seeking diagnostic advice from auto mechanic

[Mike Barskey]

My car has a 3-month old battery in it. Today, as I shut the car off at my destination after a 15-minute drive, my car went completely dead. When I turned the key back to on, no lights and no sounds and no mechanical motion could be detected. It seemed like a kill-switch was thrown. I could not find any loose connections under the hood, so I examined each fuse one by one (all were fine, and all were seated properly), and then tried the car again and it worked fine. Actually, my clock resets to 12:00 when disconnected form power, and at this point it said 12:14, so it had been working for 14 minutes while I was trying to check the fuses.

What kinds of things might cause such a total failure (presumably an electrical system failure), and why would my car come back to life when all I did was check the fuses?

Thanks for any help you can offer. Let me know if you want more information.

[Free libertarian]

Check the posts on your battery and the inside of the battery connection clamps to be sure they are clean and dry.   If they are corroded a bit of a rub with some abrasive should help.  Even if your connections are tight as they should be, if the clamps aren't clean it might cause a problem.

Your clock likely draws very little power.   If your lights had worked but the starter didn't turn over, I'd have said check your starter connections.     

If your car has an automatic transmission make sure you aren't in drive when trying to start it.

[Mike Barskey]

Thanks for the suggestions.

*Nothing* worked. Not my clock, dash lights, the internal light, headlights, "door open" sounds, or even a hint of action under the hood when I tried to start the car (i.e., it wasn't even trying to turn over the starter motor). Later, everything worked fine.

I will check my battery terminals and clamps for corrosion. Thanks!

[Jim Johnson]

Intermittent failures can be a most frustrating problem to solve.

That your clock 'reset' means that the power was disconnected.

If the problem reoccurs it is important to have another person watching the instruments, with the key turned on, as you wiggle wires.  That way you can know approximately where the fault is.

I have seen faulty battery cables where the break in the cable was in the middle of the cable.

[Kat Kanning]

Ooops.  I forgot to tell you the feds came by and installed that kill switch.

[Jim Johnson]

Ooh... you could be on the oversight comity.

[KBCraig]

Jim and Kat are probably right.... it's the feds!

If the first thing you wiggled under the hood was a battery cable, that probably solved the problem. Even if you don't have visible corrosion (white/green powder around the terminals), it's worth it to take a few minutes and loosen the cables just enough that you can wiggle them, then turn them 45 degrees or more each direction, then tighten them back down. If you see obvious corrosion, make a paste of baking soda and water, remove the cables, then take an old toothbrush and use the paste to thoroughly scrub the terminals and clamps, inside and out. Re-seat the clamps, wiggling them into place (as above), then tighten well.

*note*: "tighten well", when it comes to lead battery clamps, does not mean throwing all your he-manliness behind a cheater bar. Doing so will just break the ears off the clamps, and you'll find yourself looking for a terminal kit (which is much cheaper and easier than, but won't work nearly as well as, a complete cable set). Just tighten using a normal combination or socket wrench with the typical 6-8inch handle, to the point you can't wiggle the clamps on the terminals.

[George Donnelly]

I had a similar problem recently and the connection of some cable to the battery was loose. Tightened it up and all was good.

[Mike Barskey]

While driving, my car simply died. This time, all the lights and windows and electricity worked but the engine stopped running. I had it towed to a nearby auto shop where a mechanic hooked it to a diagnostic computer which told him that my camshaft sensor was bad. The next day, he told me that the timing belt was gone (like it broke and fell off) and so the sensor had nothing to detect and was therefor not bad itself. So far, my estimated expense is ~$570 (including $95 for a 1-mile tow in which I helped by shoveling snow off his tow truck and helping him get my car on it). We'll see on Monday whether he "discovers" more problems I "have to" fix (hell, I'll be lucky if he calls as early as Monday when he said he'd be done fixing it).

Sigh.

[Russell Kanning]

so something happened to the timing belt and that part wasn't obvious? strange

[anon88241661]

My car has a 3-month old battery in it. Today, as I shut the car off at my destination after a 15-minute drive, my car went completely dead. When I turned the key back to on, no lights and no sounds and no mechanical motion could be detected. It seemed like a kill-switch was thrown. I could not find any loose connections under the hood, so I examined each fuse one by one (all were fine, and all were seated properly), and then tried the car again and it worked fine. Actually, my clock resets to 12:00 when disconnected form power, and at this point it said 12:14, so it had been working for 14 minutes while I was trying to check the fuses.

What kinds of things might cause such a total failure (presumably an electrical system failure), and why would my car come back to life when all I did was check the fuses?

Thanks for any help you can offer. Let me know if you want more information.

Bad wire/connection.  You can get a voltmeter from walmart very cheap.  Start at the positive battery terminal and work your way back.  Since everything went dead, it has to be "high up" in the chain.  So, it probably won't take you long to find.  I'd guess it's probably near the fuse box since by checking the fuses, you seemed to have corrected the problem.  Unless you were unplugging/handling lots of connections while looking for a loose one.  If you were checking the fuses inside, I'd start there.  Like wise, if you were checking the fuses under the hood.  But, I'd do that after checking the battery.

If you go to AutoZone or someplace like that, they will usually test your battery and alternator for you.  If your alternator is messed up, that could cause a dead battery no matter how old it is since it wouldn't get recharged.  But, since everything came back on, it's more likely a bad wire/connection. If that's the case, you should be aware it could cause your car to cut out while driving, of course.  If that happens, you should shift into neutral and pull over.  If you have power steering, it likely won't be working during a cut out.  So, you may want to avoid the left lane in high traffic.

These days, the wires are all in bundles.  So, if you can get a good idea of where the problem is, you can just by that specific bundle of wires and probably just plug in two plastic connectors and be done with it.

I'd advise not taking it to a mechanic (do the work yourself) because electrical problems are very time consuming to troubleshoot.  So, you'll probably be looking at like $15 in parts and hundreds in labor.  If you need it you should be able to get an electrical wiring diagram from a "shop manual" for your car.  You can usually get those at AutoZone/Pepboys for like $26.

I really don't think it will be super difficult since everything went out.  If you radio stayed on but your ignition was dead or something like that it could be a PITA.  But, it sounds like it's probably between the battery and the fuse box.

One thing you can also do, is call up the local dealership that sells your brand and ask for parts.  Then tell the desk guy you're not sure which part you need, describe the problem, and see if he has any insight.  Those guys order parts all day every day.  So, they know all the common problems and have seen problems/solutions lots of times.

There's a very small chance it could be your car's computers.  But, if someone tells you that get a second opinion.  Because, those are expensive to replace.

What is the make and model of your car?   Are your battery cables clean (un-corroded - they should be silver/grey in color).  Do you drive it on bumpy dirt roads a lot?  Did you see any visible burn or stretch marks on any of the wires?  Does your car have an alarm installed?  Is your stereo factory or was that installed later?  Ever get a little ("static") shock when you touch your door or frame?  Are there any marks on the ignition that make it look like someone might have tried to steal your car?  Has any other work been done recently on the car before this problem started?

I wouldn't worry too much.  It just sounds like a loose/bad connection between your battery and fuse box.

[anon88241661]

While driving, my car simply died. This time, all the lights and windows and electricity worked but the engine stopped running. I had it towed to a nearby auto shop where a mechanic hooked it to a diagnostic computer which told him that my camshaft sensor was bad. The next day, he told me that the timing belt was gone (like it broke and fell off) and so the sensor had nothing to detect and was therefor not bad itself. So far, my estimated expense is ~$570 (including $95 for a 1-mile tow in which I helped by shoveling snow off his tow truck and helping him get my car on it). We'll see on Monday whether he "discovers" more problems I "have to" fix (hell, I'll be lucky if he calls as early as Monday when he said he'd be done fixing it).

Sigh.

That sucks.  You don't want to try and do a timing belt yourself.  It's a pain and you can cause lots of problems if you get it wrong.  You still have an electrical problem.  I still suggest looking into that yourself.

Maybe it's time for a new car?  I have a Honda Civic w/ 160K on it that has been losing gaskets and needed a new EGR valve but otherwise is working great for me.  I highly recommend Honda (their bikes and their cars).

[John]

You don't want to try and do a timing belt yourself.  It's a pain and you can cause lots of problems if you get it wrong.

Monro Muffler completely destroyed the engine in my last car by getting it wrong.
 
BTW Since I'm on the subject, Monroe Muffler's corporate management jerked me around, and around, and around, and around while I waited, as they played their corporate/leagal/insurance games before finally totaling out my car and paying me for it. They suck.

Sorry for the little rant in the middle of your thread.

[anon88241661]

You don't want to try and do a timing belt yourself.  It's a pain and you can cause lots of problems if you get it wrong.

Monro Muffler completely destroyed the engine in my last car by getting it wrong.
 
BTW Since I'm on the subject, Monroe Muffler's corporate management jerked me around, and around, and around, and around while I waited, as they played their corporate/leagal/insurance games before finally totaling out my car and paying me for it. They suck.

Sorry for the little rant in the middle of your thread.

No worries!  Sorry to hear about your experience w/ Monroe!

I had a buddy in Alaska whom hired a diesel mechanic that didn't know shit, years ago.  The mechanic messed up a timing belt change on some logging HE.  And, my buddy actually had hunks of steel knocked off the cover due to bad piston/valve timing.  It was crazy.

I'm in Salem.  If you need work on your car and you don't want to do it yourself, Husson @ 97 & 28 (Main and Broadway (here in Salem)) is the place to go.  Jeff, the guy that runs it, is super honest.  It's the place I take my car to when I don't want to do something myself (or can't cause I need a lift or whatever). He's the best.

[John]

I was in Salem before moving to Grafton. The Monro Muffler behind the JB's is the one that destroyed my car. I'll be down in Salem again very soon delivering the New Hampshire Free Press.