You know, I really hadn't given the free town project much though until today, when it hit me.
I live within a reasonable distance from 3 or 4 towns that have already done what is being proposed with the Free Town Project. They've declared independence from the State and Federal Governments. Now, I don't remember exactly which towns they are, so I'm going to have to look into this more, and find out whether these independence declarations are more than just words. If they truly have seperated themselves, then well, i figure why not ask those who've already done it what troubles they faced, and how they overcame them?
So over the next few days I'm going to try to figure out which towns these are again (I used to know, but forgot about them). Then, I'll visit them and hopefully gather up some useful information. I'll keep everyone posted in this thread.
I didnt know that towns did that outside of Vermont
Cool!
Quote from: aries on September 04, 2006, 05:52 AM NHFT
I didnt know that towns did that outside of Vermont
Cool!
What towns in Vermont have done this? IIRC, the towns out here that have done so did it in response to religous persecution (they are non-LDS mormons)
Our best bet is to bring in the VT freedom lovers to NH. It should be easy as they don't have to move very far. Make it happen.
Dude,
I'm going to go out on a limb here, but those declarations were probably just words paying lip service to their spiritual allegiance to Higher Authorities, while they continue to offer themselves up on the sacrificial state altar of taxation and licensing.
K... well, haven't found out much about those other towns... because I'm in shock from what I found out: I'm currently living in one of those towns! 5 years ago, the town seccedded from the UN. CATO's archives has information about that, see http://www.cato.org/dispatch/06-27-01d.html#3
Also check out some NYT coverage of it:
http://www.nytimes.com/2002/02/11/olympics/11TOWN.html?ex=1158292800&en=60eb1833bcc67fb8&ei=5070
(The town name is "La Verkin")
I originally didn't know about the part about the US... but... at a local auto repair shop there is a sign that says the following:
"La Verkin City
Voted out of the UN : 2001
Voted out of the US : 2006"
I don't know if this is anything more than words only. The cops from the adjoining town (Hurricane) frequently pull over people breaking the speed limit in town, and there is at least one federal building in town (the post office). I'll be looking into this more tommorrow, I have the day off. At the least, it seems the town still subjects itself to the state government, which in turn subjects itself to the Federal Government. But, I'm keeping my hopes up!
Quote from: Transition Force on September 04, 2006, 02:50 AM NHFT
I live within a reasonable distance from 3 or 4 towns that have already done what is being proposed with the Free Town Project. They've declared independence from the State and Federal Governments.
I did not know that is what was being proposed with the Free Town Project. I thought the idea was to have a majority voting block of "liberty lovers".
That was my thought, also. The whole point of concentrating lots of liberty activists in one small area is to create a big impact in that area. A few activists can convince a lot more people in one small area to make a change than they could trying to reach 300 million. We represent a small swing voting block, but we also represent a disproportionate number of ready activists in New Hampshire.
We are also having a good impact mobilizing liberty types in the state, promoting proliberty candidates, encouraging non-freestaters to move in, and lobbying our school boards, state legislature, and city governments. When bad elected officials see us again and again, attending these meetings, they get scared. They know that their reelection is at risk because some of our people are better known and trusted than the elected officials themselves.
How about joining us in Keene Max? We are revved up and are hitting them on multiple fronts. I think I know 3 guys running for mayor now. :)
I thought the FTP wanted to secede as well, but if not... that's cool - it makes it a little easier for me to want to get involved with it :)
You can create your own free town project and make it what you want.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on September 22, 2006, 10:34 AM NHFT
How about joining us in Keene Max? We are revved up and are hitting them on multiple fronts. I think I know 3 guys running for mayor now. :)
Will you vote for any of them? I'm involved in Manchester at the moment, because it has become a major hub of political activism. Keene is a hub of throwing water balloons at federal buildings. Holding a totem at the polls during an off year primary is not as exciting as burning the UN flag, but it makes a difference.
The establishment doesn't really care about what you think. They don't care if you believe in personal freedom, economic freedom, or both. They don't care about the truth, the Constitution, or how many peaceful people are serving time for things they didn't do, or for crimes that don't deserve imprisonment.
The only thing they care about is getting their own members reelected and reappointed.
They DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK.
Quote from: Rebel on September 07, 2006, 03:13 AM NHFT
Our best bet is to bring in the VT freedom lovers to NH. It should be easy as they don't have to move very far. Make it happen.
I don't think we want more
socialists! Tell them to stay in Vermont please, thank you very much! @#$!#!@#$
Quote from: maxxoccupancy on October 09, 2006, 02:18 PM NHFT
Keene is a hub of throwing water balloons at federal buildings.
They DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK.
Max is right. While Rome burns, Keene is fiddling.
Here is what is happening in NH as we are being onslaught from Vermont, Mass and Maine and New York. It's time to get real and starting doing things to HELP NH... period.
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Mike+Murray%3A+Will
+New+Hampshire+finally+become+just+like+its+neighbors%
3F&articleId=07ceeaa9-0882-4422-80ea-03ea377b1c73
Mike Murray: Will New Hampshire finally become just like its neighbors?
By MIKE MURRAY
A MOMENT of truth approaches New Hampshire. Already isolated by our
neighbors who have all gone the way of high taxes, decreasing freedom
and domination by the money-obsessed left, New Hampshire must decide
over the next months whether to remain free and independent or morph
happily into just another New England post-industrial relic.
The Legislature and executive branch, by ceding the intellectual
argument to the Supreme Court and accepting its premise that money is
the keystone to equality of opportunity in education, have put New
Hampshire in jeopardy of losing its economic and cultural
exceptionalism. For years the Legislature has played this word game
with the court, which is folly and very poor representation.
Our legislators are there to be our voice in Concord. Not for a
second do I think that citizens would accept the court threatening to
appoint its own "special master," yet the Legislature has accepted
this and waits for the court to fix a problem of its own making by
taking control of the largest state expenditure without any
constitutional basis or expertise for doing so. Who would play a
semantics game with the court and risk the economy of an entire state?
When examining the economics of education, not for a second do I
believe that citizens would think that throwing money at an already
well-financed educational system would fix the educational challenges
we face. I know zero parents who think money is the key to
curriculum, discipline, passionate teachers, accountability and
appropriate diligence on the part of parents. Yet the legislators
have accepted this rule.
The data are abundantly clear that spending does not relate to
outcomes in education, so why has the Legislature accepted this
notion so readily? Don't they know that higher spending does not, in
any example I can find anywhere, promote better education? Is this
such a foreign and hard-to-grasp concept? Why does the District of
Columbia, which spends more than $20,000 per student, have such
terrible schools? Does anyone think spending $40,000 is the answer?
Evidently the Legislature thinks the court knows something about
education that no one else does.
The court has clearly gone into the arena of policy-making when it
takes the following language and turns it into the present crisis:
"it shall be the duty of the legislators and magistrates, in all
future periods of this government, to cherish the interest of
literature and the sciences, and all seminaries and public schools. . ."
My question is will this Legislature and governor be responsible for
kowtowing to the court and be responsible, out of negligence to their
constituents and duty, for letting the court throw New Hampshire out
of its exceptional status into the morass and economic malaise of
other high-tax states?
Will this Legislature be responsible for losing all of the economic
advantages that come along with no income or sales tax? Will this
Legislature be responsible for causing the chaos and economic
hardship they consider now through their inaction and impotence, all
in the name of accepting the gamble that five judges are wise enough
to know the unknowable and that the relationship between spending
dollars and good education actually exists even though no evidence
can be found anywhere to support this radical theory?
###
What will YOU do to help? Max has already helped more than most, even though he is not around due to work from time to time.
Well ive been thinking about freeing Jaffrey, been spreading the word, but it seems like people do not care. All they care about is the 'now', going to work and such.
QuoteKeene is a hub of throwing water balloons at federal buildings.
LOL :D Nice wording on the post :)
I also agree...we need to be active politically all over the state in order to reach our long term goals of a free state--one without income taxes, eccessively funded public schools, and a small government.
A free town would basically short cut all that to getting freedom on a local level. It would be good for the 10 minutes it lasted until the state itself jacked up taxes, but in the long run the effect would be nothing.
We need to make the free state a success--politically, civil disobenienc--ey(?), however we can that way we can take it to the next level--which I personally think would be regionally, into other New England states.
We can then use the dissatisfied Vermonters to rally them into rolling back their government and making it smaller, using the New Hampshire success as an example.
But one step at a time...and New Hampshire as a whole comes first.
Quote from: maxxoccupancy on October 09, 2006, 02:18 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on September 22, 2006, 10:34 AM NHFT
How about joining us in Keene Max? We are revved up and are hitting them on multiple fronts. I think I know 3 guys running for mayor now. :)
Will you vote for any of them? I'm involved in Manchester at the moment, because it has become a major hub of political activism. Keene is a hub of throwing water balloons at federal buildings.
They DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK.
No
I thought you were bummed about where you were living. I thought you were looking at Belize or back in WA or another place.
Water balloons are fun.
I think you are right. Rotten government thugs do not care very much about what we think. But have you seen one shake? Have you seen them fumble for words and answer, "I am just doing my job."? Maybe someday you will see it happen. It is fun.
Quote from: CNHT on October 09, 2006, 06:45 PM NHFT
Quote from: maxxoccupancy on October 09, 2006, 02:18 PM NHFT
Keene is a hub of throwing water balloons at federal buildings.
They DO NOT CARE WHAT YOU THINK.
Max is right. While Rome burns, Keene is fiddling.
Instead of fiddling would you recommend running for the Senate while Rome burns?
If Washington was burning .... I would be learning the fiddle. :)
Quote from: Rochelle on October 09, 2006, 09:18 PM NHFT
I also agree...we need to be active politically all over the state in order to reach our long term goals of a free state...
A free town would basically short cut all that to getting freedom on a local level. It would be good for the 10 minutes it lasted until the state itself jacked up taxes, but in the long run the effect would be nothing.
But one step at a time...and New Hampshire as a whole comes first.
Why would a free town get crushed by a state, but a free state wouldn't be beaten by a Nation?
I don't see anything wrong with working towards a free town and then working way up to getting rid of the whole government.
I didn't think the water ballon thing was very productive, although I agree in principle that the barrier of 'awe' needs to be broken down.
I don't question your intentions, or your effort, but to the political types, what is the overall strategy to win politically?
If you say we will help elect freedom minded folks to office, then my concern is this: People don't like what we have to sell. Many are afraid it won't work, and are afraid of becoming a failed state with the resulting violence. Many don't trust us. Many think to legalize something is the same as state sponsered acceptance, think drugs. To a large number, particularly the active party political people, what we have to sell is in direct oposition to their desires, and agenda.
As important as reason and logic is, it will not sell liberty.
Only emotion will.
Those in power will not just give it up. There has never been a time when those in power just gave it up, never consistanly. We were close once, but that was after a bloody gurrilla war. And all we really achieved was to replace one gov't with a slightly weaker gov't. But guess what... Realitive liberty brings prosperity, and since this weak gov't had some taxing power, our prosperity equalled more taxes. High tax revenos, result in big, powerful gov'ts.
Unless we directly confront those in power, we will never win.
Quote from: fsp-ohio on October 12, 2006, 01:34 AM NHFT
I didn't think the water ballon thing was very productive, although I agree in principle that the barrier of 'awe' needs to be broken down.
Ask Caleb. He figures that he owns the fed building on Saturdays now. :)
Quote from: fsp-ohio on October 12, 2006, 01:34 AM NHFT
Those in power will not just give it up. There has never been a time when those in power just gave it up, never consistanly.
before we can make anyone give up power, we need a majority of support, there is probibly people all across New Hampshire with the same type of ideals as us, however, they are sort of disconnected from society. My mom delivers mail and she always tells me stories about how theres a guy people call the 'crazy preist' or something in keene, and when my mom acctually started talking to him he wasnt so crazy, just had differnt ideas of what was happening, but he knew something was happening.
QuoteWhy would a free town get crushed by a state, but a free state wouldn't be beaten by a Nation?
Because the Federal government has already crushed the state government, while the state government has yet to crush the town government. It's the whole "give a weed an inch and it will take a foot" rational: the federal government has already taken its foot, now the state government in New Hampshire is sizing up a few inches....
We, as free staters, need to stop that. If we all just concentrated in one city or town, we might be able to get the regulations there down to Ideal Libertarian Level, but the rest of the state would continue heading towards implementing broadbased tax systems. We're more effective when we can run for office in mutiple areas and spread our ideas instead of isolating ourselves among our own kind.
But some could say a free state project is isolated.
To me .... I want to strike the root .... and the biggest root.
But if others get excited about a town or state .... I don't want to get in their way. :)
QuoteBut some could say a free state project is isolated.
True, and there are a lot of people who haven't signed up for the Free State Project because of it. But the idea behind it is to hit a happy medium, not too big, not too small. Something that will be effective, get noticed and make a difference. It's more of a balancing act than anything else, I guess.
QuoteTo me .... I want to strike the root .... and the biggest root.
Then guess you'd better go after the Feds...they're the biggest root...and the hardest to chop...okay, I tried to find a smiley that would convey frustration. But since none of them seemed to match the exact facial expression I would associate with that, I'll just go *frustrated*.
QuoteBut if others get excited about a town or state .... I don't want to get in their way.
Agreed. No one should stop them, but there ain't nothin' wrong with advising against it.
Since the number of FSP members already in NH is relatively small (compared to the goal of 20K) then a town would probably be the ideal plan at this point. A couple hundred people concentrated in one town can do a lot (though if you try to do too much too fast you will upset the locals and have a negative effect) as opposed to a couple hundred spread throughout the state.
I must admit, I am very encouraged by what seems to be happening already. I do have a question - Has anyone had any negative encounters with people upset that the FSP is there? Maybe that question belongs in a thread of its own. Just curious...
Quote from: Quantrill on October 19, 2006, 09:33 PM NHFT
Since the number of FSP members already in NH is relatively small (compared to the goal of 20K) then a town would probably be the ideal plan at this point. A couple hundred people concentrated in one town can do a lot (though if you try to do too much too fast you will upset the locals and have a negative effect) as opposed to a couple hundred spread throughout the state.
I must admit, I am very encouraged by what seems to be happening already. I do have a question - Has anyone had any negative encounters with people upset that the FSP is there? Maybe that question belongs in a thread of its own. Just curious...
There are unofficial town projects in each region, right now. By defualt, a lot of freestaters are concentrating in Dover (Seacoast region), Manchester (Merrimack Valley), Keene (west), Grafton (northern). I think that this is a good thing, since a few activists can also change things on their school boards and boards of selectmen.
The free towns effort is nothing organized, but there are a lot of members migrating to these areas.
--Max
If your goal is freedom, I don't think you can do too much too fast.
Quote from: Quantrill on October 19, 2006, 09:33 PM NHFT
I do have a question - Has anyone had any negative encounters with people upset that the FSP is there? Maybe that question belongs in a thread of its own. Just curious...
I have had two people thank me.. and one is leery of me.
Quote from: Dreepa on October 25, 2006, 08:02 PM NHFT
Quote from: Quantrill on October 19, 2006, 09:33 PM NHFT
I do have a question - Has anyone had any negative encounters with people upset that the FSP is there? Maybe that question belongs in a thread of its own. Just curious...
I have had two people thank me.. and one is leery of me.
Some people in Winchester have made a huge stink over the FSP. Personally, I think it makes them very foolish and hysterical. What are they afraid of - more freedom? Nah, probably afraid of any disruption in the "way they've always done things" in the very active good old boy's club.
Are these normal citizens in Winchester or are you talking about politicians? Has anyone asked a politician if they would be opposed to more freedom for U.S. citizens? Wondering what the official stance is toward the FSP from city hall, police stations, capitol hill, etc...
If you move here, it should be for the long haul. You don't have to run for office, but it would be nice if all of our members helped out on campaigns.
I don't worry too much about which pols are in City Hall right now, because they are going to find it harder and harder to stay in if they are voting our rights away.
--Max
ROFLMAO - normal people or politicians??!! For the stereotypical evil, greedy, controlling politician, I guess "normal" might not be a good description, but politicians thankfully come in different varieties. We have some vocal liberals who want to spend, spend, spend; we have some greenies who want to put as much land into conservation as possible; and we even have a few conservatives.
The complaining and attacks came from groups one and two. But, hopefully even they are starting to understand that there will be issues of agreement and that's what should be focused on. I think negative attacks ALWAYS backfire and make the attacker look small and petty.