What happened to America?

[John Edward Mercier]

Insert Quote
Nothing personal, but if you chose not to register for Selective Service... not really much of a problem unless you want federally provided or contracted services.

The card is what makes someone eligible for government benefits.  It also is proof of 14th Amendment citizenship and not State Citizenship.  The reason the government requires the declaration is because upon attaining the age of majority the person has a short period of time to disavow themselves of any adhesions or contracts which they might have entered into by themselves or by their guardians. 

The problem the government has with the whole mess is the concept that Rights are inalienable; that is, they can not be taken from a person without a "knowing and intentional" or "knowing and voluntary" action on the part of the person alienating such Rights.  I don't know anybody who understood that when they applied for and received a SS# they were giving up access to the State and Federal Constitution's Bills of Rights. Which were then replaced with regulated privileges.

The flaws were inherent at the beginning. The US Constitution is a 'social contract'. Meaning its a contract between 50 entities... not individuals.
I would say it failed miserably once Jefferson set the precedent of the Louisiana Purchase. It set the precedent for federal government ownership of property beyond the scope of the US Constitution.

I disagree, It is a a contract between 50 entities, but its Bill of Rights protects the individual State Citizens.

I further disagree,  The Louisiana Purchase expanded Federal territory which was controlled by U.S. Code just like Washington, D.C.   Any State Citizens moving into and residing in this new territory "knowingly, voluntarily, and intentionally" gave up their inalienable Rights for the benefits associated with the move. They lost access to the Bills of Rights.

You can disagree all you like, but no where in the US Constitution did the States give the federal government the power to expand federal territory in this manner. The only possession of federal land is Article 1 Section 8.

'To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;'

And no 'right' is unalienable... people have their life taken from them without voluntary consent everyday.
The words the Founders used are emotionally compelling, but lack the real world action for them to have meaning...
Else the Declaration of Independence would have read 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, unless bonded or born to slavery and without representation unless sufficient of landed property.'

Jefferson's expansion of federal powers... not to mention the First Barbary War were a US Marine Expeditionary Force (neocon?) protected US interests... not defended Sovereign State lands of the Original Thirteen... resulted in the precedents we see today.
The Bill of Rights were amendments to the original Constitution and are no less/more valid than the 14th or even the 16th... nor any of the 27. Had none of them entered into existance the original Constitution would have stood, but at then what would the US look like today?

[JohninRI]

You can disagree all you like, but no where in the US Constitution did the States give the federal government the power to expand federal territory in this manner. The only possession of federal land is Article 1 Section 8.

Article 2. Section 2 "He (the President) shall have power, by and with the advice and consent of the Senate, to make treaties,..."

Black's Law - Treaty - A compact between two or more independent nations with a view to the public welfare."

Article 1. Section 8.  Powers Granted Congress - "To regulate commerce with foreign nations..."  Purchasing land is commerce is it not?

Article I. Section 9 Powers denied Congress - No, I don't see Purchase land belonging to other nations!!

And last but not least!!! 

Article 4. Section 3.  New States - Territory and property. - "New states may be admitted by the congress into the union; but no new state shall be formed or erected within the jurisdiction of any other state; nor any state be formed by the junction of two or more state , or parts of states, without the consent of the legislatures of the states concerned as well as of the congress.... The congress shall have power to dispose of and make all needful rules and regulations respecting the territory or other property belonging to the United States; and nothing in the Constitution shall be construed as to prejudice any claims of the United States, or of any particular state."

Where don't you see that Jefferson had the power to make the Louisiana Purchase?  Where were the new States and federal territories going to come from if not through purchase?  Do you think the Constitution anticipated donation?

I'm sorry, I couldn't resist.

[JohninRI]

The words the Founders used are emotionally compelling, but lack the real world action for them to have meaning...  Else the Declaration of Independence would have read 'We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, unless bonded or born to slavery and without representation unless sufficient of landed property.'

That is another reason I believe in a Creator... They wrote the truth and let it stand ... in the face of their own hypocracy!

[Kat Kanning]

I don't think we ever had control of them.  They've always sought to enslave us.  They just let us believe we had some control for a time.  It is the nature of governments.  They use force.  Those who like to use force are drawn to government.

(Sorry if someone has mentioned this.  I haven't read all the replies to your question.)

[Lloyd Danforth]

I'm not sure what they were thinking in the beginning, but,we all know how it turned out.

[JohninRI]

Monopoly is Business at its end; when all competition has been vanquished.

Slavery is Government at its end; when all Citizens have been conquered.

[John Edward Mercier]

Only Congress can spend taxes, or credit...
And they are limited to the ownership of property as per my post.

[JohninRI]

Only Congress can spend taxes, or credit...
And they are limited to the ownership of property as per my post.

Obviously, Jefferson and I don't interpret the provisions as narrowly as you do.  Your interpretation would be crystal clear if they had specifically denied that power to the Federal Government in Article 1. Section 9. which they had the power to do.

[John Edward Mercier]

This is where the 'Bill of Rights' comes in. It would have been in effect during Jefferson's presidency.
Amendments 9 and 10 to be exact.

Amendment IX
The enumeration in the Constitution, of certain rights, shall not be construed to deny or disparage others retained by the people.
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Amendment X
The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.

[Black Bloke]

Screw the Constitution, damn the Founders and Framers, and F the flag.  I don't care one whit what those dead, hypocritical, elitist men thought, and I won't be gripped by their clammy hands from beyond the grave.  There was never a time in America where "the government was under control" or "the Constitution really worked" or "it was a free country."  Not prior to the current wars and 9/11, not prior to the drug war, not prior to the Great Society, not prior to the New Frontier, not prior to the Cold War, not prior to the New Deals, not prior to the Great Depression, not prior to the Wilson Administration, not prior to the beginning of American imperialism, not prior to the beginning of government schooling, not prior to the Civil War, not prior to the Constitution's ratification, and not prior to the Articles of Confederation.

Freedom is for the here and now.  Freedom is what we will build for the future.  It's not what happened to America that means anything, it's what will happen.

[John Edward Mercier]

What I'm pointing out is what Menno started. The US Constitution and the system it represents, though undoubtly the best we have today... is a 230 year old institution. If it were a business, it would be in bankruptcy... and many of its leadership in prison.

Spending their days trying to get votes for 'perceived' authority... and their nights selling that 'authority' to the highest bidder.

[Black Bloke]

If that ^^^^ was a reply to me, I should point out that the post above, wasn't directed at the post above it.  Just a general sentiment.

[srqrebel]

Freedom is for the here and now.  Freedom is what we will build for the future.  It's not what happened to America that means anything, it's what will happen.

I couldn't agree more.