New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => General Discussion => Topic started by: Dave Ridley on June 23, 2016, 11:24 AM NHFT

Title: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on June 23, 2016, 11:24 AM NHFT
Since http://NHexit.com currently just links to a locked thread on this forum... Here is a thread for actually discussing it outside  Facebook, even though most of the discussion probably will be in Zuckerland.

What should the "organization," if you want to call it that... try to achieve between now and the end of 2016?

What would be the actual legislative or democratic process and primary hurdles related to NH withdrawing from the Union? 

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on June 23, 2016, 07:31 PM NHFT
you can claim your independence from the feds but not he zuckerpuppet
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on June 24, 2016, 07:49 AM NHFT
NHexit.com statement on the Brexit vote

If UK can do it to EU, why can't NH can do it to DC?

In 1788 New Hampshire tried to become part of a dream...a Federal system which made to her many of the same kinds of promises which the EU made to Britain.  But many New Hampshirites, like Britons, have experienced growing disillusion with the ever-bloating central government they joined.  It has become a bloodthirsty empire to which they now find themselves tightly bound. 

Faced with a more humane government at Brussels than the Washington regimes which have ruled us, British voters nevertheless chose to walk away.  How much more justified New Hampshire's departure would be...from the murderous wannabe globe-rulers in DC. 

The success of the Brexit vote offers a reminder that "unions" do not have to be "perpetual."  And our state would benefit if it were not part of something which has had a run of so many years, providing so much time for so much rot to run so deep.  In contrast with the unreachable Washington system, the New Hampshire government is generally accessible, changeable by unremarkable individuals.  It's a still-functioning representative democracy with possibly the best design of any state or national government on Earth.  To the extent that it still falls short, the blame often lies with its membership in the Union and the corrupting outside influence of Party and Federal manipulation.

Imagine a future where there were no layers of government above it, none to imprison you or your friends, none to tax you, none to impose over a million pages of law and regulation upon your actions (that is the actual Fed number)!   Achieving it would be a daunting task.   It's a Hail Mary pass in one sense...but unlike that particular play...it can partially succeed even if the ball is not caught.   Central governments treat restless regions more cautiously if they have strong independence movements.  London and Ottawa had to provide major concessions to Scotland and Quebec because of their (technically unsuccessful) separatist drives.  We need to spark that same phenomenon here in the "free state," if we want it to maintain even the limited freedoms it still has.

Dave Ridley
http://NHexit.com
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on June 24, 2016, 08:23 AM NHFT
I know that some of the delegates to the Constitutional Convention left in disgust and the thing was done without them.
For all I know the guys from NH where part of that group. :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: K neth on June 24, 2016, 04:12 PM NHFT
The New York representatives refused to take part in that coupe of '86.  Hamilton just replaced them with his stooges.  I've pointed that out to some devout and faithful statists here, asking them how that works into the mechanics their claims of presuming to rule, and only ever get blank stares.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jay on June 25, 2016, 11:17 PM NHFT
The New York representatives refused to take part in that coupe of '86.  Hamilton just replaced them with his stooges.  I've pointed that out to some devout and faithful statists here, asking them how that works into the mechanics their claims of presuming to rule, and only ever get blank stares.

lol
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on June 26, 2016, 08:43 AM NHFT
The New York representatives refused to take part in that coupe of '86.  Hamilton just replaced them with his stooges.  I've pointed that out to some devout and faithful statists here, asking them how that works into the mechanics their claims of presuming to rule, and only ever get blank stares.

Wasn't Rhode Island threatened with an economic blockade if they didn't join?  And what was this I heard about Jefferson later imposing an economic blockade on the whole country, preventing it from trading overseas?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on June 28, 2016, 07:38 PM NHFT
Media coverage: All these articles mention NHexit.

"US out of NH" protest June 26:
http://www.concordmonitor.com/Manchester-NH-Foundation-for-New-Hampshire-Independence-NHexit-secession-3029464
http://www.wmur.com/news/inspired-by-the-brexit-new-hampshire-group-seeks-secession/40255336?utm_source=Social&utm_medium=FBPAGE&utm_campaign=WMUR-TV#comments
http://nhpr.org/post/inspired-brexit-granite-state-group-pushes-nhexit
https://www.freedomsphoenix.com/News/199317-2016-06-26-nhexit-movement-gaining-steam-after-brexit.htm
https://www.reddit.com/r/Anarcho_Capitalism/comments/4q59s7/concord_monitor_nhexit_calls_for_secession/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pi_I-XU3Ztw
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iFC_uCSnwmU
http://freekeene.com/2016/06/25/first-brexit-now-nhexit/
http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20160627%2Faggregation%2F160629412%2F1007%2Fnews02

That was more or less all I could find as of June 28, although I'm probably forgetting some.  FreeTalkLive.com has discussed it about 5 times, and I called in to WCRN-AM and WKBK-AM about it.

June 29 update:  More articles have appeared about our June 26 protest:
The first one really fell into the trap!  I'm also starting to include articles that mention NHexit but not necessarily the June 26 protest.

http://wokq.com/forget-brexit-these-america-hating-seccessionists-want-the-nhexit/
http://www.bostonmagazine.com/news/blog/2016/06/28/new-hampshire-brexit/
http://triblive.com/usworld/world/10703011-74/britain-cameron-exit

http://www.f169bbs.com/bbs/news/285971-nhexit-calls-for-secession   
http://shark1053.com/tags/nhexit/

Editorial on NHexit in the Valley News: http://www.vnews.com/nhexit-3166659

WBZ apparently talked about it; I believe they're a top 3 Boston talk radio station.  From Twitter:  "Leah M. Willingham ?@LeahMWillingham  Jun 28
Catch me on @wbznewsradio's Reporters Roundup today talking about #NHexit @NHIndependence"

And from Twitter:
"42.62N @42_62N
Heard on NPR last night on drive home, NH group meet up to pick up street trash and discuss seceding from Union. @MorlockP, were you there?"

Around June 30 I think:
http://www.lfda.org/news/nhexit-campaign-calls-granite-state-secede
http://www.libertynewsdaily.com/blog-1423-%E2%80%9Cnhexit%E2%80%9D-movement-springs-up-in-new-hampshire

July 3:

Next News Now has picked it up...vid already has over a hundred comments.
 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpH-bmQgg3g

Also here is the first written use I've found of the term "NHexit."  Anyone know of anything that predates it?

'Morlock Publishing ?@MorlockP  5 Jul 2015
OK, enough about #Grexit. Let's start talking #NHexit.
1 retweet 5 likes
Reply   Retweet  1   
Like 5'

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/texit-u-s-secessionist-movements-seize-brexit-n601991
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/06/30/us/texit-british-vote-revives-a-texas-secession-dream-and-spawns-a-hashtag.html?_r=0
  - This one gives NHexit one paragraph and links to the Monitor article.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2016/jun/29/the-market-rocking-brexit-breakup/
http://www.caintv.com/first-brexit-now-five-more-plu
http://baodatviet.vn/the-gioi/tin-tuc-24h/brexit-lan-sang-my-kich-ban-3-bang-lon-doi-phan-ly-3312279/ 
  - Vietnamese newspaper apparently
http://pl.sputniknews.com/swiat/20160702/3320610/brexit-teksas-usa-texit.html
  - The old Voice of Russia I think.  A few other Russian and Chinese news sites are tracking it, but I lost track of them.


July 4

http://www.girardatlarge.com/2016/07/nh-exit/  NH radio station interviews me.  Me do badly.
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/5-us-independence-movements-inspired-by-brexit-214010  This article gives us about 4 paragraphs of fairly unique coverage.
http://www.haaretz.co.il/news/world/america/.premium-1.2996809  - Looks like a Hebrew-language article.
 Some Spanish-language and German-language articles are starting to appear.  This is really the gift that keeps on giving, although we're sure to experience a lull eventually. 
 
http://fpp.cc/after-brexit-whats-nhexit/  - coverage of July 4 NHexit protest at Keene.
http://forum.ship-of-fools.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=2;t=019850;p=1  - Lively web forum discussion

July 8 update:

https://amthirdpartyreport.com/tag/nhexit/ 

http://www.askanews.it/top-10/da-vexit-a-calexit-gli-stati-usa-che-sognano-di-lasciare-washington_711851330.htm  Rome paper says we were
   "di fronte a un edificio federale di Manchester." lol
http://www.nh1.com/news/nhexit-supporters-hoping-to-secede-from-us-gather-in-keene/   - This is the only mainstream coverage I've found so far of the July 4 protest
http://fpp.cc/after-brexit-whats-nhexit/ 

July 11
http://freest.at/NHexit
https://www.facebook.com/FSPmovers/posts/604742773028544

July 13
http://www.ocregister.com/articles/state-721979-california-government.html - Pro-secession mainstream big-press editorial! 
http://totalsurvival.net/secession-fever-sweeping-through-us-states-in-wake-of-brexit/ - seems to be a copy of one of the articles listed above
http://www.thedailysheeple.com/global-exit-secessions-and-breakups-occurring-everywhere_072016   - This article earned us a volunteer.

July 14: Went ahead and posted to about 6 active web forums about this.  Response is already lively 90 minutes into it. Will probably post to more later.... here's a list of the threads:
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=2613.msg361700#msg361700
didn't post to Reddit since we already have someone volunteered to talk us up there.

July 30

http://www.vnews.com/forum-3421804  Ridley Letter-To-Editor

http://www.fosters.com/news/20160722/hillary-execution-statement-repercussions - Statement regarding investigation of Trump supporter and connection to independence issue
http://www.girardatlarge.com/2016/07/defense-al-baldasaro/ - Kind of misnamed headline.
http://granitegrok.com/blog/2016/07/nhexit-statement-on-rep-al-baldasaros-controversial-comments

http://freekeene.com/2016/07/24/another-small-victory-for-nhexit/
http://bambuser.com/v/6380274  - Vid of Federal Protective Services issuing orders to NHexit.com activists.


As of Aug 3 2016:

http://www.lfda.org/current-trends/slight-majority-against-%E2%80%AAcall-nh-secede-us-864-participants-2282-responses?platform=hootsuite
https://www.facebook.com/LiveFreeorDieAlliance/posts/10154160582262211
http://freekeene.com/2016/07/31/secessionist-candidate-for-nh-governor-appears-on-manch-morning-radios-girard-at-large/




Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on June 28, 2016, 10:44 PM NHFT
good
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on June 29, 2016, 10:11 AM NHFT

  I like the idea of celebrating secession day this July 4th.

  This whole topic reminds me of an Unfree Grafton town deliberative session a couple of years back. 

The serfs were bickering over the right amount of taxation to impose for the "4th of July celebration fireworks".  I had to point out they were discussing how much taxation to demand to celebrate their freedom from taxation.   

Blank stares and loud cud chewing ensued.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on June 29, 2016, 05:31 PM NHFT
Did you get any video of that FL?   Also, the media coverage post from yesterday (above) is updated with new links.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on June 29, 2016, 09:23 PM NHFT
Did you get any video of that FL?   Also, the media coverage post from yesterday (above) is updated with new links.

I'm not sure, it was maybe 3 or 4  years ago.  I'll check it out though someone may have recorded  that years meeting.

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 29, 2016, 11:40 PM NHFT

  I like the idea of celebrating secession day this July 4th.

I always make a point of referring to the holiday as Independence Day. I've gotten some pretty strong reactions, positive and negative. Of the negative, the ones that I laugh at are people that counter "The 4th of July!". Yes, it's all about cookouts and fireworks on that day. Not the freedoms we are supposed to have achieved by breaking away from the most powerful empire of the day.  ;D
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on June 30, 2016, 06:03 PM NHFT
Ya, not setting up a demonstration for independence day itself was probably a fail of sorts, but I didn't really have the means to lead it efficiently myself and time remaining was a little short, so I above-all-did-no-harmed.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on June 30, 2016, 06:43 PM NHFT
Keene folks are setting up and independence day NHexit event
https://www.facebook.com/events/474765476067604/
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: blackie on June 30, 2016, 08:56 PM NHFT

  I like the idea of celebrating secession day this July 4th.

I always make a point of referring to the holiday as Independence Day. I've gotten some pretty strong reactions, positive and negative. Of the negative, the ones that I laugh at are people that counter "The 4th of July!". Yes, it's all about cookouts and fireworks on that day. Not the freedoms we are supposed to have achieved by breaking away from the most powerful empire of the day.  ;D
Independence Day has nothing to do with freedom. It was a bunch of rich guys declaring they wanted to be in charge of the local slaves instead of the king.

I don't find the "founding fathers" or their scribbles on paper very impressive.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on June 30, 2016, 09:07 PM NHFT

  I like the idea of celebrating secession day this July 4th.

I always make a point of referring to the holiday as Independence Day. I've gotten some pretty strong reactions, positive and negative. Of the negative, the ones that I laugh at are people that counter "The 4th of July!". Yes, it's all about cookouts and fireworks on that day. Not the freedoms we are supposed to have achieved by breaking away from the most powerful empire of the day.  ;D
Independence Day has nothing to do with freedom. It was a bunch of rich guys declaring they wanted to be in charge of the local slaves instead of the king.

I don't find the "founding fathers" or their scribbles on paper very impressive.

Funny I would have thought John Adams gave you a boner.  ;D
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jay on June 30, 2016, 10:06 PM NHFT
Independence Day has nothing to do with freedom. It was a bunch of rich guys declaring they wanted to be in charge of the local slaves instead of the king.

I don't find the "founding fathers" or their scribbles on paper very impressive.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ST86JM1RPl0
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on June 30, 2016, 11:22 PM NHFT
seems as good a day as anything to discuss the idea of breaking away from tyranny
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 01, 2016, 09:48 AM NHFT
blackie wrote:

"Independence Day has nothing to do with freedom. "


I guess you have a point, but even Khazakstan shouldn't be run by Moscow.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 01, 2016, 01:12 PM NHFT
Ways to help defend the physical safety of DC personnel

There are a lot of things elements inside the central government might try and do to quell independence movements around the U.S.   One that we should each have a special "planned reaction" against is the false flag attack, or suspected false flag attack:  Where a government attacks its own workers to garner sympathy.  I'm not sure which events in history were false flag attacks, but there's a strong motive to perpetrate them.  What if DC were to try and recreate the benefits it got from that terrorist (or some say government) bombing at Oklahoma City 20 years ago?  Or what if an actual American terrorist were to commit such atrocity aimed at Federals?   

The thing to do would probably be to follow the Gandhi path. Maybe present ourselves, publicly, to the nearest Federal facilities for use as human shields...help protect them from physical harm.   Or (putting a New Hampshire twist on it) actively defend the personnel inside, as Chris Rietmann did in Keene with his civilian open carry guards at army recruiting centers.   We want them to stop being Feds, but we want them to be safe.

If the private American militias had done a lot of this sort of thing in 1995, they would not have been successfully drummed out of business by establishment forces.  Americans were at their best after 9/11 when some of them showed up to defend mosques from vigilantes; John Adams was at his best when he defended British soldiers from a wannabe show trial after the misnamed Boston "massacre," and we're at our best any time we help defend our *political* enemies from *physical* harm.

The other option, in the event of a more prolonged bloody conflict between Feds and secessionists....or between Republicans and Democrats....might be hunger strikes of the type that Gandhi successfully used against pro-independence or religionist atrocities around India.  These were probably his top successes in terms of lives saved, as they really did shut down a large war after independence.

While a lot of this stuff can't *directly* defend people very well, symbolically it can be powerful enough to create a real reduction of tensions and a real bubble of increased safety around one's political enemies.
We should be ready to do things like this, fast and independently... in the event of such atrocities. And we should be thinking of still-better ideas along these lines...do you have any?

We have in front of us a peaceable path to independence; Britain/Quebec/Scotland have shown roughly how it's done.  Preserving the peace helps preserve that path, because preferably we don't want our independence coming to us the way Kosovo independence came to it (as part of a larger catastrophe).
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 01, 2016, 01:47 PM NHFT
I don't know if you can even start to intervene in all the false flags and hoax events created by this federal government
sounds like a full time job :(
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 02, 2016, 06:31 AM NHFT

 I'd consider taking a pile of "the social contracts" and stacking them in front of the Fed Bureaucrats for their protection.
 I mean there has to be hundreds of millions of those contracts floating around somewhere, it'd be a huge wall.

 I seem to have misplaced my copy, I wonder which agency I ask to get a duplicate of my contract?   
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 02, 2016, 10:00 AM NHFT
yea it is funny watching people on facebug attack guys like our friend Tony (of the great pictures) whenever he broaches the subject of leaving
social contract
social contract
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 03, 2016, 05:02 PM NHFT
Many of the defeatest arguments against an NHexit are easy to counter by just quasi-quoting their statement back to them.  All you have to do is substitute the words "Estonia" and "USSR" for "New Hampshire" and "US." 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 03, 2016, 07:39 PM NHFT
so true
this is a tried and true path .... well sometimes people get killed ... but it is nothing new
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 04, 2016, 09:57 PM NHFT
Sent this LTE to New Hampshire's Valley News today. 

"In response to ‘NHexit’ Next?,' your editorial lampooning the New Hampshire independence movement...maybe it's best to quote Brexit leader Nigel Farage:

"...when I came here seventeen years ago, and I said that I wanted to lead a campaign to get Britain to leave the European Union, you all laughed at me...you’re not laughing now, are you?"

Technically, I and hopefully all independence folk *do* want you and your staff to be able to laugh.  Your future should be cheerful prosperity, carefree of the handcuff-happy U.S. government which so badly treats journalists. The Federal system you apparently want to live under now ranks below Ghana and South Africa in press freedom. This according to Reporters Without Borders.

The trees resemble the forest:   In 2007 I heard and saw a Fed enforcer - one of the nicer ones - order a Valley News reporter not to take his picture.  They were both standing outdoors.  Google  "Homeland security cop censorship" and watch the video evidence if you don't believe me.  Meanwhile, ask yourself what would happen if one of your people tried to operate a camera *inside* a Federal building without permission.  Their domain inside this state...is like a black hole. And how would you fare if one of your people got close to a major DC scandal as New York Times reporter Judy Miller did?  She spent 12 weeks in jail for remaining silent when the central government's goons ordered her to betray a source.

Many, many days will pass before New Hampshire achieves independence from DC's web of fear and censorship.  But every moment that passes between now and *our* Independence Day... puts you (not just us) at risk of persecution by Washington.

Dave Ridley
NHexit.com"
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 04, 2016, 11:07 PM NHFT
hear hear
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 08, 2016, 02:04 AM NHFT
What: Protest against useless Hillary-sucking FBI and *for* NH independence from this shit!
Where: Outside FBI office, 15 Constitution Dr, Bedford, NH
When: 3-5pm Monday, July 11, 2016
Who: NHexit.com and friends
Why: "Hoover's children" have a double standard when it comes to the crimes of the elite. We'd like their institution to leave NH, since they're apparently more of a threat to the people than to the corrupt political class. See details below about the probably-harmless local guy they locked up.
How: 3-4pm pick up litter. 4-5pm wave signs, give speeches, etc.
Updates: http://NHexit.com/ and https://www.facebook.com/events/488294401366639/

The FBI's double standard is on worldwide display this week, in its refusal to recommend prosecution of Hillary Clinton. Her kid-glove treatment is a result of the unaccountable Breznevian status top rulers-in-waiting now enjoy in the USSA. It stands in ugly contrast to the handling of New Hampshire gunsmith Johnathon Irish. Irish was charged and sentenced to 18 months imprisonment a couple years back after an FBI investigation. According to https://www.fbi.gov/boston/press-releases/2014/new-hampshire-man-pleads-guilty-to-firearms-charges Irish "entered a guilty plea in the United States District Court for the District of New Hampshire to one count of aiding and abetting the making of a material false statement in connection with the acquisition of a firearm, and one count of lying to a federal law enforcement agent." Neither of these "crimes" sound like they hurt or endangered anyone, but because he is one of us "little people," he received the type of harsh punishment against which top officials are protected.

It's a reminder that New Hampshire does not belong in this Yugo-union. On Monday, July 11, we'll demonstrate in favor of the FBI leaving NH and taking the rotted DC government with it. Specifically, some of us are pushing for a constitutional amendment or other action at the state level which would let voters decide whether NH should remain part of this mess. Most of us would like to see NH peaceably withdraw from the U.S. in roughly the same constructive way Estonia escaped the Soviet Union. Crafting suggested wording has proven to be a challenge; however in 2009...150 members of the NH State House did vote in favor of HCR6, a resolution which laid out the conditions under which Federal rule here would be considered void.

Getting back to the demonstration (the part we can actually control): Initially we'll pick up litter in the area. That's the concrete thing we can do right now to lessen Washington's dirty impact over our innocent, so-called, "District." Then we'll hold signs and give speeches outside the Hooverites' office...have one or the other ready if you like! We ask participants not to enter the private property surrounding this office but to remain on the right-of-way. We do respectfully request that the property owner - if renting out space to these agents - terminate the lease at first legal opportunity and stop doing business with New Hampshire's corrupted overlords.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 08, 2016, 05:47 AM NHFT
Sending this statement around, marked as being from me rather than from the whole of NHexit.com.

The Dallas shooting is - or will likely become - a reminder of these things related to conflict with government:

1) Violent rebellion against long-established authority tends to strengthen that authority. 
2) It tends to directly injure bystanders, even in a case like this attack where the guerrillas and/or terrorists seemed to be targeting police.
3) Such acts deserve to be condemned.  But the suspected perpetrators should receive fair trials and humane treatment - something we can hardly take for granted anywhere in the U.S.  The fact that DPD is capturing at least some alive....the lack of any initial indication they are injuring bystanders...these are positive early signs regarding the department's disposition.  When I worked around their officers in Dallas as a news videographer for Fox 4, they usually came off more as wearied and terse functionaries rather than truly hostile enemies of the public. 
4) Dallas is a high-strung, violent place. Civil or ethnic strife forever lurks beneath the hot surface, and an enthusiastic war on drugs fans the flames.  It is far more alien to New Hampshire than, say, Quebec.  Dallas folk deserve tranquility and prosperity, plus a clear and welcoming path to migrate here should they want out as I did.   But some of us in New Hampshire wish to be separated politically from the horror and misrule which is occurring outside the state.  Events like this highlight the urgency of independence.
5) Though crime is down, the United States is increasingly showing signs of a Soviet-style collapse or a Yugoslav style civil conflict.  This attack (though more discriminate) is reminiscent of the Sarajevo Holiday Inn shootings which (depending on who you talk to) marked the start of the Bosnian Civil War.  In many ways (not all), New Hampshire needs to follow the paths of national independence that led Estonia and Slovenia away from this type of conflict and toward relative safety as their respective empires disintegrated.
6) This event may be unrelated to the Brexit and the FBI's whitewash of Clinton but marks yet another quickening of our environment.  Historic things, good and bad, are starting to happen in rapid succession.

Today the TV station where I worked is probably under lockdown, soldiering on a bit like Sarajevo's legendary, besieged Oslobodenje paper a quarter of a century before. Perhaps many old friends are casting about for methods to avoid the vicinity of windows, contemplating fitful sleep on hard floors or cubicle desks. I find myself wondering if its many conscientious allies of the downtrodden (especially reporters Shaun Rabb and Rebecca Aguilar) still work there and are inadvertently trapped inside by forces who are likely to claim the same purpose.

If and when a state of general conflict or collapse descends on "our" empire, we  each must try to steer it in the relatively constructive type direction which unfolded in the (also relatively) peaceable breakup of the Soviet Union.  We must all be mindful of the methods that have worked best historically for the purpose of discouraging attacks like Dallas.  Transparency, pocket cameras and good journalism can help and provide an alternate path for those who oppose police.  But Gandhi's practices rise to the top of any such contemplation; he was after all part of an imperial collapse.  Study his methods.  Be ready to practice them both against government worker misbehavior and in defense of their human rights.  Know that you are at your best when you defend the rights of your enemy, whoever you might think he is.

Dave Ridley
NHexit.com...
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 08, 2016, 03:00 PM NHFT
We need to decentralize NHexit activity, which is too much of a RidleyShow at this point.  Here a list of who's doing what and of the roles we need filled. We're starting to near to the point where the endeavor should be able to operate well without me. But we have a ways to go.  We could probably use backups for each role.  The volunteers named below have agreed to be publicly named or have publicly named themselves. Unless otherwise noted you can use their name to contact them through Facebook. 

These in roughly the first half of the list can be done from nearly anywhere:

) Twitter warrior:
Meanwhile, as of July 14 one of them has apparently gotten right on it and is finding/tweeting stuff the rest of us didn't know about.  Yay and thanks! 
) Issue page builder:  Create or write one or more "issue pages."  This was someone's idea who was at the June 26 protest. For example, we could have one page that details the gun freedom we'd achieve if we were independent and suddenly had only the few state gun laws instead of many Fed ones.  In some cases it may just be a case of linking to the stuff NHIndependence.org put up. 
) Delegator: Find other people who would be willing to undertake any of the above roles
) Free Range Exiter: The best thing you can do is probably the peaceful act that is self generated and fun for you.  But don't be too humble. As a rule, broadcast your accomplishments on this thread or at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056520281105982/
Distant demonstrator: If you're out of state at a point in time where there is some sort of crackdown on independence here...you can presumably just head to your nearest Fed building or U.S. embassy with a sign.  Distance might be a magnifier here.
) Inviter: Need folks to reach out to various interest groups around the state - sympathetic and unsympathetic.  Invite them to our online discussion group(s).   
) Adviceter-Meister: Tell us what other roles we should list or whatever you might think we are doing wrong.
) Live shot star -  The big Hillary July 12 Portsmouth event is a reminder how easy it would be for one person with an NHexit.com sign to stand in the background during reporter live standups. Or at any event which has live TV reporters.  If they try to stop you then you just film the process...even if they succeed you wind up with a viral video you can either upload or send to me.  It's hard for me to do this because if I'm at such an event I tend to be tied down shootinf videos.  Might be best to spare the New Hampshire stations from the "horror of having their live shot look more interesting."
) Event exploiter - going to any big event with an NHexit.com sign is potentially useful...especially if its political and you get photographed by the media or even yourself.  Anything you get that can be uploaded, we can probably publicize.  Or you can just write stuff on our discussion board about your experience. Maybe you could also set up a FaceBook event for it even if you can't go...just make sure a lot of us know about it.
) Bumper boss: Need a T-shirt design and bumper sticker design, perhaps other designs like flyers. (This idea came from one of the June 26 demonstrators). As you know we do have a good logo...
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10153513987555059&set=pcb.1070009633090380&type=3&theater 
Update: Andrew Vermiglio has at least one bumper design up and is planning more:   http://www.zazzle.com/collections/nhexit-119735898804009711

) Summarizer:  Someone who can take the most important information (usually from our FaceBook discussion group) and summarize or repost it on this forum.  That will make it more findable in the future.  FaceBook is good for immediate stuff; forums are better for long term.
) "Example historian":  Someone to look at previous successful independence movements and give us a sense what made them successful.  Or what made other movements fail...   Andy Surtees has volunteered for this and I think may have a front row seat for the Brexit.  More eyes on the issue would probably not hurt.
) Exit lister  This idea comes from Ofer Nave, who writes: "someone should compile a list of all independence movements with links to FB pages, twitters, etc, so we can do our armchair activism thing efficiently to boost the numbers."
) Talking point builder:  Someone who can find the most compelling benefits of independence, complete with stats or legislative quotes.  My current favorite is the fact that U.S. departure would technically mean flying cars are suddenly legal here... I think.  But that sounds pretty "car in the sky" so there are presumably better advantages to name.
) Website admins (for the NHexit.com wordpress site): Randy Clemens https://www.facebook.com/RandyClemensEsq
Mike Lorrey https://www.facebook.com/mike.lorrey and me obviously.
) NHIndependence dot org helpers - The "Foundation for New Hampshire Independence" tends to do booth/flyer type outreach at events and may be purchasing ads.  They also can take tax deductable donations.
Wiki Warrior:   This list does not yet include New Hampshire:  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_North_America#United_States
Can you add us?


The roles/projects below might require your physical presence in New Hampshire:

) Printmeister : Someone to buy/print some of these designs and bring them to events to hand out.  Andrew Criscione has  volunteered to print paper things efficiently, probably just small things, just look him up on Facebook.  Also I think as of August 13 there is a 60 percent chance he will have flyers or something dropped off at the Quill in Manchester for your free use. As with most of the other roles...having a backup person might help. Someone wrote:  "I think a ftl advertiser wis a printing shop that takes bitcoin. Obviously liberty friendly."
) Media contacts: (Right now there's Dave Ridley and Cameron Barr...probably enough for the moment) Update Aug 11:  Cameron may be making practice calls to Free Talk Live so he can get used to interacting with press.   
) Event organizer:(multiple people could do this independently, each deciding and hosting different events, setting the Facebook page, etc).  We have one person planning a possible event and of course "Derrick J Freeman" has already posted one.
) Liaison with Vermont independence folk  - Matthew St James has volunteered to do this. Update: Matthew has said he won't be doing it after all.  One other person has volunteered to make contact but hasn't decided which state to contact.  As with most of the other roles...having a backup person might help.
) Liaison with Texit folk - Matthew St James has volunteered to do this and has initiated contact. As with most of the other roles...having a backup person might help.  Update: Matthew has said he won't be doing this any more.
) Liaison with Republic of New Africa folks (just discovered them): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_New_Afrika
) Liaison with CAexit folk (California) Matthew St James has indicated a desire to do this. As with most of the other roles...having a backup person might help. Action taken July 13: Matthew contacted Yes California and posted about it to the FB discussion group. He's encouraging us to say hi.  I'll do that now but leave most of the rest to him.  Update: Matthew has said he won't be doing this any more. But here's a link he sent me first:  https://www.facebook.com/YesCalifornia/?ref=br_rs
) Liaison with Hawaii exit folk
) Liaison with Alaska independence folk
) Liaison with Quebec independence folk - Caleb Dyer has volunteered for this and speaks French.  He's recommended we have a second liaison who also speaks french.  I contacted someone in their movement but haven't heard back. 
) Liaison with Liberland folks.  William Cerf has volunteered for this and already had some contact.  As with most of the other roles...having a backup person might help.  Dave Ridley speaks Croatian (which means he basically speaks Bosnian and Serbian too).  Holler at him if that becomes relevant at some point. 
) Liaison with Alaska independence folk
) Liaison with Scottish independence folk
) Liaison with Catalonia independence folk
) Liaison with Brexit folk Andy Surtees has volunteered for this.
) GlobalGuy: Maybe we should have contact with other independence movements and/or Estonian/Slovak/Slovene folk since they've pulled off successful independence drives. Name your region or movement I guess and perhaps we can make you our liaison.
) Video storyteller I remember someone suggested building stories (presumably video stories) about NH independence advocates and what they experience in their day to day life that made them support independence. Do you have a YouTube channel?!!  Anyone else want to do this?
) Social media butterfly: Promote our events via social media. I don't do much Twitter or Reddit so we need you there for example.  Action ~July 14 One of our volunteers has apparently started a Reddit thingie for us; thank you!  https://www.reddit.com/user/NHExit
) GraniteGandhi:  Are you willing to openly violate a questionable Federal rule and draw attention to your concerns?  Then you're worth your weight in millibits. 
) CableCharacter: Start an NHX related cable access show in your area
) LTE writer:  If you can write letters to the editor related to NHexit, that will help....especially if they publicize our events a week in advance.  Let us know whether they do or don't publish. Ridley has written six and only one has published for certain...in the Valley News. 
) Flyer jockey: Post NHexit flyers in hi-traffic areas, maybe upload pics of it.   Two folks have expressed an interest in doing do this and have been electronically connected with our current printmeister (see above).  We could use a more or less unlimited number of flyer jockeys. The current flyer is at:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056520281105982/files/
) Radio caller: The beauty of NHexit is that it's a solution for perhaps half the problems talk jockeys discuss on their shows.  Here's a list of New England shows you can call into and get on the air:
  https://nhexit.com/86-2/
   I'm doing quite a bit of this myself "I" being Dave Ridley, most notably about 3 calls a week to Free Talk Live...they're pretty well covered.
) Speaker:  We could use someone to visit special interest groups, answer their questions, present your thoughts on how their issue would benefit from independence. This idea came from one of the June 26 demonstration participants.  Jesse Garland has expressed an interest in doing this. Could use many more.
) Solo signwaver - There are some NH intersections where you can get seen by roughly 1000 people an hour during rush hours...making event scheduling and media coverage unnecessary. You can just go any weekday.  Rte 114 and 101 in Bedford is one,  Highway 3 in Nashua is another, there are a couple overpasses well-positioned.  Can you name more?    I (Dave Ridley) will probably start going out to the one in Bedford on random days with a yellow rattlesnake flag and a sign that just says
"NHexit
dot com" 
) Costume wearer - We'd get more coverage of our demonstrations if we could promise the media we're going to have a dude in a Gandhi outfit or something.  Hottie in a Princess Leia costume or something might be better LOL.
) Costume Constructor - Can you make or buy costumes for others who want to wear them? 
) Manakin Master:   What if we could bring participants to stand in our demonstrations who are neither human nor alive!  Can you buy one? Make one?  Are there cheap inflateable options?
) Signpost-master Signs-that-stand-on-their-own  would likely also be useful.  Or devices which can hold them for us. They'd be disallowed in some places and might impede foot traffic in others.   That would be bad. Update: Rich Paul is working on building some signholding stuff.  He may need help with materials tools and makerspace as of Aug. 9...please contact him if you can help.
) "Healing Federal Hurts" - Chan Gabler at NHIndependence.org has forwarded this idea at a speech.  Imagine if we had a charity that treats Washington like an epidemic and helps provide New Hampshirites physical relief where it strikes.  Could almost be its own separate organization.

Updates: We have someone who's indicated they'll contact a mayor or two to learn their concerns about the Feds - or us!  Hadn't thought of that really...maybe I'll make it into an available role/project.

Randy Clemens from http://FSPmovers.com has underwritten a premium wordpress account for us, expiring July 2017.  That allowed us to change the setup so that the site now displays "NHexit.com" in the URL field rather than a WordPress URL.  Thanks Randy!  What else do you folks think we should do with the premium account?

William Cerf wrote:  "I am happy to be the liaison to the Middlebury Institute - https://kirkpatricksale.wordpress.com/
Middlebury Institute" 

Please keep us up to date via this thread or the NHexit.com facebook discussion group...
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056520281105982/
regarding any progress you're making.
 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 08, 2016, 10:05 PM NHFT
good list
I will think of how I can contribute
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 09, 2016, 06:23 PM NHFT
Here's a provisional flyer I slapped together which is designed to be seen from a distance. If you can't see the attachment here you can also use  https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056520281105982/files/
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 09, 2016, 06:45 PM NHFT
Sent this to a couple local NAACP leaders.   Customized versions went to Eva Castillo, the best known NH immigrant advocate, and Latinos Unidos.  I fell behind contacting the Abenaki leader as a result of a failed attempt to write part of it in Abenaki. But I'll get to him ASAP.  Theoretically the goal is to have all key ethnic organizations "equally contacted" within a two day period. 

Presumably this letter could be used as a template for contacting other neutral or skeptical groups; of course you may have suggested enhancements.

---

Mr. Lett:  I wanted to reach out to you and find out if you or any other New Hampshire NAACP folk would like to participate in - and presumably help shape - the discussion that is unfolding regarding a possible drive for New Hampshire independence.  An "NHexit."

I'm sorry to reach you at what is possibly a busy time (I heard there was to be a big demonstration at Portsmouth but wasn't sure if the NAACP is leading it). Either way I didn't want to put you on the back burner for a week, because the world is now turning fast.  Every such week the central government sends more tanklike contraptions to local law enforcement for use against the public.

During the Quebecois and Estonian independence drives of the 1990s, (and obviously in the Lincoln days) ethnic minorities and First Nations generally refused to support independence movements. The reasons were obvious and overwhelming in 1861, but in the more recent drives perhaps they didn't feel they were part of the discussion from the early stages on.  That, at least, is an element I can alter for you.  You and the rest of the folks at your organization are invited and welcome to weigh in at https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056520281105982/ and http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?topic=27757.msg361400#msg361400

NH Underground can be a little slow to process signups.  Facebook is bureaucratic and demands that we send you an invite before you can post there.  But if you let me know the appropriate Facebook name(s) I can send the invites, and you can bring all your thoughts on the matter....to this edgy table.

Yours with best wishes in these tense but hopeful times,

Dave Ridley
NHexit.com

cc:  Fred Ross
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 09, 2016, 09:01 PM NHFT
cool
you might want to change this line
" is unfolding regarding a possible drive for New Hampshire independence"
there already "is a drive", maybe not much of one, but it is not "possible" :)

Dada is thanked by baby russell
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 10, 2016, 02:24 AM NHFT
i tend to think it's not a drive till we have legislation proposed.... but maybe i'm underestimating our progress.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 10, 2016, 09:26 AM NHFT
i tend to think it's not a drive till we have legislation proposed.... but maybe i'm underestimating our progress.




 My perspective...
 More "brush fires" of all kinds need to happen.  Some "with permits" and some without.  It's all good for raising awareness of the nature of the forced association people live under.

Sure, proposing legislation is a good idea, if for no other reason than gaining some media, even if it's the boot licking kind of media that will ridicule.   

However, secession isn't about "asking" for permission to leave.  It is about declaring a disassociation with somebody else.  If the belligerent "stalks" the person asking (or demanding) for a divorce, the belligerent is being an asshole.  Nobody need be forced to associate with an asshole. 

If you ask for permission to secede, and the answer is no, does the idea die or continue ? 

If you ain't free to leave, you're a captive.  That is indisputable and self evident. 

 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 10, 2016, 01:22 PM NHFT
you might be right Dada

I totally agree SPBob.

I was wondering. When the colony of NH left the British Empire .... how did it start?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 10, 2016, 01:27 PM NHFT
If NH was to secede from the US, would it be its own country?
Where should the capital be?
The current bureaucrats in Concord might not want to go along with such a peaceful productive path. We might have to work around them. Maybe Manchester is a better spot since it is the hub of voluntary activity.
Has some other town been the capital of NH before?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 10, 2016, 01:43 PM NHFT
the link to
http://nh-liberty.info/
doesn't seem to go anywhere useful
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on July 10, 2016, 08:29 PM NHFT
the link to
http://nh-liberty.info/
doesn't seem to go anywhere useful
If you buy it, then you can configure it to send people here.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 10, 2016, 09:24 PM NHFT
took that liberty party link down since it's broken...  however i think it was working a couple weeks ago. Didn't seem very interesting anyway. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 10, 2016, 11:33 PM NHFT
How about we start up a provisional government building up to the split?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 11, 2016, 09:50 AM NHFT
 It's funny how people have been trained to assume the legitimacy of a thing can only come from an imposed involuntary government, which also purports to represent "the people".

The foregoing concept is absurd, given that no person who is purported to be represented has the right to forcibly impose on others,...so just how could "the people" as individuals delegate a right which none of them possess, to a government which alleges to be "them" ?

I hereby announce at the proper opportune time the duly elected Ambassador of Free  Grafton will agree to recognize a Free (New Hamp)shire, as long as the words above are  acknowledged as gospel or at least as a helluva truthy statement.    So, there's the first "official" government recognition of a Free Hampshire.  (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 11, 2016, 09:52 AM NHFT
How about we start up a provisional government building up to the split?

  I'm gonna need an office with a window. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 11, 2016, 09:54 AM NHFT
How about we start up a provisional government building up to the split?

  I'm gonna need an office with a window.

To heck with a window... I want a hot assistant.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 11, 2016, 09:48 PM NHFT
How about we start up a provisional government building up to the split?

  I'm gonna need an office with a window.

To heck with a window... I want a hot assistant.

Click your heels together three times Dorothy and say "there's no place like home". 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 11, 2016, 10:20 PM NHFT
Well one reason for not forming a parallel government might be the fact we already have about 6 layers of government to deal with and this could wind up just being a seventh constricting us.  Maybe it also would be too reminiscent of the chest puffing Republic of Texas faction which declared it was the government of Texas in the 90s and just came off as batshit.  Maybe others have tried this sort of thing with success however...  I guess Michael Collins' boys or maybe de Valera set up some sort of court system and provisional government during the 1920 era conflict.   No one laughs at that bunch, but their activity was followed by the Irish Civil War so I wouldn't get too pumped up about using them as a model.   The existing NH system is pretty well designed...once separated from DC it would have a chance to shine.   

Maybe I'm wrong on all this thinking.... I was wrong about the desirability of secession once.  Good discussion to have.
 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 11, 2016, 10:22 PM NHFT
Thanks to all who attended or supported today's demonstration at the FBI office...the level of turnout was unspectacular at roughly 9. Public response was unanimously positive again except for possibly one negative that I couldn't hear well enough to be sure of and also a guy who seemed like a cop requesting (reasonably) that some demonstrators shift their position a little so he could see oncoming traffic. There were probably about 35 honks and whoops during the two hour period. No reporters showed up or made contact, although I sent news releases to about 30 organizations. It turned into a sign wave on 101, that was a good idea on the part of the other demonstrators rather than me. 2000 people per hour could see the demonstration.
On the way in some office workers fell in behind me, and when Melissa yelled "NHexit!" out their car window at me... you could hear them reacting. They obviously knew right away what we were about once they heard that phrase.
I called Free Talk Live tonight about the demonstration.
What problems did you folks see with this demo, the way it was set up, and what are the solutions to those problems? One problem was that the signs didn't make it very clear who we were, most folks driving by at first probably would not have seen any NHexit.com urls. I wound up not filming much and workin on that problem instead. I made a second sign that only said
"NH
Exit Dot
Com"
It could be read from about 150 yards. I tried to spend most of the time at the tail end of the line of demonstrators about 50 yards from the nearest protester. When demonstrators spread out along a road then drivers can read each sign one at a time and maybe the last sign they see should be the URL. It's one tiny phrase that that says more than any phrase we've ever been able to use. Probably the ideal is groups of 2 at 50 yard intervals...that way you have somene to talk to but hopefully you don't block each others' signs.
There wasn't much trash to pick up; we got about 2 grocery bags full. Folks spent most of the 2 hours at the sign wave. Special thanks to Randy for providing rides to so many people and that big possibly expensive Snowden-Hillary sign.
Film at 11 lol. Or more like 11 tommorrow :)
My report is a little ridleycentric by virtue of not standing very close to the group. Any of you have reports or ideas?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jay on July 11, 2016, 11:17 PM NHFT
9 people, wow. So much for those 2000 movers.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 12, 2016, 11:28 AM NHFT
I don't want to sidetrack the nhexit.com idea if you guys think the current NH Government should just leave the US.
I am just thinking that if we wait for the state of NH to agree with us, it might take longer. In the meantime we could set up another system and start fixing things. :)
Maybe it needs to be another push and we can support each other as much as we can. :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 12, 2016, 11:32 AM NHFT
How about we start up a provisional government building up to the split?

  I'm gonna need an office with a window.
See there we go. All we need is about 100 other governments to recognize us.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 12, 2016, 02:20 PM NHFT
My thought is that there were 9 people that weren't doing this before. First step of the thousand mile journey and all that.

 8)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 12, 2016, 05:39 PM NHFT
and they looked so happy .... just the mere glimmer of independence is exciting
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 12, 2016, 09:56 PM NHFT
My thought is that there were 9 people that weren't doing this before. First step of the thousand mile journey and all that.

 8)

Thanks Tom.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 12, 2016, 11:12 PM NHFT
My thought is that there were 9 people that weren't doing this before. First step of the thousand mile journey and all that.

 8)


  Good point.  Every drop of rain helps to fill the pond or something like that.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jim Johnson on July 13, 2016, 12:14 AM NHFT
My thought is that there were 9 people that weren't doing this before. First step of the thousand mile journey and all that.

 8)


  Good point.  Every drop of rain helps to fill the pond or something like that.

If you need to fill the pond quickly, lies make baby Jesus cry.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 14, 2016, 08:38 PM NHFT
Updated the media coverage post again today...yes believe it or not there is still new media coverage of NHexit.   http://NHexit.com has a link to it.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 14, 2016, 10:51 PM NHFT
Hi, I'm Andy Surtees from Facebook.
I could do some of the "GlobalGuy" stuff. I've been involved in the Brexit campaign for years and could probably hook you up with some more prominent Brexiteers for podcasts etc at some point; although all the top ones are pretty busy now and for the next few months.
They'll also probably just say what I've been saying - that Brexit was a multi-decade campaign and NHexit is, if anything, harder.
If I were you, I'd start by building an intellectual basis for NHexit - get some people to write some pretty thick books about how the whole thing would work and why it'd be better. Let those percolate for a couple of years, start a party, get some seats in the State House (at least that part probably isn't too hard), eventually pass a motion on a NHexit referendum, then get 51% in that, and you're out. It'll be difficult and it won't happen before probably 2030 or so, but it's doable and I hope you do it :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 14, 2016, 11:58 PM NHFT
all of those are good idea
Someday will have to run on the Free State Party platform.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 15, 2016, 09:32 AM NHFT
My thought is that there were 9 people that weren't doing this before. First step of the thousand mile journey and all that.

 8)


  Good point.  Every drop of rain helps to fill the pond or something like that.

If you need to fill the pond quickly, lies make baby Jesus cry.


 Dude, he's not a baby, he's like 2,050 years old by now.  Haven't you even seen his beard?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jim Johnson on July 15, 2016, 10:11 AM NHFT
My thought is that there were 9 people that weren't doing this before. First step of the thousand mile journey and all that.

 8)


  Good point.  Every drop of rain helps to fill the pond or something like that.

If you need to fill the pond quickly, lies make baby Jesus cry.


 Dude, he's not a baby, he's like 2,050 years old by now.  Haven't you even seen his beard?

....still makes Him cry.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 15, 2016, 06:41 PM NHFT
I make a lot of talk radio calls, some mentioning NHexit if appropriate. This one you'll want to hear about. WCRN in Massachusetts has this thing called "First Amendment Friday" where they supposedly let you phone in about the subject of your choice. But on "terror days" and "dead cop days" recently they've been acting like they only want you to talk about "terror" and "dead cop." So...I called in last Friday about NHexit....but they only wanted to talk about the Dallas cop killing terrorist (even though he was more of a guerrilla fighter than a terrorist). On air they lectured listeners that it might be a problem if they called in about anything other than the Dallas "terrorist." I called in anyway to hold them to their "you get to pick the topic on Fridays" claim. and the call dropped twice...not sure if they were hanging up on me. So I called in again today a week later. I suggested they ask me questions rather than having me spew updates. For some reason that pissed them off, maybe because I wasn't talking about terrorism....and there had been some terrorism in France. This time they at least let me on. Once I got on the host lectured me that...although he had seen NHexit all over the news...we didn't have enough people at our protest...which he read about all over the news. He said I should think twice about calling in and discussing NHexit when obviously I should be talking about terrorists attacking French people.
I was happy with the call. I'll keep on him. I don't dislike the guy but he seemed out of line. With regard to recording and rebroadcasting these calls... maybe I record them, maybe I don't...but there is a chilling effect to both. Does recording run afowl of wiretap laws? Does rebroadcasting run afowl of copyright? Wish it were safer to do both and just upload the audio. For our children in a free country someday, maybe it will be!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 15, 2016, 07:05 PM NHFT
so they invent terrorist attacks to instill fear and hatred ... and if you talk about something else that is unacceptable?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 15, 2016, 09:10 PM NHFT
Can I ask about the "Motivating factors" for NHexit? The one most of you probably care about, and that I care about, is the Libertarian ideal that power should be as close to the individual as possible. Has anyone done any polling on how much that motivates people? The reason I ask is that some of the Brexit motivating factors don't seem to apply to NHexit.
People in Britain mostly see themselves as British, not European, but my guess is that most people in NH see themselves as Americans, and that it'd be difficult to change that
Britain gave far more to the EU than it got back in spending - about 3 to 1. In the case of NH, the ratio of federal taxes to federal spending seems to come out around even (although if enough of the federal spending is itself unpopular, that could still be a factor)
Huge sections of Britain felt they were being swamped with immigrants, and that they didn't like those immigrants very much, either because they were Muslim and therefore presumably hostile to British values, or Eastern European and therefore presumably willing to do unskilled labour more cheaply than unskilled working class Brits. The EU mandated free movement of these people within Europe, so at least 5-8 million of the 17 million brexiteers were against it for that reason alone. It's doesn't seem clear to me that people feel the same thing in NH, or that a post-NHexit state house would want to limit immigration very much in any case.
I'm a long way from the situation in the ground in NH, could someone closer to it explain to me how you intend to motivate people to vote for NHexit as and when a referendum takes place?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 15, 2016, 10:10 PM NHFT
thanks for checking in earlier andy... looking at your last post in a sec. 

Update on the website:  Thanks to a wordpress premium hosting donor now at least it says  http://NHexit.com in the type-here field  instead of blah wordpress yadda yadda.  We'll see how that affects other displays.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 16, 2016, 12:33 AM NHFT
Ok Dave.
The current site isn't great on mobile, there's a lot of scrolling. I'm sure that's fixable.
Also, sorry if I come across as being negative about everything. I think NHexit is possible, but it's more possible if we all recognise just how hard it is. We're not in the place Brexit was in 2015, we're in the place Scot Nats were in 1950. We'll get there, but there's a lot of work ahead of us.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 16, 2016, 12:41 AM NHFT
Andy I can't speak for all the others here let alone all other sympathizers statewide.  My own primary motivation is this: At a stroke, we would be rid of perhaps 90% of the laws and regulations which block our lives/businesses from attaining their potential and endanger us by virtue of the fact that we can't even tell when we're violating them.  Not until Fibbies come knocking.

I'm basing that number on the fact that Fed law/regulation is between 170,000 and 2,000,000 pages long...depending on how you count it.  I think NH law is "only" about 25,000 pages long.

Secondarily, but critically, the means to independence are ends in themselves.   By that I mean, taking partial steps in that direction or even getting a little publicity...benefits us even if we never achieve independence. The publicity almost certainly triggers movers and signers for the Free State Project.  It, and growth of the independence movement, create a motive for the central government to be cautious with New Hampshirites...lest it spark some sort of referendum or embarrassing legislative move.

As for how we would motivate people to vote for independence, I'm counting on Washington to most of that for us.   But there is a need to game out what kinds of shiny toys and businesses might  become immediately lawful in a New Hampshire outside the Union...   Flying cars, for instance?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 16, 2016, 01:19 AM NHFT
Keep working on it. We need a clear "If it wasn't for the Feds, we could..."
And whatever it is, 51% of people need to believe it strongly enough that they stop thinking of themselves as Americans, and start thinking of themselves as people that could do whatever the fantastic thing is, if it wasn't for those damn Americans.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 16, 2016, 08:12 AM NHFT
 One of the ironies which might be pointed out is how Maggie Hassan has "lead the fight" to ignore the feds.   She oversees the federally illegal sale of cannabis at the weeds stores NH holds a forcible monopoly on.     So, technically speaking, she's an outlaw.  (smirk).

I like to point out irony, as it can be an effective tool to gain attention. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 16, 2016, 11:47 AM NHFT
Andy I agree with all of Dave's points above.
The means of non-violently opposing evil are at odds with the US government's means of killing and jailing, so separating me and others from them makes sense.
In regards to balance of payments-bennies NH-Feds ..... sometimes NH heads the lists of "donor" states. All states are net donors to the feds. We have to be .... do you have any idea how many people live off us down in DC alone? Then you add in all the money they "lose".
If you think this is possible .... I am excited. :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 16, 2016, 11:52 AM NHFT
(http://cdn.theatlantic.com/assets/media/img/posts/2014/05/Slide2/cf89185a3.jpg)

interesting
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 16, 2016, 11:55 AM NHFT
https://wallethub.com/edu/states-most-least-dependent-on-the-federal-government/2700/
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 16, 2016, 12:11 PM NHFT
(http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/UserFiles/Image/Blog/ftsbs-large.jpg)

this one has NH at #3
http://taxfoundation.org/sites/taxfoundation.org/files/docs/sr139.pdf
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 16, 2016, 06:46 PM NHFT
in response to andy's suggestion I will probably add some sort of "talking point builder" to the list of roles that need filling.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 16, 2016, 07:47 PM NHFT
so true .... even if we have some documents to read ... many people want questions answered.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2016, 05:31 PM NHFT
What is an acceptable number of deaths of NHExit activists when the Federal government cracks down on their activities?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jim Johnson on July 17, 2016, 09:01 PM NHFT
What is an acceptable number of deaths of NHExit activists when the Federal government cracks down on their activities?

0
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2016, 09:19 PM NHFT
What is an acceptable number of deaths of NHExit activists when the Federal government cracks down on their activities?
0

Something for the freedom dream drug pushers to think about, perhaps...
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 17, 2016, 09:39 PM NHFT
Yeah, no point in trying... I'm gonna drink my life away.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Jay on July 17, 2016, 11:40 PM NHFT
Yeah, no point in trying... I'm gonna drink my life away.

Denying that violence won't happen, at the minimum initiated by the State?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 17, 2016, 11:51 PM NHFT
what? are you saying the Feds are going to put up a fight?
man I thought this was going to be easy
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: blackie on July 18, 2016, 05:28 AM NHFT
What is an acceptable number of deaths of NHExit activists when the Federal government cracks down on their activities?
It depends. Is Chris Cantwell a NHExit activists?

Jk
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 18, 2016, 09:09 AM NHFT
N H Ex it
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 18, 2016, 10:16 AM NHFT
Yeah, no point in trying... I'm gonna drink my life away.


 Every time you buy liquor in NH, Maggie Hassan kicks a puppy and rubs her hands together while laughing maniacally.  It's true!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 18, 2016, 04:15 PM NHFT
Yeah, no point in trying... I'm gonna drink my life away.


 Every time you buy liquor in NH, Maggie Hassan kicks a puppy and rubs her hands together while laughing maniacally.  It's true!

The last hard liquor I drank didn't give any money to the revenuers!
 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 18, 2016, 05:03 PM NHFT
This article I wrote for the FSP site in 2003...may be of value to any of you who are interacting with media.

Our Local Media Relations: Tips from an Insider

by Dada Orwell

Note: A few months after I wrote the first version of this article in September 2002, local TV reporter Jeff Crilley released a whole book on the subject. It's a much better guide to media relations than I could ever provide. I recommend reading it, especially if you may have something to do with Porcupine PR. The book is "Free Publicity," available at www.jeffcrilley.com. But if free advice is all you can afford, read on!

At some point, if it hasn't already, the FSP will truly dawn on the consciousness of the mainstream press. Since I work for a local TV newsroom and am also an FSP supporter, here are my thoughts on ways we can maximize press coverage – and minimize press hostility – without compromising our principles. Though this advice is tailored toward our relations with local media, some of it should hold true for dealing with the more liberty-challenged national press.

First, an anecdote. In covering the ultimate "federal vs. state" conflict – war in 1991 Yugoslavia – BBC reporter Misha Glenny made an observation that I also found to be true when I swung through there a year later. As you may recall, the "breakaway republic" of Croatia was in conflict with "Federal Yugoslav" forces, which were dominated by Serbian hypernationalists.

Obviously this was a much more extreme situation than we'd ever face, since we're not even a secessionist movement. But there is a universal lesson to be learned from flawed yet charming Croatia. Glenny noted that Croats seemed to instinctively understand it was important to be hospitable and accommodating to the press. But Serbs tended to be openly hostile to reporters, often assuming they were "the enemy" and that there was no hope of winning them over. Glenny says this affected early coverage of events, to the benefit of the Croatians. Initially neutral or unsympathetic to them, reporters couldn't help but be a little won over by Croat families inviting them into their bullet-riddled houses for shots of plum brandy while Croatian authorities gave them decent access to the fighting. Positive press coverage eventually, perhaps decisively, helped Croatia win the war.

The media is like the wind, a force of nature. You can either fight it, like the Serbian nationalists did, or you can harness it. You harness it by being kind to reporters, figuring out what they need and getting it to them. They need:

For you to know just a little bit about how they operate in relation to you.
On a day-to-day basis, newsrooms revolve around what's often called "the desk," or the "assignments editor." This poor soul is, as Jeff Crilley puts it, always in combat mode, barely keeping up with incoming problems and opportunities from moment to moment. She decides when and where to send reporters. She handles incoming mountains of press releases and gives each release about five seconds of attention before deciding whether to throw it out. Your call or news release will likely be routed to this busy person first, and it had better grab their attention fast. Reporters, on the other hand, have slightly more time. More on them later.

In dealing with broadcasters, you may also need to take into account the needs of the "newscast producer." Producers are the folks who organize the newscast timing/structure and write much of what the anchors say, probably including most of what they say about your event. Make sure whoever covers your event in person gets a copy of the press release, so they can if necessary leave it with the producer. If your writing skills are up to it, make the release so brief, so catchy and so pithy that they could almost read it on the air as is.

A visual story. Reporters do not crave news conferences and meetings – there's usually nothing interesting to photograph or videotape. They'd much rather see ten of us burning our 1040s in front of the local IRS office on April 15. Or a flea market benefiting the FSP. Use your creativity to come up with something even more interesting than these, if you can!
A local story. Houston TV stations, for instance, don't generally care what happens in Dallas, and they likely won't cover a national FSP event, either. The event must occur in Houston's viewing area, preferably in Houston proper.
Straight talk. They love straight talk … the simpler and straighter the better. Don't go out of your way to scare them or anything, just tell it like it is. If they ever sense you're fibbing, exaggerating or even playing down something negative, they may go sour. If you ramble they may go to sleep.
Remember that time a reporter asked John McCain whether campaign donations had ever influenced his votes? And he said yes I have to admit they probably have? That's why reporters love him and why he came so close to winning the presidency.

Good timing. One way to help assure coverage is to time your event so it happens at an "easy" time on a slow news day. Weekends and holidays are usually slow because government offices and most businesses are closed. Holidays work best if your event is related to the holiday. In both cases it's hard for reporters to get in touch with anyone, so they are often casting about desperately for something to cover.
Time itself. News people are usually short on it and worrying about their deadline. So whatever you do, make it short and simple, and don't waste their Time!
Ideally, hold your event around 10:30 a.m. Reporters generally get to the office around 10 a.m. and have important deadlines between 5 p.m. and midnight. Ten-thirty events give them the most Time to put together maximum coverage of your event after they've left it around noon. This time frame also enables them to get their lunch on time. One possible exception to the 10:30 a.m. suggestion would be if you're able to schedule something to happen during a TV newscast, live.

Example: Say it's the year 2006, and a convoy of 15 RV owners gathers in Wichita, Kansas to migrate to Wyoming. They announce they are going to burn their Kansas state income tax forms at 5:05 p.m. (during the early evening newscast). They announce they are going to drive off at 6:05 p.m. during the second evening newscast. They also express a willingness to change the time a bit in order to accommodate the needs of the newscast producer.

Relevance to current events. This is an exception to the "weekend" rule. When there is a big event that has the media in a feeding frenzy, they will jump at any story that is even vaguely related to the big event, even if they're busy. And they'll tend to ignore anything unrelated. For instance, suppose you run PR for Porcupines in the Dallas area, and the Cowboys go to the Super Bowl. One idea would be to hold a signing ceremony two or three days before the game where a former Cowboy signs up for the FSP then plays ball with some local kids while wearing a Liberty in our Lifetime shirt.
No spam! I'm happy to report this is one pitfall we have now partly escaped. I initially heard talk of us sending out mass e-mails as often as once a month that hit every local media outlet in the country. This would have done more harm than good, and the plan has apparently been modified to the benefit of the recipients. Our news releases now tend to go out only to press outlets in the state where an event is taking place. Not perfect, but it's only one-fiftieth as bad as the initial plan. Good enough for volunteer work!
However, if you really want to ensure coverage for, say, a Fargo, North Dakota event, don't just rely on e-mail. Contact each major Fargo media outlet via e-mail, plus fax, plus phone.

Cultivate relationships with reporters in your area whose work you genuinely like and who are in a position to cover your events themselves. General assignment and political reporters should be better able to do this than, say, police beat reporters. Make a point of paying close attention to their work and leaving them a voice or e-mail from time to time praising them when they do a cool story.
There are lots of journalists who expose government waste; start your quest with them, if you like.

Access and openness. You can't stop them from doing a story! Shutting the media out just makes it easier for them to make you look bad, if that's even what they're after. Allow them as much unrestricted access as you can to our public meetings, etc., and return their calls promptly. As a rule, don't circle the wagons or stonewall when things go bad or we come under criticism. Since we're an organization of flawed humans, some of us are bound to screw up and get us bad press we actually deserve. This is sometimes an opportunity to win public support by being open about our true failings and acting to better ourselves.
I once worked for a station manager who served on the board of a local charity. The charity discovered that one of its employees had abused a child under its care. The board held a meeting, and a board member suggested keeping the incident quiet. My boss said no, we announce the crime ourselves, give the media nowhere to go. They made the announcement, fired the worker and watched as the wrath of the press fell on the perpetrator rather than them.

One caveat: I am talking about public matters here, not private ones. Declining to answer questions of a personal nature or "party secrets" is fine. Just don't get defensive, and don't lie.

Be yourself, but pick your words carefully. For instance, if you want to tell the press we're planning to "take over" a state, hey I can't stop you. But you're pushing all the wrong buttons without even being accurate.
"Taking over" isn't something the FSP is ever going to be capable of. But "nudging" a liberty-friendly state towards more liberty friendliness … that is possible. Passionately supporting and enhancing its existing culture of freedom … surely this is doable. And these phrases don't trigger the justifiably negative response that "takeover" does.

Again, only you can decide what you're going to say. But, as Twain put it, the difference between the right word and the almost-right word is the difference between the lightning and the lightning bug.

Avoid being overhelpful or nosy. Giving the press what they need without losing their respect is a subtle act. If you come off as a backside-kissing groveler eager to please, that's almost worse than being at odds with them. Nervous obsessing over what they're going to put in their story is pretty annoying, too. Just be sociable, get them what they need, and let them do their thing.
Ask! "Is there anything we can do to make this story easier for you to cover?" News people will never fault you for asking them that! But keep in mind what helps one type of media, like television, may not necessarily help radio or print reporters.
Now: Items 1-13 above are the carrot. Here's the stick. If, after implementing these suggestions, you find yourself rewarded with a troublingly erroneous or biased piece, there are some steps you can take:
Let the reporter know your objections. But don't forget: It's not her job to make us look good; it's not her job to do what you want her to. It's only her job to get the facts straight and steer clear of too much bias. That's the territory where you have a fighting chance to make your point.
If you think it necessary, you can also take your complaint to her boss. The boss of the reporter is the editor-in-chief, the news director or assistant news director. In big markets you may have to settle for a manager. Use the phone or written communication; don't confront them in person unless they suggest it.
Complaints about bias will get less attention than complaints about factual errors. Document any substantial factual errors and bring them to the attention of the reporter's boss without needlessly annoying them. If you get nowhere with this boss, you can sometimes go to his boss or on up the chain to the owners until you get results.
As a last resort, of course, you can sue the station or paper for libel. This is not to be taken lightly. You can only win if you can prove that the media outlet reported substantial, damaging falsehoods with reckless disregard as to whether they were true. Usually the plaintiff loses. However, reporters, news directors and media corporate bosses tend to fear libel suits desperately, regardless of whether the suit is successful. They can damage both careers and corporations, and potential defendants will sometimes try to make peace rather than face a suit.
It's our job to see to it that such actions are rarely or never necessary, that the big 13-point carrot we are carrying eliminates the need to use the stick.
But whether "carroting" or "sticking," I wish you all much success in trying out these suggestions!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 18, 2016, 05:13 PM NHFT
I've changed my views on a couple of the ideas in the above article.  For example, cultivating relationships with reporters isn't very practical in New Hampshire...at least you wouldn't want to go out of your way to do it.  They leave the state at too high a rate; unless we're in the news pretty often there's going to be a good chance that any of them you meet will be gone by the next time you interact with the media outlet in question.

Also after writing the article I eventually discovered that the real danger wasn't negative media coverage...it was *no* media coverage.   Obviously NHexit and the FSP have done fairly well at getting coverage, but you can never get enough of it.  At least, not in the context of 2003-2016 environments in which we have functioned.  Maybe things will change later.

I've also come to reject the option of suing news outlets even as a last resort.  It's an ethical question.  Lawsuits deputize taxpayers; that's questionable regardless of what the outlet said.

You may have noticed that since June 23 we've been taking the approach of making our events timely...connected to current events or holidays rather than super interesting.  In the future we could try a different approach, or both:  Where perhaps we have some visual publicity stunt rather than just some signs and flags.   I tend to not have very good ideas for creative publicity stunts so we could always use some ideas....   The other approach is to be in the right *place* where something's already brought out the cameras.   Seeing PR seems narcissistic, and maybe it is...but publicity is oxygen which a movement must have to grow.



Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 18, 2016, 05:23 PM NHFT
What is an acceptable number of deaths of NHExit activists when the Federal government cracks down on their activities?

Presumably they'll crack down in a manner more consistent with Fed history...arrests, searches, planting evidence, IRS investigations, expulsions from jobs, infiltration, turning friendlies into informants, etc.  Best to just factor it into your planning.  I guess they could do some assassinations that look like natural deaths or overdoses but that would surprise me in domestic peacetime.   Should the empire descend into a state of fullblown internal collapse/conflict then they might kill some of us where the communications are down if they can make it look like a crime or accident.  But they'll avoid the Lavoy Finicum situations where practical for their own reasons.   
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 18, 2016, 11:05 PM NHFT
good info

btw LaVoy was played by Ed Harris
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 19, 2016, 07:10 PM NHFT
Received this message from the NAACP after inviting them to this discussion group; I've redacted the email addresses. For those of you who weren't already aware, I sent similar messages to various groups who lobby or what not on behalf of ethnic groups and immigrants.  I tried to cover them equally in one way or another but certainly could have missed some.  No other groups have responded thus far.

"From: Manchester Branch President
Sent: Monday, July 18, 2016 3:35 PM
To: RidleyReport
Cc: NAACPNHSEACOAST
Subject: NHEXIT
 
We decline your invitation to participate in the NHExit discussion.

Thank you.

--
Manchester NAACP Unit #2069

Woullard Lett - President
Claudette Williams - Ist Vice President
Sandra Plummer - Secretary
Jacqueline Davis - Treasurer
Brenda Lett - Health Committee Chair
Rev. Eric Jackson - Legal Redress Committee Chair
Zane Knoy - Membership Committee Chair "

I Sent this as a response about 36 hrs later:
<<Sorry for the slow response:  The invitation remains open should you change your mind. >>
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 19, 2016, 08:28 PM NHFT
good times
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 20, 2016, 12:26 AM NHFT
DR: "in response to andy's suggestion I will probably add some sort of "talking point builder" to the list of roles that need filling."

This isn't really a a role that suits delegation. The reasons why NHexit should appeal to people, should be the core part of everything we work on, in my opinion. It's no good holding signs if the average person has no reason to agree with the signs. Independence happens if 51% of people vote for it.

1.35 million (ish) people live in NH. Something like a million of those are entitled to vote. 80% of people generally vote in referendums about major changes, so we need 400,001 votes, or thereabouts (If anyone has more accurate numbers, let me know). Assuming all 20,000 FSP people both move, and then vote, we're 5% of the way there. That's not enough.

My best suggestion for moving that number of people over to the cause would be that someone should write a compelling argument for a completely new form of government, where people choose their leaders individually rather than collectively. Most districts in most elections are somewhat split, but maybe there's a way of all the Republicans in a district being governed by the Republicans, and likewise for the Democrats. There may still be a need for some form of geographical government by an elected majority, but many other functions could be devolved, and operated on the basis of individual choice. Perhaps NHites could be persuaded that this experiment in governance should begin in their state. Perhaps not. If we were to go this route we'd have to first propose it and then gauge public opinion. I could probably put together a basic argument to this effect, although I'd need help for research, etc.

Once again, I'm a Voluntaryist, like many other people here, so please don't bother criticising any of my, or other people's ideas, on the basis of a lack of ideological purity. I'm absolutely aware of the lack of ideological purity. If you need 51%, ideology is a starting point, but from there it's all politics.

On the other hand, if we really do have an "I'd be doing great if it weren't for those damn Americans" point, then use that instead, because it's a much easier sell. But, unless someone is holding something back, we don't seem to have that.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 20, 2016, 02:25 AM NHFT
in some ways you would only need a small %
in other ways we will need a huge majority to get independence, in whatever ways it happens
I don't see it happening by a 51% vote .... so I like the idea of changing people's minds ... plus that is a great means instead of politics.
Compelling arguments like you are suggesting have been written over and over the past few hundred years .... we can just use them :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 20, 2016, 05:19 AM NHFT
There can be another more obtainable  goal then 51%.

People can begin to want to be left alone. To consider other ways of living their lives. To see that there are others that support change.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: blackie on July 20, 2016, 06:20 AM NHFT
There can be another more obtainable  goal then 51%.

"You can fool some of them some of the time,
But you can only fool half them all of the time"

The Dead Milkmen - Life Is Shit
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IEgkDuJyI0U
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 20, 2016, 01:17 PM NHFT
yea even if we made it to 51% sometime ... there would be steps getting there
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 20, 2016, 09:16 PM NHFT
Something to think about, rather than pushing NHexit, focus on all the ways that the federal government screws with people's lives. Real, measurable, visible things that they do. They take like a fifth of your paycheck. They make laws that get people arrested for plants. They regulate businesses out of existence. They blow up little kids, and the bombs have your face on them.
Point out to them all the reasons they should -hate- the federal government, and then they'll one day say, "Hey, what about that NHexit movement? That's starting to seem like a pretty good idea right about now."
Let them think that they're the ones that came up with it.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 21, 2016, 05:41 AM NHFT
Andy I will think about writing something along the lines you suggested, but I'm not sure me writing something is automatically better than delegating it to others.   With regard to your idea of (as I understand it) retooling the NH system along voluntaryist lines...well I think if we simply had a New Hampshire free of DC, the remaining layers of government might be open to allowing experimentation in one small area.  Designating a free zone of sorts in an unpopulated area purchased by freedom lovers.  Trying to retool the NH system however is a separate issue from independence...and the thing I like about independence-focus is that it does not try and re-invent all the wheels...it just takes the wheel which is working least badly and disconnects it from the burning car.  It's ameliorative rather than utiopian, dealing with known proven quantities....yet takes a massive step in the direction of freedom.
   
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 21, 2016, 05:56 AM NHFT
Something to think about, rather than pushing NHexit, focus on all the ways that the federal government screws with people's lives.

Chan Cabler at NHindependence.org has been talking up a concept he calls "healing federal hurts."  In my mind this could be turned into a Red Cross type charity that appears on the scene when the feds hurt someone.  His example was a  building in, I think , hooksett where OHSA (if I recall) stopped workers from taking snow off a roof because there was some sort of safety precaution that had not been taken.  The roof then collapsed.   What if in the future we, or someone,   had some sort of aid-squad that was always on 24 hour standy and could react in some humanitarian *and* civic way? 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 21, 2016, 05:57 AM NHFT
andy what exactly can i do or not do that would help address the concerns in your most recent message above?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 21, 2016, 09:54 AM NHFT
or in the car analogy .... some of us could kick the fed thugs out of the car and then others can start working on smaller details like cleaning the floor
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 21, 2016, 10:15 AM NHFT
Panarchy is a concept that many people haven't heard of, so when I hear talk of "solutions", from "normal people" the solutions often never consider panarchy.   I sometimes bring it up in my discussions with people, but frankly it's hard to have discussions with some people if they still believe in the existing paradigm as a necessary constant.

 Reminds me of being a young kid and trying to explain the Santa Claus scam to the lingering hold outs.


 Edit note - After reading my post above I wanted to make sure it wasn't construed as harshing on NHexit, which I think is a great idea to foment discussion and thought.  I stand by my Santa Claus statement as written though.
 

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 21, 2016, 11:28 AM NHFT
Sent this to my media contact list.

'NH: Trump adviser's alleged Hillary-execution statement has stunning, secession-related precedent

NH State Rep Al Baldasaro's reported controversial comments about executing Hillary Clinton...have an interesting historical precedent in another restless, northern region of the Western World.  But the results appear to have been strikingly different.

Tommy Sheppard, a nationalist member of the Scottish Parliament, apparently said this regarding the royal wedding of a relatively harmless Kate Middleton: "Off with their heads."  Unlike Baldasaro, who's reportedly facing investigation by America's dreaded secret police, Wikipedia reports that Sheppard merely faced "some criticism."

Why the difference?  Perhaps it's because Scotland has a strong independence movement.   London is reluctant to do anything that might push Scotland toward secession. New Hampshire's independence movement, though growing, is decades behind.  That leaves us vulnerable to DC's de-facto restrictions on controversial speech.

Baldasaro's comments are often disagreeable; believe me I've argued with him enough times in the last decade to know it first hand. But his poor treatment is a reminder of Washington's double standard.  You can safely advocate the assassination of Julian Assange...as many U.S. pols/pundits did when he released Federal atrocity data to the public. But if you weigh in on when the death penalty should be applied, and whether it should be applied to a big Fed politician, Washington investigates.  Maybe later they ruin your life.

The overzealous Secret Service wouldn't so easily be able to come after NH state reps over salty speech, if NH were an independent country.  And they would *choose* not to do so if NH merely had a strong independence movement like Scotland.  Please consider the peaceable alternative to subservience and censorship...look into the concept of New Hampshire independence and entertain it with an open mind. 

Dave Ridley
http://NHexit.com'
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 21, 2016, 12:24 PM NHFT
Sigh, sometimes Al Baldasoro is a butter knife in a drawer full of surgical instruments.  Blunt, dull and not too sharp.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 21, 2016, 12:27 PM NHFT
There can be another more obtainable  goal then 51%.

People can begin to want to be left alone. To consider other ways of living their lives. To see that there are others that support change.

Exactly.  Leave others alone.

Political gains require 51%  of people to agree how the plunder will happen and be divided, while never questioning the idea that plunder itself might be best if left to Pirate stories.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 21, 2016, 01:27 PM NHFT
Something to think about that was just brought up on facebook is that, obviously, after a secession, there may be issues tied to the collection of social security. Regardless of the factual nature of that, -eventually- there would be a generation of old people who aren't eligible for it any more. There will have to be some talk and community outreach regarding the care of the elderly, especially those who become disabled in some way that restricts their ability to work.
Obviously, the answer to that is 'pay into some kind of private retirement plan while you're young', but that won't be nearly as helpful for people currently in their 40's and 50's, and will be completely undoable for people who are already living off of their SS payments.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 21, 2016, 05:12 PM NHFT
Panarchy is a concept that many people haven't heard of, so when I hear talk of "solutions", from "normal people" the solutions often never consider panarchy.   I sometimes bring it up in my discussions with people, but frankly it's hard to have discussions with some people if they still believe in the existing paradigm as a necessary constant.
so true
some can't think outside that programming
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 21, 2016, 10:18 PM NHFT
I don't know why that keeps coming up .... you can get SS in other countries .... or just move back in with Big Brother
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 21, 2016, 10:35 PM NHFT
I don't know why that keeps coming up .... you can get SS in other countries .... or just move back in with Big Brother

Sure, but those other countries are rarely freshly seceded from the U.S.
And even if the U.S. decides that it's totally fine to send money out of the most over extended fund in the budget to those ingrates who don't even want it, those dirty rebel secessionists, that's an after the fact thing. I'm talking about -before- the fact, when people are going to stand up and say:

"Now, I'm no friend of the federal government, but you know, there are a FEW things that they do that actually -help- people! For instance, my grandparents are both living off of social security right now, and my dad's looking to retire in a few years. And what's going to happen when that gets cut off? Our grandparents and soon our parents are just left twisting in the wind! I'll help them out, of course, but there's only so much I can do, and coming up with a few thousand dollars extra every month isn't realistic! So, maybe some of you guys are ok with just letting your parents starve in the streets <bla bla bla appeal to emotion, scare tactics, I want my kids to know their grandparents etc>"

Facts will be nice, but appeals to emotion are powerful, which is why everyone always uses them. If there's some kind of social movement or network of people taking time to help retired people with stuff, some kind of charity, etc, that would go a long way towards reassuring people. In actual fact, it's unnecessary, but the key in -actually- seceding is to win support, not arguments.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 21, 2016, 11:44 PM NHFT
I don't think those that need the government to survive will support us.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: blackie on July 22, 2016, 06:23 AM NHFT
It seems like most of the people talking about NH seceding aren't from the New England area. They don't seem to understand, or ignore, the relationship between the New England states.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 22, 2016, 07:43 AM NHFT
While we're talking about things that could potentially happen or need consideration if NH seceded,  I'll play devils advocate for a moment.

What happens if NH becomes more authoritarian than it already is? 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 22, 2016, 09:03 AM NHFT
almost by definition ... that can't happen
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 22, 2016, 09:08 AM NHFT
It seems like most of the people talking about NH seceding aren't from the New England area. They don't seem to understand, or ignore, the relationship between the New England states.
a few years ago I asked almost every candidate about secession at a CNHT picnic. There was about 500 people there and I asked about 40 what their ideas were. All of them ..... except for about 4 Free Staters .... were for it. Only 1 had to hesitate (that old gun guy from Concord), but he gave me a long statement about it.
Most of these people had lived in NH for 20 years or so at least. The new comers thought I was trying to get them in trouble or something.
These were almost all Republicans.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 22, 2016, 09:09 AM NHFT
how would you guys vote?
or what is your preference?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 22, 2016, 09:29 AM NHFT

 If I could weasel a "free pony" out of NH, I'd give some consideration to this vote. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 22, 2016, 12:56 PM NHFT
It seems like most of the people talking about NH seceding aren't from the New England area. They don't seem to understand, or ignore, the relationship between the New England states.
a few years ago I asked almost every candidate about secession at a CNHT picnic. There was about 500 people there and I asked about 40 what their ideas were. All of them ..... except for about 4 Free Staters .... were for it. Only 1 had to hesitate (that old gun guy from Concord), but he gave me a long statement about it.
Most of these people had lived in NH for 20 years or so at least. The new comers thought I was trying to get them in trouble or something.
These were almost all Republicans.

See? That you can so casually say stuff like that makes me really really really really want to move there as soon as possible
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 22, 2016, 04:38 PM NHFT
Well that might be true other places as well.
This was at the Coalition New Hampshire Taxpayers .... so not exactly the crowd that wants more government.
But it was 100% of those I asked, on the record, who were running that summer.
I had one say he wanted "no comment", but when I told him I would just write down what he said ... or he could answer a different question .... he gave me a "let's leave the US" statement.
Dave Ridley will be able to replicate these results as he discusses NHexit with people. :)

almost all of the freestaters declined to answer or said "of course I would prefer it if NH was separate." :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 22, 2016, 04:40 PM NHFT

 If I could weasel a "free pony" out of NH, I'd give some consideration to this vote.
yea to me
it is about changing people's minds about these kinds of issues like you FLib.
maybe the push with NHexit will be for some vote someday .... in the meantime we can push the whole idea.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 23, 2016, 09:20 AM NHFT

 It might be a good thing to contact other "evil" countries, like Russia, China etc.  and ask if NH secedes would they please not nuke NH ?  It also begins a dialogue about establishing free trade and non-aggression pacts etc.   Has publicity value too.

 This on the surface might not be taken seriously, but it could put NH in a potential Switzerland role as being officially neutral, not to mention foment the idea of creating "nuclear safe zones", if such a thing could even exist. 

Admittedly I have no idea how you tell a nuclear cloud not to cross an imaginary line...maybe you pass a law?   (smiley emoticon)   
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 23, 2016, 07:20 PM NHFT
that makes sense
Maybe we could set up a few ambassadors and we could communicate with many countries and states and see if they will "recognize" us and/or not nuke us. :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 23, 2016, 07:37 PM NHFT
andy what exactly can i do or not do that would help address the concerns in your most recent message above?

Hi Dave,
By "It can't be delegated" I didn't mean it's your job, I meant it's everyone's job. The way I see it, the process of gathering clearly articulated, easily understandable reasons to leave isn't really a department of what we're doing, it's a stage of what we're doing, and it's the stage we're currently at. I'm not trying to  pile more work on you specifically :)
Also the idea of free zones is pretty plausible. It's not so far from what China did with Hong Kong, and that worked out relatively well. Maybe we could restart Indian Stream or suchlike :)

"Free Libertarian" mentioned Panarchy and, obscure though that seems at the moment, I think some version of that, properly explained, could get popular support at some stage.

"Erroneous_Logic" mentions some valid logistical concerns around Social Security that I have no specific answer to. People would want some answer as to how that could be dealt with that are at least plausible, if not actually guaranteed, and that could form a basis for negotiation post-NHexit. We're having similar difficulties right now with Brexit. At least in the case of SS it refers to money that is theoretically owed to identifiable individuals.

Also, Russell Kanning, we'd only need 51% in a referendum, but first we'd need a referendum to happen and external authorities to agree that having it was legitimate. So you're right that it's harder than just getting 51%, but I don't think that means we need more than 51%, just that we'd have to do other things first which may turn out to be more difficult than getting the 51% on the day. We'd probably need a majority, and some public pressure, for quite a while. The UK was predominantly against the EU for about 20 years before we got a chance to vote on it.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 24, 2016, 10:12 AM NHFT
How many of you guys want to start making a new government to get the ball rolling?
Also is this something that can happen inside the NHexit movement or is that about getting a vote inside the current government?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 24, 2016, 10:23 AM NHFT
How many of you guys want to start making a new government to get the ball rolling?
Also is this something that can happen inside the NHexit movement or is that about getting a vote inside the current government?


 I, hereby declare myself a self governing individual.    Well that was easy. 

I'm willing to recognize others who agree not to initiate or threaten offensive force, but first there will be a few forms for you all to fill out.  (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 24, 2016, 03:31 PM NHFT
well if some of us set up a new government of sorts ... I was already thinking your were part of the new ruling elite.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 24, 2016, 06:16 PM NHFT
well if some of us set up a new government of sorts ... I was already thinking your were part of the new ruling elite.


 I'm tanned and rested. (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 24, 2016, 08:35 PM NHFT
What about a power tie, got to have a power tie... 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 24, 2016, 08:57 PM NHFT
ok good insights andy:  Do you have a sense what *you* think the primary pithy talking point might to be, which everyone in the movement knows? how about the rest of you?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 24, 2016, 09:06 PM NHFT
How many of you guys want to start making a new government to get the ball rolling?
Also is this something that can happen inside the NHexit movement or is that about getting a vote inside the current government?

Maybe I'm missing something, but the problems with that might be

1) It sounds too much like the batshit wing of the 90s Republic of Texas
2) It just creates another layer of (eventually) bossy government that is added to all the others (that happened to some extent with the FSP leadership)

The Irish republicans did it with some success in the 1920 era because they didn't already have all their own government establishments.  But their success was bloody and *we* already have a widely accepted local/state government infrastructure that needs nothing added to it....even if the addition is parallel.   please god no don't add anything to it! lol   

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 24, 2016, 11:17 PM NHFT
I guess my new regime is not being accepted by the NHexit powers that be :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 24, 2016, 11:18 PM NHFT
What about a power tie, got to have a power tie...
that and executive style hair used to be essential ... but now we have Trump
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 24, 2016, 11:19 PM NHFT
you do know they can claim we are batshit crazy no matter what we do
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 26, 2016, 02:52 PM NHFT
I'm generally not in favor of creating more government. It'll just end up being another layer of control between people and whatever level of government is currently rubbing against them.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 26, 2016, 06:50 PM NHFT
What about a power tie, got to have a power tie...


 I'm not allowed to use power tools.  (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 26, 2016, 08:58 PM NHFT
ok good insights andy:  Do you have a sense what *you* think the primary pithy talking point might to be, which everyone in the movement knows? how about the rest of you?

My reason for wanting NHexit is because I'm always and everywhere in favour of secession, and power moving closer to the individual. I'd be interested in hearing what everyone else's reasons are, because those can also go towards making a case.

As for what the eventual talking points should be, the Brexiteers were a little bit dishonest here, because we basically did some polling as to what the top five motivating factors for voters were, and then positioned ourselves as the answer to all of those. It turned out the top one was the NHS (Britain's socialist healthcare system) so Arron Banks made this completely ridiculous video and paid to have it broadcast on mainstream UK television over and over:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIYq5xMW98I

I always thought that video was way over the top and not really backed up by any evidence, but Arron reckons it won an extra 2 million votes, which, if true, would mean it was the difference between winning and losing.

Politics is a pretty dirty business, but any winning campaign tends to figure out what most people want and then say they are that thing. I'm not in NH so I don't know what people want, but whatever it is, I'd try to find a way to claim that NHexit is the answer.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 26, 2016, 09:23 PM NHFT
How many of you guys want to start making a new government to get the ball rolling?
Also is this something that can happen inside the NHexit movement or is that about getting a vote inside the current government?
Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit - much like an opposition party would generally form,
Or is this something you're thinking of actually implementing inside the current system (seems like a bad idea to me)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 26, 2016, 09:25 PM NHFT
I'm generally not in favor of creating more government. It'll just end up being another layer of control between people and whatever level of government is currently rubbing against them.
I am not quite sure what you are referring to .... is the NHexit idea or my love of starting a new country ... or something else?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 26, 2016, 09:29 PM NHFT
Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit

yea ... and starting it now
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 26, 2016, 09:32 PM NHFT
So Dave ... what do you think of andy's idea of finding out what they want and aligning nhexit with those?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 26, 2016, 09:35 PM NHFT
Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit

yea ... and starting it now

Ok. I think we need a Skype conference, or something like that, at some point fairly soon.
I've got a feeling that there are many good points being made but that we're talking past each other on strategy. We need to have a substantial multi-way discussion about what's actually going to happen next.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 26, 2016, 10:37 PM NHFT
good idea
I might not be able to join, but maybe most of the guys could :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 27, 2016, 09:19 PM NHFT
The problem of self ownership which most of us here know is the logical end of secession is it is exacerbated by some people looking to the next paradigm trying to talk to people stuck in the present paradigm.  There is literally a language barrier.

 For instance concepts like Panarchy are so foreign to people that they haven't even started to ridicule it yet.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 27, 2016, 09:39 PM NHFT
How many of you guys want to start making a new government to get the ball rolling?
Also is this something that can happen inside the NHexit movement or is that about getting a vote inside the current government?
Are you talking about a "Plausible alternative government"- ie, a bunch of people within and without the current NHexit that could conceivably run whatever bits of the apparatus of state would be left after NHexit - much like an opposition party would generally form,
Or is this something you're thinking of actually implementing inside the current system (seems like a bad idea to me)

  Yes, it seems like a bad idea to recreate the present model.

  Also, thanks for contributing to the conversation.  some of us have been here so long we sometimes horse around with each other which makes it hard for the new people to know when we're being wise asses or doing our sage imitations or sometimes both.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 28, 2016, 04:25 PM NHFT
Andy I guess we could go on for weeks regarding the advantages of independence but for me two things pop to the top at the moment.

1) I think NH has about 25,000 pages of laws and regulations.  The feds have between 170,000 and 2 million pages, depending on how you count them.   I'd welcome harder and faster numbers, but if the Fed number were just 170,000 then taking them out of the equation would eliminate, at one stroke, over 80 percent of the laws and regulations NH residents must follow.
2) NH folk should not have to follow 170,00+ pages of Federal Law/regulation, and every day NH is in the Union...people are at risk of arrest or something if they violate one of the 169,000 they've never even heard of.   Just ask Belmont gunsmith Jonathon Irish....

There may be better talking points but this is my fast off the cuff one.  Probably something backed by a study about how small nation economies prosper would be better.  Supposedly there are studies out there than indicate americans about about 10 to 100 times as poor as they would be under freedom and a decent new car should cost about 2,000 bucks in today's dollars... in a free U.S. So it should be in a free NH... though we know it wouldn't be completely free. 

Also for those wanting to research what people want... i think if you google WMUR marijuana poll you'll find a recent extenseve polling data on various issues 2016.   Obviously I"m against making unkeepable promises like the Brexiters but I suspect the remainers did it even worse and just aren't getting called on it because Establishment Media.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 28, 2016, 05:11 PM NHFT
with regard to the idea of a live chat or conference call type thing, I'm in favor of pretty much all peaceable activity.  But I might not directly participate... having someone summarize it for me afterward might be helpful. I'd probably look that over closely and try to take some action.

also andy now that you mention it, having other exit groups call free talk live would be useful , especially if they were to explain that nhexit folk invited them to.   another thing that would be fun is if they posted to one of our discussion groups or you posted to theirs....and thanks andy!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 28, 2016, 05:24 PM NHFT
How about we start building our "1000 reasons life would be better free of the Feds" on this thread another thread or on the webpage, so we can keep pointing people to it?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 28, 2016, 05:28 PM NHFT
need to add ourselves to this
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_active_separatist_movements_in_North_America#United_States
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 28, 2016, 05:55 PM NHFT
in case anyone missed it
http://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2016/07/5-us-independence-movements-inspired-by-brexit-214010
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 28, 2016, 06:24 PM NHFT
On the "making unkeepable promises" issue, rather than spouting off "a free New Hampshire means better healthcare and cheap bla bla", direct it to the fact that -New Hampshire- would be the ones responsible for the management of it's own business, rather than congress and the federal government, with their very horrible track record. Something like:

Quote
"In an independent New Hampshire, we would be the ones who decided how to manage our local healthcare issues, not the uncaring bureaucrats in Washington. They've shown that they're only interested in money and power, so lets show them that we won't be their stepping stool for that goal any longer."

that way, there's none of that 'free pony for every citizen' nonsense, but you still have a message of hope and prosperity.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 28, 2016, 08:47 PM NHFT
Just when I was starting to like this guy he starts talking down Vermin Supreme!

Hey, independence is a way to turn the conversation in the direction I think it needs to be taken... instead of talking about begging for crumbs.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 28, 2016, 09:08 PM NHFT
Hey, independence is a way to turn the conversation in the direction I think it needs to be taken... instead of talking about begging for crumbs.

Oh, sure, but the remark was made in response to a response to someone talking about simply telling people what they want to hear, even if it's nonsense and imaginary.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 28, 2016, 11:19 PM NHFT
What if Vermin Supreme ends up winning the future Prime Minister position in NH?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 28, 2016, 11:47 PM NHFT
What if Vermin Supreme ends up winning the future Prime Minister position in NH?

That would be awesome, because that would imply that there -was- such a position to be won.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on July 29, 2016, 05:08 AM NHFT
When conducting a poll among female voters the topic of free ponies made their eyes light up with joy!

Now the problem is what to do about people that can't afford to maintain their ponies. So I'm recommending a commission to study the creation of a Pony Welfare Department. No Pony Left Behind!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 29, 2016, 08:55 AM NHFT
What if Vermin Supreme ends up winning the future Prime Minister position in NH?

  I think Vermin will have to win over Misty the Cat's supporters to get the majority he's gonna need. 
 
 I remain skeptical unless he can come up with some freebies to convince them, maybe he needs a catchy slogan "clean litter boxes are a right" or something like that.   
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 29, 2016, 08:56 AM NHFT
When conducting a poll among female voters the topic of free ponies made their eyes light up with joy!

Now the problem is what to do about people that can't afford to maintain their ponies. So I'm recommending a commission to study the creation of a Pony Welfare Department. No Pony Left Behind!


 See?  There you go! Horsing around.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 29, 2016, 10:00 AM NHFT
  I read the list of potential tasks posted here and thought about the suggestion for a Granite Ghandi

 Ringing the cognitive dissonance bell in a tongue in cheek way can be an effective tool in gaining attention. 

Therefore I submit Maggie Hassan as the "Granite Ghandi" .   Why ?   Didn't she sign a bill authorizing "medical marijuana" while it is still Federally prohibited ? 

 So, while I'm obviously kidding, if  I were to give an interview, I'd mention that Maggie has ALREADY let her secessionist freak flag fly.

Edit -  For a hat trick in cognitive dissonance bell ringing, I suggest a joint "free the weed" and NHexit protest at a large NH liquor store with at least one large poster of Maggie being touted as a leading secessionist.   


Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 29, 2016, 10:53 AM NHFT
makes sense
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 29, 2016, 01:58 PM NHFT
Therefore I submit Maggie Hassan as the "Granite Ghandi" .   Why ?   Didn't she sign a bill authorizing "medical marijuana" while it is still Federally prohibited ? 

 So, while I'm obviously kidding, if  I were to give an interview, I'd mention that Maggie has ALREADY let her secessionist freak flag fly.

As amusing as that is, it is also a good idea to point out to people how they, and various other people already tell the federal government to go pound sand. Things like marijuana legalization, or even use by an individual, are a good example.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 29, 2016, 03:39 PM NHFT
so true
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 29, 2016, 07:46 PM NHFT
Therefore I submit Maggie Hassan as the "Granite Ghandi" .   Why ?   Didn't she sign a bill authorizing "medical marijuana" while it is still Federally prohibited ? 

 So, while I'm obviously kidding, if  I were to give an interview, I'd mention that Maggie has ALREADY let her secessionist freak flag fly.

As amusing as that is, it is also a good idea to point out to people how they, and various other people already tell the federal government to go pound sand. Things like marijuana legalization, or even use by an individual, are a good example.

Even the feds tell the feds to pound sand.   Irv Rosenfeld has been given about 9 ounces of cannabis per month for years by the feds as part of their Compassionate New Investigational drug program. (yes, it's a corny name for the program) 

Shortly after a press conference in Concord at the Legislative Office building just a few years back he sparked up a joint in the gooberments smoking room and I witnessed a NH state cop walk by, pretending he didn't see a thing.   So, if I felt like it, I could probably come up with a list and use it as material to preach to the choir here.  WMUR covered the story but of course failed to mention any legal contradictions, but I repeat myself.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on July 29, 2016, 07:49 PM NHFT
Exactly. You could sit with someone and spend weeks pointing out the ways that the people in the federal government contradict each other.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on July 29, 2016, 10:54 PM NHFT
some good ideas here today/yesterday... i'm starting to get a little overwhelmed with action items but have placed them in the cue.  the  ones I can't do I will try to publicize at least a little bit.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 29, 2016, 11:32 PM NHFT
if you come up with good items weedaclaus .... we can broadcast them outside the choir room
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on July 30, 2016, 09:03 PM NHFT
I hadn't really noticed that this exists, but here it is.
http://nhindependence.org/about-us/reasons/
That sounds a lot like what I was asking for earlier.
Does anyone have any major objections to any of it? It sounds like a workable platform to me.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 30, 2016, 10:51 PM NHFT
those are our buddies
I don't think any of them are active on this forum right now, but we know them. :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on July 31, 2016, 09:21 AM NHFT
if you come up with good items weedaclaus .... we can broadcast them outside the choir room

  The liquor store  seems like a logical ground zero for ironical presentation and festive fun. 

 If the moths haven't eaten ol' Weeda Claus beard,  I might be able to convince him to fly in and dance one more time.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on July 31, 2016, 10:22 AM NHFT
normally we have made fun of the NH government from there .... I guess you can reject the Feds and then just hope the NH liquor stores start selling pot
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 01, 2016, 01:42 PM NHFT
While the idea of combining the liquor store issue with the NHexit issue is principally sound, and I don't remember but I think I may have advocated for it, after some further thought, it's a bad PR move, because it seems to be implying that you don't think the New Hampshire state government is doing a good job, which is the opposite thing you want to imply during a secession demonstration.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 01, 2016, 08:21 PM NHFT
While the idea of combining the liquor store issue with the NHexit issue is principally sound, and I don't remember but I think I may have advocated for it, after some further thought, it's a bad PR move, because it seems to be implying that you don't think the New Hampshire state government is doing a good job, which is the opposite thing you want to imply during a secession demonstration.

I get your point.

However, I see the issue of succession as more a vehicle for getting people excited. Seems that it would be 20 years to even think to actually achieve a political success.

It's reminds me when a libertarian candidate for president talks like he could win the election.  ;D It's much more effective as a idealogical vehicle. Plus it avoids the inevitable let down that people go through after the election.

But, hey, I believe in personal succession.  :icon_pirat:
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 01, 2016, 09:03 PM NHFT
I mean, you're the one who's there, and as much as I'd like to be, I'm not, so I can't really tell you what's best, but I'm just pointing out that people are manipulated all the time, and sooner or later someone will point out "look they can't even make up their minds what they want haha now let's talk about life imprisonment for injecting the marijuannas". Obviously, they would be disingenuous, but it would still have a negative effect on public opinion, which is a vital factor in authoritarian action.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 01, 2016, 10:33 PM NHFT
I mean, you're the one who's there, and as much as I'd like to be, I'm not, so I can't really tell you what's best, but I'm just pointing out that people are manipulated all the time, and sooner or later someone will point out "look they can't even make up their minds what they want haha now let's talk about life imprisonment for injecting the marijuannas". Obviously, they would be disingenuous, but it would still have a negative effect on public opinion, which is a vital factor in authoritarian action.

I find your Logic to be far from Erroneous.  :)

I am not going to be one to decide these things either, but, hope to see people looking to step away from the plantation.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 01, 2016, 10:44 PM NHFT
Oh indeed, in its many forms. I have no specific desire for any kind of governance, but my point is, regardless of which direction you're going, towards 'secession is good enough for me' or 'deprecate the state in its entirety', sending conflicting messages like that can mess with either goal.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 02, 2016, 01:04 AM NHFT
to me the liquor store protest didn't seem like the ideal place or issue, but it's still fun and helpful to see any activity. I'd do something to help support such a protest.  Also the guys on the facebook group are talking about trying to do something at Laconia City Hall August 8.  Standing by. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 03, 2016, 01:15 AM NHFT
getting rid of the big bully can be done without supporting the smaller bully :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 03, 2016, 03:55 AM NHFT
LTE I just sent to Laconia Citizen about next NHexit.com demonstration
See also
https://www.facebook.com/events/152527761846400/


Citizen article sparks demonstration by Thanks But No Tanks

Dear Editor:

The Citizen reports our Federal overlords are attempting to arm every Laconia police officer with a rifle.  While most of us might personally like the NH cops we know...and while most could agree that police in the "free state" tend to be some of the most benign in the U.S., there is a reason for that. And it's not militarization or Feds. 

They're more benign because we still have some Mayberry left and because the people at least *try* to peaceably keep their powers and capabilities limited. Toward this end, activists from Thanks But No Tanks and NHexit.com have called a demonstration to occur at 6 p.m., before the public hearing at Laconia City Hall.  Details are at NHexit.com.

Why exactly *does* Washington need to be involved in Laconia affairs, especially when this particular involvement isn't aimed at curbing police abuses?  Safety against crime...comes from armed and vigilant citizens, not central governments who torture people.  Safety against such faroff governments comes from a more independent New Hampshire.  We have a chance to demonstrate that independence on a personal level Monday...by expressing our opposition to this escalation and thus help deter the next one.   

Dave Ridley
Founder
NHexit.com
Bedford, NH
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 03, 2016, 10:01 AM NHFT
While the idea of combining the liquor store issue with the NHexit issue is principally sound, and I don't remember but I think I may have advocated for it, after some further thought, it's a bad PR move, because it seems to be implying that you don't think the New Hampshire state government is doing a good job, which is the opposite thing you want to imply during a secession demonstration.


 You may be right.

 The problem with ironical humor is if the audience isn't hip to it, we're stuck laughing at our own inside jokes.  When I do that I just look like a goof ball wearing a pot leaf adorned hat and a fake beard.

 Okay, now that my annual self deprecating quota has been met, I can relax.  (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 03, 2016, 10:41 AM NHFT
Received this back from the Citizen:

"Mr. Ridley,

First of all, our newspaper never reported this.

Second, I'm sorry to tell you this. but our letters to the editor section is reserved for residents of the Lakes Region.

Get your facts straight.

Ed Pierce
Editor, The Citizen newspaper"

Followed by the following email from the same guy:

"http://www.laconiadailysun.com/newsx/local-news/96790-police-to-carry-rifles

Note that your headline is wrong, it was not our newspaper and we demand a retraction and correction of the facts immediately."
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 04, 2016, 09:46 PM NHFT
Kinda angry
is it the wrong paper?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 05, 2016, 03:17 AM NHFT
Ya I thought I saw an article in the Citizen and was trying to give them credit.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 05, 2016, 03:21 AM NHFT
What if we were to approach some state reps with a request for a proposed constitutional amendment, reading:

"The people of New Hampshire have a right to self-determination through their elected representatives."

What problems do you see with the wording? I got this idea from a speech in the Basque lands, delivered by a Slovenian independence expert. I think she said Ljubljana put something similar through at the Republic (state) level around 1990, and that secession was a fringe movement until the year before it happened in 1991. Even their "clarifying" constitutional amendment affirming the right to self determination.... probably would not have been possible except for the near panic which followed Serbia's attempt to re-centralize Yugoslavia and move against Kosovo around 1989.
The benefit of my brainstorm would be that I think it's the only way to get something other than a candidate in front of all NH voters. It's also mildly worded with a popular sound to it, and I like the fact it imitates successful history. But I think it would require 66% of the votes cast, after passing all three branches...in order to enter the constitution. Then an independence bill would have to pass all three... or pass both houses by 2/3 each if vetoed.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 05, 2016, 02:55 PM NHFT
I've just posted a demonstration event at

https://www.facebook.com/events/960538707390441/
But I accidentally set it as "private" so only those invited can see it.   Here's a copy:

"Aug 6  5:00 PM - 9:30 PM

Near London Bridge & Haverill Rd (111) Windham, NH

According to the link below, Trump will be at Windham High School tomorrow, Sat Aug 6, doors opening 6pm. It's pretty late to schedule a demonstration, and I'm not sure I can be there. But in accordance with the apparent #NHexit consensus that it's okay to schedule a demonstration you might not attend: Here I am doing so. Let's see how it works. If you go, you'll probably find something to do regardless. I've listed as the gathering point, an intersection about 1000 feet north of the school. https://www.donaldjtrump.com/schedule"

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 05, 2016, 10:20 PM NHFT
I like it .... but I don't quite understand the wording
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 06, 2016, 03:59 AM NHFT
oh uh...what should I clarify?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 06, 2016, 09:20 AM NHFT
If you go...maybe e-mail me or phone me with a report of what you saw.... even if I'm there I'll tend to circle it rather than stay in one spot.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 06, 2016, 12:02 PM NHFT
What if we were to approach some state reps with a request for a proposed constitutional amendment, reading:

"The people of New Hampshire have a right to self-determination through their elected representatives."

What problems do you see with the wording? I got this idea from a speech in the Basque lands, delivered by a Slovenian independence expert. I think she said Ljubljana put something similar through at the Republic (state) level around 1990, and that secession was a fringe movement until the year before it happened in 1991. Even their "clarifying" constitutional amendment affirming the right to self determination.... probably would not have been possible except for the near panic which followed Serbia's attempt to re-centralize Yugoslavia and move against Kosovo around 1989.
The benefit of my brainstorm would be that I think it's the only way to get something other than a candidate in front of all NH voters. It's also mildly worded with a popular sound to it, and I like the fact it imitates successful history. But I think it would require 66% of the votes cast, after passing all three branches...in order to enter the constitution. Then an independence bill would have to pass all three... or pass both houses by 2/3 each if vetoed.

"The people of NH have a right to self determination thru their elected representatives"

 I like what you are trying to say, but I have some concerns with how it will be interpreted.

 Some people would use this as a way of saying that the only way or proper "legal" way for self determination is thru a representative.  The oxymoronism be damned.

 In peripheral situations where NH laws or rights are being discussed, unrelated to secession, that proposed language could  be ratcheted into additional ways to rob people of freedom. 

In other words the wording could be used to further reduce rights to privileges and now "they" would have some magic words to point to as "proof" that rights must first be "approved .  More oxymoronism would then ensue.

I think Lysander Spooner said it well, when he said something about the constitution has either authorized such a government as we have or been powerless to stop it. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 06, 2016, 10:37 PM NHFT
agree
was Spooner the first to say that? hmmm

maybe take off the part about reps

I also just found it confusing.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Mark D. Jacobsen on August 07, 2016, 01:07 AM NHFT
Nice topic.
How about changing that slogan to:

"People of NH possess the right of self determination."
or
"NH = Self Determination"
The shorter and more concise the better.

The domain nhexit.com is unavailable.
nhexit.net and .org are available. I read most of the posts on this thread and I do not recall this being mentioned.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 07, 2016, 01:58 AM NHFT
If you're looking to shorten stuff down to simple slogans, keep in mind that somewhat longer slogans are actually more effective, because they're more able to express strong emotion in a way that resonates with our stupid monkey brains.

15 minutes can save you 15 percent or more on car insurance.
What happens in Vegas, stays in Vegas.
Melts in your mouth, not in your hands.
Strong enough for a man, but made for a woman.

I guarantee that everyone alive today in the U.S. will recognize at least two of those, if not more.

Here's a link talking about it.
http://adage.com/article/al-ries/long-slogans-absolutely-positively-effective-short/145755/ (http://adage.com/article/al-ries/long-slogans-absolutely-positively-effective-short/145755/)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 07, 2016, 04:20 AM NHFT
 Mark wrote:

'  "Nice topic.
How about changing that slogan to:

"People of NH possess the right of self determination."  '

 I think I like Mark's wording above perhaps... at least it is a concrete suggestion.   Ultimately we need a course of action which:

1) Gives all NH voters a chance to vote in some way on the question of NH independence.  But that would probably be too detailed and less likely to pass than mark's idea.     
2) Does not create new tools for killing freedom
3) Has wording that gives it a 20% chance of passage by the legislature within 10 years. (Federal abuses should gradually increase its performance each session...and as the Quebecois will tell you, just having a referendum is a victory).

This could be done through a referendum on the governor's election or through a constitutional amendment... I don't know any other way.   If we pushed through a California style initiative and referendum process for creating laws...that would also create a big tool for killing freedom. We probably don't want to do anything that makes "our" system more like California's.  Perhaps there could be a constitutional amendment that allows plebiscites on the issue of national independence for NH
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 07, 2016, 04:35 AM NHFT
I've downloaded 30 youtube lectures on slovenija/quebec/scotland independence, NH independence, federal practices and Brexit.  I'm listening to them 30 min. a day while I exercise ...I'm listening to you guys too....next on list will be audio files of the computer reading gandhi letters to me and copy-pastes of all the text at NHindependence.org

Guess I should listen to a computer-read of the NH constitution too.

Hardly anyone is showing up at the demonstrations I'm calling or even most of the ones I'm supporting.  Media attention is down to something approaching nill.  it's not encouraging.   but a division of labor is starting to fall into place, exit volunteers are actually doing stuff. We're at least as far along as slovenia was in 1988.   and maybe when I'm done I'll be world's reigning expert on the NH independence question :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 07, 2016, 12:00 PM NHFT
as far as I know the referendum or Proposition process in California has only curbed government .... the system there doesn't like it.
I don't think CA system is any worse than NH ... just bigger and more corrupt like the US one
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 07, 2016, 12:02 PM NHFT
btw NHexit.com is not available .... because Dave is already using it.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 07, 2016, 02:17 PM NHFT
At this point I'm thinking of waiting until Nov. to approach state reps with a request for a bill/CACR/resolution.  My understanding is they can submit these in either Sept or Nov. So I don't know of a downside to waiting until Oct. before we (possibly) make such a request.   Waiting would reduce the chances that we submit something which doesn't really need to be submitted.  For example we might learn in Oct. that someone has already submitted a bill or what not....which we can throw our limited weight behind.  Though we might have thought about it for a long time, actually requesting any such thing should be looked at as a last resort . It should be postponed until necessary and avoided if practical, since it supposedly costs taxpayers a little bit.   Your thoughts on this plan of postponed action?

Russel I guess another downside to having initiative/referendum would be that getting one put in place would be a lot of work and steps which don't move directly toward independence.  But maybe you're right, I'm not sure.   Or I wonder if initiative/referendum could be inserted as a method of achieving *only* independence.   
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 07, 2016, 07:59 PM NHFT
oh no .... I got the 1 "L" treatment ... that is never a good sign ;)

sorry ... sometimes I get lost. What am I right about? I can never hear it often enough. :)

It would be great to have some sort of independence minded bill pushed this year. If that is what you want to get behind first with NHexit .... I like it. If you want to also do other stuff .... all the better.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 08, 2016, 02:17 PM NHFT
Whoop...sorry russell!  went to check spelling then got distracted. 

To: anastanic@(redacted)
 
Zdravo gospa Stani?: Imam vprašanje za vas.

A week or so ago I downloaded your independence-and-money speech from
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0sSWwOpjXI
and listened to it while out jogging.  I run NHexit.com and literally stopped still when you mentioned what was, if I recall, a Slovene constitutional amendment undertaken around 1989 to clarify that the republic had a right of secession.  When I got home I started writing up wording for a similar constitutional amendment in New Hampshire (I'd get a sympathetic state rep to submit it if we use that approach). 

However I have not been able to find an English-language copy of the Slovene amendment (article?) you were referring to.  Can you direct me?  I do speak Croatian but con't understand it very well....let alone Slovenian! 

Also: Do you think NH is further along...or further behind where Slovenia was in 1988 on the question of independence?  I was kind of surprised and inspired by your statement which (if I heard correctly) indicated that it was a fringe issue in Slovenia in 1988.   I remember reading about Slovenia's rising level of freedom in the papers in 1988 and had sort of spent the last 28 years thinking independence was on the table in '88.

Hvala,

Dave Ridley
NHexit.com



NH: Une question pour Daniel Turp

info@(redacted).quebec

I enjoyed your speech at
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c0sSWwOpjXI
...where (if I recall accurately) you suggested the creation of a G8 of independence-seeking regions.

Is this underway, and is there a way I or others can help? Is there a way NH independence activists or politicians can/should be involved?   Would you have any interest in delivering a speech to free staters or other independence activists at Porcupine Fest?  That's in northern NH every June: http://PorcFest.com 

We have some Québécois folk involved now, who have moved here...but so often it seems like there is a disconnect between NH and Quebec.   Like it's not there.  In any case...

Je ne suis pas Québécois, mais je veux un pays.

Dave Ridley
Founder
NHexit.com



Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 08, 2016, 02:19 PM NHFT
From the NHexit discussion group on Facebook, which you can find thru http://NHexit.com :

"BE SURE TO SHARE THIS:
Dear Friends of NHExit,
Please join us Saturday, Labor Day Weekend, September 3rd for a BBQ Pot Luck at our Home.
We live at 168 Murray Hill Road in Hill, New Hampshire 603-671-8069
You can arrive at 3:00 PM. Dinner will start at 5:00 PM and the fun will end at Midnight.
Please Bring:
1.) Lawn Chairs
2.) A Canopy (If you have one)
3.) Something to throw on the grill
4.) A Dish to SHARE
5.) BYOB
6.) Bring a Friend
7.) Sweater, Jacket or warm clothes for cool evening
Please RSVP (Let us know you’re planning to attend or not) If we do not know you are coming we’ll assume you’re not. Please arrive on time so we can eat together.
We’ll need extra lawn chairs, 1-3 folding tables and maybe 1-3 extra grills. Let us know if you can bring any of these.
We’ll be doing a Bonfire so bring S’mores if you like.
Christopher Gronski will do a short talk on the Historical, Legal, Financial, social and political challenges and opportunities of New Hampshire Seceding from the Union. Also, might look into putting a steering committee together to determine the direction this action might take or not.
See you then,
Christopher and Liesbeth Gronski

http://evite.me/H98Zb9zYcT  "

For those who don't know him Christopher is an old friend of the free staers and I think was at the first NH liberty event I ever attendetd when I arrived in 2004.  At that time I think he was with We The People.   

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNmYWJ-WvF4

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 08, 2016, 04:09 PM NHFT
most excellent .... if somehow we can attend, I will rsvp .... don't know how that goes in Slovinian

after NH secedes ... how fast will our english become very peculiar or different from other parts of the soon to be?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 09, 2016, 08:47 AM NHFT
 I think I will start copying most of my posts from the FB group...here.   Might make this look like a ridley echo chamber but at least that way the info can be found later if needed. Here are today's...
 
---

'Right now we have one problem that is good to have: There are enough active volunteers that I'm having trouble individually thanking everyone for stuff they're doing. Please accept this group-directed thank you to all of you who are doing stuff in the meantime. It's really valued!'

--

' Just received this by email in response to my request for a report on how things looked/felt at the Windham, NH Trump speech:
"running to a ballgame.
2,000 inside Trump speech. 100 degrees inside. NO A/C at the new high school. Scott Brown spoke 45 minutes first.
200 had Trump tix but firemarshall closed the door. Lines started at noon for 8:30 pm speech. Those outside watched live link on NH! news. There were a lot of diehard Latino and other Trump fans very bummed to not get in.
Next Gen did a protest their website says against Trump. I saw 3 1 yr old boys and 1 get thrown out from front row indoors, for maybe going to cause trouble later. They died it, but I knew they were not supporters. they had the cold eyes" '

--

'Our allies at Laconia had concerns about the press yesterday.  I tend to think liberty folk are lucky to have media attending whether they got their facts straight or not.  Generally they should be welcomed and treated with transparency.  You may want to record your interactions with them, openly...and upload.  Here's my article on how to deal press.      http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=1421.0 '



 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 09, 2016, 10:23 AM NHFT
that is one confusing section in the middle

as it gets bigger, maybe the NHexit activism will split in smaller geographic sections or something
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 09, 2016, 11:05 AM NHFT
that is one confusing section in the middle

as it gets bigger, maybe the NHexit activism will split in smaller geographic sections or something

   
  Micro nations ?  But, but, the roads.  (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 09, 2016, 02:28 PM NHFT
yea baby
how small can we go?

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: K neth on August 10, 2016, 12:15 PM NHFT
Secession down to the last man!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on August 10, 2016, 07:56 PM NHFT
Secession down to the last man!
Yeah, the one left can be the "Imperial ME", like Peter Sellers was in, Carol for Another Christmas
(https://free-classic-tv-shows.com/History/1964-12-28-Carol-For-Another-Christmas/Peter-Sellers-as-Imperial-Me.jpg)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on August 10, 2016, 10:54 PM NHFT
Watch it for free here: https://free-classic-tv-shows.com/History/1964-12-28-Carol-For-Another-Christmas/index.php

and be sure to record/save it if you like it, because when it was put up on YouTube a couple of years ago, it got taken down in short order.

Written by Rod Serling.  I saw it first run - and only run - in 1964.  It sat, "in the can" for 48 years before it was broadcast for just the second time in 2012, and now it is shown once a year.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 12, 2016, 10:02 AM NHFT
Copy-pastes of my posts on the Facebook discussion group:

----

' Carla you are president of NHIndependence.org, which means you have the power to strike at the root of our problems. Please exercise that power! Do stuff! Unless there's some obvious reason not to, we'll support your activity!

To: Ana Stanic (redacted)@(redacted)
Ana: In answer to your question about the status of the NH independence movement, it's good to try and quantify things numerically if possible...rather than subjectively. This is going to be a little out of control in terms of length, but:
Reuters reports that roughly 24% of U.S. Americans favor independence for their states.
http://blogs.reuters.com/…/one-in-four-americans-want-thei…/
The number is lower in New England overall, but I don't think a scientific poll has yet been conducted of libertarian-leaning New Hampshire specifically. A non-scientific poll by New Hampshire's top newspaper, the Union Leader, concluded with 41% of responses favoring independence. That was the week after the Brexit...and a scientific poll would surely show the numbers to be much lower.
There are three entirely-secessionist organizations here averaging probably about three years in age.
NHIndependence.org
The NH Liberty Party https://www.facebook.com/NHLibertyParty/?fref=ts
and my own NHexit.com
The first two have received some media coverage reaching an audience of perhaps one-and-a-half million globally in their lifetimes. The Liberty Party is running someone for governor in the Democrat primary, not very actively campaigning and polling under 4%.
The number and size of media articles mentioning NHexit is perhaps 80 percent documented at
http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php…
...reaching an audience of perhaps 15 million globally in its lifetime.
However turnout at NHexit demonstrations is usually disappointing even by the standards of little New Hampshire, averaging about 8 per event... NHIndependence.org gets much better turnout by holding panels and speeches at libertarian conferences, perhaps three per year. Because of the Free State Project, NH has a constant trickle of incoming libertarian political migrants. Almost all of these favor secession...about 1700 are officially listed as having migrated to the state for the purpose of affecting change here. Most of these anti-Federal dissidents are not directly involved in independence efforts, but their number of "active activists" is comparable to that of the Republican Party. They tend to operate outside the system or run as Republicans and Democrats.
FreeTalkLive.com, an outspokenly pro-secession radio broadcast from NH, reaches an audience of perhaps 100,000 Americans per day and, in its own version of the Mladina incident, was raided by Federal police this year. The courts seem to be interfering in favor of Free Talk Live, however. The Federal "Secret Service" essentially had me arrested in 2011 for filming interviews near the Vice President's speech ("criminal trespass" was the charge). A judge found me not guilty.
https://freeconcord.org/…/not-guilty-verdict-in-ridley-tre…/
NH, as you may be aware, has various other similarities to 20th century Slovenia...hilly, pleasant tourist destination, peaceful, ethnically homogeneous (for better or worse), richest/freest/most successful part of the country, sends a lot more to the central government than it gets back, part of a Federal "nation" arguably in a state of slow collapse, subsidizes poor southern states, has roughly 1.4 million population, international border, tiny coastline, similar geographical size. Polling indicates New Hampshirites are generally (perhaps inappropriately) content with their state government. But our state system does not really allow for referendums generally, only for constitutional amendments. Those have to receive a 2/3 majority from the voters.
I guess you must have been a teenager or younger in the late 80s... but you perhaps you saw enough to have a sense how 1988-era Slovenia would compare with what I've described above (hopefully without to much partiality). What did *you* see and hear, then Ana? Do you have any advice for us? Do you ever travel to the U.S? You'd be a great speaker to have at one of the free stater events. Past speakers have included Ron Paul and Gary Johnson, but they like to have speakers who aren't necessarily libertarian: http://FreeStateProject.org
Dave Ridley
http://RidleyReport.com
New Hampshire's #2 YouTube channel

One in four Americans want their state to secede from the U.S., but why?
For the past few weeks, as Scotland debated the wisdom of independence, Reuters has been asking Americans how they would feel about declaring independence…
BLOGS.REUTERS.COM
6 Likes2 Comments
LikeCommentShare


Our allies at Laconia had concerns about the press yesterday. I tend to think liberty folk are lucky to have media attending whether they got their facts straight or not. Generally they should be welcomed and treated with transparency. You may want to record your interactions with them, openly...and upload. Here's my article on how to deal press.
"Our Local Media Relations" article

http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=1421.0 '
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 12, 2016, 11:02 PM NHFT
Secession down to the last man!

 Yes.   

Either you own yourself or somebody else does.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 15, 2016, 07:31 PM NHFT
Our longtime and valued friend Chris Gronski has scheduled an event for exiters and given me the ok to publish it generally:

"NHExit BBQ and Pot Luck
Host:Christopher & Liesbeth Gronski Phone: 603-671-8069
When: Saturday, September 3 at 3:00 PM
Where: The Gronski Home 168 Murray Hill Road
Hill, NH 03243"

Yayyy!

Also from Chris:


"If you can put this on there or a link to the invitation, that would be good...  You can arrive at 3:00 PM. Dinner will start at 5:00 PM and the fun will end at Midnight.
Please Bring:
1.) Lawn Chairs
2.) A Canopy (If you have one)
3.) Something to throw on the grill
4.) A Dish to SHARE
5.) BYOB
6.) Bring a Friend
7.) Sweater, Jacket or warm clothes for cool evening
Please RSVP (Let us know you’re planning to attend or not) If we do not know you are coming we’ll assume you’re not. Please arrive on time so we can eat together.
We’ll need extra lawn chairs, 1-3 folding tables and maybe 1-3 extra grills. Let us know if you can bring any of these.
We’ll be doing a Bonfire so bring S’mores if you like.
Christopher Gronski will do a short talk on the Historical, Legal, Financial, social and political challenges and opportunities of New Hampshire Seceding from the Union. Also, might look into putting a steering committee together to determine the direction this action might take or not.
See you then,
Christopher and Liesbeth Gronski"


Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 15, 2016, 07:53 PM NHFT
I bet it will be fun.
It will also connect the faithful and leave out the trolls, by meeting together :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 17, 2016, 11:56 AM NHFT
Copy-pastes of my recent posts from the NHexit Facebook discussion group (so I can find them in the future)

' Should John Best be banned from the NHexit discussion forum? If at least 2/3rs of the people voting "yes" or "no" ...cast a yes vote by roughly aug 16, then the following will happen. I will comply with the will of the supermajority, and ban him. I will abstain from the voting. Only yes and no votes count...my preference would be that you don't add more options to this particular poll even though you probably have the power.


+24

Yes

+10

No


Dave Ridley created a poll.
21 hrs
As indicated in the "should we ban John Best" poll... Best lost on Aug 16....18 votes to 8. I complied and banned. But...now I'd like to know on a scale of 1 to 5 how you feel about my handling of that issue. And what do you think should be done differently next time we have calls to block someone?


Enemies/trolls/detractors should have as much free speech on this discussion board as we can give practically give them. My instinct would be to run it like my YouTube channel (which means they get MORE free speech than is practical). But this is different since all of you have preferences. Some people trigger overwhelming demands for their removal, and failing to listen to those demands means losing good participants. Several of you have indicated a desire to see John Best banned from this discussion group. There's no written policy or anything regarding when to do that. Why don't each of you, including you John, lay out your case why you think he should stay or be kicked out? I'm thinking after that we'd have a vote, requiring a 2/3 majority of respondents required to dump him. I'd also welcome feedback regarding this approach to "trolls"....do you think it's appropriate? Too tolerant? To controlling?


Dave Ridley
August 13 at 10:21pm
What if we were to get a friendly state rep to submit a CACR which would simply remove roughly the second half of [Art.] 7.from the NH Constitution? The last word of that article is currently "assemble" and the amendment would make it so that it ends instead at "pertaining thereto." I've been hearing arguments that voting in favor of such a change might violate the oath which reps take to the U.S. Constitution...could someone explain which part of that Constitution (if any) they might be violating if they they voted in favor of the CACR I'm describing?
Here's how [Art.] 7. is currently worded "The people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent state; and do, and forever hereafter shall, exercise and enjoy every power, jurisdiction, and right, pertaining thereto, which is not, or may not hereafter be, by them expressly delegated to the United States of America in congress assembled."  '

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 17, 2016, 03:31 PM NHFT
I bet it will be fun.
It will also connect the faithful and leave out the trolls, by meeting together :)

I can't wait to hear how someone painted themselves blue and showed up naked, screaming "THEY CAN NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOOOOOOOOM!!!"
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 17, 2016, 05:27 PM NHFT
I asked Joël Valenzuela for suggestions on what elements he thinks we need, to move forward.  He sent this and authorized me to publicize it for him.  It seems like a sound suggestion.

"In order to achieve results, you need a results-driven campaign. This means long-, mid-, and short-term goals, with clearly leadership roles
In short, this will need a lot of work, and most people currently showing up don't want to work, just make some noise and feel special

If you want it to be successful, once you've identified your goals and leadership positions, you'll need to put in the work to identify all your supporters, collect their info in an easily accessible database (including which events they've helped out with and which ones they've skipped), and keep growing that list as you individually reach out to each and every person you expect to show up at any given rally"
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 17, 2016, 06:04 PM NHFT
I bet it will be fun.
It will also connect the faithful and leave out the trolls, by meeting together :)

I can't wait to hear how someone painted themselves blue and showed up naked, screaming "THEY CAN NEVER TAKE OUR FREEDOOOOOOOOM!!!"

That will get press coverage!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 17, 2016, 06:27 PM NHFT
I asked Joël Valenzuela for suggestions on what elements he thinks we need, to move forward.  He sent this and authorized me to publicize it for him.  It seems like a sound suggestion.

"In order to achieve results, you need a results-driven campaign. This means long-, mid-, and short-term goals, with clearly leadership roles
In short, this will need a lot of work, and most people currently showing up don't want to work, just make some noise and feel special

If you want it to be successful, once you've identified your goals and leadership positions, you'll need to put in the work to identify all your supporters, collect their info in an easily accessible database (including which events they've helped out with and which ones they've skipped), and keep growing that list as you individually reach out to each and every person you expect to show up at any given rally"

I like Joel, however this is like the early days of the Abolitionist's efforts. First steps are for people to realize the possibilities. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 17, 2016, 08:04 PM NHFT
agreed
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 17, 2016, 08:45 PM NHFT
I asked Joël Valenzuela for suggestions on what elements he thinks we need, to move forward.  He sent this and authorized me to publicize it for him.  It seems like a sound suggestion.

"In order to achieve results, you need a results-driven campaign. This means long-, mid-, and short-term goals, with clearly leadership roles
In short, this will need a lot of work, and most people currently showing up don't want to work, just make some noise and feel special

If you want it to be successful, once you've identified your goals and leadership positions, you'll need to put in the work to identify all your supporters, collect their info in an easily accessible database (including which events they've helped out with and which ones they've skipped), and keep growing that list as you individually reach out to each and every person you expect to show up at any given rally"

I like Joel, however this is like the early days of the Abolitionist's efforts. First steps are for people to realize the possibilities.

Yes, but just because a crowd is small and uncertain doesn't mean you can't try to organize them a bit.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 18, 2016, 06:41 AM NHFT
I asked Joël Valenzuela for suggestions on what elements he thinks we need, to move forward.  He sent this and authorized me to publicize it for him.  It seems like a sound suggestion.

"In order to achieve results, you need a results-driven campaign. This means long-, mid-, and short-term goals, with clearly leadership roles
In short, this will need a lot of work, and most people currently showing up don't want to work, just make some noise and feel special

If you want it to be successful, once you've identified your goals and leadership positions, you'll need to put in the work to identify all your supporters, collect their info in an easily accessible database (including which events they've helped out with and which ones they've skipped), and keep growing that list as you individually reach out to each and every person you expect to show up at any given rally"

I like Joel, however this is like the early days of the Abolitionist's efforts. First steps are for people to realize the possibilities.

Yes, but just because a crowd is small and uncertain doesn't mean you can't try to organize them a bit.

In the words of Russell... "You should do that."

My view is that instead of telling folks that they need to model their effort like the big boys do, the way I have seen work the best is to lead from the front. Say, "I'm going to do those and so." Others will then decide if they want to follow or maybe they will initiate actions themselves. Out of this spontaneous order leadership is demonstrated. As opposited to the quagmire of artificially creating a leadership hierarchy. Also avoiding the danger of "Who is the leader here." Which is what the cops are always doing to hang responsibility on one person for others actions.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 18, 2016, 09:37 AM NHFT
Copy-pastes of my recent posts from the NHexit Facebook discussion group (so I can find them in the future)

' Should John Best be banned from the NHexit discussion forum? If at least 2/3rs of the people voting "yes" or "no" ...cast a yes vote by roughly aug 16, then the following will happen. I will comply with the will of the supermajority, and ban him. I will abstain from the voting. Only yes and no votes count...my preference would be that you don't add more options to this particular poll even though you probably have the power.


+24

Yes

+10

No


Dave Ridley created a poll.
21 hrs
As indicated in the "should we ban John Best" poll... Best lost on Aug 16....18 votes to 8. I complied and banned. But...now I'd like to know on a scale of 1 to 5 how you feel about my handling of that issue. And what do you think should be done differently next time we have calls to block someone?


Enemies/trolls/detractors should have as much free speech on this discussion board as we can give practically give them. My instinct would be to run it like my YouTube channel (which means they get MORE free speech than is practical). But this is different since all of you have preferences. Some people trigger overwhelming demands for their removal, and failing to listen to those demands means losing good participants. Several of you have indicated a desire to see John Best banned from this discussion group. There's no written policy or anything regarding when to do that. Why don't each of you, including you John, lay out your case why you think he should stay or be kicked out? I'm thinking after that we'd have a vote, requiring a 2/3 majority of respondents required to dump him. I'd also welcome feedback regarding this approach to "trolls"....do you think it's appropriate? Too tolerant? To controlling?


Dave Ridley
August 13 at 10:21pm
What if we were to get a friendly state rep to submit a CACR which would simply remove roughly the second half of [Art.] 7.from the NH Constitution? The last word of that article is currently "assemble" and the amendment would make it so that it ends instead at "pertaining thereto." I've been hearing arguments that voting in favor of such a change might violate the oath which reps take to the U.S. Constitution...could someone explain which part of that Constitution (if any) they might be violating if they they voted in favor of the CACR I'm describing?
Here's how [Art.] 7. is currently worded "The people of this state have the sole and exclusive right of governing themselves as a free, sovereign, and independent state; and do, and forever hereafter shall, exercise and enjoy every power, jurisdiction, and right, pertaining thereto, which is not, or may not hereafter be, by them expressly delegated to the United States of America in congress assembled."  '


Regarding article 7 changes etc.



When it reads this, it will be closer to being philosophically correct,  "the INDIVIDUAL people of this state have the sole and exclusive right, etc. "

Until that right is known and established as normal, we're sort of flailing in the branches. 





Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 18, 2016, 10:41 AM NHFT
and that is what Ridley is doing with NHexit .... some of us can follow. If others don't like the way he works .... they can work on another secession project. :)
getting a bunch of secessionist to work together seems even harder than libertarians :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 18, 2016, 02:46 PM NHFT
and that is what Ridley is doing with NHexit .... some of us can follow. If others don't like the way he works .... they can work on another secession project. :)
getting a bunch of secessionist to work together seems even harder than libertarians :)

If secessionists secede from other secessionists it provides evidence they are committed to their cause(s).  (smiley emoticon)


Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 18, 2016, 04:00 PM NHFT
and that is what Ridley is doing with NHexit .... some of us can follow. If others don't like the way he works .... they can work on another secession project. :)
getting a bunch of secessionist to work together seems even harder than libertarians :)

If secessionists secede from other secessionists it provides evidence they are committed to their cause(s).  (smiley emoticon)

You're not a True Secessionist unless you live by yourself in the woods and never talk to anyone except to tell them to stop oppressing you.  :D
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 18, 2016, 05:08 PM NHFT
and that is what Ridley is doing with NHexit .... some of us can follow. If others don't like the way he works .... they can work on another secession project. :)
getting a bunch of secessionist to work together seems even harder than libertarians :)

If secessionists secede from other secessionists it provides evidence they are committed to their cause(s).  (smiley emoticon)

You're not a True Secessionist unless you live by yourself in the woods and never talk to anyone except to tell them to stop oppressing you.  :D

Hey, that's almost me.  ;D
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 18, 2016, 05:40 PM NHFT
and that is what Ridley is doing with NHexit .... some of us can follow. If others don't like the way he works .... they can work on another secession project. :)
getting a bunch of secessionist to work together seems even harder than libertarians :)

If secessionists secede from other secessionists it provides evidence they are committed to their cause(s).  (smiley emoticon)

You're not a True Secessionist unless you live by yourself in the woods and never talk to anyone except to tell them to stop oppressing you.  :D

Hey, that's almost me.  ;D

You're almost a True Secessionist! :P
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 18, 2016, 09:36 PM NHFT
see ... if you say that ... Tom assumes you have been watching him
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 19, 2016, 12:13 AM NHFT
see ... if you say that ... Tom assumes you have been watching him

And?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 19, 2016, 06:13 AM NHFT
I'm not paranoid... Who said I'm paranoid! Was it Johnson, I knew I couldn't trust him... Why did I trust him, why did I trust any of ya'll anyway! I shouldn't have even got this dang internet thingie! Ya know they record everything we say here. Mutter, mutter, mutter...


Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 19, 2016, 07:51 AM NHFT

 Recent banter has caused me to wonder if an Independent State of NH  (oxymoronic, I know) would have the same spy on the people programs as the Feds?   Would NH people still have to get felt up at Manchester Airport ? 

 Would NH invade Vermont (steal their Kale?)  and pilfer Maine's lobsta or would it have a non foreign intervention policy ? (there's nothing worth stealing from Mass. )

 What would NH use as currency and could it be something that held value ? 

 Also if NH seceded, it could field it's own Olympic team and we could likely win a metal in the cardboard sled race and gain all that international prestige. 
 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 19, 2016, 10:00 AM NHFT
hey speaking of the olympics .... we could do pretty decent in skiing
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 19, 2016, 12:07 PM NHFT
the whole spying on everyone thing is a matter of scale. Sure, there are fewer people in NH than in the U.S. as a whole, but it's still a great big bunch of people. It would be prohibitively expensive.

Oh, speaking of which, in the event of an NHexit, everyone needs to be very watchful in the political arena and jump on any talk or attempts to start an NH central bank. That would be bad.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 19, 2016, 05:14 PM NHFT
I heard it is happening next year.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 19, 2016, 07:18 PM NHFT
to follow tradition we could elect a President like these guys did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tree_Riot
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 19, 2016, 08:23 PM NHFT
to follow tradition we could elect a President like these guys did.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pine_Tree_Riot

Cool story, can you imagine the charges they would levy against people for attacking the Sheriff and Deputy?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Mark D. Jacobsen on August 19, 2016, 09:17 PM NHFT
Here is some historical context from my neck of the woods.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jefferson_(proposed_Pacific_state)
featuring:
"On November 27, 1941, a group of young men gained national media attention when, brandishing hunting rifles for dramatic effect, they stopped traffic on U.S. Route 99 south of Yreka, the county seat of Siskiyou County, and handed out copies of a Proclamation of Independence, stating that the state of Jefferson was in "patriotic rebellion against the States of California and Oregon" and would continue to "secede every Thursday until further notice."

also that this movement's final nail was ww2. Interestingly the would be state of Jefferson was attacked during ww2. No conspiracy here move along.

see
Japanese plane bombs Oregon coast
http://arcweb.sos.state.or.us/pages/exhibits/ww2/threat/bombs.htm

If separation happens, expect the worst. Look at what Sherman and his mercenaries did in the south.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 19, 2016, 10:31 PM NHFT
yea .... these are the things we have been discussing here for a while
9/11 cut down the FSP momentum at the time, then it had to build up again.
if any secession talk gains traction, we will be punished
if any actually separation starts occurring, I would expect war
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 20, 2016, 12:46 AM NHFT
yea .... these are the things we have been discussing here for a while
9/11 cut down the FSP momentum at the time, then it had to build up again.
if any secession talk gains traction, we will be punished
if any actually separation starts occurring, I would expect war

What do you mean, expect?
last time I checked, we all already had a bunch of guys with guns running around locking people up, extorting them, and occasionally killing them. The only thing that might change would be if they decided it was serious enough to escalate. Then the question just becomes how hot do they want to make it on american soil?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 20, 2016, 08:20 AM NHFT
I think it can get worse
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 20, 2016, 09:36 PM NHFT
I think it can get worse

Of course it can get worse. Where have you been the last fifteen years?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 20, 2016, 11:03 PM NHFT
hmmm let's see
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 20, 2016, 11:55 PM NHFT
My point being it's been doing nothing but getting worse for the last few decades, and I see no reason for it to suddenly stop just because I'd prefer that it do so.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 21, 2016, 08:29 AM NHFT
of course
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 22, 2016, 02:51 AM NHFT
But who knows. Maybe I'm just a pessimist. I've been twitchy and very doomy gloomy lately, due to the feeling I'm not going to make it out there before everything starts crumbling down.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 22, 2016, 11:45 AM NHFT
But who knows. Maybe I'm just a pessimist. I've been twitchy and very doomy gloomy lately, due to the feeling I'm not going to make it out there before everything starts crumbling down.


 You are being a pessimist, but we can fix that. 

We'll just pass a law "no crumbling down" until Erroneous_Logic arrives in the Shire.   
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 22, 2016, 11:58 AM NHFT
Yeah, but I don't think a law would work. Plus, it would be morally unsound to forcefully prevent other people from crumbling stuff that they can legally crumble.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 22, 2016, 09:35 PM NHFT
this is crazy talk .... we all know that shire laws always work
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 22, 2016, 11:50 PM NHFT
this is crazy talk .... we all know that shire laws always work

But the -morality- of it! You would forcefully deny individuals the right to crumble that which is certainly within their right to crumble?!!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 23, 2016, 04:40 AM NHFT
Apple crumble.... Mmmmmm.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 23, 2016, 09:30 AM NHFT
we have strict rules here in The Shire ... no crumbling by people ... only bread by our winsome womenfolk
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 23, 2016, 10:16 AM NHFT
we have strict rules here in The Shire ... no crumbling by people ... only bread by our winsome womenfolk

Goodness, no crumble? I might have to rethink moving, if there's no apple crumble.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 23, 2016, 01:46 PM NHFT
we have strict rules here in The Shire ... no crumbling by people ... only bread by our winsome womenfolk

Goodness, no crumble? I might have to rethink moving, if there's no apple crumble.


There was an Apple Fest, but rumor has it, it might have crumbled.  As soon as the scape goat committee finishes the preliminary investigation, we'll know for sure. 

 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Becky Thatcher on August 23, 2016, 02:34 PM NHFT
we have strict rules here in The Shire ... no crumbling by people ... only bread by our winsome womenfolk

Or dog stomp pie! :piecon: And sticky buns!
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 23, 2016, 05:50 PM NHFT
this is crazy talk .... we all know that shire laws always work

But the -morality- of it! You would forcefully deny individuals the right to crumble that which is certainly within their right to crumble?!!

Maybe you haven't seen this one.

https://youtu.be/EfdrTaRpYog
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 23, 2016, 07:51 PM NHFT
That's a nice contrast to the rocks and dirt and racism we have down here.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Tom Sawyer on August 23, 2016, 08:15 PM NHFT
That's a nice contrast to the rocks and dirt and racism we have down here.

I liked the high desert well enough, but the low desert is just hell.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 23, 2016, 08:20 PM NHFT
I've lived here too long, and it's pretty much ruined me for desert of any type. I want water and plants and snow.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 24, 2016, 08:53 AM NHFT
well step right up then son ... Graffy has just the thing for you.

oh how about a new country flag with Graffy the Happy Pond Creature
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 24, 2016, 11:20 AM NHFT
Does Graffy give loans?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 24, 2016, 02:22 PM NHFT
we will have to ask him
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 25, 2016, 10:53 AM NHFT
Does Graffy give loans?


 No, but he has a friend that's a loan shark. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on August 25, 2016, 11:18 AM NHFT
Yeah,  can't afford loan sharks.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: andy1337 on August 29, 2016, 07:01 PM NHFT
Hi guys. I've been out of the loop for a while. Here's the latest.
I've been emailing several Brexiteers, on the basis that if they're in favour of independence once, they'd be in favour of it everywhere.
Sorry to report, they aren't.
Some of them don't care about anything outside the UK. Some of them are now Trump people (especially the UKIP guys). Some of them are fairly pure Libertarians and in favour of secession in principle, but aren't going to touch NHexit because they think it's either too controversial or too remote.
I did try. And I'm still happy to talk about the project. But it doesn't seem that the Brexiteers are going to be much help.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 29, 2016, 09:15 PM NHFT
that is not surprising to me.
Our independence would be very different than a scheduled vote on staying in a trade agreement.
I would think it could be like Republicans voting to get out of Nafta or some such. They won't then care about Catalonia seceding from Spain.
Maybe we can get the Texiters to leave .... and we can sneak out on the side.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Free libertarian on August 29, 2016, 10:28 PM NHFT
that is not surprising to me.
Our independence would be very different than a scheduled vote on staying in a trade agreement.
I would think it could be like Republicans voting to get out of Nafta or some such. They won't then care about Catalonia seceding from Spain.
Maybe we can get the Texiters to leave .... and we can sneak out on the side.

 ..."and we can sneak out on the side"     Good one.  (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 30, 2016, 12:03 PM NHFT
think of the insanity if enough people in Texas want out after Hillary? they wouldn't even notice if liddle ol NH left
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on August 30, 2016, 04:54 PM NHFT
andy thanks a lot for the follow up... i don't think anyone else who volunteered to make contacts with exiters... has done even 2/3rds thirds as much as you in that regard.    It seems normal that Brexiters would want to focus mostly on Britain.... just like we focus mostly on NH.  Can you think of some NHexit related activism you could do that would be less speculative?   For example if you post about us somewhere then you are guaranteed at least a certain number of people would see it.     As usual if you go to http://NHexit.com there is a link to the "how to help" list.  I hope you will take another look and see if there is something else there which you'd enjoy doing...because I'd hate us to lose a volunteer who actually does what he says he'll do.  Fairly rare in any volunteer group.





Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on August 30, 2016, 05:51 PM NHFT
very true
and with fellow americans ... you will get plenty of positive responses. :)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on September 23, 2016, 02:41 AM NHFT
Since they'd be hard to find in the future otherwise... here are copies of my messages posted to NHexit's facebook discussion group between Aug 20 and Sept 11.

Okay: So the poll I put up indicates decisive support for the idea of requesting a re-introduction of HCR 6 in the New Hampshire State House (it would be assigned a new number presumably).
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/2178229/posts
In other words, it beat out all the other legislative options I'm aware of. My first choice would have been a constitutional amendment, but I should probably defer to the will of the masses. The next step will be finding a state rep who's willing to submit it. I was thinking of doing that myself, but instead I think I will test the rest of you to see how dedicated you are to this. I'm requesting volunteers to find us a rep who is willing to resumit the bill. If I can't at least get that, then it would be an indicator we are not capable of surpassing HCR6's level of success.

I'm sorry to say that Joe Roux...who's from NH, who joined this discussion and had a post here a couple weeks go... has passed away. NHFree.com has a post that indicates he "died after partying." Hopefully a good way to go. He was an ever-encouraging and enthusiastic local supporter of the liberty migrants.

I didn't see this until way later but apparently someone did get active for us on Reddit.... ty whoever it was!
https://www.reddit.com/r/newhampshire/comments/4spgyq/nh_independence_celebration_nhexit/

Mentioned NHexit activist Ian Freeman's run secession-oriented run for governor on WCRN-AM today.

Looks like the Gronski event was a success... can someone post a summary or vid and what do you folks think we should do next?


Dave Ridley
August 31 at 11:27am
Again: My understanding is ANY state rep who was elected or relected.... can submit a bill this coming november. Plz correct me if i'm wrong because there is a november deadline and a september deadline... i want to make sure we don't have to meet the september deadline.

It seems like there are abou four paths open to us when it comes to approaching the legislature with an independence type bill/CACR/resolution.
1) Remove (via CACR) the section of NH Constitution article 7 which authorizes powers to be delegated to the Feds. This would require a 2/3rds vote by the public and would have to pass the legislature first.
2) Get someone to re-introduce HCR 6 from 2009. It came modestly close to passing then and was based on the Kentucky Resolutions. It also created a 300 person rally and a near-riot in the House balcony when the Dem legislature failed to pass it.
3) Get someone to forward a bill that establishes a study committee tasked with determining the feasability of independence or something along those lines.
4) Some other option - can you name it?
Which of these do you like best? How can they be improved on?


Dave Ridley shared NH Exit's event.
August 20 at 10:53am
Thanks to Chris Gronski for setting up this event, which I am now copying to Facebook with his blessing so you can send invites! https://www.facebook.com/events/1849519621937547/

Dave Ridley
August 20 at 5:08pm
Msg. for Jim McConnell RE: O Conte expansion
From: Dave Ridley
Today 5:06 PM
To: Jim.McConnell@(redacted)
Rep. McConnell:
Chris Rietmann gave me your name, and I recently saw on YouTube your appearance on Rock Paper Hand Grenades where you talked about the O Conte National Wildlife Reserve. I'd like to help spread the word about the concerns folks have with its proposed expansion. Can you name for me, say, the three most spectacular outrages or directives you've witnessed thus far in this process (for instance, were you the one claiming that an official ordered you not to pick more than a quart of blueberries per year)?!
Although I do run RidleyReport.com it's more likely that I would spread the word by calls to talk radio. If you do know of any occasions/locations where perpetrating politicians/bureaucrats will be at public events, you could let me know in advance, and I might try to interview some of them with my camera.
Dave Ridley
NHexit.com

Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 23, 2016, 02:51 PM NHFT
I think it is fun having the crossover from various exit groups online from Texas, us, and Brexit
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on October 16, 2016, 12:23 PM NHFT
Here is the letter I'm sending to the man in charge of the nearest Russian consulate, at New York.  A day or two after posting it on the FaceBook discussion group for feedback.  The "???" is this forum software's inability to process Russian letters and translates as "Sorry; I speak badly in Russian."

Also, what are some specific follow up options or scenarios that might be viable if this actually gets traction?

"NHexit.com open letter to Igor L. Golubovskiy

Dear Mr. Golubovskiy:
????????, ? ?? ?????? ??-?????? ??????. As you're already aware, informal contacts played an important role defusing tensions during the Cuba/Turkey Missile crisis. This was perhaps world-saving at a time when many were pushing to "fight" instead of "jaw." During the 1999 bombing of Yugoslavia, Montenegro's partial and increasing independence arguably helped Montenegrins make the case that NATO should not be targeting buildings on their territory. Now there is an attempt by Washington to reduce diplomacy at a time when diplomacy is most needed. And there is an attempt within U.S. states to separate themselves from D.C., somewhat like Montenegro sought to distinguish itself from Milosevic. Texans have advanced the furthest toward independence, but placid New Hampshire is probably in the top three on this metric stateside.

This is the New Hampshire independence movement's attempt to reach out to you - warily and without acceptance of your government's actions. There is a scenario we would like to spark with our very limited powers, one that would benefit all humanity (but also your government) if half successful.

In the movie "By Dawn's Early Light" there is a scene where a U.S. bomber flying toward Russia...makes a course change. The Russians reciprocate by turning some of their aircraft; ultimately Armageddon is averted. NH independence advocates have already "made the slight course change" by advocating for the dissolution of the empire which threatens both you and NH. We have our own reasons for wanting that and our own ideas for protecting ourselves against you as needed. But perhaps 15 million worldwide have heard us make the case for independence...an objective which should ultimately limit America to legitimate defense.

We'd like to request that your government make a tiny course change of its own, specifically: Allowing the Crimean journalist Mykola Semena to receive medical treatment on the Ukrainian mainland or perhaps in New Hampshire. Granting it and citing us as the reason for doing so would have the following advantages for you, indicating to the world that:

1) Moscow may listen and respond humanely to reasonable requests, when those requests come from overseas independence movements rather than unfriendly expansionist governments.
2) U.S. independence movements are a force to be taken seriously - American states can undermine or outmaneuver Washington overstep just as Estonia once undermined Moscow.
3) D.C. unnecessarily escalating the conflict with Russia could backfire by growing these movements.
4) U.S. independence movements are potentially better at dealing with you than D.C. is.
5) The direction of the current conflict is not entirely toward escalation...other things are happening.

Lastly, it provides the possibility of constructive follow-up action...of a scenario unfolding that would tend to benefit average Americans and Russians. For now this first step is the one that matters.

You can find more details about this request and how it came about...via our website.

Yours,

Dave Ridley
NHexit.com

P.S.: If the details can be worked out, I'd be happy to serve as a hostage myself at a location of your government's choosing while Semena is outside Crimea, presumably helping to guarantee his return."
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on October 16, 2016, 12:26 PM NHFT
The ???? stuff above is this forum software failing to print Russian letters.  It would be translated:  "Sorry; I speak Russian badly."
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 16, 2016, 04:55 PM NHFT
hmmm
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on December 02, 2016, 09:45 AM NHFT
Called in to WCRN-AM this morning for their call-about-anything segment, mentioned NHexit, the LPNH vote in favor of NH secession and the fact that it triggered an article in the Globe. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on February 07, 2017, 07:45 AM NHFT
Still quite a bit going on via the FB discussion forum (get there by visiting http://NHexit.com)
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on February 09, 2017, 10:10 AM NHFT
I was thinking yesterday that I have not been promoting this enough. I think fb steers me away from nhexit somehow.
Always a good idea
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on March 23, 2017, 03:19 PM NHFT
maybe one problem can solve the other.  if you can post independence content to the nhexit facebook group, that will help. .....

its listed at  nhexit.com
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 23, 2017, 10:04 PM NHFT
In Vegas today. I can almost see the border of the new country California from here.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on September 19, 2017, 12:40 AM NHFT
Did my first youtube interview about NHexit in Mandarin last week :)  Although...only a small part was in Mandarin.  will post it here eventually...unless I forget... or die...  oh hell here it is:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRu_3rFukEc 

I've been bringing it up a lot on New England talk radio.   The facebook group for it is now pretty self sufficient and active with or without me. Dyer may submit a secession bill at Concord.   But other than that not much is going on. 
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 27, 2017, 08:40 AM NHFT
have there been any other secession movements in NH besides the Indian Stream Republic?
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on September 27, 2017, 08:08 PM NHFT
have there been any other secession movements in NH besides the Indian Stream Republic?

I'm pretty sure Mel Thompson headed up one.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 24, 2017, 02:11 PM NHFT
they are planning a meetup on 11/15 I think .... let me double check
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 24, 2017, 04:47 PM NHFT
yes nov 15th at the The Red Blazer Restaurant Concord
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1056520281105982/events/
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Dave Ridley on November 11, 2017, 12:50 PM NHFT
called free talk live to mention the meetup and also the FNHI folks' plan to do an independence expedition to Catalonia.    Sorry I don't post here more, it's letting me in a lot more reliably now.
Title: Re: NHexit.com discussion
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 23, 2017, 10:09 PM NHFT
I wonder how many went to the meeting