes and then come back?

Russell,

My $0.02.

I think you are making a mistake by doing this airline protest.  While Mike Fisher's protest may have received some positive press, you will not get the same from your no-ID airline plan.  It does not have the degree of silliness that manicure licensing laws do.  What will actually happen is that Mike's protest will be lumped in with yours, and this and all future protests will brushed off as the actions of childish clowns.

These random protests seem to have no goal.  One day its UN flag burning.  Next day its manicuring.  The next day it barging onto an airliner without ID.  This latest one will officially place the "NHFree" crowd into the category of imbeciles with ADD.  Sorry to put it that way, but it is the truth.  I wish you would think longer term.  You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.  Nothing will have been achieved.

Sigh.  This is a federal thing, and while Real ID is bad, and while the sad part is that most of the opposition I've heard from states is that they don't want to pay for it.  I'm not sure what the upside of this protest is.  Driving a car without a license might be better, but I'm not sure how much traction that would have with the general populace, too easy for the do-gooders to spin the need for making people have a drivers license.

More power to you if you want to do this, but consider this, when you purchase a ticket from an airline, you are entering into a contract with them.  You provide them money, they provide you transportation.  Regardless of whether or not you're paying attention, your purchase of that ticket subjects you to the contract of carriage that they publish.  From Southwest's contract of carriage: (http://www.southwest.com/travel_center/coc.pdf)

Quote
125.  Compliance with Law and Governmental Regulations (Issued March 13, 2000; Effective March 13, 2000)

All transportation is sold and all carriage is performed subject to compliance with all applicable laws and governmental regulations, including those of the U.S. Department of Transportation, the Federal Aviation Administration, and the Transportation Security Administration, many of which are not specified herin but are nonetheless binding on Carrier and all passengers.

Interestingly, they'll also refuse to fly you if you smell bad . . .

Either way, by refusing to comply with the TSA's requirement to show ID in order to pass through security, you are violating the terms of the contract you entered into with Southwest, and they are not obligated to give you passage.

LOL... Don't expect Russell to listen, guys.  ;)  Remember how I refused to listen to anyone?  If I'd taken anyone's advice at all, the manicure event NEVER would have happened.  It did happen, and it did not receive "some" positive press, it gained massive press, all positive or neutral except for two leftist newspapers that probably only hate us because of our old ties to Benson.

There are a lot of things working against us, so we need to know exactly what we are doing.  To do this, we must learn from history.  What is the best recipe for civil disobedience?  Which principles work best to create a successful event?  How should we act?  What should we say?  How should we approach this issue?

The answers to these questions are easily found in your heart and in history.  Study what works.  Study Gandhi's principles and his life, mix this with your own knowledge and experiences, and you will know exactly what you're doing.

Listen to your own heart and mind.  Trust your ability to make the right decisions.  As long as your heart is in the right place, and your thinking is clear, you will be successful.

Quote from: JonM on May 17, 2005, 10:01 PM NHFT

Quote
125.? Compliance with Law and Governmental Regulations (Issued March 13, 2000; Effective March 13, 2000)

All transportation is sold and all carriage is performed subject to compliance with all applicable laws and governmental regulations, including those of the U.S. Department of Transportation, the Federal Aviation Administration, and the Transportation Security Administration, many of which are not specified herin but are nonetheless binding on Carrier and all passengers.

This is a technicality of the law that should not deter anyone.

Airlines are forced at gunpoint to force others to comply with all laws.  This is the nature of the system, and the airlines have no choice but to follow the rules surrounding them lest they be darwinized by other airlines which are better at groveling at Big Brother's feet.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.? Nothing will have been achieved.

It's funny.

Those are the EXACT words someone used to warn me about the manicure event.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 10:23 PM NHFT
There are a lot of things working against us, so we need to know exactly what we are doing.  To do this, we must learn from history.  What is the best recipe for civil disobedience?  Which principles work best to create a successful event?  How should we act?  What should we say?  How should we approach this issue?

The answers to these questions are easily found in your heart and in history.  Study what works.  Study Gandhi's principles and his life, mix this with your own knowledge and experiences, and you will know exactly what you're doing.

Yes, let us look at history.  Ghandi's salt march produced massive, nationwide civil disobedience.  How many people are there in New Hampshire immitating the manicuring protest?  Zero.  How long will the media coverage last?  Its already over.

What was accomplished?  You made a loud noise for a week.  Yet, I must still get a license to paint nails.  Now, it seems the crew is bored with the whole licensing schtick.  Enough about licensing.  Let's protest something else now.  ::)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 10:34 PM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.  Nothing will have been achieved.

It's funny.

Those are the EXACT words someone used to warn me about the manicure event.

Sorry, Mike, but your protest has ALREADY been forgotten.  The crew turning its attention to a different project will assure that it remains so.

draft press release, suggestions welcome

From NHfree.com, 5/17/05

NH: Man without I.D. vows to board flight or be jailed

Inspired by New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," another Granite Stater
is stepping forward - literally - to defy license-related laws.  Russell
Kanning of Keene has announced he will approach a TSA checkpoint at Manchester airport
on June 11, refuse to show a drivers' license, then continue walking toward his flight
until arrested.

"In a free country," he says, "You do not need the government's permission to travel."
"My goal is to get on the plane with no I.D., if it's this time or next time...I'll just keep trying to do it."

Kanning stresses that he will not resist arrest or do anything that might be perceived as physically threatening.   He says this act of nonviolent resistance will follow the model laid down by Mahatma Gandhi, who used peaceful noncooperation to expel the British from India.

"We'll go slowly, we'll talk with them, we might even tell them everything we're going to do ahead of time.  We're *not* trying to hurt anybody," he says.

But Kanning says the parallels with Gandhi's situation go further than a shared belief in nonviolence.

"In South Africa (where Gandhi's protests began), Indians had to have special I.D...so it's very similar that way, and he wanted to burn it...He was appealing to that same basic idea that we have rights to not have to have paperwork to be able to move freely."

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.  He announced he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, earning a brief trip to jail and heavy regional media coverage for his point of view.

Kanning says Fisher's example inspired him to take similar action against personal licensing, which affects far more people.  He believes the Real I.D. amendment passed by the Senate this month will make things even worse.  But he says it's important to stay positive.   "The goal is we want to get to the point where we can travel without having to have paperwork so, this is the beginning of that.  We see light at the end of the tunnel. "

Currently the plan is for Kanning to arrive at the airport around noon, approaching the security checkpoint at around 12:30 p.m.     He may tweak the timing a bit if need be to avoid delaying other passengers.   

Summary:

What:  Civil disobedience against airplane passenger I.D. requirement
Where:  Manchester Airport in New Hampshire (exact spot to be determined)
When:  Saturday, June 11 @ noon
Who:  Russell Kanning of Keene, NH, supporters from NHfree.com
Why:  To draw attention to the fact that without a government license, you can barely go anywhere
How:  By approaching a TSA checkpoint with a ticket but no I.D, then walking forward through it until arrested or allowed to board.
Contacts:  Russell Kanning:  (603) 357-2049,  Kat Dillon (same number).  More contacts and details to appear in future releases, which will be posted to NHfree.com

Also can someone post a link to this thread from the announcement about this on our index page?  actually I think announcements on our index page should always contain a link to the threads discussing those announcements....  the threads are always more up to date.

I don't recall too many people saying Mike shouldn't have done the manicure protest, most of the dissent was on his pleading guilty.  By pleading not guilty the coverage would last longer, and if a jury trial could be had for such a charge, a FIJA plan could have been implemented.

There is no violation of the law if Russell is to apply ZAP to his protest.  He approaches the person at the beginning of security who asks to see his boarding pass and picture ID.  He says he has no picture ID.  The person says thou shalt not pass without an ID.  What then?  If he blocks passage of other passengers attempting to go through security is he still adhering to ZAP?  If he gets belligerent with the person who insists he have ID, is he still adhering to ZAP?

Mike's protest adhered to ZAP, he was buffing the nails of someone who agreed to have it done.  No person was harmed, threatened, or even inconvenienced by that protest, and most who read about it agreed that being thrown in jail for filing and buffing someone's nails is idiotic.  Russell most likely can't get arrested in this protest without doing something other than attempt to pass through security without ID.  If he does something further to cause his own arrest, what is the value of the protest?

Now if we switch perspective and look at this as a violation of one's constitutional right to freely travel between the several states, you could then announce after being denied that you will be suing all persons and agencies which conspire to deny your right to travel.  You may not get anywhere with that, but you might find some group equally against Read ID that might go for that (providing either lawyers or money).

Someone will have to do more research on the basis of the constitutional guarantee of freedom of travel, most of what I can find is footnotes noting it.

Quote
As emphasized in MR. JUSTICE HARLAN'S separate opinion, 241 protects only against interference with rights secured by other federal laws or by the Constitution itself. The right to interstate travel is a right that the Constitution itself guarantees, as the cases cited in the text make clear. Although these cases in fact involved governmental interference with the right of free interstate travel, [383 U.S. 745, 760]   their reasoning fully supports the conclusion that the constitutional right of interstate travel is a right secured against interference from any source whatever, whether governmental or private. In this connection, it is important to reiterate that the right to travel freely from State to State finds constitutional protection that is quite independent of the Fourteenth Amendment. We are not concerned here with the extent to which interstate travel may be regulated or controlled by the exercise of a State's police power acting within the confines of the Fourteenth Amendment. See Edwards v. California, 314 U.S. 160, 184 (concurring opinion); New York v. O'Neill, 359 U.S. 1, 6 -8. Nor is there any issue here as to the permissible extent of federal interference with the right within the confines of the Due Process Clause of the Fifth Amendment. Cf. Zemel v. Rusk, 381 U.S. 1 ; Aptheker v. Secretary of State, 378 U.S. 500 ; Kent v. Dulles, 357 U.S. 116 . [383 U.S. 745, 761]

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 10:57 PM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 10:34 PM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.? Nothing will have been achieved.

It's funny.

Those are the EXACT words someone used to warn me about the manicure event.

Sorry, Mike, but your protest has ALREADY been forgotten.? The crew turning its attention to a different project will assure that it remains so.

Nobody is forcing you to particapate. So don't. Your comments are very insulting.

Quote from: Pat K on May 18, 2005, 02:12 AM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 10:57 PM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 10:34 PM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.  Nothing will have been achieved.

It's funny.

Those are the EXACT words someone used to warn me about the manicure event.

Sorry, Mike, but your protest has ALREADY been forgotten.  The crew turning its attention to a different project will assure that it remains so.

Nobody is forcing you to particapate. So don't. Your comments are very insulting.

I wouldn't take advice of some unidentified person.  His purpose here may be just to discourage any action.

I don't see what any of this has to do with National ID cards.  We are not subject to them, yet.
I know airlines require some sort of government generated ID, because, the government forces them to, but, even before 911, they had an obligation to protect ther passengers, by identifying everyone who gets on the plane.
I, too, don't see how far this can go, without violating ZAP, if, you get past the front door.
This could put you on the 'no fly list'.
We have an airline expert in Keene.  Has anyone asked him about this?

Many otherwise law abiding people have trouble in NH getting a driver's license because of the crazy ID requirements to get it.  I know a nice mommie who can't because she doesn't have the piece of paper from the government saying why she changed her name from her birth certificate name (she got married).  I know another person who can't get a NH driver's license because he doesn't have a birth certificate.  He's never lived in any other country and has had driver's licenses from other states, as does the nice mommie.  When the national ID card standards are in place, these kinds of problems will be nationwide and worse with the additional requirements they'll be asking for.  Many people will not be allowed to fly from lack of proper government papers.  The weird database problems we've seen with the No Fly list can be all over, not just on the airlines.

Rather than block the entry to the terminal he could just step aside and then keep coming back during until they arrest him.   Presumably he could wait until the line is short before returning each time.  I wonder if we should put something more specific in the press release regarding ways we could work *with* the TSA to ensure minimal inconvenience for passengers behind Russell.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 04:34 PM NHFT
I pledge $50 if Russell is fined.

I ain't payin no stinkin fines :)

Asking to go through security is not an arrest-able offense so far as I know (but there are those secret laws).  If he went up each time the person asking for ID changed, at best someone from the airport would ask him to leave the property, and what then?  Only by taking some other arrest-able action after he is denied entry could he be arrest-able unless someone overstepped their bounds.  An unlikely event if this protest is publicized in advance and those in the airport are aware of it.

Apparently the right to travel line is being explored, but it might be interesting to get such a case in a district slightly less wacky than the 9th.

http://www.papersplease.org/gilmore/index.html

I am attempting to travel without the permission of the US government. I don't think I will be slowing anyone else down....and if I did...it would be the governments fault...not mine. If I listened to the government, I couldn't even drive a car. They keep pushing and pushing and I am not going to take it anymore. I want to go to Philadelphia....and I don't recognize their right to stop me.
You can decide if you agree with me or if the government should direct where, how and when we can travel.

Since Gilmore took 'no' for an answer....all he can due is sue the government.....and stay in San Francisco. I am not appealing to the constitution......I just want to be free to travel. I shouldn't need the governments license/ID to do that.

That's fine, and I agree with that sentiment and desire. ?How do you intend to do this? ?If you go to security and refuse to show ID, you have not broken any public law, though who knows how many secret laws you're breaking. ?What can you do then that does not violate ZAP to make your point? ?Eventually if you just stand there you will be asked to leave before they try to arrest you, and if you refuse to move you will not be arrested for refusing to show ID, it will be for causing a public disturbance or some other catch-all charge like that. ?This is not a fight that can be fought like Mike's was. ?He wanted to bring forward debate on the merits of licensing businesses, and he succeeded. ?So far as I know he has no desire to actually set up a manicuring business without a license. ?Either you want to bring forward debate on the merits of the government requiring ID to travel, or you want to actually be able to travel with ID. ?If it's the first you may or may not be able to generate some debate based on how you conduct this act of civil disobedience, but it will be like the weather, everyone talks about it, but nobody does anything about it. ?Since this is a federal un-law, the only way to get it un-un-lawed is Congress or the courts. ?When a former congressman was hassled trying to get on board a plane and told she wasn't allowed to know what laws they were using against here, I got the impression it might be up to the courts. ?To go to the courts you need standing. ?Wanting to fly without ID isn't enough; you need to be denied the ability to fly without ID. ?At that point you can file suit for your constitutional right to travel without being hassled by the man. ?If you go down this road you'll have my full moral support. ?That and $3 or so will get you a cup of coffee at Starbucks.

http://www.parapolitics.info/phorum/read.php?f=34&i=317&t=317

Quote from: Pat K on May 18, 2005, 02:12 AM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 10:57 PM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 10:34 PM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.  Nothing will have been achieved.

It's funny.

Those are the EXACT words someone used to warn me about the manicure event.

Sorry, Mike, but your protest has ALREADY been forgotten.  The crew turning its attention to a different project will assure that it remains so.

Nobody is forcing you to particapate. So don't. Your comments are very insulting.

I am sorry that you find the truth insulting.  It is very easy to get together with a group of friends and pat one another on the back for a "job well done", but that is a terrible measure of success.  That's what I'm seeing here.

While I am certainly not participating in this protest, this approach generally (if not specific protests) will have negative consequences for the freedom movement in New Hampshire, particularly those with some relationship with free staters.  Those consequences are developing now, even if you cannot see them.

I want to travel without government restrictions. I don't want to go to court about it...I just want to do it. If they let me do it....then I have succeeded. I don't want to be arrested...but if they stop me I will continue to move forward.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 18, 2005, 08:25 AM NHFT
While I am certainly not participating in this protest, this approach generally (if not specific protests) will have negative consequences for the freedom movement in New Hampshire, particularly those with some relationship with free staters.? Those consequences are developing now, even if you cannot see them.

I don't care how this reflects on free staters....that is not the point of this.
We shouldn't have to accomodate our behaviour to fit political correctness.
I want to go to Philadelphia....and I don't want the STATE to get in my way.
I am looking forward to the day when traveling without ID is no longer unusual or newsworthy. :D

Quote from: katdillon on May 18, 2005, 03:24 AM NHFT
I wouldn't take advice of some unidentified person.  His purpose here may be just to discourage any action.

My purpose is not to discourage action generally, but to discourage THIS action, and encourage action that I feel will be effective.

I had mixed feelings on Mike Fisher's license protest.  Although it was perfectly legitimate way of protesting an injustice, I do not believe it was effective.  Ghandi is a great inspiration, but missing from Ghandi's formula in Mike's protest is the sense of nationhood that Ghandi had tapped into.  Would Ghandi's salt march have been as effective if the salt license were imposed by an Indian government rather than a British one?  I somehow doubt it.

Regardless of that protest's flaws, I am perplexed that this group here seems intent on leaving the momentum, perceived or real, from that protest, and is now moving on to something unrelated.  Its like you want to fail.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 10:57 PM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 10:34 PM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.? Nothing will have been achieved.

It's funny.

Those are the EXACT words someone used to warn me about the manicure event.

Sorry, Mike, but your protest has ALREADY been forgotten.? The crew turning its attention to a different project will assure that it remains so.

Constructive criticism is great. ?Your destructive criticism is not at all welcome with me. ?It is not necessary to say that my protest resulted in significant media coverage and public debate, far more than Gandhi's first act of civil disobedience. ?His first act was to refuse to comply with racial segregation rules on a train in Pietermaritzburg, which resulted in him being forcibly ejected from a train. ?As far as I know, there was NO media coverage of this event until later during his satyagraha campaign.

A successful satyagraha campaign takes years. ?Its goals cannot be accomplished overnight. ?Do not insult us because of your impatience.

It takes years to create change because people are rightfully slow to change.  We will continue to present our ideas, and the public can take its time deciding whether or not to support us.  An event every year or two should be sufficient unless the momentum becomes too great.  We are not at that point yet.  We must take one step at a time.

Maybe in the future we can do something that ties Mikes license event more closely with my ID event.
Mike wanted to show how silly a certain rule was....and he did it.....I can see more people doing what he did.....

...but this time.....I just want to travel freely 8)

Quote from: russellkanning on May 18, 2005, 08:31 AM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 18, 2005, 08:25 AM NHFT
While I am certainly not participating in this protest, this approach generally (if not specific protests) will have negative consequences for the freedom movement in New Hampshire, particularly those with some relationship with free staters.  Those consequences are developing now, even if you cannot see them.

I don't care how this reflects on free staters....that is not the point of this.
We shouldn't have to accomodate our behaviour to fit political correctness.
I want to go to Philadelphia....and I don't want the STATE to get in my way.
I am looking forward to the day when traveling without ID is no longer unusual or newsworthy. :D

This is the classic non-approach used by libertarians everywhere.  You know where we need to be, but have no idea how to get there.   Most libertarians think that talking alone will get us there.  At least you're beyond that.  But your understanding of what action is needed is deeply flawed.  This will not get you from here to there.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 18, 2005, 08:13 AM NHFT
Since Gilmore took 'no' for an answer....all he can due is sue the government.....and stay in San Francisco. I am not appealing to the constitution......I just want to be free to travel. I shouldn't need the governments license/ID to do that.

Exactly.

If you tell everyone in advance what you will be doing, then they will expect you to say "I refuse to take no for an answer." ?They will arrest you, like they arrested me, for saying that you refuse to cooperate. ?If a civil disobedience event is planned in public and announced to all concerned parties, the result will be much more desirable. ?Your plan must be exact. ?Write polite letters to the bureaucrats in charge if necessary, protesting against the law, telling them honestly about your plans, and asking for them to be prepared to enforce the law. ?Remind them that you are not refusing to physically cooperate with people, only with systems and laws.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 18, 2005, 08:28 AM NHFT
I want to travel without government restrictions. I don't want to go to court about it...I just want to do it. If they let me do it....then I have succeeded. I don't want to be arrested...but if they stop me I will continue to move forward.

Good luck with that, but it sounds as if it violates ZAP. ?You won't be arrested for failing to show ID, but if you are arrested for attempting to violate airport security by pressing forward when someone stands in your way . . . battery perhaps or something else. ?Even though the federal government controls security, I'm not sure if they have jurisdiction there or not for prosecution. ?It's likely it will fall to state troopers.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 18, 2005, 08:55 AM NHFTIf you tell everyone in advance what you will be doing, then they will expect you to say "I refuse to take no for an answer."

That is a good idea. :)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 18, 2005, 08:41 AM NHFT
A successful satyagraha campaign takes years.  Its goals cannot be accomplished overnight.  Do not insult us because of your impatience.

Well, good luck with it.  I have serious doubts of course, but I hope I am proven wrong.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 18, 2005, 08:55 AM NHFT
If you tell everyone in advance what you will be doing, then they will expect you to say "I refuse to take no for an answer." ?They will arrest you, like they arrested me, for saying that you refuse to cooperate. ?If a civil disobedience event is planned in public and announced to all concerned parties, the result will be much more desirable. ?Your plan must be exact. ?Write polite letters to the bureaucrats in charge if necessary, protesting against the law, telling them honestly about your plans, and asking for them to be prepared to enforce the law. ?Remind them that you are not refusing to physically cooperate with people, only with systems and laws.

You were actually violating a law, they had no choice but to arrest you when you refused to stop. ?Russell will not be violating a law by refusing to show ID, he will be violating a law when he physically touches someone standing in his way after he refuses to show ID. ?My understanding of ZAP is not perfect, I will admit, but I'm fairly sure that doesn't fit with it.

Hey maybe I could attract some libertarian protesters......you never know I might trip and violate ZAP ;)

Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 17, 2005, 10:59 PM NHFT
draft press release, suggestions welcome

VERY NICE, Dave! ?:) :)

A few changes:

"My goal is to get on the plane with no I.D., if it's this time or next time...I'll just keep trying to do it."

Maybe you could say: ?"I'm going to politely refuse to show my ID. ?I will communicate to security that I will not give up until I am forced to stop."

"We'll go slowly, we'll talk with them, we might even tell them everything we're going to do ahead of time. ?We're *not* trying to hurt anybody," he says.

How about: ?"we have already told them everything we're going to do ahead of time." ?This press release should be sent at the same time as a letter to the TSA.

"In South Africa (where Gandhi's protests began), Indians had to have special I.D...so it's very similar that way, and he wanted to burn it...He was appealing to that same basic idea that we have rights to not have to have paperwork to be able to move freely."

How about: ?"When visiting South Africa, Gandhi refused to comply with racial segregation laws and was forcefully ejected from a train. ?Non-whites were issued special travel IDs in that country, so he organized an event to burn these IDs in protest. ?These were his first acts of civil disobedience."

Kanning says Fisher's example inspired him to take similar action against personal licensing, which affects far more people.

Correction: ?Everyone is affected by licensing laws and ID travel requirements.

Perhaps include something about Germany in the 1940s - police everywhere, countless government agents always asking, "your papers, please." ?Also if we could have a statement such as "Americans were never required to show ID to travel prior to (year)..." ?We need more facts to make our case stronger to the public.

Quote from: JonM on May 18, 2005, 08:59 AM NHFT
You were actually violating a law, they had no choice but to arrest you when you refused to stop. ?Russell will not be violating a law by refusing to show ID, he will be violating a law when he physically touches someone standing in his way after he refuses to show ID. ?My understanding of ZAP is not perfect, I will admit, but I'm fairly sure that doesn't fit with it.

Nah!  When Russell warns them to be prepared for his visit, they'll be ready to arrest him as soon as he says "I refuse to show my ID, and I will not leave until forced to leave."  He'll be arrested far more quickly in an airport security situation than on the front lawn of the Board of Cosmetology.  ;)

It might just be a matter of how fast they wisk me off to Guantanamo

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 18, 2005, 09:25 AM NHFT

Quote from: JonM on May 18, 2005, 08:59 AM NHFT
You were actually violating a law, they had no choice but to arrest you when you refused to stop. ?Russell will not be violating a law by refusing to show ID, he will be violating a law when he physically touches someone standing in his way after he refuses to show ID. ?My understanding of ZAP is not perfect, I will admit, but I'm fairly sure that doesn't fit with it.

Nah!? When Russell warns them to be prepared for his visit, they'll be ready to arrest him as soon as he says "I refuse to show my ID, and I will not leave until forced to leave."? He'll be arrested far more quickly in an airport security situation than on the front lawn of the Board of Cosmetology.? ;)

What will they arrest him for?  I say again, you were violating a law, but not showing an ID to the security screener at the airport is not illegal.  Trying to physically get past said screener is.

Quote from: JonM on May 18, 2005, 09:29 AM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 18, 2005, 09:25 AM NHFT
Nah!? When Russell warns them to be prepared for his visit, they'll be ready to arrest him as soon as he says "I refuse to show my ID, and I will not leave until forced to leave."? He'll be arrested far more quickly in an airport security situation than on the front lawn of the Board of Cosmetology.? ;)

What will they arrest him for?? I say again, you were violating a law, but not showing an ID to the security screener at the airport is not illegal.? Trying to physically get past said screener is.

They'll arrest him for refusing to cooperate with security screeners.  Saying you will refuse to cooperate or leave is a pretty clear method of not cooperating.  It may turn out to be a simple trespassing or criminal trespassing charge, but I doubt it.  They'll hit him with refusing to cooperate with security and probably jail him for a day or two and fine him a grand.  That's the best case scenario.  Worst case scenario?  Who knows?

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 18, 2005, 08:52 AM NHFT
This is the classic non-approach used by libertarians everywhere.  You know where we need to be, but have no idea how to get there.   Most libertarians think that talking alone will get us there.  At least you're beyond that.  But your understanding of what action is needed is deeply flawed.  This will not get you from here to there.

Talk is cheap.  Are you doing anything in NH beyond critiquing?

By the way you can listen to Free Talk Live discussing this situation here:  http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL051705B.mp3

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 18, 2005, 08:25 AM NHFT
While I am certainly not participating in this protest, this approach generally (if not specific protests) will have negative consequences for the freedom movement in New Hampshire, particularly those with some relationship with free staters.? Those consequences are developing now, even if you cannot see them.

Whhyyyyy... If'ins yous sayin' that y'all got news no other varmint in here done have, steps forwards with it boy! Otherwisin' dat's be soundin' like somethin' Charlie Proulx be sayins...... Ceptin' he's been busy with his con-spir-a-cies theories he be spoutin' this week on end..

JM  ;D

Won't it be great when we don't have to show ID anymore. 8)

Well, once again good luck. ?I doubt he can get arrested for not cooperating with security, as that isn't illegal. ?Actually violating a law is a key ingredient in forcing the police to arrest you. ?The people running airports aren't stupid, they will avoid giving Russell what he wants if they can. ?Since Mike actually was violating a law, the police couldn't not arrest him without making a mockery of the law. ?Since Russell won't be violating a law unless he attempts to force his way past security, they don't have to arrest him unless he refuses to depart the airport when they eventually ask him to leave, then tell him to leave.

So the best bet to get arrested seems to me to be:
Airport official: Look, you have no ID, you can't get through security, thus you can't fly, please leave.
Russell: No, it is my right to travel, I want to travel.
Police: They asked you to go, please leave.
Russell: No, it is my right to travel, I want to travel.
Police: Please come with me sir.
Russell: No, it is my right to travel, I want to travel.
Police: Fine, you're under arrest.

I don't see it landing as high on the public support meter as Mike's protest, but I've made a life of not being exactly right on my predictions, so why change now?

That could be how it goes.....that will not be a disappointment :)

Quote from: president on May 18, 2005, 10:42 AM NHFT

I would never discourage y'all from doing this kind of stuff.? 8)

I was hoping you were going to join me. :)

Quote from: president on May 18, 2005, 10:42 AM NHFT
This is the strangest comment coming from a radio talk show host.

Talk is cheap, but when doing it for a living, some extra costs are incurred.

Don't talk show hosts have the best idea of exactly how cheap it is? ;)

BTW I just love making Ian wish he was already in NH. ;D

In Boston they swabbed our daughters bag.....I guess for explosives.....maybe she fits a profile.....13 wearing pink....pink handbag.....

Strangely enough the speaker at my Kiwanis club yesterday was the director of security for Logan Airport.  He said they liked to do things randomly just in case people were casing the system.

Suspected Terrorist

[attachment deleted by admin]

Quote from: JonM on May 18, 2005, 11:58 AM NHFT
Strangely enough the speaker at my Kiwanis club yesterday was the director of security for Logan Airport.? He said they liked to do things randomly just in case people were casing the system.

That would almost have to be random.

Quote from: president on May 18, 2005, 11:28 AM NHFT
like the 10k for the studio?

Yeah, that kind of stuff.  Not to mention the countless hours I've spent calling radio stations.. at $50 an hour... there's been a lot invested.

Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on May 18, 2005, 07:00 AM NHFT
I know airlines require some sort of government generated ID, because, the government forces them to, but, even before 911, they had an obligation to protect ther passengers, by identifying everyone who gets on the plane.

Just gotta respond to this one.

What does your identity have to do with protection? Not all terrorists are going to be on some list, so asking for ID is pointless. The real way to make the flight secure is to allow passengers to defend themselves against terrorists (or just make sure everyone is weaponless - make them all get lobotomies since the brain is the most dangerous weapon  >:D )

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 18, 2005, 08:25 AM NHFT

Quote from: Pat K on May 18, 2005, 02:12 AM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 10:57 PM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 17, 2005, 10:34 PM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 17, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
You will be arrested, and your protest forgotten.? Nothing will have been achieved.

It's funny.

Those are the EXACT words someone used to warn me about the manicure event.

Sorry, Mike, but your protest has ALREADY been forgotten.? The crew turning its attention to a different project will assure that it remains so.

Nobody is forcing you to particapate. So don't. Your comments are very insulting.

I am sorry that you find the truth insulting.? It is very easy to get together with a group of friends and pat one another on the back for a "job well done", but that is a terrible measure of success.? That's what I'm seeing here.

While I am certainly not participating in this protest, this approach generally (if not specific protests) will have negative consequences for the freedom movement in New Hampshire, particularly those with some relationship with free staters.? Those consequences are developing now, even if you cannot see them.

The terms  you used "childish clowns" and" imbeciles with ADD "are insulting. At least to most people, but perhaps your upbringing  was a little lacking and you don't know the differance.

Quote from: rhelwig on May 18, 2005, 04:22 PM NHFT

Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on May 18, 2005, 07:00 AM NHFT
I know airlines require some sort of government generated ID, because, the government forces them to, but, even before 911, they had an obligation to protect ther passengers, by identifying everyone who gets on the plane.

Just gotta respond to this one.

What does your identity have to do with protection? Not all terrorists are going to be on some list, so asking for ID is pointless. The real way to make the flight secure is to allow passengers to defend themselves against terrorists (or just make sure everyone is weaponless - make them all get lobotomies since the brain is the most dangerous weapon? >:D )

OK.  It's their plane. They can require that you identify yourself, just, 'cause they feel like it.
Lobotomise? No. They, pretty much, have to stick to the methods they use, required by the government:  exray, metal detectors and rules about what can be taken aboard.
They shouldn't have waited for the government to force them to do it.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 18, 2005, 08:25 AM NHFT

While I am certainly not participating in this protest, this approach generally (if not specific protests) will have negative consequences for the freedom movement in New Hampshire, particularly those with some relationship with free staters.? Those consequences are developing now, even if you cannot see them.

That is a 'stretch'.? You have, totally, pulled it out of your ass!? What is your evidence?

I can't wait to see the tsa guys with their serious faces. :D

Quote from: president on May 18, 2005, 10:42 AM NHFT
Anyway, I pretty much agree with what Neo Hantoni has stated in this thread.

The only place I see Mike's civil disobedience event discussed is in FSP related forums, or by FSP member, and a few news stories that came and went. I have not heard one person mention Mike's civil disobedience event outside of those places. There is not much public debate, if any, from what I can see. As long as Mike is happy with the results, that is all that matters.

This is absolutely untrue.  Many, many people I meet have been talking about these issues and have questions about licensing when they meet me.  Many people have heard about this event and discussed it among themselves.

We forced people to think about licensing.  It's unfortunate that you do not see this.

The editorial staff of three different newspapers, including the state's largest paper, have all written lengthy editorials discussing the issue of licensing laws and taking a position on it (2 for licensing, largest paper against licensing).  For my first event of civil disobedience ever, I'd say that's pretty good.

Try to minimize it all you want.  The facts speak for themselves.  This is off to a great start, and these things take years.

One major thing that you could say to the media in this protest is that only 4 years ago, no ID was necessary to enter an airport!? Our country is MUCH less free now than it was before 9/11, and this is PROOF of it!

Quote from: JonM on May 18, 2005, 11:58 AM NHFT
Strangely enough the speaker at my Kiwanis club yesterday was the director of security for Logan Airport.? He said they liked to do things randomly just in case people were casing the system.

I heard that they test young kids and old people so that when they test 'middle eastern people' they can 'prove' that it is a random search.

What do they do if you lost your ID?  I mean if my wallet was lost/stolen this week I would be stuck in Chicago.
On my flight here last night I got the total pat down search in Oakland once again for not taking my shoes off.

Have fun in Philly Russell!!

If I make it there....you'll know we have won!

All I know is that I feel blatantly violated every single time I enter a courthouse or airport, whether or not they pat me down. ?I have to strip down and even remove my coat, belt, shoes, and hair tie then get dressed again in front of everyone. ?It's very embarrassing.

Do you want to know what it reminds me of?  It feels exactly like being arrested on May 9th.  It feels EXACTLY like being booked into jail.  This practice is embarrassing and NOT suitable for a free country.

Look at the bright side. ?We'll get more support from the Left on this issue than we did with the anti-licensing event.

It is NOT a radical idea to propose that we at least go back to our pre-9/11 freedoms.

I'm surprised airport security does not yet force us to take a shower and wear orange prison clothes on the airplane.

At least that would accurately reflect our status as prisoners while we're traveling by plane.

When you really get into the details of why you are required to show ID...

This is actually a protest against the recent federalization of airport security!

http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-20-01.html

Maybe we should fly naked! ::)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 18, 2005, 09:09 PM NHFT
When you really get into the details of why you are required to show ID...

This is actually a protest against the recent federalization of airport security!

http://www.cato.org/dailys/10-20-01.html

What really pisses me off is that it is federal so it should mean one standard for every airport but whenever I ask questions to the guards they give different answers.  And I always say 'Do you guys get standard training?' etc etc...

Ahhhhh  and I have to fly about every other week.

Yeah! show up wearing a jock-strap and socks!

LP RELEASE: Airport security
October 23, 2001
http://www.umich.edu/~umisl/lnews/102301.htm

Federalizing airport security:
Will air travelers be less safe?

WASHINGTON, DC -- Federalizing airport security would be a catastrophic blunder -- unless Americans want to risk putting their lives in the hands of a security system with the perpetual long lines of the DMV, the "torment-the-customer" focus of the IRS, and the corruption of HUD, the Libertarian Party said today.

What if I wear really baggy pants and when I take off my belt I let me pants fall to my ankles and 'shuffle' through the metal detector.

Or wear pants with metal embedded in them and have to take the pants off and walk through in undies.

Also don't forget no more lighters allowed!!!

I feel safer already.

Okay, I've modified Dada Orwell's original release.? Let me know if you approve so we can release it!? :)

From NHFree.com, 5/18/05


Manchester, NH, May 18, 2005 - Inspired by New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," another Granite Stater is stepping forward - literally - to defy license-related laws.? Russell Kanning of Keene has announced he will approach a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) checkpoint at Manchester airport on June 11 and refuse to cooperate with the requirement to show ID until he is arrested.

"In a free country," he says, "you do not need the government's permission to travel."? "My goal is to visit Independence Hall by flying to Philadelphia, but I will refuse to show identification.? Before airport security was federalized in 2001, I was free to do this, but not anymore."

Only two months after the September 11th attacks, the Aviation Security Act federalized airport security nationwide, and granted unprecedented police powers to the TSA.? Now, an ID is mandatory to enter an airport, passengers must travel alone past security checkpoints, and random full-body searches in public are considered normal.

Kanning stresses that he will not resist arrest or do anything that might be perceived as physically threatening.? He says this act of nonviolent resistance will follow the model laid down by Gandhi, who used peaceful noncooperation to expel the British from India.? "We will tell them everything we're going to do ahead of time.? We are not going to disrupt the operation of the airport," he says.

But Kanning says the parallels with Gandhi's situation go further than a shared belief in nonviolence.? "In South Africa, where Gandhi's protests began, non-whites were required to have a special form of ID to walk in public.? To fight against this law, he organized an event to burn these forms of ID."

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.? After announcing he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, he followed through with his plans, earned a brief trip to jail, and received heavy regional media coverage for his point of view.

Kanning says Gandhi's and Fisher's examples inspired him to take similar action against the growing surveillance state.? He believes the Real ID amendment passed by the Senate this month will make things even worse.? But he says it's important to stay positive.? ?"Our goal is to be able to travel in privacy and end the federalization of airport security.? This is only the beginning."

Currently the plan is for Kanning to approach the security checkpoint at noon.? He may change the time if necessary to avoid delaying other passengers.

Summary:

What:? Civil disobedience against ID requirements under federalized airport security.
Where:? Manchester Airport in New Hampshire (exact spot to be determined)
When:? Saturday, June 11 @ noon
Who:? Russell Kanning of Keene, NH, supporters from NHfree.com
Why:? To draw attention to the recent and continuing loss of privacy and freedom due to federalized airport security and National ID.
How:? By approaching a TSA checkpoint with a ticket but no ID, refusing to show ID, and refusing to cooperate with the law until arrested or allowed to board the plane.
Contacts:? Russell Kanning:? (603) 357-2049,? Kat Dillon (same number), Mike Fisher (603) 498-7935.  More contacts and details to appear in future releases, which will be posted to NHfree.com.

You might want to read (and point people to)

http://papersplease.org/gilmore/index.html

John Gilmore has _money_ to spend on this... he's rich thanks to Sun...

if nothing else, get him involved...

Thanks Seth, will contact him today.

Looks good enough for me, Mike. I will want to start things before noon though. I should head toward the gate at noon.

I think I will go with the phrase:     "Freedom to Travel"

So this would be one of the first "Freedom to Travel" events. :D

Any of you who want to help promote this event.....it would be great if we could let everyone, who is talking/writing about the Real ID and similar issues, know that our group is doing something about it. Other individuals/groups are welcome to use this event as a platform for freedom issues. Invite them to come talk to the onlookers, agents and press about freedom in America. If they want to stage similar events.....all the better.

We are going to have Freedom to Travel......it is just a matter of time. :)

A reporter named Beth with the Portsmouth Herald called this morning.  She wants to write an article about us for the Boston Globe, specifically about those who have moved from Massachusettes to New Hampshire.  Please contact me if you fit this profile.

She also wants to write a book about us!   :o :o :o

I told her about this event and she expressed support for it, joking that even matchbooks are now banned on flights.  ::)

She is more interested in news regarding anyone from the Seacoast area, but I believe she'll report on this when it happens because of the link to my event on the 9th.

PattyE moved from just over the border.....JonM would know if she wants to be interviewed. 8)

JP of coarse.....but I don't think he likes to talk to the press ;)

Maybe JohnC would like to talk about moving "HOME" ;D

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 06:46 AM NHFT
Looks good enough for me, Mike. I will want to start things before noon though. I should head toward the gate at noon.

I've changed it again to reflect this.

Do you want me to send it out to all of my press contacts? ?Actually... wait a minute...

Before I release it to the press, you should probably write a letter to:

Kevin A. Dillon, Airport Director, Manchester Airport
Manchester Airport
One Airport Road
Manchester, NH 03103
kdillon@flymanchester.com

TSA - 9 Transportation Security Policy
Transportation Security Administration
601 South 12th Street
Arlington, VA ?22202-4220

TSA - 20 Security
Transportation Security Administration
601 South 12th Street
Arlington, VA ?22202-4220

http://www.tsa.gov/public/display?theme=7&content=090005198009405f

Can you think of anyone else to write a letter to?

Do you want me to help write it?

Yea ...it would be good if you could help write it......this event isn't about me......I just happen to be the only one participating this time. You could write on behalf of your friend (me) or the group. We might as well multiply our efforts....and we can't do that very well if I have to approve everything. :) If we just keep the message simple....then people should get the idea.

I want to have "Freedom to Travel"....for me and everyone :D

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 19, 2005, 08:18 AM NHFT
A reporter named Beth with the Portsmouth Herald called this morning.  She wants to write an article about us for the Boston Globe, specifically about those who have moved from Massachusettes to New Hampshire.  Please contact me if you fit this profile.

She also wants to write a book about us!   :o :o :o

I told her about this event and she expressed support for it, joking that even matchbooks are now banned on flights.  ::)

She is more interested in news regarding anyone from the Seacoast area, but I believe she'll report on this when it happens because of the link to my event on the 9th.

I emailed JP and PattyE about this.  I assume John will read about it here.

I prefer to look through rose-colored glasses.....the world looks better.....you should try it.

I think Paul in the bible called it "being joyful always" 8)

Quote from: president on May 19, 2005, 08:48 AM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 18, 2005, 07:58 PM NHFT

Quote from: president on May 18, 2005, 10:42 AM NHFT
Anyway, I pretty much agree with what Neo Hantoni has stated in this thread.

The only place I see Mike's civil disobedience event discussed is in FSP related forums, or by FSP member, and a few news stories that came and went. I have not heard one person mention Mike's civil disobedience event outside of those places. There is not much public debate, if any, from what I can see. As long as Mike is happy with the results, that is all that matters.

This is absolutely untrue.
.....
Try to minimize it all you want.

It's pretty funny that you would claim my experience is absolutely untrue. How can you make such an absurd claim?
I'm not trying to minimize, I am telling you what I have experienced in NH.
I don't care if you believe me. Since you claim what I said was untrue, please tell me who has talked to me about your event/arrest.

You have rose colored glasses on. You can only see things from your own perspective.

"There is not much public debate, if any, from what I can see.  As long as Mike is happy with the results, that is all that matters."

That is the point I refuted.  Quit arguing over a minor detail of your post.  There is public debate, but you wish to minimize it in order to... I don't know... to annoy me?

You need to learn good manners and honesty in speech and action.  I sometimes wonder why Truth and the Golden Rule are completely lost among so many people.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 08:33 AM NHFT
Yea ...it would be good if you could help write it......this event isn't about me......I just happen to be the only one participating this time. You could write on behalf of your friend (me) or the group. We might as well multiply our efforts....and we can't do that very well if I have to approve everything. :) If we just keep the message simple....then people should get the idea.

I want to have "Freedom to Travel"....for me and everyone :D

I have to get your approval because you are the one taking the risks in this event. ?You must approve what is written when it comes to quoting you. ?This time it IS about you. ?You are in complete control, and you must take full responsibility for anything resembling a quote or claim on your behalf. ?I'll do what I can to help, but you still need to approve everything that "Russell Kanning" says! ?;)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 19, 2005, 09:25 AM NHFT
You are in complete control

Oh lordy, don't tell him that!   :o  ;D

Okey dokey

I would love some help writing all of the government officials and all the media contacts.
Just post them here and I will OK them right away. 8)

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 09:27 AM NHFT
Okey dokey

I would love some help writing all of the government officials and all the media contacts.
Just post them here and I will OK them right away. 8)

Uhhh okay?  :)

Hey ... maybe we will also get some people to join me before the event too. 8)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 19, 2005, 09:28 AM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 09:27 AM NHFT
Okey dokey

I would love some help writing all of the government officials and all the media contacts.
Just post them here and I will OK them right away. 8)

Uhhh okay?? :)

Mike could you write up something for the government officials? I can just make sure I am actually going to do all the things you write down. ;D

I also like the current press release you have made. You can send them out to anyone. Those are definitely my words and thinking. 8)

So what do we do when I actually make it to Philadelphia? I guess that could come in a later press release......so they will know what to do, if I make it through. :)

with regard to the complaint that this protest is not "silly" enough or innocuous enough, I should point out that the complaint about Mike's protest, which I heard repeatedly on other web forums, was that it was *too* innocuous.   Many people wanted him to be protesting more of a "staple"  issue or said that you couldn't compare salt and manicuring.   Mike did get a lot of mileage out of the innocuousness of manicuring.  This protest will speak to those people who want their "staple".

I"m thrilled you guys have taken my press release and run with it!  'specially since i'm not very available to modify it right now.   I haven't looked at it in detail yet but am just glad no one is waiting around for one person to do all the press release stuff.

I hope folks will use the latest press releases as the information source to write LTE's between now and June 5 so they can appear before the event.

   Mike I do think the original headline may have been better but don't let my carping discourage you from grabbing these thigns and running with em! 

also we need to get another contact or two in there...workign on it.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 09:31 AM NHFT
Mike could you write up something for the government officials? I can just make sure I am actually going to do all the things you write down. ;D

Kanning says he will grovel and kiss the feet of any TSA employees as a sign of submission. ?He added, "I don't want to be noticed in life. ?If I break the rules, then people might think I'm a bad person. ?I'm not bad, I'm a subservient God Fearing Patriotic American! ?The rules are there for a reason - who am I to question them?"

He concluded, "if I have nothing to hide, then what do I care if they want to stripsearch me? ?I'm not a terrorist or anything!"

Your right, Dave.  My headline makes no sense!

I changed the headline back to normal and added myself as a press contact.  They can't arrest me for being a press contact, so I'll be happy to do it!  :)

Quote from: president on May 19, 2005, 09:44 AM NHFT
Don't forget to contact the media in philly for the return flight. You will be doning the same thing again to get back, right?
You can get some coverage there too.

I haven't quite decided what to do for the return flight......right now....if I make it through.....I was going to have come down and join me and celebrate.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 19, 2005, 09:46 AM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 09:31 AM NHFT
Mike could you write up something for the government officials? I can just make sure I am actually going to do all the things you write down. ;D

Kanning says he will grovel and kiss the feet of any TSA employees as a sign of submission. ?He added, "I don't want to be noticed in life. ?If I break the rules, then people might think I'm a bad person. ?I'm not bad, I'm a subservient God Fearing Patriotic American! ?The rules are there for a reason - who am I to question them?"

He concluded, "if I have nothing to hide, then what do I care if they want to stripsearch me? ?I'm not a terrorist or anything!"

I almost like this idea......I don't want this to seem too serious.......maybe the tone of the letters can show that I am hoping to make it through without ID......we would prefer them to let me travel freely.....that would be much better than going to jail. 8)

Yeah, they'll let you though and call Philly and tell them not to let you come back!

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 09:57 AM NHFT
I almost like this idea......I don't want this to seem too serious.......maybe the tone of the letters can show that I am hoping to make it through without ID......we would prefer them to let me travel freely.....that would be much better than going to jail. 8)

We should remain hopeful, but reasonable. ?They will NOT let you through without ID unless they cave in to the pressure of the press. ? ;)

Can you imagine what it will be like the first time I get through? We can have a photo op with signs that say "Freedom to Travel" in front of Independance Hall 8)

There could be really sarcastic LTEs about this......patterned like Mike's one above. :D

The Press Release is up on the Wiki page along with links about the federalization of airport security:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=National+ID

After I get back from my appointment today, I'll write the letter to the authorities. ?When that's approved, I'll have you send that letter out through the mail and I'll send the press release to my press contacts around the state. ?:)

It struck me how totally absurd the whole idea of having to show "your papers" in order to travel really is. I can see it now, I'm driving along the highway, and at every town border there are security agents asking for my "papers". (The natural extension of this absurdity.)

OMG, this is so funny!!

Grandma Beats Up Airport Security Guards

by Bob Wallace

Charges were dropped yesterday against Ruth "Grammy" Gordon, an 83-year-old wheelchair-bound grandmother, who was originally charged with assault and battery, and assault with a deadly weapon, because an altercation she had last week with six airport security guards, that left all six hospitalized.

"Justice has been served," said the 95-pound mother of three and grandmother of six, as she sat in her wheelchair, aided in her breathing by an oxygen bottle. "Now I?m going to sue every fool in the federal government for ignorance, stupidity, and just plain general incompetence. I?m an American, and I won?t be treated like this."

The problem began last month as Gordon was attempting to board an airplane at the R.J. Squirrel Airport in Frostbite Falls, Minnesota. "These guys are supposed to be some kind of professionals," she said, "but they?re dumber than rocks. Here they were letting guys who looked just like terrorists walk through without searching them, and then they pull me aside and tell me they?re going to search me? I don?t think so."

According to one witness, Bud Cort of Cuyahoga Falls, Ohio, one guard, "who weighed about 300 pounds, looked like he was drunk, and had his shirt out, told this woman she couldn?t board the plane unless they searched her. He was really rude. That?s when the trouble started."

Videotapes showed that Gordon ran the guard down with her motorized wheelchair, then sat on top of the screaming man while spinning her chair in circles. "Doofus was so fat he couldn?t get up," said Gordon with a giggle.

One guard who attempted to pull Gordon?s wheelchair off of the screaming man from behind was hit over the head with an oxygen bottle and knocked unconscious. A third guard, who approached Gordon from the front, was also left dazed on the floor. Witnesses said she was cackling, "Put your hands on an old lady, will you?" as she bashed both guards.

The tape also showed a fourth guard attempting to grab Gordon?s wheelchair. Gordon removed a knitting needle from her purse and stabbed him in his left buttock. "What a wimp," she told reporters. "He started screaming and grabbing his butt and running like a puppy that someone kicked."

"It was amazing," said another witness, Scott Ryan, also of Cuyahoga Falls, a professor of music at Ohio Express University and author of Yusef Islam: Cat Stevens Declawed. "The whole crowd just stood there cheering and clapping. I mean, she was whupping butt."

A fifth guard that attempted to grab Gordon had the seat of his pants set on fire with a cigarette lighter than had escaped detection. "He just went whoosh across the concourse, screaming and slapping at all these flames flying out of his rear," said Ryan.

A sixth guard did finally manage to get Gordon in a body hug. "I think that was the wrong thing to do," said another witness, who declined to be identified. "She just grabbed him by his greasy hair with one hand and cracked him across the jaw with her skinny fist. And down and out he went."

After all this, Gordon?s chair was still sitting on top of the first guard. The tapes clearly showed her leaning over and yelling, "Apologize to me, you fat sumbitch, or when I?m done with you you?ll just be a greasy spot on the floor!"

As the crowd roared, the guard cried, "I?m sorry, I?m sorry! Uncle! I won?t do it again!"

Finally, Gordon surrendered without further incident, and was taken to jail and released on her own recognizance. "We didn?t have any choice," said an unidentified officer of the court. "Over 200 people showed up to support her. I think if we had demanded bail, there would have been a riot."

Over 20 lawyers offered to defend her for free. However, realizing the precariousness of the case, Gordon was not charged with anything. "I doubt there?s a jury in the whole country that would have found her guilty of anything," said one of the lawyers.

"I?m flying again tomorrow," Gordon told reporters. "And I suggest no one at the airport so much as look at me wrong."

All six guards, employees of the Bullwinkle Security Company, were taken to Badanov Hospital, treated for minor injuries, and released. "All of them are okay," said their doctor, who identified herself only as Natasha. "Just very minor injuries."

The owner of the security firm, a Mr. Big, said he considered his employees to be "fearless leaders.

Hooray for Granny!!!!!!!!  ;D

Russell should change his name to Granny!  ;)

I should get this fellow to write stuff for Shorty Dawkins.  8)

I also read the story about the pregnant wife......is this their favorite phrase?

"the head honcho told that I was under arrest and that I wouldn?t be flying that day"

I read that about John Gilmore also....it is somehow delightful for security personnel to ground the fliers that cross them in any way.

After reading that story about the pregnant wife.......I am reminded why we are doing this.....this madness has to end and it needs to end soon.

Hey Kat, where did you find this story? Maybe I'll try to get in touch with the writer.

Quote from: AlanM on May 19, 2005, 10:53 AM NHFT
Hey Kat, where did you find this story? Maybe I'll try to get in touch with the writer.

Mike put the stories up on the wiki page.  It came from here:

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace42.html

Or were you talking about the pregnant wife one?

The granny one.  ;D

Quote from: president on May 19, 2005, 10:59 AM NHFT
....and the story is fake...but what can you expect from lewrockwell.org

Gee, did you really have to go to snopes to check a story set in the R.J. Squirrel airport, in Frostbite Falls, MN?

Kevin

Well of course it's fake. I mean come on! R. J. Squirrell Airport?

Granny might not have been the initiator if they tried to search her person without permission.

Hey... before you guys start contacting the press, do any of you want moderator access to http://news.nhfree.com ?  If you will be contacting the press, it would be a simple matter to ask them each if they would like to be added to our press release / news list...

If you want moderator access, go join the list and get back to me.  I'll make the change, then you can go ahead and add email addresses, send releases, etc.

Thank you Ian....it is probably cleaner than sending them here.
I don't really do media contacting.....I leave that to the semi-experts.....I only play well with other revolutionaries. ;D

I love the granny story anyway.

I mentioned this event at lunch today and got quite a reaction. The 2 men thought it was crazy but cool....government tells us what to do too much/their security measures don't work anyways. The 2 ladies thought it wouldn't work and that they feel safer knowing the government checks for ID. By the time we were done....they could see what I was talking about......very interesting.

They will be checking the news for what happens to me. 8)

Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 01:12 PM NHFT
I mentioned this event at lunch today and got quite a reaction. The 2 men thought it was crazy but cool....government tells us what to do too much/their security measures don't work anyways. The 2 ladies thought it wouldn't work and that they feel safer knowing the government checks for ID. By the time we were done....they could see what I was talking about......very interesting.

They will be checking the news for what happens to me. 8)

The fear-mongers have really done a job on these people.  Good to see they could come around a little bit.

I wonder what kind of response that guy is getting nowadays.
John Gilmore also could get past the ticket counter....he just was subjected to a search by them.....but the he got the usual line from the TSA agents "you are not flying today" :(

Are you going to refuse the body search?

It would make sense to refuse all of those annoying things they do now.

wouldn't that be fun

I was reading the posts, a couple of pages back, about the possibility of a return flight. " Not very likely",  thought.
Then a thought crossed thru my mind.  What if when Russell explained that he has no ID, a couple of guys step up, identify themselves as FBI agents, claim to have been watching his every move for months, and, will vouch that he is who he says he is!

That is really funny.....especially if one of them is John Bender.
If John Bender ever shows up with no beer and says "no" to a slice of pizza....then we got him. :D

Quote from: katdillon on May 19, 2005, 01:42 PM NHFT
Are you going to refuse the body search?

That probably depends on how cute the searcher is. ;D

She'd better be butt-ugly!   :P

Russell's on the phone with Bill from http://www.unrealid.com/.  Sounds like he wants to help!

Quote from: AlanM on May 19, 2005, 10:53 AM NHFT
Hey Kat, where did you find this story? Maybe I'll try to get in touch with the writer.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/wallace/wallace42.html

I am thinking I need a ritual cleansing of my ID. How about we plan an ID burn on say ......the 28th?

Anyone can join me......JP?

My CA drivers license and my social security card......I have been holding on to them....but the time has come.

I didn't realize burning a SS card in public was illegal.  Had I know, I would have saved it for a public burning.  I burned mine in my backyard already.  :(

It is illegal?......so I guess I should inform them that I am going to do it.....too bad I missed your burning Ian.

A public burning of SS cards and canadian passports would be the next logical step for a civil disobedience event.

I wonder who will step forward to take part in this one given the success of the manicure event and Russell's event (which WILL succeed!).

A government ID burning event would be spectacular.  This is EXACTLY what Gandhi did, although his event was a protest against racist ID laws.  The effect of this event would be unbelievable, especially if we focus on burning the new passports required to travel to Canada.

I posted the first draft of the press release to the other big NH web forums:

http://salemnhforum.org/viewtopic.php?t=964

and

http://merrimackforum.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1990

Reaction has been negative.  Obviously we probably can't back down on any of our promises of what is going to happen, but there may be a more soothing way to word this release?   Maybe it is just worded not peacefully and respectfully enough?





Public reaction (if other web forums are any indication) has bee

With regard to the time...bear in mind the first release that went out ( to the union leader and the other web forums)  says russell will move forward at 12:30 PM       I'm afraid that if media come to the event with only that old press release they will miss it all, if russell actually does it at 12:00 PM

Another thing:  I do think it is important for the press release to indicate some kind of eagerness to avoid inconveniencing the public.  Just look at the public reaction on the above threads if you don't believe me when I say this is important.

My recommendation is stiill that the best time to walk forward would be 12:30...leaving open the possibility of holding off a bit if there is a long line.   of course, russell is in charge and I will defer to him on this, but that is my suggestion for minimizing hostility.

Man..  :o  some of those responses are blisteringly harsh.  People seem to think that the airports are much more "private" than they actually are.  Like the airlines actually want this security.

The few airports that have been allowed to to this government mandated security "privately" actually have figured out ways to be more accurate and less demeaning -- in spite of the fact that they're regulated to the point that they're forced to do everything the feds tell them.  I mean, these "private" companies are 99% controled by the government and in spite of it, they're leaps and bounds more efficient, more accurate, and (marginally) less intrusive. Typically a lot politer too.  I think there's only about 5 airports in the country that were allowed to do this test program.

James Bovard talks about them in his TSA chapter in his book "The Bush Betrayal"

Imagine how much better and nicer security would be at the airports if government was completely out of this business.

Tracy

I have noticed that people are so afraid that they resist any change......they will attack you from both sides....for fear that you might upset the applecart.
I am not doing this only because I already said I would......it is the right thing to do.

Did you read that pregnant wife article? This has to stop. The government made this situation....they decreed these changes....the enforce them.

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 19, 2005, 10:24 PM NHFT
Man..? :o? some of those responses are blisteringly harsh.? People seem to think that the airports are much more "private" than they actually are.? Like the airlines actually want this security.

If the airlines were, actually, responsible for what happened to their passengers, and, by this, I mean, not being bailed out by the taxpayers, the companies that insure them would require, probably, even more severe, security precautions than exist now. They would have to comply, to stay in business.
You can protest the government's part in this, but, these security measures, are, never going to go away.

The charter companies don't require these kinds of measures.......who knows what it will look like after the government gets out of the airline business.

When you talk to reporters, how about telling them what it's like on the Israeli airline that's never been hijacked?

Quote from: katdillon on May 20, 2005, 08:56 AM NHFT
When you talk to reporters, how about telling them what it's like on the Israeli airline that's never been hijacked?

Exactly.

This event is the right thing to do.  Federalization has made a bad problem much worse, and it's time for us to stand up to it.

If not us, then who?

If not now, then when?

Who CARES what the other web forums think?  Many people criticized my event before it happened.  I knew in my heart that it was the right thing to do.  I cannot allow the majority to determine my rights.

What's Russell's pre-event tatoo going to be?  I think he should get a nazi prison camp number tatoo'd on his arm, so he can always be ID'd.

Hey that is a good idea.

Mike did you work up a short letter to send to the government?

Maybe I could do my SScard burn in front of the SSA office. I could do it on the 28th maybe after the meeting at Milly's.

So will that be your pre-arrest arrest?

sure...if I am in jail on 6/11 then someone else has to go for me.

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 09:48 AM NHFT
Are you going to get a burn permit?? :D

What class of crime will you be commiting?

of coarse not

I don't care

I wasn't suggesting for a moment that you not do the event.  I think it's a great idea, and just because 5 loudmouths on a forum somewhere have an opinion doesn't mean there aren't a lot of others out there that will take our site.  I just found their responses sad.

It is surprising how people will nitpick the revolutionaries and give the government a pass.......I am not the reason people take so long to go through airports.

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 10:27 AM NHFT
I think it's a great idea, and just because 5 loudmouths on a forum somewhere have an opinion doesn't mean there aren't a lot of others out there that will take our site.  I just found their responses sad.

This sums up the heart of the problem here.  The posters here are heavily involved in coddling an alternative reality, ignoring or rejecting everything and everyone on the outside that disagrees with you.  This is a formula for self-destruction.

It is especially upsetting to know that some of the people agitating for this garbage are non-residents.

You dismissed the opinions of those 5 posters (for no apparent reason other than that you disagree with them).  Yet, it is likely that they are representative of general opinion.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 20, 2005, 11:12 AM NHFT
This sums up the heart of the problem here.? The posters here are heavily involved in coddling an alternative reality, ignoring or rejecting everything and everyone on the outside that disagrees with you.? This is a formula for self-destruction.

It is especially upsetting to know that some of the people agitating for this garbage are non-residents.

Some people call it brainstorming or planning. :)

Non-residents of what ... the United States?

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 11:21 AM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 11:17 AM NHFT
Non-residents of what ... the United States?

The "free state".

Apparently you haven't noticed this is a NATIONAL issue.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 11:17 AM NHFT

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 20, 2005, 11:12 AM NHFT
This sums up the heart of the problem here.  The posters here are heavily involved in coddling an alternative reality, ignoring or rejecting everything and everyone on the outside that disagrees with you.  This is a formula for self-destruction.

It is especially upsetting to know that some of the people agitating for this garbage are non-residents.

Some people call it brainstorming or planning. :)

Call it whatever you want, but you're doing to the exclusion of those offering sound advice.

Quote
Non-residents of what ... the United States?

The posts in question were on town-specific New Hampshire forums.

Quote from: AlanM on May 20, 2005, 11:28 AM NHFT

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 11:21 AM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 11:17 AM NHFT
Non-residents of what ... the United States?

The "free state".

Apparently you haven't noticed this is a NATIONAL issue.

Well, since it is a NATIONAL issue, perhaps, then you will stop sending press releases almost exclusively to New Hampshire-based organizations and discussion groups.

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 11:36 AM NHFT

Quote from: AlanM on May 20, 2005, 11:28 AM NHFT

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 11:21 AM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 11:17 AM NHFT
Non-residents of what ... the United States?

The "free state".

Apparently you haven't noticed this is a NATIONAL issue.

Sorry, I thought NHfree.com had something to do with New Hampshire.? ::)

This issue, which is national in scope, also affects NH residents.  ::)

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 20, 2005, 11:12 AM NHFT
This sums up the heart of the problem here.  The posters here are heavily involved in coddling an alternative reality, ignoring or rejecting everything and everyone on the outside that disagrees with you.  This is a formula for self-destruction.

I didn't ignore what those people said.  It once again signaled that we have a lot of work to do to overcome the pro-state mindset.

What was especially annoying were the comments by the people that were hoping we'd stir up "discussion" about other issues.  Just more armchair quarterbacks.  No one is stopping them from getting involved, except themselves.  It's easy to criticize, difficult to take action.

QuoteIt is especially upsetting to know that some of the people agitating for this garbage are non-residents.

So, be upset.  One man's garbage is another man's treasure.

QuoteYou dismissed the opinions of those 5 posters (for no apparent reason other than that you disagree with them).  Yet, it is likely that they are representative of general opinion.

You don't know anything about the "general opinion".  You just have another opinion.  If that's the general opinion, it's based on ignorance, and hopefully this event will open a few eyes.  Especially if we frame it with the right language.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 20, 2005, 11:33 AM NHFT
Well, since it is a NATIONAL issue, perhaps, then you will stop sending press releases almost exclusively to New Hampshire-based organizations and discussion groups.

We have been sending them nationally.  You're not being very nice when you're hiding your identity, Karl.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 20, 2005, 11:33 AM NHFT
Well, since it is a NATIONAL issue, perhaps, then you will stop sending press releases almost exclusively to New Hampshire-based organizations and discussion groups.

I don't even know what you are talking about. We are sending info out to whoever might care. Dada posts them on NH forums because he hangs out on them. Kat and I are busy finding people who don't agree with the Real ID etc..... If you are part of some group that doesn't want our press releases anymore.....why don't you just say that.

Demanding "Your Papers Please!" is wrong....do you agree?

You must agree with some opinions on this forum otherwise why do you post here. If you think we are a small group of people deluding ourselves...then maybe you should spend your time elsewhere. There are lots of forums I don't agree with....so I don't hang out there. We enjoy planning and laughting with each other here. What do you like to do?

I don't see why we can't use this forum for people inside and outside of NH trying to make life better for people inside and outside of NH.

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 11:46 AM NHFTIf that's the general opinion, it's based on ignorance, and hopefully this event will open a few eyes.? Especially if we frame it with the right language.

I can't imagine keeping guys like Ian out of this loop or ignoring the people inside NH.
What kind of language do you think will help?.....I have been going with Freedom to Travel

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 12:00 PM NHFT

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 11:46 AM NHFT
Just more armchair quarterbacks.  No one is stopping them from getting involved, except themselves.  It's easy to criticize, difficult to take action.

So when will you be coming to the free state to "scare" some of the socialists out?

When I'm good and ready.  Hopefully they'll already be leaving by the time I get there.  I think NHFree.com should at some point start a "Socialist move-out" fund, to give financial assistance to those who wish to leave but just can't afford the greyhound ticket.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 12:17 PM NHFT

I can't imagine keeping guys like Ian out of this loop or ignoring the people inside NH.
What kind of language do you think will help?.....I have been going with Freedom to Travel

I have no suggestions, I thought the press release was fine.  We're never going to make everyone comfortable, nor should we try.

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 12:18 PM NHFTI think NHFree.com should at some point start a "Socialist move-out" fund, to give financial assistance to those who wish to leave but just can't afford the greyhound ticket.

I just couldn't to it......getting rid of welfare recipients by giving them money?.....they might just come back when they run out. :'(

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 12:19 PM NHFT
I have no suggestions, I thought the press release was fine.? We're never going to make everyone comfortable, nor should we try.

Do you guys have a show on Saturday nights? Maybe we could call you for a debriefing. 8)

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 12:21 PM NHFT

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 12:18 PM NHFTI think NHFree.com should at some point start a "Socialist move-out" fund, to give financial assistance to those who wish to leave but just can't afford the greyhound ticket.

I just couldn't to it......getting rid of welfare recipients by giving them money?.....they might just come back when they run out. :'(

We could get them to sign a contract saying they'll never set foot in the state again...

Yes, we have a Sat show.

Quote from: Neo Hantoni on May 20, 2005, 11:29 AM NHFTCall it whatever you want, but you're doing to the exclusion of those offering sound advice.

Quote
Non-residents of what ... the United States?

The posts in question were on town-specific New Hampshire forums.

Is that you Karl? It is really hard to keep up with you....Dave Mincin and I have decided that isn't good behavior and you are going against sage advice. :D
Do you think we should only do NH specific events......or keep our national events out of NH? I don't even know what your sound advice is.

Quote from: katdillon on May 20, 2005, 08:56 AM NHFT
When you talk to reporters, how about telling them what it's like on the Israeli airline that's never been hijacked?

Anyone ever fly on El Al? I had a friend who used to live in Germany he flew El Al a couple of times. The airport terminal had a 3 foot elevated walkway around the perimeter of the room. The security personel carried fully automatic weapons on the walkway. Their security is far more rigorous than anything in the US.

El Al Airlines:
We may decide to refuse to carry you or your Baggage if, in the exercise of our reasonable discretion, we consider that one or more of the following have occurred or we believe may occur:

you do not have, or do not appear to have, valid travel documents, may seek to enter a country through which you may be in transit, or for which you do not have valid travel documents, destroy your travel documents during flight or have refused to allow us to photocopy your travel documents or refuse to surrender your travel documents to the flight crew, against receipt, when so requested.

For reasons of safety and security we may request that you permit a search and scan of your person and a search, scan or x-ray of your Baggage. With respect to a search of your person, please be aware that security authorities are entitled to conduct intensive personal searches and we have no responsibility for any embarrassment or discomfort caused. With respect to your Baggage, if you are not available or present, your Baggage may be opened and searched in your absence for the purpose of determining whether you are in possession of or whether your Baggage contains any item described in paragraph 8.3.1 or any firearms, ammunition, weapons or similar items which have not been presented to us in accordance with paragraphs 8.3.2, 8.3.3 or 8.3.7. If you are unwilling to comply with such request we may refuse to carry you and your Baggage. Please be aware that, in your absence, security authorities (such as, but not limited to, the USA Transport Security Administration and Israeli security personnel) are entitled to open and check your Baggage. If you decide to lock your Checked Baggage, neither us nor the security authorities are liable for damage caused to locked baggage that must be opened for security purposes. In the event a search or scan causes Damage to you, or a search, an x-ray or scan causes damage to your Baggage, we shall not be liable for such Damage unless due to our fault or negligence.

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 12:33 PM NHFTWe could get them to sign a contract saying they'll never set foot in the state again...

...a contract with a socialist.....isn't that some sort of joke? ?;D

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 12:38 PM NHFT

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 20, 2005, 12:33 PM NHFTWe could get them to sign a contract saying they'll never set foot in the state again...

...a contract with a socialist.....isn't that some sort of joke?  ;D

Touche`

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 12:37 PM NHFT
Do you think we should only do NH specific events......or keep our national events out of NH? I don't even know what your sound advice is.

Hold on.  After one poster dismissed the opinions and concerns of NH residents, and I stated that they should not be dismissed, I was then told this was a national event anyway (another form of dismissal of NH residents, IMO).  I don't care if your events are state or nationally focused.

Anyway, clearly I do not agree with the general approach taken by activists in this forum.  I have called the truth as I see it, and for some, it has not been pretty.  It is not personal, but a strong difference in opinion.  Therefore, I will leave you to it, and this will be my final post here.  Good luck.

Now that makes sense. If Neo disagrees with almost everything we plan here, then it makes sense to spend his time elsewhere.

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 12:15 PM NHFT
You must agree with some opinions on this forum otherwise why do you post here. If you think we are a small group of people deluding ourselves...then maybe you should spend your time elsewhere. There are lots of forums I don't agree with....so I don't hang out there. We enjoy planning and laughting with each other here. What do you like to do?

I use multi-billion dollar military satellites to find Tupperware hidden in the woods!

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 01:52 PM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 01:39 PM NHFT
Now that makes sense. If Neo disagrees with almost everything we plan here, then it makes sense to spend his time elsewhere.

Yes, it has become very obvious that the "good guys" that post here do not want to hear about any other perspective. Some people call that 'close minded'. The only ideas and perspectives you are open to are your own.

I didn't hear any other perspective from Neo, except "I don't like what you are doing". If he had suggested other things we should be doing, he would have been accepted better.

LOL @ your sig line, Ron.  I guess it's common in Britain to let people traipse across your land.  "Just close the gate" when you're done.   I've never been there, though.

Oh, this is on the front page now :)

http://realidrebellion.blogspot.com/

Quote from: katdillon on May 20, 2005, 02:16 PM NHFT
LOL @ your sig line, Ron.  I guess it's common in Britain to let people traipse across your land.  "Just close the gate" when you're done.   I've never been there, though.

That's a reaction to an article I read where some enviro-nut was complaining about how all the land is slowly getting converted over to being used. He's afraid of seeing "no trespassing" signs all over the place.

Quote from: rhelwig on May 20, 2005, 02:22 PM NHFT

Quote from: katdillon on May 20, 2005, 02:16 PM NHFT
LOL @ your sig line, Ron.? I guess it's common in Britain to let people traipse across your land.? "Just close the gate" when you're done.? ?I've never been there, though.

That's a reaction to an article I read where some enviro-nut was complaining about how all the land is slowly getting converted over to being used. He's afraid of seeing "no trespassing" signs all over the place.

My Dad had a sign in his backyard on a golf course 'This ground is "In Bounds" no penalty and play it as it lies' 8)

Quote from: JonM on May 20, 2005, 02:10 PM NHFTI use multi-billion dollar military satellites to find Tupperware hidden in the woods!

Man ....when are we going to shut of funding?

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 02:33 PM NHFT

Quote from: JonM on May 20, 2005, 02:10 PM NHFTI use multi-billion dollar military satellites to find Tupperware hidden in the woods!

Man ....when are we going to shut of funding?

I think he's talking about 'geo-caching', where someone hides something and others use their GPSs to find it.

I just go nuts when I hear my money being spent.

Quote from: rhelwig on May 20, 2005, 02:51 PM NHFT
[I think he's talking about 'geo-caching', where someone hides something and others use their GPSs to find it.

Maybe he can find me when they wisk me off in secrecy. ;)

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 03:02 PM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on May 20, 2005, 02:52 PM NHFT
I just go nuts when I hear my money being spent.

I thought you had said something about not paying taxes....what taxes don't you pay?

I don't pay Federal Income taxes, but they still get money from me in other ways. >:(

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 03:04 PM NHFT

Quote from: rhelwig on May 20, 2005, 02:11 PM NHFT
I didn't hear any other perspective from Neo, except "I don't like what you are doing".

Right...that is the problem. If anyone has a different perspective, that is all you guys can hear.

How many forums do you keep track of el presidente' .... are we special or do you visit a lot of places?.....is there a forum where people agree with you?

I don't think that's entirely true fisher.  While it's true most everyone would rather get their way, the libertopia at the end of the rainbow is not likely to be attainable unless people change their attitudes about how the world is supposed to work.  If nobody talks about other ways of doing things, we'll never make any progress towards that sort of society.  Licensing laws may or may not be useful in some contexts, but private certification can trump the vast majority of what is being licensed now.

As for this protest, it is widely thought that an ID isn't too hard to fake, and I doubt a RealID will be any harder to fake than any ID available now.  These sorts of provisions don't catch the sorts of terrorists who do planning for things like 9/11.  They didn't break one single rule in what they did before they hijacked those planes; most of the security measures in place since then wouldn't change a thing.  What changes things is there is now a plane full of passengers that will immediately assume the worst possible outcome should someone attempt to hijack that plane and take action based on that assumption.  That's why another attack like 9/11 is not very likely, and for the most part terrorists are going to try to enact plans with a higher chance of success.  I'd be more worried about a cargo plane being used than a passenger jet at this point.

Quote from: katdillon on May 20, 2005, 08:56 AM NHFT
When you talk to reporters, how about telling them what it's like on the Israeli airline that's never been hijacked?

Does anyone know exactly what precautions are taken in Israeli airports?  I understand the have like 20 fights a day nationwide.

So if you don't do what they" advise"your wrong.

They will insult you and then say don't take it personel.

It's amazing that they cliam to want to advance freedoom too but want to stop you when they dont agree.

I don't agree with this particular protest either, so what .


As to the charge of folks from out of state being involved, so what I'M not Robbing banks,
I attened protest's and clean up the side of the road. You have some problem with that?
If you do - to bad, I'M gonna keep doing it and here's something worse, eventualy I will move to NH.

<<It's probably just me posting under a bunch of different username.  Tongue

Put the rose colored glasses back on.  Cheesy>>


LOL pres I wish all trolls were as fun  to have around as you are :)

to fisher, russell wrote:
<<If you think we are a small group of people deluding ourselves...then maybe you should spend your time elsewhere.>>

I like having fisher here!  I just think it is cool that one of the most vocal opponents of the FSP hangs out with us.   

I kinda like having el presidente around, too.  He makes me laugh fairly often.  Every movement should have a goad like him to keep them honest.

Here is another proposed version of the press release.   Russell if you can approve it I will start sending it out again.

---

NH:  Man Without I.D. Vows to Board Flight or be Jailed

Manchester, NH, May 18, 2005 - Inspired by New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," another Granite Stater is stepping forward to peacefully defy license-related laws.  Thirty-five-year old Russell Kanning of Keene has announced he will approach a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) checkpoint at Manchester airport on June 11 and refuse to cooperate with the requirement to show ID.  "I will either board the plane without I.D. or be arrested," he says.  "In a free country you do not need government permission to travel."

Kanning has a ticket to Philadelphia and, if allowed to travel there, plans to celebrate by visiting Independence Hall.

Two months after the September 11th attacks, the Aviation Security Act federalized airport security nationwide, and granted unprecedented police powers to the TSA.  Now, an ID is mandatory to enter an airport, passengers must travel alone past security checkpoints, and random full-body searches in public are considered normal.

Kanning stresses that he will not resist arrest or do anything that might be perceived as physically threatening.  He says this act of nonviolent resistance will follow the model laid down by Gandhi, who used peaceful noncooperation to expel the British from India.  "We will tell them everything we're going to do ahead of time.  We are not going to disrupt the operation of the airport," he says.

Kanning says the parallels with Gandhi's situation go further than a shared belief in nonviolence.   "In South Africa (where Gandhi's protests began), Indians had to have special I.D...so it's very similar that way, and he wanted to burn it...He was appealing to that same basic idea that we have rights to not have to have paperwork to be able to move freely."

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.  After announcing he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, he carried out his promise, earned a brief trip to jail and received heavy regional media coverage for his viewpoint.

Kanning says Gandhi's and Fisher's examples inspired him to take similar action against the growing "surveillance state."  He believes the Real ID amendment passed by the Senate this month will make things even worse.  But he says it's important to stay positive.    "The goal is we want to get to the point where we can travel without having to have paperwork so, this is the beginning of that.  We see light at the end of the tunnel. "

Currently the plan is for Kanning to approach the security checkpoint at 12:30 PM.  Journalists and supporters will want to be there by noon.

Summary:

What:  Civil disobedience against ID requirements under federalized airport security.
Where:  Manchester Airport in New Hampshire (exact spot to be determined)
When:  Saturday, June 11 @ noon
Who:  Russell Kanning of Keene, NH, supporters from NHfree.com
Why:  To draw attention to the recent and continuing loss of privacy and freedom due to federalized airport security and National ID.
How:  By approaching a TSA checkpoint with a ticket but no ID, refusing to show ID, and refusing to cooperate with the law until arrested or allowed to board the plane.
Contacts:  Russell Kanning:  (603) 357-2049,  Kat Dillon (same number), Mike Fisher (603) 498-7935.  More contacts and details may appear in future releases, which appear at NHfree.com.

I have decided that if I get through.....I will fly there and back, but won't have any time to visit anywhere in Philly
The rest looks good. :D

Kat has reminded me that we don't have enough time to plan another event....so I will save the burning of my ID's for another day......maybe I will join someone else
s celebration.
When we burned JP's SScard,we only got halfway done....so I know he has the remains somewhere.

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 03:27 PM NHFTI thought Mike did his event to start debate, but debate does not seem to be what you guys really want. You just want everyone to agree with you, cus you are the self appointed "good guys".

He might have....I don't want a debate about freedom....I just want freedom.

Quote from: president on May 20, 2005, 03:27 PM NHFT
The president only visits this forum.....You are 'special', and I visit a lot of places.....I don't go to forums for a circle jerk, so I wouldn't bother to visit one where everyone agreed with me about everything.

The "president" may only visit here, but "fisher" is a regular at http://bbs.freetalklive.com ! 

Oh that is good....I bet your liberty chics can wear him out. :D

I organized the manicure event to create debate and get a point across.  I'm very satisfied with the results!  :)

Russell, I think you should write the letter to the government.  I can see us writing press releases and helping out with most other things, but the letter must be your message, so I think you should write it.   ;)  It's just one letter.  It won't take that long!

I do not at all understand the basis of the argument that we only look at our side of the argument and ignore all others.

We have absolute respect for opposite views.? Most of us here have become pro-liberty individuals through years of discovery, debate, reading, and research.? We are on this forum to take action, so expect us to focus on that primarily.? This IS a forum for discussing action, organizing action, and TAKING action.? All except for the "Endless Debate and Whining" area, of course.? ;)  Please do not be offended or offensive because we focus on action in this forum.  I do not believe I should be debating endlessly and pointlessly on here like on most other forums.

Outside of this forum, I regularly ask people that I meet what they think about licensing, tell them about the event, and listen to their point of view.? I like to ask leading questions, ask why they hold their point of view, and propose my point of view while respecting their opinion and specific areas of expertise.? I communicate with many local people each day about licensing-related issues.? Real noncooperation requires respect for other points of view - it is like the Golden Rule.? If you wish for someone to consider your point of view, you must listen closely and consider her point of view.

"Non-cooperation is a measure of discipline and sacrifice, and it demands respect for the opposite views."
-Gandhi

That said, this IS primarily an action forum.  :)

Here's the version that incorporates Russell's requested changes...it also softens some of the rhetoric about the TSA.

---

NH: Man Without I.D. Vows to Board Flight or be Jailed

Manchester, NH, May 21, 2005 - Inspired by New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," another Granite Stater is stepping forward to peacefully defy license-related laws.? Thirty-five-year-old Russell Kanning of Keene has announced he will approach a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) checkpoint at Manchester airport on June 11 and refuse to cooperate with the requirement to show ID.? "I will either board the plane without I.D. or be arrested," he says.? "In a free country you do not need government permission to travel."

Two months after the September 11th attacks, the Aviation Security Act federalized airport security nationwide and granted new police powers to the TSA.? Now, an ID is mandatory to travel by commercial aircraft, passengers must travel alone past security checkpoints, and random full-body searches in public are considered normal.

Kanning stresses that he will not resist arrest or do anything that might be perceived as physically threatening.? He says this act of nonviolent resistance will follow the model laid down by Gandhi, who used peaceful noncooperation to expel the British from India.? "We will tell them everything we're going to do ahead of time.? We are not going to disrupt the operation of the airport," he says.

Kanning says the parallels with Gandhi's situation go further than a shared belief in nonviolence.? ?"In South Africa (where Gandhi's protests began), Indians had to have special I.D...so it's very similar that way, and he wanted to burn it...He was appealing to that same basic idea that we have rights to not have to have paperwork to be able to move freely."

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.? After announcing he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, he carried out his promise, earned a brief trip to jail and received heavy regional media coverage for his viewpoint.

Kanning says Gandhi's and Fisher's examples inspired him to take similar action against the growing "surveillance state."? He believes the Real ID amendment passed by the Senate this month will make things even worse.? But he says it's important to stay positive.? ? "The goal is we want to get to the point where we can travel without having to have paperwork so, this is the beginning of that.? We see light at the end of the tunnel. "

Currently the plan is for Kanning to approach the security checkpoint at 12:30 PM.? Journalists and supporters will want to be there by noon.

Summary:

What:? Civil disobedience against ID requirements under federalized airport security.
Where:? Manchester Airport in New Hampshire (exact spot to be determined)
When:? Saturday, June 11 @ noon
Who:? Russell Kanning of Keene, NH, supporters from NHfree.com
Why:? To draw attention to the recent and continuing loss of privacy and freedom due to federalized airport security and National ID.
How:? By approaching a TSA checkpoint with a ticket but no ID, refusing to show ID, and refusing to cooperate with the law until arrested or allowed to board the plane.
Contacts:? Russell Kanning:? (603) 357-2049,? Kat Dillon (same number), Mike Fisher (603) 498-7935, NHfree.com

What's wrong with saying the TSA was given "unprecedented" police powers after 9/11?  ;)

Yeah, I know, it sounds more like an editorial than an article.  LOL

Now as soon as Russell writes his letter to the gub, I can send this PR to my press contacts.

Come on, Russell.  You can do it!  Believe in yourself!  ;)

Why are you worried about what the people on other forums are saying about this event?

ALL of what has been posted in opposition to this event is nonsense with no logical backing in reality.? Most of the opposition are neocons.? Frankly, I don't care if they like it or not.? They're the ones that caused this.

The typical post:
"Duh, if you have nothing to hide, then why do you want privacy?"
"Duh... what does showing an ID have to do with privacy?"
"Uhh... you've always had to show ID to fly."

The same types of people posted that manicurist licensing has been implemented in all 50 states for decades, which is completely false.  Statism has skyrocketed in recent years, but these people just cannot see what is right in front of their eyes.  They would rather hold the opinion of the majority.  It's easier that way.  You wouldn't want them to think for themselves.  Oh, the horror!   :o   ;)

This event is an excellent idea, and the timing is perfect.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 21, 2005, 06:35 PM NHFT
"Uhh... you've always had to show ID to fly."

Ignorance is bliss for some people..

Argumentum ad antiquitatem

This is the fallacy of asserting that something is right or good simply because it's old, or because "that's the way it's always been." The opposite of Argumentum ad Novitatem.

Perhaps this question is slightly off topic for this thread. But I'll ask anyway. :)

Can anyone explain how knowing the identity of each passenger makes the flight any safer?

Quote from: Erethizon on May 21, 2005, 09:44 PM NHFT
Perhaps this question is slightly off topic for this thread. But I'll ask anyway. :)

Can anyone explain how knowing the identity of each passenger makes the flight any safer?

That's entirely on topic. As a matter of fact, it's one of the key points!

We knew exactly who the 9/11 hijackers were. 'Nuff said.

Kevin

http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2005/05/18/notes051805.DTL&type=printable

SF Gate       
They Really Are Watching You
Ready for your own all-new, sinister ID card, courtesy of Homeland Security? Shudder
- By Mark Morford, SF Gate Columnist
Wednesday, May 18, 2005

Well, now we've done it.

Congress just passed it and Dubya has promised to sign it and the Homeland Security Department is giddier than Mel Gibson in a nail factory over it and marketers nationwide are salivating at the groin at the prospect of it, and the next big step toward America becoming an even more delightfully paranoid and draconian Big Brother wonderland has now officially been taken.

It's called Real ID. It is, in short, a new and genetically mutated type of driver's license for all Americans, replacing your current license and replacing your Social Security card and replacing your sense of well being and privacy and humanity and part of a new, uniform, deeply sinister, national uniform card system whereby every person living and breathing in these paranoid and tense times shall henceforth be much more traceable and watchable given how we will all soon be required by law to carry this super-deluxe computerized ID card with us at all times, packed as it will be with more personal, digitized info about you than even your mother knows.

Real ID is coming very soon. The legislation was passed with little outcry and zero debate by both House and Senate just last week because lawmakers snuck it into a massive $82 billion military spending bill, and therefore no one was really paying much attention and this is the way you get thorny disturbing culturally demeaning bills to pass without resistance from smart people who should know better.

The new law will, according to the Wired News story linked above, require everyone to hand over not one, not two, but fully four types of documentation to renew their driver's license, such as a photo ID, a birth certificate, proof that their Social Security number is legit and something that validates their home address, like a phone bill. DMV employees will then have to verify the documents against giant teeming federal databases and store the documents and a digital photo of you in a database. Isn't that fun? Doesn't that sound gratifying?

What's more, the card's design plan includes multiple openings for the Homeland Security Department to add on whatever features they deem necessary, with or without your knowledge, consent or who the hell cares what you think because we do what we want now please shut the hell up and quit asking questions.

Computer (RFID) microchip? Likely. Digital fingerprint? Sure. Political affiliation? You bet. Web-site-visit log and religious affiliation and recent sperm count and arrest record and drug addictions and medical history and blood type and gender orientation and parent's/children's home address and number of personal blog posts calling Dr. Phil a "slug-licking ego-bitch charlatan" and your recent purchase history on shotathome.com? One guess.

Make no mistake: Real ID, in short, takes us one happy step closer to a total surveillance state, where everyone is stamped and everyone is watchable and everyone is traceable and unless you live way, way off the grid out in the increasingly nonexistent hinterlands, you cannot escape the spazzy and twitchy and paranoid eye of Homeland Security.

Remember the scenes in that surprisingly not-awful Tom Cruise flick "Minority Report" with the ubiquitous eye scanners, installed all over the near-future city? And as poor Tommy ran around like a maniac, little scanner machines installed by the gummint would read the eye pattern of every citizen as they walked around and the system could track anyone at any time no matter where they might wander and all the info was dumped into a huge database that was studied and cross-checked and manipulated by the CIA and FBI and Banana Republic?

Real ID feels much like that, only not nearly as cool.

Real ID is, as you might expect, giving civil liberties groups and immigrant-support groups the hives. State governors across the nation are none too happy, either, as implementation of the new law will cost each state hundreds of millions of dollars, but, of course, the bill provides zero federal funds to help. Such is the BushCo way.

This is the funny thing. This is the sad thing. This is the terrifying thing. We have suffered one major debilitating act of terrorism in this nation and we have recoiled so violently, so rabidly, so desperately that we are still more than willing to give up whatever freedoms necessary in a vain and silly attempt to control chaos and plug every hole, when of course the nation is basically one giant hole to begin with.

Of course, any good conspiracy theorist worth his secret underground bootleg Area 51 videos will tell you this sort of citizen-surveillance thing has been going on for years, decades, from spy satellites to GPS to all manner of phone tracking and e-mail snooping and behavior watching and this Real ID thing only takes it a little more public, national, makes it part of the cultural lexicon because we have finally weakened so much we just don't seem to give a damn what they do to us anymore.

Don't think it's all that bad? Think BushCo's flying monkeys in the CIA and FBI and Homeland Security really have your best interests at heart and are genuinely trying to protect you from scary swarthy furriners who want to sneak into our country and poison our Cheerios and paint our flag orange and cover our wimmin in burlap? Have at it. The GOP would love to have you. Oh, and while you're at it, enjoy that tiny grain-of-rice-size bar-coded implant RFID microchip the FDA just approved, which they can permanently slip under your skin in under 20 minutes, with nary a peep.

This is what's happening now. With Real ID (and who knows what else), the government is cracking down and creating a new and improved and far more devious and exploitable system to monitor its citizens because, well, because we let them. Because millions of us have been pummeled so successfully by the fear-mongering Right. Because we have never been so lax, so blinded by warmongering and dread, so numbed to what might become of us.

Ah, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe this is just rampant paranoia talking and it's just a silly piece of harmless legislation and Real ID is overall a genuinely good and useful idea that will ultimately make us safer and more secure. You think?

Because hasn't BushCo proven to be reliable and honest and just reeking with integrity about privacy and security issues so far? Hasn't the USA Patriot Act been just a wondrous boon to police and CIA and our sense that we are trusted and cared for by our government? Aren't we all feeling just so much safer with this most secretive, least accountable administration at the helm?

After all, why not trust the government on this? Why not put our faith in the goodly Homeland Security Department? Maybe Real ID really is patriotic and constructive and it will be a smooth and secure and completely inviolable system, one that protects citizens while giving them a new sense of freedom to move about the country with carefree flag-waving ease, safe in the knowledge that their big, snarling gummint is watching over them like a protective mother bear -- as opposed to, say, a female praying mantis, who greedily screws her lover, and then, of course, eats him alive.

Hey, I was just going to say that.   :)

Here's yet another version that takes out the aviation history.  Several folks on other forums are claiming that part had factual errors, and it's not really necessary to get the point across.   The error they claim is there is the I.D. requirement....  are you guys sure we didn't have to have i.d. before 9/11?  i thought we did...  guess this proves my point about how easy it is to forget what things used to be like just a few years ago.   

---

NH: Man Without I.D. Vows to Board Flight or be Jailed

Manchester, NH, May 21, 2005 - Inspired by New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," another Granite Stater is stepping forward to peacefully defy license-related laws.  Russell Kanning of Keene has announced he will approach a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) checkpoint at Manchester airport on June 11 and refuse to cooperate with the requirement to show I.D.  "I will either board the plane without I.D. or be arrested," he says.  "In a free country you do not need government permission to travel."   The 35-year-old accountant has a ticket to Philidelphia.

Kanning stresses that he will not resist arrest or do anything that might be perceived as physically threatening.  He says this act of nonviolent resistance will follow the model laid down by Gandhi, who used peaceful noncooperation to expel the British from India.  "We will tell them everything we're going to do ahead of time.  We are not going to disrupt the operation of the airport," he says.

Kanning says the parallels with Gandhi's situation go further than a shared belief in nonviolence.   "In South Africa (where Gandhi's protests began), Indians had to have special I.D...so it's very similar that way, and he wanted to burn it...He was appealing to that same basic idea that we have rights to not have to have paperwork to be able to move freely."

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.  After announcing he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, he carried out his promise, earned a brief trip to jail and received heavy regional media coverage for his viewpoint.

Kanning says Gandhi's and Fisher's examples inspired him to take similar action against the growing "surveillance state."  He believes the Real I.D. amendment passed by the Senate this month will make things even worse.  But he says it's important to stay positive.  "The goal is we want to get to the point where we can travel without having to have paperwork, so this is the beginning of that.  We see light at the end of the tunnel. "

Currently the plan is for Kanning to approach the security checkpoint at 12:30 PM.  Journalists and supporters will want to be there by noon.

Summary:

What:  Civil disobedience against ID requirements under federalized airport security.
Where:  Manchester Airport in New Hampshire (exact spot to be determined)
When:  Saturday, June 11 @ noon
Who:  Russell Kanning of Keene, NH, supporters from NHfree.com
Why:  To draw attention to the recent and continuing loss of privacy and freedom due to federalized airport security and National ID.
How:  By approaching a TSA checkpoint with a ticket but no I.D., refusing to show I.D. and refusing to cooperate with the I.D. requirement until arrested or allowed to board the plane.
Contacts:  Russell Kanning:  (603) 357-2049,  Kat Dillon (same number), Mike Fisher (603) 498-7935, NHfree.com

I should be very angry about the National ID right now, but I am not. ?:)

National ID passed on May 10th, the SAME day when the effect of our first event proved that Gandhi's principles and methods are indeed the solution to our problems. ?This was no coincidence. ?It is obvious that the people of this country are not asleep, they are only afraid to take a stand, and they are seeking an example to follow.

I believe in our ability to change the future. ?We are showing, by our example, how people can take a stand without the need to work within the system.

Many people are wondering how to withdraw their consent without hurting others because violence is the most unnatural and evil thing a human being can do. ?In our Police State, without any spirit of mass rebellion, violence only justifies the continuous growth of government.

So what is the solution? ?How can government be fought effectively without resorting to violence?

Public nonviolent noncooperation is the key. ?The voluntary suffering of a few can set our people free, at least for one generation. ?The coming revolution must be peaceful to succeed, and we are leading this movement by our example.

Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 22, 2005, 09:13 AM NHFT
Here's yet another version that takes out the aviation history.? Several folks on other forums are claiming that part had factual errors, and it's not really necessary to get the point across.? ?The error they claim is there is the I.D. requirement....? are you guys sure we didn't have to have i.d. before 9/11?? i thought we did...? guess this proves my point about how easy it is to forget what things used to be like just a few years ago.? ?

Dave,

They're obviously wrong.

Three and a half years ago, anyone could enter an airport without an ID or a ticket.? Someone would only need to show their ticket to board their flight.? If they did not have their ticket sent in the mail, they would need to go to the ticket counter and show ID to receive their ticket.? That's all.

Do not take this section out!? ?:o? I believe this will be the most popular detail about the event!!!

Now that airport security is federalized because of the Aviation Security Act, the TSA requires ID and ticket to enter the airport, and your friends or family that are not flying cannot go with you into the airport!? However, the exact law is a secret.

Another reason why this event will be very effective is because Gilmore only asked to see the law, and nobody could show it.

Russell does not need to see the law to know that it is wrong.

He willl assert his freedom to travel regardless of the rules that surround him.

Arright Mike I've put some of the history back in:

---

NH: Man Without I.D. Vows to Board Flight or be Jailed

Manchester, NH, May 21, 2005 - Inspired by New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist," another Granite Stater is stepping forward to peacefully defy license-related laws.  Russell Kanning of Keene has announced he will approach a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) checkpoint at Manchester airport on June 11 and refuse to cooperate with the requirement to show I.D.  "I will either board the plane without I.D. or be arrested," he says.  "In a free country you do not need government permission to travel."   The 35-year-old accountant has a ticket to Philidelphia.

Kanning stresses that he will not resist arrest or do anything that might be perceived as physically threatening.  He says this act of nonviolent resistance will follow the model laid down by Gandhi, who used peaceful noncooperation to expel the British from India.  "We will tell them everything we're going to do ahead of time.  We are not going to disrupt the operation of the airport," he says.

Kanning says the parallels with Gandhi's situation go further than a shared belief in nonviolence.   "In South Africa (where Gandhi's protests began), Indians had to have special I.D...so it's very similar that way, and he wanted to burn it...He was appealing to that same basic idea that we have rights to not have to have paperwork to be able to move freely."

After the terrorist attacks in 2001, Federal authorities tightened flying restrictions and begain forcing citizens to have both a ticket and identification (usually a driver's license) in order to even enter an airport terminal.   Kanning says he refuses to carry a license on principle and disputes the idea that tighter restrictions really make flying safer.

Earlier this month another Gandhi admirer, Mike Fisher of Newmarket, used the Mahatma's techniques to protest business licensing.  After announcing he would perform an unlicensed manicure in front of the state licensing offices, he carried out his promise, earned a brief trip to jail and received heavy regional media coverage for his viewpoint.

Kanning says Gandhi's and Fisher's examples inspired him to take similar action against the growing "surveillance state."  He believes the Real I.D. amendment passed by the Senate this month will make things even worse.  But he says it's important to stay positive.  "The goal is we want to get to the point where we can travel without having to have paperwork, so this is the beginning of that.  We see light at the end of the tunnel. "

Currently the plan is for Kanning to approach the security checkpoint at 12:30 PM.  Journalists and supporters will want to be there by noon.

Summary:

What:  Civil disobedience against ID requirements under federalized airport security.
Where:  Manchester Airport in New Hampshire (exact spot to be determined)
When:  Saturday, June 11 @ noon
Who:  Russell Kanning of Keene, NH, supporters from NHfree.com
Why:  To draw attention to the recent and continuing loss of privacy and freedom due to federalized airport security and National ID.
How:  By approaching a TSA checkpoint with a ticket but no I.D., refusing to show I.D. and refusing to cooperate with the I.D. requirement until arrested or allowed to board the plane.
Contacts:  Russell Kanning:  (603) 357-2049,  Kat Dillon (same number), Mike Fisher (603) 498-7935, NHfree.com

The reaction on New Hampshire's two busiest web forums (welll, besides this one) is continuing strong and becoming a little less hostile.   I posted our may 19 press release there a few days ago.  (links are in this thread, above)As usual many of the reactions , though negative, are coming from a fairly freedom-friendly perspective (i.e. "businesses have a right to require i.d.",   "this may discredit the good ideas of free staters," etc.)  It's a fairly constructive debate you've sparked over there.

Reaction on national forums appears to be almost as robust, about 4-to-1 against russell which is not bad.

I do think it's becoming apparent that there will not be much public support behind this initially, perhaps not ever. Though that could change if russell is overpunished or if he is allowed to board.   Perhaps if he is allowed into the terminal that will provide a small moral victory as well.

It does seem that people are starting to think more about ways they would *not* want I.D.'s to be used.

My thinking is that if it were me doing this I would probably not make promises to keep doing it. I might just....show up again a few months after being released from jail!  or pick another thing to protest.   property tax protests sure seem to be in demand lately LOL

Most reaction to the announcement of my event was negative as well, and most of the opposition had no real, logical basis for opposition.  The outcome changed that drastically.  I expect the same will occur with this event.

People just don't understand how ridiculous the law is until the arrest.  Then everything changes.

"The hardest heart and the grossest ignorance must disappear before the rising sun of suffering, without anger and without malice."

Russell is a very brave man.  He is nothing less than a hero.

"The satyagrahi must be prepared to suffer till the end for his cause."

"The quest of truth involves self-suffering, sometimes even unto death."

"Passive resistance is a method of securing rights by personal suffering; it is the reverse of resistance by arms."
-Gandhi

Our position is principled and correct, theirs is corrupt and violent.  Let's kick some empire ass.   >:D

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 22, 2005, 12:59 PM NHFT
Our position is principled and correct, theirs is corrupt and violent.? Let's kick some empire ass.? ?>:D

My thoughts exactly.

So, Russell, you gonna get a tattoo?  ;)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 22, 2005, 09:15 PM NHFT
So, Russell, you gonna get a tattoo?? ;)

I know you jail guys are realy into that tattoo thing.  Just make sure that you have clean underwear with NHfree.com printed on them - you never know who may be taking pictures.   ;D

Hey John, are you making nhfree underwear now??

Quote from: katdillon on May 23, 2005, 04:32 AM NHFT
Hey John, are you making nhfree underwear now??

Soon. (Just in case.)   8)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 22, 2005, 09:15 PM NHFT
So, Russell, you gonna get a tattoo?? ;)

No permanent tattoo for me.....maybe one with       956483856567

That would be your number under a world government.? Your U.S. Gov. I.D. would be under 300,000,000.? Only a couple of German consentration camps used numbers, so, that number would probably be under 100,000.
When I was in my teens, my friends father, a camp survivor, had a number tattoo on his arm. I remember seeing it, but, did not stare at it.

24681 ?

24601!

Wouldn't it be funny to have a licensing event sometime where the whole crowd is full of people with forearm id with things like
unity 27098
fraternity 56978
etc. :D

24601 is the prisoner number of Jean Valjean in Les Miserables.  It's also appeared in the Simpsons a few times, I recall one episode when Skinner saw some helmet he said he wore when he was a POW in Vietnam, and it has 24601 on it.  It's also the prisoner number for Side Show Bob and Marge in a couple of episodes as well.

I was thinking of him for that guy in jail for stealing a $4 sandwich.

Quote from: JonM on May 23, 2005, 10:44 AM NHFT
24601!

Here I was singing the song and still typing it in wrong!

Russell, it is quite clear from talking with you at this evening's meet and greet that your heart and mind are working together very well in preparation for this event.  Your principles are clear.  Your center seems stable and strong.  This is sure to be a success.

With risk, comes great reward.  It's what sets the men from the boys.  The freedom lovers from the slaves.

You are all great inspiration, to more people than we know.

Imagining the days when twenty are willing to stand up as you guys have and are, is a very pleasant experience.  Imagining 200 is fantastic, and 2,000 is virtually unfathomable.  20,000 is just the icing on the cake.

2,000 people like you would change poltics in NH forever.

I submitted Dada's press release to slashdot.  So if you can't access the forum for a while, it's because it got accepted and web site traffic has gone crazy.

Somehow, a radio station in Missouri called The Power Hour picked up this story and called me this morning.

I was on their radio show for about 20 minutes talking about Russell's event, the recent federalization of airport security, and my event.? They called back 5 minutes later and asked for my address to mail me something that is "politically incorrect", but I'm not sure what it is.

This is going to be HUGE when we make the final announcement!? Hurry with that letter, Russell!? :)

http://www.thepowerhour.com/

Beth with the Portsmouth Herald somehow found out about the event.  I told her about it once before, I believe.  She wants to "break" the story!

I sent the press release to her.

This is going to be great!!!

I will be sending the letters tonight.....unless Margot and DaveM plan another party.........which is always a possibility. :)
You could always send out our current press release to whoever.

I may give her a day or two to break this story in the Herald before releasing it to everyone.

That way, when I tell people about it, I can also say "this is a story from the front page of the Portsmouth Herald on Wednesday, I thought you'd be interested in it as well."  This strategy worked very well with the last event.  Once the Exeter Newsletter had it on the front page, I didn't even need to send out press releases anymore.  For example, I just called WMUR Channel 9 news and said "look at the front page of the Exeter Newsletter today", then they called back that day and said they'd be at the event to cover the story.  :)

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 24, 2005, 08:04 AM NHFT
Somehow, a radio station in Missouri called The Power Hour picked up this story and called me this morning.

http://www.thepowerhour.com/

Lordy  :o

Connecting with all the right people :D

Oh, the power hour...I just remembered...they had some article on the national ID, so I sent them a press release.

The Power Hour is a kooky conspiracy show on the same network that FTL is on.  Their listener base is very dedicated, and very nutty.  They will frequently call FTL and drop the Power Hour's hosts' names as though we care or anyone knows who the hosts are.

Publicity is publicity, though. 

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 24, 2005, 09:45 AM NHFT
The Power Hour is a kooky conspiracy show on the same network that FTL is on.? Their listener base is very dedicated, and very nutty.? They will frequently call FTL and drop the Power Hour's hosts' names as though we care or anyone knows who the hosts are.

Publicity is publicity, though.?

Hmmm...

Well I like how they called it "Al C.I.A.da" instead of "Al Qaeda", but only because our government's reaction to 9/11 is far worse than 9/11.

I like kooks.

Russmo cartoon


[attachment deleted by admin]

Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 24, 2005, 09:45 AM NHFT
The Power Hour is a kooky conspiracy show on the same network that FTL is on.? Their listener base is very dedicated, and very nutty.

I thought that was a description of your listeners >:D
I can't help myself. 8)

Yes, but the same kind of nutty...  ;D

http://cryptome.org/no-id-fly.htm

  --------- Forwarded message ----------
  From: Brad Barnhill <bradbva at mindspring.com>
  To: PersonalOdyssey <PersonalOdyssey at yahoogroups.com>
  Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2005 22:40:15 -0800
  Subject: [PersonalOdyssey] No requirement for ID to fly

  -------------------------------------------------------------------~->

  I had to fly out to Kansas to help with the final arrangements for my
  last grandparent.  I decided to challenge the ID requirement with the
  Gestapo.

  I printed a boarding pass thru the website for the airline, so that I
  did not have to go to the ticket counter. I packed my belongings for
  travel in one suitcase so that I did not have to check a bag. If you
  avoid the ticket counter at check-in, then you avoid the one of two
  places they can ask for ID.  They can check at the ticket counter and at
  the gate.

  Because the requirement for ID is in your contract of carriage with the
  airline, not with the Gestapo. There is no statutory or regulatory
  requirement for anyone to show photo ID to the TSA. It flat out does not
  exist.

  I have an FAA flyer document in the Files section of Personal Odyssey. 
  It contains ALL of the law on this matter.  There are only two ways you
  can be denied boarding.  One is to refuse to show ID to the
  AIRLINE--contract of carriage.  The other is to refuse to consent to a
  search by the TSA--statute and regulation. So be prepared to not refuse
  either to the appropriate "person."

  Anyway, I bypassed the ticket counter entirely.  Got in line for entry
  to the "sterile area."  It was pretty busy near noon time in Vegas for
  outbound flights, the line was pretty long, and the "snake" line inside
  the sterile area was longer.  It took about ten minutes to get the the
  entry, and I noticed that most people at the end of the snake when I
  arrived had not progressed very far at all.

  When I got to the entry, the person there was not TSA, she was a rental
  cop.  Pretty fuscia jacket and all.  Handed her my boarding pass and an
  FAA flyer from the site.  She looked at me and asked for ID.  I asked
  her why.  She was dumbfounded.  Took her awhile to say, I need to know
  who you are. Let me introduce myself. I am called Brad.  How else can I
  help you?  I need to see your driver's license.  Do I need to have a
  license to drive in order to board an aircraft?  I ask.  Silence.  You
  have to show me identification.  I would be pleased to show you
  identification as soon as you show me the statutory or regulatory
  requirement to do so.

  So she closed her position by pulling the band across the entry and
  walked me over to someone more "experienced."  Got some dirty looks from
  folks behind me in line.  The new guy was not TSA.  Gave him a flyer. 
  Pretty much the same conversation with the new guy.  He closed his
  position and walked me over to the next person.  Got a "Thanx a lot
  buddy." from someone in line.  Told him that my essential liberty was
  more important than his temporary safety.

  The next person was older, but just as clueless.  Handed her a flyer. 
  Same conversation.  She was talking to another much older woman. 

  Collectively, they had no clue.  They discuss whether they should call
  Metro (police).  I asked them what law was I breaking.  I told them if
  they had me arrested that would be a shame, when all they have to do is
  call over the TSA.  They paged the head honcho TSA guy.  Took him a
  little time to get there.

  I introduced myself and handed him my boarding pass and a flyer.  Do you
  have ID? he asked.  Sure, I said.  Are you refusing to show the ID?  No,
  I am not refusing, I am simply asking for your statutory or regulatory
  authority for me to do so.  Without blinking, he walked me to the head
  of the first class line and asked me to put my stuff on the belt.  He
  told the girl at the metal detector that I was designated as a
  selectee.  I thanked him and he went about his business elsewhere.

  They guy that showed up to hand search me asked if I was wearing a
  pacemaker or had some implant. I said no, I did not.  He was pretty
  confused, as it was apparent that they were not taking folks out of line
  for a hand check.  He wanded me down and patted the spots on my jeans
  where the metal rivets were located.  I had to loosen my belt and he
  checked the belt and inside my waistband.  He then told me he was going
  to pat down my upper torso.  I asked him if he had some kind of probable
  cause to believe I was carrying some weapon when his wand had not
  alerted anywhere on my upper torso.  He indicated that he did not, but
  that he wanted to pat me down.  I told him that I could not refuse the
  search, but that I objected to what I considered to be an unreasonable
  search, given the circumstances.  He patted me down anyway.

  Next my bags were completely emptied, all of the contents where swabbed
  and run thru their chem detectors.  All of the electronic equipment was
  swabbed and sniffed as well.  They did not unwrap my lunch that was
  wrapped in aluminum foil.  The girl repacked my bags and I asked her if
  I was free to go.  She said yes.

  The guy that had fussed at me was still on the other side of the metal
  detectors.  I had gotten thru before him.

  The airline did not ask me for ID at the gate.

  Somebody call John Gilmore and show him how to get on a plane without
  showing ID.

  It is not about refusing to show ID.

  It is about contracting to show the ID after they provide the
  requirement.

  I wonder if any of the TSA read their flyers.

  I think I am going to file a suit for declaratory judgment as to whether
  the search was unreasonable under the circumstances.
  Cost them more than it costs me.

  B


  Only Brad can post messages to PersonalOdyssey.
  Should you wish to post a message, then send it to
  PersonalOdyssey-owner at egroups.com
  I will edit out your email address and other identifying
  information, and post it with my reply.

I can't believe they didn't unwrap his lunch.  Aluminum foil!

Just goes to show us that the TSA is about harassment, not Safety.

Very interesting :)

Brilliant.   ;D

I got this comment about the FTT event:

Quoterussell says, "Before airport security was federalized in 2001, I was free to do this, but not anymore."

not true. it was the airlines who really got the ID tyranny happening, and they did it long before 2001. yes, you could get somewhere without ID, but it wasn't way easier than doing it now. the airlines are perhaps a bigger problem than the TSA. they often use the fedgoons as cover for their nazi policies.

Are the airlines using the power of gov't against us?

The other way around.

So which reporter did you let "break" the story Mike?

http://www.wpherald.com/storyview.php?StoryID=20050519-015659-6240r
Case will test REAL ID asylum law
By Shaun Waterman
UPI Homeland and National Security Editor
Published May 19, 2005

WASHINGTON -- A federal court is scheduled next week to hear the first case in which the Bush administration is using controversial provisions of the newly minted REAL ID Act that limit the right of appeal for people refused asylum.
   
    Ablavi Malm, 51, was ordered deported to Togo because her appeal invoking the protection of anti-torture statutes was filed 20 days late, according to her lawyer, Morton Sklar of the World Organization for Human Rights USA.
   
    Sklar says Togolese security forces are notorious for their poor human-rights record and that Malm and members of her family there have been tortured.
   
    The REAL ID Act, signed into law last week, mainly deals with the integrity of the nation's drivers' licensing systems. But it also includes a series of provisions designed to counter what its authors say is abuse of the asylum and refugee system by terrorists.
   
    The case is likely to become a flashpoint for arguments about the asylum provisions of the new law.
   
    "I'm amazed that the government would use the legislation in this way," Sklar told United Press International. "It is even harsher than Congress intended.
   
    "This 51-year-old rape survivor is about as far from a terrorist threat as it is possible to get."
   
    The asylum provisions in the new law, say its authors, were designed to stop those whose application for asylum had been denied dragging out their cases with repeated appeals and prevent appeals courts second guessing judges' views about the credibility of would-be refugees.
   
    To do this, the law removes the right of would-be refugees to file petitions under habeas corpus -- a legal doctrine regarding whether a person is being held legally.
   
    The Department of Justice, in papers filed Tuesday, said the law means the courts cannot hear Malm's appeal.
   
    "This is a very long standing and carefully preserved right," Sklar said of habeas corpus. "It is a last resort to ensure that fundamental rights are not eliminated by administrative fiat."
   
    Malm's case, say her supporters, is an excellent example of why habeas corpus is important.
   
    The U.N. Convention Against Torture, to which the United States is a signatory, bans the deportation of people to countries where they might be tortured. In common with all international treaties, it is implemented in U.S. law by an act of Congress.
   
    Administration officials, in turn, drew up regulations governing how the law would be applied. It is these regulations that Malm fell afoul of by filing her appeal too late.
   
    Her appeal against deportation was rejected by immigration courts and the 4th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals, but Sklar says those courts never examined the case on the merits and never looked at the underlying constitutional and legal issues.
   
    "There is nothing in either the convention or the law about a time limit for filing an appeal," he said. The time limit is an administrative measure devised essentially for the convenience of the government, Sklar argues, and as such has to be weighed against the constitutional and legal rights of the appellant.
   
    The law's authors argued that habeas corpus was being used by those who wished to exploit the asylum system to get a second hearing after their cases had been decided.
   
    But her supporters say Malm's case has never been considered on the merits because she filed too late. "The fundamental issues have never been examined," said Sklar.
   
    The law's defenders say the stakes are too high to give potential terrorists a second chance to slip through the net by pretending to flee persecution.
   
    But critics charge the provision is unjustifiably tough and will lead to innocents like Malm being, as Sklar says, "deported to torture."
   
    No one at the Justice department could be reached for comment about the case Wednesday evening.

Quote from: katdillon on May 24, 2005, 04:10 PM NHFT
? ? No one at the Justice department could be reached for comment about the case Wednesday evening.

Well it is a small office.......they probably had all gone home. ;)

Cool.  Mary Lou Seymore has been posting our stuff on Liberty Action News  http://www.rationalreview.com/land/

Russell's sent the letter to the airport authorities and right now he's interviewing with the Portsmouth Herald.

I didn't realize that your reporter friend was the same woman who wrote the first few Myrtle Woodward/ Barbara Burbank articles. She still can't believe what they are doing do that family and to Mike for a manicure.

Yep, Beth seems like a great person!? :)? ?I'll wait a few days until her article comes out to release the PR to all outlets.

Russell, did you consider sending your letter to the Attorney General's office as well?? ;)? I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd done that in the first place, but it could have created a greater response.? Who knows?

Re:? "No ID Requirement to Fly"

There's no actual ID requirement to fly?? We'll see about that when all the TV cameras are watching.

Russell, if this happens to you, and they try to pass you through without it, will you refuse the "selectee" search and continue to demand they allow you on the flight?

If we can return to the time when all we had to do was walk through a metal detector without ID....that would be good. When we are done with this push.....normal people should feel comfortable again going through the airport.....not taking off their shoes and clothes and getting patted down etc.........So I will not cooperate with any of those intrusive demeaning steps, that way others won't either.

I don't think this will be a victory...if I have to have a long discussion with each level of security, show them all the laws, and subject myself to a strip search....normal people shouldn't have to go through that routine to get on a plane.

In my letter to the airport director....I talked about customer comfort and ease of use. That is the goal.......and no ID! :)

So I will cooperate with a metal detector walkthrough and that is it.....they shouldn't need to use a wand (since I will not have any metal on me) and I won't take off any clothing.

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 24, 2005, 10:47 PM NHFTRussell, did you consider sending your letter to the Attorney General's office as well?? ;)? I'm not sure what would have happened if I'd done that in the first place, but it could have created a greater response.? Who knows?

John Gilmore has been fighting with John Ascroft. I guess this would concern the US AG not NH.......but I guess we don't really know ....since it is "secret".

Quote from: russellkanning on May 24, 2005, 06:39 PM NHFT
I didn't realize that your reporter friend was the same woman who wrote the first few Myrtle Woodward/ Barbara Burbank articles. She still can't believe what they are doing do that family and to Mike for a manicure.

Well it's time to believe.  It happens every day.
. . . so while some of our protests against these abuses are "Flashes" they are not mere Flashes in the pan.  We are taking it to the street.  We are taking it to Town Hall.  We are taking it to Concord.  We are taking it to folks walking by.  We are meeting folks and getting the word out.  We are taking back Liberty.

Before we win, we may need to take some of these matters before jurys.
Thats when we will take back Liberty & Justice.

Anyone going to be able to bring a video camera? 

Today's Portsmouth Herald!


By Elizabeth Dinan
edinan@seacoastonline

Since his arrest for conducting a public manicure without a license, Free Stater Mike Fisher plans to stay out of trouble until his court-ordered, one-year of good behavior expires. In the meantime, the Newmarket activist is announcing that the Free State Project?s next planned public act of disobedience will be a federal case.

The Free State Project publicist announced that on June 11, Keene resident Russell Kanning will travel to Manchester Airport and refuse to cooperate with federal law requiring a show of identification.

Like Fisher, he also plans to get arrested. And he said he "has no idea" what the federal consequences will be.

"No one really knows what the rules are in that world," said Kanning, an accountant who moved from Wyoming to participate in the New Hampshire-based Free State Project.

The FSP has a goal of luring 20,000 libertarian-minded people to the Granite State to fight government laws and regulations, while creating a Free State state.

At last count, the FSP population count was reportedly 6,000.

Kanning?s plan calls for buying a plane ticket to Philadelphia, with a goal of visiting Independence Hall, but without ever showing identification to TSA authorities. His inspirations, he said, are Ghandi and Fisher.

Fisher was arrested April 9 for staging a public manicure, without the required state license, in front of the Manchester office of the state Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics, the board that governs nail salons. His act of civil disobedience, disguised as a manicure, was conducted to protect what he believes is over-regulation by government on citizens and small businesses.

Fisher was arrested and spent the night in jail.

The person whose nails he filed is Kanning?s wife.

"Hopefully there will be a pile of people up there," said Kanning. "We?re hoping other people will follow and do similar things so they don?t remember who started it all."

I can't imagine Russell remaining silent  :o

They did not read my Miranda rights when I was arrested.  I planned to plead guilty anyways, but I'm not surprised by this at all.

The real question is whether Russell will plead guilty.

Dang you're fast Mike!  You've got that article up all over :)

Google News Alerts are sweet.  They tell you as news happens.

Unfortunately, I might regret setting up a Google News Alert for anything matching "Russell Kanning".  When he pulls off his event, I will be e-mail-bombed with news stories.  ;)

Good problem to have :)  How did you say the Portsmouth Herald found out about this?

Quote from: katdillon on May 25, 2005, 09:27 AM NHFT
Good problem to have :)? How did you say the Portsmouth Herald found out about this?

She called me a few times and I think I may have mentioned it to her once and she did not ignore it.

If not, then she must have read about it on NHFree.com.

Now, it's time for me to call all of my press contacts!

Russell, are you going to put your letter online?

Sent the press release to a couple of NV papers telling them that Russell recently moved from there.

I sent the press release and article link to my contacts at Foster's, Exeter Newsletter, Union Leader, and the Boston Globe.

When it makes the front page somewhere, I'll call everyone, including WMUR and the AP.

We need to see if we can get a reporter contact at the Concord Monitor through Bill Dampier, the author of that positive column in the Concord Monitor.

If anyone gets in touch with him, see if you can get the name, e-mail address, and/or phone number of a reporter at the paper and please send it to me.  :)

Service with a smile from el presidente :)

That is a good president... one who works for the people.

I will probably plead guilty to an immoral law.....if there is one.....or I won't acknowledge that they have any right to charge me or try me......depends on what they actually do I guess. :)

Very interesting, Russell.  But I would plead guilty, even though everyone and their dog tells me not to.  ;)

president, thanks for the info.  I do not usually Google any press contacts because of the extreme value of networking.  Networking with my business contacts is how I actually found almost all of my press contacts.  Networking for contact info is far more effective than Googled contact info, especially in this instance.

Thanks, though!  :)

Every not guilty plea is a chance for FIJA protests.

Doesnt a misdemeanor require the possibility of jail time? Which is what separates it from a violation/fine. Also I was wondering if the burning id cards idea that was posed awhile ago would be happening in conjunction with this event or was that idea scrapped/ postponed.

I think Kat will plan this for after the airport festivities. 8)

I am sooo tired right now as I near the third day of my self-purification fast.? The first day or so was the hardest.? ?:o

Here's a quote regarding this freedom to travel civil disobedience event that really struck my wife as unjust and absurd:

"You can't read the actual law, but you have to abide by it."

Varrin's article on aviation security:

http://varrin.com/security.htm

Varrin is so 'clean cut', it's scary. ;D

I wonder what the punishment is for what Russell is going to do.

It would be nice if we could read the law.   ::)