Immigration

[Rochelle]

It's a visa forum that concentrates on family based immigration. Not libertarian at all. But it's a good resource if you're doing family based immigration.

[Russell Kanning]

Crafty lawyers will take all your money---no solution there.  You may want to buy a bride.

Rochelle's husband didn't "buy" her, and being married hasn't helped with the visa process.

.... and you would still have to bow to the system and pay them fees and fill out paperwork. That is not freedom.

[Russell Kanning]

I would not recommend coming to the US illegally if your end desire is to stay here.

I would recommend moving here "illegally" if you want to live free. You can live free in Canada or here, but as you know you can't bow down to either government and be free.

[SpeedPhreak]

I'm in a similar situation... except I am trying to get out of the US.

Well, do what I did and marry a Finn. You get an automatic right to live in Finland if you're married to a citizen there. All you have to do is go to the police station there, fill out some paperwork and give them a (european) passport sized picture and in you go!
Of course, then you also have to deal with more press censorship (a newspaper refused to publish an ad the finnish piracy organization paid for because it might negatively affect the careers of career politicans) and more government interference in your life, but you won't be in the US.

i've looked into this... a little.  mostly in central/south america & the former "eastern bloc"... only thing is my girl friend might not like the idea   I also have my daughter to think about... if it wasn't for her I would have been gone months ago.

[Rochelle]

Try Estonia! Things are going great there! DOn't know what they're rules on immigration are though.

[Dreepa]

Try Estonia! Things are going great there! DOn't know what they're rules on immigration are though.

Yeah it was booming even 10 years ago....Estonia ROCKS.

[SpeedPhreak]

Estonia is actually on my list... there is $ to be made in a lot of these countries.  I have a few obsticles before I go anywhere (including NH)... 1 is my girlfriend & business partner... she isn't interested in certain countries (serbia, cuba [yes this is a viable option], guatemala, bosnia).  About the only place she has agreed 100% is Spain.  But I don't think Spain agrees w/my ideals & we would just be moving to a spanish speaking nanny state from what I have read so far.  She is also stuck on her family... she doesn't see the big picture.

The next is our business & financial state.  We have money - but it is locked up in RE & equipment.  We could sell & get our money out but it won't be much.  We figure if we build our business, let our current buyers market turn back into a sellers market (when troops return), keep investing, then when it is time to leave we will be sitting on 6 figures in the bank.  Put this money into a CD in panama (vs actively trading it like I originally planned)... & collect 8+% on it.  That will equal a kings income in many countries. 

You can put $ into a panama fund & if you receive $750/month on it & don't have a record you are elidgeable for residency status so long as you keep the $ invested (5yr renewals). 

We could use this money to buy citizenships into places like canada ($120k last I looked), st kitts, & maybe a couple other "front door" economic programs... but then we wouldn't have any $ left to live on & would have to rely solely on wages which could prove difficult.

There are other options we want to explore too... Namely becoming stateless by living on a boat & sailing from port to port... maybe owning condos in a few countries or trading our boat for shore time w/a family that owns a home.  I need to do a lot more research on this subject though.

Approaching a poorer country & purchasing a citizenship (again more research)... for far less than current known programs (it is rumored you can do this with as little as 20k) if we get "extra" money.  This could lead to more citizenships via residency.

Like I said, if it were just me I would have been gone & probably have a 2nd citizenship by now... working on a 3rd.  I see 1 of the most valuable things a person can do is have a Passport portfolio.  If you have USA, Canada, Brazil, EU you can go anywhere in the world visa free & unless you are a "real" criminal can expect to never be extradited to your nanny state (dual criminality).  Actually I would be happy w/the above & no USA (as the only real benefit is visa free travel... but w/canada & brazil that encompasses almost all countries including the EU).

[Russell Kanning]

I guess some churches are going to be aiding and abetting criminals. This guy thinks it is a bad idea.

http://www.townhall.com/Columnists/HarryRJacksonJr/2007/05/14/sanctuary_movement_personal_compassion_vs_national_security

Sanctuary Movement: Personal Compassion VS National Security
By Harry R. Jackson, Jr.
Monday, May 14, 2007
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Last Friday, I was ushered into the Washington studios of the FOX Network to respond to a special segment of the O'Reilly Factor which described a new immigration reform campaign called the "Sanctuary Movement." Based on a movement that challenged United States policy in Central America in the 1980s, several religious congregations in New York and other cities announced a campaign last Wednesday to provide sanctuary to illegal immigrants who face deportation. I stated that I didn't agree with either the biblical or political reasoning behind this movement. The acts of civil disobedience involved in offering sanctuary for illegal aliens seem to have an overt political motivation.

This week, the Senate plans to explore the issue of immigration once again. Although the nation remains divided over this issue, the all-knowing leadership of the Washington elite is pushing to give the resemblance of progress. Both religious and political liberals want to rush the process of arriving at workable solutions to this complex problem. I, however, believe that the nation should slow down and develop the correct approach to this multi-faceted challenge. We need to discuss this more. The average American does not understand the complexity of the immigration process or the implications of major structural change to the way things are currently being done. I am saddened by the pain of deportation. In fact, I have had several members of my local congregation deported during the last decade, yet I maintain that the problems of immigration must be solved with both compassion and wisdom. Both our hearts and our heads must be engaged in fixing this problem


Jose (front, 2nd L), from Mexico, and Juan (front, 4th L), from Guatemala, both illegal immigrants facing deportation, sit with their families inside the Our Lady Queen of Angels Catholic Church during the public launch of The New Sanctuary Movement in Los Angeles, California, May 9, 2007. Calling for a moratorium on immigration raids and deportations that have separated hundreds of illegal immigrants from their U.S.-born children, the New Sanctuary Movement is opening churches and places of worship to harbor families who risk being torn apart.REUTERS/Danny Moloshok (UNITED STATES)

Immigration is the second most important issue of the next two years - after the War in Iraq. The reason for its importance is five-fold:

1. The cost of many American products and services will go up as "illegals" are prosecuted or given amnesty.

2. Domestic security can be breached by Al Quaeda and other groups.

3. Hardened criminals and gang members are crossing the borders along with eager workers seeking a better life.

4. The availability of meaningful work for minorities and other Americans at the lower end of the economic spectrum will shift dramatically based upon the direction taken.

5. A dynamic increase in the number of Hispanic voters could shift the balance of power in U.S. politics.

[Russell Kanning]

The Convening
WASHINGTON DC
January 29, 2007

On January 29, 2007 representatives from 18 cities, 12 religious traditions and 7 denominational and interdenominational organizations joined together to listen to the experience of immigrant families fighting deportation, and to strategize how to protect parents and children from being torn apart until there is just comprehensive immigration reform.

The New Sanctuary Movement was birthed that weekend with the goal of protecting immigrant families from unjust deportation, affirming and making visible these families as children of God and awakening the moral imagination of the country through prayer and witness.

Click Here for a list of representatives present at the convening:

Cities/States:
Denominational/Interdenominational National Leadership Present: Unitarian Universalist, United Church of Christ, Episcopal, United Methodist, Union of Reform Judaism, Interfaith Worker Justice.
Additional religious traditions: Roman Catholic, Lutheran, Presbyterian, American Friends Service Committee, Evangelical Christian, Muslim, Sikh

CONSENSUS

Guiding principles or values:
Faith platform: focus on faith-based moral principles
Moving immigrants from victim to witness
Diversity
Ensuring the dignity of those we serve and those who oppose us
Open public witness being willing to take the consequences of our actions

Goals:
To protect immigrant workers and families from unjust deportation
To change the public debate
To awaken the moral imagination of the country
To make visible immigrant workers and families as children of God

We are united in opposing the current series of raids and ensuing deportations, and we agree to call for an end to these practices as they separate children from their families until our broken immigration system is fixed.

http://www.newsanctuarymovement.org

[Daniel]

The immigration thing is the only thing that's really keeping me from being a Free State Project early mover.  There are other hindrances, but I think I have the courage to get past those, and from what I've heard on Free Talk Live, the activists in New Hampshire will help me get past them too.

But the immigration thing really scares me.  The country I'm in right now could continue at its current pace toward tyranny for the rest of my life and I don't think it would ever reach the level at which the US currently treats its illegal aliens, and paying them off with the 'immigration system' is pretty much impossible.  Not because I'm not willing to go through it and just pay them off, but because there simply is no provision for me to get in unless I'm rich or government educated.

Also, I'm concerned about what happens if I'm offered a job, and their forms involve putting down a social security number.  I also don't know what to do about banking.. can foreigners open bank accounts in the US without the bank getting in trouble?  Would I have to fake a social security number there too?

[Daniel]

I also don't have a passport.  Unlike citizenship or a green card, getting a passport shouldn't be very hard.
I'd prefer not to bow down to the state to get one, but sneaking into new Hampshire by running through a forest sounds even less appealing.

[J’raxis 270145]

If you're going to come here as an "illegal" immigrant, you're probably going to have to unplug yourself from the Matrix—no bank account, no above-the-table job, not renting from an agency or a landlord who wants documentation, &c.. I wouldn't really call that a bad thing.

There are already thousands, if not millions, of "illegal" immigrants in the country successfully living like this.

[Russell Kanning]

I agree with Jeremy.

You would not be able to fill out paperwork at jobs that require it. But you can live here.