New Hampshire Underground

http://www.ipetitions.com/petition/ian-bernard-does-not-speak-for-me

"You're not one of us until you're ruining for the rest of us."

Pride comes before a fall.

I observed years of hubris and arrogance. Including gangs of his supporters attacking anyone who dared to say WTF.

If people are free to do what they want and that is to include undesirable behaviors, others are free to disassociate.

I think attacking and banning are the wrong course. It leads to a backlash.

I think the growing pains are to be expected and creative destruction can be the beginning of good things.

Sorry that some are hurt in this process.

yep

I support social shunning; I do so daily, just by declining to engage or interact with certain people.

Several years ago I chose that same route when it came to a certain radio show: I just stopped listening. No drama, no announcements.

A few weeks ago, I grew tired of that show host's endless attempts to create and then pimp drama where drama didn't need to exist. I dropped him, but I didn't bother adding to the drama by signing a petition and blasting it all over social media.

Now hard is it to *not* announce to the world that you're no longer best friends with Becky, because she is now friends with Jenny?

Middle schools was a looooong time ago.

Whoever wrote the pledge is delusional.

"For its first 15 years, the FSP was not well known, not even in New Hampshire. It took a lot of time and money to get each new signer. These days, the FSP is well-known in liberty circles worldwide, with coverage by major news media, having libertarian luminaries who support and endorse us. And we are definitely known in NH."

Wat

Is the FSP getting a bunch of major media coverage I don't know about?

Sometimes things get presented in a false dichotomy sort of way.    A person can acknowledge a person doesn't speak for them, but still appreciate their efforts in whole or in part or not at all.  It's also possible to support a persons efforts, while acknowledging you might have gone about something different than the way that person has. 

Ian doesn't speak for me,  I do.   However, I appreciate and support a lot of Ian's efforts.   

that is funny .... the FSP is bigger than it used to be ... but you can find plenty of people that have never heard of it.

Quote from: blackie on March 13, 2016, 05:45 AM NHFT
Is the FSP getting a bunch of major media coverage I don't know about?

I think it's easy for most people (not excluding myself either) to forget that nobody really gives a shit about what is happening out there.

However, on the flipside, any rumors/news that they come across sticks in their minds. It's funny that Denis Goddard and his death warrant signers magically think that disassociating with the "Shire Free Church" corporate conglomerate is going to make a difference to "normal" people who already have heard or read things. People are STILL threatening the life of Anarcho Jesse for burning the American flag in Keene Central square. They are still saying things like the FSP wants to take over Grafton and refuse to enforce prostitution laws and legalize dueling.

NH may be "freer", but it's a very "we know everyone's business and we never forget it" type of place.

The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.

Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 14, 2016, 04:52 PM NHFT
The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.

It appears to be a business decision.

QuoteFSP must no longer sponsor, advertise on, affiliate with, or accept sponsorship or advertising from:

Free Talk Live
Free Keene
Liberty Radio Network

Public Relations, advertising, marketing etc. involves understanding public perceptions and tailoring a message that has a positive influence.

Clearly many people feel that Ian is not the man for the job. Looking down the list I see many former associates that have lost faith in his "brand".

Some have even gone as far as to say he is an agent provocateur. In the end it doesn't matter who he works for...

In Ian's own words "The market has spoken!"  ;D

Maybe, the "you're not doing it right Ian" crowd has a point.  If the goal of some of the petitioners is to polish the turd of government to achieve a fine diamond like sheen, disassociating from Ian and his media might be the best thing for them.

My goal is not to polish the turd of involuntary government, I tried that a bit and got shit all over my hands.   

Although to be fair, I'll acknowledge it's certainly possible to hold both Ian and  government in contempt.   

I'm curious how the Free State Project from an organization perspective arrives at a decision to excommunicate a person and what the financial impact of a disassociation with Ian would be ?   

Is there any kind of a "double secret probation" or will only Ian's head on a pike suffice?






   

Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 14, 2016, 04:52 PM NHFT
The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.

I like that you used the word "sanctimonious" .  I think it oughta get more use. 

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 14, 2016, 07:51 PM NHFT
Public Relations, advertising, marketing etc. involves understanding public perceptions and tailoring a message that has a positive influence.

AKA crafting your lying to guile people stupid enough to buy your bullshit.

I don't think it's a coincidence that one of Ian's top detractors, who has been on a public and private campaign to disassociate him from FSP matters for years, is a full time paid propagandist for a living. One could even infer that someone like that could benefit financially from seeing Ian's media empire connection, provided at almost no cost to the FSP, severed. After all, someone has to do the job afterwards...right? And do it the right way this time! Fundraiser time...

Quote from: Jay on March 15, 2016, 09:31 AM NHFT

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 14, 2016, 07:51 PM NHFTPublic Relations, advertising, marketing etc. involves understanding public perceptions and tailoring a message that has a positive influence.

AKA crafting your lying to guile people stupid enough to buy your bullshit.

No, it's called "communicating."  If you are trying to present a particular message, but the way you are presenting it causes the recipient to receive a different message, then you are not actually providing the intended message.  So, proper communication involves tailoring the presentation to the recipient such that the message which is received is actually what is intended.

Now, someone could be doing that in order to deceive.  Someone can say one thing, but say it in such a way that the recipient takes away a very different message.  But someone can also do that in order to make sure that honest communication takes place.

Ian does seem to have an issue with communicating.  He presents things which are generally correct, but does it in such a way that many listeners come away with a completely different message, which is actually incorrect.  "It's none of my business who has sex with whom" says to a libertarian that he acknowledges others may make their own choices, and that there's no automatic need to assume something is wrong, unless someone makes an accusation of victimization; if such an accusation is made, anyone present may champion the cause of the victim.  To a non-libertarian, that says that he thinks predators should be able to get away with anything, and that no one should interfere, even if it is blatantly obvious that someone is being victimized.

Two very different results from the same words, because he does not choose his words to actually communicate the message to the entirety of his audience. It's like giving a speech in French to a mixed audience, and making a lot of metaphors involving seals.  It'll be "phoque this" and "phoque that," and the English-speaking members of the audience are just going to be hearing a bunch of cursing.

That said, I'm unimpressed with the level of extremism being applied to the Snowden recording.  From what I've been able to gather, audience members were asked, after the arrived, not to record.  Someone can correct me if I've been misled.  If that's the case, though, there was no contract not to record; in fact, those who bought tickets expecting to be able to record could claim that they were deceived.

In the case of Tasker, from what I've seen, he's correct: there is no one age of consent that actually applies to all people (some may be unable to consent well above the 16 years where the state law says they are able), Tasker is innocent until proven guilty, and the drug claims are obviously illegitimate in a free society.  That said, there are injustices taking place every day, and that seems like a very poor choice of which one to champion.

Quote from: Free libertarian on March 15, 2016, 08:36 AM NHFT

Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 14, 2016, 04:52 PM NHFT
The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.

I like that you used the word "sanctimonious" .  I think it oughta get more use.

So my dangs aren't good enough for you anymore???

Ya "sanctimonious" bastard!

Quote from: Jay on March 15, 2016, 09:31 AM NHFT

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 14, 2016, 07:51 PM NHFT
Public Relations, advertising, marketing etc. involves understanding public perceptions and tailoring a message that has a positive influence.

AKA crafting your lying to guile people stupid enough to buy your bullshit.

That was one of my complaints about Ian. Not quite lying, but spinning to the point of deception.

But, your point is taken. I worked in the political video post production world in DC. That is one of the reasons I am critical of BS. Libertarians need to be held to a higher standard then our opposition.

Effective communication is important, especially for us on the fringe. We have the burden of convincing a wider audience that we are heading in a viable direction to create a "bright and shining future".

At the peak of the underground's activism I could present Lauren's abuse by the court to family and friends and they were outraged and offered to help. Much of the activism that has happened in Keene since has not been something I could put in a light they would support. It bothers me that the tactic of civil disobedience has been largely discredited. We invested much and took many risks that were pretty much squandered away.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 15, 2016, 06:50 PM NHFT
That was one of my complaints about Ian. Not quite lying, but spinning to the point of deception.

I think of it more like Ian has a PhD. in trolling. He's had over a decade of practice on his show on how to get guests riled up over the opinions and beliefs they hold.

QuoteAt the peak of the underground's activism I could present Lauren's abuse by the court to family and friends and they were outraged and offered to help. Much of the activism that has happened in Keene since has not been something I could put in a light they would support. It bothers me that the tactic of civil disobedience has been largely discredited. We invested much and took many risks that were pretty much squandered away.

The shark may have jumped on any kind of Civ Dis because of some kind of general cultural shift regarding the production, delivery, and consumption of news. A generation of youth's too embedded in their iDevices to care much.

I think I said it on here before, it's too easy to want to play dirty mind tricks to get people on our side. Better to find a message that really inspires people. If I figure something out, I'll do it. (lol, like I know what I'm doing...)

Quote from: MaineShark on March 15, 2016, 05:39 PM NHFT
That said, there are injustices taking place every day, and that seems like a very poor choice of which one to champion.

You're correct, and that's why it's a tiny tiny percentage of the topics discussed on FTL/Free Keene. Perhaps folks just get upset about and remember the prurient matters more easily.

Quote from: Jay on March 15, 2016, 08:22 PM NHFT

Quote from: MaineShark on March 15, 2016, 05:39 PM NHFTThat said, there are injustices taking place every day, and that seems like a very poor choice of which one to champion.

You're correct, and that's why it's a tiny tiny percentage of the topics discussed on FTL/Free Keene. Perhaps folks just get upset about and remember the prurient matters more easily.

Tiny overall, but with three posts almost immediately, from what I can see, that's a relatively-large percentage of the recent posts.  If we look at just Ian's posts for March, there are eleven so far, and three are on this topic.

The public does not have a long attention span.  This is what I mean about communicating.  You're quite correct that, objectively speaking, this is only a small fraction of what's on Free Keene.  But that's not what's communicated to the public, who react subjectively, not objectively.  Subjectively, it appears to John Q. Public that this is all that's being discussed.

Folks absolutely do "get upset about and remember the prurient matters more easily."  You're 100% correct, there.  Anything the public views as prurient will appear several times bigger than other topics.  And when you communicate with the public, you need to recall that and adjust for it, in order to communicate effectively.

I'm certainly not supporting the idea that Ian should be kicked out of the FSP for communicating poorly.  That's ridiculous.  If we're going to start witch-hunting, there are quite a few folks who are far, far more deserving of being removed.  And the invective from a number of folks is nothing approaching reasonable.

But the concerns that some folks (eg, Tom Sawyer) have raised in a reasonable manner are quite legitimate and deserving of consideration.

To use another example, a number of other recent articles on Free Keene deal with HB1525, the "nipple bill."  The supporters of that sexist nonsense ended up looking like the lunatics they are, because the opponents communicated effectively.  If the opponents had decided to start stripping down in the middle of the hearing, the committee members would not have said, "well, that's not illegal, so they have every right to do so."  No, they'd have said, "gee, I was thinking that the supporters were nuts when they said that women would be running around topless in places where men are not likely to be found topless, but I see now that these women don't want to be treated the same as men, at all!"

If they'd voted to pass that nonsense, in-your-face civil disobedience would have been entirely appropriate and would have stood a chance of winning public support.  But if they'd staged a protest against something which wasn't even the law, they'd have shot their cause in the foot.  Instead, they stuck to their points, and the bill was shot down unanimously.

As a result, they are free to exercise their rights, and they have wide public support in doing so, because they kept their message clear and simple enough to be understood.

I keep hitting a wall in progressing forward, and that involves deshaming sex. Which is a big fuckin' wall.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 15, 2016, 06:36 PM NHFT

Quote from: Free libertarian on March 15, 2016, 08:36 AM NHFT

Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 14, 2016, 04:52 PM NHFT
The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.

I like that you used the word "sanctimonious" .  I think it oughta get more use.

So my dangs aren't good enough for you anymore???

Ya "sanctimonious" bastard!

Hey!   Now my heads gonna be full of  that Roger Miller song that played a lot when we were kids.   "dang me, dang me, take a rope and hang me..." 

Quote from: Jay on March 15, 2016, 10:10 PM NHFTI keep hitting a wall in progressing forward, and that involves deshaming sex. Which is a big fuckin' wall.

Try climbing, looking for a way around, or for a door, perhaps?  If you just keep bashing into the wall, you're likely to end up sore, and the wall is likely to remain unscathed.

And if you find someone adding bricks, locking doors, etc., it might be a good idea to ask him to stop.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 15, 2016, 06:36 PM NHFT

Quote from: Free libertarian on March 15, 2016, 08:36 AM NHFT

Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 14, 2016, 04:52 PM NHFT
The petition is sanctimonious bullshit.

I have named it so.

I like that you used the word "sanctimonious" .  I think it oughta get more use.

So my dangs aren't good enough for you anymore???

Ya "sanctimonious" bastard!

Dang!  My word isn't out there a day people are steal'n the shit.

Quote from: MaineShark on March 15, 2016, 10:20 PM NHFT

Quote from: Jay on March 15, 2016, 10:10 PM NHFTI keep hitting a wall in progressing forward, and that involves deshaming sex. Which is a big fuckin' wall.

Try climbing, looking for a way around, or for a door, perhaps?  If you just keep bashing into the wall, you're likely to end up sore, and the wall is likely to remain unscathed.

And if you find someone adding bricks, locking doors, etc., it might be a good idea to ask him to stop.

9_9

Might as well break up before you get dumped, I suppose:

http://freekeene.com/2016/03/16/nh-based-talk-show-free-talk-live-releases-free-state-project-from-broadcast-agreement/

What was the Broadcast Agreement?

Quote from: blackie on March 16, 2016, 06:29 PM NHFT
What was the Broadcast Agreement?

From what I know, LRN ran FSP radio ads for free and provided live audio broadcast services for Liberty Forum/Porcfest at no charge. The only compensation LRN got for anything was a hotel room provided gratis during those events.

Quote from: Jay on March 16, 2016, 10:00 PM NHFT

Quote from: blackie on March 16, 2016, 06:29 PM NHFT
What was the Broadcast Agreement?

From what I know, LRN ran FSP radio ads for free and provided live audio broadcast services for Liberty Forum/Porcfest at no charge. The only compensation LRN got for anything was a hotel room provided gratis during those events.

Promotion was probably the best part of the deal.

(http://arafwchnawr.com/images/FTL-FSP.jpg)

It is now one less conflict of interest that Ian has. He can run his radio show as he wishes.

gotta agree with you guys .... especially the rascals from winchester, the maine coast, and graffy's lair in Grafton

It is funny watching how the FSP does stuff. They just got a new president and I guess us members don't get to vote on that. :)

Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 17, 2016, 09:39 AM NHFT
It is funny watching how the FSP does stuff. They just got a new president and I guess us members don't get to vote on that. :)

We never have. And when it's been pointed out, we get reminded that the FSP doesn't have members.

https://freestateproject.org/blogs/free-state-project-statement-regarding-ian-freeman-and-free-talk-live

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 04:11 PM NHFT
https://freestateproject.org/blogs/free-state-project-statement-regarding-ian-freeman-and-free-talk-live

QuoteFurthermore, Ian Freeman is no longer invited to attend FSP-hosted events, including PorcFest and Liberty Forum.

I don't agree with this part. Unless there is behavior behind the scenes that I am unaware of.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 17, 2016, 04:26 PM NHFT
I don't agree with this part. Unless there is behavior behind the scenes that I am unaware of.

If there was, it would have been used in the "campaign".

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 17, 2016, 04:26 PM NHFT

QuoteFurthermore, Ian Freeman is no longer invited to attend FSP-hosted events, including PorcFest and Liberty Forum.

I don't agree with this part. Unless there is behavior behind the scenes that I am unaware of.

I guess I'm finding that unclear.  Are they trying to say that he's banned, but passive-aggressively failing to actually use that word?  Or are they literally just saying that he will no longer be personally invited (since it sounds like they've previously issued actual invitations)?  "You can't come" and "you can come on your own, but we'll no longer single you out to request your presence" are two different things.

Quote from: MaineShark on March 17, 2016, 04:39 PM NHFT

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 17, 2016, 04:26 PM NHFT

QuoteFurthermore, Ian Freeman is no longer invited to attend FSP-hosted events, including PorcFest and Liberty Forum.

I don't agree with this part. Unless there is behavior behind the scenes that I am unaware of.

I guess I'm finding that unclear.  Are they trying to say that he's banned, but passive-aggressively failing to actually use that word?  Or are they literally just saying that he will no longer be personally invited (since it sounds like they've previously issued actual invitations)?  "You can't come" and "you can come on your own, but we'll no longer single you out to request your presence" are two different things.

They "disinvited" Cantwell, Curtis, Zack Bass, and Mikkelson.  Of course it's a passive aggressive way to say banned...

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 04:47 PM NHFTThey "disinvited" Cantwell, Curtis, Zack Bass, and Mikkelson.  Of course it's a passive aggressive way to say banned...

Oh, I thought they were explicitly banned.

Do they even have the authority to ban Ian?  Cantwell, for example, violated specific rules against promoting violence, so the Board had the authority to take action.  Is there some actual rule that Ian broke?

Quote from: MaineShark on March 17, 2016, 05:03 PM NHFT

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 04:47 PM NHFTThey "disinvited" Cantwell, Curtis, Zack Bass, and Mikkelson.  Of course it's a passive aggressive way to say banned...

Oh, I thought they were explicitly banned.

Do they even have the authority to ban Ian?  Cantwell, for example, violated specific rules against promoting violence, so the Board had the authority to take action.  Is there some actual rule that Ian broke?

Looks like they don't need a reason, just a vote:

"Policy and Procedure for Removing Participants (passed 7/11/04)

Participants may be removed for promoting violence, racial hatred, or bigotry. Participants who are deemed detrimental to the accomplishment of the Free State Project's goals may also be removed. A committee consisting of all of the board members plus the President and Vice President shall consider all cases of participant removal. Participants shall be removed only upon an affirmative vote of five members of this committee."

https://freestateproject.org/about/organization/policies

zack bass was removed before this policy was in place. It is the reason the came up with the policy.

Cantwell was also removed as participant, and is unwelcome at fsp events.

Ian has just been uninvited to FSP events. Or am I missing something?

Quote from: MaineShark on March 17, 2016, 05:03 PM NHFT

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 04:47 PM NHFTThey "disinvited" Cantwell, Curtis, Zack Bass, and Mikkelson.  Of course it's a passive aggressive way to say banned...

Oh, I thought they were explicitly banned.

Do they even have the authority to ban Ian?  Cantwell, for example, violated specific rules against promoting violence, so the Board had the authority to take action.  Is there some actual rule that Ian broke?

They were banned (at least Cantwell, Bass, and Mikkelson... not sure about Curtis, or even who that is).

Ian and his network have been "invited", because in the past they provided broadcasting at no charge. Now he's not invited. That is not the same as "banned", at all.

He can buy a ticket, but I don't believe he'll be extended any courtesies such as free space for broadcasting, hosting his show, and conducting interviews.

Quote from: KBCraig on March 17, 2016, 05:12 PM NHFTThey were banned (at least Cantwell, Bass, and Mikkelson... not sure about Curtis, or even who that is).

Ian and his network have been "invited", because in the past they provided broadcasting at no charge. Now he's not invited. That is not the same as "banned", at all.

He can buy a ticket, but I don't believe he'll be extended any courtesies such as free space for broadcasting, hosting his show, and conducting interviews.

Okay, that's what I thought it sounded like, but others seemed to think it was a ban.

"Dear Chris, The FSP Board met last night to discuss your situation and what to do. Our decision is stated below, which includes our reasoning. Whereas Chris Cantwell has made the following public statements, been offered the opportunity to retract, and has refused to do so: "It's a terribly unpopular thing to say, but the answer, at some point, is to kill government agents," and "any level of force necessary for anyone to stop any government agent from furthering said coercion [tax collection in the context of funding the salaries of all government employees] is morally justifiable..."  Whereas the FSP Board believes this view exceeds the right of self-defense Whereas the Policy and Procedure for Removing Participants (passed 7/11/04) states: Participants may be removed for promoting violence, racial hatred, or bigotry. Participants who are deemed detrimental to the accomplishment of the Free State Project's goals may also be removed. Therefore, according to the Policy and Procedure for Removing Participants, the FSP Board removes Chris Cantwell as a participant and declares him unwelcome to attend FSP-organized events.   In peace and liberty, Jody for the FSP Board"

If unwelcome/not invited doesn't mean "banned", then why did they have a security guard checking cars that one year at PF to make sure that Cantwell didn't get in?

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 05:31 PM NHFTIf unwelcome/not invited doesn't mean "banned", then why did they have a security guard checking cars that one year at PF to make sure that Cantwell didn't get in?

"Unwelcome" and "not longer invited" are two different things.

"Unwelcome" is definitely a ban.

"No longer invited" may mean literally that - no longer receiving a personalized invitation.  Or it could be a passive-aggressive way to say someone's banned without actually saying it.

"You are unwelcome" is definitely a ban, without question.

Quote from: MaineShark on March 17, 2016, 05:39 PM NHFT

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 05:31 PM NHFTIf unwelcome/not invited doesn't mean "banned", then why did they have a security guard checking cars that one year at PF to make sure that Cantwell didn't get in?

"Unwelcome" and "not longer invited" are two different things.

"Unwelcome" is definitely a ban.

"No longer invited" may mean literally that - no longer receiving a personalized invitation.  Or it could be a passive-aggressive way to say someone's banned without actually saying it.

"You are unwelcome" is definitely a ban, without question.

I'm just sayin' that I'd bet $20 that if Ian showed up with a ticket, he'd be asked to leave.

It has been confirmed that he is prohibited from attending FSP events, period.

http://freekeene.com/2016/03/17/im-no-longer-a-free-stater-but-you-should-go-to-porcfest-and-definitely-move-to-nh-if-you-love-liberty/

that is surprising .... there will be cops trolling, undercover feds, but not Ian .... kinda lame

Quote from: KBCraig on March 17, 2016, 11:03 AM NHFT

Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 17, 2016, 09:39 AM NHFT
It is funny watching how the FSP does stuff. They just got a new president and I guess us members don't get to vote on that. :)

We never have. And when it's been pointed out, we get reminded that the FSP doesn't have members.

remember when one of those guys told us we were customers ... not members, shareholders, or really stakeholders of any kind.
the funny thing for me is when I signed up for the FSP was around the time we voted for the state ... I guess that is the last time we decided anything publicly.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 17, 2016, 04:26 PM NHFT

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 04:11 PM NHFT
https://freestateproject.org/blogs/free-state-project-statement-regarding-ian-freeman-and-free-talk-live

QuoteFurthermore, Ian Freeman is no longer invited to attend FSP-hosted events, including PorcFest and Liberty Forum.

I don't agree with this part. Unless there is behavior behind the scenes that I am unaware of.

that is strange

I almost got voted out of the FSP ... the vote was 4-3, along gender lines, and I don't even know what I was doing at the time that made them decide to vote on getting rid of me.
As Lloyd used to say "what are they going to do ... have Amanda come up from Mass and kick you out of the state?"

Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 17, 2016, 09:05 PM NHFT

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 17, 2016, 04:26 PM NHFT

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 04:11 PM NHFT
https://freestateproject.org/blogs/free-state-project-statement-regarding-ian-freeman-and-free-talk-live

QuoteFurthermore, Ian Freeman is no longer invited to attend FSP-hosted events, including PorcFest and Liberty Forum.

I don't agree with this part. Unless there is behavior behind the scenes that I am unaware of.

that is strange

I almost got voted out of the FSP ... the vote was 4-3, along gender lines, and I don't even know what I was doing at the time that made them decide to vote on getting rid of me.
As Lloyd used to say "what are they going to do ... have Amanda come up from Mass and kick you out of the state?"

First time I heard about you almost being excommunicated. Ahh, voting, in any form...lol...

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 09:24 PM NHFT

Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 17, 2016, 09:05 PM NHFT

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 17, 2016, 04:26 PM NHFT

Quote from: Jay on March 17, 2016, 04:11 PM NHFT
https://freestateproject.org/blogs/free-state-project-statement-regarding-ian-freeman-and-free-talk-live

QuoteFurthermore, Ian Freeman is no longer invited to attend FSP-hosted events, including PorcFest and Liberty Forum.

I don't agree with this part. Unless there is behavior behind the scenes that I am unaware of.

that is strange

I almost got voted out of the FSP ... the vote was 4-3, along gender lines, and I don't even know what I was doing at the time that made them decide to vote on getting rid of me.
As Lloyd used to say "what are they going to do ... have Amanda come up from Mass and kick you out of the state?"

First time I heard about you almost being excommunicated. Ahh, voting, in any form...lol...

Good times.  ;D

I bet they are wishing that Russell's brand of crazy was the only kind they had to deal with.

I have to say that making a paper airplane in Fed Court sure got Denis all worked up. I thought "Oh good, someone thought to take notes... that might be useful." Little did I realize he was taking notes to tattle on Russell.

People who think of themselves as passionate radicals must reject those who make them look like tepid supporters of the status quo. For the sake of their self-identity, they need to see us as abnormal. 

Did Ian get kicked off of all the FSP facebook groups?

He exited on his own.

I can live without the drama, so I've left too. Maybe I'll be branded as one of his worshippers.

Quote from: MikeforLiberty on March 18, 2016, 12:15 PM NHFT
He exited on his own.

I can live without the drama, so I've left too. Maybe I'll be branded as one of his worshippers.

Ian has either created or egged on 90% of the drama in Porc World.

Quote from: MikeforLiberty on March 18, 2016, 12:15 PM NHFT

Quote from: blackie on March 18, 2016, 10:57 AM NHFT
Did Ian get kicked off of all the FSP facebook groups?

He exited on his own.

Apparently not, since he just posted on the Porcupines group, advertising NH Hemp Fest.

I left Porcupines long ago amidst the CC drama. One might get the impression that all the statist have been eliminated and we need to find new targets.