From WMUR:
QuoteShawn Joyce, president of Margaritas Management Group Inc., which owns seven restaurants in New Hampshire, has said most restaurant operators would prefer a statewide ban rather than being forced to enact their own.
Someone suggested boycotting MMG Inc restaurants, and FTL talked about you guys doing it so perhaps we should explore this. We think this is quite an interesting idea, and could result in media attention.
The seven "Maragaritas" restaurants are all around the state, and this would make for a great multi-regional protest/outreach. Manwich suggested signs like "MMG Inc Hates Freedom!". Perhaps each local group could patronize the mexican restaurant competition. This appears to be the competition in Keene, anyone been?
Armadillo's Burritos
82 Main St, Keene, NH
(603) 358-3700
What do you guys think about a pro-Liberty boycott?
I love the idea of pro liberty boycott. I boycott many things with my dollars.
Maybe we should also write letter and call MMG. If we could get 50-100 letters/emails/calls that might make them shake up a little.
Well here's the person to complain to if you want to give Margarita's a mouthful and tell them they've lost your business:
From Boston Globe:
"Shawn Joyce, president of Margaritas Management Group Inc., which owns seven restaurants in New Hampshire, has said most restaurant operators would prefer a statewide ban rather than being forced to enact their own."
<< Armadillo's Burritos
82 Main St, Keene, NH
(603) 358-3700>>
I've talked to the owner a while back and he seemed fairly pro freedom for some reason.
I read your other post Dada, and you make a good point. A public boycott may just bring them extra publicity. Perhaps people should just call Mr. Joyce and let him know you're not going patronize Margaritas until he publicly recants his cowardly statement?
Concord
1 Bicentennial Sq
(603) 224-2821
Keene
77 Main St
(603) 357-4492
Lebanon
18 Centerra Pky
(603) 643-8800
Manchester
1037 Elm St
(603) 647-7717
Nashua
1 Nashua Dr
(603) 883-0996
Portsmouth
775 Lafayette Rd
(603) 431-5828
Salem
1 Keewaydin Dr
(603) 893-0110
Main Office
200 Griffin Rd, Suite 1
Portsmouth, NH, 03801
(603) 430-8905
email: webmail@margs.com
On every full moon they hold a party and donate 5% of their gross lounge sales to local charities. http://www.margs.com/fullmoon.htm The next one is on April 13th.
These people aren't bad, but Mr. Joyce is severely misguided. Any boycott should be positive in nature, and not nasty. It should end as soon as they ban smoking on their own.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 07, 2006, 10:17 AM NHFT
These people aren't bad, but Mr. Joyce is severely misguided.
Having the gov't do you dirty work is bad. This guy is a coward.
Sending this to them:
webmail@margs.com
Msg. for Shawn Joyce
Mr. Joyce I'm a Keene resident and and restaurant-goer....who was saddened by your attempts to force a smoke ban on the entire state, especially considering all the smoke that flies around in your restaurants. It's morally wrong for you to try and impose your will into upon someone else's property.
I am boycotting your restaurants for now and urging my friends to do the same. But I look forward to the day when you have banned smoking on your own property and stopped attacking other people's property. When that day comes, I will be honored to patronize your business.
Quote from: Dreepa on April 07, 2006, 10:19 AM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 07, 2006, 10:17 AM NHFT
These people aren't bad, but Mr. Joyce is severely misguided.
Having the gov't do you dirty work is bad. This guy is a coward.
Yes, and yes. But if he can change his mind, then he won't be. We shouldn't burn bridges that don't need to be burned.
Ya Ian i think you're on track, we just need to email and/or call the head honcho....but not to back him into a corner or humiliate him; i hope my letter sets the right kind of tone.
remember the gandhi-ism: We must avoid being against individuals and concentrate on being against bad deeds and bad systems.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 07, 2006, 10:34 AM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on April 07, 2006, 10:19 AM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 07, 2006, 10:17 AM NHFT
These people aren't bad, but Mr. Joyce is severely misguided.
Having the gov't do you dirty work is bad. This guy is a coward.
Yes, and yes. But if he can change his mind, then he won't be. We shouldn't burn bridges that don't need to be burned.
Ok if he comes out and says that the law is bad and the companies should change on their own.
But I won't hold my breath.
If we put the proper type of pressure on him, he should change the policy. The question will be if he still calls for a statewide ban after that.
He can ban smoking in the restaurants he runs or not. He can recant. He still is of the belief that government should effect the rights of a whole lot of people to solve his whim. I say boycott them, let the stockholders and board know why and continue as long as he is still manager.
It's a private company.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 07, 2006, 11:32 AM NHFT
He can ban smoking in the restaurants he runs or not. He can recant. He still is of the belief that government should effect the rights of a whole lot of people to solve his whim. I say boycott them, let the stockholders and board know why and continue as long as he is still manager.
exactly
I can easily boycott Margaritas in Keene.
Armadillos carries our papers.
They are not the same kind of restaurants, but it will do the trick. You can see one from the other .... across the street.
Armadillos has a college hangout atmosphere and has little tables with stools.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 07, 2006, 03:21 PM NHFT
Armadillos has a college hangout atmosphere and has little tables with stools.
Hey that actually sounds pretty cool.... wish I lived closer to Keene... and had truckloads of free time to hangout in bars, like when I was in College! :D
Lloyd wrote:
<<I say boycott them, let the stockholders and board know why and continue as long as he is still manager.>>
Well that's what you can do if you wish but to me that is sort of attacking a person when, again, the most effective freedom lover only attacks deeds and systems.
Just got a nice note back from Mr. Joyce, more on that later.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 07, 2006, 06:15 PM NHFT
Lloyd wrote:
<<I say boycott them, let the stockholders and board know why and continue as long as he is still manager.>>
Well that's what you can do if you wish but to me that is sort of attacking a person when, again, the most effective freedom lover only attacks deeds and systems.
Deeds don't exist outside of people
However, I don't really care if we go after this guy or his company.
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 07, 2006, 10:17 AM NHFT
These people aren't bad, but Mr. Joyce is severely misguided. Any boycott should be positive in nature, and not nasty. It should end as soon as they ban smoking on their own.
If I'm not mistaken the Margaritas chain already bans smoking on their own.
I like Margaritas. Why do people want to boycott them?
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 13, 2006, 10:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 07, 2006, 10:17 AM NHFT
These people aren't bad, but Mr. Joyce is severely misguided. Any boycott should be positive in nature, and not nasty. It should end as soon as they ban smoking on their own.
If I'm not mistaken the Margaritas chain already bans smoking on their own.
Not according to every news article about it.
The owner is pushing for a state ban, because he's afraid to do it on his own.
Quote from: Nash on April 13, 2006, 10:55 PM NHFT
I like Margaritas. Why do people want to boycott them?
Because they want the state to ban smoking at their competitors' restaurants.
Smoking is a vice of the addicted and the uneducated. As society makes it more and more out of "style" to be a smoker, then people will naturally move away from it. It will be (and is) a generational issue that will change as the generations change. Remember the old movies when pretty sexy women would provocatively take a drag on their cigs? And the macho-man Marlboro man riding his horse. It's that between-the-lines sexual inuendo that was attractive.
I say smoking will take care of itself. People will stop when they've decided to or when they've decided to get help (if addicted). Some may need to wait for some type of life event like seeing a loved one suffer through a lung cancer death. Others will stop when they see that it's not cool anymore--which is the opposite reason they started in the first place--to be cool.
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
yes
Isn't Keene already smoke free? So boycotting the Keene Margarita's is not nearly effective as the others, IMHO. But I'm still going to do it - I have already been boycotting them since I didn't like the food very much and would prefer to spend my time money somewhere I really enjoy.
Quote from: KBCraig on April 13, 2006, 11:05 PM NHFT
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 13, 2006, 10:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: Jon Maltz on April 07, 2006, 10:17 AM NHFT
These people aren't bad, but Mr. Joyce is severely misguided. Any boycott should be positive in nature, and not nasty. It should end as soon as they ban smoking on their own.
If I'm not mistaken the Margaritas chain already bans smoking on their own.
Not according to every news article about it.
The owner is pushing for a state ban, because he's afraid to do it on his own.
Perhaps it's just the Keene branch. I was in that part of the state touring with one of my 04 candidates and we ate at Margaritas, which didn't allow smoking. Though doesn't Keene itself have a smoking ban? That might be it.
Quote from: Nash on April 14, 2006, 10:02 AM NHFT
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
Keene was the first NH city to ban smoking in restaurants.
Keene's Smoking Ban One Year Later (http://www.nhpr.org/node/4509)
Reported by Carolyn Martin on Friday, February 21, 2003
The city of Keene is marking the first anniversary of its smoking ban for restaurants.
The past year hasn't been a completely smooth transition, but now restaurant owners and diners seem to have adjusted to the city law, as Carolyn Martin of the Keene Sentinel reports.
Audio and rough transcript available at the above link.
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 14, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Nash on April 14, 2006, 10:02 AM NHFT
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 15, 2006, 07:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 14, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Nash on April 14, 2006, 10:02 AM NHFT
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.
No! Call in OSHA! That's what we pay our taxes for!
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 14, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Nash on April 14, 2006, 10:02 AM NHFT
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
No, it's just the excuse.
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 14, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
And, that has also been refuted, something the anti-smoking people ignore.
I allready started boycotting them when I read what Shawn Joyce said. That was before I read this thread. The lazy bastards arn't open for lunch anyway.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 15, 2006, 07:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 14, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Nash on April 14, 2006, 10:02 AM NHFT
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.
It's a touchy subject when you're talking about unskilled labor like much of the help in a restaurant/bar. So long as the government interferes in the economy via excessive regulation they create a buyer's market for labor - more to the point the government creates a paradigm wherein there are fewer jobs than people. So unskilled workers don't always have the opportunity to leave a job and find employment elsewhere.
I don't agree with how this argument is framed, but many in the general public do. Telling them that workers can leave if they don't like it doesn't fly. A better approach is to explain WHY there is a buyer's market for unskilled labor and how we can fix it.
Quote from: KBCraig on April 15, 2006, 10:51 AM NHFT
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 14, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Nash on April 14, 2006, 10:02 AM NHFT
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
No, it's just the excuse.
Excuse or not, we're not in the position to determine what is at the center of the public discourse. If that's how they want to frame the debate, then that's the framework in which we must operate if we ever want to change things.
Quote from: Rearden on April 16, 2006, 03:16 AM NHFT
The Keene anti-smoking ordinance has been found unenforceable, because the state has not passed that authority onto the towns and cities. So, even though the ordinance is on the books, it's meaningless.
Correct, some brave restaurant owner in Keene needs to step up and file suit in court so the city ordinance can be overturned.
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 16, 2006, 06:55 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 15, 2006, 07:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 14, 2006, 09:42 PM NHFT
Quote from: Nash on April 14, 2006, 10:02 AM NHFT
Let the restaurants ban smoking on their own without any new laws. People will vote with their feet.
Just so everybody knows, the pro-smoking-ban position is that second hand smoke affects the workers. That's the question at the center of the public discourse on this issue.
If employees think that 'anything' in the workplace is dangerous to their health, they can leave.
It's a touchy subject when you're talking about unskilled labor like much of the help in a restaurant/bar. So long as the government interferes in the economy via excessive regulation they create a buyer's market for labor - more to the point the government creates a paradigm wherein there are fewer jobs than people. So unskilled workers don't always have the opportunity to leave a job and find employment elsewhere.
I don't agree with how this argument is framed, but many in the general public do. Telling them that workers can leave if they don't like it doesn't fly. A better approach is to explain WHY there is a buyer's market for unskilled labor and how we can fix it.
The market for labor skilled or unskilled varies depending on the economy. When there is a shortage of labor and a good economy, the shoe is on the other foot and labor calls the shots. I remember in the early eighties in the Hartford area McDonalds was offering $6.00 an hour to start, due to the shortage of entry level labor.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 16, 2006, 07:21 PM NHFT
The market for labor skilled or unskilled varies depending on the economy. When there is a shortage of labor and a good economy, the shoe is on the other foot and labor calls the shots. I remember in the early eighties in the Hartford area McDonalds was offering $6.00 an hour to start, due to the shortage of entry level labor.
True, but the shortages of labor you speak about are the exception, not the standard, especially in the restaurant and bar industries. Two associates of mine have owned or operated restaurants, one in a rural NY town and one in a posh suburb of NYC, and to my knowledge neither have ever had to make concessions to attract employees.
No, there is no standard. Sometimes there is a shortage of labor and sometimes there is a surplus. I have been observing the US economy for 35 years. I have seen college grads pumping gas and I have seen people with 5th grade educations offered apprenticeships in manufacturing for real good starting money. It always depended on the condition of the economy at the time.
I agree the condition of the economy at any given time probably is probably, the result of government fucking around with interest rates, inflation and war, but, employers do not always call the shots. That is a myth, perpetuated by the 'economics' challenged left.
In our town almost every restaurant is looking for workers.
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 16, 2006, 06:57 PM NHFT
Correct, some brave restaurant owner in Keene needs to step up and file suit in court so the city ordinance can be overturned.
...or just ignore the "law". I am sure there are many laws covering my business, but I don't bother with them.
The American Colonists didn't win by filing suit in British courts ..... neither did the Kelo 7 .... nor will we.
Anyone want to write a short explaination of the boycott for the Keene Free Press? (today :) )
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 16, 2006, 10:24 PM NHFT
No, there is no standard. Sometimes there is a shortage of labor and sometimes there is a surplus. I have been observing the US economy for 35 years. I have seen college grads pumping gas and I have seen people with 5th grade educations offered apprenticeships in manufacturing for real good starting money. It always depended on the condition of the economy at the time.
Manufacturing can involve skilled labor, hence the offers. I've seen quite a few initiatives to get labor into manufacturing and trades. But I don't think many places will offer an apprenticeship for waiting tables or flipping burgers. I don't want to make it sound like I'm contesting your claim, because I've seen labor markets that favor employees as well, but compared to the contrary they're few and far between.
Quote
I agree the condition of the economy at any given time probably is probably, the result of government fucking around with interest rates, inflation and war, but, employers do not always call the shots. That is a myth, perpetuated by the 'economics' challenged left.
You're right, as I stated in my previous post, they don't
always call the shots. But they
often call the shots.
Quote from: katdillon on April 17, 2006, 06:59 AM NHFT
Anyone want to write a short explaination of the boycott for the Keene Free Press? (today :) )
One should have real evidence that Shawn Joyce pushed for the anti-smoking bill.
Yes, I checked into it. He wrote an article for the union leader. google his name and margaritas smoking.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2006, 03:24 AM NHFT
In our town almost every restaurant is looking for workers.
Quote from: Incrementalist on April 16, 2006, 06:57 PM NHFT
Correct, some brave restaurant owner in Keene needs to step up and file suit in court so the city ordinance can be overturned.
...or just ignore the "law". I am sure there are many laws covering my business, but I don't bother with them.
The American Colonists didn't win by filing suit in British courts ..... neither did the Kelo 7 .... nor will we.
So ignore the law, and somebody will file suit against you for ignoring the ban. Either way you end up in court with them and you can have the law overturned. But don't think that you'll win by simply ignoring the law, there isn't enough of a popular support base for that strategy to work.
As for the American Colonists, they fought a gruesome bloody war to free themselves from the British, it wasn't a matter of ignoring laws, it was a matter of violenty lashing out. If you're ready for that, then work for that, but they didn't just ignore the law and make the world a better place (in fact they are prime examples of people who used the political and legal system to their advantage before finally deciding it was better to go to war than work with the British).
Quote from: katdillon on April 17, 2006, 06:59 AM NHFT
Anyone want to write a short explaination of the boycott for the Keene Free Press? (today :) )
I sent something to Russell c/o of the KFP
I'm sorry I ever called you a curmudgeon. Thanks, Lloyd!! :D
Oh! So it was you who started that! :P
Who me? :angel4:
I don't go to Maragaritas anyways I think it is a dump.
So it sounds like the boycott is on then?
I haven't been there since you brought up the Boycott. Of course, I've only been there once in 20 years, or, so.
Quote from: Happy Dude on April 17, 2006, 10:45 AM NHFT
I don't go to Maragaritas anyways I think it is a dump.
What must the Margaritas guy think of your place then. :crazy3: :Bolt:
Whew, had, to, remove, a, lot, of, commas, from, that, boycott, article!
Please, send them back, then.
I tend to overpunctuate when I'm under a lot of deadline pressure :P
Hermano's Mexican Resturant in Concord has been smoke (and cell phone) free for a bunch of years now. The place is always packed on Friday and Saturday nights.
Let the Smokers have Margaritas. It suits them.
Quote from: Tunga on April 17, 2006, 07:09 PM NHFT
Hermano's Mexican Resturant in Concord has been smoke (and cell phone) free for a bunch of years now. The place is always packed on Friday and Saturday nights.
Let the Smokers have Margaritas. It suits them.
Yeah, but they have no parking because of the Capitol Commons construction. ;D And they don't like guns.
Hello all,
My name is Ben Franklin and I own MargaritasSucks.com. I'm not much of a copywriter but if someone wants to write something up about boycotting them, I'll make a website around it. If you fellows are interested, just tell me what to say. I'm sure (margaritas) will love it.
Quote from: Ben Franklin on April 25, 2006, 09:13 PM NHFT
My name is Ben Franklin and I own MargaritasSucks.com. I'm not much of a copywriter but if someone wants to write something up about boycotting them, I'll make a website around it.
Ben,
Wow! For taking
action you get applause from me!
P.S. I loved your work on the "bi-focal" eyeglasses. Pure genious ;)
Lloyd wrote a little article about it, which is in the current issue of the Keene Free Press:
http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=98&Itemid=44
Quote from: Tunga on April 17, 2006, 07:09 PM NHFT
Hermano's Mexican Resturant
Does this mean that Tunga is Mexican?
Quote from: Ben Franklin on April 25, 2006, 09:13 PM NHFT
Hello all,
My name is Ben Franklin and I own MargaritasSucks.com.
So why don't you like them?
LOL nice Kevin. :)
Seen in my wanders through Concord yesterday:
Cheers will be going smoke-free as of June 1.
Barley House will be smoke-free as of July 4.
Yea .... was that so hard?
A little sparse margaritassucks.com (http://margaritassucks.com)
Less sparse than it was!