New Hampshire Underground

Manchester Airport, Saturday June 11th, noon.  Russell will try and board a plane to Philadelphia to see Independence Hall while carrying only a copy of the Declaration of Independence.....no ID.

Stand in line and don't complain!  ;D
This is good. Really good.  ;D

another no-fly victim
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=3398

Some personal experiences with TSA you may find interesting...

A couple of years ago I was in line to be screened and the TSA agent asked me to remove
my shoes.  Now a lot has changed in airports since 9/11, some good, some bad (most), and
some degrading, and I really disliked the whole "remove your shoes" bit.  Maybe it was just a personal
thing that epitomized everything that I felt was wrong with the whole situation.

I groaned and asked, "Is it really necessary?"

To my surprise he shrugged, and said "Unless you want the extra screening."  Given the time of day,
the lines were short and no one else was in the area awaiting extra screening, so I said "OK, sure."
I wanted to see where this went.

I stepped up to the metal detector and the guy on the other side asked me to remove my shoes,
but I said "I'll take the extra screening."  He got a surprised look on his face and waved me through.
Then had me stand in a roped off area while they called a guy with a wand over.

They wanded me, then he patted my ankles and upper and lower back to see if anything was concealed.
Normally I would have been pretty ticked off at this treatment, I certainly was when I'd had it before
for not removing all the metal and change from my pockets.  This time, however, it was no problem
at all.  I even joked with the screener, "Do I tip you now?"  He chuckled.

When it was done with and I was on my way I said, "Have a nice day."  There was a surprised look on
his face, but he responded, "You too, sir."  Total time was probably a couple of minutes.

Fast forward a couple of years and I'm taking another flight so I decide to do the same thing.  The guy
asks me to remove my shoes and I just say "I'll take the extra screening."  I move onto the metal detector
and the guy there asks me to remove my shoes.  "I'll take the extra screening," I say.  He is surprised
and says, "Most people don't *want* the extra screening."  I shrug and the screener moves me to the
"VIP" lane as he calls it (the roped off area).

I am then led over to a chair and a guy with a wand.  He's about to get started, but the screener at the metal
detector says "Just the shoes."  What's this?  I was resigned to the whole wanding and patting down, and
was really debating it in my head whether this was worth it, but this was something new.

Get this: I sit in the chair, the guy pulls out some moistened cloth and swabs both my shoes.  I just had to joke
at this point, "I didn't know you shined shoes!"  Which made him chuckle as well.  He placed the cloth on some
machine, hit a button, and no warnings came up. 

I was on my way in less than 30 seconds, way faster than I could have untied and retied my shoes, plus they
were actually shinier than before.

On the return trip I knew I was definitely going to go for the extra screening.  Less time, shinier shoes...and
strangely I felt some sense of justification.  If they're making everyone remove their shoes, I'm at least going
to make them do their job.

On the return trip I place my belongings on the conveyor belt and step up to the metal detector.  I'm waiting
for the guy on the other side to say something but he justs waves me through.  I pick up my stuff and go on.
Zero down time.  I'm thinking: "This just keeps getting better and better, but I think that guy was probably
supposed to at least look at my shoes."

Reminded me of a line from a famous movie.

That is funny 8)

We're going to the airport tonight for some fun.

Jenn just sent this:

http://www.papersplease.org/davis/facts.html

Commuting By Bus In Denver? Papers, Please.
DEB DAVIS LIKES to commute to work by public bus. She uses the time to read, crochet or pay bills. It's her quiet time. What with the high price of gas, she saves money, too: a week's worth of gas money gets her a month's worth of bus rides.

Deborah Davis and Son

Deborah Davis defends freedom at home while her son serves abroad in Iraq.
The bus she rides crosses the property of the Denver Federal Center, a collection of government offices such as the Veterans Administration, the U.S. Geological Survey, and part of the National Archives. The Denver Federal Center is not a high security area: it's not Area 51 or NORAD.

On her first day commuting to work by bus, the bus stopped at the gates of the Denver Federal Center. A security guard got on and demanded that all of the passengers on this public bus produce ID. She was surprised by the demand of the man in uniform, but she complied: it would have meant a walk of several miles if she hadn't. Her ID was not taken and compared to any "no-ride" list. The guard barely glanced at it.

When she got home, what had happened on the bus began to bother her. 'This is not a police state or communist Russia', she thought. From her 8th grade Civics class she knew there is no law requiring her, as an American citizen, to carry ID or any papers, much less show them to anyone on a public bus.

She decided she would no longer show her ID on the bus.

For the next two weeks she said had no ID. The guards would then ask her if she was getting off on Denver Federal Center property. When she told them 'no', they would let her alone: not once was she ever asked to get off the bus.
The Compliance Test
On Monday, September 26th 2005, Deb Davis headed off to work on the route 100 bus. When the bus got to the gates of the Denver Federal Center, a guard got on and asked her if she had an ID. She answered in the affirmative. He asked if he could see it. She said no.

Welcome.

Visitors Welcome (to be arrested). The entrance to the Denver Federal Center.
When the guard asked why she wouldn't show her ID, Deb told him that she didn't have to do so. The guard then ordered her off the bus. Deb refused, stating she was riding a public bus and just trying to get to work.

The guard then went to call his supervisor, and returned shortly with a federal policeman. The federal cop then demanded her ID. Deb politely explained once again that she would not show her ID, and she was simply commuting to work. He left, returning shortly thereafter with a second policeman in tow.
The Second Compliance Test
This second cop asked the same question and got the same answer: no showing of ID, no getting off the bus.

The cop was also annoyed with the fact that she was on the phone with a friend and didn't feel like hanging up, even when he 'ordered' her to do so.

The second cop said everyone had to show ID any time they were asked by the police, adding that if she were in a Wal-Mart and was asked by the police for ID, that she would have to show it there, too.

She explained that she didn't have to show him or any other policeman my ID on a public bus or in a Wal-Mart. She told him she was simply trying to go to work.
The Arrest
Suddenly, the second policeman shouted "Grab her!" and he grabbed the cell phone from her and threw it to the back of the bus. With each of the policemen wrenching one of her arms behind her back, she was jerked out of her seat, the contents of her purse and book bag flying everywhere. The cops shoved her out of the bus, handcuffed her, threw her into the back seat of a police cruiser, and drove her to a police station inside the confines of the Denver Federal Center.

Once inside, she was taken down a hall and told to sit in a chair, still handcuffed, while one of the policemen went through her purse, now retrieved from the bus.

The two policemen sat in front of their computers, typing and conferring, trying to figure out what they should charge her with. Eventually, they wrote up several tickets, took her outside and removed the handcuffs, returned her belongings, and pointed her toward the bus stop. She was told that if she ever entered the Denver Federal Center again, she would go to jail.

She hasn't commuted by public bus since that day.

She and 50 friends should ride the bus on a saturday and refuse to show ID.

Quote from: howboutanonposting on November 27, 2005, 05:57 PM NHFT
Fast forward a couple of years and I'm taking another flight so I decide to do the same thing.  The guy
asks me to remove my shoes and I just say "I'll take the extra screening."  I move onto the metal detector
and the guy there asks me to remove my shoes.  "I'll take the extra screening," I say.  He is surprised
and says, "Most people don't *want* the extra screening."  I shrug and the screener moves me to the
"VIP" lane as he calls it (the roped off area).

I am then led over to a chair and a guy with a wand.  He's about to get started, but the screener at the metal
detector says "Just the shoes."  What's this?  I was resigned to the whole wanding and patting down, and
was really debating it in my head whether this was worth it, but this was something new.

Get this: I sit in the chair, the guy pulls out some moistened cloth and swabs both my shoes.  I just had to joke
at this point, "I didn't know you shined shoes!"  Which made him chuckle as well.  He placed the cloth on some
machine, hit a button, and no warnings came up. 

I was on my way in less than 30 seconds, way faster than I could have untied and retied my shoes, plus they
were actually shinier than before.

Last night I was at the airport with a lot of time to kill before I picked up my daugther.  I had to get there early if I wanted to meet her at the gate, because they close down the police-state checkpoint when the last plane leaves.  So I decided, I've got all this time, I'll try this.  I kept my shoes on and told the TSA-goon I'd take the extra screening.  She called for a female helper, and I'm thinking, "Damn, they're going to pat me down or something," but all she did was swab my shoes.  I have to admit I rather enjoyed making them get down on their knees and swab my dirty shoes rather than me having to strip  :)

Quote from: katdillon on November 28, 2005, 05:26 AM NHFT
http://www.papersplease.org/davis/facts.html

Commuting By Bus In Denver? Papers, Please.
DEB DAVIS LIKES to commute to work by public bus. She uses the time to read, crochet or pay bills. It's her quiet time. What with the high price of gas, she saves money, too: a week's worth of gas money gets her a month's worth of bus rides.

I sent a message to this lady thru her lawyer and thanked her for having the courage to refuse.  And I told her I'd added her to "freedom's inspirations."

Quote from: katdillon on November 28, 2005, 05:26 AM NHFT
The second cop said everyone had to show ID any time they were asked by the police, adding that if she were in a Wal-Mart and was asked by the police for ID, that she would have to show it there, too.

She explained that she didn't have to show him or any other policeman my ID on a public bus or in a Wal-Mart. She told him she was simply trying to go to work.

The Arrest
Suddenly, the second policeman shouted "Grab her!" and he grabbed the cell phone from her and threw it to the back of the bus. With each of the policemen wrenching one of her arms behind her back, she was jerked out of her seat, the contents of her purse and book bag flying everywhere. The cops shoved her out of the bus, handcuffed her, threw her into the back seat of a police cruiser, and drove her to a police station inside the confines of the Denver Federal Center.

Once inside, she was taken down a hall and told to sit in a chair, still handcuffed, while one of the policemen went through her purse, now retrieved from the bus.

The two policemen sat in front of their computers, typing and conferring, trying to figure out what they should charge her with. Eventually, they wrote up several tickets, took her outside and removed the handcuffs, returned her belongings, and pointed her toward the bus stop. She was told that if she ever entered the Denver Federal Center again, she would go to jail.

:o :o :o

Sounds like a good opportunity for a mass civil disobedience in Denver.   :)

There seems to be at least one that took it to the next level.

Quote from: The Baron on November 29, 2005, 07:58 PM NHFT

Quote from: LeRuineur6 on November 29, 2005, 08:10 AM NHFT
Sounds like a good opportunity for a mass civil disobedience in Denver.?? :)

Unfortunately, the Californicators moved to Denver and bred. I really don't know how many freedom minded people you're going to find.

Yeah I mean a whole state with a few million people... there can't be any.
Of course I can count at least 15 CA people who have moved to NH already and can think of about 10 more.

I sent a message about the Denver thing to fspco and some LP types, asking them to take a ride on the bus w/o ID.

i'll be in CO some this month, let me know if anything is going on that i could participate in

You will have to start it.
We could find you the right bus to hop on.

Quote from: DadaOrwell on December 02, 2005, 05:47 PM NHFT
i'll be in CO some this month, let me know if anything is going on that i could participate in

http://papersplease.org/davis/rally.html (http://papersplease.org/davis/rally.html)

WHAT: Rally for Deb Davis' stand for the Freedom to Travel

WHEN: Friday, the 9th of December at 8:30 AM

WHERE: The steps of the Alfred A. Arraj U.S. Courthouse, 901 19th Street in Denver.


I wonder if that's "too risky" for the FSP-CO group?

http://papersplease.org/gilmore/ (http://papersplease.org/gilmore/)

Meet John Gilmore. He's a 49 year-old philanthropist who lives in San Francisco, California.  Through a lot of hard work (and a little luck), John made his fortune as a programmer and entrepreneur in the software industry.  Whereas most people in his position would have moved to a tropical island and lived a life of luxury, John chose to use his fortune to protect and defend the US Constitution.

On the 4th of July 2002, John Gilmore, American citizen, decided to take a trip from one part of the United States of America to another.  He went to Oakland International Airport -- ticket in hand -- and was told he had to produce his ID if he wanted to travel.  He asked to see the law demanding he show his 'papers' and was told after a time that the law was secret and no, he wouldn't be allowed to read it.

He hasn't flown in his own country since.

On December 8th 2005, oral arguments in Gilmore v. Gonzales will be heard before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.  At stake is nothing less than the right of Americans to travel anonymously in their own country -- and the exposure of 'secret law' for what it is: an abomination.

Quote from: KBCraig on December 05, 2005, 03:05 PM NHFT
http://papersplease.org/gilmore/ (http://papersplease.org/gilmore/)

Meet John Gilmore... <snipped his story (Olehenry)>


On December 8th 2005, oral arguments in Gilmore v. Gonzales will be heard before the 9th Circuit Court of Appeals.? At stake is nothing less than the right of Americans to travel anonymously in their own country -- and the exposure of 'secret law' for what it is: an abomination.

RE: The right to travel anonymously.

What are the options?

Does this person and/or you intend to support laws that prohibit private businesses (run and owned by individuals) from discriminating against potential travelers?

Or do we exclude the gov't as mediator and leave it to the prvate business to discriminate as each sees fit? 
example: A private airline refuses to sell a ticket to any individual for any reason.

"Right to travel anonymously".  Is there a "right" enforcer?
1) government
2) individual
3) gods

Then, can we not substitute other ideas, such as "right to shelter", "right to enter properties", "right to education", etc...

Who enforces these "rights"?
1) government
2) individual
3) gods

I doubt individuals have "rights".  I *do* know I have needs and wants.

Why rights?

Olehenry

The argument is against government demanding, or, requiring private transportation companies to demand identification.
What companies demand on their own is up to them.
I personally believe that if the government wasn't always bailing out the airlines and the airline's insurance companies had to pay all lawsuits and damages, we would all be flying naked and costs would be increased due to the thorough inspection of everything that went on the plane.

Hey Gilmore could head to Denver and hop a bus .... that would stir the pot. :)

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,69774,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3 (http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,69774,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3)

Its getting closer and more press is picking it up.  Hopefully it will raise some good points and get people talking about them.  I don't expect the court system to do the right thing tho.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051207/ap_on_re_us/airplane_shooting

How many shots?
It must have been fun for the people that got their bags blown up.

Well, at least he had his ID, and that's what's important. ::)

What do you do when a guy starts running around like crazy? ..... but it does seem like we overreact because a plane was involved.....he wasn't carrying a bomb after all ..... was he?

Quote from: russellkanning on December 07, 2005, 06:26 PM NHFT
What do you do when a guy starts running around like crazy? ..... but it does seem like we overreact because a plane was involved.....he wasn't carrying a bomb after all ..... was he?

If a guy started running around like crazy, said he had a bomb, and threatened to kill everyone, I would probably shoot him, too. :-\

Which would be terrible because I don't ever want to do that.

Like Mike said, he didn't get shot for "running around crazy". He got shot because he said he had a bomb and took off running into an airport terminal that was presumably crowded with people. If he'd gotten past the jetway, then 1) there was a greater risk to people if he really did have a bomb; and, 2) catching him and stopping him would have been harder and riskier because of the crowds (not to mention the risk of bystanders being hurt by bomb/gunshot/panic/being run over by responding cops.

Legally and morally, if someone threatens with a non-existent weapon, you may act as if the weapon really exists. A bank robber who gestures with nothing more than his hand in his jacket pocket is guilty of armed robbery.

Kevin

This case bothers me for a lot of reasons:
1: The guy was shot as he was running down the tarmac. (not in the plane)
2. His wife was screaming about his being bipolar, that he had not taken medication. (apparently nobody paid attention to her)
3. He was shot because he wouldn't stop. ( five shots according to one witness. Law enforcement officials can kill you if you disobey them. Does that bother anyone else? If you disobey an officer, the punishment for same is not the death penalty.)

Maybe he has a bomb because he's bipolar.   ???

Quote from: AlanM on December 07, 2005, 10:51 PM NHFT
This case bothers me for a lot of reasons:
1: The guy was shot as he was running down the tarmac. (not in the plane)

He was running down the jetway, not the tarmac. (For those of you who don't fly, the jetway is the accordion hallway thing that connects the plane to the terminal.)

Quote2. His wife was screaming about his being bipolar, that he had not taken medication. (apparently nobody paid attention to her)

Nor should they have, so long as he continued with the threat.

Quote3. He was shot because he wouldn't stop. ( five shots according to one witness. Law enforcement officials can kill you if you disobey them. Does that bother anyone else? If you disobey an officer, the punishment for same is not the death penalty.)

If you find a burglar in your home, and order him to freeze and keep his hands in sight, and instead he reaches into a bag, would it be "the death penalty for disobeying Alan"?

Of course not. You'd be justified in shooting because he was a threat, and continuing his threatening behavior.

With the caveat of "as things have been reported until this point", this was a justified shooting. Of course, at this point of the London subway shooting, we thought the same thing. I'm not passing judgement on anything except the points that have been reported thus far.

Kevin

Quote from: KBCraig on December 07, 2005, 11:11 PM NHFT

Quote from: AlanM on December 07, 2005, 10:51 PM NHFT
This case bothers me for a lot of reasons:
1: The guy was shot as he was running down the tarmac. (not in the plane)

He was running down the jetway, not the tarmac. (For those of you who don't fly, the jetway is the accordion hallway thing that connects the plane to the terminal.)

Quote2. His wife was screaming about his being bipolar, that he had not taken medication. (apparently nobody paid attention to her)

Nor should they have, so long as he continued with the threat.

Quote3. He was shot because he wouldn't stop. ( five shots according to one witness. Law enforcement officials can kill you if you disobey them. Does that bother anyone else? If you disobey an officer, the punishment for same is not the death penalty.)

If you find a burglar in your home, and order him to freeze and keep his hands in sight, and instead he reaches into a bag, would it be "the death penalty for disobeying Alan"?

Of course not. You'd be justified in shooting because he was a threat, and continuing his threatening behavior.

With the caveat of "as things have been reported until this point", this was a justified shooting. Of course, at this point of the London subway shooting, we thought the same thing. I'm not passing judgement on anything except the points that have been reported thus far.

Kevin

You may be right in your analysis, but it bothers me that officers are given a free hand to gun folks down. Or so it seems to me.

Quote from: AlanM on December 07, 2005, 11:14 PM NHFT
You may be right in your analysis, but it bothers me that officers are given a free hand to gun folks down. Or so it seems to me.

I understand the concern. If a shooting is justified, it doesn't matter whether it's a police officer or a private citizen who pulls the trigger. But you're right that there are "justified" police shootings that would get a citizen prosecuted.

Kevin

Quote from: KBCraig on December 07, 2005, 11:23 PM NHFT

Quote from: AlanM on December 07, 2005, 11:14 PM NHFT
You may be right in your analysis, but it bothers me that officers are given a free hand to gun folks down. Or so it seems to me.

I understand the concern. If a shooting is justified, it doesn't matter whether it's a police officer or a private citizen who pulls the trigger. But you're right that there are "justified" police shootings that would get a citizen prosecuted.

Kevin

Just so you know, Kevin. I have a cousin who was high up in the NH State Police, and a nephew who was a Delaware State Policeman. I have heard the talk.

http://www.wired.com/news/politics/0,1283,69774,00.html?tw=wn_tophead_3

Secret ID Law to Get Hearing

By Ryan Singel  |   Also by this reporter

02:00 AM Dec. 07, 2005 PT

Although John Gilmore lives just five blocks from San Francisco's Department of Motor Vehicles, his driver's license is expired. On purpose.

The outspoken, techno-hippie, wealthy civil libertarian doesn't want to give his Social Security number to the DMV.

Neither will he show his driver's license at airports, or submit to routine security searches. This refusal to obey the rules led him to file suit against the Bush administration (Gilmore v. Gonzales) after being rebuffed at two different airports on July 4, 2002, when he tried to fly without showing identification. One airline offered to let Gilmore fly without showing ID, but only if he underwent more intensive security screening, which he declined.

On Thursday, Gilmore and his lawyers will get 20 minutes in front of the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals to make their argument against identification requirements and government secrecy, in a case that time and shifting public opinion has transformed from a quirky millionaire's indignant protest into a closely watched test of the limitations of executive branch power.

"The nexus of the case has always been the right to travel," Gilmore said. "Can the government prevent Americans from moving around in their own country by slapping any silly rules on them -- you have to show ID, you have to submit to searches, you have to wear a yarmulke?"

Gilmore has sunk thousands of dollars into fighting identification requirements, but he also personally committed to not traveling in the United States if he has to show identification.

So Gilmore has not taken a train, an intercity bus or a domestic flight since July 4, 2002. He still flies internationally.

Gilmore describes himself as being under "regional arrest," and said he would love to drive and fly again.

"I'm a millionaire," Gilmore said. "I can do whatever the fuck I want, right? Why should I run around without an ID? Because no one else was paying attention to that and letting our liberties slip down the drain. I figured it was worth some amount of money and some amount of personal sacrifice to keep a free society."

Gilmore has long been a prominent figure in the privacy and civil liberties communities -- he co-founded the Electronic Frontier Foundation. But many civil liberties advocates begged Gilmore not to file suit in 2002 because they were certain he would lose and set bad case law, according to Gilmore's lawyer, Jim Harrison.

Things might be different in late 2005.

"The same people that were telling John that you really should not do this while the country is inflamed are the same ones that filed friend-of-the-court briefs to the 9th Circuit," Harrison said.

Gilmore also thinks the mood of the country has changed. "It is now considered patriotic to criticize the president," Gilmore said.

While civil liberties groups now publicly back Gilmore's challenge to government secrecy, many privacy advocates still privately grumble that Gilmore's case is not the best vehicle for challenging identification requirements.

On Thursday, Gilmore will argue that the government's secret identification rules -- no federal law compels travelers to show ID -- and no-fly list infringe on his First Amendment rights, but don't make the country safer.

In addition, government lawyers long denied the existence of the rule -- which predates the Sept. 11 terrorist attacks -- even though there are signs in airports cautioning passengers that they are required to show identification.

The government recently switched tactics, acknowledging the rule exists but arguing that the identification requirement is a law-enforcement technique.

So far, the government has refused to show Gilmore the order compelling airlines to ask for identification, saying that the rule is "sensitive security information," a security designation that was greatly expanded by Congress in 2002, allowing the Transportation Security Administration wide latitude to withhold information from the public.

Gilmore argues that secrecy and the power of the "sensitive security information," or SSI, designation is to blame for the repeated privacy scandals at the TSA.

"TSA and DHS in general have set themselves up to be insulated from criticism, to have their inner workings be invisible, because they can pull this magic SSI shield over anything they do," Gilmore said. "And what you see are the natural consequences of that kind of secrecy, which is that incompetence is never detected and corrected."

Eyewitness: "I Never Heard the Word 'Bomb'"
A passenger on Flight 924 gives his account of the shooting and says Rigoberto Alpizar never claimed to have a bomb

Time Magazine/SIOBHAN MORRISSEY | December 8 2005

At least one passenger aboard American Airlines Flight 924 maintains the federal air marshals were a little too quick on the draw when they shot and killed Rigoberto Alpizar as he frantically attempted to run off the airplane shortly before take-off.

"I don't think they needed to use deadly force with the guy," says John McAlhany, a 44-year-old construction worker from Sebastian, Fla. "He was getting off the plane." McAlhany also maintains that Alpizar never mentioned having a bomb.

"I never heard the word 'bomb' on the plane," McAlhany told TIME in a telephone interview. "I never heard the word bomb until the FBI asked me did you hear the word bomb. That is ridiculous." Even the authorities didn't come out and say bomb, McAlhany says. "They asked, 'Did you hear anything about the b-word?'" he says. "That's what they called it."

When the incident began McAlhany was in seat 24C, in the middle of the plane. "[Alpizar] was in the back," McAlhany says, "a few seats from the back bathroom. He sat down." Then, McAlhany says, "I heard an argument with his wife. He was saying 'I have to get off the plane.' She said, 'Calm down.'"

Alpizar took off running down the aisle, with his wife close behind him. "She was running behind him saying, 'He's sick. He's sick. He's ill. He's got a disorder," McAlhany recalls. "I don't know if she said bipolar disorder [as one witness has alleged]. She was trying to explain to the marshals that he was ill. He just wanted to get off the plane."


McAlhany described Alpizar as carrying a big backpack and wearing a fanny pack in front. He says it would have been impossible for Alpizar to lie flat on the floor of the plane, as marshals ordered him to do, with the fanny pack on. "You can't get on the ground with a fanny pack," he says. "You have to move it to the side."

By the time Alpizar made it to the front of the airplane, the crew had ordered the rest of the passengers to get down between the seats. "I didn't see him get shot," he says. "They kept telling me to get down. I heard about five shots."

McAlhany says he tried to see what was happening just in case he needed to take evasive action. "I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official."

In the ensuing events, many of the passengers began crying in fear, he recalls. "They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground," he says "One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

McAlhany said he saw Alpizar before the flight and is absolutely stunned by what unfolded on the airplane. He says he saw Alpizar eating a sandwich in the boarding area before getting on the plane. He looked normal at that time, McAlhany says. He thinks the whole thing was a mistake: "I don't believe he should be dead right now."

U.S. passenger tracking plan under scrutiny

ZD Net/Alorie Gilbert | December 8 2005

A U.S. proposal that would require the travel industry to gather more passenger data and share it with federal health officials has some citizens worried about their privacy.

The new rule, proposed last month by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, aims to broaden the agency's quarantine powers amid rising fears of a deadly, global flu outbreak. It would also expand the government's ability to contact passengers who may have been infected during travel via a coordinated data-gathering effort with airlines and cruise operators.

Specifically, the plan calls for airlines and cruise companies to collect more personal data, including phone numbers, e-mail addresses and seat locations, from both domestic and international passengers and transmit the information to the CDC within 12 hours of a request. The companies would be required to retain the data electronically for at least 60 days and destroy it after one year.

But judging from the first round of public comments posted online Wednesday, some people are up in arms over the proposed rule and its data-collection requirements. Their concerns, voiced in a dozen or so comments, center mainly on potential civil liberty violations.

"I am opposed to requiring any more information from people booking air travel," wrote David Kelley of Alexandria, Va. "There is already too much information collected, and adding more is totally uncalled for. We are supposed to be living in a free society that respects the privacy of its citizens, not a police state."

Some questioned the effectiveness and cost of such a program. "In my opinion, concern over pandemics is a reason to spend more effort on technologies to develop immunizations and treatments more rapidly," wrote David Young. "Violating civil liberties does not cure sick people, and in our society of rapid transportation it is impractical if not impossible to limit travel enough to significantly slow down a worldwide pandemic."

Several people were worried that other agencies could raid the new CDC data for their own purposes. "Left unsaid is, who else and what other agencies will collect this information and how long will they keep it?" wrote John Clark of Highland, Mich. "The Patriot Act trumps CDC rules so all information collected will be available in the FBI, CIA, Mossad and Mayberry PD data banks."

Opposition over the plan comes amid new reports of the government bungling terrorist watch lists. Officials at the U.S. Transportation Security Administration acknowledged this week that 30,000 airline passengers have been mistakenly identified as people on federal watch lists.

A CDC spokeswoman said the agency is pleased that people are weighing in on its proposed rule but declined to respond to concerns. The agency plans to address public remarks after the comment period ends Jan. 30, and expects to issue a final rule by next spring, she said.

Quote from: katdillon on December 08, 2005, 05:27 PM NHFT

"I wanted to make sure if anything was coming toward me and they were killing passengers I would have a chance to break somebody's neck," he says. "I was looking through the seats because I wanted to see what was coming.

"I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand...."

This man sounds like he would defend himself in a scary situation.  Yet he wasn't alarmed enough by Mr. Alpizar's behavior to take action against him.  The "official" with the shotgun scared more people than Mr. Alpizar did.  I'd rather be traveling with people like Mr. McAlhany than the jumpy air marshall and his dominating goons.

Quote from: katdillon on December 08, 2005, 05:31 PM NHFT
U.S. passenger tracking plan under scrutiny

ZD Net/Alorie Gilbert | December 8 2005

A U.S. proposal that would require the travel industry to gather more passenger data and share it with federal health officials has some citizens worried about their privacy.

The new rule, proposed last month by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, aims to broaden the agency's quarantine powers amid rising fears of a deadly, global flu outbreak. It would also expand the government's ability to contact passengers who may have been infected during travel via a coordinated data-gathering effort with airlines and cruise operators.

They can't collect the info for security reasons so they will do it for health reasons. Now we know why Bush is pushing the avian flu mutating to spread amongst humans.

Quote from: patmccotter on December 08, 2005, 06:58 PM NHFT

Quote from: katdillon on December 08, 2005, 05:31 PM NHFT
U.S. passenger tracking plan under scrutiny

ZD Net/Alorie Gilbert | December 8 2005

A U.S. proposal that would require the travel industry to gather more passenger data and share it with federal health officials has some citizens worried about their privacy.

The new rule, proposed last month by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention, aims to broaden the agency's quarantine powers amid rising fears of a deadly, global flu outbreak. It would also expand the government's ability to contact passengers who may have been infected during travel via a coordinated data-gathering effort with airlines and cruise operators.

They can't collect the info for security reasons so they will do it for health reasons. Now we know why Bush is pushing the avian flu mutating to spread amongst humans.

I think you hit it on the nose, Pat. Create a crisis, then create a bureacracy with more power to solve it.
Sounds a lot like 9-11 to me.

This boils down to personal responsibility.? If your mental condition is such that you are likely to run around on a plane causing a scene then perhaps you should either not fly or take medication to reduce the likelihood of you doing such things.? Had this man actually had a bomb and the air marshals not stopped him all the discussion would have been that they should have done more.? Sadly, erring on the side of caution cost this man his life.

Next time you're in Manchester airport, why not take a backpack and run into a terminal via the exit hallway (past the single security guard sitting there), screaming "I have a bomb!" and see what happens to you.

While he may or may not have said he had a bomb, one witness did say he was screaming "I've got to get off"? An airplane is not the sort of place you'd want to lose control of your mental faculties.? If some guy on a plane about to take off starts looking a bit wild eyed and tries to run off I'm going to be a bit worried.? If I'm an air marshal it's my job to do something about it, and the luxury of time is not something afforded in situations such as this.

While this situation is tragic, it is born of this man's own actions.? Let us not forget this.

I think it is more because of some people's hypersensitivity to anything related to planes.

  I hope the airline industry comes crashing down, myself. It is an example of Government regulation destroying something useful.

I would rather the government get out of the airline business. :)

Quote from: russellkanning on December 09, 2005, 09:25 AM NHFT
I would rather the government get out of the airline business. :)

I thought you wanted the government to go out of business.  ;)

Quote from: AlanM on December 09, 2005, 09:31 AM NHFT

Quote from: russellkanning on December 09, 2005, 09:25 AM NHFT
I would rather the government get out of the airline business. :)

I thought you wanted the government to go out of business.? ;)

incrementalism!

 ;D

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=3515
Airport Security Dept.

 Rigoberto, Requiesce in Pace

by Becky Akers
by Becky Akers

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So now we add murder to the sexual assault and robbery that the Transportation Security Administration (TSA) commits against us.

Turns out Leviathan is a stereotypical murderer, as addicted to lying as the killers it incarcerates. It has yet to come clean about its slaughter of Rigoberto Alpizar, the American Airlines passenger gunned down by air marshals on Wednesday. Then again, why should it? Leviathan has lied for millennia and gotten away with it.

Not this time, though. The state's sloppy whoppers began unravelling as soon as they were spun. The government tried to paint Mr. Alpizar as aggressive, the sort anyone might reasonably mistake for a terrorist; his neighbors and family slashed that portrait. "Rigo Alpizar was a loving, gentle and caring husband, uncle, brother, son and friend," his sister-in-law told CNN, while a neighbor described him to Florida's Sun Sentinel: "He was a nice guy, always smiling, always talkative. Everybody is talking about a guy I know nothing about." A second neighbor echoed that: he was "very friendly and helpful to people around the neighborhood ... a very pleasant person, he and his wife both." As if this weren't enough, the couple was returning from a missionary trip to Ecuador, during which they assisted Mrs. Alpizar's uncle, a volunteer dentist. It seems that Rigo was about as far as he could get from the Al Qaeda terrorist the air marshals want us to think they perceived.

The Alpizars had arrived in Miami's airport from South America, endured the rude, hostile welcome of US Customs, and were catching a connecting flight home to Orlando ? a flight which tragically included two air marshals among its passengers. Rigo suffered from a bipolar disorder. He was already agitated when he boarded the plane, but in the final moments before the jet pulled away from the gate, his anxiety became so acute he bolted from his seat and ran for the door. And why not? Everything connected with American aviation anymore traumatizes those in perfect emotional health, let alone anyone struggling with bipolarism.

The government's most shameless lie concerns what happened next. It alleges that Rigo was shouting "I have a bomb!" as he fled. Right. Terrorists often sneak explosives past those enthusiastic gropers at the TSA checkpoints only to scream their intentions once they board a plane full of unsuspecting passengers.

It?s also surprising those passengers so calmly accepted Rigo?s announcement. There was no stampede as folks fought to leave an aircraft supposedly about to blow, nor did panicked parents push their children into the aisle with instructions to run. Indeed, no passenger even remembers Alpizar?s uttering the "B-word," though everyone agrees the air marshals and the FBI have. Copiously. CNN reported that "Dave Adams, a spokesman for the Federal Air Marshal Service, said Alpizar had run up and down the plane's aisle yelling, 'I have a bomb in my bag.'"

That contrasts with a passenger who "recalled Alpizar saying, 'I've got to get off, I've got to get off.'" Another remembered that "he wasn't saying anything; he was just running." Nor did this witness immediately think, "Terrorism!" Being a rational person instead of a hyped-up air marshal, he settled for a likelier explanation: "I said to myself, 'It is probably a person who took the wrong plane.'" A second man of similar rationality assumed Alpizar was nauseated and heading for the men?s room. Furthermore, Mrs. Alpizar chased her husband, trying to help and inadvertently explaining the situation to everyone, including the trigger-happy sky-cops. A passenger told CNN, "She was just saying her husband was sick, her husband was sick."

Also chasing poor Rigo were the marshals. Intriguingly, they were the only witnesses to Alpizar?s distress who concluded he posed a threat; no one else described Rigo as dangerous. Rather, they used words like "crazy" and "frantic": "He was running like a crazy man," one passenger told AP. Said another, "He was frantic, his arms flailing in the air."

But he didn?t fool our crack team of Robocops. They followed him onto the jetway and shot him because, they claimed, he had hollered about a bomb and was reaching into his backpack to detonate it. No explosives were found on Rigo?s body or in his baggage.

"Based on their training [the air marshals] had to take the appropriate action to defuse the situation to prevent a danger to themselves and also passengers in the terminal," spokes-stooge Adams told CNN. Yo, Dave: icing a man in cold blood does not "defuse the situation." And only government dweebs consider homicide an "appropriate action."

Trying to justify the murder of this innocent man, Leviathan has changed its story, as liars do. The Feds originally had Rigo declaiming about a bomb while running "up and down" the plane's aisle. But at least seven passengers deny that Rigo mentioned anything about a bomb, and several insist he did not speak at all. "I can tell you, he never said a thing in that airplane. He never called out he had a bomb," an architect named Jorge Borrelli told the Orlando Sentinel. "He never said a word from the point he passed me at Row 9. . . . He did not say a word to anybody." So Leviathan now alleges that Rigo shouted about the bomb in the jetway, where his killers were the only witnesses.

Sometimes Our Masters are just too stupid for words. Sound waves travel, guys, OK? Even if the passengers couldn't see the jetway, they could hear what was going on out there: "I heard very clearly, 'Stop!' and about four to six gunshots," Borrelli of Row 9 told the Orlando Sentinel. "At that point the flight attendants started screaming, 'Get down! Get down!'"

We come now to the state?s only truthful moment in this whole anti-Constitutional mess. "It appears that [the air marshals] followed the protocols and did what they were trained to do," White House Press Patsy Scott McClellan told CNN. "...these marshals appear to have acted in a way that is consistent with the extensive training that they have received."

We'll leave aside the question of whether we can call "extensive" seven weeks of training followed by the odd day here and there. Then again, we?d be better off under untrained marshals, given the slogan pounded into recruits: "Dominate. Intimidate. Control."

This chillingly fascist motto prompts agreement with Rep. John Mica (R-Fla), chairman of the House aviation subcommittee, who crowed to USA Today, "The system worked exactly as designed."

Shooting unarmed, obviously distraught Americans who are hurrying to disembark without having asked permission before their plane pushes away from the gate... Clearly, the system worked exactly as designed. And here Mica unwittingly pulls the veil from Leviathan's snout to reveal the beast?s evil smirk. Neither the perverts groping us at the TSA's checkpoints nor the bullies whose pathology finds an outlet in "air marshalling" have anything to do with protecting us. They are there to dominate, intimidate and control us. And to shoot those they can't.

Further proof that the TSA exists to dominate, intimidate and control passengers comes from the abuse of Flight 924's surviving ones. As always when the government alleges a threat, everyone in the vicinity is considered not a victim of said threat but an agent of it. That sent a variety of brutes, from SWAT teams to local police, swarming aboard the plane. They ordered passengers who had committed no crime nor broken any law to put their hands on their heads. "It was quite scary," one woman told the Sun Sentinel. "They wouldn't let you move. They wouldn't let you get anything out of your bag..."

Another passenger told Time Magazine, "I was on the phone with my brother. Somebody came down the aisle and put a shotgun to the back of my head and said put your hands on the seat in front of you. I got my cell phone karate chopped out of my hand. Then I realized it was an official... They were pointing the guns directly at us instead of pointing them to the ground. One little girl was crying. There was a lady crying all the way to the hotel."

The bags of these passengers who had committed no crime nor broken any law were strewn outside the aircraft, where bomb-sniffing dogs set to work on them. Cops frisked the passengers before marching them off the plane for more domination, intimidation, and interrogation. No news account I've seen mentions a search warrant. I wonder whether any brave soul asked to see one or refused to be felt up in its absence.

The death of Rigoberto Alpizar is not an "unfortunate incident," as Rep[rehensible] Mica so callously called it. It is instead the logical result of a people eagerly trading its freedom for security, of cowards who see terrorists crouched behind every tray table, of adults childishly scaring themselves with ghost stories of phantasmagorical bombers. Tragically, these babies look to their Congressional nannies for a protection they shouldn?t want and don?t need. And Congress happily rushes to oblige. Rep. Mica boasted to USA Today, "We've got a small army out there ready to protect and defend the flying public."

Yep. And like any army, it shoots to kill.

December 12, 2005

Becky Akers [send her mail] writes primarily about the American Revolution.

So is it time to board a plane with a gun so maybe we can defend ourselves against the sky marshalls?

Is it time to stop paying taxes into leviathan?

Our government is killing people. I think they are starting with the middle eastern looking people.

So on my flight last Friday from Boston.  Everyone took their shoes off but me in line.
I just walked right on through.

At SFO on Monday I was told to take my shoes off several times.  I refused.  I did not get the pat down.  I just got the foot swabbing, then I was allowed to go past.

8)
I haven't taken my shoes off either .... but I don't fly much.

Quote from: Dreepa on December 13, 2005, 11:33 AM NHFT
At SFO on Monday I was told to take my shoes off several times.? I refused.?

That's the spirit!

I didn't take my shoes off at Manchester when we flew out on the 3rd. They didn't even act put upon, just swabbed my grungy tennies and off I went. Worlds faster than those retying shoes.

Cathleen

http://www.detroitnews.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20051215/OPINION03/512150320/1016

Thursday, December 15, 2005

George Weeks

License-passport will solve security worry

Their titles are the same, but not their job descriptions.

U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, former national security adviser in the White House, deals with diplomacy. Michigan Secretary of State Terri Lynn Land deals with driver licenses and other decidedly domestic affairs.

But Land also is on the front line of a national security and diplomatic matter that could not be imagined by her 40 pre-terrorism predecessors: ensuring safe borders and other aspects of homeland security.

Land has a good idea that she's discussed with the Department of Homeland Security, members of Congress, Canadian officials and assorted interest groups who have a stake in the proposed new federal regulations on the Real ID Act and the Western Hemisphere Travel Initiative.

The regulations would require a passport or the equivalent to document re-entry to the United States by Jan. 1, 2008. The Detroit Regional Chamber and others fret that a passport-grade requirement for crossing would disrupt tourism and interrupt the $411 billion in U.S.-Canada trade.

U.S. Rep. Bart Stupak, D-Menominee, co-chair of the 55-member Northern Border States Caucus, is among those who have discussed the possibility of a three-year delay in implementation.

"The testimonies by the representatives of the busiest chambers of commerce in the U.S. and Canada gave me reason to believe that the implementation of this proposal, in its current form, may have a negative economic impact on both countries," Stupak says.

A lengthy delay would be a mistake. It could be avoided by expedited consideration of Land's idea of a dual driver's license/passport that would simplify the federal requirements for foreign travel by combining state driver's license and federal passport into a single document.

The state would determine upon issuing the license whether the applicant is a citizen, and that information would appear in a bar code or magnetic strip that border patrol officers could scan.

Land says Michigan might be offered as a pilot project for applying the concept. If place-of-birth and other federally required information for border passage are put on our driver's licenses, it might mean a slight increase in the cost of obtaining a license.

Another five bucks or so would be worth it if it would contribute to better border security.

"Let Michigan be a pilot," Land says.

Another 2005 national model pushed by Land was the America's Waterways Watch project in which she sought, through mailings to nearly 300,000 watercraft owners, to encourage them to watch out for suspicious activity on waterways and report it to the Coast Guard.

In a year-end interview, she also bragged about other accomplishments: a 43 percent decrease in waiting time for customers, expense reductions that enabled her to redirect about $600,000 to enhance customer services, directing $4 million in federal funds to Detroit so that next year it will join the state in a uniform optical scan voting system and others.

But what strike me most about Land's year are her efforts on homeland security.

George Weeks is The News' political columnist. Reach him at (517) 371-3660 or gweeks07 at aol.com

Babies On US No Fly List

Reuters/Caroline Drees | December 16 2005

Sarah Zapolsky was checking in for a flight to Italy when she discovered her 9-month-old son's name was on the United States' "no-fly" list of suspected terrorists.

"We pointed down to the stroller, and he sat there and gurgled," Zapolsky said, recalling the incident at Dulles International Airport outside Washington in July. "The desk agent started laughing. ... She couldn't print us out a boarding pass because he's on the no-fly list."

Zapolsky, who did not want her son's name made public, said she was initially amused by the mix-up. "But when I found out you can't actually get off the list, I started to get a bit annoyed."

Zapolsky isn't alone.

According to the Transportation Security Administration, more than 28,000 people have applied to the TSA redress office to get on the "cleared list," which takes note of individuals whose names are similar to those on the terrorism watch list, but does not guarantee an end to no-fly list hassles.

The TSA does not reveal how many or which names are actually on the list, and complaints do not get names removed since they refer to suspected terrorists. The best innocent travelers can hope for is a letter from the TSA which it says should facilitate travel, but is no panacea.

In addition to babies, the victims of mistaken identity on the no-fly list have included aging retirees and public figures such as Democratic Sen. Edward Kennedy of Massachusetts, Republican Rep. Don Young of Alaska and Democratic Rep. John Lewis of Georgia.

"It's a significant problem," said Brenda Jones, the spokeswoman for Rep. Lewis, who travels by plane at least twice a week. She said the congressman had written to the TSA, but "he is still on the no-fly list, and the problems persist."

SECRETIVE LIST

The classified no-fly list was adopted after the September 11, 2001, hijacked plane attacks to prevent suspected terrorists from getting on aircraft or coming to the United States. Airlines must check passenger names against the list before they are allowed to get on a plane.

While the number of suspected terrorists on the list is unknown, aviation sources estimate it includes tens of thousands of names, if not more.

TSA spokesman Christopher White said the agency had seven people working full-time on processing applications to get on the cleared list. Considering the number of applications, that works out to more than 4,000 complaints per redress officer.

"We do take the cleared list very seriously, and it's also important for us to focus on the right people. It does us no good to focus on the wrong John Doe," White said.

Cleared individuals receive a letter from the TSA which says "we have provided sufficient personal information to the airlines to distinguish you from other individuals" but cautions that "TSA cannot ensure that your travel will be delay free."

John Graham, a 63-year-old former State Department official, said his TSA letter had not helped at all.

"I'm at a point now where I don't really care whether my name is on the list as a mistake, as mistaken identity, or whether someone at TSA does intend to hassle me. The fact is, there's a total absence of due process," he said.

The American Civil Liberties Union calls the no-fly list system unconstitutional, saying it treats people as guilty without a trial and unfairly deprives them of freedoms. It also says the system is an inaccurate and ineffective security method.

Despite efforts by the TSA to address complaints and concerns about the no-fly list, ACLU attorney Reggie Shuford said very little had changed to improve the process.

"We continually hear from people being caught up on the no-fly list with the same frustrating experiences and inability to get off the list," he said.

Peter Johnson, a retired bibliographer at Princeton University, said travel became "hellish" after he discovered his name was on the no-fly list in August 2004.

"I'm not sure if what's behind this is an effort to simply control people or if it's largely mismanagement and poorly conceptualized programming," Johnson said, adding a TSA official had told him there were more than 2,000 other Peter Johnsons in the United States who reported similar problems.

Why couldn't the person behind the counter change the name on the babies ticket?

Shorty Dawkins

How does a name get on the list?  If say every name of every congressman were on the no-fly list, I suspect change would be rapid.

My brother in law is on the list.
He just got a new job that requires him to travel 2x per month.  He is rapidly thinking that maybe I have been right these past few years. ;D

Obviously a very dangerous person.  Good thing they stepped in to make everyone safer.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051221/ap_on_re_us/pastor_s_wife_disturbance
Wife of Joel Osteen Asked to Leave Plane

By PAM EASTON, Associated Press Writer 1 hour, 21 minutes ago

HOUSTON - The wife of the pastor of the nation's largest church was asked to leave a plane after she failed to comply with a flight attendant's instructions, the
FBI said Tuesday.


Houston Lakewood Church pastor Joel Osteen, his wife, Victoria, and their two children boarded a Continental Airlines flight from Houston to Vail, Colo., Monday. The plane's door had been closed when Victoria Osteen and a flight attendant had a disagreement.

"She failed to comply with the flight attendant's instructions, and they were asked to leave the flight," FBI spokeswoman Luz Garcia said without elaborating on the disagreement.

The FBI reviewed a report from Continental after the incident, Garcia said. No charges will be filed, she said.

The flight was delayed more than an hour while the Osteens' luggage was retrieved, Garcia said. The family took another flight to Colorado, where church spokesman Don Iloff said they were skiing Tuesday.

Iloff called the disagreement with the flight attendant "minor" but would not say what happened.

"In semantics, they might have been asked to be removed," he said. "Really, it was more of a mutual thing."

Continental spokeswoman Julie King would not discuss the disagreement but said in a statement that the situation was resolved.

Osteen's sermons are broadcast across the country and his book "Your Best Life Now" has become a best seller. His church has more than 30,000 worshippers weekly and meets in a renovated arena where the Houston Rockets once played.

"The FBI reviewed a report from Continental after the incident, Garcia said. No charges will be filed, she said."

Well ..... isn't that a relief. Maybe they will just send them a bill in the mail.

Quote from: russellkanning on December 21, 2005, 01:16 AM NHFT
"The FBI reviewed a report from Continental after the incident, Garcia said. No charges will be filed, she said."

Well ..... isn't that a relief. Maybe they will just send them a bill in the mail.

I suppose TSA is still waiting on a certain check, eh? Have you gotten anything else from them?

nah

You know, we know for a fact that government doesn't care what people think (after all, McCain/Feingold essentially reassured the re-election of every congressman), but remember after 9/11 how the government was so panicked about the travel industry failing? Seems that scared them.... What may be effective would be a national boycott of airlines until the TSA relaxes the stupid rules. Just enough people saying "Firget it, the airlines go for this, they won't get my money." Enough publicity and signers to such a thing could stir the airlines to demand changes themselves, and THAT would likely be listened to by the Feds.....

JM

I'm guessing that this won't happen.  Most flying is unnecccessary, arbitrary, corporate perk, business flying. Taking trips on the stockholder's dime.

Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on December 21, 2005, 10:42 AM NHFT
I'm guessing that this won't happen.? Most flying is unnecccessary, arbitrary, corporate perk, business flying. Taking trips on the stockholder's dime.

Are you sure about this?
I will admit that the last trip I took was unneccessary but the majority of trips I take along with many other business travellers are 'necessary'.
Trust me most people who travel for business would rather not fly at all. 
Trips on the stockholders dime.... those are usually private jets.

It's interesting to speculate how much air travel is really necessary. I fly 10-20 times a month, but usually I'm just going to and from a 2 hour meeting. I think it makes economic sense because there is still a big difference between face-to-face and telephone, or even video teleconference. Also, cell phones, Blackberries and computers allow me to work just about anywhere. Planes are a great place to catch up on reading.

In a free society, I can't tell if people would fly more or less.
Less - fewer compliance-type meetings, faster car, rail, and other options, better virtual technology
More - faster planes, lower prices, more global markets, spread-out families

As far as a perk goes, I've met few corporate employees that truly enjoy flying. Many do like having the frequent flyer miles for vacations, but I know quite a few who take driving vacations, to truly feel that they're away from the office.

If you work for a corporation and fly for them First Class, Business, economy or Baggage your flying on the stockholders dime.
If you sell, lets say, manufacturing machinery, you might have to travel to show how to set it up and run it.
If you're a courier of sensitive stuff, I guess you  have to travel.. If you sell items that are too expensive to ship samples, I guess you have to travel.
I would guess that most business travel could be done away with with video conference calling. If you provide a quality product or service, that people, actually, need and have a good reputation, I question the need for face to face.

Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on December 21, 2005, 03:59 PM NHFT
I question the need for face to face.

I used to teach Computer class for Oracle.  I taught the online versions ( me lecturing on the phone and showing a computer screen) and in person.
In person is probably 100% better in 90% of the cases.  Most people just can't pay attention all day in front of a computer.

Now I help people install software.  I do it over the phone and in person.  Unless the person you are talking to over the phone is truly good it is much better to be in person.

I think that tech is making things better for less travel but there is certainly the need.
Trust me the last place I want to be in an airplane in the middle seat.  ( It is one of the reasons I left a company-- too much travel).


/off soapbox.

PS  My trips usually generated revenue and the ROI was good so the stockholders were usually happy.

My last plane travel was on Pfizer's corporate jet to Morris Plains NJ. No security check there. They have two jets that fly between Groton CT, Morris Plains NJ, and Ann Arbor MI.

Quote from: Dreepa on December 21, 2005, 04:50 PM NHFT

PS? My trips usually generated revenue and the ROI was good so the stockholders were usually happy.

This is the part that counts.

I still wonder how much corporate travel is, just, arbitrary with the costs never compared with what the travel brings in.

Quote from: Lloyd Danforth on December 21, 2005, 07:16 PM NHFT

Quote from: Dreepa on December 21, 2005, 04:50 PM NHFT

PS? My trips usually generated revenue and the ROI was good so the stockholders were usually happy.

This is the part that counts.

I still wonder how much corporate travel is, just, arbitrary with the costs never compared with what the travel brings in.

I agree that some people travel for no reason.  and they are the ones with high travel expenses too.  Big meals, fancy hotels, last minute flights.

I wonder if "shambling" is on their list of suspcious body language?  ;D

http://www.thebostonchannel.com/news/5695739/detail.html?rss=bos&psp=news

TSA Agents Trained To Monitor Passenger's Behavior
Program Rolled Out At Logan International Airport

POSTED: 6:15 pm EST December 28, 2005
UPDATED: 6:31 pm EST December 28, 2005
BOSTON -- Transportation Security Administration officials announced Wednesday that they have trained screeners at Logan International Airport to monitor passengers' body language.

NewsCenter 5's David Boeri reported that federal security agents will engage passengers in conversation in order to detect clues. Logan Airport was a major testing ground for the idea, which will be expanded nationwide.

The idea is to use airport screeners for more than checking carry-ons, pockets, shoes and bodies. After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Logan began training security personnel to observe passengers more closely.

"I believe that there are a number of physical manifestations of fear and stress and deception. We think those are clearly linked to criminal activity and terrorism," TSA Federal Security Director George Naccara said.

A select group of screeners were trained in psychology-based detection techniques that may be exhibited by passengers who warrant closer screening.

"In essence, someone who is acting particularly nervous at a checkpoint -- someone who might be looking for a partner, a team member. Someone who will not look one of our folks directly in the eye," Naccara said.

TSA screeners may ask passengers where they are traveling or for how long their trip will last to try to read the passenger's response.

Authorities said that the method of detection is objective.

"That's why I emphasize, again, that the training, the rigorous training, is so essential," Naccara said.

Behavioral analysis has led to no arrests of terrorists, officials said, and there's no proof of improved transportation security. But officials said they believe the technique is effective.

"We've had a number of cases in which we've identified people with outstanding warrants. We've identified folks involved in drug transactions and illegal amounts of cash being taken out of the country," Naccara said.

That is why they need to fine me a few thousand $ ..... training. Maybe they should ask passengers if they have received training at the NSA or whatever they are called now. Did they ever spend time in intense training with McVeigh or the manchurian candidate?

Tried the shoe swab thing a couple of weeks ago, but my  shoes had metal in em and set off the detector, but on the way home from Florida I wore sneakers, and while everyone else was trudging along in their socks I said I'd take the swab.

I wonder if that program is why the TSA guy was so chatty when I left logan to go to Florida . . . they have a new puffer machine in terminal A, it blasts you from below with air to dislodge any explosive residue that might be clinging to you.  I asked if they picked women out of line wearing skirts for fun . . .

I am sure that they are 'well trained'
What did they get 4 hours?

Maybe next time I will 'act' funny and not answer questions.

I am glad that my next two business trips are driving. ;D

If I have one of these cars
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.01/stanley.html
do I need a drivers license? ;)

Quote from: russellkanning on December 29, 2005, 11:14 AM NHFT
If I have one of these cars
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/14.01/stanley.html
do I need a drivers license? ;)

Would you really want a vehicle that shies like a horse?

Amtrak Antics

by Becky Akers

I'm pleased to report that I have safely returned from a trip on Amtrak.

I had my doubts. After all, with the Transportation Security Administration's (TSA) No-Fly list kicking an estimated 80,000?100,000 terrorists off American aviation, those folks have to get where they're going somehow. They could drive, of course, but there's a limit to how much carnage one can wreak with a car, even an SUV. And wreaking carnage is what terrorists are dying to do, right? So they're probably opting for trains and busses. Figure half are enduring Greyhound, while the other 40,000?50,000 are hopping Amtrak. Something like 265 trains run daily nationwide. That works out to about 150 terrorists per train, sprinkled among 300 passengers on average. Yep: odds are 50-50 the guy in the next seat wants to kill you.

OK, my figures may be a tad high. The No-Fly List includes many terrorists who won't be riding the rails any time soon. Edward ("Little Eddie") Allen is a case in point. His mother doesn't allow the 4-year-old to leave the house without her, so this terrifying tot probably won't threaten American transportation for a few years yet. And Senator Ted Kennedy, while no stranger to murder and mayhem, is also unlikely to forsake his limo for the pleasures of Amtrak. Ditto for Representative John Lewis.

So let's halve the half of the No-Fly List riding Amtrak. That still leaves 75 terrorists per train. Pretty scary, if you ask me. Which is why I wrote my will a week before my trip and wore clean socks the day of, just in case.

But at least on Amtrak, we can arm ourselves against Eddie and Teddie. The TSA's too busy keeping the friendly skies very, very friendly to bother feeling up Amtrak's passengers. This allows the savvy Amtracker to provide for self-defense. We can carry on board all those lethal items you frequent fliers have to toss in the TSA's bins. Cigarette lighters, knitting needles, pocketknives ? amazingly, no one at Amtrak seems interested in swiping any of these despite their prominence in skyjackings and crime sprees across the country. You don't even have to conceal that you're carrying them, so far as I know. I haven't tried flicking a Bic at a conductor, but I did see several women openly knitting, needles flashing like rapiers. No doubt they're on the No-Fly list, and no wonder, either, deft as they are with those weapons.

Even more amazingly, these armed passengers haven't yet slaughtered one another with their lighters and pocketknives nor hijacked any trains. All Amtrak's rolling stock has so far arrived at its destination ? albeit a day or two late ? without incident. Who says miracles don't happen?

I neither smoke nor knit, and the only pocketknife I own is so dull it wouldn't hurt a baby though it sends grown TSA agents into paroxysms. So my weapon of choice on Amtrak is fingernail scissors. Given the zeal with which airport screeners were ferreting these tiny shears out of cosmetics cases and shaving kits, they must be the most murderous armament since the atom bomb. Though I admit I can't see how. The half-inch blades on my pair won't even cut through those little plastic thingies on new clothes, so how do you kill someone with them? Besides, if nail scissors are so deadly, why aren't mass murderers and our troops in Iraq wielding them? Heck, cops wouldn't need to shoot drug dealers: they could just manicure 'em to death.

But the TSA sees all sorts of things we ordinary folks don't ? why, just last month, two of its air marshals spotted a gun on an American Airlines passenger that no one else did and shot him dead. Talk about visionary! So who am I to argue if these geniuses consider fingernail scissors Weapons of Mass Destruction? Anyway, I kept a tight grip on my pair and an eye out for suspicious behavior when I arrived at the Amtrak station. Easy enough since Amtrak thoughtfully plasters signs everywhere reminding us to rat out our fellow citizens. Try as I might, though, I spied no terrorists. All I saw were cranky kids, stressed parents, and old folks exhausted after waiting 5 hours for the train. Funny how the fascist Mussolini got the train thing down cold, but the fascist Feds can't.

Though they certainly have a sense of humor: Amtrak's "Silver Meteor" finally chugged into the station 6 hours late, and we clambered aboard. "Dining car's that way," the conductor announced, and off I went, still on the lookout for suspicious behavior.

I found plenty of it. There were real butter knives on the tables! With metal blades! Good gracious, a terrorist could butter his dinner roll with one of those! I don't think I'm being alarmist here: given that the TSA's banned metal implements from flights and even airports, shouldn't Amtrak force terrorists to spread their butter with their thumbs, too?

I hesitated at the entrance to the dining car, scissors clutched in my fist. Dare I dine amidst such danger? Chances were good that at least a couple of the other eight or ten diners already chowing down were members of Al Qaeda. Sure, they looked like ordinary grandparents in bifocals and polyester pants, but they weren't fooling me. One of them could leap to his feet at any moment, brandishing his deadly butter knife. I'd be forced to produce my scissors...but alas, doesn't Knife beat Scissors? Or am I thinking of Rock and Paper?

Thank Heaven, I survived this brush with death. Our train rocked peacefully onward, despite knives and knitting needles, until I reached my destination. Unfortunately, the 75 terrorists did, too. That means they are once again on the loose out there, looking for ways to bring down the American way of life. So stay strong, stay vigilant, and keep your fingernail scissors at the ready.

January 19, 2006

Becky Akers [send her mail] writes primarily about the American Revolution.

Questioning Qantas

by Becky Akers
 

Undependable though Leviathan may be when delivering the mail or defending skyscrapers from terrorist attacks, it never fails to yield a good laugh. The latest in a ludicrously long line comes from those bumbling buffoons at the Transportation Security Administration (TSA).

Margaret Jackson is the blond, bespectacled, fiftyish chairman of Qantas Airlines. She seems as Australian as kangaroos and koalas: cheerful, plucky, and no-nonsense. Only someone completely bonkers could suspect her of being an Islamic terrorist ? la the 9/11 hijackers.

Which means, of course, that the TSA did. A screener named Bill rifled Maggie's briefcase last year at Los Angeles International Airport. In it he found the sorts of papers you might expect an airline's CEO to carry, specifically, cross-sections and diagrams of an aircraft.

Well. The nitwits who strive to protect us from deadly nail clippers and grandmothers in sandals came out swinging. According to Maggie, our man Bill asked her, "'Why have you got all of this?'"

She told him, "'I'm the chairman of an airline. I'm the chairman of Qantas.' And this black guy, who was, like, eight foot tall, said, 'But you're a woman'."

Boy, nothing gets past the TSA these days.

Maggie was then subjected to one of the agency's infamous, warrantless, and unconstitutional pat-downs. After that, the goons interrogated her for an hour. Airline executives have apparently joined four-year-old children and men named David Nelson as the latest menace to American aviation. Fortunately for the TSA, Maggie proved a cooperative victim, willing to help it over the daunting intellectual hurdle of establishing her identity. First, she produced a sheet of Qantas letterhead with her name on it. Next, she sized up the mental midget with whom she was dealing and wrote a note on the letterhead:

"'Dear Bill, this is from the chairman of Qantas, who is a woman'."

A friend once used a similar ploy in his office building. The rent-a-cop in the lobby refused to let him take home a box of files from his office one evening about 8 PM without a signed note so authorizing him. My friend headed back upstairs, found his secretary's stash of letterhead, typed a note, and signed it. This worked the same magic on the rent-a-cop as Maggie's did on Bill. The difference is that the IRS robs us to pay for Buffaloon Bill's idiocy.

As absurd as Buffaloon's reaction to aircraft diagrams has been the reaction to Maggie's story, which she told a few weeks ago at a news conference in Beijing. Maggie was trying to publicize Qantas' introduction of direct flights between there and Sydney; when a Chinese reporter complained about Australia's airport security, Maggie described her experience with the even more insane American version. In other words, she was speaking off the cuff, without malice aforethought. And yet our poor Aussie made the mistake of mentioning Buffaloon's race. Predictably, Tinker-toy thinkers from across the political spectrum have booed and hissed her as a racist.

But Maggie's own reaction to the incident is as absurd as her critics'. What seems to have resonated with her was Buffaloon's incredulity at a woman's running an airline. And, again predictably, that's impressing everyone else, too, from reporters to bloggers. They thrill with righteous horror while denouncing Buffaloon and Maggie respectively as chauvinist and racist troglodytes. No account or commentary I've seen expresses even the slightest outrage at a woman's being detained, groped, and interrogated merely because she bought an airline ticket. Nor is anyone alarmed by the absence of a search warrant. Constitutional questions scarcely make waves in Oprah's America on a good day; when competing with juicy bits of political incorrectness, they sink without a ripple.

Neither Buffaloon's nor Maggie's comments threaten us any more than did the schematics in her briefcase. That doesn't stop the pinchbeck pundits out there from howling, however.

Meanwhile, Leviathan licks its chops and chortles at the serfs' stupidity...

February 1, 2006

Becky Akers [send her mail] writes primarily about the American Revolution.

Well, no surprise here:

Amtrak - Traveling With Amtrak - Tickets, ID, Safety and Security - Passenger Security & ID (http://www.amtrak.com/servlet/ContentServer?pagename=Amtrak/am2Copy/Title_Image_Copy_Page&cid=1080080554204&c=am2Copy&ssid=342)

Passenger Security and Identification

Amtrak has undertaken heightened security measures for the benefit of our customers.

Valid Photo Identification Required

Photo ID Required
Amtrak customers 18 years of age and older must produce valid photo identification when:

• Obtaining, exchanging, and refunding tickets
• Storing baggage at stations
• Checking baggage
• Sending Amtrak Express shipments
• Onboard trains, in response to a request by an Amtrak employee

Please note that unaccompanied children 15 and older must also produce valid photo ID when purchasing tickets.

Random Ticket/ID Checks
Following federal Transportation Security Administration (TSA) guidelines, we regularly conduct random ticket verification checks onboard trains to ensure that passengers are properly ticketed. Please be prepared to show valid photo identification to a member of the onboard crew upon request.

What is a Valid ID?
To be valid, your identification must be current and in-force. The following forms of identification are acceptable for persons 18 and older:

• One piece of photo identification issued by a government authority, or
• Two pieces of identification, at least one of which is a non-photo ID issued by a government authority

Examples of acceptable forms of ID include:

• State or provincial driver's license
• Passport
• Official government-issued identification (federal, state or county government or legitimate foreign government)
• Canadian provincial health card ID card with photo
• Military photo ID
• Student identification (university, college or high school photo ID)
• Job Corps photo ID

Policy Regarding Ticket Purchase

Passengers purchasing tickets from station ticket agents or on board trains from conductors must provide photo identification and be at least 15 years old.

Passengers boarding at any staffed station or station with a Quik-Trak kiosk should purchase tickets prior to boarding the train.

Tickets purchased on board include a service fee built into the fare. This fee cannot be waived.

Baggage Restrictions

For the safety and comfort of our passengers, we strictly enforce the following baggage limits:

• Checked bags: three bags maximum
• Carry-on bags: two bags maximum

We will not accept excess baggage. We appreciate your cooperation in following these guidelines.

If you have any questions regarding baggage, call 1-800-USA-RAIL (1-800-872-7245). Be sure that you understand and are prepared to follow all baggage guidelines before arriving at your departure station.

For more information, please see our baggage guidelines page.

US/Canadian Border Crossing

If your trip involves travel across the US/Canadian border, please review our Border Crossing page for important information.

Now are they going to be like the airport tsa guys and not actually require ID or will this be even stricter?

I guess I don't get what good a picture id does.

'Security' Without Sense
Airport screening may make it seem safer to take to the air, but appearances can be deceiving.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/02/17/AR2006021701737_pf.html
Sunday, February 19, 2006; B08

It has been almost two months since I resigned from the Department of Homeland Security's Transportation Security Administration (TSA). I had served as a security screener at Dulles International Airport for more than three years.

Even now, I can scarcely believe some of the absurdities I experienced as a screener. Not long before I quit, for example, a teenage girl was flying to Australia for a field hockey tournament. She was stopped at my checkpoint and told that she could not carry her stick onto the aircraft.

I believe in prudent security, but the field hockey stick presented no realistic threat to passengers or crew. It was too late for the stick to be checked, so the girl had to send it Federal Express to Australia and hope for the best.

Ironically, less than an hour later, a rather large man with a cane passed through my checkpoint without a problem. The cane had a heavy brass grip, I remember, because I had to hand it back to the man after he passed through the metal detector.

I'm not saying that the TSA should have confiscated the man's cane; it shouldn't have. What I am saying is that the TSA's policies regarding what is acceptable to carry onto an airplane mock security rather than enhance it.

Cigarette lighters were another issue for screeners. Congress passed legislation banning lighters from aircraft last year, but the TSA uses no common sense in applying the policy. It bans all lighters from aircraft -- even if they are inside checked baggage.

I saw World War II veterans returning from anniversary observances in Europe with commemorative lighters -- in unopened, wrapped packages without lighter fluid -- have their lighters taken away. For the record, matches are allowed on aircraft.

In a memorandum that marked the third anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks, the federal security director lauded the screening force at Dulles for intercepting 12.4 million "prohibited items" since the TSA's inception. But how many of those items were field hockey sticks, cigarette lighters and cuticle scissors?

The TSA makes passengers who are carrying clear plastic bottles of drinking water place their bottles on the X-ray belt, even though it is easier to eyeball the bottle than to examine it through the machine. The TSA also has been employing something it calls a "spot team"; teams of uniformed screeners stand idle during busy times at the checkpoint, observing from a distance the same passengers who will pass through the checkpoints and be observed up close by other screeners.

The agency's management, in an effort to stop so many screeners from quitting, has embarked on a campaign called "I am TSA." Management changed the screener's job title from Transportation Security Screener to Transportation Security Officer and plans to distribute "I am TSA" pins to screeners, I mean, officers. This initiative, however, seems unlikely to lower attrition rates.

Visitors to Dulles see posters at the checkpoints with the word "WARNING" in large red letters, followed by the information that "passengers are advised that the secretary of the Department of Homeland Security has determined that Bandara Ngurah Rai International Airport, Denpasar, Bali, Indonesia, and Port au Prince International Airport, Haiti, do not maintain and administer effective aviation security measures." That's good to know, but what about Washington Dulles International Airport?

At Dulles, an entry point to the "sterile" area, the part of the airport supposedly restricted to those who have gone through a security check, is known as the SIDA door (SIDA stands for Security Identification Display Area). Workers with airport badges can pass through this door with knapsacks, book bags, you name it, without going through the TSA checkpoints upstairs. But pilots, flight attendants and TSA employees -- all of whom have passed background checks before being hired -- are not permitted to access the sterile area through the SIDA door. They must go through the same TSA checkpoints used by passengers.

The Department of Homeland Security might want to address an issue such as the SIDA door at Dulles before warning travelers about Bali and Port au Prince.

At the TSA, truth indeed is stranger than fiction.

-- Scott Wallace

one person at a time

The TSA has thought about it and decided to assess me the proposed civil penalty of $2,500.
I am not going to pay it.

 :icon_thumright: Just say no to fascism :thumbsup:

Quote from: russellkanning on February 25, 2006, 08:23 PM NHFT
The TSA has thought about it and decided to assess me the proposed civil penalty of $2,500.
I am not going to pay it.

If you don't pay it, they'll withold it from your income tax refund.  ;D

If you aren't due a refund, they'll garnishee your wages.  ;D ;D

I suspect they have no idea how to deal with someone who lives outside the normal, "approved" way.

Kevin

Yup, that's exactly what they threatened to do.

OK for what it's worth I just got on Free Talk Live and asked their listeners to call Manchester PD at the number above to ask about the Free Speech Zone arrest or complain.  Also told them about Russell's TSA fine and his refusal to pay it.

Don't know if someone already posted this somewhere, but John Gilmore lost his fight over this issue.

-------------------------------------------------------
A federal appeals court has upheld a government regulation that requires passengers to show ID before boarding a commercial airplane. The only problem is, the court refused to reveal exactly what the regulation requires -- or even to allow anyone to see a copy of it.

The case in question was filed by John Gilmore, a longtime libertarian and co-founder of the Electronic Frontier Foundation. Gilmore had declined to show a government-issued identification card or submit to an enhanced search in July 2002 while trying to fly from Oakland to Washington, DC.

At the time, Gilmore was told by an airport security agent that a Transportation Security Administration (TSA) directive required passengers to show identification before boarding an airplane. When he asked to see the directive, Gilmore was told it was transmitted orally, and was not available in writing.

Gilmore filed suit in federal court. He argued that the requirement to show an ID violated the Fourth Amendment's protection against illegal search and infringed on his right to travel freely.

Gilmore's attorneys requested a copy of the TSA directive, but were told by the government that it was "Sensitive Security Information." Gilmore added to his lawsuit the complaint that such a secret regulation was unconstitutionally vague and violated his right to due process.

During the first round of hearings in court, government lawyers "refused to confirm or deny a federal law or regulation requiring IDs at airports even exists," according to the Associated Press. When the lower court ruled against Gilmore, he appealed.

On January 26, the 9th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals rejected Gilmore's arguments. It said the identification policy did not violate the Fourth Amendment because passengers were free to walk away rather than show an ID or be searched. The judges also ruled that all airline passengers are informed about the ID rule, so it does not violate any Constitutional due-process provisions.

Oddly, however, Gilmore still hasn't seen the regulation that inspired him to file the lawsuit. The U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals judges reviewed the government's regulation in private, saying they could not disclose its contents in court for security reasons.

During the appeal court hearings in December, one of Gilmore's attorneys, James Harrison, had noted, "This is America. We do not have secret laws."

Except, apparently, we do. And three judges on the Circuit Court of Appeals think that's perfectly okay.

In a more libertarian America, it's easy to imagine that most commercial airlines *would* require passengers to show ID before boarding -- both as a security measure and to maintain an accurate list of passengers in case of an accident. The airlines wouldn't need to be secretive about such a policy; customers would be notified that identification is required in order to do business with the airline. Potential passengers would be free to accept or reject such a requirement, or shop for an airline with different policies.

But that's not how the Kafkaesque U.S. government works. In today's America, politicians and bureaucrats write regulations that citizens can't see. Government lawyers decline to confirm or deny the existence of such regulations. And judges rule on the constitutionality of such secret regulations -- while refusing to allow the citizens affected by them to read them.

In the long run, doesn't a government that allows secret laws sound a lot more alarming than the possibility that John Gilmore might take a trip without showing an ID card?

Sources:
http://www.theadvocates.org/liberator/vol-11-num-3.html
http://www.insidebayarea.com/oaklandtribune/localnews/ci_3443146
http://news.com.com/Airport+ID+checks+legally+enforced/2100-7348_3-5987820.html   

 >:( "The only problem is, the court refused to reveal exactly what the regulation requires -- or even to allow anyone to see a copy of it."

I guess we expected this. It doesn't work to sue the government.

You can't even blow up one of thier buildings without presidential permission either.

http://worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=49535

"First, Terry Nichols and, to some degree, Timothy McVeigh appear to have had contact with Arab, Muslim, or Middle Eastern terrorist elements prior to and during the implementation of the bomb plot," he wrote. "Second, just as significant, there is evidence of a personal relationship between Timothy McVeigh and Andreas Carl Strassmeier, a German national who was promoting violent insurrection to white supremacists at their nearby stronghold called Elohim City."

Rohrabacher concludes in his memo to Hyde: "(I)t is highly likely that the Arab connection and or the Strassmeier connection played a significant role in the planning and execution of the murderous bombing of the OKC federal building. In both possible scenarios, the official investigation fell short and further investigation has been discouraged ever since."

I would imagine that Gilmore isn't through fighting. He's got both the money and the will to see it through to the end.

This was a 9th Circuit ruling, appropriately known as the "9th Circus". They make all sorts of crazy rulings, and are the most overturned of any court.

Kevin

But seeing it through to the "end" doesn't seem to do anything.

Quote from: KBCraig on April 03, 2006, 01:15 AM NHFT
I would imagine that Gilmore isn't through fighting. He's got both the money and the will to see it through to the end.

This was a 9th Circuit ruling, appropriately known as the "9th Circus". They make all sorts of crazy rulings, and are the most overturned of any court.

OK, here's a good opportunity for me to learn something: what is a "circuit ruling"?  Is that a step in between a state supreme court and the federal supreme court?  Maybe they explained the U.S. judicial system to me at some point in skool, but I have no recollection of such an event taking place.  :P

I am no expert but I found these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Circuit_Court

http://www.uscourts.gov/courtlinks/

Sandy thanks for bringing it up.  I learned lots too.

If this ruling was by a 3 judge panel of the 9th, then Gilmore has two appeals left. One, to the full circuit court of appeals (all the judges participating), and another to the Supreme Court.

If this ruling was by the full court, then he still has an appeal to the Supreme Court.

Gilmore has to decide if he wants to risk a nationwide Supreme Court precedent on the matter of ID, with a court that leans towards "the police can do whatever they want".

Kevin

Yea and like KB said the 9th Circus Court that happens to be in Caleeforneeah has said some of the most outrageous stuff.

This was probably always in the Federal Courts since he was suing Ashcroft then Gonzales .....

    

Airline passengers face lie detector tests

Adrian Blomfield / London Telegraph | April 6 2006

Millions of airline passengers travelling through Russia will soon have to take a lie detector test as part of new security measures.

The technology, to be introduced at Moscow's Domodedovo airport as early as July, is intended to identify terrorists and drug smugglers. If successful, it could revolutionise check-ins.

Passengers will pick up the handset of a "truth verifier" machine while they are asked questions. Apparently the machine, developed by an Israeli company, can even establish whether answers come from the memory or the imagination.

The technology is being used by some insurance companies in Britain to screen telephone claims for fraud.

"We know that this could be uncomfortable for some passengers but it is a necessary step," said Vladimir Kornilov, the IT director for East Line, which operates the airport.

At first, only passengers deemed suspicious by the FSB, the security service that succeeded the KGB, will take the test. But it will eventually encompass all passengers.

"If a person fails, he is accompanied by a guard to a cubicle where he is asked questions in a more intense atmosphere," Mr Kornilov said.

The machine asks four questions. The first is for full identity, while the second, unnerving in its Soviet-style abruptness, demands: "Have you ever lied to the authorities?" It then asks if the passenger is carrying weapons or narcotics.

To cut delays to a minimum, passengers will take the test after putting their shoes and baggage through the X-ray machines and before retrieving them. Officials insist that it will take between 30 seconds and a minute.

Quote from: katdillon on April 10, 2006, 08:48 AM NHFT
Moscow's Domodedovo airport

FYI This is mainly a domestic airport (or former USSR places as well).

Quote from: katdillon on April 10, 2006, 08:48 AM NHFT
   

Airline passengers face lie detector tests
...
Passengers will pick up the handset of a "truth verifier" machine while they are asked questions. Apparently the machine, developed by an Israeli company, can even establish whether answers come from the memory or the imagination.
...

If it works so well why aren't the security conscious Israelis using it?

Airlines Balk at Epidemic Safeguards
Apr 25 5:32 PM US/Eastern
Email this story    

By LESLIE MILLER
Associated Press Writer

WASHINGTON

Concerned about bird flu, federal health officials want airlines to collect personal information about domestic and international passengers to help track a potential epidemic.

Financially strapped airlines say creating such a database would impose staggering new costs.

"What we're asking for is the authority to collect the information in the context of modern travel on airlines," Dr. Marty Cetron, the Center for Disease Control and Prevention's director of global migration and quarantine, said Tuesday in a telephone interview with The Associated Press.

"There's just a number of conditions where acting quickly with electronic access to passenger information is going to make a lot of difference," Cetron said.

The CDC wants to be able to easily find, notify and recommend treatment to airline passengers who have been exposed to bird flu as well as such diseases as plague, dengue fever or SARS _ even if the travelers' symptoms don't appear while they're traveling.

Health officials are especially concerned about a flu pandemic. Though bird flu hasn't yet spread from human to human, they fear it could mutate into a strain that does.

The CDC plan calls for airlines to ask passengers their full name and address, emergency contact numbers and detailed flight information.

Airlines would have to keep the data for 60 days and, if asked, transmit it to the CDC within 12 hours.

The Air Transport Association, which represents major airlines, said the plan "represents an unwarranted and insupportable burden on an industry sector that can ill afford it."

ATA lawyer Katherine Andrus said in an interview that the CDC plan wouldn't work because of cost, technological difficulty and the time needed to fill out the forms.

"We don't think that, as proposed, this is a workable approach," Andrus said.

Airlines worked with the government to locate passengers exposed to SARS, which quickly swept the globe after emerging in rural China in the spring of 2003.

Tracking people in the U.S. who were exposed to SARS turned out to be a challenge. The CDC had to gather passenger names by hand from Customs declarations and flight manifests express-mailed by the airlines.

"More than half the time, using the address or phone we had, we couldn't find the individual," Cetron said.

The new CDC plan, eight years in the making, is an effort to update antiquated rules first written when people traveled internationally by ship, Cetron said. It also creates a system of due process for people who are quarantined and makes clear the procedures and jurisdiction over people carrying contagious, deadly diseases.

The CDC is open to other airline proposals for sharing passenger information because it doesn't want to drive them out of business, Cetron said.

Another government agency, the Transportation Security Administration, has struggled for years to compel airlines to electronically transmit information about airline passengers within the United States so that the government can check their names against watch lists.

Concerns about privacy and cost _ airlines say it is in the billions of dollars _ are among the factors that have stymied the TSA.

On international flights to the U.S., airlines already transmit passenger information to the Homeland Security Department, which then checks it against terrorist watch lists.

Homeland Security has agreed to share that information with the CDC in order to track passengers who've been exposed to communicable diseases.

Civil libertarians say that agreement violates a deal with the European Union that would prevent the Homeland Security Department from sharing passenger information.

Barry Steinhardt, an American Civil Liberties Union attorney, said the U.S. government blithely ignored its agreement with the European Union that it wouldn't share passenger records.

He also doesn't think the CDC plan will work.

"This is probably physically impossible," Steinhardt said.

Cetron said the agreement between CDC and Homeland Security states that the information sharing must conform to the agreement between Homeland Security and the European Union.

from the Sethmeister:

Senator Gatsas, just to provide confirmation of what we've been saying
all along, Jim Harper of the Cato Institute (who came here to NH to
support HB1582, testifying in favor of the bill) has now publically
shown that flying without ID is not only possible, it's actually
faster than _with_ ID.

http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,71115-0.html

Please feel free to share this with your colleagues.  While it might
be too late for this year, rest assured, the fight against REAL ID is
far from over, so we'll remind you of this next year when the spectre
of 'You'll need Passports to Fly' is raised as opposition...

Perhaps, in the interest of our NH citizens moving thru the TSA lines
more rapidly, we should encourage people to 'live free and fly without
ID'  Note that the TSA agent in charge accepted Jim's excuse of "I
mailed my driver's license home"... Perhaps in the future, the reason
"I live in New Hampshire" will also be sufficent to speed thru lines
with a quicker secondary search instead.

I like the
"live free and fly without ID"
and
"I live in NH" answer when asked for ID

Here's someone who really likes the airport.


http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2002/libe155-20020107-03.html
I Just Don't Want to Die Alone

by Joel Simon
joel@kri-us.com

Exclusive to TLE

"Why do you do that? What would you USE it for?"

My fellow cubicle-dweller is an interesting fellow. Former Special Forces grunt, son of a semi-famous actor. He burned out after being seriously injured in the army, and bummed around Asia doing god-knows-what before coming back to America. Then he bootstrapped his way to a fairly good tech writing job at the Silicon Valley branch of a Japanese robotics company. I feel a certain kinship with him. We've both made some serious mistakes for which we're paying some very serious prices. He's single; I'm divorced. He's cynical as hell and so am I. Neither of us has many friends outside work. I like him.

And that's why I told him how I spend most of my weekends. And that's why, when he asked his question, I gave an honest answer. An answer he found disturbing and offensive. I should have just shut up, or lied.

I shoot. A lot. I have, off and on, for decades. When I'm not shooting, or working, I'm cleaning up from shooting or getting ready to shoot. When I'm not practicing with my M1A, I practice with a .45. Sometimes just for variety I practice with a knife. What little money I have left after taxes, bills and child support, I spend on food and books and reloading stuff and surplus rifle ammo. Rarely in that order.

It's not for enjoyment. I tell people (and myself) that I enjoy it all to pieces, but the truth is I don't actually enjoy it that much. I'm hardly Jeff Cooper, but I'm at least good enough with a handgun to give a street mugger reason to regret his career choice. I don't hunt. I'm not planning a life of crime. So why spend so much time on it?

That's the question my friend asked me. It's the question I used to lay awake asking myself night after night, already knowing the answer. Along with, "am I crazy?"

My daughter flew up from LA to visit for a week during the holiday break, and inadvertently reinforced my reason for shooting so much. It was the first time I'd been to an airport since the Sept. 11 hijackings. I'd heard how much worse they'd gotten, but I still wasn't ready for what I found there:

    * After buying an e-ticket online, I was required to present proof of my identity at least three days before the flight or my daughter would not be allowed to board.

    * I was forbidden to enter the short-term parking lot until I consented to have my car searched. I didn't ask whether a cased rifle in the trunk (legal even in California) would cause the searcher to lose sphincter control. I just drove away unsearched and came back later.

    * While standing in the first of several lines in the airport, I noticed:

    * An Immense Machine scanning luggage for contraband, taking up space once used to welcome passengers. I thought the large American flag that covered it was a nice ironic touch.

    * A colorful illustrated sign listing the sorts of things you could be arrested for "smuggling" onto an airplane, such as plastic cutlery, corkscrews, and nail files.

    * A prominent notice that it was a federal offense not to inform the airline of firearms in checked baggage, which would of course be discovered by the Immense Machine. It's not, oddly enough, an offense to HAVE a firearm in checked baggage. But to be legal, the baggage must receive a sticker that says, in effect, "steal this bag."

    * When I arrived to meet my daughter's plane, I was refused permission to go to the gate. No amount of explaining, arguing, or pleading would produce an exception to this rule. This "protective" rule required my barely-teenage daughter to wander alone through a busy airport concourse until she happened to arrive at the closest location I could approach without being shot by national guardsmen.

    * When my daughter and I went to the security checkpoint for her return flight (you're allowed to escort a child to the gate, but not to pick one up there), an unpleasant woman with a heavy accent demanded that we remove our jackets, belts, and wallets and send them through the X-ray machine. Some passengers were required to remove their shoes.

    * Venerable elderly ladies were pulled aside for (random, I think) wand searches. One particular lady - blond, young, heart-breakingly well-built - received particular attention. She was apparently considered too dangerous for a mere wand search and needed to be patted down.

    * After I beeplessly passed through the metal detector, another woman refused to allow me to pass until I removed my hat. She ran her hand through the inside, very thoroughly. It's a rather old hat; I have a rather greasy head. I do hope she enjoyed it.

    * I looked around and noticed the postures of the national guardsmen who surrounded the checkpoint. You know: The ones posted at the airports to protect us from terrorists? They faced inward. Their M-16's, slung at the ready, were pointed at my daughter and me.

What particularly disturbed me about all this was how cheerfully my fellow herd members received it. We seemed to have fallen into a movie about occupied France, and it didn't bother anyone. I wanted to shake people by the shoulders. Either I was crazy, or everyone else in the airport was.

Later that afternoon I went to the range and burned through over 100 rounds of .308. Just gotta get those groups smaller from the prone position.

All of which leads me back to my friend's question, and to the bleak and offensive way I replied to it:

"I only expect to use it once," I told him.

"I fancy myself an honest man. I've never intentionally harmed an innocent soul, and I've never stolen so much as a slice of bread even when I was broke and hungry. I obey every law I can bring myself to, sometimes at the cost of self-contempt. But there are some things I CAN NOT do, and someday those things will be demanded of me. Then I'll be branded a dangerous criminal. And someone will come for me, and I'll resist. Then the shooting will start, and I'll likely be killed. I just don't want to die alone."

"Are you telling me," my friend asked, "That you'd shoot some poor pimple-faced grunt just because he was ordered to be the first one through your door?" I recalled that my friend had earlier said that he was assigned to "counter-terrorism" work in the Special Forces, and that his training had more to do with breaking down doors than storming bunkers. I looked up and met his eyes.

"I have to take the consequences of my choices," I replied, "And he has to take the consequences of his."

I wish I could believe that the original intent of our republic can be restored. I really do. Not long ago I re-read El Neil's and Aaron Zelman's book Hope. I leaned back in my chair and tried to retreat into a fantasy of what it would be like to have someone like Alexander Hope as president, providing a way for us to restore our liberty while punishing those guilty of stealing it from us. I just couldn't do it.

No president like that will arise. Americans won't rise up, either, even when it's too late. In the unlikely event we do organize for revolt, we'll lose. Since I can't imagine living in the future America I envision, I expect to die. And when I die, I don't expect to be surrounded by friends. So enemies will have to do. I just don't want to die alone.

That is so sad.

That article has got to be old right?

I don't think that they are searching cars anymore and I haven't seen lots of National Guard troops in quite some time.

The writer got it wrong about firearms in checked bags: the law and FAA (now TSA) regulations specifically forbid putting any kind of tag or sticker on the outside of a checked bag that will indicate that it contains firearms.

This predates 9/11 and TSA by quite some time. Although at one time years ago, they did slap a big fat sticker on the outside that said "FIREARMS". After they realized that amount to a "steal me!" sign, they reversed course and banned that practice.

Now, you request a form from the counter agent, fill it out, declare that the firearm is unloaded, and put the form on top of the weapon's locked box, inside of your luggage. (If the firearms case is the luggage (like a rifle case), then it goes inside that case.) Then, you get escorted right to the head of the TSA screening line. At that point, they will verify the weapon by x-ray, and may ask you to open the case so that they can visually see that it's packed securely.

Only you may have the key or combination, so TSA locks aren't allowed. Plus, TSA regulations strictly prohibit their employees from handling or even touching a checked firearm.

Maybe Russell should check his pitchfork on his next flight.  ;D

Kevin

Yeah, the article is old.

Quote from: katdillon on July 28, 2006, 04:37 PM NHFT
Here's someone who really likes the airport.


http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2002/libe155-20020107-03.html
I Just Don't Want to Die Alone

by Joel Simon
I obey every law I can bring myself to, sometimes at the cost of self-contempt. But there are some things I CAN NOT do, and someday those things will be demanded of me. Then I'll be branded a dangerous criminal. And someone will come for me, and I'll resist. Then the shooting will start, and I'll likely be killed.

When I'm in a bad mood I feel the same way.
But shooting a few hundred holes in paper targets brightens me right up.

Shoot somes holes in them paper targets for me too, please.  ;D

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=08yvKUW-9Bc&NR

 ;D 8)

Seven Flights Disrupted In One Day ? And a Bonus on Saturday!
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6788

Quote from: Russell Kanning on August 27, 2006, 02:50 AM NHFT
Seven Flights Disrupted In One Day ? And a Bonus on Saturday!
http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=6788

The dynamite story has been all over the scale from various news sources. What was actually found in the bag has been reported as "traces of explosive residue" (completely consistent with the guy's claim to work with explosives in mines), all the way up to "a stick of dynamite, and other bomb parts".

The day before these "security crises", there was another report about air travel. I consider it Yet Another Reason to never travel voluntarily by commercial airliner.

"Passengers trapped on the ground in jet for 7 hours; only allowed two glasses of water; riot police called":
http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/tm_objectid=17624069%26method=full%26siteid=94762%26headline=trapped-on-flight-63--name_page.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=402243&in_page_id=1770

The FSP forums led me to Bureaucrash, where I discovered this beauty about a lost iPod turning into an airline security emergency:

http://bureaucrash.com/blog/matt_stone_and_trey_parker

You have to read the WoW link, but read the canada.com link first.

Kevin

Shakes on a Plane (http://www.zug.com/gab/index.cgi?func=view_thread&thread_id=68619)

I have had it with the airport security checks. They make us remove more and more clothing, while letting us take less and less on board. Soon we'll be shelling out $1000 for the privilege of traveling naked in a three-foot caged pen. We won't be allowed to eat, drink, or pee during the flight. Communication will be prohibited, except for furtive glances with the flight attendants -- who, incidentally, will be robots with tasers.

I don't care about terrorists. You know why? LIFE INVOLVES RISK. The only way of making air travel completely safe is to BAN FLYING. The "zero risk" game is unwinnable, and the only people that lose are us, in the form of our civil liberties. Every time I'm asked to remove another piece of clothing at the airport security check, I go nuts. But quietly, lest they probe my bum-bum.

My question was this: are the security checks really any more effective? To find out, I decided to re-enact the classic scene from the 1984 movie This is Spinal Tap, where bassist Derek Smalls puts a foil-lined cucumber down his pants, which is picked up by the security wand. Only I decided to go one better, by putting a buzzing vibrator down my pants.

I went out and bought a plain Jane vibrator, the kind that everyone in America has next to their bed. In Scandinavia, I'm told, the average household has more exciting vibrators, molded into the shapes of fantastic mythological creatures, in bold hues such as magenta and hot pink. In America, it's always this:

I went into the airport lavatory and quietly stuffed the vibe down my pants, which did not look as obvious as you might think.

I set it humming and calmly approached the security gate.

The first round of security was the woman (always a woman) who checks your boarding pass and ID. She made sure the picture on the ID matched my face, then handed it back. "Enjoy your flight," she said with a smile.

"I am already," I said, smiling back.

Next I went to the belt, where I emptied my pockets, emptied my bag, took off my watch, and took off my shoes. The only thing they didn't ask me to empty was my intestines, but that's next year. Just before I went through the gate, the portly young woman on the other side, who I thought might find the stunt funny, was replaced by a surly old guy who looked like an ex-Marine.

"Oh no," I said to the vibrator.

The guard motioned me through the gate, which beeped alarmingly. He told me to try again. I beeped again. Visually scanning my body, his eyes rested on my crotch. "You are not fully divested, sir!" he barked.

I was thinking of a joke involving stock portfolios, but he quickly shot out, "Male wanding, GATE 1!"

We sat there uncomfortably for a few minutes, waiting for someone to come wand me, perhaps a fairy princess. The ex-Marine stood directly facing me, his eyes nervously darting to my groin. It was nerve-racking, but the vibrator quietly soothed my jangled nerves.

Finally, a tall young man came over and grabbed my things from the belt. "Come with me," he said, leading me to the public area where ethnic people usually get the patdown.

Now, I have to tell you that I am not on any known profiling list. I never get selected for a random search, I never get put through the machine where they blow air on you or insert the tube up your genitals. I am a white, middle-aged family man with a bald spot, and apparently guys that look like me don't blow up planes. We buy them.

Maybe this is why the TSA employee was extremely courteous and polite. "I am going to run this wand over your body, and in some places I will touch you. I will only use the back of my hand. If at any time you feel uncomfortable, you may request a search in a private area." By "private area," I didn't know if he meant a separate room, or my grundle, but I wisely remained quiet.

"Do you have any prosthetic or medical implants or accessories on your body?" he asked.

"I have a medical device."

"Where?"

"In my pants."

"Okay." He looked a bit confused, but ran the wand over my body, front and back, asking me to spread my legs and hold out my arms. Like a gourmet dessert, he saved my chode for last. The wand began to shriek madly.

"Ah..." He seemed unsure what to do about this. "All right, I will search that area manually, again using only the back of my hand."

"Fine." (Free back-of-the-handjob.)

He felt the outline of the marital aid, looking at me strangely. "Is it supposed to be vibrating like that?"

"Yes," I said with authority, as if I was dying and vibrators were my medicine.

"Okay, I'm going to need to give you a private screening."

"Fine," I said, my heart pounding. I hated myself for starting this Web site.

He led me over to a black curtained area where TSA employees apparently took their breaks. Some reading materials and beverages sat next to a small chair.

A large black officer joined us in the room, holding two pairs of tongs. Uh oh, I thought, here's where they ask me to spread my cheeks, and not the good cheeks.

"We need to swab both you and your device," explained the first guy, grabbing one of the tongs, which held a flat cotton disc. "I just need you to show me the edge of the medical device."

"Sure." I rolled over the edge of my pants, so that the end of the vibrator was showing, the part that controls the speed. In the process, the little dial turned up a notch, so that the buzzing was now audible.

He ran one of the cotton swatches over the vibrator, and the other one across my hand. He gave both of them to the big guy, who disappeared. "If these check out, then we'll just mark your ticket and you can be on your way," he said.

You know I was sweating cheeseburgers as I waited for the guy to return. We stood there awkwardly, while my crotch hummed a one-note tune. It was a muffled drone, like someone using a weed wacker in a neighboring township.

"You guys busy today?" I said, trying to be chatty.

"Yes," he said, still remaining absolutely professional.

"So," I responded, but then got distracted. I did, after all, have a vibrator down my pants. "So."

Finally, after several excruciatingly awkward minutes, the black guy showed up again and gave the all-clear sign. "You're free to go," said the TSA employee, leaving me to pack up my things in private. I took the opportunity to snap a few more hurried photos with my cameraphone:

And so I made it onto the plane with a vibrator stuffed down my pants. It's easy to be critical, to argue that terrorists could easily smuggle something inside the vibrator. But what are they going to do, take over the plane through threat of orgasm? "TAKE ME TO SRI LANKA, OR I WILL GIVE THIS FLIGHT ATTENDANT THE ULTIMATE PLEASURE! ALL HAIL ALLAH!"

One thing's for sure: if terrorists are going to start attacking us with vibrators, I won't mind them asking me to remove all my clothes at security. Bring it on, al Queda.

If you enjoyed this stunt, you might also enjoy The Turnpike Prank, where Hargrave tries to get a free ride on the freeway.

John Hargrave, the King of Dot-Comedy, is a performer, speaker, and author of the upcoming bestseller Prank the Monkey. Click here to read past articles >>

 ;D

At least he didn't have a thick accent, and try to quietly whisper that he had a penis pump (http://rds.yahoo.com/S=53720272/K=penis+pump/v=2/SID=e/l=NSR/R=1/;_ylt=A9htfMSbHQxFrm8BThfQtDMD;_ylu=X3oDMTBjMHZkMjZyBHBvcwMxBHNlYwNzcg--/SIG=120sv1e74/EXP=1158508315/*-http%3A//www.kptv.com/news/9847338/detail.html).

So what ever happened to the TSA's double-jeopardy attempts at gestapo tactics against Russell? They never sent any more follow-up letters?

I get bills every once in a while .... we burn them.

Russell:

I found this on YouTube this afternoon.  I couldn't find a link to it anywhere on the boards, but it seems too obvious not to be there.  If you haven't seen yourself sideways before, here ya go:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=29YW8y-ZjMM

Brock

That video is the last few seconds of my hour with the tsa, when we were dropping off Kira one time. This video was taken by the nice family I was talking to when the deputy showed up to hassle me.

ROFL!

5 days until my next flight!

The next sign should say: Tomb Stone Agency

We're taking Kira to the airport again sometime soon.  There should be more fun then.

http://www.ncc-1776.org/tle2006/tle395-20061126-03.html

Russell's airport arrest is given as an example of libertarian civil disobedience :)

 8)

Russell said after the outlaw manicure event that he hoped some day our activism would be so successful and widespread that people would forget the individuals who started it and treat this popular movement as a whole.

His wish seems to have come true. That's how the press connected the outlaw manicure and the unidentified flying objector events with our movement. That's how people are referring to our activities and civil disobedience events.

Leaders no longer exist as individuals in this highly connected world -- they are so well-integrated into successful groups as to be indistinguishable from them.

yea .... that is good. It is great that people are inspired by actual activity .... and they can't remember exacty who did it. :)

I prefer to worship Russell.   :worship:

Careful, Russell. It looks like she's about to ask you to buy her something. *dodges Kat's fist*
;D

If you hit anywhere near target, Mike, I might trouble myself to get mad.   :P

/sends Michael back to target practice.

So Boston Logan airport... not showing ID gets you the 'Full pat down' but does not speed up your progress. Terminal C.
But SFO Terminal 3  not showing ID gets you the 'Full pat down' but you get to jump to the front of the line.  Seriously worth doing even if you 'believe' they need your id.

Things to consider.
Yes I said the FRONT of the line.

Quote from: Dreepa on December 12, 2006, 07:20 PM NHFT
So Boston Logan airport... not showing ID gets you the 'Full pat down' but does not speed up your progress. Terminal C.
But SFO Terminal 3  not showing ID gets you the 'Full pat down' but you get to jump to the front of the line.  Seriously worth doing even if you 'believe' they need your id.

Things to consider.
Yes I said the FRONT of the line.

Told you so. :) We should encourage everyone to forget about registered traveler, and travel without ID. ;D

Quote from: error on December 12, 2006, 07:26 PM NHFT

Quote from: Dreepa on December 12, 2006, 07:20 PM NHFT
So Boston Logan airport... not showing ID gets you the 'Full pat down' but does not speed up your progress. Terminal C.
But SFO Terminal 3  not showing ID gets you the 'Full pat down' but you get to jump to the front of the line.  Seriously worth doing even if you 'believe' they need your id.

Things to consider.
Yes I said the FRONT of the line.

Told you so. :) We should encourage everyone to forget about registered traveler, and travel without ID. ;D

I have felt 'freerer' and always smile when I say.. 'no'. They usually ask me again and then write SSSSSS on my boarding card.
I also got bumped so a free flight for me.

someone recently asked me if I didn't fly anymore ..... and I said of course I do.
When I fly again sometime .... I will enjoy saying no to them and the nice shoe shine. :)

Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 12, 2006, 08:40 PM NHFT
someone recently asked me if I didn't fly anymore ..... and I said of course I do.
When I fly again sometime .... I will enjoy saying no to them and the nice shoe shine. :)

I don't fly anymore, but it's not so much because of the TSA mistreating people at the airport as the fact that every time I walk into an airport, I don't see what most people see. All I see are the security holes.

I was watching "My Name Is Earl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Name_Is_Earl)" the other night, and they had a good TSA scene.

Earl and his not-so-bright younger brother Randy were flying for the first time. They wondered out loud why everyone was taking their shoes off. The traveler in front of Randy told him it was so they could check the shoes for explosives.

"Explosives?!"
" *shrug* ...It happens."

Randy panicked, took his shoes off, and threw them as far as he could (toward the metal detector).

As he was being hustled off by three TSA goons, he yelled, "Hey, Earl! Throw your shoes! You get to go to the front of the line!"

;D

Quote from: KBCraig on December 12, 2006, 09:56 PM NHFT
I was watching "My Name Is Earl (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Name_Is_Earl)" the other night, and they had a good TSA scene.

Earl and his not-so-bright younger brother Randy were flying for the first time. They wondered out loud why everyone was taking their shoes off. The traveler in front of Randy told him it was so they could check the shoes for explosives.

"Explosives?!"
" *shrug* ...It happens."

Randy panicked, took his shoes off, and threw them as far as he could (toward the metal detector).

As he was being hustled off by three TSA goons, he yelled, "Hey, Earl! Throw your shoes! You get to go to the front of the line!"

;D

That was the first thing that I thought when I read of Dreepa's experiences.  I love that show.

Quote from: error on December 12, 2006, 09:02 PM NHFT

Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 12, 2006, 08:40 PM NHFT
someone recently asked me if I didn't fly anymore ..... and I said of course I do.
When I fly again sometime .... I will enjoy saying no to them and the nice shoe shine. :)

I don't fly anymore, but it's not so much because of the TSA mistreating people at the airport as the fact that every time I walk into an airport, I don't see what most people see. All I see are the security holes.

I heard some news recently about something like 4/10 guns that undercover investigators try to bring on still gets on an airplane have you heard anything about this?

It's more like 9 out of 10, consistently.

Quote from: error on December 13, 2006, 09:33 PM NHFT
It's more like 9 out of 10, consistently.

WOW I am suprized that they find 1 out of 10 guns. We need to give them a bonus for doing such a great job.  ;D

Any ideas for what to put on a sign for Russell to hold in the airport tomorrow?

Tomb Stone Agency?

"should muslims have rights?"
"are we free to pray in the airport?"

I will sit for an hour with a sign leaning against my knees again. I will just sit there observing the tsa/hs/cops and answer people's questions. It worked out great last time, because I was very nonthreatening to the average person being abused by the tsa.

Keep the sign ideas coming. The type can be small, since I am close to lots of people.

4th Amendment...
Not just a good idea, it's the law!

Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 16, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
"should muslims have rights?"
"are we free to pray in the airport?"

I will sit for an hour with a sign leaning against my knees again. I will just sit there observing the tsa/hs/cops and answer people's questions. It worked out great last time, because I was very nonthreatening to the average person being abused by the tsa.

Keep the sign ideas coming. The type can be small, since I am close to lots of people.

You could stand by the security exit area with a taxi-driver hat, as though you're waiting for someone, and a sign that says "Big Brother," or perhaps, "Welcome to America: You now have no rights." (or no freedom, privacy, etc.)

I like that one specially considering that they treat anyone comming into the country as a criminal. Fingerprinting, iris scanning and demanding all kinds of other personal data.

Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 16, 2006, 12:11 PM NHFT
You could stand by the security exit area with a taxi-driver hat, as though you're waiting for someone, and a sign that says "Big Brother," or perhaps, "Welcome to America: You now have no rights." (or no freedom, privacy, etc.)

Waiting for 'Big Brother'.

Nice!

I really like that one. I wait in the area where people exit the "secure area".

Quote from: Michael Fisher on December 16, 2006, 12:11 PM NHFT

Quote from: Russell Kanning on December 16, 2006, 07:16 AM NHFT
"should muslims have rights?"
"are we free to pray in the airport?"

I will sit for an hour with a sign leaning against my knees again. I will just sit there observing the tsa/hs/cops and answer people's questions. It worked out great last time, because I was very nonthreatening to the average person being abused by the tsa.

Keep the sign ideas coming. The type can be small, since I am close to lots of people.

You could stand by the security exit area with a taxi-driver hat, as though you're waiting for someone, and a sign that says "Big Brother," or perhaps, "Welcome to America: You now have no rights." (or no freedom, privacy, etc.)

Cool idea, except that Logan has very specific areas where ground transportation picks up, and they'd kick you out faster than you can blink.

You could stand in limo pickup areas without much hassle for quite a while, especially if you wore a black suit and tie!

We're going to Manchester, not Logan.

Fun Fact of the Day: K-Y jelly is permitted into the secure area, exempt from the restrictions on liquids and gels. It's considered a medical aid.

I would consider it something you'd need when you deal with the TSA screeners...

No Logan ..... Logan is bad.

I used to get bills from the tsa in boston ... but they stopped sending them.

Here's Russell waiting for Big Brother to exit the secure area at Manchester Airport.

(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=2532)

What a great picture! How was he received?

It went well. It was very non-threatening for normal folks and some people got a kick out of it.

Next sign:  It's wrong to pepper spray little old men.

Flying down today to Charlotte for the Meineke Car Care Bowl (go BC), getting back the 31st.  Perhaps I'll print out the "Big Brother" sign too.  I'm not a terribly original guy when it comes to protest  :)

Quote from: Kat Kanning on December 18, 2006, 03:25 PM NHFT
Here's Russell waiting for Big Brother to exit the secure area at Manchester Airport.

(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=2532)

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!

Nice job, Russell! :)

WTG russell heh heh  maybe they are starting to get used to people with signs...since they kicked me out but not you.

(http://www.soulawakenings.com/underground/tikiwiki/show_image.php?id=2560)

Here's the sign for today.  Thanks to Lauren for the idea.

Well done. :)

That UK plane being grounded for 7 hours is unbelievable.  At least they gave them 2 glasses of water to calm them down.

The water in the UK has an incredible calming effect!  http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3545684.stm


Nation of 60 million if memory serves me right -- this article says Prozac prescriptions were as high as 24 million as of 2001 (up from 9 million during the previous decade).  I bet it's even higher now.  Probably half the population is drugged up.  And mysteriously enough it's getting in the drinking water!  Imagine that.

Police roadblocks to remove unlicensed drivers challenged
From wire service reports

A controversial police technique to remove unlicensed drivers from the roads is being challenged on civil rights grounds, and another federal court decision is expected soon, it was reported today.

Police across California are using temporary roadblocks to find unlicensed drivers, and impound their cars. But Latino rights groups say that practice is discriminatory and aimed at undocumented workers, who are unable to pay for their cars' steep impound fees.
Tony's on The Pier

Los Angeles and Orange counties have joined several other agencies in supporting a state law that requires cars driven by unlicensed or uninsured motorists to be impounded on the spot, and towed to a storage yard.

Three civil rights law firms have sued several agencies, including the City of Los Angeles, for impounding cars owned by illegal aliens, who are barred by state law from getting drivers licenses. The suit claims that Latinos are being singled out in an unconstitutional, sweeping move that violates constitutional protections against unreasonable police conduct against all persons, not just U.S. citizens.

``We've heard a lot of complaints from the Latino community,'' said Bill Flores, a San Diego County Latino organizer, in an interview with the Oceanside North County Times. He noted that the impound fees of $1,500 must be added to towing and administrative fees that can go above another $400.

The groups argue that the cars should be parked safely and the motorists cited, so the cases can be heard in court. Some licensed drivers have lost their cars when they could not find their insurance documents at the roadblocks, or if they lent the car to an unlicensed driver, and could not afford to get them out of impound.

But the government attorneys argue that state law is aimed at protecting the public by removing the cars driven by unlicensed, uninsured drivers from the streets immediately.

The state law, they said in court documents, is an extension of police powers to keep the roads free of unlicensed and uninsured drivers.

But recent decisions by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals have prompted a statewide association of police chiefs to warn its members that impounding cars merely because the driver is unlicensed is an unconstitutional seizure under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

Quote from: Kat Kanning on July 24, 2007, 08:35 PM NHFT
But recent decisions by the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals have prompted a statewide association of police chiefs to warn its members that impounding cars merely because the driver is unlicensed is an unconstitutional seizure under the Fourth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution.

It's done here all the time.

My friend was cuffed, and they towed the car. But it was not taken and kept, it was towed to home. No jail time...even though they could not find a valid license in the system.

For me, on Friday, they did not tow my truck, but I got a $60 ticket for being uninspected. This was unusual because I'd heard of people being towed before for that and thought it was a given.

I was recently stopped because my vehicle wasn't displaying current registration or inspection tags. Since I am new to NH I wasn't aware of all the NH statutes and was taken surprise because I didn't know that I wasn't all up-to-date.

Anyways, I was presented with a ticket/summons for non-registration but a warning on the non-inspection. I suspect that they didn't tow my vehicle for any number of reasons, not the least of which that I: am white, was driving home from work in Concord, was sporting an "ANTIGOV" license plate, 17 bumber-stickers, one which reads "I Do Not Consent to Being Searched". Or, maybe I just had a lucky day and am only being charged with a $100 fine  :-\

I've entered a plea of not guilty, to buy time if nothing else

Tyrants
Scaring
Americans

or Totally Screwing America / Totally Screwing-up Airtravel

Why  Taking So long Again?

Total
Scam
As far as I'm concerned...

Total
Sleazebags
Abrogating our Rights

D.C.
Hatching
Scare-tactics

Dickheads Having Seizures

Totally
Securing
America

from water bottles and shampoo.

Well shampoo can sting your eyes you know.
Man some people are so ungrateful.

Quote from: Insurgent on July 24, 2007, 09:16 PM NHFTam white, was driving home from work in Concord, was sporting an "ANTIGOV" license plate, 17 bumber-stickers, one which reads "I Do Not Consent to Being Searched". Or, maybe I just had a lucky day and am only being charged with a $100 fine  :-\

I think that lots of bumper stickers help prepare the cops like planned civil disobedience. It help keep you from being hurt so much. It also leads to conversations.

Quote from: Insurgent on July 24, 2007, 09:16 PM NHFT
I was recently stopped because my vehicle wasn't displaying current registration or inspection tags. Since I am new to NH I wasn't aware of all the NH statutes and was taken surprise because I didn't know that I wasn't all up-to-date.

Anyways, I was presented with a ticket/summons for non-registration but a warning on the non-inspection. I suspect that they didn't tow my vehicle for any number of reasons, not the least of which that I: am white, was driving home from work in Concord, was sporting an "ANTIGOV" license plate, 17 bumber-stickers, one which reads "I Do Not Consent to Being Searched". Or, maybe I just had a lucky day and am only being charged with a $100 fine  :-\

I've entered a plea of not guilty, to buy time if nothing else

Something else you might not know is that you could have gotten that ticket in the parking lot of the MVD headquarters in Concord and you would not be able to  go into the building and registered your car.

Quote from: Pat K on July 25, 2007, 01:05 AM NHFT
Well shampoo can sting your eyes you know.
Man some people are so ungrateful.

  :hello:  If it's all about safety how come they don't let you keep your baby shampoo?   :D

I guess we know who flies often and, uses Johnson & Johnson

Quote from: Insurgent on July 24, 2007, 09:16 PM NHFT
17 bumber-stickers

I noticed that they approach the vehicle with caution, likely due to the prominent NRA Life Member sticker displayed on the back! The Audi has the more explicit SAS one as well.

Quote from: Lloyd  Danforth on July 25, 2007, 07:57 AM NHFT
Something else you might not know is that you could have gotten that ticket in the parking lot of the MVD headquarters in Concord and you would not be able to  go into the building and registered your car.

You're right. i was stopped within 500 feet of the autoparts place where I was to get my inspection and there was no pleading with him to let me get over there for one...

Trust
Soviet
Authorities

Quote from: CNHT on July 25, 2007, 11:37 AM NHFT

Quote from: Lloyd  Danforth on July 25, 2007, 07:57 AM NHFT
Something else you might not know is that you could have gotten that ticket in the parking lot of the MVD headquarters in Concord and you would not be able to  go into the building and registered your car.

You're right. i was stopped within 500 feet of the autoparts place where I was to get my inspection and there was no pleading with him to let me get over there for one...

I was talking about registration

Quote from: Lloyd  Danforth on July 25, 2007, 02:55 PM NHFT
I was talking about registration

I understand that. I was just saying that a similar concept applied here. He could have said, Ok, she's right here, I'll let her go do what she has to do...but he didn't.

Quote from: Facilitator on July 25, 2007, 10:36 AM NHFT

Quote from: Pat K on July 25, 2007, 01:05 AM NHFT
Well shampoo can sting your eyes you know.
Man some people are so ungrateful.

  :hello:  If it's all about safety how come they don't let you keep your baby shampoo?   :D

Don't you know that baby shampoo is the most important
ingredient in high explosives.


BABY=Blast
         And
         Bomb
         Yield

I came across this while driving around during porcfest:


[attachment deleted by admin]

Quote from: SamIam on July 25, 2007, 04:29 PM NHFT
I came across this while driving around during porcfest:

Yep and we have another one that is LESGOV too.

How about a NOGOV?

Quote from: KBCraig on July 25, 2007, 07:55 PM NHFT
How about a NOGOV?

Those folks don't buy license plates. ;D

RIGHT TO TRAVEL VS THE POLICE STATES OF AMERICA
By Jack Blood

I often wish that I was born 100 yrs earlier. In fact I have had the nagging feeling that I was birthed into the wrong time channel most of my life. Back in 1999 a disciple of Edgar Cayce wrote a book about reincarnation, in which she contemplates if I was a 19th century French Poet. Possibly Charles Baudelaire. I never took much stock in it and never had the proof I needed to be sold on reincarnation. I shrugged it off. Still I couldn't feel more out of place in the Brave New World of 2007.

Today I tried to catch a flight from Austin TX to Atlanta GA and was denied by a chubby Chinese Delta airlines supervisor (I will call him Harry Fong) because I didnt have a "Government issued ID" . I have flown many times in the past without ID, but never on Delta who for whatever reason have a non negotiable policy on flying without ID. Fong seemed a bit too happy about the outcome, and his eyes lit up a little to much when saying "Government Issued ID."

I assume that since having an ID is a matter of choice and it is technically unconstitutional to force someone to have one, that Delta caved to federal pressure to enforce the rule or policy. Delta has been in bankruptcy for years and counts on Federal subsidiaries (welfare) to stay in business. Years ago I heard that the Rockefeller family owned 60+ % of all airlines. They are the railroads of the modern era. A basic search for stockholders yielded nothing.

There is a legal precedent for this of course in Gilmore v. Ashcroft -- FAA ID Challenge

This case evolved into Gilmore v. Gonzalez with a "No decision" being the outcome. Gilmore contended that there is no law, or rather there is a "secret" law requiring ID to fly on commercial airlines, and that this non law or secret law violated his 4th amendment right to privacy. Because of profiling and data basing I might have argued that this non law violated his 5th amendment right to self incrimination as well.

Here is a section of the suit:

    "...in regards to the right to travel issue which
    counsel argues they should not be liable for, again, this goes
    right back to the secret law issue, as to whether or not they
    have the right to demand id or not. we do not know what that
    law is because it's not been published. the government has
    stated, as we mentioned in our addendum that the airlines are
    not mandated to demand, merely request it."

So it seems that the Non Decision due to jurisdiction is an admission that there is indeed NO LAW requiring us to show ID. So it is a matter of 'policy' constitutional or otherwise for the airlines to 'require' ID. I have learned this because I have successfully traveled on other airlines without ID, as I have successfully navigated TSA without ID, although I did get a virtual anal probe by gleeful TSA agents.

This of course all due to 911.

The fact is, this requirement does NOTHING to stop terrorism! Terrorists are perfectly capable of obtaining fake IDs and would have no problem getting on a plane if they so desired. "Four of the hijackers ... had valid Virginia driver's licenses. . . . They were not American citizens. They didn't even live in Virginia.

Fifteen of the 9/11 hijackers obtained their visas in Saudi Arabia. Michael Springman, the former head of the American visa bureau in Jeddah, has stated that since 1987 the CIA had been illicitly issuing visas to unqualified applicants from the Middle East and bringing them to the US for training in terrorism for the Afghan war in collaboration with Bin Laden (BBC, November 6 2001). It seems this operation continued after the Afghan war for other purposes. It is also reported that five of the hijackers received training at secure US military installations in the 1990s (Newsweek, September 15 2001).

Michael Springman, former head of American Visa Bureau in Jeddah:

    In Saudi Arabia I was repeatedly ordered by high level State Department officials to issue visas to unqualified applicants. Theses were essentially people with no ties either to Saudi Arabia or to their home country. I complained bitterly at the time there, I returned to the US, I complained to the State Department here, to the General Accounting Office, to the Bureau of Diplomatic Security, and to the Inspector Generals Office. I was met with silence.

So what really is behind all of this? CONDITIONING!

The Federal Government wants to identify all Americans at all times. They want to make it such a hassle to move about and conduct business that we will give up and comply to their every wish. Hence the Real ID Act 2008. Hence the use of social security (control) numbers integrated into everything we do now. Hence massive personal data basing which is particularly rabid on travelers. Hence the Registered Travel Program or CAPPS 2. Hence lie detector kiosks at our airports Why are you REALLY traveling today? Do you belong to any terrorists groups? Do you love the constitution? Hence TSA to Screen for Terrorists by Reading Palms. Hence, Jack Kerouac turns in his grave.

Do Illegal Aliens need to show ID to travel by air? That I cannot tell you but my bet is that they either have a Matricula card from their home embassy, or they drive.

I fear that too many of us will give in and those of us who hold out will undergo a zealous raking as the heat continues to be elevated.

It's a beautiful day in Texas, and right about now I should be landing in Atlanta preparing to host a conference with Dr Bob Bowman. I will not be doing that now.

I would like to stage a call to action and will you the reader to protest by Boycotting Delta Air, and any other airline that requires ID. I would like to tell you that if enough of you would stand with me, and get others to stand with you, that we could put an end to this illegal practice before we are all chipped and tracked like dogs. But I know that most of you will not be inconvenienced, nor will you take the required steps to preserve privacy and freedom. Harsh words I know but I have become a realist.

Therefore I will erase my line in the sand. A line I have sacrificed for these past 8 years being battered like a keg cork on Oktoberfest. I give in. I will be getting my ID and will join the cattle careening across the wide open in stuffed aluminum tubes. I will because I cannot live like this anymore, alone, Mr. Gilmore and I.

This is of course a sign of our times, as we know. "everything changed after 911" and this is the price I must pay for not being a 19th century French Poet. My Bad.

Facts about DELTA relevant to my rant:

Delta was one of the airlines targeted in the failed Operation Bojinka plot: the conspirators planned to bomb a Delta MD-11 flying from Seoul to Bangkok via Taipei on January 21, 1995.

Delta is seeking approval for a daily flight from Atlanta to Shanghai starting March 25, 2008

On September 14, 2005, Delta filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection for the first time in its 76-year history. The company cited high labor costs and record-breaking jet fuel prices as factors in its filing. At the time of the filing, Delta had $20.5 billion in debt, $10 billion of which accumulated since January 2001.

Delta and its financial advisor, the Blackstone Group, (The Blackstone Group has deep ties to the Carlyle Group. Deltas previous financial advisor was now defunct Arthur Anderson (Enron)

Prisoners of our passports

ID Card: Password to the Police State
http://www.911blogger.com/node/10502

QuoteTherefore I will erase my line in the sand. A line I have sacrificed for these past 8 years being battered like a keg cork on Oktoberfest. I give in. I will be getting my ID and will join the cattle careening across the wide open in stuffed aluminum tubes. I will because I cannot live like this anymore, alone, Mr. Gilmore and I.

Who the hell is Jack Blood, why does he think he is on the same level as John Gilmore, and why should I give a crap what Jack Blood thinks?

http://trackingtransience.net/

one guys way of letting the FBI always know where he is at :)


Hiding in Plain Sight

Once an FBI suspect, Hasan Elahi now does the FBI a favor by monitoring himself every minute of the day.
By KEVIN SITES, SUN JAN 13, 8:23 PM PST

What would you do if you were suspected of a crime that could send you to jail cell in Guantanamo Bay for untold years?

When it happened to Hasan Elahi, he decided to put his life online, for all to see.


Hasan Elahi uses the Web to make his every move public.

The 35-year-old Rutgers University art professor was born in Bangladesh but raised in America. He was flying back home to the U.S. in 2002 when he was stopped at immigration and led to a detention facility in the Detroit Airport.

Elahi was asked about a storage unit he had once rented in Florida. The FBI had gotten a tip that it had been packed with explosives, and that an Arab man had fled from the area the day after the 9/11 attacks.

The tip ended up being false ("Never mind that I'm not an Arab," Elahi notes), but it took him nine lie-detector tests and six months to clear his name. When the FBI finally told him he was no longer a suspect, he requested a letter from them saying exactly that.

But, he says, the FBI refused: Because he was never officially charged, there was also nothing to officially clear. Instead, the agency gave him a phone number and told him to call if he had any more troubles coming in and out of the country.

Shaken by the experience, Elahi started calling the FBI preemptively, telling them of his travel plans, where he would be going and when he would be flying home. But as time went on, Elahi considered how absurd the process was — and upped the ante. He started sending the FBI email and even uploading time-stamped photos of his movements.

He eventually created a website, trackingtransience.net, in which those photos were automatically posted to a map, creating a visual tracking device of where he was at any time.

Elahi saw the act as protection, protest and art, flooding the web with so much information — photographs of every meal, every airport, and even public urinals that he used — that the very density of it all, while public and available for everyone to see, created a new sense of anonymity. He was hiding in plain sight. And while the photographs give away his location, they never include himself — only his point of view.


A frequent traveler, Elahi even documents every airplane meal he eats. Photo: Hasan Elahi

"You know exactly where I am, but yet, you don't really know where I am," he says, enigmatically. "So it kind of plays with this real beauty of telling you everything and yet telling you nothing."

Years after the detention that prompted his project, Elahi says he will probably continue it indefinitely. He says it has become as natural as breathing for him.

But it doesn't always appeal to those close to him.

"I've had friends who say, "Hey, don't show up at my house." And I have to respect that," Elahi says. "I have to respect their right to privacy. But in general, the people around me, it's become pretty invisible."

Much of the email Elahi gets from the public is supportive, although some worry that he'll give more ideas to "Big Brother."

The point of his project is clear, he says: There is no such thing as privacy in the electronic age.

"I mean, every little thing we're doing is being monitored. Everything that we do is tracked," he says.

Attempts by Yahoo! News to obtain FBI comment were unsuccessful. But with an estimated half a million people on the FBI's terrorist watch list, Elahi says he still has fears about America's post 9/11 posture and hopes his project may highlight the dangers of sacrificing liberty for security.

The body of work he has created has already found a life outside the Web, with 30,000 of his photographs to be featured this month in a video installation at the Sundance Film Festival.

I like his approach.  Everything out in the open. 
When the gov't spies on everyone, it is virtually impossible to hide.  The only practical alternative is to flood them with info. 
In the soviet union, with spies everywhere, same with police, and a culture that was indoctrinated to snitch on any non communistic behavior, it was impossible to hide.  Yet needs still had to be met, so vender's and buyers found ways to exchange.  And open monkey wrenching type defiance became a common thing.  (Happens in schools too.  Schools are the purist form of totalitarianism today). 

I got a new invoice CV2005MHT0628 today from the US DHS/Coast Guard/TSA dated 2/18/08 from the original invoice dated 1/17/06 .... it has interest and penalties now that make the total bill $3204.59

If I don't pay my "bill" it will be forwarded to the US Treasury Department  :hopmad:

This is the original civil penalty they decided on :hammer: for bothering the TSA.

They also are offering to accept the original $2500 if I pay in the next 30 days ... this is a one time offer only  :crazy3:

I hadn't heard from them for a year or so .... I guess they are hoping

Tell `em to "Show Me the Law!"  ;D

Coast Guard?

Quote from: Lloyd  Danforth on March 08, 2008, 05:53 PM NHFT
Coast Guard?

Ja the coast guard is now under the
direction of DHS keeping the father oops I mean homeland  secure.

it was a new one for me .... it seems to be the current collection agency for this month ... maybe the change is why the new bill came out

The Coast Guard is going to sail up the Asheulot and bomb Russell.

The term "blood from a turnip" comes to mind.

Are you calling Russell a turnip??  :P

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:35 PM NHFT
Are you calling Russell a turnip??  :P

Mr. Turnip...  :D

No I would never denigrate Cardinal Kanning.

He may be a bumpkin, but he didn't just fall off the turnip truck.  ^-^

You should see what Cardinal Kanning wears under those robes  :o ;D

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:42 PM NHFT
You should see what Cardinal Kanning wears under those robes  :o ;D

Or doesn't... :o

I think we have to go with Cardinal Canning

Quote from: Facilitator to the Icon on March 08, 2008, 06:47 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:42 PM NHFT
You should see what Cardinal Kanning wears under those robes  :o ;D

Or doesn't... :o

Oh, you've seen.

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:54 PM NHFT

Quote from: Facilitator to the Icon on March 08, 2008, 06:47 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:42 PM NHFT
You should see what Cardinal Kanning wears under those robes  :o ;D

Or doesn't... :o

Oh, you've seen.

You wouldn't believe what goes on at the job site.  :o

We are 10 min. out from the Kanning target.

(http://www3.verticalgateway.com/portals/12/news/2HitronsII.jpg)

Well, I've seen the yellow snow.  And I hear all the stories about prancing in just toolbelts.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 08, 2008, 07:00 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:54 PM NHFT

Quote from: Facilitator to the Icon on March 08, 2008, 06:47 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:42 PM NHFT
You should see what Cardinal Kanning wears under those robes  :o ;D

Or doesn't... :o

Oh, you've seen.

You wouldn't believe what goes on at the job site.  :o

We might
(http://www.roadogz.com/images/stories/stooges.jpg)

Quote from: Pat K on March 08, 2008, 07:24 PM NHFT

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 08, 2008, 07:00 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:54 PM NHFT

Quote from: Facilitator to the Icon on March 08, 2008, 06:47 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:42 PM NHFT
You should see what Cardinal Kanning wears under those robes  :o ;D

Or doesn't... :o

Oh, you've seen.

You wouldn't believe what goes on at the job site.  :o

We might
(http://www.roadogz.com/images/stories/stooges.jpg)

Man that clamp hurt!

you should see what we do with ladders .... buster keaton stuph

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 08, 2008, 07:42 PM NHFT

Quote from: Pat K on March 08, 2008, 07:24 PM NHFT

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on March 08, 2008, 07:00 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:54 PM NHFT

Quote from: Facilitator to the Icon on March 08, 2008, 06:47 PM NHFT

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 08, 2008, 06:42 PM NHFT
You should see what Cardinal Kanning wears under those robes  :o ;D

Or doesn't... :o

Oh, you've seen.

You wouldn't believe what goes on at the job site.  :o

We might
(http://www.roadogz.com/images/stories/stooges.jpg)

Man that clamp hurt!

Worker adjustment tool:  "Get yur head on straight boy!"   ;D

that is why Lloyd likes wood so much ... it gives under the big clamp

Wow, Jesus Johnson is quite the taskmaster  :o

Quote from: Kat Kanning on May 17, 2005, 06:33 AM NHFT
Manchester Airport, Saturday June 11th, noon.  Russell will try and board a plane to Philadelphia to see Independence Hall while carrying only a copy of the Declaration of Independence.....no ID.

That sounds great!!!

Please keep us updated on the progress!!!

We would like to post it on our forum and talk about it on the show!
:-)

Christie

Quote from: truthbrigadeThat sounds great!!!

Please keep us updated on the progress!!!

This happened almost three years ago.

Quote from: Vitruvian on March 10, 2008, 05:54 PM NHFT

Quote from: truthbrigadeThat sounds great!!!

Please keep us updated on the progress!!!

This happened almost three years ago.

LOL

Thank you!  :-)

I guess I missed it...

Better late than never  ;)

The TSA survived the assault.

Maybe Ridley will try again on May 11th. :)

Quote from: Vitruvian on March 10, 2008, 05:54 PM NHFT

Quote from: truthbrigadeThat sounds great!!!

Please keep us updated on the progress!!!

This happened almost three years ago.

Every noobie does it at least once.   :blush:
If you dare, read through all 90 some pages for the progress reports.  Much of the info was as it happened, or soon afterwards. 

I found my passport last night while looking for something else and realized it expires today. Is it easier to renew if you do before it expires? Maybe I should rush over to the post office.

probably

Quote from: dalebert on March 13, 2008, 09:28 AM NHFT
I found my passport last night while looking for something else and realized it expires today. Is it easier to renew if you do before it expires? Maybe I should rush over to the post office.

OK, I called about this. Apparently there's no rush. If you renew it within five years of expiration, it's the same as if you do it while it's still active. After that, I think it's treated like a first time passport application, which is presumably a little more involved, I guess. I will jump through the flaming government hoops tomorrow perhaps.

Aren't the new ones supposed to have RFID chips in them?

Quote from: Kat Kanning on March 13, 2008, 05:59 PM NHFT
Aren't the new ones supposed to have RFID chips in them?

Well yes but if ya act now, you get
your choice of regular chip, barbecue or sour cram and onion.

Leave it to the government to offer 'sour cram'

Quote from: Lloyd  Danforth on March 13, 2008, 06:19 PM NHFT
Leave it to the government to offer 'sour cram'

Damn were is my copy editor when I need her?  ;D

Sour cram
LOL
Oh my, I'm laughing myself silly with that one.

PatK, you may have more quantity humor than Lloyd, but
Lloyd just shot ahead in the humor competition with his quickness of wit.

Quote from: TackleTheWorld on March 13, 2008, 07:22 PM NHFT
Sour cram
LOL
Oh my, I'm laughing myself silly with that one.

PatK, you may have more quantity humor than Lloyd, but
Lloyd just shot ahead in the humor competition with his quickness of wit.

Lloyd is like one of those huge turtles that lies motionless for hours waiting for prey, then snaps faster than the eye can see.  ;)

Quote from: TackleTheWorld on March 13, 2008, 07:22 PM NHFT
Sour cram
LOL
Oh my, I'm laughing myself silly with that one.

PatK, you may have more quantity humor than Lloyd, but
Lloyd just shot ahead in the humor competition with his quickness of wit.

Yep.

Quote from: KBCraig on March 13, 2008, 07:53 PM NHFT

Quote from: TackleTheWorld on March 13, 2008, 07:22 PM NHFT
Sour cram
LOL
Oh my, I'm laughing myself silly with that one.

PatK, you may have more quantity humor than Lloyd, but
Lloyd just shot ahead in the humor competition with his quickness of wit.

Lloyd is like one of those huge turtles that lies motionless for hours waiting for prey, then snaps faster than the eye can see.  ;)

More than you know, here is a pic taken
at the Danforth training acadamy.

(http://www.traveljournals.net/pictures/l/13/139362-inside-some-huge-turtle-shells-at-a-museum-they-died-of-natural-causes-but-boy-were-they-tasty-jk-galapagos-islands-ecuador.jpg)

Quote from: dalebert on March 13, 2008, 05:57 PM NHFTI will jump through the flaming government hoops tomorrow perhaps.

It seems more and more obvious to me ... that they will give you lots of chances .... as long as you jump through that hoop.
They will delay RealID ... just in hopes that we will do what they want .... but they will be disappointed. :)

Gangstas at work.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z7AWw7t5zj0

Brilliant! 

 ;D

A little blast from the past.

http://anarchyinyourhead.com/2007/12/02/treated-like-a-criminal-by-the-tsa/

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2008-08-12-tsa_N.htm

"The Transportation Security Administration has collected records on thousands of passengers who went to airport checkpoints without identification, adding them to a database of people who violated security laws or were questioned for suspicious behavior."

Guy arrested for refusing to show ID to TSA

http://cdc.coop/tsa_arrest

It makes more sense if you start at the bottom of the page.

Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 17, 2009, 06:31 AM NHFT
Guy arrested for refusing to show ID to TSA

http://cdc.coop/tsa_arrest

It makes more sense if you start at the bottom of the page.

Just yesterday the TSA's official PR blog cheerily explained (http://www.tsa.gov/blog/2009/11/holiday-travel-refresher-what-if-i-lose.html) how to fly without ID by just answering a few questions.

I went there to post this story in the comments, but someone beat me to it with a different version:

http://philosecurity.org/2009/11/16/flyer-processed-arrested-in-nm-after-declining-to-show-id

Also being discussed here (11 pages so far):

http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/travel-safety-security/1017373-flyer-processed-arrested-nm-after-declining-show-id.html

Oh, that reminds me...there's something disgusting where I work.  There are some shoes that say on the box that they're "TSA Friendly".  I guess that means they don't have metal in them to set off the metal detectors.

Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 17, 2009, 12:58 PM NHFT
Oh, that reminds me...there's something disgusting where I work.  There are some shoes that say on the box that they're "TSA Friendly".  I guess that means they don't have metal in them to set off the metal detectors.

Maybe it means they are shaped for smooth travel
up a TSA ass.

Quote from: Pat K on November 18, 2009, 12:30 AM NHFT
Maybe it means they are shaped for smooth travel
up a TSA ass.

I prefer cleats or steel-toed safety shoes for that.

What, no gerbils?

 He is a War reporter:MICHAEL YON ENCOUNTERS BORDER SECURITY: Posts on Facebook.

    Got arrested at the Seattle airport for refusing to say how much money I make. (The uniformed ones say I was not "arrested", but they definitely handcuffed me.) Their videos and audios should show that I was polite, but simply refused questions that had nothing to do with national security. Port authority police eventually came — they were professionals — and rescued me from the border bullies. . . . When they handcuffed me, I said that no country has ever treated me so badly. Not China. Not Vietnam. Not Afghanistan. Definitely not Singapore or India or Nepal or Germany, not Brunei, not Indonesia, or Malaysia, or Kuwait or Qatar or United Arab Emirates. No county has treated me with the disrespect that can be expected from our border bullies.

so .... do we run from the biggest police state in the world .... or monkeywrench it?

Here is Orson Welles idea on protecting Privacy, the Passport and Personal Rights

http://www.thejanuarist.com/orson-welles-on-privacy-the-passport-and-personal-rights/ (http://www.thejanuarist.com/orson-welles-on-privacy-the-passport-and-personal-rights/)

QuoteI'd like it very much if somebody would make a great big international organization for the protection of the individual. That way, there could be offices at every frontier. And whenever we're presented with something unpleasant, that we don't want to fill one of these idiotic questionnaires, we could say "Oh no, I'm sorry, it's against the rules of our organization to fill out that questionnaire." And they'd say "Ah, but it's the regulations," and we'd say, "Very well, see our lawyer," because if there were enough of us, our dues would pay for the best lawyers in all the countries of the world. And we could bring to court these invasions of our privacy, and test them under law. It would nice to have that sort of organization, be nice to have that sort of card. I see the card as fitting into the passport, a little larger than the passport, with a border around it, in bright colors, so that it would catch the eye of the police. And they'd know who they were dealing with ... The card itself should look rather like a union card, I should think, a card of an automobile club. And since its purpose is to impress and control officialdom, well, obviously, it should be as official looking as possible. With a lot of seals and things like that on it. And it might read something as follows:

This is to certify that the bearer is a member of the human race. All relevant information is to be found in his passport. And except when there is good reason for suspecting him of some crime, he will refuse to submit to police interrogation, on the grounds that any such interrogation is an intolerable nuisance. And life being as short as it is, a waste of time. Any infringement on his privacy, or interference with his liberty, any assault, however petty, against his dignity as a human being, will be rigorously prosecuted by the undersigned ...

(http://politicalgraffiti.com/nhfree/images/Resistance-in-Futile.jpg)

Frequent Flier Cancer Project  :P

Quote from: Jim Johnson on January 11, 2010, 04:31 PM NHFT
Frequent Flier Cancer Project  :P

Don't worry, the treatment will be free.

Quote from: Tom Sawyer on January 11, 2010, 02:45 PM NHFT
(http://politicalgraffiti.com/nhfree/images/Resistance-in-Futile.jpg)

Kat is thinking we should hold signs like these outside the goverment airport in Manchestah soon
any good ideas?

i need to do an email interview of the airport guy

Here's what we're thinking so far:

Flash the TSA Event
We show up at the airport in just trench coats/boots & hold signs against the naked body scanners.  This would be in Manch. airport, outside the screening areas where people wait to retrieve their loved ones.

I can see wearing the sandwich board signs saying
"you asked to see everything"

or something similar

Yeah, you could wear just the sandwich board  :D

Or perhaps words on the sign to the effect of: "Are you safer now?"

Quote from: Ogre on January 12, 2010, 08:15 AM NHFT
Or perhaps words on the sign to the effect of: "Are you safer now?"

That's a good one :)

Russell was suggesting a "barrel man" outfit, also.

New TSA check-in procedure.

"The next bomber is going to stick explosive up his butt."
"Are you prepared for the TSA response?"

There was a "fleshmob" protest in Germany.

http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/german-fleshmob (http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2010/01/german-fleshmob)

cool

Chilly, even.

Well done, Pirate party!  :icon_pirat:

(http://www.tsa.gov/blog/uploaded_images/untitled-717391.JPG)
they happily state that currently 98% of people prefer these machines to a full body patdown
i don't think people love the machines .... they just hate to be handled

(http://www.tsa.gov/blog/uploaded_images/tech_mwave-774471.jpg)

Oh fine... I see I named it Back Scatter when it is millimeter wave...  :blush:  ;D

Becky wants to be the agent that views George Clooney's "kiwis".  ;D

Presto-chango...
(http://politicalgraffiti.com/nhfree/images/Resistance-in-Futile.jpg)

Well now even the Germans think it is going to far......................

Meet Mikey, 8: U.S. Has Him on Watch List

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/nyregion/14watchlist.html?hp (http://www.nytimes.com/2010/01/14/nyregion/14watchlist.html?hp)

I like that another guy in the story, he just changed his name... problems solved.

Quote from: Pat K on January 14, 2010, 12:22 AM NHFT
Well now even the Germans think it is going to far......................

just what i was thinking

that nytimes article is good

i am trying to figure out an outfit for the airport
maybe we could have a sign or 2 of tom sawyers work

Quote from: Russell Kanningjust what i was thinking

that nytimes article is good

i am trying to figure out an outfit for the airport
maybe we could have a sign or 2 of tom sawyers work

Maybe spelling pervert or something in aluminum foil on an undergarment ?

Wouldn't looking at minors be illegal ?

It'd be child porn.  It's OK when the government does it.

Quote from: Kat Kanning on January 14, 2010, 06:26 PM NHFT
It'd be child porn.  It's OK when the government does it.

Think about the people who sit / sat on kiddie porn committees .... how many licked their lips when they got to view all that vile crap ?

I just hate'em .. I forgave the guy who killed my brother ... I just can't find it in me to forgive these people for the things they demand we do . How did they even get to the point where they are comfortable treating us like cattle.

I want to thank the people who own this forum for letting me hang out here . This forum is better for my blood pressure than anything a doctor can prescribe.

go to your nearest airport with your ideas .... you will feel much better

Quote from: Russell Kanning on January 15, 2010, 06:14 AM NHFT
go to your nearest airport with your ideas .... you will feel much better

  You're right. I think it's time I step up , why should you people in New Hampshire have all the fun and I always have enjoyed saying no to authority figures in as condescending a way as humanly possible.

  I need to talk with my wife about it. She may not want me risking my life by getting  shipped to cook county lock up . Things are a bit different in jail here in Illinois , and please do not think I am making light of the risks  and sacrifices you good people have taken in NH . I just get the impression you didn't have to fight for your virginity in NH lockup. County jail here is like a really violent movie but there is no popcorn.

Quote from: CJS on January 15, 2010, 12:56 PM NHFT
  I need to talk with my wife about it. She may not want me risking my life by getting  shipped to cook county lock up . Things are a bit different in jail here in Illinois , and please do not think I am making light of the risks  and sacrifices you good people have taken in NH . I just get the impression you didn't have to fight for your virginity in NH lockup. County jail here is like a really violent movie but there is no popcorn.

I think you can let the feds know you don't like their actions without automatically going to jail.
You are right. I have not been molested by other prisoners in NH. The guys that want to hurt you work for the government.
So what can you do that will not worry your wife?
My wife is not worried about holding a sign or wearing funny clothing at the airport. They don't throw hari krisnas in jail either

(http://verydemotivational.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/129066155288208821.jpg)

That's right, TSA Asshole, that guy's life isn't bad enough... you got'a check his shoes.

I'll bet if 'Mr TSA Wand Princess' had any human dignity he killed himself later that day.

think of them as really bad shoe-shine boys

Quote from: Pat K on January 24, 2010, 12:02 AM NHFT
(http://verydemotivational.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/12/129066155288208821.jpg)

I'm protecting America.
I'm protecting America.
I'm protecting America.

If the lie is big enough and you say it often enough, eventually you'll start believing it.

Muslim woman refuses body scan at airport
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7048576.ece (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article7048576.ece)

i guess the bigger manchester airport is worse than ours

They even call it a Rape scan!

yea
i guess you can't even choose the patdown there .... they have to see it all
it might be time for the cucumbers in tinfoil, but the tsa says that you have to save the airport "security" humor until after the screening area

We visited MHT today to hold signs.
A good group of freedom activists were there including one of the latest TSA victims .... Meg
I few guys got good photos and video.
WMUR was filming often.
We were there from 12 to 2 and helped relieve some of the guys there all day long.
The parking prices are high now. $2/.5hr
I guess next time I go hassle the feds there I will have to go by bus or we could drive people there from a nearby parking lot.
They gave us paperwork saying we couldn't do what we were doing. It didn't seem to matter though. :)
We each had a few good and bad interactions. Kat and I had our picture taken with a SWAir pilot by his pilot buddy. He then thanked us for what we were doing.
The nh info people said it was quieter than normal. It seemed pretty quiet to me. There were a lot of government employees though. Many suits running around. Airport security and Londonderry cops besides all the TSA people.

Quote from: Kat Kanning on November 17, 2009, 12:58 PM NHFT
Oh, that reminds me...there's something disgusting where I work.  There are some shoes that say on the box that they're "TSA Friendly".  I guess that means they don't have metal in them to set off the metal detectors.

(I haven't been to this thread since Jan. 09.) ...

WOW!

things seem to be getting better
it seems a lot of people are not ok with getting groped

Quote from: Russell Kanning on November 24, 2010, 03:59 PM NHFTThey gave us paperwork saying we couldn't do what we were doing. It didn't seem to matter though. :)
We each had a few good and bad interactions. Kat and I had our picture taken with a SWAir pilot by his pilot buddy. He then thanked us for what we were doing.

Nice.

Quote from: Russell Kanning on November 24, 2010, 03:59 PM NHFTand Londonderry cops besides all the TSA people.

OVERTIME PAY I'm sure. What a huge F...ing racket!
The other MAFIA (the one without government approval and badges) has got to be extremely jealous.

most of us were very friendly and smiling
the cops mostly looked annoyed

Russell's CD going to the airport is why I became involved in this movement...

Recently I dealt with the TSA Security. I experienced the scrutiny of the junior varsity Nazis.

I've recognized the fact that the Drivers License has become an Internal Passport. The Drivers License has little to do with driving and everything to do with keeping track of all the herd. I've stopped participating in these things and wandered off to live free range. Mostly it feels good not to be corralled and controlled. It's not without it's complications.

I had the need to travel for work to the left coast. I knew it would be a little complicated by the fact that the gate keepers would not like my long expired documentation. So with a certain trepidation I left our peaceful sanctuary and headed off to face the blue gloved inspectors of the State.

I had packed my video equipment carefully knowing full well that there was a good chance that my checked baggage would be opened and searched. I needed everything I was bringing with me to complete my job ahead. I was concerned about the risk of losing the opportunity of this project and future work for this client if the blue gloves lost or stole anything out of my equipment cases. I was concerned that the blue gloves could prevent me from making it to the gig.

I arrived 2+ hours early to give myself plenty of time so if they delayed me I would still make my flight.

The check-in process went OK and they didn't notice the date on my license. They had the X-ray machine right beside the airline counter, I was relieved to have the opportunity to see them inspect my baggage. Instead of the snooping happening in the back rooms of the airport. They were curious about all the wires and things the imaging exposed. I explained the contents and the equipment was on it's way.

Now for the fun part, I headed for the security portal. Would they let me through?

to be continued...

I'm starting to get blueballs from waiting for the rest of the story.  I think it was the blue glove reference or maybe it's my tight underwear. 

Quote from: Free libertarian on May 16, 2014, 12:08 PM NHFT
I'm starting to get blueballs from waiting for the rest of the story.  I think it was the blue glove reference or maybe it's my tight underwear.

Not sure that I can help deal with your blue balls situation, but OK I should continue the story ... Do the blue gloves at least give me a reach around?  :P ;D

So having arrived at the teleporter-station airport ridiculously early so the representatives of our Brave New World could have all the time they might need to examine and probe me. I approached the security gate to try and get past the gate keeper.

I had warned Becky that she was not to interact with the epaulette wearing idiots (Lawmakers question TSA $50M uniform contract in light of sequester) (http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/03/29/lawmakers-question-whether-tsa-needs-50m-uniform-contract-in-light-sequester/). Epaulettes, really.  ;D I guess they have to give them something to feel important.  ::)

(http://a57.foxnews.com/global.fncstatic.com/static/managed/img/Politics/0/0/TSA_uniforms.jpg)

So yeah, any of you that know Becky, know she might say any number of things that would upset our sensitive "protectors". I told her if she felt any need to bark at them to walk away to a distant point and just observe. I mean she needed to return to take care of the former Prez and keep our little slice of paradise operating.

With my best "I can do this" attitude I approached the gate keeper. He asked for my papers. I produced the former "drivers license". Almost, but no "hey your license is expired." I didn't miss a beat and whipped out my long expired Passport, which used to be perfectly good ID even expired. "This is expired too!" I instantly produced a current Credit Card "I have a credit card." with my best relaxed "this should do it smile". He looked a little confused, then said "OK" and let me pass. I might just make the flight after all.  :D

Next stop is removing shoes, belt and emptying pockets to run through the X-ray machine. (Dang I hope that this does't damage the video camera and 500 dollars worth of SD memory cards.)

Kind of felt like I was stepping into the Star Trek teleported as I entered the naked scanner. Turn right, put your feet on the yellow foot prints... kind of had me flashing back to the rough predawn experience when I was screamed at to "get the fuck of the bus and stand on the yellow foot prints" at Parris Island. Hands above the head, I assumed the position, the scanner whirled around me. "Step out. How are you feeling today?" asked another blue man. I wanted to say "A little less free." But knowing they had the power to make me miss the important opportunity that was at the other end of my journey, I said nothing at all. (It sucks to be under their thumb)

to be continued....

Alien abductions never go the way you hope they do, so I'm eager to hear the rest of the story.  I can't wait for the part where one of them has a moment of confusion and says, "thank you for shopping at walmart".  Oh, I spoiled it , didn't I?

Remember they can't have your dignity unless you give it to them, but they do have probes!

Quote from: Free libertarian on May 19, 2014, 06:58 AM NHFT
Alien abductions never go the way you hope they do, so I'm eager to hear the rest of the story.  I can't wait for the part where one of them has a moment of confusion and says, "thank you for shopping at walmart".  Oh, I spoiled it , didn't I?

Remember they can't have your dignity unless you give it to them, but they do have probes!

Aliens and goobermint bureaucrats sure do love their probes.  Hmmm, maybe bureaucrats ARE aliens!  No self respecting human would want to probe strangers, even if they were wearing epaulettes.  I sense a Schnergenberger conspiracy.

I sense the fault lies with the epaulette.   There must be a strange force that compels people to probe when;

a) being a space alien

b) wearing an epaulette

I have not seen any epaulette wearing space aliens...yet.

Quote from: Free libertarian on May 19, 2014, 11:01 AM NHFT
I sense the fault lies with the epaulette.   
I have not seen any epaulette wearing space aliens...yet.

You are now... a believer.

Which one is Michael Jackson again?

and think I got on the flight with no ID and it only took 30 minutes of phone calls and no patdown :)

Okay Tom Sawyer you did a good job building suspense.  Keeping us in suspense is cruel, cruel, I say!

he might be getting some intense interrogations right now

Let's hope he doesn't give up the location of the treasure map.  You know, THE treasure.

 ;D 8)

OK, where did I leave off?

So our intrepid traveller, me, made it through the check point and resisted the urge to tell the gatekeepers of the dehumanizing effect their cold administration of these Brave New World procedures has on me...

Made it across the continent, worked hard, played hard and after staying up for most of the final night to make safety copies of video footage, I arranged my ride to the airport ridiculously early.

The last time I passed through Portland, Oregon's airport, pre 911 even, they singled me out for a more thorough examination. I don't know why they are more uptight there than other airports.

The rest of the video crew was with me as we entered the line for the (in)Security Checkpoint. I had a feeling this time it was going to be more complicated, my goal was to make it home with the footage and the equipment intact. I was glad I'd copied all the video files over for one of the other crew as backup in case things got ugly for me.

Seeing the blue uniformed Security Chick, I was resigned to the fact she was a drone that would blindly follow the "rules". Gee, I wonder what higher legal authority their "rules" are created under.... who knows as they say the "rules" are secret.

Everyone else is more than happy to eagerly present their papers to be allowed the privilege of travel. Kind of a disturbing scene, why are others blind to the historical parallels. One of the effects of having taken this divergent course in life, I have witnessed this steady march toward the Police State.

Security Chick, "Your drivers license, is expired more than ten years!"
"Here, is my passport." I said calmly.
More tense this time, "This is expired too!"

Clearly they were on to me... I'm a video producing Jihadest!  ;D

Continuing to remain calm, not wanting to cause a police riot that would involve me being the target, "Well, I'm still me."  :D    Expired passports were considered perfectly acceptable proof of identity.

"You're going to have to stand over here and wait!"

Several minutes later, after much conversation over radios my new TSA agent walked toward me. "So I'm waiting for you." I quipped. No response on his part. OK he is going to try and play the hard ass role.

When he finally decided he would have to talk with me in order for this to work. lol  He began his interrogation. I have to say I wasn't impressed with his attempts to intimidate me. Junior varsity Nazi wanna be. Not wanting to create any addition conversation points for the little blue man, I refrained from such comments as....

'Gee whiz, you are a very scary man.'
'I've been menaced by professional bullies... I'm not impressed.'
'Where were you in '77, I was at Parris Island... oh yeah you weren't even born yet.'   ;D

He kept hammering away at me, "Why is your ID expired!" "Why is your ID expired!" "Why is your ID expired!"

Kind of hard to communicate when you are dealing with a robot whose program is stuck.

I felt myself starting to become angry, I'm thinking, 'Only with your little costume on would you speak to me like this. I'm your mental, chronological, and physical superior."

OK, getting control of my urge to tell this punk what I think of this treatment I said with a sigh "This is what I have." Referring to my "ID".

Well, I guess, he realized he couldn't bait me into a disorderly conduct charge. With anger and frustration "Come with me!"
My "punishment" was being taken to the front of the line to send my stuff through the X-ray machine. Lots of controlling orders, "You can't touch your stuff!" Kind of silly since I've been handling these things during this whole encounter.  ;D

"Step into the scanner!" I assumed the position of a truly free person... Hands over my head for the naked scan.  ;D

Another Security Chick barked "You moved!" Just a smile from me in response. Heavens you'll have to push the button again, you work so hard.  ;D

As I stepped out of the soul stealing scanner, "What's that!" as Security Chick pointed to a rectangular outline. Damn, that thing picked up on a piece of paper in my pocket. "It's my flight itinerary." Remain calm Security Chick, and we'll all get through this just fine.

Next I was handed off to a pleasant blue man who seemed really concerned about the whole 'I have to touch you all over thing.' I repeatedly reassured him that he could touch me however was necessary to make them comfortable about me getting on the plane. I really don't mind the physical security aspect of boarding a plane... the ID checkpoint is another matter all together. The Drivers License is an internal passport. It is unsettling to see how eagerly Americans have gone along with this.

The pleasant blue man asked, "Would you like to do this in private?"

"No, everyone should see this."

Just then the rest of the crew were making it through the line. They looked at me with fear as I stood arms outstretched, feet apart. I kept wanting to tell everyone.... 'Don't worry, relax and we'll all get through this just fine.'

They inspected and swabbed for explosive residue all the interesting bits inside my camera bag. No way was I going to let that bag out of my sight, the equipment is expensive and more importantly the video footage on the memory cards was irreplaceable.

Finally they seemed to realize I was no physical threat to the safety of others around me and they let me through. Reunited with the other crew members we laughed and waited for our planes departures.

to be continued...

Quote from: Free libertarian on May 26, 2014, 06:35 PM NHFT
Let's hope he doesn't give up the location of the treasure map.  You know, THE treasure.

I hope the TSA never figures out he will talk if tickle tortured.

I just kept smiling and said "whatever we have to do and however long it takes" at the Denver airport that time with no ID. It seems to take one of their threats when you are not in a hurry :)

Whew!! No mention of the treasure map yet. we could be safe.  Did you notice how that Tom Sawyer guy is still teasing us though? Maybe he DID tell them and that's why he's delaying the story..."they" could be on their way with shovels right now to the secret location.  Quick, somebody else do something!

I buried my 1965 Ernie Banks baseball card in that treasure vault and if they take THAT...I'm, I'm, I'm g-g-gonna be mad.  !@#$%^&* !!!!!   Yes, THAT will be my line in the sand!  Fuckin' government!

Quote from: Free libertarian on May 28, 2014, 08:00 AM NHFT
Whew!! No mention of the treasure map yet. we could be safe.  Did you notice how that Tom Sawyer guy is still teasing us though? Maybe he DID tell them and that's why he's delaying the story..."they" could be on their way with shovels right now to the secret location.  Quick, somebody else do something!

I buried my 1965 Ernie Banks baseball card in that treasure vault and if they take THAT...I'm, I'm, I'm g-g-gonna be mad.  !@#$%^&* !!!!!   Yes, THAT will be my line in the sand!  Fuckin' government!

Shut up. He's probably got one of those 'annal probe listening things' now.

Quote from: Jim Johnson on May 28, 2014, 02:09 PM NHFT

Quote from: Free libertarian on May 28, 2014, 08:00 AM NHFT
Whew!! No mention of the treasure map yet. we could be safe.  Did you notice how that Tom Sawyer guy is still teasing us though? Maybe he DID tell them and that's why he's delaying the story..."they" could be on their way with shovels right now to the secret location.  Quick, somebody else do something!

I buried my 1965 Ernie Banks baseball card in that treasure vault and if they take THAT...I'm, I'm, I'm g-g-gonna be mad.  !@#$%^&* !!!!!   Yes, THAT will be my line in the sand!  Fuckin' government!

Shut up. He's probably got one of those 'annal probe listening things' now.

What?!?!!   Those bastards are annally probing Tom?  That just chaps my hide.  Dammit, if anybody is going to annally probe Tom, it's going to be me!  Oh crap, wait a minute...that's not quite what I meant to say.  What I meant to say was.. um...well...Fuckin' government!!!  >:D

I hope they're happy, listen'n to his shit all day long.

We are nearing the point where somebody has a social contract to say "Uranus".  I'll just get it over with...Uranus...There, I did it. 

Quote from: Free libertarian on May 29, 2014, 05:47 AM NHFT

We are nearing the point where somebody has a social contract to say "Uranus".  I'll just get it over with...Uranus...There, I did it.

You can't just say Uranus.  The contract implicitly requires that you say something like, "Dude, the Government is listening to Uranus."

(http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/VHMRw4ZlrPY/hqdefault.jpg)

"They have a 'forget ray'.  So, if you don't remember it, it probably happened." - Father Guido

Uranus has rings around it or was that one Pluto....I forget....uh oh.

So I killed time reviewing and logging footage.

Finally it was time to board the plane. As the line started moving toward the gate, the blue glove crew appeared and setup another ID check point at the gang-way to the plane. I must admit that this time it got to me, 'Those bastards are going to make me miss my flight.' I thought. I guess this will be their revenge. I kept checking to see if they were eyeballing me... it didn't seem like they were checking me out. When it was my turn to walk past them I hardened myself for another fucking-with. And it didm't happen, I walked right past on to the plane. Not sure what that was all about, never heard of them doing an ID check at the gang-way.

So eastward we flew. Until we were approaching Chicago and suddenly the plane changed it's heading. Turned out there was violent weather marching across the midwest and we were diverted to Minneapolis..

We sat on the ground for two hours, till well past midnight... Then they dumped us out and we were told the flight was cancelled. Like a bunch of refugees we and several hundred others would wander the airport looking for a place to lie down  and try and sleep. We were told we should go pick up our luggage..

Great, so now they want me to go out of the secure area and then come back in two more times before I can get the hell out of Minneapolis.I'm tired and I don't want to get stuck in Minnesota. I got smart and asked, what happens if I just leave my bags there? "Well they will send them on to your destination." Whew, so that's what I did.

I considered myself lucky to get out the next morning at 7 am on another airline.

I got a nice little note inside my equipment case announcing that the friendly blue gloved people at the TSA had gone through my checked bag.

(http://www.tellme1st.net/rockyview/200505/tsa%20baggage%20search%20notice%20200505.jpg)

Dang, I'm just happy to have made it back to our sanctuary in one piece.

Now don't you feel safer?

On one trip via Southwest, I drew an insanely great boarding position, something like A-10. Woohoo! So I grab my carry-on bag and march up, ready to be one of the first dozen people on the plane.

Nope, TSA set up a secondary inspection point at the top of the ramp, and pulled me over to look through my carry-on, again. Meanwhile, about sixty people loaded ahead of me.  >:(

The very young, polite, and sincere Blue Man sounded almost chipper as he handed back my bag with a smile and a "Thank you!"  I've been told I can look mean, but that was the first time I've ever seen someone visibly recoil in fear just from the look on my face.

Quote from: KBCraig on June 09, 2014, 02:23 PM NHFT
Now don't you feel safer?

On one trip via Southwest, I drew an insanely great boarding position, something like A-10. Woohoo! So I grab my carry-on bag and march up, ready to be one of the first dozen people on the plane.

Nope, TSA set up a secondary inspection point at the top of the ramp, and pulled me over to look through my carry-on, again. Meanwhile, about sixty people loaded ahead of me.  >:(

The very young, polite, and sincere Blue Man sounded almost chipper as he handed back my bag with a smile and a "Thank you!"  I've been told I can look mean, but that was the first time I've ever seen someone visibly recoil in fear just from the look on my face.

I stumbled over that power when I was 19.  ...stupid DMV.

Best load for us to get from SLC to Dallas ....... it says it is TSA equipment :(
..... I guess we will haul the heavy load ..... food. :)