Libertarian Pacifism

[Kat Kanning]

The only times I've been threatened with violence or actually had violence done on me were by the police.

[Lloyd Danforth]

The cops added violence to one of the situations when the violent, drunken guy who I was trying to keep away from my sister called the cops because I threatened him with a GUN!!  They frisked me on my own front porch.
I'm glad I let the burglar whom I got the drop on, at 2am, in my bedroom, go. Saved me dealing with the cops.

[Russell Kanning]

interesting
the only  time I called 911 was after a guy had tried stealing my car from my driveway ... drew a gun and shot towards me a couple of times before he ran off. The second cop on the scene asked me why I was shooting at a guy who was only stealing my car. I told him if I had the gun, I wouldn't have called them. Luckily they didn't search me, question me, or search my house ... those where the good ol days before 9/11.
I guess my methods have changed.

[Ogre]

One time I was closing up the Quick Stop store at 1am and a group of about 5 or 6 toughs crossed the road and started walking towards me. I didn't let them get close enough to find out their intentions, but when I chambered a round in the pump shotgun from behind the truck seat, they all scattered and I went home.

[jerry]

Hey, pacifism works if you word it properly.

As my friend Jake the Quaker said to the burgler one dark night, "Friend, I would not hurt thee for the world, but I am about to shoot where thou art standing."

[David]

Virtually all the out of the system activism practiced in Keene and elsewhere has been pacifistic in nature.  Yet all of it is self defensive in nature.  Because most here are libertarians, I think many hesitate to use the word pacifist because they associate it with do nothing-ism.  But if it quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, than maybe it is a duck.  
Those that admire the previous out of the system activism that has been previously practiced, essentially admire Libertarian Pacifism.  

We are already doing Libertarian Pacifism, I just put a name on it. 

[David]

Me thinks both Big Mike and Cassidy may not view their own activism as Libertarian Pacifism, but if it 'walks and quacks like a duck', maybe it is. 

Admit it, you have to admire a guy willing to walk into a police station with a pot bud and ask to talk to the police chief.     And after the Keene guys, (yeah, it was mostly men) argued for about 20 pages over the merits of a topless protest, it was Cassidy, from Manchester that finally asserted her equality. 

I am not suggesting that people not defend themselves, but that there is more than just brute force that can be used. 

[dalebert]

I am not suggesting that people not defend themselves, but that there is more than just brute force that can be used. 

QFT

[David]

QTF= Quoted For Truth, I had to look that up.   

[David]

I wrote this in response to a comment on FreeKeene.com today. 
"I believe in the right to stop those actively commiting harm to myself or another.  I do not believe in escalating harm, or escalating conflict unless it is clearly to stop harm.  I also do not believe in revenge.
For example, a man is beat his lady friend.  I think offering her refuge is better than trying to 'teach him a lesson'.  If he tries to get to her in this refuge, it could be my home or a womans shelter, than preventing his entry by body blockade, and forcing him if possible to leave would be appropriate.

I like this approach because it is applicable in small scale approaches, as well as large scale also.

For example, I am disgusted with how governments treat their own citizens.  Rather than trying to go to war, or even go into a country to try to subvert it, offer some kind of refuge open to all on an equal basis.  I am a huge fan of open immigration.  I think it is a tragedy how humans treat other humans on the simple basis of where they were born. "

To that end I am fascinated with the possibility of a Libertarian Pacifist secession.  I know, everyone will say it cannot be done, or if it could it won't work.  But I figure if it doesn't work, than we could always go back to the human default of violence.  After all, it has been the default for 6 thousand years of recorded history.  Of course if the movement is grounded in libertarian philosophy, it will remain something that all here recognize, despite its radical reliance on nonviolent confrontation of govt' interference and tyranny. 

But today is a bit different.  Today we have amazing camera and internet capability (youtube etc.) that could not have been dreamed of 200 years ago.  The camera is so much better of a tool than any gun on a day to day basis, particularly relevant to activism.  I challenge anyone to dispute that.  We have better communication than ever before.  This forum is a fantastic example of that.  These things facilitate the mass movements that will be necessary for successful pushback against the gov't. 

Secession hopes are one of the big reasons I adopted pacifism.  I just cannot see a violent revolution having a prayers chance in this country.  There is a lesson in history that tells me this.  And this is ignoring the pain and suffering those not involved in a violent conflict will experience. 

Assertive Pacifism is
1. Safer for the activist, because it significantly reduce the risk of violent reaction by the gov't. 
2. Is the starting point for a mass movement needed to more effectively resist gov't.  Small groups work, but many large groups work better. 
3. Destroys the legitimacy of gov't, which is actually a crucial step for a violent revolution to be successful as well.
4. Does not create as much of its own opposition that violence inevitably would.

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I agree with the points David and others are making. I disagree with the term "Pacifist" though.

The term brings up two things to me, the unwillingness to use violence, ever. There are instances of violence I find acceptable, such as self-defense and voluntary combat like dueling or mixed martial arts.

The second thing that pacifism brings up is at the root of the word itslef, pacific, meaning tending to avoid or end conflict. This is the most "extreme" form to me, that in addition to avoiding violence itself, avoids any form of aggitation.

I'm not a fan of adopting and misusing terms, especially when referring to myself. I feel I've already wasted enough time with "libertarian" and "anarchist".

[David]

To be honest, I don't like the label pacifist too much, because to a lot of people, it means complete nonresitance to evil.  But I do like the idea of pushing away those who promote violence, and endlessly masterdebate the virtues of their pistols in their glorious revolutions.  Those who view violence as the only solution, or the best solution, hopefully will ignore me and stop trying to convert me to their ideas. 

[EthanLeeVita]

Hmmm...Kevin said what I was trying to much better(regarding pacifism).

[K. Darien Freeheart]

I do like the idea of pushing away those who promote violence

Yeah, for sure.

Kevin said what I was trying to much better

Thank you. 

[Russell Kanning]

I like the pacifist term and it has helped other people to understand me. .... but then maybe the term fits me better