New Hampshire Underground

New Hampshire Underground => Voluntaryism/Anarchism => Alternatives to Government => Topic started by: David on December 16, 2006, 12:18 AM NHFT

Title: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 16, 2006, 12:18 AM NHFT
This is not another free town project.  I don't care about 'taking over' any of the statists precious municiple gov'ts. 
There is no community in the whole of the US that is totally free of first strike force or fraud.  I'd like to start one.  Call it Natural Law or Anarchy if you want, but I think it can be done. 
A couple of important things to consider:
The gov't regulates everything, so much of what would go one in our agression free village would be 'illegal'. 
It would be a target for the police to shut down. 
It would also potentially strenghthen the liberty community by providing us with a base, a home.  More importantly, allies. 
It would give us something to point out to the fence sitters and say 'see it can work'. 
I am not at all interested in a violent confrontation ever, even with pushy or violent gov't persons.  I will undermine any potential violence. Violence against gov't only makes it grow. 
We must perfect peaceful resistance.  Possibly a peace brigade to block police if they try to arrest someone.  Simply a spontaneous mob with no weapons, only their bodies. 

My inspiration for this is the 'anarchy ghetto', the pockets of free trade that occurs all over, various cultures such as the jewish and gyspy culture that manages to survive amid persicution, and other 'accidental' resistance groups. 
My choices in NH are to be an activist and make myself a target in an attempt to make a better society, or, to create what I believe is close to the ideal and then repeal attempts to destroy it.
I think the latter would be easier and more effective. 

I think Natural Law, and real free trade are some of the most beutiful concepts in the world.  I would like to see them develope a base, somewhere in this world. 
The world is at a time in history where everyone believes they have a right to initiate first strike agression and fraud on others, yet at the same time has developed weapons of unimaginable destruction.  Richard Maybury called humans barbarians with lasers.  Unfortunately most people do not want what I have to sell, and thus will never change.  So, I propose we create it anyway. 
Don't like what I suggest, than cooperate on the things you agree with, and go your own way with everything else.   :)
We have a unique situation where we have a continual migration of people to NH, I think we should take advantage of it.  It doesn't matter at this point what happens with the fsp, or first 1000, because I believe the movement is self-sustaining. 
I welcome any debate, ect. 
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: error on December 16, 2006, 03:14 AM NHFT
It's a good idea in theory.

As a practical matter, there's very little unincorporated space in New Hampshire, and much of the space that is unincorporated is also uninhabitable. Or owned by the feds.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: Kat Kanning on December 16, 2006, 06:30 AM NHFT
Reverse eminent domain on fedlands.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 16, 2006, 02:28 PM NHFT
I would seek out unihabited land.  I don't see any fundamental difference between gov't control of the state or local.  There does appear to be quite a lot of land up north, outside of the fed parks.  To be honest I don't believe I will need too much land.  And any property is an easy target to asset forfiture for not paying bribe I mean taxes. 
I'll ignore fed land, they are armed, I won't be, they outnumber me, and their lawyers are better paid.   ;D

By doing this I will head off at the beginning most of the accusatory statements such as, 'since you benifit from the gov't roads, police protection, protection from frauds, ect, you have an obligation to pay for them'. 
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: Dave Ridley on December 16, 2006, 02:41 PM NHFT
the problem is going to be numbers.  followed by infrastructure creation problems.

however you can always just move to grafton and be halfway to what you want without having to build anything. 


Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 16, 2006, 02:58 PM NHFT
Grafton is probably too hostile to free staters.  Maybe time has soften it, but I doubt it. 
Infrastructure will be built by those who stand to benifit the most from them.  OR, cars with really big tires will become the norm.   :D
Numbers will be the biggest problem, outside of gov't meddeling.  Numbers help create demand, which will help the expensive things get built (roads, ect.).  If I can get a core of principled people involved, then invite activists of other stripes in, it might work.  The key is to get people who want to change things but have no faith in the gov't to create change.  This is particularly relevant of the 'other strips' crowd.  Example, homeschooling conservatives, and environmental liberals.  I would be in favor of encouraging working illegals to join as well.   ;D
An important factor is that if we start it, we will better be able to influence things from the beginning rather than in the middle of some statist power grab. 
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: SeanSchade on December 16, 2006, 06:40 PM NHFT
http://65.39.85.13/google/default.htm

Go there and zoom in on New Hampshire. This is the census data hooked up to the google maps api. For instance, just North of Squam Lake and East of 93 there is a spot with a population of 318 people in a 5 mile radius. Find a somewhat ghost town, and use that for your base of operations.  ;D

I wonder how many REALLY small towns in America operate with little intervention from the State and Federal governments? I bet there are more places than you think.  ;)
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 16, 2006, 10:50 PM NHFT
I tend to agree. 
If successful, this will give us undeniable proof that our theories could really work.  By successful, I mean the gov't actually leaves us alone.  I could only wish for such a utopian situation.   ::)
We know free trade and non agression work.  but we can't prove it.  I'd like to put myself in a situation that the pro gun supporters are in.  The only reason they have been able to hold off the gungrabbers, is we can prove violent crime goes down when the right to bear arms is protected.  I'd like to be able to prove it.  Argueing with people about why I have the right to my own property, or to protect myself, or to self medicate has gotten the liberty movement nowhere. 
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 27, 2006, 11:53 PM NHFT
Kind of a Hardyville type of place.  I'd like to introduce a private legal system, silver coinage, private need based infrustructure, ect. 
To be honest, I would love to do this outside of any existing gov't claimed territory, but since every square foot of land in the world is claimed by someone, I'm out of luck. 
Of course there is always Seastead.   ;)
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: PowerPenguin on December 31, 2006, 01:01 AM NHFT
If you do it in Portsmouth, I'll be there! If not, I don't know, as I want to move there in '08. This is tentative though, and I really have no idea. All I know is that I want ocean, some form of city infastructure, and a place that is NOT Kene for various logistics reasons.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 31, 2006, 01:26 AM NHFT
Keene probably isn't the best area, too many statists.  Unfortunately, that is where most of the civil disobeyers are, and those are the people we need most to make it work.   :-\
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 31, 2006, 02:15 AM NHFT
At one point I had thought it would be possible to try something like this in the middle of a large city.  I don't really think it would work, due to the fact that we will always be on 'their turf'. 
My original idea was to 'hide' out in plain sight, which can be done in large cities.  Due to the power of gov't in most cities, there would be a ready supply of gov't victims to cooperate and trade with.  In fact, in many areas, there already is a rebellious strain in existence. 
Unfortunately most would still be statist, angry only at their persecution caused by the 'other' group.  And the likelyhood of being arrested is increased.  That is possible no matter where or what I do, but in the city the risk seems to increase. 
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: error on December 31, 2006, 08:54 AM NHFT
There are "too many statists" everywhere. Don't let that stop you.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: TEBON on December 31, 2006, 09:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: fsp-ohio on December 16, 2006, 12:18 AM NHFT
This is not another free town project.  I don't care about 'taking over' any of the statists precious municiple gov'ts. 
There is no community in the whole of the US that is totally free of first strike force or fraud.  I'd like to start one.  Call it Natural Law or Anarchy if you want, but I think it can be done. 
A couple of important things to consider:
The gov't regulates everything, so much of what would go one in our agression free village would be 'illegal'. 
It would be a target for the police to shut down. 
It would also potentially strenghthen the liberty community by providing us with a base, a home.  More importantly, allies. 
It would give us something to point out to the fence sitters and say 'see it can work'. 
I am not at all interested in a violent confrontation ever, even with pushy or violent gov't persons.  I will undermine any potential violence. Violence against gov't only makes it grow. 
We must perfect peaceful resistance.  Possibly a peace brigade to block police if they try to arrest someone.  Simply a spontaneous mob with no weapons, only their bodies. 

My inspiration for this is the 'anarchy ghetto', the pockets of free trade that occurs all over, various cultures such as the jewish and gyspy culture that manages to survive amid persicution, and other 'accidental' resistance groups. 
My choices in NH are to be an activist and make myself a target in an attempt to make a better society, or, to create what I believe is close to the ideal and then repeal attempts to destroy it.
I think the latter would be easier and more effective. 

I think Natural Law, and real free trade are some of the most beutiful concepts in the world.  I would like to see them develope a base, somewhere in this world. 
The world is at a time in history where everyone believes they have a right to initiate first strike agression and fraud on others, yet at the same time has developed weapons of unimaginable destruction.  Richard Maybury called humans barbarians with lasers.  Unfortunately most people do not want what I have to sell, and thus will never change.  So, I propose we create it anyway. 
Don't like what I suggest, than cooperate on the things you agree with, and go your own way with everything else.   :)
We have a unique situation where we have a continual migration of people to NH, I think we should take advantage of it.  It doesn't matter at this point what happens with the fsp, or first 1000, because I believe the movement is self-sustaining. 
I welcome any debate, ect. 

I pretty much disagree. . . there will always be evil in society, there will always be people that rape and kill. . .if you don't -- hooray. .. it's awesome. . . neither do I. . . but I like the freedom of self defense. . .

I won't sit there while my wife is being raped, eating popcorn. 

I agree though, you should start such a community.  If not for yourself, the good of the world. Show us how it works.  Some of us need some proof. 

after the amish massacre, didn't it come out that the amish won't raise a hand not even in self defense?
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on December 31, 2006, 11:33 AM NHFT
I definately believe in the right of self defence. 
Nonviolence against gov't is a strategy, not a statement of principle.  I only believe it is wrong to Initiate violence or fraud, but every person has a right to defend him/herself from violent persons. 
Unfortunately the gov't,which is just as criminal as those in prison, is a very (relatively) organized gang.  It is downright dangerous to defend yourself against them. 
Again, I am suggesting a strategy, not a principle.   :)
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: Another Fate on January 12, 2007, 09:29 PM NHFT
I think you're looking "big" at the moment, but I think this can be done in a phased manner. I think the first goal is to get people that think alike into a small area, like your ghetto idea, but really it could be as simple as people moving into the same neighborhood or apartment complex. Once a critical mass is reached (and you'd have to figure out whatever that is), you could start to phase out "money" in the interactions between residents. Of course, you would need some sort of metal, like copper, silver, or gold to replace that money. So, the residents would operate on barter, rather than the U.S. dollar. I don't know what the legal and tax ramifications of that are, but it would be a nice start to your plan.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: FrankChodorov on January 13, 2007, 06:49 AM NHFT
Quote from: Another Fate on January 12, 2007, 09:29 PM NHFT
I think you're looking "big" at the moment, but I think this can be done in a phased manner. I think the first goal is to get people that think alike into a small area, like your ghetto idea, but really it could be as simple as people moving into the same neighborhood or apartment complex. Once a critical mass is reached (and you'd have to figure out whatever that is), you could start to phase out "money" in the interactions between residents. Of course, you would need some sort of metal, like copper, silver, or gold to replace that money. So, the residents would operate on barter, rather than the U.S. dollar. I don't know what the legal and tax ramifications of that are, but it would be a nice start to your plan.

it makes much more sense for the people that have already arrived in NH to start practicing agorism amongst themselves...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agorism)

then once a critical mass is reached you go about building alternative civic and cultural institutions that provide a good or service that fullfills a need that can not be duplicated in the same way by the dominant culture.

these alternative civic and cultural instituions then have to give people enough confidence that they can replace statist institutions.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on January 14, 2007, 02:22 AM NHFT
I agree Frank.  Although I have no idea what critical mass will be.  In my opinion, the more the better.  Since it will likely, and possibly always be a small group of resisters, the living 'it' idea is essentual. 
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on September 28, 2007, 01:30 PM NHFT
bump  ;D
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: Russell Kanning on October 13, 2007, 08:41 PM NHFT
Keane?
Hobbiton?
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: FTL_Ian on October 18, 2007, 11:22 PM NHFT
How about the Free Street Project?  It would be great if liberty activists purchased houses on the same street as they came up for sale...
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: J’raxis 270145 on October 19, 2007, 03:07 AM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on October 18, 2007, 11:22 PM NHFT
How about the Free Street Project?  It would be great if liberty activists purchased houses on the same street as they came up for sale...

The Free State projects?
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: error on October 19, 2007, 03:11 AM NHFT
There are lots of places in the immediate neighborhood for rent here. It's a crapshoot, however, as to whether the place is livable and the landlord has all his/her marbles.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: KBCraig on October 19, 2007, 12:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: J'raxis 270145 on October 19, 2007, 03:07 AM NHFT
The Free State projects?

;D

+1!
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: Dave Ridley on October 21, 2007, 09:58 AM NHFT
watching the idea with interest still!
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on January 03, 2008, 07:32 PM NHFT
I am now attempting to make a serious run out of this.  My website anarchyhouseproject1.org/home is my first attempt to organize this. 
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: yonder on January 04, 2008, 12:28 PM NHFT
You should be really inspired by this video, a shining example of non-violent mass resistance to police trying to usurp natural rights from human beings that aren't bothering anyone.

http://unixbeard.blogspot.com/2007/09/fight-power-and-win.html
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: sandm000 on January 04, 2008, 01:23 PM NHFT
You should check out J. Neil Schuman's alongside night.  In it he builds tenement buildings which house Agorae, with non-violent means to keep the police out (a la Huge metal doors and dead end concrete chutes, in case they break in)
I suppose you could run a Free House Project, or even a Free Hotel, as long as Moochers and Leeches didn't get the wrong idea about 'free'.
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: David on January 05, 2008, 09:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: yonder on January 04, 2008, 12:28 PM NHFT
You should be really inspired by this video, a shining example of non-violent mass resistance to police trying to usurp natural rights from human beings that aren't bothering anyone.

http://unixbeard.blogspot.com/2007/09/fight-power-and-win.html

I've seen that elsewhere.  When the police are challenged, they have one of two choices; give in, or fight back. 

Porc housing is high on my list of things I want to do.  Need money though.  I charge for housing that I would provide.   ;)
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: Nathan.Halcyon on May 23, 2008, 08:15 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on October 13, 2007, 08:41 PM NHFT
Hobbiton?
Actually, that's what I thought of when I first spotted this thread. It brought to mind earth sheltered housing, nearly full earth sheltering, mind. Something I'm planning for myself in the future. The economical nature of such housing makes solar power plausible even that far up north, (but may still not be worth the cost) with wind turbines for additional/backup generation and water pumping if the land obtained is in a good area for wind.

If not much land can be obtained, depending on how many folks get interested, and on how far you want to stray into the communal effort, you could go for an earth sheltered honeycomb, perhaps with a community bath, earth bed trays/hydroponics trays garden, and of course a brewery! Though, I'm unaware of how much strain such a thing would put on the water table, but it probably would be rather severe, depending on location and precipitation. You'd have to reclaim a lot to use as flushing water, I reckon, but that's doable. Collection and purification of rain, sleet, snow, etc is also possible. A combination using rain water filtered for bacterial contamination for flushing, and using well water for drinking and cooking could work, I suppose.

What you need to look for in this case is a wide, southern facing hill, in an area with a good deal of precipitation and reliable wind. That's not too much to ask, is it?

I know I'd be down for it once I get up there, whatever the idea is that you go with. This is the kind of practical "activism" I can really dig on. Living it. :icon_pirat:
Title: Re: Creating a city of non agression
Post by: mackler on July 07, 2008, 02:01 PM NHFT
Municipalities are corporations.  Corporations can be created (incorporated) and they can be dissolved.  Pick a town with a small enough population and move in enough voluntarists to deincorporte it.

Judging by the amount of resistance encountered by efforts to incorporate previously unincorporated communities, you'll probably have half the locals on your side from the get-go.