Interesting knowledge for future events:
http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/police/rosters.htm
8)
How about something like this for the future:
KFP reporters with a video camera meet with the Chief and Sheriff and ask them to go voluntarily funded...
....and we have too many cops in our city.
How Big is Keene?
Tracy
Quote from: tracysaboe on July 20, 2006, 01:17 AM NHFT
How Big is Keene?
Tracy
Seriously, use google.
http://www.google.com
http://www.ci.keene.nh.us/
http://www.hometownusa.com/nh/Keene.html
http://www.city-data.com/city/Keene-New-Hampshire.html
22,563
Fine. I just thought somebody who lives there might know it off the top of their heads.
Don't be so grumpy TN.
Back to the topic at hand.
Do you think it'd be possible to convince 50 people (50 people -- they can't take all of us on.) to refuse to pay their property taxes?
50 people all spread out around the town. There's no WAY they'd be able to rade all those homes and steal them.
You just need 50 people! (well, actually 50 seperate residences.)
Do you think you could find 50 people in a city of 22 thousand who own their own property and refuse to pay taxes?
You might even get a few landlords tell all their tenants and they'll lower their rent if the tenent doesn't mind the land-lord not paying property taxes.
Tracy
Quote from: tracysaboe on July 20, 2006, 02:25 AM NHFT
22,563
Fine. I just thought somebody who lives there might know it off the top of their heads.
Don't be so grumpy TN.
You are welcome :'(
Thank you :-\
Tracy
Quote from: tracysaboe on July 20, 2006, 02:25 AM NHFT
Do you think it'd be possible to convince 50 people (50 people -- they can't take all of us on.) to refuse to pay their property taxes?
50 people all spread out around the town. There's no WAY they'd be able to rade all those homes and steal them.
Sure they would: one home at a time, where the odds are 50:1 or 50:2, then move on to the next home.
I think 50 could decide to stop writing those checks. I think the way we get there is 1 by 1.
I agree with KB .... they can gang up on us ...... or even get reinforcements.
In NoLA cops from other states were disarming the populace.
"outnumber the cops"...?
::) *sigh* ::)
Brute force and mass numbers.
The typical, brutish, mobocratic tactics of the CD crowd.
Rather than use respectful discussion and educational engagement,
rather than peacefully and resolutely winning the hearts and minds of the locals,
the childish path of emotion over reason.
The heavy-handed tactics that the overwhelming majority of NH locals -- who will always outnumber us by ten-thousand fold -- find absolutely revolting, thereby making it exponentially harder for us to actually get the desired changes effected.
If your strategy centers on engaging, educating, and helping NH natives, you will win hearts and minds -- think "Marshall Plan".
If your strategy centers on taking to the streets with (to the average onlooker) outrageous theatrics and immediate demands -- think "Afghani quagmire".
Liberty was lost by freedom's opponents winning in step-by-step increments.
Liberty will be returned in that fashion as well... or not at all.
Before you start going off the deep end, Denis. What I had in mind when I got this info was a mass public smoke-out.
Considering that the best place for such a thing to happen would be in front of the Police Department, it seemed like a good idea to check the numbers.
Do you consider that "heavy handed" or "brute force"? I just consider it pot smokers coming out of the closet.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 20, 2006, 09:25 AM NHFT
Before you start going off the deep end, Denis.
Waaaay too late for that. The deep end is usually where I start. But y'all knew that ;)
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 20, 2006, 09:25 AM NHFT
What I had in mind when I got this info was a mass public smoke-out.
Do you consider that "heavy handed" or "brute force"?
Depends on how it is managed.
Depends on how the mom & pop folks in Keene take to it.
I think of Michael's "outlaw manicure" as the perfect, elegant CD.
He did his research, he knew what he was doing and the relevant RSA's.
He did not depend on a "mob" presence and had the bravery to know he was going to jail.
It was an act that every single person -- no matter how "normal" -- could look at, and realize: "the police are acting like thugs here. It ain't right!"
I am not so sure those same, average folks won't see "a bunch of damn hippies demanding that they can smoke dope", and then be turned off by the whole thing.
Needs more subtlely. Just my humble opinion.
Denis, you should know better. Not all pot smokers are "hippies", and that would be a key part of the protest, having "regular" looking people, members of the community that other people know, out there smoking. Not just dreadlocked tye-dye wearers!
I'd love your input on what you'd consider an ideal "coming out" pot protest.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 20, 2006, 09:49 AM NHFT
Denis, you should know better. Not all pot smokers are "hippies"
I, of all people, do indeed know that for sure. ;D
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 20, 2006, 09:49 AM NHFT
that would be a key part of the protest, having "regular" looking people, members of the community that other people know, out there smoking. Not just dreadlocked tye-dye wearers!
Amen, brother (using "amen" in the truly solemn way only atheists can 8) )
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 20, 2006, 09:49 AM NHFT
I'd love your input on what you'd consider an ideal "coming out" pot protest.
I'm glad you asked :D
You want a protest? Hell, come join us (yes,
us, including me) at the MassCan (http://www.masscann.org/) rally on September 16th in Boston. There will be thousands of people there. many will be smoking pot. And, like all the MassCan rallies, and like all the NORML rallies, over the past 25+ years. They're fun, they're a useful place to meet & educate people about Freedom, but like the LP, they haven't made a direct effect on one single state.
My suggestion: don't make it a "protest" in the old, tired, hasn't-worked-for-the-last-30-years sense.
Instead, make it an "activist action" in the connected, FSP, has-been-tried-
and-succeeded sense.
Let's start with what we can all agree on: in the immediate term, we want people to be able to make a personal choice about their own marijuana use, without being interfered with by the police. We want many other things related to this, but this we certainly agree on. Moreover, many upstanding NH residents can agree to this 'live-and-let-live' policy on principle, even if they themselves think MJ is a Really Bad Idea (in the same way you think alcohol is a Really Bad Idea, though of course the case against alcohol stands up to scientific scrutiny, whereas the case against MJ does not)
A bill is expected to come up next session, that would decriminalize "personal-use" amounts of MJ.
You, like me, and like many fine residents of NH, want the police to stop spending their time and our money arresting peaceful pot smokers.
The
most direct way to make that happen is to get this bill passed.
In turn, the
most effective way to get this bill passed is to have dozens and dozens of fine, respectable, articulate people appear before the relevant legislative committees, and make their case there.
If we can have a stream of responsible, respectable people: doctors, lawyers, mothers, fathers, homeowners, city workers, restaurant workers, people who lend a hand at the Salvation Army food drive, people who volunteer at the animal shelter... all of them dressed nicely, speaking curteously but firmly, and insisting that their right to choose what they do on their own property, that hurts nobody other than themselves, is guaranteed by the US and NH Constitutions. Have them organize their thoughts ahead of time, make their points brief but memorable, briefly share any personal stories, and maybe even practice their speeches on each other a few times before facing the commitee (which is often intimidating, even though it shouldn't be -- just like calling in to radio programs)
Get these people and those who agree with us to send waves of LTEs to every newspaper in the State.
Get them to call, write letters, and email their Reps and Senators.
Ensure that the entire movement is done peacefully, respectfully (http://freestateblogs.net/files/images/1177_Johnson.mp3), and 100% fully within the current existing law.
Join us liberty-lovers all together in doing the above, and the chances are very good that by this time next year, we'll be using this victory as yet another, even more powerful reason for liberty-lovers to come to New Hampshire now.I am so sure this will work, because that's exactly how it has worked in the other states where personal-use MJ has been legalized, and it's exactly how we killed a smoking ban despite the best efforts of well-funded, organized political lobbyists.
What do you say?
So crazy it just might work?
Worth a shot?
I think I've made it clear I have not given up on politics in NH. It's definitely worth a shot.
It wouldn't be fair of me to be jaded about NH politics because of my negative experience in FL. I'm still jaded in general towards politics, but I have not ruled it out for NH. From what I can tell, the political realm is very different there. I think the dual-pronged approach is necessary, CD/Protests and Politics.
How many people get arrested at MassCann? I don't know if I want to spend time in jail in MA.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 20, 2006, 12:43 PM NHFT
I think I've made it clear I have not given up on politics in NH. It's definitely worth a shot.
:grouphug:
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 20, 2006, 12:43 PM NHFT
How many people get arrested at MassCann?
Only those who make a point of trying to... like, blowing pot smoke in the police officer's face and saying, "you don't got the balls to arrest me, mofo!"
The police at MassCan almost never walk deep into the crowd (unless there's a fight or medical emergency), and it's deep in the crowd that some people have been known to light up the wacky tobbaccy.
The time I went there didn't seem to be any arrests.
Whats wrong with hippies?
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on July 20, 2006, 04:48 PM NHFT
Whats wrong with hippies?
Nothing at all... until they get old and curmudgeonly ;) :P ;D
Quote from: d_goddard on July 20, 2006, 09:17 AM NHFT
Brute force and mass numbers.
The typical, brutish, mobocratic tactics...
Isn't this what voting is, by definition? Always trying to outnumber your opponents? Isn't that the heart of all political action? Getting the votes...i.e. outnumbering the other poor slobs.
Quote from: d_goddard on July 20, 2006, 09:17 AM NHFT
"outnumber the cops"...?
::) *sigh* ::)
Brute force and mass numbers.
The typical, brutish, mobocratic tactics of the CD crowd.
Gee Denis I started reading your message and thought yeah he has it right... until I got to the assumption that the CD crowd has a monopoly on this idea. Isn't democracy mob rule... if we get enough people we win?
The CD that you later point to that was successful is the MLK, Ganhdi, Jesus approach... which goes along with your hearts and minds approach. We all sometimes suffer from "Myopic Vision" and "Flawed Assumptions". This nonsense that either you support having to beg the legislature or you want to throw a brick through a Star Bucks window is just polarization.
Politics polarizes people most of the time... not that it isn't an avenue to pursue, just don't think that the radicals have a monopoly on turning off the citizens. I've seen folks like Caleb and Russell make friends and allies with the broader audience, while I've also watched politico's call anyone who isn't conservative commies and turn off even me who is on their side.
As an example of how radical ideas have more traction than we sometimes believe... today some progressive folks I was talking to out of the blue were speaking favorably of secession. It doesn't mean that it will happen, but if we give people a chance to see that others are unhappy and want radical change it can shift things in a favorable direction.
On the marijuana issue... people that have had love ones punished by these ridiculous laws are our best hope of having the incentive to want to change the laws. Pot is defacto legal to anyone that wants to sit in their house and get high. That is why most users are not all up in arms about it. The current enforcement (mostly) catches the "low hanging fruit", the young and minorities that are easy prey to the cops. And make no mistake about it... it is a massive jobs program for the enforcers, courts, jails and "treatment" industries. If you think the beauty shop owners fought to protect their profits... that's small potatoes compared to this.
Just my thoughts. ;)
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on July 20, 2006, 04:48 PM NHFT
Whats wrong with hippies?
Hey Lloyd...as best I can remember nothin! :)...Believe many of the folks, spent to much
time believen what they read in the books, or watchin those specials on TV! ;D
Ian, I like your idea of a smoke-out but after being at porcfest I don't know what type of turnout you might get. A speaker there from Norml asked by a show of hands how many people smoked marijuana and I was shocked to see maybe 10 people raise their hands. I think it is sad that even porcupines won't even admit to smoking while in a group of Free Staters. :'(
QuoteIsn't democracy mob rule...
not if done within a deliberative body (like town meeting) as people can not be easily manipulated in direct, face-to-face, human-scale democracy.
Quotetoday some progressive folks I was talking to out of the blue were speaking favorably of secession.
not if it means going back to "robber baron" capitalism - that is not progress...
Quote from: slim on July 22, 2006, 11:20 AM NHFT
Ian, I like your idea of a smoke-out but after being at porcfest I don't know what type of turnout you might get. A speaker there from Norml asked by a show of hands how many people smoked marijuana and I was shocked to see maybe 10 people raise their hands. I think it is sad that even porcupines won't even admit to smoking while in a group of Free Staters. :'(
maybe the people at Porcfest just personally think smoking pot is a dumb idea...not because it is illegal.
I must have been out getting high. I don't remember that speaker.
Quote from: slim on July 22, 2006, 11:20 AM NHFT
Ian, I like your idea of a smoke-out but after being at porcfest I don't know what type of turnout you might get. A speaker there from Norml asked by a show of hands how many people smoked marijuana and I was shocked to see maybe 10 people raise their hands. I think it is sad that even porcupines won't even admit to smoking while in a group of Free Staters. :'(
Well, there are a number of admitted pot smokers that are heading to Keene. It would not take a huge number to make it a newsworthy event.
One or two cops can bust a lot of people, I don't think there's a shortage of handcuffs. All they have to do is ID you and get you at a later point.
Quote from: slim on July 22, 2006, 11:20 AM NHFT
Ian, I like your idea of a smoke-out but after being at porcfest I don't know what type of turnout you might get. A speaker there from Norml asked by a show of hands how many people smoked marijuana and I was shocked to see maybe 10 people raise their hands. I think it is sad that even porcupines won't even admit to smoking while in a group of Free Staters. :'(
Or maybe they really don't smoke it. Maybe they believe their's more to freedom then being able to smoke dope.
Tracy
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 12:34 PM NHFT
It would not take a huge number to make it a newsworthy event.
Not to beat a dead horse (OK, that's exactly what I'm doing) but again: a big event with news media is a good way to ensure any legislative process will
fail. When governments do this kinds of thing we call it "blowback" and note how heavy-handed tactics fail to win hearts and minds.
So... humor me, do me a favor: have the biggest, most media-egaged smokeout ever --
after we do our best shot playing everything by the rules and above-board.
Paradoxially, doing a large CD after a bill fails is a good way to build momentum to try it again in 2 years' time. The people who would oppose us and be offended will have simmered down & forgotten by then; the people who would be energized by it will not.
And of course, we could
win the legislative battle, in which case this would be a lovely bit of video to distribute to peaceful potsmokers worldwide :D
Quote from: d_goddard on July 22, 2006, 01:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 12:34 PM NHFT
It would not take a huge number to make it a newsworthy event.
Not to beat a dead horse (OK, that's exactly what I'm doing) but again: a big event with news media is a good way to ensure any legislative process will fail. When governments do this kinds of thing we call it "blowback" and note how heavy-handed tactics fail to win hearts and minds.
So... humor me, do me a favor: have the biggest, most media-egaged smokeout ever -- after we do our best shot playing everything by the rules and above-board.
Paradoxially, doing a large CD after a bill fails is a good way to build momentum to try it again in 2 years' time. The people who would oppose us and be offended will have simmered down & forgotten by then; the people who would be energized by it will not.
And of course, we could win the legislative battle, in which case this would be a lovely bit of video to distribute to peaceful potsmokers worldwide :D
So.....who, exactly, makes these rules and decides what is above-board? And where is your proof that a previous act of CD will effect legislation, Seth?.........ops, I meant Dennis.
Quote from: slim on July 22, 2006, 11:20 AM NHFTA speaker there from Norml asked by a show of hands how many people smoked marijuana and I was shocked to see maybe 10 people raise their hands. I think it is sad that even porcupines won't even admit to smoking while in a group of Free Staters. :'(
I don't smoke marijuana. Most of my porcupine friends don't either. I was not surprised or disappointed. :)
I don't smoke it, and don't know anyone who does, but I have in the past (way back when).
Still, I believe marijuana should be completely legal, without restrictions or taxation or any other government control, and will actively support changes to the current draconian laws.
So, "how many here smoke marijuana?" may have been the wrong question to ask. There are lots of liberty-loving allies out there who don't smoke, but who support the freedom to do so.
Kevin
I'll never smoke weed with Willie again the party's all over before it began
You can poor me some old Wisky river my friend but I'll never smoke weed with Willie again....... every body sing. ;D
I've smoked a lot of weed. 8)
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I've smoked a lot of weed. 8)
How, exactly, do you manage to smoke "a lot of weed", yet still be 6'8" and weigh 82 pounds? Do they not have munchies in Floriduh?
Hell Elizabeth's smoking weed right now. ;D
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on July 23, 2006, 07:28 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on July 23, 2006, 07:14 AM NHFT
Hell Elizabeth's smoking weed right now. ;D
At 8:15 am?
She told me to tell you that you don't know her very well. ;D
Sunday's sacrament... turning up the good music and celebrating life.
I suspected Elizabeth of being a hippy chick ;D
Quote from: katdillon on July 23, 2006, 09:14 AM NHFT
I suspected Elizabeth of being a hippy chick ;D
We all were just jumping around to Deep Purple "Lazy" remix.
William is "singing" away, not sure what he is singing but he is giving it his all.
Jeff Beck just brought us back to a quieter place.
Quote from: Roger Grant on July 23, 2006, 07:57 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on July 23, 2006, 07:28 AM NHFT
Quote from: Roger Grant on July 23, 2006, 07:14 AM NHFT
Hell Elizabeth's smoking weed right now. ;D
At 8:15 am?
She told me to tell you that you don't know her very well. ;D
Sunday's sacrament... turning up the good music and celebrating life.
Well....it is Sunday
Quote from: Soundwave on July 23, 2006, 09:20 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on July 23, 2006, 02:07 AM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I've smoked a lot of weed. 8)
How, exactly, do you manage to smoke "a lot of weed", yet still be 6'8" and weigh 82 pounds? Do they not have munchies in Floriduh?
THC speeds up your metabolism.
Increases my trips to the refrigerator
Quote from: KBCraig on July 23, 2006, 02:07 AM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I've smoked a lot of weed. 8)
How, exactly, do you manage to smoke "a lot of weed", yet still be 6'8" and weigh 82 pounds? Do they not have munchies in Floriduh?
So cliche'! Do people really get that? I'm fairly convinced that "the munchies" are simply how one who is new to weed would describe the natural feeling of hunger occuring while high.
If I ate before smoking weed, would I get "the munchies"? Nope.
I think the last time I saw someone claim to have "the munchies", I was a teenager.
Hope that helps clarify.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I've smoked a lot of weed. 8)
Same here. every freind I have had since age 10 has smoked with me except one, not to metion the 100's of people I have smoked with just after meeting them.
Quote from: Soundwave on July 30, 2006, 09:23 AM NHFT
And you can still function!? :o
Yea it's amazing someone can smoke as much as I do and still get a degree and hold down a job in corporate America
Neither my wife or I have every smoked MJ. But we would work on any action, political, CD, or otherwise, just like we did on the tobacco smoking ban.
Quote from: toowm on July 30, 2006, 05:30 PM NHFT
Neither my wife or I have every smoked MJ. But we would work on any action, political, CD, or otherwise, just like we did on the tobacco smoking ban.
I'll be holding you to that this coming legilsative session....
and...
THANK YOU.
Quote from: slim on July 30, 2006, 04:48 PM NHFT
Yea it's amazing someone can smoke as much as I do and still get a degree and hold down a job in corporate America
Not really amazing, millions do it. :P
Quote from: slim on July 27, 2006, 06:21 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I've smoked a lot of weed. 8)
Same here. every freind I have had since age 10 has smoked with me except one, not to metion the 100's of people I have smoked with just after meeting them.
Holy cow. Have we met? :P
Quote from: FTL_Ian on July 22, 2006, 11:46 PM NHFT
I've smoked a lot of weed. 8)
I guess I'm a little late to this topic, but I and most of my friends smoke a lot of pot. I'd estimate Keene goes through about 20 pounds a day of the stuff, maybe 30 when school is in session. Well, I'm going to go smoke some pot :weed:
The trick will be motivating them to take action. Most college kids I've known can't be bothered to clean their rooms, let alone venture outside them. >:(
Quote from: FTL_Ian on August 18, 2006, 11:26 PM NHFT
The trick will be motivating them to take action. Most college kids I've known can't be bothered to clean their rooms, let alone venture outside them. >:(
Cleaning the room is a tough job. The mircowave dinners, wine bottles, beer bottles, pizza boxes, and piles of clean and dirty clothes never seem to end. Not to mention the work, school, parties, and other activities. I think the government should get involved. It might be able to fix this problem.
Quote from: Keith and Stuff on August 20, 2006, 11:02 AM NHFT
I think the government should get involved. It might be able to fix this problem.
First we need a govt funded commission to study the problem.
Quote from: Dreepa on August 20, 2006, 12:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: Keith and Stuff on August 20, 2006, 11:02 AM NHFT
I think the government should get involved. It might be able to fix this problem.
First we need a govt funded commission to study the problem.
This will be a large task and probably require millions of dollars for the commission alone, we'll probably need to raise taxes.
Some of these rooms will probably require Fema and the CDC better budget billions.
Oop's almost forgot gonna need heavy equipment to move mounds around, budget for the Army core of Engineers too.
The Toxic Brownfield clean up guys
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on August 20, 2006, 06:12 PM NHFT
The Toxic Brownfield clean up guys
Pfizer can do this! They did in New London.
Quote from: Pat McCotter on August 20, 2006, 07:47 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on August 20, 2006, 06:12 PM NHFT
The Toxic Brownfield clean up guys
Pfizer can do this! They did in New London.
Pffft. That's nothin'. Debbie did Dallas all by herself!