Intervention if that's even the right word for family member headed for trouble

[Raineyrocks]

I know that people have to learn some things for themselves however if a family member is on some really bad drugs what in the world can you do before they kill themselves?

I definitely don't want cops involved!   Some people in my family have said to me that a couple nights in jail would straighten this person out, I totally disagree.  1.  I can't stand most cops and am not going to put this person "in the system".  If they get caught themselves, that's another story but it's not going to be because of me.    2.  If this person ends up in jail because they got caught, I know it wouldn't help.  It would bolster the "I'm big and bad" delusion they have of themselves right now.

I feel so damn helpless, what I say doesn't matter, this person has come right out and told me if you lecture me I won't talk to you anymore because I like what I'm doing.   I am tempted to say, fine, screw you, don't talk to me anymore but I really wouldn't be able to live with that, that's just my anger and frustration making me feel like saying that.

For those of you who know me well enough you probably have a good idea of who this is about but please don't bring up specifics in case they could get in trouble somehow because of this being on a public forum.  Thanks! 

[Moebius Tripp]

Unfortunately, if the person doesn't want help, anything you do will only build resentment in them for you.  If they want help, there are plenty of recovery programs out there.  Rational recovery (non-theists), standard 12-step programs of every ilk, and (i forget the name of the org) a Christian-oriented 12-step like group come to mind immediately.  Interventions work in some cases, though it's my belief that if a person doesn't want help, it won't hold.

Personally, I don't care what anyone puts in their own body, I care how they treat others.  Is this person endangering others?  Thieving, robbing, murdering, raping?  treating you with disrespect?  Maybe if enough people disconnect, a change of heart will occur.  If not a danger to others, and s/he treats you with respect, I'd recommend just being a friend, and keep the metaphorical door open.

I know it's difficult to watch someone you love do harm to themselves.  There are no easy answers.

[ancapagency]

I am not a fan of 12 step programs--evidence demonstrates that they have no higher a success rate than doing nothing.

But, while sometimes an early intervention does some good, I think that is rare.  Generally, a person has to "crash" and hit "rock bottom" before they will change in such situations.  And often, the only thing you can do for such an individual is to cut them off.

Something along the lines of "I hate what you're doing to yourself, and I can't watch you do it anymore--it hurts me too much.  Therefore, unless and until you get your feces consolidated, I don't want to see or hear from you anymore.  But if you ever do get your act together, come back and we'll pick up the pieces together."

It's painful, but sometimes it's the best that you can do--for you and them.

[Moebius Tripp]

I am not a fan of 12 step programs--evidence demonstrates that they have no higher a success rate than doing nothing.

I believe that has something to do with court-mandated attendance (government sanctioned churches?).  Success rates would be difficult to determine, though, as they are supposedly "anonymous".

But, while sometimes an early intervention does some good, I think that is rare.  Generally, a person has to "crash" and hit "rock bottom" before they will change in such situations.  And often, the only thing you can do for such an individual is to cut them off.

Something along the lines of "I hate what you're doing to yourself, and I can't watch you do it anymore--it hurts me too much.  Therefore, unless and until you get your feces consolidated, I don't want to see or hear from you anymore.  But if you ever do get your act together, come back and we'll pick up the pieces together."

It's painful, but sometimes it's the best that you can do--for you and them.

That's hard to do, depending on the relationship.

[AntonLee]

evidence shows that you're right. . . . but they DO work for some people, and they're everywhere.  I suggest you find what makes you comfortable to help the person with their problem.  The issue I have with interventions, is that they're always confrontational between family and the person who has a problem.  Even if the first words out of the Interventonal Guide's mouth is "this is not meant to be confrontational"  he is lying, it is meant to be exactly that way.

I've been through an intervention with my whole family, my friends, everything.  It was not good.  I agreed long enough to get hugs and leave the building. . .then I returned to my favorite liquor store and grabbed myself another rack and a bottle of Sambuca.  I had a really big problem, and I wasn't ready to quit yet.  Forcing someone to figure it out SOMETIMES helps. . . in a lot of situations it really just pushes back the relapse.  I've found that if a person isn't ready on their own, nothing you can do will get them to stop.  Threatening, promising gifts for good behavior, getting them to follow some arbitrary set of rules like the 12 steps. . . . none of it works until that person realizes that his or her problem is too bad for them to control.  Sometimes interventions go very badly because the person hasn't even gotten to the point of realizing that it's a problem.  How are you supposed to tell a person making mad loot and having sex with a different person every night that things are bad?  Even if things ARE bad, to a normal human being, they might not be to a drunkard.

I was homeless, living in my car for a while.  I had a job and a credit card, so I always had the one commodity I needed, booze.  My parents let me live in my grandfather's house.  Life was good, I drank all day and went to work at night. . .at a liquor store.  I was enabled into having more than I would if I were truly on my own.  Then came the intervention.  I got my hugs, then I got my booze, and then I got worse, because now I knew those people didn't approve of the only activity I liked to do.  I would skip family gettogethers that I used to enjoy going to, I'd stop going to nursing school because they didn't like the booze on my breath (go figure lol)

What did it for me, and what might do it for some other soul, is that someone told me to my face that I was a weak man.  For some reason, that stopped me in my tracks.  I remember my friend Luke told me "you are pathetic, you're a weak man and you'll most assuredly die soon, so I'm saying goodbye"

Pride, one of the seven deadly sins, it kicked in, I was 'weak'. . . no way.  Hmm. . . maybe I am weak, I can do anything.  That was the first step on a long journey to stopping my drinking.  The next drink I had I became mad at myself for taking.  A 'weak man' wouldn't take that drink.  I did.  It would lead to more drinking and more tears.  Eventually I drove headlong into a tree because I thought in a drunken stupor that it would be a good idea to kill myself because I couldn't take being such a pathetic loser anymore. 

That was the last night I drank.  Of course the police arrived, arrested me for DUI.  I tried to hang myself in the jail cell.  They told me I was 'faking it'   On the drive home with my mother, I tried to jump from the vehicle. . .succeeded. . . unfortunately it was less than 10 mph in the snow so I didn't really get hurt.  Some people will call me a coward, I'l take that just fine. . . anyone can call me whatever I wish. . . however what really stopped me from drinking that next day was thinking about how close I came to ending my own life.  How depressed I was in the hospital, then in detox.  I decided that AA was my option, because it was the only option I got.  In reality, I wanted to be strong, not weak.  I learned that everyone is different, and whatever it is that flips that switch in someone's head to get them to understand that they can't have something because they don't really want something. . . that will save a person.  Some people find AA and it works for them, and they continue to go to AA forever.  I continued for a year.  I got slapped with court fines, fees, classes, no license, no job.  But I slowly and surely got them back, and without the use of a drink.  I believe in my heart of hearts that the intervention only furthered along my drinking days. . . it gave me a reason to keep drinking, because everyone else wanted me to stop.  I know it sounds retarded. . . but at the time it was completely clear thinking.  Hence, the incidiousness of a drinking problem (I refuse but sometimes slip into calling it a disease anymore).   In case anyone really cares, it's been 6 years. 

Quitting smoking cigarettes, the same deal.  I sat here and wondered why I was so weak that I couldn't NOT light up this stupid stick of nicotine and tobacco.  Time got under my belt, and now I have 9 months.  I tried to quit a hundred times, but I had to do what it was that worked. . . and it has so far.

My advice would be to let this person know that it pains you to see them in that condition.  That they are not welcome in that condition in your presence anymore.   You can tell them that they're 'better than that' or that 'they're weak and need to stop'  and you can tell them that WHEN they decide to end their own life, that they give the courtesy of a phone call or a visit before they do it.  It might be extremely hard, but they'll see that as it is, they're under a  spell. . . and they must take control of that back.

There are thousands of ways that do work,  I suggest finding alternatives to AA as well as using AA literature to find something you can tailor for your own situation.  If you read something that sounds like what they're going through. . .jot it down, find out how it turned out.   Mostly, doing things that stop the enabling of them are key.  If  someone pays for their cell phone. . . end that service.  If someone gives them a roof, kick them out.  Drugs are much harder to buy when you have to pay rent, cell phone, car payments.  Paying any of these ONLY gives them a few more bucks to spend on their activities.

Wow I rambled, kind of like I was at an AA meeting.  Hope something in all this mess helps you.

[Moebius Tripp]

Wow I rambled, kind of like I was at an AA meeting.  Hope something in all this mess helps you.

Welcome to Archists Anonymous.  Thanks for sharing your courage.   

[AntonLee]

Hi, I'm Anton and I'm sick of all government hehe 

[ancapagency]

Kudos to Anton--he's got the other side of the picture from what I suggested. 

I think 12 step programs work if the individual has decided they want to quit--and if they've made that decision, then pretty much anything will work--thus it's not the program, but the individual decision to take control.

One of the things I don't like about the 12-step programs is how so many of them say "Admit you are powerless to control your life."  Bullshit.

[lastlady]

Wow Anton thanks for sharing your story.

I agree that you can't really help someone who doesn't want it and you can't force someone to stop doing what they want to do. I think letting this person know you love them and will be there for them when they are ready to get help is a good start. I did drugs when I was young, very young, so I am trying to think back to that time, but I was never really a full on addict and I just stopped one day. I think talking to them about the fact that they don't feel good and when they are tired of feeling like shit, if that day comes, there IS a way out. 

Then you have to let go and let god, or however you want to put it, you have to allow for this person to come to their own "end of the road" and in the mean time try to find some inner peace about the situation.

[AntonLee]

Kudos to Anton--he's got the other side of the picture from what I suggested. 

I think 12 step programs work if the individual has decided they want to quit--and if they've made that decision, then pretty much anything will work--thus it's not the program, but the individual decision to take control.

One of the things I don't like about the 12-step programs is how so many of them say "Admit you are powerless to control your life."  Bullshit.

absolutely. . .the only thing admitting your powerless provides in my humble opinion is that you don't have to blame yourself when you relapse. . ."geez ya know it must have been what god wanted, but now I got to get sober again sometime, right after I finish this drink, and that one,  and that shot of heroin and these pills."   

they usually say the motto "don't drink go to meetings ask for help" and I think that's very helpful advice actually.  The meeting part is the only thing you can do without.  If you don't drink/use, or are really really yearning to drink/use. . . then ask someone to just talk to you about why you don't want to drink.  Everyone knows why they have a problem, but as humans we can selectively forget when we really want something.  It's nice to hear it from an outside source.

Having family and friends who use/drink to excess is such a hard thing to deal with, and AA DOES work for a lot of people, but for some the only time they feel they can drink is on a day they don't go to a meeting (so they go everyday).  . .to me that's a bandaid for a machete wound.

[David]

Kudos to Anton--he's got the other side of the picture from what I suggested. 

I think 12 step programs work if the individual has decided they want to quit--and if they've made that decision, then pretty much anything will work--thus it's not the program, but the individual decision to take control.

One of the things I don't like about the 12-step programs is how so many of them say "Admit you are powerless to control your life."  Bullshit.

That is the pride part.  My father was an alcoholic, and he had to yield to the realitiy that he had no control over his ability to ration his drinking, he eventually realized that he had to quit, or continue drinking, that there was no middle ground. 

[Jim Johnson]

The only real way to help this person is find the cause for their need for escape and/or self destruction.

The only thing a 12 step program does is transfer the person's dependency from the drug to the program.  If the root of the problem is not cured the dependence will get worse.

Interventions can help if the root of the problem is identified and dealt with. 
Interventions can also harm if the root of the problem is actually the group that is doing the intervention.
I would also suggest that a therapist be on scene during the intervention.

[Raineyrocks]

Thank you every single one of you very much for caring to think about it, sharing your views, experiences and advice. 

I have a lot to think about, that's for sure but for now before this tension breaks my neck, I'm going to give my brain/heart a break and go make some goofy remarks on the board somewhere!