I believe Mark and Ian did a good job addressing a difficult subject. Kudos for the honesty.
While surprising, it doesn't change my opinion of the show or its co-host.
Kevin
What are you talking about?
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 30, 2007, 02:32 PM NHFT
What are you talking about?
Last night's show. You can listen to it. http://media.libsyn.com/media/ftl/FTL2007-01-29.mp3
Well, the cat is out of the bag. Mark spent nine years in prison. / Blacks and Spanking / Crazy Laws / Militarization of the Police / Law Enforcement Against Prohibition / Salvia / More Bad Gun Laws
Or, read a 600-post thread mostly full of crap over on the FTL BBS... http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=11386.0
What was he in prison for?
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 30, 2007, 02:37 PM NHFT
What was he in prison for?
He plead no contest to second-degree murder in 1989. There is, of course, much more to the story, and Ian and Mark tell it much better than I could.
What happened? Why did he kill someone?
http://bbs.freetalklive.com/index.php?topic=11386.0
Yeah, it'll take hours to read that.
Bradenton Herald, The (FL)
September 1, 1989
Section: Local
Edition: Final
Page: B1
MANAGER'S KILLERS PLEAD NO CONTEST
Kate Murphy Herald Staff Writer
Two men charged in the death of a motel manager last year pleaded no contest Thursday to second-degree murder charges.
Assistant State Attorney Peter Dubensky said the plea agreements were not ``something we were happy about.''
He said conflicting stories told by the two defendants made it a question ``of who do you believe.''
Circuit Judge Thomas Gallen sentenced Carmen Tungate to 30 years in state prison in the death of Econo Lodge Mo tel manager Ballapuran Umakanthan in June 1988. Tungate, 20, who has no known address, had been indicted on a first-degree murder.
Charges of grand theft, uttering a forged document and lewd and lascivious behavior were dropped against Tungate as part of the deal, said Steve Lewis, Tungate's attorney.
Mark A. Edgington, 18, of 5528 20th St. W., was sentenced to 25 years in state prison. He previously was charged with accessory to murder after the fact, but that charge was upgraded earlier this month.
Tungate entered the court room hesitantly. His hands were clasped behind his back as he stood before the judge.
He answered questions from the judge in a barely audible voice.
Ellis was pleased with the deal his client received.
``There are always risks going to trial,'' Ellis said. ``They made him a very reasonable deal.''
After Umakanthan, 37, was strangled early in the morning of June 29 in a room at the motel at 6727 14th St. W., Edgington was arrested on the accessory charge.
Authorities issued a warrant for Tungate.
Luck ran out for Tungate in February when he was arrested in Virginia. He reportedly was trying to obtain a fraudulent birth certificate.
Tungate was fired or quit work as a day clerk at the motel after stealing money from the job, authorities. The grand theft charges stem from that, officials said.
Tungate planned the murder of Umakanthan, renting a room at the Econo Lodge and concocting a scheme to lure the motel manager to the room, authorities said.
Umakanthan came to the room because of a complaint about a faulty air conditioner, authorities said.
Edgington told detectives he and Tungate wrapped Umakanthan's body in a bedspread and moved it to another part of the room. They planned to get rid of the body, but decided to leave when they spotted a sheriff's patrol car near the motel.
The two men hopped into a car and drove to Tampa International Airport, where Tungate caught a flight out of Florida, authorities said.
Edgington was arrested the next day at Southeast High School, where he was attending summer school classes.
He remained free until private investigators for Tungate's attor ney uncovered information that Edgington's role in the slaying was different than what authorities had first believed, authorities said.
Edgington made statements to two people that he had strangled Umakanthan with his hands, Ellis said.
``Few people knew (Umakanthan) had been manually strangled,'' Ellis said.
Prosecutors filed the second-degree murder charge against Edgington on Aug. 14.
Dubensky said that if the plea agreement had not worked out he was prepared to take Edgington's case to a grand jury.
Ellis said his client ``regrets the pain he has caused Uma's family.''
Umakanthan's brother walked from the court room moments after Gallen passed the sentences on the two men.
``I'm glad it is all behind us now,'' he said.
Quote from: KBCraig on January 30, 2007, 02:29 PM NHFT
I believe Mark and Ian did a good job addressing a difficult subject.
I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.
Thanks money dollars.
Just finished listening .... very interesting.
I don't even want to think how my life might had been different living at 5528 20th St. W Anywhere!
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 30, 2007, 04:14 PM NHFT
I don't even want to think how my life might had been different living at 5528 20th St. W Anywhere!
They number houses differently in other parts of the country (each 100 covers roughly a city block, rather than a mile or a half mile; yes it's odd).
Quote from: error on January 30, 2007, 04:37 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 30, 2007, 04:14 PM NHFT
I don't even want to think how my life might had been different living at 5528 20th St. W Anywhere!
They number houses differently in other parts of the country (each 100 covers roughly a city block, rather than a mile or a half mile; yes it's odd).
?? This is how it's done here. With many streets so close together if you say 1100 E. Walnut, then I automatically know it's 11 blocks east of Main st. Very simple actually. How exactly is it done in NH?
Quote from: Quantrill on January 30, 2007, 05:46 PM NHFT
How exactly is it done in NH?
Depends on the town.
In fact check this out :
http://www.cvvillager.com/main.asp?SectionID=1&SubSectionID=10&ArticleID=1841&TM=67997.89
This is a BIG deal in this town.
Quote from: alaska on January 30, 2007, 06:00 PM NHFT
Read up on Utah's street numbering/naming system. ;D
They did it right.
They claim that it came to Joseph Smith in a vision. Of course DC was also laid out in a grid pattern.
I love how this has turned into a discussion about street numbering ;D
The French Quarter in New Orleans is numbered similarly--each block begins a new multiple of 100, with the 100 block on the southwest-northeast streets starting off of Canal Street... but I don't remember where the 100 block on the northwest-southeast streets is exactly.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 30, 2007, 06:47 PM NHFT
I love how this has turned into a discussion about street numbering ;D
Gotta love the underground -- we should have a slogan --
No topic is off topic on nhfree.com ;)
Should we go back to talking about killing someone?
Quote from: Dreepa on January 30, 2007, 09:36 PM NHFT
Should we go back to talking about killing someone?
no really that's OK -- let's stick to the discussion about numbers and off-topic topics. Mark's past is so passe.
I went to college in Russellville, AR, which has an interesting grid system, with the city divided into quadrants.
http://maps.google.com/maps?q=russellville,+ar&ie=UTF8&z=15&ll=35.278698,-93.131876&spn=0.016746,0.045791&om=1
The main north-south street is Arkansas, and east-west is Main. They intersect in the middle of town and form the quadrants.
All the north-south streets are named after cities, and are alphabetical. Starting from Arkansas going east, you cross Boston, Cleveland, Detroit, Erie, Frankfort, Greenwich, etc. Going west, you cross Boulder, Commerce, Denver, El Paso, Fargo, Glenwood, etc.
All the east-west streets north of Main are "letter" streets: B, C, D, E, F, G, etc. South of Main, they're "number" streets: 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th, etc.
Quote from: money dollars on January 30, 2007, 03:04 PM NHFT
I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.
Mark said more than you claim. He said he didn't kill anyone and that he had nothing to gain by killing the man.
Excluding the hearsay from Tungate's attorney (Steve Lewis? Ellis?), the article seems to confirm what Mark said on the air.
"I like to think you killed a man. It's the romantic in me.?
Quote from: Bill Grennon on January 30, 2007, 10:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on January 30, 2007, 03:04 PM NHFT
I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.
Mark said more than you claim.
Okay, I'm officially confused. For a long time, I've thought the "poster known as Bill Grennon (who isn't really Bill Grennon)", was MD in disguise.
Or are you just arguing with yourself?
Kevin
No, Bill Grennon is not MD. But I do think Bill probably has multiple personality disorder.
Quote from: Quantrill on January 30, 2007, 05:46 PM NHFT
Quote from: error on January 30, 2007, 04:37 PM NHFT
They number houses differently in other parts of the country (each 100 covers roughly a city block, rather than a mile or a half mile; yes it's odd).
?? This is how it's done here. With many streets so close together if you say 1100 E. Walnut, then I automatically know it's 11 blocks east of Main st. Very simple actually. How exactly is it done in NH?
Before the FCC-mandated 911 address renumbering insanity hit the country, most of New England, the Mid-Atlantic, and I've seen it even as far south as North Carolina, numbered 100 to a mile or to a half-mile. I think in Manhattan it's 100 to a quarter mile, though I could be off. I'll check it next time I'm there. In the days when travel was on foot and horseback, if you were on a road, this made it fairly easy to judge how far you were from the center of town.
In rural areas of the Midwest, many county roads are laid out in grid pattern, about one mile apart, with everyone's farmland in between them, and are numbered according to distance from the county line, or some other fixed point, usually 10 per mile, e.g. 220th Road, 230th Road would be one mile apart, 22 and 23 miles from the county line. These are sometimes gravel or even dirt roads.
I think people just did whatever seemed to make sense at the time.
Quote from: error on January 30, 2007, 04:37 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 30, 2007, 04:14 PM NHFT
I don't even want to think how my life might had been different living at 5528 20th St. W Anywhere!
They number houses differently in other parts of the country (each 100 covers roughly a city block, rather than a mile or a half mile; yes it's odd).
I lived in multiple places in SoCal where I had addresses like 25736 Rio Burrito Con Carne.
In tiny towns in Utah, the have addresses based on the temple in SLC and when the numbers get really big they lop off digits in the front.
I wish NEngland had a numbering system that meant something .... or even street signs on all corners.
Rio Burrito Con Carne? You made that one up. ;D
I do not believe there is a single entity residing in the "Bill Grennon" body. This is not from personal experience, however.
Actually it was 12345 via esplanada santa rio ranchero burrito in Rancho Santa Margarita KaleefOrnia.
I could never get that town name to fit into "city" fields.
Quote from: KBCraig on January 30, 2007, 02:29 PM NHFT
I believe Mark and Ian did a good job addressing a difficult subject. Kudos for the honesty.
While surprising, it doesn't change my opinion of the show or its co-host.
Kevin
"Honesty" isn't quite the right way to put it, it makes it seem like they brought this up on their own. Going through the FTL BBS, it looks like there's no way Ian and Mark couldn't have addressed it honestly. They did (passively) avoid the 2nd-degree murder charge for several years.
What happened 19 years ago, happened. From what I hear on the radio, he didn't do the killing. And even if he did, from what I gather on the radio he's a fine guy now.
Quote from: Bill Grennon on January 30, 2007, 10:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on January 30, 2007, 03:04 PM NHFT
I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.
Mark said more than you claim.
What part of "I feel" don't you understand?
Quote from: KBCraig on January 31, 2007, 02:02 AM NHFT
Quote from: Bill Grennon on January 30, 2007, 10:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on January 30, 2007, 03:04 PM NHFT
I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.
Mark said more than you claim.
Okay, I'm officially confused. For a long time, I've thought the "poster known as Bill Grennon (who isn't really Bill Grennon)", was MD in disguise.
Or are you just arguing with yourself?
Kevin
It's always funny to see what you guys think about me.
I think it is the guy goes by ghandi2 on the FTL forum.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 31, 2007, 06:53 AM NHFT
I do not believe there is a single entity residing in the "Bill Grennon" body. This is not from personal experience, however.
So, is there a little door somewhere which you enter, view the world through Bill Grennon's eyes, and ultimately ends up with you getting spit out on the side of a highway in New Jersey?
Being Frank Chodorov has a nice ring to it, actually. ;D
money dollars wrote:
<<I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.>>
i pulled it up and listened to it yesterday...actually he went into more detail than that and i would think a sufficient amount of detail.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 31, 2007, 09:56 AM NHFT
money dollars wrote:
<<I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.>>
i pulled it up and listened to it yesterday...actually he went into more detail than that and i would think a sufficient amount of detail.
I think Money Dollars just holds us all up to high standards. :P
Quote from: money dollars on January 31, 2007, 08:57 AM NHFT
Quote from: Bill Grennon on January 30, 2007, 10:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on January 30, 2007, 03:04 PM NHFT
I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.
Mark said more than you claim.
What part of "I feel" don't you understand?
He said he is unable to address it due to the Son of Sam law. Mark was being paid for being on the air, thus talking about details of the case would be profiting from the crime.
KBCraig hit it on the nose. I've met Mark in person, I've listened to him blather for many hours on FTL, and I like the the guy I know as Mark Edge. I am pretty sure I would NOT have liked the punk-ass kid Mark Edgington was 20 years ago. I do believe he told the truth that he didn't actually kill the guy.
Anyway, this was a shocking revelation for about 10 minues when I heard the podcast, and was old & boring before Ian & Mark were done talking about it. what-the-fuck-ever, man.
After 1 day ... it still is not old and boring to me.
You have a truly phenomenal attention span, my dear.
Quote from: d_goddard on January 31, 2007, 12:30 PM NHFT
I do believe he told the truth that he didn't actually kill the guy.
Maybe mark just held the guy down while carmen did the killing.....
I can only speculate since mark won't talk about it....
QuoteAnyway, this was a shocking revelation for about 10 minues when I heard the podcast, and was old & boring before Ian & Mark were done talking about it. what-the-fuck-ever, man.
I thought the same thing, minus the 10 mins of shock, because no new info came out......
The way I see it, the Mark that did whatever he did 20 years ago is not the Mark that exists now. It feels like they're two different people, and thus, it feels silly to be mad at todays Mark for it. To me it feels like being mad at one person for what a completely different person did. I did my share of stupid crap when I was in my teens. Nothing as serious as murder, more along the lines of stealing candy from stores, but that little brat is not who I am anymore. I don't have to be mad at the current version of myself for it, because the current version of myself would never do it. I believe the current version of Mark would never commit murder, so I'm not mad at the current version of Mark.
Pretty much everyone has a skeleton in our closet. Most people would love to go back and change one thing in their past. Mark is no different then me. If I could go back there are many things I would change. Most lessons are learned by mistakes and I have made many mistakes and learned many lessons. I made a choice a few years ago that I would try and learn from others mistakes rather then making the mistake and then learning the lesson. Personally I think Mark is a brave man to admit to his past on nationwide radio, I would not have the balls to do that even tho my mistakes are less severe then Marks.
A man that lives in a glass house should not throw stones.
Quote from: earthhaven on January 31, 2007, 11:35 AM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on January 31, 2007, 08:57 AM NHFT
Quote from: Bill Grennon on January 30, 2007, 10:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on January 30, 2007, 03:04 PM NHFT
I feel like mark didn't really address it, besides saying he did jail time, and doesn't want to/can't talk about it.
Mark said more than you claim.
What part of "I feel" don't you understand?
He said he is unable to address it due to the Son of Sam law. Mark was being paid for being on the air, thus talking about details of the case would be profiting from the crime.
And that is a FL law...
Strange how Manwich says he has to follow the FL "Son of Sam" law.
He said nothing is worth going to jail for...
but had no problem breaking the law that said he couldn't vote in FL. So mark confessed to voter fraud....
He has also said in this show that felon are not allowed to own firearms because of a federal law. On other shows he has said that he has mossberg shotguns.
When he moved to Keene, people saw them:
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=5185.msg91125#msg91125
Quote
And Mark's Mossberg arsenal, suitable for museum display.
Well... Feds read this board and they can do what they do.
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
Quote from: Dreepa on February 04, 2007, 10:46 PM NHFT
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
I'm not, really.
All of us have learned about close skeletons involving people we know and like. This is just another one, and Mark was matter of fact about it. MD is the only one who wanted to make a big deal out of it, and even he gave up when he couldn't stir any outrage.
Kevin
Quote from: KBCraig on February 05, 2007, 12:35 AM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on February 04, 2007, 10:46 PM NHFT
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
I'm not, really.
All of us have learned about close skeletons involving people we know and like. This is just another one, and Mark was matter of fact about it. MD is the only one who wanted to make a big deal out of it, and even he gave up when he couldn't stir any outrage.
Kevin
agreed
i feel bad for him, going threw something myself, that i am not proud of, (mine didnt involve jail time, but there were 2 deaths) its hard enough not to think about it every day, but to know that your peers know parts of your life that you wish to forget. Its hard, the mess i was involved in, i cant stop thinking about it, and its hard to comprehend what people think of you, after said cat is out of the bad. There are very few who know my story, very few who will ever know my story, and i cant think of what its like, if everyone knew my story. Mark, you show us that we are all humans, we make mistakes, we learn from them, and thats all we can hope for. I hope you find some serenity in the fact that people know, and we are okay with it.
Quote from: KBCraig on February 05, 2007, 12:35 AM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on February 04, 2007, 10:46 PM NHFT
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
I'm not, really.
All of us have learned about close skeletons involving people we know and like.
Gee, KB, would you have a different opinion of the situation if you *didn't* like Mark?
Quote
This is just another one, and Mark was matter of fact about it.
Yep, gotta give him that! He was quite matter of fact on his syndicated radio program, of which the Free State Project is the primary financial sponsor, about not only being involved in a premeditated murder, but also committing perjury, multiple acts of theft, breaking and entering, and voter fraud.
Quote
MD is the only one who wanted to make a big deal out of it, and even he gave up when he couldn't stir any outrage.
I suspect that MD has only just begun...
I don't understand two things.
1. Why has the secret been kept so long. I spent a week on the FTL forum. If the people on the forum represents their average listener most of them would not have cared about this.
2. The stupid law that is cited that suposedly stops Mark from telling what happened. Why is this law so important to obey? Why can't Mark take a day off without pay and come in as a guest and tell his story?
Quote from: Dreepa on February 04, 2007, 10:46 PM NHFT
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
I am not. I don't know much about the situation .... and neither does anyone else posting on this thread.
I will ask Mark sometime the same kinds of questions that Lloyd posted. Talking in person seems like the right thing to do. We talked a bit yesterday during the Superbowl, but we were mostly watching.
There is not much to joke about or debate .... so the tread is not that long.
I take it from your last line you guys did not Dub Mark with the, obvious, nickname
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
Yep, gotta give him that! He was quite matter of fact on his syndicated radio program, of which the Free State Project is the primary financial sponsor, about not only being involved in a premeditated murder, but also committing perjury, multiple acts of theft, breaking and entering, and voter fraud.
Mark mentioned that his relationship with the FSP has changed, but can you tell me what you think personally .... and what the FSP leaders are thinking about this news?
I don't really know what happened yet to lead to his jail time, so I don't really have any comment.
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on February 05, 2007, 12:35 AM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on February 04, 2007, 10:46 PM NHFT
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
I'm not, really.
All of us have learned about close skeletons involving people we know and like.
Gee, KB, would you have a different opinion of the situation if you *didn't* like Mark?
Quote
This is just another one, and Mark was matter of fact about it.
Yep, gotta give him that! He was quite matter of fact on his syndicated radio program, of which the Free State Project is the primary financial sponsor, about not only being involved in a premeditated murder, but also committing perjury, multiple acts of theft, breaking and entering, and voter fraud.
Quote
MD is the only one who wanted to make a big deal out of it, and even he gave up when he couldn't stir any outrage.
I suspect that MD has only just begun...
Sandy, I don't understand why you don't believe that actually knowing someone effects how you think about the likelyhood that they actually committed a crime, or, if they did it, how likely they are to do it again. I haven't spent a lot of time with mark, but, I have been a 3 or 4 functions where he also attended. He's just a regular guy. Imagine hearing that Cris (Take your pick ) or, Denis was involved in something like this in their teens, and you will know what some people are dealing with here.
Also, one doesn't have to listen to the show for long to believe that Mark, today is in the 5% of the population that are libertarian.
Who gives a Shit what MD does?
Lloyd
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
I suspect that MD has only just begun...
Always so wrong....FSP board members, that is.
I was waiting for the FSP leadership to freak...did they?
Shows what you know MD. Of course, I could update the org chart too . . .
I don't pay that much attention any more....and I can't find anything on the FSP site since it changed :'(
Quote from: money dollars on February 05, 2007, 07:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
I suspect that MD has only just begun...
Always so wrong....FSP board members, that is.
I was waiting for the FSP leadership to freak...did they?
Depends on who you ask. I have it on reliable authority that they acted in the vital national security interests by protecting the viable Presidential candidacy of Dr. Ron Paul (R) Texas. ::)
Maybe sometimes we take ourselves too seriously. Look at G Gordon Liddy. Or Oliver North, for chrissakes. People look past the past. Or at least, most of us do.
Quote from: Caleb on February 05, 2007, 10:04 PM NHFT
Look at G Gordon Liddy. Or Oliver North, for chrissakes.
Or Hillary "Travelgate and Cattlegate" Clinton. Or Bill "Filegate" Clinton.
Quote from: Dreepa on February 04, 2007, 10:46 PM NHFT
Well... Feds read this board and they can do what they do.
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
Maybe someone is strangling it.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 05, 2007, 08:31 AM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
Yep, gotta give him that! He was quite matter of fact on his syndicated radio program, of which the Free State Project is the primary financial sponsor, about not only being involved in a premeditated murder, but also committing perjury, multiple acts of theft, breaking and entering, and voter fraud.
Mark mentioned that his relationship with the FSP has changed, but can you tell me what you think personally .... and what the FSP leaders are thinking about this news?
I don't really know what happened yet to lead to his jail time, so I don't really have any comment.
Sure, Russell. What I, personally, think, is that it doesn't make sense for the FSP to financially sponsor FTL at this point in time. Any one of a number of things that Mark said on the air a week ago directly conflict with the stated methods and goals of the FSP i.e. to work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government. Those who are running for political office, helping others run for political office, serving in political office, working to affect legislation, or planning on moving to New Hampshire to do any of these things in the future, can all be hurt by publicly being associated with an organization that *knowingly* sponsors a radio program that encourages people to move to New Hampshire for the FSP and appears to advocate certain types of illegal activity and makes light of others (I'm speaking here about theft and fraud). I listened to the FTL podcast discussing Mark's past and this was my personal interpretation of it. I have heard from another person who listens more regularly that Ian and Mark also dispense advice on how to register to vote in NH without actually living here, which is yet another form of fraud and directly in conflict with the FSP's longtime mission.
As for what FSP leaders think of this, most of the Board disagrees with me on this issue and does not have a problem with continuing to sponsor FTL. Several previous and future Boardmembers do agree with me.
Quote from: money dollars on February 05, 2007, 07:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
I suspect that MD has only just begun...
Always so wrong....FSP board members, that is.
I'm not an FSP Board member.
Gee, I liked you better when you were the trolling fisher. Now that you've gone all gangsta bling bling, it's all about the Bentleys and ho's, isn't it? :'(
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 05, 2007, 06:03 PM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
Quote from: KBCraig on February 05, 2007, 12:35 AM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on February 04, 2007, 10:46 PM NHFT
I am surpised this thread died so fast.
I'm not, really.
All of us have learned about close skeletons involving people we know and like.
Gee, KB, would you have a different opinion of the situation if you *didn't* like Mark?
Quote
This is just another one, and Mark was matter of fact about it.
Yep, gotta give him that! He was quite matter of fact on his syndicated radio program, of which the Free State Project is the primary financial sponsor, about not only being involved in a premeditated murder, but also committing perjury, multiple acts of theft, breaking and entering, and voter fraud.
Quote
MD is the only one who wanted to make a big deal out of it, and even he gave up when he couldn't stir any outrage.
I suspect that MD has only just begun...
Sandy, I don't understand why you don't believe that actually knowing someone effects how you think about the likelyhood that they actually committed a crime, or, if they did it, how likely they are to do it again.
Lloyd, you clearly haven't been listening to what I've been saying. (You've also apparently been sharing garbled versions of private discussions with other parties, which isn't very cool.) I never said I think Mark killed someone, or that I think he's going to run out and do it again. I said that Mark admitted to several different forms of theft and fraud on the air, then downplayed its significance by describing it as, quote, "silly kid stuff". It conflicts with the oft-stated goals and methods of the FSP. It's potentially damaging to FSP participants.
Quit trying to make this personal. Y'all clearly know and like Mark, and that's none of my business (just like it's none of your business that the man I married has done everything Mark has/did/was alleged to do, and then some. And yes, I knew all of that when I married him.) I've never met Mark, and have no reason to like or dislike him on a personal level. This isn't about Mark. It's about Free Talk Live and its audience of thousands, and about donors' money, and about public perception, current and future, and about the reputations of FSP'ers who are/want to be involved in politics. And let's not forget about journalists' dependable tendency to get the facts all wrong and make us look as bad as possible. :P
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:00 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 05, 2007, 08:31 AM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 05, 2007, 06:55 AM NHFT
Yep, gotta give him that! He was quite matter of fact on his syndicated radio program, of which the Free State Project is the primary financial sponsor, about not only being involved in a premeditated murder, but also committing perjury, multiple acts of theft, breaking and entering, and voter fraud.
Mark mentioned that his relationship with the FSP has changed, but can you tell me what you think personally .... and what the FSP leaders are thinking about this news?
I don't really know what happened yet to lead to his jail time, so I don't really have any comment.
Sure, Russell. What I, personally, think, is that it doesn't make sense for the FSP to financially sponsor FTL at this point in time. Any one of a number of things that Mark said on the air a week ago directly conflict with the stated methods and goals of the FSP i.e. to work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government. Those who are running for political office, helping others run for political office, serving in political office, working to affect legislation, or planning on moving to New Hampshire to do any of these things in the future, can all be hurt by publicly being associated with an organization that *knowingly* sponsors a radio program that encourages people to move to New Hampshire for the FSP and appears to advocate certain types of illegal activity and makes light of others (I'm speaking here about theft and fraud). I listened to the FTL podcast discussing Mark's past and this was my personal interpretation of it. I have heard from another person who listens more regularly that Ian and Mark also dispense advice on how to register to vote in NH without actually living here, which is yet another form of fraud and directly in conflict with the FSP's longtime mission.
As for what FSP leaders think of this, most of the Board disagrees with me on this issue and does not have a problem with continuing to sponsor FTL. Several previous and future Boardmembers do agree with me.
Sandy. Who the HELL are you to accuse me of sharing private conversations about anything? The only thing I have ever said about anything going on at the O list is that when any controversy about anything going on in Keene comes up You, Jean, Lynn and Amanda, and sometimes Steve go absolutely beserk and Jon, Dreep, (maybe some male I'm forgetting) and Jason, to a lesser extent, try to bring some rational thought to the situation.
How is it
you Know who the future members of the board are going to be?
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:00 AM NHFT
Any one of a number of things that Mark said on the air a week ago directly conflict with the stated methods and goals of the FSP i.e. to work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government.
Any number of things Ian and Mark say all the time -- not to mention quite a few people around here -- could be seen to directly conflict with "working within the political system."
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:00 AM NHFT
I have heard from another person who listens more regularly that Ian and Mark also dispense advice on how to register to vote in NH without actually living here, which is yet another form of fraud and directly in conflict with the FSP's longtime mission.
I recall a few weeks ago, a CALLER to the show suggested this sort of voter fraud. As I recall, Ian and Mark said it could be done, but didn't seem too hot on the idea themselves. I remember nothing of either Ian or Mark advocating voter fraud.
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:00 AM NHFT
As for what FSP leaders think of this, most of the Board disagrees with me on this issue and does not have a problem with continuing to sponsor FTL. Several previous and future Boardmembers do agree with me.
I'd be sorry to see the FSP stop sponsoring FTL, especially when it seems that someone behind the scenes is feeding people misinformation in order to bring about exactly that. Were it to happen for these reasons, it would definitely sour my view of the FSP.
The FSP need FTL more than the other way around.
LOL @ Alaska :D
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:06 AM NHFT
Now that you've gone all gangsta bling bling, it's all about the Bentleys and ho's, isn't it? :'(
???
I don't like Bentleys.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 07:51 AM NHFT
The only thing I have ever said about anything going on at the O list is that when any controversy about anything going on in Keene comes up You, Jean, Lynn and Amanda, and sometimes Steve go absolutely beserk and Jon, Dreep, (maybe some male I'm forgetting) and Jason, to a lesser extent, try to bring some rational thought to the situation.
How do I get on this O list?
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 08:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 07:51 AM NHFT
The only thing I have ever said about anything going on at the O list is that when any controversy about anything going on in Keene comes up You, Jean, Lynn and Amanda, and sometimes Steve go absolutely beserk and Jon, Dreep, (maybe some male I'm forgetting) and Jason, to a lesser extent, try to bring some rational thought to the situation.
How do I get on this O list?
I think it involves lots of hazing followed by eating a bucket of Oreos. ;D
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on February 06, 2007, 08:37 AM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 08:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 07:51 AM NHFT
The only thing I have ever said about anything going on at the O list is that when any controversy about anything going on in Keene comes up You, Jean, Lynn and Amanda, and sometimes Steve go absolutely beserk and Jon, Dreep, (maybe some male I'm forgetting) and Jason, to a lesser extent, try to bring some rational thought to the situation.
How do I get on this O list?
I think it involves lots of hazing followed by eating a bucket of Oreos. ;D
Uh Oh! Somebody's been talking and it wasn't me!
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 08:18 AM NHFT
How do I get on this O list?
http://youtube.com/watch?v=-MUfB4xZgsA
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:19 AM NHFT
Y'all clearly know and like Mark .... I've never met Mark, and have no reason to like or dislike him on a personal level. This isn't about Mark. It's about Free Talk Live and its audience of thousands, and about donors' money, and about public perception, current and future, and about the reputations of FSP'ers who are/want to be involved in politics.
Thanks for all your answers Sandy. 8) You seemed kinda mad and I was wondering why. I was guessing it had something to do with your involvement with the FSP.
Mark and I are not great buds, but he is a decent guy. We disagree on a lot of stuff. I am a radical. He is not.
I think that FTLive will continue to talk about "illegal" activities because Ian is an anarchist and is willing to do illegal things. Sometimes I don't agree with their tactics, but it doesn't effect me much since I don't pay for their show.
I mostly like what they do on their show and like the guys they recruit to NH and especially Keene to join our nonviolent revolution. :)
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 07:51 AM NHFT
Sandy. Who the HELL are you to accuse me of sharing private conversations about anything?
Wow! I thought you liked Sandy. That FSP O-list must be getting to you. "Get me off this crazy train." :)
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:06 AM NHFT
I'm not an FSP Board member.
Gee, I liked you better when you were the trolling fisher. Now that you've gone all gangsta bling bling, it's all about the Bentleys and ho's, isn't it? :'(
:lol:
So when did you leave the FSP board .... or did your term just finish?
Who replaced you?
To me it makes sense for members ... not the FSP to sponser FTLive. There are lots of guys that support them.
Quote from: alaska on February 06, 2007, 09:11 AM NHFT
Sandy...formerly from California?
.... and you are?
Sandy is my friend ..... and you are hiding behind a mountian avatar and an entire state. :)
Do you have a fake name like Mark on the air?
At least Bill Grennon uses his real name and tells it like it is. I have really gained respect for him because of what he has posted in the last week or two.
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 08:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:06 AM NHFT
Now that you've gone all gangsta bling bling, it's all about the Bentleys and ho's, isn't it? :'(
???
I don't like Bentleys.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 07:51 AM NHFT
The only thing I have ever said about anything going on at the O list is that when any controversy about anything going on in Keene comes up You, Jean, Lynn and Amanda, and sometimes Steve go absolutely beserk and Jon, Dreep, (maybe some male I'm forgetting) and Jason, to a lesser extent, try to bring some rational thought to the situation.
How do I get on this O list?
An opening occurs in the Board. An attractive Brunette from......say.......43 degrees .49 north.....71degrees .75 west.....says, "Lloyd, why don't you run? I'd vote for you!" You throw your hat into the ring...........and find yourself running against Luminaries like Sandy and Morrey, probably, much more capable than yourself.
The vote occurs......43degrees.49 N X 71degrees.75W is out of town.....doesn't vote, and fortunatly, I don't win. For the door prize, I get put on the 'O' mailing list. An honor I would guess, some think, was a mistake. From time to time I chime in, but, I keep forgetting how to reply to the whole group and many of my posts are lost.
The
only thing I have ever discussed about the O list is the gender heavy, divide I see on the O list whenever anything comes up about the Keene folks. Most of the women over react and the men try to bring reason to the subject. I only comment, because as a practicing Praexologist and Feminist for over 35 years, I find this absolutely Amazing. I should be doubly amazed in a group of libertarians.
MD, I'm thinking that if you started hating the Keene folks more than you hate the FSP, you'd have a chance of getting on the Board
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 06, 2007, 09:09 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 07:51 AM NHFT
Sandy. Who the HELL are you to accuse me of sharing private conversations about anything?
Wow! I thought you liked Sandy. That FSP O-list must be getting to you. "Get me off this crazy train." :)
I like Sandy, and, if she left the Board for the reasons I assume, I continue to be impressed. There is a lot of stuff
actually happing in NH , although at this stage of the game we are just pushing against a big rock. A lot of that stuff is right up the road from Sandy, one of the few members of the O list to make the move.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 09:45 AM NHFT
The vote occurs......43degrees.49 N X 71degrees.75W is out of town.
That put me in VT
43,0 put me close to keene :)
Page 38, D6
It doesnt change my opinion of Mark. He did the crime, and served
his time. Having worked with convicted murderers, most of them
appear totally average.
I just think money_dollars is jealous. ::) ::) ::) ::) *hides*
-- Bridget
What is with you and the underscore?
So Mark is no longer going to MC LF stuff?
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 02:01 PM NHFT
What is with you and the underscore?
Cause I'm a pedantic *nix user. >:D
QuoteSo Mark is no longer going to MC LF stuff?
Wark?!
-- Bridget
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 02:01 PM NHFT
What is with you and the underscore?
Cause I'm a pedantic *nix user. >:D
If you were pedantic as you say, wouldn't you be citing his name as:
money\ dollars
?
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:08 PM NHFT
QuoteSo Mark is no longer going to MC LF stuff?
Wark?!
Chocobo??
Quote from: eques on February 06, 2007, 04:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 02:01 PM NHFT
What is with you and the underscore?
Cause I'm a pedantic *nix user. >:D
If you were pedantic as you say, wouldn't you be citing his name as:
money\ dollars
?
Nah, I prefer underscore because \ is redundant and a sloppy work around on file naming. :) So it's either MoneyDollars or money_dollars, or Money_Dollars...
QuoteQuote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:08 PM NHFT
QuoteSo Mark is no longer going to MC LF stuff?
Wark?!
Chocobo??
o_O Nani?
-- Bridget
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:15 PM NHFT
Quote from: eques on February 06, 2007, 04:10 PM NHFT
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 02:01 PM NHFT
What is with you and the underscore?
Cause I'm a pedantic *nix user. >:D
If you were pedantic as you say, wouldn't you be citing his name as:
money\ dollars
?
Nah, I prefer underscore because \ is redundant and a sloppy work around on file naming. :) So it's either MoneyDollars or money_dollars, or Money_Dollars...
I guess there are as many forms of pedantry as there are *nix users... ;)
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:15 PM NHFT
QuoteQuote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 04:08 PM NHFT
QuoteSo Mark is no longer going to MC LF stuff?
Wark?!
Chocobo??
o_O Nani?
FF7!
Quote from: eques on February 06, 2007, 04:54 PM NHFTI guess there are as many forms of pedantry as there are *nix users... ;)
Yeah, I hate my university because they use the CSH shell, when I use BASH at home. >_<
QuoteFF7!
No wai!
-- Bridget
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 05:01 PM NHFT
Quote from: eques on February 06, 2007, 04:54 PM NHFTI guess there are as many forms of pedantry as there are *nix users... ;)
Yeah, I hate my university because they use the CSH shell, when I use BASH at home. >_<
chsh
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:00 AM NHFT
Any one of a number of things that Mark said on the air a week ago directly conflict with the stated methods and goals of the FSP i.e. to work within the political system to reduce the size and scope of government.
Hmmm.
I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.Nothing there about working "within the political system". Many here see the "system" as being impractical and contrary to "the fullest practical effort".
Kevin
+1 for KB. I don't know where they got this "within the political system" crap.
Whew, Caleb saved me from having to applaud KBCraig :)
I think it was in an earlier version of the SOI
Quote from: Caleb on February 06, 2007, 05:19 PM NHFT
+1 for KB. I don't know where they got this "within the political system" crap.
It must have been in the OLD pledge. Or perhaps in someone's imagination.
The SOI once said sole role, then changed to maximum role. The within stuff came from a change to "what is the FSP" on Nov 13, 2002.
What Jon said
No
I have only one relevant thing to add to this discussion.
It is very important because I have seen some sloppy, stupid, and frankly dangerous things suggested.
tcsh
Quote from: Kat Kanning on February 06, 2007, 05:21 PM NHFT
Whew, Caleb saved me from having to applaud KBCraig :)
*whew!* That was close! ;)
Quote from: ladyattis on February 06, 2007, 05:01 PM NHFT
Quote from: eques on February 06, 2007, 04:54 PM NHFTI guess there are as many forms of pedantry as there are *nix users... ;)
Yeah, I hate my university because they use the CSH shell, when I use BASH at home. >_<
bash FTW!
When I was in college, I think I modified the .cshrc to spawn bash when I logged on...
Quote from: error on February 06, 2007, 05:07 PM NHFT
chsh
Boo!
Quote from: d_goddard on February 06, 2007, 07:57 PM NHFT
tcsh
BOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!
What are you folks carrying on about? I feel like
Helen Keller in a lecture hall, minus the socialism.
Quote from: mraaron on February 06, 2007, 11:49 PM NHFT
What are you folks carrying on about?
They're speaking in *nix geek secret code. Sort of rival gangstas flashing signs.
Big deal.
In my day, we wrote and debugged programs in Apple Basic on a IIe to present full-color drawings to the class on a Macintosh. I made a Christmas tree with random-colored lines and twinkling lights, green presents with multi-colored ribbons and bows, and I would've had Rudolf and his red nose too, but I ran out of time.
Fear my skilz!
In Jr. High school I had a TRS-80 Color Computer. I got the EDTASM cart so I could write in 6809 assembler directly -- fuck that "Basic" crap!
Ha! My Tandy 1000 ate your TRS 80 for breakfast!
Ha .... I made other kids write my programs for me.... just like I do know.
Well, I've written programs in binary. Take that!
Thesis:
After 1 million punch cards and 2,000 runs, I can say with 95% confidence that 3 < 2+2 < 5 and that the #4 lightbulb on the Cray output panel has a 100-use MTBF.
Yeah, well in my day we had to write in binary, but we couldn't afford 1s. We had to pound the 0s flat and all the other kids made fun of us and threw pocket protectors at us.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on February 07, 2007, 09:10 AM NHFT
Well, I've written programs in binary. Take that!
OK, you got me.
I did code directly in hex opcodes for awhile, once I got familiar enough with the assembler instruction set.
Eques == emacs user. If not, I'll eat my shoe. I mean look at him. ^-^
Quote from: Barterer on February 07, 2007, 10:48 AM NHFT
Eques == emacs user. If not, I'll eat my shoe. I mean look at him. ^-^
Hope you like "sole" food.
Har har har.
emacs?? are you out of your gourd?
Then again, I'm not even true "vi"... I have to settle for "vim."
Aw shoot <munch munch munch> ack, the "bootstraps!"
I'd run vim too, except I haven't scratched 1% of vi's features yet. Baby steps. ::)
I would challenge anyone's assertion that they have "written" programs in binary. You had to have at least written some pseudo code on paper in assembler/diagrams to organize your program and then you painstakingly "translated" the pseudo code into binary (much like a compiler translates assembler into binary).
Unless we're talking adding two numbers together or something else as trivial.
Quote from: Barterer on February 07, 2007, 11:20 AM NHFT
Aw shoot <munch munch munch> ack, the "bootstraps!"
I'd run vim too, except I haven't scratched 1% of vi's features yet. Baby steps. ::)
One of the things that I don't like about vi is that you cannot set the 'backspace' parameter, which allows you to delete text not entered in your current 'insert' session if you so choose, among other things.
Maybe it's a 'bastardization' of vi, but vim makes my text editing experience that much more enjoyable.
I think that, for me, I just never got off the ground with emacs. vi/vim seemed more intuitive from the get-go (well, as intuitive as an arcane *nix text editor can be that isn't 'pico').
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on February 07, 2007, 11:28 AM NHFT
I would challenge anyone's assertion that they have "written" programs in binary. You had to have at least written some pseudo code on paper in assembler/diagrams to organize your program and then you painstakingly "translated" the pseudo code into binary (much like a compiler translates assembler into binary).
Unless we're talking adding two numbers together or something else as trivial.
OK, you got me. I was just joking. :P
I think that the appropriate paradigm prior to "I programmed in binary!" is "I programmed in transistors!!!" and then "I programmed in vacuum tubes!!!" and then, "I programmed in Babbage's Difference Engine!!!! HURRR!!!!"
Quote from: Lex Berezhny on February 07, 2007, 11:28 AM NHFT
I would challenge anyone's assertion that they have "written" programs in binary. You had to have at least written some pseudo code on paper in assembler/diagrams to organize your program and then you painstakingly "translated" the pseudo code into binary (much like a compiler translates assembler into binary).
No... it's not that hard.
If you work in assembler for a few weeks, you come to know the dozen or so most common common opcodes. The 6809 only had, what 4 or 5 registers and one user stack so there's just not that much to have to keep organized in your head.
Stuff like graphics demos or a simple pong-like game are not terribly hard to do in hex directly under conditions like that. And the hex is just a shorthand for binary, right?
I do so miss being a coder... all this "managing people" stuff is nowhere near as fun. Even less fun is managing customers. Maybe one day I'll "retire" and just be a coder again.
Quote from: eques on February 07, 2007, 11:55 AM NHFT
I think that the appropriate paradigm prior to "I programmed in binary!" is "I programmed in transistors!!!" and then "I programmed in vacuum tubes!!!" and then, "I programmed in Babbage's Difference Engine!!!! HURRR!!!!"
Actually my Dad "programmed" with wires and breadboards back in the day. He worked for an engineering firm... I don't know what model of computer it was, but it had vacuum tubes and you had to plug wires into various places to control the logic.
Quote from: d_goddard on February 07, 2007, 12:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: eques on February 07, 2007, 11:55 AM NHFT
I think that the appropriate paradigm prior to "I programmed in binary!" is "I programmed in transistors!!!" and then "I programmed in vacuum tubes!!!" and then, "I programmed in Babbage's Difference Engine!!!! HURRR!!!!"
Actually my Dad "programmed" with wires and breadboards back in the day. He worked for an engineering firm... I don't know what model of computer it was, but it had vacuum tubes and you had to plug wires into various places to control the logic.
Awesome--now we just need to find somebody who programmed with gears!
Quote from: eques on February 07, 2007, 12:09 PM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on February 07, 2007, 12:07 PM NHFT
Quote from: eques on February 07, 2007, 11:55 AM NHFT
I think that the appropriate paradigm prior to "I programmed in binary!" is "I programmed in transistors!!!" and then "I programmed in vacuum tubes!!!" and then, "I programmed in Babbage's Difference Engine!!!! HURRR!!!!"
Actually my Dad "programmed" with wires and breadboards back in the day. He worked for an engineering firm... I don't know what model of computer it was, but it had vacuum tubes and you had to plug wires into various places to control the logic.
Awesome--now we just need to find somebody who programmed with gears!
Dr. Emmett Brown was doing some remarkable work in this area prior to his mysterious disappearance in 1985, or was it 1955?
Quote from: d_goddard on February 07, 2007, 12:04 PM NHFT
And the hex is just a shorthand for binary, right?
By the same logic you can say that Visual Basic is shorthand for binary. It just so happens that converting from hex to binary is trivial while converting from visual basic to binary involves a great deal more work.
In any case, if you say you can program in binary than I expect to see nothing but 1s and 0s on your screen. Hex would make things slightly more manageable and thus less difficult ;-)
For the ultimate handicap, you have to use pico to edit your binary code ;D
Hmm... would it even be possible to use pico to edit binary? If there is no binary mode in pico than I guess that makes it even harder :icon_pirat:
Off-off-topic:
I tried to be clever on my resume: I had a summary which listed a bunch of pertinent things... right at the end, I put:
- Love vim; could do without emacs.
I interviewed at a popular VoIP provider that rhymes with "Vonage."
The guy who interviewed me tells me that he was one of the major contributors to emacs.
Dohhhh!!!!
Actually, it was kind of funny, but I felt just a bit embarassed, too.
Quote from: eques on February 07, 2007, 01:14 PM NHFT
Off-off-topic:
I tried to be clever on my resume: I had a summary which listed a bunch of pertinent things... right at the end, I put:
- Love vim; could do without emacs.
I interviewed at a popular VoIP provider that rhymes with "Vonage."
The guy who interviewed me tells me that he was one of the major contributors to emacs.
Dohhhh!!!!
Actually, it was kind of funny, but I felt just a bit embarassed, too.
How the fuck is it off topic? ???
We went from Mark killing someone to how streets get numbered back to mark and now to unix editing. I think castle chaser said it.... nothing is offtopic... ;D
vi virtually impossible. ;)
Quote from: Dreepa on February 07, 2007, 02:44 PM NHFT
vi virtually impossible
-1
What are you, some kind of PHB? :P
Quote from: d_goddard on February 07, 2007, 02:53 PM NHFT
Quote from: Dreepa on February 07, 2007, 02:44 PM NHFT
vi virtually impossible
-1
What are you, some kind of PHB? :P
Actually... I use vi everyday all day... I just like that joke... .When I worked for Uncle Larry I had to train people on Oracle..... and they wouldn't know unix or vi ... you wanna talk pain? :'(
What the hell are you guys talking about? Am I the only technoidiot here besides Rainey...and I say this with love, Rainey, I swear ;)
Quote from: d_goddard on February 07, 2007, 12:04 PM NHFT
I do so miss being a coder... all this "managing people" stuff is nowhere near as fun. Even less fun is managing customers. Maybe one day I'll "retire" and just be a coder again.
I don't understand why most orgs bump good doers into managers. I agree with the peter principle book and even better .... the dilbert principle. :)
I don't program. I like to use programs. :)
In order to expand my marketability, I'm attempting to sell myself as some sort of trainer (and I have references to back that up, too).
I sort of forgot about it, as well as how much I enjoyed it.
I don't think I want to manage people, though... I'd rather instruct and inform.
Coding? Yeah, I could do it... but I just get bored/distracted too easily.
Quote from: eques on February 07, 2007, 03:31 PM NHFT
In order to expand my marketability, I'm attempting to sell myself as some sort of trainer (and I have references to back that up, too).
I did it for 4 years. (trainer)
Russell I agree... I like managers who are somewhat technical so you can talk to them but I also like manager who 'get out of the way'.
C
Managing people and customers for someone else's profit is for the birds. I work for myself now. It's much better that way, even if my boss is an asshole. ;D
Quote from: error on February 07, 2007, 03:39 PM NHFT
Managing people and customers for someone else's profit is for the birds.
Hey, I get stock options and a salary. I don't think of it as for "someone else's" profit.
Quote from: error on February 07, 2007, 03:39 PM NHFT
my boss is an asshole
They come in other flavors?
01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011 :P
Quote from: Kat Kanning on February 07, 2007, 04:44 PM NHFT
01100111 01100101 01100101 01101011 :P
bin(01100111) = hex(67) = dec (103) = ascii('g')
bin(01100101) = hex(65) = dec(101) = ascii('e') (x2)
bin(01101011) = hex(6B) = dec(107) = ascii('k')
g e e k
yeah, that'd be me! ;D
groan....
When offered the job of managing people, I declined! I was reminded by this:
"... all this "managing people" stuff is nowhere near as fun. Even less fun is managing customers."
If/when I need to talk to my manager(s), that means things are not well.
My position requires self-management; 24/7.
I like keeping the operation going 24/7, that's what they pay me to do - not to call on them.
If only the government would respect self-government half-as-much.
As far as all that "geek" talk, I haven't a clue.
MHO: MARK SEEMS TO HAVE BEEN ON GOOD BEHAVIOR SINCE GROWING UP & COMING TO NH.
I feel that Mark has come to understand morality now. I totally support him and his right to keep and bear arms. I've even rethought my position on manslaughter charges. I used to think they should be murder charges, but now I see otherwise. Considering Mark almost got his ass nailed to the wall on that charge, it was nice to see that the real perp got his due. It was shocking to originally conceive of Mark's wrong-doing. but finally justice was served. Good Luck Mark! Excelsior my friend! Karma to anyone who knows what excelsior means.
Quote from: Rebel on February 07, 2007, 09:33 PM NHFT
Karma to anyone who knows what excelsior means.
Are you kidding? (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Excelsior) That's the longest Wikipedia disambiguation page I've seen in a while.
Besides, everybody knows it's a hotel.
Shredded wood
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 06, 2007, 07:51 AM NHFT
Sandy. Who the HELL are you to accuse me of sharing private conversations about anything? The only thing I have ever said about anything going on at the O list is that when any controversy about anything going on in Keene comes up You, Jean, Lynn and Amanda, and sometimes Steve go absolutely beserk and Jon, Dreep, (maybe some male I'm forgetting) and Jason, to a lesser extent, try to bring some rational thought to the situation.
Thanks for clarifying that you don't share private discussions... you just describe me as "beserk" to mutual friends behind my back. ::)
Quote
How is it you Know who the future members of the board are going to be?
I don't know. I just have a pretty good guess, based on my participation on both the Doers and Organizers lists.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 06, 2007, 09:08 AM NHFT
Thanks for all your answers Sandy. 8)
You're welcome. :)
Quote
I think that FTLive will continue to talk about "illegal" activities because Ian is an anarchist and is willing to do illegal things. Sometimes I don't agree with their tactics, but it doesn't effect me much since I don't pay for their show.
I no longer pay for their show either via subsidizing the operations of the FSP. That's an extra 2 grand in *my* bank account this year. :D
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 06, 2007, 09:14 AM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 06, 2007, 07:06 AM NHFT
I'm not an FSP Board member.
Gee, I liked you better when you were the trolling fisher. Now that you've gone all gangsta bling bling, it's all about the Bentleys and ho's, isn't it? :'(
:lol:
So when did you leave the FSP board .... or did your term just finish?
Who replaced you?
I stepped down earlier this week. TERM? The FSP don't need no stinkin' TERMS! FSP Directors are, for the most part, unelected and serve without term limits. Kinda like the Supreme Court, only without the cool robes. I did try to bring back both elections and terms of office, but was shot down by the rest of the Board. But I still think terms are a good idea. I served a full year (give or take a few days) and then stepped down.
AFAIK, they haven't selected a new Director yet.
By the way, Russell and Kat... whichever of you bet the other that I "wouldn't last a month" needs to pay up now. ;D
A full year...you're hardcore! :D
That is a whole other factor .... you like to have full info about what you are paying for. I don't like to give to organizations that spend money on causes I don't support.
Quote from: Friday on February 09, 2007, 07:13 AM NHFT
By the way, Russell and Kat... whichever of you bet the other that I "wouldn't last a month" needs to pay up now. ;D
I think I was going with "less than 1 year", so I lost.
I don't think Morey will make it a year. ;)
Quote from: Friday on February 09, 2007, 06:54 AM NHFT
Thanks for clarifying that you don't share private discussions... you just describe me as "beserk" to mutual friends behind my back. ::)
What part of 'the only thing I ever said' don't you understand? Also, I know you read this forum, so, it was, hardly, behind your back. I stand behind my claim that whenever Russell came up or anything that was perceived in to be happening in Keenecame up, while the men agreed that antics from the non political types could have a negative effect on the FSP, but, little could be done, the women, for the most part were calling for their heads. I can't, in all honesty, remember everything you said, but, the complaints ran along gender lines which should be a greater concern to you(if you were still on the board) than anything I said.
I believe you are sincere in your concerns about the FSP. Same with Jean. I think it is clear from the most recent O list posts from Amanda and Lynn that they are concerned about their resumes.
Lloyd
Quote from: Friday on February 09, 2007, 06:59 AM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 06, 2007, 09:08 AM NHFT
Thanks for all your answers Sandy. 8)
You're welcome. :)
Quote
I think that FTLive will continue to talk about "illegal" activities because Ian is an anarchist and is willing to do illegal things. Sometimes I don't agree with their tactics, but it doesn't effect me much since I don't pay for their show.
I no longer pay for their show either via subsidizing the operations of the FSP. That's an extra 2 grand in *my* bank account this year. :D
Good for You ;)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 09, 2007, 07:47 AM NHFT
Quote from: Friday on February 09, 2007, 07:13 AM NHFT
By the way, Russell and Kat... whichever of you bet the other that I "wouldn't last a month" needs to pay up now. ;D
I think I was going with "less than 1 year", so I lost.
I don't think Morey will make it a year. ;)
Morey was elected to the board in January 2006.
tick tick tick
doh .... I lost again
Quote from: money dollars on February 06, 2007, 08:18 AM NHFT
How do I get on this O list?
Jason has to approve you. He controls the list.
Probably has some regrets over previous decisions about it.
Quote from: Caleb on February 06, 2007, 05:19 PM NHFT
+1 for KB. I don't know where they got this "within the political system" crap.
Um, from the FSP website, top center of the home page, where it sat for years...... ::) Since I already had this exact same conversation with Lloyd on the O-List several months ago, I'll just copy my response to him on 7/24/2006 here:
Quote
Lloyd,
Apologies for not providing a reference earlier. This website: http://www.archive.org/index.php shows what websites looked like in the past. If you type our URL in where it says Wayback Machine, you'll be presented with numerous hyperlinked dates. Clicking on the dates shows what our website looked like at various points in the past. I clicked on the topmost date in each of three years, 2003, 2004 and 2005, all of which show our former mission statement.
I really didn't think this was going to surprise anybody. I don't understand why you think a fraud has been perpetrated. If I recall correctly, the current version of the mission statement is what got some people all riled up last year, feeling that too much time was spent on it, and triggering Pat K's Underground signature "I think the BUS needs a snowplow" (I was not involved in either the crafting, or the debates of the crafting)....
--Sandy
All I see on the front page is
QuoteWhat the Free State Project is not... We are not a political action organization. We are not tied to any political party or organization; we do not run candidates for election, we do not financially support or endorse candidates, and we do not oppose or endorse legislation. All these things will be done by friendly organizations with which many Free Staters are involved.
If I remember accurately, The discussion was that the original MS stated participants would work politically. It was changed and made more inclusive, by the board, without feedback from members, who, had joined under a 'different' MS. I can't say I had been paying a lot of attention. When I found out about it, I felt defrauded. Seth pointed out it was good fraud, and, I shouldn't complain because it made the FSP more inclusive, which is a good thing. I agree, but, it was still done behind members backs or, at least, without asking them.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on February 10, 2007, 09:25 AM NHFT
All I see on the front page is
QuoteWhat the Free State Project is not... We are not a political action organization. We are not tied to any political party or organization; we do not run candidates for election, we do not financially support or endorse candidates, and we do not oppose or endorse legislation. All these things will be done by friendly organizations with which many Free Staters are involved.
The FSP mission statement was, for years, "...work within the political system...." In 2005 the Board-at-that-time reworked the mission statement, taking a great deal of criticism and jibes from some people on this forum for doing so. Now, some of the very same people are claiming that the mission statement was never reworded in the first place. :P
Quote from: the beserker on February 10, 2007, 09:43 AM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on February 10, 2007, 09:25 AM NHFT
All I see on the front page is
QuoteWhat the Free State Project is not... We are not a political action organization. We are not tied to any political party or organization; we do not run candidates for election, we do not financially support or endorse candidates, and we do not oppose or endorse legislation. All these things will be done by friendly organizations with which many Free Staters are involved.
The FSP mission statement was, for years, "...work within the political system...." In 2005 the Board-at-that-time reworked the mission statement, taking a great deal of criticism and jibes from some people on this forum for doing so.
I said I wasn't paying attention
QuoteNow, some of the very same people are claiming that the mission statement was never reworded in the first place. :P
Not Me! Although, there was something about the original 'sell' for the FSP, that lead me to believe it was inclusive since the beginning.
You know, not many have been around as long as I have. My member number was pretty low having joined in early 2002. I can't swear what was on the front page, but whatever it was, I never felt that we were signing on to required political activity. I knew some would, but there was also a lot of liberty friendly community building suggestions as possible activism. I was really shocked when some members seemed to demand political activity "because that's what we all signed up for". It is so unlibertarian.
Cathleen
As we have covered in the past, there has been intollerence on both sides.
#1101 or 1116. something like that. I emailed Jason just before the vote to make sure i was going to get a package. He assured me I was and gave a membership number 11 something. I didn't know there were numbers. With the 1000 that dropped out post vote and the couple thousand joined since 1100 something should be the new 500 ;D
Quote from: the beserker on February 10, 2007, 09:21 AM NHFT
Quote from: Caleb on February 06, 2007, 05:19 PM NHFT
+1 for KB. I don't know where they got this "within the political system" crap.
Um, from the FSP website, top center of the home page, where it sat for years...... ::) Since I already had this exact same conversation with Lloyd on the O-List several months ago, I'll just copy my response to him on 7/24/2006 here:
Quote
Lloyd,
Apologies for not providing a reference earlier. This website: http://www.archive.org/index.php shows what websites looked like in the past. If you type our URL in where it says Wayback Machine, you'll be presented with numerous hyperlinked dates. Clicking on the dates shows what our website looked like at various points in the past. I clicked on the topmost date in each of three years, 2003, 2004 and 2005, all of which show our former mission statement.
I really didn't think this was going to surprise anybody. I don't understand why you think a fraud has been perpetrated. If I recall correctly, the current version of the mission statement is what got some people all riled up last year, feeling that too much time was spent on it, and triggering Pat K's Underground signature "I think the BUS needs a snowplow" (I was not involved in either the crafting, or the debates of the crafting)....
--Sandy
Alright. This is all before my time. At any rate, I don't see what a previous statement of intent has to do with current obligations. I signed on after all the "much ado about nothing." And I tend to think that all the debate is meaningless anyway, because "political activity" is sort of all in the eye of the beholder. In many people's opinions, Russell is highly politically involved because of his commentary on political issues in the political arena. From the viewpoint of himself (and others) he's not politically involved at all.
If we can't all agree that advocating war is advocating violence (and thus out of bounds per the FSP prohibition against advocating violence), then how on earth can we hold some people to a particular definition of a statement that isn't even included in the statement of intent anymore?
Well I will feel left out if I don't comment.
I was more amused than riled up about the
Great mission statement rewrite.
Heck if you still have the 2005
Porc Fest book, you can see I praised the Glory
of Mission statement. :)
I just could not believe that this was what folks thought
was causing a recruiting lag.
But now I think I was wrong as alot of folks
seem to want to Analise it still.
I think both sides politico and non should agree
that their not going to agree alot of the time.
Work together when they can and avoid bad mouthing each other.
I plan as I always have to support both.
The snow plow should still be ready for quick attachment though. :)
I just want to throw in here that I've known about the FSP for years. But I never decided to actually sign the SOI and move until the SoI was changed.
I've also said repeatedly that those who are working within the system, and those working outside the system, need to work together and learn from each other. I'm happy to see that, for the most part, they are and they do.
Quote from: the beserker on February 06, 2007, 07:00 AM NHFT
I have heard from another person who listens more regularly that Ian and Mark also dispense advice on how to register to vote in NH without actually living here, which is yet another form of fraud and directly in conflict with the FSP's longtime mission.
You should avoid heresay. FYI, I attack Mark when he mentions that sort of thing.
QuoteAs for what FSP leaders think of this, most of the Board disagrees with me on this issue and does not have a problem with continuing to sponsor FTL.
Sensible of the board.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on February 09, 2007, 08:05 AM NHFT
I believe you are sincere in your concerns about the FSP. Same with Jean. I think it is clear from the most recent O list posts from Amanda and Lynn that they are concerned about their resumes.
Lloyd
I can only imagine the handwringing of FTL's detractors over this... ::)
alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me. :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 11, 2007, 07:54 AM NHFT
alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me. :)
;D
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 11, 2007, 07:54 AM NHFT
alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me. :)
... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
You've spoiled it for
everyone ;)
That's it! I'm going back to that old shitty state.
If we can't all agree on everything, I'm out of here.
If it looks bad on my resume, I'll explain that I'm just a "people person" and can't stand being around folks who argue all the time.
I really don't care about Freedom, Liberty & Justice. I just though we could all get along.
Quote from: John on February 11, 2007, 07:23 PM NHFT
That's it! I'm going back to that old shitty state.
If we can't all agree on everything, I'm out of here.
If it looks bad on my resume, I'll explain that I'm just a "people person" and can't stand being around folks who argue all the time.
I really don't care about Freedom, Liberty & Justice. I just though we could all get along.
Oh jeez there goes John, talking about Freedom, Liberty & Justice. don't he know there are arguments to win, points to be scored and people put in there place.Man what kind of libertarian are you?
Quote from: d_goddard on February 11, 2007, 12:13 PM NHFT
... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
how many Keene anarchists does it take to complete a revolution? :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 12, 2007, 08:59 AM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on February 11, 2007, 12:13 PM NHFT
... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
how many Keene anarchists does it take to complete a revolution? :)
All of them? 8)
Quote from: d_goddard on February 11, 2007, 12:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 11, 2007, 07:54 AM NHFT
alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me. :)
... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
You've spoiled it for everyone ;)
They can only ruin things I didn't ruin first. :P
Quote from: money dollars on February 12, 2007, 09:43 AM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on February 11, 2007, 12:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 11, 2007, 07:54 AM NHFT
alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me. :)
... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
You've spoiled it for everyone ;)
They can only ruin things I didn't ruin first. :P
What have you ruined MD?
Quote from: money dollars on February 12, 2007, 09:43 AM NHFT
Quote from: d_goddard on February 11, 2007, 12:13 PM NHFT
Quote from: Russell Kanning on February 11, 2007, 07:54 AM NHFT
alright ..... mark and Ian are "ruining it for the rest of us" at much higher levels than me. :)
... and the bits that Mark and Ian aren't ruining, are being ruined by Russ and the other "Keene anarchists!"
You've spoiled it for everyone ;)
They can only ruin things I didn't ruin first. :P
:icon_pirat: