I just finished watching the movie Gandhi last night and am truly inspired more than ever before to throw a wrench into this system.
Alright, guys and girls, I wanna do some civil disobedience, but need some ideas.
Requirements:
-MUST be peaceful, non-violent, non-cooperation.
-MUST violate a blatantly unjust law (especially laws which discriminate based on race, sex, age, nationality, etc.).
-MUST attract at least 50 people, including the police and the press.
-MUST cause an immediate, severe response by the police.
[The plan so far...added by Kat for the calendar]
I don't think we'll be arrested unless this is done on Monday. We need to do what we can to guarantee an immediate reaction. I'll do everything in my power to bring as many people as I can to the event but I really need help with publicity otherwise the media will not pay attention to our arrests.
It's probably a good idea to announce it as a civil disobedience. We are fighting against these laws because they have destroyed our freedom to make a living without government approval.
Please feel free to bring your friends, family, anti-licensing signs, cameras, and a positive attitude! Smiley
When: Monday, May 9, at 12:00pm (noon). We will preferably begin services when the police arrive.
Where: NH Board of Cosmetology. 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301
What: Haircuts, massages, and manicures. Shampoos if possible, but we will need a source of warm water and a way to drain used water. We will be accepting cash payment, with tips, for these services. Free services do not violate the law.
Directions to the Board of Cosmetology:
FROM THE SEACOAST
VIA RTE 4,9,202
AFTER THE WEATHERVANE RESTAURANT, THE ROAD SPLITS- RTE 4 IS TO THE RIGHT WITH 393, RTE 9 IS STRAIGHT AHEAD. STAY STRAIGHT ON ROUTE 9 OVERHEAD SIGN SAYS CONCORD BUSINESS DISTRICT, CONCORD HEIGHTS
AT LIGHTS, TAKE A LEFT ONTO RTE 106 SOUTH. AT THE 3RD SET OF LIGHTS TAKE A RIGHT ONTO PEMBROKE RD. TAKE THE SECOND LEFT DOWN BETWEEN TWO LONG INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS. WE ARE THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY DOWN ON THE RIGHT.
THERE IS A SIGN NEXT TO OUR DOOR.
OR
RTE 101 WEST TO MANCHESTER TO 93 NORTH
or 89 SOUTH to 93 NORTH
FROM 93 NORTH OR SOUTH
TAKE EXIT 15E THAT PUTS YOU ONTO 393E GO TO EXIT 3. AT THE END OF THE RAMP BEAR TO THE RIGHT. THAT PUTS YOU ONTO RTE 106S GO TO THE 4TH SET OF LIGHTS AND TAKE A RIGHT ONTO PEMBROKE RD. TAKE THE SECOND LEFT DOWN BETWEEN TWO LONG INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS. WE ARE THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY DOWN ON THE RIGHT.
Aha, now you know what happened to us!
Quote from: katdillon on April 11, 2005, 12:15 PM NHFT
Aha, now you know what happened to us!
Apparently.? :)
Idea:
-Publicly set a time and place to sell alcohol to anyone 18-20 years old.
Idea:
-Publicly set a time and place to burn $1 bills.
From what I hear, this is against the law.? This will help us promote recognition of Gresham's Law and protest against fiat currency laws and the Federal Reserve.
Idea:
-Publicly set a time and place to sell manicures, pedicures, haircuts, and other cosmetological services without a license.
List of Licensed Occupations in New Hampshire
http://www.nhes.state.nh.us/elmi/licertreg.htm
New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics
http://www.state.nh.us/cosmet/
This would be pretty fun actually.? :)? Here's all the stuff we could do:
Manicurist:? Clean, shape, and polish customers' fingernails and toenails, and remove previously applied nail polish, using liquid remover and swabs. Shape and smooth ends of nails, using scissors and files. Clean customers' nails. Polish nails, using powdered polish and buffer, or apply clear or colored liquid polish onto nails with brush.
Cosmetology:? Help people look attractive by giving shampoos, cutting and styling hair and giving advice on hair care. Straighten, curl, bleach, or dye hair. Give manicures and facials, advise on the use of makeup, and clean and style wigs and hairpieces.
Barber:? Cut, trim, and style hair. May also color or straighten hair and fit hairpieces. Many barbers offer other services such as hair and scalp treatments, face massages, shaves, and shampoos.
Esthetician:? Provides beauty services for customers. Give facials, apply makeup, give therapeutic skin care treatments, remove superfluous hair, and apply eyelashes.
Massage Practitioner: Massage clients and administer other body conditioning treatments to promote, maintain, or restore health and well-being.
If we do this, we'll need to make sure we take all the necessary safety precautions, and preferably know what we're doing.? ;)
I love your energy, LR6. This is very exciting, and I can't wait to announce whatever you decide on Free Talk Live.
I'd be real wary of the burning $1 bills one, that will raise the ire of the Secret Service. If you're going to be arrested, better they keep you in NH in a jail we know about, instead of packing you into some private plane and taking you to who knows where.
Stick with violating an NH law for now untill you have 50 people willing to burn bills all at once.
These ideas sound interesting...I think I like the liquor sale idea best so far, since it would draw in young folks of whom we have a deficit. but maybe it's not innocuous enough. The shampoo wash might be more likely to generate support.
I like the selling alcohol idea and the burning dollars thing. 8)
I bet if everyone on this list read Civil Disobedience and watched the Gandhi movie....we would have a dozen more crazy activists like Mike Fisher and myself.
I have a few more days to decide what I am going to do otherwise I will never get started. We have to act .... not wait for our numbers to be high enough. We can always keep putting off action.
Is it really illegal to burn your own money?
A cadre of liberty ladies going to a nursing home and, in defiance of the law, shampooing the old ladies hair for them.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 11, 2005, 08:15 PM NHFT
Is it really illegal to burn your own money?
Yes, and technically, it's the FED's money that you're holding. By burning it, you're effectively setting $1 of the national debt on fire. I don't think we're ready to take on the Secret Service quite yet! :o :o
We want a government response.? Here's how I rank these by the severity and likelihood of the government's response:
Selling alcohol to adults ages 18-20:? Very High
Burning $1's:? Medium to High
Publicly violating professional esthetics licensing laws:? Medium to Low
Selling alcohol is the highest risk, highest return idea we have to go with so far.? We'll be arrested for violating liquor licensing laws, selling to "minors", and probably a host of other laws.
Any other ideas?
Idea:
-Publicly perform letter-delivery which directly competes with the US Postal Service.
Risk:? Low.
-Actually deliver letters into mailboxes.
Risk:? Medium to High
From what I hear, this was banned in 1825, but I cannot find the actual law anywhere.? The risk of being arrested for this is very low unless we actually put something in someone's mailbox, in which case the risk is medium to high.? I've heard that such action would be a federal offense.
Idea:
-When passports are required to travel to Canada, we can organize a public passport burning.
It is likely that passports will soon be required to travel to Canada. Passports are usually the property of the issuing government, not the citizen.? High risk, potential for a very large effect.? This is almost exactly how Gandhi started out.? In South Africa, he organized a public burning of ID papers that were only required for non-whites.
Risk:? High
Here are some government monopolies we can target.? Maybe this will help us come up with more ideas.
Current US and NH Government Monopolies:
-Public schools.
-Postal services.? (http://www.cato.org/pub_display.php?pub_id=913)
-Lotteries.
-Currencies.
-Roads.
-Alcohol sales.? (Except wine and beer.)
-and many more.
Did you know...
-In British Columbia, Manitoba, Saskatchewan, and Quebec, the government has a monopoly on auto insurance.
-The US government heavily regulates the insurance industry.? Significant price controls are in place, a de facto monopoly.
Gandhi said that for civil disobedience to work, the cause must be just. No one's going to rally behind you for the right to burn $1 bills. Few will rally for what they view as kids' right to drink. Something like delivering mail is a much better idea.
Quote from: katdillon on April 12, 2005, 03:41 AM NHFT
Gandhi said that for civil disobedience to work, the cause must be just.
There you go, spoiling the fun!
'Sokay, I'm fairly certain you and Russell and Mary and me will get along grandly. ;D
Kevin
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 11, 2005, 08:31 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 11, 2005, 08:15 PM NHFT
Is it really illegal to burn your own money?
Yes, and technically, it's the FED's money that you're holding.? By burning it, you're effectively setting $1 of the national debt on fire.? I don't think we're ready to take on the Secret Service quite yet!? ?:o :o
Why is the SS any different than say....the IRS?
Yes. The Secret Service doesn't have to send you written threats that can be ignored. They will come and get you. They get involved with all money issues, even with kids counterfeiting, the SS gets involved.
Quote from: katdillon on April 12, 2005, 03:41 AM NHFT
Gandhi said that for civil disobedience to work, the cause must be just.? No one's going to rally behind you for the right to burn $1 bills.? Few will rally for what they view as kids' right to drink.? Something like delivering mail is a much better idea.
Okay. I've spent time looking through the actual US Code, but cannot find the exact law prohibiting private mail carriers.
Can anyone verify that this is illegal by citing the exact law? Does anyone know of any cases where private mail carriers have been shut down?
If the economy becomes very bad because of the effects of our fiat currency, then burning money would be an excellent way to protest against fiat currency laws and demand the absolute separation of currency and state.
Idea:
-Publicly set a time and place to burn Social Security cards.
Risk:? unknown
The back of my Social Security card states:? "This card is the property of the Social Security Administration..."
Burning these cards would be a symbolic disobedience against forced "retirement" laws, SSN-related privacy violations, and much more.? Unfortunately, I've never heard of anyone being arrested for destroying their SS card, and I'm not sure the government would respond to it.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 12, 2005, 10:08 AM NHFT
If the economy becomes very bad because of the effects of our fiat currency, then burning money would be an excellent way to protest against fiat currency laws and demand the absolute separation of currency and state.
Yes it's a great protest, but only as a group of over 50 participants.
I have a better idea for the fiat currency protest!
Idea:
-Publicly set a time and place to sell something and REFUSE to take Federal Reserve Notes as payment.
Risk:? unknown
At the heart of fiat currency laws, the government mandates that Federal Reserve Notes must be accepted as payment for all debts, public and private.? Therefore, we are not fighting for the right to burn FRNs, we are fighting for the right to REJECT them as payment for our debts!
Perhaps we could sell something symbolic, like copies of the Declaration of Independence, Thoreau's Civil Disobedience, Gandhi's autobiography, etc.? We could have signs that say "Federal Reserve Notes NOT Accepted Here!"? Then we would only accept FOREIGN silver and gold bullion.
I've never heard of anyone being arrested for this, and I'm not sure where the exact law is, but I know it's illegal and may cause a government response.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 12, 2005, 10:58 AM NHFT
I have a better idea for the fiat currency protest!
Idea:
-Publicly set a time and place to sell something and REFUSE to take Federal Reserve Notes as payment.
Definitely safer. While I have heard that everyone must accept FRN's, I question it. Some gas stations and fast food places will not take 50s or 100s. If it's really true that all businesses must take "legal tender" wouldn't these places be in violation of that?
QuoteFederal Reserve Notes must be accepted as payment for all debts, public and private.
Is a "sale" a debt? I certainly don't think so. It's a transaction. A trade of one thing of value for another. Perhaps there really isn't a law mandating "legal tender" be accepted for sales. I'm interested to find out.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 12, 2005, 11:49 AM NHFT
Definitely safer.? While I have heard that everyone must accept FRN's, I question it.? Some gas stations and fast food places will not take 50s or 100s.? If it's really true that all businesses must take "legal tender" wouldn't these places be in violation of that?
Is a "sale" a debt?? I certainly don't think so.? It's a transaction.? A trade of one thing of value for another.? Perhaps there really isn't a law mandating "legal tender" be accepted for sales.? I'm interested to find out.
TITLE 31 > SUBTITLE IV > CHAPTER 51 > SUBCHAPTER I > ? 5103
? 5103. Legal tender
United States coins and currency (including Federal reserve notes and circulating notes of Federal reserve banks and national banks) are legal tender for all debts, public charges, taxes, and dues. Foreign gold or silver coins are not legal tender for debts.
Acceptance of FRNs is clearly mandatory under this law. This forcefully-mandated law is the ONLY reason the US dollar has any value at all. It's the same with any fiat currency.
Gresham's Law: Where fiat currency laws exist, bad money drives out good money.
I'm also positive that anything sold is a "debt" under the law, but that debt is simply paid off immediately in a retail sale. Gas stations and others may reject large denominations of US dollars because they accept smaller bills instead.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 11, 2005, 08:15 PM NHFT
I bet if everyone on this list read Civil Disobedience and watched the Gandhi movie....we would have a dozen more crazy activists like Mike Fisher and myself.
Agreed.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 11, 2005, 08:15 PM NHFT
I have a few more days to decide what I am going to do otherwise I will never get started. We have to act .... not wait for our numbers to be high enough. We can always keep putting off action.
You're right. Do you see anyone else doing this type of civil disobedience? Most people think civil resistance is blocking traffic or chaining themselves to something. As long as the plan is good and the cause is just, I'm there.
And the time is now.
We talked about you last night. Last hour, last part of the hour:
http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL041205B.mp3
I like the Postal Service idea; here's why.
In my neighborhood we had been leaving flyers in neighbors mailboxes telling of events and parties and distributing phone lists. We came to find out that when this was discoverd by the USPS mail carrier they were removed and discarded, and a note was left saying that it was illegal for anyone but the USPS to leave anything in the mailbox because it is FEDERAL PROPERTY! Did you get that? The mailboxes we buy and pay to install on our property belong to the Feds! I haven't investigated this claim so I don't know if they are correct, but, it certainly ticks me off!
My $0.02
Ed
Here's some more info for the civil resistance against New Hampshire's licensing laws:
Chapter 313-A: Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/indexes/313-A.html
And the specific section:
Licensure Required
http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/rsa/html/XXX/313-A/313-A-9.htm
313-A:9 Licensure Required. ? It shall be a misdemeanor for any person to:
I. Engage in any practice regulated by this chapter without the appropriate license.
In other words, shampooing somebody's hair without a license is equivalent to theft, assault, trespassing, or vandalism. We will get public support for this one.
Quote from: elk on April 14, 2005, 07:56 AM NHFT
I like the Postal Service idea; here's why.
In my neighborhood we had been leaving flyers in neighbors mailboxes telling of events and parties and distributing phone lists. We came to find out that when this was discoverd by the USPS mail carrier they were removed and discarded, and a note was left saying that it was illegal for anyone but the USPS to leave anything in the mailbox because it is FEDERAL PROPERTY! Did you get that? The mailboxes we buy and pay to install on our property? belong to the Feds! I haven't investigated this claim so I don't know if they are correct, but, it certainly ticks me off!
My $0.02
Ed
From Wikipedia:
In the 1840's Lysander Spooner started the commercially successful American Letter Mail Company which competed with the United States Post Office by providing lower rates. He was successfully challenged by the U.S. government and exhausted his resources trying to defend what he believed to be his right to compete.
A very good, short history of Spooner's fight with the USPS which resulted in the total ban on private mail delivery:
Lysander Spooner vs. U.S. Postal System
http://www.lysanderspooner.org/STAMP3.htm
Okay, I really think this mail delivery thing can work. I'm still looking for the exact law now, but there is a proven history of harsh government response to private mail delivery.
One boy in Rochester, NY was threatened with imprisonment if he continued his venture of mailing Christmas cards for $0.10 each.
This is definitely going to work to our advantage. I think we should go with this or the licensing idea and get going ASAP.
I'll start a poll...
I've found the exact laws in the "Postal Code of 1872" that created the monopoly. These are the laws we would be violating. I'm not sure where these laws are at in the US Code, but this is where I found them.
http://www.jcampbell.com/Reference/us/187206_code.pdf
SEC. 200. That all the waters of the United States shall be post-roads during the time the mail is carried thereon, as provided in section two hundred and nineteen.
SEC. 201. That all railways and parts of railways which are now or hereafter may be put in operation are hereby declared to be post-roads.
SEC. 202. That all canals during the time the mail is carried thereon are hereby declared to be post-roads.
SEC. 203. That all plank-roads during the times the mail is carried thereon are hereby declared to be post-roads.
SEC. 205. That all letter carrier routes established in any city or town, for the collection and delivery of mail-matter by carriers, are hereby declared to be post-roads.
(Declaring everything a "post-road" was a trick used to eliminate private mail delivery. See Sec. 228.)
SEC. 227. That any person concerned in carrying the mail, who shall collect, receive, or carry any letter or packet, or cause or procure the same to be done, contrary to law, shall, on conviction thereof, for every such offence, forfeit and pay not exceeding fifty dollars.
SEC. 228. That no person shall establish any private express for the conveyance of letters or packets or in any manner cause or provide for the conveyance of the same by regular trips or at stated periods, over any post-route which is or may be established by law, or from any city, town or place to any other city, town or place between which the mail is regularly carried; and every person so offending, or aiding or assisting therein, shall for each offence, forfeit and pay one hundred and fifty dollars.
SEC. 229. That the owner of every stage-coach, railway car, steamboat or other vehicle or vessel, which shall, with the knowledge of any owner in whole or in part, or with the knowledge or connivance of the driver, conductor, master or other person having charge of the same, convey any such person acting or employed as a private express for the conveyance of letters or packets and actually in possession of the same for the purpose of conveying them contrary to the spirit, true intent, and meaning of this law shall, for every such offence, forfeit and pay one hundred and fifty dollars.
SEC. 230. That no person shall transmit by private express or other unlawful means, or deliver to any agent of such unlawful express, or deposit, or cause to be deposited, at any appointed place, for the purpose of being transmitted, any letter or packet, and for every such offence the party so offending shall forfeit and pay fifty dollars.
That's pretty clear if you ask me.
Then how does UPS, Fedex, etc. get away with it?
Ed
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 14, 2005, 09:21 AM NHFT
I've found the exact laws in the "Postal Code of 1872" that created the monopoly. These are the laws we would be violating. I'm not sure where these laws are at in the US Code, but this is where I found them.
SEC. 228. That no person shall establish any private express for the conveyance of letters or packets or in any manner cause or provide for the conveyance of the same by regular trips or at stated periods, over any post-route which is or may be established by law, or from any city, town or place to any other city, town or place between which the mail is regularly carried; and every person so offending, or aiding or assisting therein, shall for each offence, forfeit and pay one hundred and fifty dollars.
That's pretty clear if you ask me.
Quote from: elk on April 14, 2005, 09:31 AM NHFT
Then how does UPS, Fedex, etc. get away with it?
Ed
They do not deliver letters. The USPS holds a monopoly on first-class letters and third-class junk mail.
I very much like the letter delivery services.
It is risky of course. If it ends in litigation, those involved risk losing their shirts.
On the other hand, there may a good chance of winning the case on 10th amendment grounds if the service delivers only within New Hampshire, and complies with all New Hampshire law. Understanding the relevent case law would be in order.
Something else to consider... if this is just a couple of guys transporting letters between Manchester and Concord as a stunt, I don't think it will get any attention. Need to turn this into a business. There is opportunity for in-state delivery. Bills, for example, I send at least half a dozen to New Hampshire addresses every month, and a significant percentage of letters I receive are also from New Hampshire addresses. Multiply by 400,000 households. That's the market. Win the case, and franchise to all 50 states. :)
Maybe you could get the private carriers to fund the lawsuit...
But the law mentions "packet" which is just another way of saying package.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 14, 2005, 09:32 AM NHFT
Quote from: elk on April 14, 2005, 09:31 AM NHFT
Then how does UPS, Fedex, etc. get away with it?
Ed
They do not deliver letters. The USPS holds a monopoly on first-class letters and third-class junk mail.
This is not about lawsuits or court battles.? This is about causing the government to react in a way that makes us suffer and which shows the government's unjust brutality.? This forces the government to change its own laws.
We cannot win in court.? Federal mail delivery is in the US Constitution, so we cannot win on any grounds.? Everyone who has tried has failed.
Mail delivery is in the US Constitution, so the US Constitution is wrong.? Do not take the side of the Constitution or we will be torn apart and fail.
Plead guilty to all charges.? Refuse to pay bail.? Anything else is a dishonest way out of our suffering, but we must remember that we are suffering on purpose.
Civil disobedience is a way of creating change by NOT cooperating with the law.
Well, as the article you posted stated, mail delivery is in the constitution, but it does not grant a monopoly. The monopoly is in statute, and Congress has no such jursidiction inside the sovereign state of New Hampshire.
Anyway, I doubt they'll come and arrest you for delivering a few pieces of paper. Go with the the shampoo shop. Its easy to do and easy to advertise. Plus, you will be able to get local press.
If the goal is to force the bad guys to play their hand, you have to make them mad. You have to violate "their" turf in a meaningful way. If you want to get arrested, go to your local post office and exercise your right to free speech on post office property. Maybe do that April 15. If you do that in Manchester tomorrow, you WILL be arrested.
This is not about being arrested alone. Plenty of anti-war protestors and anti-tax protestors are arrested for various reasons, but do you know any of their names? Have their actions created any effect? Probably not.
It's about harmlessly violating an unjust law to cause a reaction, such as an arrest, that makes the public side with you instead of the government.
I'll be honest with you right now. The only defense I will give is a defense of my principles. The constitution alllows the government to create a postal service, therefore it is wrong, regardless of whether it grants a monopoly. I will not, in my own defense, use the constitution or any law that recognizes my right to do what I ought to be free to do.
There are several examples where the federal government has strongly defended "their" mailboxes and "their right" to be the sole mail-delivery service. They WILL react. We are in complete control, and we will make sure that they react.
If they do not react, which happened with Gandhi's resistance in which he walked to the sea to create salt, then we will follow his example and continue to violate the law until they do react, and they WILL.
I like the mail idea....and I like the refusing to take $s
The mail idea is simplier. I think. :)
LOL!
Maybe we should get Shorty arrested by homeland security.
Take Dog for a walk in Gorham, where dogs are prohibited at all times from all areas of the town common.
Kevin
I heard Shorty was against National ID's and phone call monitoring.
Ken had a better idea today for the alcohol sales idea.
Idea:
-Publicly sell hard liquor to adults over 21. Violation of New Hampshire law.
Risk: High
New Hampshire runs a statewide monopoly on liquor sales in order to raise millions of dollars in funds for the state. We can challenge this law and defeat it. We may wish to obtain a license to sell alcohol because we are not challenging that particular law, we are directly challenging New Hampshire's monopoly on the retail sales of hard liquor.
I personally think this is a MUCH better idea to start with than selling alcohol to adults 18-20 years old. We can do that one a little later and we'll receive a lot of support from college students.
I way favor doing the shampoo thing first, and the letter thing later when we have more troops. I would do civil disobedience of the shampoo type probably but would not do the more serious mail "crime" at present. I suspect you'll get more participants on the shampoo since the risk is smaller.
Also shampoo is more visual.
Dada, that's GREAT!? That makes two of us for the civil resistance against licensing!
I have some MORE great news too.
At the Seacoast Porcupines meeting today, I announced these civil disobedience ideas and talked about how the licensing idea is the first one we're going to do.? Everyone was VERY, VERY supportive of the idea!? They were even EXCITED about it!!!? Many people said they'd help us out by bringing more people, contacting the media, and more.
Now I need to gather the contact information of everyone who wants to be involved with this civil resistance or help out in any way.
Please send your contact info to me at: MikeF@LSFund.org
This is going to be great!
This IS happening!
Saturday, May 7, 2005, at noon at the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301
The Board of Cosmetology's hours are 8 am to 4 pm Monday through Friday. Should we do this during their business hours instead, or would it be harder to find people that will show up for it?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 17, 2005, 12:00 AM NHFT
This IS happening!
Saturday, May 7, 2005, at noon at the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301
The Board of Cosmetology's hours are 8 am to 4 pm Monday through Friday. Should we do this during their business hours instead, or would it be harder to find people that will show up for it?
Great project, and a great location!
I think it absolutely has to be during their hours of business. Otherwise, there's no conflict, thus no reason for the press to show up. An underground project really doesn't count for much if only FSPers show up, take pics of themselves, and post them on FSP sites. There has to be some engagement of the opposite side, preferably with manjor news coverage.
$0.02,
Kevin
I wish it could be during "business" hours, but we get so many more participants on Saturdays.
If you lock in this event now.....you can let people start planning.
So what are you going to do at the event?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 16, 2005, 05:04 PM NHFT
-Publicly sell hard liquor to adults over 21.? Violation of New Hampshire law.
New Hampshire runs a statewide monopoly on liquor sales in order to raise millions of dollars in funds for the state.? We can challenge this law and defeat it.? We may wish to obtain a license to sell alcohol because we are not challenging that particular law, we are directly challenging New Hampshire's monopoly on the retail sales of hard liquor.
I personally think this is a MUCH better idea to start with than selling alcohol to adults 18-20 years old.? We can do that one a little later and we'll receive a lot of support from college students.
I also like this idea. Why would we want a license to sell alcohol? Why not go against the whole system?
As soon as you decide on the day and time you can link it to the calendar for all to see.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 16, 2005, 04:12 PM NHFT
I heard Shorty was against National ID's and phone call monitoring.
Shorty never even bothered to get a driver's license. ;)
Quote from: wholetthedogin? on April 16, 2005, 06:45 AM NHFT
Deliver the letter an "IRS extension" for Shorty Dawkins (RIP) while streaking to the local P.O. for contributions to the get out of jail fund.
Shorty had an extension "ladder" out behind his house. Don't think it was an IRS brand though. ;D
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 05:35 AM NHFT
I wish it could be during "business" hours, but we get so many more participants on Saturdays.
If you lock in this event now.....you can let people start planning.
Okay, okay... how about the following Monday?
Monday, May 9, 2005, at noon at the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH? 03301We may get less people, but we NEED the Board of Cosmetology to be there, we need to be arrested for this to work, and the press should definitely be there on a Monday as opposed to a Saturday.
If they try to ignore us and we are not arrested on Monday, then I'll come back every single day until they do arrest me.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 05:35 AM NHFT
So what are you going to do at the event?
My wife is going to try to teach me how to do manicures within the next three weeks.? Massages and haircuts are easy.? Ken said he'd let me cut his hair.? All I have to do is use a shaver for him because he has really short hair.? I'll need a battery-powered grooming shaver or a portable battery for our current grooming shaver.? My wife was a dog groomer and already has all the necessary equipment for this, but I'll check to make sure it's "safe" for use on humans, even though I use it all the time on my face.? Anyone can get a massage - I'll go easy on them.? ?;D I can also wash and shampoo hair because that's the most ridiculous law and it's really easy to do.
We have to charge for these services, otherwise it's not illegal.
And above all we have to take ALL necessary safety precautions.
If I am not busy that day....maybe I can be a paying customer. :)
Maybe someone will have to file a complaint with the NH Board of Cosmotology about what is going on outside. ;)
Will you except FRN$ ? .... or do we pay in silver? ;D
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 16, 2005, 11:38 PM NHFT
At the Seacoast Porcupines meeting today, I announced these civil disobedience ideas and talked about how the licensing idea is the first one we're going to do. Everyone was VERY, VERY supportive of the idea! They were even EXCITED about it!!! Many people said they'd help us out by bringing more people, contacting the media, and more.
Mike, I was there, and I wouldn't describe _everyone_ as "very very"supportive.... You heard a lot of concern about the risk, and support in terms of helping _you_ as you described. Someone reading the 'very very' might think that others said "Great idea, I'll do it too', which is not what happened. You have a lot of people who are willing to see _you_ do this, it's your risk. I'm fine with civil disobedience, if you are making your point clearly and it's a way to demonstrate the problem.
Let's be realistic, first and foremost. Unless you have lots of press, make your complaint about licensing crystal clear (which is hard to do with the press/media so soundbyte focused these days), and real attention from the powers that be, you are lighting yourself on fire (ala buddhist monks) with little payback in the long run....
I remain concerned that far too many of the activists on this forum are too focused on 'theatre' tactics, and miss the fact that NH has some of the most open politics and access in the world, and 'theatre' isn't needed to get access to the right people. In other states, you have no access, so theatre is the only way to gain attention... that's just not true in NH. Theatre has a place... don't get me wrong... I'm not saying 'no theatre', but what I see is "theatre first because theatre's 'fun', who wants that boring politics crap?"...
Sorry to seem to be throwing any cold water here, but I'm seeing the same pattern here as elsewhere on this forum: little attention to what moves a question/issue forward (in the real world of NH) and lots of focus on "We'll show them!" Somebody pointing that out, even if it's ignored, is important to me. I'm sure the same folks as usual will scorn that advice, but at least it's been said.
I don't think you can put out the flame of Mike's passion with your cold water. :)
I want radical change...now!
Our open accessible political system in NH has led to minimum wages, licensing barbers, property taxes, zoning......
I want this system to leave people alone to work, build and live as they see fit.
NH is better than other places in the US, but our system of coercion is unacceptable. >:(
There is a place for all kinds of activism. It has pretty much been decided that a coordinated effort for FSP movers would be suicide. Yes, we may be less efficient this way, but there are definite benefits from the theatrics.
I think our biggest challenge in NH is the populace, not the politics. As I said at the tax protest, we may not reduce taxes by protesting but we are sowing the seeds of freedom in a very fertile ground. It takes lots of exposure to get across the need for more freedom not less. Millions and millions of exposures.
Lets keep it up.
Cathleen
I'm an inclusive Porc. I believe in political and non-political methods of getting things done. I'm willing to bet that no large percentage of people who signed the SOI, plan to be involved in politics in NH, not even the LP, muchless, with non-Rino republicans.
Our 'Theater Tactics' in Hampton and the Flag Burning in Keene and to some extent, Freeing JP from Mass., has gotten us more attention than studying proposed legislation and, even, speaking, as individuals, at the statehouse.
Furthermore, I think civil disobedience works best when the laws are broken, enmass, by a large number of people, at the same time. This draws Press attention and make it difficult for the police to perform arrests.
But, if you can't get one crowd to shampoo another crowd in a parking lot, then, I'm all for Mike and Russell and not me to get arrested.
I agree with Cathleen's comments completely.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 17, 2005, 03:24 PM NHFT
I'm an inclusive Porc. I believe in political and non-political methods of getting things done. I'm willing to bet that no large percentage of people who signed the SOI, plan to be involved in politics in NH, not even the LP, muchless, with non-Rino republicans.
Then the percentage of people who would aren't going to be as effective as they could be. That's my major point. I'm not saying 'only' politics, ok?
Quote
Our 'Theater Tactics' in Hampton and the Flag Burning in Keene and to some extent, Freeing JP from Mass., has gotten us more attention than studying proposed legislation and, even, speaking, as individuals, at the statehouse.
Good examples.
I see Hampton as a win-win (hard to be on the wrong of side of helping old people against big bad zoning)
I see Freeing JP as a PR stunt: no real reality to it, so it's pure PR value only.
I see the Flag Burning (for a variety of reasons) as an example of the sort of 'potential backfire' (so to speak) that could happen (but didn't happen with the Flag Burning, this time, thank god, and knock on wood in the future.)
So out of the 3, only one of those has a 'negative aspect'... Civic Disobedience can, as you pointed out, enmass, be a very different thing from just one or two people doing it... I realize that the people least likely to listen here are the ones most likely to be the ones involved, I realize that.... probably shouting into the winds and going unheard...
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 11:03 AM NHFT
I don't think you can put out the flame of Mike's passion with your cold water. :)
Not in the least bit!
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 11:03 AM NHFT
I want radical change...now!
Our open accessible political system in NH has led to minimum wages, licensing barbers, property taxes, zoning......
I want this system to leave people alone to work, build and live as they see fit.
NH is better than other places in the US, but our system of coercion is unacceptable. >:(
Exactly.
Seth, most people at the meeting were very supportive of the idea, and several expressed the will to help organize.? Some were confused about the risks or what civil disobedience is, and some thought that we should try to mix the civil disobedience ideas together, which is a bad idea, but that can be expected.
Maybe later on, we can have more people participate in the actual disobedience aspect.? For now, that is not necessary.? We can start with one person, myself, and go from there.? I'm willing to take the risk in order to see the great return that is possible from it.? All I need is some support.
All this talk about the game of politics, and the view that the end justifies the means, is of no interest to me.? Sorry if this offends you, but my principles do not accept the existence of government, nor do they accept playing the corrupt and utterly disgusting game of politics, regardless of the end that is used to justify it.
We can take positive, peaceful, non-violent, non-cooperative action to make great changes in the name of freedom.? This is a legitimate method of change!
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 10:27 AM NHFT
If I am not busy that day....maybe I can be a paying customer. :)
Maybe someone will have to file a complaint with the NH Board of Cosmotology about what is going on outside. ;)
Alright, then I guess it's Dada and myself that will be arrested. :)
We should definitely have someone file a formal complaint to the BoC during the civil disobedience! That's a brilliant idea!
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 10:29 AM NHFT
Will you except FRN$ ? .... or do we pay in silver? ;D
Yeah, we'll accept Federal Reserve Notes... for now. ;) We don't want to mix ideas together or people will be confused!
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 05:55 AM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 16, 2005, 05:04 PM NHFT
-Publicly sell hard liquor to adults over 21.? Violation of New Hampshire law.
New Hampshire runs a statewide monopoly on liquor sales in order to raise millions of dollars in funds for the state.? We can challenge this law and defeat it.? We may wish to obtain a license to sell alcohol because we are not challenging that particular law, we are directly challenging New Hampshire's monopoly on the retail sales of hard liquor.
I personally think this is a MUCH better idea to start with than selling alcohol to adults 18-20 years old.? We can do that one a little later and we'll receive a lot of support from college students.
I also like this idea. Why would we want a license to sell alcohol? Why not go against the whole system?
Hmmm... good point. Would it be better to challenge the entire idea of alcohol as a controlled substance? That is what it would mean to have no license to sell alcohol.
Or would it be better to only challenge the idea of New Hampshire's monopoly on liquor? I'm still leaning toward challenging only the liquor monopoly AT FIRST. Later, maybe if successful fightning against the monopoly, we could probably challenge the entire system. Or maybe we should just challenge the whole thing to begin with.
I don't know... there's no written rule that you have to challenge one thing at a time. I'm really not sure. I'm new to this stuff. What do you think?
I was not questioning your one thing at a time idea.....I just like changing the whole idea at once....it is more exciting. :)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 12, 2005, 10:04 AM NHFT
Okay.? I've spent time looking through the actual US Code, but cannot find the exact law prohibiting private mail carriers.
Can anyone verify that this is illegal by citing the exact law?? Does anyone know of any cases where private mail carriers have been shut down?
Publication 542 (PDF) (http://www.google.com/url?sa=U&start=1&q=http://www.nalc.org/depart/cau/pdf/manuals/pub542.pdf&e=9799) - Understanding the
Public (oops) Private Express Statutes is a PDF document explaining the postal monopoly and when it can be suspended.
Also, found while researching this:
39 USC 401(9) (http://frwebgate.access.gpo.gov/cgi-bin/getdoc.cgi?dbname=browse_usc&docid=Cite:+39USC401) Eminent Domain by the USPS
The Postal Service shall have the following general powers:
(9) to exercise, in the name of the United States, the right of
? ? eminent domain for the furtherance of its official purposes; ...
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 17, 2005, 04:22 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 17, 2005, 10:27 AM NHFT
If I am not busy that day....maybe I can be a paying customer. :)
Maybe someone will have to file a complaint with the NH Board of Cosmotology about what is going on outside. ;)
Alright, then I guess it's Dada and myself that will be arrested.? :)
We should definitely have someone file a formal complaint to the BoC during the civil disobedience!? That's a brilliant idea!
Hey! Whats this crap? I thought Russell was in a hurry to get arrested, Too! :D
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 17, 2005, 08:49 PM NHFT
Hey!? Whats this crap?? I thought Russell was in a hurry to get arrested, Too! :D
I think this idea really isn't his thing.? ?;D
After this one works out well, the next ones will be more extreme and hopefully he'll like those ideas better and want to join in!
I think Russell said he likes the mail idea and the alcohol sales idea.? One of those must be next.? I'm leaning toward mail.? The USPS' monopoly on first and third class mail is a house of cards.? Underneath it all, it has a very fragile base - one paragraph written in "postal code" in 1872.? We can and will eliminate their monopoly on mail.? It's only a matter of time now that we've figured out how we can fight them.? ;)
I tend to favor doing it on a saturday for turnout purposes, but I could be wrong.
Oh another advantage is they would have trouble getting ahold of bureaucrats to speak up for the other side of the story.
If we could get decent numbers it realliy would be cool in biz hours tho....
Despite what Mr. Cohn has to say, I think you guys are doing an awesome job. The political players in NH are doing virtually nothing visible (that I'm aware of) to promote Liberty in NH. You guys are.
We're watching... this is exciting!
Ian
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 18, 2005, 12:39 AM NHFT
Despite what Mr. Cohn has to say, I think you guys are doing an awesome job. The political players in NH are doing virtually nothing (that I'm aware of) to promote Liberty in NH. You guys are.
I think the generalcourt.org website that Karl put up, and the bill reading have been very useful. I would have had a hard time keeping track of bills without the general court site. And I think Dawn Lincoln has been like some sort of political dynamo with her homeschool bill, and getting elected.
Thanks for the appreciation, though, Ian :)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 17, 2005, 09:24 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 17, 2005, 08:49 PM NHFT
Hey!? Whats this crap?? I thought Russell was in a hurry to get arrested, Too! :D
I think this idea really isn't his thing.? ?;D
After this one works out well, the next ones will be more extreme and hopefully he'll like those ideas better and want to join in!
Mike knows me so well.....it is because we think so alike :)
I can see going to jail to say......stop Myrtle from being kicked out of her home. I wouldn't make a good manicurist anyways. :-\
But I would like to help you with this one also. :) BTW I forget.....exactly how is your wife effected by these silly NH rules as of now? That might add a personal touch to the situation...not just theoretical. :)
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 18, 2005, 12:39 AM NHFT
Despite what Mr. Cohn has to say, I think you guys are doing an awesome job.? The political players in NH are doing virtually nothing (that I'm aware of) to promote Liberty in NH.? You guys are.
We're watching...? this is exciting!
Ian
I'm going to disagree with "The political players in NH are doing virtually nothing" I've been listening to free talk live for a couple of weeks now. Several of the NH callers seem to think the same, that the FSP is making all of the difference here. I'm detecting an undercurrent that if it were not for the FSP there would be no hope for us poor liberty deprived residents ofthe granite state.
There are people who have been working on the liberty side for a long time. I don't think the attitude that now that the FSP is here you are going to fix everything that NH broke is going to help out your cause a whole lot.
I think Ian was talking about the political players that moved with the FSP. One of the reasons the FSP picked NH was because the political players here have been doing such a good job maintaining freedom.
Hey we like to toot our own horn :-[
Quote from: katdillon on April 18, 2005, 06:28 AM NHFT
I think Ian was talking about the political players that moved with the FSP.? One of the reasons the FSP picked NH was because the political players here have been doing such a good job maintaining freedom.
I guess I missunderstood.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 18, 2005, 06:01 AM NHFT
Mike knows me so well.....it is because we think so alike :)
I can see going to jail to say......stop Myrtle from being kicked out of her home. I wouldn't make a good manicurist anyways. :-\
But I would like to help you with this one also. :) BTW I forget.....exactly how is your wife effected by these silly NH rules as of now? That might add a personal touch to the situation...not just theoretical. :)
I think the story of what happened to my wife is only a small example of how most people are treated, and that's what I'm going on.
However, there is also the issue of renewing her license now because it has been a year. ::) Of course they want more money for that. The Board also carries out regular inspections at workplaces to make sure people are doing what they're supposed to do. This is tolerated because nobody knows how to fight against it, and it benefits the big companies at the expense of the individual entrepreneurs.
Now the Board of Cosmetology is regulating all tanning beds. I have 3 customers that this affects. They've banned all people under 18 from tanning without an adult's permission, and all under 14 are totally banned from tanning without a doctor's excuse.
Once again, they trample all over the concept of personal responsibility for children. No wonder children grow up with no concept of it. :(
It's time to fight back. Let's give it everything we've got!
Regarding the issue of a Saturday or a Monday, I do not know if we can get enough people for a Monday. If we contact spas in Concord about this and tell them it is their option to file a complaint in advance to prevent us from getting away with this, then perhaps the reaction will be more severe. Also, the more effective we are in dealing with the media, the better off we'll be in every way.
I'm going to try to contact the person who wrote the Boston Globe story that I was mentioned in. Anyone have contacts at the Union Leader? I may have a contact at Foster's as well.
I'm sorry if I wasn't clear. I know the political groups are doing things, websites are good, and opposing bad legislation is good too, but I meant the Underground's activities are VISIBLE to the general public and the media. That's really important.
I don't think I suggested that the FSP is responsible. I know many Underground members are original NH residents. That said, without the FSP, there would be no Underground.
Seriously, when was the last time the NHLP did some civil disobedience?
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 18, 2005, 12:39 AM NHFT
The political players in NH are doing virtually nothing visible (that I'm aware of) to promote Liberty in NH.
Just because it's not visible (by design in many cases) don't think it's not happening. Others already listed some visible bits, and there are more I could list, like HB406, Red Light camera bill massively losing, and others. The NHLA Report card will be out this week... and will likely get lots of press.
I'll repeat what I told you on FTL, Ian: premature publicity is dangerous, if only because it wakes resistance.
Bad PR (such as Grafton's FreeTown mess) is the problem.... I'm all for good PR (Hampton) and completely against potentially bad PR... Where we tend to argue is what is bad PR.
I guess some of us are going to have to crank up the civil disobedience to make up for the small amount of people who are signing up for the FSP. ;D
I don't know about you guys, but I am encouraged whenever I see someone sign up for the FSP even if it is only 8-15 per week. :)
All publicity is good publicity! ;D
Quote from: president on April 18, 2005, 11:41 AM NHFT
Some people won't agree with you.....so what?
When you try to hide things because you think they will cause "bad PR"....you start to look like a slimey mother fucker.
This is one reason why I despise politics. If change is not happening very openly, then when it is exposed, the public may greatly resent it. Secret schemes ARE slimy. Most politics nowadays is the practice of secretly scheming in order to reach a noble goal. In other words, the end justifies the means. Machiavellianism is the basis of all government.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 18, 2005, 06:01 AM NHFT
BTW I forget.....exactly how is your wife effected by these silly NH rules as of now? That might add a personal touch to the situation...not just theoretical. :)
I told you her story, but let's keep that to ourselves.? I do not want her name or history with the Board of Cosmetology mentioned in the press.? She is currently employed in this field and that is far too big of a risk to take.
Besides, my quarrel is with no individual or group of people, not even those running the Board of Cosmetology. They are not my enemies - they are only human beings trying to make a living that are employed in a position that I disagree with.
I am only fighting against the law, and will treat all police, bureaucrats, and politicians the way I would like to be treated.
Quote from: president on April 18, 2005, 11:29 AM NHFT
Who are the Anti-FSP forces?
Gee... You'd know better than me... after all, you're one of them. And don't bother replying and protesting about how you aren't. You've done more postings and websites against the FSP than anyone else I can name. Nice to know you continue to visit the FSP forums too... not that we really thought you'd gone away. Anyone who questions what BAD PR can do, just watch Mr. "Grafton Fisher" and imagine having a few dozen people like him around.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 17, 2005, 09:31 PM NHFT
I tend to favor doing it on a saturday for turnout purposes, but I could be wrong.
Oh another advantage is they would have trouble getting ahold of bureaucrats to speak up for the other side of the story.
If we could get decent numbers it realliy would be cool in biz hours tho....
We've gotta make up our mind right now. No time left to waste!
Still don't know our work schedule. I would love to be there. Mondays are usually better than Saturdays.
Cathleen
Quote from: president on April 18, 2005, 01:08 PM NHFT
He seem to be the only one that calls me "Grafton Fisher" on a regular basis.
http://www.savenewhampshire.org which is your listed website, fool. You call yourself 'Grafton Fisher'.
<<I don't think the attitude that now that the FSP is here you are going to fix everything that NH broke is going to help out your cause a whole lot.>>
agreed. Virtually all the things that are good about New Hampshire were good before any of us got here. good idea to stay humble and mostly be reinforcements for the folks who have done a good job keeping NH in better shape than the rest of the nation.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 18, 2005, 09:40 AM NHFT
Seriously, when was the last time the NHLP did some civil disobedience?
Not their job.
Has it been determined precisely what you will be doing in front of the bureaucrat building? Giving shampoos? Could use some more who what where when why how once you have it so I can put together some Letters to the Editor announcing the protest.
?I am only fighting against the law?
Yes, so am I, but more specifically not just any law. It is illegal and unconstitutional ?legislation? that I am fighting in the name of freedom from such legislation.
In America, the Republic, Americans have the Supreme Law (Constitution) of the land on their side. The hold back is Americans are obligated to enforce that Supreme Law and they are not doing that.
In constitutional America the only citizens? protest with force behind it against freedom robbing legislation is the proper use of the ballot box for the election of public Officials. Citizens cannot enact or repeal federal legislation; only Congress critters can do that. As long as citizens continue to ?reelect? known criminals to public offices, particularly to the House of Congress every two years, America will have a criminal freedom nullifying government. Known criminals are those in public office that have dishonored their Oath of Office, quit reelecting them.
Allan
I don't think we'll be arrested unless this is done on Monday. ?We need to do what we can to guarantee an immediate reaction. ?I'll do everything in my power to bring as many people as I can to the event but I really need help with publicity otherwise the media will not pay attention to our arrests.
It's probably a good idea to announce it as a civil disobedience. ?We are fighting against these laws because they have destroyed our freedom to make a living without government approval.
Please feel free to bring your friends, family, anti-licensing signs, cameras, and a positive attitude! ?:)
When: ?Monday, May 9, at 12:00pm (noon).? We will preferably begin services when the police arrive.
Where: ?NH Board of Cosmetology. ?2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH ?03301
What: ?Haircuts, massages, and manicures. ?Shampoos if possible, but we will need a source of warm water and a way to drain used water.? We will be accepting cash payment, with tips, for these services.? Free services do not violate the law.
Directions to the Board of Cosmetology:
FROM THE SEACOAST
VIA RTE 4,9,202
AFTER THE WEATHERVANE RESTAURANT, THE ROAD SPLITS- RTE 4 IS TO THE RIGHT WITH 393, RTE 9 IS STRAIGHT AHEAD. ?STAY STRAIGHT ON ROUTE 9 OVERHEAD SIGN SAYS CONCORD BUSINESS DISTRICT, CONCORD HEIGHTS
AT LIGHTS, TAKE A LEFT ONTO RTE 106 SOUTH. ?AT THE 3RD SET OF LIGHTS TAKE A RIGHT ONTO PEMBROKE RD. ?TAKE THE SECOND LEFT DOWN BETWEEN TWO LONG INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS. ?WE ARE THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY DOWN ON THE RIGHT.
THERE IS A SIGN NEXT TO OUR DOOR.
OR
RTE 101 WEST TO MANCHESTER TO 93 NORTH
or 89 SOUTH to 93 NORTH
FROM 93 NORTH OR SOUTH
TAKE EXIT 15E THAT PUTS YOU ONTO 393E GO TO EXIT 3. AT THE END OF THE RAMP BEAR TO THE RIGHT. ?THAT PUTS YOU ONTO RTE 106S GO TO THE 4TH SET OF LIGHTS AND TAKE A RIGHT ONTO PEMBROKE RD. ?TAKE THE SECOND LEFT DOWN BETWEEN TWO LONG INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS. ?WE ARE THREE QUARTERS OF THE WAY DOWN ON THE RIGHT.
Allan, you're, pretty much preaching to the choir here, about, re-electing scum. ?Realistically this is no longer, Constitutional America, and, even if we increase the number of people who realize it by a factor of 10, it would make little difference at the voting booth.
Many of the ?'theatrical events' showing the absurdity of most of what the government does, could, get more voters on our side.
Trying to work within the confines of changing laws is OK for some, but, for many, is not enough.
Some of us will try to live our lives as if the government isn't there.
Lloyd
Better to start when the TV crews show up, that way they can get good footage of you performing the illegal acts, and then they can get the cops arresting you.
Idea:
-Unlicensed dog walk-a-thon.
Risk: ?unknown
Dog licensing is mandatory in New Hampshire from what I've seen, and each town's laws, fines, and fees are different. ?I'm not sure if each town has implemented their own law that all dogs must be licensed or if this is a statewide law.
This would ideally involve far more than only one or two people. ?The goal of the civil disobedience would be to show that the law requiring dog licensing is absurd, intrusive, and unnecessary. ?Responsible dog owners can vaccinate and take full responsibility for their pets without government regulations requiring them to do so.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 19, 2005, 09:27 AM NHFT
Better to start when the TV crews show up, that way they can get good footage of you performing the illegal acts, and then they can get the cops arresting you.
Good idea.
Also, I really need help to get a TV crew and other media there! Pleeease someone help me out on this!
You could send the TV station and newspapers a press release about what you're going to do. Dada's article helps:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-read_article.php?articleId=8
Okay, I've been telling a LOT of people about this.? Most people agree with the principle of it.? One person said they wish they had the courage to stand up to them.? I've been telling my customers, friends, business contacts, and everyone else I can think of.? It's amazing how well this is being received by non-libertarians.? One customer said this is going to open a lot of people's eyes.
Now I'm writing a letter to the NHLA's 2004 legislator of the year (Michael Harrington) because he spoke out against licensing laws at the NHLA dinner last year.
I'll try to put together a press release and preview it on here.? Dave, which papers are you going to write LTEs to?? I can do the others.? Or should we hit them twice?
Hit them twice, it doubles the chance you'll be published.
I had an idea: hand out FIJA material outside courthouses. It'd be pretty easy to get tossed in jail for it. I have a bunch of printed brochures still, courtesy of Scott.
Quote from: katdillon on April 19, 2005, 02:30 PM NHFT
I had an idea:? hand out FIJA material outside courthouses.? It'd be pretty easy to get tossed in jail for it.? I have a bunch of printed brochures still, courtesy of Scott.
Is that really illegal? If so, I would be amazed!
Here's my first attempt at a press release... ever. ;)
Draft Press Release for Anti-Licensing Civil Disobedience (http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/licensingpressrelease.doc)
People have been jailed for it, whether it's actually illegal or not. I believe they try and pass it off as jury tampering. Supposedly if you hand the brochures to people in the jury pool and not to an already selected jury, you're not doing anything illegal. I can check up on it again.
State Contacts -- FIJA (Heh, we know them already)
New Hampshire
Dick Marple
Phone: (603)627-1837
Fax: Same
E-Mail: armlaw(a)hotmail.com
Address: 11 Dartmouth St, Hooksett, NH 03106
Norman Bernier
26 South Main Street #135
Concord, NH 03301
603-848-0316
normanbernier(a)hotmail.com
Distributing FIJA Literature in Front of Courthouses
FIJA activists frequently stand on the public sidewalks near courthouses, or near the jurors? parking lot, and distribute FIJA brochures to all passersby. Some activists tell us that the best time to be there is when the whole jury pool is first assembled (often on Monday mornings; be there bright and early, 7:30 or 8:00 AM). At this time those summoned are not yet officially jurors, and the authorities are less likely to bother you. On the other hand, authorities sometimes confiscate brochures from prospective jurors as they enter the courthouse. For this reason, it has been suggested that a better time to distribute literature may be late in the afternoon, to catch people as they come out.
FIJA activists should make it clear that they are only passing out information of general interest to all citizens, and are not trying to influence any particular case. No case-specific literature should be distributed with FIJA literature to anyone who might be a prospective juror. FIJA literature, which informs jurors of their rights and powers in general terms and which seeks reform of the judicial process, is protected speech under the First Amendment. If other people present are passing out literature protesting the case or cases which happen to being going on inside, fine. It is their right to protest, and the sidewalk is a traditional public forum for First Amendment purposes. (U.S. v. Grace et al, 461 U.S., 1983)
Literature distribution is most effective if you dress neatly and conservatively, smile, and are polite. A FIJA button in your lapel would also be appropriate. It is not good to engage in long debates with anyone, while dozens of people walk by without receiving your material ? unless you have enough people to do it. Limit your interaction to a minute or less, and have a short, prepared delivery speech to use as you hand out literature.
Thousands of people have now distributed FIJA literature at courthouses, the vast majority without any trouble. Although a few people have been hassled, some even arrested, we have rarely had anyone convicted of anything for passing out FIJA brochures. One conviction was for disobeying a court injunction to cease literature distribution (this is being appealed at this time). (If you are facing contempt charges for violating an injunction, as things stand now, you do not get a trial by a jury of your peers; instead, a judge decides if you are ?guilty?, too often the same one who issued the injunction.) Another arrest and conviction was for refusing to cease literature distribution and leave the interior of a courthouse (also being appealed).
A handful of ?jury tampering? charges have been have been filed for simply passing out FIJA literature. Juries have so far refused to convict people so charged.
Usually when the authorities decide there is not much they can actually do to stop brochure distribution, they stumble over themselves in their haste to dismiss charges or otherwise back down. Perhaps they come to realize that prosecuting you for jury tampering will mean giving FIJA brochures to your jury as evidence... and they realize that distributing political/informational brochures in a public place is a clearly protected First Amendment right. In addition, prosecutions are liable to generate a great deal of local media interest and exposure for FIJA?s message ? and this is the last thing judges and prosecutors want!
You?re more likely to encounter trouble if you insist on distributing brochures inside the courthouse, but it has been done successfully. In any case, if the powers that be react at all, expect them to warn you first and ask that you leave. Some of our activists have refused to leave because they were trying to be arrested, but even so couldn?t induce an arrest. And some ?arresting authorities? are now facing civil suits brought by FIJA supporters.
However, let me emphasize that we are not offering legal advice in this manual. These are just things we have observed.
Handing out FIJA material at a courthouse would be a great Activist Project, but doesn't really qualify as civil disobedience.
I'll post the text of the press release here for people like me who are too lazy to click on a link.? ;)
Mike Fisher, 362 Lita Ln, Newmarket, NH? 03857
For Immediate Release
For further information, please contact:? Mike Fisher, 603-498-7935
Activists to Defy State Licensing Laws
Concord, NH, April 19, 2005 ? On Monday, May 9, at noon, activists plan to violate New Hampshire?s licensing laws at the State Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics in Concord. In an act of civil disobedience, the activists plan to sell haircuts, massages, and manicures for profit without obtaining licenses from the State government.
The purpose of this event is ?to call attention to the State?s intrusive, unnecessary, and ever-expanding restrictions on entry-level workers and entrepreneurs in many industries,? according to Mike Fisher, an activist heading up the effort through the NH Underground (NHFree.com). ?In a free country, people do not need permission to start a business. We are no longer free to make a living without government approval.?
According to State law, ?it shall be a misdemeanor for any person to engage in any practice regulated by [Chapter 313] without the appropriate license.? It is a misdemeanor in New Hampshire to start many types of service businesses without a license. In addition, these laws were recently expanded to include all tanning businesses.
The general public and supporters are invited to attend this event of civil disobedience. The event will be held on Monday, May 9, at noon, at or near the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301. Attendees are asked to bring their friends, families, cameras, anti-licensing signs, and positive attitudes.
# # #
Mike Fisher
603-498-7935
That sounds great, Mike! The only suggestion I have to is change the "two activists" to something like "activists", since you wont know for sure how many people you'll get to help.
Should we make a wiki page for this and link from the front page?
Quote from: russellkanning on April 19, 2005, 03:53 PM NHFT
Should we make a wiki page for this and link from the front page?
Absolutely!!! :)
How do I do that? Or can I not do that?
?Allan, you're, pretty much preaching to the choir here about, re-electing scum?
Are you sure? I am not so sure of that.
?Realistically this is no longer, Constitutional America,?
Yes, that is what I am talking about and mentioning the only way citizens can ?force? it to be fixed.
?even if we increase the number of people who realize it by a factor of 10, it would make little difference at the voting booth.?
Maybe so, but protesting carries no force with it and the ballot box does. Yes, citizens have the Right of Grievance (protest), which I support, but government officials are obligated only to listen to citizen?s protests. If protesting had any force then America would be a mobbed ruled democracy.
?Many of the 'theatrical events' showing the absurdity of most of what the government does, could, get more voters on our side.?
That is possible, but unless voters are told, and learn, why they elect public Officials theatrical events are all but worthless. Citizens are voting for public Officials for all the wrong reasons when there is only one reason to elect anyone to public office. Freedom never will be restored as long as citizens? vote on the political issues fed them by the enemy of freedom.
Americans have the best government (the government created by the Constitution) ever in history and to maintain it citizens are obligated to force Officials to honor their Oath of Office.
Allan
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 19, 2005, 02:44 PM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 19, 2005, 02:30 PM NHFT
I had an idea:? hand out FIJA material outside courthouses.? It'd be pretty easy to get tossed in jail for it.? I have a bunch of printed brochures still, courtesy of Scott.
Is that really illegal?? If so, I would be amazed!
"When, correctly viewed, and, your rights, mistrued, everything is
lewd" Ilegal.
My apologies to Tom Lerher.
Quote from: AllanHampton on April 19, 2005, 04:39 PM NHFT
Americans have the best government (the government created by the Constitution) ever in history and to maintain it citizens are obligated to force Officials to honor their Oath of Office.
Allan
All, but, lost
It will take a castastrophe to get remenants of it back.
If a 25% tax rate was Serfdom, what is an excess of 50%?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 19, 2005, 04:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 19, 2005, 03:53 PM NHFT
Should we make a wiki page for this and link from the front page?
Absolutely!!! :)
How do I do that?? Or can I not do that?
Just punch the edit button on the first page and see how it is done and do whatever you want. To make a new page use ((New Page)) and after you save.....click on the ? mark to start editing the new page. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on April 19, 2005, 07:02 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 19, 2005, 04:26 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 19, 2005, 03:53 PM NHFT
Should we make a wiki page for this and link from the front page?
Absolutely!!! :)
How do I do that?? Or can I not do that?
Just punch the edit button on the first page and see how it is done and do whatever you want. To make a new page use ((New Page)) and after you save.....click on the ? mark to start editing the new page. :)
Insert slot A into slot B rotate cam 180 degrees click your heels together and say there's no place like home..........
I spoke to a chief of police tonight and asked him about our upcoming act of civil disobedience. Other than trespassing, he said that we will probably not be committing an arrestable offense. When we protest in front of the Board's offices and someone asks us to leave, we can just move to the sidewalk. If not, we will be arrested for trespassing, and there would be no point to that.
However, the Board may have the ability to hold an emergency meeting and immediately give us a citation or a court summons, and in New Hampshire, citations do not need to be signed, and you are not arrested on the spot for refusing to sign or pay it. When the deadline runs out for paying the citation, or if you do not show up for a court summons, then I believe a warrant is issued for your arrest.
In the end, from what I've researched, I believe it's a Class B misdemeanor that we will be committing, and either we pay the fee or we go to jail for a few days. I'll opt for jail for myself. Dada can do whatever he wants. :)
I don't want to throw cold water on any plans . I'M not questioning anybodys committment, but have any of you been arrested before?
If the police are amused and like you . IT still is unpleasent.
If you have annoyed the police or they are jerks it can be very unplesent.
Be ready to feel powerless once thoose cuffs clank closed it is not fun anymore.
Just some advice.
If I thought going to jail would be fun, then why did I say repeatedly that suffering is necessary to create change?
Going to jail is not fun.? Suffering is necessary to light the fires of liberty.? I can FINALLY see a clear path for bringing problems into the spotlight in order to create public debate about them.
Civil disobedience is an exploit in the system that cannot be prevented.? It is the law's greatest weakness, for there is little you can do to redress a problem with the law once it's the law, except to find a sneaky, slimy way to get it changed without too many people paying attention.? And those methods of change are immoral.
If civil disobedience is a button, then nobody can stop you from pushing it but yourself.? The alternative to civil disobedience is to be a slave or a sneaky political scoundrel.
Thank you for the advice though.
Like I said not trying to cause a problem.
Just some friendly advice.
I will bake you a cake with a file in it if ya want ;)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 19, 2005, 10:25 PM NHFT
For there is little you can do to redress a problem with the law once it's the law, except to find a sneaky, slimy way to get it changed without too many people paying attention. And those methods of change are immoral.
Mike, while I know you believe the above, it's just not true. Our work with HB406 among other things shows that here in New Hampshire, you can make changes to the law by just saying "This law doesn't work, it's wrong, it helps nobody".
Yes, Law is not easy to change, and takes time and effort... but you can do it, and often the problem was nobody was paying attention in the first place...
I believe Civil Disobedience has a place, alongside practical reform attempts. Getting rid of licenses in one fell swoop is unlikely, whether by protest or political means... it'll take a mix of the two.
Some of those 'sneaky political scoundrels' in the NH State House agree with you, and would love some support in making those changes.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 19, 2005, 03:24 PM NHFT
I'll post the text of the press release here for people like me who are too lazy to click on a link.? ;)
Mike Fisher, 362 Lita Ln, Newmarket, NH? 03857
For Immediate Release
For further information, please contact:? Mike Fisher, 603-498-7935
Activists to Defy State Licensing Laws
Do you have any more changes or can this be posted?
Quote from: russellkanning on April 20, 2005, 07:08 AM NHFT
Do you have any more changes or can this be posted?
I made some final changes and it is ready to be posted.
You know what's funny? That chief of police agreed that some of our licensing laws are unnecessary.
It's up on the front page! I see it!
Thanks Russell! :)
you can tweak it any way you like....maybe one of your cool graphics or cartoons :)
Hey Mike ....are you a fire-breathing anarchist?
Maybe if we get Ward Griffiths with his kick-ass chili we can be fire-breathing in addition to being anarchists ;)
I just got off the phone with Dada and believe some changes must be made to this civil disobedence.
1.? We'll be doing manicures only. (easier, safer, cheaper than haircuts)
2.? The first event on May 9th is the main event, but I will continue running this business, every Monday at the same time and place, and perhaps more than once per week, until I receive a fine or court summons.? I will do this even if there are very few attendees.
My signs may read:
"I refuse to submit to licensing laws."
"I will never stop giving haircuts until you force me to stop."
3.? If necessary, we will call salons around the state about this illegal unlicensed haircut business until complaints are filed.
You might as well call the salons in advance. Maybe call as a concerned customer, and clue them in that you heard that someone is going to be "undercutting" their prices, and where and when.
I'm not going to do anything dishonest, but they'll eventually have to stop me, complaints or not.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 20, 2005, 07:59 PM NHFT
2. The first event on May 9th is the main event, but I will continue running this business, every Monday at the same time and place, and perhaps more than once per week, until I receive a fine or court summons. I will do this even if there are very few attendees.
Cool... I won't be able to make the May 9th event, but I'll have my hair cut :o (well more like ??? ) at one of the future events, assuming you aren't in handcuffs by then. Handcuffs and scissors are a bad mix...
Quote from: SethCohn on April 20, 2005, 08:23 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 20, 2005, 07:59 PM NHFT
2.? The first event on May 9th is the main event, but I will continue running this business, every Monday at the same time and place, and perhaps more than once per week, until I receive a fine or court summons.? I will do this even if there are very few attendees.
Cool... I won't be able to make the May 9th event, but I'll have my hair cut? :o (well more like? ??? ) at one of the future events, assuming you aren't in handcuffs by then.? Handcuffs and scissors are a bad mix...
Thank you very much, Seth! :)
Umm, one thing is going to change about this. I think manicures are much less dangerous than haircuts so that's all I'm going to do. Manicures are easier to do, easier to learn, safer, and cheaper!
Be careful not to inhale the vapors of the nail polish, or you may violate the drug laws! :D
I'm trying to edit the press release, but it's giving me this error when I try to login:? "You have to enable cookies to be able to login to this site."
???
Anyways, here's the new one.? Thanks for the help, Dada!
Mike Fisher, 362 Lita Ln, Newmarket, NH? 03857
For Immediate Release
For further information, please contact:? Mike Fisher, 603-498-7935
Activists to Defy State Licensing Laws
Concord, NH, April 19, 2005 ? On Monday, May 9, at noon, Mike Fisher plans to violate New Hampshire?s licensing laws at the State Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics in Concord. In an act of civil disobedience, he plans to sell manicures for profit without obtaining a license from the State government.
The purpose of this event is ?to call attention to the State?s intrusive and unnecessary licensing restrictions on entry-level workers and entrepreneurs in many industries,? according to Fisher, the activist heading up the effort through the NH Underground (NHFree.com). ?In a free country, people do not need permission to start a business. We are no longer free to make a living without government approval.?
It is a misdemeanor in New Hampshire to sell services such as manicures, haircuts, or massages without a license. These licensing laws were expanded in January to include all tanning businesses.
?In the famous Dandi March, Gandhi walked to the sea to create salt and was arrested along with 60,000 others for violating British colonial salt licensing laws,? Fisher proclaims. ?Gandhi?s example inspires me, and that?s why I?m doing this. This will open a lot of people?s eyes. It?s time to put an end to licensing laws once and for all.?
The general public and supporters are invited to attend this act of civil disobedience. The event will be held on Monday, May 9, at noon, at or near the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301. Attendees and customers are asked to bring friends, families, cameras, signs, and positive attitudes.
# # #
Mike Fisher, 603-498-7935
Nice release. Cameras good.
So...er...Mike. Have you cut anyone's hair before? Just wondering how funny Seth's going to look when you're done with him. :)
Quote from: katdillon on April 21, 2005, 05:32 AM NHFT
So...er...Mike. Have you cut anyone's hair before? Just wondering how funny Seth's going to look when you're done with him. :)
My hair is breathing a sigh of relief... but my fingernails are now worried about Mike's manicure skills.
Just a trim and a buffing, no nail polish please.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 20, 2005, 11:10 PM NHFT
I'm trying to edit the press release, but it's giving me this error when I try to login: "You have to enable cookies to be able to login to this site."
???
I put up your new release.
Do you have cookies shut off?
Quote from: SethCohn on April 21, 2005, 06:06 AM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 21, 2005, 05:32 AM NHFT
So...er...Mike.? Have you cut anyone's hair before?? Just wondering how funny Seth's going to look when you're done with him.? :)
My hair is breathing a sigh of relief... but my fingernails are now worried about Mike's manicure skills.
Just a trim and a buffing, no nail polish please.
Don't let him talk you into that Bamboo under the finger nails treatment.
The manicure idea is good...it is pretty insane that the STATE thinks it should regulate that activity.
After a while instead of Dada showing up as a "zombie" he could go for the "edward scizzorhands" look.
We could have scizzorhands t-shirts that say something like "Regulate this" or "Unlicensed"
Added some links to articles on the subject:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Activists+to+Defy+State+Licensing+Laws
By the way, anyone notice that it wasn't until I offered to get my hair cut that Mike changed plans to not do haircuts?
>:D Must be my hair that scared him off the idea. "Cut HIS hair? O MY GOD... they'd better arrest me quick."
:'( oh well.
You can't expect one would-be barber (MikeF) to be able to handle everything from Dada's shaved head to Seth's thick head of hair. :D
Working up customized release which folks may send out if they wish.
Protesters to defy NH haircut law - in front of its enforcers
Invoking the patron saint of civil disobedience, New Hampshire entrepreneur Mike Fisher plans to violate our state's licensing laws - right in front of the officials who enforce them.
Fisher, 22, of Neumarket, says he is so exasperated with regulations on small businesses that the time has come to force the state government's hand.
His plan is to set up a haircut booth right in front of the New Hampshire Board of Cosmetology, a bureacracy that regulates salons and barbershops. There, he says, he will administer haircuts - for profit - "until they force me to stop."
Fisher says he got the idea from watching the movie "Ghandi."
"The British government (In India) had salt licensing laws," he says. "You could not make salt without a license. Now we cannot cut hair without a license...and I really don't see the difference." In the case of India, the now-legendary Mahatma Ghandi fought back by making salt without a license, a "crime" for which he and others were arrested. The logic-challenged spectacle mobilized independence activists and drew attention to British misrule.
Fisher, a computer repairman, admits he doesn't know first thing about cutting hair. But he points out that anyone who *does* want to work as a barber would probably not be able to break the law as he is planning to. "They could lose their ability to get a license." he says.
It's the principle of the thing that bothers Fisher and a desire to see a rollback of state restrictions on most industries. ?In a free country," he growls "people do not need permission to start a business."
As in most states, it is a misdemeanor in New Hampshire to cut hair for profit without a license. In addition, such laws were recently expanded to include all tanning businesses. Many other industries also require licenses. Fisher believes these simply provide a barrier to entry for young entrepreneurs like himself, without protecting the consumer or the public. "Private institutions and competition are more effective protectors of the customer," he adds, "and these are both weakened when government tries to do the job."
The general public and supporters are invited to attend, join the fun and witness Fisher's act of civil disobedience. But you do not have to disobey the law yourself unless you wish to man the clippers! The event will be on Monday, May 9, at noon, at or near the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301.
Summary:
What: Civil disobedience of "haircut law"
Why: To call attention to state govt. overregulation of small business
How: By cutting hair without a license
Where: At or near the enforcing bureacracy: NH Board of Cosmetology, 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301
When: Monday, May 9, noon
Who: Activists from NHfree.com and whoever wants to join us. Expected turnout: 10-20
Contact: Mike Fisher, 603-498-7935 Backup: Dave Ridley 603-721-1490
Quote from: SethCohn on April 21, 2005, 06:06 AM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 21, 2005, 05:32 AM NHFT
So...er...Mike.? Have you cut anyone's hair before?? Just wondering how funny Seth's going to look when you're done with him.? :)
My hair is breathing a sigh of relief... but my fingernails are now worried about Mike's manicure skills.
Just a trim and a buffing, no nail polish please.
You want to get with the times! Nail Art! Little Porcupines on your nails.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on April 21, 2005, 04:36 PM NHFT
Quote from: SethCohn on April 21, 2005, 06:06 AM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 21, 2005, 05:32 AM NHFT
So...er...Mike.? Have you cut anyone's hair before?? Just wondering how funny Seth's going to look when you're done with him.? :)
My hair is breathing a sigh of relief... but my fingernails are now worried about Mike's manicure skills.
Just a trim and a buffing, no nail polish please.
You want to get with the times!? Nail Art!? Little Porcupines on your nails.
Hell yeah a miniture Gadson flag on your middlefinger.
Here is a link to an article that appeared in Reason Magazine about the revolution in Nails.
Virginia Postrel is my favorite libertarian in the whole world.
http://reason.com/9710/ed.vp.shtml
Quote from: president on April 21, 2005, 04:44 PM NHFT
You could have a lawn chair or some towels outside, and rent them as "tanning beds", and you have an instant tanning salon. Well, as long as it is sunny out. You should also give customers sun glasses, for safety. Wouldn't want them burning their eyes out.
I really love this idea....we could do this every day the sun is out. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on April 21, 2005, 05:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: president on April 21, 2005, 04:44 PM NHFT
You could have a lawn chair or some towels outside, and rent them as "tanning beds", and you have an instant tanning salon. Well, as long as it is sunny out. You should also give customers sun glasses, for safety. Wouldn't want them burning their eyes out.
I really love this idea....we could do this every day the sun is out. :)
Well I don't tan just burn .But I would be willing to sit in the shade, drink beer and tell folks when to turn over so they tan evenly.
Quote from: Pat K on April 21, 2005, 05:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 21, 2005, 05:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: president on April 21, 2005, 04:44 PM NHFT
You could have a lawn chair or some towels outside, and rent them as "tanning beds", and you have an instant tanning salon. Well, as long as it is sunny out. You should also give customers sun glasses, for safety. Wouldn't want them burning their eyes out.
I really love this idea....we could do this every day the sun is out. :)
Well I don't tan just burn .But I would be willing to sit in the shade, drink beer and tell folks when to turn over so they tan evenly.
Esp if they were females in Bikinis.
Quote from: Dreepa on April 21, 2005, 07:01 PM NHFT
Quote from: Pat K on April 21, 2005, 05:43 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on April 21, 2005, 05:08 PM NHFT
Quote from: president on April 21, 2005, 04:44 PM NHFT
You could have a lawn chair or some towels outside, and rent them as "tanning beds", and you have an instant tanning salon. Well, as long as it is sunny out. You should also give customers sun glasses, for safety. Wouldn't want them burning their eyes out.
I really love this idea....we could do this every day the sun is out. :)
Well I don't tan just burn .But I would be willing to sit in the shade, drink beer and tell folks when to turn over so they tan evenly.
Esp if they were females in Bikinis.
Or with out Bikinis ;D
Hey Pat,
If they didn't have bikinis on, how would you know it was bikinis they didn't have on? Conundrum #22
UM Who is on first?
*wonders how often girls in bikinis are spotted in NH*
She wore a teeny weenie Porcupine Bikini?
Quote from: Pat K on April 21, 2005, 10:26 PM NHFT
She wore a teeny weenie Porcupine Bikini?
I think its
"She wore an
Itsy bitsy teeny weenie Yellow Porcupine Bikin,
That she wore for the first time today"
tracy
Quote from: tracysaboe on April 21, 2005, 10:48 PM NHFT
Quote from: Pat K on April 21, 2005, 10:26 PM NHFT
She wore a teeny weenie Porcupine Bikini?
I think its
"She wore an
Itsy bitsy teeny weenie Yellow Porcupine Bikin,
That she wore for the first time today"
tracy
Yes thank you Tracy. ;D
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2005, 10:23 PM NHFT
*wonders how often girls in bikinis are spotted in NH*
Good lord...the boy's never been to Hampton Beach, has he?
Quote from: katdillon on April 22, 2005, 06:38 AM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 21, 2005, 10:23 PM NHFT
*wonders how often girls in bikinis are spotted in NH*
Good lord...the boy's never been to Hampton Beach, has he?
Maybe he was there in February.
Final edits have been added to my press release, and it's going out now. The primary change is that I will be the only person breaking the law. I misunderstood Dada and thought he would be doing this as well, but that's okay. It simplifies media coverage for them to focus on me as the outlaw.
My local business association was very supportive of this idea when I presented it last night at a meeting.? They immediately asked that I send them the press release and also an update in a few weeks from now to add to their newsletter coming out in June.? They said many businesses agree with the purpose of this civil disobedience, and they know many people who are being hurt by these regulations.
One also referred me to a reporter at the Exeter Newsletter that is her personal friend.
My wife taught me how to do manicures yesterday.? I'll have plenty of time to practice and study before the event.
This is going to be a success.? I really believe this is going to open people's eyes.
It should work out well.
You are making fun of a silly law, but the whole principle of government licensing individuals and businesses is huge.
If I make it to this event, I will definitely need to pay Mike $1 for a tanning session. :) I don't even have a note from a doctor.
Maybe Kira could do this also, she is only 13 so we could be breaking even more laws. 8)
Quote from: russellkanning on April 22, 2005, 11:18 AM NHFT
If I make it to this event, I will definitely need to pay Mike $1 for a tanning session. :) I don't even have a note from a doctor.
Maybe Kira could do this also, she is only 13 so we could be breaking even more laws. 8)
LOL! This is going to be a fun event. I can't wait to see the outcome!
Letter to the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics
To:? New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics
From:? Mike Fisher
Dear Members of the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics,
It is my pleasure to announce to you that I will be breaking New Hampshire?s professional licensing laws on Monday, May 9, at noon, in front of your offices at 2 Industrial Park Drive, in Concord.? At this time, I will set up a booth and sell manicures for profit without a license until I am forced to stop.
In short, I believe the law is wrong.? Licensing laws hurt many entry-level workers and entrepreneurs.? My belief in the Golden Rule does not allow me to hold a personal vendetta against any of you as individuals, nor do I blame the Board as a whole for the current regulatory environment.
Like other absurd laws, licensing was created with good intentions.? However, the practice of asking permission to make a living is not an act suitable for free people in a free country.?
Licensing is the doctrine of slavery.? Gandhi?s famous act of civil disobedience, the Dandi March of 1930, was carried out in opposition to British colonial salt licensing laws.
All that is necessary to protect responsible consumers in a free society is the natural system of professional reputations and optional private sector certifications.? The true purpose of my civil disobedience is to put an end to licensing regulations once and for all.
Sincerely,
Mike Fisher
603-498-7935
OMG Mike...that is GOOD!!
That is great... this is exciting. I hope you get coverage.
We will get coverage....aren't the Free Talk Live guys going to cover this event?
Local coverage I mean... FTL has already begun coverage.
I now have a contact at Foster's Daily Democrat, the Chief Editor.? I called him, explained that I'm on the Board of the NBA (Newmarket Business Association) and we're publishing a story about it in our newsletter. It was easy because I already have an advertising contact at Foster's that I met at a Business Open House organized by the Dover Chamber of Commerce a few months ago.
He asked me to send the Press Release and Letter to the Board to him immediately. He sounded interested in the story and said there's still time to publish it.
Just got in touch with an Editor of the Seacoast Newspapers through a referral from a business contact.? They're interested in the story.? She's too busy so I need to contact her on Tuesday.
It turns out the other contact I had at this paper was actually a part-time freelance writer, so this new contact is great news.
The Union Leader has been contacted. I could not find a way in through any back door contacts, so I tried the front door and called for an editor's contact info. This will probably not be as effective as press releases with other papers.
Sent to the Union Leader and Concord Monitor:
A bill to require licensing of shampoo assistants is making its rounds through the legislature. This bill highlights the true purpose of professional licensing, which is not to protect customers, but to reduce competition. To claim that the purpose of this bill is to protect us from a bad shampoo would be ludicrous. What adult does not know how to shampoo hair??
I for one, wish to claim full responsibility for my life. I don't want the nanny state protecting me from my choices, or limiting those choices. If I wish to hire a herbal expert to advise me about my health, that is my business. The state's licensing requirements adds costs to nearly every business transaction. I don't want to pay for it anymore. It's my money, and it's my responsibility to make safe choices for myself and for my family.
Licensure only gives a false sense of security. Otherwise why would there be all those malpractice lawsuits? When people have that false sense of security that the government has licensed an individual or business, they don't take the necessary steps to protect themselves. They don't use word of mouth or investigate the business in any way. It's time to end professional licensure.
Kat Dillon
...
Keene, NH 03431
...
Nice!!! :)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 22, 2005, 11:26 AM NHFT
Like other absurd laws, licensing was created with good intentions.
Actually, this is nonsence. Licensing laws weren't created with good intentions. They were from the beginning about protecting current industries from competition.
Tracy
And for the state to make more money, to fill in all of those debts they continually create.
Quote from: tracysaboe on April 22, 2005, 03:59 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 22, 2005, 11:26 AM NHFT
Like other absurd laws, licensing was created with good intentions.
Actually, this is nonsence. Licensing laws weren't created with good intentions. They were from the beginning about protecting current industries from competition.
Good point. I guess I should have said "licensing may have been created with good intentions."
i havent had a chance to read today's post but mike as I mentioned to you yesterday I have an issue with manicure vs. haircut. after talking to you yesterday i feel more strongly manicures arent' the right way to go and will further lay out reasons: Don't have time to be articulate tonight and won't debate this ad nauseum but I feel strongly we should go with haircuts rather than manicures. It's simpler, more visual, and will not provoke the distraction of "why is a guy giving manicures, is he trying to make some kind of sexual identity statement?" Clippers provide a more powerful symbol than whatever various tools people use for manicures. Only a minority of people use manicures, everyone gets haircuts. there are more people who give haircuts than maincures.
those are my reasons, and I do think the PR focus should be on one thing, until i hear a better idea the best thing seems to be haricuts. Tellling the press you are doing three things will bore and confuse them as they sort through dozens of story options for that day, telling them you are doing one thing will focus them. we can use electric clippers which are safe, dont have to use scissors. Manicures are considered frivilous, haircuts a sort of basic right. I will be more invovled in this if it involves haircuts, not sso active in assisting a project that focuses on manicures
Another issue is it's better not to send LTE's so far in advance of an event
but i'm thrilled to see activity and iwiill be supporting to some extent
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 22, 2005, 10:58 PM NHFT
i havent had a chance to read today's post but mike as I mentioned to you yesterday I have an issue with manicure vs. haircut. after talking to you yesterday i feel more strongly manicures arent' the right way to go and will further lay out reasons:? Don't have time to be articulate tonight and won't debate this ad nauseum but I feel strongly we should go with haircuts rather than manicures.? It's simpler, more visual, and will not provoke the distraction of "why is a guy giving manicures, is he trying to make some kind of sexual identity statement?"? Clippers provide a more powerful symbol than whatever various tools people use for manicures.? Only a minority of people use manicures, everyone gets haircuts.? ?there are more people who give haircuts than maincures.?
those are my reasons, and I do think the PR focus should be on one thing, until i hear a better idea the best thing seems to be haricuts.? Tellling the press you are doing three things will bore and confuse them as they sort through dozens of story options for that day, telling them you are doing one thing will focus them.? ?we can use electric clippers which are safe, dont have to use scissors.? ? Manicures are considered frivilous, haircuts a sort of basic right.? ?I will be more invovled in this if it involves haircuts, not sso active in assisting a project that focuses on manicures
Sorry, but it's too late.? The press releases have been sent out, and I'm doing manicures only.? I do not have the training, mentor, or tools to do haircuts.? I DO have the training, mentor, and tools to do manicures.? Haircuts are far more dangerous than manicures given this scenario, or any scenario.
You do not need to purchase a manicure to support this event, and I sure hope such a small detail does not deter you.? I will need willing customers, so try not to leave me hanging out there all alone in my booth.
The sexual identity issue you mentioned is a non-issue, and it would make little difference whether I cut hair or give manicures anyways.? There are many men that seek manicurist services, although women are the majority of customers.? A manicure is mostly about cleaning up your nails.? The hand massage will be optional and I'll ask each customer if they want one, but I'm sure the women won't mind a hand massage.? Besides, let's see how manly you are when I pull out the cuticle nippers.? Try not to scream out of fear.
(http://www.ccrane.com/Images/cuticle-nippers.jpg)
:o
Which service I will do is entirely secondary to the point that I'm going to make.? The real focus of the event will be WHY.? WHY would someone break the law and risk suffering the consequences?? WHY is this person being prosecuted, fined, or even jailed for selling a simple service?? WHY do we have these laws?? WHY don't we just get rid of them?
Sexual identity statement? ::) ::) um not the first thing I would think of.
Damn I just knew watching those Queer eye guys would make me to damn sensitive.
Don't worry, you wont be out there alone, Mike. It's tooo tooo bad. Kira just up and cut her mile-long fingernails off. It woulda looked great to have you do it! Heck, I don't even really know what a manicure is, but if it'll piss off the government, you can do it to me! ;)
The sun disappeared today....I am thinking I will need a good tanning session by May 9th 8)
I sure hope Mike has a license for all of this. ;D
It would be nice to have enough female clients there so the guys would not need to be customers, although I will still do manicures on male clients.
Will the Liberty Ladies be there?? ;)
There won't be that many customers anyways.? Most people would only be there to support the cause.? Manicures take 30 minutes to an hour each.
What I'll probably do is hold a silent auction for each manicure in order to make maximum profits.? :)? I'll have a piece of paper that people can write their first names on and their bid to see who wins the manicures.? Whoever pays the most wins, preferably a female.? lol
Open auctions on the sidewalk....that probably is breaking some laws in itself :D
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 23, 2005, 10:00 AM NHFT
It would be nice to have enough female clients there so the guys would not need to be customers, although I will still do manicures on male clients.
Will the Liberty Ladies be there? ;)
I'll be there with my daughter. :)
That would defeat the purpose. His message is that he doesn't need any stinkin license to do business.
Quote from: wholetthedogin? on April 26, 2005, 02:41 PM NHFT
Did you say your wife had a beautician's lic.?? ?She could be administratively dinged for keeping such bad company.
They would pay dearly in court if they turn this into a personal matter and take action against my wife or her employer.
I'm telling them that it is not a personal matter, that it's not their fault for the way things are.
Whew... just moved into our house two days ago.? Things are crazy right now!? ?:D
Hey just wanted everyone to know I haven't forgotten about this event but am out of town and bouncing all over: Feel free to grab my draft press release above and send it out with the following changes requested by mike :
Hey just wanted everyone to know I haven't forgotten about this event but am out of town and bouncing all over: Feel free to grab my draft press release above and send it out with the following changes requested by mike :
-Manicures instead of haircuts.
- Mike's not an expert on manicures, but now knows how to do them.
-He's actually 23 years old.
Optional changes:
-This hurts entrepreneurs and entry-level workers.
Anyone who wants to can dump those requested changes into the release.
I may try to change it up myself later but don't wait around for me; take this release and run with it if you like. I'm not going to do it all..and in any case if two of us email the same paper that's great! feel free to put this info in LTEs or press releases or what not.
Mike you can always dump those requested changes into the release.
I may try to change it up myself later but don't wait around for me; take this release and run with it if you like. and in any case if two or more of us email the same paper that's great! feel free to put this info in LTEs or press releases or what not.
Update!!!
An investigator with the New Hampshire Attorney General's Office called me today and said the NH Board of Cosmetology forwarded my letter to them immediately.
The investigator cited the law, said police WILL be present because of my letter, and warned that I WILL be arrested immediately if I do a manicure without a license. I told her that a police chief said it would not be an arrestable offense, but she said he was wrong.
After explaining this to me, she asked why I would do such a thing.? When I told her why, she did not know what to say, but she became very cordial with me on the phone.? :)
This is going to work.? I can feel it!? ?;D
Perhaps you should send out a follow-up press release with that info, letting the press know the cops thave threatened you.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 28, 2005, 05:05 PM NHFT
Perhaps you should send out a follow-up press release with that info, letting the press know the cops thave threatened you.
Good idea!
I just sent notice of this to my contacts at Foster's, the Seacoast Newspapers, and someone at the Union Leader.
Hopefully the turnout will be good for this event. The risk associated with this event is great and if the turnout and press are good, this will be a success.
There is still not one single business owner I've spoken to that agrees with licensing regulations. Most are highly opposed to these restrictions.
Wowie! Do you want us to bail you out?
Quote from: katdillon on April 28, 2005, 08:00 PM NHFT
Wowie!? Do you want us to bail you out?
No, please do not bail me out or hire me a lawyer. I'll be fine. :)
I will probably need someone to carpool in order to take my car keys at the event and drive my car back to my house, or temporarily store it at their house, when I am arrested. Otherwise my car will be towed.
We'll also need to reschedule the event to the next day or the next Monday if the weather is bad.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 28, 2005, 05:05 PM NHFT
Perhaps you should send out a follow-up press release with that info, letting the press know the cops thave threatened you.
Make sure you mention that it is the AG's office not the cops.
Isn't the AG considered the "Top Cop"?
OK I am back in action for the moment and re-working the press release to include the requested changes. I'm also going to try and include the latest update regarding the arrest threat. This is awesome news!
Dave will be there? I'm thinking between Dave and I, we could get your car taken care of, if you need us to, if that suits Dave's plans. It looks like Russell will be working. I'm planning on being there with Kira.
What else can I do to help?
Quote from: FTL_Ian on April 28, 2005, 10:02 PM NHFT
Isn't the AG considered the "Top Cop"?
Well, according to the intro to
Law and Order:?In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups -- the police who investigate crime, and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories."
Damn, my nails are looking a little rough around the edges... wish I could be there, Mike. ;)
Kat, did you use 'Russell' and 'working' in the same sentence?
It sometimes happens...I try not to let anyone see me doing it...hurts my rep
This is great Mike....these licensing laws must be very very important. ;D
I wonder if the cops will actually do something about you....it will just be more headaches for them.
They have a wonderful choice:
Let you work without a license....which is what we want....we will just extend it to other activities
or
Jail/fine you for just helping other people out...this is going to be fun
I am very glad you are doing this and am proud to be your friend.
Do you want anyone else to join in your illegal activities?
We could all be charging each other to do "tanning" sessions. 8)
Mike can you approve this revised release so I can start sending it out? Others are urged to pass it around as well, once Mike approves it. BTW this is the version for distribution inside New Hampshire; I wil make another version for national consumption.
---
NH AG's office threatens arrest over manicure
Seacoast entrepreneur Mike Fisher doesn't look the part of a manicurist - or an outlaw. But he's about to become both.
Invoking the patron saint of civil disobedience, Fisher plans to violate New Hampshire's cosmetology laws - right in front of the officials who enforce them. And representatives of Attorney General Kelly Ayotte have already threatened him with arrest.
Fisher, 23, of Newmarket, says he is so exasperated with state regulations on small businesses that the time has come to simply flout them.
His plan is to show up in front of the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics, a bureaucracy that regulates nail salons. There, he says, he will administer a manicure - for profit - "regardless of what they threaten me with."
After deciding his course of action, Fisher sent the Board a note informing them he would be showing up at their office to break the law they enforce. That triggered a call from the Attorney General's office; one of their investigators informed Fisher police would be present and he would be arrested immediately if he attempted to perform an unlicensed manicure.
Fisher says he got the idea from watching the movie "Ghandi."
"The British government (In India) had salt licensing laws," he says. "You could not make salt without a license. Now we cannot cut nails without a license, and I really don't see the difference."
A computer repairman, Fisher admits that until April he didn't know first thing about manicuring but has now learned the basics. He points out that anyone who *does* want to work as a manicurist would not be able to stand up to the Board the way he is doing. "They could lose their ability to get a license." he says.
It's the principle of the thing that bothers Fisher and a desire to see a rollback of state restrictions on most industries. "In a free country," he growls "people do not need permission to start a business."
As in most states, it is a misdemeanor in New Hampshire to administer a manicure without a license. An increasing number of other small business activities also require licenses. Fisher believes these simply provide a barrier to entry for young entrepreneurs like himself without effectively protecting the consumer or the public. "Private institutions and competition are more effective protectors of the customer," he adds, "and these are both weakened when government tries to do the job."
Supporters are invited to attend, join the fun and witness Fisher's act of civil disobedience. But you do not have to disobey the law yourself unless you wish to man the tweezers! The event will be on Monday, May 9, at noon, at or near the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301.
Summary:
What: Civil disobedience against "manicure law"
Why: To call attention to state govt. overregulation of small business
How: By delivering a manicure without a license
Where: At or near the enforcing bureacracy: NH Board of Barbering, 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301
When: Monday, May 9, noon (in the event of extreme weather, call the numbers below for a status report)
Who: Mike Fisher, supporters from NHfree.com, whoever wants to join us. Expected turnout: 10-20
Contact: Mike Fisher, 603-498-7935 Backup: Dave Ridley 603-721-1490
"A computer repairman, Fisher admits that until April he didn't know first thing about manicuring"
know [the] first thing
I think that sounds better. :)
I like this press release even better than the first one. 8)
OK also once mike has suggested his changes, don't wait for me to repair the thing....just jump in there and build a new version with your own changes until you get an approval from Mike and can start distributing the thing. I may try to process the requests myself or may not.
Dada, I approve of those changes!? Thank you for your help!? :)
Don't forget to put the City, State, and Date at the beginning! I've done this and posted it here:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Activists+to+Defy+State+Licensing+Laws
Quote from: katdillon on April 29, 2005, 06:46 AM NHFT
Dave will be there?? I'm thinking between Dave and I, we could get your car taken care of, if you need us to, if that suits Dave's plans.? It looks like Russell will be working.? I'm planning on being there with Kira.
What else can I do to help?
That's great. Thanks, Kat and Dave!!!
Quote from: russellkanning on April 29, 2005, 07:52 AM NHFT
Do you want anyone else to join in your illegal activities?
We could all be charging each other to do "tanning" sessions. 8)
Nah, that's alright. Let's see what happens to me first. ;)
To violate the tanning laws, you'd need to bring a full-size powered tanning bed. Who knows how much that would be?
I use the really high powered Helium model and turn it to "bright"
Make sure that people take plenty of pictures.
Also Russell I just turned off your tanning bed.
I had to pop in here and give you a way cool two thumbs up, Mike. You're awesome, and this makes me look forward even more to being in New Hampshire :)
Considering what a stir we made amoungst the postal employees on April 15th....can you imagine what they are talking about in that Cosmotogy Board building? :D
The first of many Government Orgs that will end up hating NHFREE.com.
Maybe there should be a different protest every month.... Bureacracy of the Month Club.
By request, I've sent this press release to Foster's, Seacoast Newspapers, Concord Monitor, the Union Leader, and the Institute for Justice.
Please e-mail it to the media contact for any papers in your town or region.? Thank you!? ?:)
Can anyone videotape this event?
Quote from: Dreepa on April 29, 2005, 06:18 PM NHFT
The first of many Government Orgs that will end up hating NHFREE.com.
Maybe there should be a different protest every month.... Bureacracy of the Month Club.
That's a cool idea! ;D
I say take it all the way. Plead not guilty, get a jury trial, and then have the NH Underground start in with a FIJA campaign outside the courthouse and in the media.
Challenge the law itself in court. Alert the Jury to Jury Nullification IN the courtroom, personally. ( You may have a contempt charge thrown at you and a mistrial, but it could result in more coverage.)
I think this could result in some awesome nationwide press coverage, with a little luck. Just be sure to mention the FSP to any media.
Oh, please don't get arrested before I get my manicure. I've been neglecting my nails for the past week. LOL. I won't get up there until around 12:20. Hey Mike, are you going to be accepting Liberty Dollars?
I really think a lawn chair with a sign nearby calling it a "tanning bed" would be hysterical. ;)
Great press release, Dada!
I love the jury aspects of this also 8)
LOL....have to laugh about that one.
FSP ?idea? is the best hope going for citizens? freedom.
?You can only get a jury by trial in NH if the crime is a class A misdemeanor or greater.?
I am not disputing that statement but simply asking is not such a government action created by some sort of legislation in defiance of shall make no Bill of Attainder law?
Bill of Attainder laws are forbidden any government body in the U.S. to enact by the federal Constitution and mentioned to two places in it.
Allan
NHFree.com was mentioned in the press releases, and the FSP is great and all, but as an individual, I want to focus solely on ending licensing laws once and for all. I hope that's okay with everyone. :)
On the topic of punishment, I previously said that I would refuse to pay the fine in order to be jailed.? However, if they're going to jail me regardless, as they have recently threatened to do, then I'll probably pay the fine in addition to serving a few days in jail in order to avoid the chance of significant jail time of up to a year (which would destroy my family and my business).? My willingness to pay the fine will depend on the punishment the judge returns and the potential punishment of not paying the fine.? Perhaps the initial punishment will be sufficient to prove the point that the law is wrong.
"I want to focus solely on ending licensing laws once and for all. I hope that's okay with everyone."
It's certainly OK with me and again I ask isn't every law that infringes or restricts a citizen freedom a Bill of Attainder? For Instance isn't a driver license required of a private, not commercial, citizen a Bill of Attainder?
Now I am not suggesting going to jail nor even protesting, I am suggesting getting such legislation repealed by forcing legislators to do it. And the only force citizens have is to fire those that endorse, sponsor and enact legislation restricting freedom (Bills of Attainder).
Allan
I thought I would show this act of civil disobediance that didn't work out as planned.http://www.big-boys.com/articles/copfinger.html
I think you would actually call this a prank gone wrong.
I call that fake. ::)
Update:
I just received a copy of a "Petition for Preliminary and Permanent Injunctive Relief".? It's a request by the Board and the Attorney General of Merrimack Superior Court to prevent and ban me from performing a manicure on May 9th in front of their offices in Concord.
In other words, they're trying to use the law to stop an outlaw.? ????? ????
Apparently, I'm a threat to the "health, safety, and welfare of the citizens of the State of New Hampshire."? ?::)
Here is a copy of the document I've scanned into text:
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
MERRIMACK, SS.
SUPERIOR COURT
The State of New Hampshire
V.
Michael B. Fisher
PETITION FOR PRELIMINARY AND PERMANENT INJUNCTIVE RELIEF
NOW COMES the State of New Hampshire, by and through its attorneys, the Office of the Attorney General, and hereby requests the Court to order Michael Fisher be restrained and prohibited from engaging in the unlicensed practice of barbering, cosmetology, or esthetics as defined in RSA 313-A:l in violation of New Hampshire laws on Monday, May 9th, 2005. The petitioner asserts the following in support of this petition:
Introduction1.? Upon information and belief, in violation of RSA 313-A:9, I, Michael Fisher will engage in the practice of barbering or cosmetology or esthetics without the appropriate license on Monday, May 9th, 2005.
2.? Upon information and belief, in violation of RSA 313-A:9, II, Michael Fisher will operate a salon that is not under the direct supervision or management of a professional licensed under RSA chapter 313-A on Monday, May 9th, 2005.
3.? Upon information and belief, in violation of RSA 313-A:9, III, Michael Fisher will hire or employ an unlicensed person or persons to engage in the practice of barbering or cosmetology or esthetics on Monday, May 9 2005.
4.? Upon information and belief, in violation of RSA 313-A:9, V, Michael Fisher will engage in the instruction of barbering or cosmetology or esthetics without holding a license as required by RSA chapter 313 - A, on or before Monday, May 9th, 2005.
5.? Upon information and belief, the threatened activities, if implemented could be in violation of state and city regulations pertaining to public demonstration.
Parties6.? The petitioner is the State of New Hampshire, by and through its attorneys, the Office of the Attorney General, with offices located at 33 Capitol Street, Concord, New Hampshire 03301, acting under the authority of RSA 21-M:2, II and RSA 21-M:5, 1.
7.? The respondent Michael Fisher is an individual person. The return address on the envelope mailed on April 23, 2005 states that his address is 362 Great Bay Woods, Newmarket, New Hampshire 03857 but, upon information and belief, his current address is 7 Lamprey River Park, Newmarket, New Hampshire 03857.
Jurisdiction and Venue8.? This court has jurisdiction over this action pursuant to, inter alia, 498: 1. The petitioner is principally located in Merrimack County. The respondent is an individual who resides in Rockingham County, New Hampshire. Venue lies in Merrimack County. RSA 507:9.? The threatened unlawful acts would occur in Merrimack County at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord.
Facts and Claims9.? On or about April 25, 2005, the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics (the ?Board") received a letter from the respondent which stated as follows:
It is my pleasure to announce to you that I will be breaking New Hampshire's professional licensing laws on Monday, May 9, at noon, in front of your offices at 2 Industrial Park Drive, in Concord. At this time, I will set up a booth and sell manicures for profit without a license until I am forced to stop.
Letter from Mike Fisher, Exhibit A.
10.? On or about April 28, 2005, an investigator from the Office of the Attorney General telephoned the respondent and notified him that if he engaged in the practice of barbering, cosmetology, or esthetics in violation of New Hampshire laws on Monday, May 9th 2005, he would be arrested and charged with a misdemeanor in accordance with RSA 313-A:9. The respondent responded that he was still intending to engage in such practice.
11.? Upon information and belief, the respondent has sent a "press release" to various media outlets containing the following:
The general public and supporters are invited to attend this event of civil disobedience. The event will be held on Monday, May 9, at noon, at or near the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301. Attendees are asked to bring their friends, families, cameras, anti-licensing signs, and positive attitudes.
Fisher Press Release, Exhibit B.
12.? The respondent is not licensed pursuant to RSA chapter 313-A.
13.? Upon information and belief, the respondent has not completed an application thirty (30) days prior to the event, nor has the respondent obtained the requisite permit from the City of Concord.? City of Concord, Code of Ordinances, Chapter 15, Section 15-10.
14.? Such application must be rejected or such permit must be revoked for just cause, including the purpose of the event, which is to violate state laws.
WHEREFORE, the petitioner respectfully requests that this Honorable Court:
A. Issue an order of notice for service on the respondent;
B. Schedule a hearing on the merits of the temporary relief requested on or before May 6th 2005; in the event the Court cannot schedule a hearing within said time frame, that this Court grant this petition for temporary relief ex parte;
C. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from engaging in any practice regulated by RSA chapter 313-A without the appropriate license. RSA 313-A:9, I.
D. Order temporary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from operating a salon without the direct supervision and management of a professional licensed under RSA chapter 313-A. RSA 313-A:9, II.
E. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from hiring or employing any unlicensed person to engage in a practice regulated by RSA chapter 313-A. RSA 313-A:9, III.
F. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from engaging in the instructing of any activity licensed by RSA chapter 313-A. RSA 313-A:9, V.
G. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from protesting without the requisite permits.
H. Grant such other relief as the court deems equitable and just.
Respectfully submitted,
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
By its attorneys
KELLY A. AYOTTE ATTORNEY GENERAL
Attorney
Civil Bureau
33 Capitol Street
Concord, New Hampshire 03301-6397
(603) 271-3650
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
This certifies that the foregoing was mailed first class, postage paid to Michael Fisher, 7 Lamprey River Park, Newmarket, NH, 03857.
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
MERRIMACK, SS. Term 2005
SUPERIOR COURT
The State of New Hampshire
v.
Michael B. Fisher
AFFIDAVIT OF LOUISE LAVERTU
NOW COMES Louise Lavertu being duly sworn and testifies:
1.? I am a member of the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics.
2.? My duties include regulating barbers, cosmetologists, and estheticians in the State of New Hampshire to assure that the services provided are effective and of a quality consistent with the standard of care within each profession, and to safeguard the public against harm which may be caused by unqualified, impaired, or unlicensed practitioners.
3.? Unlicensed individuals engaging in the practice of barbering or cosmetology or esthetics present a risk to the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens of the State of New Hampshire.
4.?
Mike Fisher's announced intention that he will engage in the practice of barbering or cosmetology or esthetics on May 9th, 2005
presents a risk to the health, safety, and welfare of the citizens of the State of New Hampshire.5.? I have reviewed the petition for ex parte preliminary and permanent injunctive relief.
6.? The factual assertions in the petition are true to the best of my knowledge and belief.
I, declare under penalty of perjury that the foregoing is true and correct.
Louise Lavertu
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE MERRIMACK, SS.
On the 29th day of April, 2005, before me, Wynn E. Arnold, the undersigned officer, appeared Louise Lavertu, known to me (or satisfactorily proven) to be the person whose name appears above, and she subscribed her name to the forgoing instrument.
Notary Public / Justice of the Peace
My commission expires:
OMG LOL these folks are unreal.
On the not so funny side this shows how far the PTB will go for just the threat of=Nail manicures=
it is sickning.
Woo hoo this is great! I have posted this latest development to other forums around the state. I also mentioned Mike's civil disobedience event on WKBK-AM today and WGIR-AM yesterday
I have a reformatted of the press release now for distribution around the nation via internet and what not. will post it here when i can get to the other computer.
anyone who can , pay in silver!
Mike doesn't like liberty dollars but i do and will buy some maybe if i can be there! have to check my work schedule
with regard to all the other ideas for civil disobedience (tanning beds, etc.) that is really a cool thought; i like the idea of this spreading like a fire. but these additional "disobediences" might be most effective if done on a different day. it would generate separate press coverage possibly and also give the sense of a growing trend.
Mike, just so you are aware. They are playing hard-ball. The penalties for breaking an injunction are far more severe than merely being arrested for practicing without a license.
This response by the PTB is totally irrational. Talk about wasting tax-payer dollars.
the more they hurt him the more they make his point for him; it's just a matter of how much punishment he can absorb and how well we can back him up
As long as he gets enough publicity it should be possible to maintain a base of support for him.? And the more they go after him the more publicity they generate.? ?With any luck this can generate new business for him too.
Keep the ideas coming about how we can handle what's likely to come our way over the next couple weeks. Letters to editor aplenty would be good; feel free to use this guide to NH media:
http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/BeTheMedia.php
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 30, 2005, 09:44 PM NHFT
the more they hurt him the more they make his point for him; it's just a matter of how much punishment he can absorb and how well we can back him up
As long as he gets enough publicity it should be possible to maintain a base of support for him.? And the more they go after him the more publicity they generate.? ?With any luck this can generate new business for him too.
Keep the ideas coming about how we can handle what's likely to come our way over the next couple weeks.? Letters to editor aplenty would be good; feel free to use this guide to NH media:
http://freestateproject.org/about/essay_archive/BeTheMedia.php
Agreed. Just wanted to make sure Mike knew what he was up against.
Mike, I will back you all I can. Will protest this thing as long as it lasts.
Thinking the PTB are getting VERY nervous about their lack of moral legitimacy. ;)
Did I just seem like Dave Mincin?
Oh also Mike I am so impressed with the response you've gotten on this so far I am going to send you (or hand you) $100. Wish i could do it in silver. I encourage others to do something similar to show Mike some early support. email me your new snail mail addie if you would mike...
Any chance of getting Mike lined up with an attorney ? Do you want one Mike?
Something worth noting here is that as this develops it should serve to help heal the rifts that have formed among free staters, uniting us against a common opponent. being attacked is the best way to be united.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 30, 2005, 09:44 PM NHFT
the more they hurt him the more they make his point for him; it's just a matter of how much punishment he can absorb and how well we can back him up
Exactly.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 30, 2005, 10:35 PM NHFT
Oh also Mike I am so impressed with the response you've gotten on this so far I am going to send you (or hand you) $100.? Wish i could do it in silver.? I encourage others to do something similar to show Mike some early support.? ?email me your new snail mail addie if you would mike...?
I'm not going to ask for donations because the Attorney General's office will once again warn me about "soliciting donations while failing to register as a charitable organization" like they did when we started the scholarship fund.
But I will say this much... my address is:
Mike Fisher
7 Lamprey River Park
Newmarket, NH? 03857
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 30, 2005, 10:35 PM NHFT
Any chance of getting Mike lined up with an attorney ?? ?Do you want one Mike?? ?
Nah, I'll be fine(d).? ?;)? I'm not going to pay an attorney to plead guilty for me.? ?;D
This must not be seen as a game played with the New Hampshire court system in order to force constitutional or other judgements that change the law, because it is NOT. This is an honest attempt at gaining public support to end all licensing restrictions. If the public does not support me, then nothing will change, and most people believe that's the way it should be.
I personally believe that an individual's rights must be respected regardless of the will of the majority, but many people disagree with that view, so it is very difficult to approach this issue from that direction.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on April 30, 2005, 10:35 PM NHFT
Something worth noting here is that as this develops it should serve to help heal the rifts that have formed among free staters, uniting us against a common opponent.? being attacked is the best way to be united.
Yeah, I apologized to them the other day for some earlier criticism.? It was not my place to criticize their efforts when I had been focusing on other efforts.
Yea we don't want to have a bunch of lawyers and a bankroll for these kinds of actions.....Mike is showing the moral bankruptcy of the system...fighting in court only murkies the water.
This is going great so far Mike. 8)
Mike, you're a dangerous individual....endangering the health of NH citizens by clipping their nails!! ::) ::) ::) ::)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on April 30, 2005, 11:27 AM NHFT
On the topic of punishment, I previously said that I would refuse to pay the fine in order to be jailed.? However, if they're going to jail me regardless, as they have recently threatened to do, then I'll probably pay the fine in addition to serving a few days in jail in order to avoid the chance of significant jail time of up to a year (which would destroy my family and my business).? My willingness to pay the fine will depend on the punishment the judge returns and the potential punishment of not paying the fine.? Perhaps the initial punishment will be sufficient to prove the point that the law is wrong.
This is what makes the whole civil disobedience thing hard....they will ratchet up the punishment to see if we cave. We need to decide ahead of time how much we can take....can we outlast them.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 01, 2005, 06:30 AM NHFT
This is what makes the whole civil disobedience thing hard....they will ratchet up the punishment to see if we cave. We need to decide ahead of time how much we can take....can we outlast them.
There's no question whether or not I'm going to do this. The only question is how severe the initial punishment will be and whether I'll opt for more.
The more severe the punishment is for the initial manicure, the more support we will have to end licensing. I have complete faith that all people, including the Board and the Judge, will see the brutality in this law when confronted with such an extreme case.
Sent this story to my contact at the Boston Globe from the prior article they created about the FSP.
Will call her on Monday or Tuesday.
I posted the link and invitation on Free Republic.
I just sent this LTE to the Citizen (Laconia)
Attorney General threatens arrest over manicure
For those of you who run small businesses and are fed up with the excessive regulation loosed upon you by state authorities, Monday May 9 is your opportunity to do something about it. At noon that day, Newmarket entrepreneur Mike Fisher will stand in front of the state Board of Barbering (2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH) and defy one of the many unjust laws it enforces. Regardless of the legal risks, he will administer a manicure without a license.
Fisher's planned civil disobedience has already triggered an arrest threat by the attorney general's office, but Fisher is undeterred. His goal is to draw attention to the many "commerce-prevention regulations" that affect *all* businesses in New Hampshire.
However he needs your help. I urge you to do what I am doing. Attend the event and spread the word about it. No one will expect you to violate the law or risk arrest; we'll just be glad to have your company. We are also low on video cameras, so if you'd like to come videotape the event that would be of special value. For more details and a fuller explanation of Fisher's reasoning, just drop by NHfree.com. Let's roll!
I've now posted the "national" version of the press release to the following heavily trafficked web forums:
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/listarticles.cgi?104#A93887
http://politicsandcurrentaffairs.co.uk/Forum/viewtopic.php?p=110033#110033
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1394621/posts
http://www.bearpit.net/index.php?showtopic=3843
http://www.debatepolitics.com/showthread.php?p=17544#post17544
Here's how it reads if you want to distribute it yourself:
---
NH Attorney General threatens arrest of Free Stater
Concord, New Hampshire, April 30, 2005
Granite state entrepreneur Mike Fisher doesn't look the part of a manicurist - or an outlaw. But he's about to become both.
Invoking the patron saint of civil disobedience, Fisher plans to violate New Hampshire's cosmetology laws - right in front of the officials who enforce them. And representatives of Attorney General Kelly Ayotte have already threatened him with arrest.
Fisher, 23, of Newmarket, is one of the 100+ "Free Staters" who have moved to New Hampshire since it was targeted for migration by a libertarian group, the Free State Project. In general, New Hampshire has fewer regulations and taxes than most states. But Fisher says there are still too many controls on small businesses, and the time has come to openly defy them.
His plan is to show up in front of the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics, a bureaucracy that regulates nail salons. There, he says, he will administer an unlicensed manicure - for profit - "regardless of what they threaten me with."
After deciding his course of action, Fisher sent the Board a note informing them he would appear before their office to break the law they enforce. That triggered a call from the Attorney General's office; one of their investigators informed Fisher police would be present and he would be arrested immediately if he attempted to perform an unlicensed manicure.
"After explaining this to me," Fisher recounts, "she asked why I would do such a thing. When I told her why, she did not know what to say, but she became very cordial with me..."
Fisher says he got the idea from watching the movie "Gandhi."
"The British government (In India) had salt licensing laws," he says. "You could not make salt without a license. Now we cannot cut nails without a license, and I really don't see the difference."
In Gandhi's case, the famous Mahatma chose to make salt without the license, suffered arrest and eventually had the pleasure of seeing the British leave India outright.
A computer repairman, Fisher admits that until April he didn't know first thing about manicuring but has now learned the basics. He points out that anyone who *does* want to work as a manicurist would not be able to stand up to the Board the way he is doing. "They could lose their ability to get a license." he says.
It's the principle of the thing that bothers Fisher and a desire to see a rollback of state restrictions on most industries. "In a free country," he growls "people do not need permission to start a business."
As in most states, it is a misdemeanor in New Hampshire to administer a manicure without a license. An increasing number of other small business activities also require licenses. Fisher believes these simply provide a barrier to entry for young entrepreneurs like himself without effectively protecting the consumer or the public. "Private institutions and competition are more effective protectors of the customer," he adds, "and these are both weakened when government tries to do the job."
Supporters are invited to attend, join the fun and witness Fisher's act of civil disobedience. But you do not have to disobey the law yourself unless you wish to man the tweezers! The event will be on Monday, May 9, at noon, at or near the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301.
Summary:
What: Civil disobedience against small biz. licensing
Why: To call attention to state govt. overregulation of small business
How: By delivering a manicure without a license
Where: At or near the enforcing bureaucracy: NH Board of Barbering, 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301
When: Monday, May 9, noon
Who: Mike Fisher, supporters from NHfree.com, whoever wants to join us. Expected turnout: 10-20
Source: New Hampshire Underground, www.NHfree.com
Also posted here:
http://www.itsallpolitics.com/here-vp64397.html#64397
http://www.politicalforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=128917#128917
http://www.uspoliticsonline.com/forums/showthread.php?p=359114#post359114
So Mike how do you feel one week until the first big event? :)
Quote from: russellkanning on May 02, 2005, 07:55 AM NHFT
So Mike how do you feel one week until the first big event? :)
Good!? :)
I'll probably be spending my birthday, May 11th, in jail.? May 9th was my sister's birthday, but she committed suicide 8 years ago.? May 9th is also my father's birthday.? May 6th is my wife's birthday.? lol
As long as NOBODY bails me out, I'll be in court within 48 hours!
I'm looking forward to the next few weeks!? :)
Of course, I will refuse bail, so it doesn't matter if you try to bail me out or not. ;)
Expect you can put me on the guest list! :)
and we will just miss my birthday...so our birthday present to you could be NOT bailing you out?
So what help do you and do you not want?
I am bummed I will be at work for that day...but this is just the first of many disobedient events for us. 8)
How can we bail you out and starve the beast all at the same time 8)
WANTED
(http://www.salemfarmscampground.com/Slumber%20Party.gif)
FOR UNLICENSED MANICURING
If you see these criminals, immediately contact
the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, & Esthetics
Caution! These individuals pose a grave threat to the Health & Safety
of the Citizens of New Hampshire
Wanted to make sure Mike saw this:
> I thought it might be useful to give a little
> history of the roots of the legislative/cosmetological
> axis in NH.
> Most of the legislation came from Rhona
> Charbonneau. She owned/owns the Academie of
> Cosmetologie (or whatever it is) on Rt. 102 in Hudson.
> She also spent many years in the NH Senate. During
> her tenure, there was at least one bill a year
> protecting the citizens of the state from bad hair
> days, bad fingernail days and other disasters. There
> have been various other legislators who have had
> important causes that required the citizens be
> protected from some great evil.
> It may be useful to Mike Fisher to quote the NH
> Constitution rather than winging it. Article 83
> states: "Free and fair competition in the trades and
> industries is an inherent right of the people and
> should be protected against all monopolies and
> conspiracies which tend to hinder or destroy
> it."..."Therefore, all just power possessed by the
> state is hereby granted to the general court to enact
> laws to prevent the operations within the state of all
> persons and associations, and all trusts and
> corporations, foreign or domestic, and the officers
> thereof, who endeavor to raise the price of any
> article of commerce or destroy free and fair
> competition in the trades and industries through
> combination, conspiracy, monopoly or any other unfair
> means..."
> Please feel free to forward this as you may wish.
> John Lewicke
Quote from: mvpel on May 02, 2005, 09:27 AM NHFT
WANTED
FOR UNLICENSED MANICURING
If you see these criminals, immediately contact
the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, & Esthetics
Caution!? These individuals pose a grave threat to the Health & Safety
of the Citizens of New Hampshire
LOL!
Don't make me laugh, I just got a wisdom tooth pulled this morning!!! ;D
Was it a licensed dentist? :)
Quote from: katdillon on May 02, 2005, 10:10 AM NHFT
Was it a licensed dentist? :)
I dunno. His good reputation precedes him!
Thank you all for spreading the news! Every little bit helps.
Why are all NH news outlets silent on this so far? One of my contacts is an editor that said they'll try to make the event, so perhaps ALL of them are waiting for the actual event to take place.
If they're wanting to interview you, better do it before the manicure ;)
yea...maybe they don't understand that after a short time Monday you will be unavailable for comment. :D
QuoteMost of the legislation came from Rhona
> Charbonneau. She owned/owns the Academie of
> Cosmetologie (or whatever it is) on Rt. 102 in Hudson.
Perhaps someone should contact Rhona, and ask her to explain why Mike is so dangerous, that we all must be protected by forcing him to go to her school and pay who knows what for tuition.
Ian, this afternoon my wife and I listened to your earlier FTL show about the "outlaw manicurist". ;D
That was really nice of you guys. Thank you! You guys are great!
This connection should also be set forth in a press packet or flyer.
Quote from: mvpel on May 02, 2005, 04:28 PM NHFT
This connection should also be set forth in a press packet or flyer.
I cannot find much info about Rhona Charbonneau or her business or history. Does anyone have a link?
Hey what if anything are we going to do on the 10th or 11th if and when Mike is in jail? A vigil at the jail? A sign wave? What jail will he be at? what times are best for a support protest of this kind? what signs should we make?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 02, 2005, 05:05 PM NHFT
Quote from: mvpel on May 02, 2005, 04:28 PM NHFT
This connection should also be set forth in a press packet or flyer.
I cannot find much info about Rhona Charbonneau or her business or history.? Does anyone have a link?
Try searching for Continental Academie
http://www.ci.hudson.nh.us/Selectmen/Minutes/m020122.html
http://continentalacademie.net/
Selectman Charbonneau said the Town is fortunate that they?ve been able to get the Department of Corrections to fix up the building, including fixing the cracks in the floor. They will put a lot of wax on the floor so it will stand up for six months, with regular mopping. The bathroom fixtures have to be replaced, and that will be done
compliments of her business, Continental Academie.
Mike, if it's pretty sure you'll be arrested, it would make sense for you to get a ride to Concord on Monday. Maybe someone on the coast could pick you up? I will pick you up if no one else is available, assuming that's what you want to do.
Quote from: katdillon on May 02, 2005, 05:40 PM NHFT
Mike, if it's pretty sure you'll be arrested, it would make sense for you to get a ride to Concord on Monday.? Maybe someone on the coast could pick you up?? I will pick you up if no one else is available, assuming that's what you want to do.
I'll ask my wife again if she's willing to drive me to the event. Last time she said no. I don't think she wants anyone's attention directed at her because she works in this industry, but I'll ask again.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 02, 2005, 04:13 PM NHFT
Ian, this afternoon my wife and I listened to your earlier FTL show about the "outlaw manicurist". ;D
That was really nice of you guys. Thank you! You guys are great!
Thanks for listening. Too bad we're not on in NH yet to help you promote this...
Mike...expect I can pick you up. Give me a call when time permits.
This is going to be good 8)
Quote from: davemincin on May 03, 2005, 08:15 AM NHFT
Mike...expect I can pick you up. Give me a call when time permits.
You're super, Dave :)
Man, do we have to have permits for TIME now???
This event will be covered in a 500 to 600-word article in the Exeter Newsletter this Friday and again in a follow-up article next Friday! :o A reporter interviewed me this morning by phone. She really likes the idea and the principle behind this civil disobedience!!!
Thanks for the ride, Dave! I look forward to it! :)
That is great to hear....we seem to get much more accurate coverage when the reporter is not against our cause.....I hope she isn't losing her unbiased media label to support a good cause. :D
This should be simple enough for anyone to grasp....why should the government be licensing activities like this one?
Is it illegal to transport an outlaw such as Mike? He is a dangerous criminal...be careful....Dave could be some sort of accessory...or whatever the term is 8)
"I have nail polish and I'm not afraid to use it! Get back, coppers!" :o :o
The Editor of the Exeter Newsletter called.? There will be a photo-op at my home tomorrow at 1pm because they probably can't make it to the actual event next Monday.? ?They want a picture of me giving someone a manicure, or at least pretending to. :)
HAve them pay you for it. (even if it's 2 cents.) Then you'll have already broken the law, by the time of the demonstration.
Tracy
You'd then also likely be violating zoning laws by operating a home based business without permission.
You guys are "wicked good" (working on my New England phraseology) at breaking laws....we need more of your types in NH :D
Bad laws deserve to be broken.
"Bad laws deserve to be broken."
That is true and bad legislation (laws) are broken everyday and people go to jail or pay a fine and will continue to do so until bad legialation is repealed. Citizens cannot repeal legislation they must force State Legislators to repeal State legislation and Congress critters to repeal federal legislation.
Allan
Ooohh... lookie what we have here. Another piece of mail from the NH Department of Justice. I can't wait to open it!
Oh, it's just a letter that states:
Attorney General
Department of Justice
33 Capitol Street
Concord, New Hampshire 03301-6397
Kelly A. Ayotte
Attorney General
Michael A. Delaney
Deputy Attorney General
May 2, 2005
William S. McGraw, Clerk
Merrimack County Superior Court
163 North Main St
Concord, NH? 03301
RE:?
State of New Hampshire v. Michael B. FisherDear Clerk McGraw:
Please find enclosed Exhibits A and B for attachment to the State's
Petition for Preliminary and Permanent Injunctive Relief that was filed on Friday, April 29, 2005.
Thank you for your considerate attention to this matter.
Sincerely,
Elyse S. Alkalay
Attorney
Civil Bureau
Enclosures
CC:? Michael Fisher
Then the letter to the Board (Exhibit A) and the initial press release (Exhibit B) were attached to the letter.
At least they're telling the whole story to the court. The judge knows from the outset that this is a political protest.
Kevin
Quote from: KBCraig on May 03, 2005, 04:03 PM NHFT
At least they're telling the whole story to the court. The judge knows from the outset that this is a political protest.
Kevin
Yup question is will that make it worse.
Quote from: Pat K on May 03, 2005, 04:14 PM NHFT
Yup question is will that make it worse.
Remember...
The worse, the better.
Is Kelly Ayotte our Janet Reno?
Yeah, you don't want Janet Reno and the Waco-treatment.
Sheriff Serves Notice of Court Hearing in Lawsuit to Prevent Manicure
[/size][/b]
The media called again this morning and told me about a hearing on Friday but I had not been made aware of it yet.? The Sheriff stopped by today but I did not hear him knock because I was listening to my wife's CD.? ;D? He left a document on my front door:
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
Merrimack County Superior Court
163 N. Main Street P. O. Box 2880
Concord, NH 03301 2880
603 225-5501
ORDER OF NOTICE
The State of New Hampshire v. Michael Fisher
NO . 05 - E - 01 72
RETURN DAY:? 06/07/2005
You have been sued and named as a party in a case filed with the Merrimack County Superior Court. Attached is a copy of the pleading which began this case.
The State of New Hampshire shall notify each Defendant of the above action by serving the defendant(s) immediately with a copy of the pleading initiating the case, orders that the Court has already issued, and this Order in a manner allowed by law.? Plaintiff shall file with the Clerk verification of the service process by June 07, 2005.
IMPORTANT NOTICE TO Michael Fisher:You must file a written appearance form with the Clerk on or before June 07, 2005. You must also file by July 07, 2005 a plea, answer or demurrer.? Send a copy of the appearance form and any other documents filed with the court to the attorney for the party filing the pleading or to the party if there is no attorney.? The name and address of the attorney or the party filing the pleading is contained in the pleading.? If you do not comply with these requirements you will be considered in default, you will not have an opportunity to dispute the claim(s) and the court may issue orders in this matter which may affect you without your input.
NOTICE OF HEARING: A Hearing on the following matters is scheduled for May 06, 2005 at 9:00 AM. in Concord:
Temporary Hearing
Hearing will be limited to offers of proof, 15 minutes per party. Motions for a more extended hearing will be addressed at this hearing. Parties against whom ex parte relief has been issued may request a more immediate hearing. Service of this notice must be effected immediately.
Please advise clients, witnesses, and others that it is a class B felony to carry a firearm or other deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V in a courtroom or area used by a court.
SERVICE IS TO BE MADE FORTHWITH.
BY ORDER OF THE SUPERIOR COURT
05/03/2005
William McGraw
Clerk of Court
AOC Form SUEP140 (Rev. 09/20/2001)
Don't go :)
This hearing will determine a few things...
You are holding a protest and have not gotten a permit... As they mention
Quote
13. Upon information and belief, the respondent has not completed an application thirty (30) days prior to the event, nor has the respondent obtained the requisite permit from the City of Concord. City of Concord, Code of Ordinances, Chapter 15, Section 15-10.
14. Such application must be rejected or such permit must be revoked for just cause, including the purpose of the event, which is to violate state laws.
Since you know such a permit is unlikely (and shouldn't be as mentioned above since it's for unlawful purposes) to be granted, this is pretty much a given...
Quote
WHEREFORE, the petitioner respectfully requests that this Honorable Court:
A. Issue an order of notice for service on the respondent;
Done.
Quote
B. Schedule a hearing on the merits of the temporary relief requested on or before May 6th 2005; in the event the Court cannot schedule a hearing within said time frame, that this Court grant this petition for temporary relief ex parte;
Done.
Quote
C. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from engaging in any practice regulated by RSA chapter 313-A without the appropriate license. RSA 313-A:9, I.
D. Order temporary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from operating a salon without the direct supervision and management of a professional licensed under RSA chapter 313-A. RSA 313-A:9, II.
E. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from hiring or employing any unlicensed person to engage in a practice regulated by RSA chapter 313-A. RSA 313-A:9, III.
F. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from engaging in the instructing of any activity licensed by RSA chapter 313-A. RSA 313-A:9, V.
G. Order preliminary and permanent injunctive relief restraining and prohibiting the respondent from protesting without the requisite permits.
H. Grant such other relief as the court deems equitable and just.
The real question is this: The law already DISALLOWS C-G... the only effect of a court rulling relief would be to add to the penalties...
In other words: Hold the event and you'd also be violating a court order telling you not to break the law in the first place.
NOT LEGAL ADVICE: Go, keep your mouth _SHUT_, refuse to answer anything, and record it all with a tape recording... Invite the Media in fact...
Private video cameras should be in attendance as well...
The Exeter Newsletter reporter just left after taking a lot of photos of me pretending to give her a manicure.? Of course I gave her a cookie before she left - no protest or report is complete without one!? ;)
It was pretty hard to stop laughing long enough for her to take any pictures.? It's probably rare that a photographer's hand should be present in a photograph, but it was in this case.? It should be interesting to see how this will be reported by the press.? I'm enjoying this!? ?:)
QuotePlease advise clients, witnesses, and others that it is a class B felony to carry a firearm or other deadly weapon as defined in RSA 625:11, V in a courtroom or area used by a court.
Is this standard, or did they add that just for you? ;D
Quote from: russellkanning on May 03, 2005, 02:32 PM NHFT
You guys are "wicked good" (working on my New England phraseology)
Wikkid Pissah. Keep workin' on it. ;)
Alright, guys and girls, we have the opportunity to make this into a big story in the Exeter Newsletter on Tuesday, but I need some help.
The paper just called and said they need someone to be the point of contact for any and all information on my condition on Monday. This contact should probably be either my wife or someone like Dave Ridley who can distribute this information between myself, my wife, and the press.
ALL stories written by these reporters must be completed with a deadline of Monday afternoon, so someone must be in constant contact with them from the beginning through the end.
If this is done correctly, this story would be "breaking news" on Tuesday, and I think it may be on or near the front page if the story is interesting enough.
Are you up for it, Dave?
I just spoke with a business aquaintance who is a photographer on the Board of the New Hampshire Professional Photographers Association.? He agreed wholeheartedly with this and said his Board has spent the past 3 weeks talking about New Hampshire's current attempts to implement licensing regulations on the photography profession!? Unbelievable!!! He said they've been referring to the state's ridiculous cosmetology licensing laws.
This is definitely the right time to do this.? I have a very good feeling about it.? :)
Agreed... there's no time like the present to stand up for freedom. The longer we wait, the more difficult the fight.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 04, 2005, 02:14 PM NHFT
Alright, guys and girls, we have the opportunity to make this into a big story in the Exeter Newsletter on Tuesday, but I need some help.
The paper just called and said they need someone to be the point of contact for any and all information on my condition on Monday. This contact should probably be either my wife or someone like Dave Ridley who can distribute this information between myself, my wife, and the press.
ALL stories written by these reporters must be completed with a deadline of Monday afternoon, so someone must be in constant contact with them from the beginning through the end.
If this is done correctly, this story would be "breaking news" on Tuesday, and I think it may be on or near the front page if the story is interesting enough.
Are you up for it, Dave?
More details? Dave is computerless, for the most part. I could do it. I don't have a cell phone. Tell me more what you need. :)
My advice is don't accept legal advice from online forums.
I think it wouldn't be a bad idea to go to the hearing, and bring a witness or two, just to make sure they don't try any funny-business beyond the stated "presentation of proof" purpose of the hearing.
Mike I'm not sure if I could be your only press contact guy; if I serve in a press contact capacity there will need to be a backup for me (just as I am currently the backup for you). I might have to sub at work or something and become unavailable for part of the day monday or tuesday. I'm happy to be one of two contacts; I just can't committ to doing it alone.
Your mission, should you accept it, will be...? ?:D
I just e-mailed you, Dave and Kat.? Please lemme know what you want to do!
Oh man... I'm a Hillary Hater now? There's gotta be a better description than that!
Quote from: Rearden on May 04, 2005, 03:39 PM NHFT
Do we know any lawyers who can offer advice (pro-bono) on the best way to handle this?
I wonder if Evan would be up for it...
Mike, do you object to me checking around on your behalf?
Free advice is good, but I do not want any help in court.
Hey Mike...Expect if you will be needing a ride to Concord, I will be hearing from you in the near future? ???
Update:
I received another letter from the state DOJ today.? Allison V, an investigator with the Criminal Justice Bureau, finally sent the letter I asked for quoting the law that I will be violating.? It was pleasant to be threatened by such a nice person as Allison.? It's like having clean sheets on the bed of your jail cell.? :)? (No, I am not being sarcastic.)
Interesting... looks like they've already forwarded this info to the Concord police department.? I wonder if they'll try to prevent my self-incrimination.? ;)
(Attorney General, DOJ header)
May 2, 2005
Mike Fisher
7 Lamprey River Trailer Park
Newmarket, NH? 03857
Re:? Letter to Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics
Dear Mr. Fisher:
This letter is a follow-up to our phone conversation on Thursday, April 28, 2005 regarding your letter to the Board indicating you plan to break New Hampshire's professional licensing laws on Monday, May 9, 2005 by setting up a booth at 2 Industrial Park Drive in Concord, NH and selling manicures for profit without a license until you are forced to stop.
As I stated to you, this is a criminal violation. RSA 313-A:9 states it is a misdemeanor to engage in any practice regulated by this chapter without the appropriate license; operate a barbershop, salon, or school unless such establishment is at all times under the direct supervision and management of a professional licensed under this chapter (see attached).
If you have any question regarding this matter, please feel tree to contact me at (603) (clipped). This case has been forwarded to the Concord Police Department.
Sincerely,
Allison P. V. (clipped)
Investigator, Criminal Justice Bureau
(RSA 313 A:1 to A:2 and A:8 to A:10 and were attached to the letter.)
Latest version of press release for New Hampshire media, with updated contact persons.
---
NH Attorney General threatens to jail "outlaw manicurist"
Concord, New Hampshire: May 4, 2005
Granite state entrepreneur Mike Fisher doesn't look the part of a manicurist - or an outlaw. But he's about to become both.
Invoking the patron saint of civil disobedience, Fisher plans to violate New Hampshire's cosmetology laws - right in front of the officials who enforce them. And representatives of Attorney General Kelly Ayotte have already threatened him with arrest, issuing an injunction and sending local law enforcement to his home.?
Fisher, 23, of Newmarket, believes there are too many controls on small businesses, and the time has come to openly defy them.? Last week he announced he would show up in front of the New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics, a bureaucracy that regulates nail salons.? There, on May 9, he plans to administer an unlicensed manicure - for profit and in their faces - "regardless of what they threaten me with."
That triggered a call from the Attorney General's office; one of their investigators informed Fisher police would be present and he would be arrested immediately if he attempted to perform an unlicensed manicure.?
"After explaining this to me," Fisher recounts, "she asked why I would do such a thing.? When I told her why, she did not know what to say, but she became very cordial with me..."
Fisher says he got the idea from watching the movie "Gandhi."
"The British government (In India) had salt licensing laws," he says. "You could not make salt without a license. Now we cannot cut nails without a license, and I really don't see the difference."
In Gandhi's case, the famous Mahatma chose to make salt without the license, suffered arrest and eventually had the pleasure of seeing the British leave India outright.
A computer repairman, Fisher admits that until April he didn't know first thing about manicuring but has now learned the basics. He points out that anyone who *does* want to work as a manicurist would not be able to stand up to the Board the way he is doing. "They could lose their ability to get a license." he says.
It's the principle of the thing that bothers Fisher and a desire to see a rollback of state restrictions on most industries. "In a free country," he growls "people do not need permission to start a business."
As in most states, it is a misdemeanor in New Hampshire to administer a manicure without a license. An increasing number of other small business activities also require licenses. Fisher believes these simply provide a barrier to entry for young entrepreneurs like himself without effectively protecting the consumer or the public. "Private certification institutions and competition are more effective protectors of the customer," he adds, "and these are both weakened when government tries to monopolize the job."
Supporters are invited to attend, join the fun and witness Fisher's act of civil disobedience.? The event will be on Monday, May 9, at noon, at or near the NH Board of Cosmetology at 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301.? Bring a video camera if you can.
Summary:
What: Civil disobedience against small biz. licensing
Why: To call attention to state govt. overregulation of small business
How: By performing a manicure without a license
Where: At or near the enforcing bureaucracy: NH Board of Barbering, 2 Industrial Park Drive, Concord, NH 03301
When: Monday, May 9, noon
Who: Mike Fisher, supporters from NHfree.com, whoever wants to join us.
Contacts: Mike Fisher (until jailed: 603.498.7935), Kat Dillon (603.357.2049) or Dave Ridley (603.721.1490)
Source: New Hampshire Underground, www.NHfree.com
I got a call today as a result of one of the two LTE's I sent out...
A gentleman who owns a mobile home park here in town, said he would love to come but can't be there that day. He said he really appreciates what Mike is doing , asked if we were part of that "freedom group" that was coming to NH. He said he is thinking of leaving the state but that he would regret doing so becuase it would make it harder to be part of our freedom fight.
I've invited him to NHfree.com
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 04, 2005, 02:29 PM NHFT
I who is a photographer on the Board of the New Hampshire Professional Photographers Association.? He agreed wholeheartedly with this and said his Board has spent the past 3 weeks talking about New Hampshire's current attempts to implement licensing regulations on the photography profession!? Unbelievable!!!? He said they've been referring to the state's ridiculous cosmetology licensing laws.
We should see if they (Photographers) can have some people there
a. take some pictures of event.
2. See the foolish laws on cosmetology.
III Join NHFREE.com
All this threatening of Mike and some people think we live in a free country ::) ....this is working to perfection to show how insane the STATE has gotten.
I've e-mailed the May 4 version of the press release to NHPR, NH public TV, Union Leader, Keene Sentinel, Nashua Telegraph.
I still need to email Taxpayer Radio.? I called free talk live and talke about it again yesterday, telling them about the hearing tomorrow and Mikes plan to get a Gandhi quote for a tatoo! They are very excited about it.
I told the Union Leader about the hearing but no one else.
How could you get a tatoo illegally? hmmmm
Will you get "Low Impulse Control" on your forehead?
More lavish coverage on FTL last night: http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL050405B.mp3
One question we came up with is does the receiver of the manicure risk arrest as well for "receiving an unlicenced manicure"?
Mike Fisher the Outlaw Manicurist has a hearing in court in Concord this day, don't know when. The AG is trying to stop his protest. Anyone else know?
I think it is the Merrimack District court or county court.
I wondered about that, too.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 05, 2005, 08:33 AM NHFT
More lavish coverage on FTL last night: http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL050405B.mp3
One question we came up with is does the receiver of the manicure risk arrest as well for "receiving an unlicenced manicure"?
No... it's the doer in this case only... it's not like the John/Hooker issue where getting it also a crime.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 05, 2005, 08:33 AM NHFT
More lavish coverage on FTL last night:? http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL050405B.mp3
One question we came up with is does the receiver of the manicure risk arrest as well for "receiving an unlicenced manicure"?
Thanks, guys! That's some serious coverage!!! Hopefully the general media will react in the same way as you have, by discussing the issue in detail. It would be beyond my wildest dreams if this were to happen on a large scale because of our action!
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 05, 2005, 07:38 AM NHFT
I've e-mailed the May 4 version of the press release to NHPR, NH public TV, Union Leader, Keene Sentinel, Nashua Telegraph.
I still need to email Taxpayer Radio.? I called free talk live and talke about it again yesterday, telling them about the hearing tomorrow and Mikes plan to get a Gandhi quote for a tatoo!? ?They are very excited about it.
I told the Union Leader about the hearing but no one else.
Thanks, Dave! You're a great activist!
Yep, I'm getting a Gandhi quote as a tattoo on my shoulder today or tomorrow. I was thinking about getting one anyways, but a large coincidence happened on Sunday which led to this decision.
With the NBA (Newmarket Business Association), I worked on a committee of 3 or 4 people to organize Newmarket's first Community Dinner Dance which took place on Sunday. We raised $2,000 for the NBA, Dot Shorey Scholarship Fund, a local scholarship fund, and Club Chameleon, a local nonprofit organization for the town's children. I had the job of mailing out 4,300 postcards and doing fundraising phone calls to local businesses. The event, on May 1, was a success!
One local business, Integrity Tattoo, donated a $100 gift certificate for a tattoo to the event, and I won it! What a weird coincidence!
I'm going to get this Gandhi quote tattooed on my shoulder:
The quest of truth involves self-suffering, sometimes even unto death.
Ann Larney, the head of the Civil Bureau at the Attorney General's office just called and we had a lengthy conversation.? Apparently, in my opinion, the government is catching on to my plan and is attempting to appear more humane than it really is by trying to back out of their injunction against me.
She informed me about the law and the injunction and asked if I would reconsider my action in light of the possible consequences.? I initially said that "I will probably not reconsider my action."? She said this is a relatively good reply so the state may back out of its injunction against me.? "We try not to use the full power of the state unless necessary," she said.? Then she asked the same question again, and I replied "In all honesty, I will not reconsider my action.? I have no choice because this is the only way left for me to fight against these laws."
Then she tried to talk me out of it by mentioning all of the legal methods of change, and I talked about each possible method and explained that I have already tried all of the other methods and they have all failed to make a difference, so this is the only option left.? She asked again if I would reconsider the action and I refused.? She continued to ask the same question, over and over again, in different ways, probably in order to have a reason to cancel the injunction.
She said the state may withdraw its injunction and see what happens on Monday, and if I were to go through with it, they would seek an injunction against me afterward.? I was confused.? I asked why she would do this, because an after-the-fact injunction would have no effect, and she asked, "is this the only time you're going to do this?"? "No," I replied.? "Then," she says, "we would obtain a more broad injunction that would encompass any similar type of action."
It seems they're beginning to catch on, but as she admitted, the state cannot allow me to break the law without misdemeanor consequences because that would be selective enforcement of the law, which would be unfair to those who abide by the law.? I'm going to the hearing tomorrow anyways, unless they call to say the injunction has been cancelled.? Is anyone willing to go with me?
I'm new here, and don't know about this. What heinous crime against the State has he been accused of?
On Monday, Mike will be giving manicures for profit without a license.
Yes, I can, if you need moral support. :)
The date/time/locale is:
May 06, 2005 at 9:00 AM. in Concord:
Merrimack County Superior Court
163 N. Main Street P. O. Box 2880
Concord, NH 03301 2880
603 225-5501
...assuming they don't cancel this, which may happen.
Quote from: katdillon on May 05, 2005, 12:56 PM NHFT
Yes, I can, if you need moral support. :)
No need to!? :)
Marie at the Merrimack County Superior Court just called and said the petition for injunction was unilaterally cancelled!? ?8)? Run, state!? RUN!!!? ?:o? ;D
Attorney General's Office Cancels Lawsuit Against Outlaw Manicurist
Initially, the state tried to crack down on Fisher and discourage him.? A sheriff was sent to serve Fisher with a notice of hearing for a lawsuit to prevent the illegal manicures and make the consequences far more severe.? However, after at least one phone call from the press, the Attorney General's office called Fisher in a more reconciliatory tone, attempting to back off from their initial threats.
Ann Larney, Chief of the Civil Law Bureau of the Department of Justice, repeatedly asked Fisher to give the state any reason to cancel their lawsuit against him but he politely defended his plans and refused to back down.? "We do not want to use the full power of the state unless necessary," Larney told him.? "She was very friendly with me and I appreciate that," Fisher said.? Within an hour, Fisher received another call saying the state's petition for injunction had been unilaterally withdrawn.
Regarding the state's actions, Fisher said, "I will not back down.? Apparently the state might give in, for whatever reason."? He was not given an explanation for why the lawsuit was cancelled, but at one point Larney said, "we want to wait and see what happens on Monday."? She later warned, "if you go through with this, we'll file for a more broad injunction against any similar future actions."
(Edited:? removed allegations of "panic", added various quotes from Larney, etc.)
A suggestion for Monday. Maybe you want to have a list of some specific RSA (laws) you want to repeal. When they ask why your doing it you can tell them you think X, Y and Z RSA's should be repealed. Maybe better than just a generic statement? Just a thought.
For me...it almost seems like I am giving into their sick bureaucracy to know their little law numbers and legal terms >:(
I don't want a government....so why should I look up thier laws.
What do you think Mike?
I love it that they are giving in....how about just get rid of the stupid laws.......save us all a lot of trouble. 8)
A search of RSAs for "license" gave over 500 results. A quick glance through them gave me the impression that most were business licensing issues. :(
They cancelled the lawsuit, probably out of fear of the press phone calls they've been receiving. ;D
Quote from: GDouglas on May 05, 2005, 02:27 PM NHFT
A suggestion for Monday. Maybe you want to have a list of some specific RSA (laws) you want to repeal. When they ask why your doing it you can tell them you think X, Y and Z RSA's should be repealed. Maybe better than just a generic statement? Just a thought.
My list includes one request at this time: eliminate all licensing laws once and for all!
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 05, 2005, 08:33 AM NHFT
More lavish coverage on FTL last night:? http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL050405B.mp3
One question we came up with is does the receiver of the manicure risk arrest as well for "receiving an unlicenced manicure"?
He can always claim ignorance :D
I'm going on air in about 8 minutes but while I am waiting I am watching this thread.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 05, 2005, 02:21 PM NHFT
No need to! :)
Marie at the Merrimack County Superior Court just called and said the petition for injunction was unilaterally cancelled! 8) Run, state! RUN!!! :o ;D
I can see the press release now...
Bahahahahah! Sounds like they're scared. They thought they could scare you away, but you stood fast. Nice...
Impressive, Mike. Kick ass and take names.
Unfortunately, our streaming link is down and so you guys can't hear this. We used Mike's situation to kick off the show. Ed is now reading something from a similar situation in Florida where zoning officials are removing signs that welcome home soldiers from Iraq as if it is something so important.......so it flowed right in.
Also Mike will be on the show after the fact....
Quote from: CNHT on May 05, 2005, 04:11 PM NHFT
Unfortunately, our streaming link is down and so you guys can't hear this. We used Mike's situation to kick off the show. Ed is now reading something from a similar situation in Florida where zoning officials are removing signs that welcome home soldiers from Iraq as if it is something so important.......so it flowed right in.
Also Mike will be on the show after the fact....
Thank you! :) :)
I've edited the above story... a lot.
Ann Larney was very nice to me on the phone, and the lawsuit was canceled after speaking with her, so she is obviously a VERY kind person and I respect her for that. I did not want to ignore her gracious attitude and use today's events against her in a negative manner because that would be malicious and uncalled for, and that is not the type of person I am.
Hopefully everyone will understand if I do not exploit today's events to increase our publicity. I honestly welcome any positive change in the state's attitude and actions, and this is a wonderful turn of events in that regard. It may not increase our publicity, but it furthers our cause. The less brutal the state is, the better!
I can't believe I wrote the story in such a malicious manner for the first draft. :o What is wrong with me?! :-\
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 05, 2005, 04:35 PM NHFT
I've edited the above story... a lot.
I can't believe I wrote the story in such a malicious manner for the first draft.? :o? What is wrong with me?!? ?:-\
You forgot. You're in NH now, boy!? ?:-*
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 05, 2005, 04:35 PM NHFT
I've edited the above story... a lot.
Ann Larney was very nice to me on the phone, and the lawsuit was canceled after speaking with her, so she is obviously a VERY kind person and I respect her for that. I did not want to ignore her gracious attitude and use today's events against her in a negative manner because that would be malicious and uncalled for, and that is not the type of person I am.
Hopefully everyone will understand if I do not exploit today's events to increase our publicity. I honestly welcome any positive change in the state's attitude and actions, and this is a wonderful turn of events in that regard. It may not increase our publicity, but it furthers our cause. The less brutal the state is, the better!
I can't believe I wrote the story in such a malicious manner for the first draft. :o What is wrong with me?! :-\
There's still Monday ... but I'm happy to see there's sanity on the part of the establishment. WTG, Mike :)
QuoteYour forgot. You're in NH now, boy! Kiss
Cute :) That may very well be part of it. It's a positive sign, for sure.
Has anyone prepared a handout for the press and passerby regarding the Constitutional and moral problems with licensing laws?
Quote from: wholetthedogin? on May 05, 2005, 08:04 PM NHFT
Think of the AG as a useful tool to be used by all------keeps all public officials and businesses accountable to the laws on the books including but not limited to Consumer Protection. Ann L., K. Ayotte, J. Coburn are all straight shooters.? ?Can't burn all your bridges at same time, specially when you're still standin' on one.? ?Dawg Rule 312.
Not so fast. We at CNHT have other ideas about the AG's office. Go read our message board. In this case you were lucky.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 03, 2005, 02:29 PM NHFT
You'd then also likely be violating zoning laws by operating a home based business without permission.
There you go!
(I give piano lessons inside of my house on occasion. I wonder if that's illegal. Never thought of it.
shhhhhh.
Tracy
Quote from: mvpel on May 05, 2005, 08:37 PM NHFT
Has anyone prepared a handout for the press and passerby regarding the Constitutional and moral problems with licensing laws?
Oh, I'll do that.
Uhh guys...
We made the front page of the paper today. 8)
Which paper?
Which paper?
BTW weather looks good for Monday 8)
The Exeter Newsletter. I received a call at 8am from a local friend who is an attorney that wants to help in my defense.
sounds great....if he knows what you are trying to accomplish and how you want to do it. 8)
Doesn't look like it's online yet.
If you want to try and call in to WKBK the number is (603) 357-1290. Dan Mitchell's going to be talking about it more after the commercial. So far it's a great show!
Anyone can call in.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/exeter/05062005/news/40963.htm
Polished protest
By Johanna Maranto
newsletter@seacoastonline.com
NEWMARKET - When Newmarket resident Mike Fisher decided to give manicures for profit publicly next Monday without obtaining a state license, he expected his planned act of disobedience to result in arrest for criminal misdemeanor.
The New Hampshire attorney general?s office had petitioned the Merrimack County Superior Court to issue a temporary and permanent injunction against Fisher?s actions, but a court hearing scheduled for today was canceled late yesterday afternoon..
If it is issued, Fisher would not only be breaking the law when he carries out his plan but would be in violation of a court order, as well.
Fisher is planning to set up a manicure booth in front of the State Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics offices in Concord on Monday, May 9, at noon. It is a criminal misdemeanor in New Hampshire to provide manicures, haircuts, massages or tanning services without a license from the board.
Fisher, who has sought publicity for his action, is attempting to call attention to the hardship caused by licensing restrictions on entry-level workers and entrepreneurs.
"It?s hard to start a business. These types of restrictions, anything that gets in the way, deter or kill businesses," he said. "People who are starting businesses just want to do it."
Fisher, who is on the board of the Newmarket Business Association, moved with his wife from Vermont to New Hampshire last year in order to start his home-based computer trouble-shooting business with a minimum of regulatory red tape.
"It?s hard in Vermont to start a business. In New Hampshire, it was just a $50 fee for a trade name registration."
But as Fisher began to service small businesses in the area, he became aware of state licensing laws that impede many other types of small business start-ups.
A member of the N.H. Underground, which defines itself as an organization that engages in "pro-liberty NH activism" (www.NHFree.com), and a proponent of the Free State Project, Fisher is concerned about civil rights and liberties.
He said, "In a free country, people do not need permission to start a business. We are no longer free to make a living without government approval."
In a letter to the licensing board informing it of his planned action, Fisher wrote, "All that is necessary to protect responsible consumers in a free society is the natural system of professional reputations and optional private sector certifications."
The board, which refused to comment on the matter, responded to his letter by contacting Elyse Alkalay of the attorney-general?s office, who serves as legal counsel to the board.
PHOTO
(http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/exeter/e5_6a.jpg)
Mike Fisher of Newmarket demonstrates the kind of manicures he plans to administer in front of the New Hampshire board of Barbering and Cosmetology and Esthetics next week despite the treat of arrest.
Photo by Jamie Cohen
Alkalay said that engaging in a manicure without a license is a violation of criminal law. She hopes Fisher will attend the injunction hearing and recognize the seriousness of his planned actions, but said that the injunction would be issued ex parte, that is, whether or not he attends.
Fisher voiced concern that the charges listed in the copy of the injunction petition he received were "more than what is reasonable."
The petition states that he will be hiring people without a license, which he said is untrue, that he will be setting up shop without a license, operating without a license and demonstrating in Concord without a permit.
Fisher said he knows the licensing laws were enacted with good intentions. But he said it took him only 30 minutes to look up sanitary manicure procedures on Google.
He will buff, file, shape and polish nails, but said he is not skilled enough to trim cuticles. Fisher will sanitize his manicure tools, using disposable tools when possible, and sanitize both his and customers? hands before proceeding.
Fisher said he was inspired to this action after recently re-watching the movie "Gandhi," and was modeling his behavior according to Gandhi?s principles. Fisher said, "Gandhi was nonviolent, cordial and never tried to create malice."
Fisher plans to refuse bail and knows that a hearing will be scheduled within 48 hours of his arrest. Beyond that, he is not sure what will happen. But he hopes the course of the legal proceedings will pique the public?s interest and increase awareness of civil-rights infringements imposed by the state licensing requirements on small business start-ups.
Fisher said, "It?s time to put an end to licensing laws, once and for all."
(http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/exeter/e5_6a.jpg)
The hardened face of a criminal!
This lawless thug must be stopped!
Awesome, awesome coverage. Hopefully the other news outlets will jump on board as a result.
The state just looks pathetic in this coverage. This is going exactly as planned. ;D ;D
This is my favorite part:
Quote from: katdillon on May 06, 2005, 09:08 AM NHFT
Alkalay said that engaging in a manicure without a license is a violation of criminal law.
Fisher said he knows the licensing laws were enacted with good intentions. But he said it took him only 30 minutes to look up sanitary manicure procedures on Google.
Outlaw Manicurist on WKBK, front page of Exeter paper
Today's pre-publicity on the "Outlaw Manicurist" included a half hour segment on WKBK-AM in Keene and this article at least one of the Seacost papers.
It was the lead story last night on Taxpayer Radio 90.7 FM, Amherst.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 06, 2005, 10:49 AM NHFT
Outlaw Manicurist on WKBK, front page of Exeter paper
Today's pre-publicity on the "Outlaw Manicurist" included a half hour segment on WKBK-AM in Keene and this article at least one of the Seacost papers.
It was the lead story last night on Taxpayer Radio 90.7 FM, Amherst.
I tried to call WKBK for a while with no luck. Something may be wrong with my mobile phone!
Hampton Union
Nail-biting situation in Concord
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/hampton/05062005/news/41050.htm
But this article doesn't tell about their having backed down....what gives?
It is a newspaper......"old media".....if you want the latest..you have to go where the action is 8)
Okay! I know what you mean.. I had read right here that the injunction was withdrawn........and assume that is still the status.
Hey Mike, I'm gonna guess you'll be carrying, is that right?
Quote from: JonM on May 06, 2005, 12:10 PM NHFT
Hey Mike, I'm gonna guess you'll be carrying, is that right?
No way! Carrying during this event would introduce too many variables that I cannot control.
Thanks for the front page coverage, Kat! :)
Something's wrong with the Exeter Newsletter story on the web, but here's what the second photo was supposed to be:
(http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/Portrait2.jpg)
Yes, that's the photographer's hand. lol
Did you charge for that?
What do you think about this for an event handout? I also have two articles I'll print and hand out:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/archives/fm/08-90.html
http://www.fff.org/freedom/1096d.asp
Why End Licensure?
? Business licensure makes it difficult for new entrepreneurs to start up their businesses.
? Licensing reduces competition.
? The bureaucracy involved in business licenses raises costs for everyone.
? In a free country, individuals have the right to begin a business without government interference.
? If good business practices are such an important issue, why entrust their oversight to the government?
? Business oversight can be performed more effectively by voluntary certification.
? It is wrong to force individuals to only do business with licensed businessmen.
? Licensing hurts poor but otherwise qualified potential businessmen the most--those that can't afford expensive costs for business start-up.
? Government licensing restrictions prohibit millions of Americans from practicing the occupation of their choice.
? Over 800 professions now require a government license to practice.
? Licensing laws are almost always engineered by professional associations who want to protect the public from competitors who might charge lower prices.
For more information visit:
http://nhfree.com
Do you think that they back down because they read this site.. and saw what you were trying to do?
and they were afraid to make it a bigger deal then it already is?
Good idea, hand these articles out to everybody their at the event.
CAll all the talk shows in the area, and explain it to them too.
Tracy
Quote from: katdillon on May 06, 2005, 01:20 PM NHFT
What do you think about this for an event handout? I also have two articles I'll print and hand out:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/archives/fm/08-90.html
http://www.fff.org/freedom/1096d.asp
Why End Licensure?
? Business licensure makes it difficult for new entrepreneurs to start up their businesses.
? Licensing reduces competition.
? The bureaucracy involved in business licenses raises costs for everyone.
? In a free country, individuals have the right to begin a business without government interference.
? If good business practices are such an important issue, why entrust their oversight to the government?
? Business oversight can be performed more effectively by voluntary certification.
? It is wrong to force individuals to only do business with licensed businessmen.
? Licensing hurts poor but otherwise qualified potential businessmen the most--those that can't afford expensive costs for business start-up.
? Government licensing restrictions prohibit millions of Americans from practicing the occupation of their choice.
? Over 800 professions now require a government license to practice.
? Licensing laws are almost always engineered by professional associations who want to protect the public from competitors who might charge lower prices.
For more information visit:
http://nhfree.com
Mike got a call from Channel 9...they're going to be filming on Monday.
(http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/Portrait2.jpg)
Look at the dangerous way the lawless thug is wielding that file! Someone stop this madness! >:D
Yes, but notice how nice his nails look!
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 06, 2005, 02:39 PM NHFT
Look at the dangerous way the lawless thug is wielding that file!? Someone stop this madness!? ?>:D
Actually she took that picture before I was ready so I was holding the file wrong. :D
One funny thing about this photo:
The newspaper says "Mike Fisher of Newmarket demonstrates the kind of manicures he plans to administer in front of the New Hampshire board of Barbering and Cosmetology and Esthetics next week despite the threat of arrest."
The online version says "Mike Fisher of Newmarket demonstrates the kind of manicures he plans to administer in front of the New Hampshire board of Barbering and Cosmetology and Esthetics next week despite the treat of arrest."
A treat, indeed!
Several pro-liberty people have called and e-mailed me today warning me about the legal implications of this event.
My reply is this:
The harder they crack down on me and the longer they jail me for an action so harmless, the more free we will all be as a result of it.
"The hardest heart and the grossest ignorance must disappear before the rising sun of suffering, without anger and without malice."
-Gandhi
What is the punishment for it? How long in jail, how much in fines?
I daresay that many people <snicker> are shampooing each other's hair and giving each other massages without a license AS WE SPEAK RIGHT NOW. How can they police those actions? I dare them to arrest us!
>:D
I received two more pieces of mail today from the government.
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
MERRIMACK, SS.
SUPERIOR COURT
The State of New Hampshire
v.
Michael B. Fisher
Docket No. 05-E-0172
MOTION FOR VOLUNTARY NON-SUIT WITHOUT PREJUDICE
NOW COMES the State of New Hampshire, by and through its attorneys, the Office of the Attorney General, and moves that this matter be voluntarily non-suited without prejudice. In support of this motion, the State submits the following:
1. The State filed a Petition for Preliminary and Permanent Injunction with this Court on April 29, 2005. This Court issued Orders of Notice on May 3,2005.
2. The intentions of the respondent are unclear at this time.
3. The State believes that the threat of criminal sanctions may deter the respondent from his threatened unlawful activity.
4. Should circumstances change, the State reserves its right to petition the Court for appropriate equitable and legal relief.
5. The respondent was contacted and takes no position on this motion.
WHEREFORE, the petitioner respectfully requests that this Honorable Court:
A. Grant this motion;
B. Cancel the hearing on this matter scheduled for this date; and
C. Grant such other relief as the court deems equitable and just.
Respectfully submitted,
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
By its attorneys
KELLY A. AYOTTE
ATTORNEY GENERAL
Elyse S. Alkalay
Attorney
Civil Bureau
33 Capitol Street
Concord, New Hampshire 03301-6397
(603) (clipped)
CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
This certifies that the foregoing was mailed first class, postage paid to Michael Fisher, 7 Lamprey River Park, Newmarket, NH, 03857.
Elyse S. Alkalay
THE STATE OF NEW HAMPSHIRE
Merrimack County Superior Court
163 N. Main Street
P. O. Box 2880
Concord, NH 03301 2880
603 225-5501
NOTICE OF DECISION
MICHAEL FISHER
7 LAMPREY RIVER PARK
NEWMARKET, NH 03857
05-E-0172 The State of New Hampshire v. Michael B. FisherPlease be advised that on 5/05/2005 Judge McGuire made the following order relative to:
Motion for Voluntary Non-Suit; Granted05/05/2005
William McGraw
Clerk of Court
cc:
Michael Fisher
Elyse S. Alkalay, Esq.
AGC Form SUCP052 (Rev 09/27/2001)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 06, 2005, 10:22 PM NHFT
2. The intentions of the respondent are unclear at this time.
3. The State believes that the threat of criminal sanctions may deter the respondent from his threatened unlawful activity.
This is not true. I made it crystal clear to Ann Larney, in the most polite way possible of course, that I will not reconsider this event, regardless of their lawsuit. She accepted that I would not be deterred, but wanted to cancel the lawsuit anyways.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 06, 2005, 10:22 PM NHFT
4. Should circumstances change, the State reserves its right to petition the Court for appropriate equitable and legal relief.
As I explained to Ann on the phone, an injunction after the event has no effect on the event. She conceded this point but warned that it could be made more broad to apply to any similar future event.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 06, 2005, 10:22 PM NHFT
5. The respondent was contacted and takes no position on this motion.
True. She asked if I would object to the cancellation of the lawsuit and I said no. She also asked what my opinion is on cancelling it and I replied that it is their lawsuit so it's not my decision to make.
well, hell. If I was up there, I'd be first in line to get my nails done.
You're aquiring quite a large pile of paper, Mike.
Quote from: SWilliams on May 07, 2005, 01:16 AM NHFT
well, hell. If I was up there, I'd be first in line to get my nails done.
This is only the beginning.
So when are you moving to NH? :)
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on May 07, 2005, 06:41 AM NHFT
You're aquiring quite a large pile of paper, Mike.
Maybe Mike is burning all these papers....what does he care what they say? ;D
The parents called last night and tried but failed to talk me out of this event. lol
The appointment for a Gandhi tattoo is in two and a half hours. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on May 07, 2005, 08:45 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on May 07, 2005, 06:41 AM NHFT
You're aquiring quite a large pile of paper, Mike.
Maybe Mike is burning all these papers....what does he care what they say? ;D
We need them for the FSP archives, which, when the time is right, we can burn ;D
Can we get a head count on who will be showing up Monday? Mike and I will be there! ;D
This damn tattoo really hurt. It's on the underneath of my forearm. I'd take a picture of it, but the bandage is still on.
Okay... I've never had a tattoo or piercing before, so this is a first, and... uhhh... all things considered, it's pretty big.? :)
It's on the inside of the right forearm:
(http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/Tattoo.jpg)
Quote from: davemincin on May 07, 2005, 04:09 PM NHFT
Can we get a head count on who will be showing up Monday?? Mike and I will be there! ;D
I will be there.
Owww....you've started on the self-suffering.
Kira and I will also be there.
It looks like it hurts! It's kind of busy looking with the scroll thing. You will have to turn your arm and hold it still for people to read it. They won't get the message at a glance.
I once knew a guy who had a Barber Pole tatoo.
Wow thats some tattoo. I'M gonna see if I can make this. A nice Mon drive ;D
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 07, 2005, 04:32 PM NHFT
This damn tattoo really hurt.
Did you get it at a licensed tattoo parlor? ;D
Kevin
I'll be there, too. Not until a little after 12, unfortunately. And I can't stay long, I promised I'd take my kids fishing (without a license ;D ) if it's a nice afternoon.
I think I can be there if the migraine lets up.
Cathleen
It looks like I will be the only one not there :-[
JP's talking about trimming my hair to make a little money tomorrow. Will that be happening?
I might go for a minicure, but, I'll be expecting a discount due to having 9 & 1/2 fingers.
Quote from: russellkanning on April 23, 2005, 01:15 PM NHFT
Open auctions on the sidewalk....that probably is breaking some laws in itself :D
OMG, you're right.
http://www.nhes.state.nh.us/elmi/licertoccs/auctionr.htm
AUCTIONEER
Description:
Ask people to bid for articles at an auction, and then sell each item to the highest bidder. Before an auction begins, auctioneers may decide what articles are worth and arrange them in lots according to type or value. Select articles to be auctioned or let the bidders choose items they wish to bid on. Begin auctions by stating or asking for a starting bid. Describe the merchandise and may tell bidders about the history or ownership of items. Ask for bids, and sell such item to the highest bidder. Keep records of the sale and ensure that consignors are properly paid.
RSA: 311-B
Type of Regulation: Licensure
Personal:
Recommendations from two licensed resident auctioneers
Professional:
Applicant must file a bond with the Secretary of State in the sum of $10,000
Auction school certificate or apprenticeship at ten auctions except for licensed Auctioneers from states with reciprocity
Examination:
Required--offered four times per year
New Hampshire Resident License (annual) $85.00
Non-Resident License (annual) $125.00
::)
Hey all just wanted to let you know Amanda called me today, Amanda Phillips , to
ask about this and said she is going to try to make it, though she may not be able
to. She said to wish mike major kudos and best wishes and was very excited! She found out about it
from the paper but I dont know which one.
Believe one of the newspaper articles was posted on the FSP website. Perhaps you should have asked Amanda to sign onto the underground! ;)
Quote from: katdillon on May 08, 2005, 10:17 AM NHFT
JP's talking about trimming my hair to make a little money tomorrow.? Will that be happening?
Sweet jesus....JP with a sharp cutting tool in his hand! ::) You're much braver than I Lass! :)
Mike, do you want signs tomorrow? If so I'll make some before then.
I will try to be there . . . signs? I made a shirt which says ". . .
MUMMY GOVERNMEN' - OFF OUR BACKS."
Sounds good to me!
We need some ideas...
DESPITE YOUR RULES,
WE ARE FREE
WE WILL NOT
ASK PERMISSION
TO LIVE
GANDHI FOUGHT AGAINST
LICENSING LAWS
LICENSING HURTS
SMALL BUSINESSES
LICENSING HURTS
ENTRY-LEVEL
WORKERS
Thinking of, "Cut my nails, you criminal!" ;D
END LICENSING
NOW AND FOREVER
LICENSING IS
THE DOCTRINE
OF SLAVERY
LICENSING
IS NOT
NECESSARY
LEGALIZE FREEDOM
ELIMINATE LICENSING
LIBERTY IS
MORE IMPORTANT
THAN LIFE
TAKE BACK LIBERTY
REFUSE TO OBEY
LIVE FREE OR DIE
PATERNALISTIC
LAWS DESTROY
OUR LIBERTY
DO NOT OBEY
UNJUST LAWS
ASSERT YOUR FREEDOM
OR IT WILL BE GONE
I WILL NOT BACK DOWN
TO YOUR THREATS.
I AM FREE!
WE ARE FREE.
DEAL WITH IT!
SLAVE OR OUTLAW
MAKE YOUR CHOICE
THE LAW IS WRONG.
DO NOT SUBMIT TO IT.
DO NOT BE
OPPRESSED
TO THE POINT
OF SUBMISSION
Pull this sign out when they cuff me:
ARRESTED
FOR SELLING
MANICURES?
So... I can expect these 21 protest signs to be done... when? ;D
in response to the request for a head count, i will be there, 95% chance at least.
I won't be bringing anyone along though. I will have one NHfree.com sign and I think one NH flag without a staff.
Also at Kat's house there is currently one gadsden flag, one NHfree.com sign, one sign that has the word licensing on it, crossed out.
I'm assuming she is bringing those. Usually we are not overly short on signs. Kat also can you guys bring the megaphone?
O-K 154 oz of beer down the gullet, but I'M gonna take a nice snooze and get on the road to Concord.
This should be fun.
Yup, I will bring gadsen flag, etc.
Thanks!
In addition to Dave's signs, I have:
The Law is Wrong, Do Not Submit
Slave or Outlaw, Make your Choice
Jail for Manicures?
I can't be there today, but my thoughts will be with you, Mike.
Alan
Will you be bringing copies of all the paperwork the state has sent for WMUR to get pictures of?
Bringing all the phone numbers for media/outlaw-wife too :) Also handouts for people who might be interested.
As soon as my best friend gets here I am gonna sweet talk her into taking me. :) She is very interested in all this stuff and has been following it all through JP and myself anyway and this would be a good chance for her to get involved a little and get to meet you guys. I know I want to support this. Especially after watching Gandhi the other night!!
I cannot believe that you got that tattoo Mike... or well maybe I do believe it. :)
See you all there... Lord willing and the creek don't rise ;)
Annie
I'm bringing the legal papers to the event. Shaws, a block or two away from the event, will probably be my headquarters for this event. I'll go there and make some copies of the paperwork for the media and others.
Have a great time 8)
If you haven't left already, bring your original letter, and a coverpage reading in very large type "YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK" and staple or paperclip it all together.
http://www.sacbee.com/content/politics/story/12862965p-13712380c.html
Dan Walters: Lawsuit dilemma redux: Once again, a real-world problem ignored
By Dan Walters -- Bee Columnist Published 2:15 am PDT Monday, May 9, 2005
A melodrama that played itself out over two years in the Capitol, and eventually in the November election, reflected the polarized and unresponsive nature of California's political apparatus.
A real-world problem was presented to the Legislature. Some unscrupulous attorneys were conducting ill-disguised shakedowns of small businesses - auto repair shops, cafes, nail parlors and the like - by misusing the state's "unfair business practices" law. Business owners, many of them immigrants, were receiving harshly worded letters from the attorneys, threatening to sue them for big bucks for violating the law, citing some obscure and/or minor violation of state regulations, but offering to go away for payments.
...
So who is going to break the news first...NHFree.com or the old media?
You, I hope. It's been an hour and ten minutes, has not the wife given you an update yet?
Sorry, I don't have pictures but they hauled him away.
Cathleen
Did the cuff him or use a tie wrap? Did the do the little stuff the head down as they shoved him in the back seat of a cruiser thing, and did WMUR show up and tape it all?
WMUR was there filming from beginning to end. The cops took him to the other side of the car with the door open. We could not see the cuffs but , yes they held his head down and made some sort of adjustment at his back in the car. Lots of interviewing and filming. I think the cops were giving him lots of outs but he said he would not stop until forced to.
Cathleen
I have pictures, can I put them here, or will that be a drain on bandwidth?
Here are two for now. Click the thumbnail for the large image.
(http://img240.echo.cx/img240/1585/outlawmanicure56st.th.jpg) (http://img240.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure56st.jpg)
(http://img259.echo.cx/img259/2682/outlawmanicure146kb.th.jpg) (http://img259.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure146kb.jpg)
here is fine...:)
...we will just post them on the wiki so people don't have to dig through this thread later
excellent pictures
cops were giving him lots of "outs" ::)
I bet you guys were also giving them lots of "outs"....like...."you know you don't have to do this"...."let us live our lives." :)
Cool my wife is getting a manicure from an outlaw. 8)
Did the cops feel foolish?
Who sent them down?....Were they waiting for you guys?
How many manicures did he get in before the cops saved the public?
I think the cops did feel foolish. When he started, two women from the Board came out and gave him copies of the statutes. He accepted them and continued to give the manicure. I was holding signs toward the road and saw the cops pass three times before one turned in. Two ambled in from one direction and one from another. They asked Mike to step aside away from the cameras to talk. It was a fairly lengthy talk which we could not hear. Then they turned and headed to the car where he was handcuffed and driven away.
Cathleen
BTW, your wife's id was examined.
Maybe we should not have any government IDs for these kinds of things.
Why would they check a customers ID?
Did Mike just do Kat?
If the cops are working for all of us...why would they not want the public to know what they are discussing?
....to protect Mike from looking foolish or themselves?
Mike didn't mind the camera being there and he wasn't controlling what they were taping. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on May 09, 2005, 02:16 PM NHFT
Cool my wife is getting a manicure from an outlaw. 8)
Did the cops feel foolish?
Who sent them down?....Were they waiting for you guys?
How many manicures did he get in before the cops saved the public?
I didn't get up there until 12:20, he was nearly done with Kat and I was hoping to be next. I'll make a storyboard, eh?
Some of the group
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/4991/outlawmanicure1copy2cq.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure1copy2cq.jpg)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/6167/outlawmanicure3copy1ki.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure3copy1ki.jpg)
Kat getting her manicure from Mike
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/5382/outlawmanicure2copy1wa.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure2copy1wa.jpg)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/1383/outlawmanicure4copy1ul.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure4copy1ul.jpg)
I believe the police showed up around 12:30, and I *think* there were 3 of them. They were cordial. One came up to the group from behind (behind Kat & Mike) and asked to "speak with the person in charge of this organization." Mike got up and introduced himself to that officer. That officer brought Mike 20 feet away from the main group.
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/719/outlawmanicure10copy6lz.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure10copy6lz.jpg)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/48/outlawmanicure12copy8sk.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure12copy8sk.jpg)
Meanwhile, another officer approached Kat, who was still seated in the chair, and asked if he could "please speak with (her) for a minute?" Then he brought her to her car about 30 feet away so she could give him ID.
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/7651/outlawmanicure9copy9yc.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure9copy9yc.jpg)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/3187/outlawmanicure7copy9gc.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure7copy9gc.jpg)
Dave watching Kat being lead away, he quickly followed with his camera.
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/4876/outlawmanicure6copy5qs.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure6copy5qs.jpg)
The officers then lead Mike to their cruiser, parked in a side lot of the building.
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/2357/outlawmanicure13copy0cv.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure13copy0cv.jpg)
They cuffed that dangerous criminal (or maybe zip-tied, I couldn't tell) to applause and a few cheers
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/7467/outlawmanicure14copy6sz.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure14copy6sz.jpg)
Put him in the cruiser (more applause)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/4233/outlawmanicure15copy1bd.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure15copy1bd.jpg)
Hiya, Mike! He was smiling at me for this shot, but of course my digital camera gives a 1-second stall so I didn't catch his expression.
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/708/outlawmanicure17copy9ej.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure17copy9ej.jpg)
Driving away (still more applause)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/4135/outlawmanicure18copy1cd.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure18copy1cd.jpg)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/47/outlawmanicure19copy5et.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure19copy5et.jpg)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/4958/outlawmanicure20copy2bb.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure20copy2bb.jpg)
Gratuitious cute kid shot (my daughter) :)
(http://img120.echo.cx/img120/9596/outlawmanicure11copy2ba.th.jpg) (http://img120.echo.cx/my.php?image=outlawmanicure11copy2ba.jpg)
I have 20 images from this event, let me know who to send them to- these have been resized for quicker loading. I'll send the original images to whomever.
We had more willing customers. She stepped up and handed money over. Didn't quite finish, but a few of her nails look really nice.
Mike didn't mind the cameras at all. The cops didn't mind giving interviews.
Cathleen
Quote from: russellkanning on May 09, 2005, 02:44 PM NHFT
Maybe we should not have any government IDs for these kinds of things.
Why would they check a customers ID?
Did Mike just do Kat?
I think they wanted her ID so they can use her as a witness against him?
Man Busted For Manicuring Without License
Free-Stater Protests Licensing Laws
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4467723/detail.html
8)
Round of applause for Mike!
(don't drop the soap)
you can send the photos to either Kat or I
actually
russellkanning@porcupinepartners.com
would be easiest for me since yahoo is so slow with attachments. :D
man who invited the FBI agent? (Jon Bender)
Why on earth would they need Kat's ID?
They said something to the effect that I was an accomplice to his criminal act.
Mike's at:
Merrimack County House of Corrections
(Rte 3 DW Highway toward Boscawen)
796-2107
So would they have hauled off any one of the crowd?
When's the TV news supposed to be on? Is someone going to tape it?
Just saw coverage on WMUR! Interviews with Mike, Kat, Dave R. and another man (red hair, goatee, glasses?) as well as one officer.
Story said he is going to be arraigned tomorrow morning at Concord disctrict court.
Great piece!
Edited- Now we can see that it was handcuffs, not zip ties. ;D
I just saw the WMUR report. Sorry, we have no recording capability. It was fair and, as far as I know, accurate.
Cathleen
There is now some video available at the news link for WMUR:
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4467723/detail.html
Here is the building gallery (http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=22)
Just send the pictures to me at russellkanning@porcupinepartners.com and I will upload them for you. :)
Redhaired guy was Joel.
Quote from: GDouglas on May 09, 2005, 03:12 PM NHFT
Man Busted For Manicuring Without License
Free-Stater Protests Licensing Laws
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4467723/detail.html
Excellent coverage!
And Kat, who hates the telephone and won't go on the radio, wound up on TV! What a cute little voice! ;D
Kevin
http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/wnne/4467723/detail.html
http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3320119
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050509/NEWS0201/50509155
:D
great links guys
8)
I still can't believe they threw him in jail for doing a manicure.
I just saw the whole thing on WMUR 5:00 news, I wish I could have been there but my Cisco final ran late and I couldn?t get out until 12:30. I just did a search and found some more links, some of these might have already been posted but here they are. I still can't believe all of the good press that this got, I was actually concerned that this would get over looked :o.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/hampton/05062005/news/41050.htm
http://www.northcoastus.com/north_coast_online/2005/05/no_manicure_bef.html
http://nhindymedia.org/newswire/display/2318/index.php
Hey LiveFree...pleasure meeting you! :)
Understand the AG office will be consulted, as to whether to arrest Kat! ::) You
notty Lass! >:D
Thinking if they do, she should get a discount...heck....only got 2 nails done! >:(
Mike called from jail. He's doing OK and will be arrigned at 11:00 tomorrow morning. He said he didn't need any of us there tomorrow.
http://www.team4news.com/Global/story.asp?S=3320119
http://www.kvia.com/Global/story.asp?S=3320119
I"m having my mom record the news at 11 in TX to see if they're showing it, or just reporting online.
http://www.boston.com/news/local/new_hampshire/articles/2005/05/09/free_stater_busted_for_manicuring_without_a_license/
Quote
"I just shake my head" said Dalton of Fisher's crusade against licensing. "He's not talking about small business, he's specifically talking about, 'I don't feel that you need a license to work on something.'"
Dalton talked about being trained to recognize signs of diabetes in feet. I'm sorry, but if I went to get manicure, I would expect a manicure, not a diagnosis of diabetes.
Quote from: KBCraig on May 09, 2005, 05:19 PM NHFT
And Kat, who hates the telephone and won't go on the radio, wound up on TV! What a cute little voice!? ;D
Not knowing this, we managed to get her on the radio tonight: http://freetalklive.com/files/FTL050905A.mp3 .. I feel special now!
Hey, you guys did a GREAT job with the signage. NHFREE.COM is
all over that WMUR package!
I'm impressed. Keep kicking ass and taking names.
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=54506
Here's the Concord Monitor:
http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/N/NH_MANICURE_ARREST_NHOL-?SITE=NHCON&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT
WKBK Keene is announcing on their local news every hour about Mike's arrest.
Quote from: katdillon on May 10, 2005, 03:15 AM NHFT
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=54506
BTW, this Union Leader article is in the center of the front page with headline and picture ABOVE THE FOLD.
Headline above the fold is "Manicuring Without a Licence." The second pic that they show on line is the main picture in the paper - about 4.5 X 6 inches.
. . . Then a second headline "Clipping penlty" and the other picture (about 1.5 X 2 (below the fold).
Russel, I'll send some pics at the end of the week, when I can get to a good computer . . .
Lots of photos up:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=22
So anybody try to visit Mike yet?
The wonders of managing to do this on a relatively slow news day. Great work!
http://www.citizen.com/May2005/05.10.05/news/concord_051005a.asp
Both Dan Mitchell and Eric have talked about it on WKBK.
Quote from: davemincin on May 09, 2005, 06:59 PM NHFT
Hey LiveFree...pleasure meeting you! :)
Hey Dave! It was a pleasure meeting you as well! And all the rest of the group, though I got few names. I recognized some faces though.
Another story in the Telegraph this morning, with a larger image.
http://www.nashuatelegraph.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050510/NEWS02/105100060/-1/news
I can't believe they arrested our friend for filing nails. :o
Free Mike Fisher!
[/size][/color]
I wonder if there is any news. :)
I will call the jail in a little while. He was supposed to be arraigned at 11:00.
I called the courthouse. They said the info hasn't been sent "up" yet and that court is still in session. If someone else wants to try after lunch, call the Concord District Court (603) 271-6400.
I went into Corner News today on Main St., in Keene, and talked with the owner who had read about Mike. His repsonse:
"This is outrageous! Pretty soon you will need a license to BREATHE in this country!"
I said:
"Well, that's part of the reason the Free State Project is coming here..."
His response:
"I know! I'm totally for it! I am with you guys!"
:D
Think this may be resonating with the many small business people here...... Allies, allies. Always more allies........ :D
JM
Quote from: jgmaynard on May 10, 2005, 12:31 PM NHFT
Think this may be resonating with the many small business people here...... Allies, allies. Always more allies........ :D
I hope so! Great to hear things like this, especially coming from small business owners.
Two things that need to be done now for anyone who is interested (IMNSHO):
1) Like Jason said on the FSP forum, [lots of] LTE's supporting Mike
2) We talked once about running ads for the FSP in business magazines, especially in VT, Mass and Maine. This could be a focal point. Something like "Business forecast for NH: Bright, and getting brighter"
JM
Well, I was just inspired to order a copy of Gandhi.? Way to go Mike and everyone who supported him.? The media coverage was excellent!
I can't wait to hear Mike's story about what it's like to be incarcerated for buffing fingernails.
There is one more thing to do and it is the most important one. We need to pay Mike's fine for him. He took one for us and we owe him big time. As poor as we are, I am sending him a check today.
Mike Fisher
7 Lamprey River Park
Newmarket, NH 03857
It's the least we can do.
Cathleen
I am pretty sure he does not want us to pay any fines for him. Read "Civil Disobedience" and you will understand. He also didn't want to be bailed out or plead "not guilty".
Paying the fines is paying off the bully.
What if they fine him $1,000,000?
They can't - it's a misdemeanor - $1000 max fine.
JM
They could add charges or make it more expensive next time. :-\
They want to inflict pain.
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4472328/detail.html
and the twin
http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/wnne/4472328/detail.html
Thanks, Jon! Was about to try and call again.
Here's the article from the Keene Sentinel:
Free-Stater busted for manicuring in protest
CONCORD ? A young self-taught manicurist who said he was inspired by the movie ?Ghandi? manicured without a license outside the state licensing office Monday, earning himself a date in court and a trip to jail.
Michael Fisher had advertised his protest and planned to get arrested to call attention to what he considers needless obstacles facing small-time entrepreneurs. Among them he counts the requirement to get a license from the state Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics.
?These types of restrictions, anything that gets in the way, deter or kill businesses,? he told the Exeter News-Letter for a story published Friday. ?People who just start a business just want to do it.?
Fisher said he and his wife moved from Burlington, Vt., to Newmarket last year to start a home-based computer troubleshooting business.
(photo)
MANICURE MANACLES ? Concord police officer Michael Pearl arrests Mike Fisher for giving a manicure in front of the state Cosmetology Board office Monday in Concord. Fisher, a member of the Free State project, was demonstrating against the government requiring a license to give a manicure.
ASSOCIATED PRESS
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: JonM on May 10, 2005, 02:55 PM NHFT
http://www.thewmurchannel.com/news/4472328/detail.html
and the twin
http://www.thechamplainchannel.com/wnne/4472328/detail.html
We should work to get rid of this judge. He should have just accepted Mike's plea and kept his mouth shut. How does he know what effect this will have on the law?
The guy's freakin name is Italian slang for wine!
LMAO, and a damned nasty wine, to boot!
I totally agree- how the hell can he predict what outcome this will have on the law, especially considering what has gone before from the IJ regarding hair braiding? :::thwack:::
Mike's home. Expect he will be around in a bit to tell his story.
Mike is home :o
Excellent 8)
Quote from: davemincin on May 10, 2005, 05:25 PM NHFT
Mike's home.? Expect he will be around in a bit to tell his story.
Did he tunnel out,or did our grand protecters let him out. ;D
When I was driving back to Keene on 9, I picked up radio 610 am they were talking about Mike's protest.
Uhhh, guys...
The court sentenced me to 32 :o :o :o days, 30 of which are suspended for 1 year pending a minor violation like even a freaking speeding ticket that I will inevitably get.
The court even told WMUR Channel 9 that I would be in jail until my birthday, which is tomorrow, and which makes sense to me.
However, the jail was filling up and they may have "accidentally" let me out a day early.? I think it was no accident.? ?The COs (Corrections Officers) were very friendly with me.? ;)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 10, 2005, 08:21 PM NHFT
Uhhh, guys...
The court sentenced me to 32 :o :o :o days, 30 of which are suspended for 1 year pending a minor violation like even a freaking speeding ticket that I will inevitably get.
The court even told WMUR Channel 9 that I would be in jail until my birthday, which is tomorrow, and which makes sense to me.
However, the jail was filling up and they may have "accidentally" let me out a day early. I think it was no accident. The COs (Corrections Officers) were very friendly with me. ;)
Welcome back, Mike!
So... just when do you plan to break probation? Or are you just going to use this as a springboard, a bully pulpit, to harangue the General Court about these silly laws?
Oh, and if I'd thought of it ahead of time, I'd have advised you to address the jail staff as "Hey, CO?" Some get rather irritated at being called "guard".
Kevin
32 days in jail for a manicure!!!!
Land of the free?
Thanks Mike for showing how little it takes for the state to send men with guns out to make you obey or be jailed .
It should scare the crap out of any thinking person.
Yep. Filing nails without permission is Class A Misdemeanor!!! :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
Hi Mike, Glad your out of the hoose-gow. This response by the state is totally unbelievable. That lady from the board is making a complete fool of herself. She thinks it is SOOOO important to protect us from ourselves. GET A LIFE LADY!!!!!
Welcome back to the world of the semi-free, Mike. I think everyone is wondering... what's next?
OMG, my wife recorded this as my birthday present yesterday around 2pm, probably while I was cuffed in the police car on route from the police station to the jail:
Amethyste Fisher - No One Like You (http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/af-noonelikeyou.mp3)
:)
Too bad you couldnt postpone trial for a year so by that time Id have passed the bar in NH and could work on defending you and trying out some of my jury nullification techniques I have been researching. Id like to see that judge tell a jury that your method to change the law was pointless.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 10, 2005, 10:02 PM NHFT
OMG, my wife recorded this as my birthday present yesterday around 2pm, probably while I was cuffed in the police car on route from the police station to the jail:
Amethyste Fisher - No One Like You (http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/af-noonelikeyou.mp3)
:)
Very nice. 8)
You've got yourself one heck of a wife, Mike. Talented, too!
Mike made the News in TEXAS!!!
http://www.kltv.com/Global/story.asp?S=3320119
JP
Union Leader Editorial! :o :o
http://www.theunionleader.com/articles_showfast.html?article=54541
Danger!
Unlicensed manicurist on the loose!
FEAR NOT, gentle people of New Hampshire. Mike Fisher has been apprehended. For the time being we can rest easy knowing that this man is unable to file another fingernail without the proper credentials.
On Monday two Concord police officers arrested Fisher for manicuring without a license. In New Hampshire, it is illegal to give someone a manicure unless you have first graduated from high school or obtained your GED, ?(h)ave completed a course of at least 300 hours of professional training in manicuring, in a school approved by the (state Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics) and passed an examination conducted by the board? or, as an apprentice in a salon, received experience equivalent to the 300 hours of schooling.
Of course women and girls give themselves and their friends manicures every day, and the police have better things to do than spy on slumber parties. What got Fisher arrested was his civil disobedience. He demonstrated the absurdity of the law by setting up shop outside the state licensing office and giving a friend an illegal manicure.
Fisher, a Free Stater (you remember them, right?), said he moved to New Hampshire from Vermont to open his own computer business. ?It?s hard in Vermont to start a business,? he told the Exeter News-Letter. ?In New Hampshire, it was just a $50 fee and a trade-name registration.?
Except, if you want to start one of any number of small businesses heavily regulated ostensibly for health and safety reasons, you are out of luck.
The state Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics allegedly exists to ensure the health and safety of people who use barbers, cosmetologists and estheticians. (In case you are wondering, state law defines an esthetician as ?any person practicing esthetics.? Basically, it?s a beautician.) Really, though, the board exists to decrease competition among barbers, cosmetologists and estheticians by restricting the supply of new practitioners.
Consider that under state law, doing any of the following without a license is illegal:
?Beautifying the face, neck, arms, and shoulders, by use of cosmetic preparations, antiseptics, tonics, lotions, or creams. . .?
?Massaging, cleansing, or stimulating the face, neck, arms, and shoulders, by means of the hands, devices, apparatus, or appliances, with the use of cosmetic preparations, antiseptics, tonics, lotions, or creams. . .?
?Providing pedicure services. . . beautifying the foot, and massaging, cleansing, or stimulating the foot by means of the hands, devices, apparatus, or appliances, with the use of cosmetic preparations, antiseptics, tonics, lotions, or creams, trimming or filing the toenails, and polishing the toenail. . .?
?(A)rranging, dressing, curling, waving, cleansing, cutting, bleaching, coloring, or similarly treating the hair of any person . . .?
?Giving facial or scalp massages or treatment with oils, creams, lotions, or other preparations, either by hand or mechanical appliances . . .?
?Shampooing, arranging, dressing, or dyeing the hair or applying hair tonics . . .?
?Applying cosmetic preparations, antiseptics, powders, oils, clays, or lotions to scalp, face, or neck, or removing superfluous hair from the face and neck of any person. . .?
If, without a state license, you or your friends do any of those activities in the privacy of your own home, you are breaking the law.
Surely there is a small need for some minor health regulations on barbers, cosmetologists and estheticians. But to classify everything they do as unhealthy or unsafe if not done by a high school graduate with hundreds of hours of training is plainly absurd.
Great editorial! The voice of the people is being heard. Yes!!!!!!
OMG!!! I have never seen anything like this before in my life! You guys are the best! I can't freaking believe this!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't believe we pulled off every aspect of our plan and lived to tell about it! ;D
Thank you so much! ALL OF YOU! THANK YOU, KAT for putting your freedom on the line to be my customer. Thanks, Dave for driving me around. Thanks to everyone for taking the risk to come and support this illegal event and for creating signs for it - some excellent signage I might add!
This is out of control!!! :o :o
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 10, 2005, 10:02 PM NHFT
OMG, my wife recorded this as my birthday present yesterday around 2pm, probably while I was cuffed in the police car on route from the police station to the jail:
Amethyste Fisher - No One Like You (http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/af-noonelikeyou.mp3)
:)
WOW um just WOW
Mike, WE are the people thanking YOU. Thank you, you freedom lover. Shorty would have been proud of you. He probably would have bought you a few brown ales. If your wife hadn't of beat him to it, I heard Mad Mountain Jack was going to write a song for you. He still might. Maybe "THe Outlaw Mike Fisher".
(http://www.unionleader.com/doclib/cartoons/2005/511cartoon.gif)
Awesome Job Mike! Sorry my car broke down on the way up to Concord :-(
Thanks for doing this.
JP
Well, this just keeps getting better and better. You are AWESOME Mike!.
Now if the news cycle slows down again and talk show radio hosts nationwide decide this is worth getting Mike on to talk about, wooga.
WOW! Thank you Mike!!!! Hip Hip Hurray!
btw, the Union Leader gave this editorial as much space as they normaly use for two. And a great the great cartoon to . . . a smiling Free Stater who is "considered extremley pleasent".
You Are The Man!
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 10, 2005, 10:02 PM NHFT
OMG, my wife recorded this as my birthday present yesterday around 2pm, probably while I was cuffed in the police car on route from the police station to the jail:
Amethyste Fisher - No One Like You (http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/af-noonelikeyou.mp3)
:)
OMG Mike! She's a keeper :)
Seeing as how you thought of the idea .....and pulled it off just the way you had planned it ..."Civil Disobedience" style..........how do you want to continue this particular issue?
Could this have gone any better for Mike's first act of noncooperation with evil laws?
BTW are there any fines ....and are you going to pay them?
How did it go in jail?
http://nomoremister.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_nomoremister_archive.html
Scroll down a little to see the entry about Mike.
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Activists+to+Defy+State+Licensing+Laws
I've tried to list all the media coverage. There's been a lot.
About cosmetology in NH:
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/04242005/business/38859.htm
QuoteSenior citizen Arlene Kaufman of Portsmouth has her hair cut and an occasional manicure at both clinics.
"On (a) fixed income, $35 or more plus tips at a commercial salon is a budget buster," she said. "At either establishment, haircuts cost around $6 for seniors. The students are capable and there is always an instructor nearby to check on the progress of the cut. It sometimes takes a bit longer, but I?ve got the time."
Imagine! People might want an unlicensed haircut because it's cheaper!
QuoteFor students looking to enter the field, training at either facility involves 1,500 hours of study and hands-on practice over a period of about a year, with tuition on or about $9,200. There is an additional expense for an equipment kit that includes tools of the trade and five wig mannequins.
That's a lot of money! But luckily, it sounds like you can get financial aid from the government (to comply with gov't regulations) :o :o
What ever you're going to do next, should be done while the iron is still hot.... so what's next?
Should we do more things for the cosmotology board and push them over the edge.....or do something else in the licensing world?
The way that department and AG overreacted....maybe we should just keep pushing them. :D
Hello,
This is Amethyste - Mike's wife.
I am writing this quick message for you so you can maybe think about what has been going on for me while this whole thing happenend.
I work as a manicurist - so for my husband to get arrested for doing what I do to make money at the moment ( on top of that I am supporting the both of us while he's starting his own business DOING MANICURES AND PEDICURES ) has added lots of stress on me and my employment with my my employer at the moment. Yes, you have all reached what you wanted: attention to the matter. But for me, it is more of negative attention than positive. I remember going through the whole problem of getting my license transfered from VT to NH, I do understand what you guys are doing and trying to UN-do, but in this case, the choice of manicures to demonstrate that the law is wrong, was not a wise choice in my opinion, is has spomewhat jeopardized my core mean of living .
Second, I *need* my husband home, working hard on his business and making money. THat's where I THINK he should be concentrating his effort. For him to be in jail or not home to answer the calls when people need him to fix computesr is a let down in my eyes. I have given up a lot for him to start his business ( moved, invested money in his franchise, stopped playing music etc... ), that being said, being in jail is NOT helping the situation. I do want to start my business as well one day and right now I need a strong husband and I need him here with me, caring for our home and our imminent future. You cannot build strong relationships, loving and caring lives if you are constantly worried about what your husband is doing and mostly, where he is at and if he'll come home at night. My home is with him here with me... Not away from me. I am not THAT strong, I cannot hold the fort by myself. Aside of my little gripes and complaints, I am a worrier by nature, so this whole thing has taken a lot away from me. Mostly, Michael is married: this implies that priorities have changed and while I am supporting him in what he does, I am finding myself in a web of conflicting interests and feelings. I am sure you all understand what I am trying to say...
I think Michael was a very heroic person that day for going strongly for what he believes in. I think for the next event, he should be pasing down the flag to someone else that want to help. If you were in my shoes, you would understand where I am coming from.
I love my husand with all my heart. So you all know that I am still here and even if I dont post at all, I do read about what is going on...
-=Amethyste
MODIFIED TO SAY: Mike rocks! He's my hero.... I love you sweetie. Please take this with a grain of salt. I trust you to make the best decision when it comes to our family. remember? " MAKE GOOD DECISIONS!" ;)
Civil disobedience is good for freedom but sometimes bad for the disobeyer. I urge everyone who can to help Mike and Amethyste by making him the guy who fixes your computers - he's done a great job for me in this regard.
I will probably try to post a letter to the editor in one of the seacoast papers urging all readers to do the same, if there are no objections.
Thank you, Amythyste, for putting up with all of this!
http://portsmouthherald.com/news/05112005/news/41652.htm
5/11
Guilty for no license
By Elizabeth Dinan
edinan@seacoastonline.com
Just sprung from jail for filing fingernails, Mike Fisher agreed his new arrest record falls into the category of lame.
As he returned to his Newmarket home Tuesday, following an overnighter in the Merrimack County Jail, Fisher, 23, reflected on his Monday arrest for giving a manicure without a license.
The public filing of his friend?s fingernails using a disposable emery board was planned as a protest against state licensing laws. After posting advance notice of his demonstration on various Web sites, including that of New Hampshire Underground, Fisher began filing the nails of his friend, "Cat," at about 2:20 p.m. on Monday, he said.
His act of civil disobedience, disguised as a manicure, occurred in front of the Concord office of the state Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics, the board that governs nail salons.
A member of the Free State Project, Fisher said police showed up immediately, as they and the state attorney general?s office also had advance warning of the public protest.
PHOTO
Concord Police Officer Michael Pearl arrests Mike Fisher for giving a manicure without a license in front of the office of the state cosmetology board on Monday.
AP photo
"I?ve been practicing and looking at sanitary procedures," said Fisher. "So I wasn?t clipping cuticles, because that takes a little skill."
He said police then warned him to stop and suggested there were better ways for him to make his point that government regulations are too numerous and prohibitive to small-businesspeople like himself.
"I said, ?My views are too extreme for the Legislature to consider,?" Fisher said, continuing to ignore the police?s warnings to stop filing Cat?s nails.
It was then that police placed him against a car, patted him down, cuffed him at the wrists and hauled him off to jail for the night - all according to Fisher?s plan.
So, too, was refusing to post the $30 bail, in favor of spending the night in a 10-foot by 15-foot cell with "five to 10" other inmates, then to sleep on a floor using his blanket as a pillow and going without a blanket for the night.
According to the overnight prisoner, he was arraigned by video at 11 a.m. on Tuesday before a judge at a remote location. After pleading guilty, Fisher was sentenced to 32 days in jail, with 30 of them suspended and one served.
"They were full, so they let me out," he said of the jail, having served one day short of his full sentence.
Fisher said he wasn?t hungry his first day there, so he refused the offer of a meal. On Tuesday, he dined on a ham and cheese sandwich on white bread, with Jell-O for dessert.
And he made some friends.
"Everyone was nice," he said. "One corrections officer said he heard about me on the radio on the way to work. Even the people in jail with me were nice. I gave out my number to a couple of them."
Fisher moved to New Hampshire after learning of the Free State Project?s efforts to move members en masse to the Granite State as part of a group effort to reform and relax governmental laws.
Fisher, a computer programmer, said he hasn?t yet been contacted by the Tonight Show.
So can Kat file a complaint or something for the cops ripping her off? She paid for a manicure and they stopped it.
Didn't Mike choose civil disobedience...didn't he also choose to do manicures?
Maybe our next act of civil disobedience will be done by a single guy or maybe somebodies wife will volunteer him. 8)
I am very proud of the way Mike pulled this off. :D
If Russell gets too obnoxious, we can just have him be the next jailbird :)
Amethyste, I just wanted to say that I do understand what you are saying. Thank you for being supportive of Mike, even though it has caused trouble for you. I agree that it is time for others to step up. I don't think that Mike needs to push the state to greater wrongs against him in order to keep up the momentum; in fact I think that getting into too much of a pissing contest with the state will often be counterproductive.
It seems to me that what is needed now is a strong effort 'within the system' to remove the protested licensing laws, perhaps accompanied by a lot of other people going to the same extent that Mike did. Maybe an official 'unlicensed manicure' day where hundreds of people gather to give unlicensed manicures. An effort to work within the system to get rid of licensing only needs to establish a couple of things:
1. It isn't okay for the state to limit what kinds of services I provide to another free, consenting adult.
2. It isn't okay to keep an unjust law simply because it creates jobs or has become a tradition.
3. There are perfectly effective, private, non-coercive ways to help 'protect' people from incorrect or unsanitary beauty services.
Those three points obviously lead into a lot of other libertarian issues as well, and this is a great campaign to start getting them into the minds of the people of NH. I am not in NH yet, but I want to promise right now that I will help however I can in any effort to repeal the protested licensing laws. Now that we have some attention and a great opening line (Did you know that someone was arrested last week for giving a manicure?) let's get rid of this law by working within the system!
Finally Amethyste, it really is too bad that this particular cause would be financially bad for you if it were to succeed. My wife used to work for the city government where I live in WA, and I often ran into similar conflicts. However, I have almost always started out more scared of the effects of freedom than I needed to be. There are always new opportunities that come along with new freedom, and I doubt that this is an exception.
Phil Denisch sent a little poem:
From: "Philip Denisch (CBIZ MTDonahoe)"
To: "Kat Dillon (E-mail)" <Bookish_Lass@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:20:03 -0400
From manus-hand and cura-care,
A stout dorsatii braved the air,
Air that smelt of nanny breath,
Is clipping same as cooking meth?
Keene Sentinel printed this today:
Manicurist gets two days in jail
CONCORD ? A computer repairman from Newmarket will spend two days in jail ? including his 24th birthday ? after pleading guilty Tuesday to giving a manicure without a license, a criminal misdemeanor.
Michael Fisher says he planned to get arrested Monday for manicuring without a license outside the headquarters of the state Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics.
Fisher is a member of the libertarian Free State Project, which has chosen New Hampshire as its staging ground for a political movement promoting minimum government and maximum personal freedom. He and his wife moved from Burlington, Vt., to New Hampshire last year.
Fisher says his act of unlicensed manicuring was intended to draw attention to what he considers needless government-imposed obstacles facing small-time entrepreneurs. State law demands that all professional manicurists be licensed.
Judge Thomas Grappa and Prosecutor Scott Murray said Fisher would make better use of his time lobbying the Legislature to change the law, rather than continuing his protest manicures.
I wonder if they think it is right to have licensing laws for manicures?
If they do...then why would we follow their advice.
If they don't ...then why do they keep prosecuting people for it and jailing them.
....the judge and prosecuter
Who are you talkng about?
Quote from: ethanpooley on May 11, 2005, 12:07 PM NHFT
Amethyste, I just wanted to say that I do understand what you are saying. Thank you for being supportive of Mike, even though it has caused trouble for you. I agree that it is time for others to step up. I don't think that Mike needs to push the state to greater wrongs against him in order to keep up the momentum; in fact I think that getting into too much of a pissing contest with the state will often be counterproductive.
It seems to me that what is needed now is a strong effort 'within the system' to remove the protested licensing laws, perhaps accompanied by a lot of other people going to the same extent that Mike did. Maybe an official 'unlicensed manicure' day where hundreds of people gather to give unlicensed manicures.
A follow-up event with dozens or hundreds of people selling manicures for $1?
The explosion of coverage would be UNBELIEVABLE!!!
As long as everyone learns the basic sanitary procedures, practices significantly beforehand, learns the major nail conditions to watch for, only files and buffs nails, properly prepares for any possible injuries, and carefully gives manicures
ONLY to someone they personally know and trust, and was fully prepared for any important safety questions from the press... it would work! ?It would take a couple of weeks to prepare, train, and learn, but we're a smart group of people, and it wouldn't be that hard to pull off. ?It only takes minutes to learn. ?And a day in jail's not bad, especially with friends! ?;)
Yes, I know it's a little suffering and a lot of risk, but
this type of follow-up would be FREAKING AMAZING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!No, I'm not asking anyone to do this, but I'm just saying...
What a wonderful birthday present THAT would be!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ? :)
Here's a quick intro to nail conditions:
http://www.emedical.com.au/default.asp?pageID=5&TopicID=204
http://www.hooked-on-nails.com/naildisorders.html
And sanitary manicure procedures:
http://www.medicinenet.com/script/main/art.asp?articlekey=21574
http://www.sterilizers.com/articles/Nail.asp
http://www.healthsuperstore.com/articles/beauty-tips/Tips_for_manicure.asp
There are many more resources available. ?Just go buy a simple basic manicure without polish or artificial nails and see what they do - that's the way I learned. ? ;D
As long as absolute safety is practiced, I would strongly support such a thing. :)
Oh man, that was disgusting.
http://www.hooked-on-nails.com/naildisorders.html
Quote from: katdillon on May 11, 2005, 12:15 PM NHFT
Phil Denisch sent a little poem:
From: "Philip Denisch (CBIZ MTDonahoe)"
To: "Kat Dillon (E-mail)" <Bookish_Lass@yahoo.com>
Subject:
Date: Tue, 10 May 2005 16:20:03 -0400
From manus-hand and cura-care,
A stout dorsatii braved the air,
Air that smelt of nanny breath,
Is clipping same as cooking meth?
NICE! ?:)
Quote from: katdillon on May 11, 2005, 01:56 PM NHFT
Oh man, that was disgusting.
http://www.hooked-on-nails.com/naildisorders.html
That was pretty gross. I'm glad, only some of my toenails are green and not my fingernails! I dropped a sheet of plywood on one of the green ones today, so, maybe, I've got a hematoma.
I think for most of those diseases, even an Anarchist Manicurist, who was an idiot, could suggest to their customer, "you oughta have that looked at"
Too much information, Lloyd :'(
Could they arrest you for just buffing someone else's nails?
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on May 11, 2005, 02:21 PM NHFT
That was pretty gross. I'm glad, only some of my toenails are green and not my fingernails!? I dropped a sheet of plywood on one of the green ones today, so, maybe, I've got a hematoma.
Like I said right before they arrested me... you should probably have those looked at by a dermatologist! ?;)
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on May 11, 2005, 02:21 PM NHFT
I think for most of those diseases, even an Anarchist Manicurist, who was an idiot, could suggest to their customer, "you oughta have that looked at"
So what are you saying? ?:'( ?;D
Quote from: JonM on May 11, 2005, 02:50 PM NHFT
Could they arrest you for just buffing someone else's nails?
For money? Yes.
Isn't that what they arrested you for?
Yep, all I did was:
-Rub in cuticle oil.
-File 10 nails.
-Buff and polish 2 nails.
And then the wonderful, light-handed government stepped in to protect us from the impending doom of completing the manicure. :)
I guess we'll be on Gardner Goldsmith about 5:20.
How about we just have a bunch of us buffing or hand massages ..... it would be even more silly arresting people when we don't even have a file or something abrasive in our hands.
If you think it would work out well Mike......then we should plan it again. I bet we could get a dozen people to join in. I better just rub some oil in or something. 8)
Can you picture those ladies faces pressed against the window if the whole crowd is participating not just looking on? :D
I also could not have a single scrap of ID on me.....I could cooperate as they haul me in....I just wouldn't have any ID on me. :)
http://amanda42.livejournal.com/
Alright I can't stand it anymore.....tell us everything that happened Mike...please.
I hate to get all my news through the media.....and if I call you up and repeat it....I might change something. :(
If too few people are willing to do what it takes to do a follow-up noncooperation event, then at least some serious lobbying would be welcome. :)
I don't want anyone to be mad at us for breaking the law, I just wanted to bring the subject up for debate, and it worked!
Rather than asking me what to do, why doesn't everyone just say what they think would be a good follow-up? We aren't a group to follow orders, or even to follow by example. We are each leaders of our own lives with our own lights to follow! ;)
Any objections to or suggestions regarding this article I have composed for the Herald?
Dear folks at the Herald:
Thanks much for your insightful coverage of the "outlaw manicurist." Mike Fisher has made his point well: In a free country, you should not need the government's permission to start a business.
However in order to get his voice heard, Fisher has had to take serious risks. This simple act of filing a friend's nails without a license jeopardized his business, his record and his home life. If you appreciate what he did...please do what I am doing. Support his business.
Mike owns Computer Troubleshooters of the Western Great Bay, a small computer repair shop in Newmarket. I use him as my repair guru whenever practical; he has never let me down, and if you do the same I suspect he will never let you down either.
Mike defied an unjust law so that your children would someday have the right to start *their* own business without inteference from the government. Patronizing his company seems the least we can do, those of us who appreciate his sacrifice.
Quote from: katdillon on May 11, 2005, 12:53 PM NHFT
Keene Sentinel printed this today:
Manicurist gets two days in jail
The same mini article appeared in the Telegraph.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 11, 2005, 05:45 PM NHFT
Alright I can't stand it anymore.....tell us everything that happened Mike...please.
I hate to get all my news through the media.....and if I call you up and repeat it....I might change something. :(
I'm not sure what you want to know, but sure... I'll just start spouting off stuff. ?Let me know when you're annoyed. ?;)
The two police led me over and away from the crowd. ?I shook both of their hands and thanked them for coming. ?LOL ?They were extremely surprised.
When the police asked Dave Ridley to go away, Dave Ridley said "you do have a right to say that, unfortunately." ?The police started to debate with me on the merits of this event and more.
(paraphrasing)
Officer Mike Pearl: ?"Do you understand the law? ?Do you know that you are breaking the law?"
Then I go look for Dave Mincin who's holding the law book the State Inspectors gave to me beforehand, open it up, and read it to the police.
Officer Mike Pearl: ?"You don't think this is dangerous? ?What about doing this outdoors? ?Is that safe? ?Why do you think everyone else does manicures inside?"
Me: "Probably because of the weather. ?I've never read any regulations talking about doing this indoors."
Officer Mike Pearl: ?"You think this is safe? ?What about diseases and infections?"
Me: ?"blah blah blah I researched sanitation procedures and nail conditions, blah blah blah" ?lol
Then the Sergeant comes over and starts listening.
Officer Mike Pearl: ?"Why don't you lobby to change the law? ?
Me: ?"I've tried everything and it doesn't work. ?I see petitioning and asking legislators as pointless begging, and nobody listens anyways. ?It doesn't work."
Sergeant: ?"I have to disagree with you there... you know... lobbying really has a big effect on laws."
Me: ?"Perhaps it doesn't work for me because my views are too extreme for people to accept."
Then they all nod in agreement.
Officer Mike Pearl: ?"You know it's our job to enforce the law..."
Me: ?"Yes, I understand that it is your responsibility to enforce it even if you don't agree with it."
One of the officers asks me if we're trying to pull a fast one on them. ?I said, "no, this is about systems and laws, not people. ?One of you could lose your job if I did that. ?I would not do that." ?I showed them the $1 Kat gave me for the manicure. ?They asked if I was the organizer of this protest and, if I'm arrested, will someone else take my place and start doing something. ?I said, "no, I don't think so."
Pearl pulls out a court summons that appeared to have been filled out beforehand.
Officer Mike Pearl: ?"Okay, this is a court summons. ?Now you have a date to appear in court. ?Even if we arrest you, this date isn't going to change. ?Now will you stop?"
Me: ?"Unfortunately, no. ?I've made a promise to everyone that I will not stop until forced to stop."
Sergeant talking to Officer Pearl: ?"Alright... ?Do it... ?Take him in."
Then Officer Pearl asks me if I have anything else to bring and says it will slow down the booking process a lot if there are many items in my possession, so I should leave it with someone else. ?I turned around and asked if anyone would take them home for me and Brian Pellerin volunteered to do it. ?I shook his hand and thanked him.
The police then started to lead me over to the vehicle. ?Adam yelled "let him go!" jokingly so I turned sideways and said "Come on, please be polite." ?I hope Adam was not offended by this.
On the way there, I said to Officer Pearl, "this is all about systems and laws, not people. ?You know those protestors that refuse to even cooperate with the police and lay down when you try to arrest them?" ?He said, "yes." ?I replied, "I think that's absurd. ?This is about systems and laws, not people." ?He agreed.
They led me over to the police car and Officer Pearl said "now come around here and put your hands on the car please."
He then took everything out of my pockets, patted me down, cuffed me, and started to ask about the quality of my Nextel service in Concord when he saw my mobile phone. ? ;D ?He asked if I had anything concealed, any weapons or anything. ?I even had to give him my belt and hair tie. ?bleh ?The prisoners later told me they only take your hair ties about half the time, so two of us made some out of torn pieces of blanket later that night in jail.
The police did NOT recite my Miranda rights, if I remember correctly. ?Only a CO (corrections officer) in the jail did later that afternoon. ?The prisoners told me that's not necessary anymore, but I was pretty damn sure it is.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 11, 2005, 06:33 PM NHFT
Any objections to or suggestions regarding this article I have composed for the Herald?
Dear folks at the Herald:
Thanks much for your insightful coverage of the "outlaw manicurist."? ? Mike Fisher has made his point well:? In a free country, you should not need the government's permission to start a business.
However in order to get his voice heard, Fisher has had to take serious risks.? This simple act of filing a friend's nails without a license jeopardized his business, his record and his home life.? ?If you appreciate what he did...please do what I am doing.? ?Support his business.?
Mike owns Computer Troubleshooters of the Western Great Bay, a small computer repair shop in Newmarket.? I use him as my repair guru whenever practical; he has never let me down, and if you do the same I suspect he will never let you down either.? ?
Mike defied an unjust law so that your children would someday have the right to start *their* own business without inteference from the government.? Patronizing his company seems the least we can do, those of us who appreciate his sacrifice.
Thanks, Dave! However, I really do not want any such benefits from this event. My wife was upset earlier this morning when she posted that letter, but she supported me before the event and I believe she still supports me now. She was having a bad morning because FIVE different friends of hers called and told her that what I did was the most stupid thing I could have possibly done.
I cannot stop you from doing what you want, Dave, but please do not submit this letter or anything similar to any media. I do not want this to be about me. I want this to be about the issue of licensing only. I'm sure you understand and you're just trying to help. :)
sent this to channel 9 via their input box at http://www.thewmurchannel.com/contact/index.html
I couldn't find the news director's name on your website but please make sure he/she gets this:
Dear folks at WMUR:
Just wanted to thank you for documenting Mike Fisher's anti-licensing protest on Monday. Don't get me wrong; I'm not accusing you of giving him a free ride! :) But your reporter and her photographer did a great job covering this first major foray into civil disobedience by a Free Stater. They were both very pleasant to speak with.
If only all political conflict and media-public interaction were this enjoyable and civilized!
Should you wish to remain in the loop regarding this particular ongoing story and other newsworthy freedom-related activities, just keep one eye on the forums at NHfree.com. Most of what we do is planned in the open there, and that is probably the place where you will get first wind of things that are about to happen.
I look forward to seeing your crews again and will endeavor to help ensure that events we invite you to are always worth the trip.
Yours,
Dave Ridley
NHfree.com
OK understood Mike; that is the reason why I posted the message here for feedback. I will still probably write an LTE related to this protest but not mentioning your biz.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 11, 2005, 07:28 PM NHFT
OK understood Mike; that is the reason why I posted the message here for feedback.? I will still probably write an LTE related to this protest but not mentioning your biz.
Thank you. :)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 11, 2005, 07:04 PM NHFT
The police did NOT recite my Miranda rights, if I remember correctly. ?Only a CO (corrections officer) in the jail did later that afternoon. ?The prisoners told me that's not necessary anymore, but I was pretty damn sure it is.
Q. At what point are police required to inform a suspect of their Miranda rights?
A. After a person has officially been taken into custody (detained by police), but before any interrogation takes place, police must inform them of their right to remain silent and to have an attorney present during questioning. A person is considered to be "in custody" anytime they are placed in an environment in which they do not believe they are free to leave. Example: Police can question witnesses at crime scenes without reading them their Miranda rights, and should a witness implicate themselves in the crime during that questioning, their statements could be used against them later in court.
Is there any chance that a 'friendly' rep would take on this issue for us? Anyone know one?
I mean if that rep would start after the licensing laws then think of how many people he could have work on his/her campaign.
Quote from: Dreepa on May 12, 2005, 12:21 AM NHFT
Is there any chance that a 'friendly' rep would take on this issue for us?? Anyone know one?
I mean if that rep would start after the licensing laws then think of how many people he could have work on his/her campaign.
Sounds like a persuasive sales pitch... you scratch our back...
In addition to LTE's we need to contact the NH Reps and Senators. We need a Rep to step up and submit legislation to repeal these ridiculous requirements.
BTW, did you know Varrin's wife is not allowed to put makeup on other people (she runs a Mary Kay business) without a cosmetology license/degree? Absurd!
Mike made the Liberator Online newsletter:
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-index.php?page=Liberator+Online
Mike, you mentioned interacting with other prisoners. What did they ( The Guys on the Group W bench) say when you told them what you were?
OK with regard to the idea of a mass manicure...here are some pros and cons that ran through my mind about it.
Pro:
Of all the ideas I've heard, it follows most closely the historical precedent set by Gandhi's followers during the "salt rebellion." Gandhi made salt, then a bunch of his supporters did the same.
It would build on the current momentum Mike has generated, giving a sense of snowballing.
It should be easy to generate pre-publicity
This has proven to be an issue that resonates with the public and media
Con:
A follow up protest would require quite a few people to be really successful, ideally five or more willing to do what Mike did and able to show up that day.
If turnout at the follow up protest is less than at the original; that would be a problem.
Not sure what we would do *after* such a mass protest
It takes time to change the law, even if everyone in the legislature wanted to. So we probably could not expect to see quick change as a result of this second protest
It tends to lock us into a fight against one bad law rather than making the point that we are against all kinds of bad laws
Normally I tend to like the idea of a "war of movement" better than sending all your troops to defend a position you've occupied. Would it be more effective to have one person disobey a totally different law?
Not sure....
Overall I think maybe the pros outweigh the cons a bit.
A big thank you to Varrin for providing the fodder for my letter to the editor published in today's Union-Leader!
What's it say?
Quote from: katdillon on May 12, 2005, 06:33 AM NHFT
BTW, did you know Varrin's wife is not allowed to put makeup on other people (she runs a Mary Kay business) without a cosmetology license/degree?? Absurd!
Yeah! At my work, they wanted me to start putting on people make-up to increase THEIR product sales... I am no fool. I said no way! I dont want to pay a fine and lose my manicurist license. Besides, I don't have a clue on how to apply make-up, they would have looked like Krusty the Clown in the end...
I want to BET you $100 that the ladies at the make-up counters in the big stores like Penneys or Sears DO NOT have a license. It's funny, though, they still apply make up and spray us with perfumes until we look and smell like french whores!
-=Amethyste
(http://a284.g.akamai.net/f/284/987/12h/lygo.com/ly/wg/e/ss/simpson30.jpg)
Hey hey! After three open-heart surgeries and a pacemaker... This ain't makeup!!
Quote from: Amethyste on May 12, 2005, 08:53 AM NHFT It's funny, though, they still apply make up and spray us with perfumes until we look and smell like french whores!
(http://www.cocolabelle.com/IMM/DivineLink.jpg)
Tsk! Watch what you say about French Whores, honey![/b]
Thanks for the info Mike....I had wondered what the cops were thinking.
So what did the cosmo board do and say?
What was it like for your one day in jail? I might be there soon.
Here's the text of my LTE published today in the Union-Leader:
===
To the Editor, for publication:
Under New Hampshire law, to become a licensed manicurist requires 300 hours of coursework at a government-approved school, and passing a government-administered practical and written exam. Becoming a licensed barber or cosmetologist requires 1,500 hours of coursework and 3,000 hours of apprenticeship within 18 months.
Under FAA regulations to obtain a a Private Pilot license, 40 hours total flight time are required, or 35 hours if you go to an approved flight school. Twenty of those hours must be flown with an instructor. You must also pass the private pilot written exam, for which there is no minimum amount of classroom instruction - you can do it entirely through independent study.
Demanding 300 hours of classes to be licensed to trim & polish fingernails, or 1,500 hours to be licensed to trim hair or apply makeup; versus 40 hours plus enough study to pass an exam to fly an airplane.
Does this make sense to anyone except the Board of Cosmetology?
===
Oh that so rules. Good work mvpel, just wish they published LTEs online.
Very funny 8)
Contact information:
New Hampshire Board of Barbering, Cosmetology, and Esthetics
http://www.state.nh.us/cosmet/
Board Member Contacts
http://www.state.nh.us/cosmet/bdmem.html
List of State Approved Tanning Training Facilities (None of them are located in New Hampshire)
http://www.state.nh.us/cosmet/documents/ApprovedListofTrainingCoursesContacts.pdf
Quote from: mvpel on May 12, 2005, 09:14 AM NHFT
Demanding 300 hours of classes to be licensed to trim & polish fingernails, or 1,500 hours to be licensed to trim hair or apply makeup; versus 40 hours plus enough study to pass an exam to fly an airplane.
Does this make sense to anyone except the Board of Cosmetology?
ROFLMAO!!!!!!!!
BTW, here is what Varrin said about the liberator online article:
"I believe Liberator Online is the largest circulation
email list of pro-liberty people in the world. I considered at one
time buying advertisements in here for the FSP. This article is worth at
least a handful of ads (maybe more)... that's hundreds of dollars worth."
I'm loving the unintended consequences of what Mike did :)
Quote from: katdillon on May 12, 2005, 10:10 AM NHFT
BTW, here is what Varrin said about the liberator online article:
I'm loving the unintended consequences of what Mike did :)
While I hesitate to speak for Mike, do not believe the national press, as well as the positive attention brought to the FSP was an unintended consequence, but part of the plan.
My personal believe is you folks are the best thing to FSP has going for it! Our activity offers hope for freedom, and the more we do, and the more folks hear about we are doing, the more folks will consider joining us. Consider all the super NH folks who have
helped in our efforts.
It's not nuclear science, just getting the word out, and heads up to you Mike for your effort, but would be remiss to not also thank all the folks who showed up in support.
Just hoping the folks keep comming, because we sure as hell can use there help! :)
Quote from: davemincin on May 12, 2005, 10:28 AM NHFT
you folks
You were there too, Dave....no denying it :P
So in order to be trained to tan people in NH the state makes you go to FL, MI, or 2 places in AZ?
If a person from NH goes to AZ in the middle of winter, they could receive a nasty sunburn just getting to the authorized training facility. ;D That is completely irresponsible of the state board to do that.
I'm thinking like Dada and the follow-up should be something different. Since my brief brush with the police and seeing how Mike was treated, I've also been thinking that I could go to jail for a while. Also thinking more along the lines of just doing what we want as long as we're not hurting anyone and ignoring the law....as opposed to staging something.
When I was contemplating moving to NH, one of the things I was thinking of doing was opening a massage business (just that, not a sex business). When I looked into the licensing laws, I got totally turned off of doing it. It cost way too much money to complete the training courses required. So one of the things I've been contemplating is opening up this business without the license.
This is from the front page of the boards website (in red letters):
Any one offering Tanning needs to register immediately! You need to immediately file the application and $45.00 with the Board. You need to be actively pursuing and signing up for a class to become a certified operator. Please contact a provider on the approved list posted on this web page to find out the cost, in addition to the dates and times they will be coming to New Hampshire to provide training.
The public hearing on June 6, 2005 is regarding the rules posted on the web page. The law requiring tanning facilities to be registered cannot be changed or addressed by the Board.
Do you get the feeling there could be people not registering? >:D
This could be my thing........oh the trainers will come to NH to do tanning training.....that is good news. 8)
I like the massage idea. You could just move forward with it and see what the state does. :D
You could have a ready made clientele of anti-government regulation liberty lovers.
If you had no ID to show them and were an unlicensed massage therapist......that would be almost assure you of a brush with the law.
Later we can move on to selling liquor 8)
You guys and girls should do what you feel is your calling rather than listening to me. ;)
If there's one thing I've learned from this, it's that we each need to find our own path and followit, and consulting a third party is not necessary when we feel very strongly about it.
It also really worked well to follow the example of Thoreau and Gandhi. It was good to see you walk off with the police and not get beaten or your face ground into the asphalt. 8)
But there will be plenty of variety in how everyone does things here and I wouldn't want to get in anyones way as they fight for liberty.
Would it be good to get away from the particular manicure angle...(partly because someone we know has a license)....but continue pushing that one state board, since all of their licensing rules are soooo ridiculous?
Tim's response to this editorial:
FYI, sent to the Portsmouth Herald in response to their Wednesday editorial: http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/05112005/editoria/41681.htm
Your May 11th editorial "This licensing law is one we can live with" is poorly written and misses the point entirely.
Someone at The Herald must have really been incensed by Michael Fisher's peaceful act of civil disobedience. Actually, not someone but everyone on your Editorial Board, as the generous use of "we" throughout the hastily written editorial implies. Unfortunately, as is often the case, haste makes waste and this editorial is a complete waste of paper, ink, and your readers' time.
First, it looks like the result of a Jr. High School writing assignment. Were you worried that you would insult us or go over our heads if you actually did research on your own and cited factual evidence that would support your opinion? Did you opt for a string of one word sentences because bullet points would have been too obvious? Maybe next time you could use a USA Today-type bar chart indicating the percentage of laws that are good versus bad. As one reader aptly put it, it's a good thing you don't need a license to write an intelligible editorial because this wouldn't have made the cut.
Second, I believe the point of Michael Fisher's act was less about this particular law and more about the thousands of federal, state, and local laws like this that attempt to micromanage the minutia of our lives. Your writer doesn't see the forest for the trees. If The Herald had been covering Gandhi in the 1920s the editorial would have read "What's Wrong with English Clothes?"
You cite a procedure on how to clean a cut that the licensee is required to know. I'm sure this is a relief to the millions of parents across the country who have been cleaning cuts since their children were born. Shouldn't they be licensed too? The editorial goes on to say that we would expect most manicurists would follow these rules whether they are licensed or not, but it doesn't hurt to make sure. Yes, it does hurt. You and I, and everyone in the country spend billions of dollars, wait countless hours, and lose hundreds of lives each year because of excessive regulation. Regulation Magazine, which you can find at CATO.org is just one of the publications that brings this issue to light. This law, and many, many like it are unnecessary uses of the legislature's time and the public's money.
In this case, if someone would like to voluntarily get certified by an industry association, which they can proudly advertise in order to charge more and generate more business, then no one is stopping them. However, they should not be forced into this type of certification or licensing. If two consenting adults want to voluntarily enter into a business transaction, whether it be a manicure or otherwise, they should be free to do so without government intervention.
To paraphrase your editorial: Sometimes the government is heavy handed, sometimes it is an annoyance, and sometimes it can be downright dangerous. This is true, and the problem is that everyone's definition of these terms is different. This is why our country and state were founded on the principal of erring on the side of personal liberty. This is clearly outlined in the Constitution and Bill of Rights. Your editorial board should read them sometime.
Tim Myles
Quote from: davemincin on May 12, 2005, 11:01 AM NHFT
Tim's response to this editorial:
:o :o :o
NICE!!! :) Thanks!
Excellent LTE Tim. ?8)
Wow, great letter!
So the Portsmouth herald had a horrible editorial and the Union Leader did a great cartoon and a favorable editorial.....hmmmmmm
Looks like people should just skip the herald and go straight to the Leader. :D
Posted here: http://www.livejournal.com/users/amanda42/387716.html?view=3033732#t3033732
This is Mike Fisher.
Sorry we missed you there, Amanda. It was a blast!
Thanks to everyone for their help in bringing attention to this cause.
Regarding the health concerns of manicures... I was well-aware of these issues before performing the manicure on Kat. As a matter of fact, it only took about 30 minutes to find the information on Google so I knew what to watch for. I even refused to manicure someone at the event because he had a nail condition that I identified - splitting and peeling layers.
I even have a nail condition called Leuconychia, but it is only the presence of small air bubbles under the nail caused by doing hard work with my hands, particularly the computer business I run, and it is not contagious.
Before performing the manicure on Kat, I made sure that she had no nail or skin conditions. I also followed all normal sanitary procedures, which also required only minutes to research on Google.
There are very few contagious conditions, and the sanitary procedures are extremely simple. There is no evidence to support any HIV or hepatitis infections EVER being transmitted through manicures according to my research, but it is still theoretically possible.
Besides, all I did was file and buff Kat's nails before they arrested me. A full french manicure is not easy at all and I do not have the skills necessary or the knowledge of the chemicals involved, but it wouldn't be that difficult to learn, and it sure wouldn't require $5,000+ worth of school to learn it.
It's also funny how the cosmetology schools are half of the people pushing for these laws. Gee, I don't know why they would do that. In any case, entry-level workers and entrepreneurs are seriously hurt by these restrictions.
It's too bad that so few people understand how fragile small businesses really are. If they did, they would never support such restrictions - instead, they would depend on professional reputations and optional private sector certifications when making their buying decisions.
Caveat Emptor. Buyer Beware. It's wisdom as old as time, but the government takes such responsibilities away from us with laws like this. Then they wonder why people have no sense of personal responsibility.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 12, 2005, 10:43 AM NHFT
Later we can move on to selling liquor 8)
That's what I'M talking about.
So which laws do you want to fight first, Russell? State or Federal?
That would be a great way to get young people interested in our movement... if we could abolish the drinking age, it would likely become less popular amongst teens...
Quote from: katdillon on May 12, 2005, 10:36 AM NHFT
I'm thinking like Dada and the follow-up should be something different.? Since my brief brush with the police and seeing how Mike was treated, I've also been thinking that I could go to jail for a while.? Also thinking more along the lines of just doing what we want as long as we're not hurting anyone and ignoring the law....as opposed to staging something.?
When I was contemplating moving to NH, one of the things I was thinking of doing was opening a massage business (just that, not a sex business).? When I looked into the licensing laws, I got totally turned off of doing it.? It cost way too much money to complete the training courses required.? So one of the things I've been contemplating is opening up this business without the license.
I like it! ?You a quite a brave woman, I have to say.
My only problem with this is the public perception of secretly running an unlicensed massage business. ?The public perception would be extremely negative unless you inform everyone beforehand and perhaps make everyone sign something before their massage stating they understand that you are NOT licensed with the state. ?That way, there would be no victims.
You would be extremely vulerable to lawsuits if you sell massages to people you do not know. ?Even people you think you know sometimes turn against you for personal gain, or even for no reason whatsoever. ?That happened to my wife only yesterday. ?A woman we THOUGHT we could trust told my wife's employer that my wife was looking around for a new job. ?We have no idea why she did it, but she was one of those people who whine and complain about everything, so we should have seen that coming. ? ::)
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on May 12, 2005, 06:55 AM NHFT
Mike, you mentioned interacting with other prisoners. What did they ( The Guys on the Group W bench) say when you told them what you were?
Are you kidding? They loved it!!! lol
The prisoners were laughing their butts off when I told them that we did this on purpose right in front of the government Board that enforces the law. Paul O'Conner, who was in jail for the 15th time, this time on $50,000 bail for failure to pay child support, said I'll probably be known as a "legend" there. They loved it even more when I told them how much media attention it received and how it made the system look tyrannical.
Every time a new prisoner was put in the room with us, we'd ask him what he's in for, and when he asked me why I'm there, everyone would start laughing and we couldn't stop. There was a group of people, probably convicted of DUIs, receiving a tour of the jail to scare them into submission, but we were laughing so much we joked that they probably want to join us. LOL
Oh man, it was hilarious!
They asked what my bail was and laughed even more when I told them I was only in jail because I refused to pay $30 bail. LOL
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 12, 2005, 11:53 AM NHFT
My only problem with this is the public perception of secretly running an unlicensed massage business. The public perception would be extremely negative unless you inform everyone beforehand and perhaps make everyone sign something before their massage stating they understand that you are NOT licensed with the state. That way, there would be no victims.
Yes. I was also thinking that there was a problem with actually making a profit. Wrong or not, I think the perception would be more negative.
(Speaking of the group W bench) Can anyone else TOTALLY picture this story to the tune of "Alice's Restaurant"? ?;D
JM
Fellow Prisoners
Moses Yen - Driving without license. ?Brought to the USA by the United Nations. ?A "UN Citizen" brought here by Michael O'Keefe. ?Has been jailed for many, many months, transferred between jails, and did not know why he's still in jail. ?Hardly speaks any English. ?After I talked to him about independent living and freedom, he just wants to return to Sudan to live a simple life and live off the land, if he ever gets out.
Paul O'Conner - Failure to pay child support, $50,000 bail. ?Has been in jail 15 times, from when the prison opened to this very day as the jail is about to close down. ?Has stopped breaking the law, but they keep jailing him repeatedly for child support even though his children are grown adults. ?He can only be free if he has a job and a place to live, but they won't free him long enough to get a job. ?The only reason he found a place to live is because he kept running from the government long enough to find an apartment, but not a job yet.
Joshua ? - Petty theft, repeat offense, $250 bail. ?Stole $4 worth of beer. ?Wants to get out of jail and change his life. ?May contact the NH Underground when he gets out.
John ? - Driving a snowmobile without registration, 7-10 days in jail. ?Helped friend repair the spark plugs on his snowmobile, tested it out for 5 minutes, and was jailed for driving it with no registration.
Brian ? - Violating restraining order, $2,500 bail. ?Called police on his drunk girlfriend for breaking into his house, then sent to jail when she claimed he invited her in.
? Sergeant - Violated the community service conditions of "The Academy". ?Was tested for drugs. ?May be imprisoned for 2-5 years.
? Harvey - A homeless man that turned himself in to save his own life from his drinking habit. ?Stool was black. ?Was sick all night. ?COs refused to give him his medications during his detoxification period. ?Almost died from drinking too much. ?Was doing well after 1 day of detoxification.
? ? - Jailed on many drug charges. ?Violated parole. ?Pulled over for something simple, his friend bailed out of the truck and got away, but left his drugs in the truck. ?This story was verified by another prisoner who heard it on the police radio on the way to jail.
? ? - Violated the requirements of "The Academy" by going to a hospital for a week. ?"Dead Meat" tattoo on his fingers.
? ? - Violated the community service requirements of "The Academy".
? ? - Violated probation? ?Showed up for a scheduled breathalizer test but could not breathe hard enough because of his smoking habit. ?The guy testing him was being really mean to him, so he said he couldn't do it and called his attorney, but the tester called the police faster and he was jailed immediately.
Women
? ? - Arrested for unknown reason but was extremely drunk. ?Was screaming, yelling, slamming things around, and tearing up the front office because the government took her child away. ?Was strapped to "The Chair" and taken to "The Hole" for 12 hours to calm her down. ?After her video arraignment, she wiped her tears away and laughed her butt off when I told her why I was in jail.
At least you brought amusement to some people's lives. 8)
I thought they "starved off the land" in Sudan.
Good stories, Mike. Those cops are really "protecting" the community. ::)
Was there anyone there who was in for committing a violent act?
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 12, 2005, 12:51 PM NHFT
Was there anyone there who was in for committing a violent act?
No.
All the experienced prisoners agreed on one point. The purpose of jail and prison are to keep the "undesirables" out of society. The more stuck up this country becomes, the more people are caged, and the longer their sentences.
Quote from: mvpel on May 12, 2005, 08:31 AM NHFT
A big thank you to Varrin for providing the fodder for my letter to the editor published in today's Union-Leader!
...wich was the First One on the opinion page. ?The UL titeled it "Cosmetology board doesn't make any sense".
Quote from: russellkanning on May 12, 2005, 10:40 AM NHFT
I like the massage idea. You could just move forward with it and see what the state does. :D
You could have a ready made clientele of anti-government regulation liberty lovers.
I know I need a massage.
I've only had one in NH >:( (while at a fundraiseing event :)) . . .but, I "FORGOT" to ask if we had government permision. Can I get in trouble for that?
I somehow managed to extract the video from WMUR's website for archiving purposes. Everyone please feel free to send copies of any pictures, videos, or anything else related to my arrest. I'd like to have copies of it if possible.
Thanks!
fisherm6@comcast.net
Mike Fisher
7 Lamprey River Park
Newmarket, NH 03857
Did you see all of these?
http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/tiki-browse_gallery.php?galleryId=22
Anyway, one minor glitch in the cronology above: ?the handcuffs were aplied before ?the contents of Mike's pockets were all taken and placed on the trunk of the police cruiser (the cronological order of my pictures confirms this) . . .
One thing that has gone unnoted is that after Mike was taken away and we (suppoters and media) were still in the lot, two police vehicals pulled out from the back off the lot and drove away. I have pictures of that to. ?(Just backup I suppose.)
You must have been the focus of attention that day......you know how rough those manicurist can get.
Mike, I have about 75 pics (even a few good ones) from Monday. You wiil have them soon.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 12, 2005, 01:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 12, 2005, 12:51 PM NHFT
Was there anyone there who was in for committing a violent act?
No.
All the experienced prisoners agreed on one point.? The purpose of jail and prison are to keep the "undesirables" out of society.? The more stuck up this country becomes, the more people are caged, and the longer their sentences.
Correct. My lady looks at the arrest records for Sarasota Country on a regular basis. They sure aren't locking up the rich and priviliged. Most people are in for non-violent "crimes". It's sickening.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 12, 2005, 10:46 AM NHFT
If there's one thing I've learned from this, it's that we each need to find our own path and followit, and consulting a third party is not necessary when we feel very strongly about it.
Hummmm... THat's not what you told me yesterday.
He's lying, he said he would consult me before doing something somewhat radical next time... Or am I dreaming? ;)
Quote from: Amethyste on May 12, 2005, 04:51 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 12, 2005, 10:46 AM NHFT
If there's one thing I've learned from this, it's that we each need to find our own path and followit, and consulting a third party is not necessary when we feel very strongly about it.
Hummmm... THat's not what you told me yesterday.
He's lying, he said he would consult me before doing something somewhat radical next time... Or am I dreaming? ;)
heh-heh. SWMBO speaks!
Kevin
Quote from: Amethyste on May 12, 2005, 04:51 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 12, 2005, 10:46 AM NHFT
If there's one thing I've learned from this, it's that we each need to find our own path and followit, and consulting a third party is not necessary when we feel very strongly about it.
Hummmm... THat's not what you told me yesterday.
He's lying, he said he would consult me before doing something somewhat radical next time... Or am I dreaming? ;)
I don't think you are in the "third party" category :)
I married someone as radical as me....she just isn't as loud. :D
Yes, that meek little voice and soft giggle can be deceiving.
Cathleen
Teehee
Lloyd, you know who needs one of those get out of jail free cards?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 12, 2005, 12:33 PM NHFT
Fellow Prisoners
Moses Yen - Driving without license. Brought to the USA by the United Nations. A "UN Citizen" brought here by Michael O'Keefe. Has been jailed for many, many months, transferred between jails, and did not know why he's still in jail. Hardly speaks any English. After I talked to him about independent living and freedom, he just wants to return to Sudan to live a simple life and live off the land, if he ever gets out.
Paul O'Conner - Failure to pay child support, $50,000 bail. Has been in jail 15 times, from when the prison opened to this very day as the jail is about to close down. Has stopped breaking the law, but they keep jailing him repeatedly for child support even though his children are grown adults. He can only be free if he has a job and a place to live, but they won't free him long enough to get a job. The only reason he found a place to live is because he kept running from the government long enough to find an apartment, but not a job yet.
Joshua ? - Petty theft, repeat offense, $250 bail. Stole $4 worth of beer. Wants to get out of jail and change his life. May contact the NH Underground when he gets out.
John ? - Driving a snowmobile without registration, 7-10 days in jail. Helped friend repair the spark plugs on his snowmobile, tested it out for 5 minutes, and was jailed for driving it with no registration.
Brian ? - Violating restraining order, $2,500 bail. Called police on his drunk girlfriend for breaking into his house, then sent to jail when she claimed he invited her in.
? Sergeant - Violated the community service conditions of "The Academy". Was tested for drugs. May be imprisoned for 2-5 years.
? Harvey - A homeless man that turned himself in to save his own life from his drinking habit. Stool was black. Was sick all night. COs refused to give him his medications during his detoxification period. Almost died from drinking too much. Was doing well after 1 day of detoxification.
? ? - Jailed on many drug charges. Violated parole. Pulled over for something simple, his friend bailed out of the truck and got away, but left his drugs in the truck. This story was verified by another prisoner who heard it on the police radio on the way to jail.
? ? - Violated the requirements of "The Academy" by going to a hospital for a week. "Dead Meat" tattoo on his fingers.
? ? - Violated the community service requirements of "The Academy".
? ? - Violated probation? Showed up for a scheduled breathalizer test but could not breathe hard enough because of his smoking habit. The guy testing him was being really mean to him, so he said he couldn't do it and called his attorney, but the tester called the police faster and he was jailed immediately.
Women
? ? - Arrested for unknown reason but was extremely drunk. Was screaming, yelling, slamming things around, and tearing up the front office because the government took her child away. Was strapped to "The Chair" and taken to "The Hole" for 12 hours to calm her down. After her video arraignment, she wiped her tears away and laughed her butt off when I told her why I was in jail.
Sounds like the vast majority of your cell-mates have no business being in jail.
Tracy
Well, the $4 theft is violent. At least in the formal definition of NAP it's considered force. That said, what's he doing in jail? Force him to work for free for the victum or something. Did the victum of the theft even get his/her money back?
Tracy
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 12, 2005, 01:00 PM NHFT
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 12, 2005, 12:51 PM NHFT
Was there anyone there who was in for committing a violent act?
No.
All the experienced prisoners agreed on one point. The purpose of jail and prison are to keep the "undesirables" out of society. The more stuck up this country becomes, the more people are caged, and the longer their sentences.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 12, 2005, 06:01 PM NHFT
I married someone as radical as me....she just isn't as loud. :D
No.... But she DOES burn more things.. LOL ;D
JM
Well....we heard Mike Fisher on taxpayer radio....it went well.
So I guess Mike is going to watch his ps and qs.......so some of the rest of us will have to be the troublemakers.
Maybe we should go for some ID protesting....that is something that everyone can participate in after the ball gets rolling.:)
I sent the Union Leader editorial to Dvorak and he put it up on his blog today :)
http://dvorak.org/blog/
He's got a huge geeky following.
You know, if the next person who does something like this pleads not guilty, more press coverage at trial time!
Okay, guys and girls, I've figured out what I'm going to do if my 30-day sentence is triggered by a minor traffic violation.
I'm going to fast if my 30-day jail sentence is triggered.? However, it will NOT be a fast against anyone or any system, it will be a fast of solace and hope.? I blame no one but myself for getting into this position, so I would have no choice but to fast as a solace for my own soul.
Gandhi would pray and fast as a solace for his own soul.? He would never fast against almost anyone or any system or law because it would be an act of violence in his eyes.? He would fast against loved ones for their sins in order to melt their hearts, but for no other reason, because only loved ones would react in this way.
A few Gandhi quotes on this subject:
"This is purely as a solace for my own soul, and for no other reason."
"My religion teaches me that whenever there is distress which one cannot remove, one must fast and pray."
"True nonviolence should mean a complete freedom from ill-will and anger and hate and an overflowing love for all."
"I little knew then that the remedy was to be this prolonged fast. And yet I know that the fast is not prolonged enough for quenching the agony of my soul."
"I should be deeply hurt if my fast made either community surrender on a matter of principle. My fast is a matter between God and myself."
"Friends would deem it their duty to prevent me from undertaking the fast. Such things are not matters for consultation or argument."
"There is no other way... I launched non-co-operation. Today I find that people are non-co-operating against one another, without any regard for nonviolence. What is the reason? Only this, that I myself am not completely nonviolent. If I were practicing nonviolence to perfection, I should not have the violence I see around me today. My fast is therefore a penance. I blame no one. I blame only myself. I have lost the power where-with to appeal to people. Defeated and helpless I must submit petition in His Court. Only He will listen, no one else."
Quote from: JonM on May 12, 2005, 08:57 PM NHFT
You know, if the next person who does something like this pleads not guilty, more press coverage at trial time!
FIJA! FIJA!!
I don't think that he'd get a jury trial even if he pled not guilty.
When did Mike call his wife a third party?......his wife just joked about it.....that to me is a sign of a good marriage......at least that is what I keep telling myself every time my wife zings me with a good one. ;)
It is easier for a single guy to do this....or if the couple can agree that this is a good idea.....that is why Kat and I have been talking about it for a couple of months. :)
I like your fasting idea Mike.....if they threw you in for 30 days.....it would not be a starvation fast or anything. :)
My wife is not a third party. We have been married for 6 years as of July 24th. She is the best part of my life. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on May 13, 2005, 07:32 AM NHFT
I like your fasting idea Mike.....if they threw you in for 30 days.....it would not be a starvation fast or anything. :)
Unfortunately, a person that weighs 110 pounds like I do cannot fast for more than 2 or 3 weeks without dying.
I suspect that was Russell's sick humor.
You are going to drink water right?
Gandhi was even smaller than you and he went for quite a long time.
Don't Muslims fast for like 40 days each year?
Well I'm reluctant to get too deep into advice-giving when i'm not the one fasting but....if you're probably not going to fast all 30 days it would presumably be best to say that before the fast starts (so you don't appear to be backing off when you stop. )
the fast is a great idea though....notice how some of the media reported how you refused the first meal you were offered.
Mike just your plan to do this "in the event of arrest" could be newsworthy:
Outlaw Manicurist Vows Fast if Jailed
I do not want to announce this to the media. If they find out on their own, that's fine, but "Outlaw Manicurist Vows Fast if Jailed" sounds like a threat, and would probably feel like a threat to many people.
I would not fast to prove a point or to be freed. I would fast because of the enormous distress that I could not remove. My wife and business may be gone if I'm jailed for a month, and I could not handle that, so I would be extremely distressed by it, and I would only blame myself. I would only fast for as long as it takes to relieve that distress. The object of this fast would be limited by the extent of the pain. It could be a fast of up to two weeks.
Let's just wait and see what happens rather than making a big deal out of it when nothing has happened yet. At least I now know how to relieve the sorrow I would feel if jailed for so long because of my own actions.
Woohoo, I've received two $50 donations so far! :)
Are you trying to tell Dada to not make a big deal about something?........I think he waits poised over a keyboard to send all good news out to 40 websites at a moments notice. ;D
Quote from: russellkanning on May 13, 2005, 09:17 AM NHFT
You are going to drink water right?
Gandhi was even smaller than you and he went for quite a long time.
Don't Muslims fast for like 40 days each year?
Yes, I'll consume water and salt to stay alive. ?It is necessary to drink a lot of water when fasting for more than a week, even if it is nauseating. ?When coming out of the fast, you start with simple fruit juice for a little while and go from there. ?It would be interesting to learn more about how this is done just incase it is necessary.
My research suggests Gandhi weighed 105-112 pounds at any given time. ?I weigh 110-115, so I should be able to handle 1 week with no problem, 2 weeks with some problems, and 3 weeks could be risking death, but it's possible as well. ?A 3-week fast would be a once or twice in a lifetime event, and would only be done for an extreme purpose.
I was thinking he was like 80 lbs. ....have you seen how short that guy was?
We just watched a documentary about him. I thought the narrator/journalist said 80.
So if you went to jail for 30 days....your marriage would be over? :o
Quote from: russellkanning on May 13, 2005, 10:21 AM NHFT
So if you went to jail for 30 days....your marriage would be over? :o
I would hope not, but my wife would be in very serious financial danger, and the possible result of 30 days in jail would be unknown.
It is big isn't it......this crazy tilting at windmills.
What did they pledge in the Declaration of Independence ... "our lives our fortunes and our sacred honor"?
Quote from: russellkanning on May 13, 2005, 09:17 AM NHFT
You are going to drink water right?
Gandhi was even smaller than you and he went for quite a long time.
Don't Muslims fast for like 40 days each year?
You're thinking of Ramadan - the fast is only from sunup to sundown during that month, and there's usually a meal taken before dawn and a convivial feast each evening, and a three day holiday & feast at the first day of the following month - Id-al-Fitr (the Feast of Fast Breaking).
http://www.dailyfreepress.com/media/paper87/news/2004/10/25/News/Ramadan.Feast.Draws.300-779597.shtml
Exactly.
Now that I think about it, I may need to fast for up to a week if the result of Myrtle Woodward's battle is too much to bear. ?I would not have much choice, considering that all other options are nearly exhausted.
Gandhi's Fasts and Reasons
http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Indian_hero/Gandhi/g_fast.htm
Gandhi's Arrests and Imprisonment
http://www.gurjari.net/ico/Indian_hero/Gandhi/arrest.htm
Can someone put me in touch with the Woodward family so I can find out their status and discuss their options with them?
One common method of fasting includes drinking fruit juices, which removes much of the health dangers but doesn't change much else.
Quote from: ethanpooley on May 13, 2005, 11:09 AM NHFT
One common method of fasting includes drinking fruit juices, which removes much of the health dangers but doesn't change much else.
Unfortunately, that is not a true fast. :-\
Hey Mike, of course it is your call, but my thinking is family always comes first!
Perhaps after things die down a bit, take a bit of a low profile, and most of all
stay out of jail! ;)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 13, 2005, 11:05 AM NHFT
Can someone put me in touch with the Woodward family so I can find out their status and discuss their options with them?
Okay, I just e-mailed her about it. Hopefully she will welcome my support. There are few options left for her. :(
From the front page of the Exeter Newsletter today:
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/exeter/05132005/news/42145.htm
Hanging up emery board
By Johanna Maranto
newsletter@seacoastonline.com
NEWMARKET - Mike Fisher said this week that he is "satisfied" with the results he received from his illegal manicure in Concord Monday, and said he plans no further action.
Fisher was given a 30-day suspended sentence Wednesday after he pleaded guilty to the criminal misdemeanor of providing manicure services without a license.
Fisher was arrested Monday when he manicured a friend?s nails without a license in front of the state Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics offices in Concord.
Fisher, a free-state advocate, said his actions received the radio, television and newspaper coverage he had wanted. "I hope people are debating this issue, considering if these licensing laws are necessary," he said.
Fisher gave the public manicure in a planned act of civil disobedience, in order to protest licensing laws that he believes infringe upon civil rights.
Fisher said the judge Wednesday made a point of telling him that if he gets even so much as a traffic ticket in the next year, he will go to jail.
Fisher said he was amazed that he received such a large sentence for such a minor offense, especially in light of the fact that it was made clear to the judge that Fisher had no prior criminal record. Fisher said 30 days was the maximum sentence for his crime.
If Fisher were to be jailed for 30 days, he said it would jeopardize his new computer trouble-shooting business, as he would be unable to pay the bills if he couldn?t work. Because he feels the sentence is unwarranted, he may consult an attorney to see if the sentence can be appealed.
Meanwhile, a petition for an injunction against his planned action, filed by the attorney general?s office last week and then withdrawn, was not reinstated before his action on Monday.
The petition says, "The state believes that the threat of criminal sanctions may deter the respondent from his threatened unlawful activity ? " Fisher said the petition was drafted following a conversation he had with the attorney general?s office. "I said to them ?yes? - 15 times in a row - ?yes, absolutely, I will go through with it.?" Fisher said.
Fisher cannot understand how this response could have been interpreted as being unclear. The attorney general?s office declined comment.
Although some of his friends are planning to follow up his action with sanctioned political activities toward changing the laws, Fisher is finished.
"The only reason I came to Concord was to make a point. I?ll follow up with nothing. I just wanted people to talk about this. I don?t have a further plan," Fisher said.
Quote from: davemincin on May 13, 2005, 01:29 PM NHFT
Hey Mike, of course it is your call, but my thinking is family always comes first!
Perhaps after things die down a bit, take a bit of a low profile, and most of all stay out of jail! ;)
Agreed.
I do not believe that a prolonged fast would harm my family or business, but they do come first!
What would be the steps necessary in NH to get rid of the cosmetology licensing laws? Do we have to get a politician of some sort to propose it?
Quote from: ethanpooley on May 13, 2005, 01:54 PM NHFT
What would be the steps necessary in NH to get rid of the cosmetology licensing laws? Do we have to get a politician of some sort to propose it?
Yes. It will take a while.
Quote from: ethanpooley on May 13, 2005, 01:54 PM NHFT
What would be the steps necessary in NH to get rid of the cosmetology licensing laws? Do we have to get a politician of some sort to propose it?
Roger that my friend. ?One of the things we are working on over at the NHLA, is developing friendly relationships with some of the legislators.
We will be looking at possible legislation this summer for the next term. ?One thing to keep in mind is winning! ?It's pretty difficult to just wipe regulations out, unfortunately. ?Think the best route is to try and widdle them away a little at a time.
If you or anyone else has any ideas for legislation please feel free to drop me a note, or any of the other folks over at the NHLA.
Quote from: davemincin on May 13, 2005, 02:03 PM NHFT
Quote from: ethanpooley on May 13, 2005, 01:54 PM NHFT
What would be the steps necessary in NH to get rid of the cosmetology licensing laws? Do we have to get a politician of some sort to propose it?
Roger that my friend. One of the things we are working on over at the NHLA, is developing friendly relationships with some of the legislators.
We will be looking at possible legislation this summer for the next term. One thing to keep in mind is winning! It's pretty difficult to just wipe regulations out, unfortunately. Think the best route is to try and widdle them away a little at a time.
If you or anyone else has any ideas for legislation please feel free to drop me a note, or any of the other folks over at the NHLA.
I understand that it's a slow process. Is there anything that a non-resident can do to help? Unfortunately I'm not even a constituent of the people we need to reach. Maybe outsiders could help with documentation or research? I'm also just interested to know what stages there will be once it gets started. Will this eventually come to the people for a vote in some form? Or will it all be handled within the government itself?
Dada Orwell just called and said he'd be announcing the fast that I will be doing if my 30-day jail sentence is triggered by a minor violation.
I'm not going to stop anyone from announcing my intentions. This is a public forum in any case. Instead, I helped him understand my point of view so the announcement would be accurate.
Thanks, Dave!
Can you appeal anything if you plead guilty?
Quote from: president on May 13, 2005, 03:54 PM NHFT
What kind of sentence did you expect?
Did you know the possible sentence before you commited the crime?
A drunk driver's first DUI offense is usually punished by a few hundred dollars in fines and 2 days in jail, not a 30-day suspended sentence triggered by their next ticket for a broken tail light. ? ::) ?Thus, drunk driving is a less serious offense than selling one manicure without a license.
Yes, I knew the possible sentence.
Quote from: president on May 13, 2005, 03:54 PM NHFT
What RSA specifies the 30 day maximum sentence?
Class A misdemeanors can get up to 364 days in jail and a $2000 fine.
The reporter misquoted me. ?The 30 day suspended sentence was the maximum sentence requested by the Attorney General's prosecutors, not the maximum sentence possible.
Quote from: president on May 13, 2005, 03:54 PM NHFT
Why would you plead guilty if you want to appeal the sentence?
The sentence is read AFTER your plea, so this question makes no sense. ?I had no idea the sentence would be so extreme - drunk driving, vandalism, assault, theft, and other misdemeanors do not get such a HUGE suspended sentence from a first offense according to my initial research. ?I apparently offended the government, and they took it personally. ?It IS a personal problem between the state and I (the system, not the people), so that would be an accurate assessment.
I considered appealing the sentence on Tuesday and told a reporter this initially, but decided against doing so.
Quote from: mvpel on May 13, 2005, 04:01 PM NHFT
Can you appeal anything if you plead guilty?
Not sure, but I'm not going to.
Mike,
Several times I have done a 3 day "juice fast" (once extending it to a 4th day on just water). ?I prepared each time by eating nothing but raw vegetables for 3 days, then 2 days on just raw fruit. ?After the fasts I went back to fruit for 1 or 2 days, then just vegetables for 2 or 3 days.
It became easier each time (hence that 4th day on just water). ?So it occurs to me that if you are going to fast, and if you have never done it before, you might want to try it out in the comfort of home 1st rather than trying it out in a prison cell.
Hey please know up front, I am by no means an expert, just know the more I do the more I learn. ?Please understand that so much of what we are doing, at least as I see it, is winging it.
Hey don't sell yourself short, truth is we need all the help we can get, whether you are in NH or somewhere else. ?Not like freedom is winning, but do believe we have to make our stand, and know that I believe NH is the place me must do it.
Let's be real here, the bad guys have been at it for the last 150 years, and we are just beginning. ?People are creatures of habit, and we just can't lay our whole program on them at once, but we can begin like the opponents of freedom. ?Begin pecking away at those who oppose freedom. ?A little today a little tomorrow. ?Don't loose track of the big picture, but understand we can't get it all at once.
You betya you can help. ?We need folks to do the documentation and research. ?I have no problem running with it, but my talent doesn't lie in putting it together. ?We need folks like yourself putting it together so we can run with it.
At least my understanding is most of the regulatory stuff needs to be dealt with legislatively.
Truth is it is a hard nut to crack, but if we have the research, and can show how stupid some of this regularory crap is we have fighting chance. ?Keep in mind we have a bunch of breaucrats who' self interest is keeping things as they are.
Again no expert, but think much of what we are trying to do will be dealt with legislatively, only the really big stuff goes to the people.
Hey just trying as I can, if you are up for helping know we can use your help. ?Feel free to drop me a note re you thoughts or ideas, and thank much for you interest.
Hey know, my thought is we can only bring freedom back if we all do what we can!
Oops! My note was to ethanpooley :)
Quote from: John on May 13, 2005, 04:12 PM NHFT
Mike,
Several times I have done a 3 day "juice fast" (once extending it to a 4th day on just water). ?I prepared each time by eating nothing but raw vegetables for 3 days, then 2 days on just raw fruit. ?After the fasts I went back to fruit for 1 or 2 days, then just vegetables for 2 or 3 days.
It became easier each time (hence that 4th day on just water). ?So it occurs to me that if you are going to fast, and if you have never done it before, you might want to try it out in the comfort of home 1st rather than trying it out in a prison cell.
I've fasted for about two days before, but that's it. Perhaps I should try out a fast sometime soon for self-purification.
To me, you seem pretty pure already. :)
Quote from: ethanpooley on May 13, 2005, 03:24 PM NHFTIs there anything that a non-resident can do to help?
When something exciting happens in NH you can spread the word on the web and in the old media. Dada can help you get started.
I really wish we could find a list of normal punishments for first-time misdemeanor offenses so we could make a comparison. You'd think the state would want people to know what their punishments could be, but NO!
Hey, ignorance of the law is no excuse! Why aren't you spending hours per day reading the tomes of law that apply to zoning, for instance? Aren't you a good citizen? A good citizen knows the law. Now get reading, boy!
>:D
Quote from: president on May 13, 2005, 09:23 PM NHFT
I know, but when you plead guilty, you saying that you are guilty, you give up your right to a trial, and you are willing to take the maximum punishment.
You are 100% correct. The sentence initially shocked me so I considered my legal options. I spoke with that reporter less than an hour after the sentence was read and I was still in shock.
But sticking to the principle of honesty is what I'm going to do. I did this on purpose in order to take the state's punishment willingly. There is no reason to fight against the result because this is self-inflicted suffering.
There is no reason to fast because of my punishment either. The only reason I will fast upon triggering my 30-day sentence is because it would be too much to bear, and I have only myself to blame for it.
Strike the Root wants me to write an article for them about civil disobedience!!! :o :)
This following draft press release is very time sensitive:
I'm working today and can't finish or distribute or get clearance from mike for this press release. can someone complete those steps for me?
----
Outlaw manicurist says he'll fast if jailed
Remaining both polite and uncompromising, New Hampshire's "outlaw manicurist" is responding to his harsh sentence with a page straight out of the movie "Gandhi."
Mike Fisher, 23, of Newmarket was arrested last week for performing an unlicensed "protest manicure" in front of the state licensing office.
He is attempting to draw attention to the issue of business licensing, arguing that it is an unnecessary barrier to entry for startup entrepreneurs. After refusing to pay a $30 bail fee, Fisher spent one night in ___ (Merrimack County Jail?) and received a 30 day suspended sentence from Judge ____ (which judge was it?)
Authorities vow to "unsuspend" the sentence if Mike so much as gets a traffic ticket during the next 12 months. Fisher says that weighed heavily on his mind...at first.
"I've figured out what I'm going to do," he announced Friday on the state's most active web forum (NHfree.com)
"I'm going to fast if my 30-day jail sentence is triggered."
Fisher, weighing in at less than 115 pounds, admits it is unlikely he would be able to go without food for the entire sentence. But he's indicated the fast would be "prolonged." Quoting Gandhi, Fisher says the act would not be a protest, merely the most appropriate response to imprisonment.
" 'Whenever there is distress which one cannot remove, one must fast and pray.' "
Contacts: Kat Dillon (603) 357-2049, backup: Dave Ridley (603) 721-1490. Mike himself can be reached at (603) _____
----
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 14, 2005, 08:52 AM NHFT
Strike the Root wants me to write an article for them about civil disobedience!!!? ?:o :)
Very good!! :)
ethan yes there is something you can do to pitch in from out of state. Or anywhere. I think it is a lot of fun, and it has proven effective:
check out
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=804.0
and follow the instructions there if you want to have a real effect from a distance.
There are other things you can do to help the NHLA with research of course but I"m no expert on that....just head to nhliberty.org and let them know your avalailable.
Sorry if my actions and posts are a little out of sync with mike's requests on this thread....I haven't been on the net much for the last two days and was acting without having read mike's not-so-fast message and what not. I'll defer to Mike as to whether that press release is ok to send out and/or should be changed.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 15, 2005, 07:51 AM NHFT
Sorry if my actions and posts are a little out of sync with mike's requests on this thread....I haven't been on the net much for the last two days and was acting without having read mike's not-so-fast message and what not.? ?I'll defer to Mike as to whether that press release is ok to send out and/or should be changed.
Definitely send this out if and when I'm in jail for 30 days, but it is not going to be relevant until then.
We need some people to write LTEs in response to today's Foster's Daily Statist article. ::)
I'm busy today, sorry.
I don't get the Fosters paper delivered.....they are a little too STATIST for me......what did they say?
It was too ugly for your tender little eyes, dear.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 15, 2005, 10:31 AM NHFT
I don't get the Fosters paper delivered.....they are a little too STATIST for me......what did they say?
http://www.fosters.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050515/NEWS13/105140017
And THEY want to say someone missed the point?
Kevin
So should we all just start ignoring this paper?
Quote from: russellkanning on May 15, 2005, 12:28 PM NHFT
So should we all just start ignoring this paper?
Not ignoring, but rather, not buying. >:D
It's good to pay attention to what the opposition is up to. What they are saying, opposing, promoting.
Not sure if it is worth the trouble to write Fosters...I hear they reject stuff from conservatives and liberty types. If I'm wrong someone let me know; I'm trying to track which papers print our LTEs most consistently.
Seems like they made most of Mike's points for him, however, just like the bureaucrats did....and any LTE from me would thank them LOL. I'd write one if I thought it would print.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 10, 2005, 10:02 PM NHFT
OMG, my wife recorded this as my birthday present yesterday around 2pm, probably while I was cuffed in the police car on route from the police station to the jail:
Amethyste Fisher - No One Like You (http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/af-noonelikeyou.mp3)
:)
Finaly got to hear this while visiting with one of my daughters today . . . We were both quite impressed.
Very nice. Very nice indeed! :)
Thanks for sharing this.
I have a couple of contacts at Fosters who have been pretty up front with me. Perhaps I'll try and put something together tomorrow. For now just not into the thinking mode...at least not anything that requires brain power. ^-^
Hey Lloyd, still don't know what azn means, but just going to pretend it means fried brain. ^-^
I'm debating whether or not to write an LTE to Foster's stating:
Thanks for doing at least some research on one side of the licensing issue. The purpose of my event was to create debate because I believe these regulations are slowly encroaching upon the people without their knowledge or approval. It is unfortunate, however, that you did absolutely no research on the opposite perspective. What kind of journalists only research one side of an issue? I do not believe it was fair of you to do this, especially when writing a lengthy editorial about it.
I deeply appreciate all sides of this issue, and all arguments for and against licensing laws, and that's why I did so much research and training before the event. It's odd how your editorial staff failed to realize that I researched all known nail conditions before my protest and I could identify those possible conditions. This took a few hours. The "30 minutes" of research most papers refer to is only the time required for me to look up the sanitary manicure procedures. It's also odd that your journalists failed to notice that I refused to sell a manicure to one person at the event because he had a nail condition (peeling and splitting layers) that I identified.
It is not necessary to have government approval to do manicures. As a matter of fact, it is the consumer's responsibility to protect themselves from unqualified professionals, not the government's job.
Thank you very much for covering the event and writing a lengthy editorial about the subject - that is all that I could have hoped for from anyone, and I am very thankful for this. Hopefully, next time you will research more than one side of the issue before publishing your editorial.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 15, 2005, 09:25 PM NHFT
I'm debating whether or not to write an LTE to Foster's stating:
Thanks for doing at least some research on one side of the licensing issue.? The purpose of my event was to create debate because I believe these regulations are slowly encroaching upon the people without their knowledge or approval.? It is unfortunate, however, that you did absolutely no research on the opposite perspective.? What kind of journalists only research one side of an issue?? I do not believe it was fair of you to do this, especially when writing a lengthy editorial about it.
I deeply appreciate all sides of this issue, and all arguments for and against licensing laws, and that's why I did so much research and training before the event.? It's odd how your editorial staff failed to realize that I researched all known nail conditions before my protest and I could identify those possible conditions.? This took a few hours.? The "30 minutes" of research most papers refer to is only the time required for me to look up the sanitary manicure procedures.? It's also odd that your journalists failed to notice that I refused to sell a manicure to one person at the event because he had a nail condition (peeling and splitting layers) that I identified.
It is not necessary to have government approval to do manicures.? As a matter of fact, it is the consumer's responsibility to protect themselves from unqualified professionals, not the government's job.
Thank you very much for covering the event and writing a lengthy editorial about the subject - that is all that I could have hoped for from anyone, and I am very thankful for this.? Hopefully, next time you will research more than one side of the issue before publishing your editorial.
That's excellent Mike. I think you should send it.
I KNOW they're not going to publish something so long, but I sent this to the Foster's editorial staff:
Dear Fosters Editorial Staff,
Thank you for doing at least some research on one side of the licensing issue.? The purpose of my event was to create debate because I believe these regulations are slowly encroaching upon the people without their knowledge or approval.? To this extent, the event was wildly successful.? It is unfortunate, however, that your staff did absolutely NO research on the opposite perspective, particularly the view that liberty should prevail in this matter.? I do not believe your editorial staff was fair to the opposite perspective, especially with such a lengthy article.
I deeply appreciate all sides of this issue, and all arguments for and against licensing laws.? I spent hours researching and training for the event.? It's very disappointing how your editorial staff failed to realize that I researched all known nail conditions before my protest and could easily identify those conditions.? This took a few hours of research.? It's also disappointing that your journalists failed to notice that I refused to sell a manicure to one person at the event because he had a nail condition (peeling and splitting layers) that I identified.
Also, without ever interviewing me, you claimed "Fisher contended he had learned everything he needed to know about manicuring by surfing the Web for half an hour."? This quote is a complete fabrication by your staff.? Your professional journalists should have known better than to put their own words into someone's mouth.? The "30 minutes" of research most papers refer to is only the time required for me to look up the sanitary manicure procedures.
It's funny how the cosmetology schools are half of the people pushing for these laws - they are the primary benefactor of such laws.? In the meantime, entry-level workers and entrepreneurs are seriously hurt by these restrictions.
It's too bad that so few people understand how fragile small businesses really are, and how much damage is inflicted by these laws.? If people knew that 95% of small businesses fail within the first 5 years, they would NEVER support such restrictions unless they wished to stifle their potential competition.? Instead, people would depend on professional reputations and optional private sector certifications when making their buying decisions.
Caveat Emptor.? Buyer Beware.? Consumer Responsibility.? It's wisdom as old as time.? However, through paternalistic laws such as licensing, the government protects us from small evils at the expense of our rights and responsibilities.? We refuse to oppose these laws and we wonder why so few people today have a strong sense of personal responsibility.
Gandhi helped inspire me to do this event.? I fought against New Hampshire's tyrannical licensing restrictions by filing nails in violation of manicurist licensing laws.? Gandhi fought against the British by boiling saltwater in violation of salt licensing laws.? The parallels are clear.? The principles are the same.
Thank you very much for covering the event and writing a lengthy editorial about the subject - that is exactly what I hoped for as a result of this event, and I am very thankful for your coverage of this topic, positive or not.? Hopefully from now on you will research more than one side of the issue before publishing an editorial.
Mike Fisher
Newmarket, NH
So, Russell... What's the plan for what comes next? Delivering mail? ;)
I am trying to decide....
I would like to attack the big stuff:
Taxes as Theft (especially the big ones like income taxes)
Taxes as paying for things you oppose (war, government schools)
Separation of School and State
ID (Your Papers Please!)
My gut feeling is to just live my life the way I want to and when I bump into the government......then I just don't give into them.
I don't pay Income Taxes....but I don't have a good way to make a public display of it....and they don't hassle me about it...sooooo
I don't really have any government ID.....but do I want to purposely make a scene about this one? (like trying to go through security at an airport)
Maybe we can just go about our business and an opportunity for civil disobedience will present itself. I like the technique.....I just can't decide which thing to apply it to. Maybe we won't pay the school portion of our property tax....maybe I will run into a situation where they demand ID....who knows.
Mike....do you want to keep pursuing the licensing madness?
It does make some sense to keep pressing in the same direction...but my heart is in other issues.
I don't know if our forces would like to join behind one big issue or can we attack say....3 different issues at once, so that people can follow their biggest passion. Right now we are very scattered and we are pushing all liberty fronts at once...but for major action....maybe we have to concentrate a little more.
What are everyone's thoughts?
It seems to me we could get the whole state talking about an issue if
...the issue/law is:
outlandish (manicures)
outrageous (Myrtle's zoning battle)
effects everyone (taxes, ID, seatbelts, schools etc.)
...and we use the proper physical techniques like:
civil disobedience
happy protesters
...and back it up with:
word of mouth
LTE
old media contacts
radio coverage
internet forums and news coverage
legislative action
I think we can move the culture of NH and elsewhere significantly....if we stick with one(or a small few) message and keep it up. The bad guys are continuing to worry about what effect we are having on the minds and hearts of our fellow citizens. :)
We could move with one force or set up a few groups to match our various passions.....and let the various talents run wild inside each of these groups and see where it takes us.
We have already had some interest in Seperation of School and State........would we like this to be our one issue or what other major issues would you like to support with a major, long-term push?
IMHO, I think it would be good to focus on licensing laws and separation of school and state. These two issues affect everyone closely.
Interesting....that is very helpful. :)
So did you mention the licensing issue because of Mike's success....or just because of how many people it effects?
I could really see pursuing that issue farther....partly because it makes sense to not just drop what Mike has done and leave it just "discussed" and also because it is a huge issue.....the government controls what work we can do, whether we can drive or travel, and what kind of recreation we can enjoy. Maybe we could just follow through with Mike's licensing issue ....from the problem of getting governments permission to work all the way up to the national ID problem.
I could definitly see us running with both of these issues. 8)
I think licensing is a great issue. It it literally strangling the American dream, in that poor people cannot start businesses. Removal of licensing would be a boom for NH's economy.
...the other good thing is both the school issue and licensing....can mostly be solved within NH. :)
?So should we all just start ignoring this paper??
I believe a better strategy is to go after the newspaper?s advertisers and tell them you will quit buying their products advertised in that paper. Tell the paper that is what you are going to do.
Allan
...it would be funny to call up some advertiser and say, "based on the wonderful information I have learned from the Fosters Daily Democrate/Socialist I can no longer support your evil capitalist profit motives."
I lived in CA for a short time in the early 90's. In CA, you need a licence to Fart, if your going to do it for money.
With about 20 years of painting experience, I sent for the painting contractor licence application, that came with a test, about 4 pages. I didn't know the answers to about half the questions, although I had yet to kill anyone painting, and, had always got paid at the end of the job. there were times I would be called apon to use a product, I had never used before and I just, researched it, asked the paint store guy, read the can.
I threw the application away. The interesting thing about CA was you could work in an occupation without a licence, but, you had to state, in your add, that you didn't have one.
Perhaps getting this sort of compromise into the laws concerning licencing would be a way to give customers a choice about who they hired to do services for them.
Doing away with the requirement of having to have a licence is a step in the right direction.
Gee can you fart for money? Man all this time I have been wasting talent!
I like the idea of attacking both licensing and government run schooling.
How about opening up an unlicensed school? (or were we already talking about that?)
IMHO, you'd probably need to eliminate licensing in order to get rid of govt interference in education.
I just heard the song that your wife sang, Mike. Wow! :o That song would be a great theme for all of our underground rallies. Did I say wow? :o Great job, Amethyste. ;D If you ever needed a new career, that song would be an excellent place to start. 8)
The cost of schooling via property taxes has traction, but I suspect that most people don't see the point on what is wrong with government run schooling yet. Hopefully that will change, but until viable alternatives are available for the majority of people to demonstrate the inefficiency of government run schools, those protesting them will be dismissed as being on the fringe and likely not gain the sort of response the licensing protest got. Of course, that's just my opinion.
How about the idea of someone trying to board a plane without any ID?
IMO, we should not attempt any civil disobedience events unless they follow the basic requirements of the successful events throughout history:
-MUST be peaceful, non-violent, non-cooperation.
-MUST violate a blatantly unjust law.
-MUST attract at least 50 people, including the police and the press.? (well, 25 worked for us)? :)
-MUST cause an immediate, severe response by the police.
It may take years to come up with good ideas that meet these criteria.? For now, we only have a few qualifying ideas.
I think the civil disobedience idea of delivering mail is a solid plan which would find a very strong base of support.? The primary argument we'd have to repeat constantly is that the constitution is wrong because:
-The government should not ban private mail delivery.? This monopoly on mail delivery is immoral and harmful.
-The government should not be delivering mail at all.
Our first event was successful.? We obtained backing from the largest and most influential newspaper in the state.? We have a lot of support on the licensing issue now, and even most of our opposition has respect for our uncompromising conviction.? This was NOT an easy task at all.? All events of civil disobedience carry a lage degree of risk.? The plan must be solid and the goal must be clear and obviously just.
We should concentrate on creating new ideas for civil disobedience events relating to compulsory education, but this is not at all a small goal or a low-lying fruit.? It may take YEARS for us to come up with a great idea and a solid plan for a successful civil disobedience event targeted at this issue that will gain maximum public support for our cause.
So which ideas do we have so far that meet all the requirements?
NH laws:
-Public barbering, cosmetology, esthetics, and massages.? Violation of New Hampshire law.
-Publicly selling hard liquor to adults 21 and over.? Violation of New Hampshire law.
-Publicly selling alcohol to adults 18-20 years old.? Technically a violation of New Hampshire law.
US laws:
-Publicly delivering mail, preferably to mailboxes.? Violation of US law.
-Publicly selling products or services and refusing to accept Federal Reserve Notes as payment.? Violation of US law.
-Publicly burning social security cards.? Violation of US law.
Any more?? Government-created monopolies should be easy targets.? What are all the monopolies the New Hampshire government has created?
Dada,
If and when I fast, I will consume only water and a little salt to live, but I will not eat or drink anything else.
Twice during Gandhi's life, he fasted for 3 weeks, if I remember correctly, and he was about 105-115 pounds.
Someone who weighed more could live longer. A magician recently fasted for 40 days and I believe he went from 225 to 170 pounds during that period. Unfortunately, if someone refused water, they'd probably die in under a week.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 14, 2005, 08:52 AM NHFT
Strike the Root wants me to write an article for them about civil disobedience!!! :o :)
Great! Put in a plug for the Free State Project while your at it. We need more MArket Anarchists moving to NH.
Tracy
It seems like if we focus on licensing, that gives us a broad array of issues within one issue.
Personally my big beef is taxation, but sometimes the fastest way to liberate town A is to reinforce a successful offensive against town B.
One idea I did have today however regarding anti tax protests... It's hard to make those visual and also difficult to pick the time and place of conflict. But maybe one idea for accomplishing that would be to announce you are going to show up at some tax office with a jug full of salt water, then pour it all over one of their PCs. This idea needs work but it's a start... Anyway it may be that the licensing thing is better to stick with until or unless media attention starts to wane.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on May 17, 2005, 01:10 AM NHFT
One idea I did have today however regarding anti tax protests...? It's hard to make those visual and also difficult to pick the time and place of conflict.? But maybe one idea for accomplishing that would be to announce you are going to show up at some tax office with a jug full of salt water, then pour it all over one of their PCs.? This idea needs work but it's a start...
:o You're crazy, Dave. ;) I don't think we'd get any support for that type of action.
I would support it...but I don't count ;D
Quote from: russellkanning on May 17, 2005, 11:06 AM NHFT
I would support it...but I don't count ;D
Sure you do Russell.
1...2...3...
I don't see why this all need take years for planning. You kicked ass and took names in a matter of weeks.
How about setting up a taxi service, giving people rides for money?? I dunno about NH, but I remember reading that immigrants had set up businesses in big cities driving people around in vans.? People were paying for the van rides because privately owned vans, unlike public transportation, go where you want them to.? But the government shut them down to protect their public transport boondoggles, along with licensed cabbies.
Just an idea.
I like that idea!
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 17, 2005, 12:53 PM NHFT
I don't see why this all need take years for planning.? You kicked ass and took names in a matter of weeks.
:)
It doesn't take years of planning to pull it off. ?It only takes years to come up with the greatest ideas for civil disobedience. ?It took Gandhi many years to come up with the idea for the Dandi March protesting against the salt monopoly.
Copying his strategy will save us years of thought, however. ?;)
Quote from: Rocketman on May 17, 2005, 01:22 PM NHFT
How about setting up a taxi service, giving people rides for money? I dunno about NH, but I remember reading that immigrants had set up businesses in big cities driving people around in vans. People were paying for the van rides because privately owned vans, unlike public transportation, go where you want them to. But the government shut them down to protect their public transport boondoggles, along with licensed cabbies.
Just an idea.
And a great idea! I read about that, too. I think it was in Manhattan (at least the story I read). The riders liked it because it was a more direct route to their destination. Gee, I thought I had read that story from a link posted on this forum.
Quote from: Rocketman on May 17, 2005, 01:22 PM NHFT
How about setting up a taxi service, giving people rides for money?? I dunno about NH, but I remember reading that immigrants had set up businesses in big cities driving people around in vans.? People were paying for the van rides because privately owned vans, unlike public transportation, go where you want them to.? But the government shut them down to protect their public transport boondoggles, along with licensed cabbies.
Just an idea.
That's an idea, but I don't think they'd crack down on you here, would they?
Hey... I remember you. Did you visit here from Kentucky and stay with Dave? If so, then we went out for a drink at the Lamprey Tavern the day before you went back home! Remember me? :)
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo/message/6358
From: Dan Clore <clore@...>
Date: Mon May 16, 2005? 7:04 am
Subject: Re: Clipped for Manicure without a License? clore333
Offline
Send Email?
Michael Price wrote:
> James A. Donald wrote:
>>I am troubled that Dan Clore is taking a more principled
>>anarchist position than you are - or indeed I am.
This touches me deeply. But upon further research, I've
found the following:
http://www.fosters.com
Foster's Online
May 15, 2005
Free State protest misses the mark
--clipped--
*****
Now, I have to confess that I have never procured the
services of a manicurist. I have always taken care of my
nails myself, without any formal training. This always
seemed reasonable enough; some individuals may have objected
to my nails on aesthetic grounds, at various times, but I
have never had any discernible health problems related to them.
The writers fault Mike Fisher's nail treatment because, as
they put it, "Fisher avoided providing services that could
lead to serious medical complications." Given that one would
probably desire this result, this might seem like reasonable
behavior. And frankly, I just don't see any particular
reason to do something to my nails that might lead to
serious medical complications. But the professionals insist,
and the would know, wouldn't they?
So, upon their expert advice, I have now come to the
conclusion that no one should be forced to wallow in
ignorance as I have done for so long. Government training in
nail care, particularly focusing on practices that might
lead to serious medical complications, must become mandatory
for all.
We will have to tread a thin line when we make the logical
extension of requiring a licence to do one's own nails, and
require that nails be done. But we will gain a new coming of
age ritual. Teens will eagerly await the day when they can
get their license, and not only start to do their own nails,
but even do others' nails as well! No more sneaking around
in the bushes to do each others nails, like before!
And, of course, given the likelihood of resistance to
pointless practices that may lead to serious medical
complications, we will need further regulations specifying
how often one must have one's nails done, and special
law-enforcement tools like armed checkpoints to determine
that all have duly complied with the law.
Those found guilty of violating these new laws will be
ritually clawed to death by the righteous citizens of the
Total Nail-Care State--
(Fade-out to chanting of "Nail Hitler! Nail Hitler!! Nail
Hitler!!!)
--
Dan Clore
My collected fiction, _The Unspeakable and Others_:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/1587154838/thedanclorenecro/
Lord We?rdgliffe & Necronomicon Page:
http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/9879/
News & Views for Anarchists & Activists:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/smygo
Strange pleasures are known to him who flaunts the
immarcescible purple of poetry before the color-blind.
-- Clark Ashton Smith, "Epigrams and Apothegms"
LOL!
Nope, nobody talking about it. We didn't even send them a press release.
From today's Monadnock Shopper:
[attachment deleted by admin]
They are asking for a Property Tax Revolt.......should we start one? :D
Maybe we could put that one on the front page too. 8)
See, Russell's right...we're not being radical enough!
Great cartoon, good to get recognization of any kind.
Quote from: katdillon on May 19, 2005, 02:23 PM NHFT
See, Russell's right...we're not being radical enough!
We are not as hardcore as they expected....time to ramp up the activity.....don't want to disappoint anyone. 8)
Quote from: russellkanning on May 19, 2005, 02:09 PM NHFT
They are asking for a Property Tax Revolt.......should we start one? :D
Sounds like a Market demand to me!
Wow. Anyone know anything about the cartoonist?
http://www.marlandcartoons.com/
Yeah look at this one he did:
(http://www.marlandcartoons.com/Resources/monito7.gif)
That's excellent!
Quote from: LiveFreeOrDie on May 19, 2005, 05:28 PM NHFT
Wow.? Anyone know anything about the cartoonist?
http://www.marlandcartoons.com/
I have contacted him about doing some artwork for ShortyDawkins.com
Perhaps we all could hire him to create a cartoon for us.
Ok how about the idea of a person announcing they will show up at a tax office somewhere that collects property taxes from NH residents...and start *unplugging* PC's instead of salt watering them?
I went on the Gardner Goldsmith show today in manchester , where they were griping about the bike helmet law for kids. suggested civil disobedience event on this.
I think maybe one plus for a civil disobedience event is if it is against a recently passed law.
Maybe it could be done the day the law goes into effect? Gard thought the best thing would be to have 50 kids riding without helmets, but even one might do the trick.
The beauty of this civil disobedience stuff is that it does only take one person. Turnout is not a huge issue like it is with lawful protests.
50 kids riding bikes with no helmets means the odds are higher one will take a spill, then the helmet proponents will say "See! See!"
Well you never know......it is freedom baby 8)
QuoteHey... I remember you. Did you visit here from Kentucky and stay with Dave? If so, then we went out for a drink at the Lamprey Tavern the day before you went back home! Remember me?
Mike, I remember you quite well from my visit in December. Great job with the protest! I'll be back in NH soon (PorcFest for sure, sooner if I can afford it). Keep up the good work.
Organize the event so the parent asks the child to wear their helmet and the child REFUSES, then rides around without a helmet, thus asserting her freedom from this law.
What would they do? Arrest the parent? The child? LOL
The state would look idiotic either way.
Idea for those who live in states where most fireworks are banned:
-Publicly organize an event to celebrate assert your freedom on the 4th of July with illegal fireworks.
Pick the safe ones, pick a safe place, and take all safety precautions just in case.? ;)? This would be wildly successful in a state like Vermont where even sparklers are banned.? The effect of this event would be enormous!? ?:o
What are they going to do? Jail you for lighting sparklers? Actually, yes, they will. That's the whole point! It reveals the inherent stupidity of the system!
Are there any areas in NH where fireworks are banned?
AH the 4th of July were we mix alcohol and gunpowder, is there anymore fitting way?
Also it is the day we celebrate our forefathers breaking English law by breaking our own.
I try not to get arrested while doing so. Sorry about that.
I notice many of you have fallen into the same trap as many of the rest of America:
Quote from: Pat K on May 21, 2005, 10:21 PM NHFT
AH the 4th of July
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 21, 2005, 08:26 PM NHFT
on the 4th of July
When all the politicians call it the "fourth of july", the news media reports on it that way, and Americans follow.
It's Independence Day, not the "fourth of July". We'll be discussing this again on FTL this year.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 21, 2005, 11:45 PM NHFT
I notice many of you have fallen into the same trap as many of the rest of America:
Quote from: Pat K on May 21, 2005, 10:21 PM NHFT
AH the 4th of July
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 21, 2005, 08:26 PM NHFT
on the 4th of July
When all the politicians call it the "fourth of july", the news media reports on it that way, and Americans follow.
It's Independence Day, not the "fourth of July".? We'll be discussing this again on FTL this year.
Good point!!!
Mike, is this one of the guys you were in jail with?
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_culture&Number=293638994&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1day&Main=293638994#Post293638994
Quote from: katdillon on May 22, 2005, 04:07 AM NHFT
Mike, is this one of the guys you were in jail with?
http://www.libertyforum.org/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=news_culture&Number=293638994&Search=true&Forum=All_Forums&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=1day&Main=293638994#Post293638994
There was one guy in there for stealing $4 worth of beer, but his name was Joshua, not Jason.
They move people out of the "Tank" after a few days and into a "Day Room", which is much easier to live in. This guy named Jason was probably already in a day room when I arrived.
Positive column in the Monitor
Libertarian lent freedom a hand (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050524/REPOSITORY/505240302/1224)
Quote from: JonM on May 24, 2005, 08:36 AM NHFT
Positive column in the Monitor
Libertarian lent freedom a hand (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050524/REPOSITORY/505240302/1224)
WOOHOO!!! :) :) :)
Excellent! A little weaving of the FSP into the LP, but, otherwise excellent., you party members, you!
Wow!
I thought that was your job......whatever happened to the "buck stops here"?
Our presidente needs more responsibilities ;)
An anarchocapitalist is a type of libertarian.
Quote from: president on May 24, 2005, 09:29 AM NHFT
Someone should write a LTE to correct this mistake
::)
Who really cares?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 24, 2005, 09:55 AM NHFT
Quote from: president on May 24, 2005, 09:29 AM NHFT
Someone should write a LTE to correct this mistake
::)
Who really cares?
Somebody does......so we can let them fix it. :)
Looks like libertarian_lass in NYC already sent in a correction. ::)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 24, 2005, 09:46 AM NHFT
An anarchocapitalist is a type of libertarian.
Trust me, they're one in the same!
Oh, that editorial author, Bill Dampier, is on the merrimack valley porcs email list. I told him the editoral was awesome :)
Bill sent Margot a note the other day expressing interest in the FSP, and our activities in NH. Guessing she directed him to the Merrimack group.
After the excitement of the Outlaw Manicurist.....the merrimack porc meeting might be a little boring. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on May 24, 2005, 06:31 PM NHFT
After the excitement of the Outlaw Manicurist.....the merrimack porc meeting might be a little boring. :)
I'm going to be there.
So it should be REALLY boring!!! :)
LTE from the Concord Monitor today:
Second, in his commentary about Mike Fisher's arrest for performing a manicure without a license, Bill Dampier talks about how the government is an overbearing presence in people's lives due to over-regulation.
Think about Fisher's arrest. The police didn't have a manicure detail hunting down illegal nail polishers. Fisher called the police and the press, told them where, when and how he was going to break the law and begged for an arrest. If the police hadn't shown up and arrested him, he might have made a story about lax law enforcement.
He claims to have a story about government interference in private business, but this is because he did everything short of breaking into jail to involve the government.
Today's regulations didn't just pop up in a vacuum. Businesses like drug companies and food producers were self-regulated at the turn of the last century. After a few generations of gobbling snake oil and sawdust, the public concluded that you can't rely on every business to act responsibly. That's how we get regulations.
Given recent developments, future generations will have to relearn some of this history.
JAMES COLE
Concord
Now let's apply this text to Gandhi's civil disobedience:
"Think about Gandhi's arrest. The police didn't have a salt-production detail hunting down illegal saltwater boilers.? Gandhi wrote to British authorities and the press, told them where, when and how he was going to break the law and begged for an arrest.? The police did not show up and arrest him, so it made a worldwide story about lax law enforcement until he was arrested."
"He claims to have a story about government interference in private business, but this is because he did everything short of breaking into jail to involve the government."
And James Cole tells us that WE do not understand history?? ????
"Today's regulations didn't just pop up in a vacuum. Businesses like drug companies and food producers were self-regulated at the turn of the last century. After a few generations of gobbling snake oil and sawdust, the public concluded that you can't rely on every business to act responsibly. That's how we get regulations."
"Given recent developments, future generations will have to relearn some of this history."
Indeed, future generations will have to relearn history, but only because they have been fed watered-down "social studies" garbage history at school.? They gain no perspective, or a false perspective, from these teachings.
The real reason why we have regulations today is because governments never stop expanding.? History has proven governments cannot be limited, and our government is only one more experiment in limited government that failed miserably to remain limited.? The true effect of these laws is to raise money for the State, while significantly diminishing the value of a professional reputation or private sector certification through a monopoly of professional classification of over 117 different professions in this state alone.
Public health is only an excuse for expanding the government into every aspect of our lives.? Men like James Cole support the regulation of alcohol, tobacco, fast food, salt, fat, sugar, and anything else that affects the "public health".? There is no aspect of our lives that will be beyond government control under his theory.
Here are some ideas:
? ? ?-handing out novelty IDs to kids who are 20.? Encourage them to purchase alcohol with it.
? ? ?-finding a medical marijuana patient (a person with multiple sclerosis or cancer) taking a hit of marijuana in public.
? ? ?-have your son or daughter take a butter knife to school to butter the rolls you pack in her lunch.? I think many zero-tolerance policies prohibit all knives.
? ? ?-convicing a city council to declare the entire city a "free speech zone"
It'll be a few years before I can move to NH.? I've got law school first.? All this activity has got me excited though.? I'd really like to be in on it today.? Keep it up.? Activity like this is what will ensure members will be enthusiastic enough to actually make the move.
Welcome Biff! ;)
Of course you realize that by the time you finish Law School, we expect to have a lot of the laws you will be studying repealed. ;D
We need fewer laws. >:D
Quote from: BiffTannen on May 26, 2005, 09:21 PM NHFT
-finding a medical marijuana patient (a person with multiple sclerosis or cancer) taking a hit of marijuana in public.
No, what we need is a mass smoke out on the capitol steps. Medical users, recreational users, first timers... ;D
Quote from: BiffTannen on May 26, 2005, 09:21 PM NHFT
Here are some ideas:
? ? ?-handing out novelty IDs to kids who are 20.? Encourage them to purchase alcohol with it.
? ? ?-finding a medical marijuana patient (a person with multiple sclerosis or cancer) taking a hit of marijuana in public.
? ? ?-have your son or daughter take a butter knife to school to butter the rolls you pack in her lunch.? I think many zero-tolerance policies prohibit all knives.
? ? ?-convicing a city council to declare the entire city a "free speech zone"
It'll be a few years before I can move to NH.? I've got law school first.? All this activity has got me excited though.? I'd really like to be in on it today.? Keep it up.? Activity like this is what will ensure members will be enthusiastic enough to actually make the move.
These are all great ideas!? It's too bad you won't be here for a while.? Do not be afraid to take action in your own community before you move to New Hampshire.? You are definitely creative and enthusiastic enough to do it.? :)
Others who are not yet in New Hampshire are planning an event of civil disobedience in their community. The time is definitely now for us to light the fires of liberty around the country while we have some momentum!
Ian might be on to something there....
I bet NORML and other groups might join and also I am sure that must be at least one or two reps who might sponsor a bill in the House..
The Newmarket Business Association's (NBA) Newsletter Committee meeting tonight was interesting. ?We talked a lot about town ordinances, licensing laws, planning and zoning laws, signage regulations, and more.
I proposed the idea that it is our unique responsibility, as the town's only form of representation for businesses, to take a strong stand and oppose these laws. ?This was well-received by the committee, which is great considering that everyone now knows I'm an FSP member and they probably know my "agenda" now.
The NBA Newsletter is the only form of local media in town. ?There is no other local publication, and it is a wonder how anyone knows anything about what's going on in Town Hall.
The NBA does not normally take a strong stand on anything other than a few minor issues. ?However, the committee tonight agreed with the concept of taking votes from member businesses in town in order to take a strong stand on the issues we care about.
This is how it will work. ?We will contact each member business and ask their position on a few issues, like planning and zoning, signage regulations, the new "heritage advisory commission", the upcoming "historic district", and various ordinances. ?Proposed ordinances include noise restrictions after 4:30pm, signage restrictions, trash "licensing", dog laws, and more.
We ask for each member's position on the issues, then we adopt that position as our own and fight for it with everything we've got. ?Because our members are businesses, they will most likely oppose most or all of these laws. ?Thus, we may soon be opposing most of what the town is doing and planning to do in the future, and we'll have significant credibility to do so because we will represent most Newmarket businesses.
Now all we have to do is get this approved by the rest of the Board. ?I'll write my civil disobedience article for the newsletter and try to attach its message to these ordinances, or I may end up separating the two issues in the newsletter. ?Either way, the fight should begin during the next month or two.
If not enough businesses oppose these laws then I'll simply withdraw my support. ?If most oppose these laws, then I'll support the effort to have them repealed immediately.
As it stands now, most members I've spoken to support my act of civil disobedience, wish for all of these ordinances to be eliminated, and want to prevent the "historic district" from being implemented. ?That's pretty good for a "liberal" town. ?;)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 26, 2005, 10:55 PM NHFT
The Newmarket Business Association's (NBA) Newsletter Committee meeting tonight was interesting.
Excellent!
Kevin
that's great, Mike!
Biff it would be a shame to waste your efforts on law school.......I agree with Alan.....why not just help us dump our present laws. :)
Welcome Biff good to have you here! Can't wait till you're here in person. Those are good ideas, keep em coming.
Also if you want to pitch in from where you are you can always keep an eye on
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=804.0
and then broadcast the press releases there to your favorite forums, mailing lists or media outlets.
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 26, 2005, 09:58 PM NHFT
Quote from: BiffTannen on May 26, 2005, 09:21 PM NHFT
? ? ?-finding a medical marijuana patient (a person with multiple sclerosis or cancer) taking a hit of marijuana in public.
No, what we need is a mass smoke out on the capitol steps.? Medical users, recreational users, first timers...? ;D
I haven't smoked pot for 4 years, but, I would get on board for this!
I could just be in the crowd ....maybe upwind :)
Quote from: BiffTannen on May 26, 2005, 09:21 PM NHFTIt'll be a few years before I can move to NH.
Dude, you've got to make like a tree and get out of there!
Quote from: russellkanning on May 27, 2005, 10:54 AM NHFT
I could just be in the crowd ....maybe upwind :)
Hey! If I can make the sacrifice, you can!
I can't imagine Russell stoned. Maybe he'd get talkative.
Quote from: katdillon on May 27, 2005, 04:49 PM NHFT
I can't imagine Russell stoned.? Maybe he'd get talkative.
OH SHIT! I retract my dare!
Quote from: FTL_Ian on May 26, 2005, 09:58 PM NHFT
No, what we need is a mass smoke out on the capitol steps.? Medical users, recreational users, first timers...? ;D
This would be amazing.
They'd crack down on you so fast and so hard that in some states you would be beaten by the police in public.
The Drug War is worldwide, but the end of this war can begin with only one person if necessary. The difference between a normal drug bust and a civil disobedience arrest is enormous. You are declaring to the government that you're going to do what you want, harming no one, and no law can stop you.
This would significantly increase public support for ending the drug war, although the opposition would still be enormous.
Because of today's Total Police State, people visualize drug users as secret back-alley crackfiends.
Imagine what will happen when a bunch of well-dressed everyday people walk up to the steps of the State Capitol and smoke marijuana, regardless of the instant arrest that will occur.
The public's visualization of drug users will change. They will realize that these are everyday people that are not hurting anyone. The government's brutality will finally be apparent to those who have closed their eyes to it for so many years.
This is definitely something that must be done.
Here's my article for the Newmarket Business Association's quarterly newsletter. I could not condense the article any further without sacrificing crucial information.
'Outlaw Manicurist' Defies State Licensing Laws
Concord, NH, May 9, 2005 - Michael Fisher, 23, of Newmarket, who said he was inspired by the movie "Gandhi", was arrested outside the state licensing offices in Concord on May 9th and jailed overnight for selling a manicure without a license, a criminal misdemeanor. A lawsuit to prevent Fisher's act filed by the state Attorney General's office was unilaterally withdrawn days before the event.
The purpose of Fisher's act of civil disobedience was to call attention to the hardship caused by what he believes are unnecessary and harmful regulations which hurt entrepreneurs and entry-level workers in many industries. In his letter of intention to the state licensing board, Fisher wrote, "All that is necessary to protect responsible consumers in a free society is the natural system of professional reputations and optional private sector certifications." "In a free country, people do not need permission to start a business."
Fisher was arrested, refused to pay bail, and was held overnight in Merrimack County jail. He pled guilty "to help get the message out there" and received a 30-day suspended jail sentence that can be triggered within a year by a single traffic ticket. His event resulted in heavy statewide media coverage of licensing regulations.
The New Zealand Herald
Police Arrest Man For Giving Manicure
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=466&ObjectID=10127476
The Wire NH
under the dome
http://www.wirenh.com/stories/2023
"After last week's arrest of rogue manicurist and Free Stater Michael Fisher for giving out unlicensed nail jobs in Concord, state lawmakers continue their assault against errant estheticians on Wednesday when the Senate Public and Municipal Affairs Committee will meet to discuss HB 239, which would require shampoo assistants to receive a license from the state's Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics. This means anyone who shampoos, rinses treated or untreated hair, or performs "other cleaning or sink related functions" for a living will have to shell out $20 to the state for a license. The Cosmetology Board expects the licenses to net the state almost $2,500 in revenue the first year the law is in effect. Fisher was giving an illegal manicure to a fellow Free Stater in front of the offices of the Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics in protest of licensing requirements by the state."
Freedom1776 from Monterey County, California
Man Arrested for Manicuring Without a License
http://www.freedom1776.com/news/manicuring.htm
John Stark Review
CLIP FREE OR DIE
http://www.johnstarkreview.com/archives/2005/05/
"Does government regulation protect the consumer better than market forces? Michael Fisher, who was arrested last week for giving a manicure without first obtaining a license from the Board of Barbering, Cosmetology and Esthetics, doesn?t think so.
Fisher, who moved to New Hampshire as part of the Free State Project, wanted to draw attention to the licensing law, which he believes reduces competition without providing any commensurate benefit to the consumer. He said it took him only 30 minutes to learn sanitary manicure procedures from the internet. As opposed to the 300 hours of training the Board believes is necessary for a license, at a school approved by the Board.
A common justification for government regulation is that consumers aren?t sophisticated enough to protect themselves from businesses that would provide dangerous products or services to maximize their profits. But the profit motive has just the opposite effect.
A manicurist who cuts off fingertips is not going to develop a faithful clientele. It is in his self-interest to provide a service that will result in continued patronage. As Adam Smith wrote in Wealth of Nations, ?It is not from the benevolence of the butcher, the brewer, or the baker, that we expect our dinner, but from their regard to their own interest.?
In contrast, the consumer is not served when a manicurist sitting on the state Board acts in his self-interest. In that capacity, his self-interest is to erect as high a barrier to entry as possible in order shut out competitors who might offer better or less expensive manicures. As a result, the regulations he will support have much less to do with health and safety than with protecting himself from competition. By law, the state Board consists of a licensed barber, licensed cosmetologist, licensed esthetician, licensed manicurist, licensed cosmetology school owner, an owner of a registered tanning facility and one public member.
While consumers are free to not patronize manicurists who sever digits, they are powerless to prevent the Board from issuing regulations designed to prevent competition and to bolster attendance in cosmetology schools. Gubernatorial elections are decided on issues such as education and taxes, not appointments to state agencies that most people may not even know exist.
But what about the poor consumer who has his fingertip severed by an avaricious manicurist? Isn?t it small consolation to him that market forces will protect other consumers from the same fate, and isn?t that why we need government regulation?
Licensing is not more of a guarantee against rip-off artists than market forces, however, because attending cosmetology school will not change a person?s character. Moreover, consumers would be more apt to check out businesses before patronizing them in the absence of licensing because regulation creates a false sense of security.
Licensing also is no guarantee against accidents and mistakes. While in theory compelling 300 hours of training may result in safer manicures, there is no empirical evidence that this theoretical benefit outweighs the higher costs to the consumer resulting from reduced competition and higher barriers to entry.
And even if licensing could be shown to reduce accidents or mistakes, what about the principle that what goes on between two consenting adults is none of the government?s business? Why should it just apply to s*x? Shouldn?t one be able to put his digits in the hands of an unlicensed manicurist, if that is what he wants to do?
While economic liberty may not matter much to the cultural elites, it matters quite a bit to those who are still climbing the economic ladder. Especially those with little capital and education. Unreasonable licensing laws prevent these people from climbing the economic ladder because it puts the bottom rungs out of reach.
If the Legislature and Governor really want to help working people, instead of raising the minimum wage, which is a hidden tax on business, they should repeal unreasonable regulations that make it harder for working people to realize the American dream and that hurt consumers."
Wow, they're talking about it in New Zealand?
Here's a picture Lexi Keyes drew for me at our May 23rd Meet and Greet at the Keyes' home.? Margot told me Lexi gave it to her and said "Mommy, here's a picture of the nice man that was in jail." :'(? :)
(http://www.ctgreatbay.com/files/Lexi%20Keyes%20Picture%20Small.JPG)
Aww :)
Is it showing you with long manicured fingernails?
I think those are hooks.....and I like the dress......but at least he is smiling.
Wow...That Lexi sure is a talented young Lass. That looks just like you Mike! :D
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 29, 2005, 10:55 AM NHFT
The New Zealand Herald
Police Arrest Man For Giving Manicure
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/index.cfm?c_id=466&ObjectID=10127476
I like the shopping bag in the picture with this article:
[attachment deleted by admin]
Foster's today. Sounds like one of those invaders from MA! ;)
Monday, May 30, 2005
Letters to the Editor - 5/30/05
Silly event was not worth covering
To the editor:
Foster's has covered a silly event while ignoring news of substance by placing a so-called Free Stater with an emery board on the front page while ignoring the 5,500 service men and women who have refused to go to Iraq or Afghanistan.
One wonders where these Free Staters were during the debates about Terry Schiavo and the Patriot Act. Where were they and where is Foster's during the upcoming trials of Kevin Benderman, who has already served once in Iraq, and Pablo Paredes? These men face courts martial and prison time for being men of conscience and refusing their call-ups.
This symbolic action by the Free Stater highlights the fact that they care more about the effect of government regulation on business than personal freedom. I doubt that Free Stater has ever been in a nail salon. I have, once, and observed the high level of hygiene practiced there. Existing regulations are meant to insure that the 1,000 salons in the state have manicurists who disinfect cutting tools between clients so as not to spread nail fungus, AIDS or any other infectious disease.
The last time the Free Staters got this much buzz was when the hummer-driving former Gov. Craig Benson Benson welcomed their invasion of the state.
Foster's is shirking its duty to cover all the news about the war in Iraq. Some are distracted by stories such as this one that you put on the front page, but most are not.
We are waiting for the media to cease this yellow journalism and bring us the stories that will help us engage in the reasoned debate that makes a strong democracy.
Pat Frisella
Farmington
Pat obviously does not realize that I organized anti-war protests in Burlington, VT before the war even began.
Besides, they probably covered Iraq on the front page the other 364 days out of the last year.? It's nice to read something about our own country, and even our own state, for a change.
QuoteThis symbolic action by the Free Stater highlights the fact that they care more about the effect of government regulation on business than personal freedom.
Pat will eat his or her own words after Russell's event.
War is a great diversion for the state to trample all over our freedom. This person proves it.
If we would have commented on the Sciavo case....they would have told us to keep out.
How was Mike's think not about personal freedoms? My wife got robbed of a manicure by the cops!
I only got 20 cents worth of that dollar I paid! :o
I bet Mike has spent plenty of time in a nail salon.
I must have missed this one:
Exeter Newsletter
May 24, 2005
Man should reimburse state and local agencies
To the Editor:
I am glad Mike Fisher has decided he is satisfied he made his point and no further action is necessary. I have a further action for you - Mike - how about reimbursing the state and local agencies that expended money and manpower for you to play your game?
With all this recent discussion about immigration, too bad we can?t deport people back to Vermont.
Chris Carr
Newmarket
Perhaps if people weren't arrested and imprisoned for filing fingernails, the state wouldn't need to spend any money on licensing, inspection, and enforcement.? There's a novel idea.? Why didn't I think of that before?? ?;D
If you don't think people should be arrested for giving a manicure, then eliminate the licensing laws.
Your idea would save taxpayers and licensees millions of dollars.
Quote from: russellkanning on May 30, 2005, 10:48 AM NHFT
Your idea would save taxpayers and licensees millions of dollars.
I'll have to patent the idea. ;)
...but then we have to keep open the patent office :-\
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 30, 2005, 10:45 AM NHFT
how about reimbursing the state and local agencies that expended money and manpower for you to play your game?
I agree if they didn't create stupid laws, than money wouldn't be wasted enforcing them, and besides who said this was a game?? Last time I checked standing up for personal freedoms and speaking out against government waste was no where near being a game.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 30, 2005, 10:45 AM NHFT
I have a further action for you - Mike - how about reimbursing the state and local agencies that expended money and manpower for you to play your game?
What expended money? The bureaucrats had to walk out of their office and serve Mike with their warning, and, the cops were on duty and being paid, before they got the call to collect him.
The local Dunkin Donut's might have some sort of claim for Mike's diverting the cops from their place, but. thats a legal stretch.
How about Gandhi reimbursing the British for arresting him for boiling saltwater?
How about Martin Luther King reimbursing the government for wasting their precious time beating black people on Bloody Sunday?
Maybe Jesus should have reimbursed those who wasted their precious time and tax dollars while nailing him to the cross. (I'm an atheist, BTW)
::)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 30, 2005, 10:45 AM NHFT
Exeter Newsletter
May 24, 2005
Man should reimburse state and local agencies
To the Editor:
I am glad Mike Fisher has decided he is satisfied he made his point and no further action is necessary. I have a further action for you - Mike - how about reimbursing the state and local agencies that expended money and manpower for you to play your game?
With all this recent discussion about immigration, too bad we can?t deport people back to Vermont.
Chris Carr
Newmarket
Here is my reply:
Dear Editor:
This is regarding the May 24 letter "Man should reimburse state and local agencies" by Chris Carr of Newmarket. Chris, this is not a game.
Is it justice to jail a man (me) for selling an unlicensed manicure to a customer (Kat) who wants to buy an unlicensed manicure? I was willingly jailed to prove that this is clearly an unjust restriction upon my economic freedom and the personal freedom of my customer. Kat and I only asserted our freedom and personal responsibility, but the law took those rights away from us in full view of the public.
Should Martin Luther King Jr have reimbursed the Selma police for spending precious tax dollars to beat Amelia Boynton Robinson and other civil rights activists on Bloody Sunday? Amelia knew she would suffer if she asserted her freedom by violating the law, but she obviously felt the self-sacrifice was worth it.
I am saddened that you are personally offended and would wish to deport me back to Vermont for this harmless act of self-suffering. It was never my intention to offend anyone. My real crime is that I want "too much" freedom for this country, and I plea guilty. I prefer too much freedom to not enough.
Mike Fisher
Newmarket
That was an excelent response Mike, I hope it gets published.
Thank you. ?Again.
I'm still learning somthing from all of this mess.
It is very easy for me to smile about the forward movment of my freedom.
Unfortunatly we have come to the point that these matters are moved forward at the price of your suffering. ?When the time is right, maybe Ms./Mr. Carr will see it to.
One reason why I smile is that there is still hope that others are willing to learn about freedom - yet sometimes my heart is heavy because I'm unsure.
" . . . Learning to read and to write is part of the fight
But for her it's somthing that's new
Down all of the years she's afraid of her tears
Imprisoned behind a black veil . . .
Soldiiers kicked down the door, called her a whore . . .
Internment tore them apart, brought her to the heart
Of resistance . . .
Her strugle is long, it's hard to be strong . . .
She holds the key to the unfinished revolution.
(Unfinished Revolution)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 30, 2005, 10:45 AM NHFT
Perhaps if people weren't arrested and imprisoned for filing fingernails, the state wouldn't need to spend any money on licensing, inspection, and enforcement. There's a novel idea. Why didn't I think of that before? ;D
If you don't think people should be arrested for giving a manicure, then eliminate the licensing laws.
You should write a letter to that same paper to that effect in reply to the good gentleman.
I see it as money well spent myself. While they were harrassing you they weren't harrassing others, at least right? ::)
Tracy
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 30, 2005, 07:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on May 30, 2005, 10:45 AM NHFT
Exeter Newsletter
May 24, 2005
Man should reimburse state and local agencies
To the Editor:
I am glad Mike Fisher has decided he is satisfied he made his point and no further action is necessary. I have a further action for you - Mike - how about reimbursing the state and local agencies that expended money and manpower for you to play your game?
With all this recent discussion about immigration, too bad we can?t deport people back to Vermont.
Chris Carr
Newmarket
Here is my reply:
Dear Editor:
This is regarding the May 24 letter "Man should reimburse state and local agencies" by Chris Carr of Newmarket. Chris, this is not a game.
Is it justice to jail a man (me) for selling an unlicensed manicure to a customer (Kat) who wants to buy an unlicensed manicure? I was willingly jailed to prove that this is clearly an unjust restriction upon my economic freedom and the personal freedom of my customer. Kat and I only asserted our freedom and personal responsibility, but the law took those rights away from us in full view of the public.
Should Martin Luther King Jr have reimbursed the Selma police for spending precious tax dollars to beat Amelia Boynton Robinson and other civil rights activists on Bloody Sunday? Amelia knew she would suffer if she asserted her freedom by violating the law, but she obviously felt the self-sacrifice was worth it.
I am saddened that you are personally offended and would wish to deport me back to Vermont for this harmless act of self-suffering. It was never my intention to offend anyone. My real crime is that I want "too much" freedom for this country, and I plea guilty. I prefer too much freedom to not enough.
Mike Fisher
Newmarket
Dude. Where's that Novel Idea? You should have written that if we didn't have these laws it would save the government, taxpayers, nad licensies a lot of money! It's really win/win/win situation for everybody conserned -- including the government when you think about it economically, like this.
Tracy
Quote from: tracysaboe on May 30, 2005, 09:03 PM NHFT
Dude. Where's that Novel Idea? You should have written that if we didn't have these laws it would save the government, taxpayers, nad licensies a lot of money! It's really win/win/win situation for everybody conserned -- including the government when you think about it economically, like this.
Tracy
Feel free to write it if you want to.
I only felt that my post was too obvious, sarcastic, and offensive.? That's not the message I want people to see, although I am apparently filled with sarcastic emotions. :-[
I have a lot to learn.
Quote from: John on May 30, 2005, 08:49 PM NHFT
Thank you. ?Again.
I'm still learning somthing from all of this mess.
It is very easy for me to smile about the forward movment of my freedom.
Unfortunatly we have come to the point that these matters are moved forward at the price of your suffering. ?When the time is right, maybe Ms./Mr. Carr will see it to.
One reason why I smile is that there is still hope that others are willing to learn about freedom - yet sometimes my heart is heavy because I'm unsure.
" . . . Learning to read and to write is part of the fight
But for her it's somthing that's new
Down all of the years she's afraid of her tears
Imprisoned behind a black veil . . .
Soldiiers kicked down the door, called her a whore . . .
Internment tore them apart, brought her to the heart
Of resistance . . .
Her strugle is long, it's hard to be strong . . .
She holds the key to the unfinished revolution.
(Unfinished Revolution)
Wow, that's amazing, John. :o You are a good man.
Do not give up hope. Even if we fail and fail again, we will pick ourselves up and continue. Liberty is inevitable.
I'll never give up hope - nor the smile.? We will live free - or die.
(btw,that poetry is from the Christy Moore album but my eyes are to tired to read the author's name.)
My eyes (nor legs, nor feet, nor mind & spirit) were to tired to climb around the rocks (for a few hours) and take some pics over at your coast on Sunday morning.? Some were even a bit "undergroud" from the eyes/lense of the profesional photo dude who was captureing the same morning.
I don't think I could give up even if I wanted to.
The NH coast is glorious.? We are home!
Apparently, it's not so obvious to normal people.
I'm not really in NH, so I'm not sure how apropreit it would be for me to write it. But anyway,
Tracy
Mike Fisher has a LTE response
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/06032005/letters/45646.htm
to a negative LTE
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/exeter/05242005/letters/44009.htm
Also Steve Cobb had an LTE published yesterday
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/06022005/letters/45462.htm
Quote from: SethCohn on June 03, 2005, 09:46 AM NHFT
Also Steve Cobb had an LTE published yesterday
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/06022005/letters/45462.htm
That, my young padain, is why you fail.
Quote from: katdillon on June 03, 2005, 09:49 AM NHFT
Quote from: SethCohn on June 03, 2005, 09:46 AM NHFT
Also Steve Cobb had an LTE published yesterday
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/06022005/letters/45462.htm
That, my young padain, is why you fail.
It's padawan, my dear, and every time the _FSP_ is incorrectly mentioned as the sponsor of _ANY_ activity in NH, expect an LTE from someone. That, my fellow activist, is why you get frustrated with the FSP... because it MUST do that.
"Neither Russell Kanning nor Mike Fisher has any authority to speak or act on behalf of the FSP, and the FSP did not authorize their actions; we found out in the press along with everyone else. "
When the lady asked me if I moved to NH because of the FSP...I responded "yes".
She calls us Free Staters.....big deal...I don't want to tell them what to call me.
Why does Steve Cobb think he is a "we" with respect to the FSP? Some of the members of the FSP knew about Mikes event before the paper wrote about it....since "we" are his friends. :) I wonder if moving to NH "vests" you enough in the FSP for Steve?
The article doesn't say that the FSP is planning any action.....they probably know better...the FSP doesn't "do" anything as far as they can see.....Free Staters do "do" things in the public's mind. :)
Quote from: russellkanning on June 03, 2005, 10:05 AM NHFT
The article doesn't say that the FSP is planning any action.....they probably know better...the FSP doesn't "do" anything as far as they can see.....Free Staters do "do" things in the public's mind. :)
Wrong.
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/05252005/news/44083.htm
Quote
In the meantime, the Newmarket activist is announcing that the Free State Project?s next planned public act of disobedience will be a federal case.
The Free State Project publicist announced that on June 11, Keene resident Russell Kanning will travel to Manchester Airport and refuse to cooperate with federal law requiring a show of identification.
Mike didn't (or shouldn't have) say that the _FSP_'s next act, nor is he an FSP publicist.
It's your job to keep the FSP connection (you don't speak for the FSP, do things for the FSP, etc) correct, not the reporters. They don't understand, you do. What's so hard about that?
Sometimes the reporters write things differently than we say them.
The FSP publicist is making sure everyone knows that the FSP doesn't do anything......job well done!
exactly
I also don't understand why Steve thinks civil disobedience is not the way to go.....it works...and there is injustice out there to oppose.....seems like a good idea to me. 8)
Quote from: SethCohn on June 03, 2005, 10:13 AM NHFT
It's your job to keep the FSP connection (you don't speak for the FSP, do things for the FSP, etc) correct, not the reporters.
It's not my job, cause I don't give a fuck. We are "freestaters" and we did plan this. I don't see anything wrong with what she said.
The reporter misreported. I never called myself an FSP publicist. It happens. She's still a good reporter. :) The FSP wanted me to correct her and I said I didn't feel like it, so they corrected her instead. That's all you're reading.
It is true that the FSP does not seem to support or oppose anything. I do not know if that has anything to do with the recruiting problem. It is definitely in their best interests to recognize our in-state successes, and they do on their front page.
I see no real problem with any of this. They do what they want, we do what we want.
If they oppose us, then start to worry.
Quote from: SethCohn on June 03, 2005, 09:46 AM NHFT
Mike Fisher has a LTE response
http://www.seacoastonline.com/news/06032005/letters/45646.htm
This was published in the Exeter Newsletter and the Portsmouth Herald today. :)
Oh well! ??? ?Hell, my karma be going down hill of late so why not say what I think! ;)
Hey, folks at FSP central command, do your thing and continue to disavowl anything we
do in NH. ?Hey, it's your call and have no problem with that. ?Fact is you are the bus that
got me to NH, and respect that. ?Truth is, without the FSP I would not be in NH and I
truthfully appreciate you guidance....But...now that I'm in NH going to do all I can to promote
freedom in NH. ?What you guys don't get with your intellectual pruity is that those of us who
have moved to NH are here to live the statement of intent. ?This is now our home!
Hey sorry, we jumped the gun and didn't wait for 20,000! ?Thinking when and if you get
to NH you will understand, until then...hey ?whatever? ???
We have been tagged as Free Staters, so hell what should we do? ??? ?What you folks who
are not here or play the intellectual game want us to do?
Hey sorry, know lots of the folks some are movers, but to my delite many are folks who live
in NH, and never were FSP members. ?We are all working together to promote freedom, and
what you folks don't understand that hey, sorry we all live in NH now, and could care less about
what club got us here. ?Only thing that is important is that you are here, and doing our best!
Get notes weekly from folks say. interested in the FSP, and what your doing....Sorry Mission Control,
not going to get into this long discussion of what the FSP mission is, and what we are doing. Just
going to say, hey....welcome and so much appreciate your help! :D
Thinking you folks at Mission Control need to stop worrying so much about what we are doing, and
spend a little more time in doing what you are suppose to be doing! ?I trust the folks here, and have
seen the results of there efforts....Perhaps you folks need to start trusting the folks a little more and
quite worry about what might go wrong! ?::)
Hey we have been tagged at Free Staters, by the press and many of the folks in NH....So what?
Please understand I only speak for me, but not going to spin my wheels, trying to explain about the
difference between???? ??? ? We just have so much more important and real things to do.
WOW. I get out of work early, and come home to this?
Quote from: katdillon on June 03, 2005, 10:54 AM NHFT
Quote from: SethCohn on June 03, 2005, 10:13 AM NHFT
It's your job to keep the FSP connection (you don't speak for the FSP, do things for the FSP, etc) correct, not the reporters.?
It's not my job, cause I don't give a fuck.? We are "freestaters" and we did plan this.? I don't see anything wrong with what she said.
Hey I didn't plan it :) - but someone (NHfree.com) was good enough to give me the heads up ;) - so I went out and supported it!
I still support it.
And, though no one asked me at Mike's WILDLY SUCCESFULL event, (shhhhhhh) yes I am a "freestater". Ok? Should I keep it a secret? ;D
There have also been some other events which I wasn't not as sure about.
So, want to know what I did about them. Nothing!
I shut the F... up
and stayed ut of the way. Isn't
that part of "my job"?
Oh BTW, One of those (other :-*) "events" has come to be a favorite of mine.
So come on home - and do what you do. Have some fun!
(Meenwhile, I think Kat has gracefuly included a thread here for ENDLESS . . . INACTION.) See you there. Not.
Has absolutely everyone except Seth forgotten that the Free State Project is a non-profit organization which is prohibited by law from supporting or opposing anything?
I suppose if you want 20 cents of every dollar to go to the federal and state taxmen instead of marketing efforts to recruit more signatories, then that'd be the cost for the ability of the FSP to issue position papers and support and oppose legislation and candidates.
But I thought that's what the NHLA was for.
Every single time we talk to the press, they ask if we moved to NH with the Free State Project. We tell them that what we're doing isn't because of the FSP. They print what they want. I don't see any reason to get in such a panic because they print stuff like this.
Perhaps because IRS revocation of 501(c)(3) status and the back taxes and fines that could result from that would scuttle the Free State Project corporation? Seems worthy of, if not panic, then prompt remedial action.
Quote from: president on June 03, 2005, 07:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: Scott Roth on June 03, 2005, 06:32 PM NHFT
I mean, afterall, most of the FSP higher-ups don't even live here.
Jason P. Sorens is moving to NY this fall to take a assistant professor appointment at SUNY-Buffalo.
Amanda Phillips plans on attending Harvard Law School for three years.
A year ago both said they planned on moving to NH in about a year......I'm not missing them.? ?:P
???
:(
?If I, as an individual, were to take a ploitical action and claim I was doing it on behalf of the Red Cross, could they take away the Red Cross's 501C3 status? No. It must be the Organization that takes the action. What is all the hullabulloo about, anyway?
The FSP doesn't have 501c3 status.
As of January they were applying for 501c4.
Promote the Underground! The FSP is about getting people to move, the Underground is about getting people to do stuff!
"Did you move here because of the Free State Project?"
"Well yes, but I'm doing this because of the [New Hampshire Underground/NHLA/etc], the FSP is just about convincing people to move here"
Quote from: JonM on June 04, 2005, 11:07 AM NHFT
Promote the Underground! The FSP is about getting people to move, the Underground is about getting people to do stuff!
"Did you move here because of the Free State Project?"
"Well yes, but I'm doing this because of the [New Hampshire Underground/NHLA/etc], the FSP is just about convincing people to move here"
For me no, I am moving for a better life which NH offers for my family and myself.
The people in the FSP and The NH Underground are a bonus? ?;D? It's nice to know we will be in good company.
FSP?
NHLA?
Underground?
I do all of my activism as a member of the Liberty Tree Society
Except
When I'm helping burn UN flags
Then
I'm a member of Democrats Concerned About The UN ;D
Liberty Tree Society? That bunch of freaks? They're always talking about and promoting Freedom! Don't they realize that the Government knows what is best for us? This America! The Land of Pork, remember?
You know, what you NH people need is a good mission statement.
So stop causing all this trouble and write one up will ya. >:D
Quote from: Pat K on June 05, 2005, 12:04 AM NHFT
You know, what you NH people need is a good mission statement.
So stop causing all this trouble and write one up will ya. >:D
Our Mission Statement:
To do what we want as long as we don't hurt anyone.
Quote from: president on June 04, 2005, 12:14 PM NHFT
Quote from: JonM on June 04, 2005, 11:07 AM NHFT
Promote the Underground!? The FSP is about getting people to move, the Underground is about getting people to do stuff!
"Did you move here because of the Free State Project?"
"Well yes, but I'm doing this because of the [New Hampshire Underground/NHLA/etc], the FSP is just about convincing people to move here"
::)
Did you read the SOI before you signed on to the FSP?
QuoteStatement of Intent
I hereby state my solemn intent to move to the state of New
Hampshire. Once there, I will exert the fullest practical effort
toward the creation of a society in which the maximum role of
civil government is the protection of life, liberty, and property.
Sorry, but that is more than just "convincing people to move here".?
Russell and Mike are following the FSP SOI.
Yes, I did.? When I move to New Hampshire I will do my best to fulfill my statement of intent, but it will not be at the direction of the Free State Project or anyone in its leadership.? There are those who think of the FSP as a political party when it is not.? There are those who think the FSP will direct the actions of the participants when it will not.? The FSP has a single purpose, to find 20,000 people willing to move to New Hampshire and follow that statement of intent.? It has never purported to instruct a person on how they should fulfill it. It is left up to the individual to decide what exactly the statement of intent means to him or her.? For Mike the fullest practical effort involves being willing to be arrested to prove a point.? There are those who might not believe their fullest practical effort includes incarceration.? It is not for any of us to decide if that is right or wrong, for such is the nature of personal responsibility.
Once 20,000 people have signed the statement of intent, the FSP?s days are literally numbered.? It will let everyone know that the time for the move is upon us, and help people link people to whatever groups might help them make the move, but that?s about it for what it will do.? Once the 5 years are up, the FSP is gone.? Some remnant may remain, but it will be groups such as this and the many others that will spring up over the upcoming years who help coordinate the people who want coordinate to work to fulfill the statement of intent, not the FSP.? So perhaps I should have said, "convince people to move here and work towards greater liberty."? I don?t see any instruction manual from the FSP on how to get to that society, and I think that?s for the best.? Allow people to come up with their own ideas and you?ll likely get far better results than by trying to direct them from on high.?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on June 05, 2005, 12:58 AM NHFT
Quote from: Pat K on June 05, 2005, 12:04 AM NHFT
You know, what you NH people need is a good mission statement.
So stop causing all this trouble and write one up will ya. >:D
Our Mission Statement:
To do what we want as long as we don't hurt anyone.
;D 8)
Just a point of reference... At the Meet and Greet, I played horseshoes with Mike, had conversation with Russell, helped Dave with some future organizing an event and in general we all get along, eat from the same table. etc... We might disagree on specifics... in fact, we probably DO disagree on some specifics... but we'll all here working in the same direction for the most part.
Never let that be lost amidst the general mayhem and sniping...
I respect Mike, Russell, and everyone else... for doing what they feel is the right way to achieve liberty. I might disagree with the specific, but I also support them to the extent that I know their hearts are in the right place.
It's pretty weird for me... instead of being the radical (as I usually was/am), I find myself far more the conservative voice, at least among the likes of many of you here... Amazing.
You won at horseshoes too, so you have my respect. ;) Of course we all get along. That is the nature of being civilized! We get along with people from all political backgrounds. Remember the NHLA Dinner protestors from DFNH? ;)
On this topic, I'm sick today so I was reduced to watching a PBS special on the rise of Mao Tse-Tung and the revolutionary movement in China.
For many years, people were expected to beat up anyone who did not pledge allegiance to the revolution. People refused to fight back to show the revolutionaries the error of their ways, but it did not work. The revolutionaries beat and tortured any who stood in their way.
After the revolutionary movement took over China, a newer generation of revolutionaries would do the same thing to the prior generation of revolutionaries, beating and torturing them. It was their duty. This went on constantly.
Their movement was fueled by anger, hatred, fear, patriotism, and collectivism. Their method was utter destruction and power. That should easily remind us of the current neocon jingoist movement in the US.
We are the antithesis of communists and jingoists. Our movement is fueled by love, hope, trust, individualism, and freedom. Our method is moral and just. I hope this much is true. We must be very careful to assure that we lead by example for nonviolent change. Gandhi had problems controlling violence as he became more successful and we will too.
Hey, Prez, don't you think tyranny is evil?
Quote from: president on June 05, 2005, 08:41 PM NHFT
I saw the same thing a few days ago, and it reminded me of the FSP. Everything you guys don't agree with is "evil". It's a group mentality thing.
::)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on June 05, 2005, 10:23 PM NHFT
Quote from: president on June 05, 2005, 08:41 PM NHFT
I saw the same thing a few days ago, and it reminded me of the FSP. Everything you guys don't agree with is "evil". It's a group mentality thing.
::)
Trampling over an idividual's rights is evil. It is sometimes 'ard to see.
This ain't about some group!
We I just want o try freedom - Can't we try that for a while?
THAT IS WHAT I WAS/we were PROMISED! Wasn't it?
I want my freedom.
Who the f*&% ever promissed anyone that they had a RIGHT to control others? people?
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050607/REPOSITORY/506070319/1224
Civil disobedience
Some protests do libertarian cause more harm than good.
June 07. 2005 8:00AM
Join the libertarian protest movement. Rip the "illegal to remove"tag off your mattress. Unleash your dog. Toss that apple core out the car window. Walk down the street backward and nude. Prove that you won't stand for government's muddy boot on your neck.
And politicians, be careful. Your votes to pass repressive laws that constrain the freedom of New Hampshire residents will not go unnoticed. On the legislative report card issued by the New Hampshire Liberty Alliance this spring, every member of Concord's House delegation was given a grade of F or F- . A few local reps fared better. David Currier of Henniker was given a C, as were Canterbury's Priscilla Lockwood and Frank Tupper. The best grade in the area, a solid B, went to Hopkinton's Stretch Kennedy.
For the record, it is only illegal for manufacturers and retailers to remove mattress tags. Mattress owners may do so with impunity. But such acts of defiance are roughly in the same league as the antics of the libertarian Mike Fisher of Newmarket. Fisher was arrested last month for performing a manicure without a license in front of the state office that licenses manicurists. Blows against the empire like Fisher's protest are part the legacy of former governor Craig Benson. Look for them to increase.
In one of Benson's many squirrelly acts as governor, he encouraged such antics when he welcomed members of the Free State Project with open arms. Free Staters, who are not affiliated with the official Libertarian Party, plan to move 20,000 like-thinking people to New Hampshire and slowly make inroads in government.
Later this week, as the Monitor'sDaniel Barrick reported on Sunday, libertarian Russell Kanning of Keene will attempt to board a plane at the Manchester airport carrying only a copy of the Declaration of Independence and the Bible. Kanning's libertarian convictions are strong enough that he was willing to publicly admit that he hasn't paid income taxes since 1998 and drives without a license because getting one is a nuisance.
John Babiarz, chairman of the New Hampshire Libertarian Party, calls such efforts great political theater. And they can be amusing, even though Kanning's messing with airport security strikes us as foolish.
But to those planning to make a statement, if you're going to park in a No Parking zone or perform surgery without a license, please don't invoke the names of Thoreau and Gandhi to justify your actions. Thoreau was protesting slavery and the war with Mexico when he was jailed. Gandhi was seeking to win independence for his country, not the right to cut hair for money without a barber's license.
Former Libertarian state representative Donald Gorman thinks goofy stunts performed to publicity harm the cause of those who are trying to increase personal liberty. He's right. The proper way to work for change is to do what Gorman did - get involved in government and try to change the rules. As much as it hurts to collaborate with the enemy, change comes most readily by working through the system.
Thoreau did say that "government is best which governs least," but there was more to his statement on civil disobedience. The sage of Walden Pond went on to say, "That government is best which governs not at all, and when men are prepared for it, that will be the kind of government which they will have." Despite what libertarians like Fisher and Kanning think, men -and women - aren't prepared
Thanks for the find Seth. 8)
I wonder who wrote the article.....does he want us to have more freedom than we have? He instructs us to work within the system....but to what ends?
Yeah well this Goverment is governing more and more every single day.
Thats not even hyperboyle ,every day some part of local state or city Goverment is adding laws and restricting our freedom.
If we are not fit to govern ourselves how in hell do they think we can choose those who are . They don't, they don't care what any mere citizen wants. Only the wise people of the Goverment and political establisment know what is good for you.
Don't make waves foolish little people, do as we tell you. Pay no attention to lost Liberty.
Since the gentlemen brought up Thoreau, Who here thinks that if he could see his fellow men now, that he would not be horrified. Horrified by our meek acceptance of over reaching authority.
Well if this be "Goofy" lets make the most of it.
Quote from: russellkanning on June 07, 2005, 06:01 PM NHFT
Thanks for the find Seth. 8)
If you haven't yet, you might want to go to http://www.google.com/alerts
and add a search for your name, so it'll notify you when these hit the web.
Also, Feedster, Technorati, and especially Pubsub for the blogosphere mentions.
Other mentions of Russell (thanks to Technorati):
http://suicidegirls.com/news/politics/8999/ (positive)
http://terry.kovax.org/archives/000326.html (negative)
http://noquarters.blogspot.com/2005_05_01_noquarters_archive.html#111704257349468784 (Positive, slightly)
<<Promote the Underground! >>
Yes, a simple solution for making everyone happy over this issue is just tell people you are with NHfree.com It worked great for us last week when the sentinel did a semi-story about our tax protest. They mentioned nhfree.com , but not FSP. That way it drives traffic here and also satisfies the bus purists.
My reply to the Concord Monitor Editorial:
For the Concord Monitor:
Gandhi and Thoreau comparisons are historically accurate
Dear Editor,
Hello, this is the "Outlaw Manicurist", Mike Fisher. This is regarding your "Civil Disobedience" editorial on June 7. You claim that our protests do more harm than good. I'm sure the same was said of Gandhi or Thoreau at one point in time.
For the record, Thoreau was not only a tax or war protestor. He believed the US government had no authority over him because governments are not voluntary, they are force. Gandhi was protesting for independence for his country (this is our goal as well), but his actions were simple and harmless, like boiling saltwater without a license. Thus, our actions and goals are very similar.
Russell Kanning's event is very similar to Gandhi's first protests. In South Africa, Gandhi organized civil disobedience to burn I.D. cards that were required for non-whites to travel. On Saturday, June 11, at noon, at Manchester Airport, Russell will protest against I.D. cards that are required for everyone to travel.
Remember, an I.D. was not required to pass airport security checkpoints until 2 months after 9/11, when the Aviation Security Act nationalized airport security. These laws are now secret, so he has no idea what law he will be breaking or what the punishment will be. Is that a morally acceptable system? And soon we'll have a National ID, just like China.
You may call Russell foolish, and you may believe that Americans are not ready for freedom, but what if you are wrong? History will be the judge of that, as it has proven that change comes most readily by refusing to work within the system.
Thank you for your coverage!
Mike Fisher
Newmarket, NH
Quote from: DadaOrwell on June 08, 2005, 09:05 AM NHFT
<<Promote the Underground! >>
Yes, a simple solution for making everyone happy over this issue is just tell people you are with NHfree.com? ? It worked great for us last week when the sentinel did a semi-story about our tax protest.? ?They mentioned nhfree.com , but not FSP.? ?That way it drives traffic here and also satisfies the bus purists.?
You could always tell them you're with
The Liberty Tree Society
A division of
New Hampshire Underground
A division of
The ACME corp.
Beep! Beep!
The Liberty Tree Society name belongs to ANYONE who wants to use it. :-D That was my intention ;-)
JP
I know
It has worked well for me!
seth wrote:
<< We might disagree on specifics... in fact, we probably DO disagree on some specifics... but we'll all here working in the same direction for the most part.>>
very cool seth :) yeah isn't that interesting...how roles switch...I am usually the voice of conciliation and wasn't even exactly a libertarian when I signed on but now I'm in the radical branch of a radical bunch. Important thing is we don't lose sight of the common goal and the ways we can take advantage of the things each other are doing. if we fight too much we are just making true the predictions of those who say freedom lovers can't work together.
Update on May 9th civil disobedience event:
I received a very positive call tonight about the event.
Apparently, a significant number of lawmakers and lobbyists have approached a certain liberty-oriented person in Concord regarding my arrest.? They are sympathetic to the cause and could not believe there are such laws on the books.
There is a plan to introduce a bill in September to create a commission to review business licensing laws and similar unjust regulations.
I told this person that I would not be willing or qualified to talk about licensing regulations, but I could help by giving this person some talking points.
I wonder if this really might go somewhere.? ?:)
Very cool Mike.
This sounds hopeful. Every step in the right direction helps us achieve our goals.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on June 09, 2005, 09:52 PM NHFT
seth wrote:
<< We might disagree on specifics... in fact, we probably DO disagree on some specifics... but we'll all here working in the same direction for the most part.>>
very cool seth :) yeah isn't that interesting...how roles switch...I am usually the voice of conciliation and wasn't even exactly a libertarian when I signed on but now I'm in the radical branch of a radical bunch.? ?Important thing is we don't lose sight of the common goal and the ways we can take advantage of the things each other are doing.? ? if we fight too much we are just making true the predictions of those who say freedom lovers can't work together.
Yeah my friends and wife think that I am a radical but compared to most of the people here I am super conservative.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on June 09, 2005, 10:51 PM NHFT
I told this person that I would not be willing or qualified to talk about licensing regulations, but I could help by giving this person some talking points.
I wonder if this really might go somewhere. :)
But you
are qualified to talk about licensing regulations. You proved that in Concord!
Talking points are the essence of the argument against licensing laws. Such laws do not protect consumers from malpractice. They harm consumers by limiting choice. They raise prices by limiting competition and increasing overhead. They harm business by restricting potential competitors. They empower state bureaucracy to engage in petty recrimination. They place those with conflicts of interest in a position to personally benefit from the regulations they impose.
You've spent two days in jail, and face another 30 days should you suffer a burned-out tail light in the coming year. All that for performing a simple file-and-buff, that millions of people do for themselves every day. It would be the same if you'd shampooed her hair, as almost everyone in America over the age of 10 does for theirself every single day of the week. And if Kat had worn shorts and a tank top, and you had shined a black light at her, even though she was already in the sunshine, you could have suffered the same penalty.
Mike, who BETTER to speak about licensing laws?
Take them up on it! Keep the initiative going!
Kevin
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on June 09, 2005, 10:51 PM NHFT
Apparently, a significant number of lawmakers and lobbyists have approached a certain liberty-oriented person in Concord regarding my arrest.? They are sympathetic to the cause and could not believe there are such laws on the books.
There is a plan to introduce a bill in September to create a commission to review business licensing laws and similar unjust regulations.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v427/jgmaynard/mr_burns.bmp)
Excellent, Smithers........
And YES, you ARE qualified, Mike.... You're a small business owner, AND I think that explaining the story from a first hand perspective will sway a lot of people on the committee, whose recommendation is all-important to it's passage through the legislature.
JM
I'm sure these lawmakers see the silliness of licensing for manicurists and hairwashers, but, we need to convince them to end business licensing altogether.
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, Lloyd..... :)
JM
They could first get rid of the overnight in jail penalty......then cheaper licenses.....then less training needed.....then no training.....then no license. :)
They should do all of that over the next month. 8)
Quote from: jgmaynard on June 10, 2005, 10:50 AM NHFT
And YES, you ARE qualified, Mike.... You're a small business owner, AND I think that explaining the story from a first hand perspective will sway a lot of people on the committee, whose recommendation is all-important to it's passage through the legislature.
It is very useful to let people know about the harm done by the law, but such harm is not the primary argument against the law.
The primary argument is this:
Licensing laws take away a consumer's rights and responsibilities in an attempt to protect him from small risks - risks that a responsible consumer will easily minimize on his own in the absence of these laws. These rights and responsibilities should not be taken away from us as consumers.That's it!
Do you really need me at all? :)
Yes we need you. It is much harder to ignore the words of someone who has been thrown in jail for something as ridiculous as giving a manicure without a license when they explain that these licensing laws go too far. If it's someone else describing your experience it will not hold as much weight as it would coming from you.
Point well received.
But from the perspective of the "primary argument" I outlined above, it is obvious that Kat's rights are the primary focus of our argument. Kat would be the best one to talk about her consumer rights and responsibilities. I suffered for her rights and responsibilities as much as for my right to start a business without the government's permission!
Quote from: jgmaynard on June 10, 2005, 11:15 AM NHFT
The journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, Lloyd..... :)
JM
I know that Jim, I just try to resist getting all giddy when I don't stumble during that first step ;)
Outlaw manicurist LTE in Monitor
To each his own, CALVIN PRATT, Goffstown - Letter
May 26. 2005 8:06AM
I
appreciate Bill Dampier's understanding of the event staged by the rogue manicurist Mike Fisher that led to his arrest (Monitor"My turn," May 24). It is truly a waste of limited government resources to pursue police and court action for the alleged "crime" of a voluntary manicure.
However, as the media contact for the Free State Project in this area, I must correct an error in Mr. Dampier's commentary. The FSP is a grassroots independent movement not affiliated with any political party. We welcome members from all parties who deeply care about the erosion of liberty that has occurred in this country in recent decades, which is why we have a large number of Libertarian Party members. However, the party itself is not associated with the FSP nor is our organization working actively to get Libertarian Party candidates elected.
Whatever goals our members pursue are entirely up to them. How could it be any other way if you truly respect freedom of choice?
CALVIN PRATT
Goffstown
Holy cow! Why didn't I think of this before?
I wonder if our friend being prosecuted in Hampton would be interested in a civil disobedience event where we do something to improve her house in violation of town zoning laws in full view of the public.
If we warn the Hampton ZBA in advance and invite them to the event, it could work. If you continue to do various improvements even after being warned to stop, you could be arrested.
Can you imagine how much press that would receive if it worked out? :o
It may be difficult to pull off though if the town tries to ignore it.
The Burbanks? Wouldn't it be the ladies who got punished rather than us?
Quote from: katdillon on June 12, 2005, 08:04 PM NHFT
The Burbanks?? Wouldn't it be the ladies who got punished rather than us?
Yes. The homeowner is liable.
The only way WE can get arrested is to do something that requires a license, like plumbing, without a license.
Yes, they would need to be the ones to organize and head up the event.? We could only provide advice and assistance.
If they're fined $185,000 and have no options left, they could choose to do this.
OR we could simply adopt this idea for a future anti-zoning civil disobedience at an Undergrounder's house in a highly-zoned area. If the action is harmless enough and the town reacts as it is supposed to, the outcome could be amazing.
For example, someone could paint their garage orange around halloween and paint it back in a few weeks.? ?;D
Not all of my ideas are good ideas!? But so what?? At least it's not boring on the NH Underground.? ;)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on June 12, 2005, 09:28 PM NHFT
If they're fined $185,000 and have no options left, they could choose to do this.
I like this!
move all of the plumbing outside of the house.
Maybe we should build a house for Lloyd in NH that is wonderful and spectacular in every way.......but violates every possible code. ;D
Quote from: russellkanning on June 13, 2005, 07:27 PM NHFT
Maybe we should build a house for Lloyd in NH that is wonderful and spectacular in every way.......but violates every possible code. ;D
:)
Quote from: John on June 13, 2005, 07:35 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on June 13, 2005, 07:27 PM NHFT
Maybe we should build a house for Lloyd in NH that is wonderful and spectacular in every way.......but violates every possible code. ;D
:)
Aye call it the cranky mans non-code cottage. ;D
My recent message to Bob Parsons, Founder of GoDaddy.com:
Mr. Parsons,
This is regarding the US government's recent ban on privacy for all .US domain names. I understand that you believe liberty should prevail in this matter.
Have you considered the concept of civil disobedience to defeat the government on this issue?
What do you think would happen if GoDaddy publicly announced that, on a specific future date, ALL .US domain name privacy that was originally removed will be reinstated, in clear violation of the new law? Even if they tried to stop you, they couldn't, because laws cannot stop outlaws. The publicity would be unprecedented.
Watch the movie Gandhi and you will see exactly what will happen. The government will enforce the law against you and it will make a fool out of itself in the process.
When the law is wrong, public nonviolent noncooperation is an option to show the brutality of the system.
Please visit our website for more information on civil disobedience.
Thank you very much for your time!
#3 Mike (NHFree.com) on May 27 2005, 09:45 Reply
Dear Mike,
If we did that, we'd be de-credited in a finger snap, and then our .US customers would be dealing with another registrar. Consequences are just too big, and we'd accomplish nothing.
Nice idea though.
Appreciate your post,
Bob
#3.1 bob parsons on May 27 2005, 14:20 Reply
They WOULD probably accomplish quite a bit by defying the law, but I don't expect the idea of nonviolent noncooperation to catch on quickly.
Besides, this is coming from the same Bob Parsons who thinks the government should control the placement of pornographic websites on the internet. ::)
My read on all this civil dis stuff so far...
Here are a couple things that seem to be happening with regard to the civil disobedience that's going on:
1) We seem to get the most sympathy when protests are conducted over innocuous things like manicuring
2) After a person gets arrested, it seems they usually feel a need to stand down for a while in terms of getting arrested again. This happens whether or not they planned to get arrested again (fortunately no one ever promised they would get arrested twice).
3) We also seem to have the most effectiveness when a civil dis protest is discussed on the forums for a week or two before being decided upon
4) Those initially unsupportive of a protest within our movement usually change their mind to some extent as the thing becomes reality. This happened to me big time...I was not sure manicuring was a good issue...and was wrong!
5) The initial reaction among average people on web forums at least is vicious attack, especially against the more serious protests. Then the attackers get counterattacked by garden variety freedom lovers and a reasoned debate springs up.
BTW on the "neutral" NH forums Kat appears to be getting better levels of approval than russell did before his protest
4 somewhat supportive (at least of the goal if not the exact method)
5 somewhat antagonistic (though some of those do say they want downsizing)
What is the history on controversial civil dis protests by small groups not supported by the majority? Seems like the 60s radicals got a lot of what they wanted and are now in positions of power to some extent. how about the greenpeacers?
Historically to what extent do potentially unpopular protests hurt or help the cause of the protestors?
We should think about these things I guess...
BTW I don't think I like the idea of a criminal solicitation protest since I am not sure criminal solicitation laws are necessarily anti-freedom?
Quote from: DadaOrwell on June 21, 2005, 07:46 AM NHFT
BTW I don't think I like the idea of a criminal solicitation protest since I am not sure criminal solicitation laws are necessarily anti-freedom?
Umm, Dada? 1st Amendment?
"Go smoke a joint!" - I'm breaking the law!
Laws restricing freedom of speech sure seem anti-freedom to me!
Quote from: DadaOrwell on June 21, 2005, 07:39 AM NHFT
My read on all this civil dis stuff so far...
Here are a couple things that seem to be happening with regard to the civil disobedience that's going on:
1) We seem to get the most sympathy when protests are conducted over innocuous things like manicuring
2) After a person gets arrested, it seems they usually feel a need to stand down for a while in terms of getting arrested again. This happens whether or not they planned to get arrested again (fortunately no one ever promised they would get arrested twice).
3) We also seem to have the most effectiveness when a civil dis protest is discussed on the forums for a week or two before being decided upon
4) Those initially unsupportive of a protest within our movement usually change their mind to some extent as the thing becomes reality. This happened to me big time...I was not sure manicuring was a good issue...and was wrong!
5) The initial reaction among average people on web forums at least is vicious attack, especially against the more serious protests. Then the attackers get counterattacked by garden variety freedom lovers and a reasoned debate springs up.
BTW on the "neutral" NH forums Kat appears to be getting better levels of approval than russell did before his protest
4 somewhat supportive (at least of the goal if not the exact method)
5 somewhat antagonistic (though some of those do say they want downsizing)
This is why I was thinking that when something like this is planned it is followed though with protested with signs outside of what ever jail the person is being held add the whole time they are held and continued in front of the court house until released.? It would garner more support and sympathy from all sides.? Imagine if when Mike was arrested and Kat threatened for the nail filling people had been outside of the jail supporting him and potesting rediculous laws how much publicity it would have garnered and what the common public would have said about someone being held in jail for such a rediculous thing.? Billy and I will volunteer to coordinate refreshments and food and do the running to stores and the like to make sure everyone there has what they need to get though the event, of course we will need help ;D We would need to make sure everyone was well cared for and if they have children or pets that they are cared for as well. The smaller issues would be easy to start with in the public eye and may carry more weight in changing laws than the larger issues.? What Russell did was great and took alot of courage but it is going to take alot more than that for the sheep to wake up and realize that it is not about the "protecting us" but controlling us.? The larger issues are always going to be the hardest. My fear is that by the time the public at large realizes what is going on it will be too late and we will be living in a replica of Nazi Germany. I don't know how many times I have had this discussion especially with my own family members and they say "oh that will never happen" they just don't realize it already is. Mike, Kat, and Russell have my deepest respect for trying to show people what we are comming too and where we already are.
Hey I did my part......others have to show up on the outside of the jail.....if we don't have that many liberty lovers.....it will just take longer :-X
Quote from: president on June 03, 2005, 07:34 PM NHFT
Quote from: Scott Roth on June 03, 2005, 06:32 PM NHFT
I mean, afterall, most of the FSP higher-ups don't even live here.
Jason P. Sorens is moving to NY this fall to take a assistant professor appointment at SUNY-Buffalo.
Did Jason buy a house in NY? :o
http://forum.freestateproject.org/index.php?topic=10415.from1121264283;topicseen#msg139825
Quote
Currently, I'm paying $4200 per year on a $125,000 home in a suburb of Buffalo, NY.
Time Magazine called today and interviewed me about the outlaw manicure event. :o
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on August 04, 2005, 01:12 AM NHFT
Time Magazine called today and interviewed me about the outlaw manicure event. :o
Whoooah!
How'd it go? Please give us a recap here. Interviews as perceived by those present seldom bear much resemblance to the published version. I'd like to see your summary of the interview.
Kevin
BA-Journalism
Arkansas Tech University, 1985
;)
Especially with the type of hatcheting and editing times does.
But I hope it went well.
Tracy
"Whoooah!"
Exactly what I said when I read that! :o
How do you twist the outlaw manicurist event to make it seem more nutty than it actually was? Every aspect of it bordered on surreal.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on August 04, 2005, 01:12 AM NHFT
Time Magazine called today and interviewed me about the outlaw manicure event. :o
Haaaaa...I am so new I did not know that was You, Mike : )
The "Mad Manicurist" !
May this 'Timely' interview add to forward momentum by getting the 'point' in front of some more
point-driven-action-oriented types of the third kind : )
Hey! Can I get Your autograph? HaHa! : )
Kevin, hehe okay here it goes.
Ellie Reeve was the Time Magazine reporter who interviewed me. Apparently, she had been doing a lot of research on me to find out the outcome of the event, but could not find any information about the result.
I explained that the nature of licensing laws are their insidious nature. Usually, only professionals realize that licensing laws are becoming more strict and broad, and they cover more professions every day. Then I told her that I spent a day in jail, there was a lot of media coverage on TV, radio, and in newspapers in New Hampshire and some in other states.
This media coverage obviously destroyed the insidious nature of the existing licensing laws, and exposed the practical effects for all to see. This, as well as the fact that we gained significant statewide support for our position, made the event a "resounding success." Those were her words to me.
I also explained that there is a bill being introduced soon to decrease licensing regulations and we have a sponsor for it.
She did not know about the New Hampshire Underground, so I told her the URL about 3 or 5 times. ;) She had not heard about Kat and Russell, so I explained Russell's event at Manchester airport and the resulting threats from the TSA for civil fines of $3,000 to $6,000. I also told her about Kat's rebellion and that her home may eventually be taken away because of her refusal to pay the school portion of property taxes.
She had not heard of either of those stories before, but she has now! :)
Ellie asked if we have more "events" planned, and I mentioned that we have many civil disobedience events planned for the future, and we hold many other events, such as weekly protests, gatherings, volunteer work, and more. I explained that I'm trying to push the movement toward nonpolitical action, volunteerism, and civil disobedience, but there is no conflict between us and the libertarian politicos.
She asked what I thought about the FSP and the Christian Exodus movement. This is what I believe the original idea for her story was. I told her it's the smart thing for everyone to vote with their feet and move to the state or country which best implements their ideals. At one point, someone from the christian exodus movement contacted us, I recalled, but I could not remember what they said. However, there is no animosity between our movements as far as I am aware, I explained.
I talked a little bit about the liberal migration to Vermont, the Mormon migration to Utah (of which I have first-hand knowledge from living in Utah for 15 years), and said I hope the FSP and Christian Exodus both succeed. There's apparently some type of libertarian migration in Europe, I said, but I could not remember much about it.
She specifically asked if FSP members were moving into New Hampshire from other countries. I could not say that many had moved yet, but several have been contacting us looking for jobs and other help moving in. In hindsight, I should have said that they will have a very hard time immigrating to New Hampshire without a job already lined up, because America no longer welcomes immigrants. ::)
The interview was about 20-25 minutes long. It made me late for a few hours of volunteer work at the New Outlook Teen Center, but they didn't mind!
Thanks, Mike!
I don't regularly read Time, so I hope we get a heads-up when this appears. It might very well be reduced to a snippet in another article. You never know; that's how the news business works.
Kevin
Cool!!
It would be good to have another reporter as a friend.
Time... moving up in the world.
I think that the FSP is getting more an more attention.
I got a phone call last night from someone in LA... they want to interview me and possibly film me packing my stuff up.
Quote from: Dreepa on August 05, 2005, 01:45 PM NHFT
Cool!!
It would be good to have another reporter as a friend.
Time... moving up in the world.
I think that the FSP is getting more an more attention.
I got a phone call last night from someone in LA... they want to interview me and possibly film me packing my stuff up.
That's awesome! Definitely do it if you're up to it!!! :) :)
Neat :)
There's an article in the August issue of Liberty magazine about a marijuana activist who has vowed to do a hunger strike, to the death if need be, if she's put in prison for having distributed magic cookies to fully informed individuals, for free.? She seems to feel confident that they'll just let her out of prison if it comes to that point, as nobody would want the image of a dead old cookie-baking lady on their record.? I don't know if she's right about that, but thought I'd pass it on. You can read the whole article for free here:
http://libertyunbound.com/archive/2005_08/brown-cookie.html
8)
even better if she wouldn't show up at court dates .... what a cool lady ... she is sure we will win ... I like that :D
Quote from: Friday on August 12, 2005, 06:11 PM NHFT
There's an article in the August issue of Liberty magazine about a marijuana activist who has vowed to do a hunger strike, to the death if need be, if she's put in prison for having distributed magic cookies to fully informed individuals, for free.? She seems to feel confident that they'll just let her out of prison if it comes to that point, as nobody would want the image of a dead old cookie-baking lady on their record.? I don't know if she's right about that, but thought I'd pass it on. You can read the whole article for free here:
http://libertyunbound.com/archive/2005_08/brown-cookie.html
That is AWESOME! She is absolutely brilliant!!! :) :)
Someone e-mailed me today and told me about this.? Check out the front page of FEE.org:
Foundation for Economic Education (http://www.fee.org/)
http://www.fee.org/
Nailing Free Enterprise (http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=7110)
8/16/05
On Monday, May 9, a man named Mike Fisher, from the town of Newmarket, New Hampshire, performed an act for which he will pay dearly under penalty of law. He engaged in a consensual commercial transaction with another willing individual.? More... (http://www.fee.org/vnews.php?nid=7110)
Woohoo!? Thanks, Gard!!!? ?:) :) :)
Gardner Goldsmith is a great writer!
That's great!
Do you need a license to braid hair in NH?
Quote from: katdillon on August 16, 2005, 04:27 PM NHFT
Do you need a license to braid hair in NH?
You probably need a barbering license. ::)
.... reading a couple of good books
Leo Tolstoy
Civil Disobedience and Non-violence
"M. Ghandi and L. Tolstoy Letters"
Maybe a day long event in front of the State Capitol. reading the Constitution, Jefferson's warnings about government, the right to revolution, excerpts from Gatto's book and other anti-public school books. Relate it to what has happened in NO.
Do you realize that I could get thrown in jail in Newmarket for watering my lawn?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 12, 2005, 02:56 PM NHFT
Do you realize that I could get thrown in jail in Newmarket for watering my law?
lawn?
Quote from: russellkanning on September 12, 2005, 02:56 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 12, 2005, 02:56 PM NHFT
Do you realize that I could get thrown in jail in Newmarket for watering my law?
lawn?
I bet they would suspend that one too :)
Quote from: russellkanning on September 12, 2005, 02:56 PM NHFT
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 12, 2005, 02:56 PM NHFT
Do you realize that I could get thrown in jail in Newmarket for watering my law?
lawn?
The cooking timer went off so I didn't have time to proofread it. ;)
Can you imagine being thrown in jail on statewide television for simply watering your lawn? :o :o :o
" . . . they can have my sprinkler when they pry it from my cold pruny fingers!"
-- The Outlaw Landscaper
Fisher said he would begin watering his lawn with a garden hose at noon on Monday.? He said he will continue watering his lawn, "until they force me to stop, or until I'm finished."
"Then I'll wash my cars with the hose as well, and I'll wash my friends' cars for free. I'll do this every week until forced to stop."
8)
This 'Outlaw Carwasher' is being held in Rockingham County jail...
Some guy in Swanzey got tasered for watering a lawn...but I think the police mostly objected to the hose he was using :o :o
Quote from: katdillon on September 12, 2005, 04:26 PM NHFT
Some guy in Swanzey got tasered for watering a lawn...but I think the police mostly objected to the hose he was using? :o? :o
Were they jealous? ;)
I bet you're right! There must have been a bit of envy going on there.
so why does the government not want you to water your lawn?
Quote from: russellkanning on September 12, 2005, 05:39 PM NHFT
so why does the government not want you to water your lawn?
There has been a "level 4 water ban" in Newmarket for a long time, maybe even since before I moved here. All outside water use is banned. You have to water your garden or wash your car with a small container of water. Some people secretly use their sprinklers at 3am, but generally tolerate the law.
The Exeter Newsletter recently had an article claiming the ban is killing our local gardening, plant, and hardware businesses. The Town Manager wants to keep the ban permanently. Paraphrasing him, "I don't see why we need to change it."
This is the same town that wants to build a new $30,000,000 school and scrap the existing one, spend over $8,000,000 on road construction to make our town look more like downtown Moscow, ::) and build a multi-million-dollar water treatment plant, just incase.
They want to "keep up with the Jones" and have services equivalent to nearby towns that have 3 times the population of Newmarket. ::)
Ugh. Don't get me started... :o
LR6, you've done it again. This sounds like a gread mass CD idea. Are there other porcs in Newmarket who would participate?
Install a gray water tank (basement or back of house and direct all rain gutters to it. Direct the overflow to a normal drain path away from the house. Use this water for those times when you need it. Size the tank as you see fit.
As an aside, I was walking through Concord at the end of August to read meters. It was raining and there was one business' automatic sprinklers working.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 12, 2005, 09:39 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on September 12, 2005, 05:39 PM NHFT
so why does the government not want you to water your lawn?
There has been a "level 4 water ban" in Newmarket for a long time, maybe even since before I moved here.
why .... don't you pay for the water?
what is this vegas or something? water restrictions in NH :o
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 12, 2005, 09:39 PM NHFTThis is the same town that wants to build a new $30,000,000 school and scrap the existing one, spend over $8,000,000 on road construction to make our town look more like downtown Moscow, ::) and build a multi-million-dollar water treatment plant, just incase.
onion domes ..... big pictures of government leaders .... military marching around .... the works?
Downtown Moscow:
(http://www.moscow.com/images/gallery/FriendShip_SE_l.jpg)
Looks just like Burlington, VT. :o
Downtown Burlington, VT:
(http://joeadler.com/images/pics_dntwnBurlington123104.jpg)
That's the problem with socialism. In this case, city-wide water socialism. If private entities competing in a free market were providing water and sewage services, then there wouldn't be a water shortage. Rates would rise and lower and supply and demand changed.
In other words, in a free market Fisher would be perfectly free to water his lawn. It would just cost him about twice as much money. -- Actually id would probably be about the same, because private companies don't have all the beurocratic largass that government sponsored monopolies have. Plus the competition would drive prices down ones it was free-marketized.
Tracy
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 13, 2005, 05:01 PM NHFT
Downtown Burlington, VT:
(http://joeadler.com/images/pics_dntwnBurlington123104.jpg)
Looks like downtown anywhere in America around Chanukah time, including Monterey, CA if you take away the slush.
Here's another civil dis idea I had...two weeks late and 2,000 miles too far away but worth keeping in mind for future...
Go to a new orleans entry checkpoint with a gun and the intent to deliver it to one of the disarmed residents. Then tell the media and the authorities in advance you're going to do it, when and where.
Maybe too late to do it for N.O. (and I'm not willing to go that far and miss a week of already scheduled work) but perhaps it's something we could do in this area if needed.
http://www.periodico26.cu/english_new/world/gitmo170905.htm
Increased Number of Hunger Strikers at Guant?namo
Washington, September 17 (RHC)-- The number of hunger strikers at the U.S. Naval Base in Guant?namo has increased, as 11 more detainees have now joined the protest action. The strike began over one month ago and currently involves 131 detainees, according to Major Jeff Weir, a spokesman of the prison camp.
Twenty-one protesters were hospitalized at the prison's clinic due to their deteriorated health and, according to the spokesman, 20 of them are being administered saline solutions.
The prisoners are protesting their indefinite detention, noting that many of them have been held for more than three years without any charges being filed against them. Some have even threatened to starve to death if they are not released or brought to trial.
According to officials at the naval base, located in eastern Cuba and illegally occupied by the United States, the strike began last August 8th by 76 detainees, but in the course of one month, the number of strikers has increased and now involves over one-fourth of the nearly 500 detainees there. However, human rights groups place the actual number of strikers at 210 -- nearly one hundred more than the official U.S. figures.
Human rights organizations have long denounced what they call a "legal limbo" for detainees at the Guant?namo Naval Base prison, without even being given the right to a lawyer.
The strikers want to call public attention to their precarious conditions at Guant?namo, as well as constant torture and humiliations they are subjected to by U.S. soldiers.
That's great news, Kat. 210 Gitmo prisoners of war show the world the true value of fasting. They also show us what the US is all about by refusing to cooperate with their captors. 8)
Quote from: katdillon on September 18, 2005, 04:39 PM NHFT
Twenty-one protesters were hospitalized at the prison's clinic due to their deteriorated health and, according to the spokesman, 20 of them are being administered saline solutions.
This is why you must consume water and salt during a fast. You need salt intake as much as you need water. Your body needs salt to stabilize blood flow and your brain needs it for signal processing. A water and salt fast is a pure fast by most standards.
isn't the point of fasting like that to die slowly?
Well they can't allow the serfs into the masters meeting ,now can they?
I just finished an interview with Larry of The Wire. They're doing a front page feature on the FSP soon. :o
He also asked for some of our pictures from the outlaw manicure event. :)
This should be interesting! :)
He's welcome to use any photos on the underground.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 19, 2005, 10:20 PM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on September 19, 2005, 09:02 PM NHFT
isn't the point of fasting like that to die slowly?
Yes.
Actually a fast that goes longer then 3 days, and even as long as 30, can actually be quite cleansing and benificial.
Tracy
Is it time yet for an anti-postal monopoly civil disobedience?? ?:)? Spooner never went as far as breaking the law to create a Private Postal Express.? It would be a novel act of civil disobedience.? ?:D
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050927/ap_on_go_ot/postal
Postal Service Expects $2B Deficit in '06
Tue Sep 27,12:26 PM ET
WASHINGTON - Even with a planned postage rate increase, the Postal Service expects to go nearly $2 billion in the red next year.
Postal Chief Financial Officer Richard J. Strasser told the agency's board of governors on Tuesday that rising costs will result in a $1.8 billion deficiency in 2006.
The agency plans a 5.4 percent rate increase in January, which would raise the cost of sending a first-class letter by two cents ? to 39 cents.
"We project revenue of $72.3 billion, an increase of 3.4 percent, to be offset by a like percentage increase in expenses," he said.
Strasser said the agency plans cost reductions of $1.1 billion, including work-hour reductions of 42 million hours. But, he noted, the post office also faces a congressionally imposed requirement to place $3.1 billion in an escrow account.
Strasser also noted that costs are now expected to be higher than originally planned when the rate increase was approved by the board
The postal fiscal year begins Oct. 1.
At the meeting the board also approved a transformation plan for the agency through 2010.
"We will continue to reduce costs by improving efficiency in all our operational and business processes," said Postmaster General John E. Potter. "We will bring service performance to even higher levels. We will use the best technology to make the mail a rich source of information both for our customers and our operations managers. We will achieve all this with an energized, customer-focused work force."
Board Chairman Jim Miller noted that the constantly changing business world affects the post office.
"We cannot predict how events halfway around the world, or in our own backyard, will affect our costs. We cannot predict the final form of postal reform legislation ? or even if it will occur," he said. "But we can do our best to prepare for the impact of these external factors. We understand that our plan must be dynamic and adaptable. It must help us manage and succeed through periods of uncertainty."
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 27, 2005, 11:30 PM NHFT
...
But, he noted, the post office also faces a congressionally imposed requirement to place $3.1 billion in an escrow account.
...
Why does Congress want this? Is it another "account" they can raid?
Quote from: tracysaboe on September 13, 2005, 06:28 PM NHFT
That's the problem with socialism. In this case, city-wide water socialism. If private entities competing in a free market were providing water and sewage services, then there wouldn't be a water shortage. Rates would rise and lower and supply and demand changed.
In other words, in a free market Fisher would be perfectly free to water his lawn. It would just cost him about twice as much money. -- Actually id would probably be about the same, because private companies don't have all the beurocratic largass that government sponsored monopolies have. Plus the competition would drive prices down ones it was free-marketized.
Tracy
all the surface water over 20 acres and all the underground water is owned in common with the state as the public trustee in NH.
Yeah, you keep telling yourself that Bill.
Tracy
Been reading Tolstoy lately ..... he talks about how neither violent revolution nor gradualism within the system has ever worked .... only the simple refusal of people to work for or with an evil system can succeed.
Things certainly worked out in his country.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on September 29, 2005, 12:08 PM NHFT
Things certainly worked out in his country.
Tolstoy had more influence over India than Russia, primarily because of Gandhi.
Will Russia ever have a Gandhi of its own? I hope so, but I doubt it. That country has been a despotism from the beginning of time.
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on September 29, 2005, 01:12 PM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on September 29, 2005, 12:08 PM NHFT
Things certainly worked out in his country.
Tolstoy had more influence over India than Russia, primarily because of Gandhi.
Will Russia ever have a Gandhi of its own? I hope so, but I doubt it. That country has been a despotism from the beginning of time.
Definitely culture is a large factor. How many other places in the world have a "Live Free or Die" motto and a right to revolt in black and white on the founding documents? ;)
I'd heard Russia has a large private security sector. It would seem that's only necessary if there's not a prominent respect for property in the culture.
I compare the Russia of now to the US in the 20s.
There are lots of security firms there because there is a large 'mafia' contingent.
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on September 29, 2005, 12:08 PM NHFT
Things certainly worked out in his country.
yea things were not too good even before the commies violently revolted.
Russle I didn't even know any of Tolstoy's books were still in print.
What titles do you have, and how do I get ahold of them?
TRacy
They are online and in a thing called a library ..... where you can get books printed from 1900. I would also guess they are still printing War and Peace. ;)
I have three Tolstoy's books on my shelf.
I am looking at them.
Hell even Oprah had her book club read one.
One of his best:]
The Death of Ivan Ilyich.
Here is a link for him:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-5397215-7566548
I find him even more helpfull than Gandhi, because there are more cultural similarities with us.
Just watched a great documentary on Non violent action, Where there is Hatred, done by Gene Sharp. He founded a non violent institute, The Albert Einstein Institute, which turns out to be in Boston. http://www.aeinstein.org/
Quote from: katdillon on October 06, 2005, 06:59 PM NHFT
Just watched a great documentary on Non violent action, Where there is Hatred, done by Gene Sharp. He founded a non violent institute, The Albert Einstein Institute, which turns out to be in Boston. http://www.aeinstein.org/
and the chair is from NH...too bad her ideas on land is not compatible with the FSP, huh?
Cornelia Sargent
Chair
Cornelia Sargent is active in numerous activities throughout New England. She is Vice-President of the Cold Pond Community Land Trust in Acworth, NH, and a Conservation Dictrict Supervisor in Sullivan, NH. She has done legal internships at the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources, the Disability Rights Center, and New Hampshire Legal Assistance. She has also worked with Stephen Speicher, the past president of the American Blind Lawyers Association. She is currently mediating as an intern in a small claims court towards a 450-hour mediation certificate from Woodbury Colllege, Montpelier, VT.
Ms. Sargent received her B.A. from Smith College and her J.D. from Northeastern University School of Law.
/shrug I could tell from the movie that they had a socialist bent, I was just interested in their ideas on non-violent change.
Quote from: Hankster on October 06, 2005, 07:38 PM NHFTand the chair is from NH...too bad her ideas on land is not compatible with the FSP, huh?
Since when has that determined anything?
How about we hold a trial for George Bush? >:D
Quote from: Hankster on October 06, 2005, 07:38 PM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on October 06, 2005, 06:59 PM NHFT
Just watched a great documentary on Non violent action, Where there is Hatred, done by Gene Sharp.? He founded a non violent institute, The Albert Einstein Institute, which turns out to be in Boston.? http://www.aeinstein.org/
and the chair is from NH...too bad her ideas on land is not compatible with the FSP, huh?
Cornelia Sargent
Chair
Cornelia Sargent is active in numerous activities throughout New England. She is Vice-President of the Cold Pond Community Land Trust in Acworth, NH, and a Conservation Dictrict Supervisor in Sullivan, NH. She has done legal internships at the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources, the Disability Rights Center, and New Hampshire Legal Assistance. She has also worked with Stephen Speicher, the past president of the American Blind Lawyers Association. She is currently mediating as an intern in a small claims court towards a 450-hour mediation certificate from Woodbury Colllege, Montpelier, VT.
Ms. Sargent received her B.A. from Smith College and her J.D. from Northeastern University School of Law.
The thread hijackings have already begun. ::)
Found this free pdf book...
Seems to have potentially successful strategies.
On Strategic Nonviolent Conflict: Thinking About the Fundamentals
by Robert Helvey
On Strategic Nonviolent Conflict delves into the question of how to build a strategy for nonviolent struggle. Covering a variety of topics?such as ways to identify a movement?s objectives, preparing a strategic estimate for a nonviolent struggle, and operational planning considerations?this publication contains insights on the similarities between military and nonviolent strategy. It represents a major new contribution to this field of study. Additional topics covered in the book include psychological operations and propaganda, contaminants that may affect the efficiency of a nonviolent movement, and providing consultations and training for members of movements and organizations.
Albert Einstein Institution - Policy & Outreach > Current Projects and Publications - 002 On Strategic Nonviolent Conflict
download link for pdf file (760k)
http://www.aeinstein.org/organizations/org/OSNC.pdf
A quote as introduction to the book,
On Strategic Nonviolent Conflict: Thinking About the Fundamentals
by Robert Helvey
"All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity, but the dreamers of the day are dangerous men, for they may act on their dream with open eyes, to make it possible."
T.E. Lawrence, Seven Pillars of Wisdom
Dedicated to those who dream by day of victory over tyranny.
Quote from: Dreepa on September 30, 2005, 08:24 AM NHFT
I have three Tolstoy's books on my shelf.
Here is a link for him:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-form/102-5397215-7566548
Better link: read them all for free
http://books.mirror.org/gb.tolstoy.html
One of the things I notice when many people in the mainstream look at what they suppose is "non-violent" change, is that it is typically pro-socialist, pro-fascist, or generally pro-state statute/regulation. I find it amusing that those who believe that using the coercive and, in the end, potentially violent force of the state to enact what they see as positive change, see this as "non-violent".
That's the basic problem with institutes like the Einstein Institute. Their members cannot distinguish between true non-violence, or the attempt to enact legislation that reduces the coercive powers of the state, and what they see as "peaceful" action through voting, etc., that has as its end game the increase of state influence over peoples' lives.
Even as we see "peaceful demonstrations" by those who are supposedly non-violent, they are working towards the use of aggression, not volition.
Just a thought about our cousins on the other side.
:D
I noticed that in the little movie we were watching. There were doing some great things in the Phillipines, but then they started whining about needing more welfare and stuff like that ::) No one's been doing this saying, "Let's get rid of the tyrant, and replace him with nothing."
Quote from: Gard on October 07, 2005, 10:43 PM NHFT
One of the things I notice when many people in the mainstream look at what they suppose is "non-violent" change, is that it is typically pro-socialist, pro-fascist, or generally pro-state statute/regulation. I find it amusing that those who believe that using the coercive and, in the end, potentially violent force of the state to enact what they see as positive change, see this as "non-violent".
That's the basic problem with institutes like the Einstein Institute. Their members cannot distinguish between true non-violence, or the attempt to enact legislation that reduces the coercive powers of the state, and what they see as "peaceful" action through voting, etc., that has as its end game the increase of state influence over peoples' lives.
Even as we see "peaceful demonstrations" by those who are supposedly non-violent, they are working towards the use of aggression, not volition.
Just a thought about our cousins on the other side.
:D
Gard! Where ya been?
Yours is a good observation. I'll merely point out that there is another subset of non-violent protestor, those who have opted out of the political process altogether, such as the UFO from Keene. :)
I don't know that it's possible to effect change in the political world while shunning politics, but folks such as Russell do engage in non-violent process hoping that what they oppose winds up replaced by nothing at all.
Kevin
So far the books I have read by Gene Sharp have been fine. He doesn't come from the same angle as Thoreau/Tolstoy/Ghandi but he is fine as long as he doesn't advocate big government.
The Whiskey Rebellion
by Murray N. Rothbard
http://www.lewrockwell.com/rothbard/rothbard1.html
"The Whiskey Rebellion, then, considered properly, was a victory for liberty and property rather than for federal taxation. Perhaps this lesson will inspire a later generation of American taxpayers who are so harried and downtrodden as to make the whiskey or stamp taxes of old seem like Paradise."
Wow, the Rothbard essay says:
"No local juries could be found to convict tax delinquents. "
It was paradise.
I like to think we had something to do with this.? ?>:D? Will this become one of our first major legislative successes?? ?:)
License to build: Let's hope we never require one
Monday, Nov. 7, 2005
A LEGISLATIVE study committee decided late last month that New Hampshire did not need to license contractors. Lawmakers would do well to heed the committee's advice.
Though many Granite Staters, like residents of every other state, have reported being ripped off and taken advantage of by bad contractors, the solution does not lie in licensing.
Licensing creates a significant barrier to entry into the field. In New Hampshire, lots of young people earn extra money in the summer months by hiring themselves out to do handiwork. State licensing would erase opportunities for many of these enterprising youths. And it eventually would raise prices by reducing competition.
The committee recommended the right approach, which is to require signed agreements for home repairs, standardize the building code, and post on the state Web site the names of contractors and construction firms convicted of ripping off consumers.
By requiring enforceable contracts and informing citizens who the bad contractors are, the state can improve service while avoiding the pitfalls that come with licensing.
http://gamma.unionleader.com/article.aspx?articleId=c0ebeefa-f9c6-4ca8-a860-0680769e8ba1
8) 8) 8)
I think this is an indirect result of the outlaw manicure event.
As Gandhi said, nonviolent noncooperation is a method of educating public opinion.? ?;)
Isn't it funny that NH has licensing for hair, but not houses.
I guess that shows you what part that lady played in starting the cosmetology bureaucracy.
They have inspectors for houses, something that could, easily be done by the market. But, could you imagine having to stop a hairdo, every step, to get the inspector to look at it!
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on November 09, 2005, 08:02 AM NHFT
They have inspectors for houses, something that could, easily be done by the market.? But, could you imagine having to stop a hairdo, every step, to get the inspector to look at it!
If you look at subparagraph 3 on the new code changes page 57 you will see we changed the rule. This hair style now calls for a number 3 size roller. while you used the previsly allowed nuber 2 size. The number 2 size will not stand up to 200mph winds. You will complete the roller chnge out in the next 3 min or be fined 100 dollars.
Educating public opinion is like planting a seed. You give people an idea and one day, they will find a way to apply the concept.
That's what I believe is happening now with contractor licensing. Any of us could have written the first half of that Union Leader editorial. You can attribute this to "common sense", but word for word this editorial EXACTLY mirrors the quotes from our outlaw manicure event that made statewide news.
A noncooperation event with amazing success may cause massive popular noncooperation, quickly get a law repealed, or even nonviolently topple a government.
A noncooperation event with great success plants the seeds of freedom for decisions to be made in the near future.
This is why we should plan these things out and discuss them with our liberty-oriented friends before making decisions on how to proceed - so our message in the media is clear and concise.
We'll be fighting that proposed law again, several times, in the future :-X
I've been following the argument for contractor licensing in the Berlin Daily Sun. Folks at the council meeting were all in favor of it, because a widder woman got stuck paying for substandard work on a porch.
I started to write my own LTE, and ask if they'd never had a bad haircut by a duly licensed barber or beautician. ::)
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on November 10, 2005, 01:05 PM NHFT
Educating public opinion is like planting a seed.? You give people an idea and one day, they will find a way to apply the concept.
That's what I believe is happening now with contractor licensing.? Any of us could have written the first half of that Union Leader editorial.? You can attribute this to "common sense", but word for word this editorial EXACTLY mirrors the quotes from our outlaw manicure event that made statewide news.
A noncooperation event with amazing success may cause massive popular noncooperation, quickly get a law repealed, or even nonviolently topple a government.
A noncooperation event with great success plants the seeds of freedom for decisions to be made in the near future.
This is why we should plan these things out and discuss them with our liberty-oriented friends before making decisions on how to proceed - so our message in the media is clear and concise.
Mike I like your thinking. :)
Kind of cool to maybe influence the course of events.
How's it feel to leave a mark in history? Your action lives on in pictures and words.
History belongs to the doers and risk-takers.
National Association of State Contractors Licensing Agencies
http://www.nascla.org/members.htm
This association includes 24 states as members. Building contractor licensing may be more widespread than that, but this is the minimum.
I'm going to prepare a press release about one of the FSP's first major legislative successes as soon as lawmakers reject building contractor licensing as the committee has recommended.
We're going to take partial credit for rejection of this new licensing law only 6 months after our highly-publicized civil disobedience event. :)
After this licensing is rejected, I'll give the press release to all of my press contacts and CALL them all, including WMUR who can rerun the video footage if they desire. This could get a lot of coverage for our movement.
Do you think the FSP will cover this?
Quote from: LeRuineur6 on November 11, 2005, 07:28 PM NHFT
National Association of State Contractors Licensing Agencies
http://www.nascla.org/members.htm
This association includes 24 states as members.? Building contractor licensing may be more widespread than that, but this is the minimum.
I'm going to prepare a press release about one of the FSP's first major legislative successes as soon as lawmakers reject building contractor licensing as the committee has recommended.
We're going to take partial credit for rejection of this new licensing law only 6 months after our highly-publicized civil disobedience event.? :)
After this licensing is rejected, I'll give the press release to all of my press contacts and CALL them all, including WMUR who can rerun the video footage if they desire.? This could get a lot of coverage for our movement.
Do you think the FSP will cover this?
Wow... good idea Mike. :D
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.
Leo Tolstoy
That fits me so well .... I try to change other people's minds instead of just doing the right thing myself.
It seems like the way to revolutionize the world is by actually changing the way we live.
I can't convince the government to ignore me. I have to just ignore them.
Quote from: russellkanning on December 11, 2005, 04:36 AM NHFT
Everyone thinks of changing the world, but no one thinks of changing himself.
Leo Tolstoy
This is a very difficult and worthy goal. Far more easily said than done. With living independently, for example, try to imagine how much wisdom has been lost or forgotten over the years that we must rediscover!
Quote from: russellkanning on December 11, 2005, 04:36 AM NHFT
It seems like the way to revolutionize the world is by actually changing the way we live.
Changing myself is definitely a higher priority for me. Nonviolent civil disobedience is a large method of living the way you want, but it also affects others.
http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tolstoy/iwu.html
Conclusion: Repent Ye, For the Kingdom of Heaven is at Hand.
From the book The Kingdom of God is Within You
I am currently rereading this. It is so simple. Every person needs to do the right thing.
Quote from: Michael Fisher on September 27, 2005, 11:30 PM NHFT
Is it time yet for an anti-postal monopoly civil disobedience? :) Spooner never went as far as breaking the law to create a Private Postal Express. It would be a novel act of civil disobedience. :D
I like the idea. I wonder if we could run a mail service in NH and make money.
No
Wow this is a long thread. I haven't read all of it, but since I read the "Tobacco Tax Bill jan 17" .. I've got an idea.
Growing/selling tobacco independently? Selling for a price to cover the cost of growing and time spent doing it. We could get a small amount grown, roll it into cigarettes and sell it publicly as an act of civil disobedience, to protest high tobacco taxes.
Probably less of a threat than marijuana.
I bet you could do it even simpler .... if all your wanting to do is make a point. You could get any untaxed cigs and sell them in NH without collecting any taxes. :)
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 16, 2006, 07:09 AM NHFT
No
Thank you for your informative input into the discussion. The committee kindly thanks you.
Quote from: russellkanning on January 16, 2006, 11:13 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 16, 2006, 07:09 AM NHFT
No
Thank you for your informative input into the discussion. The committee kindly thanks you.
Short, concise, packed with meaning. Excellent!
Quote from: AlanM on January 16, 2006, 11:18 AM NHFT
Quote from: russellkanning on January 16, 2006, 11:13 AM NHFT
Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on January 16, 2006, 07:09 AM NHFT
No
Thank you for your informative input into the discussion. The committee kindly thanks you.
Short, concise, packed with meaning. Excellent!
What is it about the word "No" that you don't understand?
What?s a Christian Soldier To Do?
by Laurence M. Vance
http://www.lewrockwell.com/vance/vance68.html
http://www.catholicworker.com/ah_love.htm
One man's experiences in jail.
Last Message to Mankind
By Leo Tolstoy
http://cyberspacei.com/jesusi/authors/tolstoy/lastmessage.htm
Police storm rebel Mexican town
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=5249
True, here is the BBC story:
Mexican police retake riot town
Mexican police say they are now in control of the town of San Salvador Atenco after a day of clashes with locals armed with machetes.
Six police officers taken hostage by the rioters had been released, state of Mexico officials said on Thursday.
A teenage boy was killed and dozens of people were injured in the riots which lasted throughout Wednesday.
The violence erupted when three street vendors were arrested on suspicion of trading without permits.
Local residents are then reported to have attacked police with machetes and petrol bombs, and blocked the main road.
Police fired tear gas into the crowds and used batons. Dozens of protesters were arrested - among them a prominent peasant movement leader, Ignacio del Valle.
Boy's death 'unclear'
Local reports say up to 50 police officers were injured in the clashes - a number of them seriously.
Six of them were taken hostage by the armed protesters, who later handed them over to the Red Cross.
Officials in the state, which borders Mexico City, said the circumstances surrounding the death of a 14-year-old boy were unclear.
Police said they had managed to make it into the centre of town at about 0700 (1200 GMT) on Thursday and had re-opened the road.
An estimated 4,000 federal and state police are reported to be in Atenco area.
The town was the scene of violent protests in 2002, when local farmers opposed the construction of a new international airport for Mexico City.
Plans for the airport were cancelled after days of pitched battles with police.
Story from BBC NEWS:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/go/pr/fr/-/2/hi/americas/4974116.stm
Published: 2006/05/04 17:19:17 GMT
? BBC MMVI
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When Im discouraged or depressed at political unresponsiveness,
I look at that picture of the riot-clad police - out of breath - and running from an angry sea of citizens,
and I feel much better. :toothy10:
A teenage boy was killed and dozens of people were injured in the riots which lasted throughout Wednesday.
Cannon fodder.
Take notice Matt.
When your number gets called, you might consider, not responding?
your rational friends in the underground might forgive you.
If your still breathing and not requiring medical assistance that is. ;)
The solutions afforded the bullet while cheap, are somewhat permanent.
Choose wisely.
Quote from: TackleTheWorld on May 07, 2006, 09:33 AM NHFT
When Im discouraged or depressed at political unresponsiveness,
I look at that picture of the riot-clad police - out of breath - and running from an angry sea of citizens,
and I feel much better. :toothy10:
Made my day... thanks for the picture ;D ;D ;D
Uniform...$150
Riot gear...$500
Realizing that the people are not going to take your oppressive assaults on their liberty anymore...Priceless ;D
QuoteAn estimated 4,000 federal and state police are reported to be in Atenco area.
That's what you get with violence: perhaps you win liberty for a little while, but reality will catch up with you.
That said, selling flowers is a great idea for an act of nonviolent noncooperation against vendor permit laws.
QuoteThat's what you get with violence: perhaps you win liberty for a little while, but reality will catch up with you.
My point exactly. (I think it was in the other thread though.)
Tracy
Quote from: Michael Fisher on May 09, 2006, 07:45 AM NHFT
That said, selling flowers is a great idea for an act of nonviolent noncooperation against vendor permit laws.
With a note attached to each flower declaring to be a protest against vendor permits and that all proceeds go to benefit the LSF!
Cathleen
:)
I've not read this thread since I-don't-know-when, but was thinking that before today turrns into from the 9th, I should say Thank You Again to Mike Fisher.
Mike, You and others here have set my mind & heart in a new direction. For me, the transition is . . . just . . . well, what can I say . . . I'd just like to think that I was there at a starting line & and that maybe I'll be with you all at the finish.
I know that some of you will tell me that when I just get off of the damned tread-wheel that you will be there waiting. But, I just can't seem to stop yet. However, as I run, I keep thinking that you guys & gals might just have it right. Maybe I was there at the finish, and just haven't chosen to see it yet.
I'm not-at-all religious, but lately I can't seem to think of better words than the ones which keep coming into my head when I think of you all: God bless them!
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May 9th, 2005
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Cool. This is much more creative than my typical strategies of vandalism and petty theft 8-) Just kidding. Seriously though, there are suposedly some surveilance cameras in a particular area of socal that I'd probably disable assuming I knew where they were and could do it in a relitavely low-risk way. That said, keep up the good work!
Like Ghandi said .... little acts of terrorism or gorrilla warfare or vandalism are tempting, because they are easy and they can't watch us all. But we have to use the same means as the ends we are trying to achieve. If we want a society free from force, we have to take that path.
I bet CD in regards to public cameras would work out really well in your town.
Quote from: John on May 09, 2006, 10:03 PM NHFT
Thank You Again to Mike Fisher.
Mike Fisher is the reason we first visited NH.
Mike Fisher is the reason we decided to become early movers.
Mike Fisher is the reason I began studying Gandhi and other non-violent strategies.
Mike Fisher's posts have more creedence on this board is one who actually puts his ideas into action.
Mike Fisher's efforts broke me out of prison.
We love ya, Mike.
You guys are inspiring new people all the time, keep it up. The more exiting things happen in NH, the more we talk about it on my show, the more people hear it, and decide to join!
It's a wonderful cycle!
Did they happen this week?
Thank you, John, Lauren, and Jim. :)
I really appreciate it.
Well the Mexican incident wasn't really civil disobedience. It was street warfare. The picture's definitely worth keeping.
I guess people in Mexico are getting sick of the socialism. Is this the same group of people who fought the Mexican government when they tried to take their land?
Quote from: citizen_142002 on May 10, 2006, 10:59 PM NHFT
Well the Mexican incident wasn't really civil disobedience.
It was uncivil disobedience -- it has it's place too. ;D
Tracy
Quote from: freedominnh on May 10, 2006, 11:17 AM NHFT
Remember Kent State and Waco
Quote from: russellkanning on May 10, 2006, 02:16 PM NHFT
Did they happen this week?
Kent State shootings: May 4, 1970.
Waco fire: April 19, 1993.
Quote from: KBCraig on May 11, 2006, 01:47 AM NHFT
Quote from: freedominnh on May 10, 2006, 11:17 AM NHFT
Remember Kent State and Waco
Quote from: russellkanning on May 10, 2006, 02:16 PM NHFT
Did they happen this week?
Kent State shootings: May 4, 1970.
Waco fire: April 19, 1993.
I recall a generational anthem, "4 Dead in Ohio" (which is still played today) vs. a national silence for 86 Dead in Wako. Shame on this/my generation. :-[ Wako fire? I call it:
BIG Brother and Clinton's comming
We've never been on our own
This summer I hear no drumming
More dead in old Wako
Got to get down to it
Government's cutting us down
Should have begun long ago
What if we knew and found them dead in floor
How can we run when we know??????????????
Quote from: citizen_142002 on May 10, 2006, 10:59 PM NHFT
Well the Mexican incident wasn't really civil disobedience. It was street warfare. The picture's definitely worth keeping.
I guess people in Mexico are getting sick of the socialism. Is this the same group of people who fought the Mexican government when they tried to take their land?
I've come across socialists who are claiming that the mexicans in this town are rabid socialists, and they were chasing off the police in protest of the mexican government not being socialist enough.
That is possible, but not having selling permits doesn't sound like much of a socialist to me. :)
Quote from: Michael Fisher on May 12, 2005, 09:21 PM NHFT
Okay, guys and girls, I've figured out what I'm going to do if my 30-day sentence is triggered by a minor traffic violation.
[
Mike, how did the probation thing go?
You dodged trouble for a whole year?
Does that mean it's time for a new round of CD?
Zowie!
Saw the movie Gandhi this week for the first time.
For a couple days I was sold on that non-violent strategy.
Gandhi had a logic that was more defiant than submissive.
He liked to openly defy unjust laws and publicly provoke authorities.
At a meeting of Indian immigrants in South Africa Gandhi describes the new law
providing for fingerprinting of all immigrants, and allowing police to enter the dwellings of immigrants without warrant.
(Yes, I thought it sounded familiar, too.)
Men jump up swearing that they will kill police if they try to enter their home.
Gandhi praises their courage, and says, "I too am willing to die, but there is no cause for which I would be willing to kill".
"They may arrest me, beat me, break my bones. They may kill me, then they will have my dead body, but not my obedience".
That is stand-up defiance, not lay-down submission.
I'm all in favor of defiance and provocation of evil,
and I could absorb my opponent's anger if it seemed he was starting to see the wisdom of stopping.
But I could not possibly ask other people to do it, like Gandhi did.
I can't understand why Gandhi would intentionally provoke the authorities so they would display violence, then told the people to be peaceful when they tried to defend themselves. Does he want violence or not?
To paraphrase him, I too am willing to die for this cause, but there is no cause for which I would be willing to get unwilling, innocent people killed.
At least warfare has the courtesy to announce where it is and let non-combatants get out of the way.
Did I miss something?
I can see what you are saying.
Another thing that comes up in that movie alot is Gandhi wanting to direct the attitude and actions of all those people. It makes more sense to me to live life a certain way and see if others follow you. I can't stop others from undertaking a violent revolution.
But overall the means and end that are portrayed in that movie are powerful and moving.
That movie had quite an impact on us, too. I saw his provoking violence as just demonstrating for onlookers the true nature of government - force. In each instance, the government had the choice of non-violent reaction, yet they didn't take those opportunities for the most part.
Quote from: katdillon on May 17, 2006, 05:02 AM NHFT
That movie had quite an impact on us, too. I saw his provoking violence as just demonstrating for onlookers the true nature of government - force. In each instance, the government had the choice of non-violent reaction, yet they didn't take those opportunities for the most part.
the Quakers called speaking truth to power "bearing witness"...
http://www.afsc.org/news/quaker-action/fall2004/bearing-witness.htm (http://www.afsc.org/news/quaker-action/fall2004/bearing-witness.htm)
the civil rights movement used it very effectively to portray via television to the their fellow citizens the brutality of the police
Seven Congress members arrested in Sudan protest
Tue May 16, 2006 5:34 PM ET
WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Seven African-American members of the U.S. Congress were arrested on Tuesday at the Embassy of Sudan, where they were protesting atrocities in that country's Darfur region.
The members of the Congressional Black Caucus held a news conference in front of the embassy property, then moved to block the entrance to deliberately prompt their arrests, said Christopher Johnson, spokesman for North Carolina Democratic Rep. Mel Watt.
"It's time for the members of the Congressional Black Caucus and the world community to raise the ante on Sudan," Watt, the caucus chairman, said in a statement.
Also arrested were Democratic Reps. John Lewis of Georgia, Barbara Lee of California, Eddie Bernice Johnson and Al Green of Texas, Gwen Moore of Wisconsin and Washington, D.C., Delegate Eleanor Holmes Norton.
The lawmakers were led away in plastic handcuffs and paid $50 fines, Johnson said.
"We must not forget that while we consider what to do, the situation on the ground is worsening for the millions of people affected by the crisis," Lewis said in a statement.
Five other members of Congress were arrested last month at the Embassy of Sudan protesting the Darfur situation after deliberately going on embassy property.
U.N. and U.S. officials have accused the Sudanese government of arming marauding Arab militias, who have raped, pillaged, and killed tens of thousands in Darfur, and driven more than 2 million villagers into squalid camps. Sudan has denied the charge.
The Khartoum government and the biggest faction of the rebel Sudan Liberation Army signed an agreement on May 5 aimed at stemming the violence, but a rival SLA faction and a smaller rebel group have refused to sign.
The international community fears the accord will not stop the war if only one rebel faction supports it. Refugees have rioted against the deal in several camps in Darfur.
The CBC members called for a U.N. peacekeeping mission to help the African Union mission control the violence, for President George W. Bush to press Sudan to release food aid to help people in Darfur, improved civilian protection and return of refugees, and full implementation of peace agreements.
More proof that the dems and liberals are just as globalist as the repubs and conservatives.
tracy
Civil Disobedience Shuts Down School Board Meeting
http://www.surfsantamonica.com/ssm_site/the_lookout/news/News-2006/May-2006/05_19_06_Civil_Disobedience_Shuts_Down_School_Board_Meeting.htm
One of the officers went to the back of the room and ordered the kids to leave.
?I don?t want to say I?m the big bad cop but do what I say and move downstairs,? the officer?s voice carried through the crowded chambers.
Felix remained immobile and expressionless. One of the kids, a tall, Latino young man wearing a chain and a white T-shirt yelled, ?Unite?
A kid in the audience repeatedly yelled, ?Do what you want!?
Another yelled, ?Why don?t they call the fire department when our classes are crowded and we?re sitting on the heaters??
An Asian kid with blunt cut hair high-fived a smiling white girl in front of Felix.
The police officer?s face clenched. ?Let?s go!? he shouted.
The kids, about five of them, made a human wall around Felix, who still hadn?t said a thing or changed his expression. It seemed their action was spontaneous -- it didn?t look like he?d said anything to them.
Having a vision of a non-violent world:
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/articleview/3488/1/187/
A small body of determined spirits fired by an unquenchable faith in their mission can alter the course of history.
Mohandas Gandhi
An ounce of practice is worth more than tons of preaching.
The only way to overcome evil is to let it run itself to a standstill because it does not find the resistance it is looking for. Resistance merely creates further evil and adds fuel to the flames. But when evil meets no opposition and encounters no obstacle but only patient endurance, its sting is drawn, and at last it meets an opponent which is more than its match. . . . By willing endurance we cause suffering to pass. Evil becomes a spent force when we put up no resistance. By refusing to pay back the enemy in his own coin, and by preferring to suffer without resistance, the Christian exhibits the sinfulness of contumely and insult. Violence stands condemned by its failure to evoke counter-violence. Dietrich Bonhoeffer, THE COST OF DISCIPLESHIP
"Some have said that we marched in the Sixties and got the VRA, we marched in the Seventies and the war went away. We should march again. That's probably true. But the custom nowadays is for marches to look more like picnics, and for everybody to go home the next day. That's not how it worked in Belarus or the Philippines and it's not how it worked here forty years ago. Back in the day, people stayed in the street till something changed. A march is one day. A movement continues till it obtains a victory or something changes. Or until misguided leaders send it home."
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=30&ItemID=10580
Quote from: russellkanning on July 17, 2006, 01:46 PM NHFT
"Some have said that we marched in the Sixties and got the VRA, we marched in the Seventies and the war went away. We should march again. That's probably true. But the custom nowadays is for marches to look more like picnics, and for everybody to go home the next day. That's not how it worked in Belarus or the Philippines and it's not how it worked here forty years ago. Back in the day, people stayed in the street till something changed. A march is one day. A movement continues till it obtains a victory or something changes. Or until misguided leaders send it home."
http://www.zmag.org/content/showarticle.cfm?SectionID=30&ItemID=10580
Perhaps these folks are overestimating the righteousness and popular appeal of their cause.
I've always thought it would be fun to go to a bank and demand the Federal Treasury to repay it's debt to what ever currency one could bring in. What kind of container would you need to hold "the faith of the US government to repay it's debt"?
Protesters 'plan' non-violent ways to oust Chen
2006/8/26
The China Post staff
The "depose-Chen" campaign organizers emphasized yesterday the movement to oust President Chen Shui-bian will proceed under the supreme principles of "love and non-violence" with an aim to set up a model of democracy and deepen the democratic system in Taiwan.
The organizers made public a 10-point action guideline for all people who plan to take part in the massive sit-in led by former Democratic Progressive Party (DPP) Chairman Shih Ming-teh.
More than one million people from all walks of life, including government employees and teachers as well as police officers and military servicemen, have each remitted NT$100 or more to support the cause out of the belief that Chen should step aside so that Taiwan will not remain lame for another two years.
Only a portion of the financial donors will physically join the mass rallies in Taipei because they still have to report to work.
But more than 100,000 are expected to show up at least on the first day and it will be a daunting challenge for the organizers to maintain peace and order while avoiding confrontation with police or provocations.
The guidelines tell the protesters to always maintain a friendly attitude, including treating those who oppose the campaign with sympathy and understanding.
Other key points include:
Bring no weapons or anything that can be used as a weapon to the gathering ground.
Bring no home-made slogans or placards that do not conform with the ones produced by the organizers.
No fighting back, shouting back or revenge and malicious criticisms when encountering violent conduct.
Obey the decisions of campaign leaders and the organizing panel.
Prepare for the naming of substitutes for the campaign leaders whenever necessary.
Accept arrest and surrender to law enforcement officers instead of fighting against them.
Uncooperative conduct will be taken only when the dignity of the participants or partners is smeared.
To ensure the success of the campaign, the organizers will also ask all participants to sign an oath pledging to achieve the goals of "fighting corruption, saving Taiwan, and deposing Chen Shui-bian under the principles of perseverance, discipline, love, and non-violence with an aim to set a democratic model and deepen the democratic system in Taiwan."
Prof. Ho De-fen, spokeswoman for the campaign, conceded it would be a staggering challenge to direct such a large number of people with diverse backgrounds.
She joined the condemnation of former DPP Legislator Lin Cheng-chieh who drew the "first blood" between anti-Chen and pro-Chen camps by punching and kicking pro-DPP political commentator Chin Heng-wei during a live political talk show on Formosa TV Thursday night. Chin needed several stitches for his broken nose.
Ho named Lin a persona non-grata for the campaign led by Shih.
According to Ho, Lin had suggested that a team of bodyguards be organized to protect Shih's safety during and before the sit-in. Ho added that Lin's suggestion was rejected immediately by campaign organizers despite reports that fanatics could take action against Shih.
"We condemn any act of violence," Ho said.
She stressed that supporters of the depose-Chen campaign are not political activists resorting to violence.
Lin enthusiastically backs the campaign to oust President Chen, thinking that Chen has betrayed both the DPP and the people by deviating from the principles of diligence and integrity.
He explained that he was forced to give Chin a warning after Chin constantly cut in and blocked his talk when the moderator gave the time allotment for his turn.
Many analyst cast doubts on Shih's peaceful strategy to unseat Chen considering the president's strong determination to hang onto the power.
Prof. Ho said the bank accounts receiving people's monetary contributions have been closed.
But she said people or enterprises may still help produce campaign banners with slogans calling for Chen's resignation or fans bearing the thumb-down depose-Chen logo.
People or organizations wishing to deliver supplies or materials may ship them directly to the plaza near the Presidential Office when the rally officially gets under way because Shih and other organizers have no storage facilities.
Exactly when the sit-in will start, Ho said that the time will be announced soon pending the exact timetable of activities to be adopted by President Chen.
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Betty Krawczyk on Civil Disobedience
BETTY KRAWCZYK ~ The First Time is Scary. It's true. Doing something important the first time is scary, whether it's sex, inviting the boss for dinner, getting behind the wheel of a car, or committing your very first act of civil disobedience.
But hold on, you may say. The first three instances are legal, right? As long as it's non coercive and between consenting adults? Civil disobedience is another matter. Besides having a bad reputation, civil disobedience is against the law, right?
Not exactly. There is no law against civil disobedience as such. However, many different actions of civil disobedience are described in law books as obstructions of one kind of another that citizens might indulge in when they get fed up with business as usual. Which is exactly what happened
at Eagleridge Bluffs. Gordon Campbell's promise of "The Greenest Olympics Ever" while he was in the very act of blasting Eagle Ridge Bluffs to bits was just too galling.
Nobody wants to find themselves afoul of the law. Nobody wants to stand before the icy stare of a judge who is displeased with them. It's not comfortable. But let's look at the big picture. When citizens are willing to take the responsibility of civil disobedience, civil disobedience evolves
into the body of law. Instead of civil disobedience threatening the structure of law, it actually strengthens it.
How's that? Civil disobedience strengthens the law? Yes. The history of the evolution of law that governs human rights is primarily the history of civil disobedience. It is citizens, by their actions, who turn unjust laws into just ones, not the courts or the legislatures. In Louisiana (raised there) I witnessed how civil disobedience of the black people morphed into laws of equality for all races. And I've studied the history of the WOBBLYS (our first unionists) who were jailed and even killed for trying to legalize unions. And along with these pioneers were all the women who resorted to civil disobedience in order to gain the vote, or even be considered persons under the law. First Nations? Look at their history
of trying to regain some of their ancestral lands in BC. Civil disobedience is huge for them. In some areas it is the only way First Nations have made any gains.
In fact, every law and ruling in the criminal code and the charter dealing with the humane treatment of citizens is either the direct result of, or has been heavily influenced, by some group of citizen's previous civil disobedience. And because of this sensitivity to the evolution of law (never seriously taught in history books, or even in law schools for
that matter) I actually love the law. And because I love and respect the law, I want its language to reflect an accurate description of what I did at Eagleridge Bluffs.
I blockaded a roadway. I want to be charged for blockading a roadway, which is covered under the criminal code and the Highways Act. I did not blockade the court. I did not feel contempt for the court. I did feel contempt for Gordon Campbell's lying promises (still do) and his utter lack of respect for Canadian (BC) sovereignty, and contempt for Kiewit and Sons, a US firm who doesn't even mention the environment in their braggadocio and who wants BC citizens to pay for their court costs, I also feel a healthy contempt for the way Sgt. Almas arrested me and others, waiting for a foreign company to order our arrest rather than arresting immediately, if he thought we were breaking the law. And Attorney General Wally Oppal? He is the one who instructs police on how they should arrest, and why is he under
the control of a foreign company?
In spite of this stacked deck (alliance between courts, police, Kiewit and Sons and Gordon Campbell) we accused have a right in court to declare that we are not guilty of the charge of contempt of court. We all have the right to say that section fifteen of the Charter of Rights and Freedoms guarantees everybody equality under the law and that when the contempt of court charge (which stands outside the Charter and the criminal code) is used to place us into a special category where there is no defense, then that's wrong.
We also have the right to use section 2b of the charter, which protects the right of citizens who attempt to give meaning to others when involved in protests. Certainly, all of the Eagleridge protectors were trying to convey meaning that is, trying to make sense out of a mercenary provincial premier using the Olympic banner to hide eventual multi billion dollar deals with private foreign contractors.
We, as citizens, have a right to fight for our rights under the charter, and for our complaints to be taken seriously. All of us arrested at Eagleridge Bluffs, have an absolute right to plead NOT GUILTY in the courtroom. We have a right to ague that we shouldn't even be accused of contempt of court, that the charge itself is wrong. And in this process we may be influencing the law, even nudging it forward.
Anything is possible.
Betty Krawczyk 604-255-4427
A protest at the provinical legislature on Friday, in which Zackie Achmat and 43 other members of the Treatment Action Campaign were arrested for trespassing, was merely the start of a civil disobedience campaign to obtain, among other things, the axing of the national minister of health.
http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=14&click_id=125&art_id=vn20060821012516197C707129
I was in Vancouver this summer when a CD protestor jumped up on top of the logging equipment that was building the road up to the olympic village that Betty is protesting.
the police just waited til the guy got tired of ranting and then arrested him...
Quote from: Kat Kanning on April 11, 2005, 08:21 PM NHFT
A cadre of liberty ladies going to a nursing home and, in defiance of the law, shampooing the old ladies hair for them.
So, I was interested in this NH free speech thing. I'm 21. Then I read you want to do this. Please don't, i'm sure your "ladies" will have no idea how delicate an elderly persons skin and hair is. thats why we need licensed people who are t r a i n e d professionals.
please don't get that confused with a law u wish to destroy.
the alcohol thing, thats federal, and i really can't think of a better way to express your liberty!! omg wait! what about strapping a bomb to your chest, either way, people from outside your clique are going to lable you idiots for drawing attention via drugs & minors. perhaps u wana just expose your pot plants & scream the bible said consume herbs!!
i will say, your actions are wrong, but what you are trying to achieve is right. i sure as hell won't go to iraq if i cant buy whiskey first.
edit: go to the high schools, find all the 'to-be' marines 18-20. let a police officer find a GROUP of them being drunk in public (you're dumb if the cop finds any bottles or suppliers) get the shit on youtube. label it "how to have fun in iraq" and maybe throw some other tag words in.
sorry for the rant post..i'm a nurse and the unlicensed elderly care set me off :o
Quote from: k0balt on December 31, 2006, 11:23 PM NHFT
i'm a nurse and the unlicensed elderly care set me off :o
So, how many CE credits do you have in shampooing? How many nursing school clinical hours were devoted to hair care of the elderly?
Answer: zip. Any "training" consists of what you just said: "They have delicate skin. Be gentle and careful."
Not to mention that nurses rarely do that type of patient care; CNAs handle such things. LVNs are a vanishing breed, and RNs are spread very thin, overseeing more patients, with CNAs handling almost everything that doesn't require a medical judgement.
So forgive my skepticism of your "defense" of licensing.
But other than that, welcome to the forum.
Kevin
:)
since you're awake and i'm still curious, can you point me to the forums that show what kinda law reform, any members in the local government seats?? i saw some flag burning site and was scared
Sounds to me like you're in the wrong place.
Welcome k0balt. Don't worry about the flag burn. The folks doing that are not aggressors.
As far as law reform, government types, your best bet would probably be New Hampshire Politics (http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?board=5.0). There is not much activity there right now but it will start picking up after Wednesday when the legislature starts its new session.
Another place you might try is the NH Liberty Alliance (http://www.nhliberty.org).
Again, welcome.
Quote from: k0balt on January 01, 2007, 02:59 AM NHFT
i saw some flag burning site and was scared
be afraid ... be very afraid
Life as you know it will no longer exist.
Welcome? We don't need people like that coming to NH.
Quote from: k0balt on December 31, 2006, 11:23 PM NHFTPlease don't, i'm sure your "ladies" will have no idea how delicate an elderly persons skin and hair is.
I am sure they would.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 01, 2007, 07:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: k0balt on December 31, 2006, 11:23 PM NHFTPlease don't, i'm sure your "ladies" will have no idea how delicate an elderly persons skin and hair is.
I am sure they would.
Yeh, before there were Laws about it, little old ladies suffered tremendously from caring relatives washing their hair.
None of us who haven't the piece of paper giving us permission from the government - we don't have mothers or grandmothers or great grandmothers, we've never had infants to care for. Sheesh.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 01, 2007, 07:34 AM NHFT
None of us who haven't the piece of paper giving us permission from the government - we don't have mothers or grandmothers or great grandmothers, we've never had infants to care for. Sheesh.
Without that piece of paper we are obviously evil and destructive, or worse, ignorant! ::)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 01, 2007, 07:26 AM NHFT
Quote from: k0balt on December 31, 2006, 11:23 PM NHFTPlease don't, i'm sure your "ladies" will have no idea how delicate an elderly persons skin and hair is.
I am sure they would.
They use me for testing
::shrug:: With two half-days of training at a summer camp, training given by someone who was unlicensed herself, I was giving old men with cerebal palsy showers, changing their diapers, putting on their condom catheters (on them :P ), and even SHAVING them. And that was the first day. K0balt, licensing is, for the most part, a racket that keeps the costs of care very high by artificially decreasing supply; I know of what I speak.
As for flag burning, what is wrong with flag burning? Surely the act itself can't be evil: the VFW posts do it (it is how to properly dispose of a flag). The people who did the flag burning would never aggress against you. They're too busy planning the revolution :P
And what was that about alcohol? I had a cutesy reply set up to it, but then I reread what you actually said, and it was pretty abusive. If you want to disagree with us, fine, you're no different than 99% of the rest of the country. But if you're going to come and TELL us you disagree with us, then please, keep it civil. What you wrote does not deserve the civility I'm using.
This person has a college degree? The post was barely coherent.
Quote from: k0balt on January 01, 2007, 02:59 AM NHFT
i saw some flag burning site and was scared
As long as you aren't a flag, you have nothing to worry about.
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 01, 2007, 07:00 AM NHFT
Welcome? We don't need people like that coming to NH.
No, but if they come to liberty first... Isn't that the whole idea?
What is that I said about nurses yesterday? ;D
Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 31, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Many nurses are SFJs, and that's probably why so many support the state. (Refer to those who run "Operation Politically Homeless" stands who have discovered this strange pattern.)
Quote from: Michael Fisher on January 01, 2007, 11:46 AM NHFT
What is that I said about nurses yesterday? ;D
Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 31, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Many nurses are SFJs, and that's probably why so many support the state. (Refer to those who run "Operation Politically Homeless" stands who have discovered this strange pattern.)
http://www.heartattackgrill.com/not_real_nurses.htm
Quote from: Pat McCotter on January 01, 2007, 11:52 AM NHFT
Quote from: Michael Fisher on January 01, 2007, 11:46 AM NHFT
What is that I said about nurses yesterday? ;D
Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 31, 2006, 09:53 AM NHFT
Many nurses are SFJs, and that's probably why so many support the state. (Refer to those who run "Operation Politically Homeless" stands who have discovered this strange pattern.)
http://www.heartattackgrill.com/not_real_nurses.htm
You've got to warn me before posting something like that!
My innocent eyes cannot fall upon that page! :o
Thanks for dropping by kobalt. I hope you will stick around even if some folks lay into you for not agreeing with them on everything.
Dave take a minute and go back and read the post from kobalt.
http://forum.soulawakenings.com/index.php?topic=938.msg114783#msg114783
In one of her first posts she manages to throw in several insults.
Differences of opinion are completely cool... insults and condescension are not.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 02, 2007, 05:47 PM NHFT
Thanks for dropping by kobalt. I hope you will stick around even if some folks lay into you for not agreeing with them on everything.
Judging by the tone of her first posts, and the lack of activity since, I think k0balt is a wannabe troll -- just had time to do a drive-by. And Dada, k0balt's post was at least as abusive as the rest of the responses to it. I chose to be a little less short than people like Kat and Roger, but I can't really blame them for it.
We're an easy target for insults; we have an alternative worldview that requires people to think in order to understand us, and many people have phronemophobia about things they do not see with their own two eyes.
Quote from: Braddogg on January 02, 2007, 06:30 PM NHFT
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 02, 2007, 05:47 PM NHFT
Thanks for dropping by kobalt. I hope you will stick around even if some folks lay into you for not agreeing with them on everything.
Judging by the tone of her first posts, and the lack of activity since, I think k0balt is a wannabe troll -- just had time to do a drive-by. And Dada, k0balt's post was at least as abusive as the rest of the responses to it. I chose to be a little less short than people like Kat and Roger, but I can't really blame them for it.
She is on the FSP forums.
Well I checked out the 4 posts at the FSP Forum...
Male, not female.
And my favorite quote
Quote...problem is I'm already strapped for cash! (imagine that!) If there are any communist or financial means of supporting my move until i would be able to support myself again....well you would have one more soul !
Quote from: k0balt on January 01, 2007, 02:59 AM NHFT
:)
since you're awake and i'm still curious, can you point me to the forums that show what kinda law reform, any members in the local government seats?? i saw some flag burning site and was scared
Strictly UN and Connecticutt flags at this point of course....
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 01, 2007, 05:19 AM NHFT
Sounds to me like you're in the wrong place.
I think he's in the right place to hear pro liberty ideas, or do you want to keep those from him?
assuming he's a him...
What makes you think that this character is interested in pro-liberty ideas?
He attacked our ladies as potentially dangerous unlicensed shampooers...
he is bothered by us burning UN flags ...
We do things ... he attacks us ... good times.
Quote from: DadaOrwell on January 02, 2007, 09:28 PM NHFT
Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 01, 2007, 05:19 AM NHFT
Sounds to me like you're in the wrong place.
I think he's in the right place to hear pro liberty ideas, or do you want to keep those from him?
assuming he's a him...
And Dave chooses to attack me at every opportunity, Good times.
http://en.rian.ru/analysis/20070103/58353868.html
Year of military setbacks shows futility of using force
MOSCOW. (RIA Novosti military commentator Viktor Litovkin) - Some of the most significant events of the outgoing year were in the military sphere - the defeat of the US-led coalition forces in Iraq, the Israeli army's setback in Lebanon, and the return of the Taliban to Afghanistan despite the presence of 20,000 NATO troops there.
Paradoxically, semi-guerilla units, armed at best with Kalashnikovs, grenade launchers, and explosives they plant in cars or use in suicide bombings, are winning wars against regular armies, equipped with state-of-the-art military hardware and high technologies. The latter have the most sophisticated satellite systems of control and communication, thermal imagers, radars, which can detect any moving or fixed objects, and even individuals, and means of radio electronic warfare. Regular armies have super modern tanks, fighters, bombers, and cruise missiles - everything the great designer minds of the late 20th--early 21st centuries have managed to develop; they are also equipped with most advanced military ideas, tactics and operational skills, and have amassed the experience of all the past wars; these armies have top professionals whose training and education costs astronomical sums.
For all that, regular armies, on which more than half a trillion dollars are spent every year (that is, more than on all other armed forces put together) cannot do anything against the mujaheddins, armed with 50-dollar weapons. Let's try to analyze why this is so.
The first and the main argument military experts quote when asked about "futile force" is that all modern regular armies are designed to fight against similar armies and states. They are not meant to fight guerrillas, no matter how we call them - terrorists, mujaheddins, militants, or insurgents. Moreover, quite often guerrillas do not even have a single control center. They act in small groups which are not connected with each other in any way. In some cases, they rely on the wholehearted support of the sympathetic population. They recruit local people, who are farmers or road workers during the day, and resistance fighters at night. These people do not fight against well organized and equipped military units - they act furtively on the routes of approach, or lie in ambush and then attack small military units at rest. They also act as suicide bombers in occupied cities.
Their tactic is simple - a massive attack, and immediate retreat. They pelt away, and there is nobody to pursue. This is how Hezbollah fighters operate. Afghan mujaheddins, Taliban and al-Qaeda militants act in much the same manner. The same tactic was used in Chechnya.
Military experts have even coined a term for this tactic - "asymmetrical war." It is not yet clear what to do about it.
It is possible to defeat any regular army, or any state, all the more so if forces are incomparable - the 21st century U.S. army against Saddam's army, stuck somewhere in the middle of the past century and depleted by decades of economic sanctions. But it is impossible to rout a nation, be they Iraqis or Kurds, even if these nations, or clans are fighting each other. There is always a point when they join forces to resist the aggressor, sometimes even not realizing that they are united by a common goal.
This is what happened in Afghanistan, where the tribes which had fought each for centuries suddenly rallied against the Soviet troops. Now they are fighting NATO troops both together and in individual clans. This struggle is sporadic and disorganized. Tribes go into fighting when NATO coalition forces get too much in their way - interfere in their centuries-old traditions, or try to impose what radical Muslims will never understand - Western democracy. Their form of government is very different - all members of the tribe obey the chieftain without a murmur, and are ready to sacrifice their lives for him and traditions of their ancestors.
This brings to mind the almost forgotten Lenin's words: "Nobody will defeat a nation where the majority of workers and peasants have felt and realized that they are fighting for their own, Soviet power." If you replace "Soviet power" with "religion", or "national values," or "centuries-long traditions, you will see that, alas, Lenin was right. "Alas" applies to those who do not want to see the obvious, like the current U.S. Administration.
Moscow and other friends of the U.S. warned George W. Bush that a war against Iraq, particularly under a far-fetched excuse might turn into a misadventure with unforeseen consequences. But he did not heed the advice. Nor does he like the recommendations of the James Baker Study Group. The Republican defeat in the Congress elections has not prompted any radical conclusions, while the number of U.S. casualties in Iraq is rapidly approaching the 3,000 mark.
Director of the Institute of U.S. and Canadian Studies Sergei Rogov predicts that Washington's departure from Iraq, whether it takes place next year, or in three or four years, can only trigger off more chaos, this time not only in the Middle East, but also far beyond it.
One superpower or a coalition of countries, approaching this status, should realize the futility of their efforts when they forget about a sense of proportion, or political responsibility to their own and foreign citizens.
Moreover, in this situation the use of force spells disaster for everyone. This is one of the sad conclusions brought by the outgoing year.
If insurgents with bombs can stop the us army, why coulld we not stop the feds with words and non-violent actions?
I love the fears the analysts have of chaos and lack of government controls. :)
I added a Keene Free Press article about this.
http://www.vcnv.org/project/the-occupation-project
Voices for Creative Nonviolence is organizing the Occupation Project, a campaign of sustained nonviolent civil disobedience aimed at ending the U.S. war in and occupation of Iraq. The campaign will begin the first week of February 2007 with occupations at the offices of Representatives and Senators who refuse to pledge to vote against additional war funding.
I think a twinkle is forming in my eye.
Isn't there a certain military recruiting office that Caleb was interested in focusing on? :icon_pirat:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pAbL5hR0lCY
Woman will not pay war taxes
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 08, 2007, 04:44 PM NHFT
http://www.vcnv.org/project/the-occupation-project
Voices for Creative Nonviolence is organizing the Occupation Project, a campaign of sustained nonviolent civil disobedience aimed at ending the U.S. war in and occupation of Iraq. The campaign will begin the first week of February 2007 with occupations at the offices of Representatives and Senators who refuse to pledge to vote against additional war funding.
this has already been going on here in NH by the left...
Since the expulsion of the seven-to-eight thousand residents of Gush Katif at the behest of the Israeli government, by the IDF and the Israeli police force, two summers ago - an expression of the then-governmental policy of unilateral disengagement - an ideological battle has raged within the religious-Zionist camp regarding the right (or even obligation) of an Israeli soldier to refuse to carry out military orders if they conflict with his conscience or religious standards. When, if ever, does individual conscience override governmental authority? Will anarchy not reign supreme, and central governmental authority fall by the wayside, if every soldier of the IDF decides which orders are proper for him to carry out and when the authority of his Talmudic academy overrides the authority of his army commander?
This is a question with enormous ramifications for the future of our Jewish State. Some of these issues are touched upon by our Biblical portion of Shemot and are worthy of investigation.
The Book of Exodus opens with the cataclysmic change in the manner in which the descendants of Jacob-Israel are treated by a tyrannical Pharaoh "who did not know Joseph." The Egyptians embittered the lives of the Israelites with back-breaking slave labor - and they even attempted to commit genocide against the Jews by killing off the male babies: "The King of Egypt told (or ordered) the Hebrew midwives (or the midwives of the Hebrews), 'When you bring about the birth of the Hebrew women and you examine the birth- stool, if it is a male child you must slay him and if it is a female child, she may live.'" (Exodus 1:13-17)
The classical commentary Rashi interprets these midwives to be Hebrew women, whom Pharaoh wished to diabolically co-opt into his service against their own people, as an ancient form of Kapos, if you will. The arch-anti-Semites, like Hitler and Stalin, always attempted - by means of bribery, extortion and blackmail - to utilize Jews against Jews in their attempt to exterminate our nation.
The Abarbanel and Rabbi Shmuel David Luzzato, on the other hand, take the phrase to mean the Egyptian midwives of the Hebrew women - and since "these (Egyptian) mid-wives feared the Lord, they refused to follow the instructions of Pharaoh and allowed the (male) babies to live." (Genesis 1:18) These true heroines apparently understood that, despite the totalitarian laws of a despot Pharaoh of Egypt, there was a higher ethical law - that of the Creator of humanity in His Divine image, to whom one had to submit. This is the first case of civil disobedience in history.
They had a magnificent model, none other than Bitya, the princess daughter of Pharaoh himself. Baby Moses had been concealed in an ark (teyva, the very same word used for the boat that had rescued humanity in the earlier days of Noah) left floating along the Nile; when the princess of Egypt came down to the river to bathe and saw this ark on the waters, she sent her maid-servant and - contrary to her father's orders - rescued the Hebrew child. She named him Moses, or son (in Egyptian), because since she drew him forth from the waters of the Nile - and by so doing certainly risked her life in the face of the wrath of Pharaoh should he learn of her willful and traitorous deed - she certainly deserved to consider him her son (Exodus 2:5, 10).
To the best of my knowledge, the first historical record of citizens risking their lives against an unjust governmental law to follow a higher law of G-d and conscience are the Biblical verses I have just commented upon. This is the tradition of non-violent, peaceful resistance followed by Socrates in his famous trial, enunciated by Henry David Thorese in the middle of the nineteenth century, and successfully carried out by Dr. Martin Luther King on behalf of civil rights for African-Americans in the 1960s.
Biblical law, as delineated in the Book of Deuteronomy and explained by the Talmudic Tractate Sotah (45a), distinguishes between an obligatory war (chiefly defined as a war in self-defense, wherein the future life the Israelite nation is at stake) and a voluntary war, which - although sanctioned and perhaps even initiated by the Great Sanhedrin Court - does not have the urgency of a war fought on behalf of the very life of the new nation. Such a voluntary war allows for exemptions: an individual who has just built a new home but has not yet lived in it, who has just planted a vineyard but has not yet tasted of its fruit, who is betrothed but not yet married, as well as one who is fearful or tender-hearted (Deuteronomy 20:5-8). Rabbeinu Bahiya and the Ibn Ezra, commenting on the latter two categories of exemptions, interpret the one who is "fearful" as he who does not wish to harm anyone not hell-bent on murdering him, and one who is "tender-hearted" as he who is paralyzed by fear and will thereby reduce the morale of his fellow soldiers. The exemption of one "who is fearful" is an exemption for reasons of conscience.
In terms of the IDF, I do not believe that a democratically-arrived-at decision of the government that is not absolutely counter to Jewish law - such as "land for peace," about which there is a legitimate Halakhic difference of opinion - should engender the refusal of an individual soldier to follow the orders of his army officer. Our State is too fragile, our army too precious, and democracy too vital of a Jewish unifying ideal to allow for such factional separatism.
But if law-abiding citizens of Israel are asked to leave their homes and jobs by the Israeli government, and that government does not provide for them suitably parallel dwelling places and suitably parallel means of employment, then such an expulsion is inhumane, it is removing from those individuals their most basic human rights. Even soldiers must have the right to follow their conscience and refuse to carry out orders of evacuation in such an instance. Even the most lofty and crucial of government institutions must have a humanity conscience check-and-balance if the ideals of our nation are to endure.
http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=6841
King, Gandhi agreed, acted on power of love to vanquish evil
The Rev. Frederick Douglass Jefferson
Guest essayist
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(January 15, 2007) — If the Rev. Dr. Martin Luther King Jr. were living, he would be 78 today. He was born into a middle-class African-American family: his father, the Rev. Martin Luther King Sr.; his mother, Alberta King; sister, Willie Christine; and brother, A.D.
Considerable celebration will swirl today in Rochester and nationwide concerning Martin Luther King Jr.'s life and achievements. However, I feel very strongly that the world needs to know or remember that King's greatest legacy was that he was an inimitable practitioner of nonviolent love, especially in the United States.
At Crozer Theological Seminary, King listened to a lecture delivered by Mordecai W. Johnson, then president of Howard University, on the accomplishments of the great Mahatma Gandhi in India. To many critical intellectual observers, "Gandhi seemed to offer a cogent alternative to appeals for brotherhood which fell on deaf ears. It was a way that seemed compatible with Jesus' teaching of Christian love," according to William Robert Miller in his book Martin Luther King Jr. King was deeply impressed with Johnson's lecture, so much so that he immediately purchased many books dealing with Gandhi's career and philosophy.
At the core of Gandhi's philosophy was the concept of satyagraha (nonresistance), which has also been interpreted as soul force or the power of truth. Gandhi strongly believed in truth — whether intellectual, practical or moral.
In the context of social existence, he believed that even a severely oppressed minority must always stand firm for truth. Such a stand could be rightfully taken on the basis of love for the oppressor, acceptance of punishment in the attempt to motivate the oppressor to embrace the way of truth. Gandhi led several nonviolent campaigns in India and South Africa. In these campaigns, such diverse techniques as fasts, boycotts, mass marches, general strikes and massive civil disobedience were used. He was especially successful in breaking the stranglehold of British rule on India.
Much to his own surprise, King became enthralled with Gandhi's philosophies of nonviolent love in interpersonal relations and nonviolent direct action toward achieving social justice in group conflicts.
Gandhi's influence was not total. Gandhi was a devout Hindu. He admired Jesus' teachings, but was not Jesus' follower.
King, on the other hand, was a born-again, committed Christian, an ordained Baptist minister. He had a doctorate in theology from Boston University, among several other accomplishments.
King's creative genius lay in the fact that he fused Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence with Jesus' love ethic and led millions of his followers toward making enormous constructive civil rights changes for people in the United States and other parts of the world. The practice of nonviolent love can be just as effective today. Think how many injustices could be eliminated if each individual practiced nonviolent love. The result would be more prosperous, safe and peaceful families and communities.
Jefferson, of Brighton, is a retired Presbyterian minister.
http://www.democratandchronicle.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070115/OPINION02/701150301/1039/OPINION
Here is something new for the future protester. :violent5:
January 25, 2007
Military Shows Off New Ray Gun
By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
Filed at 5:45 a.m. ET
MOODY AIR FORCE BASE, Ga. (AP) -- The military calls its new weapon an ''active denial system,'' but that's an understatement. It's a ray gun that shoots a beam that makes people feel as if they are about to catch fire.
Apart from causing that terrifying sensation, the technology is supposed to be harmless -- a non-lethal way to get enemies to drop their weapons.
Military officials say it could save the lives of innocent civilians and service members in places like Iraq and Afghanistan.
The weapon is not expected to go into production until at least 2010, but all branches of the military have expressed interest in it, officials said.
During the first media demonstration of the weapon Wednesday, airmen fired beams from a large dish antenna mounted atop a Humvee at people pretending to be rioters and acting out other scenarios that U.S. troops might encounter in war zones.
The device's two-man crew located their targets through powerful lenses and fired beams from more than 500 yards away. That is nearly 17 times the range of existing non-lethal weapons, such as rubber bullets.
Anyone hit by the beam immediately jumped out of its path because of the sudden blast of heat throughout the body. While the 130-degree heat was not painful, it was intense enough to make the participants think their clothes were about to ignite.
''This is one of the key technologies for the future,'' said Marine Col. Kirk Hymes, director of the non-lethal weapons program at Quantico, Va., which helped develop the new weapon. ''Non-lethal weapons are important for the escalation of force, especially in the environments our forces are operating in.''
The system uses electromagnetic millimeter waves, which can penetrate only 1/64th of an inch of skin, just enough to cause discomfort. By comparison, microwaves used in the common kitchen appliance penetrate several inches of flesh.
The millimeter waves cannot go through walls, but they can penetrate most clothing, officials said. They refused to comment on whether the waves can go through glass.
The weapon could be mounted aboard ships, airplanes and helicopters, and routinely used for security or anti-terrorism operations.
''There should be no collateral damage to this,'' said Senior Airman Adam Navin, 22, of Green Bay, Wis., who has served several tours in Iraq.
Navin and two other airmen were role players in Wednesday's demonstration. They and 10 reporters who volunteered were shot with the beams. The beams easily penetrated various layers of winter clothing.
The system was developed by the military, but the two devices currently being evaluated were built by defense contractor Raytheon.
Airman Blaine Pernell, 22, of suburban New Orleans, said he could have used the system during his four tours in Iraq, where he manned watchtowers around a base near Kirkuk. He said Iraqis constantly pulled up and faked car problems so they could scout out U.S. forces.
''All we could do is watch them,'' he said. But if they had the ray gun, troops ''could have dispersed them.''
Here is something new for the future protester.
Perzactly what I thought when I saw this. The new watergun.
http://bangordailynews.com/news/t/viewpoints.aspx?articleid=145486&zoneid=35
Ilze Petersons: Civil disobedience a vehicle for change
Tuesday, January 23, 2007 - Bangor Daily News
The Bangor Daily News editorial "Protest by Ballot" of Jan. 17 suggests that individuals can best affect the outcome of the war in Iraq by voting, and questions the efficacy of civil disobedience in influencing the Bush administration. While we agree voting is essential, we believe a vibrant and effective democracy is a multifaceted process and involves much more than people simply stepping into the voting booth on Election Day.
The editorial correctly points out that in the last election: "It was clearly a case of the people getting far ahead of their leaders. The country may have been slow to see the mistakes, deceptions and mismanagement in the Iraq war, but when the tipping point came, the people were ahead of the politicians, the press and the entire public establishment."
Had the politicians, the press and the entire public establishment listened to the people who held public hearings, signed petitions, wrote letters, visited congressional offices, held vigils, demonstrated and were willing to face arrest for the past four years, the deaths of more than 3000 of our troops might have been prevented. Hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqis might still be alive and we would not have lost respect for our country around the world. It is true that no one action by itself led to the tidal wave of protest culminating in the last election. However, thousands of protest actions around the country helped to make that election result possible.
Those of us who chose to engage in nonviolent civil disobedience prior to the election did so after four years of petitioning our elected representatives to no avail. We chose to engage in nonviolent civil disobedience in the tradition of Martin Luther King Jr. and Mahatma Gandhi, who believed civil disobedience was necessary when elected representatives failed to act to stop extreme injustice. As part of a national Declaration of Peace Campaign, we were willing to face the consequences of our actions with the hope that others would take whatever steps they could to put an end to the occupation of Iraq and bring our troops home safely.
For the past four years, Sens. Susan Collins, Olympia Snow and Rep. Tom Allen have consistently voted for funding the Iraq war. Only Rep. Michaud voted against funding the war. While Allen did attend a hearing organized by peace activists, Collins and Snowe refused to attend any such public hearings. We applaud Collins, Snowe, Michaud and Allen for recently refusing to support the troop surge now proposed by President Bush. Now we urge them to provide the leadership to bring an end to the occupation of Iraq and reject the foreign policy of domination that has led us into this quagmire.
Today we call on our elected representatives to reassert the authority they abrogated when they gave President Bush a blank check to wage an endless war in Iraq. We call on our congressional representatives to stop funding the war and to allocate funds only to bring our troops home and for humanitarian reconstruction in Iraq. We call on our elected representatives to hold this administration accountable for misleading and lying to the American people about the dangers posed by Iraq and for waging a disastrous, pre-emptive, unnecessary, illegal, endless war that has been so destructive of innocent human life and of the well being of Mainers and other U.S. citizens.
It will take many more vigils, letters, hearings and rallies to ensure our elected representatives respond to the will of the people and stop the occupation of Iraq. Join the thousands who will be in Washington on Jan. 27 to call for an end to the occupation.
Help plan for a major statewide action on March 17 — www.everyvillage-me.us. Sign a petition calling for an investigation of this administration at www.maineimpeach.org. Let's not wait until the next election to make our voices heard.
Ilze Petersonsis a member of the Peace & Justice Center of Eastern Maine.
there have been at least three separate CD acts committed at the NH congressional delegation over the same 4 year period...activists went to the public offices of their representatives (a place specifically designed to have citizens petition their representatives for redress of grievances) to ask for a meeting and when no one responded they stayed in the offices after business hours and were arrested.
one of those arrested was long-time NH Green Party activist Guy Chichester who ran for governor as a Green in '92 and was once arrested for cutting down a speaker outside of a nuclear power plant (meant for broadcasting evacuation orders) with a chainsaw...
http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051230&Category=REPOSITORY&ArtNo=512300335&SectionCat=NEWS04&Template=printart (http://www.concordmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?Date=20051230&Category=REPOSITORY&ArtNo=512300335&SectionCat=NEWS04&Template=printart)
excerpt:
Jennifer Jones, an attorney who represented the group at the hearing, asked the judge if the bail conditions could be clarified. When the protesters were arrested, they were released on personal recognizance bail ranging from $300 to $1,000. But the bail conditions also restricted the group's access to Gregg's office, which Jones said limited political speech and was unconstitutional.
City Prosecutor Scott Murray said the state did not mean to restrict the activists' right to call or write to Gregg. The bail conditions are standard for charges of criminal trespassing, he said.
But Jones said the group should not be restricted to e-mails, letters and phone calls to Gregg. They should be allowed to go to the office in person.
"This isn't an ordinary criminal trespass," she said. "We are talking about the local office of an elected official."
The judge said he would take the issue into advisement and asked Jones to suggest wording for the bail condition. Jones said yesterday she will ask the court to allow the activists to go to the office provided they do not harass or threaten anyone.
So which one of us has to sit in jail for 24 years in this nonviolent revolution?
Mandela calls for Gandhi's non-violence approach
By Nita Bhalla
REUTERS
3:09 a.m. January 29, 2007
NEW DELHI – Anti-apartheid icon Nelson Mandela joined top leaders, nobel laureates and elder statesmen on Monday calling on the world to reinvent Indian freedom fighter Mahatma Gandhi's non-violent approach to solving conflicts. Mandela, who spent 28 years in prison for fighting white rule before leading South Africa to multi-racial democracy as the country's first black president in 1994, said Gandhi's non-violent approach which won India freedom from British colonial rule 60 years ago was an inspiration.
'His philosophy contributed in no small measure to bringing about a peaceful transformation in South Africa and in healing the destructive human divisions that had been spawned by the abhorrent practice of apartheid,' said Mandela.
The 88-year-old statesman was addressing a conference, through a satellite link from South Africa, to mark the centenary of Gandhi's 'satyagraha' or non-violent movement which began in Johannesburg on Sept 11, 1906, where Gandhi was practising law. Gandhi lived in South Africa from 1893 to 1914, where he was an active and high profile political activist.
Referring to him as 'the sacred warrior', Mandela said the Mahatma combined ethics and morality with a steely resolve that refused to compromise with the oppressor, the British Empire.
'In a world driven by violence and strife, Gandhi's message of peace and non-violence holds the key to human survival in the 21st century, said Mandela.
'He rightly believed in the efficacy of pitting the sole force of the satyagraha against the brute force of the oppressor and in effect converting the oppressor to the right and moral point.'
Gandhi, is revered by many around the world for his tolerance and peaceful approach that led millions of Indians to refuse to comply with colonial law, eventually forcing Britain to leave India after around 300 years of occupation.
Sonia Gandhi, president of Indian National Congress which leads the ruling coalition, joined Mandela and calls by former Polish President Polish Lech Walesa, former Zambian President Kenneth Kaunda and Bangladesh Nobel Laureate Mohammad Yunus to promote Gandhi's values.
She told the some 400 delegates, which include heads of government, senior officials, religious leaders and parliamentarians that the end of the Cold War had not seen peace as was hoped for.
It was natural to question whether Gandhi's philosophy was feasible in today's world, but that it was possible to use it as a tool and adapt to to conflict resolution. she said.
'Tt would be a grave error to write-off the Gandhian approach as irrelevant to our age,' she said.
http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/world/20070129-0309-india-gandhi-mandela.html
Is "Just War" an Oxymoron?
Mark Weisenmiller
TAMPA, Florida, Jan 29 (IPS) - The author of a best-selling "biography" of cod and a world history of salt has taken on the weighty theme of nonviolence movements in his latest book -- why some thrive and others fail, and why the concept is so "profoundly dangerous" to the powers that be.
"Nonviolence: Twenty-Five Lessons From the History of a Dangerous Idea" by Mark Kurlansky (Modern Library Chronicles, September 2006), who also worked for many years as a journalist at the International Herald Tribune and other outlets, includes a foreword by the Tibetan Dalai Lama.
Kurlansky notes at the beginning of the book that "nonviolence" has "no word for it... while every major language has a word for violence, there is no word to express the idea of nonviolence except that it is not another idea, it is not violence."
As he guides the reader on a chronological tour of nonviolence movements from early Christianity (described as an "anti-war cult") through the activism against U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, Kurlansky shows that, for a variety of reasons, human beings, and especially governments, tend to ultimately undermine pacifist systems.
Most of the notable people affiliated with nonviolence movements, "when they at first became prominent, were more interested in political causes than their religious beliefs," Kurlansky told IPS. "Two examples that immediately come to mind are (Mohandas) Gandhi, whose chief cause was the independence of India from the British, and (Reverend) Martin Luther King Jr., whose first priority was civil rights for blacks (in the United States)."
No one country or continent has been a leader in nonviolence, according to Kurlansky. Intentionally designed nonviolent states -- such as Quaker William Penn's colony in what is now the state of Pennsylvania in the U.S., and Kenneth Kuanda's dream of a peaceful South Africa free of the horrors of apartheid -- "have been undermined by outside influences," Kurlansky said.
"Because of the British Empire, regarding Pennsylvania, and the violent tactics of the ANC (African National Congress) in South Africa, these planned nonviolent states failed," he said.
Kurlansky presents a series of "lessons", such as once a state takes over a religion, the religion usually loses its nonviolent teachings; a propaganda machine promoting hatred always has a war waiting in the wings; and violence does not resolve problems -- it always leads to more violence.
Religion is usually thought of as being a necessary aspect of pacifism -- although "not always," Kurlansky noted -- and a discussion of how the four oldest of the world's religions stand on nonviolence is the main theme of the first chapters of the book.
Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and Judaism are all examined by Kurlansky, who observes that "Hindus often repeat the aphorism 'ahimsa paramo dharmah,' nonviolence is the highest law, but this is not an unshakable principle of the religion."
"Nonviolence," the book, has in-depth examinations of the lives of Mohammad, Jesus and Buddha. Also given prominent mention as pacifists are the Quakers, which began in England, and the Anabaptists, whose land of origin was Switzerland.
Kurlansky argues that the United States' long history with violence and slavery derives from the fact that the country's early history is so closely tied to bellicose England.
Yet most countries have some type of violence in their histories. "Mexico has had an incredible history of violence and Canada was drawn into the violence of its early days by its colonialism with England. No country in Europe would qualify as having no violence," Kurlansky said.
Gandhi in the 1930s and Rev. King in the 1960s were the leading proponents of nonviolence in those decades. Who is the 'star leader' of nonviolence in the first decade of the 21st century? "Probably the Dalai Lama or Desmond Tutu," answered Kurlansky. "Currently, there are organisations for both the Israelis and the Palestinians that have large non-violent groups in them," he added.
Unlike most Western writers, Kurlansky does not beatify Gandhi in "Nonviolence." Gandhi, who was once memorably described by the late U.S. journalist John Gunther as "an incredible combination of Jesus Christ, Tammany Hall (the Manhattan building which became the headquarters of the New York Democratic Party), and your father", is presented as a man whose actions and beliefs do not comport to the mores of the century in which he lived. However, Gandhi's love of nonviolence is given due credit by Kurlansky.
The author told IPS that military veterans have had interesting reactions to his book.
"I have a lot of friends who are veterans and they agreed with many things in the book. Some of the strongest, most vocal organisations in the U.S. that are now protesting the American involvement in Iraq are Gulf War veterans groups and Vietnam War veterans groups. But veterans aren't the problem -- governments are," he said.
Kurlansky cited former U.S. President Dwight D. Eisenhower as a rare case of a military man who condemned violence. "In 1959, he (Eisenhower) said 'I think people want peace so much that one of these days governments better get out of the way and let people have it.' That's an amazing statement, considering that the military was such an important part of Eisenhower's life," Kurlansky said.
What does the author foresee for the future of nonviolence? "That's tough to answer," admitted Kurlansky, "but I do know that all anti-war people agree that the next six months (of the U.S.'s current involvement in Iraq) are critical because if the Democrats in the new Congress don't start to try to stop the war, they may never do it."
I saw Kurlansky talking about his book (along with Tom Hayden talking about his new book) on CSPAN book events about a month ago...
Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 22, 2007, 10:09 AM NHFT
Gandhi's influence was not total. Gandhi was a devout Hindu. He admired Jesus' teachings, but was not Jesus' follower.
King, on the other hand, was a born-again, committed Christian, an ordained Baptist minister. He had a doctorate in theology from Boston University, among several other accomplishments.
King's creative genius lay in the fact that he fused Gandhi's philosophy of nonviolence with Jesus' love ethic and led millions of his followers toward making enormous constructive civil rights changes for people in the United States and other parts of the world. The practice of nonviolent love can be just as effective today. Think how many injustices could be eliminated if each individual practiced nonviolent love. The result would be more prosperous, safe and peaceful families and communities.
Thank you for posting this. Its content is excellent. :)
posting is easy .... living it is much more difficult ... but it changes everything. :)
http://www.atlanticfreepress.com/content/view/841/81/
Marches, Protests, and Civil Disobedience?
Click Name for Bio of Stuart Noble
Tuesday, 30 January 2007
by Stuart Noble
The recent march on the Mall in Washington D.C. has produced a fair amount of publicity in the media and discussion around the blogosphere for, well, a couple of days.
Let me start by saying,
The streets are dead capital. There is nothing to be gained on the streets.
If there is nothing (don't read this in absolute terms) to be gained in the streets then where should political dissent be aimed? Some have suggested that online political activism represents a new form of civil disobedience. I tend to agree. In one sense, online political dissent is more effective than street marches and protests, primarily because the elite media doesn't have absolute dominion over the message. The blogosphere has real power because of the free flow of information and ideas. This last bastion of democratic free flowing communication is a critical element to the preservation of freedom and liberty in a post-industrial large-scale society. However, while the free flow of information and ideas can translate into political capital, it doesn't necessarily translate into political victory.
In order for civil disobedience to have any real effect it must be aimed at the power structure and it must disrupt that power structure in some meaningful way. The proud traditions of Gandhi, and King promoted civil disobedience through non-violence but that tradition was not one of mere protest alone. Gandhi and King both participated and promoted marches and protests. These activities served well to draw attention to their causes but their more powerful civil disobedience tools went right at the heart of the ruling economic structure. They understood that public attention alone wouldn't bring about any lasting or meaningful change.
Why are the streets dead capital today? Because there is nothing to be gained from owning the streets. There is no power on the streets, thus nothing to be disrupted. The most anyone could hope for is a little short lived media attention like what we've just witnessed. Am I suggesting that large-scale gatherings of public protest are entirely useless? No. I am suggesting however, that without an economic incentive tied to the protest the action becomes little more than a face-to-face "echo chamber" for folks who share the same views.
Some have criticized the so called 60's style protest activities as being nothing more than nostalgia clouded judgment which distracts us from meaningful activity. Perhaps some of that criticism is warranted. A Saturday afternoon peace march alone certainly isn't very lasting or convincing. However, much of that activity in the 60's was incredibly effective in that it combined protest with economic disruption. Companies were boycotted, business disrupted, military service evaded, university campuses shut down. Labor movements achieved success through similar tactics. A picket line alone never achieved much of anything. Unfortunately that's what the modern labor movement in America has been reduced to.
Already 70% of Americans are against the war in Iraq. No amount of main stream media covered demonstrations are likely to sway the other 30%, and frankly what difference would it make? An overwhelming majority is in favor of ending the war and the government is acting completely independent of the people (read authoritarian). Apparently, 80% or 90% or 95% of the country could be against the war and the government would continue as planned. The problem is not that there isn't enough media attention, or that the vast majority of Americans are against this illegitimate war and that they desire an immediate de-militarization of American foreign policy. The problem is that the government has no meaningful incentive to stop its illegal actions.
If the goal is an end to the war, then the tactics should focus on providing immediate incentives in the only language that elites understand; risk vs. return. Let's dispense with any false hopes in the government sanctioned "democratic process". American democracy has been hijacked by corporate royalists and they don't intend on simply returning power to the people on principal. The sooner "average" Americans begin to embrace this very simple but "radical" principal, the sooner any real action can be taken. Saturday marches on the Mall, while commendable, are ultimately useless because they miss the heart of the problem. It's like administering a treatment for the wrong disease.
Unfortunately, many Americans, (Westerners for that matter) operate under that same very rubric of risk vs. return, emotionally trapped within the confines of consumer comforts. Most of us live in a golden prison. Yet there are cracks in the prison system. Consumer sedation and ambiguity depended on a large enough self-absorbed "middle class" cut off from the lower classes and working poor. This "middle class" is both shrinking (joining the lower-classes) and becoming politically and socially engaged. Can the non-elite classes join together to effectively disrupt the economic foundation of power, thus providing the necessary incentives to bring the elites to the bargaining table? This was the strategy which finally brought about an end to segregation in America and independence for India. In fact, while not a non-violent revolution, the American revolution was largely a product of upper-middle class and working class colonists united against corporate elites and the British crown. The British royalists, while absolutely more economically and militarily powerful than the colonists, ultimately decided the risk of continuing war far outweighed the potential returns.
The 2006 congressional victories alone won't amount to much without forceful, careful, and well planned civil disobedience. The new congress at best merely represents a slightly more pliable body to the Will of the people, but that Will must be asserted effectively. It seems there are many who are stocking up all their political ammo in anticipation of a political Mosses coming to deliver them from Egypt (read DeNile). We may as well stock up on pork and beans and wait for the second coming of Jesus; both are about as likely.
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a guest: Civil Obedience
America's walk in the park demonstrations are far too polite in influencing leaders who regularly violate the constitution and international law while deliberately deceiving the public. The civil disobedience of the 60s or today's Latin America are absent in this country today.
As noted in the article, civil disobedience required that
"Companies were boycotted, business disrupted, military service evaded, university campuses shut down. Labor movements achieved success through similar tactics. A picket line alone never achieved much of anything. Unfortunately that?s what the modern labor movement in America has been reduced to"
One wonders who organizes the demonstrations here: the people or the government. There is obviously no sense of urgency in the US population, despite this President and Congress mounting the greatest threat to US democracy and freedom since the Republic was founded (even if you ignore the barbaric foreign policy they practice).
Unfortunately, the internet has proved fairly toothless as well. We have our armchair football analysts writing for sites like this, reporting and analyzing events to death, but essentially making readers mere spectators of the unfolding disaster, rather than real participants in efforts to halt or reverse it. This has to change if the coming age of tyranny is to be prevented.
What is needed is "forceful, careful, and well planned civil disobedience".
Organize. Then have a real demonstration.
1
Blue
http://www.indypendent.org/?p=743
Escalating the Antiwar Movement: After four years of marching, Iraq War opponents look to ramp up resistance
longer article
"Let me give you a word of the philosophy of reform. The whole history of the progress of human liberty shows that all concessions yet made to her august claims, have been born of earnest struggle. The conflict has been exciting, agitating, all-absorbing, and for the time being, putting all other tumults to silence. It must do this or it does nothing. If there is no struggle there is no progress. Those who profess to favor freedom and yet depreciate agitation, are men who want crops without plowing up the ground, they want rain without thunder and lightening. They want the ocean without the awful roar of its many waters."
Upholding freedom of press principles landed Josh Wolf behind bars. Wolf, a 24-year old freelance journalist and independent videographer, is currently in "coercive custody" at the Federal Detention Facility in Dublin, Calif. for resisting a subpoena to testify before a Federal Grand jury and for refusing to release video footage from a San Francisco anti-G8 Summit protest in July 2005. On Feb. 6,Wolf became the longest imprisoned journalist in U.S. history for his refusal to comply based on journalistic principles. As of Feb. 21, Wolf has been imprisoned for 183 days.
"Many have asked me why I've chosen to sacrifice my personal freedom," wrote Wolf in his blog from prison Feb. 6. "Most pressing is the fact that a free press in a democracy cannot act as an extension of the justice department."
Wolf, who has been covering protests in San Francisco for more than two years, posted a video of the 2005 protest to his website and sold some of the footage to the local nightly news stations. Local and federal law enforcement agents, who were investigating clashes between police and demonstrators, tuned into Wolf's video and soon served him a federal subpoena demanding him to release copies of his unpublished video footage and to testify about the protesters seen on the tape. Wolf has stated several times under oath that his unpublished material does not show video footage of any of the alleged crimes committed. "This case is not about a videotape and it's not about justice. This entire matter is about eroding the rights of privacy and those of a free press," Wolf wrote. "It is about identifying civil dissidents and using members of the news media to actively assist in what is essentially an anarchist witch hunt."
Many in the news media community have publicly issued statements supporting Wolf in the last year, and he was awarded the 2006 Society of Professional Journalists Freedom of Information Award as Journalist of the Year. "The role of the media is to ask the questions, to point at those inconsistencies, and to demand answers from the powers that be," wrote Wolf. "This is why the media is under attack and this is why it is so urgent that we continue to fight back. Because without a free press we can never be free."
For more information on Josh Wolf or to see the video he published about the 2005 protest: www.joshwolf.net
Article:
http://www.indypendent.org/?p=825
Josh Wolf is in jail because the feds are investigating damage to an SFPD police car that MAY have been purchased with federal grant money. That moves it out of state court (where Mr. Wolf could rely on the media shield law) and into federal court (there is no federal media shield law). It is bootstrapping of the worst kind -- the local and federal governments in cahoots to intimidate protesters and Mr. Wolf.
Here is a nice list of ideas
[attachment deleted by admin]
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 03, 2007, 09:45 PM NHFT
Here is a nice list of ideas
More than the list of ideas, is needed the will to implement them, and more than that, the wisdom to know what to do.
so which idea do you have the will to implement? :)
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 03, 2007, 10:02 PM NHFT
so which idea do you have the will to implement? :)
I could do almost anything on the list. But first, I seek the wisdom to know what needs to be done.
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 02, 2007, 08:49 AM NHFT
For more information on Josh Wolf or to see the video he published about the 2005 protest: www.joshwolf.net
A bunch of violent communists who think destroying private property and mob rule are "anarchy".
And yet, Josh Wolf is still right, and should be freed.
sure .... I would not want him imprisoned or anyone else. Some of us call that "anarchy".
if no one is in charge .... then there might be some destruction of private property .... some people call them protests ... some people call it colateral damage.
.... if there is mob rule ... then I would call that "democracy" ... and bad things might happen in that situation also.
Violent communists don't look that much different that violent insurgents and violent peace keepers to me.
Just pointing out that what the violent punks call "anarchy", isn't. They want to rule by violence. "Ruling" != anarchy.
What Are Lawful Orders?
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,127377,00.html
"The examples I've tossed out here were all civilian in nature, and they all occurred under conditions other than combat. Do the same principles apply to a service member on active duty? More specifically, does a Soldier have the right to practice civil disobedience? Does he or she have the right to refuse an order?
For many military personnel, the knee-jerk response to that last question is no. A Soldier follows orders. Period. That's the nature of military discipline. You don't discuss it; you don't vote on it; and you don't call home to mom to see if it's okay. You square your shoulders, suck in your gut, and carry out your orders."
from above article:
"When you break the law, you pay the price, even if the law itself is wrong. Rosa Parks knew that and accepted it. Mahatma Gandhi knew it, and he accepted it. So did Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King Jr., and a few hundred thousand other protesters and social activists, most of whom we'll never know by name."
Gandhi did not agree with this. I was just reading an excerpt from his book.
Christian Action of non-violent civil disobedience - BRING THE AUSTRALIAN TROOPS HOME Feedback
- Jim Dowling
Join together with others as we bring prayer and resistance to the gates of the largest military base in South-East Queensland, the Enoggera Army Barracks.
While Poland and Denmark have announced the immanent withdrawal of all troops, Italy, Spain, Ukraine, Japan and New Zealand have already done so. England has also announced a major troop reduction
That our country is engaged in a serious war crime is without doubt. The invasion was loudly denounced by Pope John Paul 11 before it took place, and afterwards declared illegal by then UN Secretary General Kofi Anan. More recently, a senior prosecutor at the 1945 Nuremburg War Crimes Tribunal, Benjamin Ferenccz, has declared George Bush should be tried the for illegal invasion of Iraq.
Join together with others as we bring prayer and resistance to the gates of the largest military base in South-East Queensland, the Enoggera Army Barracks. The best way we can support our troops is to demand they are withdrawn from a war which has only served to bring more suffering upon the Iraqi people. Further deployments should be stopped as the 'war on terror' is a war of terror.
Where: Enoggera Army Barracks, Lloyd St., Enoggera
When: 10am, Saturday 10th March
Gather together at the corner of Lloyd and Wardell Sts. before moving in procession to the gates of the barracks
Preparatory NON-VIOLENCE TRAINING
69 Thomas St. West End
7:00pm. Wed. 7 March
On Civil Disobedience: An Interview with Howard Zinn
Monday, February 26 2007 @ 07:04 PM PST
Contributed by: Anonymous
Views: 201
State of Nature: You once wrote that direct action "encompasses a great variety of methods, limited only by our imaginations". What methods do you find at our disposal today? And what limits does your imagination impose upon them?
Howard Zinn: Direct action means acting directly on the object of your protest or the source of your grievance, as opposed to petitioning or lobbying for your elected representatives to act. We see it in strikes, both historically and today, which are a form of direct action against corporations that, for instance, exploit their employees, or manufacture war weapons. Another form of direct action is non-violent (that is, avoiding violence against human beings) action, including forms of sabotage. Around 1980, 'ploughshares' groups (turn our swords into ploughshares) began invading companies that made weaponry, and committed minor acts of sabotage to protest the actions of these companies. Only recently, a group of religious pacifists calling themselves 'The St. Patrick's Four' poured blood on a marine recruiting station to protest the war in Iraq. Boycotts are another form of direct action. The national boycott of grapes, carried on in the 1960s by the farm workers of California against the powerful growers, brought about better conditions for farm workers. The desertion of soldiers from immoral war, or the refusal of men to be drafted for war, are also forms of direct action.
SoN: You say that our problem is civil obedience, not civil disobedience. "Both in war and in the law courts and everywhere else you must do whatever your city and your country command", states Socrates; and these words, you claim, have been impressed on our minds. You find in history many instances of submission to authority even in the face of terrible injustice, and very few of rebellion. Why do people submit so readily to injustice?
HZ: People submit to injustice for two reasons: one is that they do not recognize it as injustice. A young person submits to the exhortation to join the military without recognizing that he or she may go to a war which cannot be morally justified. The media and the educational system may not educate them about historical examples of resistance to injustice. Or people will submit to an injustice because they feel they have no alternative, that if they refuse they will be punished, perhaps by loss of a job, perhaps by being sent to prison. They may submit because people they have been taught to respect and trust – the President, their minister, even their family – may tell them they must submit to injustice because they owe something to their government, or their church or their family (as Plato had Socrates saying in The Crito, he couldn't escape from his death sentence because he owed something to his government).
SoN: Some would like us to believe that the present system provides legal and political means to bring about social change. Justice Abe Fortas of the Supreme Court, who wrote Concerning Dissent and Civil Disobedience, was one of these people, and your response to him is found in Disobedience and Democracy: Nine Fallacies on Law and Order (1968). Here and in other works you charge that the rule of law reinforces the unequal distribution of wealth and power and the ballot box proves to be utterly ineffective as an instrument to rectify injustice. What do you say to those who still insist that the law is neutral and democracy is alive and well?
HZ: If you study the actual workings of the justice system over the course of our history, it becomes clear that it favors the rich over the poor, the white over the black, the orthodox over the radical. The very structure of the system insures it, with judges generally coming from the upper classes, often appointed by the political elite, with money dominating the system at every turn, as in the greater difficulty of poor people in being represented adequately in court. If you study the legislation passed by Congress throughout history, from Hamilton's economic program in the first Congress to the tax laws of today, benefiting corporations and the wealthy, you will see that our representative system represents the wealthy in large part. If you observe our wars, you find that the so-called 'checks and balances' we learn about in school, where no one branch of government can dominate, simply don't work in times of war. The President decides on war, Congress goes along obediently, and the Supreme Court has never ruled that a war is unconstitutional, although judicial review is presumably part of their job, and every war since World War II has violated the requirement of the constitution that Congress alone can declare war.
SoN: "1789 and 1917 are still historic dates, but they are no longer historic examples", says Albert Camus. For him, the powerful weapons in the hands of the state and the danger that violent uprising in one country will lead to war on a global scale indicates that the time for revolution in the old sense has now passed. It seems that Camus is very much on your mind when you also question the feasibility of revolution in your writings and advocate non-violent direct action instead. But can non-violent direct action ever be as effective as revolution once was in history?
HZ: We must first question the effectiveness of violent revolution. In the United States, it superseded the British ruling class with a local ruling class, in the French Revolution it led to Napoleonic dictatorship and Bourbon monarchy, in the Russian Revolution it led to Stalinism, in China to Maoism. In South Africa, we saw a basically non-violent revolution by blacks end Apartheid, and while leaving many problems unsolved, it solved a fundamental problem without the massive violence of civil war or revolution. We've seen mass movements overthrow dictatorships without war or massive violence, whether in the Philippines or Indonesia, or since 1989 in the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe. No revolution, violent or non-violent, solves problems completely, but non-violent revolutions avoid the horrors of war and move a step in the direction of justice.
SoN: In Declarations of Independence you wrote that "as the war in Vietnam became more vicious and as it became clear that non-combatants were being killed in large numbers; that the Saigon government was corrupt, unpopular, and under the control of our own government; and that the American public was being told lies about the war by our highest officials, the [anti-war] movement grew with amazing speed". Let us substitute Iraq for Vietnam for a moment, and think of the hundreds of thousands of Iraqi lives lost; the sectarian divisions driving the country towards civil war, its fire deliberately stoked by the Americans; the horrors of Fallujah and Abu Ghraib; the puppet Iraqi regime instituted to serve the interests of the forces of occupation; and the American public fed lies about the weapons of mass destruction and the link between Saddam Hussein and al-Qaeda. True, the neo-con agenda has been largely discredited and today less than one in four Americans approve of the Bush administration's grand plan for Iraq, but there is still no real growth in the anti-war movement. What has changed since Vietnam?
HZ: True, the majority opposition to the war has still not reached the point, as in Vietnam, where the government had to consider withdrawing from the war. But the movement has helped turn an 80% support for the war into a 65% opposition to the war. It is more difficult these days to build a movement because of the greater control of the media by the government. But consider that we are only at an early stage in the development of the anti-war movement – it has taken longer – but the direction in which it has gone indicates that we are on the road to ending the war. Another factor delaying this is the nature of the Bush administration, more impervious to public opinion than either the Johnson or Nixon administrations were, more ruthless and dictatorial. More a closed little group of decision-makers listening only to themselves.
SoN: When David Barsamian interviewed you in 1998 you read him Langston Hughes' famous poem "A Dream Deferred", which you also quote in A People's History of the United States. The poem asks: "What happens to a dream deferred? Does it explode?" If all the dreams deferred were to explode one day would you expect this explosion to be controlled and organised, as it was for the most part in the Civil Rights Movement, or indiscriminately violent and frenzied, as it is in the Middle East today?
HZ: In our country, because of our tradition of non-violent protest and achievement, as in the Civil Rights Movement, the Anti-War Movement, the Women's Movement, I would expect it to be non-violent for the most part (no non-violent movement has ever been perfectly so). It might include militant acts of civil disobedience, mutinies in the military, strikes and boycotts and demonstrations, but not the kind of situation we see now in the Middle East.
Pittsburgh Report on Successful Shutdown of Warfare Robotics Facility
Saturday, March 03 2007 @ 03:09 PM PST
Contributed by: Anonymous
Views: 522
On Friday, March 2, Pittsburgh Organizing Group (POG) and supporters set out to shut down the National Robotics Engineering Center (NREC), a largely Pentagon-funded venture of Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) that has become a world leader in warfare robotics. The action succeeded beyond the organizers' expectations.
Pittsburgh Report on Successful Shutdown of Warfare Robotics Facility
For the latest updates, press coverage, and more information, go to www.organizepittsburgh.org/m2
On Friday, March 2, Pittsburgh Organizing Group (POG) and supporters set out to shut down the National Robotics Engineering Center (NREC), a largely Pentagon-funded venture of Carnegie Mellon University (CMU) that has become a world leader in warfare robotics. The action succeeded beyond the organizers' expectations.
Two actions were organized for the purpose of creating a barricade. The first was a non-publicized effort by four affinity groups to barricade the main entrances through the use of lockboxes (long pipes through which people's hands are locked together), u-locks, and a tripod. These groups deployed at 5am, before police were on the scene. This action alone blocked all vehicular access to NREC and severely disrupted the possibility of pedestrian traffic. The second piece of the action was a publicly announced 7:30am march from Friendship Park to NREC, which also intended to barricade the facility. As expected, a large number of police were deployed at various locations to ensure the march would not be able to successfully create a barricade.
It is no surprise that when you announce public plans for a shutdown of a three block-long multi-million dollar facility, especially one heavily funded by the military, that the state may make plans to stop you. The point of the unannounced action was to occupy and hold the space we wanted before the police arrived. The march was intended to bring more people to an ongoing barricade and leave open the possibility of a second attempt if the first was quickly removed. Instead of being forced to push through police lines, with the large confrontation and heavy risks that would have entailed, many people were already where they wanted to be.
It was large-scale disobedience that shut down the facility. Thirty-four people blockaded the main entrances to the facility in the largest act of civil disobedience/direct action in Pittsburgh since the war began. This action marked the first large-scale use of lockboxes, u-locks, and tripods in Pittsburgh and it was the use of these tactics that allowed us to hold the space we did for as long as we did. Having brought in members of Homeland Security one week before the action to train police on how to remove us, it still took the police over five hours to get 15 protesters out of the street, three hours after the police and paramedics actually began trying to cut people out. In the end, the police had deployed 50+ officers from a variety of departments, mostly concentrated at the back gate. FBI members were filming from an observable window across the street.
Midway through the action, the protest marching band showed up playing tunes and waving flags, keeping everyone's spirits high. A banner was dropped from the nearby 40th Street Bridge that read, "Shut Down the War Machine: Stop NREC." (The day before, current and former CMU students dropped a banner on CMU's campus that read, "Don't be a Cog in a War Machine.") Protesters at the front barricades unlocked and dismounted around noon after learning that we had successfully shut the facility down for the day, seven hours after we arrived.
The barricade remained as long as it did because POG utilized a new tactic. This success may otherwise have required hundreds of people engaging in direct confrontation with the police, which would likely have resulted in injuries and a much worse legal situation for the movement.
The action received what might be the most extensive coverage of any local anti-war protest since the beginning of the war. Most of the corporate and independent media in attendance interviewed people on the scene, sometimes reporting live, and throughout the day as well. Links to all the media coverage (with the exception of extremely extensive radio interviews and day long coverage) can be found on the March 2nd website, www.organizepittsburgh.org/m2 .
Not surprisingly, CMU's media response was to argue that the barricade did not completely affect their work. Through telecommuting, off-site events and a rearranging of schedules, they made other arrangements that allowed "nearly everyone" to continue some type of work.
But they missed the point of this action entirely. What we said we'd do, and did in fact do, was barricade the NREC facility as a tangible act of resistance against the war. Our goal was not to hold employees hostage at their homes to ensure they couldn't work on a military project, nor did we intend to stalk people to see what they were working on outside the facility. Much like our repeated shutdowns of the military recruiting station, this action was intended to interject an anti-war message at a war-related facility that has thus far received no public scrutiny.
Forcing recruiters to alter their schedules or denying them access to their offices, delaying the production of military equipment, occupying the offices of legislators, barricading a world leader in warfare robotics - none of these actions are some magic bullet to end war or force a structural change in society. All the work we do is in conjunction with a myriad of other education and action tactics by millions of other people in the country. Petitions, phone calls, letters to the editor, teach-ins, anti-war art, acts of direct action and civil disobedience all serve their part. A movement is spawned and nurtured by creating a climate of systematic resistance throughout large sectors of society. All of these actions contribute to a visible resistance to war, empire and occupation that is growing. POG sees our role, and capability, as continuing to push the movement towards direct action through well-tested methods and experimentation in new tactical directions.
We want to thank everyone who took part in the action, especially the folks who travelled from Illinois, Ohio, Maryland and elsehwere to risk arrest. We also want to thank folks who participated in solidarity outside the jail, attended the bail hearings (it certainly made a difference with the judge!), all of those who gave money and sent messages of support, the marching band, the supporters who housed people, mad props to the boom-boom-bamf group, and everyone who gave us the benefit of the doubt that we wouldn't be completely crushed by the state!
There are court appearances to come. There is also the certainty that we will continue to take on the military recruitment apparatus and confront CMU's direct contribution to warfare.
With love, solidarity and resistance.
Pittsburgh Organizing Group
great pictures
http://www.infoshop.org/inews/article.php?story=2007030315092455
Non-Violent Protestors Defeat Israeli Bulldozer by Sitting on It
http://www.imemc.org/article/47238
Personally I'd rather have robots fighting other robots, than people fighting other people.
they could even play chess and then imprison the leader of the losing country
I understood you as far as playing chess, but...
What's this imprison stuff? What's this leader stuff? For that matter, what's this country stuff?
Quote from: Russell Kanning on March 07, 2007, 12:59 AM NHFT
What Are Lawful Orders?
http://www.military.com/opinion/0,15202,127377,00.html
"The examples I've tossed out here were all civilian in nature, and they all occurred under conditions other than combat. Do the same principles apply to a service member on active duty? More specifically, does a Soldier have the right to practice civil disobedience? Does he or she have the right to refuse an order?
For many military personnel, the knee-jerk response to that last question is no. A Soldier follows orders. Period. That's the nature of military discipline. You don't discuss it; you don't vote on it; and you don't call home to mom to see if it's okay. You square your shoulders, suck in your gut, and carry out your orders."
That is a great column, but I believe you mischaracterized it with your selected quote. I can't speak to what is being taught to service members today, but I can say with certainty that 25 years ago, that the obligation to disobey "unlawful orders" was drilled into every soldier at every training opportunity.
Orders of "where to go" are not unlawful. Orders of "what to do" or "who to shoot" can most certainly be unlawful. The writer Jeff Edwards does seem to understand the difference.
To continue quoting from the same column you quoted:
QuoteWhen he made the decision to disobey his orders, 1st Lt. Ehren Watada wasn't operating under a split-second life-or-death clock, and he wasn't struggling with the pressures of combat. He had ample time to consider the probable results of his chosen course of action, and plenty of opportunity to decide if he was willing to pay the penalty for his decision to disobey orders.
He would have us believe that his motivations were ethical and legal. Although I haven't yet heard him utter the words, he appears to regard his violation of military law as an act of civil disobedience. Maybe it is. But one of the core tenets of civil disobedience is the willingness to face the repercussions of violating the law. Anything less is just posturing for the television cameras.
If Watada truly believes he's doing the right thing, that he's making a personal sacrifice for what is right, he should face his punishment with his head held high. He should wear his incarceration as a badge of honor, as have so many activists who came before him. Instead, he's jumping through every legal hoop imaginable to avoid the penalties for his actions.
When you break the law, you pay the price, even if the law itself is wrong. Rosa Parks knew that and accepted it. Mahatma Gandhi knew it, and he accepted it. So did Susan B. Anthony, Martin Luther King Jr., and a few hundred thousand other protesters and social activists, most of whom we'll never know by name.
I'm beginning to get the impression that Mr. Watada hopes to shortcut the process. It seems to me that his plan is to break the law and then skip right past the ramifications to his victory speech. I'm fairly certain that real life doesn't work that way.
First lieutenant Watada made the conscious decision to let his troops go into battle without him. If he's going to make a personal sacrifice, it can't just be a token gesture. It has to be the real thing. Because the men and women of his unit aren't facing a token threat. They're putting their lives on the line, and -- unless they log on to YouTube or the antiwar blog sites -- the officer who was sworn to protect and lead them is nowhere to be found.
I agree with Lt. Watada that the Iraq invasion was very separate from 9/11. I agree that it was ill-advised, and a serious mistake. That doesn't make deploying to Iraq an "unlawful order". I often thought my military chain of command was wrong, and that they were making poor decisions, but my disagreement didn't make those orders unlawful or immoral.
Kevin
that is funny. I tried to find the most basic quote. .... does a soldier have the right to refuse orders.
I didn't quote the whole thing because it was 2 pages long on their site. :)
He is completely wrong about the statement, "But one of the core tenets of civil disobedience is the willingness to face the repercussions of violating the law. Anything less is just posturing for the television cameras." Most people who have taught or practiced cd are willing, but are not looking forward to face punishment. We are not whipping ourselves .... we are just not going to use force to resist the punishment.
Quote from: error on March 07, 2007, 01:13 AM NHFT
Personally I'd rather have robots fighting other robots, than people fighting other people.
http://news.com.com/Giant+robots+in+the+backyard/2100-1026_3-5499730.html?tag=nl
Orrville woman among those arrested for civil disobedience
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March 18, 2007
By SARAH SKYLARK BRUCE
Staff Writer
WASHINGTON, D.C. -- An Orrville woman was arrested for participating in civil disobedience at the White House during the Christian Peace Witness for Iraq on Friday night.
Susan Mark Landis, a peace advocate for Mennonite Church USA, was one of about 200 nonviolent participants arrested by Lafayette Park Police.
The peace witness was marked by prayer and hymn-singing by the 3,000-4,000 people from numerous Christian denominations in attendance.
The event began with a worship service at the National Cathedral and continued through the streets, past Embassy Row, and culminated at the White House.
Some participants walked a directed route around the White House to surround the building with light from battery-operated faux candles. Others stayed in front of the White House to perform a planned act of civil disobedience.
Landis said her actions were motivated from "divine obedience" and a desire to appeal to the nation's conscience. Christian Peace Witness organizers spoke at length with park police before the event, Landis said.
Participants crossed a police line to pray at the fence surrounding the White House, she explained. The police warned the first 100 three times to leave and then began handcuffing the civil offenders.
The other 100-some participants including Landis also crossed over to the fence, Landis said.
She said they were charged with unauthorized protest because the Christian Peace Witness only had a permit to hold a program in Lafayette Park. Associated Press reports said the first 100 were charged with disobeying a lawful order.
Landis was among those charged with crossing a police line. All were fined $100, according to AP wire reports.
"We knew exactly what was coming," Landis said.
Risking arrest gets media attention, she said, and the participants wanted the opportunity to share their concerns with many people.
"By willingly giving up some of our freedoms ..." she said, "We hope to call attention to the higher law that is to love our enemies and not solve international conflict with war."
Just before the civil disobedience, Landis saw her friend Peter Erb from Mount Eaton.
She hugged him, Erb recalled. Then she said she was ready to risk arrest, he said, and she left to go participate. He noticed she was prepared with volleyball kneepads.
By that point, the lights illuminating the White House had been turned off, Erb said. After the participants waited at the fence for some time, the White House floodlights came back on. Then the arrests began.
Landis has never engaged in civil disobedience before, she said, but she felt called by God to do so this time. Not everyone experiences that call, she clarified.
The police officers were considerate, Landis said. They first asked if any elderly, cold or sick people would like to get on the warm buses before the rest, she recalled.
She felt sympathetic for the unhappy officer who told her he wanted to be at home with his wife and children, she said. She didn't see that officer again, but she wanted to tell him she supports the troops in Iraq and wants them to come home to be with their families, she said.
The police took her and the others to a garage-style holding area, Landis said. She fell asleep at some point and recalled returning to the event's headquarters at New York Avenue Church about 5:15 a.m. The handcuffs only stayed on for about an hour and a half, she said.
Though Landis is a Mennonite and considers herself a pacifist, the majority of the people in the Christian Peace Witness were from other denominations not traditionally associated with pacifism.
Baptists, United Methodists, Presbyterians, Pentecostals, Episcopalians and Catholics were among those who led the worship service at the cathedral.
Landis attends Oak Grove Mennonite Church.
http://www.the-daily-record.com/news/article/1736582
Leo Tolstoy's Last Message to Mankind:
( Written for the 18th International Peace Congress held at Stockholm in 1909.)
Dear Brothers,
We have met here to fight against war. War, the thing for the sake of which all the nations of the earth - millions and millions of people - place at the uncontrolled disposal of a few men or sometimes only one man, not merely milliards of rubles, talers, francs or yen (representing a very large share of their labor), but also their very lives.
And now we, a score of private people gathered from the various ends of the earth, possessed of no special privileges and above all having no power over anyone, intend to fight - and as we wish to fight we also wish to conquer - this immense power not only of one government but of all governments, which have at their disposal these milliards of money and millions of soldiers and who are well aware that the exceptional position of those who for the governments rests on the army alone: the army which has a meaning and a purpose against which we wish to fight and which we wish to abolish.
For us to struggle, the forces being so unequal, must appear insane. But if we consider our opponent's means of strife and our own, it is not our intention to fight that will seem absurd, but that the thing we mean to fight will still exist. They have millions of money and millions of obedient soldiers; we have only one thing, but that is the most powerful thing in the world - Truth.
Therefore, insignificant as our forces may appear in comparison with those of our opponents, our victory is as sure as the victory of the light of the rising sun over the darkness of night.
Our victory is certain, but on one condition only - that when uttering the truth we utter it all, without compromise, concession, or modification. The truth so simple, so clear, so evident, so incumbent not only on Christians but on all reasonable men, that it is only necessary to speak it out in its full significance for it to be irresistible.
The truth in its full meaning lies in what was said thousands of years ago (in the law accepted among us as the Law of God) in four words: Thou shalt not kill. The truth is that man may not and should not in any circumstances or under any pretext kill his fellow man.
The truth is so evident, so binding, and so generally acknowledged, that it is only necessary to put it clearly before men for the evil called war to become quite impossible.
And so I think that if we who are assembled here at this Peace Congress should, instead of clearly and definitely voicing this truth, address ourselves to the governments with various proposals for lessening the evils of war or gradually diminishing its frequency, we should be like men who having in their hand the key to a door, should try to break through walls they know to be too strong for them.
Before us are millions of armed men, ever more and more efficiently armed and trained for more and more rapid slaughter. We know that these millions of people have no wish to kill their fellows and for the most part do not even know why they are forced to do that repulsive work, and that they are weary of their position of subjection and compulsion; we know that the murders committed from time to time by these men are committed by order of the governments; and we know that the existence of the governments depends on the armies.
Can we then who desire the abolition of war, find nothing more conducive to our aim than to propose to the governments which exist only by the aid of armies and consequently by war - measures which would destroy war? Are we to propose to the governments that they should destroy themselves?
The governments will listen willingly to any speeches of that kind, knowing that such discussions will neither destroy war nor undermine their own power, but will only conceal yet more effectively what must be concealed if wars and armies and themselves in control of armies are to continue to exist.
'But', I shall be told, 'this is anarchism; people never have lived without governments and States, and therefore governments and States and military forces defending them are necessary for the existence of nations.'
But leaving aside the question of whether the life of Christian and other nations is possible without armies and wars to defend their governments and States, or even supposing it to be necessary for their welfare that they should slavishly submit to institutions called governments (consisting of people they do not personally know), and that it is necessary to yield up the produce of their labor to these institutions and fulfill all their demands - including the murder of their neighbors - granting them all that, there yet remains in our world an unsolved difficulty.
This difficulty lies in the impossibility of making the Christian faith (which those who form the governments profess with particular emphasis) accord with armies composed of Christians trained to slay. However much you may pervert the Christian teaching, however much you may hide its main principles, its fundamental teaching is the love of God and one's neighbor; of God - that is the highest perfection of virtue, and of one's neighbor - that is all men without distinction. And therefore it would seem inevitable that we must repudiate one of the two, either Christianity is love of God and one's neighbor, or the State with its armies and wars.
Perhaps Christianity may be obsolete, and when choosing between the two - Christianity and love of the State and murder - the people of our time will conclude that the existence of the State and murder is more important than Christianity, we must forgo Christianity and retain only what is important: the State and murder.
That may be so - at least people may think and feel so. But in that case they should say so! They should openly admit that people in our time have ceased to believe in what the collective wisdom of mankind has said, and what is said by the Law of God they profess: have ceased to believe in what is written indelibly on the heart of each man, and must now believe only in what is ordered by various people who by accident or birth have happened to become emperors and kings, or by various intrigues and elections have become presidents or members of senates and parliaments - even if those orders include murder. That is what they ought to say!
But it is impossible to say it; and yet one of these two things has to be said. If it is admitted that Christianity forbids murder, both armies and governments become impossible. And if it is admitted that government acknowledges the lawfulness of murder and denies Christianity, no one will wish to obey a government that exists merely by its power to kill. And besides, if murder is allowed in war it must be still more allowable when a people seek its rights in a revolution. And therefore the governments, being unable to say either one thing or the other, are anxious to hid from their subjects the necessity of solving the dilemma.
And for us who are assembled here to counteract the evil of war, if we really desire to attain our end, only one thing is necessary: namely to put that dilemma quite clearly and definitely both to those who form governments and to the masses of the people who compose the army.
To do that we must not only clearly and openly repeat the truth we all know and cannot help knowing - that man should not slay his fellow man - but we must also make it clear that no considerations can destroy the demand made by the truth on people in the Christian world.
Therefore I propose that our Meeting draw up and publish an appeal to all men, and especially to the Christian nations, in which we clearly and definitely express what everybody knows, but hardly anyone says: namely war is not - as most people assume - a good and laudable affair, but that like all murder, it is a vile and criminal business not only for those who voluntarily choose a military career but for those who submit to it from avarice, or fear of punishment.
With regard to those who voluntarily choose a military career, I would propose to state clearly and definitely that not withstanding all the pomp, glitter, and general approval with which it is surrounded, it is a criminal and shameful activity; and that the higher the position a man holds in the military profession the more criminal and shameful his occupation.
In the same way with regard to men of the people who are drawn into military service by bribes or by threats of punishments, I propose to speak clearly about the gross mistake they make - contrary to their faith, morality and common sense - when they consent to enter the army; contrary to their faith because when they enter the ranks of murderers contrary to the Law of God which they acknowledge; contrary to morality , because for pay or from fear of punishment they agreed to what in their souls they know to be wrong; and contrary to common sense, because if they enter the army and war breaks out they risk having to suffer any consequences, bad or worse than those they are threatened with if they refuse. Above all they act contrary to common sense in that they join that caste of people which deprives them of freedom and compels them to be soldiers.
With reference to both classes I propose in this appeal to express clearly the thought that for men of true enlightenment, who are therefore free from the superstition of military glory, (and their number is growing every day) the military profession and calling not withstanding all the efforts to hide its real meaning, is as shameful a business as the executioner's and even more so. For the executioner only holds himself in readiness to kill those who have been adjudged to be harmful and criminal, while a soldier promises to kill all who he is told to kill, even though they may be the dearest to him or the best of men.
Humanity in general, and our Christian humanity in particular, has reached a stage of such acute contradiction between its moral demands and the existing social order, that a change has become inevitable, and a change not in society's moral demand which are immutable, but in the social order which can be altered. The demand for a different social order, evoked by that inner contradiction which is so clearly illustrated by our preparations for murder, becomes more and more insistent every year and every day.
The tension which demands that alteration has reached such a degree that, just as sometimes only a slight shock is required to change a liquid into a solid body, so perhaps with a slight effort or even a single word may be needed to change the cruel and irrational life of our time - with its divisions, armaments and armies - into a reasonable life in keeping with the consciousness of contemporary humanity.
Every such effort, every such word, may be the shock which will instantly solidify the super cooled liquid. Why should not our gathering be the shock?
In Andersen's fairy tale, when the King went in triumphal procession through the streets of the town and all the people were delighted with his beautiful new clothes, a word from a child who said what everybody knew but had not said, changed everything. He said: 'He has nothing on!' and the spell was broken, and the king became ashamed and all those who had been assuring themselves that they saw him wearing beautiful new clothes perceived that he was naked!
We must say the same. We must say what everybody knows but does not venture to say.
We must say that by whatever name people may call murder - murder always remains murder and a criminal and shameful thing. And it is only necessary to say that clearly, definitely, and loudly, as we can say it here, and men will cease to see what they thought they saw, and will see what is really before their eyes.
They will cease to see the service for their country, the heroism of war, military glory, and patriotism, and will see what exists: the naked, criminal business of murder!
And if people see that, the same thing will happen as in the fairy tale: those who do the criminal thing will feel ashamed, and those who assure themselves that they do not see the criminality of murder will perceive it and cease to be murderers.
But how will nations defend themselves against their enemies, how will they maintain internal order, and how can nations live without an army?
What form of life men will take after they repudiate murder we do not and cannot know; but one thing is certain: that it is more natural for men to be guided by reason and conscience with which they are endowed, than to submit slavishly to people who arrange wholesale murders; and that therefor the form of social order assumed by the lives of those who are guided in their actions not by violence based on threats of murder, but by reason and conscience, will in any case be no worse than that under which they now live.
That is all I want to say. I shall be sorry if it offends or grieves anyone or evokes any ill feeling. But for me, a man eighty years old, expecting to die at any moment, it would be shameful and criminal not to speak out the whole truth as I understand it - the truth which, as I firmly believe, is alone capable of relieving mankind from the incalculable ills produced by war.
I visit federal buildings here in Miami a couple of times each week in my work. Each time I need to walk through a metal detector and put my items on the belt to be x-rayed. I have started telling the federal marshalls that what they are doing is wrong......"I am a citizen and this is my building".....but in the end I comply.
What I am thinking though is......If I had metal all over my body, (wish I had peircings) tin foil thong etc. and basically forced them to strip me everytime I entered a federal building, would I be breaking any laws???????
Now imagine 100's of people doing this in multiple federal buildings........
How about ball bearings that might fall on the floor as they striped/searched me....who is going to pick them up???
any thoughts?
Dropping ball bearings is going to get you arrested on whatever charges they can think of, and a few they'll look up later. And it won't get you any sympathy from anybody because they'll be on TV talking about how you created a terrorist scare. I wouldn't recommend it.
That said, what you COULD do is find about 100 of your closest friends who all are covered in piercings and want to spend a day tweaking the feds to all go into the federal buildings, conduct some one-minute piece of business, and leave again, lather, rinse, repeat. Bonus points if they have genital piercings and aren't shy about it. Extra bonus points if the ONLY piercings they have are genital piercings. LOTS of extra bonus points if you know anyone with a guiche and capture their attempt to get through security on (what will be a very adult) video.
Piercings don't set off metal detectors. The amount of metal in a piercing is negligible.
Caleb
Well, that explains why the TSA never caught the lighter in my pocket.
ok, I need to think this through a little more....a cable thong. Yes!, joined by a lock, should have enough mass to be detected. As I am pulled to the side to be dealt with, a few others will go through. The fourth person in line is obviously a lawyer, dressed in a suit looking very professional and annoyed, but, as it turns out, he is not a lawyer and his undergarments are also prone to rusting...Of course the mom and duaghter behind him couldn't possibly be involved in this action.
LOL tinfoil thong!
What it lacks in comfort, it makes up for in TSA vexation.
I like the way you think, alphincr
welcome to the forum.
Quote from: alphincr on April 19, 2007, 09:36 PM NHFT
ok, I need to think this through a little more....a cable thong. Yes!, joined by a lock, should have enough mass to be detected.
Here you go:
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/15/Fomfr_chastity_belt.jpg/629px-Fomfr_chastity_belt.jpg)
"... Jesus never started a religion either, no matter what the Catholics or Baptists think; but what Jesus did start was a non-violent revolution ..."
http://www.keenefreepress.com/mambo/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=511&Itemid=36
Quote from: Michael Fisher on April 12, 2005, 10:04 AM NHFT
Quote from: katdillon on April 12, 2005, 03:41 AM NHFT
Gandhi said that for civil disobedience to work, the cause must be just.? No one's going to rally behind you for the right to burn $1 bills.? Few will rally for what they view as kids' right to drink.? Something like delivering mail is a much better idea.
Okay. I've spent time looking through the actual US Code, but cannot find the exact law prohibiting private mail carriers.
Can anyone verify that this is illegal by citing the exact law? Does anyone know of any cases where private mail carriers have been shut down?
I believe the first private mail carrier to be shut down was Lysander Spooner. There was also a case in the 1970's where a private company provided local delivery service, I believe it was owned by a young couple. It's cited in one of my Libertarian books, but I have no idea which one.
Here's somethings that I just found about the topic of private mail services:
http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tucker/tucker38.html (http://flag.blackened.net/daver/anarchism/tucker/tucker38.html)
The Lsyander Spoon article
http://www.lysanderspooner.org/WCROP.htm (http://www.lysanderspooner.org/WCROP.htm)
From Wikipedia on the subject
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_Express_Statutes)
Evidence of private mail services
http://stampsjoann.net/PrivateServices/PrivateServices-Intro.html (http://stampsjoann.net/PrivateServices/PrivateServices-Intro.html)
From the horses mouth, the USPS:
https://hdusps.esecurecare.net/cgi-bin/hdusps.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2339&p_created=1058567691&p_sid=PML6p8Bi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MjgmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1wcml2YXRl&p_li=&p_topview=1 (https://hdusps.esecurecare.net/cgi-bin/hdusps.cfg/php/enduser/std_adp.php?p_faqid=2339&p_created=1058567691&p_sid=PML6p8Bi&p_accessibility=0&p_lva=&p_sp=cF9zcmNoPTEmcF9zb3J0X2J5PSZwX2dyaWRzb3J0PSZwX3Jvd19jbnQ9MjgmcF9wcm9kcz0wJnBfY2F0cz0mcF9wdj0mcF9jdj0mcF9wYWdlPTEmcF9zZWFyY2hfdGV4dD1wcml2YXRl&p_li=&p_topview=1)
Must remember to keep this type of business in mind. Could make some money at it.