New Hampshire Underground

Insufferable Peppiness and Gloating => Insufferable Peppiness and Gloating => Topic started by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 11:38 AM NHFT

Title: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 11:38 AM NHFT
The libertarian movement often seems to be made up of a lot of Chicken Littles.

I had a friend that has a long time involvement with the movement and he helped me to be less pessimistic by telling me "... I see a bright and shining future." He then laid out all the positive progress he has seen and showed future likely scenarios . I appreciate him helping break me from the "death cult" of doom view.

Here is a place to count some blessings.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 11:44 AM NHFT
Union Leader of New Hampshire Endorses Gary Johnson Over Donald Trump

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/15/us/politics/gary-johnson-union-leader-endorsement.html?_r=0
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 12:50 PM NHFT
I'm pretty sure the sky is falling. While, on the plus side, we're definitely not getting another clinton presidency, we -are- going to end up, most likely, with a trump presidency, all the while the economy is getting ready to take a massive dump of historical proportions.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 01:48 PM NHFT
Looking at the small bumps up and down on the curve is not a good indicator of the bigger trends.

My friend pointed out in the late 60s they couldn't gather 10 "libertarians" in one place. Sorry you're not happy in the desert. But, unlike the past there are more options... make it happen.   :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 01:53 PM NHFT
I would love to make it happen. Pretty sure my best case scenario is going to involve driving 2600 miles through a region suffering from the biggest economic struggle in recorded history since the collapse of the british empire. Much fun.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 02:04 PM NHFT
I would love to make it happen. Pretty sure my best case scenario is going to involve driving 2600 miles through a region suffering from the biggest economic struggle in recorded history since the collapse of the british empire. Much fun.

Indians aren't going to attack you.  ;D You aren't going to be walking beside your wagon.

As to the economic conditions...
Like my buddy Johnson says "I'm not worried till I see the skinny people."

We are freer in many ways than when when we freer. Back in the day we would not be having this conversation. You couldn't use bit coin to buy pot online. The list goes on.

It is a product of the folks selling others on how bad things are, that they are , but we do too much of the "Oh no! Another abuse by the gooberment."

As to the Presidential political circus...
I say good. The republican party is imploding and the democrats aren't far behind. Whoever "wins" the election is going to face a lot of bickering and gridlock.

It's got to get bad to get better.

Nature doesn't create straight lines, lots of curves and unexpecteds ahead. Some will be bad, but like the Berlin Wall coming down, marijuana being legalized some are good. In the long run it won't be the Orwellian "a boot stomping on a human face for ever."

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 02:10 PM NHFT
I'm not worried about indians attacking me in my covered wagon, I'm worried about cash strapped cops attacking me in my busted ass taurus right before the engine falls out in the middle of nowhere.

And as far as the economic conditions and skinny people. . .

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/09/new-survey-shows-teen-girls-are-trading-sex-work-for-food.html (http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/09/new-survey-shows-teen-girls-are-trading-sex-work-for-food.html)

And as for the presidential thing, yeah, I'm not worried too much about it, beyond the standard "oh we're getting a new one who's going to be just as bad as the last one" sense. But that's not really a -good- thing, ya know
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 15, 2016, 02:48 PM NHFT

And as far as the economic conditions and skinny people. . .

http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/09/new-survey-shows-teen-girls-are-trading-sex-work-for-food.html (http://nymag.com/thecut/2016/09/new-survey-shows-teen-girls-are-trading-sex-work-for-food.html)


That's nothing new.... there's a reason it's called the oldest profession.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 03:14 PM NHFT
Not the sex work. the idea that more and more of them are doing it for -food-. not for money to buy food. Just for -food-. that's new.
Anyway, we have different perspectives, and we probably aren't going to back and forth each other out of them. So let's just say, wait until the end of the month :P
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 15, 2016, 04:25 PM NHFT
Not the sex work. the idea that more and more of them are doing it for -food-. not for money to buy food. Just for -food-. that's new.
Anyway, we have different perspectives, and we probably aren't going to back and forth each other out of them. So let's just say, wait until the end of the month :P

If I do wait until the end of the month, what happens at the end of next month?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 04:27 PM NHFT
The highway robbers are a threat. The fact that you are aware is one step closer to safe.

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 04:50 PM NHFT
The highway robbers are a threat. The fact that you are aware is one step closer to safe.

Being aware that a bullet is traveling towards you at over 2000 feet per second does not help you stop it from popping your head.

If I do wait until the end of the month, what happens at the end of next month?

The end of this month will be quite unmemorable. Good news, at that point, we'll be close to the fed no longer mattering.

I have all of this from a very reliable Time Monk whom I trust very much
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 05:21 PM NHFT
The highway robbers are a threat. The fact that you are aware is one step closer to safe.

Being aware that a bullet is traveling towards you at over 2000 feet per second does not help you stop it from popping your head.

Not knowing that someone might shoot at you is worse than knowing there is a threat and figuring out your best strategy for limiting the threat.

I've driven over 300,000 miles without a license. I am well aware of the threats.  :)

Daytime travel, pick a holiday weekend. Odds are in your favor.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 05:29 PM NHFT
Not knowing that someone might shoot at you is worse than knowing there is a threat and figuring out your best strategy for limiting the threat.

I've driven over 300,000 miles without a license. I am well aware of the threats.  :)

Daytime travel, pick a holiday weekend. Odds are in your favor.


Be careful with that advice. Make sure you mention to avoid the popular drinking holidays like new years and 4th of july.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 05:52 PM NHFT
Not worried about sobriety checkpoints during daylight hours on the interstate.  :)

Of course the border patrol checkpoints in your area suck. We even have that up towards the Canadian border. I have my secret route to miss it. Get to cross a covered bridge and take in the scenery.

This is the Polly Anna, upbeat, there is always a way thread. Lots of people have gone through a lot worse situations then we have to deal with. They should give us courage to face the smaller threats we deal with.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 06:18 PM NHFT
I know. That's why I'm here. I have lots of difficulty being upbeat and sometimes I trick myself into thinking that being around upbeat people will help. And keep in mind that I'm not worried about cops pulling me over -today-, (actually I am because no insurance), I'm concerned about cops pulling me over during rough times when they're looking for cash or anything else they can steal, not because they feel entitled, but because they're at the point where they actually -need- it in a very real way.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on September 15, 2016, 06:28 PM NHFT
Johnson thinks Lorne Greene sold Allepo dog food.  Sorry folks, but countless millions are dead because we, or at least, the US Supreme Court and Ralph Nader, elected a flunkie who didn't even know there was any such thing as Shiites and Sunnis.  It is disgraceful that a political party - if the Libertarian Party even deserves that status with a capital L and P - offers a candidate for the Presidency who doesn't have the brains to at least get a brief tutorial on foreign policy.

This may backfire on the Libertarian Party.  A lot of people see Trump as the last, best hope to "blow it all up and start over again".  We already did that in Iraq, Egypt and Libya, and now in Syria.   If you think that simply taking down the system paves the way for a new and better system, forget about it. The only benefit that Russians get from the end of the old Soviet Union is that they are now free to leave it.

Fortunately, Johnson can draw enough votes away from Trump so that he loses in the general election (I hope).  I will be voting this November for the second worst Presidential candidate ever to have represented one of the two major political parties in the United States history.  After that, I will surely be supportive of efforts of Congress to do things that she will oppose, if it can muster the will to do so, and then hope for a better primary process in 2019 and 2020.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 15, 2016, 06:56 PM NHFT
Nah. It's a 98% bet that trump will win. But really, the president won't matter. It's all coming tumbling down soon. My Time Monk friend's words are sometimes confusing and difficult to interpret, but on this it's pretty straightforward.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 09:13 PM NHFT
Who wins the election is of little matter to me.

Trump has torn apart the R's, Hillary has alienated many from the D's. Neither one will be able to get much done because of the horrible partisan divide.

I watched Gary Johnson on The View...Gary Johnson goes on The View (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NlDgh6WM-Cc)
I was greatly encouraged by the dynamic he can seize upon. The Aleppo stumble is one of the better things to happen for his campaign. Watch how the two dinosaurs, Whoopie and Joy, can't figure out why he is appealing to the younger hosts. Partisan politics is the problem and the solution is a guy like him. He's not going to win the election, but his percentage proves the appeal of this new (to most people) direction.

I heard an interview with him on NPR. Many of the things that a lot of libertarians are bitching about his watered down version of libertarianism is his asset. Does anyone think that policy wonks and purity people are the way the presidential race is run?  ;D

The young black woman on The View was all smiles and said he was kind of like Bernie. That's a good thing. Anti-intervention, pro-pot, and anti-corporatism... with a side of limited government please. In the sound bite world of television you don't have a hour to explain the more fringe (from mainstream) details of libertarianism.

We could attack someone that is getting some traction and moving toward the goals, or we could be all gloomy and teardown the good for the dream of the perfect.

A bright and shining future... after a turbulent wild ride. What else has history ever given people. Remember the Berlin Wall? Before we realized it was over... It was knocked down and then Roger Waters had an awesome concert where a bunch of counter culture artists performed "The Wall". It's not our parents world, it's our world... if we have the balls to seize the opportunities. Unless we are stupid enough to only see the short term and ask for the lesser of two evils.

In the cannabis movement the old guard were willing to beg for crumbs... "We'll never see pot sold in stores." 3 years later it was happening in multiple states. I even bitch about that it's not enough because of the tax and regulate model... But, damn let's push for more instead of "It will never work, we're doomed!" We should not be the obstacle. Have enough faith and hope that someone else starts hoping too. I've done it a few times and 30 years later got to see that some of the young ones we fostered effected real change.

Sunny day on the mountain today... life is too short to give up on my son's future.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on September 15, 2016, 09:40 PM NHFT
They sky fell a long time ago.

Good luck trying to fix the world.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 15, 2016, 10:20 PM NHFT
They sky fell a long time ago.

Good luck trying to fix the world.

I'm not fixing the world.
I'm just saying we are not necessarily doomed.

As you grow cannabis legally for a living... in 1987 you would have never imagined such a thing possible in that relatively short time frame.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 16, 2016, 07:08 AM NHFT

   Even if the sky WAS falling, why worry?  It's only made of air.   Now nuclear fallout and debris, well, that's a little different.   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 16, 2016, 07:13 AM NHFT

   Even if the sky WAS falling, why worry?  It's only made of air.   Now nuclear fallout and debris, well, that's a little different.

Nice to live upwind of NYC.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 16, 2016, 07:23 AM NHFT
Fall is the best time of year weather wise for me, I feel 47 again.  (trying to positive here)   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 16, 2016, 09:17 AM NHFT
Fall is the best time of year weather wise for me, I feel 47 again.  (trying to positive here)

Ahhh, to be 47 again.    ;D

It is my favorite time of year as well. Pleasant weather, no bugs, ya don't sweat. Looks like another beautiful day.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 16, 2016, 12:08 PM NHFT
They sky fell a long time ago.

Good luck trying to fix the world.

I'm sure you mean 1916, during an actual plague.... or the 1903's, during an actual economic crisis.
Even the 1970's can laugh at what's currently happening.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 16, 2016, 01:00 PM NHFT
They sky fell a long time ago.

Good luck trying to fix the world.

I'm sure you mean 1916, during an actual plague.... or the 1903's, during an actual economic crisis.
Even the 1970's can laugh at what's currently happening.

Heh. There hasn't been such economic imbalance as the U.S. is experiencing right now in recorded history. This is because, until the last few hundred years, humanity lacked the technology to effect such an imbalance in the first place. Before the advent of automobiles, it was very difficult to effectively extend economic control more than a day's travel outside a city. Now, if someone is engaging in 'improper' commerce, perhaps violating a granted monopoly, enforcers can be there in minutes or hours. Before the invention of modern communications technology, it could take days or weeks for economic information to travel from one city to another. Now, the actions of the fed can have very immediate ripple effects on the other side of the world, within hours or even minutes.
So, when this all falls down, it's gonna be interesting.
Fortunately, human beings tend not to just lie down and starve to death in the absence of their normal source of income and nutrition, and people will start actively searching for ways to sustain themselves reasonably quickly once that happens. :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 16, 2016, 02:49 PM NHFT
They sky fell a long time ago.

Good luck trying to fix the world.

I'm sure you mean 1916, during an actual plague.... or the 1903's, during an actual economic crisis.
Even the 1970's can laugh at what's currently happening.

Heh. There hasn't been such economic imbalance as the U.S. is experiencing right now in recorded history. This is because, until the last few hundred years, humanity lacked the technology to effect such an imbalance in the first place. Before the advent of automobiles, it was very difficult to effectively extend economic control more than a day's travel outside a city. Now, if someone is engaging in 'improper' commerce, perhaps violating a granted monopoly, enforcers can be there in minutes or hours. Before the invention of modern communications technology, it could take days or weeks for economic information to travel from one city to another. Now, the actions of the fed can have very immediate ripple effects on the other side of the world, within hours or even minutes.
So, when this all falls down, it's gonna be interesting.
Fortunately, human beings tend not to just lie down and starve to death in the absence of their normal source of income and nutrition, and people will start actively searching for ways to sustain themselves reasonably quickly once that happens. :)

 Thank you for the reminder.  I gotta get some Cannibal repellant. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 16, 2016, 05:06 PM NHFT
some good cannibal repellant brands are 7.62 mm and .45 cal
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on September 16, 2016, 05:46 PM NHFT
The libertarian movement often seems to be made up of a lot of Chicken Littles.

Indeed. Some just think they're Johnny rebels ("Whattaya got?") -- whatever is winning is what they're against. The same people griping about Johnson/Weld would be bitching if the ticket were Harry Browne and Ron Paul. I think the real source of their anger is their cognitive dissonance: they have decided that there is some perfect balance between minarchism and anarchism, and they're going to stand astride a fulcrum that doesn't actually exist and shake their fists at everyone who is a nanometer to either side.

Pragmatism is inexcusable as a substitute for philosophy, but even the purist philosophy requires a pragmatic way to get from here, to there. If it doesn't, it's just an excuse to complain that we're not there yet.

I'm an anarchist because I don't believe that government is necessary. I'm a libertarian because I believe that it's inevitable.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 16, 2016, 07:02 PM NHFT
I'm an anarchist because I don't believe that government is necessary. I'm a libertarian because I believe that it's inevitable.

That's a rather gloomy outlook.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on September 17, 2016, 05:55 PM NHFT
I'm an anarchist because I don't believe that government is necessary. I'm a libertarian because I believe that it's inevitable.

That's a rather gloomy outlook.

It's even gloomier than you can probably even conceive of right now.

But I can say I'm much happier after accepting reality for what it is.

That doesn't mean I give up, that just means I'm through with thinking changing anything about government is going to make a difference. Palliative care is for the dying.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 17, 2016, 06:03 PM NHFT
some good cannibal repellant brands are 7.62 mm and .45 cal

 But are they organic ?   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 21, 2016, 07:27 PM NHFT
The libertarian movement often seems to be made up of a lot of Chicken Littles.

I had a friend that has a long time involvement with the movement and he helped me to be less pessimistic by telling me "... I see a bright and shining future." He then laid out all the positive progress he has seen and showed future likely scenarios . I appreciate him helping break me from the "death cult" of doom view.

Here is a place to count some blessings.
after all that .... the best you can do is "maybe the sky isn't falling"? wow what a Polyanna
btw didn't we have a thread or section of the forum for that ?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 21, 2016, 08:14 PM NHFT
The highway robbers are a threat. The fact that you are aware is one step closer to safe.
I survived 2 inspections the last 2 days
whew
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 21, 2016, 08:15 PM NHFT
I've driven over 300,000 miles without a license. I am well aware of the threats.  :)

Daytime travel, pick a holiday weekend. Odds are in your favor.
the DOT stations are often closed on weekends and at night
during holidays they seem to give up on us and go after the drunk drivers
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 21, 2016, 08:17 PM NHFT
Indeed. Some just think they're Johnny rebels ("Whattaya got?") -- whatever is winning is what they're against. The same people griping about Johnson/Weld would be bitching if the ticket were Harry Browne and Ron Paul. I think the real source of their anger is their cognitive dissonance: they have decided that there is some perfect balance between minarchism and anarchism, and they're going to stand astride a fulcrum that doesn't actually exist and shake their fists at everyone who is a nanometer to either side.
I can see that
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 21, 2016, 08:27 PM NHFT
I feel like I should clarify. I'm not worried about police so much right now at this moment. I'm worried about them in the near future, when the treasury market goes nuts and the dollar pukes its guts all over the place and everything gets weird and difficult for average people, financially speaking.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 21, 2016, 08:45 PM NHFT
I feel like I should clarify. I'm not worried about police so much right now at this moment. I'm worried about them in the near future, when the treasury market goes nuts and the dollar pukes its guts all over the place and everything gets weird and difficult for average people, financially speaking.

Hurry up and get here then.  ;D

I think there is a lot more wealth for them to inflate away.

Government is a parasite... a good parasite don't kill the host.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 21, 2016, 08:55 PM NHFT
Hurry up and get here then.  ;D

I think there is a lot more wealth for them to inflate away.

Government is a parasite... a good parasite don't kill the host.

who said the government is a GOOD parasite? They're just as bad as viruses.
And you can think all you want, bonds are about to drop, while the yields go through the roof. Fed's going to freak out, panic, try at least three ridiculous 'solutions', and at that point, I think there won't be anyone left who cares what the fed does any more.

and i'm really trying. Pretty much everything I've got saved up is going into a new vehicle(that's a prerequisite, no way I'm trusting my hunk of junk that far), and at that point, I'm going to have a few dribs and drabs left over. So, let me know when you want to donate :P
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 21, 2016, 09:20 PM NHFT
never forget
"Maybe the sky ain't fallin"
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 21, 2016, 11:35 PM NHFT
Maybe. I have yet to see any supporting evidence, though :P
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 26, 2016, 05:47 PM NHFT
So, who's excited to watch the markets go nutso tomorrow? :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 26, 2016, 05:55 PM NHFT
So, who's excited to watch the markets go nutso tomorrow? :)

Why are the markets going nuts tomorrow?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 26, 2016, 07:19 PM NHFT
So, who's excited to watch the markets go nutso tomorrow? :)

Why are the markets going nuts tomorrow?

Inquiring minds want to know.

When Erroneous_Logic talks people listen.

And other trademarked tag lines.  :D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 26, 2016, 08:34 PM NHFT
Because they've been winding up for it for the last fifty years, obviously. :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 26, 2016, 08:59 PM NHFT
Because they've been winding up for it for the last fifty years, obviously. :)

What's been happening since 1966?

"winding up for it"... is that a baseball thing or clock thing?

Who are "they"?

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 26, 2016, 09:29 PM NHFT
 As an aside, but nearly relevant...Why do people say "meteoric rising" ?  Don't meteors descend and crash to the ground ?   

 I'd also like to know if a falling asteroid qualifies as "the sky is falling"  ? I need some help here, can I get a ruling on this?

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 26, 2016, 10:26 PM NHFT
A falling asteroid does indeed qualifies as "the sky is falling".

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 26, 2016, 11:09 PM NHFT
A falling asteroid does indeed qualifies as "the sky is falling".

Dear Judge Sawyer,

The phrase 'The Sky is Falling' refers to an absurdity, in which harm can come from nothingness.

Meteors fall out the sky.... they are not part of the sky.

.....and the phrase 'Meteoric Rise' refers to the likeness of a meteor to a firework.

 :raspberry:
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 27, 2016, 07:55 AM NHFT
A falling asteroid does indeed qualifies as "the sky is falling".

  "Scuse me while I kiss the asteroid"  - Jimi Hendrix takes a fatal lyric wrong turn and remains obscure
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 27, 2016, 12:30 PM NHFT
Johnson is like the Shell Answer Man. Either that or he is Mr. Google.

I really wish Solar Bob could refrain from revealing Jimi's private life.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: dalebert on September 27, 2016, 12:57 PM NHFT
Ugh. When people make posts like that on Facebook, it's called Vaguebooking. I don't know what it's called here but it's just as annoying.

Okay, I'll bite. What is it about tomorrow specifically that marks the end of this 50 year amp up to insanity?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 27, 2016, 01:03 PM NHFT
Well, today now. It was tomorrow yesterday. hey, anyone notice how Deutsche Bank is down 10%?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 27, 2016, 02:39 PM NHFT
Well, today now. It was tomorrow yesterday. hey, anyone notice how Deutsche Bank is down 10%?

That's not new.

What was supposed to happen today?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 27, 2016, 02:46 PM NHFT
It's new that it's down ten percent in the last two days. But anyway, let's see how all the treasury auctions go today. supposed to be nearly $100 billion :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 27, 2016, 03:08 PM NHFT
So is this connected to the two idiots in the debates?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 27, 2016, 03:10 PM NHFT
Well, it could be. The appearance of Hillary doing well in the presidential race would cause treasury prices to rise while yields fall, because people will believe she would(of course) continue the trend of near zero interest rates. Conversely, if people believe Donny, who has given indications of -not- maintaining that trend, is coming out on top, prices would likely go down while yields rise.

Mostly, I think the bubbles just about ready to hug the cactus of reality.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 27, 2016, 03:32 PM NHFT
(https://scontent-lga3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14519768_1624923951133602_3660963881816209698_n.jpg?oh=06b84543d9c2839da6d7b692b995e53e&oe=58AD6497)

Clinton wins debate? How about Neither wins debate.   ;D

Things are going our way. By that I mean the two major parties are imploding.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 27, 2016, 03:48 PM NHFT
Exactly. And since the interest rates are entirely a political thing at the moment, dual party implosions will confuse the hell out of them and they won't know which way to jump.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 27, 2016, 06:50 PM NHFT
if the german bank goes down .... is that a vote of confidence for Brexit

meteoric rise ..... so true
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 27, 2016, 07:03 PM NHFT
I wouldn't say it's so much a vote of confidence for Brexit as it is a vote of 'haha see that's what HAPPENS you silly keynesians trololol'
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 27, 2016, 07:11 PM NHFT
well ya know what they say
maybe the sky isn't falling
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 27, 2016, 07:31 PM NHFT
Perhaps. Short term treasuries are showing indications that the market is preparing for an interest rate hike.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 27, 2016, 07:52 PM NHFT
do you want the stock market to go up or down?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 27, 2016, 08:19 PM NHFT
I want the stock market to disconnect itself from politics and central banks.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 28, 2016, 08:17 AM NHFT
One way to avoid a falling sky, would be to legislatively rename the action of a falling sky, then it never happened, it just becomes something else.   

"The only thing sure thing in life is death and taxes and umm, pieces of the atmosphere descending..everybody knows that"  - A generic Politician   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 28, 2016, 08:30 AM NHFT
They make their living by telling you the sky is falling, that it is the other sides fault and only they can prevent it.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: K neth on September 28, 2016, 02:46 PM NHFT

Everything is a matter of your perception. 

From the sky's perspective, it is ground that's rising up.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 28, 2016, 03:04 PM NHFT
Uh oh spaghetti-o, opec agreed to limit oil production and now all the short term treasuries are sliding down. Everyone get on the slide :P
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 28, 2016, 07:27 PM NHFT
oh my. It's all gearing up to go splat.

From http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/saudi-arabia-ways-hit-back-911-lawsuit-effort-42419542 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/saudi-arabia-ways-hit-back-911-lawsuit-effort-42419542)

Quote
Saudi Arabia and its allies are warning that U.S. legislation allowing the kingdom to be sued for the 9/11 attacks will have negative repercussions.

The kingdom maintains an arsenal of tools to retaliate with, including curtailing official contacts, pulling billions of dollars from the U.S. economy, and persuading its close allies in the Gulf Cooperation Council to scale back counterterrorism cooperation, investments and U.S. access to important regional air bases.

"This should be clear to America and to the rest of the world: When one GCC state is targeted unfairly, the others stand around it," said Abdulkhaleq Abdullah, an Emirati Gulf specialist and professor of political science at United Arab Emirates University.

"All the states will stand by Saudi Arabia in every way possible," he said.

That, plus the fact that there's probably going to be a huge exit from the USD when the Chinese Yuan gets added to the SDR basket on friday, as well as the signals that the U.S. treasuries market is spitting out spells bad things, both for the U.S. gov and the U.S. economy.

I really sincerely hope that everyone has their rice and beans tucked away somewhere.


Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 28, 2016, 08:29 PM NHFT
oh my. It's all gearing up to go splat.

From http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/saudi-arabia-ways-hit-back-911-lawsuit-effort-42419542 (http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/saudi-arabia-ways-hit-back-911-lawsuit-effort-42419542)

Quote
Saudi Arabia and its allies are warning that U.S. legislation allowing the kingdom to be sued for the 9/11 attacks will have negative repercussions.

The kingdom maintains an arsenal of tools to retaliate with, including curtailing official contacts, pulling billions of dollars from the U.S. economy, and persuading its close allies in the Gulf Cooperation Council to scale back counterterrorism cooperation, investments and U.S. access to important regional air bases.

"This should be clear to America and to the rest of the world: When one GCC state is targeted unfairly, the others stand around it," said Abdulkhaleq Abdullah, an Emirati Gulf specialist and professor of political science at United Arab Emirates University.

"All the states will stand by Saudi Arabia in every way possible," he said.

That, plus the fact that there's probably going to be a huge exit from the USD when the Chinese Yuan gets added to the SDR basket on friday, as well as the signals that the U.S. treasuries market is spitting out spells bad things, both for the U.S. gov and the U.S. economy.

I really sincerely hope that everyone has their rice and beans tucked away somewhere.

I guess I'm just glad that aren't going to cut our heads off. Great bunch.

Kissing their asses in the past was a big mistake... all so the oil companies could benefit. I guess oil production in the USA will be coming back up online soon.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 28, 2016, 08:32 PM NHFT
Quote
Obama had vetoed the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act, or JASTA, arguing that allowing U.S. courts to waive foreign sovereign immunity could lead other foreign governments to act "reciprocally" by giving their courts the right to exercise jurisdiction over the U.S. and its employees for overseas actions. These could include deadly U.S. drone strikes and abuses committed by U.S.-trained police units or U.S.-backed militias.

Probably as it should be. Maybe Dubyah can be tried for his war crimes.  ;D Right next to Obama.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 28, 2016, 08:40 PM NHFT
You know that's never going to happen unless we, as a society, reach a point where it won't matter any more.

The point is, though, grab your socks because soon they'll be $100 a pair.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 28, 2016, 09:21 PM NHFT
You know that's never going to happen unless we, as a society, reach a point where it won't matter any more.

The point is, though, grab your socks because soon they'll be $100 a pair.

So are you going to invest in socks? Seems like a great opportunity.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on September 28, 2016, 09:43 PM NHFT
So is this connected to the two idiots in the debates?

(https://media.giphy.com/media/l0HlFSmOQqi2uUp56/giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 28, 2016, 10:18 PM NHFT
Nah. I'm putting my money into bitcoin and beans and new car funds.

And the treasuries thing right now might be mildly related to the two idiots being idiotic at each other, one being in favor of continuing the current fed policy(treasuries go up) and the other being in favor of some mystical policy that causes rates to both go down and up at the same time(treasuries instantaneously blip into an alternate dimension and start breeding with mutant rabbits), but when the saudi's start dumping treasuries in retribution for being sued over 9/11, that's what's going to really tip the boat over.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on September 28, 2016, 11:59 PM NHFT
The United States is the Saudis biggest benefactor. Their selling off US Treasuries would be shooting themselves. They'll have to suck it up like anyone else caught in the US "Justice System".
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 29, 2016, 12:29 AM NHFT
lol. no they don't. they have half of the middle east at their back, and the u.s. is starting to become more and more obvious about their ability to kick ass on the other side of the world as long as you're not a rich country with actual military power. Plus, even odds that russia backs them just to poke us in the eye. And even if we -did- glass parking lot the entire place, it would be too late, cause the economic damage would be done already.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 29, 2016, 08:31 AM NHFT
lol. no they don't. they have half of the middle east at their back, and the u.s. is starting to become more and more obvious about their ability to kick ass on the other side of the world as long as you're not a rich country with actual military power. Plus, even odds that russia backs them just to poke us in the eye. And even if we -did- glass parking lot the entire place, it would be too late, cause the economic damage would be done already.

Not being critical of you here, but when you say "we" above, ("even if we -did- glass parking lot" etc.) I bet you really mean "they".     

 I make a conscious effort to correct my own conditioned uses of words and sometimes catch myself using the wrong terms too.  For instance they aren't "my taxes", they are "their taxes" .  It's funny the looks you get from people when you use the proper terms, but it can sometimes create interesting conversations too. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on September 29, 2016, 11:34 AM NHFT
You got the meaning that I was conveying, which is the most important part and the point of words existing. :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 29, 2016, 10:11 PM NHFT
and "They" made you do it :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on September 30, 2016, 07:45 AM NHFT
You got the meaning that I was conveying, which is the most important part and the point of words existing. :)

  Sure, I agree with you, your word sin doesn't deserve a severe beating. So I put away my wet noodle.

 My point was more an observation of how an intelligent person  like you, and sometimes many of us (me included) are trained to use words the way they want us to, which is to say, inaccurately.   

 "They" intend the meanings of words can shift based on who is doing something, rather than being based on the action being done.    For instance, if you or I do it, it's murder, if "they" do it, it's collateral damage.

If you or I do it, it's theft, if they take without permission it's called something else etc.

When they / we do this repetitively it gets ingrained  in the common lexicon and it helps them build illogical, but commonly believed bridges to creating a false normal.    I may not be normal, and part of that is because I reject commonly used but false meanings.   Until more people examine and talk about that, "we" remain fucked, so to speak.




Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 01, 2016, 06:57 AM NHFT
We reject the cliche that a citizen who chooses a principled third-party candidate is squandering his or her vote.
— Chicago Tribune Editorial Board


http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-gary-johnson-president-endorsement-edit-1002-20160930-story.html

While the media piles on Johnson for another Aleppo moment. Another large mainstream newspaper endorses the Libertarian candidate.
What's the Ghandi quote... first they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they attack you, then you win. Libertarian ideas are making great gains into the mainstream market of ideas. Johnson isn't the one. But, he is carrying the ball down the field.

All the criticism is gaining a larger audience that is now exposed to the idea/option of libertarianism.

The smug, sneering, Lefty commentators realize he is popular with the younger audience. And is a threat to Hillary. So all the right wing leaning libertarian hand wringing over the left leaning libertarians... the left leaning ones steal votes from the left, which is a good thing.

If you allow the media manipulators to create the context of what they report you come away with the narrative they want to establish. For example, "Johnson is an idiot that doesn't know some detail." But, observing without the bias, you get the message that he is the only candidate that recognizes and acknowledges that we armed ISIS and the current mess with our desire to have "regime change in Syria".

Our ideas are making progress into the wider world. Lots of reasons to be optimistic. In fact it's necessary to seize upon the opportunities being created.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: jerryswife on October 01, 2016, 09:30 AM NHFT
You got the meaning that I was conveying, which is the most important part and the point of words existing. :)

  Sure, I agree with you, your word sin doesn't deserve a severe beating. So I put away my wet noodle.

 My point was more an observation of how an intelligent person  like you, and sometimes many of us (me included) are trained to use words the way they want us to, which is to say, inaccurately.   

 "They" intend the meanings of words can shift based on who is doing something, rather than being based on the action being done.    For instance, if you or I do it, it's murder, if "they" do it, it's collateral damage.

If you or I do it, it's theft, if they take without permission it's called something else etc.

When they / we do this repetitively it gets ingrained  in the common lexicon and it helps them build illogical, but commonly believed bridges to creating a false normal.    I may not be normal, and part of that is because I reject commonly used but false meanings.   Until more people examine and talk about that, "we" remain fucked, so to speak.

Many (most) people are limited in their thinking by their limitations in vocabulary and inability to conceive of ideas they don't have words for.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 01, 2016, 09:41 AM NHFT
You got the meaning that I was conveying, which is the most important part and the point of words existing. :)

  Sure, I agree with you, your word sin doesn't deserve a severe beating. So I put away my wet noodle.

 My point was more an observation of how an intelligent person  like you, and sometimes many of us (me included) are trained to use words the way they want us to, which is to say, inaccurately.   

 "They" intend the meanings of words can shift based on who is doing something, rather than being based on the action being done.    For instance, if you or I do it, it's murder, if "they" do it, it's collateral damage.

If you or I do it, it's theft, if they take without permission it's called something else etc.

When they / we do this repetitively it gets ingrained  in the common lexicon and it helps them build illogical, but commonly believed bridges to creating a false normal.    I may not be normal, and part of that is because I reject commonly used but false meanings.   Until more people examine and talk about that, "we" remain fucked, so to speak.

Many (most) people are limited in their thinking by their limitations in vocabulary and inability to conceive of ideas they don't have words for.



Good point.   That's why we need more wordologists to create the words and take back the words that have been stolen.

  Worda Claus ?   My 4th personality?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: dalebert on October 01, 2016, 01:43 PM NHFT
The end of this month will be quite unmemorable. Good news, at that point, we'll be close to the fed no longer mattering.

OMG, he was right!

https://cointelegraph.com/news/moneros-bubble-pops-price-plummets-as-currency-loses-top-five-ranking
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 02, 2016, 01:07 AM NHFT
The end of this month will be quite unmemorable. Good news, at that point, we'll be close to the fed no longer mattering.

OMG, he was right!

https://cointelegraph.com/news/moneros-bubble-pops-price-plummets-as-currency-loses-top-five-ranking

I almost jumped out a window. Dang that was close.

The sun will rise tomorrow and I will smile.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 02, 2016, 02:55 AM NHFT
Goodness. It would take something a bit more meaningful than treasury yields to affect whether or not the sun rises.
I'm not too worried about the monero thing. It's just the hype bubble. It happens to lots of currencies. Happened to bitcoin the first time it halved. It'll dip, and then rediscover the proper price and continue on like nothing happened. oh btw bitcoin jumped up about $10-15 since friday, very very suddenly.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 03, 2016, 07:12 PM NHFT
reading this thread helped talk me off the ledge
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 03, 2016, 07:14 PM NHFT
we are spending the night in a sleepy little Amish town in NE Indiana. They said last weekend was their biggest for tourists. Now we can hear the clop clop clop of the tall sleek horses. :)
We pick up Dollar General fixtures in the morning.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 03, 2016, 08:20 PM NHFT
(http://i2.wp.com/freekeene.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/13256097_1751503995063182_393613851935002922_n1.jpg)
The Sky is Falling!
Chicken Little for President

A couple of minor points...

If Johnson/Weld are elected I probably will think of it as a victory and totally celebrate like it's 1999!
Of course that is slightly more likely to happen than Darryl walking down the street waving in his Inaugural Parade.

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 03, 2016, 08:32 PM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 03, 2016, 09:27 PM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.

Jim is playing fiddle while Rome burns!

If you replace the fiddle with a banana split.. and the Roman Empire with the US Empire.

How can you do happy things like noshing on ice cream when there is so much to worry about?

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 03, 2016, 09:55 PM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.

Jim is playing fiddle while Rome burns!

If you replace the fiddle with a banana split.. and the Roman Empire with the US Empire.

How can you do happy things like noshing on ice cream when there is so much to worry about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg

You'll find what you look for in life.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 03, 2016, 10:13 PM NHFT
so true
if we get anyone but Hillary I am pleasantly surprised
if we get those 2 I would be happy and intrigued

these LP guys take themselves way to seriously .... leave that to those of us that tilt at windmills

oh btw I support Perry for President of New NH
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 03, 2016, 10:57 PM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.

Jim is playing fiddle while Rome burns!

If you replace the fiddle with a banana split.. and the Roman Empire with the US Empire.

How can you do happy things like noshing on ice cream when there is so much to worry about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg

You'll find what you look for in life.


Everybody looking for something... indeed.

So Jimmy do you want to be abused by Annie Lennox? I would have probably gone along back in the day.  ;D

I got to video her at Williams College graduation. I'm sure she doesn't remember me.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 03, 2016, 11:14 PM NHFT
Reason writes...
 Does the Road to the White House Run Through Gary Johnson's New Mexico? (http://reason.com/blog/2016/10/02/does-the-road-to-the-white-house-run-thr)

Quote
The idea of Johnson winning New Mexico and the two major-party candidates stalling out short of 270 is of course incredibly unlikely. But it is worth thinking about, especially for those of us who stubbornly refuse to buy into the false "binary choice" narrative being pushed by both Republicans and Democrats. Change needs to be seen as possible before it takes place, right? Sometimes change comes in big, revolutionary waves. Other times, it comes from a small but steady rivulet of water that hollows out seemingly impregnable structures. However awful the 21st century has been so far to many of us, it is far worse for established ideologies and political parties, who are really taking it on the chin. The question is, what's the smallest victory it will take to show just how weak and foundering our political duopoly really is?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 03, 2016, 11:40 PM NHFT
 ;D ;D ;D
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14563505_1399400293421624_7042757176943298339_n.jpg?oh=6a7df85fc6c2e35455e02b62fd52b16d&oe=587A3180)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 04, 2016, 12:18 AM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.

Jim is playing fiddle while Rome burns!

If you replace the fiddle with a banana split.. and the Roman Empire with the US Empire.

How can you do happy things like noshing on ice cream when there is so much to worry about?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qeMFqkcPYcg

You'll find what you look for in life.


Everybody looking for something... indeed.

So Jimmy do you want to be abused by Annie Lennox? I would have probably gone along back in the day.  ;D

I got to video her at Williams College graduation. I'm sure she doesn't remember me.  ;D

The cows make more sense now.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 04, 2016, 10:59 AM NHFT

I'm down to my last couple of votes...ever...honest.  I need a little help deciding though.

Vermin Supreme again or Darryl ? 

While  I sorta like Gary Johnson as being less evil and understand any attention he gets might ultimately help some people to become "real Libertarians" and an even smaller amount to become "real libertarians" I can't make myself vote for him. 
I even used my 2008 Ron Paul billboards to shore up my chicken coop, so maybe I'm like a reformed smoker who takes a drag off somebody else's cigarette from time to time. 

I think a banana split is a good idea too, so there's always that.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 04, 2016, 11:06 AM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.

Jim is playing fiddle while Rome burns!

If you replace the fiddle with a banana split.. and the Roman Empire with the US Empire.

How can you do happy things like noshing on ice cream when there is so much to worry about?

 

 But if you replace the fiddle with ice cream how will the sound come out ? 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 04, 2016, 11:10 AM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.

Jim is playing fiddle while Rome burns!

If you replace the fiddle with a banana split.. and the Roman Empire with the US Empire.

How can you do happy things like noshing on ice cream when there is so much to worry about?

 

 But if you replace the fiddle with ice cream how will the sound come out ?

Nom, nom, nom, nom...  of course.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 04, 2016, 11:18 AM NHFT

I'm down to my last couple of votes...ever...honest.  I need a little help deciding though.

Vermin Supreme again or Darryl ? 

While  I sorta like Gary Johnson as being less evil and understand any attention he gets might ultimately help some people to become "real Libertarians" and an even smaller amount to become "real libertarians" I can't make myself vote for him. 
I even used my 2008 Ron Paul billboards to shore up my chicken coop, so maybe I'm like a reformed smoker who takes a drag off somebody else's cigarette from time to time. 

I think a banana split is a good idea too, so there's always that.

I've never voted in a political election... Well, if you don't count William's race for President of the New Hampshire Underground.

I have done work in support of campaigns I thought might bring more people on board.

And of course there is the whoring myself out in DC for lots of truly evil Ds and Rs. Just another day in the video brothel. I even told a few clients, "I'll fuck ya, but I won't kiss ya."
When I went from building electronic warfare widgets to video post production I thought I was going to a cleaner use of technology and my energies. Boy, I couldn't have been more wrong. Weapons fight the wars... the video work/propaganda was helping start the wars.

Still trying to cleanse my karma.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 04, 2016, 11:21 AM NHFT
Tomorrow, I'm going to eat a Banana Split in Keene.

Jim is playing fiddle while Rome burns!

If you replace the fiddle with a banana split.. and the Roman Empire with the US Empire.

How can you do happy things like noshing on ice cream when there is so much to worry about?

 

 But if you replace the fiddle with ice cream how will the sound come out ?

Nom, nom, nom, nom...  of course.  ;D

 I can see it now, Jim doing his best Charlie Daniels rendition of  "the Devil went down to Georgia"  until the sun melts his fiddle.   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 04, 2016, 01:38 PM NHFT
I had a banana split the other day. And another one for breakfast this morning.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 04, 2016, 01:47 PM NHFT
Enjoy your banana splits while you can! Another banana apocalypse is inevitable, given that they're propagated entirely by cuttings with no genetic variation! Soon, disease will destroy the banana industry once again, and we shall lack our delicious dildo shaped fruit toppings
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 04, 2016, 02:35 PM NHFT
Enjoy your banana splits while you can!
That is the point.

Enjoy life while you can, because it will end some day. Worrying doesn't change the outcome, so you might as well enjoy what you can., while you can.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 04, 2016, 02:39 PM NHFT
And also you could try to develop a strain of bananas that -do- have seeds that are, perhaps, not super intrusive to the eating of the fruit, like butternut squash, perhaps.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 04, 2016, 02:44 PM NHFT
Enjoy your banana splits while you can! Another banana apocalypse is inevitable, given that they're propagated entirely by cuttings with no genetic variation! Soon, disease will destroy the banana industry once again, and we shall lack our delicious dildo shaped fruit toppings

Interesting note... I had heard that. However the Polly Anna view I have is that there is one heck of an incentive to come up with a different cultivar through genetic engineering.

I don't subscribe to that whole Rachel Carson "Silent Spring" we are doomed view. Because we were supposed to be poisoned already, when in fact the air is cleaner than when she wrote that book. Until man sees the consequences of actions there is not the incentive to change course.

Many people sell fear by charting a straight line... If we stay on this path look at the doom it leads to. When in fact there are no straight lines anywhere in our history or in nature.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 04, 2016, 03:01 PM NHFT
I mean, true, true, but it happened like fifty years ago, and we turned around and did the exact same thing with a new strain of bananas that tasted different. that's why bananas don't taste like banana flavoring. The variety that banana flavoring tastes like is no more.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 04, 2016, 03:06 PM NHFT
SOME PRINCIPLES OF HISTORY
 
   
   
   99. Think of history as being the sum of two components: an erratic
   component that consists of unpredictable events that follow no
   discernible pattern, and a regular component that consists of
   long-term historical trends. Here we are concerned with the long-term
   trends.
   
   100. FIRST PRINCIPLE. If a SMALL change is made that affects a
   long-term historical trend, then the effect of that change will almost
   always be transitory - the trend will soon revert to its original
   state. (Example: A reform movement designed to clean up political
   corruption in a society rarely has more than a short-term effect;
   sooner or later the reformers relax and corruption creeps back in. The
   level of political corruption in a given society tends to remain
   constant, or to change only slowly with the evolution of the society.
   Normally, a political cleanup will be permanent only if accompanied by
   widespread social changes; a SMALL change in the society won't be
   enough.) If a small change in a long-term historical trend appears to
   be permanent, it is only because the change acts in the direction in
   which the trend is already moving, so that the trend is not altered
   but only pushed a step ahead.
   
   101. The first principle is almost a tautology. If a trend were not
   stable with respect to small changes, it would wander at random rather
   than following a definite direction; in other words it would not be a
   long-term trend at all.
   
   102. SECOND PRINCIPLE. If a change is made that is sufficiently large
   to alter permanently a long-term historical trend, than it will alter
   the society as a whole. In other words, a society is a system in which
   all parts are interrelated, and you can't permanently change any
   important part without change all the other parts as well.
   
   103. THIRD PRINCIPLE. If a change is made that is large enough to
   alter permanently a long-term trend, then the consequences for the
   society as a whole cannot be predicted in advance. (Unless various
   other societies have passed through the same change and have all
   experienced the same consequences, in which case one can predict on
   empirical grounds that another society that passes through the same
   change will be like to experience similar consequences.)
   
   104. FOURTH PRINCIPLE. A new kind of society cannot be designed on
   paper. That is, you cannot plan out a new form of society in advance,
   then set it up and expect it to function as it was designed to.
   
   105. The third and fourth principles result from the complexity of
   human societies. A change in human behavior will affect the economy of
   a society and its physical environment; the economy will affect the
   environment and vice versa, and the changes in the economy and the
   environment will affect human behavior in complex, unpredictable ways;
   and so forth. The network of causes and effects is far too complex to
   be untangled and understood.
   
   106. FIFTH PRINCIPLE. People do not consciously and rationally choose
   the form of their society. Societies develop through processes of
   social evolution that are not under rational human control.
   
   107. The fifth principle is a consequence of the other four.
   
   108. To illustrate: By the first principle, generally speaking an
   attempt at social reform either acts in the direction in which the
   society is developing anyway (so that it merely accelerates a change
   that would have occurred in any case) or else it only has a transitory
   effect, so that the society soon slips back into its old groove. To
   make a lasting change in the direction of development of any important
   aspect of a society, reform is insufficient and revolution is
   required. (A revolution does not necessarily involve an armed uprising
   or the overthrow of a government.) By the second principle, a
   revolution never changes only one aspect of a society; and by the
   third principle changes occur that were never expected or desired by
   the revolutionaries. By the fourth principle, when revolutionaries or
   utopians set up a new kind of society, it never works out as planned.
   
   109. The American Revolution does not provide a counterexample. The
   American "Revolution" was not a revolution in our sense of the word,
   but a war of independence followed by a rather far-reaching political
   reform. The Founding Fathers did not change the direction of
   development of American society, nor did they aspire to do so. They
   only freed the development of American society from the retarding
   effect of British rule. Their political reform did not change any
   basic trend, but only pushed American political culture along its
   natural direction of development. British society, of which American
   society was an off-shoot, had been moving for a long time in the
   direction of representative democracy. And prior to the War of
   Independence the Americans were already practicing a significant
   degree of representative democracy in the colonial assemblies. The
   political system established by the Constitution was modeled on the
   British system and on the colonial assemblies. With major alteration,
   to be sure - there is no doubt that the Founding Fathers took a very
   important step. But it was a step along the road the English-speaking
   world was already traveling. The proof is that Britain and all of its
   colonies that were populated predominantly by people of British
   descent ended up with systems of representative democracy essentially
   similar to that of the United States. If the Founding Fathers had lost
   their nerve and declined to sign the Declaration of Independence, our
   way of life today would not have been significantly different. Maybe
   we would have had somewhat closer ties to Britain, and would have had
   a Parliament and Prime Minister instead of a Congress and President.
   No big deal. Thus the American Revolution provides not a
   counterexample to our principles but a good illustration of them.
   
   110. Still, one has to use common sense in applying the principles.
   They are expressed in imprecise language that allows latitude for
   interpretation, and exceptions to them can be found. So we present
   these principles not as inviolable laws but as rules of thumb, or
   guides to thinking, that may provide a partial antidote to naive ideas
   about the future of society. The principles should be borne constantly
   in mind, and whenever one reaches a conclusion that conflicts with
   them one should carefully reexamine one's thinking and retain the
   conclusion only if one has good, solid reasons for doing so.
   
  INDUSTRIAL-TECHNOLOGICAL SOCIETY CANNOT BE REFORMED
 
   
   
   111. The foregoing principles help to show how hopelessly difficult it
   would be to reform the industrial system in such a way as to prevent
   it from progressively narrowing our sphere of freedom. There has been
   a consistent tendency, going back at least to the Industrial
   Revolution for technology to strengthen the system at a high cost in
   individual freedom and local autonomy. Hence any change designed to
   protect freedom from technology would be contrary to a fundamental
   trend in the development of our society.
   
   Consequently, such a change either would be a transitory one -- soon
   swamped by the tide of history -- or, if large enough to be permanent
   would alter the nature of our whole society. This by the first and
   second principles. Moreover, since society would be altered in a way
   that could not be predicted in advance (third principle) there would
   be great risk. Changes large enough to make a lasting difference in
   favor of freedom would not be initiated because it would realized that
   they would gravely disrupt the system. So any attempts at reform would
   be too timid to be effective. Even if changes large enough to make a
   lasting difference were initiated, they would be retracted when their
   disruptive effects became apparent. Thus, permanent changes in favor
   of freedom could be brought about only by persons prepared to accept
   radical, dangerous and unpredictable alteration of the entire system.
   In other words, by revolutionaries, not reformers.
   
   112. People anxious to rescue freedom without sacrificing the supposed
   benefits of technology will suggest naive schemes for some new form of
   society that would reconcile freedom with technology. Apart from the
   fact that people who make suggestions seldom propose any practical
   means by which the new form of society could be set up in the first
   place, it follows from the fourth principle that even if the new form
   of society could be once established, it either would collapse or
   would give results very different from those expected.
   
   113. So even on very general grounds it seems highly improbably that
   any way of changing society could be found that would reconcile
   freedom with modern technology. In the next few sections we will give
   more specific reasons for concluding that freedom and technological
   progress are incompatible.
   
 
 
  RESTRICTION OF FREEDOM IS UNAVOIDABLE IN INDUSTRIAL SOCIETY
 
   
   
   114. As explained in paragraph 65-67, 70-73, modern man is strapped
   down by a network of rules and regulations, and his fate depends on
   the actions of persons remote from him whose decisions he cannot
   influence. This is not accidental or a result of the arbitrariness of
   arrogant bureaucrats. It is necessary and inevitable in any
   technologically advanced society. The system HAS TO regulate human
   behavior closely in order to function. At work, people have to do what
   they are told to do, otherwise production would be thrown into chaos.
   Bureaucracies HAVE TO be run according to rigid rules. To allow any
   substantial personal discretion to lower-level bureaucrats would
   disrupt the system and lead to charges of unfairness due to
   differences in the way individual bureaucrats exercised their
   discretion. It is true that some restrictions on our freedom could be
   eliminated, but GENERALLY SPEAKING the regulation of our lives by
   large organizations is necessary for the functioning of
   industrial-technological society. The result is a sense of
   powerlessness on the part of the average person. It may be, however,
   that formal regulations will tend increasingly to be replaced by
   psychological tools that make us want to do what the system requires
   of us. (Propaganda [14], educational techniques, "mental health"
   programs, etc.)
   
   115. The system HAS TO force people to behave in ways that are
   increasingly remote from the natural pattern of human behavior. For
   example, the system needs scientists, mathematicians and engineers. It
   can't function without them. So heavy pressure is put on children to
   excel in these fields. It isn't natural for an adolescent human being
   to spend the bulk of his time sitting at a desk absorbed in study. A
   normal adolescent wants to spend his time in active contact with the
   real world. Among primitive peoples the things that children are
   trained to do are in natural harmony with natural human impulses.
   Among the American Indians, for example, boys were trained in active
   outdoor pursuits -- just the sort of things that boys like. But in our
   society children are pushed into studying technical subjects, which
   most do grudgingly.
   
   116. Because of the constant pressure that the system exerts to modify
   human behavior, there is a gradual increase in the number of people
   who cannot or will not adjust to society's requirements: welfare
   leeches, youth-gang members, cultists, anti-government rebels, radical
   environmentalist saboteurs, dropouts and resisters of various kinds.
   
   117. In any technologically advanced society the individual's fate
   MUST depend on decisions that he personally cannot influence to any
   great extent. A technological society cannot be broken down into
   small, autonomous communities, because production depends on the
   cooperation of very large numbers of people and machines. Such a
   society MUST be highly organized and decisions HAVE TO be made that
   affect very large numbers of people. When a decision affects, say, a
   million people, then each of the affected individuals has, on the
   average, only a one-millionth share in making the decision. What
   usually happens in practice is that decisions are made by public
   officials or corporation executives, or by technical specialists, but
   even when the public votes on a decision the number of voters
   ordinarily is too large for the vote of any one individual to be
   significant. [17] Thus most individuals are unable to influence
   measurably the major decisions that affect their lives. Their is no
   conceivable way to remedy this in a technologically advanced society.
   The system tries to "solve" this problem by using propaganda to make
   people WANT the decisions that have been made for them, but even if
   this "solution" were completely successful in making people feel
   better, it would be demeaning.
   
   118 Conservatives and some others advocate more "local autonomy."
   Local communities once did have autonomy, but such autonomy becomes
   less and less possible as local communities become more enmeshed with
   and dependent on large-scale systems like public utilities, computer
   networks, highway systems, the mass communications media, the modern
   health care system. Also operating against autonomy is the fact that
   technology applied in one location often affects people at other
   locations far away. Thus pesticide or chemical use near a creek may
   contaminate the water supply hundreds of miles downstream, and the
   greenhouse effect affects the whole world.
   
   119. The system does not and cannot exist to satisfy human needs.
   Instead, it is human behavior that has to be modified to fit the needs
   of the system. This has nothing to do with the political or social
   ideology that may pretend to guide the technological system. It is the
   fault of technology, because the system is guided not by ideology but
   by technical necessity. [18] Of course the system does satisfy many
   human needs, but generally speaking it does this only to the extent
   that it is to the advantage of the system to do it. It is the needs of
   the system that are paramount, not those of the human being. For
   example, the system provides people with food because the system
   couldn't function if everyone starved; it attends to people's
   psychological needs whenever it can CONVENIENTLY do so, because it
   couldn't function if too many people became depressed or rebellious.
   But the system, for good, solid, practical reasons, must exert
   constant pressure on people to mold their behavior to the needs of the
   system. Too much waste accumulating? The government, the media, the
   educational system, environmentalists, everyone inundates us with a
   mass of propaganda about recycling. Need more technical personnel? A
   chorus of voices exhorts kids to study science. No one stops to ask
   whether it is inhumane to force adolescents to spend the bulk of their
   time studying subjects most of them hate. When skilled workers are put
   out of a job by technical advances and have to undergo "retraining,"
   no one asks whether it is humiliating for them to be pushed around in
   this way. It is simply taken for granted that everyone must bow to
   technical necessity and for good reason: If human needs were put
   before technical necessity there would be economic problems,
   unemployment, shortages or worse. The concept of "mental health" in
   our society is defined largely by the extent to which an individual
   behaves in accord with the needs of the system and does so without
   showing signs of stress.
   
   120. Efforts to make room for a sense of purpose and for autonomy
   within the system are no better than a joke. For example, one company,
   instead of having each of its employees assemble only one section of a
   catalogue, had each assemble a whole catalogue, and this was supposed
   to give them a sense of purpose and achievement. Some companies have
   tried to give their employees more autonomy in their work, but for
   practical reasons this usually can be done only to a very limited
   extent, and in any case employees are never given autonomy as to
   ultimate goals -- their "autonomous" efforts can never be directed
   toward goals that they select personally, but only toward their
   employer's goals, such as the survival and growth of the company. Any
   company would soon go out of business if it permitted its employees to
   act otherwise. Similarly, in any enterprise within a socialist system,
   workers must direct their efforts toward the goals of the enterprise,
   otherwise the enterprise will not serve its purpose as part of the
   system. Once again, for purely technical reasons it is not possible
   for most individuals or small groups to have much autonomy in
   industrial society. Even the small-business owner commonly has only
   limited autonomy. Apart from the necessity of government regulation,
   he is restricted by the fact that he must fit into the economic system
   and conform to its requirements. For instance, when someone develops a
   new technology, the small-business person often has to use that
   technology whether he wants to or not, in order to remain competitive.
   
 
 
  THE 'BAD' PARTS OF TECHNOLOGY CANNOT BE SEPARATED FROM THE 'GOOD' PARTS
 
   
   
   121. A further reason why industrial society cannot be reformed in
   favor of freedom is that modern technology is a unified system in
   which all parts are dependent on one another. You can't get rid of the
   "bad" parts of technology and retain only the "good" parts. Take
   modern medicine, for example. Progress in medical science depends on
   progress in chemistry, physics, biology, computer science and other
   fields. Advanced medical treatments require expensive, high-tech
   equipment that can be made available only by a technologically
   progressive, economically rich society. Clearly you can't have much
   progress in medicine without the whole technological system and
   everything that goes with it.
   
   122. Even if medical progress could be maintained without the rest of
   the technological system, it would by itself bring certain evils.
   Suppose for example that a cure for diabetes is discovered. People
   with a genetic tendency to diabetes will then be able to survive and
   reproduce as well as anyone else. Natural selection against genes for
   diabetes will cease and such genes will spread throughout the
   population. (This may be occurring to some extent already, since
   diabetes, while not curable, can be controlled through the use of
   insulin.) The same thing will happen with many other diseases
   susceptibility to which is affected by genetic degradation of the
   population. The only solution will be some sort of eugenics program or
   extensive genetic engineering of human beings, so that man in the
   future will no longer be a creation of nature, or of chance, or of God
   (depending on your religious or philosophical opinions), but a
   manufactured product.
   
   123. If you think that big government interferes in your life too much
   NOW, just wait till the government starts regulating the genetic
   constitution of your children. Such regulation will inevitably follow
   the introduction of genetic engineering of human beings, because the
   consequences of unregulated genetic engineering would be disastrous.
   [19]
   
   124. The usual response to such concerns is to talk about "medical
   ethics." But a code of ethics would not serve to protect freedom in
   the face of medical progress; it would only make matters worse. A code
   of ethics applicable to genetic engineering would be in effect a means
   of regulating the genetic constitution of human beings. Somebody
   (probably the upper-middle class, mostly) would decide that such and
   such applications of genetic engineering were "ethical" and others
   were not, so that in effect they would be imposing their own values on
   the genetic constitution of the population at large. Even if a code of
   ethics were chosen on a completely democratic basis, the majority
   would be imposing their own values on any minorities who might have a
   different idea of what constituted an "ethical" use of genetic
   engineering. The only code of ethics that would truly protect freedom
   would be one that prohibited ANY genetic engineering of human beings,
   and you can be sure that no such code will ever be applied in a
   technological society. No code that reduced genetic engineering to a
   minor role could stand up for long, because the temptation presented
   by the immense power of biotechnology would be irresistible,
   especially since to the majority of people many of its applications
   will seem obviously and unequivocally good (eliminating physical and
   mental diseases, giving people the abilities they need to get along in
   today's world). Inevitably, genetic engineering will be used
   extensively, but only in ways consistent with the needs of the
   industrial-technological system. [20]
   
  TECHNOLOGY IS A MORE POWERFUL SOCIAL FORCE THAN THE ASPIRATION FOR FREEDOM
 
   125. It is not possible to make a LASTING compromise between
   technology and freedom, because technology is by far the more powerful
   social force and continually encroaches on freedom through REPEATED
   compromises. Imagine the case of two neighbors, each of whom at the
   outset owns the same amount of land, but one of whom is more powerful
   than the other. The powerful one demands a piece of the other's land.
   The weak one refuses. The powerful one says, "OK, let's compromise.
   Give me half of what I asked." The weak one has little choice but to
   give in. Some time later the powerful neighbor demands another piece
   of land, again there is a compromise, and so forth. By forcing a long
   series of compromises on the weaker man, the powerful one eventually
   gets all of his land. So it goes in the conflict between technology
   and freedom.
   
   126. Let us explain why technology is a more powerful social force
   than the aspiration for freedom.
   
   127. A technological advance that appears not to threaten freedom
   often turns out to threaten freedom often turns out to threaten it
   very seriously later on. For example, consider motorized transport. A
   walking man formerly could go where he pleased, go at his own pace
   without observing any traffic regulations, and was independent of
   technological support-systems. When motor vehicles were introduced
   they appeared to increase man's freedom. They took no freedom away
   from the walking man, no one had to have an automobile if he didn't
   want one, and anyone who did choose to buy an automobile could travel
   much faster than the walking man. But the introduction of motorized
   transport soon changed society in such a way as to restrict greatly
   man's freedom of locomotion. When automobiles became numerous, it
   became necessary to regulate their use extensively. In a car,
   especially in densely populated areas, one cannot just go where one
   likes at one's own pace one's movement is governed by the flow of
   traffic and by various traffic laws. One is tied down by various
   obligations: license requirements, driver test, renewing registration,
   insurance, maintenance required for safety, monthly payments on
   purchase price. Moreover, the use of motorized transport is no longer
   optional. Since the introduction of motorized transport the
   arrangement of our cities has changed in such a way that the majority
   of people no longer live within walking distance of their place of
   employment, shopping areas and recreational opportunities, so that
   they HAVE TO depend on the automobile for transportation. Or else they
   must use public transportation, in which case they have even less
   control over their own movement than when driving a car. Even the
   walker's freedom is now greatly restricted. In the city he continually
   has to stop and wait for traffic lights that are designed mainly to
   serve auto traffic. In the country, motor traffic makes it dangerous
   and unpleasant to walk along the highway. (Note the important point we
   have illustrated with the case of motorized transport: When a new item
   of technology is introduced as an option that an individual can accept
   or not as he chooses, it does not necessarily REMAIN optional. In many
   cases the new technology changes society in such a way that people
   eventually find themselves FORCED to use it.)
   
   128. While technological progress AS A WHOLE continually narrows our
   sphere of freedom, each new technical advance CONSIDERED BY ITSELF
   appears to be desirable. Electricity, indoor plumbing, rapid
   long-distance communications . . . how could one argue against any of
   these things, or against any other of the innumerable technical
   advances that have made modern society? It would have been absurd to
   resist the introduction of the telephone, for example. It offered many
   advantages and no disadvantages. Yet as we explained in paragraphs
   59-76, all these technical advances taken together have created world
   in which the average man's fate is no longer in his own hands or in
   the hands of his neighbors and friends, but in those of politicians,
   corporation executives and remote, anonymous technicians and
   bureaucrats whom he as an individual has no power to influence. [21]
   The same process will continue in the future. Take genetic
   engineering, for example. Few people will resist the introduction of a
   genetic technique that eliminates a hereditary disease It does no
   apparent harm and prevents much suffering. Yet a large number of
   genetic improvements taken together will make the human being into an
   engineered product rather than a free creation of chance (or of God,
   or whatever, depending on your religious beliefs).
   
   129 Another reason why technology is such a powerful social force is
   that, within the context of a given society, technological progress
   marches in only one direction; it can never be reversed. Once a
   technical innovation has been introduced, people usually become
   dependent on it, unless it is replaced by some still more advanced
   innovation. Not only do people become dependent as individuals on a
   new item of technology, but, even more, the system as a whole becomes
   dependent on it. (Imagine what would happen to the system today if
   computers, for example, were eliminated.) Thus the system can move in
   only one direction, toward greater technologization. Technology
   repeatedly forces freedom to take a step back -- short of the
   overthrow of the whole technological system.
   
   130. Technology advances with great rapidity and threatens freedom at
   many different points at the same time (crowding, rules and
   regulations, increasing dependence of individuals on large
   organizations, propaganda and other psychological techniques, genetic
   engineering, invasion of privacy through surveillance devices and
   computers, etc.) To hold back any ONE of the threats to freedom would
   require a long different social struggle. Those who want to protect
   freedom are overwhelmed by the sheer number of new attacks and the
   rapidity with which they develop, hence they become pathetic and no
   longer resist. To fight each of the threats separately would be
   futile. Success can be hoped for only by fighting the technological
   system as a whole; but that is revolution not reform.
   
   131. Technicians (we use this term in its broad sense to describe all
   those who perform a specialized task that requires training) tend to
   be so involved in their work (their surrogate activity) that when a
   conflict arises between their technical work and freedom, they almost
   always decide in favor of their technical work. This is obvious in the
   case of scientists, but it also appears elsewhere: Educators,
   humanitarian groups, conservation organizations do not hesitate to use
   propaganda or other psychological techniques to help them achieve
   their laudable ends. Corporations and government agencies, when they
   find it useful, do not hesitate to collect information about
   individuals without regard to their privacy. Law enforcement agencies
   are frequently inconvenienced by the constitutional rights of suspects
   and often of completely innocent persons, and they do whatever they
   can do legally (or sometimes illegally) to restrict or circumvent
   those rights. Most of these educators, government officials and law
   officers believe in freedom, privacy and constitutional rights, but
   when these conflict with their work, they usually feel that their work
   is more important.
   
   132. It is well known that people generally work better and more
   persistently when striving for a reward than when attempting to avoid
   a punishment or negative outcome. Scientists and other technicians are
   motivated mainly by the rewards they get through their work. But those
   who oppose technilogiccal invasions of freedom are working to avoid a
   negative outcome, consequently there are a few who work persistently
   and well at this discouraging task. If reformers ever achieved a
   signal victory that seemed to set up a solid barrier against further
   erosion of freedom through technological progress, most would tend to
   relax and turn their attention to more agreeable pursuits. But the
   scientists would remain busy in their laboratories, and technology as
   it progresses would find ways, in spite of any barriers, to exert more
   and more control over individuals and make them always more dependent
   on the system.
   
   133. No social arrangements, whether laws, institutions, customs or
   ethical codes, can provide permanent protection against technology.
   History shows that all social arrangements are transitory; they all
   change or break down eventually. But technological advances are
   permanent within the context of a given civilization. Suppose for
   example that it were possible to arrive at some social arrangements
   that would prevent genetic engineering from being applied to human
   beings, or prevent it from being applied in such a ways as to threaten
   freedom and dignity. Still, the technology would remain waiting.
   Sooner or later the social arrangement would break down. Probably
   sooner, given that pace of change in our society. Then genetic
   engineering would begin to invade our sphere of freedom, and this
   invasion would be irreversible (short of a breakdown of technological
   civilization itself). Any illusions about achieving anything permanent
   through social arrangements should be dispelled by what is currently
   happening with environmental legislation. A few years ago it seemed
   that there were secure legal barriers preventing at least SOME of the
   worst forms of environmental degradation. A change in the political
   wind, and those barriers begin to crumble.
   
   134. For all of the foregoing reasons, technology is a more powerful
   social force than the aspiration for freedom. But this statement
   requires an important qualification. It appears that during the next
   several decades the industrial-technological system will be undergoing
   severe stresses due to economic and environmental problems, and
   especially due to problems of human behavior (alienation, rebellion,
   hostility, a variety of social and psychological difficulties). We
   hope that the stresses through which the system is likely to pass will
   cause it to break down, or at least weaken it sufficiently so that a
   revolution occurs and is successful, then at that particular moment
   the aspiration for freedom will have proved more powerful than
   technology.
   
   135. In paragraph 125 we used an analogy of a weak neighbor who is
   left destitute by a strong neighbor who takes all his land by forcing
   on him a series of compromises. But suppose now that the strong
   neighbor gets sick, so that he is unable to defend himself. The weak
   neighbor can force the strong one to give him his land back, or he can
   kill him. If he lets the strong man survive and only forces him to
   give his land back, he is a fool, because when the strong man gets
   well he will again take all the land for himself. The only sensible
   alternative for the weaker man is to kill the strong one while he has
   the chance. In the same way, while the industrial system is sick we
   must destroy it. If we compromise with it and let it recover from its
   sickness, it will eventually wipe out all of our freedom.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 04, 2016, 05:28 PM NHFT
I didn't read the entire post (wall o' text).

Interesting though. Where did you get it from?

What is your take on the article?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 04, 2016, 06:16 PM NHFT
Industrial Society and Its Future
by Theodore J. Kaczynski

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/225468.Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future


AKA, unabomber's manifesto


http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt

I agree with most of it.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 04, 2016, 06:34 PM NHFT
Industrial Society and Its Future
by Theodore J. Kaczynski

http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/225468.Industrial_Society_and_Its_Future


AKA, unabomber's manifesto


http://cyber.eserver.org/unabom.txt

I agree with most of it.

 ;D  8)

Ya got me with that one.

Although I remember when that was published in the news and had to agree with much of it. It often comes down to what we should do about the situation. His approach didn't change anything.

Along those lines...
I took an oath when I entered the military to "Defend the Constitution against all enemies foreign and domestic." So by their own oath they required me to swear to, I should be storming the Capitol or something, right? But, long ago I had to realize that those paths not only are suicide, but they lead to making things much worse.

Poor Ted, got all dark and isolated and forfeited his life with no positive result.

Things could be much worse than they are and positivity is the only path to any meaningful change.

I have often said that, "Libertarians are often one of the biggest obstacles in the way of their own cause." Spend too much time dwelling on how fucked up the gooberment has made things can end up turning the movement into a death cult... i.e.. "We're doom!" And more importantly missing the opportunities that present the chance to influence change.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 04, 2016, 08:03 PM NHFT
Oh, the government -is- horrible. I always keep that firmly in mind, and use it as a sort of map for what to do next. Basically, I'm plotting my steps forward based on a loose recitation of the fall of the roman empire.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 04, 2016, 10:05 PM NHFT
glass half full
There is a tv on in the room I am typing from ... there is a debate on ABC .... but good news, it is the vice-presidents debating
So no Hillary or Trump yay
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 05, 2016, 08:18 AM NHFT
glass half full
There is a tv on in the room I am typing from ... there is a debate on ABC .... but good news, it is the vice-presidents debating
So no Hillary or Trump yay


 I was driving last night and that was the only thing my radio could pick up, so I listened to some of it.   It was like taking a multiple choice test in school, where you knew all of the answers could be challenged because the question was misleading and formed wrong from the get go.   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 05, 2016, 03:40 PM NHFT
so true
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on October 05, 2016, 11:58 PM NHFT
;D ;D ;D
(https://scontent-mia1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-0/p480x480/14563505_1399400293421624_7042757176943298339_n.jpg?oh=6a7df85fc6c2e35455e02b62fd52b16d&oe=587A3180)

That's the biggest truth of this campaign season.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 06, 2016, 12:11 AM NHFT
I haven't been hearing to much Libertarian on Libertarian hate speech out here on the road.
see ... not falling this week
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: jerryswife on October 06, 2016, 09:32 AM NHFT

[/quote]


 I was driving last night and that was the only thing my radio could pick up, so I listened to some of it.   It was like taking a multiple choice test in school, where you knew all of the answers could be challenged because the question was misleading and formed wrong from the get go.   
[/quote]

I always hated multiple choice questions, especially on IQ and psychological tests.  On both, it was always obvious what the "right" answer was but often the real right answer wasn't an option, sort of a metaphor for life.

This is an interesting thread, particularly in its wild swings from tentative optimism to soul-crushing pessimism.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 06, 2016, 10:41 AM NHFT
We might be headed to where the sky is falling soon

either flashlights from PA or generators from MA down to FL
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 06, 2016, 07:03 PM NHFT
Only Star Trek fans will understand.  ;D
(https://scontent-yyz1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/14600861_1628800117412652_9014899101306856719_n.jpg?oh=86a4dc09e81a32483f02649a48cb2e53&oe=5869B410)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 07, 2016, 09:40 AM NHFT
we all are potential victims

maybe we need to have Kirk ripe and shirt and take one for the team
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 07, 2016, 11:14 AM NHFT
we all are potential victims

maybe we need to have Kirk ripe and shirt and take one for the team

  Good idea.  Wasn't it Capt. Kirk who kicked butt on some kind of leader of the Lizard People in one the episodes?  I mean that Lizard guy had sharp teeth and who knows how bad is breath was ? 

I think we should all thank Capt. Kirk for his service.  (smiley emoticon)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 07, 2016, 11:40 AM NHFT
(https://i.ytimg.com/vi/XJ-ATwRq5KY/hqdefault.jpg)
Where are the incriminating files!
No one will keep me from office!


Due to her Parkinson's Hillary is having difficulty maintaining her shape shifting cloak. Her Lizard People identity is revealed.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 07, 2016, 07:00 PM NHFT
I wonder what the lizardfolks are going to do about the dollar crash? Bitcoin up to 615+ and real estate, treasuries, and stocks are playing a fun and wild up and down game. Beans and rice ftw.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 07, 2016, 10:19 PM NHFT
Here is a video that crosses paths between my "tentative optimism" and Señor Logic's "fun and wild up and down game".
Opportunity indeed.


Trump vs Clinton - The Window of Opportunity
https://youtu.be/CWK4PMcQeR8
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 08, 2016, 09:34 AM NHFT
Here is a video that crosses paths between my "tentative optimism" and Señor Logic's "fun and wild up and down game".
Opportunity indeed.


Trump vs Clinton - The Window of Opportunity
https://youtu.be/CWK4PMcQeR8

 
 (I am officially channeling Saint Lloyd in this post)

" ...thought the stumbling drunk guy at the beer store in the video was Zim (from the mancave).  But then realized, he drinks hardstuff and the stumbling guy had beer".     
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 08, 2016, 10:30 AM NHFT
Here is a video that crosses paths between my "tentative optimism" and Señor Logic's "fun and wild up and down game".
Opportunity indeed.


Trump vs Clinton - The Window of Opportunity
https://youtu.be/CWK4PMcQeR8

 
 (I am officially channeling Saint Lloyd in this post)

" ...thought the stumbling drunk guy at the beer store in the video was Zim (from the mancave).  But then realized, he drinks hardstuff and the stumbling guy had beer".   

First off... We miss Lloyd.

Amazing determination to get more beer. Most would just pass out already.  ;D

Some have given in and given up, drinking and drugging their way through the "doom" they see. Our side has done a great job of showing all that is wrong... And granted there is a lot that has gone wrong. But, we need to see the opportunities. The rest of the culture is starting to catch up and see what we have already figured out.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 08, 2016, 08:44 PM NHFT
The rest of the culture is starting to catch up and see what we have already figured out.

Yup. But the problem is, people wake up at different speeds. and most people are waking up slowly. My concern is that we'll get enough 'change' that most people will be happy and go back to sleep, and then it's just another long slow march into history cycle n+1.
I also worry about getting shot.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 08, 2016, 10:02 PM NHFT
One of the two idiots could start WW3 as well.

If we survive, and we have to plan like we will.  ;D  People need to hear of a positive alternative to the way it has been. For that reason libertarians need to propagate the idea of a "bright and shining future" that we can, and I think will, have.

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 09, 2016, 05:06 AM NHFT
Got a mouse in your pocket?

Why do you think people are "waking up", and what is your plan to fix the world?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2016, 07:19 AM NHFT
Less this
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/564x/6c/b8/6d/6cb86d912c119c99b15d52616def4206.jpg)


More of this
(http://67.media.tumblr.com/60d4c6b2575a6681a87dfcb82be415c1/tumblr_mll1mgleYJ1so65tpo1_500.jpg)

I don't have to have a plan to fix the world it will spontaneously improve once it is allowed to.

For those who are having trouble seeing the positive you might consider working on your amygdala...   ;D

Our Brain's Negative Bias (https://www.psychologytoday.com/articles/200306/our-brains-negative-bias)

Quote
Why do insults once hurled at us stick inside our skull, sometimes for decades? Why do some people have to work extra hard to ward off depression?

The answer is, for the same reason political smear campaigns outpull positive ones. Nastiness just makes a bigger impact on our brains.

And that is due to the brain's "negativity bias": Your brain is simply built with a greater sensitivity to unpleasant news. The bias is so automatic that it can be detected at the earliest stage of the brain's information processing.


How Happy Brains Respond to Negative Things (https://lakesideconnect.com/intervention-and-prevention/how-happy-brains-respond-to-negative-things/)

Quote
Humans have a negativity bias, a tendency to focus on threats. But this research suggests that people may be able to compensate for it by consciously trying to focus more on the positive. As the authors put it in their paper, “while people do automatically attend to negative stimuli, given the proper ability and motivation, they can show the same sensitivity to positive stimuli.”
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 09, 2016, 08:24 AM NHFT
I don't see doom and gloom for myself. I have it pretty good. All I have to do is grow dope, and spend time with my family. Life couldn't be better. :)

But as far as overall trend in the world, things seem to be getting worse, not better.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 09, 2016, 11:19 AM NHFT
I don't see doom and gloom for myself. I have it pretty good. All I have to do is grow dope, and spend time with my family. Life couldn't be better. :)

But as far as overall trend in the world, things seem to be getting worse, not better.

 
  Except the profit you make from growing dope is a false profit, due to a free market being disallowed by false prophets.

  Say that fast 3 times in a row eh ?
 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2016, 04:55 PM NHFT
I don't see doom and gloom for myself. I have it pretty good. All I have to do is grow dope, and spend time with my family. Life couldn't be better. :)

But as far as overall trend in the world, things seem to be getting worse, not better.

Oh, indeed they are getting worse... my point is that the opportunity to influence the corrections that are to follow the mess should be put to best use.

Glad you and yours are doing well.  :) 8)

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 09, 2016, 09:46 PM NHFT
I don't see doom and gloom for myself. I have it pretty good. All I have to do is grow dope, and spend time with my family. Life couldn't be better. :)

But as far as overall trend in the world, things seem to be getting worse, not better.

On second thought, that does sound pretty good.  I reread my previous comment and guess it sounded funnier in my head than written done.  Please excuse any hint of douchiness on my part,  it wasn't my intention.  I shoulda said something like what Tom Sawyer said and left it at that.   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 09, 2016, 10:16 PM NHFT
I don't see doom and gloom for myself. I have it pretty good. All I have to do is grow dope, and spend time with my family. Life couldn't be better. :)

But as far as overall trend in the world, things seem to be getting worse, not better.

On second thought, that does sound pretty good.  I reread my previous comment and guess it sounded funnier in my head than written done.  Please excuse any hint of douchiness on my part,  it wasn't my intention.  I shoulda said something like what Tom Sawyer said and left it at that.   

Ahhhh Jeez, we can't both play good cop... somebody has to be bad cop.    ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 10, 2016, 12:08 AM NHFT
I feel better already
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 10, 2016, 06:40 AM NHFT
 I've used up my annual apology, and there's still a couple of months to go.  I'm living on the edge now.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 10, 2016, 05:47 PM NHFT
German Police Say Syrian Planning Attack Was Nabbed By Fellow Refugees (http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/10/10/497386085/german-police-say-syrian-planning-attack-was-nabbed-by-fellow-refugees)

Quote
Some media reports suggest that al-Bakr approached fellow Syrian refugees in Leipzig and asked if he could spend the night with them. The other Syrians, recognizing him, told him he could stay and then tied him up and alerted police.

Decent folks stopping violence. Kind of goes counter to the whole hating the immigrant angle.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 10, 2016, 08:14 PM NHFT

Donald Trump's Duet with Hillary Clinton      ;D ;D ;D
https://www.facebook.com/presidentgaryjohnson/videos/1630493023910028/
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 10, 2016, 10:31 PM NHFT
see we can all just get along
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on October 11, 2016, 02:12 AM NHFT
I've used up my annual apology, and there's still a couple of months to go.  I'm living on the edge now.

Now you have to wait for the Airing of Grievances.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 13, 2016, 11:51 AM NHFT
I've used up my annual apology, and there's still a couple of months to go.  I'm living on the edge now.

Now you have to wait for the Airing of Grievances.

That's during Festivus.  ;D

Until then...

http://www.rigged2016.com
https://www.facebook.com/rigged2016movie/

Really well produced documentary. Drew Carey, Krist Novoselic (of Nirvana), Nick Gillespie (Reason), Glenn Beck etc.

I would ask that people share this in the Facebook realm, especially to have it as an outreach to those outside of our little sphere.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 13, 2016, 11:55 AM NHFT
I've used up my annual apology, and there's still a couple of months to go.  I'm living on the edge now.

Now you have to wait for the Airing of Grievances.

 Should I put on clean underwear just in case ?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 13, 2016, 04:04 PM NHFT
We are down here in Florida waiting to deliver water somewhere .... and the sky stopped falling on Saturday
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on October 13, 2016, 10:25 PM NHFT
http://www.rigged2016.com
https://www.facebook.com/rigged2016movie/

Really well produced documentary. Drew Carey, Krist Novoselic (of Nirvana), Nick Gillespie (Reason), Glenn Beck etc.

I would ask that people share this in the Facebook realm, especially to have it as an outreach to those outside of our little sphere.

It's all over Facebook already. You'll get your copy in the mail. ;)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 14, 2016, 08:23 AM NHFT
http://www.rigged2016.com
https://www.facebook.com/rigged2016movie/

Really well produced documentary. Drew Carey, Krist Novoselic (of Nirvana), Nick Gillespie (Reason), Glenn Beck etc.

I would ask that people share this in the Facebook realm, especially to have it as an outreach to those outside of our little sphere.

It's all over Facebook already. You'll get your copy in the mail. ;)

 ;D

I didn't see it posted by anyone I checked..

This cycle is the most significant I've seen since I've been paying attention from the libertarian perspective.

Never seen major newspapers endorse the candidate.

This documentary is the best one that's been produced. Sure is a lot better than that crap Harry Browne's campaign paid a 100 grand of campaign funds to make. Unlike that piece Overstock CEO Patrick Byrne spent 1 million of his own money. As someone that has produced and tried to distribute my work to a larger audience it's frustrating that most people are merely consumers and aren't active in helping spread the work in front of potential audiences. A feature length documentary is one of the more powerful ways to evangelize our message. But, again I am frustrated by many libertarians lack of interest in crafting a message that will convince the new audience. Their too busy talking to the echo chamber.

The fact that there are two of the least appealing candidates in american history. It could be the perfect storm... a real opportunity to make significant progress. Meanwhile most libertarians are too busy grousing about purity and not recognizing opportunity when it comes knocking. I don't even vote, but I see the chance to put in front of the larger audience that there is another direction to go.

Ol' Gary ain't "The One", but he is moving the ball down the field.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 14, 2016, 09:16 AM NHFT
that clip was good
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: jerryswife on October 14, 2016, 03:55 PM NHFT
https://fee.org/articles/statists-got-you-down-how-to-stay-resilient-as-freedom-declines/
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on October 15, 2016, 12:27 AM NHFT
This cycle is the most significant I've seen since I've been paying attention from the libertarian perspective.

Never seen major newspapers endorse the candidate.

What about a 25 year old with a $2,500 campaign fund polling well against an entrenched incumbent in a solidly gerrymandered district? He even gets serious coverage in statewide news.

http://www.wiseye.org/Video-Archive/Event-Detail/evhdid/11039

Yeah, that's my kid.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 15, 2016, 10:18 AM NHFT
https://fee.org/articles/statists-got-you-down-how-to-stay-resilient-as-freedom-declines/

Good article. I was reading Fee's magazine recently, I really liked it I need to support that organization.

Quote
Gallagher explains psychology’s “negative bias theory.” Simply, “we pay more attention to unpleasant feelings such as fear, or anger and sadness because they’re simply more powerful than the agreeable sort.” 
   

The primitive, reptilian, survival mode function of our brain.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 15, 2016, 10:58 AM NHFT
This cycle is the most significant I've seen since I've been paying attention from the libertarian perspective.

Never seen major newspapers endorse the candidate.

What about a 25 year old with a $2,500 campaign fund polling well against an entrenched incumbent in a solidly gerrymandered district? He even gets serious coverage in statewide news.

http://www.wiseye.org/Video-Archive/Event-Detail/evhdid/11039

Yeah, that's my kid.  ;D

More good news... I love it. Congrats Dad. As I say, "The nut doesn't fall far from the tree.

I was involved with a campaign for Lt. Governor of Virginia. They called it the Reams Reeferendum. In Virginia the Lt Governor has no real power and people aren't worried about who is Lt Governor. A friend of mine decided to create a campaign based around Cannabis law reform. Strictly a one issue campaign. He got Gary Reams to run. All he talked about was changing the Cannabis laws... he didn't even offer specific policies or laws. It was just a chance for people to show they supported change on the issue. He had almost no money for his campaign, but after I lined them up with some activists in Charlottesville he spoke at the University of Virginia. In that district he got 12% of the vote based on that one appearance.

There was fighting with in the LP circles over what the thrust of race should be. Many thought that he should have a gun rights campaign. Clearly they weren't thinking that the Republican candidate, who had an actual chance of winning, would be how people interested in the guns rights issue would vote.

Winning isn't the likely obtainable goal at this stage in most of these contests. Brand recognition and the first steps in making people realize that there is another direction are where we are at.

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 15, 2016, 02:55 PM NHFT

 It's sometimes hard to have a conversation with people if what you are talking about is beyond the scope of their present reality, but within the scope of something that IS real, (as in demonstrably provable) but not commonly known or recognized as being accurate.

 Cognitive dissonance is the opiate substitute of the masses. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 15, 2016, 03:48 PM NHFT

 It's sometimes hard to have a conversation with people if what you are talking about is beyond the scope of their present reality, but within the scope of something that IS real, (as in demonstrably provable) but not commonly known or recognized as being accurate.

 Cognitive dissonance is the opiate substitute of the masses.

You're freakin' me out man!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 15, 2016, 04:59 PM NHFT

 It's sometimes hard to have a conversation with people if what you are talking about is beyond the scope of their present reality, but within the scope of something that IS real, (as in demonstrably provable) but not commonly known or recognized as being accurate.

 Cognitive dissonance is the opiate substitute of the masses.

You're freakin' me out man!

 I almost said "the methadone of the masses" but then the quote would have gotten methy.  Wait a minute, did I just lisp? 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 15, 2016, 05:19 PM NHFT
 ;D

I've had people do a full on meltdown, freak out on me. It's hard to take someone showing you that up is down and white is black.

I was right, but they couldn't accept the message.

I've since learned to be happy with creating one little crack that let's a little bit of light in. Later on I've had some tell me they found out I was right. Then they turn toward you for more answers.

I've also learned to not get caught up in changing the dinosaurs mind. Their children's generation is the target.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 15, 2016, 05:57 PM NHFT
that happens when I tell some people that NASA faked the moon landing (ducks and runs for shelter)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 15, 2016, 06:20 PM NHFT
that happens when I tell some people that NASA faked the moon landing (ducks and runs for shelter)

 
 Well that's a relief.

 I've been wanting to throw out that half used jar of TANG I've been hauling around for the last 40 years...and now I can do it guilt free. 


   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 15, 2016, 06:25 PM NHFT
;D

I've had people do a full on meltdown, freak out on me. It's hard to take someone showing you that up is down and white is black.

I was right, but they couldn't accept the message.

I've since learned to be happy with creating one little crack that let's a little bit of light in. Later on I've had some tell me they found out I was right. Then they turn toward you for more answers.

I've also learned to not get caught up in changing the dinosaurs mind. Their children's generation is the target.

 Good advice. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 15, 2016, 09:02 PM NHFT

 Well that's a relief.

 I've been wanting to throw out that half used jar of TANG I've been hauling around for the last 40 years...and now I can do it guilt free. 


 
probably for the best
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 17, 2016, 09:25 AM NHFT
Johnson-Weld and NH: Not so long a shot now
EDITORIAL (http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20161016%2FOPINION01%2F161019455&template=mobileart)

Union Leader continues to support the Libertarian candidate. Of even more interest to me is the nasty attack comments from right and left wingers.  ;D The Cognitive Dissonance is at fevered pitch and they are feeling the pressure.  8)

Many think it's about if a libertarian can win. I'd say they already have. More attention and brand recognition than every.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 17, 2016, 09:42 AM NHFT
Johnson-Weld and NH: Not so long a shot now
EDITORIAL (http://www.unionleader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20161016%2FOPINION01%2F161019455&template=mobileart)

Union Leader continues to support the Libertarian candidate. Of even more interest to me is the nasty attack comments from right and left wingers.  ;D The Cognitive Dissonance is at fevered pitch and they are feeling the pressure.  8)

Many think it's about if a libertarian can win. I'd say they already have. More attention and brand recognition than every.

  Cognitive dissonance is a dreadful disease. 

 This onetime (at band camp) I was accused of being a selfish libertarian.  I offered the standard explanation that a libertarian world would accept people being socialists as long as the socialists confined it to people who individually agreed to be socialist etc.

 The socialist replied, "it doesn't work that way" .  I said, yes, I know and gave my best ironical smile.   

 Damn you Kaiser Wilhelm!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 17, 2016, 09:50 AM NHFT
so true
I can see an editorial page wanting to be on record with their trepidation over a trump or clinton administration .... eeeekkk
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 17, 2016, 03:52 PM NHFT
(http://arafwchnawr.com/images/DSC02522%20copy%202.jpg)

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 17, 2016, 04:12 PM NHFT
...runs out of green, calls it a fall painting.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 17, 2016, 05:07 PM NHFT
...runs out of green, calls it a fall painting.

 ;D

Part of the Sky Watch System.
The SWS is designed to monitor and report
the Chicken Little Index.
 A relative scale 1-10
Sky Falling Potential Indicators
that are evaluated and tallied.


Today's SWS  CLI
3

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 17, 2016, 05:45 PM NHFT
looks like a lot of yellow has fallen
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 18, 2016, 08:15 AM NHFT
looks like a lot of yellow has fallen

Pine needles.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 18, 2016, 08:24 AM NHFT
Rigging the Election - Video I: Clinton Campaign and DNC Incite Violence at Trump Rallies (https://youtu.be/5IuJGHuIkzY)

The good news is that there was a time that these tactics wouldn't have come to the light of day. When Killary gets elected her presidency will be plagued by scandal. More people will come to realize that the whole thing is a scam.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 18, 2016, 09:15 AM NHFT
Rigging the Election - Video I: Clinton Campaign and DNC Incite Violence at Trump Rallies (https://youtu.be/5IuJGHuIkzY)

These people are total lite weights compared to Lincoln's time.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 18, 2016, 04:44 PM NHFT
Rigging the Election - Video I: Clinton Campaign and DNC Incite Violence at Trump Rallies (https://youtu.be/5IuJGHuIkzY)

These people are total lite weights compared to Lincoln's time.
Of course the whole moral realism angle just numbs us to the latest transgressions.

Lincoln... he only started a war that killed 2% of the U.S. population. WW2 killed 3% of the world population. I'm sure Killary or Tronald Dump can beat that.

 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 18, 2016, 04:48 PM NHFT
I mean, that would only be like 3 or 4 million people. Small change compared to some of the classic democides of the last hundred years. All they need to do is get a real good, solid internal enemy to point the enforcers at, and we could get double that within a single four year term, no problem. If trump wins, it would probably be mexicans and muslims. Basically, brown people. If hillary wins, well, harder to say, it would probably be more of an ideological demographic. perhaps something akin to mccarthey's communist hunts.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 18, 2016, 05:49 PM NHFT
the sky hasn't fallen here for days
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 18, 2016, 05:50 PM NHFT
Rigging the Election - Video I: Clinton Campaign and DNC Incite Violence at Trump Rallies (https://youtu.be/5IuJGHuIkzY)

These people are total lite weights compared to Lincoln's time.
yea and we won't know how good Hillary's team was until they start erecting statues of her 100 years from now
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 18, 2016, 06:37 PM NHFT
Rigging the Election - Video I: Clinton Campaign and DNC Incite Violence at Trump Rallies (https://youtu.be/5IuJGHuIkzY)

These people are total lite weights compared to Lincoln's time.
yea and we won't know how good Hillary's team was until they start erecting statues of her 100 years from now

This just gave me a really cool idea for a lovely twist on the classic party game 'pin the tail on the donkey'
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 18, 2016, 07:19 PM NHFT
(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.2834967.1476798354!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_1200/statue19n-5-web.jpg)

SEE IT: Naked statue of Hillary Clinton in downtown Manhattan causes fight during morning commute (http://www.nydailynews.com/new-york/naked-statue-hillary-clinton-sparks-fight-manhattan-article-1.2834970)

...Clinton with hoofed feet and a Wall Street banker resting his head on her bare breasts.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 18, 2016, 07:27 PM NHFT
Dammit I'm at work now, come on :P
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 18, 2016, 08:41 PM NHFT
Dammit I'm at work now, come on :P

She is sexy, isn't she? Sorry to get ya going.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 19, 2016, 11:07 AM NHFT
I watched the video of the lady taking exception to the Hoofed Hillary art.  Amusing. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 19, 2016, 11:15 AM NHFT
I watched the video of the lady taking exception to the Hoofed Hillary art.  Amusing.

She works for an art museum... you think that she could handle seeing art.  ;D

She was also using her "female privilege" in attacking someone's property. Kind of like Carrie Nation.

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1284200.1362882924!/img/httpImage/image.jpg_gen/derivatives/article_750/justice10n-3b-web.jpg)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Pat K on October 19, 2016, 05:15 PM NHFT
I have an urge to go back in time and kill her.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 19, 2016, 05:58 PM NHFT
I have an urge to go back in time and kill her.
Listen could you make a stop at around 2009 and tell me to keep track of that bitcoin wallet?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 19, 2016, 06:21 PM NHFT
I have an urge to go back in time and kill her.
Listen could you make a stop at around 2009 and tell me to keep track of that bitcoin wallet?

.....also 1975, 'cause I didn't need to join the ARMY.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 19, 2016, 06:43 PM NHFT
I have an urge to go back in time and kill her.
Listen could you make a stop at around 2009 and tell me to keep track of that bitcoin wallet?

.....also 1975, 'cause I didn't need to join the ARMY.

On the one hand, I hated being in the army. On the -other- hand, I often wonder if I would have somehow self steered towards liberty and such if I'd had a comfy life and gotten a real job instead.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 20, 2016, 08:17 AM NHFT
Thank you all for your service.


Not you Pat... I've heard the things you did!
 ;D ;D ;D


Nothing will make ya more anti-gov. then being owned by them.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 20, 2016, 12:58 PM NHFT
Than being -openly- owned by them and actually having people literally tell you that you're government property. Because really, government owns everyone, by their own reckoning. They're just a lot more open about it in the military.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 20, 2016, 01:07 PM NHFT
Is anyone stopping by 1975? WTF?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Pat K on October 20, 2016, 02:50 PM NHFT
Thank you all for your service.


Not you Pat... I've heard the things you did!
 ;D ;D ;D


Nothing will make ya more anti-gov. then being owned by them.


Hey none of the communist hordes overran any of the Bars of the western pacific on my watch.

Your Fucking Welcome.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 20, 2016, 11:19 PM NHFT
I got accused of "creating an international incident". It was all the fault of the admin idiots, but they needed someone to blame and I was convenient. Oh course I had a serious short timers attitude by then and decided to play chicken with the Command Sergeant Major and the Commanding Officer. I actually made the Sergeant Major turn pale when I told him I had nothing to lose, but he had a career to think of.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 21, 2016, 08:51 AM NHFT
Is anyone stopping by 1975? WTF?

I stopped by, but regret to inform you I was skipping high school algebra class at the time and working the magic of a fake i.d. at a nearby college pub.  Cheers!   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 21, 2016, 10:17 AM NHFT
Is anyone stopping by 1975? WTF?

I stopped by, but regret to inform you I was skipping high school algebra class at the time and working the magic of a fake i.d. at a nearby college pub.  Cheers!   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voNEgCKzves (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voNEgCKzves)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 22, 2016, 11:03 AM NHFT
Is anyone stopping by 1975? WTF?

I stopped by, but regret to inform you I was skipping high school algebra class at the time and working the magic of a fake i.d. at a nearby college pub.  Cheers!   
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voNEgCKzves (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voNEgCKzves)

I wouldn't have known who did that song, but it sure did take me back.

Today I'm feeling a little bit nostalgic. Or maybe like a man that is a bit past his time. A little less optimistic, at least for my personal future.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 22, 2016, 07:19 PM NHFT
Speaking of nostalgia, remember back in the day when bitcoin was spiking up to over $1000?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 22, 2016, 11:20 PM NHFT
Quote
Assange told an online audience that he’s “a big admirer of Ron Paul and Rand Paul for their very principled positions in the U.S. Congress on a number of issues” and insisted that the libertarian wing the Republican Party represented the “only hope” for reform in American politics.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2013/08/17/assanges-politics-rand-paul-and-libertarian-wing-of-gop-represent-only-hope-in-u-s/#53b846b457b5
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 23, 2016, 08:10 AM NHFT
Quote
Assange told an online audience that he’s “a big admirer of Ron Paul and Rand Paul for their very principled positions in the U.S. Congress on a number of issues” and insisted that the libertarian wing the Republican Party represented the “only hope” for reform in American politics.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2013/08/17/assanges-politics-rand-paul-and-libertarian-wing-of-gop-represent-only-hope-in-u-s/#53b846b457b5

 My large Ron Paul sign (circa 2007 or 08) found itself cut into pieces and put into use as a wind blocker between the rafters of my chicken coop.  By the time Rand surfaced, I could honestly say I had chickened out of political solutions.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 23, 2016, 09:02 AM NHFT
Quote
Assange told an online audience that he’s “a big admirer of Ron Paul and Rand Paul for their very principled positions in the U.S. Congress on a number of issues” and insisted that the libertarian wing the Republican Party represented the “only hope” for reform in American politics.

http://www.forbes.com/sites/tomwatson/2013/08/17/assanges-politics-rand-paul-and-libertarian-wing-of-gop-represent-only-hope-in-u-s/#53b846b457b5

 My large Ron Paul sign (circa 2007 or 08) found itself cut into pieces and put into use as a wind blocker between the rafters of my chicken coop.  By the time Rand surfaced, I could honestly say I had chickened out of political solutions.

 ;D

I don't really have a lot of hope for political solutions. At least not any time soon. But, I am encouraged that Assange and Snowden both have publicly expressed their libertarian support. It is the slow, yet steady, growth of the brand/ideology. Some young people just now coming up will be the ones to move this further forward. It might not be "Liberty in our Lifetime", but that is the direction that is growing, while the dinosaurs will be scrambling to try and suppress the changes. They will be in the reacting mode. trying to contain it.

People's enthusiasm for Ron Paul's efforts led to many folks moving to the Shire, that just a few years earlier weren't "libertarian". I think a lot of disenfranchised Bernie supporters will divide the left and even come to our side of things over time as well. The children of the lefties aren't too likely to become Republicans, they are more likely to come to our side of things as well.

More people inside Leviathan will question what is happening and be the next Snowden etc. More information has come to light from the hacked e-mails than since something like the Pentagon Papers. That eventually helped end the war in Vietnam.

The pessimistic naysayers will still look to the majority of the public that is being manipulated and fooled as proof that these things won't make a difference. It is always the case that the majority is blind to these things. But, years later what was on the fringe becomes the norm for the masses. I remember when I was a kid my parents saying "that's not music that's screaming". Years later my 80 year old mother had a Joe Cocker CD.  ;D   I see similar behavior in other tastes, what was once weird foreign cuisine is now being consumed in the most conservative backwaters.

What's that Ghandi quote about "Your efforts will probably have little effect, but you must do them." All the little ripples we make in the culture have an effect, it's just not something that can be predicted which efforts will really resonant. Even bringing two more people into the fold means you have created geometric growth, that's a pretty good growth curve.


Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 23, 2016, 09:51 AM NHFT
Mike Rowe "libertarian"?

(http://d2vrsup6vl2y4n.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/Screen-Shot-2016-08-26-at-11.41.03-AM.png)

24 Hours After Last Nights Debate, Mike Rowe Makes A Huge Confession On What He Sees Wrong With This Election (http://qpolitical.com/24-hours-after-last-nights-debate-mike-rowe-makes-a-huge-confession-on-what-he-see-wrong-with-this-election/)

Quote
“In the meantime, dig into Economics in One Lesson, by Henry Hazlitt. It sounds like a snooze but it really is a page turner, and you can download it for free.

– Mike Rowe
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Mark D. Jacobsen on October 25, 2016, 04:50 AM NHFT
I wanted to say hello. This is the current thread here to say hello on. So hello from Carroll County.
Positive things in life:
I never joined the military.
I planted lettuce and spinach and kale.
My dog ate my baby pumpkins.
I finished reading the book The Godfather.
Halloween is the best time of the year because I am a pagan bastard.
Pumpkin fest was moved to Laconia , obviously to get closer to me. (I heard a rumor)
I saw a meteor and haven't been vaporized.
My neighbors are off the grid types.
Someone around here has got a 50cal. I do not know who yet.
I am pleased to be in NH, freedom-wise life is better than western Wa. (GROUND 0) I don't live between 2 primary nuclear targets anymore.
:)
Modern day Warrior, is that what you mean by maybe the sky isn't falling?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 25, 2016, 05:40 AM NHFT
I wanted to say hello. This is the current thread here to say hello on. So hello from Carroll County.
Positive things in life:
I never joined the military.
I planted lettuce and spinach and kale.
My dog ate my baby pumpkins.
I finished reading the book The Godfather.
Halloween is the best time of the year because I am a pagan bastard.
Pumpkin fest was moved to Laconia , obviously to get closer to me. (I heard a rumor)
I saw a meteor and haven't been vaporized.
My neighbors are off the grid types.
Someone around here has got a 50cal. I do not know who yet.
I am pleased to be in NH, freedom-wise life is better than western Wa. (GROUND 0) I don't live between 2 primary nuclear targets anymore.
:)
Modern day Warrior, is that what you mean by maybe the sky isn't falling?

Just what I needed to hear... some good news.  8)

Glad ya'll are enjoying your new environs. It's good not to be vaporized, well some kinds of vaporized are good... but not in a mushroom cloud... wait a minute even that could have a good connotation.  ;D (Sorry if I used up all your potential material here, Free Libertarian.)

Speaking of GROUND 0... When I lived in DC. One night I woke up to the loudest BOOM!!!!. I sat upright in bed to see the dog illuminated by a blinding light that was coming through the window shades. For an instant I thought, well this is it... Butch and I are done... shock wave to follow.

Turned out to be lightening had struck the power transformer in front of my house and lit the tree tops on fire. We spent the rest of the night on the front porch watching the fire department and electric company crews working. Some drunk guy came wondering down the street among sparking wires, with everyone yelling at him to get out of there. It's apparently true that god does take care of drunks and fools. Since I wasn't the drunk... well, you know which one I must be.  ;D

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on October 26, 2016, 11:06 AM NHFT
I wanted to say hello. This is the current thread here to say hello on. So hello from Carroll County.
Positive things in life:
I never joined the military.
I planted lettuce and spinach and kale.
My dog ate my baby pumpkins.
I finished reading the book The Godfather.
Halloween is the best time of the year because I am a pagan bastard.
Pumpkin fest was moved to Laconia , obviously to get closer to me. (I heard a rumor)
I saw a meteor and haven't been vaporized.
My neighbors are off the grid types.
Someone around here has got a 50cal. I do not know who yet.
I am pleased to be in NH, freedom-wise life is better than western Wa. (GROUND 0) I don't live between 2 primary nuclear targets anymore.
:)
Modern day Warrior, is that what you mean by maybe the sky isn't falling?

Just what I needed to hear... some good news.  8)

Glad ya'll are enjoying your new environs. It's good not to be vaporized, well some kinds of vaporized are good... but not in a mushroom cloud... wait a minute even that could have a good connotation.  ;D (Sorry if I used up all your potential material here, Free Libertarian.)

Speaking of GROUND 0... When I lived in DC. One night I woke up to the loudest BOOM!!!!. I sat upright in bed to see the dog illuminated by a blinding light that was coming through the window shades. For an instant I thought, well this is it... Butch and I are done... shock wave to follow.

Turned out to be lightening had struck the power transformer in front of my house and lit the tree tops on fire. We spent the rest of the night on the front porch watching the fire department and electric company crews working. Some drunk guy came wondering down the street among sparking wires, with everyone yelling at him to get out of there. It's apparently true that god does take care of drunks and fools. Since I wasn't the drunk... well, you know which one I must be.  ;D


  Interesting story.   I'm just gonna say from personal experience, that it's possible a person could be both a drunk and a fool though.
 I have a sort of similar story, albeit it's a little racy.
 
Many years ago, in a little one bedroom apartment my brother and I lived in, we made a rule, whoever got home first got the bedroom and the other guy got the couch.  I was erm "engaged within" in the bedroom with a local lass, when the building next door caught on fire and there was quite a fuss just a few feet away, sirens blaring, firemen gesticulating etc.   Being a drunken, (horny) fool at the time, I did not abandon my post until the job was done, not even when they wetted down the exterior wall of the building I was in as a precautionary measure.  Eventually after everyone had put their hoses away, the evening quiet resumed.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on October 28, 2016, 12:45 PM NHFT
I hope everyone's getting their bitcoins before it blasts off for real. :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 29, 2016, 02:38 PM NHFT
Democrats should ask Hillary Clinton to step aside (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/kass/ct-hillary-clinton-emails-kass-1030-20161028-column.html)
Chicago Tribune


The Chicago Tribune also endorsed Gary Johnson (http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-gary-johnson-president-endorsement-edit-1002-20160930-story.html)'s campaign. Other endorsements here. (https://www.johnsonweld.com/endorsements)

Quote
"The best thing would be for Democrats to ask her to step down now. It would be the most responsible thing to do, if the nation were more important to them than power. And the American news media — fairly or not firmly identified in the public mind as Mrs. Clinton's political action committee — should begin demanding it."

Unprecedented, in my lifetime...  ;D

So when the bitch gets into office she is going to have to weather one controversy after another. I can only hope that the Dem's overreach and arrogance will be an example of 'winning the battle and losing the war'.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: jerryswife on October 29, 2016, 04:12 PM NHFT
Michael Crichton has a brilliant take on speculation, which is what the news has become as opposed to rational analysis.  I think I will unsubscribe to most of the news feeds that fill my inbox. :)

http://needtoknow.news/archives/articles-from-ntk/why-speculate-crichton-2016-10-26/
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on October 30, 2016, 02:12 AM NHFT
Michael Crichton has a brilliant take on speculation, which is what the news has become as opposed to rational analysis.  I think I will unsubscribe to most of the news feeds that fill my inbox. :)

http://needtoknow.news/archives/articles-from-ntk/why-speculate-crichton-2016-10-26/

I'm not a fan of any of his novels after Andromeda Strain, but this was witty. :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 31, 2016, 01:03 AM NHFT
Gary Johnson: Voting for Trump or Clinton Is Voting for Tyranny (http://time.com/4501438/gary-johnson-common-sense/)
Time.com

Quote
And now that we’re getting down to the end, people are even angrier and more dissatisfied. Why? Because while we have a multiplicity of choices in other spheres of life, our freedom and liberty are being limited by a system that has reduced our political choices to two: Republican or Democrat.


Why military voters pick Gary Johnson over Hillary Clinton (http://nhunderground.com/forum/index.php?action=post;topic=27840.195;last_msg=362785)
Christian Science Monitor

Quote
The poll found that officers are also less likely to vote for Trump than enlisted personnel, with only 26 percent pledging support to the Republican candidate. Among this group, Johnson and Clinton are neck-and-neck, both carrying around 31 percent of the voting bloc.

While the support for Johnson seems staggering, military voters aren’t the only ones moving toward the Libertarian. A Quinnipiac University poll conducted in mid-September found that 29 percent of voters between the ages of 18 and 34 favored the third-party candidate.

Unprecedented support for a libertarian candidate. Most extensive mainstream coverage ever... these are signs of things going in the right direction.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 31, 2016, 04:02 AM NHFT
I wish I felt like we were headed in the right direction. Seems more like the highway to hell.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on October 31, 2016, 07:53 AM NHFT
I wish I felt like we were headed in the right direction. Seems more like the highway to hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 31, 2016, 09:48 AM NHFT
I wish I felt like we were headed in the right direction. Seems more like the highway to hell.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_gtGfAail4

You crazy head banging' umpahpah people!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 31, 2016, 10:06 AM NHFT
I wish I felt like we were headed in the right direction. Seems more like the highway to hell.

I feel ya. Short term I am concerned for the same thing. But, if Killary doesn't start WW3 and we don't get nuked... (and that's a pretty big if)... more people than ever have been exposed to the option of a libertarian direction. The ideas win even when the political effort doesn't.

As an aside my spell checker corrected my error when I typed libertarian, so it's a common term. When I first started using the term libertarian, probably 1977, not many people had heard the term. Now the candidate has been endorsed by major newspapers. Progress. It's a matter of not just looking at the things that are going badly.

Best opportunity for growth ever.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on October 31, 2016, 11:44 AM NHFT
I wish I felt like we were headed in the right direction. Seems more like the highway to hell.

I feel ya. Short term I am concerned for the same thing. But, if Killary doesn't start WW3 and we don't get nuked... (and that's a pretty big if)... more people than ever have been exposed to the option of a libertarian direction. The ideas win even when the political effort doesn't.

As an aside my spell checker corrected my error when I typed libertarian, so it's a common term. When I first started using the term libertarian, probably 1977, not many people had heard the term. Now the candidate has been endorsed by major newspapers. Progress. It's a matter of not just looking at the things that are going badly.

Best opportunity for growth ever.

But to hear the purists talk, it's time to abandon the party for not being 'principled'.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on October 31, 2016, 07:33 PM NHFT
I wish I felt like we were headed in the right direction. Seems more like the highway to hell.

I feel ya. Short term I am concerned for the same thing. But, if Killary doesn't start WW3 and we don't get nuked... (and that's a pretty big if)... more people than ever have been exposed to the option of a libertarian direction. The ideas win even when the political effort doesn't.

As an aside my spell checker corrected my error when I typed libertarian, so it's a common term. When I first started using the term libertarian, probably 1977, not many people had heard the term. Now the candidate has been endorsed by major newspapers. Progress. It's a matter of not just looking at the things that are going badly.

Best opportunity for growth ever.

But to hear the purists talk, it's time to abandon the party for not being 'principled'.

Anarchist for President. Kind of an oxymoron isn't it?  ;D

Minarchist is what a libertarian presidential candidate is.

In addition this is the wave to ride right now. Or you can paddle out and wait 4-8 years for the next/perfect wave.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on October 31, 2016, 09:21 PM NHFT
There is a reason it is referred to as a two party system. And it's rigged.

Ross Perot got 19% of the popular vote in 1992, but no electoral votes.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 01, 2016, 09:26 AM NHFT
and Perot is a Roosevelt/Bush anyway :)

if some guys in the military want to vote for a anti-war candidate .... there must be some progress :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Mark D. Jacobsen on November 02, 2016, 03:41 AM NHFT
The alternative has left the building. The time for a political solution is past.
How does it go?

Fool me once shame on you.

Fool me four times shame on me.

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on November 12, 2016, 07:16 PM NHFT
Commentary: The unbearable smugness of the press (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/)

The mainstream media takes it on the chin from this election cycle. The obvious bias, I think, contributed to people voting for what they were told not to vote for.

Quote
We go into assignments too certain that what we find will serve to justify our biases. The public’s estimation of the press declines even further -- fewer than one-in-three Americans trust the press, per Gallup -- which starts the cycle anew.

Creative destruction, baby. The old has to fall before the new can rise to replace it. Only the dinosaurs are still getting their "news" from newspapers and TV.  ;D Sure we read what they are spouting, but we weigh it against other sources of information and don't take it at face value.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 12, 2016, 07:40 PM NHFT
it is surprising that some people still get their info from the old news
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on November 13, 2016, 11:40 AM NHFT
Commentary: The unbearable smugness of the press (http://www.cbsnews.com/news/commentary-the-unbearable-smugness-of-the-press-presidential-election-2016/)

The mainstream media takes it on the chin from this election cycle. The obvious bias, I think, contributed to people voting for what they were told not to vote for.

Quote
We go into assignments too certain that what we find will serve to justify our biases. The public’s estimation of the press declines even further -- fewer than one-in-three Americans trust the press, per Gallup -- which starts the cycle anew.

Creative destruction, baby. The old has to fall before the new can rise to replace it. Only the dinosaurs are still getting their "news" from newspapers and TV.  ;D Sure we read what they are spouting, but we weigh it against other sources of information and don't take it at face value.

This is a very long piece, but it's in segments that don't feel long. It's a good read where a Vox writer calls out smugness.

http://www.vox.com/2016/4/21/11451378/smug-american-liberalism
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 13, 2016, 07:45 PM NHFT
the sky might not be falling .... but trump is president
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on November 13, 2016, 08:39 PM NHFT
the sky might not be falling .... but trump is president

Yeah, but you could say the same thing about the last, I don't know, how many presidents? ;D

He is like the rodeo clown president.

I came to be more afraid of Killary, that evil bitch would have gotten away with so much cuz she could play the "First Woman President" card. Just like Obama played the "First Black President" card.

I mean Trump is a want to be junior varsity Mussolini, but it could have some real comedy potential.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on November 14, 2016, 07:18 AM NHFT
the sky might not be falling .... but trump is president

Yeah, but you could say the same thing about the last, I don't know, how many presidents? ;D

He is like the rodeo clown president.

I came to be more afraid of Killary, that evil bitch would have gotten away with so much cuz she could play the "First Woman President" card. Just like Obama played the "First Black President" card.

I mean Trump is a want to be junior varsity Mussolini, but it could have some real comedy potential.


Sometimes a blind squirrel President finds a nut...sometimes.

Ultimately property rights and personal rights are the same thing -  Calvin Coolidge   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on November 15, 2016, 07:43 PM NHFT
Snowden, probably one of the bigger heroes of my lifetime.

Snowden (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt3774114/)

Just watched a very well done film by Oliver Stone.  Now 10's of millions will likely be touched by the dramatic film.

The dark person's view of the film would be, "How awful, we're screwed." The bright view is that a person of conscience did the right thing at tremendous personal cost.

The "powers that be"will have a lot of difficulty with all the wild cards that can be played against their plans of controlling our future's path.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on November 17, 2016, 03:48 PM NHFT
I agree with you

(for another thread ... the snowden story is fake, they already did it once in the 60s)

yea trump is a rodeo clown
it is crazy to think what it would be like if Hillary could say we had validated everything Obama did and wanted more, plus her crazy stuff
whew!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on December 07, 2016, 03:19 PM NHFT
On another note, the demonetization of the higher denomination notes in India has started pushing PMs and crypto. So, yay, the end is nigh, regardless of what trump does! :P
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on December 07, 2016, 06:50 PM NHFT
On another note, the demonetization of the higher denomination notes in India has started pushing PMs and crypto. So, yay, the end is nigh, regardless of what trump does! :P

India was a mess already. Maybe more of the smart ones will either leave or like you say promote crypto-currency. The Soviets couldn't even crush their black markets real markets.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on December 07, 2016, 08:09 PM NHFT
Ugh, that would strain the already groaning global economy. Can you imagine, hundreds of millions of people suddenly relocating to the rest of the planet? I'm assuming we're talking less than 50% of the population.
Anyway, why would they want to leave? They have one of the most thriving black markets on the planet. The only reason I wouldn't move to india is the climate.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on December 08, 2016, 12:03 AM NHFT
wow things always look down in your world view
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on December 08, 2016, 12:11 PM NHFT
I don't follow? I said they had one of the most vibrant black markets in the world, and I would totally live there if not for the climate.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 03, 2017, 05:20 PM NHFT
Rand Paul: Why I Will Vote to Repeal Obamacare (http://time.com/4596673/rand-paul-repeal-obamacare/)
Time.com

Quote
"I am taking this stand — I will not vote for any budget that doesn’t have a plan to balance, regardless of what is attached to it and I’m calling on other conservatives in the Senate to take the same stand. Let’s repeal Obamacare, and let’s do it with a budget that leads us to balance in the near term."

If the R's can't accomplish this it will show them as the hypocrites that they often are.

Interesting times...

Watched a documentary on Chaos Theory last night. Inspiring to think that small inputs can create big differences in outcome.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on January 06, 2017, 07:24 PM NHFT
tell us more of this documentary Tom

btw the sky is falling here in Arkansas ... in the form of snow .... the south is in a panic.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on January 07, 2017, 11:22 PM NHFT
Rand Paul: Why I Will Vote to Repeal Obamacare (http://time.com/4596673/rand-paul-repeal-obamacare/)
Time.com

Quote
"I am taking this stand — I will not vote for any budget that doesn’t have a plan to balance, regardless of what is attached to it and I’m calling on other conservatives in the Senate to take the same stand. Let’s repeal Obamacare, and let’s do it with a budget that leads us to balance in the near term."

If the R's can't accomplish this it will show them as the hypocrites that they often are.

The best thing I've seen from Rand:

What should we replace Obamacare with? Perhaps we should try freedom:

1.  The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

2.  The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

4.  The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool.

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 08, 2017, 06:51 AM NHFT
Rand Paul: Why I Will Vote to Repeal Obamacare (http://time.com/4596673/rand-paul-repeal-obamacare/)
Time.com

Quote
"I am taking this stand — I will not vote for any budget that doesn’t have a plan to balance, regardless of what is attached to it and I’m calling on other conservatives in the Senate to take the same stand. Let’s repeal Obamacare, and let’s do it with a budget that leads us to balance in the near term."

If the R's can't accomplish this it will show them as the hypocrites that they often are.

The best thing I've seen from Rand:

What should we replace Obamacare with? Perhaps we should try freedom:

1.  The freedom to choose inexpensive insurance free of government dictates.

2.  The freedom to save unlimited amounts in a health savings account.

3. The freedom to buy insurance across state lines.

4.  The freedom for all individuals to join together in voluntary associations to gain the leverage of being part of a large insurance pool.


Amen.

Gooberment involvement in insurance pushed it's affordability out of our reach.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 09, 2017, 11:35 AM NHFT
Making stuff generally unaffordable for everyone is a tried and tested method for the government to expand its power and reach to new areas of every day life.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 09, 2017, 03:12 PM NHFT
Making stuff generally unaffordable for everyone is a tried and tested method for the government to expand its power and reach to new areas of every day life.

I do believe that was part of the Obama/Hillary/Marxist plan. They would fix Obamacare by going to a "single payer"/government "final solution".

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 09, 2017, 04:59 PM NHFT
Uh oh. That sounds like something a RUSSIAN SPY would say!!!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 10, 2017, 06:06 PM NHFT
Making stuff generally unaffordable for everyone is a tried and tested method for the government to expand its power and reach to new areas of every day life.


Yep.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 10, 2017, 06:09 PM NHFT
Uh oh. That sounds like something a RUSSIAN SPY would say!!!

  Maybe that "dang" aw shucks country boy wisdom is just a Tom Sawyer ploy then ?   Crafty. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 10, 2017, 06:28 PM NHFT
Uh oh. That sounds like something a RUSSIAN SPY would say!!!

  Maybe that "dang" aw shucks country boy wisdom is just a Tom Sawyer ploy then ?   Crafty.

I bet Putin himself trained him!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 10, 2017, 06:33 PM NHFT
Uh oh. That sounds like something a RUSSIAN SPY would say!!!

  Maybe that "dang" aw shucks country boy wisdom is just a Tom Sawyer ploy then ?   Crafty.

I bet Putin himself trained him!


 He's even teaching his kid how to use spy drones and stuff! 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 10, 2017, 07:23 PM NHFT
Dah Comrade... I mean, That's right ya'll!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on January 10, 2017, 11:29 PM NHFT
see the sky is falling
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 11, 2017, 11:32 AM NHFT
but on the plus side, the housing market is about to follow the sky, and that'll be great for lower income home buyers.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on January 11, 2017, 12:14 PM NHFT
but on the plus side, the housing market is about to follow the sky, and that'll be great for lower income home buyers.

With what savings are they going to use for a down payment?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 11, 2017, 03:27 PM NHFT
Doomed, I tell ya... we are all DOOMED!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 11, 2017, 03:41 PM NHFT
but on the plus side, the housing market is about to follow the sky, and that'll be great for lower income home buyers.

With what savings are they going to use for a down payment?

The ones that they have, hopefully, been putting away in silver and bitcoin. obviously, not all of them will have been doing this, which is unfortunate. But I see a not too distant future where bitcoin, and perhaps silver or some other high value commodity, will be more ubiquitous than is currently the case.

Mostly, I look to the future to be a time where you can just work, and get paid, and buy things, without all the silliness we deal with now to stop you.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on January 11, 2017, 05:09 PM NHFT
You realize that's probably 100k-200k people in the entire US, right? And people that can put away Bitcoin and precious metals are already more financially well off than most.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 11, 2017, 05:38 PM NHFT
Silver, yeah. Silver gets expensive, and there are usually minimum buy ins.
Bitcoin? You can buy some bitcoin for a dollar. It's one of the things you can buy on the scale of emptying out your change jar every now and then.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on January 11, 2017, 07:34 PM NHFT
why is the housing market going to go down? everywhere? in what areas?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 11, 2017, 08:13 PM NHFT
Generally all over the place. We've reached a point where people aren't going for the funny money any more, and I don't mean hard headed austrian economists, I'm talking about foreign governments and corporations. Big holders are starting to dump US treasuries, and it's starting to show in the bond markets, prices wiggling down and yields going up. That's why the fed gave the 'interest rate' a little nudge upwards. The circumstances we're in are starting to ACTUALLY match up with what all the doomsayers have been saying is coming for the last 20 years. Treasuries are struggling, we have a president and congress that are going to -start- dismantling a lot of the democratic stuff that's been put up in the last 8 years, but probably start arguing about how to replace it with their own version that benefits them, and things are going to start going sideways.

The real estate market wasn't permitted to collapse properly in 2008, they just shoved more money up its ass and puppeted it along, but over the last 8 years, they've lost a LOT of public support for that and it's starting to show in the politicians that are getting elected. And keep in mind, if ol' donny really gets his fingers into it, he's ALL about real estate. He would LOVE to see the market fall on its face to grab some easy buys for his next hotel or whatever. So I highly doubt he's going to commit political suicide to continue the prop-up program when he could just make a massive killing instead.

And bla bla bla I could go on for a long time about this, but basically, every single thing that they negative nancies have said is 'the next step that's about to happen" for the last few decades is suddenly happening, all at once. And that's good, because we need to clean our laundry. The longer you just keep spraying air freshener on it, the worse it gets, and it's been quite some time.


So, definitely a good time to buy in say, 3-6 months.
Oh, and if you don't have one, get some kind of bitcoin debit card. That way you can just put all your money that you aren't using to buy silver into bitcoins.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on January 12, 2017, 10:35 PM NHFT
actually that sounds like the same thing I have heard many times before
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 13, 2017, 11:41 AM NHFT
Yeah. It DOES sound like the same thing you've heard before. That's because, with one small exception, it's exactly the same thing you've heard before. Except, instead of saying "thing x is happening, so thing y will be next!", it's "Damn it's about time ok finally y is happening, here comes z"

But listen, I'm a crazy hermit who talks to himself all the time. So, you know. Grain of salt and all that.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 13, 2017, 12:24 PM NHFT
Yeah. It DOES sound like the same thing you've heard before. That's because, with one small exception, it's exactly the same thing you've heard before. Except, instead of saying "thing x is happening, so thing y will be next!", it's "Damn it's about time ok finally y is happening, here comes z"

But listen, I'm a crazy hermit who talks to himself all the time. So, you know. Grain of salt and all that.

Dang it. I was hoping you had a crystal ball that we all could get rich by you prognosticating for us!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 13, 2017, 12:47 PM NHFT
No no, I mostly rely on predictive linguistic analysis.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on January 13, 2017, 03:57 PM NHFT
Don't worry, the government will have to keep expanding it's socialism. Not much is going to fail.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 13, 2017, 07:55 PM NHFT
They soon won't be able to keep expanding it. Unless they're willing to play games with hyperinflation. For the last 4 presidents, the national deficit has been about doubling every 8 years. And during that time, they've been ever increasing the amount of people who rely on the government for financial assistance in everyday things, such as food. Not to mention, there's been a growing movement of discontent, both with big government, and government at all. This recent 'fake news' play has really opened the government media outlets to a lot of critical examination, especially after they fell on their faces so hard with the clinton campaign. The facade is crumbling, and even if it wasn't, they're creating a larger and larger population of people who simply CAN'T continue on as they are.
I don't wish the evils of financial collapse on anyone, and I wish it wasn't going to happen, but I honestly don't see it playing out any other way at this point. This time next year, I suspect we're all going to be living in a wildly different world.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on January 13, 2017, 09:54 PM NHFT
Dude, it's been going on since at least the New Deal. The reality is that everything continues to operate. Nothing is going to change, 99% of the people are zombies to the fiat illusion.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Pat K on January 14, 2017, 11:12 PM NHFT
I have been reading about the above scenarios since 1978.

So far, not so much.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 15, 2017, 10:11 AM NHFT
I think it comes down to the fact that there is a lot of wealth to destroy.

Pretty much all the governments of the world are sucking on the necks of their people. The competitive advantage means that if you drain them at a similar rate it ends up being a relatively level playing field.

They are pretty much stealing the inheritance of the next generation.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 15, 2017, 10:37 AM NHFT
  I'm wondering when cash becomes extinct and how it will manifest.  It makes sense to do that, from "their" perspective. 
 
     
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on January 15, 2017, 07:38 PM NHFT
It gets even funner when you think about how people will demand the "right" to advanced technology in order to be able to continue to live.

In a few decades, the world will be in a very strange economic situation.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on January 16, 2017, 07:32 AM NHFT
I think we are already there.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on January 16, 2017, 09:08 AM NHFT
Probably, but we haven't figured out how to reasonably deal with it quite yet. Besides inflation, that nobody seems to really care about anyway.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 26, 2017, 10:58 AM NHFT
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/26/andrew-napolitano-trump-has-committed-most-revolutionary-act-ive-seen-in-45-years.html

Andrew Napolitano: Trump has committed the most revolutionary act I've seen in 45 years

One of the better things Trump is doing.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 27, 2017, 10:47 AM NHFT
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/26/andrew-napolitano-trump-has-committed-most-revolutionary-act-ive-seen-in-45-years.html

Andrew Napolitano: Trump has committed the most revolutionary act I've seen in 45 years

One of the better things Trump is doing.


Compelling  a person to purchase a "service" and then still trying to call it a service seems blatantly illogical to me.

I'm curious if they (The Trumpites) will apply the same logic to government schools. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 27, 2017, 08:26 PM NHFT
http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2017/01/26/andrew-napolitano-trump-has-committed-most-revolutionary-act-ive-seen-in-45-years.html

Andrew Napolitano: Trump has committed the most revolutionary act I've seen in 45 years

One of the better things Trump is doing.


Compelling  a person to purchase a "service" and then still trying to call it a service seems blatantly illogical to me.

I'm curious if they (The Trumpites) will apply the same logic to government schools.

(http://i1.kym-cdn.com/photos/images/newsfeed/000/952/994/c3f.gif)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 28, 2017, 09:54 AM NHFT
 ^^^  Tee hee hee
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on January 29, 2017, 05:28 PM NHFT
half the truck drivers out here are convinced trump is going to fix everything

see the sky may not be falling
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on January 30, 2017, 08:20 AM NHFT
Trump's meddling may give us another decade or two of "stability" while the world falls down around us.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 30, 2017, 11:50 AM NHFT
My issue with people who point to the 'good' things that Trump has and proposes to do, and yes, some of the things he does have an immediate beneficial effect, but the thing is, people either forget, or don't realize that what's happening is, essentially, a changing of the guard. Not a changing of the system or the ideas. Simply a changing of the status quo of who's in charge.
Yes, Trump is, to a very large extent, engaging in a coup de etat against the old crowd of politicians, ousting them from their comfortable positions, threatening the money of their followers and clients, etc.
The trick is to realize that he's NOT doing this because he rejects that system. He's doing this because he IS draining the swamp, just not the swamp that everyone THOUGHT he was going to drain, and not for the REASONS they thought he was going to do it.
He's removing his most dangerous opposition, disarming them, curtailing their political and economic power. And one of the weapons he's utilizing for that purpose is popular support. He's playing the mob and using them as a power base to oppose the entrenched politics that are arrayed against him.

I see no reason not to believe that, once he's comfortable in his new position, comfortable with the diminished state of his opponents in government, and confident in his control and power of the political system, he will, as has happened in pretty much every recorded instance in history where one 'revolutionary' government has supplanted an older one, he will simply resume the old status quo under a new banner.

But people are always very eager to tell me I'm simply a pessimist, so who knows. Maybe I'm just wrong.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 30, 2017, 12:01 PM NHFT
Junior Varsity Populist/Fascist

Happy to have Hillary not in office. But wondering how much of Trumps stuff is rhetoric to feed his base.

The up side of the election is the media took a licking and the two parties as well. Interesting times.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 30, 2017, 01:55 PM NHFT
There are downsides and possible upsides to it, I just get twitchy when people start defending trump against the left. That's how you accidentally trick yourself into being a republican.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 30, 2017, 02:42 PM NHFT
There are downsides and possible upsides to it, I just get twitchy when people start defending trump against the left. That's how you accidentally trick yourself into being a republican.

Good point, but for me anyway, Free republican doesn't have nearly the panache as Free libertarian.  I'm very attached to my panache.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Erroneous_Logic on January 30, 2017, 03:17 PM NHFT
Panache? Is that like a kind of pancake?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 30, 2017, 05:43 PM NHFT
Panache? Is that like a kind of pancake?

I have low attachment to pancakes and besides I don't know how to say "pancake" in French. 

Where's Maine Shark when you need him ?   
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 30, 2017, 05:53 PM NHFT
I'll have the Lingonberry pancakes

(http://www.iamnotastalker.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/ScreenShot1528.jpg)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on January 30, 2017, 06:19 PM NHFT
.....you and your nine toed girlfriend.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 30, 2017, 06:32 PM NHFT
(https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/27/21/ed/2721edb963376825090187b8d89fff76.jpg)

Although they are more your countrymen than mine.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on January 30, 2017, 10:04 PM NHFT
So vat.... Vee ggreally doon't kaa.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on January 31, 2017, 01:57 AM NHFT

Happy to have Hillary not in office. But wondering how much of Trumps stuff is rhetoric to feed his base.

I'm not happy that Trump is in office, but I'm thrilled that Hillary is not. While his impulsiveness might accidentally start a war, Hillary had every intention of starting more wars.




Panache? Is that like a kind of pancake?

Naw, Panache makes bread and has restaurants.



Where's Maine Shark when you need him ?   

On Facebook. He broke down and joined the dark side. ;)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on February 02, 2017, 05:50 PM NHFT
Becky inspired this one...

Memes Away!  ;D

(http://arafwchnawr.com/images/Chiilin-n%20Grillin%201.jpg)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on February 04, 2017, 09:54 AM NHFT
so true
at the lunch counter there are always plenty of trump supporters watching fox news
I have to make sure I say I want to throw all the bums out

solar power bob has more panache in his little finger than obama in his entire strangly shaped head
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 01, 2017, 11:52 PM NHFT
Instead of watching the idiots that want to be our overlords, I like watching the amazingly beautiful things humans are capable of...

Van Gogh on Dark Water
https://youtu.be/4dKy7HNU4vk
Starry night ink on wate: Ebru art water marbling
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 02, 2017, 12:52 AM NHFT
yea the news will make you think our sky is falling ... or overheated
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 25, 2017, 05:37 AM NHFT
Libertarians are flexing their political muscle (http://rare.us/rare-politics/rare-liberty/libertarians-are-flexing-their-political-muscle/)

Quote
The American Health Care Act—the “ObamaCare-lite” legislation championed by most Republicans including President Trump and Speaker Paul Ryan—is dead.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on March 25, 2017, 08:10 AM NHFT
I wouldn't call those guys libertarians, but I guess that is what a libertarian is nowadays.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on March 25, 2017, 11:09 AM NHFT
I wouldn't call those guys libertarians, but I guess that is what a libertarian is nowadays.

Amash and Massie are much more so than Rand, but even Rand is... well, practically "Rand" compared to the rest of the Senate.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 25, 2017, 12:45 PM NHFT
btw the sky was falling for me this morning
84 in Vegas yesterday. 3 inches of snow on my truck this morning at 6400 feet in Ely.
In one large valley the clouds were below me. The sky had fallen.
btw Jim I saw people swimming ..... in a pool in Vegas.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on March 25, 2017, 12:52 PM NHFT

 :fryingpan:
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 25, 2017, 09:13 PM NHFT
I wouldn't call those guys libertarians, but I guess that is what a libertarian is nowadays.

These are the first guys to not only stand up to this kind stuff in my lifetime... they are in the Senate. Before there was one Representative, now there is a coalition in the US Senate.

The Socialists accumulated small victories under the Democrat banner until they had most of the Socialist agenda imposed. The Libertarian ideals will have to follow a similar path.

Most Libertarians seem to want an Anarchist Candidate...   ;D ;D ;D  That's an oxymoron for ya, right there.



Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 25, 2017, 09:15 PM NHFT
btw the sky was falling for me this morning
84 in Vegas yesterday. 3 inches of snow on my truck this morning at 6400 feet in Ely.
In one large valley the clouds were below me. The sky had fallen.
btw Jim I saw people swimming ..... in a pool in Vegas.

We walked on the Glacier up above Ely and saw Bristle Cone Pines that were old when Jesus was walking around.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 26, 2017, 08:07 PM NHFT
yea kinda crazy around there with big valleys and rows of mountains
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 27, 2017, 12:11 PM NHFT
Do Muslims Commit Most U.S. Terrorist Attacks? (https://reason.com/archives/2017/03/24/do-muslims-commit-most-us-terrorist-atta)

Quote
For those five years, the researchers found, Muslims carried out only 11 out of the 89 attacks, yet those attacks received 44 percent of the media coverage. (Meanwhile, 18 attacks actually targeted Muslims in America.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 28, 2017, 10:29 AM NHFT
Steve Bannon Hates Libertarians Because *We're* Not Living in the Real World?
"Economic nationalist" Trump adviser blasts people foolish enough to believe in "Free Minds and Free Markets." (http://Steve Bannon Hates Libertarians Because *We're* Not Living in the Real World?
"Economic nationalist" Trump adviser blasts people foolish enough to believe in "Free Minds and Free Markets.")

Quote
...the Republicans, it's all this theoretical Cato Institute, Austrian economics, limited government — which just doesn't have any depth to it. They're not living in the real world."

I remember when the CATO Institute built their glass and steel headquarters right in the belly of the beast. Many Libertarians have accused them of not being libertarian enough. Well, we now see the effect of organizations like them and the Mercatus Center have had by working to educate the mainstream politicians. When working for the Mercatus Center we were told not to use the "L" word in front of the political "students" at the lunch time educational sessions in the Capitol. ;D It was funny how when they had left the room we would do the equivalent of our secret hand shake with the economist etc.

Much more effective than standing on the fringe and yelling about someone's lack of purity.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on March 28, 2017, 01:05 PM NHFT
Much more effective than standing on the fringe and yelling about someone's lack of purity.

Statist!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 28, 2017, 01:12 PM NHFT
Much more effective than standing on the fringe and yelling about someone's lack of purity.

Statist!

 ;D Results trump academic debate. Well except in some debatatarian/contrarian circle (jerks).  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on March 28, 2017, 05:49 PM NHFT
Much more effective than standing on the fringe and yelling about someone's lack of purity.

Statist!

 ;D Results trump academic debate. Well except in some debatatarian/contrarian circle (jerks).  ;D

Pragmatist!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 28, 2017, 07:55 PM NHFT
Much more effective than standing on the fringe and yelling about someone's lack of purity.

Statist!

 ;D Results trump academic debate. Well except in some debatatarian/contrarian circle (jerks).  ;D

Pragmatist!

Tough crowd.  ;D

A friend, who considers himself a libertarian, laughs at the hardcore that can't seem to get 10 people to show up at the Sizzler, thinking they are going to have an impact.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on March 28, 2017, 09:25 PM NHFT
When did Austrian Economics become "cool"?  I was an Economics major when it was already 100 years old, and I was so certain that I had never heard of Austrian Economics that I bought a copy of the 1970 edition of Paul Samuelson's Economics for a few bucks on eBay to look it up but and it isn't in the index.  The only mention of Menger is that his first name initial and last name is in a footnote list of half a dozen economists from five countries who had alluded to the notion of a General Equilibrium.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 28, 2017, 11:58 PM NHFT
When did Austrian Economics become "cool"?  I was an Economics major when it was already 100 years old, and I was so certain that I had never heard of Austrian Economics that I bought a copy of the 1970 edition of Paul Samuelson's Economics for a few bucks on eBay to look it up but and it isn't in the index.  The only mention of Menger is that his first name initial and last name is in a footnote list of half a dozen economists from five countries who had alluded to the notion of a General Equilibrium.

The Mercatus Center at George Mason University and the CATO Institute I think are the main avenues that the DC crowd has been educated.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on March 29, 2017, 12:48 AM NHFT
Do they want to cut taxes for rich people?  Lots of think tanks get lots of money to espouse that "thought". 

Are the economists of the Josiah Bartlet Center "Austrians"?  I read they get their money from the Koch brothers.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 29, 2017, 06:04 AM NHFT
Do they want to cut taxes for rich people?  Lots of think tanks get lots of money to espouse that "thought". 

Are the economists of the Josiah Bartlet Center "Austrians"?  I read they get their money from the Koch brothers.

I don't know a lot about it other than having worked for Mercatus and CATO when I lived down there.

I think the left has branded the Koch brothers as evil rich guys. I don't think I buy into that class struggle/envy stuff. Seems kind of hypocritical for the left to be funded by Soros and then to hate Koch. I've made money off both Koch and Soros, indirectly. It's all green.  ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 29, 2017, 12:57 PM NHFT
if some guys in DC are complaining about us ..... excellent
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on March 30, 2017, 12:51 AM NHFT
Do they want to cut taxes for rich people?  Lots of think tanks get lots of money to espouse that "thought". 

Are the economists of the Josiah Bartlet Center "Austrians"?  I read they get their money from the Koch brothers.

I don't know a lot about it other than having worked for Mercatus and CATO ...

You worked for Cato?

(http://assets.nydailynews.com/polopoly_fs/1.1163907!/img/httpImage/image.jpg)

(http://lasvegas.informermg.com/images/lasvegas/stories/Society/Kato_Kaelin/KatoKaelin_064E.jpg)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 30, 2017, 08:31 AM NHFT
No... not that Kato.

This Kato!

(https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e2/Kato_%28Bruce_Lee%29.png)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 30, 2017, 12:05 PM NHFT
unrelated but fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBrs03PV8c

any scotts on this thread?

Can Shire Folk say "Mass residents are cool?" or similar
It doesn't roll off my tongue but the sky might still not be falling
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: WithoutAPaddle on March 30, 2017, 12:36 PM NHFT
There was a Simpsons episode where Lisa was dreaming about her having been Joan of Arc, and the dream dialog was spoken in French, with English subtitles, except for the word victory. and she asked, "Why did you say 'victory' in English?" and was told, "Because there is no French word for victory".
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 30, 2017, 01:07 PM NHFT
hahaha
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on March 30, 2017, 04:12 PM NHFT
 ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on March 30, 2017, 09:09 PM NHFT
hey I didn't think you French-Canadians living along the Maine border had a sense of humor
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: blackie on March 30, 2017, 09:25 PM NHFT
Since they don't have many black people in Maine, the KKK had to hate on the French Canadians back in the day.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on March 31, 2017, 05:00 PM NHFT
unrelated but fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBrs03PV8c

any scotts on this thread?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on March 31, 2017, 05:02 PM NHFT
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mv3exCOkJNo
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on April 01, 2017, 10:36 AM NHFT
unrelated but fun
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wtBrs03PV8c

any scotts on this thread?

that was funny
remain calm

aye we already said that

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5FFRoYhTJQQ
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on April 05, 2017, 07:11 PM NHFT
FEE's Jeffrey Tucker on Libertarian Outreach, 'The Young Pope' & More.
https://youtu.be/f1_Jt93-seE

Quote
In the 1940's libertarianism was a little known concept. But thanks to the Foundation of Economic Education (FEE) regularly featuring works by noted scholars like Ludwig von Mises, Milton Friedman, Henry Hazlitt, and George Stigler, the ideas of human liberty and freedom became more accessible and familiar to a larger audience. Today, we need to learn how popular culture can be used by libertarians to spread their ideas to a mainstream audience.

One thing I've noticed among the newer/younger activists is no knowledge or appreciation of the tough road that the pioneers of the modern libertarian movement encountered. Many, other than Ron Paul's recent campaign, only know of the new batch of celebratarians that seem to try to out edgy and take the most controversial positions, there by narrowing their reach down to the echo chamber of fellow kool-aid drinkers.

Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on April 08, 2017, 11:38 AM NHFT
Rand Paul is becoming the go to counter balance these days. He has also emboldened others in the Senate.

When angry old man John McCain is saying "He Doesn't Have Any Real Influence" well... it means he is obviously having an influence.

A friend that is experienced with dealing with PTSD vets said he recognized the symptoms and behavior in McCain. He goes into the "fight or flight" mode easily. Crazy dang dinosaur.

So anyway the point of this post is that even though the missiles might be flying... The silver lining view is it differentiates the libertarian or constitutionalist position.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on April 08, 2017, 12:27 PM NHFT
Rand Paul is becoming the go to counter balance these days. He has also emboldened others in the Senate.

When angry old man John McCain is saying "He Doesn't Have Any Real Influence" well... it means he is obviously having an influence.

A friend that is experienced with dealing with PTSD vets said he recognized the symptoms and behavior in McCain. He goes into the "fight or flight" mode easily. Crazy dang dinosaur.

So anyway the point of this post is that even though the missiles might be flying... The silver lining view is it differentiates the libertarian or constitutionalist position.


 Please don't insult the dang dinosaurs.  - Graffy
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on April 08, 2017, 02:46 PM NHFT
yea I happened upon the Mises institute a few years ago. I said "I knew other people thought like I did". I didn't know about the thread of people going back in history.
Tolstoy showed how the history of non-violence in the face of evil was covered up throughout the years.
I think decent libertarian thinkers will be buried by the media, their books will be banned and burned and each generation will have to uncover this stuff.
Maybe the old timers in our movement can keep connections with the younger ones and pass it along. :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Mark D. Jacobsen on April 11, 2017, 06:07 PM NHFT
Maybe the sky is falling... on Syrians.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 01, 2017, 10:34 PM NHFT
Looks like schools are paying an economic price for allowing and even encouraging radical lefty activities...

Colleges struggle over defending or curbing free speech (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/01/colleges-struggle-over-defending-or-curbing-free-speech.html)

Quote
Both the University of Missouri and Evergreen State College have been rocked by left-wing demonstrations, some of which administrators in both schools allowed. Now both have had to deal with falling enrollment and a decline in funds - and there are fears the situation could spread to other schools.


Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on September 02, 2017, 02:25 PM NHFT
Looks like schools are paying an economic price for allowing and even encouraging radical lefty activities...

Colleges struggle over defending or curbing free speech (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/01/colleges-struggle-over-defending-or-curbing-free-speech.html)

Quote
Both the University of Missouri and Evergreen State College have been rocked by left-wing demonstrations, some of which administrators in both schools allowed. Now both have had to deal with falling enrollment and a decline in funds - and there are fears the situation could spread to other schools.

People don't want to be emotionally and physically abused just for being straight and white. Who the hell would choose to go to such schools if they were fully aware of how much they promoted this "reverse" racism?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 04, 2017, 02:53 PM NHFT
can't imagine being a white guy at some of these places
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on September 28, 2017, 11:04 PM NHFT
If nothing else the current state of affairs in the US is comic gold...

Antifa leader, teacher Yvonne Felarca arrested at 'empathy tent' Berkeley brawl (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/28/antifa-leader-teacher-yvonne-felarca-arrested-at-empathy-tent-berkeley-brawl.html)

I say we sell pay per view tickets to the Fascist vs. Commie matches... Cantwell vs. this middle school teacher!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jay on September 29, 2017, 01:59 AM NHFT
Sometimes you can just see the crazy in the eyes.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: KBCraig on September 29, 2017, 09:37 PM NHFT
If nothing else the current state of affairs in the US is comic gold...

Antifa leader, teacher Yvonne Felarca arrested at 'empathy tent' Berkeley brawl (http://www.foxnews.com/us/2017/09/28/antifa-leader-teacher-yvonne-felarca-arrested-at-empathy-tent-berkeley-brawl.html)

I say we sell pay per view tickets to the Fascist vs. Commie matches... Cantwell vs. this middle school teacher!

Molyneux has a great voice for the play-by-play.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on September 30, 2017, 11:25 PM NHFT
can you imagine visiting a college commons area these days?
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 09, 2019, 09:27 AM NHFT
How to green the world's deserts and reverse climate change | Allan Savory
https://youtu.be/vpTHi7O66pI

More of an issue of "Climate Change" is desertification caused by lack of grazing animals. The opposite of what we have been told.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on January 09, 2019, 10:54 AM NHFT
I once read a study where they analyzed how many cows per acre was optimal ... I think this was Montana .... and the point of it was that we were overgrazing, but they were shocked to find that many more cows worked up the soil, planted seeds and spread out the nutrients. :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Jim Johnson on January 14, 2019, 04:45 PM NHFT
The world needs more bullshit.  I'm just say'n...
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on January 14, 2019, 05:27 PM NHFT
The world needs more bullshit.  I'm just say'n...

I've been doing my part for decades!
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on January 14, 2019, 07:26 PM NHFT

 Dang dung humor. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on January 14, 2019, 07:32 PM NHFT
sky falling in the bay area ... and these people act like it is hard times
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on May 04, 2019, 07:13 PM NHFT
https://joebiden.info

Parody website is ranking better than the really one.

Creepy Old Uncle Joe.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on May 05, 2019, 12:14 PM NHFT
https://joebiden.info

Parody website is ranking better than the really one.

Creepy Old Uncle Joe.

Pretty dang funny website Mr. Sawyer.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on May 05, 2019, 08:11 PM NHFT
this guy can almost make trump look normal .... well
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on May 08, 2019, 04:47 AM NHFT
Stossel: The Rise Of Citizen Journalists
https://youtu.be/7wo4-hp1pwQ

About Tim Pool...
These kind of folks are why the deplatforming on YouTube, Facebook etc. is happening. The Legacy Media is losing market share. CNN, Vox etc. are laying people off. The Legacy Media no long controls the narrative and they are pissed off and on the attack.

Tim Pool
Joe Rogan
Count Dankula
StyxHexenHammer666

Are some of the folks I've been following on YouTube. It's a weird and wonderful world of commentary.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Free libertarian on May 08, 2019, 06:51 AM NHFT
Count Dankula?   I'll have to check that out. 
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Tom Sawyer on May 08, 2019, 07:00 AM NHFT
Count Dankula?   I'll have to check that out.

You might have heard about the guy in Scotland who got arrested for teaching his girlfriends dog to do the heil Hitler... it was a joke, but the court would not consider the context. It made his little YouTube channel blow up.

He is now running for Member of the European Parliament. Funny guy with an interesting perspective. Thick accent.
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: Russell Kanning on May 09, 2019, 09:46 AM NHFT
they are mad that we can talk to each other outside of their control in some ways :)
Title: Re: Maybe the sky isn't falling
Post by: K neth on May 12, 2019, 09:38 PM NHFT
The Legacy Media no long controls the narrative and they are pissed off and on the attack.

They're Dirty, Dirty Smear Merchants.
https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dirty+dirty+smear+merchants&t=ffsb&ia=web (https://duckduckgo.com/?q=dirty+dirty+smear+merchants&t=ffsb&ia=web)

Check out Luke Rudkowski for Journalism from a stateless perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/user/wearechange/videos (https://www.youtube.com/user/wearechange/videos)

PewDiePie did nothing wrong!