I still can't believe the whole "safe spaces" on college campuses is real. I thought the legends of such things were exaggerations used to make fun of oversensitive college students who boo comedians off stage when they feel offended (https://www.thewrap.com/comedians-avoiding-campus-when-did-universities-lose-their-sense-of-humor/). But between Yale (http://dailycaller.com/2015/11/06/yale-student-shrieks-at-prof-for-denying-her-safe-space-video/) and Mizzou (http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/11/09/mizzou-protesters-to-media-stay-out-of-our-safe-space-or-we-ll-call-the-cops.html) (no relation) there does seem to be an expectation that anyone deserves to not hear anything they don't like because... safety?
What if Molyneux's style of isolationism (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CUoZBfz7r0U); the idea that if you ever have an argument/disagreement with someone, then you should "block" them and demand that you never see each other again is just the original safe space?
Here comes the whining, my tremendous disappointment with New Hampshire is the fear of conflict. Have a disagreement and fraudulent accusations or way out of line insults will be thrown. (Not JUST talking about Cantwell here.) You'll then be cut off from digital communication, banned from the "club," or be scowled at with every physical appearance.
This is beginning to look a lot like....
https://youtu.be/sXQkXXBqj_U (https://youtu.be/sXQkXXBqj_U)
The real question is, where did this sort of thinking, once thought to be a joke, culminate from? The only theory I've come across is Generation Z growing up with ideas like participation trophies and coddling. But there seems to be some bleed over into Gen Y... can't quite get my finger on this one.
You may now endlessly debate and whine at my whining. If you disagree... I'll sabotage you. (Because real men sabotage their enemies. Blocking is for pussies.)
Quote from: eglove on November 15, 2015, 02:58 AM NHFT
Have a disagreement and fraudulent accusations or way out of line insults will be thrown. (Not JUST talking about Cantwell here.) You'll then be cut off from digital communication, banned from the "club," or be scowled at with every physical appearance.
The real question is, where did this sort of thinking, once thought to be a joke, culminate from? The only theory I've come across is Generation Z growing up with ideas like participation trophies and coddling. But there seems to be some bleed over into Gen Y... can't quite get my finger on this one.
The jews have been doing this for a while. Other groups are just starting to catch on. ;)
Can we get a moderator to shut this discussion down. There are "trigger" words that are upsetting me!
I think I need a hug. :'(
I think it comes from the time when they stopped telling people to, 'stand up and defend yourself'. People seem to need society to give them all of their security.
I don't know where it started, but I know that the attitude towards letting society handle all your problems was around in the 1960s.
Now that I think about it, the idea of 'someone is going to come and solve all of your problems' is pre-Jewdain and flows through most modern beliefs.
The idea that a savior will come or that 'The One' can be elected to a government office... or is it that Government itself is 'The One'?
Quote from: Jim Johnson on November 15, 2015, 09:32 AM NHFT
... or is it that Government itself is 'The One'?
That just went full on meta.
I think we need a "Blood for Liberty (https://youtu.be/AGIWPIUCX_E)" tradition.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 15, 2015, 08:33 AM NHFT
Can we get a moderator to shut this discussion down. There are "trigger" words that are upsetting me!
I think I need a hug. :'(
The word "generation" usually triggers me.
Quote from: eglove on November 15, 2015, 12:55 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jim Johnson on November 15, 2015, 09:32 AM NHFT
... or is it that Government itself is 'The One'?
That just went full on meta.
I think we need a "Blood for Liberty (https://youtu.be/AGIWPIUCX_E)" tradition.
At least they aren't crying for safe spaces.
Quote from: eglove on November 15, 2015, 12:56 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 15, 2015, 08:33 AM NHFT
Can we get a moderator to shut this discussion down. There are "trigger" words that are upsetting me!
I think I need a hug. :'(
The word "generation" usually triggers me.
I'm triggered by "hug".
Quote from: eglove on November 15, 2015, 02:58 AM NHFT
Here comes the whining, my tremendous disappointment with New Hampshire is the fear of conflict. Have a disagreement and fraudulent accusations or way out of line insults will be thrown. (Not JUST talking about Cantwell here.) You'll then be cut off from digital communication, banned from the "club," or be scowled at with every physical appearance.
You and I must be experiencing a different New Hampshire.
Quote from: KBCraig on November 15, 2015, 04:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: eglove on November 15, 2015, 02:58 AM NHFT
Here comes the whining, my tremendous disappointment with New Hampshire is the fear of conflict. Have a disagreement and fraudulent accusations or way out of line insults will be thrown. (Not JUST talking about Cantwell here.) You'll then be cut off from digital communication, banned from the "club," or be scowled at with every physical appearance.
You and I must be experiencing a different New Hampshire.
eglove is a lot closer to Massaholess... it has its affects.
Cops and Corps
will make you sore
if you hurt
my feelings
Someone needs to give Johnson a hug. ;D
I think eglove is experiencing backlash for being critical of behaviors. Kill the messenger attitudes. Nothing new there.
Ahhhhh...!
Never could keep my damn mouth shut.
I don't say anything that isn't already being said. But I'm nice enough to say, "Hey asshole! We're talking about you!" .... :soapbox:
A regular Dale Carnegie!
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 16, 2015, 08:57 AM NHFT
A regular Dale Carnegie!
lol, maybe not quite that, but I've said some things.... :blush:
How Not to Sell Libertarianism (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/not-sell-libertarianism.php)
10 Tips for Selling Libertarianism (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/10-tips-selling-libertarianism.php)
Precision v. Aggression in Activism (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/precision-aggression-activism.php)
Robin Hooding - It Could Be Better (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/robin-hooding-better.php)
Is Liberty.Me a Scam? (https://ethanglover.biz/blog/liberty-scam.php)
Bitcoin Isn't Your Soapbox (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/bitcoin-isnt-soapbox.php)
Don't Give Me Homework (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/dont-give-me-homework.php)
Dying For Liberty (Not a Good Idea) (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/dying-liberty-not-good-idea.php)
Online Civility (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/online-civility.php)
Real Conversation (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/real-conversation.php)
Lots of stuff is symptomatic of humans in general not wanting to face reality/truth.
Quote from: eglove on November 16, 2015, 03:57 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 16, 2015, 08:57 AM NHFT
A regular Dale Carnegie!
lol, maybe not quite that, but I've said some things.... :blush:
How Not to Sell Libertarianism (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/not-sell-libertarianism.php)
10 Tips for Selling Libertarianism (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/10-tips-selling-libertarianism.php)
Precision v. Aggression in Activism (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/precision-aggression-activism.php)
Robin Hooding - It Could Be Better (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/robin-hooding-better.php)
Is Liberty.Me a Scam? (https://ethanglover.biz/blog/liberty-scam.php)
Bitcoin Isn't Your Soapbox (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/bitcoin-isnt-soapbox.php)
Don't Give Me Homework (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/dont-give-me-homework.php)
Dying For Liberty (Not a Good Idea) (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/dying-liberty-not-good-idea.php)
Online Civility (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/online-civility.php)
Real Conversation (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/real-conversation.php)
Some good blog posts there. 8)
The analogy between safe spaces and reputation... seems a reach. Are you against people choosing who they have as friends and who they do business with and otherwise associate with? There are people I will never hire because I've heard horror stories from people I trust. How is that like a safe space?
Quote from: dalebert on November 18, 2015, 08:46 AM NHFT
The analogy between safe spaces and reputation... seems a reach. Are you against people choosing who they have as friends and who they do business with and otherwise associate with? There are people I will never hire because I've heard horror stories from people I trust. How is that like a safe space?
I'm pretty sure you're creating a safe space by shunning people you only suspect of being not worthy of your association.
Quote from: Jim Johnson on November 18, 2015, 10:07 AM NHFT
Quote from: dalebert on November 18, 2015, 08:46 AM NHFT
The analogy between safe spaces and reputation... seems a reach. Are you against people choosing who they have as friends and who they do business with and otherwise associate with? There are people I will never hire because I've heard horror stories from people I trust. How is that like a safe space?
I'm pretty sure you're creating a safe space by shunning people you only suspect of being not worthy of your association.
Kinda like them white only men only clubs that used to be everywhere. Funny how things come around.
Maybe eglove has threatened the echo chamber.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 18, 2015, 10:49 AM NHFT
Maybe eglove has threatened the echo chamber.
Thought I just had : Cantwell never marketed his wares to people who would actually move here, just angry people who are comfortable where they are in life. That's why he was always a nuisance, and why any sane discussion about it never did and never will go anywhere.
To bring up one of Ethan's points...
I think fear of conflict is what eventually made Robin Hooding look like a turd and a laughing stock. By the "manger" not wanting to deal with mistakes he made with letting certain individuals do it under the official banner, instead choosing to complain about their behavior in private ad nauseam without acting, two people over a long period of time completely destroyed any hope of it ever being a positive example to show the world.
That is to say, a lot of us don't have a fear of confronting what we see as a cold and lifeless corporate entity that is the Government. But on a personal level, we have a long way to go with evolving our methods of communication...to the point of minimizing the casual lying and conflict avoidance that is part of daily life.
Quote from: dalebert on November 18, 2015, 08:46 AM NHFT
The analogy between safe spaces and reputation... seems a reach. Are you against people choosing who they have as friends and who they do business with and otherwise associate with? There are people I will never hire because I've heard horror stories from people I trust. How is that like a safe space?
I'm talking about the perversion of this that you got to in the most recent post. First, if someone steals from your store, hang his picture up and refuse to sell. I think it a little odd if other stores copy that picture and put it everywhere it's A) overkill, and B) banning someone based on hearsay. But that's not really the point.
The point is, if you take that idea, and try to apply it socially.
- Cantwell won't speak to me because he messed up his site after I warned him about buying some shit on Fiverr. After he lost traffic, I spoke about it and he blamed me to save face. Blocked me everywhere, refuses to speak about it, tells people I'm a "saboteur" and says he's just "choosing whom he associates with."
- Johnson won't speak with me because I made some jokes about Cantwell and he called that fraud. Blocked, refuses to "associate" in real life, blah, blah, blah.
- Most recently, Michael Dean has blocked me because he mentioned he has sleep apnea and I told him I started to get breathing problems in my sleep when I gained a lot of weight. He says I'm selling snake oil, don't know a damn thing, blocked, refuses to "associate" with "people like me."
This has nothing to do with reputation, but a fear of going from one disagreement to a discussion of what's going on. It's always immediate block, refuse to associate, and in some cases tell your friends not to do so either.
I'll be talking with Rich Paul later tonight about two subjects. From my notes:
Sub. 1: "This is the most perverse dynamic you've ever seen isn't it? Do what we suggest you do, go through all the trouble and do the peaceful protest and nobody's going to notice. But do what we tell you not to do -- that nobody wants you to do -- that actually hurts the very communities these folks are protesting in... oh you might be rewarded with a lot of air time, and your cause being debated, and maybe a little legislative action... that's perverse." -Dan Carlin
This isn't about who's right, this is about the perverseness of how these things work, and possibly how to avoid getting trapped in that system.
Sub. 2: On how libertarians build "safe spaces" for themselves, boss' theory with friends is ~ "We can argue, insult one another, punch each other in the face, but at the end of the day we have a beer and get over it."
This is the discussion I attempted to have on stage at PorcFest, but it got hijacked by Carla and Ian who turned it into an advertisement for the FSP. They got some cheap applause, but the discussion afterward showed me that there are a lot of people who know exactly what I'm talking about.
A sidenote: my sleep apnea went away when I stopped eating grains as part of going on low carb to lose weight. 4 years and 100lbs later, if I have a couple of donuts, some fried rice, or cereal it comes right back for about 24 hours. I don't think it's cut and dry as losing weight, as lots of "normal" people have it. But I think allergens, even though it was not a severe reaction in my case, have a bigger role to play.
As far as social shunning goes...I think people go through a phase during their lives where they blame others, without being introspective about how they are ultimately responsible for remaining in situations that are making them unwell.
I've said it before, that it must be like what it was to be a Socialist in the 30s. A pat party line answer that every problem will be solved if you just follow our true way. And anyone that breaks the party line is to be pushed out.
I used to think I had all the answers. Even if I did (I don't) you alienate allies and future converts with the 'Let's find where we disagree and then argue to a stand still.'
Some players primary goal is to create controversy to get attention/traffic. Some players are socially ignorant and aren't the folks that others listen to for a new path.
The guy I first got deeply involved with in Libertarian circles in the late 70s had an approach that I later learned to respect (if not always follow). He would talk about one topic, correct me when I fell into error and then shut up, go onto pleasant socializing. I found that later on when I tried to do research to perhaps prove him wrong, I found out he was right. That built trust and prevented tensions from blowing us apart.
Especially among new converts there is the potential for zealotry. I was guilty of it. Sometimes I still am. If you can be open enough to take in someone else's opinion or life view you learn something and it can humble you enough to not act like an ass (guilty of this s well).
It's all about the long haul, not some flash in the pan crap.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 18, 2015, 04:20 PM NHFT
I've said it before, that it must be like what it was to be a Socialist in the 30s. A pat party line answer that every problem will be solved if you just follow our true way. And anyone that breaks the party line is to be pushed out.
I used to think I had all the answers. Even if I did (I don't) you alienate allies and future converts with the 'Let's find where we disagree and then argue to a stand still.'
Some players primary goal is to create controversy to get attention/traffic. Some players are socially ignorant and aren't the folks that others listen to for a new path.
The guy I first got deeply involved with in Libertarian circles in the late 70s had an approach that I later learned to respect (if not always follow). He would talk about one topic, correct me when I fell into error and then shut up, go onto pleasant socializing. I found that later on when I tried to do research to perhaps prove him wrong, I found out he was right. That built trust and prevented tensions from blowing us apart.
Especially among new converts there is the potential for zealotry. I was guilty of it. Sometimes I still am. If you can be open enough to take in someone else's opinion or life view you learn something and it can humble you enough to not act like an ass (guilty of this s well).
It's all about the long haul, not some flash in the pan crap.
My approach has been to mirror people. Wherever their energy is, I follow. If the barber wants to talk about how the FSP seems "Pretty cool, people fighting for they believe in." My response is, "Yeah, and not just that, but fighting for others to be able to choose what works for them. Literally, what they believe in."
If a journalist lists the reason he's not a libertarian, starting with a straw-man on the definition of it, I bend his words to show he's a libertarian and send it over with a wink and a nod.
Maybe it's not perfect, but it seems to work well enough for now.
If that journalist were someone I knew personally, and called me a fraud for bending his words, I'd let it go for awhile, and catch up later. That's not unhealthy or harmful behavior. It's the opposite. Relationships will never be perfect, I don't care how isolated you are. This Molyneuvian 'against me' way of doing things at the first sign of trouble is childish and ultimately harms our ability to learn from one another and develop respect for one another.
Or to bring it around, as one Mizzou faculty said, this idea of "safe spaces" is not how we grow intellectually. We have to be able to push one another, air disagreements, argue. That's how we learn.
The results of our sit down discussion on activism (https://ethanglover.biz/politics/sit-down-discussion-activism/).
The after discussion may have revealed some reservations I've had with NH. That my very first experience with NH was Cantwell calling me a liar and "saboteur," and it's left a bad taste in my mouth. As a doe-eyed freshman to the state, that was a much bigger deal to me than everyone else. It kind of snowballed into some nonsense with some others, but it's still not a big deal... apparently. #introspection
Quote from: eglove on November 18, 2015, 03:06 PM NHFT
Most recently, Michael Dean has blocked me because he mentioned he has sleep apnea and I told him I started to get breathing problems in my sleep when I gained a lot of weight. He says I'm selling snake oil, don't know a damn thing, blocked, refuses to "associate" with "people like me."[/li][/list]
I'm not closely involved, but I do remember him issuing an open statement that anyone offering unsolicited medical advice would be blocked.
Quote from: KBCraig on November 20, 2015, 01:39 AM NHFT
I'm not closely involved, but I do remember him issuing an open statement that anyone offering unsolicited medical advice would be blocked.
Precisely wrong. A total misinterpretation of the "rules" that were set. He also got pissed for calling out someone actually selling snake oil. If I knew his goal was to kill himself I would have avoided saying anything like in all his other bullshit medical FB posts. Doesn't matter, though. The email made it loud and clear what a pissy brat he wanted to be. I've got no problem with his chosen behavior.
Bringing it again around to 'safe spaces.' This is pretty much how things work. People hear something they don't like, whine about the person who says it and then drop the mic and skedaddle. There's never going to be a resolution because they've cut that person off. Nobody will ever know what really happened because the conversation is deleted and the real story buried. There's a belief that whoever runs off after making an accusation first wins. And to some tards on the internet who love drama, they see that mic drop and go, "Oh shit! He told you!" Even though they've no idea what's going on.
BTW, there's a theory that these safe spaces started when the assistant secretary of education asked universities to take a hard stance on sexual harassment on campuses. This then empowered the already existing SJW's to take the forefront in viral media. Intervention... fucks it up every time.
Quote from: eglove on November 20, 2015, 10:42 PM NHFT
I've got no problem with his chosen behavior.
It really seems like you do.
Now that we have a quorum I call to order the Insomniacs for Liberty.
It's easy to take personal interaction through the internet too seriously. It really is.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 20, 2015, 11:33 PM NHFT
Now that we have a quorum I call to order the Insomniacs for Liberty.
According to my daily feed, that's an actual thing (http://insomniaclibertarian.blogspot.com/). Although... another one of those "news aggregators" that makes me want to throw up.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on November 15, 2015, 08:33 AM NHFT
Can we get a moderator to shut this discussion down. There are "trigger" words that are upsetting me!
I think I need a hug. :'(
you make meah rauff so harr my side hurt
I have heard a little about these Safe Spaces .... exactly what are they?
Quote from: Russell Kanning on November 23, 2015, 04:43 PM NHFT
I have heard a little about these Safe Spaces .... exactly what are they?
"A place where anyone can relax and be fully self-expressed, without fear of being made to feel uncomfortable, unwelcome or unsafe..."
I think it started in the LGBT community and spread like a virus. Not that the concept is new, but the term kind of went viral thanks to Mizzou students trying to ban media from asking questions in their "safe space."
There already existed the legal concept of your "Safe Space" it's your person, place and effects. Not any old random public space you chose.
fully self expressed
sounds funny
I have met some people that would be scary if fully self expressed
I'm pretty sure feminists started it and then there was a competition to see who was the most oppressed and everyone was scrambling for that title.
I can see that happening
I'm trashing an article because the first half turned out to be wrong. Lo and behold the media was lying about something. But, here's an unedited note I made toward the end:
"People like [not important] are desperatly looking for a battle to join, or a group to belong to. Where their unthought out and simple, rehashed opinions given to them by outdated textbooks in their colleges are appreciated. The lack of original thought from these people isn't helping anyone. It's only increasing the tensions between people. The sooner we can come together to concentrate on real issues, the sooner we can put any nonsense about race behind us."
aha and hmmm