Joël Valenzuela wrote a good piece over on his blog http://thedesertlynx.com
Boulevard of Broken Porcs (http://thedesertlynx.com/boulevard-of-broken-porcs/)
Quote...several people (I hesitate to say many) have lost their minds over Mr. Freeman's on-paper departure, declaring the movement dead, the FSP a tyranny, and Ian a martyr bleeding out on his cross so that the sins of Keene may be forgiven.
What a train wreck some seem to want to turn this into.
Here the movement is at it's most significant milestone so far, 20k achieved. Yet there is a malignancy that could grow to do real damage to all our efforts. It's not like there aren't plenty of positive directions to put our attention.
Let's not cut off our nose to spite our face here...
I've seen it happen before in other organizations "Snatching defeat from the jaws of victory."
So many of those declaring the FSP "dead" have never even heard of Lauren Canario or Mike Fisher. Most are barely aware of the Kannings, and Dave Ridley is just an anachronistic curiosity to them.
Those who are boycotting PorcFest because "it will never be the same!", have no idea that it wasn't always an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex.
I'm not mad at them, just curious why they're so angry at those of us who don't really want to socialize with them.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 22, 2016, 01:18 PM NHFT
What a train wreck some seem to want to turn this into.
Yes... exactly.
Quote from: KBCraig on March 22, 2016, 02:08 PM NHFT
So many of those declaring the FSP "dead" have never even heard of Lauren Canario or Mike Fisher. Most are barely aware of the Kannings, and Dave Ridley is just an anachronistic curiosity to them.
Those who are boycotting PorcFest because "it will never be the same!", have no idea that it wasn't always an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex.
I'm not mad at them, just curious why they're so angry at those of us who .
If Porcfest is "an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex" and you "don't really want to socialize with them" why did you go?
......and your assessment of Porcfest is completely different than anything I've seen there.
Lots of people have just had their reality shattered...that libertarians can be just as fucked up in the head as statists, whatever side you want to put that label on. How can that not result in at least a temporary mess?
I good friend that has been involved in libertarian efforts since the late 60's once told me, in response to wondering why the LP didn't run the same presidential candidate in subsequent elections. He said that the cause should be bigger than one person, not become a cult of personality. His logic was that one person might fail the movement and discredit it. As it turned out with Harry Browne, whose controversial second campaign seemed to have badly damaged the LP.
Thought provoking article. Thanks for posting it here, Tom Sawyer.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 22, 2016, 04:45 PM NHFT
He said that the cause should be bigger than one person, not become a cult of personality.
Are "we" aiming for collectively empowered freedom, or self-empowerment?
I found this article by Menno Troyer last week. Made me view the situation in a new light:
https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/09/10/beware-of-the-false-paths-to-freedom.html
Quote from: Jay on March 22, 2016, 05:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 22, 2016, 04:45 PM NHFT
He said that the cause should be bigger than one person, not become a cult of personality.
Are "we" aiming for collectively empowered freedom, or self-empowerment?
I found this article by Menno Troyer last week. Made me view the situation in a new light:
https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/09/10/beware-of-the-false-paths-to-freedom.html
That is a good article.
Quote from: Jay on March 22, 2016, 05:11 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 22, 2016, 04:45 PM NHFT
He said that the cause should be bigger than one person, not become a cult of personality.
Are "we" aiming for collectively empowered freedom, or self-empowerment?
I found this article by Menno Troyer last week. Made me view the situation in a new light:
https://www.dollarvigilante.com/blog/2012/09/10/beware-of-the-false-paths-to-freedom.html
Not sure that I agree with much of what he said.
The problem is if people voluntarily decide to work together for their common goals vs being compelled to.
Most people that focus
so much on their individualism are often
incapable of playing on a team. It's not that they have necessarily found a better path. Most of the best things in this life involve bending some for the common goals that you share. Everything from marriage to running a business.
I'm pretty sure that the failure in this has to do the restriction of Ian's speech. He was advocating something that a few people, rightfully or wrongful, find extraordinarily offensive.
...but that's it. If you want to restrict speech, you have absolutely no good reason to be anywhere near a Liberty Movement.
The FSP hasn't changed, it has always been like that. Racists are a good example. Libertarian racists aren't allowed.
I agree.
I can't tell a racist until he starts sounding stupid.
I don't want to be around that guy, but let him talk so I can know the people around him.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 22, 2016, 05:49 PM NHFT
Most people that focus so much on their individualism are often incapable of playing on a team.
Good point. But I've heard many people say in da moovement (and my experience as well) that they've been frustrated in working in teams their entire lives, usually having to do most or all of the work when they get involved. Whether it's higher intelligence, laziness of others, or willingness to volunteer/not be as risk adverse. It might be hard to transition to working with others for a lot of those folks because of the past.
very good posts from all of you
It is funny how some think the sky is falling because of the usual FSP board decisions. They turned on Jim and Lauren in their hour of need (just didn't have any official way to do it). They voted 3-4 to kick me out of the FSP.
Ian is not saying the world is ending .... so why do some of his supporters think so?
The government is going to continue to put a lot of pressure on us. We need to help each other in those though times.
Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 22, 2016, 02:22 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on March 22, 2016, 02:08 PM NHFT
So many of those declaring the FSP "dead" have never even heard of Lauren Canario or Mike Fisher. Most are barely aware of the Kannings, and Dave Ridley is just an anachronistic curiosity to them.
Those who are boycotting PorcFest because "it will never be the same!", have no idea that it wasn't always an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex.
I'm not mad at them, just curious why they're so angry at those of us who .
If Porcfest is "an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex" and you "don't really want to socialize with them" why did you go?
......and your assessment of Porcfest is completely different than anything I've seen there.
One reason I went was to see people I really like and admire but haven't had much chance to socialize with over the years, like some folks named Jim and Lauren. Another was to meet in person for the first time others whom I've only gotten to know through social media.
No, I haven't been there around the clock for every PF, but it seems there are plenty of people who think that PF is supposed to be an "orgiastic festival of drugs and sex", and anyone who disagrees is a statist prude. What happens in the privacy of one's own tent is private, but I've seen a complaint of broad daylight blowjobs in full view of everyone.
I don't even care about toplessness or the "loincloth guy", or even if everyone is nude, but when a major part of the PF mission is showing how NH is a great place to live and raise a family, folks might want to dial that back a notch or two. It's not Burning Man New England.
I bought tickets this year to celebrate reaching the 20k milestone. I still think the pricing plan is all wrong, with no reasonably priced day pass tickets for locals, or those who can only visit for a day or two. Or an hour or two a day, like me (I'll be working, so I'll drop in as I can).
But I do look forward to seeing the Winchester folks again this year, and others. If those who didn't even know the FSP existed three years ago decide to boycott, I won't miss seeing them at all.
Peace. :)
Quote from: KBCraig on March 22, 2016, 10:01 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 22, 2016, 02:22 PM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on March 22, 2016, 02:08 PM NHFT
So many of those declaring the FSP "dead" have never even heard of Lauren Canario or Mike Fisher. Most are barely aware of the Kannings, and Dave Ridley is just an anachronistic curiosity to them.
Those who are boycotting PorcFest because "it will never be the same!", have no idea that it wasn't always an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex.
I'm not mad at them, just curious why they're so angry at those of us who .
If Porcfest is "an orgiastic festival of drugs and sex" and you "don't really want to socialize with them" why did you go?
......and your assessment of Porcfest is completely different than anything I've seen there.
One reason I went was to see people I really like and admire but haven't had much chance to socialize with over the years, like some folks named Jim and Lauren. Another was to meet in person for the first time others whom I've only gotten to know through social media.
No, I haven't been there around the clock for every PF, but it seems there are plenty of people who think that PF is supposed to be an "orgiastic festival of drugs and sex", and anyone who disagrees is a statist prude. What happens in the privacy of one's own tent is private, but I've seen a complaint of broad daylight blowjobs in full view of everyone.
I don't even care about toplessness or the "loincloth guy", or even if everyone is nude, but when a major part of the PF mission is showing how NH is a great place to live and raise a family, folks might want to dial that back a notch or two. It's not Burning Man New England.
I bought tickets this year to celebrate reaching the 20k milestone. I still think the pricing plan is all wrong, with no reasonably priced day pass tickets for locals, or those who can only visit for a day or two. Or an hour or two a day, like me (I'll be working, so I'll drop in as I can).
But I do look forward to seeing the Winchester folks again this year, and others. If those who didn't even know the FSP existed three years ago decide to boycott, I won't miss seeing them at all.
Peace. :)
I'm not going to Porcfest.
The real reason hurts, like someone I couldn't do without had died. I have told two people close to me what has happened and no one else cares.... so fuck it, I've wasted 11 years of my life.
I signed on to the Free State Project and was dragged out here early.
No one could no better than the readers of the NHFREE what I've been through or what I have endured with my wife and my friends.
Lauren was so happy when the FSP reached 20,000 that she wanted to have a big party at Porcfest. It's the only time she's wanted to have a party, ever. This was a pinnacle event and I was surprised at how few people showed up. I was having a great time and we went to the Snowden event. But then there was the list of FSP heroes. Now.... I'm nobodies hero, but the list went on to say, "The following is the names of community stalwarts who have brought us to this moment...". I thought of how the FSP could now be a big success and that people would look back in history and see the names of people who pioneered and sacrificed for liberty..... on that list... not Jim Johnson, not Lauren Canario's husband, not even that guy who filmed his wife being hauled away by cops in New London.
Now I feel there are a lot of things I should have done besides come to New Hampshire.
I'm supposed to be a man, which means my feels don't mean shit.... but that Ian thing put a final nail in it.
:-[
Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 22, 2016, 11:33 PM NHFT
I'm not going to Porcfest.
The real reason hurts, like someone I couldn't do without had died. I have told two people close to me what has happened and no one else cares.... so fuck it, I've wasted 11 years of my life.
I signed on to the Free State Project and was dragged out here early.
No one could no better than the readers of the NHFREE what I've been through or what I have endured with my wife and my friends.
Lauren was so happy when the FSP reached 20,000 that she wanted to have a big party at Porcfest. It's the only time she's wanted to have a party, ever. This was a pinnacle event and I was surprised at how few people showed up. I was having a great time and we went to the Snowden event. But then there was the list of FSP heroes. Now.... I'm nobodies hero, but the list went on to say, "The following is the names of community stalwarts who have brought us to this moment...". I thought of how the FSP could now be a big success and that people would look back in history and see the names of people who pioneered and sacrificed for liberty..... on that list... not Jim Johnson, not Lauren Canario's husband, not even that guy who filmed his wife being hauled away by cops in New London.
Now I feel there are a lot of things I should have done besides come to New Hampshire.
I'm supposed to be a man, which means my feels don't mean shit.... but that Ian thing put a final nail in it.
For what it's worth, I for one am very happy you came to New Hampshire. Of all the people not going to PorcFest, seeing your name makes me the saddest. My family and I consider you to be a very important part of our lives, like family...but family we want to spend time with. :) I know others feel the same about you. People don't name their babies after someone who isn't very important to them. I think your presence around here has made a lot of peoples lives better...maybe we all need to let you know that more often.
On a different thought, as for Menno's article, I see what he is trying to say. But personally, I don't want a society filled with individuals focusing only on themselves. I like the idea of the village, but I want a village composed of people of my choosing (people like Jim Johnson). And sometimes, living in a village requires you to think of others so as not to be a dick. I get tired of rudeness and anti-social behaviour being cloaked in the "I'm an individual and you can't tell me what to do." Maybe I can't tell them what to do, but I sure as shit can decide I don't want to be around them. My enemy's enemy is my friend is a stupid and dangerous way of looking at life.
This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials. Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire. In my personal observation, a lot of the people talking so stridently about individual versus collective are single men with no family ties. Good for them, but having a husband and child means my needs don't always come first. Hell, having a cat and dog means my needs don't always come first. But that's okay. It's just the normal give and take of healthy relationships with
others.
By the power vested by me in myself - I hereby nominate, vote and affirm Jim Johnson for Hero Status.
His list of personal accomplishments and helping others is too numerous to mention. Jim's a little bit older than me and even know it alls like me sometimes need somebody to look up to. Plus he's taller too, so it's not like I could look down anyway.
Jim, lots of people love you, I've found you to be one of the most inspiring and helpful guys there is.
As far as individuals and how we fit into groups etc. I want people to be able to chose their interactions on a peaceful and voluntary basis. For some people that will mean doing different things, I'm okay with that.
Quote from: Becky Thatcher on March 23, 2016, 07:46 AM NHFT
This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials. Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.
The lies people tell themselves...
Quote from: Jay on March 23, 2016, 09:05 AM NHFT
Quote from: Becky Thatcher on March 23, 2016, 07:46 AM NHFT
This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials. Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.
The lies people tell themselves...
It's possible that the FSP board over-reached and the reaction from many are both wrongheaded.
I see the spin that is being applied by some that have no idea what is going on.
I have no idea if Ian is guilty of downloading kiddie porn. I've had my differences with Ian's approach, but find no joy in his downfall.
Quote from: Jay on March 23, 2016, 11:05 AM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 23, 2016, 10:00 AM NHFT
It's possible that the FSP board over-reached...
lol
Do you only hear the parts that confirm what you already believe? The possible was referring to both things in that statement can be possible.
Earlier I said I thought that the board over did it with the banning part. The severing of the business relationship was probably enough.
I'm sorry that the thing that brought you to the movement is in peril. I wanted to be free before Ian was born. I got involved before I had even heard of FTL. I moved to this region 20 years ago. I've been calling myself a libertarian since 1978... I was very freedom oriented from as far back as I have a memory.
Is it possible that Ian has caused most of his own troubles?
I've got a real compulsion for spotting bias. Though I may not always be right, sometimes it's glaringly obvious.
Ian did not bring me to the movement, in fact I voted in the FSP state selection thing in 2003.
Just because I can smell bullshit when it's cooking doesn't mean I think he is Jesus 2.0.
"If you ain't with us, you are a kid fucker apologist." Yes, that is the bias and sentiment I see running through those who take a stance on that particular side of things.
The people that are calling out the liars for continuing to sling around their libel are on a witch hunt? Yes, that is pretty damn funny.
"anyone who is able to BAN someone from an experiment in freedom ...is a tyrant, and their experiment is just a new little baby government saying "just the tip""
Quote from: Jay on March 23, 2016, 09:05 AM NHFT
Quote from: Becky Thatcher on March 23, 2016, 07:46 AM NHFT
This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials. Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.
The lies people tell themselves...
So now you're calling someone you've never met and know nothing about a liar. Great way to make friends and build a civil society.
Quote from: Becky Thatcher on March 23, 2016, 01:09 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jay on March 23, 2016, 09:05 AM NHFT
Quote from: Becky Thatcher on March 23, 2016, 07:46 AM NHFT
This whole clusterfuck over who is going or not going to Porcfest carries a whiff of the Salem witch trials. Just point a finger and scream "he/she is a Statist" and the whole collective of "self empowered individuals" mindlessly turns and starts firing up the bonfire.
The lies people tell themselves...
So now you're calling someone you've never met and know nothing about a liar. Great way to make friends and build a civil society.
I am saying you are deluding yourself for calling the side you're referring to in your statement as the one that has the ongoing witch hunt. Way to twist my words, though it appears to be standard procedure lately.
I have no interest in making friends and building a "civil society" with people who dare accuse others of stirring up drama for exposing the liars, so you won't have to worry about me messing up that collective dream of a big metaphorical Puritanical wall keeping the unwashed out.
A lot of people became persona non grata to me within the last few weeks for being on the side of bullshit. And that list keeps expanding.
Funny how all those I've considered actual friends are on the same page, distinctly crestfallen and feeling like a part of them is gone.
Sorry for my assumption of your path. I just knew you came to my attention via the FTL BBS.
There are more than two positions someone can take and more than one position can be in error.
The feds can be responsible for doing evil things and Ian could be responsible for downloading the content. Or many other possibilities.
People maybe shouldn't running around stirring the pot publicly... i.e. in places new participants will perhaps be exposed to the dirty laundry. I mean before any real info was really available people were screaming that the FSP board turned them in. Are those people now apologizing for their jumping the gun?
I haven't been involved in the Facebook drama. The purpose of this thread was to give people a chance to air their thoughts and the title was meant to remind people that we could choose not to destroy all the good that has and will come about from this movement.
I am sorry you are so sad about the FSP Jim.
On the brighter side, they have not thrown you under the bus this week like they did when Lauren was in jail.
I think those guys will always do crazy stuff.
Maybe that list is just missing all sorts of people.
Since you have been able to stay there Jim, you have done more than I have. But then I probably didn't make the list .... heck I was almost kicked out of the whole organization once (well at least once).
I once was part of all the conversations the FSP board has .... there is so much wordsmithing and handwringing, that it is easy for them to make mistakes.
http://www.nhfair.com/recent_submissions
I can't imagine our efforts without your great ideas and props.
I've no direct knowledge of whats going on in the FB world, so this is based upon second- and third-hand accounts.
From those accounts, it seems like there are "witch-hunters" on two sides. There are folks who want to "purify the movement" of anyone who holds controversial opinions. And there are folks who immediately interpret any suggestion of moderation as oppression (ie, they do not differentiate between, "I really would prefer if you didn't do that" and "I'm going to force you not to do that").
And then there are all the non-witch-hunters on any side who want to have rational discussions, but cannot because the witch-hunters are interfering. Those who want to discuss ways to stand up for what you believe and also not piss off the rest of the population cannot be heard over the yells of "free speech!" and "you're just trying to create your own statist system!" Those who want to discuss ways that society does not address certain issues rationally and how to change those societal opinions cannot be heard over the shouts of "if you don't condemn everything I emotionally want you to condemn, you're a predator!," et cetera.
While it does occur that an "extreme" position is the right one (eg, "slavery is always wrong"), in most cases, extreme positions are emotional rather than rational, so anyone taking an extreme position should be subject to extra scrutiny. It seems that, all too often, the opposite is happening, and the extreme positions are seen as the defaults, and any attempt to be less-than-extreme is scrutinized heavily, instead.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 23, 2016, 06:14 PM NHFT
I am sorry you are so sad about the FSP Jim.
On the brighter side, they have not thrown you under the bus this week like they did when Lauren was in jail.
I think those guys will always do crazy stuff.
Maybe that list is just missing all sorts of people.
Since you have been able to stay there Jim, you have done more than I have. But then I probably didn't make the list .... heck I was almost kicked out of the whole organization once (well at least once).
I once was part of all the conversations the FSP board has .... there is so much wordsmithing and handwringing, that it is easy for them to make mistakes.
You did make the list..... so did Kat, Lauren, and Pat K.
Mike Barskey
Lloyd
Dale Everett
Laura Edgington
Robert Constantine
Don & Cathleen
Kevin Freeheart
Bob Hull
Able Freeman
Menno Troyer
Ian Freeman
John Connell
Sandy Pierre
Sam Dodson
....a little less than 300 people.
maybe they were the ones nominated .... maybe just the memories of 3 people who whipped up a list.
Maybe list compiled by Keene PD and they are not going to acknowledge your existence until you can prove you are not me. :)
It's kind of hard to forgive Jim's whole "I want to kill these Nazis... like our forefathers killed Nazis" statement to the press. That's right I've been looking into Johnson's shady past. :o
For those that weren't around back in 2005... The FSP types that were upset with Lauren and Jim in New London. That's what got William and I mobilized. Of course William thought we going to go and break Lauren out of jail. :icon_pirat:
The kid made the front page of the newspaper.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 23, 2016, 07:04 PM NHFT
Maybe list compiled by Keene PD and they are not going to acknowledge your existence until you can prove you are not me. :)
lol
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 23, 2016, 07:04 PM NHFT
Maybe list compiled by Keene PD and they are not going to acknowledge your existence until you can prove you are not me. :)
;D 8) That's right. How could you possibly know who you are.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 23, 2016, 07:04 PM NHFT
maybe they were the ones nominated .... maybe just the memories of 3 people who whipped up a list.
Maybe list compiled by Keene PD and they are not going to acknowledge your existence until you can prove you are not me. :)
Oh, wait... I'm talking to myself.
I hate it when that happens.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 23, 2016, 07:17 PM NHFT
It's kind of hard to forgive Jim's whole "I want to kill these Nazis... like our forefathers killed Nazis" statement to the press. That's right I've been looking into Johnson's shady past. :o
For those that weren't around back in 2005... The FSP types that were upset with Lauren and Jim in New London. That's what got William and I mobilized. Of course William thought we going to go and break Lauren out of jail. :icon_pirat:
The kid made the front page of the newspaper.
....with severe prejudice.
Quote from: Jim Johnson on March 23, 2016, 09:51 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 23, 2016, 07:17 PM NHFT
It's kind of hard to forgive Jim's whole "I want to kill these Nazis... like our forefathers killed Nazis" statement to the press. That's right I've been looking into Johnson's shady past. :o
For those that weren't around back in 2005... The FSP types that were upset with Lauren and Jim in New London. That's what got William and I mobilized. Of course William thought we going to go and break Lauren out of jail. :icon_pirat:
The kid made the front page of the newspaper.
....with severe prejudice.
You have our permission to walk around mumbling random grumbles punctuated by momentary outburst of Turrette's. "Sons and daughters of whores!"
It works for me. ;D
Dang!
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 23, 2016, 06:19 PM NHFT
http://www.nhfair.com/recent_submissions
I can't imagine our efforts without your great ideas and props.
Thanks for the link to all the pictures. Brought back some memories.
jay posted that link yesterday here
tI forgot about that great site
we have lost a lot of pictures here when the wiki stopped working and my freepress website
I gots to make the news, or record it and let others archive it :)
For the folks pissed at the board of the FSP there is always FeenFest Somalia! Of course it's at Porcfest, but libertarians love semantics. ;D
I went to Rogers campground during porcfest a couple years ago. The first year Chris Cantwell was banned. All the drama around that was a turnoff to me. I didn't care one way or the other, but people couldn't shut up about it.
I wasn't impressed with Rogers as a venue. The motel was a little run down.
I didn't go back last year, and don't plan on going this year.
I went to liberty forum this year. Not a big fan of Manchester, but the Radisson is ok. No plans to do that again.
not my thang
I don't get these people that think it's a big thing not to go.
Quote from: blackie on March 29, 2016, 08:53 AM NHFT
I don't get these people that think it's a big thing not to go.
I think some people may base their happiness around a once a year festival. Of course, that leads to a lot of problems...
I'm too anti-social to care much about it. I sold food the entire time, save for an hour here and there, 4 out of the 6 years I went. There are calmer places to do drugs anyway, lol.
Me and the boy will go and camp again this year. It's a chance for him to run with the other young folks. He sleeps well, all the activity. :)
Of course we won't be able to squat at Jim and Lauren's site this time. I mean a place for our tent and coffee every morning, pretty dang good deal.
PorcFest will be the lesser for the absence of the Johnson/Canario team. No giant stick porcupines, metal sculptures or porcupine brandings. They will be missed, some of the others not so much.
I've never been to Liberty Forum. I don't think I've ever payed to go to a conference. Usually I'm payed to go or at the minimum comped for room and board.
I hope some of the folks reconsider, but life goes on either way.
and now when a thug tells me to live in Somalia, it won't require a passport
The FSP should have cut business ties, not banned. I see Ian like the tale of Icarus. He flew too high into the sun of the promise of libertopia without thinking about the blowback. When he came out openly dating Renee I was on the fence about being openly associated with the FSP or Free Keene in this town. That sealed my resolve to dissociate from what was going to become an eventual disaster of PR.
I miss the days of Keen activism being about making the gov't look like fools. Not acting like fools just to have something to film and throw up on Free Keene.
We seem to be missing some posts? I'm also missing some recent PMs.
Good to hear you chime in Puke.
Quote from: Jay on April 02, 2016, 12:03 PM NHFT
Is everyone that overcomes their fear of illogical social shame a narcissist?
He thinks he has all the answers and can do no wrong. He seems to see himself as a messiah to the masses. He seems to think he has a sort of mystical power granted to him by virtue of being morally pure--that if he lives his life as a free person, it will set the world around him free. He tunes out anyone who speaks anything that defies his mystical vision. I think he was mostly a level-headed guy at one point who was just potentially vulnerable to losing it and it started going downhill and getting extra culty when he and Sam got on board The Secret train and the Law of Attraction and all that mystical bullshit.
Do you think I'm just talking about the pedo stuff? I felt this way long before he got really obsessed with age of consent issues and started evangelizing about that.
Quote from: dalebert on April 03, 2016, 07:20 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jay on April 02, 2016, 12:03 PM NHFT
Is everyone that overcomes their fear of illogical social shame a narcissist?
He thinks he has all the answers and can do no wrong. He seems to see himself as a messiah to the masses. He seems to think he has a sort of mystical power granted to him by virtue of being morally pure--that if he lives his life as a free person, it will set the world around him free. He tunes out anyone who speaks anything that defies his mystical vision. I think he was mostly a level-headed guy at one point who was just potentially vulnerable to losing it and it started going downhill and getting extra culty when he and Sam got on board The Secret train and the Law of Attraction and all that mystical bullshit.
Do you think I'm just talking about the pedo stuff? I felt this way long before he got really obsessed with age of consent issues and started evangelizing about that.
Ian has always been weird about age of consent.
At the end of this clip you say Ian is one of the most well adjusted people you know. Ian didn't change, you did.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=tnSixDLrGlw
He gets really loud and strong defending blowing some guy when he was 10 for a video game. I think that is the crux of the biscuit.
Quote from: blackie on April 03, 2016, 09:32 PM NHFT
Ian didn't change, you did.
I won't deny that. I was drinking the Kool-Aid for a while when I lived in Keene. I got caught up in the us vs. them phenomena that tends to happen. At the time I said it, I believed it. I got to know him better over time.
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on April 04, 2016, 07:20 AM NHFT
He gets really loud and strong defending blowing some guy when he was 10 for a video game. I think that is the crux of the biscuit.
Crux of the biscuit?
...now the Frank Zappa songs are playing in my head. Great googly moogly!
Quote from: Free libertarian on April 04, 2016, 12:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on April 04, 2016, 07:20 AM NHFT
He gets really loud and strong defending blowing some guy when he was 10 for a video game. I think that is the crux of the biscuit.
Crux of the biscuit?
...now the Frank Zappa songs are playing in my head. Great googly moogly!
;D
"I injured the fur trapper."
Nice to hear the cultural connection.
Quote from: Free libertarian on April 04, 2016, 12:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: Tom Sawyer on April 04, 2016, 07:20 AM NHFT
He gets really loud and strong defending blowing some guy when he was 10 for a video game. I think that is the crux of the biscuit.
Crux of the biscuit?
...now the Frank Zappa songs are playing in my head. Great googly moogly!
St. Alphonso would be proud of me! ;D 8)
Is that a real poncho or a sears poncho ?
Who you jiving with that cosmik debris?
And of course "Watch out where the huskies go, and don't you eat that yellow snow!" Kind of appropriate with all the snow we got today. ;D