I'll start this thread.
Shelter is a necessity. What kind? What if there is no power? No gasoline or diesel available for a generator?
Heating with wood could be a necessity. Cooking also. Are you prepared?
An alternative fuel you could create yourself is ethanol. Here is a link to an ethanol still:
http://www.ethanolstill.com/index.html
Perhaps join in with friends or neighbors to produce your own fuel.
Some construction is more energy efficient, if you have time and money to go that route. Are they still a good option if you are cut off from all power and most outside resources like factory trained repairmen? Does the housing market realisically have any available, or do you really have to do it from scratch? If there isn't enough time to complete a long range project and suddenly resources and supplies are hard to come by, what kind of construction can be accomplished by regular folk?
Cathleen
Below is an article from a 1974 MEN that I found in their archives. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1974_May_June/How_To_Run_Your_car_On_Wood
Here is the address to Mother arth News. If you go to archives, you can go thru each issue. The first 10 are very informitive.
http://www.motherearthnews.com/
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 05, 2006, 10:22 AM NHFT
Below is an article from a 1974 MEN that I found in their archives. http://www.motherearthnews.com/Green-Transportation/1974_May_June/How_To_Run_Your_car_On_Wood
Here is a link to plans and instructions for this: http://www.gengas.nu/byggbes/contents.shtml
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
Shelter is a necessity.
And food, I think the two go together. Your shelter should facilitate growing your own food. Also I think shelter includes more than the room over your head, for example your garden and land/property should be considered part of your shelter.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
What kind?
That depends very much on your means (money) and environment (trees, clay, dirt, etc).
ICFInsulated Concrete Forms is a great option, costs just a slightly bit more than stick built but provides a bullet proof, air tight, super insulated. This is the stuff bunkers are built out of. You would design your house, measure all the walls, send your measurements to an ICF manufacturer, they will give you a quote, you buy the forms and they ship them to you. The forms are basically oversized styrofoam legos that you put together yourself. You can only do 10 feet at a time vertically but as much as you want horizontally. Then after you have your wall built up to 10ft and it's well braced, you order a concrete truck and pour concrete into the styrofoam forms. Once the concrete hardens the styrofoam acts as insulation (you can get it in R20 or R40). Some manufacturers also offer concrete flooring options and roofing.
There are many other manufacturers, I can provide a list if anyone is interested. The forms themselves can get pretty expensive. For an average house look at spending between $5k-$10k on the forms.
Here is a house being built using QuadLock ICF (http://quadlock.com/):
(http://www.quadlock.com/images/residential/curves3.jpg)
Other building options include:
* Stone: you can do slip-form (make a wooden form, place stone inside and fill in back with cement), hybrid slip-form (build house out of stick, use the stick wall as guide) or old-school stone building (without any forms or stick built wall guides..)
* Mud: this ultimately depends on what kind of dirt you have on your property, if you have the right kind of clay/mud you can make your own bricks or just plaster a house together like you would a pot :-) There is a lot of variations and labels for the art of building out of mud/dirt.
* Stick/Wood: this is the easiest to do because a lot of people have experience and you can easly find help. The minus is that wood is getting expensive, it rots and not as sturdy as a concrete/masonry or clay house. Of course with enough wood it is possible to build a very strong and super insulated house.
* Straw/Bale: I don't know much about this method but there is a lot of people doing it.
I'm sure I missed something but if anyone wants me to give a more thurough explanation just ask, i can also provide a lot of books and resources on this topic. I've been researching this stuff for over a year now. I'm in the process of building my house as well, probably going to go with ICF.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
What if there is no power?
There is always power (sun, wind, water) you just have to harness it.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
No gasoline or diesel available for a generator?
Preferably you don't even need a generator and can get most of your electricity from the sun, wind or water. For transportation nothing beats a horse when you're out of gas :-) They get their fuel from free grass growing your pasture.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
Heating with wood could be a necessity.
You should be heating with wood anyways. Heating with wood is superior to all the other alternatives. Granted your house has to be designed and built around a masonry wood stove to be very efficient but it's worth it in the long run.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
Cooking also. Are you prepared?
Gas is definitely the best for cooking but wood is an alternative that should be ready to be used as a backup. Although it depends on who you ask, when i was growing up in Ukraine my grandma liked her tiny iron cooking stove that she had outside. She always used it in the summer and preferred it over the gas stove that she had. I guess once you get used to it, it's not that bad.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 10:05 AM NHFT
An alternative fuel you could create yourself is ethanol. Here is a link to an ethanol still:
http://www.ethanolstill.com/index.html
Perhaps join in with friends or neighbors to produce your own fuel.
I think that's more of a luxury than a necessity. Sure it's nice to get around in a car, but do you think it would be safe and prudent to do so when the shit has hit the fan and people seeing you driving in a car may wonder whether you also have other things... like food? Anyways, I'd definitely try making fuel after the collapse but it wouldn't be a priority I don't think.
QuoteI think that's more of a luxury than a necessity. Sure it's nice to get around in a car, but do you think it would be safe and prudent to do so when the shit has hit the fan and people seeing you driving in a car may wonder whether you also have other things... like food? Anyways, I'd definitely try making fuel after the collapse but it wouldn't be a priority I don't think.
Lex, I was thinking fuel for tractors and trucks. Also for a generator for such things as refridgeration.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:28 PM NHFT
Lex, I was thinking fuel for tractors and trucks.
Tractor (draft horses):
(http://www.alconaradio.org/images/2004%20fair/2004%20Fair/DRAFT%20HORSE%20001.jpg)
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:28 PM NHFT
Also for a generator for such things as refridgeration.
You can generate electricity to power your fridge from solar panels, wind and water turbines. Also we are lucky here because most of the year it's cold, I believe in the last Popular Mechanics there was an article about a guy who built a pantry on the outside of his house, it acted like a fridge. It had all sorts of gadgets built in to make it work like a fridge, used very little to zero power.
And of course, there is always the cellar.
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:44 PM NHFT
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 12:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:44 PM NHFT
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.
You apparently grew up with farm animals. For those of us who didn't, it is a daunting proposition. I grew up a carpenter's son in an urban setting. We had a garden, but no animals. I can build anything with wood, but know little about animals other than chickens. A neighbor had a chicken farm and I helped out some, not a lot.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 01:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 12:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:44 PM NHFT
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.
You apparently grew up with farm animals. For those of us who didn't, it is a daunting proposition. I grew up a carpenter's son in an urban setting. We had a garden, but no animals. I can build anything with wood, but know little about animals other than chickens. A neighbor had a chicken farm and I helped out some, not a lot.
Actually, I lived most of my life in some of the biggest cities. I grew up in Kiev, Ukraine, then lived for many years in Chicago, IL, then in Arlington, VA and finally I'm here :-)
When I was in Ukraine I spent summers with different family at summer houses and we did a lot of gardening. Not many of them had animals (because it was too much of hassle to have animals if you are just there for the summer). My experience with goats is from a lady who lived next to our summer house all year round. We always bought milk from her when we were there. My wife is a horse trainer and owns a thuroughbred but once we get a stable built we'll definitely get a draft horse or two and probably another horse for just riding.
Animals aren't hard, the biggest thing is not forgetting to feed them, everything else will work out as long as you are "animal friendly". If you treat them well, feed them and keep them warm in winter, then they'll return the favor... unless you have goats, those are rotten animals, but they do have the best milk :-)
When I get to NH I fully intend to build a cob house. I think cob is the most beautiful (and the cheapest!) building material. Apparently it's pretty good for cold environments also (dirt is a very good insulator). Many hundred-year-old cob homes are still standing. They just need a bit of maintainance from time to time. But you can't beat $00.50 per square foot!
(http://www.potkettleblack.com/bang/littlebangpics/bang027.jpg)
(http://www.chicobco.com/cob-house-in-Eco-Village.gif)
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 01:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 01:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 12:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:44 PM NHFT
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.
You apparently grew up with farm animals. For those of us who didn't, it is a daunting proposition. I grew up a carpenter's son in an urban setting. We had a garden, but no animals. I can build anything with wood, but know little about animals other than chickens. A neighbor had a chicken farm and I helped out some, not a lot.
Actually, I lived most of my life in some of the biggest cities. I grew up in Kiev, Ukraine, then lived for many years in Chicago, IL, then in Arlington, VA and finally I'm here :-)
When I was in Ukraine I spent summers with different family at summer houses and we did a lot of gardening. Not many of them had animals (because it was too much of hassle to have animals if you are just there for the summer). My experience with goats is from a lady who lived next to our summer house all year round. We always bought milk from her when we were there. My wife is a horse trainer and owns a thuroughbred but once we get a stable built we'll definitely get a draft horse or two and probably another horse for just riding.
Animals aren't hard, the biggest thing is not forgetting to feed them, everything else will work out as long as you are "animal friendly". If you treat them well, feed them and keep them warm in winter, then they'll return the favor... unless you have goats, those are rotten animals, but they do have the best milk :-)
Have you had goat meat. A friend of mine who married a woman from the Phillipines says it is the best meat. He loves it.
What is it made of? It has a stucco finish, but is it mud, or what?
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 01:28 PM NHFT
Have you had goat meat. A friend of mine who married a woman from the Phillipines says it is the best meat. He loves it.
I've never had goat meat. It would be interesting to try it though.
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 01:30 PM NHFT
What is it made of? It has a stucco finish, but is it mud, or what?
I believe cob is mud, yes.
Quote
Cob is a building material consisting of clay, sand, straw, water, and earth. Cob is fireproof, resistant to seismic activity, and inexpensive. It can be used to create artistic, sculptural forms and has been revived in recent years by the natural building and sustainability movements.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cob_%28building%29
Cob is mud+sand+straw and sometimes with manure too, usually with some sort of natural plaster on top.
The trick is getting it the perfect consistency, supposedly almost as good as light grade concrete.
I love goat meat! I am vaguely aware that they aren't very pleasant to raise. They rip up the roots of anything they forage, stripping land quickly.
Cathleen
You could rent out your goat for poison ivy removal.
Only if my poison ivy has been taken care of. Didn't I hear that an increase of poison ivy is due to global warming and the antedote is fern fronds? Maybe that was a dream.
Cathleen
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 12:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:44 PM NHFT
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.
The horse requires fuel wether it is doing work, or, not. Visits from the Veternary are more critical and expensive than from the tractor repair guy. Another problem with large domestic animals is someone has to be around to take care of them. You could build an automated feeding system to feed chickens and dogs.
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 01:25 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 01:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 12:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:44 PM NHFT
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.
You apparently grew up with farm animals. For those of us who didn't, it is a daunting proposition. I grew up a carpenter's son in an urban setting. We had a garden, but no animals. I can build anything with wood, but know little about animals other than chickens. A neighbor had a chicken farm and I helped out some, not a lot.
Actually, I lived most of my life in some of the biggest cities. I grew up in Kiev, Ukraine, then lived for many years in Chicago, IL, then in Arlington, VA and finally I'm here :-)
When I was in Ukraine I spent summers with different family at summer houses and we did a lot of gardening. Not many of them had animals (because it was too much of hassle to have animals if you are just there for the summer). My experience with goats is from a lady who lived next to our summer house all year round. We always bought milk from her when we were there. My wife is a horse trainer and owns a thuroughbred but once we get a stable built we'll definitely get a draft horse or two and probably another horse for just riding.
Animals aren't hard, the biggest thing is not forgetting to feed them, everything else will work out as long as you are "animal friendly". If you treat them well, feed them and keep them warm in winter, then they'll return the favor... unless you have goats, those are rotten animals, but they do have the best milk :-)
Well......there ya go! You're already in the 'large animal, someones always gotta be around' business!
Quote from: cathleeninnh on June 05, 2006, 02:18 PM NHFT
Only if my poison ivy has been taken care of. Didn't I hear that an increase of poison ivy is due to global warming and the antedote is fern fronds? Maybe that was a dream.
Cathleen
I used to use fern fronds on stinging nettle rashes. You have to get the fronds with the spores on the back.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on June 05, 2006, 09:29 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on June 05, 2006, 12:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: AlanM on June 05, 2006, 12:44 PM NHFT
While agree with your idea of draft horses, I have no experience with such. Such a thing takes knowledge and experience. I am learning a lot about survival, and doing without, but some things take more time to master. What if things fall apart fairly soon?
Making your own fuel is just as, if not more, complicated than having a horse.
The horse requires fuel wether it is doing work, or, not. Visits from the Veternary are more critical and expensive than from the tractor repair guy. Another problem with large domestic animals is someone has to be around to take care of them. You could build an automated feeding system to feed chickens and dogs.
An automated feeding system is even easier for horses and such. You build a 3 sided shelter in the pasture (should have one anyways) so they can excape cold and wind and rain. Buy a large round bale (huge bale of hay) place in pasture. Leave. Vet visits- stables are horrible for the health of horses. I've never known a horse that lives out side to need a vet for anything other than a run in with a poorly maintained fence. Horses do not need heated barns, fluffy shavings, grain, indoor arenas, trailers... all that is for the convience of people, at the cost of the horse's health. That's why you always hear of people complaining how expensive horses are ;). Oh, food for a horse costs WAY WAY less than gas. 50 a month for a regular sized horse, 100 for a draft. I'll bet you're spending 3 times that for gas right now. In the summers, if you rotate your pastures properly and don't let them overgraze a pasture, you should have free food for a few months.
Quote from: katdillon on June 06, 2006, 09:28 AM NHFT
Quote from: cathleeninnh on June 05, 2006, 02:18 PM NHFT
Only if my poison ivy has been taken care of. Didn't I hear that an increase of poison ivy is due to global warming and the antedote is fern fronds? Maybe that was a dream.
Cathleen
I used to use fern fronds on stinging nettle rashes. You have to get the fronds with the spores on the back.
I found more on ferns in Organic Housekeeping by Ellen Sandbeck.
"In 1980, experiments conducted at NASA's John C. Stennis Space Center in Mississippi showed that houseplants placed in sealed test chambers were capable of removing large concentrations of chemical contaminants from the air.....The following common chemicals were successfully and efficiently removed from the airby NASA's houseplants: benzene, formaldehyde, xylene, toluene, acetone, methyl alcohol, ethyl acetate, ammonia, trichloroethylene, and carbon monoxide....NASA experiments showed that houseplants reduced the indoor concentration of molds and bacteria by 50 to 60 percent. The researchers also found some evidence that radon was also absorbed and sequestered in the plants' tissues.... Dr. Wolverton gave the following houseplants very high ratings: Areca palm...Lady palm...Bamboo palm...Rubber plant... and Boston fern."
Cathleen
Quote from: cathleeninnh on June 05, 2006, 02:18 PM NHFT
Only if my poison ivy has been taken care of. Didn't I hear that an increase of poison ivy is due to global warming and the antedote is fern fronds? Maybe that was a dream.
Cathleen
Jewelweed for nettles and poison ivy is awesome.
One of the biggest problems concerning the "overgrowth" of poison ivy (and ticks, and mosquitoes) is anthropogenic. We've cleared so much land and altered the nutritional content of the soils to the point that poison ivy thrives in the wake of our disturbance. I would hardly say that it's made any significant increase, however, expecially relative to the way that mosquitoes and ticks have become issues. Again, caused by human interference with the natural processes.
-M