Liberty paid for in blood, a discussion

[mulp]

In part I ask for assistance in identifying who made this point in a recent commentary that I heard on NPR, but it might well have been made elsewhere, and perhaps sometime ago.

The author of the comment, who I forgot, and I think I am correctly paraphrasing him, said

"Liberty is paid for with blood, not in some past, present, or future war, but daily in the way our society operates under our rule of law."

No matter how much you suspect that someone might commit a crime, no matter how right you are, until a person commits an actual crime, they are treated as if they are innocent until they actually commit the crime.  You might believe with good reason that a person will kill another, basing your belief on their buying and carrying a concealed handgun, combined with their protected speech that is clearly extremely opposed to the views or acts of one you believe will be their victim, but that suspicion, or distaste for speech and the underlying views, and even obtaining the means to commit a crime, ie., the mere means, motive, and opportunity are not enough to take their liberty.  You must allow the shedding of blood before you can act to take their liberty.

Liberty requires that innocent blood be shed daily, and in the US it is.

[dysurian]

I'm sorry I can't help identify the originator of your quote from above, but I'm curious as to how liberty in any way is paid for with blood. It sounds quite close to the ol' neo-con reliable, "freedom isn't free."

"Well in fact, yes it is," is what I always say to that one. If freedom has a cost (through war, taxation, intimidation, bullying, force, etc.) then it's not freedom at all, is it? I think the definition of liberty you're working with may have some extra baggage beyond the actual meaning of the word liberty. Either that, or I'm confused about what you're saying in the OP. 

[SethCohn]

This just in... a raid has just occurred at the local NH bloodbank, where local activists attempted to buy blood, in an attempt to replace US Dollars (or FRN, as they call them) with bags of blood.

Type O was worth $10
Type A was worth $15
Type B was worth $20
and the rare AB was worth $25
RH factor negative could as much as double the blood spot price, and make a bigger mess.

The planned Ron Paul Blood Drive has been called off, and the "I gave blood for Ron Paul" stickers are now selling for $50 each.

[Kat Kanning]

Who have you murdered so that you can be free, mulp? 

[dalebert]

Well, other than that disturbing "rule of law" phrase, it sounds like they're just describing the basics behind the NAP, though perhaps taking it too far.

[mulp]

Who have you murdered so that you can be free, mulp? 

You have it backwards.  I must be willing to have my blood spilled so you and I can have our liberty.  You must be willing to have your blood spilled so you and I can have our liberty.

If you are so afraid that you require that all potential threats to you are removed, then you will end up, along with everyone else, without your liberty.

Today the justice department issued a report on the doubling of prohibitions against the "mentally ill" buying guns.

If you value liberty, you will demand that someone who has shown the signs of mental illness, and has shown signs typical of violence, and particularly gun violence, be allowed to purchase all the guns that he wants to, even if he is known to you and you are frightened by your contact with him because of what he says and the behavior that he exhibits.  The mere fact that you have, with good reason, a fear that he will shoot you, in many respects require that you defend his right to carry guns.

At least, if you consider gun possession essential to liberty.

Right?

[grasshopper]

   Those who beat their swords into plows, plow the feilds of those who didn't.  Thomas Jefferson

[Kat Kanning]

Who have you murdered so that you can be free, mulp? 

You have it backwards.  I must be willing to have my blood spilled so you and I can have our liberty.  You must be willing to have your blood spilled so you and I can have our liberty.

No, I mustn't.

If you are so afraid that you require that all potential threats to you are removed, then you will end up, along with everyone else, without your liberty.

I agree with you there.

[John Edward Mercier]

The liberty entails the risk. I remember a Tom Cruise movie (name isn't coming to me) where the police arrested people for crimes they would commit in the future.

[dysurian]

Who have you murdered so that you can be free, mulp? 

You have it backwards.  I must be willing to have my blood spilled so you and I can have our liberty.  You must be willing to have your blood spilled so you and I can have our liberty.

If you are so afraid that you require that all potential threats to you are removed, then you will end up, along with everyone else, without your liberty.

Today the justice department issued a report on the doubling of prohibitions against the "mentally ill" buying guns.

If you value liberty, you will demand that someone who has shown the signs of mental illness, and has shown signs typical of violence, and particularly gun violence, be allowed to purchase all the guns that he wants to, even if he is known to you and you are frightened by your contact with him because of what he says and the behavior that he exhibits.  The mere fact that you have, with good reason, a fear that he will shoot you, in many respects require that you defend his right to carry guns.

At least, if you consider gun possession essential to liberty.

Right?

I'm still a little confused about what you're driving at, Mulp. Are you suggesting we actively arm the schizophrenic, or that we actively fall on swords to prove we're free? I think you can easily allow other people to have the same rights you have without it leading to bloodshed. For instance, I live in a very violent, unfree society right now. That said, I've never so much as been punched in the face. Now I'm sure if people wanted to punch me in the face willy nilly, nothing would really be stopping them. If there was a true desire to punch me in the face in a completely free society, at least some of those people would still be willing to punch me in the face in this un-free society, despite the threat of jail...but still, it hasn't happened.

[buzzard]

Today the justice department issued a report on the doubling of prohibitions against the "mentally ill" buying guns.

I'm sure they'll claim we are all mentally ill.