New Hampshire Underground

Regional Discussion => Monadnock => Keene => Topic started by: Kat Kanning on October 26, 2006, 05:12 PM NHFT

Title: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Kat Kanning on October 26, 2006, 05:12 PM NHFT
I wonder if we can come up with some non-governmental means to deal with this?



Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help

Business owners in the Commercial Street area of Keene are fed up with a group of teenagers they say is raising a ruckus outside their doors.

Now, the Keene City Council's municipal services, facilities and infrastructure committee and other city officials are eyeing ways to combat the problem.

Jeanna C. Hamblet told the committee Wednesday that she owns four buildings in the Commercial Street area, including those that house the Lady of America fitness center, Chesco Inc. and Masiello Employment.

Lately, she said, a pack of teens - some 30 to 40 - has taken to gathering in the Commercial Street parking lot, near the skate park.


      


They leave trash, hang on cars and intimidate tenants and others entering the buildings, Hamblet said.

Cherie Metivier, who's owned the fitness center for four years, said the problems outside her business have elevated since August.

Metivier said she's seen young girls urinate between cars. Others leave trash, smoke cigarettes, get in fights and deal drugs. Obscene sex toys have been left on windowsills.

She recalled a particular day, Oct. 9, when "the whole property looked like the dump."

The "no loitering signs" owners put up were defaced, Metivier said, so she's taken to calling the Keene Police Department almost every day to report problems. Officers have conducted stakeouts from the second-floor aerobics room, taking pictures and surveying the group, she said.

Recently, Police Chief Arthur Walker said, officers issued about 20 court summonses to teens whom police observed smoking and littering. The teens will be arraigned in Keene District Court in a few weeks, he said.

But the business owners say that hasn't stopped much of the group from coming back.

Brian A. Mattson, the city's director of parks, recreation and facilities, said most of the teens aren't the same kids who frequent the skate park.

Many are out-of-towners who come by car, he said.

"They're there because this is a place to meet," Mattson said, adding that because the problems aren't actually in the skate park, there's little he can do.

Some teens appear to be walking over from Keene Middle School, Metivier said, and they're there from after school until dark.

Walker said it seems some of the teens have migrated from their usual hangout at Railroad Square.

"At this point, it's a very real problem," he said.

Officials discussed several ways to address the problem, including installing cameras. The purpose would be to record activity and figure out who's doing what, Walker said. Police have to see illegal activity happening before taking action.

Councilor Frederick B. Parsells suggested having a greater police presence in the area. Walker said officers patrol downtown and that there are other trouble spots to be addressed, too.

Councilor Ruth R. Venezia suggested asking administrators at Keene Middle School to put on a program about appropriate behavior. Councilor Angelo D. DiBernardo Jr. said members of area civic groups could talk to the kids, which he said would be "better than dumping the problem on the police department."

Parsells then suggested that officials record activity there and show it on Cheshire TV to "let mom and dad see what they're doing." He said he wasn't sure if that was legal.

Committee Chairman Robert H. Farrar suggested members wait for the teenagers to deal with their court summonses before they take any action. The committee unanimously agreed.

City Manager John A. MacLean said in the meantime, city officials would continue to evaluate the situation, consider some ideas and report back to the committee in a few weeks.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: KBCraig on October 26, 2006, 06:05 PM NHFT
Maybe I just missed it, but who owns the parking lot?

Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: d_goddard on October 26, 2006, 06:47 PM NHFT
I wonder if we can come up with some non-governmental means to deal with this?

I suggest presenting this information to the business owner. It's very inexpensive to implement.

http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2005/08/low-tech_loiter.html
Quote
Amazingly, this works:

    To clear out undesirables, opera and classical music have been piped into Canadian parks, Australian railway stations, 7-Eleven parking lots and, most recently, London Underground stops.

    According to most reports, it works. Figures from the British capital released in January showed robberies in the subway down by 33 percent, assaults on staff by 25 percent and vandalism of trains and stations by 37 percent. Sources in other locales have reported fewer muggings and drug deals. London authorities now plan to expand the playing of Mozart, Vivaldi, Handel and opera (sung by Pavarotti) from three tube stations to an additional 35.

As a big Vivaldi fan, I'd be more than happy to donate one of my two copies of the "Vivaldi's Greatest Hits" CD.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: Kat Kanning on October 26, 2006, 08:05 PM NHFT
That's great!
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: error on October 27, 2006, 04:12 AM NHFT
Oh yeah, teenagers HATE classical music. It's like light to cockroaches. :)
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: KBCraig on October 27, 2006, 05:23 AM NHFT
Classical music has worked on sidewalks. But parking lots? The article says the problem teens are arriving in cars. I'll bet a goodly number of them are packing sound systems that would drown out the 1812 Overture, cannons included.

I don't think a "battle of the speakers" would make peace with the neighbors.

Kevin
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: Pat K on October 27, 2006, 05:47 AM NHFT
Perhaps they could try sustained morter fire.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: mr.apathy on October 27, 2006, 03:20 PM NHFT
How about proclaiming that were going to "turn over desks" there. Maybe homeland security will show up and ask them if they are handing out flyers?
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on October 27, 2006, 05:15 PM NHFT
 ;D
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Quantrill on October 27, 2006, 07:21 PM NHFT
How about proclaiming that were going to "turn over desks" there. Maybe homeland security will show up and ask them if they are handing out flyers?

Awesome!    :biglaugh:
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Michael Fisher on October 29, 2006, 11:21 AM NHFT
Get a few extremely openly well-armed people to ask them nicely to leave and never return.

Problem solved.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 29, 2006, 01:50 PM NHFT
That doesn't seem as friendly as chamber music.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Dave Ridley on October 30, 2006, 09:51 PM NHFT
Get a few extremely openly well-armed people to ask them nicely to leave and never return.

Problem solved.

the pacifist in mike still has not quite taken over heh heh
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: jgmaynard on October 31, 2006, 10:52 AM NHFT
Play classsical music and set up a Martini bar..... :D

JM
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: FTL_Ian on November 01, 2006, 01:57 AM NHFT
End government property.  Problem solved.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: Kat Kanning on November 01, 2006, 08:15 AM NHFT
End government property.  Problem solved.

Oh OK.  I'll call the business owners and have them get right on that.  That'll fix them right up.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: maineiac on November 01, 2006, 08:58 AM NHFT

Possible free market solution: install a couple of well placed Mosquitos, those sonic devices which emit an annoying sound frequency audible only to those under 22ish!

Seriously! (I can only open one page at a time, hence I have posted no link, but Google it up and see for yourself)
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: KBCraig on November 01, 2006, 11:58 AM NHFT

Possible free market solution: install a couple of well placed Mosquitos, those sonic devices which emit an annoying sound frequency audible only to those under 22ish!

Seriously! (I can only open one page at a time, hence I have posted no link, but Google it up and see for yourself)

Interesting.

http://www.compoundsecurity.co.uk/

Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: mvpel on November 01, 2006, 02:08 PM NHFT
This page: http://www.jetcityorange.com/MosquitoRingtone.html - has a free WAV file with the 17kHz tone on it.  At 36 as of yesterday, I can tell the computer's doing something the moment the playback starts with a very tiny, almost unnoticable change in what I'm hearing, but after that, zilch.  I would never notice it if it weren't for the progress bar on the Windows Media Player.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: FTL_Ian on November 01, 2006, 03:31 PM NHFT
End government property.  Problem solved.

Oh OK.  I'll call the business owners and have them get right on that.  That'll fix them right up.

Well, it would.   :P

Private property would be protected by private security whom you wouldn't have to *beg* to protect you and your stuff.  If they weren't doing an acceptable job, you could hire the competition.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: Michael Fisher on November 06, 2006, 09:39 PM NHFT
This page: http://www.jetcityorange.com/MosquitoRingtone.html - has a free WAV file with the 17kHz tone on it.  At 36 as of yesterday, I can tell the computer's doing something the moment the playback starts with a very tiny, almost unnoticable change in what I'm hearing, but after that, zilch.  I would never notice it if it weren't for the progress bar on the Windows Media Player.

OUCH!!! That REALLY hurts my ears!!! :o :o :o

I guess that's what I get for always trying to protect my hearing. Now I'm susceptible to the teen frequency.  :P
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: error on November 07, 2006, 11:07 AM NHFT
I can't hear anything but static. Shit!
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Pat McCotter on November 12, 2006, 06:02 AM NHFT
I can't hear a thing from it. 10 years in Navy enginerooms, 10 years at cogeneration plants, 2 years in a steam plant and now at hydro plants and having lost one inner ear - ya think that might do it?

BTW: You also might want to check out his barcode pages (http://www.jetcityorange.com/barcodes/).
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: Pat K on November 12, 2006, 05:23 PM NHFT
I can't hear a thing from it. 10 years in Navy enginerooms, 10 years at cogeneration plants, 2 years in a steam plant and now at hydro plants and having lost one inner ear - ya think that might do it?

BTW: You also might want to check out his barcode pages (http://www.jetcityorange.com/barcodes/).

I see I am not the only foolish boiler man not to wear enough hearing protection.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Dave Ridley on November 12, 2006, 10:41 PM NHFT
maybe a silent demonstration in front of the teens would have an effect, at some risk.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: Braddogg on November 12, 2006, 10:48 PM NHFT
maybe a silent demonstration in front of the teens would have an effect, at some risk.

Please bring some observers with you on this one . . . .
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: Ear on November 13, 2006, 12:52 AM NHFT
Throw the kids a party, bring in a band or two that they have some respect for, and have the people in the bands make some short speeches between songs asking the kids to pick up their litter and be sensitive to the rights of other people in the area.

A few friendly speeches from their hosts the local Libertarians wouldn't hurt either.
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: d_goddard on November 13, 2006, 08:26 AM NHFT
Throw the kids a party, bring in a band or two that they have some respect for, and have the people in the bands make some short speeches between songs asking the kids to pick up their litter and be sensitive to the rights of other people in the area.

A few friendly speeches from their hosts the local Libertarians wouldn't hurt either.
That's so crazy it just might work...
Get the shop owners to appreciate the Libertarians (by convincing the kids to quit loitering) AND get the kids, too.
As for local libertarians... maybe a short speech from a local talk radio host, one whose show is popular with the younger demographic...  8)
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's help
Post by: Lloyd Danforth on November 13, 2006, 08:53 AM NHFT
maybe a silent demonstration in front of the teens would have an effect, at some risk.

Not if the usual proportion of our members is go armed
Title: Re: Unruly teens provoke anger Commercial St. business owners ask for city's hel
Post by: eques on November 13, 2006, 11:24 AM NHFT
I'm 27, and I can just hear it.  Of course, now, my ears are ringing. :P  I had to turn it up all the way.

Of course, my cat had her ears back, looking in my direction.  ;)

[Edit] - Played it for my girlfriend--she heard it right away, and she's 25.  Go figure.  :)